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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: Very pleased to be joined once again by Professor Norm Finkelstein.

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Speaker 3: He is an author. He is an activist.

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Speaker 1: He is a political scientist, author of many books, including

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Speaker 1: Gaza and Inquest into Martyrdom.

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Speaker 3: Great to see again her.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to start with I know there were

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Speaker 1: a few interviews recent Louis, including one that occurred on

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Speaker 1: our program, that caught your interest, and that can take

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Speaker 1: some inaccuracies or claims that you thought were worth responding to.

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Speaker 1: And so the first one that I wanted to get

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Speaker 1: you to take a look at was a recent monologue

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Speaker 1: from Bill Maher. Let's take a listen to a bit

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Speaker 1: of that.

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Speaker 5: But eventually everybody comes to an accommodation except the Palestinians.

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Speaker 5: Was it unjust that even a single Arab family was

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Speaker 5: forced to move upon the founding of the Jewish state. Yes,

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Speaker 5: but it's also not rare. And no one knows more

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Speaker 5: about being pushed off land than the Jews, including being

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Speaker 5: almost wholly kicked out of every Arab country they once

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Speaker 5: lived in. Yes, TikTok fans ethnic ethnic cleansing happened both ways.

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Speaker 5: In Fedler. On the roof, the family is always moving

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Speaker 5: to stay one step ahead of the Cossacks.

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Speaker 4: But they deal with it.

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Speaker 5: When they're leaving Antevka, they say, Hey, it wasn't so

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Speaker 5: great anyway. Nobody was a bigger colonizer than the Muslim

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Speaker 5: army that swept out of the Arabian desert and took

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Speaker 5: over much of the world in a single century. And

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Speaker 5: they didn't do it by asking. Is a reason Saudi

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Speaker 5: Arabia's flag is a sword. Arafat was offered ninety five

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Speaker 5: percent of the West Bank and said no. The Palestinian

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Speaker 5: people should know your leaders and the useful idiots on

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Speaker 5: college campuses who are their allies, are not doing you

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Speaker 5: any favors by keeping alive the river to the sea myth,

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Speaker 5: I mean where do you think Israel is going spoiler

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Speaker 5: alert nowhere?

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Speaker 1: So the sort of core of the point he is

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Speaker 1: making is Jews got kicked down of a lot of

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Speaker 1: countries too, and it's effectively time for Palestinians to get

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Speaker 1: over it and move on.

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Speaker 6: Just as a general point, I find it rather amusing

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Speaker 6: when I hear Bill Maher anticipating about I think you

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Speaker 6: see the longer clip about the antheum, about the Roman Empire,

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Speaker 6: about Muslim expansion. He knows as much about these topics

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Speaker 6: as Joy Behar. The only difference between him and this

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Speaker 6: Behar is she reads her factoids off of index cards.

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Speaker 6: Well he reads them off of a monitor, and neither

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Speaker 6: of them is, my opinion, particularly funny. And I find

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Speaker 6: it in a very poor taste in the midst of

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Speaker 6: a genocide to making these rather impoverished attempts at humor

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Speaker 6: where half the audience laughing uproariously sounds as if they

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Speaker 6: were paid to laugh. But let's leave all that a site.

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Speaker 6: Let's get to the factual matters. Here are the facts

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Speaker 6: the Palestinians on the zion Is project. I'm not going

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Speaker 6: to go through the whole history, I promise your listeners.

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Speaker 6: Design This project begins roughly at the end of the

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Speaker 6: nineteenth century. Their aim was to establish a Jewish state

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Speaker 6: in Palestine. Palestine was not empty. It became obvious to

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Speaker 6: the indigenous population that the realization of Desionist enterprise to

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Speaker 6: create a Jewish state would at minimum reduce them to

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Speaker 6: second class citizens in their own place of birth, or

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Speaker 6: at worst result in their expulsion. And design this movement

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Speaker 6: coined in a locution they called a transfer. They didn't

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Speaker 6: want to use the vulgar, gross term expulsion, so they

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Speaker 6: called it the transfer. And as Israel's leading historian, by

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Speaker 6: the way, at this point, is extremely right wing. His

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Speaker 6: name is Benny Morris, and you'll see him in all

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Speaker 6: the right wing talk shows like Colman Hughes and others.

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Speaker 6: Benny Marris said, and now I'm quoting the idea of

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Speaker 6: transfer or expulsion. The idea of transfer was in built

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Speaker 6: and inevitable in Zionism. Okay, now it happens. I wrote

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Speaker 6: my doctoral dissertation on Zionism. I know about the subject,

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Speaker 6: but I never beit the labored the terminology because sometimes

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Speaker 6: I think it afu skates the critical facts rather than

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Speaker 6: enlightening them, sort of like nowadays when Palestinian supporters talk

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Speaker 6: about settler colonialism. I don't find this kind of terminology enlightening.

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Speaker 6: I think it obscures more than enlightens. But as a

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Speaker 6: factual matter, as Benny Maherars said, the idea of transfer

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Speaker 6: or expulsion was inbuilt and inevitable in Zionism. Okay, and

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Speaker 6: so the indigenous population of Palestine. The hour later they

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Speaker 6: came to define themselves as Palestinian.

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Speaker 4: But the our Palestinian.

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Speaker 6: Population of Palestine naturally revolted against that prospect. In fact,

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Speaker 6: Bending Morris writes, remember he's now a right wing historian,

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Speaker 6: but Bending Morris writes that the driving force, the motor

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Speaker 6: force of opposition to Zionism, was the prospect that the

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Speaker 6: indigenous population was going to be expelled if this idea

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Speaker 6: were realized. Now skipping far ahead, and not to tilt

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Speaker 6: the scale in my direction, but just to bring us

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Speaker 6: to an end before this one question, he consumes your

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Speaker 6: whole program.

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Speaker 4: Come nineteen forty eight, a war breaks out. I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to talk about who's right and who's wrong in

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Speaker 4: the course of the war. But now, as Ben David Bengreen.

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Speaker 6: The first Prime Minister of the State of Israel, said,

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Speaker 6: he quoted the famous French expression, which he still quoted

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Speaker 6: when in war, do as in war, namely, here is

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Speaker 6: a prospect. Now we have the opportunity to realize Asie

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Speaker 6: in his dream. And the population from the area that

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Speaker 6: became Israel, a ninety percent of the population from the

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Speaker 6: area that became Israel was expelled, exactly what you would

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Speaker 6: expect given what the ideology was, and an opportunity now

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Speaker 6: availed itself, and they became the Palestinian refugees. So now

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Speaker 6: Bill Maher says, well, basically, he says, it's a done deal.

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Speaker 4: Get over it. I'm not going to.

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Speaker 6: Pass a judgment on that, now, you know, Crystal. And

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Speaker 6: if you if you don't mind, I'd rather look at

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Speaker 6: you than I look at myself, because I'm more more

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Speaker 6: concerned about persuading you than persuading myself. I'm already persuaded,

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Speaker 6: and body language is sometimes indicative, So I would like

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Speaker 6: to look at you and where I see you're demurring,

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Speaker 6: I'll stop and we'll continue. So he says, basically, get

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Speaker 6: over it, now, you know, Crystal. Let's say you were

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Speaker 6: fired for a job wrongly. What do you expect your

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Speaker 6: friends to do? Do you expect them to support you,

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Speaker 6: or do you expect them saying Crystal, get over it.

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Speaker 3: I would hope they would support me, exactly.

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Speaker 6: So there is an obligation, a kind of moral obligation

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Speaker 6: among those not directly the victim, to support those to

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Speaker 6: the extent there to rectify or wrong. That's to me

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Speaker 6: a moral responsibility. And then you might come to the conclusion,

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Speaker 6: you know what, this is going nowhere, and I hope

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Speaker 6: this person understands it's going nowhere and move on.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 6: The fact of the matter is, and I have to

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Speaker 6: tell you I watched the Bill Maher segment this morning

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Speaker 6: and several times I have to just, you know, take

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Speaker 6: a breath because he's such an ignorant sack of shit.

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Speaker 6: It just nauseates me when I'm listening to this. He

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Speaker 6: hasn't a clue what the history is. He really doesn't

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Speaker 6: know anything. This is the reason Bill Maher doesn't want

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Speaker 6: kids to go to college. He says, it's a waste

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Speaker 6: of time. Yeah, in college, you learned that before you

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Speaker 6: speak your mind, you should actually.

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Speaker 4: Know a few facts.

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Speaker 6: There's supposed to read books, not just have note cards

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Speaker 6: passed to you. So what are the facts and I'm

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Speaker 6: perfectly willing now to say to Bill Maher to his face,

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Speaker 6: if you disagree with me, have me on your program,

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Speaker 6: Have me on your program, and we'll go through it

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Speaker 6: step by step. Already as early as nineteen seventy six. Now,

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Speaker 6: if I'm not mistaken, you were probably born around that time.

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Speaker 3: A little bit later, but yes.

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Speaker 6: Okay later. So before you were born, and I'd like

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Speaker 6: you to sort of let that sink in. You were

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Speaker 6: an adult woman already, you have children. I'm talking about

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Speaker 6: before you were born. Already in nineteen seventy six, the

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Speaker 6: Palestine Liberation Organization, which at that point was the Representative

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Speaker 6: organization the palest Indian people, was supporting two states in

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Speaker 6: the June nineteen sixty seven border. They were supporting the compromise.

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Speaker 6: They were already giving up before you were born. The

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Speaker 6: Representative Organization of the Palestinians universally recognized the po They already.

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Speaker 4: Were ready to compromise. They gave up. And I hope

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Speaker 4: this will sink into the minds of your listeners.

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Speaker 6: It's impossible that they will sink into the mind of

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Speaker 6: Bill Maher because there isn't a mind. There's a blank

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Speaker 6: space that's filled in with desperate attempts at being clever

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Speaker 6: and funny for his paid listeners, but for everybody else.

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Speaker 6: Before you were born, the Palestinians had already compromised.

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Speaker 4: They had already moved on.

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Speaker 6: They had given up on eighty percent of Palestine, the

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Speaker 6: area that became the state of Israel, and they had

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Speaker 6: resigned themselves, reconciled themselves to the prospect of a state

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Speaker 6: just on the West Bank, including East Jerusalem and the

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Speaker 6: Gaza Strip, but the whole area that became Israel.

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Speaker 4: Before you were born, they had acquiesced in that reality.

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Speaker 4: Now there is a question about the.

