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Speaker 1: On the beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have wenen inum? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing

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Speaker 1: it with the beck del Cast. Hello listeners, you're about

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Speaker 1: to hear an episode that we recorded live at the

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Speaker 1: Ruby in Los Angeles on the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of episodes recorded live at the Ruby in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, we are doing another one on November nine

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Speaker 1: pm and we're covering Home Alone. And this is a

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Speaker 1: show you don't want to miss because it's our last

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Speaker 1: show at that location because the Ruby is moving to

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Speaker 1: a different spot in l A. But that location has

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Speaker 1: been our home for live l A shows for over

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Speaker 1: a year, so it's very special to us and we

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Speaker 1: want you to come hang out with us there one

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Speaker 1: last time. Tickets and details are at Bechtel cast dot com.

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Speaker 1: Click on the live tab and we'll see you there.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode. Hello, thank you for coming to the

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Speaker 1: life Stow. This is the Bechtel Cast. Welcome, Welcome, you

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Speaker 1: recome to see I see some T shirts in the crowd.

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Speaker 1: I wait, I need to get I have too many

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Speaker 1: you all use situate. I'll talk. Hello, Um, I'm dressed

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Speaker 1: as Brad Brad Majors from tonight's film. I'm dresses I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I was like, it's Halloween where black, and

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Speaker 1: then I didn't have time to go to CVS to

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Speaker 1: get fishnets. But if I had, you would have been like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I get it right. So just imagine I would run

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Speaker 1: that errand I was supposed to run. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: you've got lipstick on. I think that's great. That's more

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Speaker 1: effort than I would normally demonstrate at this event. Uh so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I love you, Bradfit. It's incredible. Thank you. The

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Speaker 1: jacket the Bradfit. The jacket isn't quite right, and I

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Speaker 1: apologize for that, but don't apologize. That's right. Women apologize

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Speaker 1: too much. And yeah, we're putting it. I've been saying

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Speaker 1: it for years. Women need to stop apologizing for their

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Speaker 1: Brad cosplay. They really do. You're doing great. Thank you anyway.

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Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Dronte, my name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: and we thank you. We are the Bechtel Cast. We

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Speaker 1: talk about the representation of women in film and how

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Speaker 1: it's usually pretty abysmal. We use the Bechtel test as

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Speaker 1: a jumping off point, and that is a media metric

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Speaker 1: also sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, that requires that

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Speaker 1: two female identifying characters with names talk to each other

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Speaker 1: about something other than a man. Does it normally have

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Speaker 1: an in movie three to one? No, we've got a

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Speaker 1: doozy tonight. You know, there's a real like shaky hand.

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Speaker 1: Hard to say because I think the things that I mean.

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Speaker 1: And spoiler alert too if anyone is a new listener

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Speaker 1: on this episode. Uh, this show has very little to

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Speaker 1: do with the actual Bechdel test, but in terms of

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Speaker 1: determining it for this movie, it's very hard because there's

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Speaker 1: molt there's I think three or four layers into determining,

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Speaker 1: and then there's also like a consent question that has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with gender that you're just like there watching,

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Speaker 1: So it's unclear. This is a wild one where we're

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Speaker 1: very excited and we've been getting this request forever. Um

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Speaker 1: and tonight's tonight. Tonight's the night on it by round

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Speaker 1: of applause. Who has seen the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show? Wow,

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Speaker 1: I think it's done your homework alright, looking carefully, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is anyone not seen it. Clap clap, Yes, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we are not going to do what Rocky Horror does,

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Speaker 1: which is humiliate you if you've never seen the movie.

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Speaker 1: It's fine. Not everyone can see every movie. Isn't that

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Speaker 1: a fun community aspect where if you haven't done what

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Speaker 1: everyone else has done, you're absolutely humiliated, Uh, in front

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Speaker 1: of strangers. I think that's a very chill entry point

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Speaker 1: to a community. Definitely, that's great, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: brave of you to to show up to an event

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Speaker 1: about a movie you have not seen. Yes, good enough, Yes,

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Speaker 1: we love that. Okay. So we are talking about Rocky

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Speaker 1: Horror Picture Show tonight and we have a guest with us,

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Speaker 1: returning guest to the show. We love her. Yes, you

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Speaker 1: might remember her from our Scream episode. She is a

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Speaker 1: comedian and a writer for Nurdist and ThunderCats Roar on

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Speaker 1: Cartoon Network. It's Joan Ford. Hi. I've always wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a Halloween tradition and now I am one. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: welcome back, Thanks for having me. So. I mean, since

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Speaker 1: we're commenting unfits an incredible seemed Halloween fit, I feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I decided, I'm like, I'm I'm backstage decided, I'm like Halloween, Janet.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is what Janet. She wouldn't get

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Speaker 1: a full costume, but she'd wear like a cute dress

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Speaker 1: with like skeletons on it. Like, yeah, I know native,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting the spirit of it. So, John, what's your

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Speaker 1: history relationship with this iconic film? Okay? I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: like I was like in my like early like ten

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Speaker 1: eleven years, um, you know, the early, the early, the

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Speaker 1: tens and eleven, whatever you call it. That was the

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Speaker 1: early ones when like I think it was, this was

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Speaker 1: just hitting its twentieth anniversary. I remember like Fox was

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Speaker 1: like playing it. It was like Fox is making like

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Speaker 1: a big deal of like after Herman's Head, It's time

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Speaker 1: for where the first network broadcast of of the Rocky

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Speaker 1: Horror Picture Show, And like I did not know what

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Speaker 1: this thing was. I had kind of heard inklings of

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Speaker 1: it like as a as a like cult movie, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know what it was. And I remember

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Speaker 1: seeing it for the first time like on that broadcast

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Speaker 1: and being kind of like transfixed by it but not

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Speaker 1: quite knowing why. Like I remember going back to my

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Speaker 1: like Catholic grade school the next day and telling everyone

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Speaker 1: about like and there's this he's like a transvestite. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't know quite what I was saying, but it

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Speaker 1: got me in trouble um. But yeah, I was just

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Speaker 1: like this is so I was like, I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is very cool. Like I thought this I had

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Speaker 1: discovered a cool thing, which I had, but not many

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Speaker 1: people everyone agreed, but I was like, this is cool,

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Speaker 1: Like he's a transdestite. It's a cool thing, right, And

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Speaker 1: everyone's like and uh and yes, that was like my

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Speaker 1: first memory of it. And then it kind of like

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Speaker 1: it's a thing that I mean, you know, I was

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Speaker 1: a closeted, queer, white theater kid in suburban America, so

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Speaker 1: it kept creeping up in my life. I remember once

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Speaker 1: like I got home from like a thing and my

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Speaker 1: dad was like, hey, like I taped Rocky Horror Picture

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Speaker 1: Show for you off of Comedy Central, and like by

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Speaker 1: that time, I like internalized that it wasn't something I

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Speaker 1: was supposed to like. So I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: like that thing. I don't want to watch that thing.

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Speaker 1: Why did you take that for me? And I think

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Speaker 1: that's when my dad like stopped being like, well, no

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Speaker 1: longer am I going to like try to involve myself

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Speaker 1: in their queer identity. That's it. I'm giving up. I

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Speaker 1: turned them off to it and strike and it was

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Speaker 1: one strike yes, um, and then yeah and then I

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Speaker 1: I went to the shadow cast in like high school,

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Speaker 1: and then in college and again when I moved out here.

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Speaker 1: So it's just a thing that's been like ever a

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Speaker 1: present thing in my life, like from a very early age.

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Speaker 1: The tens in the eleven Yes, the tens and elevens. Yes,

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Speaker 1: a bottle of them, Jamie, how about you. I got

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Speaker 1: into Rocky Horror. I think around high school. I know

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Speaker 1: the first time I went. I was like it was

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Speaker 1: my freshman year in high school. My mom was very

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Speaker 1: into Rocky Horror. Um the there everyone's laughing because maybe

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Speaker 1: some people have already seen the pick. But she tweeted

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Speaker 1: at the betel Cast account of her, at age seventeen,

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Speaker 1: wearing really not many clothes. That was her. That was

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Speaker 1: my mom. I thought that was you maybe No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I there the pictures of me are far less cool

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Speaker 1: than the ones that were tweeted. I'm wearing far more clothes. No,

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Speaker 1: they're my mom like in because you know, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in like a suburban area as well, where queer

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Speaker 1: community was kind of scant to be found. And my

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Speaker 1: my mom when she was younger, like loved going. She

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Speaker 1: went every single month. She was a stand She was there,

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Speaker 1: she knew it all, she loved wearing Leo tarts in public.

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Speaker 1: She just was there. So she was like really encouraging

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Speaker 1: me to go. When I was a young teen and

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Speaker 1: I went, I went with my cousin. I think we

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Speaker 1: went maybe like once a year when I was in

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Speaker 1: high school to the West Bridgewater showing. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: all my Westbridgewater heads listening to this, it's a very

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Speaker 1: small theater, but a lot of enthusiasm. And then I

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Speaker 1: think I went like once or twice more in college

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Speaker 1: and then when I lived here. But I've I've been

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Speaker 1: like I didn't want to say, like five or six times. Okay,

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Speaker 1: very good. What about you, Caitlin. I've never been to

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Speaker 1: a live screening. I've seen this movie probably only a

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Speaker 1: handful of times. I saw it for the first time

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Speaker 1: in college when I was getting one of two film

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Speaker 1: degrees that I would eventually have. But I I like,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was like cool and campy and subversive.

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Speaker 1: But you you may know this about me. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a huge fan of musicals, although this is one that

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Speaker 1: I tolerate quite a bit more than than others. But

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Speaker 1: for me, it comes down to story and the story

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Speaker 1: of the because again, I do have a master's degree

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Speaker 1: in screenwriting from Boston University that I simply hate to mention.

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Speaker 1: It's not what one would call yeah, not a not

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Speaker 1: a classic three act structure. I think that there's because

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Speaker 1: all three of us have watched it multiple times in

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Speaker 1: preparation for this, and between the three of us we

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Speaker 1: really tried to place together like, oh, I think that

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Speaker 1: they maybe thought they were foreshadowing there, yeah, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: when do we find out these characters are aliens? Um.

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Speaker 1: This was the first time I watched in and completely

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Speaker 1: realized Brad and Janet have absolutely no bearing on the

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Speaker 1: actual like plot of the film. They could be a

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Speaker 1: raised from the story and the film every the film

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Speaker 1: would end the exact same way it ended. Yes, if

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Speaker 1: they had never arrived, they had never arrived them even

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Speaker 1: like them arriving as an inciting incident. If we're talking

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Speaker 1: your degree and thank you so much, makes it doesn't incite.

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Speaker 1: It used to incite what was going to happen anyway, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: it incites nothing like the party was going to happen,

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Speaker 1: the brutal murder of famous rock star meat Load was

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Speaker 1: going to happen. And they're not even in that they

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Speaker 1: are audience circuits in the most literal way, and that

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Speaker 1: they are just audience members who I get to have

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Speaker 1: sex with the with the main character at one point. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's the best audience circuits. I like to think that

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Speaker 1: Brad and Janet inspire riff Raff and Magenta to rise

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Speaker 1: up against their bourgeois oppressor and take over. Right the end, well,

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Speaker 1: here's Mike. But I was getting a lot of like

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Speaker 1: Cerce and Jamie Lanister energy from them because they keeping like,

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Speaker 1: we're siblings, but we're kissing and you're like, let's not

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Speaker 1: go here, like but then at the end they're like, no,

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Speaker 1: we are still siblings who are fucking. But the twist

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Speaker 1: is we're alien siblings who are fucking. You're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's a twist. I don't know who you

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Speaker 1: get who you was right? Well with that? Should we

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Speaker 1: get into the story that the words story and plot

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Speaker 1: loosely for this movie, but here it is the three

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Speaker 1: of us will we'll do our fare at Truly, if

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Speaker 1: anyone in the crowd has exposition some little seedling that

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Speaker 1: was planted that we totally missed, let us know. It's

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Speaker 1: very possible. Maybe we're bad viewers. Yeah, you guys, educate us.

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Speaker 1: We're blaming ourselves. I know we just talked about it.

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Speaker 1: But I apologize for what I what's about to happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm already sorry for it. I think this is gonna

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Speaker 1: go great. Okay, okay, okay, thank you, Brat, you're welcome.

