Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.
Speaker 2: Everyone Welcome The Mother Knows Death. On today's episode, we
Speaker 2: have a very special guest, Tom Smith, who is a
Speaker 2: retired NYPD police detective and one of the co hosts
Speaker 2: of the gold Shields podcasts. Today, we're going to do
Speaker 2: some news stories with Tom and ask them all of
Speaker 2: the police questions that we're dying to know with the
Speaker 2: latest news stories like Weezer's bassist wife being involved in
Speaker 2: a police shootout, a baby being mauled to death by
Speaker 2: their family dog, a case of necrophilia yes in a
Speaker 2: New York City subway, and the arsonist at Governor Shapiro's mansion.
Speaker 2: All that and more on today's episode. Him, thanks so
Speaker 2: much for being here today.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, talk about waiting for a show to do.
Speaker 1: We scheduled this and ever since then, especially after we
Speaker 1: did hours, it's been a all right, three more days,
Speaker 1: two more days, it's tomorrow. So I'm thrilled to be
Speaker 1: here and thank you so much for having me. And
Speaker 1: this is gonna be cool.
Speaker 2: So why don't you tell everyone what the podcast is about,
Speaker 2: because we did tell our listeners to listen to our episode.
Speaker 2: We'll listen to them all the time, but listen especially
Speaker 2: to Maria and I's episode that was on last week.
Speaker 2: But tell everybody a little bit about what you guys
Speaker 2: are doing on the podcast.
Speaker 1: So what we do is Dan and I are both
Speaker 1: retired NYPD detectives who did combine fifty years in the NYPD.
Speaker 1: Dan was my sergeant and partner in a couple of
Speaker 1: different details that we were on together, and what we
Speaker 1: wanted to do was get these stories out there that
Speaker 1: people might not might know about but not really know about,
Speaker 1: and these high profile cases and military missions, but get
Speaker 1: a kind of backstory to them. So what we did
Speaker 1: is we have the guests on who actually did them,
Speaker 1: the detectives, the Seal Team six operators, victims of crimes,
Speaker 1: to tell their own story about what happened with the case.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times the feedback we get is, wow,
Speaker 1: I knew about the case, but I didn't know that well,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that much about it, which is the
Speaker 1: point of it. That's what we want to do. And
Speaker 1: Dan and I were very intent on not telling someone
Speaker 1: else's story, you know, let the person who went through
Speaker 1: it and did it tell their own story, and that's
Speaker 1: basically what it is. You know, we all get kind
Speaker 1: of pigeonholed into a genre and true crime we are,
Speaker 1: but I always like to tell everyone we're more of
Speaker 1: a true story podcast than that because of the stories
Speaker 1: we hear blow our mind a lot with what we
Speaker 1: hear because we don't have a script, you know, we
Speaker 1: just kind to have conversations and a lot of the
Speaker 1: information coming about these cases we never heard about. So
Speaker 1: the reactions are pretty authentic with with Dan and I
Speaker 1: being blown away sometimes. So it's been a great ride
Speaker 1: and we just love doing it. Well.
Speaker 2: We commonly find when we're looking up news stories that
Speaker 2: maybe one news source like NBC writes something and basically
Speaker 2: every other news source just copies what they wrote essentially.
Speaker 2: So I could see that you would want to get
Speaker 2: stories from other people because they're not really digging much
Speaker 2: deeper on a lot of these cases.
Speaker 1: Right They're they're satisfied with with the oh wow headline
Speaker 1: or you know, the the dramatic, you know, just face
Speaker 1: story of what it is, but don't go into why
Speaker 1: it is and what happened and the particular is about it,
Speaker 1: which are more interesting than just a headline. Uh, and
Speaker 1: that's what we wanted to do with it. You know,
Speaker 1: we got all the time comments of you know, I
Speaker 1: knew about that military mission because I read about it whatever,
Speaker 1: but had no idea about a B and C. And
Speaker 1: that's the point of it. And that's what, you know,
Speaker 1: we keep hearing that. That's what keeps driving us to
Speaker 1: get more of these stories out there.
Speaker 2: So what are some of the high profile cases that
Speaker 2: you've covered and had interviews?
Speaker 1: Oh? Boy, we did the Scott Peterson case. We had
Speaker 1: the detective who actually locked Scott Peterson up, so we
Speaker 1: talked about that. The Oh god, Ted Bundy's a victim
Speaker 1: of a victim of Ted Bundy. Kathy Kleine Rubin who
Speaker 1: survived an attacked by Ted Bundy, who had her on
Speaker 1: the night Stalker, you know, Gil Carrera who locked him up,
Speaker 1: was on it. That was a chilling episode of hearing
Speaker 1: the integral parts of going after a serial killer. You know,
Speaker 1: we read about him, we see movies on it, but
Speaker 1: to get a first hand account of how to do
Speaker 1: it was a great episode. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I just listened to Your Vegas Shooter episode two,
Speaker 2: and I think that's the case. You know, I was
Speaker 2: all over watching the news, but hearing your Guys episode
Speaker 2: and just the first person point of view about what
Speaker 2: went down that day, it just so much more compelling,
Speaker 2: like we're talking about, than reading it just online or
Speaker 2: seeing it covered on TV, because you just really have
Speaker 2: no idea what it's like unless you're there, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Josh was amazing. That was, you know, one of those
Speaker 1: that Dan and I just shut up and just let
Speaker 1: Josh talk and tell the story. And that was one
Speaker 1: of those, you know that you remember recently, you know,
Speaker 1: the other ones were a few years ago, and that
Speaker 1: one's still fresh in everyone's mind. So to hear that
Speaker 1: reaction and we've all been there, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think I said it in the show Maria that you know, cops,
Speaker 1: you could be sitting around doing nothing, laughing, joking, and
Speaker 1: thirty seconds later, the world is ending and that's police work.
Speaker 1: And that's what Josh kind of put out there of
Speaker 1: training with the dogs and you got uniform shirt off
Speaker 1: and it's a nice day and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it looks like armageddon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I believe you made a really good point
Speaker 2: on that episode too, or maybe it was at our
Speaker 2: dinner last week, but you had said something along the
Speaker 2: lines of, like, these things sometimes happen to somebody, These
Speaker 2: traumatic things only occur to people one time, But for
Speaker 2: police officers in particular, this is just another day at work.
Speaker 2: And sometimes they have won two, three scenes this traumatic
Speaker 2: in a day. And I can't imagine how hard that is.
Speaker 1: To process, right, you know, the average person will have
Speaker 1: three to four, maybe five traumatic events in their lifetime.
Speaker 1: I could literally have you know, ten in a night,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was on patrol, you know, just
Speaker 1: constantly going to nine one one calls and tragedies and
Speaker 1: all that. You could literally, you know, just have that
Speaker 1: number in one tour in one night and add that
Speaker 1: up over a career. And that's why you know, this
Speaker 1: job is so demanding, both physically and mentally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at it's cool because I mean when you think
Speaker 2: about being a new working in New York and being
Speaker 2: a detective there, most people would be exposed to a
Speaker 2: lot of crazy shit there, Like just because like one
Speaker 2: of the stories we're going to talk about today is
Speaker 2: just enough to be like, Okay, these people are seeing
Speaker 2: some crazy stuff. But even smaller departments, like they never
Speaker 2: know what they're going to come across either, So it's
Speaker 2: cool that you're interviewing people from all over to just
Speaker 2: get this different perspectives on where they're working and what
Speaker 2: the population's like and how populated it is. Like Vegas,
Speaker 2: for example, has a lot of tourists where and New
Speaker 2: York does too, but where I live, Like, no, that's
Speaker 2: not even a thing on their mind. So it's just
Speaker 2: cool to get a perspective from all different law enforcement officers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, when we started and we first put
Speaker 1: it out there, a lot of people were under the
Speaker 1: impression that we would just do in and YPD stories
Speaker 1: just because of the name of the show and where
Speaker 1: Dan and I are from, and we were like, not
Speaker 1: even close. I mean, in one hundred and fifteen shows
Speaker 1: that we've done, we've maybe done four at WHITEPD shows.
