Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Hey, Molly Hunger here, it's a holiday again. So even
Speaker 2: though it's only been a few weeks since the last
Speaker 2: time I said it was a little awkward to be
Speaker 2: scrounging around for a rerun in a back catalog of
Speaker 2: episodes that's only a few months deep. There I am again.
Speaker 2: What can you do? It's not my fault. We pack
Speaker 2: all our big holidays in so close together at the
Speaker 2: end of the year, so there's no new Weird Little
Speaker 2: Guy this week. This is an episode you may have
Speaker 2: already listened to in the relatively recent past. The episode
Speaker 2: I chose for this holiday rerun isn't exactly festive. It
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with Christmas at all, and to
Speaker 2: be honest, it's probably not great holiday listening. It's really depressing.
Speaker 2: But I picked it for a reason. Earlier this month,
Speaker 2: there was a school shooting in Wisconsin. There are a
Speaker 2: lot of school shootings in America, more than two hundred
Speaker 2: of them in twenty twenty four alone, according to data
Speaker 2: from the gun violence prevention group every Town for Gun Safety.
Speaker 2: And as I'm writing this, just a few days after
Speaker 2: it happened and a week before you'll hear it, there's
Speaker 2: a lot we still don't know about the shooting at
Speaker 2: the Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin. A teacher
Speaker 2: and a fourteen year old student were killed. Five more
Speaker 2: students and one teacher were injured. The shooter, a fifteen
Speaker 2: year old girl, took her own life a few minutes later.
Speaker 2: Maybe this will have changed by next week, but today
Speaker 2: we don't know for certain if the manifesto being circulated
Speaker 2: online is authentic. Normally I wouldn't comment at all on
Speaker 2: a document of unknown origin, but a number of listeners
Speaker 2: have reached out to ask about a particular line, and
Speaker 2: regardless of whether this turns out to have been authored
Speaker 2: by the shooter herself, I was startled to see a
Speaker 2: familiar name, Arda kosukietin the document refers to him as
Speaker 2: the Ultimate Saint. It's chillingly specific language about a relatively
Speaker 2: obscure figure one I talk a little bit about in
Speaker 2: the episode You're about to hear. In August of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four, he stabbed several people outside of a mosque
Speaker 2: in Turkey. In his manifesto, he states quite clearly that
Speaker 2: he was motivated to carry out this attack by a
Speaker 2: group called the Terogram collective the subject of this episode,
Speaker 2: his name is almost entirely unknown outside of that very
Speaker 2: small circle of online mass murder enthusiasts. I revisited a
Speaker 2: thread today about the attack that was posted on Turkish
Speaker 2: social media back when had happened just weeks after the incident.
Speaker 2: One poster lamented that in less than a month it
Speaker 2: was forgotten, but this week after the shooting in Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: that threat is active again, with Turkish posters writing even
Speaker 2: in Turkey he was forgotten and unknown overnight and asking
Speaker 2: how a child in Wisconsin would even come to know
Speaker 2: his name, let alone idolize him. Another user wrote, I
Speaker 2: learned that a teenage school shooter in America took as
Speaker 2: an example someone we make fun of in Turkey whose
Speaker 2: name we don't even know, who attacks elderly people in
Speaker 2: a mosque. This person we call a loser in Turkey
Speaker 2: has become someone a teenager in America admires. The authenticity
Speaker 2: of this alleged manifesto is still uncertain, but if it
Speaker 2: is truly the work of a suicidal teenage girl who
Speaker 2: took two lives before ending her own, describing arda Kosukiya
Speaker 2: team as a saint, sets off alarm bells. Two of
Speaker 2: the people behind the Terogram Collective may be behind bars now,
Speaker 2: but their propaganda can still kill. So with that in mind,
Speaker 2: here's an episode I recorded back in September. I'll be
Speaker 2: back next year with more weird little guys. It was
Speaker 2: a little after seven pm on a warm Wednesday evening
Speaker 2: in October of twenty twenty two. Urai Van Koulik and
Speaker 2: Matushorvath were sitting outside of Teplaren, a gay bar and
Speaker 2: brought us lavas city center. Matusche was studying Chinese at
Speaker 2: a nearby university. You or I was a drag performer
Speaker 2: whose day job was designing the displays at a clothing store.
Speaker 2: They were enjoying the evening outside of one of the
Speaker 2: city's few dedicated queer spaces, and then they were dead.
Speaker 2: They were shot by a teenager who left behind a
Speaker 2: sixty five page neo Nazi manifesto before shooting himself in
Speaker 2: a nearby park. August twelfth, twenty twenty four, was a
Speaker 2: sunny afternoon in the Turkish city of his Kishiher. A
Speaker 2: teenager wearing a skull mask and a bulletproof vest walked
Speaker 2: into the tea garden outside of a mosque and stabbed
Speaker 2: five men before being tackled to the ground. He too
Speaker 2: left a manifesto glorifying mass murder. In July of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four, a teenager in New Jersey who'd been planning
Speaker 2: to destroy power substations in New Brunswick was arrested at
Speaker 2: the Newer airport before he'd fly to Ukraine to join
Speaker 2: the Russian Volunteer Corps, where he hoped to learn the
Speaker 2: skills he'd need to carry out acts of terror here
Speaker 2: at home. These three teenagers never met, but they had
Speaker 2: something in common. A murderer in Slovakia, an attempted murderer
Speaker 2: in Turkey. They were alone when they walked the familiar
Speaker 2: streets of their town, stalking their victims. They were alone
Speaker 2: when they shock, They were alone when they stabbed. They
Speaker 2: hunted human prey as lone wolves. But there are no
Speaker 2: lone wolves, not really. The wolf Pack is online now,
Speaker 2: baying for more blood.
Speaker 3: Between nineteen sixty eight twenty one, one hundred and five
Speaker 3: white men and women of Action have taken it upon
Speaker 3: themselves to wage war against the system and our racial enemies.
Speaker 3: Our saints are the best of our brothers, and this
Speaker 3: is our legacy of white terror.
Speaker 2: All three of these young men were incited to take
Speaker 2: action by propaganda produced by the Terragram Collective, a one
Speaker 2: synonymous group of militant neo Nazi accelerationists on the messaging
Speaker 2: app Telegram. All three of them were radicalized by a
Speaker 2: thirty four year old dildo saleswoman from California, narrating the
Speaker 2: manifestos of their idols, the mass shooters who came before them.
Speaker 2: I'm Molly Conger and this is weird, little guys. Yurai
Speaker 2: Krachik died by suicide sometime overnight after he murdered two
Speaker 2: people outside of a gay bar and brought us lava
Speaker 2: on October twelfth, twenty twenty two. His body was found
Speaker 2: in a nearby public park early the next morning, but
Speaker 2: he didn't shoot himself right away. After fleeing the scene,
Speaker 2: he got online. That was where he was most at home,
Speaker 2: after all, that was where he became the man he
Speaker 2: was in the moment he fired those shots. A few
Speaker 2: hours before the attack, he tweeted out links to his manifesto.
Speaker 2: After fleeing the scene of the shooting, he went home.
