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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Molly Hunger here, it's a holiday again. So even

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Speaker 2: though it's only been a few weeks since the last

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Speaker 2: time I said it was a little awkward to be

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Speaker 2: scrounging around for a rerun in a back catalog of

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Speaker 2: episodes that's only a few months deep. There I am again.

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Speaker 2: What can you do? It's not my fault. We pack

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Speaker 2: all our big holidays in so close together at the

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Speaker 2: end of the year, so there's no new Weird Little

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Speaker 2: Guy this week. This is an episode you may have

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Speaker 2: already listened to in the relatively recent past. The episode

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Speaker 2: I chose for this holiday rerun isn't exactly festive. It

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Speaker 2: has nothing to do with Christmas at all, and to

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Speaker 2: be honest, it's probably not great holiday listening. It's really depressing.

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Speaker 2: But I picked it for a reason. Earlier this month,

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Speaker 2: there was a school shooting in Wisconsin. There are a

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Speaker 2: lot of school shootings in America, more than two hundred

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Speaker 2: of them in twenty twenty four alone, according to data

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Speaker 2: from the gun violence prevention group every Town for Gun Safety.

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Speaker 2: And as I'm writing this, just a few days after

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Speaker 2: it happened and a week before you'll hear it, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot we still don't know about the shooting at

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Speaker 2: the Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin. A teacher

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Speaker 2: and a fourteen year old student were killed. Five more

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Speaker 2: students and one teacher were injured. The shooter, a fifteen

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Speaker 2: year old girl, took her own life a few minutes later.

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Speaker 2: Maybe this will have changed by next week, but today

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Speaker 2: we don't know for certain if the manifesto being circulated

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Speaker 2: online is authentic. Normally I wouldn't comment at all on

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Speaker 2: a document of unknown origin, but a number of listeners

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Speaker 2: have reached out to ask about a particular line, and

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Speaker 2: regardless of whether this turns out to have been authored

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Speaker 2: by the shooter herself, I was startled to see a

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Speaker 2: familiar name, Arda kosukietin the document refers to him as

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Speaker 2: the Ultimate Saint. It's chillingly specific language about a relatively

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Speaker 2: obscure figure one I talk a little bit about in

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Speaker 2: the episode You're about to hear. In August of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four, he stabbed several people outside of a mosque

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Speaker 2: in Turkey. In his manifesto, he states quite clearly that

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Speaker 2: he was motivated to carry out this attack by a

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Speaker 2: group called the Terogram collective the subject of this episode,

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Speaker 2: his name is almost entirely unknown outside of that very

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Speaker 2: small circle of online mass murder enthusiasts. I revisited a

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Speaker 2: thread today about the attack that was posted on Turkish

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Speaker 2: social media back when had happened just weeks after the incident.

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Speaker 2: One poster lamented that in less than a month it

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Speaker 2: was forgotten, but this week after the shooting in Wisconsin,

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Speaker 2: that threat is active again, with Turkish posters writing even

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Speaker 2: in Turkey he was forgotten and unknown overnight and asking

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Speaker 2: how a child in Wisconsin would even come to know

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Speaker 2: his name, let alone idolize him. Another user wrote, I

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Speaker 2: learned that a teenage school shooter in America took as

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Speaker 2: an example someone we make fun of in Turkey whose

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Speaker 2: name we don't even know, who attacks elderly people in

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Speaker 2: a mosque. This person we call a loser in Turkey

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Speaker 2: has become someone a teenager in America admires. The authenticity

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Speaker 2: of this alleged manifesto is still uncertain, but if it

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Speaker 2: is truly the work of a suicidal teenage girl who

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Speaker 2: took two lives before ending her own, describing arda Kosukiya

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Speaker 2: team as a saint, sets off alarm bells. Two of

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Speaker 2: the people behind the Terogram Collective may be behind bars now,

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Speaker 2: but their propaganda can still kill. So with that in mind,

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Speaker 2: here's an episode I recorded back in September. I'll be

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Speaker 2: back next year with more weird little guys. It was

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Speaker 2: a little after seven pm on a warm Wednesday evening

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Speaker 2: in October of twenty twenty two. Urai Van Koulik and

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Speaker 2: Matushorvath were sitting outside of Teplaren, a gay bar and

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Speaker 2: brought us lavas city center. Matusche was studying Chinese at

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Speaker 2: a nearby university. You or I was a drag performer

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Speaker 2: whose day job was designing the displays at a clothing store.

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Speaker 2: They were enjoying the evening outside of one of the

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Speaker 2: city's few dedicated queer spaces, and then they were dead.

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Speaker 2: They were shot by a teenager who left behind a

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Speaker 2: sixty five page neo Nazi manifesto before shooting himself in

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Speaker 2: a nearby park. August twelfth, twenty twenty four, was a

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Speaker 2: sunny afternoon in the Turkish city of his Kishiher. A

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Speaker 2: teenager wearing a skull mask and a bulletproof vest walked

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Speaker 2: into the tea garden outside of a mosque and stabbed

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Speaker 2: five men before being tackled to the ground. He too

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Speaker 2: left a manifesto glorifying mass murder. In July of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four, a teenager in New Jersey who'd been planning

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Speaker 2: to destroy power substations in New Brunswick was arrested at

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Speaker 2: the Newer airport before he'd fly to Ukraine to join

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Speaker 2: the Russian Volunteer Corps, where he hoped to learn the

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Speaker 2: skills he'd need to carry out acts of terror here

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Speaker 2: at home. These three teenagers never met, but they had

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Speaker 2: something in common. A murderer in Slovakia, an attempted murderer

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Speaker 2: in Turkey. They were alone when they walked the familiar

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Speaker 2: streets of their town, stalking their victims. They were alone

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Speaker 2: when they shock, They were alone when they stabbed. They

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Speaker 2: hunted human prey as lone wolves. But there are no

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Speaker 2: lone wolves, not really. The wolf Pack is online now,

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Speaker 2: baying for more blood.

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Speaker 3: Between nineteen sixty eight twenty one, one hundred and five

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Speaker 3: white men and women of Action have taken it upon

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Speaker 3: themselves to wage war against the system and our racial enemies.

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Speaker 3: Our saints are the best of our brothers, and this

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Speaker 3: is our legacy of white terror.

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Speaker 2: All three of these young men were incited to take

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Speaker 2: action by propaganda produced by the Terragram Collective, a one

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Speaker 2: synonymous group of militant neo Nazi accelerationists on the messaging

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Speaker 2: app Telegram. All three of them were radicalized by a

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Speaker 2: thirty four year old dildo saleswoman from California, narrating the

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Speaker 2: manifestos of their idols, the mass shooters who came before them.

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Speaker 2: I'm Molly Conger and this is weird, little guys. Yurai

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Speaker 2: Krachik died by suicide sometime overnight after he murdered two

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Speaker 2: people outside of a gay bar and brought us lava

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Speaker 2: on October twelfth, twenty twenty two. His body was found

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Speaker 2: in a nearby public park early the next morning, but

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Speaker 2: he didn't shoot himself right away. After fleeing the scene,

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Speaker 2: he got online. That was where he was most at home,

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Speaker 2: after all, that was where he became the man he

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Speaker 2: was in the moment he fired those shots. A few

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Speaker 2: hours before the attack, he tweeted out links to his manifesto.