Speaker 1: And that just goes to your example and Nicole, that
Speaker 1: the stories of great investigations and traumatic events and all
Speaker 1: that are all over the country, and we've had so
Speaker 1: many with like you said, small towns or smaller police
Speaker 1: departments that you know, these heroic events happen with cops
Speaker 1: getting shot and or saving lives or all that, and
Speaker 1: that's what we wanted to do. We wanted to make
Speaker 1: it a nationwide and worldwide show. And luckily we are
Speaker 1: so far.
Speaker 2: So all right, So saying talking about getting shot, this
Speaker 2: is good for our first story because this is a
Speaker 2: super bizarre one that came out this week. Do you Ray,
Speaker 2: do you want to get into it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So Jilly and Lauren Schriner, who is the wife of
Speaker 2: Weezer's Basis Scotch, she was in this incredibly strange situation
Speaker 2: last week where she ended up getting in this police shootout.
Speaker 2: I mean, the details of this story are just so bizarre.
Speaker 3: So she wasn't.
Speaker 2: Involved at all, and I guess the person that was
Speaker 2: accused of doing a hit and run had just ran
Speaker 2: away from the scene and went into one of her neighbor's.
Speaker 3: Yards or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it appears there was some sort of police you know,
Speaker 2: chase going on from a hit and run incident, and
Speaker 2: these suspects had ended up in her neighborhood and by
Speaker 2: the time the police got there, they found her with
Speaker 2: a nine millimeter on her porch and they had said
Speaker 2: to her multiple times, please put your gun down, and then,
Speaker 2: according to the police, she shot at them and then
Speaker 2: they shot at her. She ended up getting shot in
Speaker 2: the shoulder but it's all over the place with what
Speaker 2: actually went down and why was she even involved in
Speaker 2: this in the first place. I am thinking, like, if
Speaker 2: I had a weapon and the police officer was telling
Speaker 2: me to put it down, of course I would. But
Speaker 2: she he's saying, she was defending her home, and I
Speaker 2: don't really know what was going on there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a bizarre story to read about and
Speaker 1: do some checking on. And what it seems that happened was,
Speaker 1: you know, she had a gun in the house and
Speaker 1: she's protecting herself and probably just heard someone in the
Speaker 1: backyard walking around, went out to take a look, and
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario happens. It's at night. She probably
Speaker 1: couldn't see who it was. She doesn't trust someone just
Speaker 1: yelling the police and without surveying what's going on and
Speaker 1: taking a second, you know, just starts shooting. And the
Speaker 1: police are in that area looking for I think a
Speaker 1: carjack or something to that effect. So they were already
Speaker 1: amped up looking for someone that might have a weapon.
Speaker 1: Now someone pops up in front of you with a
Speaker 1: weapon and starts shooting it you. So that's the worst
Speaker 1: case scenario you can think of, And you know what
Speaker 1: she's lucky she's still live, you know, with what could
Speaker 1: have happened. But that's scary situations when you run into
Speaker 1: people who are armed, whether they have a permit or not,
Speaker 1: and they're defending their home or whatever. But the biggest
Speaker 1: part is, no matter what permit you have, you're usually
Speaker 1: not trained enough to deal with this situation like that
Speaker 1: of how to do it, how to talk, how to
Speaker 1: recognize police officers, you know, and all that. So I
Speaker 1: think that also played a contributing factory to what happened.
Speaker 2: So I have a question in je because I think
Speaker 2: about this often when you hear about people who are
Speaker 2: carrying I personally feel like I know all the steps
Speaker 2: that you have to go through. It are pretty vigorous.
Speaker 2: A person that's concealed carry like legit permit and everything.
Speaker 2: As a law enforcement officer, do you feel better knowing
Speaker 2: that there's people that are armed around that could potentially
Speaker 2: help you guys in a situation or do you hate
Speaker 2: the fact that regular people are carrying weapons?
Speaker 1: Listen, I firmly believe that everyone should have the right
Speaker 1: to do it obviously, you know, and protect yourself and
Speaker 1: your family and all that. But I think the level
Speaker 1: of training that needs to be done has to be
Speaker 1: ramped up, because you know you're talking about you. You
Speaker 1: can be twenty one years old and get a permit
Speaker 1: and go to a training session and take a couple
Speaker 1: of shots at a paper target and get a permit
Speaker 1: and have a gun. I've had conversations with people of
Speaker 1: do you understand what goes with that permit? Yeah, it
Speaker 1: gets carrie gun. No, you could potentially kill someone. I
Speaker 1: don't want that. No, that's part of it, you know.
Speaker 1: And they don't. They think it's kind of cool that
Speaker 1: they can have a gun and carry it and protect themselves,
Speaker 1: but don't understand what can happen, you know, and what
Speaker 1: could very easily happen going down the line. And when
Speaker 1: I start having conversations with people like that, they freak
Speaker 1: out of wait, I didn't sign up for that. I
Speaker 1: don't want to kill anyone, okay, but you may have to,
Speaker 1: you know, And that parallel of yeah, that's reality, you know,
Speaker 1: it kind of hits people hard sometimes.
Speaker 2: Is it weird that people like I would just assume
Speaker 2: if you're getting a gun, that's what you're getting it for, Like,
Speaker 2: what else are you using it for? To scare somebody?
Speaker 2: Because that's definitely a terrible idea.
Speaker 1: It's a horrible idea. And that's where you get into,
Speaker 1: you know, the mindsets of people of you know, is
Speaker 1: it fashionable, it's cool I have when listen, that's a
Speaker 1: mindset unfortunately in this world today. Yeah, it's cool to
Speaker 1: have a gun, you know, but they're not taking that
Speaker 1: extra step of the responsibility of it and the ramifications
Speaker 1: of that responsibility. If you happen to screw up, just
Speaker 1: because you have a permit doesn't mean you can't be
Speaker 1: wrong and you can't go to jail. And people think
Speaker 1: that is, well, well, it's not an illegal gun, yeah,
Speaker 1: but your actions can be. And that's what people lose
Speaker 1: sometimes when it comes to arming themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like in this case, I mean,
Speaker 2: she's now she got arrested for attempted murder, so I
Speaker 2: guess she actually took shots at the officers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's what I mean, you know, the misidentification
Speaker 1: of police officers who were yelling at her with a
Speaker 1: police with the police, whether they were in plain clothes,
Speaker 1: I don't know what they were dressed like, if they
Speaker 1: had their uniforms on, if they had a identifying markings
Speaker 1: on them. You know, I don't know at that point,
Speaker 1: but you know, that's part of the training of it,
Speaker 1: of taking that second to survey a situation and to
Speaker 1: you know, understand if they're a cop, you know, they
Speaker 1: control the scene, not you. They're they're in charge, and
Speaker 1: you're the one, the civilian with the guns. So I
Speaker 1: think the communications broke down and trusting who was in
Speaker 1: her backyard is part of the problem as well, and that,
Speaker 1: like I said, is a worst case scenario that's nightmare
Speaker 1: for both parties, for both parties to be involved in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that could have turned ugly, right, Yeah, Well,
Speaker 2: I saw that she had just had a hysterectomy recently,
Speaker 2: and she had been treating being treated for cancer. So
Speaker 2: do you think there was I don't know. I'm just
Speaker 2: trying to think of all possible situations. What that her
Speaker 2: ovaries got taken out and she went nuts. Well no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying about the hysterectomy. But do you think
Speaker 2: because of the combination of having treatment for cancer and
Speaker 2: having the surgery there was some type of brain fog
Speaker 2: that could have affected her decision making? I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't really, I don't know. I'm asking you as a
Speaker 2: medical person, if that's a possibility, I mean she had
Speaker 2: the surgery over a month ago, I would say I
Speaker 2: would say no, Like what Tom just said with the
Speaker 2: with the officers potentially wearing street clothes, I mean, think
Speaker 2: about that, Like if I'm just thinking about looking at
Speaker 2: my own backyard, if there's a bunch of guys wearing
Speaker 2: normal clothes carrying guns in my yard, I'm gonna be like,
Speaker 2: on hi alert, Are you gonna do that at them?
