1 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley and longevity. Is it a fad, an obsession, 2 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: a status symbol, or a valid technological pursuit and what 3 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: should the rest of us think about it? In the 4 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: newest season of the hit podcast Skyline Drive, How to 5 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: Live Forever, host Mangesh had to get A explores the 6 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: world of biohacking, longevity research, and the theories of what 7 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: it means to live a long life Well. Mangesh looks 8 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: into how it feels to have your body age in 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: mere minutes, interviews seniors living in Brooklyn, New York, and 10 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: investigates why living forever might not be an ideal situation 11 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: for everyone. You might also recognize his name because Mangesh 12 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: is my co founder at Kaleidoscope. We spend a lot 13 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: of time together and has been a on tech stuff 14 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: several times. Welcome back to the podcast, by guess, it's 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: so nice to be here us. So let's go back 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: to the first season of Skyline Drive because for somebody 17 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: who's interested in science and technology and skepticism, it had 18 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: a strange topic which was astrology. 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So astrology is one of those things 20 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: that you cannot escape as an Indian and so the 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: thing I said was, I don't believe in astrology, but 22 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: it keeps happening to me. And I noticed that in 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: this world. It was very difficult as a kid in 24 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: America to be able to talk about astrology and not 25 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 2: be laughed at. But you go to India and everything 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 2: is based on it, from like weddings to auspicious dates. 27 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: I mean, the time when India becomes a country is 28 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 2: based on an astrological time, and so like, it dictates 29 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: so many things. And I went to talk to astrologer 30 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: there and he showed me pictures of like the head 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: of the nuclear program in India, who follows it. Right, 32 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: It's just in the fabric of the nation. And so 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: what I wanted to do was create this romp through 34 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: astrology and show that way, whther or not you believe 35 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: in it, that it is existing around you and it's 36 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: pulling things. 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: Around you because all the people believe in it. 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so like there were Major League Baseball managers 39 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: who use astrology to pick between two players. Reagan created 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 2: nuclear disarmament agreements based on astrology, and all of that 41 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: has had a profound impact on us, whether we believe 42 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: in astrology or not. 43 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: In that podcast, something very strange and uncanny and sad 44 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: also happened. 45 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, So at the end of the first episode, 46 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: I went to meet this astrologer in Queen's and I 47 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: had this wonderful chat. He told me how Kaleidoscope was 48 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: going to be gangbusters and that are figures crossed if 49 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 2: he's right about that far. But you give me this wonderful, 50 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: wonderful reading, and in it there was just this very 51 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 2: very brief segment where he said something about my dad's 52 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: health and how it could go very very wrong this year. 53 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: And then about thirty minutes after the reading, I went 54 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: and had tea at a chai parlor in Jackson Heights 55 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: with my cousin, and during it I got a text 56 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: from my dad that said that he had just had 57 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: a test come back and that a metastatic cancer had 58 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: spread through his body. And what we found is, you know, 59 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: I just started this podcast, and ultimately three weeks. 60 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: Later he passed. 61 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 2: And three weeks later, Yeah, you know, I talked to 62 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: a science writer about this and she said, you know, 63 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: is astrology true. I think it's true the same way 64 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: poetry is true. Right, It's just a way to interpret 65 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: and understand things. And that's ultimately how I understood astrology 66 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: was this way for people to grieve to. You know, 67 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: in India, mental health is something that's still stigmatized, and 68 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: so it's much easier to go to an astrologer and 69 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 2: talk about your problems than it is to therapist. 70 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I know we talked about it at the time, 71 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: as you know, as friends and co founders of business 72 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: and stuff, but I never already asked you in podcast 73 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: form before. I mean, what was a feeling in that moment? 74 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: Presumably the strologers said your father's health might not be 75 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: so good, and you thought, well, this is probably just 76 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: that kind of normal sprinkling of Sultan's sweet from these 77 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: types of experiences, right, or and then something so devastating 78 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: and you've got that call thirty minutes later, And what 79 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: was that feeling in that moment? 