Speaker 2: He told his parents what he had done. They argued,
Speaker 2: but no one called the police. He left a handwritten
Speaker 2: suicide note, retrieved a second gun from his father's safe,
Speaker 2: and left the house again. His parents were the last
Speaker 2: ones to see him alive. The city was crawling with
Speaker 2: police that night. They were on high alert for the shooter,
Speaker 2: worried he would act again, but even now that he
Speaker 2: was armed with a fresh weapon, he didn't seek out
Speaker 2: more targets. Krazik walked to a local park and checked
Speaker 2: four chan on his phone. People were talking about him
Speaker 2: about his attack. He wanted to see what they were saying.
Speaker 2: Four Chan users quickly connected the shooting to his Twitter account.
Speaker 2: As he'd walked home after the attack, he tweeted hashtag
Speaker 2: brought a Slava feeling no regrets? Isn't that funny? On
Speaker 2: four Chan, they were already discussing the manifesto he'd tweeted out.
Speaker 2: One poster asked why would a Slovakian write his manifesto
Speaker 2: in English? And this was the first post the shooter
Speaker 2: replied to He wrote, because I felt like it. If
Speaker 2: you're familiar with four chan, first of all, i'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but if you've spent any time on there, you know
Speaker 2: it's not a friendly place, and not just unfriendly to outside.
Speaker 2: Even people who share similar ideologies are at each other's throats,
Speaker 2: hurling insults, and engaging in an eternal competition to be
Speaker 2: the nastiest person with an Internet connection. Posters mocked the
Speaker 2: shooter for killing only two people and asked why he'd
Speaker 2: chosen such low value targets. Even as they celebrated the
Speaker 2: deaths of his victims. They bullied the shooter for not
Speaker 2: doing more, for not doing it better, for not doing
Speaker 2: it differently. They were Monday Morning quarterbacking murder Life is
Speaker 2: just a first person shooter game for the keyboard Warrior
Speaker 2: mass shooting enthusiast. To these comments, Krazil replied that he'd
Speaker 2: wanted to shoot the Slovakian Prime Minister at Ward Hager,
Speaker 2: writing wish I could have gone higher, but whatever wanted
Speaker 2: to bag the Prime Minister, but I didn't get lucky
Speaker 2: with his car arriving later. News reports do in fact
Speaker 2: confirm that he was seen that evening on security camera
Speaker 2: footage outside the Prime Minister's home an hour before the shooting.
Speaker 2: The same news report maps out his walk home after
Speaker 2: the shooting, a route that took him through a largely
Speaker 2: Jewish neighborhood. Rejik lamented on four Chan that night that
Speaker 2: he had wanted to shoot the Kabbad house too, but
Speaker 2: he'd run out of ammunition, writing wish I could pull
Speaker 2: off more got nearly no amm o bro. Posters on
Speaker 2: four Chan were skeptical that the man replying to them
Speaker 2: was truly the shooter himself, and demanded that he post
Speaker 2: some kind of proof. A little after eleven thirty p m.
Speaker 2: Four hours after fleeing the scene of the shooting, he did.
Speaker 2: It's dark wherever he was. You can't see anything in
Speaker 2: the background. The flash illuminates only the subject of the selfie.
Speaker 2: He's completely expressionless. There's no smile, no bravado, no fear
Speaker 2: even there's just nothing. He's looking straight at the camera,
Speaker 2: holding his phone with one hand and making a finger
Speaker 2: gun that points directly at the viewer with the other.
Speaker 2: Have a last selfie, he says. Most of his posts
Speaker 2: on the four Chan thread that night are in English,
Speaker 2: it is the lingua franca of the site, after all,
Speaker 2: but one user responds to this selfie in Slovak translated.
Speaker 2: The comment reads, what happened boy? Why don't you smile anymore?
Speaker 2: Reality set in? Did you fall for the meme stupid right.
Speaker 2: The shooter replied to that comment in Slovak, saying, speak
Speaker 2: for yourself. In attaching a second selfie, he's smiling this time,
Speaker 2: kind of. It's hard to say you feel any sorrow
Speaker 2: for a man who just murdered two people in cold
Speaker 2: blood and then logged onto four chan to take credit
Speaker 2: for it. And I don't, not really, not for this murderer,
Speaker 2: But he was just a boy once, a boy whose
Speaker 2: fake smile shows the still slightly rounded cheeks of a
Speaker 2: kid who won't live to see the last adolescent chaining
Speaker 2: to his face his forced smile, a smile that doesn't
Speaker 2: reach the eyes in that selfie taken in the dark,
Speaker 2: somewhere in the trees on the edge of town, will
Speaker 2: probably stay with me for a while. He engages with
Speaker 2: the four chan thread for nearly an hour, answering questions
Speaker 2: and repeatedly acquiescing to demands for proof that it's really him.
Speaker 2: He posts a picture of a handwritten note with the
Speaker 2: time and date, posts another selfie, this time with his
Speaker 2: shoe on top of his head. This is a common
Speaker 2: form of proof demanded on four Chan to determine if
Speaker 2: you are really interacting with someone who is who they
Speaker 2: say they are, and in real time. I guess the
Speaker 2: idea is that most people have a shoe nearby, but
Speaker 2: most people don't have old photos of themselves online with
Speaker 2: a shoe on their head. So if you can produce
Speaker 2: such a photo on request, you probably are the person
Speaker 2: in the photo and not just someone using photos of
Speaker 2: a stranger that you found online. Another user asked him
Speaker 2: to spell out the N word and leaves on the
Speaker 2: ground and post a picture of that. He says it
Speaker 2: would take too long to spell out the whole word
Speaker 2: and posts a blurry photo of leaves arranged in the
Speaker 2: shape of the letter N. Another user asks him what's
Speaker 2: going through your mind right now, and he says, sad
Speaker 2: for my family, happy with my own life. Nothing for
Speaker 2: the two f slurs soon a bit of lead. Another
Speaker 2: user asks if he plans to spend decades in prison
Speaker 2: or if he'll kill himself. He replies with two words
Speaker 2: and hero, which is memespeak for dying by suicide. His
Speaker 2: last four Chan post was shortly before midnight. Four Chen
Speaker 2: users are perpetually caught in between their desire for and
Speaker 2: celebration of acts like this and their frustration that this
Speaker 2: kind of thing makes them all look bad, you know,
Speaker 2: it makes them look like exactly what they are, the
Speaker 2: kind of people goading a teenage murderer into killing himself.
Speaker 2: One poster writes, you have made everyone on this board
Speaker 2: look like a terrorist? Is that what you wanted? Also
Speaker 2: repent hell is real? His reply his final post reads
Speaker 2: only not my problem. On Twitter, his final post was
Speaker 2: a little after midnight in Slovak, he wrote, see you
Speaker 2: on the other side. A Slovak language news report says
Speaker 2: that two days before the attack, he had called a
Speaker 2: mental health crisis hotline. He said, I have to die,
Speaker 2: but I am very afraid, and then he hung up.
Speaker 2: But in his final hours he didn't call back. He
Speaker 2: didn't call that hotline. He didn't turn himself in or
Speaker 2: seek help. He sought reassurance and support from the place
Speaker 2: least likely to provide it. He logged onto four Chan,
Speaker 2: hoping to see his acts hailed as heroic, but they
Speaker 2: just laughed at him. He was dead before terogram canonized him,
Speaker 2: placing him in the pantheon of terror. He worshiped. Authorities
Speaker 2: in Slovakia weren't able to ping his cell phone location
Speaker 2: until five am. The cell phone provider didn't have any
Speaker 2: employees working overnight. His body was found in the park
Speaker 2: around seven am. It's not clear exactly when he died,
Speaker 2: but if I had to put money on it, I'd
Speaker 2: guess he died in real life shortly after he logged off.