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Speaker 2: After fleeing the scene of the shooting, he went home.

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Speaker 2: He told his parents what he had done. They argued,

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Speaker 2: but no one called the police. He left a handwritten

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Speaker 2: suicide note, retrieved a second gun from his father's safe,

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Speaker 2: and left the house again. His parents were the last

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Speaker 2: ones to see him alive. The city was crawling with

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Speaker 2: police that night. They were on high alert for the shooter,

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Speaker 2: worried he would act again, but even now that he

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Speaker 2: was armed with a fresh weapon, he didn't seek out

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Speaker 2: more targets. Krazik walked to a local park and checked

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Speaker 2: four chan on his phone. People were talking about him

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Speaker 2: about his attack. He wanted to see what they were saying.

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Speaker 2: Four Chan users quickly connected the shooting to his Twitter account.

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Speaker 2: As he'd walked home after the attack, he tweeted hashtag

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Speaker 2: brought a Slava feeling no regrets? Isn't that funny? On

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Speaker 2: four Chan, they were already discussing the manifesto he'd tweeted out.

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Speaker 2: One poster asked why would a Slovakian write his manifesto

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Speaker 2: in English? And this was the first post the shooter

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Speaker 2: replied to He wrote, because I felt like it. If

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Speaker 2: you're familiar with four chan, first of all, i'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: but if you've spent any time on there, you know

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Speaker 2: it's not a friendly place, and not just unfriendly to outside.

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Speaker 2: Even people who share similar ideologies are at each other's throats,

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Speaker 2: hurling insults, and engaging in an eternal competition to be

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Speaker 2: the nastiest person with an Internet connection. Posters mocked the

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Speaker 2: shooter for killing only two people and asked why he'd

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Speaker 2: chosen such low value targets. Even as they celebrated the

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Speaker 2: deaths of his victims. They bullied the shooter for not

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Speaker 2: doing more, for not doing it better, for not doing

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Speaker 2: it differently. They were Monday Morning quarterbacking murder Life is

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Speaker 2: just a first person shooter game for the keyboard Warrior

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Speaker 2: mass shooting enthusiast. To these comments, Krazil replied that he'd

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Speaker 2: wanted to shoot the Slovakian Prime Minister at Ward Hager,

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Speaker 2: writing wish I could have gone higher, but whatever wanted

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Speaker 2: to bag the Prime Minister, but I didn't get lucky

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Speaker 2: with his car arriving later. News reports do in fact

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Speaker 2: confirm that he was seen that evening on security camera

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Speaker 2: footage outside the Prime Minister's home an hour before the shooting.

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Speaker 2: The same news report maps out his walk home after

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Speaker 2: the shooting, a route that took him through a largely

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Speaker 2: Jewish neighborhood. Rejik lamented on four Chan that night that

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Speaker 2: he had wanted to shoot the Kabbad house too, but

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Speaker 2: he'd run out of ammunition, writing wish I could pull

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Speaker 2: off more got nearly no amm o bro. Posters on

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Speaker 2: four Chan were skeptical that the man replying to them

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Speaker 2: was truly the shooter himself, and demanded that he post

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Speaker 2: some kind of proof. A little after eleven thirty p m.

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Speaker 2: Four hours after fleeing the scene of the shooting, he did.

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Speaker 2: It's dark wherever he was. You can't see anything in

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Speaker 2: the background. The flash illuminates only the subject of the selfie.

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Speaker 2: He's completely expressionless. There's no smile, no bravado, no fear

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Speaker 2: even there's just nothing. He's looking straight at the camera,

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Speaker 2: holding his phone with one hand and making a finger

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Speaker 2: gun that points directly at the viewer with the other.

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Speaker 2: Have a last selfie, he says. Most of his posts

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Speaker 2: on the four Chan thread that night are in English,

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Speaker 2: it is the lingua franca of the site, after all,

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Speaker 2: but one user responds to this selfie in Slovak translated.

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Speaker 2: The comment reads, what happened boy? Why don't you smile anymore?

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Speaker 2: Reality set in? Did you fall for the meme stupid right.

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Speaker 2: The shooter replied to that comment in Slovak, saying, speak

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Speaker 2: for yourself. In attaching a second selfie, he's smiling this time,

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Speaker 2: kind of. It's hard to say you feel any sorrow

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Speaker 2: for a man who just murdered two people in cold

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Speaker 2: blood and then logged onto four chan to take credit

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Speaker 2: for it. And I don't, not really, not for this murderer,

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Speaker 2: But he was just a boy once, a boy whose

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Speaker 2: fake smile shows the still slightly rounded cheeks of a

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Speaker 2: kid who won't live to see the last adolescent chaining

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Speaker 2: to his face his forced smile, a smile that doesn't

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Speaker 2: reach the eyes in that selfie taken in the dark,

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Speaker 2: somewhere in the trees on the edge of town, will

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Speaker 2: probably stay with me for a while. He engages with

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Speaker 2: the four chan thread for nearly an hour, answering questions

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Speaker 2: and repeatedly acquiescing to demands for proof that it's really him.

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Speaker 2: He posts a picture of a handwritten note with the

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Speaker 2: time and date, posts another selfie, this time with his

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Speaker 2: shoe on top of his head. This is a common

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Speaker 2: form of proof demanded on four Chan to determine if

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Speaker 2: you are really interacting with someone who is who they

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Speaker 2: say they are, and in real time. I guess the

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Speaker 2: idea is that most people have a shoe nearby, but

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Speaker 2: most people don't have old photos of themselves online with

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Speaker 2: a shoe on their head. So if you can produce

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Speaker 2: such a photo on request, you probably are the person

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Speaker 2: in the photo and not just someone using photos of

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Speaker 2: a stranger that you found online. Another user asked him

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Speaker 2: to spell out the N word and leaves on the

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Speaker 2: ground and post a picture of that. He says it

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Speaker 2: would take too long to spell out the whole word

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Speaker 2: and posts a blurry photo of leaves arranged in the

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Speaker 2: shape of the letter N. Another user asks him what's

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Speaker 2: going through your mind right now, and he says, sad

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Speaker 2: for my family, happy with my own life. Nothing for

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Speaker 2: the two f slurs soon a bit of lead. Another

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Speaker 2: user asks if he plans to spend decades in prison

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Speaker 2: or if he'll kill himself. He replies with two words

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Speaker 2: and hero, which is memespeak for dying by suicide. His

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Speaker 2: last four Chan post was shortly before midnight. Four Chen

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Speaker 2: users are perpetually caught in between their desire for and

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Speaker 2: celebration of acts like this and their frustration that this

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Speaker 2: kind of thing makes them all look bad, you know,

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Speaker 2: it makes them look like exactly what they are, the

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Speaker 2: kind of people goading a teenage murderer into killing himself.