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Speaker 1: So Janet which is Susan Surrandon's character, and Brad played

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Speaker 1: by Barry Boss. He was on Spin City Brave. I've

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Speaker 1: never seen it, but he say break camp. Yes. They

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Speaker 1: are at their friend's wedding and the two of them

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Speaker 1: get engaged after the wedding. It's unclear whether they want

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Speaker 1: to get engaged. They definitely think they should get engaged

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Speaker 1: right right, and then they sing a song about being

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Speaker 1: engaged or the best songs in it. I mean, damnit, Janet,

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Speaker 1: good stuff. This is when it's revealed that Susan Sarandon

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Speaker 1: has a serviceable high school soprano. Bad they're not helping her,

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Speaker 1: like it's just not her it's clear that she's an alto.

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Speaker 1: Then we cut to a scene where they are driving

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Speaker 1: in the dark and stormy night to visit their friend Dr.

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Speaker 1: Everett Scott, as as we all do right after we

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Speaker 1: get engaged. The first thing, the first people you tell

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Speaker 1: after you get engage, you're a high school science teacher,

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Speaker 1: not your parents. That's a fun thing to imagine, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: what if I just went to Mr grinds Head. And

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Speaker 1: they're traveling on what turns out to be a dead

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Speaker 1: end road, and then they get a flat tire, so

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Speaker 1: they get out of the car and walk to this

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Speaker 1: castle that they had passed a few miles back, and

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Speaker 1: the light is on in the castle, so they figure

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Speaker 1: they can go in and use their phone to call

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Speaker 1: for help, and then a spooky looking person answers the door.

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Speaker 1: The writer of the movie Riff, rafted by Richard O'Brien.

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Speaker 1: Richard O'Brien, who comes back time and time again, is

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Speaker 1: a person who wants to be taken very seriously as

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Speaker 1: an actor, but he created Rocky Horror Picture Show and

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Speaker 1: he plays riff Raff and he answers the door and

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Speaker 1: Janet Brad here's some commotion and Riff Raff tells them

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Speaker 1: about a social event that the Master is hosting que

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Speaker 1: the iconic time warp song which Joan mentioned last night

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Speaker 1: everyone from their youth, yes, yes, oh yes, I mean

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Speaker 1: my sense memory of that scene is that there's literally

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Speaker 1: like a hundred people at dance hall and we watched

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Speaker 1: last night and when there's like maybe twelve, I was like,

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Speaker 1: why memorial asked, memories are so fall Memories are memories

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Speaker 1: are lies? There's twelve l a casting people like stumbling

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Speaker 1: their way into they've all kind of learned the dances.

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Speaker 1: They clearly like, yeah, they had a day for rehearsal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have closed shots on like the three or four

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Speaker 1: who learned it, and then the rest there you just

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Speaker 1: have fun, do something and does move to the music.

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Speaker 1: It later becomes clear that there were days that they

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Speaker 1: could have award for those same extras to come back,

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Speaker 1: and days where they clearly couldn't afford not to jumphead

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Speaker 1: but the floor show, like there's no audience for the

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Speaker 1: floor show, and it's like you've written like people who

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Speaker 1: have the whole job in the movie is just to

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Speaker 1: watch what's going on, and they're not there for the

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Speaker 1: like big finale show. It wasn't in the budget, but

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Speaker 1: the song does slap and that's what's good lap. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: so there's all these like suddenly there's a bunch of

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Speaker 1: like cookie people and they're all singing and dancing, and

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Speaker 1: among them are Magenta and Colombia. Uh. And then Janet

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Speaker 1: is like, let's get out of here. It's weird and scary,

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Speaker 1: and just then Dr Frankenforter shows up Tim Curry and

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Speaker 1: the role of a lifetime. Yes, I want to take

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Speaker 1: I want to take elocution lessons from him from this movie,

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Speaker 1: like just pronounce everywhere the way he does. So I

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Speaker 1: did some Tim Curry diving on this one. And Terry

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Speaker 1: Gross I mean an icon and her own right, Uh, Terry,

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Speaker 1: Like she asked him, like, you know, how did you

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Speaker 1: develop this party? He's like, well, I was trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out, like I guess that, like Frankenfurter was American

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Speaker 1: accented for a while, Cockney accented for a while. And

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Speaker 1: then Tim Curry was like, but what if Frankenfurter sounded

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Speaker 1: like the Queen? And that was that was why why

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Speaker 1: the credre sounds that way? And it's terrific. It's a

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Speaker 1: great choice, and Frank Confurter sings a song about uh

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Speaker 1: and I feel weird using these words, but being a

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Speaker 1: sweet transvestite from trans sexual Transylvania. And that song also slaps. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it absolutely dies and the performances incredible. Oh yes, And

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Speaker 1: then Janet and Brad are invited upstairs and there was

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Speaker 1: the castle has an la vater. Yes, the castle has

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Speaker 1: an elevator. They're wet, clothes are removed, so now they're

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Speaker 1: just in their underwear for a little while. And Dr Frankenfurter,

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Speaker 1: who is Jenna ever get her clothes back? I think

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Speaker 1: they get robes. They get very silky, definitely gets her

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Speaker 1: clothes back less so than Brad. She's in her underwear

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Speaker 1: for I would say the majority of the yes is correct.

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Speaker 1: But Frankenfurter is a mad scientist and he unveils his

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Speaker 1: latest creation, which is a person named Rocky Horror. Get

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Speaker 1: it and Rockies bandages are removed, and then he sings

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Speaker 1: a song. I mean like they're just song after so

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Speaker 1: many songs, I would say that Rocky Horror, the actor

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Speaker 1: playing Rocky Horror tries to sing a song in this

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Speaker 1: they hired a model. Yes, it's a lot of like

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Speaker 1: screen singing. Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot of high school energy.

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Speaker 1: Dr Frankenfurter is very pleased with how Rocky turned out

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Speaker 1: because he's very muscular and very diplomatic way to put that. Yet, well,

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Speaker 1: he seems to have created Rocky mostly so that he

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Speaker 1: can have sex with Rocky. Yes, and then Eddie meat

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Speaker 1: Loaf shows up, and then we're like, hold on meat Loaf,

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Speaker 1: and then we pause and we're like pre Bad out

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Speaker 1: of Hell or a post Bad out of Hell, pre

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Speaker 1: pre he's not famous yet this one because I was

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Speaker 1: just trying to figure out, well, we were all trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out where's the majority of this budget coming from. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like it was post Bad out of Hell.

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Speaker 1: A lot of it will be going towards meat Low,

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Speaker 1: but it's pre so we just don't know. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: anyone knows, like what you had to pay for it

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Speaker 1: from meat Loaf cameo in n let us know. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it was super high. I was like Tim Curry,

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Speaker 1: Susan Surrandon and meat Loaf, we're all like pre being

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Speaker 1: very famous in this movie. So we just corners were

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Speaker 1: cut unclear wild the budget was only a little over

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Speaker 1: a million dollars, right, right, So I mean it's a

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Speaker 1: billion dollars. I don't know, I'm just like a million dollar.

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Speaker 1: Frank Confreter's makeup alone cost five hundred thousand dollars big,

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Speaker 1: probably big, like Sequin budget too. Okay. So then Eddie

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Speaker 1: is there. He's a biker. He's a biker, He's got

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Speaker 1: a big gash on his head. He sings a song.

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Speaker 1: He's Mr. Lobotomy. It took me forever to figure out

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Speaker 1: what was happening there, but he loves rock and roll.

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Speaker 1: He sings a song about it, and then seemingly out

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Speaker 1: of nowhere, Frank Confreter chops him with an axe and

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Speaker 1: kills him. And we're like, oh, surely this will come back,

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Speaker 1: and and for a long time it doesn't. And then

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Speaker 1: Frank Conferter goes off to have sex with his creation, Rocky,

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Speaker 1: And meanwhile, Brad and Janet are shown to separate rooms

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Speaker 1: to sleep him. And then someone who Janet thinks is

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Speaker 1: Brad comes in and starts kissing her, but it's actually Frankenfurter,

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Speaker 1: in a scene that we will talk about, don't you worry.

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Speaker 1: And then Frankenfurter does the same thing to Brad in

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Speaker 1: another scene when we will also talk about and then

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Speaker 1: meanwhile Rocky has gotten loose from his chains because well

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Speaker 1: because in that Rocky is a prisoner of Frankenfurter. But

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Speaker 1: then the reason that he is I still haven't made

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Speaker 1: heads retails with this is because he's taunted by a candelabra, yes,

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Speaker 1: being held by riff Raff, and Riff is like, hey,

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Speaker 1: candle labra and Rockie's like, no, candle labra, and then

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Speaker 1: he is scay. I was like, that is what breaks him? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's being killed prisoner gothic lighting. No thank you. He's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm out of here, and he shimmies down the fire pole.

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Speaker 1: It was like, why was why was riff Raff taunting

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Speaker 1: him with that candelabra. I simply don't know. I don't know. Well,

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Speaker 1: everyone pour into our d m is telling us why

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Speaker 1: we're so dumb. Realizing the candelabra taunt. Rocky does not

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Speaker 1: get very far and then Janet finds him and she

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Speaker 1: is extremely horny now, so she sings a song about

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Speaker 1: how she wants him to have sex with her, and

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Speaker 1: then they have sex, and I'm gonna say I that's

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Speaker 1: my most that that song slaps, that's my favorite song. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and we get to see the ever so rare female

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Speaker 1: orgasm on screen. Oh, is that what happens? Caitlyn will

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Speaker 1: unpack this at a letter. I think it's implied that

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Speaker 1: that's what happened at the end, and then the red

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Speaker 1: silk sheet is pulled over her, like don't look at it,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's like, oh, that's why we're here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: good to know. Yeah. Then Dr Everett Scott shows up

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Speaker 1: and Frankenfurter considers Doctor's got to be a rival mad

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Speaker 1: signed like a rival scientist, classic, right, Yeah, And Frankenfurter

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Speaker 1: thinks that Dr Scott sent Brad to the castle to

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Speaker 1: spy on Frankenfurter, but the reason he actually come was

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Speaker 1: to find his nephew Eddie, who saw nephew and now

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Speaker 1: he's dead. It's ti together very naturally. We're like, this

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Speaker 1: is not German scientist never love ah. Yes, And then

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Speaker 1: Frankenfurter and Brad discovered Janet and Rocky post coitus and

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Speaker 1: I guess po orgasm and they're not happy about. But

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Speaker 1: then they all have dinner together and during the tense dinner,

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Speaker 1: it's tense during dinner, we find out that Frankenfurter and

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Speaker 1: company are aliens. Over an hour into the movie. By

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Speaker 1: the way, everyone who lives in this castle is an alien.

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Speaker 1: Also the castles of Spaceship Yeah. And then Dr Scott

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Speaker 1: finds out that his nephew Eddie was killed and like

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Speaker 1: the reason that Eddie had a gash on his head.

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Speaker 1: We find out eventually that Frankenfurter removed part of Eddie's

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Speaker 1: brain to put into Rocky's head. So now we understand

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Speaker 1: meat Love's head scar clue shadow foreshadowing for a payoff

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Speaker 1: that never comes, or it's like, oh, okay, so his

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Speaker 1: brain was cut in half. Does that have bury on

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Speaker 1: future events? It's just stated and you're like, oh, that

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Speaker 1: sucks for meat Love. Oh he's dead, I guess yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and they ate him, so he has bigger fish

390
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Speaker 1: to fry in this situation. Really, it's so confusing. And

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Speaker 1: then Frank Confurter turns Brad Janet, Doctor Scott, Columbia, and

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Speaker 1: Rocky into stone statues because he's had enough of them.