Speaker 2: He posted right up through the end, and that's all
Speaker 2: we really knew. In October of twenty twenty two, the
Speaker 2: manifesto was online for all to see. In the manifesto,
Speaker 2: he includes the Terogram Collective in his list of special
Speaker 2: thanks at the end, writing you know who you are.
Speaker 2: Thank you for your incredible writing and art, for your
Speaker 2: political texts, for your practical guides building the future of
Speaker 2: the White Revolution one publication at a time. In the
Speaker 2: section of the manifesto under the header recommended reading, he
Speaker 2: lists many of the usual suspects. He was inspired by
Speaker 2: the christ Church Mosque shooting and recommends that shooter's manifesto.
Speaker 2: He praises the terrorist's bible, William Luther Pierce's novel The
Speaker 2: Turner Diaries, and even recommends the prequel, an even sloppier
Speaker 2: novel called Hunter, But he also recommends two other lesser
Speaker 2: known publications. Two of the four publications authored by the
Speaker 2: Terrogram Collective. He lists these two Militant Accelerationism and the
Speaker 2: Hard Reset, last, writing, if the other books give a
Speaker 2: theoretical and fictional base for our resistance, these two provide
Speaker 2: the practical means for it. They also go into a
Speaker 2: deeper dive into some issues, concepts, and things. Anyone who
Speaker 2: seeks to fight Zog should know. These two may be
Speaker 2: harder to find than the other books I listed, but
Speaker 2: you can find them if you look in the right places.
Speaker 2: The link between the Broadus Lava Shooting and the Teogram
Speaker 2: Collective was never a secret. It was right there all along.
Speaker 2: He said it himself. He recommended their propaganda and thanked
Speaker 2: them in the acknowledgments. But when he was posting on
Speaker 2: Fortune that night, he lied about something earlier. In this
Speaker 2: Murderer's Q and a session, someone asked him, have you
Speaker 2: been talking to some other people over telegram, discord or signal?
Speaker 2: And he replies, made my own decision to do this.
Speaker 2: I had barely any dms with people on telegram or wherever.
Speaker 2: And he later followed up with their channel owners. Hence
Speaker 2: the Annan part. Don't know their names. They produced good content,
Speaker 2: though Craigich was trying to backtrack on his initial post
Speaker 2: that he'd exchanged direct messages with anyone in the lead
Speaker 2: up to the attack. The truth, as it turns out,
Speaker 2: is that he wasn't just reading the material produced by
Speaker 2: the teogram Collis, he was in active communication with its leaders.
Speaker 2: This teenage murderer in Slovakia hadn't just posted his manifesto
Speaker 2: online before the attack. He'd also sent it directly to
Speaker 2: someone immediately after. He wanted to be certain that his
Speaker 2: message got out, so he sent it to someone he
Speaker 2: knew would spread it, someone who had helped him craft it.
Speaker 2: He sent the manifesto to Matthew Allison, a man in
Speaker 2: his thirties living in Boise, Idaho, earlier this month. In
Speaker 2: September of twenty twenty four, Matthew Allison of Boise and
Speaker 2: Dallas Humber of Elk Grove, California, were arrested in charge
Speaker 2: in a fifteen count indictment with soliciting hate crimes, soliciting
Speaker 2: the murder of federal officials, interstate threats, distributing information relating
Speaker 2: to explosives, and conspiring to provide material support to terrorists.
Speaker 2: The pair are alleged to be the ringleaders of the
Speaker 2: Terragram Collective, that association of pseudonymous posters on Telegram that
Speaker 2: produce neo Nazi accelerationist propaganda, and now, according to the
Speaker 2: Department of Justice, the Teogram Collective can also be called
Speaker 2: a transnational terrorist group. According to the allegations in the indictment,
Speaker 2: Krajik was an active member of the group's chat for
Speaker 2: a year leading up to the shooting. And I guess
Speaker 2: I should back up a little bit and explain a
Speaker 2: little more about what's going on in these chats, as
Speaker 2: much as I would really rather not. There are plenty
Speaker 2: of Nazi chat rooms. There is no shortage of places
Speaker 2: online where a racial slur enthusiast can log on and
Speaker 2: share ideas with other guys who hate black people and
Speaker 2: Jewish people, and gay people and immigrants and women and whatever.
Speaker 2: Pick your flavor. It's out there in abundance. This is
Speaker 2: something much darker. These are accelerationists, people who believe their
Speaker 2: goals can only be achieved by driving society over the
Speaker 2: brink and into total collapse. They believe that acts of
Speaker 2: mass murder, terrorism, and destruction are the necessary course of
Speaker 2: action to create the chaos required to allow a new
Speaker 2: world to be born, a world built by and four
Speaker 2: white men alone, and they aren't just talking about it.
Speaker 2: The Terogram Collective has produced a series of what would
Speaker 2: you call them, manuals, manifestos, zines, terrorism handbooks. They've put
Speaker 2: out four written publications in one short documentary, all directed
Speaker 2: at providing both inspiration and explicit instruction on how their
Speaker 2: followers can commit acts of unspeakable violence. In the online spaces,
Speaker 2: past acts are celebrated. One of the core elements of
Speaker 2: the group's shared language is this pantheon of saints. It's
Speaker 2: not the saints you're thinking of. This is a gruesome hagiography.
Speaker 2: They've canonized mass shooters. They celebrate the Saint Day of
Speaker 2: each shooter on the day of their atrocity. Robert Bowers, Unders,
Speaker 2: Bravic Dylan Rue, Brenton Terran, Patrick Crusius, Anton London Peterson,
Speaker 2: murderers from infamous to obscure, murderers from all over the world.
Speaker 2: The criteria for sainthood are fivefold, race, motive, intent, score,
Speaker 2: and worldview. The prospective saint must, of course, be white.
Speaker 2: There is occasionally some debate in the Nazi community about
Speaker 2: whether they should offer their begrudging respect for non white
Speaker 2: mass murderers who nevertheless kill large numbers of people they
Speaker 2: deem worthy targets, but the answer is generally no. So
Speaker 2: while they would celebrate something like the Pulse night club shooting,
Speaker 2: which killed nearly fifty people, most of whom were both
Speaker 2: Latino and members of the queer community, that perpetrator cannot
Speaker 2: be celebrated as a saint because he fails the first test.
Speaker 2: He isn't white. Intent, motive, and worldview all feel like
Speaker 2: they kind of describe the same thing. So I'm not
Speaker 2: sure why there are five criteria when they probably could
Speaker 2: have condensed it down to three. But the attack must
Speaker 2: be deliberate, that's intent, committed in the spirit of our struggle,
Speaker 2: that's motive, and be motivated by a white nationalist ideology.
Speaker 2: Though they are willing to make some exceptions. There's a
Speaker 2: little wiggle room here for attacks that are right wing
Speaker 2: but not explicitly neo Nazi. And score means exactly what
Speaker 2: you probably think it means. They're keeping score, they're counting bodies.