80 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: It was profound, but more that I had something I 81 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: urgently had to take care of, you know. It was 82 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: less about the astrology of it and more about how 83 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: could this be happening, How could this be happening now? 84 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: And how do we fix it? And so that was 85 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: what preoccupied me. But I still don't believe in astrology, 86 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: but I believe astrology is a way to understand the universe. 87 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: You also got a prediction about your own mortality in 88 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: season one. 89 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, It's something I didn't really look at. 90 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 2: It's such a luxury in some ways to collect tape 91 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: from friends and relatives and experiences. And so when I 92 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: went back and looked at some tape and conversations with 93 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 2: my mom and some other things, I noticed that in 94 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: this reading from this astrologer, a different astrologer, he told 95 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: me that my life would possibly end at sixty. If 96 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 2: I'm lucky, I get till sixty four. And I think 97 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: a few things happened at the same time. One is 98 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 2: that I turned forty six, and forty six is one 99 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: of those ages where you really start to fill your age. 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 2: My hair had turned gray, I had more belly fat 101 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 2: than i'd had ever before. It's harder to lose weight. 102 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: And I noticed I was just more tired, My legs 103 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: were more creaky, et cetera. And this is actually a 104 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: you know, it's documented. It's a thing that forty six 105 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 2: and some age at sixty are percent This year is for. 106 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: You, even if you haven't co found a business with me. 107 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: Well, I think two kids are more because of my grade, 108 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 2: but those two things happen at the same time. And honestly, 109 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: I'd been fascinated by longevity for a very long time. 110 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 2: Not because I've ever wanted to live forever, That's not 111 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: something that's been an interest of mine, but more that 112 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 2: every few years you get a magazine article that says, 113 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: this is the generation where the kids are going to 114 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: lift to two hundred. Yeah, and I'd seen that since 115 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: like twenty ten, twenty fourteen, two tho eighteen, And when 116 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: I was at iHeart before we started Kaleidoscope, I'd reached 117 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 2: out to a number of posts and said, why don't 118 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: we do this topic, Why don't we do like how 119 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: to live forever? Why don't we talk about the miracles 120 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 2: happening in medicine and the piece of new therapies, new ideas, 121 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,239 Speaker 2: new technologies, all moving so quickly. 122 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: And because you're an editor, I mean you were running 123 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: the iHeart podcast studio and your editor in chief of Kaleidoscope, 124 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: so essentially this this story was coming up for you, 125 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: like what is this repeated thing about longevity? What's true 126 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: and what's not? And then listening back through the tape 127 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: from your first podcast, you thought, basically, I can go 128 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: on a new question and answer this myself rather than 129 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: assign it. 130 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and for me, it was important to do astrology 131 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 2: in a way where it wasn't for skeptic and it 132 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: wasn't for believers, it was for everyone. Right, how do 133 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: you treat a subject in a way that feels very 134 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: human and ultimately longevity is the same? Right? There are 135 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 2: people who are very, very skeptical, rightly so, because there's 136 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: so many hucksters marketing at you constantly. And then there 137 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: are people who are all in, you know, who try 138 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: to follow every element of Brian Johnson's regiment. And we 139 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: all live, we all have to We don't all have 140 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: to die, according to some of the people that I interviewed, 141 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: but we all have to think about death. And so 142 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: I figured it was a very human topic that was 143 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: fun to dive into. 144 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: Well, I noticed your hair getting gray in the course 145 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: of working together. But then I noticed, in the course 146 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: of working on this show you losing quite a lot 147 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: of weight, and you know, being even more than a 148 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: more of a demon than ever on the tennis court. 149 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you were both investigating this subject but also 150 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: living it, right, I mean in the sense you were 151 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: trying to literally trying to live forever, but you took 152 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: seriously the premise of what if I took all of 153 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: these recommendations or some of these recommendations. 154 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And what any longevity doctor will tell you is 155 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: that the biggest things aren't the supplements or the therapies 156 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: you can do, or getting on an A D plus, 157 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: which I did and was interesting. But it's just diet 158 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 2: and exercise and making space for socializing and sleep. And 159 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: in the first part of this show, I was very 160 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: good about a lot of those things. As you work 161 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: to put out a show, it's not the best way 162 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: to stay on top of all of that. And so 163 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to the show being over and to 164 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: prioritizing some of that stuff. Again. 