Speaker 1: Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2: Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Speaker 2: Other Side.
Speaker 1: Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
Speaker 1: everything on the other side.
Speaker 2: Yes we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
Speaker 2: or to some the invisible world, life is going to
Speaker 2: be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1: Uh heck, yes it can. Because let's be honest, br in,
Speaker 1: earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2: That let's crush Earth School together.
Speaker 1: Well, hello, my witchy pooh, stop dragging my heart around.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't kind of a good one,
Speaker 1: but I have a right. I spell it different than
Speaker 1: he did.
Speaker 2: Nice, I like it. I like it a lot. So
Speaker 2: today we get to talk about draker.
Speaker 1: Hell, yes we do, and speaking of dragon like using it,
Speaker 1: you know, more as a verb. So you remember that
Speaker 1: when Susanne and I drove to Phoenix, which is also
Speaker 1: interesting related to this whole dragon story. But we went
Speaker 1: to Phoenix, which is right after my experience when I
Speaker 1: went into their world, which we'll get to at the end.
Speaker 1: But here's what's funny. I bought this big metal dragon.
Speaker 1: We went to Phoenix because I picked up my my,
Speaker 1: my Ralph Lauren Ryder's chairs from this couple that was
Speaker 1: selling them, okay, and we rented a truck. So we
Speaker 1: have these two chairs on this truck. We decide to
Speaker 1: stop in Sedona, because that's what you do. And I
Speaker 1: found this big metal dragon and we tied it into
Speaker 1: in the truck and the whole time I drove my
Speaker 1: wife nuts. It was also of four days before that
Speaker 1: was the first time I talked to somebody from the
Speaker 1: other side. But the funny part about the dragons, I
Speaker 1: kept saying, stop dragon, my dragon, and I just thought
Speaker 1: I was so funny. And then we ended up naming
Speaker 1: it Olivia Pope from the Showandal Scandal I know, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, if I had a prize I could give
Speaker 1: you through the screen, I would give you a prize.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so, so Olivia Pope sits outside of my casita.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so hilarious. Yeah, photo, oh totally.
Speaker 1: And actually we had this kind of stump, like a
Speaker 1: tree stump over here. I kept saying, Susanna, go, can
Speaker 1: we put Olivia Pope on the stump and she's like, baby,
Speaker 1: you can put your goddamn dragon wherever you want to.
Speaker 1: I said, yes, freedom to decorate with dragons. Okay, so
Speaker 1: we're talking about dragons. I jumped in real fast to
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 2: You couldn't You couldn't I keep that one.
Speaker 1: I could not keep that. I have a metal dragon
Speaker 1: name Olivia Pope in front of my Casidia.
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, come on, that's pretty good, that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: In fact, when we moved her, she has wings, and
Speaker 1: we somehow forgot to pack them. And you know, my
Speaker 1: high school boyfriend John, well, hold on, if there's a
Speaker 1: good ending, my high school boyfriend John and his husband
Speaker 1: went to our house and got them and they kept them.
Speaker 1: And when they drove they brought us Olivia's wings and
Speaker 1: we all had like a little moment where we put
Speaker 1: her wings on her and all was right in the world. Okay, sons, Wow,
Speaker 1: I think I said before we started, we're not going
Speaker 1: to jump in, and I'm like, you just jumped on in.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing about dragons. Dragons, you know, have
Speaker 1: this this presence, right, this bigness, this powerfulness, and when
Speaker 1: I think in my typical elfin way in terms of
Speaker 1: filmed entertainment, I think about, wow, well, how like this
Speaker 1: is interesting? Like how have they been picted it? And
Speaker 1: there's two versions I just want to quickly talk about.
Speaker 1: And one is because I also worked on a few
Speaker 1: of these movies. The do you ever see the how
Speaker 1: How to Train Your Dragon? The animated? Okay, so I
Speaker 1: love that. I will tell you that. I think it
Speaker 1: was the third one. I remember we went to the
Speaker 1: DreamWorks studio a lot in Los Angeles, and there's we
Speaker 1: were about six seven of us were invited to go
Speaker 1: watch it before we released it, and it's probably months
Speaker 1: before we did. And I sat there and I was
Speaker 1: crying so hard at the end of that third one
Speaker 1: that I went and hid in the bathroom until everybody left,
Speaker 1: because I mean I was like not presentable, like I
Speaker 1: somebody been like what literally, what's wrong with her? Oh?