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Speaker 6: Fate and future of the Palestinian refugees, those who were expelled,

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Speaker 6: And I will grant because I am an old fashioned

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Speaker 6: believer in truth, and as a radical, I like to

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Speaker 6: quote the better part of the radical tradition that says

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Speaker 6: the truth is revolutionary.

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Speaker 4: Namely, there is no contradiction between the truth and.

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Speaker 6: Having revolutionary or radical aspirations.

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Speaker 4: So I'm not afraid of the truth.

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Speaker 6: It's not like truth is the enemy of revolution or

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Speaker 6: truth is the enemy of a radical trend information.

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Speaker 4: Of our society and our world.

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Speaker 6: So it is true that this refugee question has been

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Speaker 6: a great area. But if you look at all the negotiations,

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Speaker 6: and I studied it very closely, and virtually not virtually,

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Speaker 6: in all the negotiations, it was clear that the Palestinians

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Speaker 6: were willing to, or their representative organizations were willing to

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Speaker 6: make drastic, colossal compromises on the question of the return

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Speaker 6: of the Palestinian refugees. So any honest reckoning of the

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Speaker 6: factual record will show you that the Palestinians had already compromised,

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Speaker 6: had already given up the aspirations of one state from

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Speaker 6: the river to the sea. Now, if there were any doubts,

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Speaker 6: just let me give you a few examples. So in

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Speaker 6: the nineteen eighties, we're now going ahead, Okay, we're going

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Speaker 6: from nineteen seventy six to in the early nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 6: the Palestinians were making it very clear they were ready

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Speaker 6: to compromise on two states in.

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Speaker 4: His Dark Palestine.

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Speaker 6: Their state would only compromise constitute twenty percent. The Israelis

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Speaker 6: began to panic because they were afraid that international public opinion.

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Speaker 4: Would force them to relinquish control of.

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Speaker 6: The West Bank and Gaza, which they were determined to keep.

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Speaker 6: And so in Israeli. An Israeli political scientist. His name

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Speaker 6: is Avner Yanive very mainstream fellow. He since passed. I'm

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Speaker 6: sure I think I'm the only one still alive everyway

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Speaker 6: everybody the He said, what the Israelis feared, and I'd

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Speaker 6: like this expession hopefully to sink into the minds of

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Speaker 6: your listeners as well. What the Israelis feared was the

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Speaker 6: Palestinian Peace Offensive. The Palestinian Peace Offensive. They were terrified

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Speaker 6: that the Palestinians were becoming too moderate and therefore pressure

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Speaker 6: will be exerted by the international community to forest on

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Speaker 6: Israel It's withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza to

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Speaker 6: its pre June nineteen sixty seven borders.

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Speaker 4: So what did Israel do?

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Speaker 6: Israel fabricated in June nineteen eighty two and excuse to

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Speaker 6: invade Lebanon. Why did the one to invade Lebanon because

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Speaker 6: that's where the PLO was located at the time. They

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Speaker 6: representative Palestinian organization. They wanted to distrude the PLO, not

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Speaker 6: because it was radical, not because it wanted to create

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Speaker 6: a state from the river to the sea. They wanted

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Speaker 6: to destroy the PLO because it was too moderate. A

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Speaker 6: Palestinian peace offensive, okay, And in the course of that

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Speaker 6: attempt to liquidate the excessively moderate PLO, Israel killed between

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Speaker 6: fifteen and twenty thousand Palestinian and Lebanese overwhelmingly civilians. As

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Speaker 6: a matter of fact, this last Israeli genocide in Gaza,

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Speaker 6: it's for the first time exceeded the amount of death

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Speaker 6: and destruction since the Lebanon War in nineteen eighty two.

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Speaker 6: People already have completely forgotten.

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Speaker 4: And what was the care the war?

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Speaker 6: Why is real kill fifteen to twenty thousand Palestinian Lebanese

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Speaker 6: overwhelmingly civilians, Because and Bill Maher, I'll be happy to

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Speaker 6: come on your program, take out Avner Yannig's book and

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Speaker 6: shove it in front of your face. Now, I know

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Speaker 6: that will be torture. I understand that will be torture.

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Speaker 6: Not the phrase, but having to look at the book.

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Speaker 6: Having to look at the book. Now, I'm maybe you

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Speaker 6: think you're protected under the Eighth Amendment against Cruel and

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Speaker 6: Unusual punishment.

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Speaker 4: Okay, we'll go through that in court.

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Speaker 6: But yes, the Palestinian peace offensive now come nineteen eighty seven,

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Speaker 6: the Palestinians absolutely despairing of ever ending this occupation of

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Speaker 6: their lens. They went into a civil revolt. It was

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Speaker 6: called the Intafadom. Okay, here's a side note for you

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Speaker 6: and Crystal. I like you. I know you're a good listener,

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Speaker 6: and I know you you sucking information and I appreciate that.

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Speaker 6: I saw you with Robert Candy. It was a good show.

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Speaker 6: There's no question about that. You came up with arguments

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Speaker 6: I wouldn't have come up at the spur of the moment.

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Speaker 4: It was good. It's very good.

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Speaker 6: You and Brianna represent the new Brianna joy Ray represent

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Speaker 6: a new generation, a generation that's not afraid of the

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Speaker 6: label anti Semite. Even though RFK kept trying to use

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Speaker 6: that particular weapon in his arsenal, you didn't recoil.

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Speaker 4: You persisted. It's a new generation. I mean my generation.

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Speaker 6: You were terrified of doing what you did, terrified because

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Speaker 6: of the charge of anti Semitism and then the practical repercussions.

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Speaker 3: You were another terrified norm I wasn't.

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Speaker 6: Terrified, but you know, I don't have physical courage, but

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Speaker 6: I have moral Richard. I will never say something I

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Speaker 6: don't believe it's not possible. I got that from my parents,

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Speaker 6: and I will take that to my grave. In any event,

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Speaker 6: So in nineteen eighty seventh, December seventh, nineteen eighty seven,

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Speaker 6: nom Chomsky's birthday or December eighth, some people say December

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Speaker 6: eighth my birthdays. So in any event, the first into

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Speaker 6: Father the civil revolt.

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Speaker 4: Literally, it's the our book word for when the dog.

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Speaker 6: Shakes off its fleece at the quiesce in Palestinian people

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Speaker 6: for so long and now shaking off their flees and

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Speaker 6: going into civil vow.

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Speaker 4: I know I'm digressing the lot, but it's actually relevant

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Speaker 4: when you hear.

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Speaker 6: You know, the claim was made against the College presidents

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Speaker 6: during the hearings in Congress that the phrase into fad

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Speaker 6: into fada means genocide, and they say, into father, into fada,

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Speaker 6: the only solution is revolution, okay, And in fact it

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Speaker 6: was a civil revolte.

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Speaker 4: I lived there at the time.

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Speaker 6: I was there every summer from nineteen eighty eight to

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Speaker 6: nineteen ninety five, every single summer. Everybody knew I was Jewish.

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Speaker 6: Everybody knew I was Jewish, and the only ones I fear.

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Speaker 6: I'm not trying to make jokes. I mean I have

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Speaker 6: a sense of humor. But as Ecclesiastes says, there's a

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Speaker 6: time and place for everything. Now is not the time

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Speaker 6: for humor. The only one I was afraid of was

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Speaker 6: the Israeli army. It was very scary, you know. They

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Speaker 6: were killing with abandon during that civil revolt.

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Speaker 4: There were times and I was in my apartment.

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Speaker 6: At night because I lived with Palestinian families in Bagshores,

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Speaker 6: is right outside Bethlehem, and for our refugee camp. Right,

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Speaker 6: it's for our refugee camp, and It'sraeli army invaded at

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Speaker 6: light at night, came.

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Speaker 4: Into my apartment.

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Speaker 6: I was completely terrified, and there were roades you don't

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Speaker 6: want to travel down because the settlers were throwing these stones.

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Speaker 4: But no, I wasn't afraid for s Channa side.

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Speaker 6: The people are so wonderful, so forthcoming, so generous, even

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Speaker 6: Hamas numbers. No, I have to admit there was some

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Speaker 6: concern with how much at the time when I find

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Speaker 6: out that was Jewish in any event, come November nineteen

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Speaker 6: eighty eight, Yes, Sir Arafat, I.

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Speaker 4: Mean I have to laugh, how stupid Bill Maher is.

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Speaker 6: Really he's joy Behar, He's joy Behar without the drag.

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Speaker 6: November nineteen eighty eight, Arafat formerly, oh, I should say,

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Speaker 6: because I use these terms like everybody knows the head

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Speaker 6: of the PLO at the time, Yes Araba. He formally

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Speaker 6: declares the Palestinian state, calls for Palestinian state on the

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Speaker 6: June nineteen sixty seven border, a twesdtate solution. That's just

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Speaker 6: a commonplace piece of knowledge. Anybody who knows anything about

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Speaker 6: the subject knows. November nineteen eighty eight, he declares for

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Speaker 6: two states, and he felt that I don't want to

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Speaker 6: get into all the dynamics, but people are willing to

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Speaker 6: compromise from a position of strength, not from a position

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Speaker 6: of weakness. That's just the nature of politics. Because from

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Speaker 6: a position of weakness, do you feel like, well, if

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Speaker 6: I'm not going to get anything, why not ask for

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Speaker 6: the whole thing? Because it makes no difference if I

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Speaker 6: can't hope to get half a loaf. If I can't

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Speaker 6: hope for half a loaf, then might not ask for

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Speaker 6: the whole oath? Right In November nineteen eighty eight, it

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Speaker 6: was during the First Into Father and it didn't make

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Speaker 6: a nap. It did become a global issue the First

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Speaker 6: Into Father. It did seriously dent Israel's public relations image.

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Speaker 4: Because I'll tell you I was teaching at that time, and.

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Speaker 6: I remember one student who was neither pro Palestinian nor

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Speaker 6: pro Israeli whatever.

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Speaker 4: Those terms meaning. They're just hope me stupid.

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Speaker 6: He said one day in class, he said like this,

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Speaker 6: the Palestinian Civil Revolt was famous. What was called for

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Speaker 6: throwing stones, you know, throwing And he said like this

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Speaker 6: in class, Stone, he held up his handing a stone Uzi.

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Speaker 6: That was the known Israeli weapon. He's sort of the

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Speaker 6: brand of Israel, the Uzzi stone Uzi. That's not fair,

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Speaker 6: that's what he said, Stone, I remember you those thirty

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Speaker 6: years ago, more than thirty years ago, Stone, And that

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Speaker 6: was the image that was being communicated transmitted internationally. So

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Speaker 6: Israel was facing a major pr problem and our fact

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Speaker 6: from a position of strength, because he thought he could

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Speaker 6: win something. Now that the civil that the civil revolt

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Speaker 6: had shifted international public the opinion, he thought he could

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Speaker 6: win something, and he announced for formally, publicly, unambiguously, two

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Speaker 6: states on the June nineteen sixty seventh border.