165 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: I mean, this is tech stuff, and most of what 166 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: we talk about on this show relates to Second Valley, 167 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: and you know, the power players and who's uphos down, 168 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: which companies are doing interesting things and one of the 169 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: technologies that really might change the future. And the longevity 170 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: story in the Silicon Valley story, to me almost two 171 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: sides of the same coin, right, So much of the 172 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: discourse about longevity comes from Silicon Valley and one of 173 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: the few things that you can't have if you're a trillionaire, 174 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: is is eternal life? 175 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 2: Yet No, it's one of those things like if death 176 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: and taxes are the two things that are unavoidable, a 177 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 2: lot of these people have avoided taxes. Now death is 178 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: the only thing that be challenged. 179 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: I mean, talk about talk about the kind of what 180 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: longevity means Silicon Valley culture. I mean, maybe talk about 181 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: Brian Johnson. I mean, he comes up multiple times in 182 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm not sure if you interviewed him or not, 183 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: but for the sake of the audience, like who is 184 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 1: he and why is he such a kind of symbolic 185 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: character in this story. 186 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Brian Johnson looms over the first couple episodes, 187 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 2: and I didn't talk to him. I did reach out 188 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 2: to his doctor and we sort of started to make 189 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: waves to speak to him, and then I didn't for 190 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: a couple of reasons. But Brian Johnson is a tech 191 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: founder who did very well, who decided to prioritize his health, 192 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 2: and he does insane regiments. He wakes up at four, 193 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 2: he takes hundreds of supplements and powders, He does every 194 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: single type of therapy. He is in bed by eight pm. 195 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: He's had his last meal, and I think, like two pm. 196 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 2: It's very, very regimented. And he's also doing everything all 197 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 2: at once. And what he's done that's really transformative is 198 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 2: that he has managed to seize on a movement that 199 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 2: tells people you don't have to die. And I think 200 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: that that's really the most radical thing he's done. He 201 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: started this conversation about longevity and about health and prioritizing health, 202 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 2: but really also about not giving up and not What 203 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: they'd say is like playing into this cultural narrative that 204 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: death gives your life meaning. And I think that when 205 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 2: you talk to some of these people in the space, 206 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: it's really fascinating because they say, well, what if AI 207 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: can make all decisions for us at some point and 208 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: we're living in some sort of singularity where it can 209 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: decide whether human life is worthwhile and you train it 210 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: on centuries of data and all of it is telling 211 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 2: you death is meaningful, Death gives life meaning. Won't it 212 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: make a choice that it should kill humanity? And Brian 213 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: Johnson is one of the people who believes this as well, 214 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: at least according to Adam Grease, who's a big deal 215 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 2: in Silicon Valley started the Vitalist Bay and Vitalism movement. 216 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 2: But what's also interesting about Brian Johnson is that a 217 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: lot of people won't say this on the record, but 218 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: they'll tell you what Brian Johnson is doing isn't science, 219 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: because science is about controls. It's about doing a lot 220 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: of tests and analyzing everything. And he's collected a lot 221 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: of data, but he's run so many variables at the 222 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: same time that it's impossible to know exactly what is 223 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: contributed to his help. 224 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: So let's talk about some of the some of the 225 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: life extending technologies, or at least technologies that you encountered 226 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: around aging and logevity. Since I've known you, you've been 227 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: interested in this suit that makes you feel because of 228 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: the experience of living in an older person's body. And 229 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: then finally, I think for this show, you've got to 230 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: You've got to put it on. Why has this been 231 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: something that's I feel like a lot of people have 232 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: like certain things that like tug at them in some way, 233 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: and I feel like the aging suit has been something 234 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: that's tugged at you for you know, almost ten years 235 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: that I've known you. Like, what makes you so fascinated 236 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: in that suit and what was the experience of trying 237 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: it on. 238 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, one of the things is having grown up 239 