WEBVTT - Kyle Bornheimer 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.320 I got to have Fred Willard play my dad, you know, 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:04.120 and he actually looks like my dad in real life, 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.440 so it's it's just sort of like it looks like 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.760 Ron Burgundy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it looks like you're like, Kyle, 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:14.440 your dad looks like too many people. Um you also 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:22.360 weirdly and Thomas, he kind of looks like Steve Martin too. Hi. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.880 I'm Kyle Barnheimer, and when I was five years old, 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.080 I made Pico call me Steve Martin for an entire year. 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.560 Hi everybody, and welcome to a brand new episode of 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.720 Off the Beat. As always, I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.880 and that was Kyle Bornheimer you've just heard from Today. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.680 We're going back to our roots a little bit. Those 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:50.839 of you who have listened to this podcast for a 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:55.480 while know that before we branched off into Off the Beat, 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.200 we were telling the story of a little show called 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.800 The Office US. And I actually met Kyle while filming 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.040 The Office. He was on season four, episode nine, Local 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:12.160 Ad as ad man. But before he was our ad man, 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.600 he was an ad man. Yes, there was a time 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:21.320 in his life when he was the funny commercial guy. 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.200 But now you probably know him from playing Doug on 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:30.399 Avenue five, being Teddy Wells in Brooklyn nine nine, or 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.759 as Sam Briggs in Worst Week. Beyond that, Kyle has 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.600 guest starred in just about every great show from the 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.080 last few decades, so much so that he seems to 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.080 be a part of some writer's room jokes. But look, 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.160 we're gonna get into that. In fact, let's let's get 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.480 into it right now. Let's bring him on to tell 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:59.880 us all about it. Kyle Bornheimer. Everyone, bubble and sweet 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:07.120 I love it. Bubble and squeak on Bubble and squeaker 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:24.000 cookie every month left over from the Nabby people. What's up, Kyle? Hey? 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.360 How are you? I am very very good, even better 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.200 now that I'm seeing you there. Happy New Year. I 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.520 don't know when you stop saying Happy New Year? Uh? 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:39.160 Maybe today? What's today? Today? One? Oh, that's right, I 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.480 would say today. I don't mind a late January. Happy 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.560 New ye Happy New Year, especially if you haven't seen it. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.240 You know, you know it's like, yeah, I think you 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.080 know you have all the whole month to launch into 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.679 your new year. After January one, though, then I think 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:57.600 it's an awful, awful tun groundhogs y Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:03.320 happy groundhog Day. It's very good to see you. I 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.000 have so many things that one I have learned about 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:13.200 you and rediscovered about you, including our brief time together 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.760 on the office. Actually, but I want to start back. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.320 Your story seems fascinating to me. You well, first off, 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.440 you grew up in Indiana. That in and of itself 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.120 is not fascinating. But it's the opposite. Indiana literally means 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:32.600 not fascinating. Yeah, that's the definition of Indiana. No, that's 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:36.400 not true. Well, it's funny because I understand Indiana is 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:38.560 not Kansas, but there was a there was a period 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.680 of time here that I felt like everyone I talked 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.560 to was like, yeah, I'm from Kansas, and people think, oh, 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.960 you've got to be from New York or l A 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.400 or a coast or something. And I was like, yeah, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.240 I'm in Kansas, and I wanted to get into comedy. 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.280 It's like, oh, well, I think, yeah, I mean, anyone 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.080 living in by the way, Indiana a kid. But first 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.200 of all, it is very fascinating. Hey, looking back on it, 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.240 and I just took my kids there for the first time. 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:09.640 They were legit fascinated by it and charmed and love 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.280 hearing stories, especially then growing up in l A and 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.880 hearing my stories about growing up in the seventies and 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:19.520 eighties and nineties and Mishawaka, Indiana is incredibly exotic and 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.040 fascinating to them. By the way, they're probably gonna think 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.200 l A is boring and can't wait to get out 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:25.680 of l A or something. You know. I think wherever 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.520 you grow up, you sometimes will tend to think less 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:30.359 of it for a while, but then you get older 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.520 you look back and I you know, I really obviously 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.240 cherish my upbringing there and was really neat to see 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.640 it through their eyes this past ball we went. So 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.240 it sounds to me you grew up in Indiana as 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.279 a as an old soul. I'm told that you were 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:50.640 a really big Singing in the Rain fan. Oh gosh, 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.000 that's my favorite movie. And this is a that is 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.760 a French poster for Singing in the Rain, right there, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.720 a French poster for Singing in the Rain. My friend 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.040 got for me actually because I probably because I had 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.560 nonstopped talking about that movie. Yeah, yeah, and that's kind 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.159 of beautiful. Yeah, it literally since when you can carry forward, 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:10.920 I mean, do you have anything like that either? People 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.440 you were fans of or movies or music that when 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.560 you were five it's the same as when you're forty five. 