Speaker 1: My god? I love it so much. So anyway, here's
Speaker 1: what's interesting about that. If you think about How to
Speaker 1: Train Your Dragon? It was set in kind of prehistoric
Speaker 1: ish times, right. Yeah, So even they spoke in it,
Speaker 1: because it's a movie, they didn't exactly you know, the
Speaker 1: way they lived was very prehistoric, right, And tooth close
Speaker 1: to the earth, very close to the earth, right, I
Speaker 1: mean right, it was they used you know, fire and
Speaker 1: stones and stuff like that, and a lot of mythology, right,
Speaker 1: And actually there was a mythology in the movie about
Speaker 1: dragons until they actually saw one who was toothless the
Speaker 1: dragon and Footnote to everybody, if I haven't already said this,
Speaker 1: I may have. Is the reason why we all love
Speaker 1: Toothless the dragon is because they modeled Toothless after a dog. Yes,
Speaker 1: so you like toothless wag's tail in his body and
Speaker 1: rolls around like that's part of how he developed that
Speaker 1: really like a puppy, how you developed the love for him.
Speaker 1: So that was you know, a dragon as a friend, right,
Speaker 1: not as a foe, not as a weapon, right, Like
Speaker 1: that's like tooth was a part of the family effectively.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that that's very different lore than dragons usually have.
Speaker 2: Dragons are usually something to be feared, something to be conquered,
Speaker 2: something to be avoided, like in the mythology.
Speaker 1: Right, do you want to know when that changed because
Speaker 1: it actually didn't start that way.
Speaker 2: That's correct, that's that's more modern.
Speaker 1: But it is it is because it was you know,
Speaker 1: dragons had a they had a a a friendlier view, right.
Speaker 1: I don't know the best way to say it, but
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: It was more like I'm going to work with you.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's more of a partnership than an adversary. Yes, right,
Speaker 2: but this is ancient times. Well it was pre Christian, right,
Speaker 2: pre Christian times. But it was something that you could
Speaker 2: give it an assignment of of you being the gatekeeper.
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, because they they were they right. They
Speaker 1: were seen as useful and protective and and there were
Speaker 1: elements that were harmful and dangerous, but it wasn't it's like, listen,
Speaker 1: everything's harmful and dangerous if you well.
Speaker 2: It's harmful and dangerous if you're if you're trying to
Speaker 2: breach the perimeter, right, then it's going to be harmful
Speaker 2: and dangerage dangerous. But if you don't do that, it's
Speaker 2: it's it wasn't seen as something that would just destroy
Speaker 2: you on site.
Speaker 1: Right, So so if you think about how to train
Speaker 1: your dragon, that's like a pre Christian view. And they
Speaker 1: were friends, and they were friends, right, I mean it
Speaker 1: was the children's or a family movie. But and then
Speaker 1: came Game of Thrones, right, So Game of Thrones they
Speaker 1: they were still that still existed, meaning the useful protective
Speaker 1: because there was because there was always family of like
Speaker 1: within the because the Game of Three owns like the
Speaker 1: different games were different families and all trying to see power.
Speaker 1: And one family was like the family of dragons, and
Speaker 1: so there was a friend.
Speaker 2: On the one family had dragons.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, yes, the other ones tried to get them.
Speaker 1: You can imagine because they were saying so powerful, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: but that had that I think if I looked at
Speaker 1: a timeline was later than if I had to put
Speaker 1: a timeline to how to train the dragons. So you
Speaker 1: saw more of like the fire that they were creating
Speaker 1: that would come out of their mouth. You would see
Speaker 1: them like destroy right where you did. Like obviously Toothless
Speaker 1: wasn't a destroyer boy his every move you know, he.
Speaker 2: Was a puppy.
Speaker 1: He was a puppy. So but it is actually really
Speaker 1: interesting how dragons have been depicted throughout what we can
Speaker 1: see in time or thought of you out time and
Speaker 1: I think even you look at the touau, right yeah,
Speaker 1: so are you to show me the card?