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Speaker 1: I guess, I'm not, I don't know. And then he

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Speaker 1: puts on a show featuring the statues, which then turned

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Speaker 1: back into the people, and then riff Raff and Magenta

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Speaker 1: show up and they're like, hey, Frankenfurter, we're going back

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Speaker 1: home to our home planet. They're in space outfits now, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they're going back to their home planet in the

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Speaker 1: Transylvania Galaxy. And then Frankenfurter sings a song about how

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Speaker 1: happy he is to be going home, but riff Raff

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Speaker 1: is like, you misunderstood. It's only me and Magenta who

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Speaker 1: are going back, and then he shoots Cerci and Jamie

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Speaker 1: and they're like, no one is any thing. We're gonna

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00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: kill everyone who isn't directly related to us. Because then

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Speaker 1: frankin Fur gets shot with a laser gun and Rocky

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Speaker 1: tries to save him, but they both die. And then

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Speaker 1: riff Half is like, hey, Brad and Janet and Dr Scott,

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Speaker 1: you should get out of here now because we're about

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Speaker 1: to leave on our castle spaceship. And then they leave

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Speaker 1: and the castle blasts off into space and that's everyone's

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Speaker 1: like the weird night. Also the story that like, there

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Speaker 1: are cuts to the narrator who is like, uh something,

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Speaker 1: he's I don't know who he is. The narrator I

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Speaker 1: believe in the is like build is like the criminologist

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Speaker 1: or something. So yeah, this is like a it was

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Speaker 1: the first true crime podcast. It was like it was

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Speaker 1: just recount. He was recounting the story this true crime

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Speaker 1: that happened. So that's the story of Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's so fun. I feel like even the biggest fans

420
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: of this movie would struggle to explain the plot. I

421
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: think they're like, the first half hour is amazing, and

422
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: then by then, hopefully you're drunk. So there's a lot

423
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: to unpack here. Yes, let's let's get into it. Where

424
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,719
Speaker 1: shall we start? Gosh, well do we want to start?

425
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: I suppose was like the cultural impact this movie has had. Yeah,

426
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: I mean there, I've done a lot of a lot

427
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: of research outside because I mean, there's a lot to

428
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: talk about about what happens in plot, but the main

429
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: legacy of this movie is the subculture that has popped

430
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,959
Speaker 1: up around it. And so I did a fairer amount

431
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: of research because I've gone to see Rocky Horror Picture

432
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: Show in theaters and number of times, but never I

433
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: was yeah, of a like so young when I started

434
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: seeing it that I didn't really question the culture around it,

435
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: and then continue to not do. So, Yeah, it's like

436
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: I probably the last time I went to a a

437
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: stage show or a shadow cast of it was maybe

438
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: like eight or nine years ago, and um, yeah, I

439
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: guess I didn't. I didn't know back then the shouting

440
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: slut a hundred times at the screen, which was bad, right,

441
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: So so that is like the main thing that people

442
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: take issue with. So if you're not familiar with the

443
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: culture that surrounds live screenings at the Rocky Hard Picture Show,

444
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: there's a very well documented and kind of like unchanging

445
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: sequence of things that people yell at the screen, props

446
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: that they bring, There's like stuff that like there's forks

447
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: thrown at one point, there's water that's sprayed, and it's

448
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: like a very ritualistic thing. And some of the rituals

449
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: are very like cookie and fun, and other of the

450
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: rituals have not aged very well, such as any time

451
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: that and Its character is on screen, you're supposed to

452
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: scream slut at the screen, even though she has sex

453
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: no more than anyone else in the movie, like Brad.

454
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: She and Brad stray about from each other from each

455
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: other and about equal announce like, and yet he is

456
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: not referred to as a slot never Yeah, and and

457
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: so there is some interesting, I think conversation that I

458
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: will just admittedly just scratch the surface here on the

459
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: conversation around this culture because it is like an interesting,

460
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: complicated legacy for a movie that I mean, certainly in

461
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: my area, and I think a lot of areas in

462
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: America in particular are an entry way into queer culture

463
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: and a very clear place to go that if you

464
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: are if you want to be involved, like it's a

465
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: good place to start. Yeah, it's it's just kind of

466
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: a like it's it's a very like almost like Mickey

467
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: Mouse version of like of like queer culture, which is appropriate.

468
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: Disney owns it now, Um right yeah yeah, yeah, um

469
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: think about that. Um but um, Columbia Ware is making

470
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: Mouse years halfway through it, so like so they are

471
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: they knew what's gonna happen four years later? Um, but yeah,

472
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: it is like I mean the fact, like I think

473
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: back on like that story told the fact that my

474
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: dad was like, you know, hey, like I recorded this

475
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: off TV for you tells me that you know, it

476
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: is like and I knew he knew what it was,

477
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: but it's just like it's just this very like safe

478
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: like it's still like challenges you and is inviting you

479
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: into a kind of like new, weird, fun world, but

480
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: it's like this it's kind of like it's the safety

481
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: version of that. Right. It seems to be a lot

482
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: of people like step one into like like I have

483
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: questions about my sexuality or this is just something that

484
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: is this is a community that is cool and interesting

485
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: to me and like let's explore it. It's a lot

486
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: of people step one because it's accessible to younger people

487
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 1: as well, And so I don't want to neg this

488
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: community on the whole because there's a lot about it

489
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: that is absolutely wonderful and like necessary, especially in places

490
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: where queer communities aren't as accessible. Um, I mean there's

491
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: a there's a lot of value in like having media

492
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: like like this movie that's like palatable for you know

493
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: young well Urban Night it's like, well it's very you

494
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: know like and will will hollow the word well it's

495
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: very problematic, let's say. Um, it is a lot of

496
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: people's like first exposure to queer community, and it was

497
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: I think one of my first involvement like and just

498
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: it was like there was literally the g s A

499
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: at my high school and you could go to Rocky Horror,

500
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: and that was really all you could do, and so

501
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: it was like it was important. But that said, there

502
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: is a lot in the community that has been challenged

503
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: and questioned over the years that I think is very interesting.

504
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: The yelling slut at Janet, I think it is the

505
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: most obvious, but there's also I mean there's like lines

506
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: I looked through just kind of the stuff I'd forgotten

507
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: about what people yell at the screen of when Janet says, oh,

508
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: I was saving myself, and the audience will reply for

509
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: what a rainy day, Look outside, bitch, it's pouring, Like

510
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: they're just constantly yelling ship at Janet um And so

511
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: I I was researching there was some great stuff written

512
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: about because another component of the Rocky Horror experience is

513
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: that there's a shadow cast acting out the movie in

514
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: front of you. So there's like local actors and they

515
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: often have like a pretty cult following. They become like

516
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: celebrities within this like small niche community. I mean, I

517
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: had the biggest crush on whomever was playing Rocky Horror

518
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: in West Bridgewater in the late two thousands. I was like,

519
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: I loved them, but it was I was they were

520
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: like a local celeb, and I was like, I can't approach,

521
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: you know. And so there is like this untouchable, like

522
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: kind of cool quality UM. And there's been a lot

523
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: written and and interviewed about people like this. So I

524
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: I first wanted to share a few quotes from a

525
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: former director and cast member from the eighties and nineties

526
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: who was involved in Rocky Horror in the Houston area. UM.

527
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: His name is Jeff Rowner. This was written a couple

528
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: of years ago, just kind of reflecting on his experience

529
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: and the Rocky Horror cast. He's a siss head man,

530
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: and he sort of wrote a column about UM reflecting

531
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: on it years later. So a few quotes from there.

532
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: He says, quote, it's not as fun as it used

533
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: to be watching Rocky after years of being a media

534
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: critic has definitely worn the shine off the film and

535
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: the cold experience that grew up around it isn't really

536
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: much better. Take screaming slit whenever anyone says Janet's name

537
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: is arguably the single most basic call line in Rocky

538
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: Horror history, alongside screaming asshole. When anyone says Brad, it's

539
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: basically Rocky one on one for divergence, which we'll get to. Uh,

540
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: so they can get used to the whole talking of

541
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 1: the screen thing. I remember when I was a cast director,

542
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: we got a complaint letter sent to the theater. The

543
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 1: main gist was that having hundreds of people screaming slut

544
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: was kind of funked up, kind of uh I with

545
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: the righteous indignation only a twenty year old white dude

546
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: can muster through a fit. How dare they besmirge a

547
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: traditional part of the experience. How they no appreciation for

548
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: the culture of the thing? How they know respect for

549
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: the unique cinematic experience that was rocky Looking back at

550
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: it now, I sounded like a fucking gamer gator. I

551
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: sounded like every other aggrieved son of privilege beating his

552
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: chest because his toys made other people uncomfortable. It's a

553
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: weirdly conservative mindset for something that was supposed to be

554
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: about breaking boundaries. A lot of the people I ran

555
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: with considered offense to be the whole point of the enterprise,

556
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: which is kind of bizarre for a film whose main

557
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: tagline is don't dream it, be it. So that was

558
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: one one perspective on Just like someone who was very

559
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: deeply involved in the culture and then was questioning his

560
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: own attitudes towards it. Oh, and then he goes on

561
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: to say, and then I have a please bear with me,

562
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: anyone there's this is a very deeply in trance community.

563
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: So he goes on to say, quote, a friend of

564
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 1: mine once said that Rocky was LGBT cosplayed for straight people.

565
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: And that is definitely a sentiment I understand now. It's

566
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: less of a boundary breaker and more of a chance

567
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: for the comfortable to dip their toes in their perception

568
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: of gay culture. Don't get me wrong, I loved being there. Hell,

569
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: the first LGBT people I ever met were there, which

570
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: is not surprising since I got my start back in

571
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: when Houston was still sporting anti gave vice laws, and

572
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: there weren't there. There just weren't a lot of places

573
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: LGBT people could go and be themselves. It feels like

574
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,959
Speaker 1: an artifact to be appreciated for its historical value more

575
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,479
Speaker 1: for than its continued cultural relevance. It's basically the South

576
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: Park of Holt Films, and that what it had to

577
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 1: say has long since been said by better voices. So

578
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: that was one perspective of a former cast member. Um

579
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: and then there was a writer, Lindsay King Miller, who

580
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: interviewed a number of current Rocky Horror Picture Show cast

581
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: members just last year who first shared their own experience

582
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: that I'd be curious. I mean when when I was

583
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: going to and we were just talking about this backstage,

584
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: Like I look back on going to the Rocky Horror

585
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: Picture Show generally positively, and it's like a fun experience.

586
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: But even so, there is that culture around the idea

587
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: of like if you're a quote unquote virgin going to

588
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 1: the show, or if it's your first time going, there

589
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: is a lot of pressure put on you too. I mean,

590
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: there were accounts in this story which was published by

591
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: them last year about people in certain areas who were

592
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: asked to flash the audience because it was their first

593
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,439
Speaker 1: time going to Rocky Horror. I remember when I went

594
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: for the first time, they were trying to convince people

595
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: to kiss on stage if they were virgins, you know, virgins.

596
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: But also I was fourteen, and I remember telling the

597
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: person I was like, oh, this is my cousin, and

598
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: you know, like I was there with my cousin and

599
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: being fourteen, and and it just wasn't even something I

600
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: even thought about until I was reading these other accounts

601
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: of like, oh yeah, I remember having to like, you know,

602
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: kind of hang on to my cousin and be like, oh,

603
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: we gotta, you know, look at for each other. And

604
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 1: so I just want to share a little bit from

605
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: Lindsay's story. They didn't interview One of the most quote

606
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: sorry journalism, okay quote. One of the most visible faces

607
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: of the movement for a safer Rocky Horror Picture Show

608
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: is New York City cast member Jackson Tory Bart, aged

609
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: twenty three, who started attending shadow cast performances at the

610
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: Rocky Horror as a teenager, and Jackson says, quote, what

611
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: I found there was a place to explore and express

612
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: my non binary gender as it began to take shape,

613
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: and lived truer in my queer identity. And then Jackson

614
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: later joins the New York City Rocky Horror Picture Show

615
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: cast and says that quote, upon interacting with the wider community,

616
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: I was surprised to find leadership dominated by siss gender

617
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: straight people, most often men. Unquote. They realized quickly that

618
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: the Rocky Horror subculture was far from immune to the

619
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: homophobia and transphobia from which it was supposed to be

620
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: a refuge. Jackson says, quote, I will never forget being

621
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: told that my gender was fake and invalid by a

622
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: middle aged sciss man and of course at heels and

623
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: garters unquote. Lindsay also interviews another cast member named Cassia,

624
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: who is a member of the r k O Army

625
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: cast alongside Jackson in New York. Cassia goes on to say, quote,

626
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: I had people calling me a cunt, saying I was

627
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: oblit to society, threatening to sue me, threatening to try

628
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: to get me kicked off my cast, spreading gossip about

629
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: me unquote when they attended a Rocky Horror convention, and

630
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: so whenever an allegation would come forward about a Rocky

631
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: Horror cast member, uh quote, Cassia, already familiar with potential repercussions,

632
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: was ready to support them and help call out their abusers.