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.960 I mean, I think for me it was The Wizard 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.599 of Oz, but that feels like a cliche. I don't 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.160 I don't run for me too. Yeah, but I don't 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:31.000 remember thinking or knowing anyone as a kid who was 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.159 a fan of Singing in the Ring. What was it 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.600 about that? Was it the singing, the dancing, singing and 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.800 the rain? Uh? But it was both the singing and 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.840 the ring. You know, it's funny you say that not 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:47.679 knowing any kids. There's a family lore that I made. 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:51.080 All my six year old friends at my birthday party 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.719 watched Singing in the Ring like we were outside doing 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.800 a bunch of fun stuff, and then I was like, Okay, 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.559 now it's time to go in and watch this thirty 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:00.920 year old movie. It was singing and dancing. And I 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.240 can tell you all about what I know about Gene Kelly, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.440 so I I definitely you know my family, it was 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.120 on all the time. I had pretty good movie Buffy 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.560 and that my Actually my grandparents and parents were necessarily 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:13.520 movie bus but they had very good taste and they 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:18.160 had had robust movie collections all the time on my 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.320 my mom's side, her dad and then my dad like 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.200 loved movies, and like I said, it wasn't like a 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.200 movie buffy thing where he didn't he couldn't like pull 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.560 out any trivia. He wasn't. He just loved movies and 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.400 they happened to have like some pretty good taste in 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.120 terms of mainture. And that one was just one that 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.839 very early on spoke to me. I remember my brothers 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.560 was some like it hot. That was the one that 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.479 he bombed onto as a kid. Wizard of Oz obviously 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:41.479 was Zombi present in our in our whole household. So 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:45.200 we've watched that. That's remained pretty amazing. But yeah, you know, 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.760 I think and then whatever, it just sort of became 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.880 a a staple at our house, and I lived and 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.720 continued loving and whenever I revisited it is legitimately still 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.040 an amazingly made movie like it is for some reason 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.080 of those that era of musicals when they were done, 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.480 you know, all the time, it does stand out as 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.919 a really it's an amazing satire on Hollywood. It's just 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.880 a very tight script. It's a The musical numbers are beautiful, 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.760 they're very athletic dance numbers that Donal O'Connor and Gene 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:16.440 Kelly do. I just showed my kids. I mean, they've 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.360 seen it before, but we just rewatched like the Donald 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.760 O'Connor make them laugh sequence and just they they were 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.480 talking about, oh my gosh, like Jim Carrey. It's like, 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.080 you know, it really is that physical comedy that probably 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.040 I also like the athleticism and the sort of dynamicism 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:33.400 of it as well. Did you now did you sing 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.120 and dance and acted out or was this just oh 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.720 I probably did? You know? It's really funny when I 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.960 moved to l A without any first of all, not 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.600 to be an actor at all. I moved out to 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.080 want to be the right and right right here. But 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:51.520 on my to do list for whatever reason, was take 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:57.440 tap dancing lessons. This was because of my love of 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.960 gene Kelly. Now, I had not had any rama, musical, 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.160 any really any arts education at all at this time 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:05.600 in my life. But for whateverything, that was my list, 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.120 and I did so that. I bought tap shoes, I took, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.240 you know, a week's worth of lessons. I fell off 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.920 on my routine, in my in my in my practice 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:15.480 and it just sort of fell and I had no 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.640 money to be taking task tap dancing lessons the most 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:20.920 impractical thing I could be doing at the time, So 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.080 but I kept the tap shoes. And I remember when 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.680 I first when I was first dating my now wife 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.920 in my tiny little apartment on Dohini. She came over 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:31.800 and I was like getting ready before we were going out, 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:37.160 and she's like, what's um, what's this? And she had 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:42.360 found my tap dancing shoes in my closet, and uh yeah, 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.560 I had to explain to her, Well, you just started 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.360 dating a man that, uh whether to be a tap 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.200 dancer at one point, and I really wish I would 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.760 get to this day. I still thinking, you know, now 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.400 heading into the next phase of my life and maybe 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.400 I can get that tap dancing thing going again. Yeah, okay, 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.960 