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: as an editor in a way like I just don't 240 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 2: let go of ideas. I've also thought about how you 241 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: can knit a sweater for the Statue of Liberty for 242 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 2: a very long time and I don't think that's going 243 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: to happen for a show, but it is a funny idea. 244 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 2: The aging I actually learned about from Jonathan Strickland, who 245 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: used to be and one of the things he told me, 246 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: which I absolutely loved, And the reason it stuck with 247 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 2: me isn't that you just put on a suit and 248 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 2: feel like what it is to be eighty. It's that 249 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: it's so rare that technology makes you more empathetic. And 250 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 2: I think that's really what got me, is that, like 251 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: not just the idea of being scared straight and feeling 252 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: what ady could feel like, but also what does it 253 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: mean for other people? You know, you stand in line 254 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 2: at a Starbucks behind someone, or you're impatient at the 255 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: postal office with someone or wherever it is, right Like 256 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: I think about it with my mom and like how 257 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: she asked for little things and I'm you know, I'm busy, 258 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: I'm doing all these things, and you realize once you 259 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: put on this suit how quickly everything is difficult. And 260 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 2: for most people it is like it's like boiling a frog, right, 261 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: you're turning the temperature up slow, slowly, slowly, but this 262 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: is just throwing you in quickly. And it's at this 263 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: wonderful age lab in Mi t and the guy who 264 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 2: directs this Joe Coffin, and the reason he created this 265 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 2: suit was he was trying to figure out how to 266 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 2: make a car that was better for elderly people. And 267 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 2: so all the engineers and people at this auto agency 268 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: were together and they wore the suits and they played twister, 269 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: and then they started doing things around the office and 270 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: you realize that everything is labored, from like walking to 271 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: trying to use the screen is so hard. Like I 272 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: went to the coffee machine and tried to pick a 273 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 2: coffee and I just had to guess for the most 274 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 2: part and then be happy with whatever I selected. 275 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: Or you have you have like blood vision glasses, like 276 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: weights around your wrists, Like what's the thing? 277 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you have you have bungeies, weights, you're walking on 278 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: crocs that are on top of styrofoams, or your balance 279 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: isn't there. You have no peripheral vision, so you know, 280 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: I couldn't tell who was standing next to me for 281 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 2: the most part. And then walking downstairs or like sitting 282 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: on a stool, these the things that are so natural 283 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 2: for anyone in pretty good health. You need all these 284 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: reference points with your hands to make sure you stick 285 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: the landing. And it was just it was really eye 286 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: opening to me to see that walking around an office 287 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: could leave you winded, you know, or or the ways 288 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: that just reaching for a plate or squatting down was 289 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: a real chore. 290 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: And part of the longevity crowd is in search of 291 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: being eighteen nineteen hundred years old, but not having the 292 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: experience of living that suit right. 293 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, completely, And that's a huge part of it is 294 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: how do you strengthen your muscles? How do you keep 295 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: the body you have even though the numbers go up. 296 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: One of the things I found most fascinating hearing you 297 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: talk about this story around the office is Frontier Tower. 298 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, Frontier Tower is this co working space that's 299 00:15:53,520 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: filled with really bright, idealistic young people who are invested 300 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: in the future. But it's not just co working space. 301 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 2: They also have social events. They have robot wars in 302 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: the basement and pet tide raves and all these things, 303 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: but they also have every floor is dedicated to a 304 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: different specialty. So like you might join, but you're joining 305 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: for the crypto floor. You might join, but you're joining 306 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: for the Maker's floor. You might join but you're joining 307 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: for the longevity floor, And so everyone kind of has 308 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 2: their specific interest, but then it all mixes pretty nicely. 309 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 2: And along with that, they also have an arts and 310 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: culture floor because they feel like they're this vertical village 311 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: in the middle of San Francisco and every civilization needs 312 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: a culture. 313 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: What did you find on the Majevity floor. 