Speaker 3: Well, I don't have a gun.
Speaker 2: But if I but if finds it for reasons like this,
Speaker 2: because I don't think I would make the right decision
Speaker 2: in that time, but but for real, like that would
Speaker 2: I would be on high alert. I definitely would call
Speaker 2: nine on one and like, but but there's people on
Speaker 2: my street that might have a gun that might do
Speaker 2: something you don't understand.
Speaker 3: Like I say that that would freak her out.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's also possible she misfired because most
Speaker 2: times people have such horrible trigger discipline when they're holding
Speaker 2: a gun, And I feel like that's an incredible possibility
Speaker 2: that she was scared she was holding it and slipped.
Speaker 1: Sure that that goes with what I said before with training,
Speaker 1: and it shouldn't be You shouldn't be one time like
Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna go get trained because I'm getting
Speaker 1: my permit. It should be a two, three times a year,
Speaker 1: you know, training session that you should be on because
Speaker 1: those scenario can happen, maybe not to that extreme, but
Speaker 1: being on the street and Nicole, you bring up a
Speaker 1: great point with plain clothes officers and I worked in there.
Speaker 1: You know, I was in an anti crime union playing
Speaker 1: clothes and got surrounded by you know, three radio cars,
Speaker 1: you know NYPD cars thinking we were a robbery team.
Speaker 1: You know that happens, and it's scary, uh, not to
Speaker 1: mention just being a civilian and seeing people walking through
Speaker 1: your backyard. But you came up with a great point too,
Speaker 1: you know, run inside, locked the door, called nine one one, Hey,
Speaker 1: there's people in my backyard saying they're cops, and that
Speaker 1: nine one one operator is going, yes they are. They're
Speaker 1: looking for a B and C. So that's another avenue
Speaker 1: she could have went down. But the stress of it,
Speaker 1: you know, clouds people's judgments sometimes and reaction, so I
Speaker 1: think that had something to do with it as well.
Speaker 2: Do you also see this little interesting tidbit that she
Speaker 2: was just gonna say this with this serial killer Samuel Little.
Speaker 2: She she I think she owns his or not owns his,
Speaker 2: but I think she acquired his career reins after he
Speaker 2: died in twenty twenty. But she had been making this
Speaker 2: documentary about Samuel Little. And the way these articles are
Speaker 2: reading is that it was supposed to highlight, you know,
Speaker 2: the victims and be to their benefit. But then this
Speaker 2: woman ended up developing this really close friendship with him,
Speaker 2: to the point where he put her as his next
Speaker 2: of kin on his prison paperwork. It's very bizarre, but
Speaker 2: I feel like I've never heard of this guy, and
Speaker 2: apparently he's like one of the most prolific serial killers
Speaker 2: in the United States.
Speaker 3: Yeah, have you heard of him?
Speaker 1: No? No? What were the circumstances of his case? Then?
Speaker 1: Might be? I don't know his name, but the case.
Speaker 2: I believe he is convicted of killing at least eight
Speaker 2: women in between nineteen seventy and I think they're early
Speaker 2: two thousands. But then it came out later that he
Speaker 2: admitted to killing up to ninety three victims.
Speaker 3: But the FABI.
Speaker 2: Confirm the FBI confirmed fifty of the ninety three. Oh
Speaker 2: my god.
Speaker 3: So it's it's a lot of people.
Speaker 2: I just it's just kind of like, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: why is this the first time I'm hearing about this?
Speaker 1: I always really fall in love with you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, definitely.
Speaker 2: I also thought it was kind of strange that, you know,
Speaker 2: she's getting charged with attempted murder I'm assuming of police officers,
Speaker 2: and she got released on bond that night. I would
Speaker 2: just think for that level of a charge that you
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1: Well, welcome to the twenty twenty exactly.
Speaker 3: I could tell you ten cases this week of that happening. Really,
Speaker 3: and her husband coach.
Speaker 1: That's the bad part. That doesn't even surprise me anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just like whatever, like that's that's totally normal now,
Speaker 2: all right. So here's a case that the next case
Speaker 2: shouldn't surprise you either, because I feel like we talk
Speaker 2: about it at least once a month on this podcast.
Speaker 2: We don't even cover every story. But no, So this
Speaker 2: happened in Alabama. This couple had brought their four year
Speaker 2: old to the hospital after he accidentally shot himself with
Speaker 2: a weapon in the house.
Speaker 3: So then police go to search the home.
Speaker 2: Not only do they find all these unsecured weapons, but
Speaker 2: they come across at least thirty snakes, some alive, some dead,
Speaker 2: covered in maggots, boxes of mice, and a crocodile in them.
Speaker 2: So this is something we talk about on this show
Speaker 2: all the time, is like, what is it like to
Speaker 2: just be a cop and walk into the house not
Speaker 2: knowing what to expect because you probably just live in
Speaker 2: a normal house that has just like furniture and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, and then you just go into these abnormal
Speaker 2: living situations.
Speaker 1: Oh that was you know, any apartment that you would
Speaker 1: go into in the city held you breath because anything
Speaker 1: could happen. You know. I read this article and I
Speaker 1: remembered we did. We took a case down in the
Speaker 1: Bronx in narcotics, so, you know, a couple of different streets,
Speaker 1: a bunch of people arrested with this one crew, and
Speaker 1: one of them had an alligator in the bethtub when
Speaker 1: we did the warrant, you know, and we're all on
Speaker 1: the street and we hearing, you know, what's going on,
Speaker 1: and you're thinking it's a joke, and it wasn't. In
Speaker 1: the Bronx an alligator in the bethtub, you know, but
Speaker 1: other situations. I mean walking in and just seeing weird stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, shrines of a lot of different things that
Speaker 1: would be in certain rooms and all that. But you
Speaker 1: have to be you know that. That's one of the
Speaker 1: things about working in a big city, especially a city
Speaker 1: like New York where anything is possible. You have to
Speaker 1: be ready for every situation or every weird thing that
Speaker 1: could happen walking into an apartment.