Speaker 2: Show you and no one else has this visual but
Speaker 2: in my deck called the beauty of terrou The five
Speaker 2: of fire is has a dragon sitting on top of
Speaker 2: a roof with five flames at its feet. Right, and
Speaker 2: so this, this dragon actually represents power to choose right,
Speaker 2: power to choose to protect.
Speaker 1: Really, well, you're either have to slay your own dragon
Speaker 1: or it's going to slay you. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, the dragon, the dragon is really represents yourself right
Speaker 2: where others are judging you or transformation is available. So
Speaker 2: what are you going to do? Right? Are you going
Speaker 2: to succumb to make people happy? Or are you going
Speaker 2: to fly away and suit yourself.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna fly away and I'm gonna like spit
Speaker 1: fire at people. Does that count?
Speaker 2: And we're going to fly away right now and take
Speaker 2: a little break. We'll be right back and welcome back.
Speaker 1: Thanks, I'm ready, I'm right. I know. I was just
Speaker 1: messing with you. Have a little pause to be like, wait,
Speaker 1: what's she gonna do?
Speaker 2: Wait? What did I miss up there? All right? So
Speaker 2: nerdy alf, what do you got for us? Tell us
Speaker 2: more about dragon lore?
Speaker 1: D r A g O N not d r A
Speaker 1: g g I N. So it's it's it's you know,
Speaker 1: I learned. I love this part. I love to dig
Speaker 1: around in this and read have conversations with you about it.
Speaker 1: I learned so much about it. So here's what's interesting
Speaker 1: about at least the origin of dragons. And the interesting
Speaker 1: part is that nobody actually knows when it began.
Speaker 2: Like this just like.
Speaker 1: They don't exactly right, but it doesn't it feel so
Speaker 1: ancient though, Like dragons feel like they have been a part.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at where they are known,
Speaker 1: like culture, it's you've said before when we were talking,
Speaker 1: you know about fairies, it's it's it's a global sensation,
Speaker 1: kind of like Taylor Swift global sensation. And so there's
Speaker 1: all parts. The one that I actually think probably has
Speaker 1: embraced the most, and it's also credibly old culture is
Speaker 1: Chinese culture. And so China has very much embraced the dragons.
Speaker 1: You know, in their New York celebration, they always have
Speaker 1: dragons feature they have people that are holding them, and
Speaker 1: they crazy these incredibly yeah, these credibly long dragons, and
Speaker 1: they have dancers underneath them, and it's very much a
Speaker 1: part of their culture. But it's but they've been seen,
Speaker 1: you know, from America to Europe, from India to China, right,
Speaker 1: like they've just been all over in terms of our culture.
Speaker 1: But I do think it's interesting that we don't know
Speaker 1: when or where. If I had guess, I still would
Speaker 1: guess China is where it originated because it feels like
Speaker 1: it's really strong there. Did you get the same?
Speaker 2: And well, I would say documented probably documented.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fair. Yeah, but they but what they what
Speaker 1: the interneteb tells me is that these huge flying serpents
Speaker 1: were described at least as early as the age of
Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks and Samerians.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think China would have been but.
Speaker 1: Before that I think so too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm fully with you. This is part of
Speaker 1: the funny, y'all. It's like Brenda doesn't know any of
Speaker 1: like what I'm going to talk about, and we do
Speaker 1: it on purpose because it's more real for you guys.
Speaker 2: I would also say, though, even when we have like
Speaker 2: dinosaurs being discovered right today, like they'll have bones, but
Speaker 2: they'll also like find little dragons, like they you know,
Speaker 2: they had little flying denisaur bones discovered in the past
Speaker 2: couple of years, right, and they will also identify as dragons,
Speaker 2: so they're like, well this would be considered just a dragon.
Speaker 1: That interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it. It's so like even there's there's like
Speaker 2: legitimus to it because of because of that.