633
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: Although Jackson and Cassia say they have faced backlash from

634
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: name calling to threats of legal action for turning a

635
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: spotlight on predators who use Rocky Horror as a hunting ground,

636
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: they have also been met with gratitude and support from

637
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: the community. Quote. Not everyone in the cast is as

638
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: loud about this as we are Cis Cassia, but everyone

639
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: cares a lot about this issue and what we are

640
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: trying to do unquote. So even within the Rocky horror community,

641
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: there has been of a fair amount of pushback in

642
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: recent years to be more accepting. And I think that

643
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: a lot of this comes up in the seventies nous

644
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: that this move be as routed in in terms of

645
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: just like seeking consent and considering the age of audience

646
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: members and and and homophobia and transphobia that just spiral out. Yeah,

647
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I think that we are the

648
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: three of us watched it last night, and I think,

649
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: I mean, we were all pretty taking it because I

650
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: would say, like this is last night was probably one

651
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: of the first times I like watched watched the just

652
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: the movie as a movie and you know, um, and

653
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: not that I would have been making this call like

654
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: ten years ago, but seeing the scene where like the

655
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: two scenes in a row where Frankenfort just kind of

656
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: like you know, pulls a like Revenge of the Nerds

657
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: to like be with both of them is like really

658
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: like gross, Like it's really gross. And I mean, I

659
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: think you're right, it's that kind of you know, it's

660
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: it's a. It's there's something like a little bully ish

661
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: to it, like like everything you're describing like just it's

662
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: just these like bully undertones and then I don't know

663
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: that they're I think you're right, and seeing like those

664
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: things they exist like within the film to an extent. Right, Yeah,

665
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: it's interesting. I mean it's like I think there's definitely

666
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: a lot of discussion to be had, and it is

667
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: such a vast cult following that it's like from region

668
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 1: to region. I'm sure that the like the following around

669
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: it differs, but but it is. It was interesting too.

670
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like it is generally painted as

671
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: like such a friendly and all encompassing, you know, open

672
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: space and then to hear that of course, like as

673
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: we've found out so many times that even these spaces

674
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: that were supposedly designed with openness in mind have this

675
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: insidious nature to them. Yeah, that's the thing. Well, speaking

676
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 1: of the director or the creator, yes, let's talk about creator,

677
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: Richard O'Brien, Yes, um, yeah, I mean Richard O'Brien was

678
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: like on record fairly recently, i think, like within the

679
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: last like two months as saying that he, uh, he

680
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: does not believe that like he does trans women are

681
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: not women. This essentially it was the extent of a

682
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: sentiment that a trans woman will always be like a

683
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: man in address, like it's it's all what I'm I

684
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: don't have to write down because it's all like the

685
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: best the you know, the turkey best of um um.

686
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: But it's and it's and and and he does say,

687
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: you know, like I consider myself like a third like

688
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: the third gender. I think that's a real thing, but

689
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: like transit trans people are not a real thing. And

690
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: it's like wow, way to like like gender is just

691
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: as fluid as you needed to be and goes no further. Yeah,

692
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: like I and like I don't know, but it's it

693
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: was like genuinely dishearm. It was genuinely sad, like because

694
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: not a huge part, but Rocky Horror was definitely a

695
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: part of my you know, kind of figuring myself, that

696
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: journey of figuring myself out. And I think, you know,

697
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: I was watching Laver Cox talk about her because she

698
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 1: played frankn Furder in the Two Sons two sixteen version,

699
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: and she talked about how, you know, she she's known

700
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people who Yeah, Rocky Horror was the

701
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: start of their journey into you know, to figure out

702
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: who they were. Uh So, so I don't know, Like

703
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: I think of it as like it's like fucking like

704
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: Santa Claus telling you there's no Santa Claus. It's like

705
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: it's like Santa Claus like shows up and he's like,

706
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm not real and then he disappears, and you're like,

707
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: what the fuss what my brains to think about this? Um?

708
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's it's confusing

709
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: because I didn't realize this until very recently when I

710
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: started doing some research about Richard O'Brien. But I pulled

711
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: some quotes from a BBC article. Is from this yea

712
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: from me? And in the article, he uh speaks, well,

713
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: I don't know pronouns, I don't know, but O'Brien speaks

714
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: about their gender identity and fluidity, saying, it's my book

715
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 1: quote journalism, thank you new bit quote. It's my belief

716
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: that we are on a tenuum between male and female.

717
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: There are people who are hardwired male, and there are

718
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: people who are hardwired female, but most of us are

719
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 1: on that continuum. And I believe myself probably to be

720
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: about se male female O'Brien has also and this is

721
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 1: me talking now unquote is what you say, right? Um? Journalism, yes, journalism.

722
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: O'Brien has also identified Joan, as you said, as being

723
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: a third sex and has taken estrogen. So we're like, okay,

724
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: he's he's gender fluid. But and then he's like, but

725
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: trans women aren't women, And you're like, what, Richard, what?

726
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: So it's confusing. Yeah, I mean to me, it just

727
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: you know, it speaks to this like intense inability to

728
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: look like kind of look outside yourself like all, I

729
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: like literally all. And I read in the interview. I

730
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: read that he's still that it's still he still us

731
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: mail pronounce. That's what I was. So that's where I

732
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: was going with. But like he's still, um, you know

733
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 1: you understand it's like lack of empathy, like he understands

734
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: what's going on inside of him, and but he can't

735
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: like extend that to like anybody, which you know, like

736
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: tracks with just like other things I've learned about him,

737
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: and like namely like you know, he's just like his

738
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: distaste for like how like popular his thing has become.

739
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: The thing is like with Richard O'Brien, outside of his

740
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: very messy views on gender and identification. In general, he

741
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: just seems like a pretty bitter person about like I

742
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: mean and but I'm sorry if there's stands in the audience,

743
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: but like but but in general, like he does come

744
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 1: off as like you're ruining my creation. And he's always

745
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 1: like why didn't people appreciate me as riff rap? And

746
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm sorry, Yeah, there's a and I would

747
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: recommend why because I think the production itself is fun

748
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: On YouTube there is a like two fifteen stage production.

749
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun. Like Stephen Fry is the narrator,

750
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: but like they like interview Richard O'Brien like halfway through

751
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: and like it's just clear that he's like disgusted with this,

752
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: with this and he's people and he's like yeah, it's

753
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: just his vibe of like why, like these people are

754
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: ruining my my brilliantly crafted script, and it's like yeah, yeah,

755
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: or is your sophomore triumph? It was Shock Treatment, that

756
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: was his fault. That was his sequel to Rocky Horror.

757
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 1: It did not make an impact, as that reaction will

758
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: tell you. I have not I haven't seen it, but

759
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: but people it seems like people have generally argued that

760
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: it is a more cohesive piece than Rocky Horror. Yes,

761
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 1: I would say it's a more cohesive piece, I would say,

762
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: and none of the songs slap. Well, then what's the point. Um.

763
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: So that's a little bit of background I had about

764
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: the the state of the subculture. Uh, and then too

765
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: to everyone listening to everyone here the show, and I

766
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: mean I'm very interested in and we were talking about

767
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: this in last night of just like what is the

768
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: current uh state of Rocky Horror fandom? Because it does

769
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: seem like in some cases it does skew older and

770
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: where there are more options for many for queer community.

771
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: Now like where yeah, where does that fandom stand? Because

772
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: I mean, like we have the new art one which

773
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: I think is the lot the one of the new

774
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: art o Santa Manicas. Yeah, let's all go afterwards, let's

775
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,479
Speaker 1: uh who can get it? Like a fifty person left? Um,

776
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 1: it's a um, it's still it's been going for like

777
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: pretty much for you, like since has been going for

778
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: almost consistently every Saturday night since since eighty six. I

779
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: believe they took some time off in the early two

780
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: thousands to repo the genetic opera. Remember that referencing I

781
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 1: have movies everybody remembers. Um. But yeah, they've been doing

782
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: it for like like thirty five years or something, right,

783
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: I mean, so it's and it's like really the only

784
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: movie of its kind that has this kind of following,

785
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: which which is like a gigantic accomplishment for the piece

786
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: and for the community around it. But yeah, I just

787
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: I haven't been in several years myself, and I'm just like, yeah,

788
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: where does it stand, especially our young younger people still

789
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: interested in going? Like is this still an entry point

790
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: for younger people? Because I don't know if a fourteen

791
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: year old today would be like, oh, here's here's the

792
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: best option in my area, you know what I mean. Uh,

793
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: we don't know. We'll find out, we'll get we'll take

794
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: some questions at the end. Let's talk about the actual

795
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: female characters in the phone. Okay, um, well, unbelievable that

796
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 1: you suggest that. I'm sorry, y'all go home. Let's start

797
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: with Janet. I suppose, as we already hinted at, she

798
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: is basically inconsequential to the plot, if you can call

799
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: it that, but love she does faint once during time

800
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: war she fainted. She shrieked, and then she faints again

801
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: when Frank conferred her first appear because say it with me,

802
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: now women fainting, And there's also when she doesn't faint

803
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: in something dramatic happens. She then shrieks and rushes into

804
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: the arms of the most recent person she's had sex with. Yes,

805
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 1: so that is another quality, right she She's written as

806
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: a fairly timid, like, oh Brad, I'm so scared protect

807
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: me type of female character, but she does have an arc.

808
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: She doesn't definitely. She starts by saying she doesn't like

809
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: men with muscles, and then she does yes, and then

810
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: has sex with a man with muscles who might be

811
00:49:55,320 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: a baby. We'll talk about it. Yes, here's what we know.

812
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: He has muscles. But then she's only like sexually liberated

813
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: after she gets raped by Frankenfurter, so that we'll get

814
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: to that. There are a few I mean, and this

815
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: is in no way defending the two consecutive rape scenes

816
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 1: that are played for jokes, but there are a few

817
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: things I thought that were like planted for Janet, planeted

818
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: for Janet, damn it uh, and where there are a

819
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: few moments where Janet is starting to have fun, like

820
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 1: at the party and at the time where I think

821
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: it's during the time where she goes like, oh, this

822
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: is fun and Brad's like, no, it isn't and she's

823
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: like okay. But there there are a few times where

824
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: Janet wants to participate and her fiance, but where her

825
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: fiance is like, we don't like this, and Janet kind

826
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,479
Speaker 1: of you calibrates and it's like, okay, okay, I'm not allowed.

827
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 1: Does that mean that Brad is basically cal Hockley and

828
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: that Rocky is Leonardo DiCaprio slash Jack Dawstin's is Titanic?

829
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: Yes it does. We both have red hair and there's

830
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: a ship there's either sinks or blast off into space.

831
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: I'm willing to explore this, yes, but but yeah, like

832
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: it is hinted at a few times that Janet is

833
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:33,919
Speaker 1: more receptive and like, is I mean hornier. She also

834
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,439
Speaker 1: insists on going with Brad when their car breaks down.

835
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: He's like stay here, I'll go find help, and she's like, no,

836
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: I'm coming with you. She pushes against him in very

837
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: subtle ways, but she does push against what he wants

838
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: a few times. But at the beginning when he says no,

839
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: we don't do that, she obeys, and I would also say, like,

840
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: you know, I don't necessarily want to give like the

841
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: movie too much at it in this direction, but I mean,

842
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: I do think we are kind of supposed to be

843
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 1: watching parodies of nineteen fifties b movie like cute team Couple,

844
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 1: So you know, I don't the reason I don't want

845
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: to give it too much credit in that direction because

846
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: I feel like at the end of the day that

847
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't have much to say about them. It just

848
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: kind of like it presents them and it's like these

849
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: like I don't know, it does not he to say,

850
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: but like it's like, I do think we are watching like,

851
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, archetypes of like characters and not not necessarily

852
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: like but no fans for Geno Brian maybe not the

853
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: most like well developed predimensional characters logging in right now

854
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: like how dare you? Yeah? I was reading some similar

855
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: an analysis. There was a visa reference later by a

856
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: queer writer named Ronnie Baker, who did a fair amount

857
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: of research into the references this movie is making, uh,

858
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: most of which have not survived the test of time

859
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: that we would be able to pick up on them.

860
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: But basically the queer coded sci fi movies that came

861
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: out in the fifties and sixties and into the seventies

862
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: that kind of influenced and made this movie what it

863
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: was in some ways, um that are kind of left out.

