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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Reuter's IPSOS poll showing Trump has

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Speaker 1: hit a new low with an approval of thirty six percent.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. The

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Speaker 1: Majority Reports own Sam Cedar stops by to talk the

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Speaker 1: unprecedented corruption in the Trump administration. Then we'll talk to

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Speaker 1: the levers David Sarota about his amazing new reporting on

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Speaker 1: the unitary executive theory and it's threat to our democracy.

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Speaker 1: But first the news.

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Speaker 2: Mai.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to read you a headline. I need you

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Speaker 3: to tell me if it's good or bad. I just

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Speaker 3: can't decide. I'm a fed center here today. The Treasury

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Speaker 3: just declared the US and solve and the media mist

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Speaker 3: it seems bad.

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Speaker 1: Again. I am not an economist, but it seems not good.

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Speaker 1: There is a conclusion drawn from the Treasury Department's own

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Speaker 1: consolidated finance statements for the fiscal year of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: They were released last week. Basically six h six trillion

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Speaker 1: dollars in total assets against forty seven point seventy eight

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Speaker 1: trillion in total liabilities. By the way, this forty seven trillion,

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Speaker 1: really almost forty eight trillion doesn't include the unfunded obligations

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Speaker 1: of Social Security insurance problems like Social Security and Medicare.

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Speaker 1: They're in a different off balance sheet statement. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk this through. I think this is one of these

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Speaker 1: headlines that it's sort of for the algorithm. It's meant

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Speaker 1: to catch your attention. But the larger point that America

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Speaker 1: has too much debt is an important one. And you'll

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Speaker 1: remember that Republicans they often run on making the debt smaller,

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Speaker 1: They're going to get rid of the debt, and often

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Speaker 1: they instead grow the debt. And so one of Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump's things was that he was going to work on

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Speaker 1: the deficit, lowering the deficit. Maybe he didn't, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's sort of He said was that, you know, the

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Speaker 1: Republicans tend to criticize Democrats for spending, but in fact,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is in the middle of a warrant that

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Speaker 1: nobody knows why we're doing it, and is costing a

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Speaker 1: billion dollars a day, one billion dollars a day. That

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Speaker 1: is quite a lot of money, and the reason that

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Speaker 1: we're in this war nobody knows. So we are in

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Speaker 1: a moment where we're really just spending money that has

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Speaker 1: absolutely makes no sense, and it's just a completely insane

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Speaker 1: way to run a country. And you know, it's only

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Speaker 1: going to get worse because Trump is paying solar companies

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Speaker 1: not to do projects, He's incentivizing oil companies. He's making

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Speaker 1: all of the dumbest of dumb decisions.

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Speaker 3: Yes, speaking of the GOP, senators are admitting that Trump

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Speaker 3: blocked the deal to partially fund the DHS, even though

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Speaker 3: he keeps saying it's the Democrat shutdown, it's the Trump shutdown.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is amazing. John Kennedy, who is a

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Speaker 1: member of Congress from Louisiana, writes books, appears often on

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Speaker 1: Fox News, famous for getting Christy Nome fired basically by

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Speaker 1: asking her where the two hundred and twenty million dollars.

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Speaker 1: When he's talking to Will Caine, Fox News's own host,

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Speaker 1: not yet a member of the Trump administration, but probably soon,

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Speaker 1: and he says, quote, the Democrats have offered to open

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Speaker 1: up everything, but Ice ted Cruz, and I said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's accept their offer. At the same time, we would

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Speaker 1: do a bill for reconciliation for the ICE money. That way,

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Speaker 1: we're out of the shutdown and DHS is back open,

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Speaker 1: and then we have airports at work again. And Senator

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Speaker 1: Soon submitted that to President Trump, and he said, no,

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Speaker 1: no deal with Democo. So instead he sent ICE to

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Speaker 1: airports where they are arresting mothers and also just wandering

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Speaker 1: around talking on their phones, right, I mean talking at

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Speaker 1: their phones, looking at their phones, wearing bulletproof vests in

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Speaker 1: a place that you can't have a gun, looking ridiculous

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Speaker 1: where I mean, you know, but at least not wearing masks.

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Speaker 3: I mean, our next sunline is literally that they're not

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Speaker 3: doing anything but playing Candy Crush and they're getting nothing

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Speaker 3: done here.