Speaker 1: So so it's so, well, let's hit on that for
Speaker 1: a second and then I'll and I'm going to pivot
Speaker 1: us in a minute to Christianity. And what it change
Speaker 1: is that you know it today. If you ask somebody
Speaker 1: on the street, do you believe that dragons fly in
Speaker 1: the sky, They're probably going to say no, right, unless
Speaker 1: you're in New Orleans and it's one am, because I
Speaker 1: would have said.
Speaker 2: Yes then totally.
Speaker 1: But that's modern day, right. So what's interesting is I
Speaker 1: want to go back to and I always bring this
Speaker 1: up because this is you know, I did not learn
Speaker 1: history in high school because I went to MoMA, Oklahoma
Speaker 1: High School. But I have had to like postpone that
Speaker 1: part of my life, so at least now I remember
Speaker 1: it because it's all recent to me. Is that what's
Speaker 1: interesting about the evolution of mankind and I don't mean
Speaker 1: physical evolution, I mean more of our reading writing, like
Speaker 1: just being literate. Right, so when we were illiterate, there
Speaker 1: is a pattern that has emerged over the last five
Speaker 1: hundred plus years. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned this
Speaker 1: about the fairies. Is what happens is we don't you
Speaker 1: know people, you know, they create stories, they tell stories.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's for morality reasons, sometimes it's actually for control reasons.
Speaker 1: And then you start to get the artists involved and
Speaker 1: then they start to create something different for it. And
Speaker 1: that is certainly you know what has happened with the
Speaker 1: Draggans in terms of what people believe that dragons were real.
Speaker 1: They started to dig up during that time, these very
Speaker 1: large bones, right, so they're digging up large bones around
Speaker 1: the world believing they're from dragons, but they were dinosaurs
Speaker 1: because we were illiterate.
Speaker 2: And I mean they just didn't know.
Speaker 1: They didn't know. But so science, literacy, those things I
Speaker 1: suldly add science. So science and literacy is the reason
Speaker 1: why you can ask somebody unless they're hammered in uh,
Speaker 1: in the French Quarter in any city really, but New
Speaker 1: Orleans is a favor of mine. They're like, no, they're
Speaker 1: not flying around, right because of literacy and science. But
Speaker 1: imagine before that and you're digging up this bony. You've
Speaker 1: heard stories of this magical wing creature that's like spit
Speaker 1: fire doing whatever it's doing. You're like, damn, it's got
Speaker 1: to be real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so these are here it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were very real to people, and I think
Speaker 1: that's so important for us to understand. These were very
Speaker 1: very real. So and I just want to add that
Speaker 1: to your point about when people were finding like the
Speaker 1: dinosaurs and finding little you know, bones and that they
Speaker 1: say like they were dragons. So I'm going to pivot
Speaker 1: back to Christianity because this is really interesting. Are you
Speaker 1: ready for me to pivot back to Christianity? Okay, So
Speaker 1: remember we've been talking pre christian Now we're going to
Speaker 1: hit this Christianity. And so when Christianity anity started spread
Speaker 1: across the globe, dragons took on a very different interpretation
Speaker 1: than what they did prior. Right, because prior they were useful,
Speaker 1: protective things like that. Christianity hit and it took it
Speaker 1: hit boom, Christianity hit, Christianity hashtag Christianity hit and they
Speaker 1: became very sinister. Right. There wasn't the there was no
Speaker 1: benevolence to it. There wasn't like I'm going to protect you.
Speaker 1: There wasn't like, you know, toothless type of vision. Became
Speaker 1: very sinister because what the Christians did is that they
Speaker 1: they turned it to represent Satan. We've talked before about this,
Speaker 1: and it's okay if people don't believe, but the history
Speaker 1: books do show that that Christianity invented Satan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no devil in the Bible before the
Speaker 2: I get it. I can't. It's gone on my head
Speaker 2: that the one conclave that they had and then they decided,
Speaker 2: we couldn't get people to comply, so we have to
Speaker 2: invent the devil.
Speaker 1: We have to scare them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to create compliance. Yeah. Right, And so
Speaker 2: they took something that was powerful and meaningful to the
Speaker 2: two cultures and they said you are now mine, and
Speaker 2: we're making you the devil. Right, I mean, that's they
Speaker 2: They kind of took out took the the figure of
Speaker 2: the dragon, and that's what they base say.