well we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna talk about your 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.559 move to l A. But I also was told this 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:06.920 that there was a time in your life. Now I 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.160 don't know exactly when this was that you where you 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:14.360 made people call you Steve Martin. Well, yeah, he would 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.200 be the other thing, you know, I said singing in 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.160 the rain that since I was five, I've been a 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.680 fan of and it's never wavered, and and that fandom 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:23.880 has been validated by the fact that he is indeed 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.920 a genius, you know. So I did, and that came 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.320 directly from I loved the King tut bit. So that 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.199 was probably mostly when I was little, from his Sarah 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.600 Live appearances and probably stand up and then this was 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.240 the day. This was the era. I know, did your 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.760 family do this? This was comedy albums where your parents 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:44.520 would buy a comedy album and play it in the 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.800 living room after dinner. And it was Steve Martin and 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.040 and Richard. We probably didn't do Richard prior to every 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.880 year older, but it was that eight, so I'm sure 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.520 we had an album, but I think it was mainly 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.480 from Sarah Live skit, which by the way, we're not 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.720 on like YouTube. The next day, I must have been up, 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:02.520 you know, my parents must have been letting me stay up, 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.160 or maybe there's like a new speechure on it or something, 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.480 and I saw it and I fell in love with him. 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.240 And then once I was a little older and watching 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.080 all his movies and the jerk and everything just sort 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.040 of continued that. But I think that was early I 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.040 think that was late seventies, I was born seventy, probably 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.000 doing that when I was five years old, like eighty, 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.960 and so it must have been from his seren Live 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.600 and like maybe maybe a lot of the Johnny Carson 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:25.480 appearances too, because that would have been earlier in the day, 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.800 like ten right, maybe right, right right. So you you 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.120 go to Purdue and at this at this point, you 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.840 think you're going to do what with your life? Well, 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:41.880 it's journalism. Maybe I was Okay, I was already falling 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.400 in love with movies and had was already. This was 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.560 the nineties. The important part of this is this was 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:52.520 the rise of Tarantino and Jane Camping and and Rodriguez 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.079 and all the film and Kevin Smith and all the 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.400 end of film like indie filmmakers. So my sort of 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.800 love of classic movies. Um, and then friends introduced me 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.000 to the of the seventies movies and all that kind 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:07.240 of cool Godfather and all that stuff in Chinatown and 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.199 tax all that stuff. So I was sort of my 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.839 love movies. I was continuing, and then the nineties hit 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:14.880 and then that was our era of the all those 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.120 young great independent filmmakers. So I was already starting to 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.320 really fall in love with all that and reading you know, 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.120 Filmmaker magazine and finding out what was playing in Sundance 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:24.960 and Alleghip. So when I went to Perdue, I was 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:27.439 I was kind of just doing what you do after college, 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.560 where you go to a you know, you go to college, 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.560 and uh, journalism was on my mind. My dad was 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.160 for the first five years and of his career was 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.840 a broadcast, was a was an anchorman. Actually he actually 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.240 got to exactly round Burgundy. He was very much a 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.040 seventies anchorman with hilarious um. And then my uncle was 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.240 a journalist. I journalism in me and which I loved 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.800 and still loved journalism, so I was thinking of doing that, 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.800 and but I was really a chance visit. I visited 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.240 my sister in l A, fell in love with it, 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.920 and very shortly after you know, getting into Purdue, I 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.360 knew I wanted to move out to lia. So I 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.440 moved out to l A. I went to Indiana University 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.480 just for a few months the following year, but I 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.679 lived with friends and didn't go to any classes except 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.679 maybe my film classes, and then moved out to l 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.440 A ninety six. Yeah. Wait, so I gotta ask you 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.760 this because I think that we're unique I had the 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:23.240 same experience, which was, you know, I had been living 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.319 a bunch of places and not really spending any time 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.080 in l A. And I came out to l A 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.360 for a visit and fell in love with it. What 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.800 was it for you about about l A? About southern 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.800 California or whatever that that that attracted you so much? Remember, 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.280 I fell in love with as well immediately. I think 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.439 it was the big city. I think I was hankering 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.880 for a big city, that it was the film and 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:50.200 television capital. I I definitely, probably to a false romanticized 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.079 that the instry, which is really fascinating what we've kind 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.160 of learned the last five years on how flawed now, 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.800 especially during that time, was an incredibly flawed way. We 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:00.480 were doing a lot of things with this sort of 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.000 tyrannical swimming with sharks kind of producer mentality that was 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.280 going on and all that stuff. But that's said, there's 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.640 a lot of beautiful things and wonderful things about this industry, 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.680 and I think we're probably the best place that's ever 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.840 been in terms of, uh, you know, the good people, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.480 you know, um um working with each other. So but 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.360 I definitely romanticized the industry. I loved the big city. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.080 It was very affordable, as as big cities go. Compared 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.240 to New York and San Francisto and even Chicago, l 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.079 A was the affordable place. Now, this sadly, very sadly 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.800 changed in two thousand eight or so with the housing crisis, 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.000 and now we're in a real housing crisis here, in 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.640 a rental crisis now. But at the time it was affordable. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.040 So I was very doable. I was I was half 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.760 full of ambition and little small town guy in a 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.839 big city and also really scared that I couldn't do it. 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.400 And so l A was a good thing. Is a 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.240 that where I wanted to be, what I wanted to 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.679 do was here. But also it felt more affordable and 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.559 like a big suburb rather than a than big city 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.680 at first to me. So, um, yeah, what did you 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.400 fall in with? What? What was what you know you 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:11.160 were from? I was from Georgia. I mean I traveled around. 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:13.360 I you know, I had spent some time in the 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.040 Midwest and the Northeast, and I mean I had a 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:22.360 friend who was living in the Westwood adjacent area, and 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.960 there was just, I don't know, there was something wholly 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:31.520 unique to me about I remember I remember, I remember, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.240 I remember a coffee bean. I was like, he was 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.840 huge in what is this magical place where you could 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.840 get freezy coffee drinks all day long and sit outside 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.480 this gorgeous weather with the students walking around and all 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.280 these beautiful people. I don't know it was fully romanticized 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.320 to me, but I remember just being like, oh, yeah, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.560 this I could, I could do this, And it's it's 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.360 true what you say. Actually, Like I don't know that 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.200 it was cheap, but you could get so much more 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.800 for the money. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like, 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.360 like you know, in New York you would be in 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:17.440 a tiny, tiny studio apartment and a seventh floor walk 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.480 up and you might spend the same amount of money, 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.160 but you would have you know, a full bedroom and 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.280 a balcony. You could be outside or a little yard 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:33.040 even and have sort of room. Yeah. Yeah, um when 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.800 you moved now, you know you say you were romanticize 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.240 the industry. Were you thinking you were going to get 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.800 into film and television at this at this point? That 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.120 were you just more moving? That was the plan as 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.520 a later director, Yeah, yeah, I mean the plan in 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.800 the very unformed, very green plan, and the and the 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.760 plan that ultimately and unsurprisingly did not work, was that 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:56.560 I was simply kind of work at a video score, 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.960 write a script, and get discovered. I mean that with that, 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.560 I don't know why I didn't just work out. That 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.640 seemed to be what everyone was doing at the time, 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.760 and I guess I just missed that. Bote Um. Now, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.280 I was, you know, committed to working hard and learning. 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.960 And I made a short film, I remember, with on film, 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.000 not on digital. This is before right as digital is 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.320 coming out. So I like spent money on like at 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.720 sixteen million or I guess short ends, which is like 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.880 where you would buy like what people didn't use on 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.400 their movie, their short ends of their film. And I 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.040 made like a nice little movie and I spent everything 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.360 I had and with broke doing it like like a 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.360 short film. I did all the things that I thought 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.000 I should be doing that I was just too young 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.760 and too undeveloped to really navigate that world with any 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.960 real um expertise. You know, I just wasn't really ready. 