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Speaker 4: Now come.

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Speaker 6: Nineteen ninety three, the civil revolt was effectively repressed by

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Speaker 6: the Israelis. They were very brutal in their repression of it,

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Speaker 6: and Arafat entered from a position.

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Speaker 4: Of weakness, not strength, what came to be.

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Speaker 6: Called the Oslo a Cord, and basically what the Oslo

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Speaker 6: Court was. It said, we recognize Israel, meaning Yasir Arafat,

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Speaker 6: we recognize the.

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Speaker 4: State of Israel. And it's June nineteen sixty seven border.

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Speaker 6: All of that forgotten by Bill Maher, who's so clever,

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Speaker 6: he's so smart, with his factoid supplied to him by

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Speaker 6: the Israeli councilors. The Oslo Court has vanished, and he says,

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Speaker 6: and what the Palestinians get in return will Actually they've

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Speaker 6: got nothing in return because he was negotiating from a

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Speaker 6: position of weakness at that point, ara Eva. What he

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Speaker 6: got was a promise that we'll figure out what to

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Speaker 6: do sometime in the future. It was supposed to be

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Speaker 6: five years what was called the interim period, and the

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Speaker 6: five years past and got nothing. I have already gone

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Speaker 6: through in a previous show what happened in two thousand

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Speaker 6: where Hillary Clinton's imagine she got carried away. So I'm

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Speaker 6: not going to not that she's ever been very well. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: a certain point in her life she's actually decent, but

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Speaker 6: her memory is now very selective to the extended that

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Speaker 6: ever makes any connection with reality. But the bottom line

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Speaker 6: from the period afterwards. Now we have a very simple

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Speaker 6: way of testing who is and who isn't or which

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Speaker 6: side is on which side isn't willing to compromise on

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Speaker 6: this question. I would say we have an unequivocal record,

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Speaker 6: and the record is this, And I would help your

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Speaker 6: viewers who have an interest in the subject, would simply

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Speaker 6: go and check out what them have to say every

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Speaker 6: year for about two decades, and about two decades, maybe

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Speaker 6: a little more every year, let's just check that.

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Speaker 4: You'll allow me.

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Speaker 7: I I have it.

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Speaker 6: Okay, No, Actually it's from nineteen ninety seven. So if

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Speaker 6: I can ask you in my book Gaza An Inquest

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Speaker 6: into its Marden, turn to page.

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Speaker 4: Twenty eight.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay.

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Speaker 4: Now the United.

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Speaker 6: Nations General Assembly, based on international law.

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Speaker 4: Can I look at you again?

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Speaker 6: I find it troubling looking at myself because it becomes

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Speaker 6: a distraction.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 6: Every year the United Nations General Assembly, it's contrived a

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Speaker 6: resolution terms for resolving the conflict. As the title of

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Speaker 6: the resolution, it says peaceful resolution of the Question of Palestine,

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Speaker 6: and its resolution is based on international law. The international

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Speaker 6: law recognizes the state of Israel. That's not a quarrel

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Speaker 6: an international law. It's a member of state of the

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Speaker 6: United Nations. As a member of state of the United Nations,

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Speaker 6: it has the same rights and do thees rights and

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Speaker 6: obligations as any other state. So the General Assembly contrives

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Speaker 6: a resolution based on all the elements of international law.

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Speaker 6: I would stress that the International Court of Justice itself

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Speaker 6: in two thousand and four, July two thousand and four,

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Speaker 6: it made a determination on all the critical questions bearing

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Speaker 6: on the question of Palestine. So this resolution is a

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Speaker 6: synthesis of the opinion of the General Assembly on the

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Speaker 6: one hand and the International Court.

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Speaker 4: Of Justice on the other hand.

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Speaker 6: Okay, the supreme political body in the world and the

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Speaker 6: supreme legal body in the world. All right, supreme and

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Speaker 6: most representatives. So if you look at the voting record,

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Speaker 6: I know, Bill Marvis is going to be very painful.

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Speaker 6: I recognize it's a printed document and having to go

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Speaker 6: through a printed document may constitutes torment.

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Speaker 4: And torture for you. But if you go through the

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Speaker 4: printed document, I have here the lineup of how did

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Speaker 4: the world vote on.

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Speaker 6: This compromised resolution based on international law? Because Bill Maher says,

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Speaker 6: the Palestinians don't want to compromise. The Parestonians are so

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Speaker 6: stubborn in trying to return to the past, and why

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Speaker 6: can't they just get over it? Okay, they want from

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Speaker 6: the river to the sea. They want to return to

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Speaker 6: the status quo Anti nineteen forty seven. Well, this resolution

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00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 6: calls for two states on the June nineteen sixty seven

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Speaker 6: border in accordance with international law and all the other

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Speaker 6: aspects of international law. Time doesn't allow me to go

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Speaker 6: through each one, though, if you ask me, I'm happy

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Speaker 6: to go through it. So let's look at the voting

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Speaker 6: record nineteen ninety seven. So the record is the number

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Speaker 6: of states who vote for it, those who upstained, and

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Speaker 6: those who oppose or she said, excuse me, the number

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Speaker 6: of states who vote for it, the number who are

434
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 6: posed it, and the number of abstensions. Okay, what was

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00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety seven?

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00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: We had one hundred and fifty five yes, two no,

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Speaker 1: and three abstained.

438
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: Right. Who are the two no?

439
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: That would be Israel in the United States of America.

440
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 6: Okay, So who is it that's the obstacle to peace?

441
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 6: Is it the world or is it the United States

442
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 6: and Israel. Let's look at two thousand and one, or

443
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 6: you know what you do it you choose arbitraity because

444
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 6: I have every year, choose a day, choose a year.

445
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean every year.

446
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: It's basically, you know, everybody in the world against Israel,

447
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: the US and a few of our close allies.

448
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: So for example, and we're.

449
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 4: Not even their allies.

450
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: Yes, the Islands two thousand and six, it's one hundred

451
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: and fifty seven yes, is seven Nos ten abstained the

452
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: nose were Israel, the US, Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru,

453
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: and Palau.

454
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 4: Two thousand and eight. What's the vote?

455
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: One sixty four yes, seven to no three abstained The

456
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: knows are Israel, US, Australia, the same group, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Apollo.

457
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

458
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 6: But a coin to Bill, a coint to Bill bar

459
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 6: it's those stubborn Palestinians for are the obstacle to resolve

460
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 6: in the conflict.

461
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you because this has been a persistent,

462
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: I think mythology in American politics, American media with you know,

463
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: and a lot of Americans have bought into this mythology

464
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: that the Israelis are deeply interested in peace. They want

465
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: a peaceful settlement. This goes back to the conversation we

466
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: had where Hillary Clinton says, you know, it was all

467
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: there on the table for Yaser Arafat and he walks away.

468
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: And this is repeated routinely by any number of the

469
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: political media class. There are some interesting comments recently from

470
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: BB Nannyahu which should surprise no one, but still would

471
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: land as shocking, I think to a lot of the

472
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: American public. If we could put this up on this

473
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: green guys, this is the fourth tear sheet that we have.

474
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: I'm proud of blocked to Palestine state looking at Gaza.

475
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: Everyone sees what would have happened. And what I was

476
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: curious about with you, norm is, first of all, you know,

477
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: were you surprised that he made those comments so nakedly?

478
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: And second of all, do you think that some of

479
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: this mythology surrounding who the quote unquote partner for peace

480
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: is and who has been the primary obstacle to peace

481
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: may break down with the American public.

482
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 4: I can't say I'm surprised.

483
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 6: Look, Benjamin Natanielle is the longest sitting prime minister in

484
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 6: Israeli history, he's as representative of Israeli opinion as anybody

485
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 6: ever has been in Israeli history. If he keeps winning,

486
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 6: it's because even despite all the scandals, it is because

487
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 6: people when they see Benjamin Nataniello in the Israelians, when

488
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 6: they see Benjamin Thatano, they see themselves. He's a representative

489
00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 6: of Israeli public opinion, an Israeli public opinion. It's true,

490
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 6: it's shifted. Uh, there's no longer a veneer in Israeli

491
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 6: society of being civilized.

492
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 4: It's shifted to the far right.

493
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: Uh.

494
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 4: You could say in.

495
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 6: Israel nowadays there's a right, there's a far right, and

496
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 6: there's an ultra right.

497
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 4: There's no center. No.

498
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 6: You take the other day, I was debating to the

499
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 6: extent that was debated, uh Alan Dershowitz and the peer

500
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 6: Pierce Morgan program, and he says that natan Yahoo, he's

501
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 6: not going to be an office because Pierce Morgan made

502
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 6: the same point as you just made. Is against a

503
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 6: Fata land. He's a Fata meaning the main secular Palestinian faction.

504
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 6: He's against the Hamas land. He's against anything. And Dershwitz,

505
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 6: who likes to pretend he supports a Tuesday settlement.

506
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 4: He said, well, he's not going to be prime minister.

507
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 6: It's probably going to be a national coalition after Netanyahu,

508
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 6: and he had guns, the solo Guns is going to

509
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 6: be the new head of state. Yeah, who is guns?

510
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 4: Guns?

511
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 6: Was the chief of staff during Operation Protective Edge in

512
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 6: twenty fourteen where Israel killed about twenty two hundred people

513
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 6: in Gaza, destroyed eighteen thousand homes.

514
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 4: And when he ran for office, when he ran against

515
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 4: Natan Yahu, do you know what then how he ran?

516
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 6: He ran on a video showing the destruction of Gazam Wow,

517
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 6: Judeo was a video and boasting that was his achievement,

518
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 6: that he had level of gozip And this was this

519
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 6: was the person who Professor Dershowitz was talenting as being

520
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 6: more humane and reasonable than Benjamin Netanyahu.

521
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 4: That's in the Israeli position.

522
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 6: Now let's be clear, and here you have to have

523
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 6: I don't like the words so much very much, but okay,

524
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 6: I'll use it. You have to be attentive to nuances

525
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 6: and nuances and subtleties. It is true that when Israel

526
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 6: was under a what's called a labor government or a

527
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 6: roughly labor government. Quote unquote left wing.

528
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 4: There are more forthcoming than the current leadership.