Speaker 2: Sometimes if you log into the worst kind of place
Speaker 2: during an active attack or in the immediate aftermath of one,
Speaker 2: you'll see eager speculation that someone could be getting a
Speaker 2: new high score like it's some kind of video game,
Speaker 2: and there are no exceptions to this requirement. You cannot
Speaker 2: become a terrogram saint with a score of zero. Someone
Speaker 2: has to die. These ideas didn't originate with Matthew Allison
Speaker 2: and Dallas Humber. Both of them have been members of
Speaker 2: this online community for years since at least twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, after the arrest of one of
Speaker 2: the community's most prolific posters, they became the group's leaders.
Speaker 2: A user who posted as Slovak Bro, Pavel Benedikue, was
Speaker 2: arrested in Slovakia in early twenty twenty two and eventually
Speaker 2: sentenced to six years in prison for his support of terrorism,
Speaker 2: and Slovak Bro isn't the the only Tarogram author to
Speaker 2: land himself in prison. Brandon Russell, the Adam Woffin founder,
Speaker 2: currently awaiting trial on charges of conspiracy to blow up
Speaker 2: the power grid in Baltimore, was in close communication with
Speaker 2: members of the group before and after his arrest. He
Speaker 2: appears to have participated in the creation of at least
Speaker 2: some of the group's work. Two men in Canada were
Speaker 2: arrested last fall with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police press
Speaker 2: release alleging that they too had participated in the creation
Speaker 2: of Tarogram manifestos. Their cases are ongoing and subject to
Speaker 2: a publication ban in Canada, so the extent of their
Speaker 2: involvement and the possibility that revelations in those cases had
Speaker 2: some bearing on the investigation here in the US is
Speaker 2: unknown right now, as the leaders of the Tarogram collective,
Speaker 2: Dallas Humber and Matthew Allison, are alleged to have directly
Speaker 2: contributed to acts of terrorism all over the world. Their
Speaker 2: publications provided detailed instructions on how to make bombs, how
Speaker 2: to make napalm at home with materials you can by
Speaker 2: at the hardware store, the most efficient way to destroy
Speaker 2: an electrical substation with rifle fire, and how to identify
Speaker 2: the most valuable targets in your area, targets that could
Speaker 2: be infrastructure or human. They maintained a document called the List,
Speaker 2: a list of high value assassination targets. For each name
Speaker 2: on the list, there was a little graphic like a
Speaker 2: trading card. The target's name, home address, and photograph were
Speaker 2: always featured, along with the reasons why they were considered
Speaker 2: an enemy of the cause. Those reasons, as you might expect,
Speaker 2: tended to be related to the target's identity. They're Jewish,
Speaker 2: they're gay, they're an immigrant, or some other kind of
Speaker 2: undesirable in their eyes. The names on the list include senators, judges,
Speaker 2: a former federal prosecutor, state and local government officials, and
Speaker 2: nonprofit employees. In their chats, they posted the list off
Speaker 2: and would sometimes post individual members of the list alongside
Speaker 2: encouragement to take action. In one exchange described in the indictment,
Speaker 2: a member of the group chat asked if there were
Speaker 2: any members of the list located in his area. The
Speaker 2: administrator of the group responded with a trading card image
Speaker 2: for a target in a city in the posters area.
Speaker 2: The user replied, we already have this one, and asked
Speaker 2: the channel administrator to tag him if any new names
Speaker 2: were added to the list in his area. A user
Speaker 2: the government alleges is Dallas. Humber replied, we'll do. A
Speaker 2: week later, she tagged that same user with a new
Speaker 2: name in the same city. He replied, very good, I'll
Speaker 2: check in with my guys now. And it wasn't just
Speaker 2: members of the list who were in danger. Humber and
Speaker 2: Allison would routinely remind members of the group of the
Speaker 2: kinds of targets they should be seeking out. In June
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, Humber posted numerous exhortations to followers
Speaker 2: that they should be targeting Gay Pride Month events, writing
Speaker 2: in one post.
Speaker 1: Mass shootings, arson, bombings, vehicle tax the list goes on
Speaker 1: and the opportunities provided to you this month will be plentiful.
Speaker 1: Don't let them go to waste. What's more impactful boycotting
Speaker 1: target or getting dozens of targets in your sights and
Speaker 1: taking them out permanently. Actions speak louder than words. Direct
Speaker 1: lethal action speaks louder than any boycott This Pride month,
Speaker 1: give us what we truly need, a new saint to
Speaker 1: be proud of and a glorious new attack to celebrate.
Speaker 1: You've got the means an opportunity. All you need is
Speaker 1: the will. Don't breathe a word of what you're planning
Speaker 1: to anyone, and make it count.
Speaker 2: Make it count. That's a frequent refrain Make it Count
Speaker 2: as the title of one of the group's terrorism manuals.
Speaker 2: It's also the final line of the Broadesslava Shooters manifesto.
Speaker 2: The line itself comes from Siege the collected Essays of
Speaker 2: James Mason. If the Turner Diaries is their Bible, Siege
Speaker 2: is perhaps a missile or a brevery. Maybe the analogy
Speaker 2: doesn't hold. I don't know, but Mason is the godfather
Speaker 2: of modern fascist terrorism. Read Siege was such a constant
Speaker 2: directive in so many Nazi chats for so long that
Speaker 2: it's more of a meme than an actual instruction. At
Speaker 2: this point. Mason wrote the Siege Newsletter throughout the early
Speaker 2: to mid eighties. The essays were collected and published in
Speaker 2: book form in the early nineties, but the text languished
Speaker 2: in relative obscurity until it was rediscovered by users of
Speaker 2: the Nazi forum Iron March in the early twenty tens.
Speaker 2: It's no coincidence that Adam Wafflin was born on the
Speaker 2: pages of that forum, in the bubbling ideological soup, where
Speaker 2: young men were exchanging their favorite passages of Siege. It's
Speaker 2: a messy, sprawling six or so pages, depending on the
Speaker 2: addition you've bootlegged from some terrorism chat room, and it's
Speaker 2: mostly useless ramblings. There's a lot of repetitive content. It
Speaker 2: wasn't written to be a book. To be fair, the
Speaker 2: line Make It Count comes from the end of the
Speaker 2: August nineteen eighty two newsletter in a missive titled Biting
Speaker 2: the Bullet. Like much of the Device in Siege, this
Speaker 2: essay is about taking action, about choosing the time, the target,
Speaker 2: and the circumstances of your attack on the system, because
Speaker 2: you may only get one chance to strike. The essay concludes,
Speaker 2: quote in revolution, the price of failure generally is death.