Speaker 1: That they did. In fact, I think, okay, I'm going
Speaker 1: to confess I did, like go to episcopal charts and stuff,
Speaker 1: but that's actually part of my life. I don't remember, so,
Speaker 1: but but I do have this in front of me.
Speaker 1: Is that a character in the Bible, let's say Levithan. Okay,
Speaker 1: there is a massive monster described in detail in the
Speaker 1: Book of Job chapter forty one, and that sounds like
Speaker 1: a dragon. So this is after revisions, right, and this
Speaker 1: is all in quotes. It is. It's back has rows
Speaker 1: of shields, tightly sealed together, each so close to the
Speaker 1: next that no air can pass between. They are joined
Speaker 1: fast to one another. They cling together and not be parted.
Speaker 1: Its snorting throws out flashes of light. Its eyes are
Speaker 1: like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from the mouth,
Speaker 1: Sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils
Speaker 1: as from a boat boiling pot over burning reeds. Its
Speaker 1: breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth.
Speaker 2: Sounds like a dragon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Beleef and Dragons was based not just on legend,
Speaker 1: but well actually they created a legend and and and
Speaker 1: and it's interesting right because all like this has been written.
Speaker 1: People were finding bones, they're putting pieces together. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, it does remind me a little
Speaker 1: bit of Bigfoot, even because like anybody who finds a
Speaker 1: large but like, oh, this is what bigfoot. I have
Speaker 1: a picture of Bigfoot or I saw Bigfoot, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's just it's just it's it's fascinating. It's the
Speaker 1: our journey as humans. Right again, I'm going back to
Speaker 1: literacy and science. It's a really interesting path because you know,
Speaker 1: I've studied quite a bit about the UH about the
Speaker 1: Spanish conquistadors, and and what you find and what I
Speaker 1: have found while researching this is it's very much the
Speaker 1: same pattern. Because it's like early days like the Aztecs,
Speaker 1: the Incas, the Mayans. You know, they they believed in
Speaker 1: multiple gods. They believe that when the sun came up,
Speaker 1: it's because one of their gods said it was okay, right,
Speaker 1: kind of like dragons in that in that respect, and
Speaker 1: then and and an event happens. And so in this
Speaker 1: case with the tribes of South America, uh, it was
Speaker 1: the Spaniards. In the case of dragons, it's the Christianity.
Speaker 1: They were kind of both the same thing, just different times.
Speaker 1: But then you know, then you start seeing more propaganda, right,
Speaker 1: So the Christians started propagandatizing the dragons, and they start
Speaker 1: propagandisizing them also through their art. So you would have
Speaker 1: artists that would start to paint what they thought a
Speaker 1: dragon looked like. But they always had a man slaying
Speaker 1: the dragon, right, so like this man is killing Satan,
Speaker 1: killing the devil, and man's in charge, like we can,
Speaker 1: we can conquer you know anything. They did the same
Speaker 1: thing to Montezuma the Aztecs, where once Montezuma was killed,
Speaker 1: you have a lot of the French artists, Spanish, English,
Speaker 1: Italian artists that started creating these portraits of Montezuma as
Speaker 1: this very small weak man being conquered by a Spaniard.
Speaker 1: So everything's about in a part of our history is
Speaker 1: about conquering, right, But you see this happen and like, honestly,
Speaker 1: I was reading this stuff going this all sounds like
Speaker 1: the Spanish Conquista doors as I'm reading through in a
Speaker 1: granted it was thousands of thousands of years prior to that,
Speaker 1: but it was still the kind of the conquering and
Speaker 1: the and the but still the pattern of it.
Speaker 2: Right, It's like something that's never changed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well something so changed. It's like, oh, we're going
Speaker 1: to grab onto this, We're going to turn it into
Speaker 1: this and we're going to show how man conk it's
Speaker 1: always a man, not a woman, FYI, And how band
Speaker 1: conquers this, whether it's an actual person like Montezuma, or
Speaker 1: it's a creature like a dragon that they turned into
Speaker 1: a devil, it's just a really you'd think we're having
Speaker 1: a history podcast right now. I just felt really smart
Speaker 1: for a minute minutes up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and I do think the fact that if
Speaker 2: you go back to you know, that part of looking
Speaker 2: at art, you'll see so many dragons, some of them
Speaker 2: watching in the background, some of them literally you know,
Speaker 2: like you said, the in the focus being slave. But
Speaker 2: there's a lot of representation.