314 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 2: I think what was interesting to me was I had 315 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 2: thought that all of this type of community was happening 316 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: in prosper in Honduras, and so this exit community where 317 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 2: people it was like a libertarian paradise that has been 318 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 2: set up there. And instead what I found was people 319 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 2: did go there, and a lot of people from Frontier 320 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: Tower had been there, but they really found the nexus 321 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 2: of the Frontier and the money and the ideas to 322 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: be in San Francisco. And so on the Longevity floor 323 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 2: you had people who had created pop up communities. At Prosper, 324 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 2: you had investors, you had people who were in labs 325 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: creating all sorts of things, and they have a wet 326 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: lab at Frontier Tower where you can use Crisper and 327 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: other things like that. But there's also a medical clinic 328 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 2: on the Longevity Floor where you can use h Bot 329 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 2: therapy to have oxygen pumped into your body, and red 330 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 2: light therapy and various types of therapies that a doctor 331 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: in the back would prescribe and administered to you. 332 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: And you tried them not there, somewhere else there, And 333 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: did you feel a difference from trying these things? 334 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 2: Yeah? You know. I had heard so much about this 335 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: stuff being kind of like psychosomatic, right, like this idea 336 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: that you go in and you feel better, or you 337 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 2: think you feel better, and then you perform better at whatever. 338 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 2: And so I did the h BOT therapy and had 339 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 2: the oxygen sort of pumped into my system, and then 340 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: I did the cryotherapy and the red light therapy and 341 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: I dim back to back and the red light therapy 342 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: kind of feels like a sauna, but it's actually the 343 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: light activating year of mitochondria. And the cryo just puts 344 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: you in a really cold state, and I didn't feel 345 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 2: anything immediately after the h BOT the cryo, I felt 346 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 2: like euphorick after it when you step out, I mean 347 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: it was annoying to endure because I'm from Goa and 348 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 2: I don't like the cold and so like you know, 349 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: But when I stepped out, I felt so great. And 350 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: then the back and forth between the red light and 351 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 2: the the cryo, my body felt new and it felt 352 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 2: really great. And then that day into the next day, 353 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: I felt I didn't have my anxiety, I wasn't my 354 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: jaw and I slept incredibly. And the HPOT therapy, they 355 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 2: say one session doesn't do so much. 356 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: A breathing ocean from a muskool. 357 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a mask and it's in a closed 358 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 2: off vault, so you feel like you're in a submarine 359 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 2: that's being filled with oxygen and it is ultimately sending 360 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 2: you thirty three feet below sea level essentially, and it's 361 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: stressing your body and pushing oxygen into various parts of it. 362 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 2: And the ways that people have seen at work is 363 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: like the Mayo Clinic uses it and they say, like 364 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: twelve sessions cumulatively will help you heal things like gangreen 365 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 2: or diabetic foot or various types of skin conditions, et cetera. 366 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: And people with autism use it too, and so like, 367 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: there have been proven effects of it. It's not clear 368 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 2: whether going in as a healthy person really is that beneficial. 369 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: But whatever it was, those three things between them. I 370 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,959 Speaker 2: slept incredibly well that night, and then I came back 371 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: for the NAD drip. 372 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: And what is NAD so uh, it's an acronym. For 373 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: some kids, it's an acronym. 374 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: It's a drip that they administer, and people both swear 375 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: by it and some people say it's completely false. But 376 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: it was discovered by this guy, Lenny Guarantee, who started Elysium, 377 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 2: and he managed to transfer it from yeast into mice 378 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: into humans, and what he realized in yeast and mice 379 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: was that he could get them to live longer. It's 380 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: not clear whether NAD actually makes you live longer, partially 381 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 2: because it's hard to tell whether longevity drug is working 382 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 2: over the course of our life span, right, But it 383 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 2: does anecdotally make people more energetic. Chris guy Amali, who 384 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: you know, injects it because it relieves him of his 385 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 2: brain fog. He has got a small kid, lots of 386 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 2: people use it for that, and so I decided I 387 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: might as well try it right and in this clinic 388 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: in India, which is also fascinating because for so many 389 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: years growing up, India was decades behind what the US, 390 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 2: what was happening in the US, And here you have 391 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 2: exactly what's happening in the US happening there at a 392 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: fraction of the cost, which is really interesting. And people 393 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: from FC GOA and visiting athletes, they all go to 394 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 2: this clinic and go. But I did the NAD therapy 395 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 2: and the guys there said, I don't know if it 396 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: will work for you. Some people say the first drip 397 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 2: doesn't really work that well. But when the two doctors 398 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 2: did it, they said they played lights out cricket and 399 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 2: also had an incredible a badminton game, right like both 400 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 2: of them said this, and so I was pretty skeptical. 