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Speaker 2: One poster writes, you have made everyone on this board

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Speaker 2: look like a terrorist? Is that what you wanted? Also

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Speaker 2: repent hell is real? His reply his final post reads

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Speaker 2: only not my problem. On Twitter, his final post was

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Speaker 2: a little after midnight in Slovak, he wrote, see you

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Speaker 2: on the other side. A Slovak language news report says

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Speaker 2: that two days before the attack, he had called a

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Speaker 2: mental health crisis hotline. He said, I have to die,

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Speaker 2: but I am very afraid, and then he hung up.

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Speaker 2: But in his final hours he didn't call back. He

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Speaker 2: didn't call that hotline. He didn't turn himself in or

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Speaker 2: seek help. He sought reassurance and support from the place

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Speaker 2: least likely to provide it. He logged onto four Chan,

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Speaker 2: hoping to see his acts hailed as heroic, but they

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Speaker 2: just laughed at him. He was dead before terogram canonized him,

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Speaker 2: placing him in the pantheon of terror. He worshiped. Authorities

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Speaker 2: in Slovakia weren't able to ping his cell phone location

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Speaker 2: until five am. The cell phone provider didn't have any

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Speaker 2: employees working overnight. His body was found in the park

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Speaker 2: around seven am. It's not clear exactly when he died,

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Speaker 2: but if I had to put money on it, I'd

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Speaker 2: guess he died in real life shortly after he logged off.

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Speaker 2: He posted right up through the end, and that's all

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Speaker 2: we really knew. In October of twenty twenty two, the

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Speaker 2: manifesto was online for all to see. In the manifesto,

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Speaker 2: he includes the Terogram Collective in his list of special

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Speaker 2: thanks at the end, writing you know who you are.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for your incredible writing and art, for your

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Speaker 2: political texts, for your practical guides building the future of

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Speaker 2: the White Revolution one publication at a time. In the

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Speaker 2: section of the manifesto under the header recommended reading, he

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Speaker 2: lists many of the usual suspects. He was inspired by

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Speaker 2: the christ Church Mosque shooting and recommends that shooter's manifesto.

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Speaker 2: He praises the terrorist's bible, William Luther Pierce's novel The

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Speaker 2: Turner Diaries, and even recommends the prequel, an even sloppier

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Speaker 2: novel called Hunter, But he also recommends two other lesser

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Speaker 2: known publications. Two of the four publications authored by the

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Speaker 2: Terrogram Collective. He lists these two Militant Accelerationism and the

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Speaker 2: Hard Reset, last, writing, if the other books give a

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Speaker 2: theoretical and fictional base for our resistance, these two provide

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Speaker 2: the practical means for it. They also go into a

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Speaker 2: deeper dive into some issues, concepts, and things. Anyone who

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Speaker 2: seeks to fight Zog should know. These two may be

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Speaker 2: harder to find than the other books I listed, but

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Speaker 2: you can find them if you look in the right places.

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Speaker 2: The link between the Broadus Lava Shooting and the Teogram

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Speaker 2: Collective was never a secret. It was right there all along.

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Speaker 2: He said it himself. He recommended their propaganda and thanked

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Speaker 2: them in the acknowledgments. But when he was posting on

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Speaker 2: Fortune that night, he lied about something earlier. In this

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Speaker 2: Murderer's Q and a session, someone asked him, have you

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Speaker 2: been talking to some other people over telegram, discord or signal?

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Speaker 2: And he replies, made my own decision to do this.

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Speaker 2: I had barely any dms with people on telegram or wherever.

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Speaker 2: And he later followed up with their channel owners. Hence

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Speaker 2: the Annan part. Don't know their names. They produced good content,

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Speaker 2: though Craigich was trying to backtrack on his initial post

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Speaker 2: that he'd exchanged direct messages with anyone in the lead

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Speaker 2: up to the attack. The truth, as it turns out,

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Speaker 2: is that he wasn't just reading the material produced by

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Speaker 2: the teogram Collis, he was in active communication with its leaders.

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Speaker 2: This teenage murderer in Slovakia hadn't just posted his manifesto

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Speaker 2: online before the attack. He'd also sent it directly to

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Speaker 2: someone immediately after. He wanted to be certain that his

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Speaker 2: message got out, so he sent it to someone he

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Speaker 2: knew would spread it, someone who had helped him craft it.

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Speaker 2: He sent the manifesto to Matthew Allison, a man in

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Speaker 2: his thirties living in Boise, Idaho, earlier this month. In

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Speaker 2: September of twenty twenty four, Matthew Allison of Boise and

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Speaker 2: Dallas Humber of Elk Grove, California, were arrested in charge

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Speaker 2: in a fifteen count indictment with soliciting hate crimes, soliciting

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Speaker 2: the murder of federal officials, interstate threats, distributing information relating

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Speaker 2: to explosives, and conspiring to provide material support to terrorists.

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Speaker 2: The pair are alleged to be the ringleaders of the

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Speaker 2: Terragram Collective, that association of pseudonymous posters on Telegram that

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Speaker 2: produce neo Nazi accelerationist propaganda, and now, according to the

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Speaker 2: Department of Justice, the Teogram Collective can also be called

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Speaker 2: a transnational terrorist group. According to the allegations in the indictment,

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Speaker 2: Krajik was an active member of the group's chat for

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Speaker 2: a year leading up to the shooting. And I guess

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Speaker 2: I should back up a little bit and explain a

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Speaker 2: little more about what's going on in these chats, as

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Speaker 2: much as I would really rather not. There are plenty

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Speaker 2: of Nazi chat rooms. There is no shortage of places

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Speaker 2: online where a racial slur enthusiast can log on and

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Speaker 2: share ideas with other guys who hate black people and

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Speaker 2: Jewish people, and gay people and immigrants and women and whatever.

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Speaker 2: Pick your flavor. It's out there in abundance. This is

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Speaker 2: something much darker. These are accelerationists, people who believe their

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Speaker 2: goals can only be achieved by driving society over the

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Speaker 2: brink and into total collapse. They believe that acts of

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Speaker 2: mass murder, terrorism, and destruction are the necessary course of

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Speaker 2: action to create the chaos required to allow a new

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Speaker 2: world to be born, a world built by and four

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Speaker 2: white men alone, and they aren't just talking about it.

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Speaker 2: The Terogram Collective has produced a series of what would

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Speaker 2: you call them, manuals, manifestos, zines, terrorism handbooks. They've put

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Speaker 2: out four written publications in one short documentary, all directed

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Speaker 2: at providing both inspiration and explicit instruction on how their

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Speaker 2: followers can commit acts of unspeakable violence. In the online spaces,

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Speaker 2: past acts are celebrated. One of the core elements of

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Speaker 2: the group's shared language is this pantheon of saints. It's

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Speaker 2: not the saints you're thinking of. This is a gruesome hagiography.

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Speaker 2: They've canonized mass shooters. They celebrate the Saint Day of

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Speaker 2: each shooter on the day of their atrocity. Robert Bowers, Unders,

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Speaker 2: Bravic Dylan Rue, Brenton Terran, Patrick Crusius, Anton London Peterson,

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Speaker 2: murderers from infamous to obscure, murderers from all over the world.

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Speaker 2: The criteria for sainthood are fivefold, race, motive, intent, score,

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Speaker 2: and worldview. The prospective saint must, of course, be white.