Speaker 2: So Gabe's friends with an older, retired fd M I guy,
Speaker 2: and he showed me a picture once and it's just
Speaker 2: an apartment building, right, and Gabe's just like just zoom
Speaker 2: in on the window, and there's a freaking tiger, like
Speaker 2: a tiger you would see at the zoo in an
Speaker 2: apartment in New York City. Just like it's so outrageous
Speaker 2: to think that you guys would ever encounter something like that.
Speaker 3: It's just so wild.
Speaker 1: Yep, and a lot of us, you know, like I
Speaker 1: just said, I'll say it calmly, because it's like it's
Speaker 1: New York. There's nothing surprising anymore. And you get to
Speaker 1: a point in your career that nothing surprises you. Yea
Speaker 1: very rarely would you go, oh my god, that happened. No,
Speaker 1: it's you would just like kind of shrug it, like yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. So you gotta be ready.
Speaker 3: What do you do in that case?
Speaker 2: You have to call animal control to secure it before
Speaker 2: further pursuing the scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first thing is to close the door and
Speaker 1: get out.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, like, do any of your guys
Speaker 2: like really freak out and just say, like, you know,
Speaker 2: like some I know some guys that just have irrational
Speaker 2: fears of animals, Like one of our friends is like
Speaker 2: scared a death of sharks.
Speaker 3: Like you really could just like.
Speaker 2: Avoid that, Like I'm not going in there, no way,
Speaker 2: you know, like a spider thing or whatever.
Speaker 3: Like that's where I draw the line. I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it could be anything. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: numerous cops are scattered dogs, you know, and that creates
Speaker 1: a problem when that happens. You know, So the fear
Speaker 1: of something, you know, the first thing is just get out.
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's an alligator or a tiger, or
Speaker 1: you know, an eagle flying around an apartment, you know,
Speaker 1: all weird stuff like that that.
Speaker 3: Sounds a little specifics.
Speaker 1: Is just get out, close the door, and call like
Speaker 1: animal control or you know there's times that you look
Speaker 1: around at each other and be like, who do we call?
Speaker 1: Like is there a tiger removal department in New York City?
Speaker 1: But you know, an animal control of some sort would
Speaker 1: come and take care of it.
Speaker 2: So the main part of this story, which should be
Speaker 2: the most shocking, which isn't, is that a kid shot
Speaker 2: himself with with a gun that was laying around. Is
Speaker 2: that something that you encountered through your career? Do you
Speaker 2: think it's getting worse because I feel like I hear
Speaker 2: it a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, because there's there's so many guns out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are, whether they legal or not. The
Speaker 1: biggest thing about having a weapon in your house is
Speaker 1: where it's stored and where it's locked up and who
Speaker 1: has access to it. And a lot of people disregard
Speaker 1: that and they just leave it out and kids end
Speaker 1: up killing themselves the majority of the time are shooting
Speaker 1: a friend because they think it's a toy, you know,
Speaker 1: or something like that. And that is is usually the
Speaker 1: case with this and those are the I mean, you
Speaker 1: can't get more heartbreaking than that scenario, you know, either
Speaker 1: one of those that I laid out and that does happen,
Speaker 1: and it goes back to the parents' responsibility. You know,
Speaker 1: the kid's a kid, you know, the parents responsibility or
Speaker 1: lack of responsibility when having these weapons in a house
Speaker 1: is tragic sometimes.
Speaker 2: And this is kind of similar to our next story
Speaker 2: in a way that parents having their child either seriously
Speaker 2: injured or hurt and it's kind of their fault they
Speaker 2: put the danger into the house. Like, I don't even
Speaker 2: know how you live with yourself after something like that.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, that decision, that perfect point, Nicole, that that
Speaker 1: scenario should be played out before you bring a weapon
Speaker 1: in the house. You know, play out that what if
Speaker 1: what if he gets it? What if something goes wrong?
Speaker 1: You know, and people don't. They just take it for
Speaker 1: granted that, oh it'll be all right. You know, he's
Speaker 1: not going to get it, or I hit it, you know,
Speaker 1: I hit in the spot. Listen, we were all kids.
Speaker 1: We find anything. Yeah, yeah, they ask us around Christmas
Speaker 1: time we find anything, you know, if they if they
Speaker 1: have a thought that that's in the house. Kids can
Speaker 1: find anything and get into anything. So unless it is
Speaker 1: a bolted down, you know, secure combination lock box, they're
Speaker 1: gonna find it.
Speaker 2: You know, I think my kids are broken. I say
Speaker 2: this at Christmas time. I keep their presence like unwrapped
Speaker 2: in my office, just like hidden under a couch or something,
Speaker 2: and they just don't even find it.
Speaker 3: I'm so disappointed.
Speaker 2: Never I'm just like, I had that shit unwrapped, looked
Speaker 2: at it, re wrapped it, put it back in my
Speaker 2: mom's closet. Well, last year we hit it behind the
Speaker 2: curtain for the window. They don't but all the time,
Speaker 2: or on the back porch. We'll just put it back there.
Speaker 2: They take the trash out all the time, walk right
Speaker 2: by the box, don't even notice it.
Speaker 3: You're just like, how is this? What kind of kids
Speaker 3: are you?
Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by The Grossroom. Guys,
Speaker 2: the Grossroom is going on sale. It only goes on
Speaker 2: sale a couple of times a year, and I'm so excited.
Speaker 3: For you to join if you're not already a member.
Speaker 2: We have some really awesome things coming up in this episode.
Speaker 2: We're talking about that case in Neckrofe, So I thought
Speaker 2: that this would be a perfect time to really dive
Speaker 2: deep into this subject into the Gross Room because it
Speaker 2: is a pretty interesting subject. We do have a couple
Speaker 2: cases in their already real life cases, so it is
Speaker 2: super disturbing, but we have lots of disturbing things. Also,
Speaker 2: Easter is coming up this weekend, and we have a
Speaker 2: post from last year a high profile death dissection talking
Speaker 2: about the crucifixion and if it was medically possible to happen,
Speaker 2: and we look at different forensics and proof of that happening.
Speaker 2: So it's pretty interesting high profile death dissection.
Speaker 3: So check that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, head over to the gross room dot com now
Speaker 2: to sign up for twenty dollars for one year of gross.
Speaker 2: All right, so talk about this with the parents though,
Speaker 2: because this next case, so this case and then the
Speaker 2: next one we're talking about is not having a gun,
Speaker 2: but having a dog that's known for eating children. So well,
Speaker 2: we talk about this a lot with dogs attacking children,
Speaker 2: especially with pit bulls, which is some of the greatest
Speaker 2: criticism I guess we face is criticizing people for having
Speaker 2: these dogs in the house with small children. But again,
Speaker 2: this is a case of a seven month old baby
Speaker 2: that was mauled to death by the family dog. They
Speaker 2: had three pitbulls at the house, and when animal control
Speaker 2: got there, they didn't know exactly which dog did it
Speaker 2: at first, and they determine which dog did it now
Speaker 2: that dog has to get euthanized, which isn't fair to
Speaker 2: the baby that lost its life, isn't fair to the
Speaker 2: dog that was just being an animal.
Speaker 3: And then the people that own the dog don't get
Speaker 3: in the trouble. That's the weirdest part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean dogs. You know, when it comes to that,
Speaker 1: you kind of different topics, differ different items, but sort
Speaker 1: of the same thing. You know, you have a possible
Speaker 1: deadly weapon, which is a dog right near your children,
Speaker 1: and they can turn in a mint. They're animals, you know,
Speaker 1: they can be trained. Oh, I love them, they sleep
Speaker 1: with me, They're all this. But there's some animals that
Speaker 1: just have this trigger and they just go off and
Speaker 1: you can't map it out, you can't schedule it, you
Speaker 1: can't see it coming, and it just happens. You know.
