WEBVTT - Folklore: Dragons 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.360 Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:09.280 of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie. 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:13.320 Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:13.920 Other Side. 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.880 Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.040 everything on the other side. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.800 Yes we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic, 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.880 or to some the invisible world, life is going to 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.600 be more fun and much more serene. 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:35.640 Uh heck, yes it can. Because let's be honest, br in, 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:37.519 earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.080 That let's crush Earth School together. 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:51.400 Well, hello, my witchy pooh, stop dragging my heart around. 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:53.360 I don't know. I didn't kind of a good one, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.600 but I have a right. I spell it different than 0:00:58.640 --> 0:00:59.080 he did. 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.600 Nice, I like it. I like it a lot. So 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:06.959 today we get to talk about draker. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.800 Hell, yes we do, and speaking of dragon like using it, 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:14.119 you know, more as a verb. So you remember that 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:20.520 when Susanne and I drove to Phoenix, which is also 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.039 interesting related to this whole dragon story. But we went 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:29.640 to Phoenix, which is right after my experience when I 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:31.640 went into their world, which we'll get to at the end. 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.840 But here's what's funny. I bought this big metal dragon. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:37.920 We went to Phoenix because I picked up my my, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.080 my Ralph Lauren Ryder's chairs from this couple that was 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.039 selling them, okay, and we rented a truck. So we 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.120 have these two chairs on this truck. We decide to 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.800 stop in Sedona, because that's what you do. And I 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.440 found this big metal dragon and we tied it into 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.840 in the truck and the whole time I drove my 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.080 wife nuts. It was also of four days before that 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:02.960 was the first time I talked to somebody from the 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.520 other side. But the funny part about the dragons, I 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.600 kept saying, stop dragon, my dragon, and I just thought 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:10.880 I was so funny. And then we ended up naming 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:18.720 it Olivia Pope from the Showandal Scandal I know, Oh 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:20.840 my gosh, if I had a prize I could give 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.640 you through the screen, I would give you a prize. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:28.040 But anyway, so, so Olivia Pope sits outside of my casita. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:34.880 Oh my god, that's so hilarious. Yeah, photo, oh totally. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.000 And actually we had this kind of stump, like a 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.560 tree stump over here. I kept saying, Susanna, go, can 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.919 we put Olivia Pope on the stump and she's like, baby, 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:44.920 you can put your goddamn dragon wherever you want to. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:51.280 I said, yes, freedom to decorate with dragons. Okay, so 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.639 we're talking about dragons. I jumped in real fast to 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:54.079 that one. 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.040 You couldn't You couldn't I keep that one. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.600 I could not keep that. I have a metal dragon 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:00.679 name Olivia Pope in front of my Casidia. 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.440 I mean, come on, come on, that's pretty good, that's it. Yeah. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.480 In fact, when we moved her, she has wings, and 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.280 we somehow forgot to pack them. And you know, my 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:13.519 high school boyfriend John, well, hold on, if there's a 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.440 good ending, my high school boyfriend John and his husband 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.880 went to our house and got them and they kept them. 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:25.480 And when they drove they brought us Olivia's wings and 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.600 we all had like a little moment where we put 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:32.680 her wings on her and all was right in the world. Okay, sons, Wow, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.400 I think I said before we started, we're not going 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.440 to jump in, and I'm like, you just jumped on in. 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:36.960 Yeah. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:43.960 So here's the thing about dragons. Dragons, you know, have 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:50.760 this this presence, right, this bigness, this powerfulness, and when 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.640 I think in my typical elfin way in terms of 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:58.080 filmed entertainment, I think about, wow, well, how like this 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.200 is interesting? Like how have they been picted it? And 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.880 there's two versions I just want to quickly talk about. 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.119 And one is because I also worked on a few 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:08.960 of these movies. The do you ever see the how 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.960 How to Train Your Dragon? The animated? Okay, so I 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.280 love that. I will tell you that. I think it 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.400 was the third one. I remember we went to the 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:22.760 DreamWorks studio a lot in Los Angeles, and there's we 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.760 were about six seven of us were invited to go 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.880 watch it before we released it, and it's probably months 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.480 before we did. And I sat there and I was 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.640 crying so hard at the end of that third one 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.360 that I went and hid in the bathroom until everybody left, 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.120 because I mean I was like not presentable, like I 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.320 somebody been like what literally, what's wrong with her? Oh? 