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Speaker 2: There is occasionally some debate in the Nazi community about

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Speaker 2: whether they should offer their begrudging respect for non white

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Speaker 2: mass murderers who nevertheless kill large numbers of people they

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Speaker 2: deem worthy targets, but the answer is generally no. So

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Speaker 2: while they would celebrate something like the Pulse night club shooting,

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Speaker 2: which killed nearly fifty people, most of whom were both

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Speaker 2: Latino and members of the queer community, that perpetrator cannot

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Speaker 2: be celebrated as a saint because he fails the first test.

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Speaker 2: He isn't white. Intent, motive, and worldview all feel like

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Speaker 2: they kind of describe the same thing. So I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure why there are five criteria when they probably could

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Speaker 2: have condensed it down to three. But the attack must

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Speaker 2: be deliberate, that's intent, committed in the spirit of our struggle,

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Speaker 2: that's motive, and be motivated by a white nationalist ideology.

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Speaker 2: Though they are willing to make some exceptions. There's a

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Speaker 2: little wiggle room here for attacks that are right wing

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Speaker 2: but not explicitly neo Nazi. And score means exactly what

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Speaker 2: you probably think it means. They're keeping score, they're counting bodies.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes if you log into the worst kind of place

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Speaker 2: during an active attack or in the immediate aftermath of one,

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00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,719
Speaker 2: you'll see eager speculation that someone could be getting a

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Speaker 2: new high score like it's some kind of video game,

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Speaker 2: and there are no exceptions to this requirement. You cannot

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Speaker 2: become a terrogram saint with a score of zero. Someone

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Speaker 2: has to die. These ideas didn't originate with Matthew Allison

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Speaker 2: and Dallas Humber. Both of them have been members of

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Speaker 2: this online community for years since at least twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, after the arrest of one of

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Speaker 2: the community's most prolific posters, they became the group's leaders.

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Speaker 2: A user who posted as Slovak Bro, Pavel Benedikue, was

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Speaker 2: arrested in Slovakia in early twenty twenty two and eventually

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Speaker 2: sentenced to six years in prison for his support of terrorism,

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Speaker 2: and Slovak Bro isn't the the only Tarogram author to

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00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 2: land himself in prison. Brandon Russell, the Adam Woffin founder,

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00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: currently awaiting trial on charges of conspiracy to blow up

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00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 2: the power grid in Baltimore, was in close communication with

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Speaker 2: members of the group before and after his arrest. He

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00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: appears to have participated in the creation of at least

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Speaker 2: some of the group's work. Two men in Canada were

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Speaker 2: arrested last fall with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police press

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Speaker 2: release alleging that they too had participated in the creation

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Speaker 2: of Tarogram manifestos. Their cases are ongoing and subject to

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Speaker 2: a publication ban in Canada, so the extent of their

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Speaker 2: involvement and the possibility that revelations in those cases had

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Speaker 2: some bearing on the investigation here in the US is

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Speaker 2: unknown right now, as the leaders of the Tarogram collective,

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Speaker 2: Dallas Humber and Matthew Allison, are alleged to have directly

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00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 2: contributed to acts of terrorism all over the world. Their

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00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: publications provided detailed instructions on how to make bombs, how

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Speaker 2: to make napalm at home with materials you can by

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00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: at the hardware store, the most efficient way to destroy

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Speaker 2: an electrical substation with rifle fire, and how to identify

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00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: the most valuable targets in your area, targets that could

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Speaker 2: be infrastructure or human. They maintained a document called the List,

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Speaker 2: a list of high value assassination targets. For each name

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Speaker 2: on the list, there was a little graphic like a

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Speaker 2: trading card. The target's name, home address, and photograph were

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00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: always featured, along with the reasons why they were considered

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00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 2: an enemy of the cause. Those reasons, as you might expect,

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00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: tended to be related to the target's identity. They're Jewish,

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Speaker 2: they're gay, they're an immigrant, or some other kind of

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Speaker 2: undesirable in their eyes. The names on the list include senators, judges,

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Speaker 2: a former federal prosecutor, state and local government officials, and

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Speaker 2: nonprofit employees. In their chats, they posted the list off

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00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: and would sometimes post individual members of the list alongside

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00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: encouragement to take action. In one exchange described in the indictment,

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00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 2: a member of the group chat asked if there were

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Speaker 2: any members of the list located in his area. The

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00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: administrator of the group responded with a trading card image

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Speaker 2: for a target in a city in the posters area.

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Speaker 2: The user replied, we already have this one, and asked

399
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Speaker 2: the channel administrator to tag him if any new names

400
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: were added to the list in his area. A user

401
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: the government alleges is Dallas. Humber replied, we'll do. A

402
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: week later, she tagged that same user with a new

403
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: name in the same city. He replied, very good, I'll

404
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: check in with my guys now. And it wasn't just

405
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: members of the list who were in danger. Humber and

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00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: Allison would routinely remind members of the group of the

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00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: kinds of targets they should be seeking out. In June

408
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, Humber posted numerous exhortations to followers

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00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: that they should be targeting Gay Pride Month events, writing

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Speaker 2: in one post.

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Speaker 1: Mass shootings, arson, bombings, vehicle tax the list goes on

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Speaker 1: and the opportunities provided to you this month will be plentiful.

413
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: Don't let them go to waste. What's more impactful boycotting

414
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: target or getting dozens of targets in your sights and

415
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: taking them out permanently. Actions speak louder than words. Direct

416
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: lethal action speaks louder than any boycott This Pride month,

417
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: give us what we truly need, a new saint to

418
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: be proud of and a glorious new attack to celebrate.

419
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: You've got the means an opportunity. All you need is

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00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: the will. Don't breathe a word of what you're planning

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Speaker 1: to anyone, and make it count.

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00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 2: Make it count. That's a frequent refrain Make it Count

423
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 2: as the title of one of the group's terrorism manuals.

424
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: It's also the final line of the Broadesslava Shooters manifesto.

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00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: The line itself comes from Siege the collected Essays of

426
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: James Mason. If the Turner Diaries is their Bible, Siege

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00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 2: is perhaps a missile or a brevery. Maybe the analogy

428
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: doesn't hold. I don't know, but Mason is the godfather

429
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 2: of modern fascist terrorism. Read Siege was such a constant

430
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: directive in so many Nazi chats for so long that

431
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 2: it's more of a meme than an actual instruction. At

432
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: this point. Mason wrote the Siege Newsletter throughout the early

433
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: to mid eighties. The essays were collected and published in

434
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: book form in the early nineties, but the text languished

435
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: in relative obscurity until it was rediscovered by users of

436
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: the Nazi forum Iron March in the early twenty tens.

437
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: It's no coincidence that Adam Wafflin was born on the

438
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: pages of that forum, in the bubbling ideological soup, where

439
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: young men were exchanging their favorite passages of Siege. It's

440
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 2: a messy, sprawling six or so pages, depending on the

441
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: addition you've bootlegged from some terrorism chat room, and it's

442
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: mostly useless ramblings. There's a lot of repetitive content. It

443
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 2: wasn't written to be a book. To be fair, the

444
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: line Make It Count comes from the end of the

445
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: August nineteen eighty two newsletter in a missive titled Biting

446
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: the Bullet. Like much of the Device in Siege, this

447
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: essay is about taking action, about choosing the time, the target,

448
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: and the circumstances of your attack on the system, because

449
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: you may only get one chance to strike. The essay concludes,

450
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: quote in revolution, the price of failure generally is death.