Speaker 2: So whatever you do, and whatever course you choose, don't
Speaker 2: sell yourself cheap. Make it count. Make it Count. The
Speaker 2: Collective's Terrorism Guide by the same name and The Hard
Speaker 2: Reset both contain diagrams of electrical transformers and instruction for
Speaker 2: damaging them, released around the same time, both in June
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two. Make It Count as a light
Speaker 2: fourteen pages, it's more propaganda than manual. The page titled
Speaker 2: Blackout is dominated by a large graphic of a rifle
Speaker 2: with a scope and big neon text that reads in
Speaker 2: all caps, locate substation, range, find shoot transformers, flee undetected,
Speaker 2: which I guess are technically instructions, they're just not very
Speaker 2: good ones. The Hard Reset, on the other hand, is
Speaker 2: a nearly three hundred page compilation of essays, graphics manuals,
Speaker 2: and just a nightmarish collection of fonts and colors that
Speaker 2: would make a graphic designer weep Around. Halfway through, there's
Speaker 2: a section containing incredibly detailed instructions, complete with diagrams, for
Speaker 2: sabotaging all manner of infrastructure. How to derail a train,
Speaker 2: how to damage a cell phone tower, things to consider
Speaker 2: when bombing a truck depot, ways you might contaminate a
Speaker 2: municipal water treatment plant, And of course, four pages of
Speaker 2: advice on sabotaging the power grid. Alongside mass shootings, attacks
Speaker 2: on the power grid are the group's favorite fixation. We
Speaker 2: talked a little bit about the concept in another episode
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, Lights Out about the Nazi paramilitary
Speaker 2: marines who hoped to knock out power in the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 2: They thought it would provide cover for a planned series
Speaker 2: of assassinations. Those guys never got a chance to read
Speaker 2: the Terragram collective manuals on the subject, they were arrested
Speaker 2: before they were written. But as I said in that episode,
Speaker 2: this idea has been popular in right wing circles for decades.
Speaker 2: Take out the power, chaos ensues something something Step three,
Speaker 2: then race war. The middle part never really gets fleshed out,
Speaker 2: but they all seem very convinced that something happens right
Speaker 2: after it gets dark that causes a race war. I'm
Speaker 2: not really sold on that logic, but they are bound
Speaker 2: and determined to put holes in a substation. Nevertheless, the
Speaker 2: indictment lists numerous occasions on which Dallas Humber encourages her
Speaker 2: followers to take the advice provided in the manuals and
Speaker 2: attack the grid. In December of twenty twenty two, after
Speaker 2: these still unsolved attacks on electrical infrastructure in Jones County,
Speaker 2: North Carolina on November eleventh, and Moore County on December third,
Speaker 2: Humber posted encouragement for anyone planning a similar grid attack,
Speaker 2: advising them not to let second thoughts or fear of
Speaker 2: failure or fear of getting caught demotivate them. Do not
Speaker 2: let this big mistake happen to you, she wrote in
Speaker 2: all caps, reminding them to have a plan, carry it out,
Speaker 2: and keep their mouths shut. A few days later, she.
Speaker 1: Wrote, maybe that person could be you, lining up your
Speaker 1: sights on these metal behemoths from the tree line, squeezing
Speaker 1: the trigger and retreating from the area with a shitting
Speaker 1: grin on your face, knowing the chaos you've just unleashed.
Speaker 2: And after a third, still unsolved attack was carried out
Speaker 2: just a month later in Randolph County, North Carolina, Humber
Speaker 2: posted again.
Speaker 1: Everyone, please take a moment to congratulate yourselves. It seems
Speaker 1: as though this avenue of attack, an incredibly effective one
Speaker 1: at that has really caught on. I like to think
Speaker 1: that all our hard work in detailing its effectiveness and
Speaker 1: showing our community how easy it is not only to do,
Speaker 1: but to get away with, has helped encourage this death
Speaker 1: to the grid, death the system.
Speaker 2: So the Terogram Collective isn't exactly taking credit for the
Speaker 2: grid attacks in North Carolina, but they aren't not taking
Speaker 2: credit for it either. She does credit herself and the
Speaker 2: group with popularizing the idea. She speculates that perhaps the
Speaker 2: attacker or attackers had read her work, read her words,
Speaker 2: and listened to her voice and decided to act, But
Speaker 2: there's no claim made that she knows who did it,
Speaker 2: and maybe she doesn't. We don't actually know whether these
Speaker 2: attacks were committed by someone inspired by the Terrogram Collective
Speaker 2: at all, even if they were ideologically motivated. She didn't
Speaker 2: invent the idea, and a similar attack out in Washington
Speaker 2: State during the same time period was actually committed by
Speaker 2: a pair of would be thieves who thought they could
Speaker 2: get cash out of ATMs during a power outage. So
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't a terrorist at all, but if it was,
Speaker 2: it is entirely possible that an attacker inspired by her
Speaker 2: work was operating based off of a one directional relationship,
Speaker 2: that this person consumed the content and acted on it
Speaker 2: without ever actually having a conversation with the author. We
Speaker 2: didn't learn until much later, though, that this wasn't the
Speaker 2: case with the shooting in Broadislava, and we do you
Speaker 2: know that at least one would be grid attacker was
Speaker 2: definitely in that chat and definitely in communication with the
Speaker 2: Tterogram collective. Andrew Takestov was arrested in July of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four at the Newark Airport. He was on his
Speaker 2: way to Ukraine to join the Russian Volunteer Corps, a
Speaker 2: neo Nazi paramilitary group of Russian citizens inside Ukraine who
Speaker 2: opposed the Putin government. Takeistov had been a member of
Speaker 2: the Tarogram collective chat since at least January of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four. And in January of twenty twenty four, he
Speaker 2: made a new friend online. It isn't stated outright in
Speaker 2: his charging documents or in the cases against Humber and Allison,
Speaker 2: but it sounds like he made this friend in the
Speaker 2: Tarogram chat, and this friend turned out to be an
Speaker 2: undercover FBI agent around this same time. In January of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, Takestov asks in the Terogram chat for
Speaker 2: recommendations for quote documentaries about our guys made by our guys,
Speaker 2: and he asks if anyone has more content like White Terror,
Speaker 2: which is the twenty four minute documentary the Collective put
Speaker 2: out in October of twenty twenty two. The video is
Speaker 2: a compilation of descriptions of over one hundred white supremacist
Speaker 2: attacks carried out between nineteen sixty eight and twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: It is, in their words, their litany of the Saints.
Speaker 2: Humber narrates the video herself. She is the voice of Terogram,
Speaker 2: but she's not very skilled voice actor, and that's not
Speaker 2: just my opinion. The website Militant Wire, a publication that
Speaker 2: writes about political violence all over the world, wrote of
Speaker 2: her narration.
Speaker 4: It is both striking and seemingly incongruous to the material
Speaker 4: the way a young, average female voice devoid of ghoulish
Speaker 4: stylization or of discernible malice and hatred not only celebrates
Speaker 4: acts of terrorism while parroting well established neo Nazi tropes
Speaker 4: and slogans, but perhaps most of all, the unburden and
Speaker 4: rather natural way that this young woman uses the most
Speaker 4: cutting of racial slurs and homophobic pejoratives. It is one
Speaker 4: thing to see edgy young men describe mass murderer Dylan
Speaker 4: Rufe as Saint Rufe on a message board, for example,
Speaker 4: and quite another to hear a young woman say it
Speaker 4: aloud and without traceable irony.
Speaker 2: She sounds bored as she lists shootings, bombings, arsons and stabbings,
Speaker 2: just droning out this list of the dead. The video
Speaker 2: was published just days after the shooting had brought us Lava,
Speaker 2: but it had already been finalized before the attack, so
Speaker 2: he's not in it. The list of their murderer's heroes
Speaker 2: ends with the Buffalo Supermarket shooter from May of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two, but the video concludes with Humbers. There's deadpan
Speaker 2: reading of an ominous message. The list is always growing,
Speaker 2: and you could join it.
Speaker 3: And to the saints of tomorrow watching this today, know
Speaker 3: that when you succeed, you will be celebrated with reverence,
Speaker 3: and your sacrifice.