Speaker 1: Moreover with this, when you have a history of these dogs,
Speaker 1: you know, creating a problem is even more of an alert,
Speaker 1: you know, to go out of maybe not have them
Speaker 1: around the kids.
Speaker 2: So you're saying that sometimes there's officers that would be
Speaker 2: scared of dogs. I personally would be too. As far
Speaker 2: as if I'm going over a friend's house that I
Speaker 2: know that the dog's well taken care of, and I
Speaker 2: know what kind of environment they live in. I would
Speaker 2: be like way more chill about it. But just going
Speaker 2: into a stranger's house where you don't know how they're
Speaker 2: training this dog or what's happening, like what what are
Speaker 2: your officers do in that situation? I mean, I guess
Speaker 2: they have a gun on them, so that's always helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you go first, that's you, that's in the hallway.
Speaker 1: All right, go ahead, you go. I'll stay out here.
Speaker 1: It's usually how it happens. But sometimes you don't know
Speaker 1: that they are and they'll come out of a bedroom,
Speaker 1: or they'll come at you know, out of another closet,
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. So sometimes you're caught off guard
Speaker 1: with with seeing them. When we would do search warrants,
Speaker 1: you really didn't know. So we had a lieutenant that
Speaker 1: would always do a search warrant with treats and dog
Speaker 1: food in his pocket. We had it every search warrant
Speaker 1: we did, just in case there was a dog there.
Speaker 1: He throw them a bone and throw them a treat,
Speaker 1: throw food in another room, whatever it was. Because listen,
Speaker 1: no one, especially pitbulls, you do not want to get
Speaker 1: bit by that and you don't want to listen. No
Speaker 1: one wants to fire their weapon, whether it's at a
Speaker 1: person or a dog, you don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: So you just do everything you can to avoid that situation.
Speaker 1: But sometimes it's unavoidable, and you know it's going to
Speaker 1: be them, not you, because I've seen guys bit by
Speaker 1: dogs and it is not cool, it's not pretty, it's
Speaker 1: painful as hell, and you don't want to go through that.
Speaker 2: And what happens when you guys like obviously we talk
Speaker 2: about such horrible stories on here, we have another one
Speaker 2: coming up after this story of just officers seeing like
Speaker 2: terrible shit. So they're gonna show up to this house.
Speaker 2: And let's say, I mean most of these guys. I
Speaker 2: know that Gabe has this issue, you know, when he
Speaker 2: goes to fires that involve children, because it's like he
Speaker 2: has kids.
Speaker 3: That age too.
Speaker 2: And you can't help but say, it's a similar situation
Speaker 2: because you know kids that age right, And so if
Speaker 2: you walk into a scene like that and you see
Speaker 2: a baby that is the victim of being killed by
Speaker 2: a pit bull, which could be so gruesome, how do
Speaker 2: you deal with that with the officers? Do they have
Speaker 2: any kind of assistance for them when they get back.
Speaker 2: Do they have to go to some kind of therapy
Speaker 2: or is that's something they just take home with them.
Speaker 1: Well, you would hope if it. Listen, people deal with
Speaker 1: stresses and situations like that differently. Some guys and women
Speaker 1: can handle it and just kind of put it in
Speaker 1: the back of their head of part of the job
Speaker 1: another day. But it adds up, and that's where it's not.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the mental health issues of police
Speaker 1: officers and talking to people, it's not one event. It's
Speaker 1: always more and more and adding up. And that's when
Speaker 1: you have to know and realize when it's time to
Speaker 1: talk to someone unofficially, officially, whatever it might be. But
Speaker 1: things in police departments and police officers boil to a
Speaker 1: point that they can't take it anymore, that's when bad
Speaker 1: things start to happen. That's when alcoholism starts, and suicide starts,
Speaker 1: and domestic issues start. You know, when you get to
Speaker 1: these events just boiling over because you didn't realize when
Speaker 1: it was time to go talk to someone.
Speaker 3: So you started what year did you start being a cop?
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety So you've seen a huge change in that,
Speaker 2: like a shift in the thinking of that, because we've
Speaker 2: talked about that before that you used to have to
Speaker 2: put on almost a front like nothing bothered you guys,
Speaker 2: And now it's how do you feel about that being
Speaker 2: more open? You think that, I mean, obviously that should
Speaker 2: be better for most people.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, it's about time. I mean, you know, we
Speaker 1: were we were of the age which was wrong, but
Speaker 1: it was the time. It was of hey, you're a cop,
Speaker 1: deal with it, you know, and that was it. It's
Speaker 1: your job, you know. We used to hear that all
Speaker 1: the time. And the problem at the time was the
Speaker 1: ramifications of it. If you went to someone said I
Speaker 1: have a problem, I have a mental health issue, whatever
Speaker 1: it might be. Your gun was taken, your shield was taken.
Speaker 1: You'll put on a midnight shift watching a parking lot.
Speaker 1: I mean that's what it was. You weren't a cop anymore.
Speaker 1: You weren't technically, but you weren't. And that's what worry
Speaker 1: people in the police department of I don't want, you know,
Speaker 1: that to happen to me. I love being a cop.
Speaker 1: Just because I saw something one day, I'll just keep
Speaker 1: it to myself. But like I said, we have so
Speaker 1: many traumatic events that happen in just the course of
Speaker 1: a day, it's going to get to a point where
Speaker 1: you just can't take it anymore, and sometimes that's too late.
Speaker 1: So I openly I'm thrilled that there's more mental health
Speaker 1: issu you know, avenues out there that they can seek
Speaker 1: help and talk to someone in different organizations that are
Speaker 1: out there now other than when I was on, and
Speaker 1: I just hope that they take advantage of it and
Speaker 1: get that help, because sometimes all it takes is one
Speaker 1: conversation and one this is what I went through. Hey
Speaker 1: do this, call me back next week, and you know,
Speaker 1: things can feel better. And you know, we do talk
Speaker 1: about it on our show all the time, of the
Speaker 1: organizations that we're involved in outreaching to departments to make
Speaker 1: sure that everyone's okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really happy to hear that because a lot
Speaker 2: of times people that work in this field don't have
Speaker 2: someone to go home to and talk to about it,
Speaker 2: and sometimes that's not even enough. So it is nice
Speaker 2: to hear that at least they're offering those resources to
Speaker 2: people now.
Speaker 3: So this next story that.
Speaker 2: We have involves not exactly a police officer walking in
Speaker 2: with his own eyes or her own eyes and seeing
Speaker 2: something horrific. But the talk of we talk about this
Speaker 2: of looking over surveillance films, or sometimes we hear about
Speaker 2: these horrible child pornography cases where police have to look
Speaker 2: through people's phones and see this shit, which is disturbing. So, Maria,
Speaker 2: do you want to talk about this next case? Yeah,
Speaker 2: So police are contacted when the conductor of this R
Speaker 2: train in New York City found this thirty seven year
Speaker 2: old man who was dead. So of course they're like,
Speaker 2: we gotta look through all the security footage and see
Speaker 2: exactly what happened. So they figured out that he got
Speaker 2: on the train four hours before they found him. At
Speaker 2: some point during this he passed away, and then after
Speaker 2: he was dead, somebody not only robbed him, but then
Speaker 2: another person sexually assaulted his dead body. And so now
Speaker 2: they have to try to find these two separate people
Speaker 2: that went after a corpse on the train.