451
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: So whatever you do, and whatever course you choose, don't

452
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: sell yourself cheap. Make it count. Make it Count. The

453
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: Collective's Terrorism Guide by the same name and The Hard

454
00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: Reset both contain diagrams of electrical transformers and instruction for

455
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: damaging them, released around the same time, both in June

456
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two. Make It Count as a light

457
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: fourteen pages, it's more propaganda than manual. The page titled

458
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: Blackout is dominated by a large graphic of a rifle

459
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: with a scope and big neon text that reads in

460
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: all caps, locate substation, range, find shoot transformers, flee undetected,

461
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: which I guess are technically instructions, they're just not very

462
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: good ones. The Hard Reset, on the other hand, is

463
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: a nearly three hundred page compilation of essays, graphics manuals,

464
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: and just a nightmarish collection of fonts and colors that

465
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: would make a graphic designer weep Around. Halfway through, there's

466
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: a section containing incredibly detailed instructions, complete with diagrams, for

467
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: sabotaging all manner of infrastructure. How to derail a train,

468
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: how to damage a cell phone tower, things to consider

469
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: when bombing a truck depot, ways you might contaminate a

470
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: municipal water treatment plant, And of course, four pages of

471
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: advice on sabotaging the power grid. Alongside mass shootings, attacks

472
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: on the power grid are the group's favorite fixation. We

473
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 2: talked a little bit about the concept in another episode

474
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, Lights Out about the Nazi paramilitary

475
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: marines who hoped to knock out power in the Pacific Northwest.

476
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: They thought it would provide cover for a planned series

477
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: of assassinations. Those guys never got a chance to read

478
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: the Terragram collective manuals on the subject, they were arrested

479
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: before they were written. But as I said in that episode,

480
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: this idea has been popular in right wing circles for decades.

481
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: Take out the power, chaos ensues something something Step three,

482
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 2: then race war. The middle part never really gets fleshed out,

483
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: but they all seem very convinced that something happens right

484
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: after it gets dark that causes a race war. I'm

485
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: not really sold on that logic, but they are bound

486
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: and determined to put holes in a substation. Nevertheless, the

487
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: indictment lists numerous occasions on which Dallas Humber encourages her

488
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 2: followers to take the advice provided in the manuals and

489
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: attack the grid. In December of twenty twenty two, after

490
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: these still unsolved attacks on electrical infrastructure in Jones County,

491
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: North Carolina on November eleventh, and Moore County on December third,

492
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 2: Humber posted encouragement for anyone planning a similar grid attack,

493
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: advising them not to let second thoughts or fear of

494
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: failure or fear of getting caught demotivate them. Do not

495
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: let this big mistake happen to you, she wrote in

496
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: all caps, reminding them to have a plan, carry it out,

497
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: and keep their mouths shut. A few days later, she.

498
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: Wrote, maybe that person could be you, lining up your

499
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: sights on these metal behemoths from the tree line, squeezing

500
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: the trigger and retreating from the area with a shitting

501
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: grin on your face, knowing the chaos you've just unleashed.

502
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: And after a third, still unsolved attack was carried out

503
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: just a month later in Randolph County, North Carolina, Humber

504
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: posted again.

505
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: Everyone, please take a moment to congratulate yourselves. It seems

506
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: as though this avenue of attack, an incredibly effective one

507
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: at that has really caught on. I like to think

508
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: that all our hard work in detailing its effectiveness and

509
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: showing our community how easy it is not only to do,

510
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: but to get away with, has helped encourage this death

511
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: to the grid, death the system.

512
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: So the Terogram Collective isn't exactly taking credit for the

513
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: grid attacks in North Carolina, but they aren't not taking

514
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: credit for it either. She does credit herself and the

515
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: group with popularizing the idea. She speculates that perhaps the

516
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: attacker or attackers had read her work, read her words,

517
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: and listened to her voice and decided to act, But

518
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: there's no claim made that she knows who did it,

519
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: and maybe she doesn't. We don't actually know whether these

520
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: attacks were committed by someone inspired by the Terrogram Collective

521
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: at all, even if they were ideologically motivated. She didn't

522
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: invent the idea, and a similar attack out in Washington

523
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: State during the same time period was actually committed by

524
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: a pair of would be thieves who thought they could

525
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: get cash out of ATMs during a power outage. So

526
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't a terrorist at all, but if it was,

527
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: it is entirely possible that an attacker inspired by her

528
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 2: work was operating based off of a one directional relationship,

529
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: that this person consumed the content and acted on it

530
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: without ever actually having a conversation with the author. We

531
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: didn't learn until much later, though, that this wasn't the

532
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 2: case with the shooting in Broadislava, and we do you

533
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: know that at least one would be grid attacker was

534
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: definitely in that chat and definitely in communication with the

535
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: Tterogram collective. Andrew Takestov was arrested in July of twenty

536
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: twenty four at the Newark Airport. He was on his

537
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: way to Ukraine to join the Russian Volunteer Corps, a

538
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: neo Nazi paramilitary group of Russian citizens inside Ukraine who

539
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: opposed the Putin government. Takeistov had been a member of

540
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: the Tarogram collective chat since at least January of twenty

541
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: twenty four. And in January of twenty twenty four, he

542
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: made a new friend online. It isn't stated outright in

543
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: his charging documents or in the cases against Humber and Allison,

544
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: but it sounds like he made this friend in the

545
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 2: Tarogram chat, and this friend turned out to be an

546
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 2: undercover FBI agent around this same time. In January of

547
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, Takestov asks in the Terogram chat for

548
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 2: recommendations for quote documentaries about our guys made by our guys,

549
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: and he asks if anyone has more content like White Terror,

550
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 2: which is the twenty four minute documentary the Collective put

551
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: out in October of twenty twenty two. The video is

552
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: a compilation of descriptions of over one hundred white supremacist

553
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 2: attacks carried out between nineteen sixty eight and twenty twenty two.

554
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: It is, in their words, their litany of the Saints.

555
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: Humber narrates the video herself. She is the voice of Terogram,

556
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: but she's not very skilled voice actor, and that's not

557
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: just my opinion. The website Militant Wire, a publication that

558
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: writes about political violence all over the world, wrote of

559
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: her narration.

560
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 4: It is both striking and seemingly incongruous to the material

561
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 4: the way a young, average female voice devoid of ghoulish

562
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 4: stylization or of discernible malice and hatred not only celebrates

563
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 4: acts of terrorism while parroting well established neo Nazi tropes

564
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 4: and slogans, but perhaps most of all, the unburden and

565
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 4: rather natural way that this young woman uses the most

566
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 4: cutting of racial slurs and homophobic pejoratives. It is one

567
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 4: thing to see edgy young men describe mass murderer Dylan

568
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 4: Rufe as Saint Rufe on a message board, for example,

569
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 4: and quite another to hear a young woman say it

570
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 4: aloud and without traceable irony.