Speaker 2: Will not be in vain.
Speaker 3: Hail the Saints, and hail are glorious and bloody. Legacy
Speaker 3: of white hair.
Speaker 2: When Takeistav asked if they had any more content like
Speaker 2: that video, Humber replied with a file an audio recording
Speaker 2: of her reading the Jacksonville Dollar General Shooters Manifesto. The manifesto,
Speaker 2: entitled A White Boy Summer to Remember, had just been
Speaker 2: released that month by the Jacksonville Sheriff's Department. Humber quickly
Speaker 2: recorded the audiobook version for the Terogram Collective, as she
Speaker 2: had with many manifestos before it. Her audio recording of
Speaker 2: the Broados Lava Shooters Manifesto was released to the chat
Speaker 2: within a week of that attack, just as she'd promised
Speaker 2: Kragik it would be before he died a few months later.
Speaker 2: In April of twenty twenty four, Talkistov posted again thanking
Speaker 2: Humber for links to videos providing instructions on attacking energy facilities.
Speaker 2: One video in particular had instructions for using my lar
Speaker 2: balloons to damage power lines their conductive metal surface can
Speaker 2: start a fire when it comes into contact with electrical infrastructure.
Speaker 2: Takistanv was so pleased with this advice, it seems that
Speaker 2: he thought he might like to try it. Later that summer,
Speaker 2: he met up with his new friend from the chat room,
Speaker 2: though one he didn't know was an undercover FBI agent. Together,
Speaker 2: they drove around New Jersey looking at substations. Takistov proudly
Speaker 2: shared the instructions for how to carry out the attack,
Speaker 2: directing his friend to use mylar balloons to short circuit
Speaker 2: the transformer. He followed up by sending his friend a
Speaker 2: copy of the hard Reset, telling him quote, it's really
Speaker 2: the only thing you need. It has ideology, it has
Speaker 2: how to guides, It has ideas for funny things. It
Speaker 2: goes into how you should plan it. It really goes
Speaker 2: into the thought process. Takstov told the agent his new
Speaker 2: friend that his plan was to fly to Ukraine and
Speaker 2: volunteer with the Russian Volunteer Corps. He'd chosen that group
Speaker 2: in particular because, according to the indictment quote, the group
Speaker 2: was openly national socialist and more importantly, specialized in assassinations
Speaker 2: attacks on power grids and other infrastructure. Sabotage, so he
Speaker 2: hoped to go over there, get some training, do a
Speaker 2: little fighting, and then return home with new skills he
Speaker 2: could use here. He instructed his new friend not to
Speaker 2: be idle in his absence, that while Takistov was gone,
Speaker 2: he expected his new friend to carry out at least
Speaker 2: one attack, perhaps the attack on the substation they'd been discussing.
Speaker 2: He also recommended getting a rifle and a cheap burner phone.
Speaker 2: The burner phone wasn't for communication, though, it was to
Speaker 2: be used to determine if a cell tower had been
Speaker 2: sufficiently damaged by rifle rounds that it no longer transmitted
Speaker 2: a signal. So you take the phone out, you start
Speaker 2: shooting at the tower, and if the phone still has bars,
Speaker 2: keep shooting. In July, just a few days before he
Speaker 2: would board the plane to Ukraine, Takistov met up with
Speaker 2: his new friend one last time. This time they drove
Speaker 2: out to a warehouse full of trucking equipment. Takistov explained
Speaker 2: to the undercover agent how he should access the facility
Speaker 2: to damage equipment with a Molotov cocktail. He also suggested
Speaker 2: some strategies for derailing trains. He essentially talked through almost
Speaker 2: all of the infrastructure related attacks suggested by the Terogram
Speaker 2: Collective publication that he'd already shared with the agent, and
Speaker 2: then he tried to get on a plane. Takistov did
Speaker 2: not make his flight. On July tenth, he was arrested
Speaker 2: at the airport. He's not due back in court until October,
Speaker 2: but he is the attacker two listed in the indictment
Speaker 2: against Alice Humber and Matthew Allison. That indictment lists three
Speaker 2: individuals that the government is confident they can prove were
Speaker 2: incited to action directly by the Terogram Collective. Attacker one
Speaker 2: is the Broadislava shooter. Attacker three is the teenager who
Speaker 2: stabbed five men outside of a mosque in Turkey last month.
Speaker 2: He was taken into custody alive, and as far as
Speaker 2: reporting I can find, all of his victims are expected
Speaker 2: to survive. The teenager, identified by Turkish press only by
Speaker 2: his first name and last initial, arda K, was acknowledged
Speaker 2: by the Terogram Collective but not canonized as a saint.
Speaker 2: He failed, although his intent, ideology, and worldview are consistent
Speaker 2: with the kind of murderer they're looking for. The teenager
Speaker 2: failed to take any lives, and more importantly, he isn't white.
Speaker 2: After the attack, Dallas Humber wrote in the chat, he
Speaker 2: included the Tarogram books and other Saint manifestos in his file, Dump,
Speaker 2: gives shout outs to the other Saints in his manifesto
Speaker 2: and references several hard Reset passages. He was one hundred
Speaker 2: percent our guy, but he's not white, so I can't
Speaker 2: give him an honorary title. We can still celebrate his attack,
Speaker 2: though he did it for Tarogram. She followed up later
Speaker 2: on writing we can hail him anyway. We just can't
Speaker 2: add him to the pantheon. But yeah, it's a great
Speaker 2: development regardless. Inspiring more attacks is the goal, and anyone
Speaker 2: claiming to be an accelerationist should support them. It isn't
Speaker 2: specified in the court documents whether our Decae had ever
Speaker 2: directly participated in the Tarogram collective chats, but he certainly
Speaker 2: read their work. He wasn't just inspired by some shared ideology.
Speaker 2: He cites them directly in this manifesto. Manifesto, however, is
Speaker 2: written in Turkish, which you'd expect because there's something a
Speaker 2: little strange about the manifesto Urikrazik left behind. It's in English.
Speaker 2: That's not entirely extraordinary. He spoke English, though he'd never
Speaker 2: spent any time in an English speaking country. He probably
Speaker 2: would have learned it in school. He watched American television
Speaker 2: shows and movies. He had access to American music. He
Speaker 2: participated in online spaces where English is the primary language.
Speaker 2: But the manifesto is in perfect English. And I don't
Speaker 2: mean perfect English like from a textbook, something you could
Speaker 2: achieve through study. It's native English. It has idioms and
Speaker 2: terms of phrase and even mistakes that only a native
Speaker 2: English speaker would really use. And that's not my opinion.
Speaker 2: According to an analysis by forensic linguist Julia Kupper published
Speaker 2: by the Accelerationism Research Consortium, the manifesto was almost certainly
Speaker 2: written by a native English speaker who grew up in
Speaker 2: the United States, probably someone with a good education, and
Speaker 2: someone a bit older than Crachick, someone maybe in their forties.
Speaker 2: The obvious answer then, is, well, he plagiarized it, right.
Speaker 2: It's copy paste, and that's surprisingly common.
Speaker 4: A lot of.
Speaker 2: Manifestos lift large portions of their text from other similar documents.