Speaker 3: What's happening in New York right now?
Speaker 2: Tom, Like, seriously, you couldn't put that as a script
Speaker 2: in a movie.
Speaker 1: I really it's happening. But listen, there's wing nuts out there.
Speaker 1: It's just wild, weird people out there that have no guardrails,
Speaker 1: no bounds, no mental acuity, no, just this is what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. That's it.
Speaker 2: Is it about the subway. It's the subway that's like
Speaker 2: it tracks, it seems.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the New York City subway is is just
Speaker 1: a horror movie. Why you know, it's it's escaped from
Speaker 1: New York. It's a horror movie. And that's what it is.
Speaker 1: And the most unfortunate part of what I just said,
Speaker 1: ninety percent of people that are in the subway are
Speaker 1: a good, hard working people just trying to get to work.
Speaker 1: But you're surrounded by this just dwellers of whatever they are,
Speaker 1: and you just explained two of them. The robbery part,
Speaker 1: I get that's happened many times, either people sleeping or
Speaker 1: you know, dead. I haven't heard of that often. But
Speaker 1: people sleeping getting robbed was endless. That happened all the time.
Speaker 1: That was a I mean, unless you were a half
Speaker 1: I mean out of your mind. You didn't fall asleep,
Speaker 1: you didn't close your eyesen to win. That was a rule,
Speaker 1: you know, but people did because of working later or
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. But robberies that happened with people
Speaker 1: sleeping was an ongoing thing.
Speaker 2: She's probably so skewed out because she probably thought the
Speaker 2: dude was sleeping and like in felt his pockets and stuff.
Speaker 2: And now she's like, oh my god, he was dead.
Speaker 2: I touched a dead person. It's a wild assumption that
Speaker 2: that person even cares if the person was dead or alive.
Speaker 2: If they're gonna just like pickpocket somebody on the train. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's no level compared to putting this other guy took
Speaker 2: his body out of the seat and put him on
Speaker 2: the floor and had sex with him.
Speaker 3: Like, what is happened?
Speaker 2: I really can't imagine being the person reviewing this security footage.
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, we already have to figure out if
Speaker 2: this person died, and now you are like, okay, you
Speaker 2: got robbed. That's horrible, And then you see the worst
Speaker 2: thing you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 1: I'm putting myself in the detective's shoes for a minute
Speaker 1: of wait a minute, what rewind? Hold on? You know,
Speaker 1: go back as far as you can, and then seeing
Speaker 1: that and you know, again, are you shocked? No? You
Speaker 1: probably you're probably more laughing than shot because of just
Speaker 1: what you're witnessing. But when you go back and look
Speaker 1: at at video surveillances, there's so much other stuff you see.
Speaker 1: I mean, you see other crimes being committed, which is
Speaker 1: always interesting. You're focusing on one thing and then across
Speaker 1: the street you see like a shooting, like, oh wait
Speaker 1: a minute, there, that happened too. So when it comes
Speaker 1: to just videos, anything's possible. But that story in the
Speaker 1: New York City subway system, it's just another story.
Speaker 3: So would they come.
Speaker 2: Let I just want to know the procedure, just because
Speaker 2: I'm interested though. So somebody will called nine one one
Speaker 2: and say they found a dead body, and I know
Speaker 2: they'll send like EMS, even though the guy's clearly dead
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. So they'll send someone like you
Speaker 2: as a detective and say, here's the surveillance footage, and
Speaker 2: do you actually have to go to the subway and
Speaker 2: look at it or they give you some kind of
Speaker 2: tape that you could view in your office.
Speaker 1: It depends on the system. Uh, And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: They'll call nine one one EMS and the patrol guys
Speaker 1: will show up. They'll establish that he's dead. EMS will
Speaker 1: just say he's dead. You need the corner to come
Speaker 1: to officially say he's dead, but EMS can can kind
Speaker 1: of let you know. Then you would start because it's
Speaker 1: a unusual circumstance, So you would start somewhat making a
Speaker 1: crime scene and roping some things off some a part
Speaker 1: of the platform, the car obviously that he was found in.
Speaker 1: And then the surveillance part of it is going to
Speaker 1: be up to the system that you have. Is it
Speaker 1: can it be transferred to a CD or DVD? You
Speaker 1: know that you could bring it with you to look at.
Speaker 1: Do you have to watch it in their system? All that,
Speaker 1: But you would have a starting point you kind of
Speaker 1: work backwards, Okay, there he is dead, and then you
Speaker 1: would just kind of rewind it to a point of
Speaker 1: maybe seeing him come on. But then you go even
Speaker 1: further than that nicole of where did he start walking from?
Speaker 1: Did anyone follow him? You know, So you can't just say,
Speaker 1: all right, he's dead. There's a reason for it. And
Speaker 1: until the autopsy's done, like you know, and is a
Speaker 1: confirmed cause of death, you have to assume there's a
Speaker 1: crime committee. So you're going to keep backing up that
Speaker 1: video and even get additional videos from the street of
Speaker 1: like I said, did he have a problem with anyone
Speaker 1: on the street? Did anyone follow him into the car?
Speaker 1: Was any of that happening? So there's a lot to
Speaker 1: do when it comes to piecing surveillance videos together from
Speaker 1: a starting point to the end of it.
Speaker 2: So this guy is They found out that the victims
Speaker 2: thirty seven years old, and he was he's married and
Speaker 2: he has kids, but he had in a strange wife
Speaker 2: because apparently he was an alcoholic. But he was here
Speaker 2: from Mexico working and they know that he had orrhosis
Speaker 2: at least from being an alcoholic. They did the autopsy
Speaker 2: and they don't know exactly how he died right now,
Speaker 2: which to me means they didn't see anything grow with
Speaker 2: their naked eye that determined like, Okay, hey, he had
Speaker 2: a pulmonary embolism and drop dead, because I mean, if
Speaker 2: you have cirrhosis and you're in ED and stage liver disease,
Speaker 2: you're not like walking on a train and dying on
Speaker 2: the train. It just doesn't like make you drop dead
Speaker 2: like that kind of So they're trying to figure out
Speaker 2: what happened. And he has this history of alcohol abuse,
Speaker 2: so he could potentially be into drugs now or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're gonna say, but they're saying
Speaker 2: that they don't know. Obviously, they're going to document that
Speaker 2: there was post mortem sexual assault, which is terrible. But
Speaker 2: they'll also be able to get DNA from that, hopefully
Speaker 2: and find this guy because I don't they've showed a
Speaker 2: clearer picture of him, Like I feel like they kind
Speaker 2: of might know who he is, but I'm not sure
Speaker 2: as of right now that as of recording that they've
Speaker 2: found who it is.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think.
Speaker 2: So. It's just so freaking disturbing, you know, And you're right,
Speaker 2: nothing shocks you because I would have sworn the worst
Speaker 2: thing that could ever happen was the guy that lit
Speaker 2: the lady on fire who was alive a couple of
Speaker 2: months ago, And you're just it's just like weird that
Speaker 2: people are sitting around like how could I one up
Speaker 2: that or something?