571
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 2: She sounds bored as she lists shootings, bombings, arsons and stabbings,

572
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 2: just droning out this list of the dead. The video

573
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 2: was published just days after the shooting had brought us Lava,

574
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: but it had already been finalized before the attack, so

575
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: he's not in it. The list of their murderer's heroes

576
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: ends with the Buffalo Supermarket shooter from May of twenty

577
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: twenty two, but the video concludes with Humbers. There's deadpan

578
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: reading of an ominous message. The list is always growing,

579
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: and you could join it.

580
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 3: And to the saints of tomorrow watching this today, know

581
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 3: that when you succeed, you will be celebrated with reverence,

582
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 3: and your sacrifice.

583
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: Will not be in vain.

584
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: Hail the Saints, and hail are glorious and bloody. Legacy

585
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 3: of white hair.

586
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: When Takeistav asked if they had any more content like

587
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 2: that video, Humber replied with a file an audio recording

588
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 2: of her reading the Jacksonville Dollar General Shooters Manifesto. The manifesto,

589
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: entitled A White Boy Summer to Remember, had just been

590
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: released that month by the Jacksonville Sheriff's Department. Humber quickly

591
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: recorded the audiobook version for the Terogram Collective, as she

592
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: had with many manifestos before it. Her audio recording of

593
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 2: the Broados Lava Shooters Manifesto was released to the chat

594
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 2: within a week of that attack, just as she'd promised

595
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: Kragik it would be before he died a few months later.

596
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: In April of twenty twenty four, Talkistov posted again thanking

597
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: Humber for links to videos providing instructions on attacking energy facilities.

598
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 2: One video in particular had instructions for using my lar

599
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: balloons to damage power lines their conductive metal surface can

600
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: start a fire when it comes into contact with electrical infrastructure.

601
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 2: Takistanv was so pleased with this advice, it seems that

602
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 2: he thought he might like to try it. Later that summer,

603
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 2: he met up with his new friend from the chat room,

604
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 2: though one he didn't know was an undercover FBI agent. Together,

605
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: they drove around New Jersey looking at substations. Takistov proudly

606
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: shared the instructions for how to carry out the attack,

607
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: directing his friend to use mylar balloons to short circuit

608
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: the transformer. He followed up by sending his friend a

609
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: copy of the hard Reset, telling him quote, it's really

610
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: the only thing you need. It has ideology, it has

611
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: how to guides, It has ideas for funny things. It

612
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: goes into how you should plan it. It really goes

613
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 2: into the thought process. Takstov told the agent his new

614
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 2: friend that his plan was to fly to Ukraine and

615
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: volunteer with the Russian Volunteer Corps. He'd chosen that group

616
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: in particular because, according to the indictment quote, the group

617
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 2: was openly national socialist and more importantly, specialized in assassinations

618
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 2: attacks on power grids and other infrastructure. Sabotage, so he

619
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 2: hoped to go over there, get some training, do a

620
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: little fighting, and then return home with new skills he

621
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: could use here. He instructed his new friend not to

622
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: be idle in his absence, that while Takistov was gone,

623
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 2: he expected his new friend to carry out at least

624
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: one attack, perhaps the attack on the substation they'd been discussing.

625
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 2: He also recommended getting a rifle and a cheap burner phone.

626
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 2: The burner phone wasn't for communication, though, it was to

627
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 2: be used to determine if a cell tower had been

628
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 2: sufficiently damaged by rifle rounds that it no longer transmitted

629
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 2: a signal. So you take the phone out, you start

630
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 2: shooting at the tower, and if the phone still has bars,

631
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 2: keep shooting. In July, just a few days before he

632
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: would board the plane to Ukraine, Takistov met up with

633
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: his new friend one last time. This time they drove

634
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: out to a warehouse full of trucking equipment. Takistov explained

635
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: to the undercover agent how he should access the facility

636
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 2: to damage equipment with a Molotov cocktail. He also suggested

637
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 2: some strategies for derailing trains. He essentially talked through almost

638
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: all of the infrastructure related attacks suggested by the Terogram

639
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: Collective publication that he'd already shared with the agent, and

640
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 2: then he tried to get on a plane. Takistov did

641
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: not make his flight. On July tenth, he was arrested

642
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: at the airport. He's not due back in court until October,

643
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 2: but he is the attacker two listed in the indictment

644
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 2: against Alice Humber and Matthew Allison. That indictment lists three

645
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: individuals that the government is confident they can prove were

646
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 2: incited to action directly by the Terogram Collective. Attacker one

647
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: is the Broadislava shooter. Attacker three is the teenager who

648
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: stabbed five men outside of a mosque in Turkey last month.

649
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 2: He was taken into custody alive, and as far as

650
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: reporting I can find, all of his victims are expected

651
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: to survive. The teenager, identified by Turkish press only by

652
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: his first name and last initial, arda K, was acknowledged

653
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 2: by the Terogram Collective but not canonized as a saint.

654
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 2: He failed, although his intent, ideology, and worldview are consistent

655
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: with the kind of murderer they're looking for. The teenager

656
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: failed to take any lives, and more importantly, he isn't white.

657
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: After the attack, Dallas Humber wrote in the chat, he

658
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: included the Tarogram books and other Saint manifestos in his file, Dump,

659
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 2: gives shout outs to the other Saints in his manifesto

660
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: and references several hard Reset passages. He was one hundred

661
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: percent our guy, but he's not white, so I can't

662
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 2: give him an honorary title. We can still celebrate his attack,

663
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: though he did it for Tarogram. She followed up later

664
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: on writing we can hail him anyway. We just can't

665
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 2: add him to the pantheon. But yeah, it's a great

666
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: development regardless. Inspiring more attacks is the goal, and anyone

667
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: claiming to be an accelerationist should support them. It isn't

668
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: specified in the court documents whether our Decae had ever

669
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: directly participated in the Tarogram collective chats, but he certainly

670
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 2: read their work. He wasn't just inspired by some shared ideology.

671
00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 2: He cites them directly in this manifesto. Manifesto, however, is

672
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: written in Turkish, which you'd expect because there's something a

673
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: little strange about the manifesto Urikrazik left behind. It's in English.

674
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: That's not entirely extraordinary. He spoke English, though he'd never

675
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: spent any time in an English speaking country. He probably

676
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 2: would have learned it in school. He watched American television

677
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: shows and movies. He had access to American music. He

678
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: participated in online spaces where English is the primary language.

679
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 2: But the manifesto is in perfect English. And I don't

680
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: mean perfect English like from a textbook, something you could

681
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 2: achieve through study. It's native English. It has idioms and

682
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: terms of phrase and even mistakes that only a native

683
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 2: English speaker would really use. And that's not my opinion.

684
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: According to an analysis by forensic linguist Julia Kupper published

685
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 2: by the Accelerationism Research Consortium, the manifesto was almost certainly

686
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 2: written by a native English speaker who grew up in

687
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 2: the United States, probably someone with a good education, and

688
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 2: someone a bit older than Crachick, someone maybe in their forties.

689
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: The obvious answer then, is, well, he plagiarized it, right.

690
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 2: It's copy paste, and that's surprisingly common.