529
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 6: As I said, is the shift the spectrum has shifted

530
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 6: Israel as an ultra right society. It's actually, to my knowledge,

531
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 6: I could be wrong. I always admit to the possibility

532
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 6: of error. It's very unique in the world because in

533
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 6: other countries you have ultra right. Let's say take Brazil,

534
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 6: you have characters like both scenario okay, an ultra right figure,

535
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 6: but the societies are generally divided between an ultra right

536
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 6: and a left. So for a teaching both scenario supporter,

537
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 6: you have a Ulah supporter. There is a real solid opposition.

538
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 6: There's no opposition in Israel. There's a right, there's a

539
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 6: far right, and there's an ultra right. There's no left.

540
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 6: Nobody talks about a left candidate coming into into power

541
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 6: in Israel. Right, So it is true that labor was

542
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 6: under the so called left. In Israel, there were more forthcoming.

543
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 4: I won't deny that. My predom and life never quarrel effects.

544
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 4: I won't deny that.

545
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 6: But we have to be clear that no government in Israel,

546
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 6: no government in Israel, has ever accepted the international consensus,

547
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 6: the legal consensus for resolving the conflict.

548
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 4: So when you were reading off that list, bear.

549
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 6: In mind that was during the period, because we're going

550
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 6: back to nineteen ninety seven's.

551
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 4: From a period where the so called peace nick Yitshak Rabin. Okay,

552
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 4: he was assassinated in nineteen ninety.

553
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 6: Five, but his successors they were in power, right, and

554
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 6: they always whether it.

555
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 4: Was labor, the peacenicks, or could the warhooks across the spectrum,

556
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 4: they all oppose the legal consensus. Mister mar.

557
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 6: I'm not talking about the PLO program. I'm talking about

558
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 6: the International Court of Justice. Fifteen judges, fifteen justices. No,

559
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 6: the International Court Justice, they're called judges. I'm the fifteen judges.

560
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 6: Even the American judge, his name is Bergen. At the

561
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 6: those name was Burgendale. Even he said there can be

562
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 6: no question under international law that Israeli settlements in the

563
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 6: West Bank are illegal under international law. All fifteen Now,

564
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 6: no Israeli government, none has ever entertained the possibility of

565
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 6: eliminating the settlements that were illegally planted in Israel.

566
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 4: Not the labor, not the la could not the left,

567
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 4: not the right. Now here's the kicker. Now brace yourself

568
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 4: for this.

569
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 6: This is the Palestinians who won't compromise, Who are the

570
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 6: obstacle to resolving the conflict? You sick sack of shit,

571
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 6: mister mamaer, whatever your name is, you six sack of shit.

572
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 6: If you look at the negotiations, the Palestines offered to

573
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 6: let sixty percent of the settlements remain in place. Sixty

574
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 6: percent of the settlements remain in place. They were presenting maps.

575
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 6: We have the maps, and the maps show that according

576
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 6: to where you draw the border, sixty percent of the

577
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 6: illegal Israeli settlements would remain in place. The Palestinians on

578
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 6: the settlements compromise, even though under international law they were illegal,

579
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 6: including the judgment of Bergen Judge Bergen Voul and the

580
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 6: ICJ and the International Court of Justice, they were willing

581
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 6: to compromise.

582
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 4: The question of the.

583
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 6: Refugees right now, according to the official count, there are

584
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 6: about six million refugees. The Palestinians who are willing to

585
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 6: accept a figure in the hundreds of thousands returning back

586
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 6: maybe something like I have to admit, you know, there's

587
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 6: gray area here, but you could say, roughly, if you

588
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 6: look at the figures that were thrown around, maybe half

589
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 6: a million to return okay.

590
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: On the question of borders.

591
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 6: Palestinians were willing to rewrite the border so long as

592
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:41,959
Speaker 6: they got in exchange equal sized lat what they're called landslaps,

593
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 6: had to be of equal size, had to be of

594
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 6: equal quality. So we're not giving up the best arable

595
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 6: land in the West Bank. So you're going to give

596
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 6: us some desert in the south of Hebron. So it

597
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 6: had to be roughly equal size and.

598
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 4: Quality. But we'll rewrite the border.

599
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 6: We're willing to rewrite the border, make minor border adjustments

600
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 6: to account for facts on the ground since nineteen sixty seven,

601
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 6: and they even made some compromises on Jerusalem, even though

602
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 6: under international law, Jerusalem East Jerusalem is occupied Palestinian territory

603
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 6: because it was acquired during the June nineteen sixty seven war,

604
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 6: and therefore, as occupied.

605
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 4: Territory it belongs to the Palestinians. Israel has no title.

606
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 6: To territory it acquired in the course of the war.

607
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 6: That's international law. So across the board, if you go

608
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 6: through it, they were willing to make compromises on the

609
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 6: basis of the UN resolution. They were willing to accept less.

610
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 6: They were willing to accept less than the un resolution. Now,

611
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 6: if there's any question, if there's any question, it's very simple.

612
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 6: Why is the whole world on one side, the whole

613
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 6: world and the United States, Israel, and the South Pacific atolls.

614
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 4: On the other side? Why is that? Are they all

615
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 4: anti submitted? Now?

616
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 6: The other day I saw an interview with Professor Dershowitz

617
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 6: and fellow from Al Jazeera. Very intelligent young men. He

618
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 6: didn't know all the facts, but he knew enough.

619
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 4: Okay.

620
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 6: So he starts quoting something from UNICEF. Professor Dershowett says,

621
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 6: they're pro hamas. He says, quotes something from UNESCO. There

622
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 6: pro hamas. Then he quotes something from Human Rights Watch.

623
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 6: Their pro hamas. Then he quotes Greta Thurnberg from the

624
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 6: Climate Change Mum, she's pro hamas. At this point. At

625
00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 6: this point, the interlocular, the U Katari fellow. He said, Professor,

626
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 6: is there anyone in the world who's not pro hamas

627
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 6: except for Israel? And you?

628
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 4: That's Bill mah No.

629
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 6: You may think it's funny, but that's Bill Maher. You see,

630
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 6: according to Bill Maher, all the countries in the world

631
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 6: except for the United States and Israel, all the countries

632
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 6: in the world and all the justices in the International

633
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 6: Court of Justice. They must all be well, not pro Hamas,

634
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 6: but pro Palestinian. There wasn't even Ahamas at this time,

635
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 6: really right, not no politically significant h huh. They must

636
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 6: all be pro Palestinian the whole world or anti submitted.

637
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 6: The whole world must be anti submitted. On the International

638
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 6: Court of Justice at the time, there was a woman,

639
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 6: the British judge named Rosalind Higgins.

640
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 4: She went with the majority.

641
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 6: On the ICJ, there was Bergenval who calls himself a

642
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 6: Holocaust survivor. He's just passed, obviously Jewish. He went overwhelmingly

643
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 6: with the majority. There are a couple of points not

644
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 6: worth going into where he had differences. But everybody in

645
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 6: the world must be a spoiler. They must all be

646
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 6: like the Palestinians. They must be guard to Bill mahk

647
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 6: that the Palestinians are the obstacles.

648
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 4: But the Palestinians were willing to compromise even.

649
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 6: More, even more than what the United Nations General Assembly and.

650
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 4: The ICJ said legally they were entitled to.

651
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 1: Well, normal, I want to get to Anail also took

652
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: an interest in the interview that we had with presidential

653
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: candidate RFK Junior, where he made a variety of claims.

654
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: I pulled two different clips that I wanted to get

655
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: you to respond to because they both elements that you know,

656
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: I haven't just heard from him. These are things that

657
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: I hear repeated rather often. The first one has to

658
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: deal with his assertion that, you know, the Palestinians I'm

659
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: paraphrasing here, will let him say it himself, but essentially,

660
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: the Palestinians are so bad that even the neighboring Arab

661
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: states like Egypt didn't want them.

662
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to that piece.

663
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: So President Biden's administration, they have said that they have

664
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: no red lines for the State of Israel and their

665
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: conduct in this war. Do you have any red lines

666
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: for Israel?

667
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 8: Well, you know the red lines are they?

668
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 4: You know, you don't deliver.

669
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 8: You do everything you can, which I think Israel is

670
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 8: doing right to avoid civilian casually. You know, there's collateral

671
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 8: damage in every war, and they're fighting an implacable anime.

672
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 8: I mean, I don't think there's any country in the

673
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 8: world that would go as far as Israel has gone

674
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 8: to not invade guys. I mean, Israel was being bombed

675
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 8: by Amas took over God and Israel.

676
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 4: Walked out of God. There's no occupation of God.

677
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 8: Well, there's a black hate because because God, because Hamas

678
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 8: declared war on Israel and said suicide bombers off. So

679
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 8: they put up a fence so that it's there. You know,

680
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 8: that's like a that's like the guy who kills his father,

681
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 8: his parents and then throws himself on the mercy of

682
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 8: the court because he is an orphan.

683
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 4: You know, for them to say that.

684
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 8: They're black hated, they're black. Yeah, they're black head. And

685
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 8: it's not just Israel, it's block hating is Egypt. Everybody

686
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 8: has a problem with a moss.

687
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 6: You know.

688
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 8: In fact, the after the seventy three war, after the

689
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 8: sixty seven war, Israel tried to give a moss back

690
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 8: the Egypt and Egypt didn't want to take it because

691
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 8: I mean God, sorry, Gods it back to Egypt. Egypt

692
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 8: didn't want to take it because of the you know,

693
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 8: the high level of religious militant.

694
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: Is So I wonder what your response is to that

695
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: last piece, in particular where he asserts, you know, the

696
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: neighboring countries don't want to deal with these people either.

697
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: And so it's not just on Israel, and this is

698
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: illustrative of how magnanimous Israel has been towards the Palestinians.

699
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 6: Okay, there are three questions there, and I'm going to

700
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 6: ask you to remember them because my memory is shot.

701
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll write them down from a.

702
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 4: Combination of old age and mental exhaustion.

703
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 6: Since Octoby seven, I'm thinking of going to small claim

704
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 6: spurt ensuing Hamas for senior citizen abuse because last two

705
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 6: months have been just the horror in my life. So

706
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 6: there are three questions that Robert Kennedy raised. Number one

707
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 6: about Israel doing all you can to avoid civilian casualties.

708
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 4: Number two, the claim about Israel.