Speaker 1: So many, right, and they were using like some of
Speaker 1: them had heads that looked more like lions, some of
Speaker 1: the heads look more like serpents, you know, Like it
Speaker 1: depends upon where in the world the art was being created.
Speaker 1: It was taking from their own culture, and I just
Speaker 1: think it's a really fascinating thing. It's like, oh I
Speaker 1: just actually found right, I learned this from It's like
Speaker 1: the elephant in India, or that of a lion or
Speaker 1: bird of prey in the Middle East, you know, or
Speaker 1: numerous heads of reptiles such as serpents. So depending upon
Speaker 1: where the art was being created, Yeah, that's what that
Speaker 1: dragon looked like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, depending on the culture, what visual it needed.
Speaker 1: And color of the body. That's another interesting thing because
Speaker 1: you know, they range from and I've seen all of
Speaker 1: these green, red, black and usually yellow for the record,
Speaker 1: which I find fascinating, but you also see blue and
Speaker 1: you see white dragons, which we'll talk to in our
Speaker 1: next section. But it is a very it is a
Speaker 1: you know, this is I think the dragon lore, I
Speaker 1: guess we call it. That is one of the more
Speaker 1: I think they're all fascinating. Don't get me wrong. I
Speaker 1: mean I dig the ls, dig the fairies. We're gonna
Speaker 1: keep going on this whole thing. But the dragons, the
Speaker 1: presence that they have, and how it has been contorted, Like, honestly,
Speaker 1: you don't see the contortion of the story of the fairies,
Speaker 1: you don't see the contortion of the stories of the elves,
Speaker 1: but you see the contortion of the stories of the dragons.
Speaker 2: Well. The other thing is though that also in the
Speaker 2: fairies tend to have a human form, right related, and
Speaker 2: the dragons are not human form at all. They are
Speaker 2: their own special magic.
Speaker 1: And it's a good point. Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that they have a lot of power.
Speaker 2: And I mean Christianity is known for taking things that
Speaker 2: are valued and powerful in other cultures and making it
Speaker 2: part of their own new lore that they need to change, right,
Speaker 2: it's why we have Christmas near solstice because they knew,
Speaker 2: you know, the solstice was powerful for the Celtic people
Speaker 2: and they needed to get them on board, and that's
Speaker 2: why they put Jesus' birthday in December.
Speaker 1: Right, A bunch of hijackers, Well.
Speaker 2: They're opportunists for sure.
Speaker 1: That's a much nicer way than what I just call
Speaker 1: saying hijacking. But listen, it is fascinating, right, Like, I
Speaker 1: still love this whole topic.
Speaker 2: And that's why it's really great just to know the
Speaker 2: history of things, know where things come from.
Speaker 1: It's so fascinating.
Speaker 2: We do. Yes, we'll be right back.
Speaker 1: All right, y'all, we're going to stop dragging your time around.
Speaker 2: And we are going to wrap this thing right, which
Speaker 2: how dragons are real for us, so you can share
Speaker 2: with us how dragons are real for you. So we
Speaker 2: all get to work with dragons in our own way,
Speaker 2: and we can call them in and invoke them or
Speaker 2: just acknowledge them when they show up, and we don't
Speaker 2: have to be afraid and try and control them or
Speaker 2: slay them. But so I have traditionally worked with dragons
Speaker 2: in the traditional way I understand them, which is as
Speaker 2: gatekeepers and one time I was visiting with a client
Speaker 2: in my office and we get to the end of
Speaker 2: the consultation and she said, well, I have one question,
Speaker 2: and I was like, okay, what's your question. She says,
Speaker 2: what's the dragon in the corner doing. I said, that
Speaker 2: is none of your business?
Speaker 1: The best answer ever, By the way, it's not your
Speaker 1: budess not.