691
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 4: A lot of.

692
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: Manifestos lift large portions of their text from other similar documents.

693
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 2: But Copper checked he hadn't. This isn't copy pasta this

694
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: isn't someone else's manifesto. This was an original work, but

695
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: Crachick couldn't have written it. Copper conducted a forensic linguistic

696
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 2: analysis on the manifesto, the handwritten suicide note, several hundred

697
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: tweets from his account, and the four Chan posts made

698
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 2: the night of the shooting. She concluded that a second

699
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: author was involved in both the manifesto and some of

700
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 2: the tweets, but that the four Chan posts and the

701
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 2: suicide note were written by him alone. According to covers analysis,

702
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 2: there are some telltale signs of two writers at work.

703
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 2: When Krajik posted a photo on four Chan that night

704
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: to prove he was who he said he was, he

705
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 2: showed a handwritten note with a date on it, and

706
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: we know he wrote this himself, and in European fashion

707
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 2: he wrote the date day month year, not month day

708
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: year as Americans would do. The manifesto, though uses an

709
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: American date format. In his tweets, there are style shifts

710
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 2: that seem to indicate two people may have had access

711
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: to the account. Changes in tone and vocabulary and the

712
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 2: way that punctuation is used, shifting between the European style

713
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: and the American style of where commas and periods go

714
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 2: on either side of a quotation or parentheses. The American

715
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: English style of formatting began appearing in the tweets in

716
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 2: May of twenty twenty two, the month he claims he

717
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 2: began working on the manifesto and the plan in Earnest

718
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 2: Cupper's report was published in early twenty twenty three, just

719
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 2: six months after the attack and more than a year

720
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 2: before the extent of Crojick's involvement with the terrogram chat

721
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 2: administrators came to light after their arrests. It raises some

722
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: questions we may not get answers to. Perhaps the criminal

723
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: proceedings against Alison and Humber will result in Twitter producing

724
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: some records that could show more than one person logging

725
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 2: into the account, but maybe not. There may be no

726
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 2: satisfying conclusion to this mystery. But if an older, educated,

727
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: native English speaking American author wrote most of that manifesto,

728
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: it certainly confers some responsibility onto that author for the

729
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 2: attack that accompanied it. The co author of the manifesto

730
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: didn't pull the trigger, but they may as well have

731
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 2: if Humber and Allison are being prosecuted for their contributions

732
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 2: to this attack. In particular, whether or not they had

733
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: fore knowledge. Whether or not they participated in the crafting

734
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 2: of this manifesto would be a significant factor in the prosecution.

735
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: But who are these people? Who is Matthew Allison? Who

736
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 2: is Dallas Humber? How did they end up running a

737
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: transnational terrorist organization that goads young men into committing acts

738
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: of terrorism. Matthew Allison wasn't revealed as a Terrogram collective

739
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: administrator until this indictment was unsealed. We didn't know his

740
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 2: name until he was arrested, but Dallas Humber was unmasked

741
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: a year and a half ago. Researchers at Left Coast

742
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: Right Watch and independent investigative journalism outlet covering politics and

743
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: extremism identified Humber in March of twenty twenty three. The

744
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: story was confirmed and re reported by Huffington Post soon after.

745
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: Dallas Humber was miss Gorehound, the voice of Terrogram. The

746
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: story is a truly bizarre one. I'll link it in

747
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: the show notes and I highly recommend checking out this

748
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,760
Speaker 2: story in particular and Left Coast Right Watch in general.

749
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: They were able to locate the earliest days of Humber's

750
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: journey to becoming the voice of White Terror when she

751
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: was just thirteen, She was active on sites like deviant

752
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: Art and live journal, where she described herself as a

753
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: hopeless fangirl for serial killers. Their digital archaeology shows that

754
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 2: Humber has been making fan art for murderers for over

755
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 2: twenty years. She was describing herself as a National Socialist

756
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 2: in her online journal as early as two thousand and four,

757
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: when she was just fourteen. By twenty fourteen, she was

758
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: using one of the monikers she carried through to the present,

759
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 2: little Miss Gorehound. Quoting from lcrw's twenty twenty three write

760
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: up on Humber quote, her earliest interest in gurro art

761
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,479
Speaker 2: had become a full blown gore fetish. In its purest form,

762
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: gurro is meant to simultaneously evoke a sense of eroticism

763
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: and grotesqueness. It's meant to make the viewer uncomfortable. At

764
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 2: its worst, it can only be described as hen Tai snuff.

765
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: Nearly all of her art from this period features abused women.

766
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: LCRW has chosen not to share the images as they

767
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 2: depict scenes of torture, dismemberment, and explicit sexual violence. For

768
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: the most part, the only women that aren't being subjected

769
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 2: to violence and brutality are perpetuating it against other women.

770
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 2: The men, however, are portrayed as strong, powerful, and heroic,

771
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: and by twenty nineteen, Humber had found her new online

772
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: home terrogram. Her now nearly twenty year old hobby of

773
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 2: creating gore art was right at home in an online

774
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 2: community devoted to celebrating mass murder, and now she wasn't

775
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 2: just drawing pictures of killers, she was drawing pictures for them.

776
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: She posted photos on Telegram of her correspondence with convicted

777
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: mass murderer Dylan Rufe. Several outlets have reported on these letters,

778
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 2: and they do point out that they were unable to

779
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 2: confirm with prison officials how often Humber was corresponding with Rufe,

780
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 2: but the images she posted matched the handwriting and style

781
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 2: of known samples of Roofe's letters. In one letter she posted,

782
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 2: Rufe requests a drawing from her. He asks for quote

783
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: a wizard with mean slash, unfriendly eyebrows, or a dragon

784
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: or an unfriendly eyebrowed wizard writing a dragon. End quote.

785
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: I hope that's the only time I ever have to

786
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: quote Dylan Rufe. The Little Miss Gorehound account posted a

787
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: photo of the finished drawing of the unfriendly looking wizard,

788
00:51:54,640 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: with the caption finished Dylan's Wizard hashtag Saint Mail. She

789
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 2: also claimed to have written cards to Brenton Tarrant, imprisoned

790
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 2: in New Zealand for the murders of fifty one worshippers

791
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 2: at mosques in christ Church, and to Anders Bravic, imprisoned

792
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,240
Speaker 2: in Norway for the murder of seventy seven people, most

793
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 2: of whom were children. It's unclear what, if anything, Humber

794
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,439
Speaker 2: does for a day job these days, but LCRWS write

795
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 2: up uncovered that for many years she made a living

796
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: as a dildo saleswoman using the pseudonym techs Hunter. But

797
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 2: after that article was published, nothing happened, nothing changed. We

798
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 2: knew who she was, but nobody made a move to intervene,

799
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 2: and she carried on as she always had. Shannon Foley

800
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: Martinez told Huffington Post back in March of twenty twenty

801
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: three that quote, it is an absolute given that terrogram

802
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 2: will inspire more shootings if left unchecked. In the heartbreaking

803
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 2: position of knowing exactly what she's talking about, Shannon was

804
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: radicalized by a boyfriend as a teenager, but quickly left

805
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,959
Speaker 2: the movement and has since dedicated decades of her life

806
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: to the ugly work of trying to keep other people's

807
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 2: children from falling prey to the recruiters who target vulnerable teens.