864
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,879
Speaker 1: And I think that the meat loaf character is also

865
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be a reference to like fifties like you know,

866
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 1: James Dean biker boys right right, and then him getting

867
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: like killed so abruptly. It's supposed to be, but we

868
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: don't know, but it's a metaphor. It's like basically like

869
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: if you're watching like like date movie, like it's in

870
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: thirty years, you're just gonna not know where all these

871
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: references are. Yeah, you're like, oh, reference equals comments, got it?

872
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: Uh what you were saying about the Oh that that

873
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: was all I had to say on on it for

874
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,919
Speaker 1: the moment. But yeah, there's there's there's more to come

875
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: with that one. But basically that there in b movies specifically,

876
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: there were some characters that made more explicit challenge to

877
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: je Under that seemed to have influenced Frankenfurter's character that

878
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 1: have just kind of been because they were the movies

879
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: or kind of like forgotten comic books lost to time,

880
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: but there is a clear history of like influence that like,

881
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: like this movie didn't come out of nowhere. Y gotta

882
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: got it. Should we talk about those rapes scene? I

883
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: mean we've got it in some must Thanks for coming

884
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: out tonight, everybody. I love to just get a room

885
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: of people and just be like, let's talk about those

886
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 1: rape scenes. But we must, we must, we must. Um.

887
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: So what happens here in this narrative is that first

888
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: we see Janet in bed, someone who she thinks is

889
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: her fielce say comes in and starting kissing her, and

890
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 1: then suddenly it turns out to be Frankenfurter in disc eyes.

891
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: She freaks out, She tells him to stop, screams for help, says,

892
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: you tricked me. I wouldn't have and then Frank Confreter says,

893
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: stop it. Do you want Brad to see you like

894
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 1: this in a compromising sexual position, because he basically grabs

895
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: her legs and like kind of thrust his pelvis into yes,

896
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: um without doubt, placing the blame on her. And then

897
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 1: she says, like, what it's your fault, You're to blame.

898
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: I was saving myself. And then Frank Confreter responds by saying, well,

899
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're not spent yet, and then suddenly her

900
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: attitude changes and then he is like kissing her again,

901
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: and then she's like, promise you won't tell Brad, and

902
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: then they presumably have sex. And this is supposed to

903
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: be for is a funny moment, yeah, And second, a

904
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: moment that is supposed to indicate, like you were saying, Caitlin,

905
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: a liberation in the character where this like pretty explicit assault,

906
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 1: very it's supposed to mean. And now she is open

907
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 1: to sexual experience because she was raped, which is pretty

908
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: clearly the opposite of what that is. A similar thing

909
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 1: happens in Cruel Intentions with the Selma Blair character. But yeah, basically,

910
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: I mean to break down this scene, she is assaulted

911
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,919
Speaker 1: just by the mere fact of she thinks that Frank

912
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: Conforter is someone else, and then it's like the revenge

913
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: of the Nerds thing, and then she says no, no, no,

914
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: like denying consent, and then Frank Conforter is like, come on, though,

915
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: you'll like it, and then she's like contenticating that you

916
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: can be talked out, persuaded, and then he's like gas

917
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: lighting her and then suddenly she's into it, question Mark,

918
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like this like idea of like

919
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, like a like a no is just like

920
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: a yes that needs a little more negotiate. Like she

921
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: just you know, she doesn't know what she wants. She's

922
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: just waiting for like the right like guy to come

923
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,919
Speaker 1: along and and and show her right. And the same

924
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: thing happens to Britten. And I think that like both

925
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: Janet and Brad are victimized by these scenes. And the

926
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: way that Frankenfurter's character is written is enforcing all these negative, negative,

927
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: negative stereotypes yes about you know, and it's it's hot.

928
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how we should be classifying Frekenfurter specifically,

929
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: but you know, just I say, will call him queer

930
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: and like, yes, just like all these like negative like

931
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: you know, negative stereotypes that exist about that have existed

932
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: about queer people in like you know sci fi and

933
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: horror movie is like really up until like very recently

934
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: yesterday and still but just yeah, like implying that by

935
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 1: I mean and again it's like not made explicitly clear,

936
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 1: but that by challenging the gender binary in any way

937
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: that Frank converter, is a predator, is a cannibal, is

938
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: like is a murderer, and and then conflating it with

939
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: anyone who challenges the gender binary at which is like

940
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: a problem that comes up again and again and again,

941
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: and even in this extremely iconic movie, it's very present.

942
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: Oh no, but I mean, I mean, like it extends

943
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: to like, you know, it's Buffalo Bill, This is like, yeah, yeah,

944
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: it's It's also that these scenes are like campy rape

945
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: scenes in a campy movie. I know, they're like it's right,

946
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: but it's fine, But like is it that makes it

947
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: all the more dangerous because the whole the scenes are

948
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: played for humor and for laughs, and it's like disguising

949
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: full assault in camp and which I sort of am

950
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: of the mind of. Like that is almost like the

951
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: most insidious dangerous way to do it. That If you

952
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: can play a scene like that and make people laugh

953
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: with it, that's a very potent dangerous thing we co

954
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: do for sure. Um and is not something that has

955
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: been challenged as much as I mean it was genuine.

956
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:33,919
Speaker 1: I mean I think that the first time I saw

957
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: that when I was fourteen, I didn't know what to

958
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: make of it. But everyone was laughing, and so you

959
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: recalibrate to be like, Okay, I guess that's funny. I mean, yeah,

960
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: I mean I saw it as a like I think

961
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: I saw that scene in a very like you know,

962
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: tens of levens. I saw it pretty young age, and yeah,

963
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: it just it just kind of like gave me this

964
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: idea of like, Okay, this is like a normal, acceptable

965
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: excemple thing. My parents did not only let me watch

966
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: Fox at such a young age, but yeah, yeah, yeah,

967
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: so so that I mean, no one comes out of

968
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: those scenes. I mean it's just like it's on every

969
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: level it does not hold up. No, no, uh. The

970
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: most that it does, I guess is like sort of

971
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: solidifies Frankenfurter as like by or maybe even pan sexual.

972
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: So it's not good representation of queerness on screen, but

973
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 1: it's there. So that's confusing to grapple with. Yeah, well,

974
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like that sort of goes into

975
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: the the larger conversation about Frankenfurter in general. So let's good,

976
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: let's get into that. I mean, there's truly where to begin. Um, yeah,

977
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: I guess I'll start on the lighter side of the

978
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: conversation and UH, talk a little bit about Tim Curry,

979
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: who plays part who kind of I mean, it's it's

980
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: we're we're in an era where so few people hold

981
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: up as people, much less people worth admiring, and Tim

982
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: Curry it seems to generally hold up as a person,

983
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: which is great, Um, Tim Curry. So, what I wasn't

984
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: aware of prior to like researching for this episode was

985
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: that Rocky Horror was a stage show first. So Tim

986
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: Curry had already been playing the party originated the part

987
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: of Frankenfurter Uh in UH nineteen seventy three, played it

988
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: in London, played it on Broadway, and then was one

989
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: of the few cast members that also played it in

990
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: the movie. UM, and so had a good understanding of

991
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: this piece based on my research. This was not the

992
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: first time that Tim Curry had played around with gender

993
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: in his uber. He had also been in a play

994
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: called The Maids in nineteen seventy one, where he played

995
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: a sado massochistic female maid named Solange would Love to

996
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: See Sho. So Tim Curry already had a history of

997
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: having an interest in playing with gender UH and his

998
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: performances and is still very much stands by the legacy

999
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: of Rocky Horror. And so this is a quote from

1000
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: OH five in an interview with Terry Grows where he

1001
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: says that he views Rocky Horror to be quote a

1002
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: rite of passage and adds the film is quote a

1003
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: guaranteed weekend party to which you can go with or

1004
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: without a date and probably find one if you don't

1005
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: have one. And it's also a chance for people to

1006
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: try on a few roles for sides, you know, figure

1007
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: it out, help them maybe figure out their own sexuality unquote. Um.

1008
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: And he's remained pretty involved in the Rocky Horror community

1009
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 1: to the point where he was the narrator in the

1010
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox stage adaptation that was on Fox in So

1011
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: uh yeah, Tim Curry, Now let's get into the harder

1012
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: stuff A well. I I thought that because the only

1013
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: real serious attempted update at this material, because it is

1014
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: in some in a lot of ways kind of un

1015
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: updatedble yah. A real example against reboot culture because it's

1016
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: like some material it's just like it's so in the

1017
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 1: DNA of it. But this was rebroadcast is one of

1018
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: the like broadcast Broadway shows in sixteen, and Frankenfurter was

1019
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: played by Liver and Cox And I know you've done

1020
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: some research into this as well. I have some quotes

1021
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: from her that I thought were really interesting. Well, I

1022
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: think and I think this might be what you're getting too,

1023
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: but like at least in terms of what she had

1024
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: to say about like, you know, Frankenfurter and their identity. Um,

1025
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: she talked a lot about it. The fact that you know,

1026
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: she as a character as a person identifying as like

1027
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: a like you know, a quote unquote like trans sexual,

1028
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: transvestite like that. That was like of the language and

1029
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: the level of the language a person a person like

1030
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: that would have like at the time, at the time

1031
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: the playteam, at the time the movie came out. So

1032
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, it was kind of like with frankin fur

1033
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 1: you're kind of looking at a character like bumping up

1034
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: against the walls of you know, just of understanding that

1035
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: the culture had at that time, and that's how they

1036
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 1: were defining themselves. Um. And you know, it would probably

1037
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: be a you know, a very different character if they

1038
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: were written today. But I think there's still kind of

1039
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: the idea that you know, you honor how they saw

1040
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: themselves back then, because that's you know, we still want

1041
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: to honor that and observe it, and I guess if

1042
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, so I totally agree. I I

1043
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: it's so like what served to me because I tried

1044
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: to go through a little bit of the because it

1045
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: seemed like people like it wasn't like a huge event,

1046
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 1: but people enjoyed it. It was generally well regarded. Victoria

1047
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 1: Justice Victor Jealousy plays Janet, you know, like we love it.

1048
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: Tim Curry plays a Narator, the Verne Cox is Frank Conforter.

1049
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, I feel like, as far as

1050
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: an attempt at an update, they did, but they're good.

1051
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: But what I thought was interesting was when Laverne Cox

1052
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 1: was doing interviews about this project, Um, she was talking

1053
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: a lot about, I mean, when we've talked about this

1054
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 1: in the on the podcast, a fair amount of pressure

1055
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: on a specific actor to represent their entire community in

1056
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: every part they play. And Laverne Cox kind of spoken

1057
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: on this to an extent when she was talking about this,

1058
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: because she recognizes in interviews that this is not the

1059
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: most up to date of the moment park at play,

1060
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: but she's acting and and and sort of the pressure

1061
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: that she is one of the only prominent trends of actors.

1062
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: Working to always be representing not just her own work

1063
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: but just of everyone is an enormous pressure. So a

1064
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 1: few quotes from her that she that she said when

1065
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: this came out was quote to call a trans woman

1066
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: a transstite in is very offensive. But as an actor,

1067
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 1: I don't play roles based on politics. This is just acting.

1068
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: I think of all the male identified actors who have

1069
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: played Dr Frankenfurter on stage over the years, I don't

1070
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 1: think any of them identified as transvestites either. People are

1071
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: confused about trans identity anyways, but hopefully we can have

1072
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: a discussion about it. Um. So that was just like

1073
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: the little bit of what she said when she played

1074
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 1: this role that I thought was interesting, And I think

1075
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: that's I mean, you know, kind of like what I

1076
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: get from Like the heart of that is, you know,

1077
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: like why this is like Frankfurter, you know stuff aside,

1078
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: like is like a fun like role to get to play,

1079
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: Like it's a fun like character to live in, especially

1080
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: for like that the big number, and it's you know,

1081
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,959
Speaker 1: it's I understand the desire to be like I don't

1082
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: constantly want to be like defined by the politics surrounding

1083
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: my identity. Some times, and I just want to like

1084
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: have fun in a role sometimes I just want to

1085
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, like act and seeing and like have play

1086
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: a big, campy character. And I think she has that.

1087
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: I totally think she has that right as a performer. Absolutely. Yeah.