Speaker 3: It's so nuts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, No, I was just gonna say, this kind
Speaker 2: of reminds me of this video we had in the
Speaker 2: Gross Room where this woman had got a detection alert
Speaker 2: in her backyard that somebody was there, and she was
Speaker 2: checking her ring footage and saw that a man went
Speaker 2: into her driveway and started using a cucumber to you know,
Speaker 2: in the grill of her car and was like bent
Speaker 2: over in front of it. And this is what she's
Speaker 2: watching like in her ring camera, and I'm just like,
Speaker 2: how many other horrific things like this are we just
Speaker 2: catching on camera when we're looking for something else?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I said. You know that happens a
Speaker 1: lot where you think it's one thing and then you
Speaker 1: start watching it and it's something completely different, you know.
Speaker 1: But there's so many stories that are out there, and
Speaker 1: the subways are hard. You know, it's going through a
Speaker 1: rough time. And this reminds me of you know, the
Speaker 1: seventies and the eighties where you could not go on
Speaker 1: the subway. You just didn't ride the subway because of
Speaker 1: what was going on down there. But you have you know,
Speaker 1: the mental health issue for people who are homeless or
Speaker 1: whoever it may be, is an issue in New York.
Speaker 1: And you know, you have people lit on fire, you
Speaker 1: got people getting pushed in front of trains that are
Speaker 1: just standing there. It's horrible, and every story is horrible,
Speaker 1: and like you said, the next one's going to be horrible,
Speaker 1: and one after that's going to be horrible, and you
Speaker 1: just hope it gets to a point where it stops
Speaker 1: or slows down or something, because, like I said before,
Speaker 1: ninety plus percent of the people in the subway or
Speaker 1: all good people you know, going to work, going out
Speaker 1: to eat, go to a show, you know, whatever it
Speaker 1: might be that have to encounter the stuff.
Speaker 2: So speaking of mental health, because that will bring us
Speaker 2: to our last story that we wanted to talk about
Speaker 2: with you today is this arson that happened at Governor
Speaker 2: Shapiro's mansion in the governor's mansion in Pennsylvania. And I
Speaker 2: guess the guy who got caught with this was dealing
Speaker 2: with some mental health issues as well. I don't understand
Speaker 2: how this person got access to the property so easily.
Speaker 1: First thing I said, I mean me being in the
Speaker 1: profession that I'm in or was in. That was the
Speaker 1: very first thing. Not that he lit a fire, not
Speaker 1: that the governor had to get out of there. Howd
Speaker 1: he get in exactly any scale offense with the security
Speaker 1: team there get into the house. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: and I have no answer for that, and that I have.
Speaker 2: A suspicion it's because the people that were watching it
Speaker 2: were on their phones, I'm sure of it. Like are
Speaker 2: there rules that if you I mean, I guess it's
Speaker 2: a private security probably, but are there because I swear ye,
Speaker 2: Like I drive around all the time, and sometimes I
Speaker 2: see cops pulled over at the side of the road
Speaker 2: for whatever they're doing, and they're like looking down in
Speaker 2: their lap at a phone, and I'm just like really like,
Speaker 2: it's and this is not just cops, this is everybody
Speaker 2: in the world. It's everybody's checked out, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who the security
Speaker 1: team was, whether it's the Jersey State Police, which are
Speaker 1: like in New York, the New York State Police have
Speaker 1: the security detail for the governor. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's the same thing in Pennsylvania. Uh, if they're involved
Speaker 1: ors it's a private company, but you know, you just
Speaker 1: they should have when you when you're dealing with protection
Speaker 1: of principles of that high level governors, the president, all
Speaker 1: of that, there's a zero failure mission. You can't fail.
Speaker 1: You can't not get something. You can't allow what happened
Speaker 1: to happen. You know, I don't care who it is,
Speaker 1: whether you like them or not, you can't have that
Speaker 1: occur because that breaks down the system of who you know,
Speaker 1: what other things are going on that people aren't being
Speaker 1: protected that need to be protected. Then it also what
Speaker 1: it does is you start the copycats. He got away
Speaker 1: with it. Let me try, you know, and someone might
Speaker 1: come through and actually succeed in what they wanted to do,
Speaker 1: and that's when you get into real big problems.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's it's weird because I was looking up
Speaker 2: I just was curious about the house, like what it
Speaker 2: looked like, and it's twenty nine thousand square feet, so
Speaker 2: that's it's huge. Twenty nine thousands, he said, twenty nine
Speaker 2: thousand square feet. I don't know if that was the
Speaker 2: whole property, because.
Speaker 3: It's a house in Seede.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 2: It does seem insane, but I don't know, because there's
Speaker 2: like a museum and shit in there, like people could
Speaker 2: go visit. There's tours, they have like artifacts on the
Speaker 2: first Florence of So I don't know, maybe it's the
Speaker 2: whole property whatever. But regardless, I was looking it up
Speaker 2: and it had the address and directions. It's just like
Speaker 2: very easy for someone to go there, so you would
Speaker 2: think that it was it was like hard to get
Speaker 2: into if if you're just telling people how to get there,
Speaker 2: it's very easily. I mean they even have things how
Speaker 2: to get here from this highway in this highway. They're
Speaker 2: just like, hey, come over, tours, come look at this,
Speaker 2: Come look at that. It's just it's just like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, it's it's just nuts. But the so the guy.
Speaker 2: So this is something I wanted to ask you because
Speaker 2: as soon as I heard about this happening on the news,
Speaker 2: I was on X or Twitter or whatever, and and
Speaker 2: I'm seeing pictures of the guy who did it and
Speaker 2: his social media accounts and put and pit screenshots of
Speaker 2: his posts that he was making. And I didn't hear
Speaker 2: that guy's name for for a very long time on
Speaker 2: the news. So what do you feel about all of
Speaker 2: these sleuths, internet sluice like looking up all of this
Speaker 2: information and posting it, Like, how does that affect your
Speaker 2: investigation and stuff when people are like and stuff out
Speaker 2: there that you don't you don't want out there yet, Yeah.
Speaker 1: That becomes a big problem. And thankfully when I was
Speaker 1: doing all that, none of this was around, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's more, you know, this day and age with
Speaker 1: with private salutes, which listen, if I know a few
Speaker 1: you know that that have access to things, because listen,
Speaker 1: they don't. They're not binded by the rules that we are,
Speaker 1: you know, they can have access to someone knock on
Speaker 1: the door, and these people who are telling them information, no,
Speaker 1: they're not talking to the police. So it's a different conversation. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the ability to just show up and walk around.
Speaker 1: We have our tours that we do and when we work,
Speaker 1: they don't.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And the access and the I guess talent, I'll give
Speaker 1: it to them. The talent that they have investigating these
Speaker 1: things are incredible. Of what they think of and how
Speaker 1: they access this information is why. But you know, one
Speaker 1: of the conversations I had with one young woman who
Speaker 1: does it is see she had a thing that if
Speaker 1: she found anything, she'd be in touch with the police.
Speaker 1: And I think that's important, you know, go out and
Speaker 1: check out anything, because here I've said this on so
Speaker 1: many shows that the police can't be everywhere, but the
Speaker 1: public can. And if you have someone that's all into
Speaker 1: it and is doing some digging and find some good stuf,
Speaker 1: do it. I don't care who you are. If I
Speaker 1: get to lock someone up in some someone else help, great,
Speaker 1: that's awesome.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So that's where I think detectives can play a role
Speaker 1: with some of these you know, salutes that are going
Speaker 1: out there and have kind of that relationship with them.
Speaker 1: When you get into you get into a murky waters
Speaker 1: when it's a ongoing case. So what I mean by
Speaker 1: that is, let's say serial killer, or someone's missing or or.