709
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 6: Having withdrawn from Gaza in two thousand and five, and

710
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 6: number three the question of Egypt. So, because I respect

711
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 6: you and I noticed that your last interview with me,

712
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 6: or one of the last interviews with me, got a

713
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 6: lot of viewers. And the point is to educate and

714
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 6: try to persuade, I'm going to say you take I'll

715
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 6: do this. I'll stay here till the end of time,

716
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 6: which in my case may not be too long from

717
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 6: now to clarify these issues. So let's start with the

718
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 6: Israel's doing everything it can, okay to avoids laying passionties

719
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 6: first of all, and there have been many comparative studies

720
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 6: with Israel the number of deaths in gazas compared to

721
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 6: every other conflict in the past twenty five years in

722
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 6: this century, and Israel's just in the category all its own.

723
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 6: Let's just take one example, which would be familiar to

724
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 6: all of your listeners. You know, I'm going to go

725
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 6: off in diressions, but I have to because everything is

726
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 6: really important. I was very angry at Bernie Sanders after

727
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 6: what happened in October seventh and how.

728
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 4: He acquitted himself. I was furious. I was furious with

729
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 4: him on a political level.

730
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 6: Because I invested a lot in his candidacy, as did

731
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 6: a large number of young people. And I was also

732
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 6: disgusted with him. And I'm not trying to play the

733
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 6: Jewish card, but as a Jew that he had said.

734
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 6: He didn't boast about it, he wasn't wearing down on

735
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 6: his shoulder, but he said that.

736
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 4: You know, a large far.

737
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 6: Part of his family perished in Poland during the Nazi Holocaust.

738
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 6: Obviously was reson it was a sensitive court for him.

739
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 6: And then the state he was making. You know, they

740
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 6: were just ghastly, ghastly. I was walking around the streets

741
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 6: cursing him.

742
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 4: I was so angry.

743
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 6: But you know, if you'll allow me, I know, these

744
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 6: seemed like digressions, but everything comes together in my mind,

745
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 6: and they'll try to bring it together in your mind.

746
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 4: A long time ago, in our.

747
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 6: Own country, there were the abolitionists, the white abolitionists who

748
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 6: fought for the rights of African American people tenn slavery

749
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 6: and then after to fight for their equal rights in

750
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 6: the German reconstruction. There was one fellow named William Garrison.

751
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 6: He was a very famous abolitionist, and after the Civil

752
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 6: War he opposed giving the rights a vote to black people.

753
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 6: He said they weren't ready, and he was criticized heavily

754
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 6: for it. Eventually he changed his mind and he recognized

755
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 6: he was wrong. And Frederick Douglas writing about Frederick Douglas

756
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 6: writing about Garrison and the fact that he opposed the

757
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 6: right to vote and then reversed himself.

758
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 4: He had a very nice line. Douglas was a brilliant

759
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 4: stylist writer.

760
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 6: He said, a man's head will not long remain wrong

761
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 6: when his heart is right. A man's head will not

762
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 6: long remain will not long remain wrong when his heart

763
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 6: is right.

764
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 4: And that was Bernie.

765
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 6: I said to my friends, I think he's going to backtrack.

766
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 6: He's going to backtrack. And then one night I was

767
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 6: exercising and watching I said, oh, Bernie, unseaspam, let's see

768
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 6: what a guy has to say. No, And I expected

769
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 6: the usual, and then suddenly he said, there have been more.

770
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 4: Civilians killed in Gaza in two months.

771
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 6: Then have been killed in Ukraine in two years, Ukraine

772
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 6: in two years. The current figure is ten thousand civilians

773
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 6: killed in Gaza. It's twenty thousand and two months, two years,

774
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 6: two months.

775
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, and that friends from Douglas came to mind.

776
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 7: A man's if a man's a man's mind cannot be

777
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 7: long wrong long if his heart is right.

778
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 6: Robert Kennedy, on the other side, is a complete sleeves bag,

779
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 6: a sack of shit like Bill Mahr to be saying

780
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 6: that Israel is doing everything possible. When you look just

781
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 6: at the number of child deaths in Israel in Gaza,

782
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 6: it's one hundred and thirty six per day. And the

783
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 6: next conflict area in the world, the next goes from

784
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 6: five per day downwards one hundred and thirty six. If

785
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 6: you look at the barograph, the next conflict is five

786
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 6: per day going downwards. And this sack of shit is

787
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:38,919
Speaker 6: revolting opportunists. This genocide apologist, Robert F. Kennedy says they're

788
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 6: doing everything possible. Fifty percent, fifty percent of all of

789
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 6: Gaza's civilian infrastructure, houses, factories, fifty percent has been leveled.

790
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 6: Imagine if you were walking down the street and you're

791
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 6: going for miles, let's call it twenty seven miles, which

792
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 6: is Gaza's length, and you discover as you're walking down

793
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 6: the street, everything to the left of you is flattened.

794
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 6: Every single building to the left of you for twenty

795
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 6: seven miles is.

796
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,959
Speaker 4: Now a parking lot.

797
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 6: You would call that doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties. Now,

798
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 6: Human Rights Watch is not, by any stretch of the imagination,

799
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 6: a radical organization. Okay, it's very mainstream. It issued in

800
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 6: the past two weeks a couple of reports. One report

801
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 6: is entitled Gaza unlawful Israeli hospital strikes worse in health crisis.

802
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 6: Israel has systematically methodically targeted all the hospitals in Gaza

803
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 6: of thirty two hospitals in Gaza, which we would call

804
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 6: real hospitals. I talked the other day to doctor Gassan Abusita,

805
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 6: who knows the medical system in Gaza very well.

806
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 4: He goes back there during every siege. He's a real hero.

807
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 4: I told him, you know, don't praise me so I

808
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 4: don't have your physical courage.

809
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 6: He was in Al Ali hospital during that attack, and

810
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 6: then he was in Al Shifa and he said, of

811
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 6: the thirty two, I asked him, how many hospitals are

812
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,919
Speaker 6: still operative? He said, of the thirty two hospitals four.

813
00:55:58,080 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 4: Okay.

814
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 6: Now, there is no example in modern history, none of

815
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 6: the systematic and methodical targeting of hospitals.

816
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 4: It doesn't exist.

817
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 6: That crosses a negative threshold into barbarism, a negative threshold

818
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 6: into barbarism.

819
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 4: The targeting of the wounded and the lane, the new born,

820
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 4: and the near dead.

821
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 6: That's what hospitals are, and that's what the targeted is.

822
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 6: Human Rights Watch have to say, quote, Human Rights Watch

823
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 6: has not been able to corroborate or seen any information

824
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 6: that would justify attacks on Gaza's hospitals.

825
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 4: No information that would justify.

826
00:56:52,680 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 6: Israel's attack on Gazza's hospitals Now Robert Kennedy talks about

827
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 6: warning people to leave. What other country with issue warnings

828
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 6: for them to leave, for example, the hospitals? Okay, what

829
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 6: does Human Rights Watch say? Those warnings were absolutely meaningless

830
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 6: because there was nowhere to flee. And how can people

831
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 6: in hospitals flee here, mister Kennedy, reality check. You know

832
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 6: why they're in hospitals because they are immobile. That's why

833
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 6: they're in hospitals. It says that Human Rights Watch is

834
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 6: concerned that the purpose of these warnings was not to

835
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 6: protect civilians, but to terrify them into leaving. That's a

836
00:57:52,200 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 6: mainstream human rights watch or Human Rights Watch, which is

837
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 6: a mainstream organization. Quoting again, Israel's broad based attack on

838
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 6: Gaza's healthcare system is an attack on the sick and

839
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 6: the injury on babies in incubators. These actions need to

840
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 6: be investigated as war crimes. But according to Robert Kennedy,

841
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 6: no other country in the world in the history of

842
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 6: humankind has ever done more to protect civilians and to

843
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 6: act discriminately than Israel.

844
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 4: Look at the numbers. Just look at the numbers. If

845
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 4: you were to randomly, indiscriminately.

846
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 6: Attack or target any area on Gazip any area in Gozip,

847
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 6: you would any area randomly, you would get roughly fifty

848
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 6: percent would be children, twenty five percent would be women,

849
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 6: and twenty five percent men roughly. Okay, if you look

850
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 6: at the actual statistic, what is it. It's forty three

851
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 6: percent children, about twenty five percent women and twenty five percent.

852
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 6: Then you know what that means. It means they're being

853
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 6: targeted indiscriminately. That's why you have those proportions, because that's

854
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 6: the proportion of that's the proportional breakdown of children, women,

855
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 6: and men in Gaza. So if you just overlay the

856
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 6: actual demographic breakdown in Gaza with the casualties in Gaza,

857
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 6: it's exactly the same. Why because they're indiscriminately being attacked.

858
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 6: That's why you have those proportions. There's no other conflict

859
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 6: in the modern world where you have those percentages for

860
00:59:58,880 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 6: women and children.

861
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 3: Not even going.

862
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 6: Now. Human Rights Watch released another report yesterday about this

863
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 6: country that's doing everything it can. According to Robert Kennedy

864
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 6: or Shmuley body a is puppeteer, Israel is doing everything possible.

865
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 9: Okay, So Israel announced the first week of its assault

866
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 9: and Gaza it's gonna bar any food, fuel, electricity.

867
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 4: Or water to enter Gozzam. Now did they say they're

868
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 4: going to bar a just to Hamas. That's not what

869
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 4: they said.

870
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 6: Now, mister Kennedy and your compound, you're Kennedy compound.

871
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 4: If all the food, fuel, water and electric were turned off.

872
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 6: And those are blockade, what do you think would happen

873
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 6: to everybody in your compound?

874
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 4: How long would they survive? Would they survive? Two months?

875
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 4: So what does Human Rights Watch say?

876
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 6: The report issued yesterday December eighteenth, the headline Starvation used

877
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 6: as weapon of war in Gaza? Starvation used as weapon

878
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 6: of war in Gaza? What's the first bullet point? The

879
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 6: Israeli government is using starvation of civilians as a method

880
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 6: of warfare in the Gaza strip. It's depriving the civilian

881
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 6: population of objects indispensable to their survival. And then it

882
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 6: says the people of Gaza are now suffering severe levels

883
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 6: of hunger. In fact, the World Food Program it stated

884
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 6: two days ago that fifty percent of God's population as

885
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 6: we speak, as Bill Laher is making his sick jokes,

886
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 6: humoring his sick audience of six sacks of shit like

887
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 6: himself in the middle of that's so funny, and they're

888
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 6: so uproariously laughing, though I do believe half of the

889
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 6: people laughing are paying to laugh, but got to side

890
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 6: from the point, or or got in exchange, you know,

891
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 6: got tickets in exchange.

892
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 4: Your problems need to laugh.