1088
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: So that that was like one thing that was just like, like,

1089
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 1: what what an extreme pressure put under? That would be

1090
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: put on very few other working actors to represent everybody

1091
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: at once. Um so so yeah, I mean, and and

1092
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 1: then there's the troops we were discussing earlier, which was

1093
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: just Frankfurter presenting a queer identifying character as literally every

1094
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: negative stereotype I can think of, down to cannibal, which

1095
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: I don't even normally think about. It also took me

1096
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: a few views of this movie to be like, oh,

1097
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: they're eating meat. Loof, like I'm not the meat. Then

1098
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: that would have been way chiller. But they were eating

1099
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:01,439
Speaker 1: the famous musician. Did they but catch up on him? Though?

1100
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: That's how you eat meat love. I believe, Yes, I

1101
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: actually believe Frankenfunter puts me catch up on him. Yes,

1102
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: it's so it is very as well as like portraying

1103
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: Frankenfurter is very very spiteful and jealous and vengeful and

1104
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: violent and just really everything in the book. But but

1105
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,719
Speaker 1: what the arc that was pointed out by the writer

1106
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: Ronnie Baker that I wanted to point out that was

1107
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: sort of pulled from that legacy of B movies and

1108
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 1: comic books with characters challenging gender that came before it.

1109
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: And this also sort of ties into and I haven't

1110
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: done the deep research necessary, so dragged me a few must.

1111
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: But the where the place that movie codes were at

1112
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,879
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, we're at a very in between

1113
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 1: place where the extremely rigid codes of like Doris Day

1114
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 1: end up being a wife and wifeing rules like that

1115
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: has fallen away, and now there's more room for for

1116
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: more challenging material but still with restrictions. And Rocky Horror

1117
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 1: is kind of a good bottle example of that, where

1118
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: we are allowed to love enjoy in spite of the

1119
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 1: fact that there's a lot of negative stereotypes being portrayed.

1120
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: But but people love Dr Frank Confer there like he's

1121
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 1: the center of the movie. He's the most remembered character,

1122
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,640
Speaker 1: and so we're allowed to have this character front and

1123
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: center as long as as the movie plays out. This

1124
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 1: character is punished for their transgression at the end, which

1125
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 1: is what happens when riff Raff and Magenta come back

1126
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: and they zapp him and he dies and it's very tragic.

1127
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 1: And that was sort of where where the narratives stood

1128
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: in terms of how queer characters can be portrayed. Yes,

1129
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 1: and uh and also like you know, I think, like, um,

1130
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: I bring this zap Columbia. Columbia dies too in that scene.

1131
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: And you know, I feel like lot of the kind

1132
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 1: of the way like trans like specifically like trans women

1133
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 1: are portrayed in in media in general, but specifically in

1134
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 1: horror films, they are you know classically like the Kill

1135
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: like you know, the Villain Sleepway, Sleepaway Cam, like uh,

1136
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:20,719
Speaker 1: the Brian, the Brian to Palmer movie with Mike Caine,

1137
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: Dead Kill, Kill, Sleepaway Camp, the Seed of Chucky like um,

1138
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: and my God. But like all those things kind of

1139
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: like come down to I feel like it's like it's

1140
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: not just the trend. It's not just like specifically like

1141
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: trans women are villains. It's that there's something I feel

1142
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 1: like if there's something innately like duplicitous and villainous about

1143
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: like women, and that's and what and then and therefore

1144
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,759
Speaker 1: like what could be like more like band that wants

1145
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 1: to take on those qualities because like if you like

1146
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 1: watch like like I'm gonna use a seed of Chucky

1147
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,640
Speaker 1: at dress to kill as my two private examples, but

1148
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of examples of this of where it's

1149
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 1: like presented is very binary, Like the character has a

1150
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: male side and a female side, and it's always in

1151
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 1: those movies, it's always like the female side is the

1152
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: one that is like doing the killing. Um, so, you know,

1153
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: and I think that like plays out in the mote

1154
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:21,680
Speaker 1: in in Here where it's it's not just like Frankenfurter

1155
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: that is, you know, it is kind of villainized for

1156
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 1: kind of messing with the gender binary a little bit.

1157
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 1: But you know, like Columbia is a you know, it's

1158
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,799
Speaker 1: kind of like a hysterical, like very like jealous woman.

1159
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: Like she's like driven pretty much entirely by jealousy throughout

1160
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: the entire film, you know that, and no one like

1161
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 1: you know, like it's kind of hard to keep track

1162
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: of what her relationships are because just like there's like

1163
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: multiple times where she bursts out and she's like I

1164
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 1: was in love with you, and you're like who are you, um,

1165
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: but like she's another I feel like, you know, she

1166
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: is punished for that as well. At the end. Something

1167
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: that because I always think about at least like transphobia

1168
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 1: specifically towards like trans women trans women, is that it's

1169
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 1: it's just a it's also just you know, massa, it's

1170
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 1: just it's just misogyny in another form. Yeah. And and

1171
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: then I mean, just even based off of you talking

1172
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 1: about that, I mean, there's really not anyone who presents

1173
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 1: in traditional men's clothing who has made out to be

1174
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: remotely bad in this movie where they're mostly victimized. Where

1175
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 1: with the meat Load character coming out in the like

1176
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 1: traditional mancho James dean biker outfit, hacked a death immediately

1177
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 1: he's victimized. The scientist is also the rival scientist is victimized,

1178
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: Brad is victimized. Where and then it's made out that

1179
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:47,679
Speaker 1: Frank Conferter, like the characters that present female like whether

1180
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: that be Frank Conferter, or that the Janet being like

1181
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: feeling welcome to have sex well in audience full of

1182
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 1: people thirty years later screaming sled her like they are

1183
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: more are aggressively punished by the narratives that makes a

1184
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 1: lot of sense. Oh boy. I mean, just to touch

1185
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: on a few of the other female characters, not that

1186
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: there are many, but um comb Magenta is riff Raff's

1187
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:25,640
Speaker 1: sister slash lover question Mark um Like that whole storyline

1188
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 1: is she's pretty sidelined. Like there's a few scenes where

1189
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: she's like talking to Columbia and then like but never

1190
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,759
Speaker 1: really doing anything. Or the only scene where she's talking

1191
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: to Columbia is the scene that is the Bectel test

1192
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 1: mind funk of this movie, where it's Columbia and Magenta

1193
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,639
Speaker 1: talking to each other as they're watching a TV screen

1194
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 1: of with that clearly without consented Janet Janet and Rocky

1195
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 1: is a baby is a born sexy yesterday? But yeah

1196
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: it's true, which is a subversion that I like sometimes

1197
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 1: that people like I'm subverting the troupe. I'm like, okay,

1198
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 1: so you're just hurting someone else, cool, good for you.

1199
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: But like they're they like Columbia Magenta are watching and

1200
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, unconsented twitch stream of Susan Saranda during her

1201
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 1: high school soprano like catch me. So they're watching people

1202
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: funk without their consent and making fun of them, and

1203
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 1: it is the it doesn't but we'll get there. But yeah,

1204
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess my point is like Magenta truly

1205
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter to this story at all. I mean,

1206
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure she's a beloved character, but like even when

1207
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 1: like mostly it seems like riff Raff has decided like

1208
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to overthrow this mad scientist and you know,

1209
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 1: kill him and then take oh like fly this ship

1210
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 1: out of here. You know, Magenta is very sidelined in

1211
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 1: that scene, which I think is partially because Richard O'Brien

1212
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: is like film me, I'm ready for my close to

1213
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 1: an actor. But yeah, I mean, I think overall the

1214
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 1: movie doesn't care very much about its female characters. And

1215
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: I also viewed Colombia being another person who sort of

1216
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 1: falls dead at the end of the movie to be

1217
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:32,680
Speaker 1: that the only people were I mean, Frankenfurter's character. I

1218
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 1: would say, it's like kind of inconsistent towards the end.

1219
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 1: Where towards the end, I think that Frankenfurter's song has

1220
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: become very sympathetic, where uh, you know, he's singing don't

1221
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 1: dream it be It and is singing about you know,

1222
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: like challenging things. Oh yeah, I mean I will say

1223
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 1: like as a kid, like no, like very few like

1224
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 1: lines and songs spoke to me as much as like

1225
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 1: whatever happened to Fayray that delicate satin drape frame as

1226
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: I something like I started to cry because I wanted

1227
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,679
Speaker 1: to be dressed just the same, and like that lyric

1228
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 1: means like I'm not gonna hear but that, but that

1229
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 1: like lyric, like that is so sympathetic towards like what

1230
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 1: I felt like myself going through at that time, and

1231
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:18,679
Speaker 1: like to hear it has expressed very lovely. I think

1232
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: that it is such a lovely expression of of what

1233
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: I felt and what that character is feeling. And like

1234
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I yeah, it gets very

1235
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:29,839
Speaker 1: he gets very sympathetic at the end. Yeah, he really doesn't.

1236
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 1: In those last songs, they're very beautiful and they're very honest,

1237
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 1: and they are not the cannibal murderer of forty five

1238
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: minutes ago, certainly, And it's only then that Frank Inverter

1239
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 1: is killed, when when he's expressing his most like concise truth,

1240
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 1: as well as Colombia, who I think is a reference

1241
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:57,479
Speaker 1: to a movie company, uh being being the only one too.

1242
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:02,799
Speaker 1: I mean female character, so shriek out in his defense.

1243
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:08,679
Speaker 1: But she's the only person besides Rocky who expresses upset

1244
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: at his being killed, and so she's killed and Rocky's killed.

1245
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 1: And because Janet and Brad and Dr Scott are the

1246
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,080
Speaker 1: bystanders who said nothing, they get to go on and

1247
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 1: live their lives. And that feels like kind of sending

1248
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: a I don't know how intentional it would have been

1249
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: at the time, but it does sort of seem to

1250
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,360
Speaker 1: send a message of like, the people who stood up

1251
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 1: for the one character that expressed their truth at least

1252
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:36,400
Speaker 1: at the very end, Uh, go down with that character.

1253
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: And that my academic So yeah, that those are those

1254
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: are my thoughts on Frankenfurter. Yeah, Wow, there's there's just

1255
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 1: so much. So I think that there's a little bit

1256
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 1: to be said about Brad here where I mean, I

1257
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: think one of the few things that I am like,

1258
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,600
Speaker 1: yeah sure about the live culture of the movie is

1259
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: shouting asshole at Brad because he is an asshole. Uh

1260
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 1: we're at the beginning. I like that they're kind of

1261
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:14,880
Speaker 1: satirizing the expectations of like the traditional like sis Head,

1262
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: White couple of this time where there it does it

1263
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: does seem like it's trying to be implied at the

1264
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 1: beginning that they're only getting engaged because they feel like

1265
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 1: that's what they're supposed to do. They're at a marriage

1266
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 1: they you know, Janet is like, oh, I need to

1267
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 1: get married next, and then Brad like, okay, like his

1268
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: that's the whole vibe damage and she's like, um, well,

1269
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:41,000
Speaker 1: even like the choreography, it's just like he's like saying it,

1270
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: but he's like physically like removing himself from it. It's

1271
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:49,479
Speaker 1: like it's a darting away. Yeah, and and and so

1272
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm going to just kind of remove

1273
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 1: the assault scenes from this analysis because those seem to

1274
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 1: be kind of a thing unto themselves that aren't dealt

1275
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 1: well well within this movie. But in general, uh, Brad

1276
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 1: seems to be this character that is acting on what

1277
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:07,439
Speaker 1: he thinks he is supposed to be doing. He is

1278
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 1: completely almost acting on like what the expectations of a

1279
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 1: quote unquote man at this time should be doing. And

1280
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: then we see him and Janet at the end when

1281
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 1: they're unstatuified question mark um, you know, and they're all

1282
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:27,680
Speaker 1: they're all wearing the frank confurter um. Why can't I

1283
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 1: think of the word. Yeah, they're all wearing the uniform

1284
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 1: basically at this point, and they sing about how they

1285
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 1: feel liberated, and that leads into dunk dream it be it,

1286
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: And I do like the idea of where that arc goes.