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.760 I'd come out sort of too soon probably and a 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.160 little bit unpolished. So the plan was very much too 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.520 to get into writing and directing and and so yeah, 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.160 I kind of pivoted acting four or five years in 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.480 when I was like at an acting class that I 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.720 had kind of taken as a quote unquote as a director, 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.800 I think I was like, well, now I should learn 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:00.960 how actors work, since I'll be working with them so much, 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.040 you know now, and this is a vomit chubmic, isn't 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.840 that right? You're very good? Right? Yeah, I mean, look, 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.000 I I try as the best I can. Yes, And 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.280 she is a very big acting director. At the time, 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.440 it felt like everybody was taking classes from Yeah she was. Yeah, 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.520 and I had gone through all the levels kind of that. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.280 She had a couple of lower levels that you take first, 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.160 and I kind of graduated onder hers and I loved it, 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.119 and yeah, I saw kind of a path. It was. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.600 I really needed to be sort of jostled out of 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:40.160 my poor plan, and acting gave me like a vision, 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.320 like a road in front of me that I saw, 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:44.600 which is very simple. I mean, the one thing I 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.919 had going for me was I was very patient, like 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.399 you probably know, as friends sort of start to be 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.119 like maybe this isn't for me, or the industry starts to, 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.119 you know, take its toll on you. Early on. For 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.080 whatever reason, I was like pretty much in it for 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.199 the long haul. A. I had no other I had 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.320 no plan B. But I was also like comfortable, like 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.000 taking my time with it, like being a starting artist 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.520 for a certain degree in my twenties and and wanting 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.320 to actually get good at it, and like, Okay, I 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.280 just need a commercial agent. I remember just being like, 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.520 all I need is a commercial agent. I didn't want 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.879 to get a commercial yet. I was like, have an agent, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.520 and then after that that agent will maybe hopefully get 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.080 me an audition. And I just remember being very clear 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:26.720 like I was. I think that looking back, I was 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.399 very relieved that I finally had like a plan that 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.479 I could at least succeed or fail at whereas before 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.640 that I was kind of flailing. And so I was like, Okay, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.800 well this is a plan. It's really seen other people 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.360 do this plan, and let's see if I can navigate 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.399 this road. And if I don't, then I'll have a 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.320 little better sense that I've tried and not been able to. Yeah, 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.520 I want to ask you about that, because I don't 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.200 think I've talked to anybody about that. I want your opinion. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.359 What do you think it is that that made you 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.360 stick with it? When so many don't write I mean, 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.280 because he is a there there is a huge group 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.359 of people who come out to do exactly the same 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.920 thing you did, or let's just say, they think that 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:13.160 they're going to be actors and then it just doesn't happen. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.960 Do you feel like it's worth a work ethic or 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.680 stick to ito nous? I mean, I know, I'm thinking 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.840 of one in particular, a friend that I came up 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.719 with and it was very good and work just as 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.199 hard as anyone, and had had the talent to the 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.840 very least have a solid career, but also had like 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.080 a really good plan B. If he didn't didn't work 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:38.919 out or just had a skill set, I shouldn't say that. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.000 I don't think he was relying on his plan B frankly, 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:42.840 because he had to kind of go back and really 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.119 like go to school and kind of actually make a 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.119 hard choice to sort of pivot um. But he had 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.919 a skill set, and I think in that instance, I 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:53.639 think he just was looking at the rest of his 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:55.960 twenties and looking at his life and getting started the 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.600 way he wanted and knew like, Okay, yeah, there's a 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.280 chance this could happen. Are also looking at a road 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:03.600 ahead of you, and you're seeing a lot of different examples. 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.840 You're seeing people that have like maybe held on too long. 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.280 You're seeing people that like hit right away, and you're 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:10.960 kind of suspicious of that. You're like, well, I don't 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:12.720 want to I don't want to think that that's gonna 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.160 happen to me. So somewhere where maybe I'm in the middle, 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.439 maybe I'll I'll start having a career and it becomes 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.840 very practical, right and you know, I'm sure you know this. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.840 The dream aspect of it goes away, and the idea 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.280 that you just want a sustainable career is really what 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.639 nineties seven percent of us are. I mean, the the 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.120 the wonderful stars out there who are able to pick 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.840 their own projects and kind of design their own careers 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.920 and make an amazing living at it, or who are 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.840 really comfortable being bohemian, like I don't know, work when 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:44.919 you know, whenever I want to, and I don't need 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:46.359 to make any money at it, and I'll live on 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:48.720 a tree, you know what. There's like that the rest 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:50.359