893
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 6: And that moron, he's making all his jokes. Oh, it's

894
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 6: so funny, it's so funny. You six sack of shit

895
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 6: that fifty percent of the population of Gaza is starving today. Oh,

896
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 6: that's so funny, that's so so funny. Just think of

897
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 6: a nazine in a nightclub or a cabaret in Germany

898
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 6: making those kinds of jokes while Jews were dying to

899
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 6: the left and right, dropping like flies in the Warsaw ghetto.

900
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 4: I remember my mother. My mother never really talked about

901
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 4: the worst asked. She didn't talk about the concentration campra,

902
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 4: she didn't.

903
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 6: What she constantly talked to me about was the hunger, hunger,

904
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 6: the walking through the ghetto because there were all the

905
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 6: typhus and the other transmittable diseases. So people were dying

906
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 6: on the left and the right and walking through and

907
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 6: she did the pangs of hunger.

908
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 4: And just imagine a Nazi a Nazi comedian.

909
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 6: In a cabaret like Bill Maher his horn written glasses,

910
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 6: thinks he's going to look intelligent by putting on those glasses.

911
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 6: He suddenly becomes serious making those jokes as half the

912
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 6: population in gazam is, according to the World Food Program,

913
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 6: now suffering from starvation, or according to.

914
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 4: Robert F.

915
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 6: Kennedy, they're doing everything they can to protect civilians. And

916
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 6: then they quote, they quote from this country that's doing

917
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 6: everything they can to protect civilians.

918
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 4: So here's one quote they quote.

919
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 6: There are many, there's a long list that Human Rights

920
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 6: Watch quotes. Here's one from a senior Israeli official in

921
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 6: the civil administration.

922
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 4: He says, this is from November fourth.

923
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 6: Whoever returns to Gaza, if they return here, if they

924
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 6: return here, will find scorched earth, no houses, no agriculture.

925
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:21,439
Speaker 4: No nothing. They have no future. Yes, mister Kennedy, Yes,

926
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 4: mister Kennedy.

927
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 6: They're doing everything in their power not to kill civilians.

928
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 4: They're very discriminating. Whoever returns here will.

929
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 6: Find scorched earth, no houses, no agriculture, no nothing.

930
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 4: They have no future.

931
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 3: Wow, norm what about the claim that he made about Egypt.

932
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 4: Okay, just I'm going to get to the second, and

933
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 4: they'll get to the Egypt.

934
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 3: Sure.

935
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: The second was that Israel withdrew from Gaza in two

936
01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: thousand and five.

937
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 6: There's no disputed among them about that, among international among

938
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 6: international lawyers and international organizations, even Israel's senior expert in

939
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 6: international law, who's very conservative. You're a dnstin, he said,

940
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 6: this reel remains an occupying power in gods. It controls everything.

941
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 6: It controls who goes in, who goes out, what goes in,

942
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 6: what goes out. It controls the population registry who qualifies

943
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 6: as being a Gazan. It controls the water ways, It

944
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 6: controls the airspace and controls the water.

945
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 4: Just for your listeners, just you listen.

946
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 6: I just want them to know what it meant, what

947
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 6: it meant for the people of Gaza, what this blockade

948
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 6: of Godza meant when Israel no longer controlled it. It's

949
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 6: not an occupying power, says the lawyer.

950
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 4: Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

951
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 6: So, at certain points, here is a partial list of

952
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 6: the things Israel ban from entering Gaza simultaneously, not like

953
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 6: one of the time, Okay, right, right, then, Sage Coriander Ginger,

954
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 6: jam Halva Vinegar nutmeg, chocolate, chocolate, fruit preserves, nuts, biscuits,

955
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 6: potato chips, musical instruments, notebooks, writing implements, toys, chicks, and goats.

956
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 4: But Gazza is a free country Israel left, says Robert Kennedy.

957
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 4: Israel doesn't occupy Gaza.

958
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 6: There was a point where Israel put on people of

959
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 6: Gaza a humanitarian minimum of calories, humanitarian minimum of calories.

960
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 4: That means they put the people.

961
01:07:55,120 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 6: Of Gaza on a starvation plus diet. But they have

962
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 6: no responsibility what's going on in Gaza. They withdrew. The

963
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 6: occupation is over, as I said, As far as I know,

964
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 6: no international organization or international law specialists claims that the

965
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 6: occupation ended when Israel. What Israel did was very simple.

966
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 6: Anybody can understand it. Child can understand it. Israel got

967
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 6: tired of policing Gazam because they said, there's no future here.

968
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:35,719
Speaker 6: We have eight thousand settlers. There are two million Gaza

969
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 6: Arabs here. So we're never going to get rid of

970
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 6: these Arabs and we'll never be able to do with

971
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 6: it what we hope to do in the West Bank,

972
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 6: you know, change the balance of population.

973
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 4: So just forget it. So you know, what they did,

974
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 4: they took it. So there are things like in Ghaza.

975
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 4: Gozms couldn't go to the beach. Okay.

976
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 6: So they said, we'll throw the keys in the jail

977
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 6: cells and let them out of the jail cells.

978
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 4: Okay. And then they withdrew from the jail or the prison.

979
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 6: They drew from the prison, slammed shut the gates, and

980
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:18,960
Speaker 6: then encircled.

981
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,679
Speaker 4: The whole prison. Okay.

982
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 6: Now, yes, the prisoners had more freedom of movement. I'm

983
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 6: not gonna deny that they now could go to the beach,

984
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 6: It's true. But they can't go anywhere else. They can't

985
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:43,839
Speaker 6: go out. Nothing can come in jam, chocolate, nothing, Sage

986
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 6: Coriander would anyone in his or her right mind describing

987
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 6: that as Israel left Gaza. What they did was they

988
01:09:54,960 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 6: encircled it. They didn't leave Gaza. I'll just give you

989
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 6: an example. People don't like to hear my examples. Unfortunately,

990
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 6: my examples don't come from my head. They come from

991
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 6: the Israeli heads.

992
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 4: Okay.

993
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 6: So the head of Israel's National Security Council's name is

994
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 6: Gira was now was Gira Island.

995
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 4: You can google it.

996
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 6: Just go right now, go in front of your computer,

997
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 6: just google Gio R A and then the last name

998
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 6: E I, L A N D and then.

999
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 4: Editor March two thousand and four.

1000
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 6: March two thousand and four, and the document's going to

1001
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 6: come up the first choice.

1002
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:43,680
Speaker 1: The first one is Gaza. The ruin Gaza is a

1003
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:45,959
Speaker 1: huge concentration camp.

1004
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 6: Right Dora Island. If you look at it's item number

1005
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 6: twelve in this numerandum. He was the head of the

1006
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 6: National Security Council Okay of Israel, equivalent of our James Burns,

1007
01:10:58,960 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 6: the current.

1008
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:01,680
Speaker 4: Head of the CIA.

1009
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 6: So in two thousand and four, two thousand and four,

1010
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 6: this is before the blockade, before the blockade. If you

1011
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 6: go to that item, he describes guys Gouds as quote

1012
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 6: a huge concentration camp, a huge concentration camp. And then

1013
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 6: you hear people saying, there's this young man who had

1014
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 6: got into a long correspondence with I'm not going to

1015
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:30,520
Speaker 6: name them because I don't want to resume that corresponse.

1016
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 6: He keeps saying, God's is a developing country, developing country.

1017
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 4: Nothing can come and nothing can go out.

1018
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:48,680
Speaker 6: It's a huge concentration gamp. It's before the blockade. He

1019
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:55,600
Speaker 6: described it the island as such, so we can dispose

1020
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,560
Speaker 6: of that issue, whether or not God's it remains occupying.

1021
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 6: Let's go to the favorite question. Now, I'll tell you,

1022
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 6: I admit and maybe there's I struggle between my political.

1023
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 4: Side and my humanitarian side.

1024
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 6: Now, under international law, Egypt is a sovereign country and

1025
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 6: has the right to decide who comes in and who

1026
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 6: goes out. It's called immigration and immigration. No, they don't

1027
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 6: have the right decide who goes out, but they have

1028
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 6: the right to decide who comes in.

1029
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 4: And there is an entry point, the Rafa crossing between

1030
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:34,679
Speaker 4: Egypt and Gaza.

1031
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 6: Now Egypt's position, I don't defend the Egyptian government. C

1032
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:44,560
Speaker 6: sees a monster. He came to cop power in the

1033
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,719
Speaker 6: military coup, and the course of that coup he committed

1034
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 6: the largest massacre of Egyptians in Egyptian history.

1035
01:12:53,800 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 4: The our well, I can't remember another. Now they'll come

1036
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 4: back to me.

1037
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 6: In any case, you're at least a thousand, maybe as

1038
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 6: many as two thousand, non violent protesters. It's again to power.

1039
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 6: So I'm making no brief for mister c c Right. However,

1040
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 6: there is a real problem here. The problem is, and

1041
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 6: I admit, it's a moral it's a moral dilemma. Once

1042
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 6: you leave, guys that you're not coming back. It's over.

1043
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 6: We know that from Israel's history. We know that from

1044
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 6: the refugees in forty eight, we know that from refugees

1045
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 6: in nineteen sixty seven. Once you're out, it's goodbye. Egypt

1046
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 6: doesn't want to help Israel assist Israel in committing an ethnic.

1047
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 4: Cleansing, So now you have really I consider it. It

1048
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:53,759
Speaker 4: is a dilemma.

1049
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 6: On the one hand, people are being starved to death,

1050
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 6: they're being murdered from the eyes, and they need refuge.

1051
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 4: On the other hand, it's a permanent refuge.

1052
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 6: And so Egypt says it won't facilitate, it won't a bet,

1053
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:20,879
Speaker 6: it won't assist Israel in its ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

1054
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 4: What do you do?

1055
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 6: On the one hand, I say, oh, f politics, these

1056
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 6: people are being killed, these people are being murdered, let

1057
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 6: them go.

1058
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 4: And no. But on the other hand, do you want to.

1059
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:43,480
Speaker 6: Wittingly and unwittingly, because it's at the same time willfully

1060
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 6: and unwilfully assists Israel and ethnic cleansing. I don't think

1061
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 6: that's an easy question. You know, I don't have an

1062
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 6: answer to that. Am I going to start demanding that

1063
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 6: Egypt open its border and let them all pour into that.

1064
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:01,759
Speaker 4: All the people have got support into the Sinai desert.

1065
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 6: No, actually, if I had a choice, I would rather

1066
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 6: demand that Israel stop committing Gennacaie rather than saying open

1067
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 6: up Rapha, I'll say stop committing the Gennacaie.

1068
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 4: If I had to choose between the two.