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.039 My god? I love it so much. So anyway, here's 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.919 what's interesting about that. If you think about How to 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:56.119 Train Your Dragon? It was set in kind of prehistoric 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:01.920 ish times, right. Yeah, So even they spoke in it, 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.919 because it's a movie, they didn't exactly you know, the 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:10.760 way they lived was very prehistoric, right, And tooth close 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.640 to the earth, very close to the earth, right, I 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.880 mean right, it was they used you know, fire and 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:22.360 stones and stuff like that, and a lot of mythology, right, 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.560 And actually there was a mythology in the movie about 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.360 dragons until they actually saw one who was toothless the 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.200 dragon and Footnote to everybody, if I haven't already said this, 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.240 I may have. Is the reason why we all love 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:41.520 Toothless the dragon is because they modeled Toothless after a dog. Yes, 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.960 so you like toothless wag's tail in his body and 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.320 rolls around like that's part of how he developed that 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.360 really like a puppy, how you developed the love for him. 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:58.360 So that was you know, a dragon as a friend, right, 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.680 not as a foe, not as a weapon, right, Like 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.120 that's like tooth was a part of the family effectively. 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.680 Yeah, And that that's very different lore than dragons usually have. 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:14.520 Dragons are usually something to be feared, something to be conquered, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.680 something to be avoided, like in the mythology. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.479 Right, do you want to know when that changed because 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:22.720 it actually didn't start that way. 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.440 That's correct, that's that's more modern. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:30.400 But it is it is because it was you know, 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:36.520 dragons had a they had a a a friendlier view, right. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.039 I don't know the best way to say it, but 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:38.880 it was. 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.760 It was more like I'm going to work with you. 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.440 I mean, it's more of a partnership than an adversary. Yes, right, 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.839 but this is ancient times. Well it was pre Christian, right, 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:57.120 pre Christian times. But it was something that you could 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.560 give it an assignment of of you being the gatekeeper. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.160 Right, right, right, because they they were they right. They 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.919 were seen as useful and protective and and there were 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:15.120 elements that were harmful and dangerous, but it wasn't it's like, listen, 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.000 everything's harmful and dangerous if you well. 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.240 It's harmful and dangerous if you're if you're trying to 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.840 breach the perimeter, right, then it's going to be harmful 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.440 and dangerage dangerous. But if you don't do that, it's 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.000 it's it wasn't seen as something that would just destroy 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:28.840 you on site. 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.480 Right, So so if you think about how to train 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.040 your dragon, that's like a pre Christian view. And they 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.400 were friends, and they were friends, right, I mean it 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.720 was the children's or a family movie. But and then 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:49.640 came Game of Thrones, right, So Game of Thrones they 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:54.600 they were still that still existed, meaning the useful protective 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.040 because there was because there was always family of like 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.440 within the because the Game of Three owns like the 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.920 different games were different families and all trying to see power. 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.119 And one family was like the family of dragons, and 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.600 so there was a friend. 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.520 On the one family had dragons. 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.760 Yes, okay, yes, the other ones tried to get them. 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.360 You can imagine because they were saying so powerful, right, yeah, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.440 but that had that I think if I looked at 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.600 a timeline was later than if I had to put 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.440 a timeline to how to train the dragons. So you 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.000 saw more of like the fire that they were creating 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:38.920 that would come out of their mouth. You would see 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:43.480 them like destroy right where you did. Like obviously Toothless 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.880 wasn't a destroyer boy his every move you know, he. 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.199 Was a puppy. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.800 He was a puppy. So but it is actually really 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:57.559 interesting how dragons have been depicted throughout what we can 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.960 see in time or thought of you out time and 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.880 I think even you look at the touau, right yeah, 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:06.600 so are you to show me the card? 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.680 Show you and no one else has this visual but 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.560 in my deck called the beauty of terrou The five 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.920 of fire is has a dragon sitting on top of 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.920 a roof with five flames at its feet. Right, and 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:27.559 so this, this dragon actually represents power to choose right, 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.440 power to choose to protect. 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.960 Really, well, you're either have to slay your own dragon 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:35.200 or it's going to slay you. Right. 