Speaker 2: It's not your business. Our business is done here, thank
Speaker 2: you very much. She ended up to, you know, be
Speaker 2: a steady and work on her clairvoyants and her intuition.
Speaker 2: And it was a great student and saw dragons and
Speaker 2: work with dragons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying that they are real and they are
Speaker 2: powerful and use them. So I hope, I hope people
Speaker 2: will find their way. So now, my elf, I know
Speaker 2: you have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do, And I have actually told a story.
Speaker 1: I'll do a short version of it, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to relate it back to the very beginning of when
Speaker 1: I like literally jumped off the cliff. I got so
Speaker 1: excited and start track talking about dragons when we first
Speaker 1: started literally after hello, I have a dragon named Olivia Poe.
Speaker 1: So what happened days a couple of days before that
Speaker 1: trip was I had my own trip, and I was transported.
Speaker 1: I mean, we can call it a dream, but I
Speaker 1: was utterly transported. So I found myself while I was
Speaker 1: sleeping in this other world and part of it looked
Speaker 1: like our world. I was up on this kind of
Speaker 1: a mountain. It's where I could see down upon a
Speaker 1: town and what I remember seeing a dragon, very large dragon,
Speaker 1: and it was a metal dragon because I could hear
Speaker 1: the clicking and you could see and it was flying
Speaker 1: and it was flying through or like through the town
Speaker 1: or the city, around the buildings, not hurting anything, hurting anybody.
Speaker 1: And it was early in my own journey, spiritual journey,
Speaker 1: and it came up to me and I'm just talking
Speaker 1: to like, I'm talking to you, and I pulled out
Speaker 1: my phone to take a picture because that was like
Speaker 1: the early ghost photographer days, and it said that doesn't
Speaker 1: work here. I'm like okay, and I'm with these other people.
Speaker 1: And I had a car there, which is very weird.
Speaker 2: And the camera won't work, but the car will.
Speaker 1: But apparently I can. I can't have a camera, but
Speaker 1: I can have a car nice And so that I
Speaker 1: don't remember exactly what happened with that dragon left or
Speaker 1: whatever it was, and something I think he said some
Speaker 1: about you can't paste that picture. Maybe there's some about
Speaker 1: audio or something that he said to me, and it
Speaker 1: was a he I don't know. And then there was
Speaker 1: this little because when we talked about color being white,
Speaker 1: that I experienced this white wispy type of drag is
Speaker 1: smaller and I could still see it to this day,
Speaker 1: this white whispy dragging like makes his way over or
Speaker 1: her way over to me and full on starts to
Speaker 1: talk to my ass, not my ass, but me, and
Speaker 1: it's like, here, you must follow me. I have a
Speaker 1: very important message for you. And so I follow this
Speaker 1: dragon and we go back to my car, which had
Speaker 1: a hatchback.
Speaker 2: I mean, whatever, it's it's my dream I can have
Speaker 2: a hatchback.
Speaker 1: I guess. I mean when when I tell you what
Speaker 1: the dragon said, it kind of makes sense why I
Speaker 1: had a hatchback, and the dragon said everything you need
Speaker 1: to know is in here. I think the car was
Speaker 1: me just for the record, and I could see through
Speaker 1: the glass of the hatchback that there were file boxes
Speaker 1: so everything. So I but I remember I woke up
Speaker 1: from this and I and Susanne always wakes up before me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a late sleeper, so you know, our
Speaker 1: clocks are hours off of one another. And I like,
Speaker 1: get up out of the I'm like charging into the
Speaker 1: living room, where I knew she'd be drinking coffee, and
Speaker 1: I said, did you see the dragons last night? And
Speaker 1: she goes, what, I said, where's my phone? Just what
Speaker 1: is wrong with you? I said, I might have the
Speaker 1: picture of a dragon. I might not. I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe there's an audio file. Da da da da da.
Speaker 1: And She's like, what the hell's going on. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but did you see him? I mean,
Speaker 1: like it was that real, right? And of course that's
Speaker 1: how I respond, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, dragons are powerful, right, I mean it is, no,
Speaker 2: it is a rush when you see them.