1069
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 6: And let's be clear about it, Professor Chomsky would always

1070
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 6: distinguished him and his analysis of any world situation was

1071
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 6: he did basically what you did when you talk with

1072
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 6: Robert Kennedy, because you were insistent, because he kept in

1073
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 6: trying to insinuate you're an anti semi why are you

1074
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:37,679
Speaker 6: focusing on Israel? And you kept replying because we're paying

1075
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 6: for the whole thing. And Professor Chomsky would always come

1076
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 6: back to it's our responsibility because we're making it happen. Now,

1077
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 6: let's be clear, and I don't want him there to

1078
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 6: be any doubt about it. As a factual matter, the

1079
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 6: whole thing would end in the United States. If mister

1080
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:00,719
Speaker 6: Biden picked up a phone right now and said stop,

1081
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 6: it would be all over.

1082
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:08,639
Speaker 4: It wouldn't last one second more. If Biden said stop,

1083
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 4: remember it.

1084
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 6: It feels dependent on our arms, and right now it's

1085
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,879
Speaker 6: economy has become dysfunctional because there are hundreds of thousands

1086
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:21,719
Speaker 6: of soldiers who are fighting, or they're not really fighting,

1087
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:27,720
Speaker 6: they're committing a massacre of genocide. Who's Israeli society would

1088
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 6: cease the function without the US leaving aside the political

1089
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:41,280
Speaker 6: fallout if the United States went switched to supporting a ceasefire.

1090
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 4: So the whole thing couldn't happen without the US literally

1091
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 4: old by, you know, Biden.

1092
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 6: Biden said, you have to pretend that you're doing some

1093
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:54,759
Speaker 6: humanitarian gestures.

1094
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 4: You know that than forty trucks. Immediately they did it.

1095
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 4: They did it. They knew they had no choice. So

1096
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 4: if you ask me if I had a choice, just

1097
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 4: let me finish. And of course I want to hear

1098
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 4: you if I have a.

1099
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:15,719
Speaker 6: Choice between advocating Egypt opened up Ralpha crossing and saying

1100
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 6: Biden stopped the genocide because.

1101
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 4: It is his genocide. It is his genocide. And Bernie,

1102
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 4: you know it's coming pretty close. It's too late, it's

1103
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 4: too late, or I should say it's too little, but

1104
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,040
Speaker 4: it's never too late. You have to be clear about that.

1105
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 4: Half the population is now starving.

1106
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 6: So if it were to end tomorrow and that Bernie

1107
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 6: has joined the bandwagon it has to end tomorrow, then

1108
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:46,679
Speaker 6: it's not too late. He has five thousand children's deaths

1109
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:48,920
Speaker 6: to account for, because it was only I think it

1110
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 6: was five or six thousand when he started to change

1111
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 6: his tomb and now you know, he's surprised a going

1112
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 6: for congressional legislation to restrict you know, he's not been

1113
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 6: you know, I uh, I have to be attentive to

1114
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:09,719
Speaker 6: facts and I have to recognize, you know, you changed.

1115
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 6: I think it was it was unbearable for him because

1116
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 6: he was all these young people saying how he let

1117
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 6: them down? And you know, people have egos, and he

1118
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:21,679
Speaker 6: was the hope of a generation. He was the hope

1119
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 6: of a generation, and he became an abomination. And you

1120
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 6: can imagine his children and his grandchildren, Daddy, Grandpa, why

1121
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 6: are you opposing a cease fire?

1122
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 4: You know? And he couldn't.

1123
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:41,560
Speaker 6: Obviously, it's very hard to plumb the human mind, and

1124
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 6: so what's the point of being a psychoanalyst from Afar?

1125
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was I think in that for a while

1126
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 1: people could kind of like fantasize that maybe there was

1127
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: some more ethical targeting of Hamas that was on the table.

1128
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: But at a certain point when you see the numbers,

1129
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 1: I mean very quickly and just knowing that it's the

1130
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,799
Speaker 1: net Nyahoo government, knowing you know, any of the history,

1131
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 1: you could immediately see that was never some targeted you know,

1132
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,759
Speaker 1: raid to just take out a few top Hamas leaders

1133
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 1: and try to win over the civilian population. That was

1134
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 1: It was never going to be. That was never on

1135
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 1: the table as a response to what happened on October seventh.

1136
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 6: I now that you brought that up, you know, people act,

1137
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 6: I don't fault them. You know, I had devolowed the

1138
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 6: whole of my adult life to.

1139
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:38,240
Speaker 4: This against my will.

1140
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 6: I never knew what I was getting into the wars beginning,

1141
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,560
Speaker 6: war's end, and then you figure you'll move on. I

1142
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 6: got involved in nineteen eighty two. Who would think that

1143
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 6: would consume my entire adult life?

1144
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:55,800
Speaker 4: Wow? And so I can understand people not knowing all

1145
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 4: the facts.

1146
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 6: How would they It took me me intensive study twenty

1147
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 6: four seven, three sixty five to learn the facts. So

1148
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 6: I'm not faulting anyone. I'm just saying it's a factual matter.

1149
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 6: Let's say this whole thing that came up with Israel fighting,

1150
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 6: firing and killing three civilians who were carrying white flags, right,

1151
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 6: and everyone's shocked. And then I posted on my website.

1152
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 6: In two thousand and nine, Human Rights Watch put out

1153
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:40,679
Speaker 6: a report right after Operation cast LT between December twenty seventh,

1154
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 6: in January seven, twenty seven, two thousand and eight, and

1155
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 6: January seventeen, two thousand and nine, and the report was

1156
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 6: entitled white Flag Killings. It's only shoot speaker with white flags.

1157
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 6: There's nothing new there, right, It's not like it was

1158
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 6: what's I knew I was? They killed Israelis.

1159
01:21:02,479 --> 01:21:03,719
Speaker 3: That's why people paid attention.

1160
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 6: It only shoots people with white flags, or shoots Palestinians

1161
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:09,759
Speaker 6: with white flags.

1162
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:15,640
Speaker 10: So people say, oh, because of the special circumstances of

1163
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 10: what happened on October seventh, it's enraged Israelis and it's

1164
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:24,679
Speaker 10: it's because of that that they're acting carried on this way.

1165
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 4: So I would like to ask you in check the time, Okay,

1166
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:34,320
Speaker 4: I would like to ask you turn the page of

1167
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 4: my Gaza book. Turn to page two thousand and nine.

1168
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 3: All right, in the Gaza book.

1169
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 4: Yes, it's table four.

1170
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:44,559
Speaker 1: All right, here we go, I found it, okay, Table four.

1171
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 1: How Israel fought Operation Protective Edge. A selection of IDF

1172
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:48,960
Speaker 1: testimony is that one.

1173
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 6: Yes, Now, I'd like you to bear in mind before

1174
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:55,920
Speaker 6: I ask you to read it, that these are soldiers

1175
01:21:55,960 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 6: who form in Operation Protective Edge before October seven, turning

1176
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 6: about twenty fourteen. Okay, or and every soldier you say

1177
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:07,559
Speaker 6: not peace snakes right? Well, see except for one. There

1178
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 6: are no apologies, no feelings of remorse. They're just matter

1179
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 6: of fact, we describing.

1180
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 4: What they did in Gaza. Okay.

1181
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 6: Now, just going to ask you to read down. Skip

1182
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 6: the numbers, because that's just the page numbers. And for

1183
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,160
Speaker 6: each different testimony. Just do this because it's will be

1184
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:32,599
Speaker 6: easier for the listener. Just go soldier and then read

1185
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:36,280
Speaker 6: the testimony. Soldier, read another testimony, just read them for

1186
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 6: the listeners.

1187
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 1: Okay, So Soldier, when we left after the operation, it

1188
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:44,679
Speaker 1: was just a barren stretch of desert. We spoke about

1189
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:46,799
Speaker 1: it a lot amongst ourselves, the guys from the company.

1190
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 1: How crazy the amount of damage we did there was?

1191
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 1: I quote, listen, man, it's crazy what went on in there.

1192
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 1: Listen man, we really mess them up. Fuck check it out.

1193
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 1: There's nothing at all left. It's nothing but desert. Now

1194
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Next, Soldier, I remember that the level of

1195
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 1: destruction looked insane to me.

1196
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 3: Soldier.

1197
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 1: We entered Gaza with an insane amount of fire power. Soldier,

1198
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 1: it all looked like a sci fi movie, serious levels

1199
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 1: of destruction everywhere. Everything was really in ruins and NonStop

1200
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 1: fire all the time.

1201
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:20,280
Speaker 3: Soldier.

1202
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:22,439
Speaker 1: Before the entrance on foot to the Gaza strip, a

1203
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 1: crazy amount of artillery was fired at the entire area.

1204
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,760
Speaker 1: Before a tank makes any movement, it fires every time.

1205
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 1: Those guys were trigger happy, totally crazy. Do you want

1206
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: me to continue? Yes, yes, Soldier. The explosions effects cause

1207
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: major amounts of damage, but that doesn't interest anyone.

1208
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 3: Use it, use it.

1209
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: Explosives can't be taken back. The platoon commander says, I

1210
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:47,200
Speaker 1: don't want to leave explosives with me.

1211
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 3: Soldier.

1212
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 1: Our view was of the center of the strip. Let's

1213
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,200
Speaker 1: say it was a real fireworks display. From a distance,

1214
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 1: it looked pretty cool. If you look through a night

1215
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: vision scope, you saw crazy wreckage. It was a real trip.

1216
01:23:58,960 --> 01:23:59,320
Speaker 3: Soldier.

1217
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 1: You're shooting it anything that moves, and also what isn't

1218
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,600
Speaker 1: moving crazy amounts. It also becomes a bit like a

1219
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 1: computer game. Totally cool and real, Soldier, it was total.

1220
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 3: Destruction in there.

1221
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:12,439
Speaker 1: The photos online are child's play compared to what we

1222
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 1: saw there.

1223
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:17,920
Speaker 3: In reality. I never saw anything like it, soldiering, you

1224
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 3: get enough idea.

1225
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, Crystal, you know, I don't like to play

1226
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 6: the mother card, because fathers also care about their children.

1227
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:30,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, but as a mother, this is what mowing the

1228
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 4: lawn meant in Gaza.