401 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: I did the drip. I went to sleep that night. 402 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 2: Then I played tennis the next day, and I have 403 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 2: I don't think I've played tennis that well since I 404 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: was like a teenager, Like it was unbelievable. I was 405 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 2: pushing a pro around the core and I played like 406 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: two days before and was average, And so I don't 407 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: know whether it works, but anecdotally it triggered something that 408 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: made me feel incredible on the core and sharp, And 409 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 2: I didn't have the mental thought. 410 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: You mentioned mice in the context of yeast mice, and 411 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: people only mentioned mice. Naked mole rats came into my head. 412 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: Do they come up in your podcast? 413 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 2: They don't. I mean, there's a lot of incredible stuff 414 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 2: with animals, from like how we've learned and understood genetics 415 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 2: through blue whales, which are actually more synthetical with humans 416 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: than you might imagine two tortoises to naked mole rats. 417 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 2: But the thing that does come up is mice themselves. 418 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 2: And I went to this lab at MIT with this 419 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 2: doctor PSI, and when I walked into met her. She 420 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 2: runs basically the premiere neuroscience lab in the country. And 421 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: when you walk in, you see this little screen that's 422 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 2: got mice spreading around what seems like a tiny rave 423 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: and they're like strobe lights, and there's like what is 424 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: going on? And then when I asked her about it, 425 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 2: she said that they had come up with this non 426 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: invasive therapy that is in stage three trials right now. Basically, 427 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 2: if you flash lights and you have a pulsing feeling 428 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: at your skin. It can activate gamma waves in your 429 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 2: brain to reduce the symptoms of Alzheimer's. And the idea 430 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: that you could just put on a mask and enjoy 431 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 2: it for an hour with the stimulation and then be 432 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 2: relieved of some of the symptoms of Alzheimer's was just 433 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 2: remarkable to me. 434 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: The other thing that lab I believe that you encountered 435 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: was organoids. 436 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the incredible things about doctor Ci is 437 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: that she has done something that might revolutionize personalized medicine 438 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 2: in that she can recreate your brain in the Petri dish, 439 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: and she can do it thousands of times, and she 440 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 2: basically uses six stem cells to create an organoid of 441 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 2: your brain. And then what they can do with that is, 442 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: particularly for Alzheimer's, they can manipulate it to see how 443 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: certain drugs and how certain therapeutics will affect it. And 444 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 2: so instead of using a patient as a labrat, they 445 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: can use these Petri dishes and then come up with specific, 446 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: a specific protocol for you. Wow. 447 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, this also has a more sci fi side, right, 448 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: all the more extreme versions of organoids and you know, 449 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: bodies with no heads and stuff like that. You encountered. 450 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I started the show, in the very beginning, 451 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: I talk to someone who gave me this lead about 452 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: a pitch they had received about a company that was 453 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 2: doing something they call morally gray and it was hard 454 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 2: for people to invest did it and it sort of 455 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 2: intrigued me. I dug a little more and I heard 456 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 2: that it was about this group that was creating a 457 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: farm of human clones for organ donation. 458 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: A farm of human I mean, this sounds like extremely dystopian. 459 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, and so that's kind of what I 460 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 2: was chasing. Initially. I was like asking around. More and 461 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: more people came forward. No one wanted to go on 462 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: the record, but they'd say like, oh, yeah, I'd seen 463 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: this deck or yeah I'd heard this. And then what's 464 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 2: funny is that I listened to a Tectonic podcast from 465 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 2: the Ft and they reported that someone in Singapore was 466 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: investing in this, that he was investing in this basically 467 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 2: creating a farm of clones. But the idea was that 468 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 2: the clones were created in such a way that their 469 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 2: brain function had been turned off. And the idea is 470 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 2: that like you could raise these clones that maybe didn't 471 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: have pain, didn't have feelings didn't have any sort of sentience, 472 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 2: but did have the bodies. And so that's why it's 473 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 2: kind of chasing. I