1287
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: I truly detest that a jokey rape scene is part

1288
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 1: as one of the main plot points that helps them

1289
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:54,760
Speaker 1: again to that place. But taking I mean, one of

1290
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: the I thought the more effective commentaries of this movie

1291
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:01,560
Speaker 1: is taking that that very trope couple that's like, I

1292
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 1: guess we're getting married. I guess we love each other,

1293
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: and then taking them on this journey and ending them

1294
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: with like Janet saying that she has all this new

1295
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:13,839
Speaker 1: sexual confidence and that she feels like a new person,

1296
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:17,799
Speaker 1: and Brad doing that really kick that made me horny

1297
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 1: when I was little, the very spinny yeah, not full kick,

1298
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: and then the shutter is it okay? But like but again,

1299
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 1: that also implies that the queer characters are there to

1300
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:41,479
Speaker 1: further the straight character's narratives. So there, there's there's just

1301
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:46,759
Speaker 1: there's truly every problem. Indeed, Yeah, Brad is an interesting

1302
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:54,600
Speaker 1: underwritten character, much like every character in this true I

1303
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 1: don't know if I have that much else. Does anyone

1304
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: else have any other final thoughts? Not really, I mean

1305
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:05,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure that there's stuff we're missing here.

1306
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 1: Uh you know, uh, we're all watching this together. Last

1307
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: night I was like, I love meat loaf, and then

1308
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 1: I googled meat loaf politics, and now I don't. Yeah, yeah, sorry,

1309
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 1: I propose we can all still listen A bad out

1310
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 1: of Hell. But yeah, I don't google meat loaf politics.

1311
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 1: He is addicted to Mitt Romney. Yeah, yeah, to him,

1312
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 1: the main Romney. Yeah, it's it's nasty and boring. So yeah,

1313
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 1: there we go. Shall we take a few moments for

1314
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: some audience questions comments? Story? But oh well, actually I

1315
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 1: have a I have a friend here. Uh and she

1316
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:57,679
Speaker 1: was like a pretty active part of like a Rocky

1317
01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 1: You were in the Rocky Horror scene, right, Kate, my

1318
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 1: friend Kate Rap Hi, everyone to give my friend Kate

1319
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 1: wrapped a hand like you have like a bicoastal like

1320
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 1: Rocky Horror story. Rights. Yes, yes, yea Kate rap my

1321
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 1: righting partner comes to our show at some point. Yeah,

1322
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 1: it's at some point. Okay, so I'll make this really quick.

1323
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: But I did go to the like the new art

1324
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 1: shows in high school because I grew up in the

1325
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:32,839
Speaker 1: South Bay not too far from here, and I remember

1326
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: being like seventeen and thinking that Rocky was super hot.

1327
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:40,240
Speaker 1: I mean, like the guy who plays Rocky is just

1328
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:45,000
Speaker 1: like an icon in any Rocky Horror performance, like, and

1329
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,720
Speaker 1: I saw him after the show, and I don't know

1330
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: how it happened, because I did get like probably black

1331
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 1: out drunk, which is also like a weird part of

1332
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 1: the Rocky Horror live show culture, like they like want

1333
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 1: young children to get very drunk. It's very weird, like

1334
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 1: you're back. Yeah. So I was like very drunk, and

1335
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 1: I made out with Rocky, like I think, just in

1336
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:09,800
Speaker 1: front of the theater like at the New York Like

1337
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 1: we didn't go to a bar or anything afterwards. So

1338
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 1: I was like, this was the highlight of my life.

1339
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 1: I was like seventeen. I got to make out with

1340
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:18,640
Speaker 1: Rocky and then he takes his wig off and he

1341
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: looks very different, and I was just like, this is strange,

1342
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 1: Like I'm feeling something different now. I was, You're a

1343
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:32,240
Speaker 1: real human, this is not the same anyway. Um fast forward,

1344
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 1: I go to college in New York like a year later,

1345
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 1: and he's like doing a guest slot at the like

1346
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 1: Chelsea in New York like version of Rocky Horror. And

1347
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: I made out with him again, So I mean I

1348
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 1: with Rocky twice. It's the height of my sexual conquest.

1349
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 1: And I think he's like a Trump supporter now, so

1350
01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:58,960
Speaker 1: he like sucks. What is I think he's like, really

1351
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:04,759
Speaker 1: he's really be it might have been meat load. Oh

1352
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:10,240
Speaker 1: my god, thank you for sho you feel slightly guilty

1353
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:12,639
Speaker 1: because like when I when I asked, you, like, come

1354
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 1: tell the story. It's gonna be really fun, and then

1355
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:16,639
Speaker 1: I was I did not also say like we're gonna

1356
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:19,679
Speaker 1: be talking about rap scenes for like minutes. Build enough

1357
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:28,479
Speaker 1: to the questions comments, any thoughts from from anyone? Yeah,

1358
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 1: oh yes, and the person who has not seen Rocky

1359
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:34,839
Speaker 1: Horror before, I just want to know which role Alfred

1360
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 1: mull Thank you so much. Drasing Well, I think if

1361
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:43,879
Speaker 1: we're under selling his talents, which we never should, uh,

1362
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: he would play an excellent Brad. It would bring you know,

1363
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,720
Speaker 1: not to not to downplay Berry or his kicks, but

1364
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, couldn't bring a lot more. But you know,

1365
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 1: he could have brought a lot more to that role,

1366
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 1: I think. But Ultimately, I think that we should have

1367
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:02,479
Speaker 1: had him playing Rocky Horror, Like we really need a

1368
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 1: British beefcake in that role. Um, and not an American model.

1369
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:09,439
Speaker 1: Is there anyone? I mean he also could have play River.

1370
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,640
Speaker 1: I mean he could have played literally anyone in the

1371
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: movie nowadays. He could be like, like, well, I think

1372
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:18,720
Speaker 1: I could see him as the criminologist. Obviously he's in

1373
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:23,639
Speaker 1: Frozen two. He is. Yeah, another reason to see Frozen two.

1374
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 1: I know, well, Alfred Billio is in it. He I mean,

1375
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 1: as usual, any role will do, But I feel like

1376
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:35,799
Speaker 1: Tim Curry has to play Frank Confurter. That's the only

1377
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:38,760
Speaker 1: like normally I will displace any actor in favor of

1378
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 1: Alfread Billina. But I do think that Tim Curry will

1379
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:45,760
Speaker 1: stay h and Alfred Billina would not be like I mean,

1380
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:48,599
Speaker 1: as we know, he's our friend. He's our friend, he's

1381
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 1: not a diva. He won't be like I can't believe

1382
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:54,640
Speaker 1: he would say, I'm just thrilled to be here. Yeah

1383
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 1: that's true. Um yeah, but started going off of what

1384
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:00,880
Speaker 1: he was saying about the pressure to get teens drunk.

1385
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:02,880
Speaker 1: That is one thing that I didn't mention in my

1386
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:06,200
Speaker 1: discussion of the community of there have been issues with

1387
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:11,200
Speaker 1: the upside of the community is that everyone is welcome

1388
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 1: regardless of age, so you have young teens coming into

1389
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: the community. The downside of that is that there are

1390
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:21,680
Speaker 1: pictures posted of scantily clad teenagers without their consent, alcohol

1391
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 1: being passed around to them, and a lot of sexual

1392
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 1: pressure being put on young people without any regard for

1393
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 1: their age. So just a fun thing me love, Yes,

1394
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 1: he's alive or do we have any other com questions

1395
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 1: or commute? Jumping off from the discussion of trans women

1396
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:53,719
Speaker 1: being the villains also psycho yes, yes, drasticill is, terror

1397
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 1: is terrible and the complete something changed. I'm sorry, but

1398
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 1: spirit Halloween. Um, I think it should be discussed whether

1399
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 1: or not Frank comes scaps. I no one has ever

1400
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:13,799
Speaker 1: wanted to bring this up before. People are usually upsetting, horrified. Okay,

1401
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 1: so let's open the floor here Frankenfurter. When Frankenfurter comes,

1402
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:21,280
Speaker 1: we usually have this conversation and regards to Beetle'll just

1403
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 1: pull let's up in it up to Frankenfurter. What the

1404
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:27,519
Speaker 1: material that has come with it? I think it would

1405
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 1: be like, no, well, well we're not the thing that

1406
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:32,759
Speaker 1: bothers me is that people are like, it's not scaps.

1407
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 1: It's for sure scaps. But even for even for Frankenfurter

1408
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:43,080
Speaker 1: Halloween characters comes scaps. Okay, it's cannon. Okay, it's cannon.

1409
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 1: But the question where or dry he's well, he's an

1410
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 1: a like you know, he's an alien, so like we

1411
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: don't know what his internal internal like biology is like

1412
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:55,560
Speaker 1: you know what kind of what organs he does or

1413
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:58,559
Speaker 1: doesn't have, So like, yeah, I think like I think

1414
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 1: he comes from a race where anybody comes scabs. Yes, okay,

1415
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:10,200
Speaker 1: but are they are they dry? Um, they're wet? Yeah,

1416
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 1: team wet scat, you're dry the wet they're usual. I

1417
01:28:15,400 --> 01:28:18,439
Speaker 1: am always team dry scap. Imagine the card of the

1418
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 1: deck of cards literally beetle juice comes dry scabs like yeah, yeah, yeah,

1419
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 1: just like like like a machine gun, yes yeah, just

1420
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:32,320
Speaker 1: a one scab after another and then wet scabs. I

1421
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:34,719
Speaker 1: can't say it enough. Is a laser jab printer printing

1422
01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:38,800
Speaker 1: a full color? Okay, we had some other we got

1423
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:43,760
Speaker 1: to change something, other questions, other comments, Yes, come come

1424
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 1: on down. Just another quick thing. At the beginning of

1425
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:50,519
Speaker 1: the film, when at the wedding scene, where the car

1426
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:52,680
Speaker 1: drives up and on the side of the car it

1427
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 1: says like just married and like shaving cream, and right

1428
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:01,560
Speaker 1: below that it says she just got hers. Now tonight

1429
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:06,160
Speaker 1: he's gonna get his, which is very iggy. Yes, yes,

1430
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,920
Speaker 1: thank you for pointing that out. I guess that's like

1431
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:14,439
Speaker 1: commentary on how like, oh, this is how straight people be,

1432
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,519
Speaker 1: but I don't even know I think that. Yeah, like

1433
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:21,439
Speaker 1: it has a comment on like women want marriage, men

1434
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 1: want to just that you know that bridal party. Don't

1435
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:32,480
Speaker 1: put that much on the car, right yeah, your friend's relationship,

1436
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 1: that's not your jobs per funcing on the bride's friends friends.

1437
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: To make no mistake, this couple is problematic and all

1438
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 1: the expected we are going is goodbye. We're gonna use

1439
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:50,479
Speaker 1: this in the chance to sub tweet them. But I

1440
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:53,240
Speaker 1: also feel like that opening sequence with like the wedding

1441
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 1: and everything is like, oh, look look at these fucking

1442
01:29:57,120 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 1: normies and their heteronormativity. Wait till you get to the

1443
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 1: castle and that's when things get cool and fun and

1444
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 1: you get hosted and then also you will be assaulted.

1445
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 1: Um so than you know, problems winning. Uh, well, does

1446
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 1: the movie pass the Bechdel test? No, no, it does.

1447
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: It does. There we was there, we was so there

1448
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 1: was a there's the one question mark scene where we

1449
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:28,839
Speaker 1: were all sort of like, might it yes? The question

1450
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:33,599
Speaker 1: is is it saying someone's dialogue back to them or

1451
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 1: in a mimicking tone countess dialogue? Like it's it's like

1452
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 1: being like that is that that kind of dialogue? And

1453
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:45,720
Speaker 1: that's the Magenta Columbia scene that we have alluded to

1454
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:49,719
Speaker 1: you before, but ultimately for me because in this scene

1455
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:53,320
Speaker 1: it is two women with names talking to each other

1456
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:59,240
Speaker 1: about surveilling a heterosexual couple without their consented and making

1457
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 1: fun of them. I say it doesn't pass right. I

1458
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:08,600
Speaker 1: mean the line goes because they're watching Janets sing a

1459
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 1: song too Rocky about how she just had sex with Frankenfurter,

1460
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:17,799
Speaker 1: and Magenta says do you mean she, and Columbie says

1461
01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:21,599
Speaker 1: uh huh. And that's the only scene I clocked where

1462
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 1: women interact. Later, they do sing refrained like a touch

1463
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 1: of touch me I wanted to dirty back and forth

1464
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 1: to each other. That is then like just sn't like yeah,

1465
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 1: which like passes I guess on paper. But the context

1466
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:40,839
Speaker 1: is like they're talking about the kind of hetero sex

1467
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:46,000
Speaker 1: with a man and just like, regardless the fact that there,

1468
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:48,799
Speaker 1: I mean, that would be maybe our wildest pass yet

1469
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 1: that like watching people fucking without their consent and making

1470
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 1: fun of them somehow passes. The still tasks like almost

1471
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:00,559
Speaker 1: regardless of what they're saying, Like even if they're watching

1472
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 1: an unconsented feed of people having sex and being like,

1473
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 1: so have you read the latest Roxanne Gay, I'd still

1474
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:09,800
Speaker 1: be like, I don't know that this passes. They're still

1475
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:14,280
Speaker 1: doing something that's very illegal, so I don't Yeah, I

1476
01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:19,639
Speaker 1: I I don't think it passes from me. Yeah. Well,

1477
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 1: Times have rated on our nipple scale um zeroified nipples

1478
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 1: based on its representation of women, but all things considered

1479
01:32:31,240 --> 01:32:36,000
Speaker 1: based on our entire discussion because there's value in this

1480
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:40,679
Speaker 1: movie like being kind of, you know, a gateway for

1481
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 1: people who might be questioning their sexuality or gender to

1482
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:49,439
Speaker 1: kind of have exposure to something. This might have been

1483
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:53,360
Speaker 1: more true in decades past because now there is more

1484
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:58,680
Speaker 1: content available the focuses on queer narratives, but because it

1485
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:02,880
Speaker 1: does have such a big cultural impact. Um. But then

1486
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:06,679
Speaker 1: also the movie truly doesn't really have any vested interest

1487
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 1: in any of its female characters. They impacted the plot

1488
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 1: almost none, and I'm getting there. The prologue is, um,

1489
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:23,920
Speaker 1: I have to say like one and a half, I

1490
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:28,000
Speaker 1: was gonna say, is that too how low? Or too high?