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:41.040 Well, the dragon, the dragon is really represents yourself right 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:46.040 where others are judging you or transformation is available. So 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.120 what are you going to do? Right? Are you going 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.800 to succumb to make people happy? Or are you going 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.160 to fly away and suit yourself. 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.280 Well, I'm gonna fly away and I'm gonna like spit 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.000 fire at people. Does that count? 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:01.920 And we're going to fly away right now and take 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:10.920 a little break. We'll be right back and welcome back. 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.559 Thanks, I'm ready, I'm right. I know. I was just 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.319 messing with you. Have a little pause to be like, wait, 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:20.040 what's she gonna do? 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.400 Wait? What did I miss up there? All right? So 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.839 nerdy alf, what do you got for us? Tell us 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:26.720 more about dragon lore? 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.000 D r A g O N not d r A 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:33.040 g g I N. So it's it's it's you know, 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.120 I learned. I love this part. I love to dig 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.520 around in this and read have conversations with you about it. 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.520 I learned so much about it. So here's what's interesting 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:48.840 about at least the origin of dragons. And the interesting 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.679 part is that nobody actually knows when it began. 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:55.280 Like this just like. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.760 They don't exactly right, but it doesn't it feel so 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:04.760 ancient though, Like dragons feel like they have been a part. 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.600 I mean, if you look at where they are known, 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.559 like culture, it's you've said before when we were talking, 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.360 you know about fairies, it's it's it's a global sensation, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:22.120 kind of like Taylor Swift global sensation. And so there's 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:26.200 all parts. The one that I actually think probably has 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.760 embraced the most, and it's also credibly old culture is 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:35.160 Chinese culture. And so China has very much embraced the dragons. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:40.240 You know, in their New York celebration, they always have 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.840 dragons feature they have people that are holding them, and 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:47.640 they crazy these incredibly yeah, these credibly long dragons, and 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.360 they have dancers underneath them, and it's very much a 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.040 part of their culture. But it's but they've been seen, 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.960 you know, from America to Europe, from India to China, right, 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.360 like they've just been all over in terms of our culture. 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.800 But I do think it's interesting that we don't know 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.520 when or where. If I had guess, I still would 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.000 guess China is where it originated because it feels like 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:13.960 it's really strong there. Did you get the same? 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.200 And well, I would say documented probably documented. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.760 Okay, that's fair. Yeah, but they but what they what 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:25.960 the interneteb tells me is that these huge flying serpents 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.280 were described at least as early as the age of 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.920 the ancient Greeks and Samerians. 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:33.800 Yeah, and I think China would have been but. 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:35.160 Before that I think so too. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:35.760 Yeah. 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.520 So yeah, I'm fully with you. This is part of 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:40.840 the funny, y'all. It's like Brenda doesn't know any of 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.319 like what I'm going to talk about, and we do 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.920 it on purpose because it's more real for you guys. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:52.720 I would also say, though, even when we have like 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:58.560 dinosaurs being discovered right today, like they'll have bones, but 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.120 they'll also like find little dragons, like they you know, 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:07.640 they had little flying denisaur bones discovered in the past 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.440 couple of years, right, and they will also identify as dragons, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.760 so they're like, well this would be considered just a dragon. 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:15.080 That interesting. 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.840 Yeah, Like it. It's so like even there's there's like 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.040 legitimus to it because of because of that. 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.800 So so it's so, well, let's hit on that for 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:28.640 a second and then I'll and I'm going to pivot 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.440 us in a minute to Christianity. And what it change 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:36.280 is that you know it today. If you ask somebody 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.080 on the street, do you believe that dragons fly in 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.360 the sky, They're probably going to say no, right, unless 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.760 you're in New Orleans and it's one am, because I 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:45.440 would have said. 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:46.840 Yes then totally. 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:52.440 But that's modern day, right. So what's interesting is I 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.960 want to go back to and I always bring this 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:56.920 up because this is you know, I did not learn 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.199 history in high school because I went to MoMA, Oklahoma 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.560 High School. But I have had to like postpone that 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.640 part of my life, so at least now I remember 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.640 it because it's all recent to me. Is that what's 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:13.199 interesting about the evolution of mankind and I don't mean 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:18.800 physical evolution, I mean more of our reading writing, like 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:24.440 just being literate. Right, so when we were illiterate, there 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.200 is a pattern that has emerged over the last five 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.240 hundred plus years. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned this 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:37.600 about the fairies. Is what happens is we don't you 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.240 know people, you know, they create stories, they tell stories. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:45.480 Sometimes it's for morality reasons, sometimes it's actually for control reasons. 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.960 And then you start to get the artists involved and 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:55.200 then they start to create something different for it. And 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.600 that is certainly you know what has happened with the 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.800 Draggans in terms of what people believe that dragons were real. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.160 They started to dig up during that time, these very 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:11.320 large bones, right, so they're digging up large bones around 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.800 the world believing they're from dragons, but they were dinosaurs 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.040 because we were illiterate. 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.600 And I mean they just didn't know. 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.680 They didn't know. But so science, literacy, those things I 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.640 suldly add science. So science and literacy is the reason 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:32.720 why you can ask somebody unless they're hammered in uh, 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.920 in the French Quarter in any city really, but New 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.440 Orleans is a favor of mine. They're like, no, they're 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:46.000 not flying around, right because of literacy and science. But 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.360 imagine before that and you're digging up this bony. You've 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:55.560 heard stories of this magical wing creature that's like spit 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.280 fire doing whatever it's doing. You're like, damn, it's got 0:15:59.280 --> 0:15:59.800 to be real. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.240 Yeah, so these are here it is. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.480 Yeah, they were very real to people, and I think 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.240 that's so important for us to understand. These were very 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.120 very real. So and I just want to add that 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.200 to your point about when people were finding like the 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.600 dinosaurs and finding little you know, bones and that they 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.440 say like they were dragons. So I'm going to pivot 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.680 back to Christianity because this is really interesting. Are you 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.560 ready for me to pivot back to Christianity? Okay, So 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.880 remember we've been talking pre christian Now we're going to 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.920 hit this Christianity. And so when Christianity anity started spread 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:40.239 across the globe, dragons took on a very different interpretation 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.600 than what they did prior. Right, because prior they were useful, 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:49.080 protective things like that. Christianity hit and it took it 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:58.680 hit boom, Christianity hit, Christianity hashtag Christianity hit and they 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.600 became very sinister. Right. There wasn't the there was no 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.520 benevolence to it. There wasn't like I'm going to protect you. 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.439 There wasn't like, you know, toothless type of vision. Became 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:18.840 very sinister because what the Christians did is that they 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:24.000 they turned it to represent Satan. We've talked before about this, 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.119 and it's okay if people don't believe, but the history 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.639 books do show that that Christianity invented Satan. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.520 Yeah, there was no devil in the Bible before the 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:38.960 I get it. I can't. It's gone on my head 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.200 that the one conclave that they had and then they decided, 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.960 we couldn't get people to comply, so we have to 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:45.680 invent the devil. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:46.640 We have to scare them. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.520 Yeah, we have to create compliance. Yeah. Right, And so 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.399 they took something that was powerful and meaningful to the 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.919 two cultures and they said you are now mine, and 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.960 we're making you the devil. Right, I mean, that's they 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.399 They kind of took out took the the figure of 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.680 the dragon, and that's what they base say. 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.520 That they did. In fact, I think, okay, I'm going 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.040 to confess I did, like go to episcopal charts and stuff, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.280 but that's actually part of my life. I don't remember, so, 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:20.920 but but I do have this in front of me. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:29.800 Is that a character in the Bible, let's say Levithan. Okay, 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.280 there is a massive monster described in detail in the 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:39.000 Book of Job chapter forty one, and that sounds like 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:45.640 a dragon. So this is after revisions, right, and this 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.600 is all in quotes. It is. It's back has rows 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.000 of shields, tightly sealed together, each so close to the 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.640 next that no air can pass between. They are joined 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.800 fast to one another. They cling together and not be parted. 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.840 Its snorting throws out flashes of light. Its eyes are 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:10.080 like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from the mouth, 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.760 Sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:19.760 as from a boat boiling pot over burning reeds. Its 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.639 breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth. 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:27.200 Sounds like a dragon. 