Speaker 2: But Copper checked he hadn't. This isn't copy pasta this
Speaker 2: isn't someone else's manifesto. This was an original work, but
Speaker 2: Crachick couldn't have written it. Copper conducted a forensic linguistic
Speaker 2: analysis on the manifesto, the handwritten suicide note, several hundred
Speaker 2: tweets from his account, and the four Chan posts made
Speaker 2: the night of the shooting. She concluded that a second
Speaker 2: author was involved in both the manifesto and some of
Speaker 2: the tweets, but that the four Chan posts and the
Speaker 2: suicide note were written by him alone. According to covers analysis,
Speaker 2: there are some telltale signs of two writers at work.
Speaker 2: When Krajik posted a photo on four Chan that night
Speaker 2: to prove he was who he said he was, he
Speaker 2: showed a handwritten note with a date on it, and
Speaker 2: we know he wrote this himself, and in European fashion
Speaker 2: he wrote the date day month year, not month day
Speaker 2: year as Americans would do. The manifesto, though uses an
Speaker 2: American date format. In his tweets, there are style shifts
Speaker 2: that seem to indicate two people may have had access
Speaker 2: to the account. Changes in tone and vocabulary and the
Speaker 2: way that punctuation is used, shifting between the European style
Speaker 2: and the American style of where commas and periods go
Speaker 2: on either side of a quotation or parentheses. The American
Speaker 2: English style of formatting began appearing in the tweets in
Speaker 2: May of twenty twenty two, the month he claims he
Speaker 2: began working on the manifesto and the plan in Earnest
Speaker 2: Cupper's report was published in early twenty twenty three, just
Speaker 2: six months after the attack and more than a year
Speaker 2: before the extent of Crojick's involvement with the terrogram chat
Speaker 2: administrators came to light after their arrests. It raises some
Speaker 2: questions we may not get answers to. Perhaps the criminal
Speaker 2: proceedings against Alison and Humber will result in Twitter producing
Speaker 2: some records that could show more than one person logging
Speaker 2: into the account, but maybe not. There may be no
Speaker 2: satisfying conclusion to this mystery. But if an older, educated,
Speaker 2: native English speaking American author wrote most of that manifesto,
Speaker 2: it certainly confers some responsibility onto that author for the
Speaker 2: attack that accompanied it. The co author of the manifesto
Speaker 2: didn't pull the trigger, but they may as well have
Speaker 2: if Humber and Allison are being prosecuted for their contributions
Speaker 2: to this attack. In particular, whether or not they had
Speaker 2: fore knowledge. Whether or not they participated in the crafting
Speaker 2: of this manifesto would be a significant factor in the prosecution.
Speaker 2: But who are these people? Who is Matthew Allison? Who
Speaker 2: is Dallas Humber? How did they end up running a
Speaker 2: transnational terrorist organization that goads young men into committing acts
Speaker 2: of terrorism. Matthew Allison wasn't revealed as a Terrogram collective
Speaker 2: administrator until this indictment was unsealed. We didn't know his
Speaker 2: name until he was arrested, but Dallas Humber was unmasked
Speaker 2: a year and a half ago. Researchers at Left Coast
Speaker 2: Right Watch and independent investigative journalism outlet covering politics and
Speaker 2: extremism identified Humber in March of twenty twenty three. The
Speaker 2: story was confirmed and re reported by Huffington Post soon after.
Speaker 2: Dallas Humber was miss Gorehound, the voice of Terrogram. The
Speaker 2: story is a truly bizarre one. I'll link it in
Speaker 2: the show notes and I highly recommend checking out this
Speaker 2: story in particular and Left Coast Right Watch in general.
Speaker 2: They were able to locate the earliest days of Humber's
Speaker 2: journey to becoming the voice of White Terror when she
Speaker 2: was just thirteen, She was active on sites like deviant
Speaker 2: Art and live journal, where she described herself as a
Speaker 2: hopeless fangirl for serial killers. Their digital archaeology shows that
Speaker 2: Humber has been making fan art for murderers for over
Speaker 2: twenty years. She was describing herself as a National Socialist
Speaker 2: in her online journal as early as two thousand and four,
Speaker 2: when she was just fourteen. By twenty fourteen, she was
Speaker 2: using one of the monikers she carried through to the present,
Speaker 2: little Miss Gorehound. Quoting from lcrw's twenty twenty three write
Speaker 2: up on Humber quote, her earliest interest in gurro art
Speaker 2: had become a full blown gore fetish. In its purest form,
Speaker 2: gurro is meant to simultaneously evoke a sense of eroticism
Speaker 2: and grotesqueness. It's meant to make the viewer uncomfortable. At
Speaker 2: its worst, it can only be described as hen Tai snuff.
Speaker 2: Nearly all of her art from this period features abused women.
Speaker 2: LCRW has chosen not to share the images as they
Speaker 2: depict scenes of torture, dismemberment, and explicit sexual violence. For
Speaker 2: the most part, the only women that aren't being subjected
Speaker 2: to violence and brutality are perpetuating it against other women.
Speaker 2: The men, however, are portrayed as strong, powerful, and heroic,
Speaker 2: and by twenty nineteen, Humber had found her new online
Speaker 2: home terrogram. Her now nearly twenty year old hobby of
Speaker 2: creating gore art was right at home in an online
Speaker 2: community devoted to celebrating mass murder, and now she wasn't
Speaker 2: just drawing pictures of killers, she was drawing pictures for them.
Speaker 2: She posted photos on Telegram of her correspondence with convicted
Speaker 2: mass murderer Dylan Rufe. Several outlets have reported on these letters,
Speaker 2: and they do point out that they were unable to
Speaker 2: confirm with prison officials how often Humber was corresponding with Rufe,
Speaker 2: but the images she posted matched the handwriting and style
Speaker 2: of known samples of Roofe's letters. In one letter she posted,
Speaker 2: Rufe requests a drawing from her. He asks for quote
Speaker 2: a wizard with mean slash, unfriendly eyebrows, or a dragon
Speaker 2: or an unfriendly eyebrowed wizard writing a dragon. End quote.
Speaker 2: I hope that's the only time I ever have to
Speaker 2: quote Dylan Rufe. The Little Miss Gorehound account posted a
Speaker 2: photo of the finished drawing of the unfriendly looking wizard,
Speaker 2: with the caption finished Dylan's Wizard hashtag Saint Mail. She
Speaker 2: also claimed to have written cards to Brenton Tarrant, imprisoned
Speaker 2: in New Zealand for the murders of fifty one worshippers
Speaker 2: at mosques in christ Church, and to Anders Bravic, imprisoned
Speaker 2: in Norway for the murder of seventy seven people, most
Speaker 2: of whom were children. It's unclear what, if anything, Humber
Speaker 2: does for a day job these days, but LCRWS write
Speaker 2: up uncovered that for many years she made a living
Speaker 2: as a dildo saleswoman using the pseudonym techs Hunter. But
Speaker 2: after that article was published, nothing happened, nothing changed. We
Speaker 2: knew who she was, but nobody made a move to intervene,
Speaker 2: and she carried on as she always had. Shannon Foley
Speaker 2: Martinez told Huffington Post back in March of twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three that quote, it is an absolute given that terrogram
Speaker 2: will inspire more shootings if left unchecked. In the heartbreaking
Speaker 2: position of knowing exactly what she's talking about, Shannon was
Speaker 2: radicalized by a boyfriend as a teenager, but quickly left
Speaker 2: the movement and has since dedicated decades of her life
Speaker 2: to the ugly work of trying to keep other people's
Speaker 2: children from falling prey to the recruiters who target vulnerable teens.