1229
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:36,040
Speaker 6: This is what those kids who burst the gates of

1230
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 6: Gaza experienced every few years from that Satanic state. That's

1231
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 6: what they experienced, That's what they underwent. Yeah, this wasn't

1232
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 6: because of October seventh. What we're seeing now. Yes, it's

1233
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:52,519
Speaker 6: in the higher scale because the past Isvielle just wanted

1234
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:56,680
Speaker 6: to mow the lawn. Now it wants to extirpate the

1235
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,840
Speaker 6: fancy word for pullout by the roots. Now it wants

1236
01:24:59,880 --> 01:25:03,600
Speaker 6: to extirpate every blade of grass in Goza. Before we

1237
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:06,600
Speaker 6: just wanted to cut it down every few years. This

1238
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 6: is not because of October seven any more than shooting

1239
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:14,600
Speaker 6: people with white flags and they're chested has to do

1240
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:19,639
Speaker 6: with October seven. That's Israel's modus operende in Gaza. That's

1241
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 6: always been It's modus operende in Gaza.

1242
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 1: Well, Norm, I really am grateful for your time as

1243
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 1: always and your patients and explaining things so people can

1244
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 1: have a sense of the history and a sense of

1245
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,439
Speaker 1: the facts. Is there any of your books in particular

1246
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: you would recommend to folks to read at this time.

1247
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 6: Yeah. Look, I don't like to make money off of

1248
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 6: the dead, so I'm always very careful about promoting myself.

1249
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 4: But there is an educational value, of course.

1250
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 6: So on the Gaza book, that's the fruit of I

1251
01:25:55,120 --> 01:26:00,080
Speaker 6: started researching Gaza about just focusing on gods about two

1252
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 6: thousand and eight, so it's the food of about fifteen years,

1253
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 6: just on Gossin. You know, I never thought I wrote it.

1254
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 6: If you look at the very last page of the book,

1255
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 6: the body of the book, I wrote, uh, I wrote

1256
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:27,760
Speaker 6: the author, meaning myself. I actually I'd rather you read

1257
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:29,759
Speaker 6: it because I prefer you have a good reading voice.

1258
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:35,200
Speaker 6: Five the very last page, right before.

1259
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 1: The appendix three fifty five, you said three sixty five

1260
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:42,759
Speaker 1: sixty five Okay that I am finding.

1261
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 4: Okay, you'll start from It's around eight lines down. The

1262
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:49,400
Speaker 4: author holds.

1263
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:55,479
Speaker 1: The author holds out fate hope that it will find

1264
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 1: an audience among his contemporaries.

1265
01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,719
Speaker 4: Still, this book will find an audience.

1266
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 1: Yes, Still, the truth should be preserved. It is the

1267
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 1: least that's owed the victims. Perhaps one day, in the

1268
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:08,879
Speaker 1: remote future, when the tenor of the times is more receptive,

1269
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 1: someone will stumble across this book collecting dust on a

1270
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 1: library shelf, blow off the cobwebs, and be stung by

1271
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 1: outrage at the lot of a people, if not forsaken

1272
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:22,520
Speaker 1: by God, then betrayed by the cupidity and corruption, careerism

1273
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:26,400
Speaker 1: and cynicism, cravenness and cowardice of mortal man. There will

1274
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:28,920
Speaker 1: come a time Jackson, anticipated.

1275
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 4: Are just let me clarified.

1276
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 6: There was a woman named Helen Hunt Jackson, and she

1277
01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 6: chronicled the destruction of the Native American people in the

1278
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 6: United States. And her book was called A Century of

1279
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 6: dishonor a wonderful Book. And so I'm referring back to

1280
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,960
Speaker 6: her book when she describes what was done to the

1281
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:53,720
Speaker 6: Native Americans in our country, and I say, there will

1282
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:54,719
Speaker 6: become a time.

1283
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:58,599
Speaker 1: When to the student of American history it will seem

1284
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: well nigh incredible what was done to the Cherokee. It

1285
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:03,599
Speaker 1: is not certain that one.

1286
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:06,560
Speaker 3: Day the Black records of is it not certain.

1287
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 1: Will seem well nigh incredible what was done to the

1288
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 1: Cherokee Cherokee? Is it not certain that one day the

1289
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 1: black record of Gaza's martyrdom will in retrospect also seem

1290
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 1: well nigh incredible.

1291
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. I never thought people would read the book.

1292
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:22,640
Speaker 10: It was.

1293
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 6: A chronicle for the future. I never saw it as

1294
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:30,559
Speaker 6: selling more than a you know, at most a couple

1295
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:34,600
Speaker 6: of thousand copies. That wasn't my goal. I felt that

1296
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:38,559
Speaker 6: it was what Helen Hauns chuckson. Did you know there

1297
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 6: was a after World War Two there was a famous

1298
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 6: book by two I guess one, maybe both of them

1299
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 6: were Jewish. One was Ilia Ehrenberg and I.

1300
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 4: Can't remember the other fellows. And it was called The.

1301
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:58,720
Speaker 6: Black Book of Nazism, just described the Russian describe what

1302
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:01,680
Speaker 6: was done to the Russian people by the Nazis. It

1303
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 6: was a chronicle, a very fat book. Obviously nobody's going

1304
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:06,760
Speaker 6: to not many people are going to go.

1305
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:08,720
Speaker 4: And that's how I saw this book. And it was

1306
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:09,840
Speaker 4: just totally.

1307
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 6: It was so strange because when October seventh happened, I

1308
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:19,639
Speaker 6: had already moved on. I thought the whole situation was hopeless,

1309
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 6: and as you know, I started writing a book on

1310
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 6: cancel culture and other things. And I was very excited

1311
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:26,560
Speaker 6: by that because I felt like, I know, it's a

1312
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:28,639
Speaker 6: horrible thing to say, but I felt like my mind

1313
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:32,320
Speaker 6: had been emancipated. I had been liberated because for forty

1314
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 6: years I couldn't move. I had this feeling of I'm

1315
01:29:35,240 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 6: the only one that's going to do this kind of research.

1316
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:38,800
Speaker 6: I'm the only one that's going to read through all

1317
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 6: these human rights organization reports. I'm the only one that's

1318
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 6: going to show every lie, you know, because most people

1319
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:45,320
Speaker 6: don't have.

1320
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 4: That kind of patience. I have the discipline.

1321
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 6: I don't have a great mind, but I have a

1322
01:29:49,439 --> 01:29:52,680
Speaker 6: disciplined mind, which is to say, I can focus and

1323
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:57,200
Speaker 6: go through everything with the fine teeth come and then

1324
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:03,240
Speaker 6: all of a sudden October seventh, it's like, well that

1325
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:04,799
Speaker 6: became relevant again.

1326
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:06,600
Speaker 4: I thought I was past it.

1327
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:11,920
Speaker 6: And so when I recommend the book to people, it's

1328
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 6: not because I expect to make money.

1329
01:30:14,479 --> 01:30:16,479
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm at that point in life for making money.

1330
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 4: It doesn't make much of the difference. So but I

1331
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 4: do feel it has an educative value and it's a

1332
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:25,960
Speaker 4: horror I mean, what was.

1333
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 6: Uh, what was done has been done to the people

1334
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 6: of gods is simply beyond belief. But most people have,

1335
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:37,400
Speaker 6: you know, they think everything began October seventh. Yeah.

1336
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so much of the history.

1337
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:44,879
Speaker 1: There's so many lies that are just pervasive in American

1338
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:48,520
Speaker 1: culture about the reality of the history and the details

1339
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 1: of what's actually unfolded. And you might say, well, that

1340
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, you know, the past of the past. It's

1341
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 1: just like focus on what's happening now in the future.

1342
01:30:56,240 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 1: But I mean, one thing that really comes clear when

1343
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:01,000
Speaker 1: you study this conflict at all is just how much

1344
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:04,680
Speaker 1: getting the facts straight about the past matters for some

1345
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 1: kind of an eventual, hopeful resolution. Doctor Norman Finkelstein is

1346
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: always great to see you. Thank you so much again

1347
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 1: for spending time with us.

1348
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:16,080
Speaker 4: Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I mean

1349
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 4: that you know you're serious. Uh, there's been a pattern

1350
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 4: I have to say. I know people aren't going to

1351
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:23,400
Speaker 4: like it.

1352
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 6: It's probably politically incorrect, but the female commentators don't ask

1353
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:33,320
Speaker 6: me why, whether it's Michaelea Peterson, uh, Candy's Owens, yourself,

1354
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 6: Brianna Joy. Great, they've just been much more uh. And

1355
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:39,960
Speaker 6: I mean this in a very positive sense. They've just

1356
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:43,479
Speaker 6: been much more humble. They recognize, you know, well, we

1357
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 6: have a lot of things to cover, and so we

1358
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 6: don't have your uh depth of knowledge, and will listen.

1359
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,800
Speaker 6: We'll listen, We'll ask questions, and we'll listen. And that's

1360
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 6: the common characteristic. You listen, you watch cand So owns

1361
01:31:57,160 --> 01:31:58,720
Speaker 6: wherever you think of her. I don't know anything about

1362
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:00,439
Speaker 6: her because I don't watch it social media.

1363
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 4: It's not my thing. Or MICHAELA.

1364
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:09,519
Speaker 6: Peterson, who I never heard of, uh So, and beyond

1365
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:12,840
Speaker 6: the joy Gray and yourself. So you listen, you take

1366
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 6: in and then you see these guys. I know it's

1367
01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:19,280
Speaker 6: probably politically correct, you know this, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris,

1368
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 6: this Bill Maher uh the.

1369
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:26,479
Speaker 4: You know, I accept the arrogance with.

1370
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:31,240
Speaker 6: People who are smart, Okay, accept this guy knows what

1371
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 6: he's talking about, even though he's an arrogant son of

1372
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:37,720
Speaker 6: a bitch. But this mixture of arrogance and complete stupidity,

1373
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 6: complete ignorance, you.

1374
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:42,200
Speaker 3: Know, it is an incredible combo, isn't it.

1375
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:49,240
Speaker 4: I think it was blowhearts. I think it's you know anything.

1376
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:51,520
Speaker 4: Bill Moore, lecturing on byzantium.

1377
01:32:56,200 --> 01:33:03,520
Speaker 6: So it's been it's been especially ratherifying to have interlocky.

1378
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 6: There is who showed the humility, and obviously they have

1379
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 6: the knowledge. I mean, you were, as I said, you

1380
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:13,719
Speaker 6: were very good with the Probert County I said, okay,

1381
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:15,240
Speaker 6: I went to thought.

1382
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 4: Of the responses. They were good.

1383
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 6: But still listen, you know, still listen, and I don't

1384
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:28,720
Speaker 6: demand that you agree with what I have to say,

1385
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 6: but a little humility. You have the clue what you're

1386
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:40,759
Speaker 6: talking about. It's like me talking about particle physics. Okay,

1387
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:41,840
Speaker 6: so so so nice to

1388
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 3: You, nor take care and happy holidays you too,