couldn't quite find it. And then 474 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 2: we hear all these rumors. One of them was that 475 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 2: there was this like heiress that owned a mansion and 476 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: they were doing all sorts of health trials there and 477 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: that seemed unethical, and they were using words like eugenics 478 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 2: in a manner that didn't I didn't carry any baggage 479 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 2: to them, you know. And they were talking about germal 480 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 2: and editing and things like this, and so like there 481 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,239 Speaker 2: are all these sort of scary versions of what's going on, 482 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 2: But ultimately we found our way to this woman named 483 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 2: Alice Gilman from AR three bio. And Alice has an 484 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 2: incredible story. She grew up in Kazakhstan, loves animals. Her 485 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: grandmother had fled the Holocaust by horseback and ended up 486 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 2: like with Shallon monks or something, and like, you know, 487 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,239 Speaker 2: and she couldn't stand to watch her grandmother age. But 488 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 2: beyond that, her father had some sort of heart complication 489 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: where his life was at intense risk. And sometimes it's 490 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 2: reported as open heart surgery, sometimes it's a heart transplant 491 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 2: she said open heart surgery to me. And so she 492 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 2: was looking for any way to try to help her 493 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 2: dad live longer and ultimately other people. And so she 494 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 2: stumbles into a guy named John Schloendorn, and he's also 495 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: been in sort of the aging community for a while 496 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: and in the aging sciences, et cetera. And together they 497 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 2: were looking at doing something like this where they were 498 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 2: creating what they call an organ bag, which means a 499 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 2: body with no brain. And you know what's interesting is 500 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 2: that you talk to people in Silicon Valley about this 501 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,239 Speaker 2: and no one's really phased by it. They're like, I 502 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 2: was phased by it the first time I heard it, 503 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: but the more I thought about it, like, the more 504 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 2: okay it seemed. And you hear Alice talk about it, 505 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: it's really interesting. When I talked to her, she was 506 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: on Puerto Rico trying to figure out how to scrape 507 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 2: skin cell to create clones of monkeys. To do this 508 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: with monkeys. The idea, as she presented it to me, 509 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 2: was that if you had all these organ bags, and 510 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 2: you take out the idea that these are animals, right, 511 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: if you're just thinking about them as these testable subjects, 512 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 2: and they don't have feelings, and they don't have brain function, 513 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 2: et cetera. You can hook up a ton of them 514 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: to a tower with AI, and as a pandemic comes, 515 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 2: you have all these testable subjects and you can test 516 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 2: all your hypothesis overnight, and you can figure out a 517 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: vaccine in two weeks. And that seemed to be the 518 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 2: promise of what they were selling, right, I. 519 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: Don't know about harvesting organs from these body bags. 520 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 2: And then I asked her about that. I said, like, 521 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 2: what about and she said, well, wouldn't it be great 522 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: if you know, a billionaire needed a heart and we 523 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 2: could do this for them, and we could clone them, 524 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: And then I had all these other organs to give 525 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: to other people. But the rumor i'd heard and the 526 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: one I ultimately was chasing because it evolved from organ 527 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: farms to full body replacement, which is, if a billionaire 528 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 2: or someone were to live to seventy or eighty and 529 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: their body starts malfunctioning on them, you can do what 530 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 2: Vladimir and Putin told she. You know, you can lift 531 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: to one hundred and fifty if you replace organs, Right, 532 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: I can just continually replace my heart like it's a 533 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: part of a car or something, and maybe that could work, 534 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: but the organ rejection and the issues are real. And 535 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 2: so the point that was being bandied about in Silicon 536 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 2: Valley was like, it's actually much easier to do one 537 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 2: surgical replacement and to put an old head on a 538 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 2: new body. And this has happened before. Actually in the 539 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: seventies at a Cleveland hospital, a neurosurgeon from Case Western 540 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 2: put heads on monkeys and transferred ahead to another monkey. 541 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: And the monkey could move its eyes. It showed that 542 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 2: it was hungry, It could like move certain aspects, but 543 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: it wasn't quite connected. 544 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: If used the brain in the old head to the 545 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: spinal core of the new bodies. 