Speaker 2: But the government waited and waited. They watched too. I'm
Speaker 2: sure we know they had undercover agents in the group.
Speaker 2: But they waited over a year. They waited until more
Speaker 2: attacks took place. They waited until an eighty seven year
Speaker 2: old man was stabbed outside of his mosque. They waited
Speaker 2: while more and more young men were fed heaping servings
Speaker 2: of rotten propaganda. They waited until September of twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: a few weeks after that stabbing in Turkey. In a
Speaker 2: piece published in Wire a few days after the indictment,
Speaker 2: investigative journalist Ali Winston offers an intriguing explanation for the timing.
Speaker 2: While most of the charges in the indictment could have
Speaker 2: been brought at any time, things like soliciting the murder
Speaker 2: of a federal official, disseminating information about explosives, threatening communications,
Speaker 2: and so on, they've been doing that for years. The
Speaker 2: final charge of this fifteen count indictment is a violation
Speaker 2: of Chapter eighteen, Section two three, three nine a conspiracy
Speaker 2: to provide material support to terrorists, and this is the
Speaker 2: most serious charge on the indictment. This is the one
Speaker 2: that could put them away forever. And this charge was
Speaker 2: only made possible by a decision earlier this year by
Speaker 2: the Government of the United Kingdom. In April of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four, the UK formally added the Terogram Collective to
Speaker 2: its list of proscribed terrorist entities. A Home Office announcement
Speaker 2: in April.
Speaker 5: Reads the Terregram Collective has been prescribed as a terrorist
Speaker 5: organization today after Parliament approved a draft order laid on Monday,
Speaker 5: the twenty six of April. This order makes belonging to
Speaker 5: the Teogram Collective or inviting support for the group a
Speaker 5: criminal offense, with a potential prison sentence of fourteen years,
Speaker 5: which can be handed down alongside or in place of
Speaker 5: a fine. In addition, Section fifty eight makes it a
Speaker 5: criminal offense for a person to collect or possess information
Speaker 5: which is likely to be useful to a person committing
Speaker 5: or repairing for acts of terrorism, including where an individual
Speaker 5: views or accesses documents or records containing information of that kind.
Speaker 5: The Telegram Collective has now been added to the list
Speaker 5: of prescribed organizations in the UK alongside eighty other organizations.
Speaker 2: And with that announcement, Terogram is now a foreign terrorist organization.
Speaker 2: And because people died and at least one of the
Speaker 2: incidents the government laid out in the indictment as an act,
Speaker 2: the defendants insided they could go away for life. As
Speaker 2: Ali Winston put it in that Wired article quote, In
Speaker 2: other words, the US is treating terror in ways similar
Speaker 2: to how it has treated Islamist terrorist organizations. Terrorism researcher
Speaker 2: Seamus Hughes told Winston, quote, I would think of this
Speaker 2: case more like an old school terrorism investigation, where you
Speaker 2: have a leadership cell that pushed info to followers and
Speaker 2: radicalized them into action. Cases involving this particular charge are
Speaker 2: typically those involving groups like ISIS or al Qaida. I
Speaker 2: don't think we've seen this used before against white nationalist
Speaker 2: domestic terror organizations. Using this legal framework against a group
Speaker 2: like the Terrogram collective may signal a shift in the
Speaker 2: DOJ's strategy for targeting white nationalist terrorism in the United States.
Speaker 2: It's a big swing, as Hughes said, quote, it shows
Speaker 2: that either the FEDS are trying to make a point
Speaker 2: or they were very concerned about these particular actors, and
Speaker 2: maybe it's both right. It was long past time to
Speaker 2: do something, anything, anything at all about the most significant
Speaker 2: network of neo Nazi terrorist propaganda on the English speaking Internet.
Speaker 2: People have already died. There's every reason to believe the
Speaker 2: undercover agents they had in the group knew that more
Speaker 2: people would die if something didn't disrupt the organization. And
Speaker 2: maybe the Justice Department is just feeling a little more
Speaker 2: willing to use the tools they have to do something
Speaker 2: about right wing extremism more generally. This is obviously a
Speaker 2: much more seismic shift in policy. But we were just
Speaker 2: talking last week about the false statements charges against a
Speaker 2: soldier who allegedly lied about his extremist activities, and those
Speaker 2: charges were unusual and perhaps indicative of a shift in
Speaker 2: policy and strategy. I suppose it doesn't behoove me to
Speaker 2: make wilder speculations than the experts are willing to make,
Speaker 2: so we'll stick with what Seamus Hughes told Ally Winston.
Speaker 2: A case like this had to get sign off at
Speaker 2: the highest levels. Somebody in the DOJ wanted this network
Speaker 2: shut down. When the pair were arrested earlier this month,
Speaker 2: authorities searched their homes. Dallas Humber had three D printed guns,
Speaker 2: high capacity magazines, a short barreled rifle, unregistered firearms, a
Speaker 2: lot of Nazi propaganda, her own manifestos, and a notebook
Speaker 2: listing the white supremacist attackers with whom she corresponds, including
Speaker 2: Dylan Roof. When Matthew Allison was arrested, he was quote
Speaker 2: wearing a backpack containing zip ties, duct tape, a gun, ammunition,
Speaker 2: a knife, lockpicking equipment, two phones, and a thumb drive.
Speaker 2: After his arrest, Allison was advised of his rights, but
Speaker 2: waived them and quickly confessed in a recorded interview to
Speaker 2: engaging in the acts alleged in the indictment. The pair
Speaker 2: are currently held without bond, with the government citing their
Speaker 2: own statements about their willingness to die in a shootout
Speaker 2: rather than be arrested, about Allison's go bag, which indicates
Speaker 2: a desire to flee the country, the severity of the
Speaker 2: charges which could send them to prison for the rest
Speaker 2: of their lives, and their own prior statements expressing a
Speaker 2: willingness to murder or to have murdered people they suspect
Speaker 2: our cooperating witnesses against other Terogram members like Brendan Russell.
Speaker 2: These cooperating witnesses have been given permission by the government
Speaker 2: to testify in a closed court room without being named.
Speaker 2: In Brandon Russell's case. For Humber and Allison, there is
Speaker 2: not currently a date set for their next appearance in court,
Speaker 2: and with Humber and Allison in custody, the current version
Speaker 2: of the Terogram collective is dead. But what does that mean?
Speaker 2: This is only one head of a hydra. Just as
Speaker 2: new leaders emerged after Slovak Borough was arrested in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two, just as Brandon Russell continued to communicate with
Speaker 2: Humber after his arrest in twenty twenty three, a new
Speaker 2: poster will rise to take their place. Hopefully, this case
Speaker 2: signals a shift in the government's approach to throwing up
Speaker 2: roadblocks in the paths of aspiring Nazi terrorists. Because a
Speaker 2: dildo saleswoman from California and a failed DJ from Idaho
Speaker 2: may spend the rest of their lives behind bars, but
Speaker 2: it's only a matter of time before a new voice
Speaker 2: starts whispering white terror into the ears of impressionable teenage
Speaker 2: boys who're desperate to die in a way that will impress,
Speaker 2: four Chan posters.
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