1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: You lost your job at ABC News for offering an 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: assessment about Steven Miller, and you were gone within within 3 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: forty eight hours. And I have been really looking forward 4 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: to you talking to you about it, particularly with the 5 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: with the passage of of some time right out of 6 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: the out of the moment where I think you can 7 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: objectively analyze some some of this a little bit better. 8 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: Do you? 9 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: Do you remember exactly what you said about them? I mean, 10 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: not word for word, but I remember writing. I mean 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: I was a sound mind and body, so I certainly 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: remember writing it. And I remember that I thought before 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: I said that, I thought this is pretty hot, this 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: is this is tough. 15 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 3: But I looked at it before before I sent it, 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 3: and I thought that's a description. I knew people would 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 3: not like it within and without ABC News, but I thought, 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 3: I'm describing something, and I believe that was describing it 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: accurately and fairly. I do remember I said I called 20 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 3: him a world class hater, which he is. I'd been 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 3: thinking about it all day that day, something about the 22 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 3: manner in which his public persona was just bludgeoning the 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 3: body politic every day, almost with lies and kind of 24 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 3: spitting venom. 25 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: And it was it's let me ask Let me ask 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: this question, right. Would would there have been an objection 27 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: if you describe David Duke as a world class hater? 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 3: That's a great question. Probably I might have had a 29 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: minor reprimand I would not look my job, but I 30 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 3: might have had a reprimand. 31 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as a world class hater? 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: Do you think that that's a description, that there are 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: people that, for whatever reason, burn with a deep hatred 34 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:15,279 Speaker 1: that just objectively, those those human beings have have existed 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: over the over the course of history. 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: Sure. 37 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm as a reporter. I look at the 38 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: way Stephen Miller addresses the public, the way he fills 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 3: the airwaves with lies and with this intense almost almost 40 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: desire to to enrage and to humiliate. He almost spits 41 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 3: out his words. I mean, how would you describe that? 42 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 3: That's hatred? Hi Trump too, Morgan. 43 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: I think about your description and the consequence of it 44 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: through a very singular appraisal. There's only there's only one 45 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: person I think about, and in the moment that it happened, 46 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: it was a man named Abner Less. And Abner Less 47 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: was a German Jew who became an Israeli police captain 48 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: and he was the singular person who interrogated Adolf Eikman, 49 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: which he did for two hundred and seventy five hours, 50 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: and he never talked about it, lied to his bosses 51 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: about his family because he wanted the shot to interrogate 52 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: him and knew he was up for it and wouldn't 53 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: get it if his bosses in Israel knew that he 54 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: was a that he was in fact a survivor, you know, 55 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: and had lost lost his family. So however, however, he 56 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: obscured that he did. And he's asked about the experience 57 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one, so twenty years later, and he said, 58 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: do you have any takeaways from that? And he says, absolutely, 59 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: he gave me my full faith in demok receive because 60 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,119 Speaker 1: there are add off Iikmans everywhere. They're all around us. 61 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: But they're harmless and a democracy but they but they 62 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: but they turned deadly in an instant and a dictatorship. 63 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: And what what Stephen Miller is is a is a 64 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: little hikman. And he would have been understood as a 65 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: little iikeman contemporaneous to when that term was familiarized and 66 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: popularized in the in the nineteen sixties. And so if 67 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: you if you eradicate objectively right as a news organization 68 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: sen right, the ability to describe someone accurate, precisely, surgically, 69 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: then then what you do is remove at a foundational 70 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: level the keys to understanding someone like a reinhart Heidrich, 71 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: some one like a Joseph Goebels, and you really censor 72 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: his historically by removing from consideration the role that this 73 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: hatred had, any events that transpired when the personality disorder 74 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: came into contact with the men's political power. And so 75 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: if you can objectively look at, say Pope Francis, and 76 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: say that this is a person who advocated for love 77 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: in the world, and also appreciate that there are doctrinal 78 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 1: differences in a two thousand year old church if you're 79 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: covering it through that praism. But objectively, what did he 80 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: stand for? He stood for these values and are there 81 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: antithetical values to that? And I would argue that there are, 82 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: and are they represented right by vices? And among those 83 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,559 Speaker 1: vices are there such things as bigotry? Are there such 84 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: things as hatred? Are there such things as cruelty? And 85 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: there are all of those things, and they are really 86 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: the singular lessons of the twentieth century, and to watch 87 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: you lose a pristine journalism career for the precise description 88 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: of such things six months in to an autocratic travesty 89 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: was quite a jar and moment in all of it. 90 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: But the one thing that no one will ever be 91 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: able to say about you is that you lost your 92 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: integrity with so many others along the road. 93 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 4: Over these many years. So good for you, Yes, Steve, 94 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 4: thank you on many counts. First, you helped me. You 95 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 4: help me understand sort of why I did it. 96 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 3: I can tell you the feelings, but I think the 97 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 3: language was necessary to accurately describe what was in front 98 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 3: of me, and I the way you just put it 99 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: is really helpful to understand that we must use the 100 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: language of values in covering the world, because the world 101 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 3: is made up of that of right and wrong, of 102 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 3: love and hate. And if you can't, as a journalist 103 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: describe and perceive those values at work, good and evil, 104 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: then you can't. You're really doing your job. You're collecking 105 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 3: a paycheck, and it was a pretty good one, but 106 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 3: you are really doing your job. And then the other 107 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 3: I also thank you for the compliment. It's people sometimes 108 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: come up to me now and say, oh, thanks for 109 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 3: your courage. I'm like, well, I just got fired. I mean, 110 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 3: but I do understand sort of what they said. My wife, 111 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: my dear wife, Johanna, we are ten years married now, 112 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: it's way closer to twenty years together, but ten years married. 113 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: And she said the night we told the kids I 114 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 3: got three kids, she said, often when people get fired, 115 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 3: it's because of something shameful that they did. And Daddy 116 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 3: got fired for telling the truth, and which met a 117 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 3: great deal to me that she said that, and that 118 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 3: the kids heard it. And it's one of the reasons 119 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: that I am as upbeat. Look, I have a very 120 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 3: daunting personal challenge ahead of me. And got love some 121 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,599 Speaker 3: tips from you as how you would more experience in 122 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 3: these new media spaces which are exciting, which definitely are 123 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 3: the media of tomorrow, the news communities rather than news 124 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: networks corporate networks. But I'm I'm upbeat about it because 125 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: I don't think I did any thing wrong. And uh, 126 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: and as I said, I know, I'm not bitter about 127 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 3: it's their companies, their policies. Fair Enough, I am who 128 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: I am, and I remain that way, and uh, fair 129 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 3: forward that way and that's that's what I'm gonna do. 130 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 5: I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I invite you 131 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 5: to join this community, where I promise to be honest, blunt, 132 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 5: and direct about what is happening in this country. America 133 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 5: is in crisis. Follow and subscribe to this channel and 134 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 5: on substack. Thank you.