546 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 2: Well yeah, and and it lived for maybe twelve days. 547 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: And they did this a number of times. But as 548 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 2: the sciences advanced, et cetera, like, there are people who 549 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: believe this should be possible. So you ask Alice about this, 550 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 2: and what she'll tell you is that, like, wouldn't you 551 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: want a new body? Wouldn't you let you know? Like, 552 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 2: and but what's funny is that I did this interview 553 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 2: in February. In March, Wired came out with the story 554 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: that talked about the kind of the mice and the 555 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: monkey part of it. And then the next day MIT 556 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 2: Tech Review came out with a fuller story of what 557 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 2: I'd heard. That they had given presentations to billionaires and 558 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 2: people who could afford a seventy thousand dollars ticket on 559 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 2: a seminar called full Body Replacement. And so if you 560 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: look at their site, it says they don't do anything 561 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: with primates, they don't do anything with like humans, that 562 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: the press has gotten it all wrong, et cetera. But 563 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 2: they've been documented circulating a pitch deck. 564 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: To this effect. So that the show is called Skyline 565 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: Drive and the subtitle is how to Live Forever Beyond 566 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: full Body Replacement. I mean, what's the answer to that question. 567 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: I think that there are a lot of people who 568 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: are looking to live forever. And it's funny because I 569 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 2: don't always know what their reason is for it. It's 570 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 2: hard to determine sometimes when people say, like, oh, don't 571 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: you want to see space? Don't you want to be 572 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: in a new age of discovery? Don't you want to 573 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 2: But when you talk about specifics, it's not always clear 574 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 2: to me what they're thinking about. But I also think 575 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 2: that a lot of people that I talked to had 576 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: severe health problems and they're looking to extend their lives 577 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: as long as they can, and they're just starting to 578 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: enjoy their lives. There's a guy, Lawrence Ion, who's the 579 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: head I think of the Longevity Floor, and he spent 580 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 2: the first twelve years of his life on a back 581 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 2: looking at hospital ceilings, you know, and had these incredibly 582 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: painful bone tumors. And you could see why as he's 583 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 2: enjoying his life in his thirties for the first time, 584 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 2: he wants to extend it. And there are all sorts 585 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 2: of incredible medical marvels and discoveries that are about to 586 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 2: take place. There's a guy who's working on a brain 587 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 2: of theseus where he's actually working to replace dead brain 588 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: cells and overcome the blood brain barrier to basically come 589 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 2: out with a new, fully functioning brain continuously, and that's stunning. 590 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 2: There's a woman named Juliette Humor who also is ill 591 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 2: and was looking for a cure for herself, and she 592 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 2: realized that menstrual blood could be harvested for stem cells, 593 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 2: and this idea of this waste product that exists everywhere 594 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 2: that could have all these healing treatments. And she's figured 595 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 2: out how to turn it. Initially, the first product she's 596 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 2: making is a therapeutic cream which completely gets rid of scars, 597 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 2: and it's fascinating, But that isn't you know where she 598 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 2: wants to end. Where she wants to end is curing it. 599 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 2: And so I don't know if people live forever. I 600 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: do know that there's a whole group of people who 601 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 2: are in their twenties and thirties and are storing their 602 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 2: blood every six months and freezing it. And the whole 603 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: reason is that they want to have a longitudinal study 604 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 2: of themselves and have blood to test against as new 605 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: therapeutics come out. 606 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to ask you, Ashiy, what is the 607 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: median age of peak fascination with living forever? 608 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 2: What do you say when I talk to people at 609 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 2: both these longevity clinics and a longevity doctor, they said, 610 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 2: people in their twenties who want to be the next 611 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 2: Brian Johnson and people in their eighties and nineties who 612 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 2: just want to extend their life. 613 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: Mengish, thank you. Just to close, all people take away 614 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: from the podcast when they listen to it, why should 615 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: they go and download and subscribe Skyline drive How to 616 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: Live Forever For their next listen. 617 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 2: I think that there's so many things happening around and 618 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 2: as in terms of health and health science, and to 619 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 2: not be aware of your choices is something that would 620 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 2: be a mistake, and to be able to learn about 621 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 2: it through a fun adventure or a romp, I think 622 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 2: feels exciting. 623 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: Thank Gosh, thank you for tech stuff. I'm as voloshin. 624 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Eliza Dennis and Shina Ozaki. 625 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: It was executive produced by me and Julia Nutta for 626 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: Kaleidoscope and Katrina norvelf iHeart Podcasts. Jack Instanly mixed this 627 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: episode and Kyle Murdoch wrote up theme song.