Speaker 2: Like Brian Koberger or something right, and you get that
Speaker 2: up in a second.
Speaker 1: And you get information that might be contradicting you know
Speaker 1: what you're looking at. That's when it gets a little nutty.
Speaker 1: And that's when detectives and police departments get annoyed because
Speaker 1: especially listen, there's things with investigations, especially when it comes
Speaker 1: to you know we just brought up before, like Night
Speaker 1: Soccer or Scott Peterson. There's so many times that the
Speaker 1: police have information but will never put it out there
Speaker 1: because it's going to impact that person's actions. Them getting
Speaker 1: notified that they are a subject of the investigation or
Speaker 1: anything like that, that's when it gets really bad because
Speaker 1: that's going to make a dramatic impact on the investigation,
Speaker 1: and that's what you never want as a detective.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, like you're saying, the really positive example
Speaker 2: of this we've seen is like Michelle McNamara working with
Speaker 2: the police to help solve the Golden State killer case.
Speaker 2: But then we have the negative side of it with Coburger,
Speaker 2: for example, why that TikToker had been accusing a professor
Speaker 2: of killing the four kids, and now that person is
Speaker 2: going after the TikToker because obviously we know that did
Speaker 2: not happen at this point, where that professor is not
Speaker 2: the leading suspect at this time, and you're essentially ruining
Speaker 2: that person's life with allegations like that. So people are
Speaker 2: really reckless with the information they post, sometimes.
Speaker 1: No doubt, and they lose the fact that you're not
Speaker 1: you're not in the police department. You know, you're not
Speaker 1: part of this. You're on your own and the information
Speaker 1: you put out there is going to come back to you,
Speaker 1: you know. So listen, you want to post stuff, you
Speaker 1: damn well better be right and you know, get either
Speaker 1: authorization or corroboration of it or whatever. But you know
Speaker 1: it's your responsibility if you're going to go out there
Speaker 1: saying stuff and pinpointing people's names and what they did.
Speaker 1: That is so dangerous on every level.
Speaker 2: That's been agree I think it drives people nuts when
Speaker 2: they because I know for me, like especially when the
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger thing happened, it's like it happened right before Thanksgiving, right,
Speaker 2: and we didn't find out until New Year's Eve. Around
Speaker 2: New Year's Eve time, all that time passed and then
Speaker 2: people are just like, what's going on?
Speaker 3: We need to know?
Speaker 2: The public wants to hear, like and I don't even
Speaker 2: live around there, so it doesn't affect me at all,
Speaker 2: but I just want to know because I'm curious, you know,
Speaker 2: cause you're nosy, because I'm nosy. But like people start
Speaker 2: getting Nancy because they think that the police department is
Speaker 2: not doing a good job when they were the whole time.
Speaker 2: They just were like keeping their mouths up like you
Speaker 2: were saying, Tom, like the guy was on the loose
Speaker 2: still and they were trying to get him. But that's
Speaker 2: what makes people start, Like I mean, there were just
Speaker 2: like RANDO influencers just showing up in Moscow, Idaho, and like,
Speaker 2: I mean, Nancy was posted up on the folding table
Speaker 2: in front of the house for like a week. So yeah,
Speaker 2: but at least she she does this as a living
Speaker 2: Like it's I'm just saying, like, just people, It's just
Speaker 2: crazy how like people are becoming Internet detectives like that, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Why why social media? Yeah you have these you know,
Speaker 1: you had a Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys when
Speaker 1: we were kids and it was a TV show. You
Speaker 1: didn't have this because you know a lot of people unfortunately.
Speaker 1: You know, some are into it and it's a it's
Speaker 1: a kind of passion they have or hobby or whatever,
Speaker 1: which is fine. But there's other people out there that
Speaker 1: want views and they want clicks, and they want this
Speaker 1: and that, and that's where it becomes a problem with
Speaker 1: showing up to scenes and talking to people maybe you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be talking to. You know, it's all about that
Speaker 1: that wow factor on social media, and that's when you
Speaker 1: know things can go wrong real quick. And investigations listen,
Speaker 1: the smallest detail kids spinning investigation on its head and
Speaker 1: either naked or ruin it in a blink of an eye.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that's true. Jeez.
Speaker 2: There's Internet is just like the best and worst thing ever.
Speaker 2: Say that every day.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: We want to know, like where could everybody reach you?
Speaker 2: Obviously the gold Shields Podcast. Do you have social media
Speaker 2: that you do that you want to show up?
Speaker 1: We just said yes, we have our YouTube channel which
Speaker 1: is YouTube dot com slash at gold Shields. All our
Speaker 1: shows are on there. Instagram, at the gold Shield Show,
Speaker 1: our website, Thegoldshield Show dot com, and every audio channel
Speaker 1: you can think of. We're on some that we don't
Speaker 1: even know we're on, which is always fun to get
Speaker 1: that email of hey you reached this amount. We're like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: well thank you, but it's just it's a great ride,
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for letting me do that,
Speaker 1: because that's what this is all about, just trying to
Speaker 1: entertain more and more people and get some some cool
Speaker 1: stories out to them. So that's all our contacts, and
Speaker 1: give us a shout, follow us, subscribe to all that
Speaker 1: good stuff, and.
Speaker 2: We'll forgive your Yankees hat on today's episode, because don't
Speaker 2: believe we'd never allow that.
Speaker 3: Well if if it was.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because when I came home from our dinner,
Speaker 2: I was telling Gabe about you, and I was just like, well, listen,
Speaker 2: like the good news is at least he's a Yankees
Speaker 2: fan and he's not a Mets fan. And then Gabe's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I saw his hat, Like he just noted. He just
Speaker 2: like like zones in on things like that. But yeah,
Speaker 2: as long as you're if it was a Mets hat,
Speaker 2: we might have had to have a conversation with you
Speaker 2: before we got on.
Speaker 1: But I don't think in my lifetime, I don't think
Speaker 1: I've ever wore a mat hat. So you don't have
Speaker 1: to worry about that.
Speaker 2: You have to come with you and your wife have
Speaker 2: to come to a game with us, because I saw
Speaker 2: that we're playing the Yankees a couple of times coming
Speaker 2: up this summer, so we should all get together and
Speaker 2: have like a night at the stadium.
Speaker 3: That can come up there too. Whatever you want to.
Speaker 1: Do, that's easy, let's set it up.
Speaker 2: All right, awesome, all right, cool, all right, guys, Well,
Speaker 2: thank you so much, Thank you so much time for
Speaker 2: coming on this show.
Speaker 3: This was such a fun conversation. Don't forget. This is
Speaker 3: the last day to enter for.
Speaker 2: The one million download giveaway, and we're going to announce
Speaker 2: the winners next week. Thank you for listening to Mother
Speaker 2: Knows Death. As a reminder, my training is as a
Speaker 2: pathologist's assistant. I have a master's level education and specialize
Speaker 2: in anatomy and pathology education. I am not a doctor,
Speaker 2: and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or
Speaker 2: alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show,
Speaker 2: my website and social media accounts are designed to educate
Speaker 2: and inform people based on my experience working in pathology,
Speaker 2: so they can make healthier decisions regarding their life and
Speaker 2: well being. Always remember that science is changing every day
Speaker 2: and the opinions expressed in this episode are based on
Speaker 2: my knowledge of those subjects at the time of publication.
Speaker 2: If you are having a medical price problem, have a
Speaker 2: medical question, or having a medical emergency, please contact your
Speaker 2: physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room.
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