1491
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:38,719
Speaker 1: Too high? The audience? O, my god? Stand thank you? Okay, fine,

1492
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:42,680
Speaker 1: I'll apologize again and I'll stand by my decisions. Okay,

1493
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:46,799
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. I'm so like Coodness you're yelling

1494
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:51,040
Speaker 1: at her. There you guys. I'm also everyone is I'm

1495
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:57,240
Speaker 1: still dressed as brad Um. Okay, one and a half

1496
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:03,200
Speaker 1: nipples and I will give one of them to Tim

1497
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 1: Curry and my half nimble to Susan Surrandon, but for

1498
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 1: Thelma and Louise and not this movie. I'm also going

1499
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 1: to go one and a half. I don't want any comments,

1500
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 1: thank you. No, I'm gonna go one and a half.

1501
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:26,080
Speaker 1: I appreciate and still, you know, like I mean, it's

1502
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:30,400
Speaker 1: it's I'm glad that the Rocky horror cultural legacy exists.

1503
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:33,200
Speaker 1: I think that it has a ton of value, especially

1504
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:35,519
Speaker 1: in its time, and I think that it is like

1505
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:38,439
Speaker 1: more of a region to region influence than most of

1506
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:41,639
Speaker 1: the movies that we cover were Like I mean, yeah,

1507
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,040
Speaker 1: I mean in in some reasons, I would imagine that

1508
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:48,720
Speaker 1: Rocky Horror is still an extremely valuable resource of community

1509
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 1: for people who are questioning or want to be involved

1510
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:55,840
Speaker 1: in the queer community to go to. UM. So I

1511
01:34:55,920 --> 01:34:58,920
Speaker 1: am very grateful for its legacy. In terms of content,

1512
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,839
Speaker 1: as we you said, it's all fucking over the place. Uh.

1513
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 1: It does not have a lot of regard for its

1514
01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 1: female characters. It is not a very thoughtful representation of

1515
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:13,800
Speaker 1: really anybody at all. UM very white movie as well,

1516
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:17,240
Speaker 1: extremely white movie. You only see people of color in

1517
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:20,479
Speaker 1: background shots, and they can't afford to bring the extras

1518
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:24,000
Speaker 1: back in every scene, so it is just it is

1519
01:35:24,439 --> 01:35:27,280
Speaker 1: a mess. I am glad that it was successful. I

1520
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:29,280
Speaker 1: think this is a great example of a movie we've

1521
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:33,920
Speaker 1: covered that paved the way for better perspectives. Because this

1522
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:37,160
Speaker 1: movie had a one point four million dollar budget and

1523
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:40,840
Speaker 1: made one hundred times its budget at the box office.

1524
01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:44,759
Speaker 1: It was extraordinarily successful and so for all of its many,

1525
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:48,160
Speaker 1: many many faults that we've discussed, a movie being that

1526
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:52,920
Speaker 1: successful and presenting queer culture in any way I feel

1527
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:57,879
Speaker 1: like does pave the way for uh, more qualified voices

1528
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 1: and more progressive voices to take the lead. Because with

1529
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:04,760
Speaker 1: when it comes to you know, the capitalistic night where

1530
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 1: we live in. If something makes money, people will give

1531
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 1: those types of narratives more of an opportunity with different writers.

1532
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:16,200
Speaker 1: So I'm glad it exists. And uh and and one

1533
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:21,000
Speaker 1: and a half nippies for that and that alone. I

1534
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:23,479
Speaker 1: will give one to Tim Curry and I'm going to

1535
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:27,120
Speaker 1: give a half e too, Rocky because he was a baby.

1536
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:31,280
Speaker 1: He was a baby, and we didn't talk about that enough.

1537
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 1: Born Sexy yesterday. Look up the trope. This is the

1538
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:40,160
Speaker 1: only male example we've recovered of it. Um. I think

1539
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:43,599
Speaker 1: both of what you said was stating very elegantly about

1540
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:45,799
Speaker 1: you know, the cult of the importance of the cultural

1541
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:48,400
Speaker 1: impact of the film and uh, you know, speaking to

1542
01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:51,639
Speaker 1: someone who can relate to that, you know, to some extent,

1543
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:54,559
Speaker 1: it wasn't the most important or influential piece of you know,

1544
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:57,840
Speaker 1: queer media in my in my youth, um, but it

1545
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,360
Speaker 1: was still like it was still important to me there

1546
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:03,120
Speaker 1: for me at certain points that I agree with all that. Um,

1547
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:06,200
Speaker 1: But I do think, you know, it really seems like

1548
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:09,679
Speaker 1: this is a subculture for you know that I'd love

1549
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:12,920
Speaker 1: to sit to see stick around, but also like a

1550
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,920
Speaker 1: lot of subcult like you know, subcultures right now need

1551
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:20,600
Speaker 1: to be like reevaluated, you know, yes updated, you know,

1552
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 1: we can find a better thing to what's the progressive

1553
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:26,559
Speaker 1: thing we can Yet, like Janet every time she comes

1554
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:33,400
Speaker 1: on screen, does exactly watch the Videl the Vicdel's cat.

1555
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:36,240
Speaker 1: Um they should all be pluns for your for your powers.

1556
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:40,360
Speaker 1: Um but um so yeah so I and I think

1557
01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:43,960
Speaker 1: I like that their their voices within the space now

1558
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:47,280
Speaker 1: sticking up, trying to find the trying to find ways

1559
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 1: to you know, bring bring you know, Rocky Horror for

1560
01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:56,479
Speaker 1: as you know, messy and uh complicated a piece of entertainment.

1561
01:37:56,479 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 1: It is, bring that culture, bring that community into you know,

1562
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:04,639
Speaker 1: into nineteen and beyond. And that's something you know, because

1563
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:06,880
Speaker 1: it would it wouldn't make me sad. It would make

1564
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 1: me sad to think that like Rocky Horror just like

1565
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:12,280
Speaker 1: stopped existing because you know, I did a lot of

1566
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, this morning, I did a lot of research,

1567
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:17,639
Speaker 1: you know or not am I read like three wikipe

1568
01:38:17,720 --> 01:38:19,880
Speaker 1: I read like three articles online. I did a ton

1569
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:23,160
Speaker 1: of research. Um but I like you know, found like

1570
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:27,640
Speaker 1: like um articles from you know, like little like colleges

1571
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:29,679
Speaker 1: like in the middle of the country and for them

1572
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 1: like you know, like from like literally like this, like

1573
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:34,840
Speaker 1: this October, like a couple like a week or two

1574
01:38:34,840 --> 01:38:38,719
Speaker 1: ago talking about you know, like you know, Rocky Horror.

1575
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:41,200
Speaker 1: You know, coming to campus is like this big deal

1576
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:43,479
Speaker 1: and it is like you know, they like one of

1577
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:46,679
Speaker 1: one of like two or three, like you know, queer

1578
01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:50,400
Speaker 1: focused events they have every they have every year, some

1579
01:38:50,439 --> 01:38:52,320
Speaker 1: pieces not even every year. So you know, I think

1580
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:55,439
Speaker 1: there is still like an importance and a you know

1581
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:58,160
Speaker 1: outside of maybe where we are, outside of our bubble,

1582
01:38:58,200 --> 01:39:00,600
Speaker 1: like there's still a lot of like good community can do.

1583
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 1: So long as it a key, it evolves, and you know,

1584
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:06,080
Speaker 1: um yeah, and I guess I would say I'm gonna

1585
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 1: stay on the one and a half stars training and

1586
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:11,439
Speaker 1: say I'll give I'm gonna give a half a star

1587
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:16,440
Speaker 1: to Tim Curry and then I'll give one half to

1588
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 1: the Magagina and one half Columbia. And for the very

1589
01:39:19,600 --> 01:39:22,679
Speaker 1: cool normal activity of painting each other's toe nails. Yes,

1590
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:28,240
Speaker 1: which does so? I think we're talking to painting to

1591
01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:31,520
Speaker 1: like painting your friend's house is a form of communication.

1592
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:38,439
Speaker 1: It is, yes, yes, we think about Oh goodness, well, John,

1593
01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:40,000
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Give it up

1594
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:45,599
Speaker 1: for John Ford. John Buss where can people follow you?

1595
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:48,439
Speaker 1: What would you like to plug? Tell us everything? Oh gosh, um,

1596
01:39:48,479 --> 01:39:52,360
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter and Instagram. Is Joan Hailey Ford I

1597
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:55,559
Speaker 1: have a If you're in l a uh Me and

1598
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:59,200
Speaker 1: Kate have a show coming up December twelve at the

1599
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:02,000
Speaker 1: UCB Theater. It's our two person sketch team Red and Yellow.

1600
01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:04,519
Speaker 1: So please come, please come see that eight thirty UCB

1601
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:08,599
Speaker 1: K Which which theater? Is it? Sun Sat? You see

1602
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:13,240
Speaker 1: sun Sat? There you go? Yeah? Yeah, Scot, Joan and

1603
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:16,760
Speaker 1: thank you too, so so much for coming. Thank you

1604
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:22,879
Speaker 1: to the Ruby Theater. Thank you to Aristotle, all staff

1605
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:27,559
Speaker 1: of the Ruby is Thank you Jamie than you can.

1606
01:40:27,680 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming. Have a good night. There you

1607
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:36,599
Speaker 1: have it our live Rocky Horror Picture Show show. Thanks

1608
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:39,200
Speaker 1: again to everyone who came out. Thanks again to the

1609
01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:42,639
Speaker 1: Ruby for having us. Don't forget about our final live

1610
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:45,640
Speaker 1: l A show at that location at the Ruby on

1611
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:50,280
Speaker 1: November nine, We're covering Home Alone. Don't miss it. Details

1612
01:40:50,320 --> 01:40:53,439
Speaker 1: for that and other live shows that we do in

1613
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:58,280
Speaker 1: various locations can be found on places like bechtel cast

1614
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:02,360
Speaker 1: dot com, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. You can follow us

1615
01:41:02,400 --> 01:41:05,800
Speaker 1: on those platforms at bechtel Cast also don't forget to

1616
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:09,880
Speaker 1: check out our Patreon a k a Matreon at patreon

1617
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 1: dot com slash Bechtel Cast. A subscription gets you to

1618
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:16,760
Speaker 1: bonus episodes a month for only five dollars per month.

1619
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:20,639
Speaker 1: You can also visit our merch store at t public

1620
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:24,760
Speaker 1: dot com slash the Bechtel Cast for all of your

1621
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:31,360
Speaker 1: merchandizing needs, including some spooky designs like feminist icon Beetlejuice,

1622
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:35,960
Speaker 1: Team dry Scabs, Team wet Scabs, and his Wife. Other

1623
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:39,519
Speaker 1: than that, just go and do the time warp again

1624
01:41:40,240 --> 01:41:41,439
Speaker 1: by