Speaker 1: So here's what happened. We'd had this plan trip to
Speaker 1: go to drive to Phoenix. We already had we rented
Speaker 1: a pickup truck to go get these chairs that I
Speaker 1: wanted really bad. And we're in this truck, we're driving
Speaker 1: to Phoenix. We're almost into Phoenix, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I say to Suzanne, I said, would you believe me
Speaker 1: if I told you your sister Sally was talking to
Speaker 1: me right now, and she goes, yeah, I would. And
Speaker 1: I talked to Sally for Suzanne for about forty five
Speaker 1: minutes to an hour, and there are all things I
Speaker 1: didn't know, They're all things that Suzanne would know. And
Speaker 1: it was the first time I ever spoke to somebody
Speaker 1: on the other side. So everything I needed to know,
Speaker 1: everything I needed was inside of my little hatchback, which
Speaker 1: is and that's when it all.
Speaker 2: Started such a great story.
Speaker 1: And that's when I got Livia Pope. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: very much have a connection to dragons. I very much
Speaker 1: believe in what I I think there is there's a
Speaker 1: dimension of space for dragons because I was there. It
Speaker 1: was so it wasn't a dream. It wasn't like some
Speaker 1: made up stuff. It was a real interaction.
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, just like the fairies have their domain, the
Speaker 2: alves have their domain, the dragons have theirs.
Speaker 1: I don't to me, the dragon onod isn't as easy
Speaker 1: to cross over as the oid ones.
Speaker 2: Are because it's not a humanoid based, right, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a different a different, completely different frequency.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the dragons changed my life full on,
Speaker 1: just like how the fairies when you were five. Ye
Speaker 1: was a life changing moment for you. The dragons were
Speaker 1: a life changing moment for me. And so here's what's funny, y'all.
Speaker 1: When I called Brenda to tell her about what happened,
Speaker 1: what did you say to me? I'm like, what the
Speaker 1: fuck are dragons doing get into my ship?
Speaker 2: Like? Why? Why? Why was it a dragon? Why? You
Speaker 2: were just like, why why dragons? I don't I don't
Speaker 2: get it. I don't get it. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: if they if the message had shown up from my cat,
Speaker 2: would you have paid attention?
Speaker 1: Right, I'm a good point.
Speaker 2: You would not have paid attention.
Speaker 1: You needed kitty, kitty kitty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, what of right.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to listen to a dragon?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would have blown that cat off.
Speaker 1: I'm out of a peditant given it some you know, snack,
Speaker 1: but I'm not quite sure I would have been so obedient.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna he did the dragon magic, I did?
Speaker 1: It was amazing. So again, y'all, we share these because
Speaker 1: it is this part of what is so magical and
Speaker 1: mystical about our world, about the universe, about what is possible.
Speaker 1: Because in all these stories that we tell you, we're
Speaker 1: telling you our stories.
Speaker 2: And again we talked about the other side obviously, but
Speaker 2: the other side's here and it's available to us, and
Speaker 2: that's what we want you to remember.
Speaker 1: And if you see a white wispy one, give it
Speaker 1: a smooch for me because she was fabulous and I
Speaker 1: just and it's like I have not forgotten really that that.
Speaker 1: It's like everything I need is inside my little hatchbag.
Speaker 1: And I think my hatchback was white too. It's really weird.
Speaker 2: It's nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my little crappy hatchback cars Man probably white because
Speaker 1: that's my hair's turning.
Speaker 2: Damn it. Thank you Mike Al for doing all your
Speaker 2: nerdy research and for sharing your story. Thank you for
Speaker 2: listening everybody, and remember our school is.
Speaker 1: Hard without the other side in the dragon rail me all.
Speaker 1: If you can get there, go it's magnificent. Okay, we
Speaker 1: love you guys, tell us stories. Kay, bye bye everybody.
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks
Speaker 2: to our producer Joey Patt and our executive producer Maya
Speaker 2: Cole Howard, who guides us well we guide you.
Speaker 1: Hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides, or
Speaker 1: shoot us a note at high Hi at Vibes dot Store.
Speaker 2: We want to know what you think, we want to
Speaker 2: know what you know, and we want to hear your
Speaker 2: stories and remember, our school is.
Speaker 1: Hard without the other side. Insider's Guide to the other
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