808
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 2: But the government waited and waited. They watched too. I'm

809
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 2: sure we know they had undercover agents in the group.

810
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 2: But they waited over a year. They waited until more

811
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 2: attacks took place. They waited until an eighty seven year

812
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: old man was stabbed outside of his mosque. They waited

813
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 2: while more and more young men were fed heaping servings

814
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: of rotten propaganda. They waited until September of twenty twenty four,

815
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 2: a few weeks after that stabbing in Turkey. In a

816
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: piece published in Wire a few days after the indictment,

817
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 2: investigative journalist Ali Winston offers an intriguing explanation for the timing.

818
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: While most of the charges in the indictment could have

819
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: been brought at any time, things like soliciting the murder

820
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: of a federal official, disseminating information about explosives, threatening communications,

821
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: and so on, they've been doing that for years. The

822
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 2: final charge of this fifteen count indictment is a violation

823
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 2: of Chapter eighteen, Section two three, three nine a conspiracy

824
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 2: to provide material support to terrorists, and this is the

825
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: most serious charge on the indictment. This is the one

826
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 2: that could put them away forever. And this charge was

827
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 2: only made possible by a decision earlier this year by

828
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 2: the Government of the United Kingdom. In April of twenty

829
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 2: twenty four, the UK formally added the Terogram Collective to

830
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 2: its list of proscribed terrorist entities. A Home Office announcement

831
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 2: in April.

832
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 5: Reads the Terregram Collective has been prescribed as a terrorist

833
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 5: organization today after Parliament approved a draft order laid on Monday,

834
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 5: the twenty six of April. This order makes belonging to

835
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 5: the Teogram Collective or inviting support for the group a

836
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 5: criminal offense, with a potential prison sentence of fourteen years,

837
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 5: which can be handed down alongside or in place of

838
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 5: a fine. In addition, Section fifty eight makes it a

839
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 5: criminal offense for a person to collect or possess information

840
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 5: which is likely to be useful to a person committing

841
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 5: or repairing for acts of terrorism, including where an individual

842
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 5: views or accesses documents or records containing information of that kind.

843
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 5: The Telegram Collective has now been added to the list

844
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 5: of prescribed organizations in the UK alongside eighty other organizations.

845
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 2: And with that announcement, Terogram is now a foreign terrorist organization.

846
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 2: And because people died and at least one of the

847
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 2: incidents the government laid out in the indictment as an act,

848
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: the defendants insided they could go away for life. As

849
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 2: Ali Winston put it in that Wired article quote, In

850
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: other words, the US is treating terror in ways similar

851
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 2: to how it has treated Islamist terrorist organizations. Terrorism researcher

852
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 2: Seamus Hughes told Winston, quote, I would think of this

853
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: case more like an old school terrorism investigation, where you

854
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 2: have a leadership cell that pushed info to followers and

855
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:21,919
Speaker 2: radicalized them into action. Cases involving this particular charge are

856
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 2: typically those involving groups like ISIS or al Qaida. I

857
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 2: don't think we've seen this used before against white nationalist

858
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 2: domestic terror organizations. Using this legal framework against a group

859
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 2: like the Terrogram collective may signal a shift in the

860
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 2: DOJ's strategy for targeting white nationalist terrorism in the United States.

861
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 2: It's a big swing, as Hughes said, quote, it shows

862
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 2: that either the FEDS are trying to make a point

863
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: or they were very concerned about these particular actors, and

864
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 2: maybe it's both right. It was long past time to

865
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 2: do something, anything, anything at all about the most significant

866
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: network of neo Nazi terrorist propaganda on the English speaking Internet.

867
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 2: People have already died. There's every reason to believe the

868
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 2: undercover agents they had in the group knew that more

869
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 2: people would die if something didn't disrupt the organization. And

870
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 2: maybe the Justice Department is just feeling a little more

871
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 2: willing to use the tools they have to do something

872
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 2: about right wing extremism more generally. This is obviously a

873
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 2: much more seismic shift in policy. But we were just

874
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 2: talking last week about the false statements charges against a

875
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 2: soldier who allegedly lied about his extremist activities, and those

876
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: charges were unusual and perhaps indicative of a shift in

877
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: policy and strategy. I suppose it doesn't behoove me to

878
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 2: make wilder speculations than the experts are willing to make,

879
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 2: so we'll stick with what Seamus Hughes told Ally Winston.

880
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 2: A case like this had to get sign off at

881
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 2: the highest levels. Somebody in the DOJ wanted this network

882
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: shut down. When the pair were arrested earlier this month,

883
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 2: authorities searched their homes. Dallas Humber had three D printed guns,

884
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: high capacity magazines, a short barreled rifle, unregistered firearms, a

885
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 2: lot of Nazi propaganda, her own manifestos, and a notebook

886
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 2: listing the white supremacist attackers with whom she corresponds, including

887
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 2: Dylan Roof. When Matthew Allison was arrested, he was quote

888
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 2: wearing a backpack containing zip ties, duct tape, a gun, ammunition,

889
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:41,479
Speaker 2: a knife, lockpicking equipment, two phones, and a thumb drive.

890
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 2: After his arrest, Allison was advised of his rights, but

891
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 2: waived them and quickly confessed in a recorded interview to

892
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 2: engaging in the acts alleged in the indictment. The pair

893
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 2: are currently held without bond, with the government citing their

894
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 2: own statements about their willingness to die in a shootout

895
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 2: rather than be arrested, about Allison's go bag, which indicates

896
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 2: a desire to flee the country, the severity of the

897
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 2: charges which could send them to prison for the rest

898
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 2: of their lives, and their own prior statements expressing a

899
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 2: willingness to murder or to have murdered people they suspect

900
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 2: our cooperating witnesses against other Terogram members like Brendan Russell.

901
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 2: These cooperating witnesses have been given permission by the government

902
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 2: to testify in a closed court room without being named.

903
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 2: In Brandon Russell's case. For Humber and Allison, there is

904
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 2: not currently a date set for their next appearance in court,

905
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 2: and with Humber and Allison in custody, the current version

906
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 2: of the Terogram collective is dead. But what does that mean?

907
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 2: This is only one head of a hydra. Just as

908
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 2: new leaders emerged after Slovak Borough was arrested in twenty

909
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 2: twenty two, just as Brandon Russell continued to communicate with

910
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 2: Humber after his arrest in twenty twenty three, a new

911
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 2: poster will rise to take their place. Hopefully, this case

912
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 2: signals a shift in the government's approach to throwing up

913
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 2: roadblocks in the paths of aspiring Nazi terrorists. Because a

914
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 2: dildo saleswoman from California and a failed DJ from Idaho

915
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 2: may spend the rest of their lives behind bars, but

916
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 2: it's only a matter of time before a new voice

917
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: starts whispering white terror into the ears of impressionable teenage

918
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 2: boys who're desperate to die in a way that will impress,

919
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 2: four Chan posters.

920
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: Weird Little Guys is a production of cool zone Media.

921
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia

922
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,600
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923
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:44,800
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