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.359 Yeah, the Beleef and Dragons was based not just on legend, 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:37.240 but well actually they created a legend and and and 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.680 and it's interesting right because all like this has been written. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.560 People were finding bones, they're putting pieces together. It's kind 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.520 of like, you know, it does remind me a little 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.840 bit of Bigfoot, even because like anybody who finds a 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.280 large but like, oh, this is what bigfoot. I have 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.040 a picture of Bigfoot or I saw Bigfoot, you know. 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.600 So it's just it's just it's it's fascinating. It's the 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.960 our journey as humans. Right again, I'm going back to 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:11.480 literacy and science. It's a really interesting path because you know, 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.879 I've studied quite a bit about the UH about the 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:22.480 Spanish conquistadors, and and what you find and what I 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.879 have found while researching this is it's very much the 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:30.400 same pattern. Because it's like early days like the Aztecs, 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.200 the Incas, the Mayans. You know, they they believed in 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.520 multiple gods. They believe that when the sun came up, 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.760 it's because one of their gods said it was okay, right, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.720 kind of like dragons in that in that respect, and 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.160 then and and an event happens. And so in this 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:54.520 case with the tribes of South America, uh, it was 0:20:54.600 --> 0:21:00.120 the Spaniards. In the case of dragons, it's the Christianity. 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.080 They were kind of both the same thing, just different times. 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:11.840 But then you know, then you start seeing more propaganda, right, 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:18.000 So the Christians started propagandatizing the dragons, and they start 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.119 propagandisizing them also through their art. So you would have 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:25.480 artists that would start to paint what they thought a 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.280 dragon looked like. But they always had a man slaying 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:33.520 the dragon, right, so like this man is killing Satan, 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.160 killing the devil, and man's in charge, like we can, 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.520 we can conquer you know anything. They did the same 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:45.240 thing to Montezuma the Aztecs, where once Montezuma was killed, 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:50.400 you have a lot of the French artists, Spanish, English, 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.560 Italian artists that started creating these portraits of Montezuma as 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:58.480 this very small weak man being conquered by a Spaniard. 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:00.920 So everything's about in a part of our history is 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:06.080 about conquering, right, But you see this happen and like, honestly, 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.720 I was reading this stuff going this all sounds like 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.960 the Spanish Conquista doors as I'm reading through in a 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.360 granted it was thousands of thousands of years prior to that, 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.840 but it was still the kind of the conquering and 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:21.159 the and the but still the pattern of it. 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.040 Right, It's like something that's never changed. 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:24.919 Yeah, well something so changed. It's like, oh, we're going 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.160 to grab onto this, We're going to turn it into 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.320 this and we're going to show how man conk it's 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:31.840 always a man, not a woman, FYI, And how band 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.439 conquers this, whether it's an actual person like Montezuma, or 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.200 it's a creature like a dragon that they turned into 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:42.280 a devil, it's just a really you'd think we're having 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:46.480 a history podcast right now. I just felt really smart 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:48.480 for a minute minutes up. 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:55.440 Yeah, it's and I do think the fact that if 0:22:55.440 --> 0:23:02.200 you go back to you know, that part of looking 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:07.400 at art, you'll see so many dragons, some of them 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.280 watching in the background, some of them literally you know, 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:14.399 like you said, the in the focus being slave. But 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:17.240 there's a lot of representation. 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:21.560 So many, right, and they were using like some of 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:25.359 them had heads that looked more like lions, some of 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.200 the heads look more like serpents, you know, Like it 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.480 depends upon where in the world the art was being created. 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.720 It was taking from their own culture, and I just 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:37.840 think it's a really fascinating thing. It's like, oh I 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:40.560 just actually found right, I learned this from It's like 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:44.639 the elephant in India, or that of a lion or 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.359 bird of prey in the Middle East, you know, or 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:52.000 numerous heads of reptiles such as serpents. So depending upon 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:58.520 where the art was being created, Yeah, that's what that 0:23:59.040 --> 0:23:59.879 dragon looked like. 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:03.760 Yeah, depending on the culture, what visual it needed. 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:08.120 And color of the body. That's another interesting thing because 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:11.320 you know, they range from and I've seen all of 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:16.520 these green, red, black and usually yellow for the record, 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:21.000 which I find fascinating, but you also see blue and 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:23.320 you see white dragons, which we'll talk to in our 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:27.480 next section. But it is a very it is a 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:32.840 you know, this is I think the dragon lore, I 0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:35.800 guess we call it. That is one of the more 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:37.879