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Speaker 1: Not that there's anything wrong with Candy Crush this podcast.

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Speaker 1: We support Candy Crush. You should support us again. Candy

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Speaker 1: crushing it.

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Speaker 3: I heard you've been candy crushing it.

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Speaker 1: Unless Candy Crush is paying me. I'm not candy crushing it.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm not candy crushing for free baby.

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Speaker 3: But the point being, we're now two days into this

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Speaker 3: and we're seeing ICE doing nothing at these airports aside

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Speaker 3: from standing around and not helping these wait times go down.

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Speaker 1: Wrecked. Lots of good photos of them looking very bored. Also,

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Speaker 1: the other thing that is that's actually pretty sticky for

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Speaker 1: Trump is that you have these guys who we were

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Speaker 1: told had to be in masks because of Docsing. Now

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Speaker 1: they are out there and they're not wearing masks. Which

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Speaker 1: is it, do we have to protect their identities or

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Speaker 1: do we not have to protect their identities when they're

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Speaker 1: in the airport because they might not be doing crimes.

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Speaker 1: I think that's pretty interesting.

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Speaker 2: Look.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump weighed in on his social media saying he's

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Speaker 1: a all caps, big proponent of all caps ice wearing masks,

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Speaker 1: but he'd greatly appreciate all caps, no masks when helping

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Speaker 1: our country out of the democratic mess at the airports.

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Speaker 1: Guess what branches Republicans control, Jesse all three?

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court two. Yeah, And you do have Steve Batten

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Speaker 3: saying that this is the trial run for the elections,

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Speaker 3: and you know, so far, if this is the trial

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Speaker 3: run for the elections, it seems like it's a lot

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Speaker 3: of people just getting pictures of these people.

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Speaker 1: So I'm excited. At least they're not wearing masks. And

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Speaker 1: the way times, by the way, are real long. If

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Speaker 1: you're going to an airport, get there seven thousand years early.

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Speaker 3: In one of my group chats, people have spoken of

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Speaker 3: getting there three and a half to four hours early

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Speaker 3: and barely making their flights.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Good stuff. So as a reaction to this, we have

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Speaker 3: Delta Airlines suspending airport perks for members of Congress until

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Speaker 3: the shutdown is over.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, good for them, Yeah, good for them. Here's the TSA.

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Speaker 1: The newest recommendation from the TSA recommends getting to the

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Speaker 1: airport four hours before your flight. Four hours. That's right,

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Speaker 1: four hours. Many of these flights, most these flights, if

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Speaker 1: you're flying in America, are under four hours, but you

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Speaker 1: should still get to the airport four hours early. It

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Speaker 1: is just incredible stuff. But good for Delta Airlines. You know,

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Speaker 1: if the Congress is not going to fund the airports,

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Speaker 1: then Delta should not be giving them any free orange juice. Correct,

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Speaker 1: no orange juice for Congress people.

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Speaker 3: How about wheelchair lifts to their gate through back doors?

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Speaker 3: What about Nancy may shoul I need her handheld?

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Speaker 1: Listen, man, I'm not getting involved in any of this.

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Speaker 1: I am not getting involved in this is all I

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Speaker 1: can say is, yeah, No, we have exciting news over

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Speaker 1: at our YouTube channel. The third episode is out now.

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Speaker 1: From our series Project twenty twenty nine are reimagining where

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Speaker 1: we examine what went wrong with democrats approach to policy

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Speaker 1: and how we can correct it and deliver changes for

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Speaker 1: the American people. The first episodes dove into campaign finance, reform, antitrust,

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Speaker 1: and regulation. Our newest episode is on how we solidify

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Speaker 1: reproductive rights for women. We talk to the smartest names

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Speaker 1: in the field, like Abortion every Day is Jessica Valenti,

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Speaker 1: the Center for Reproductive Rights, Nancy Northok UCLA is oh

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Speaker 1: and Mary Ziegler and the gout Macher Institute's Kelly Badden.

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Speaker 1: Republicans were prepared for when they got the levers of power.

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Speaker 1: Democrats need to be too. So please head over to

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Speaker 1: YouTube and search Molly John Fast Project twenty twenty nine

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Speaker 1: or go to the Fast Politics YouTube channel page and

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Speaker 1: you'll find it there. Help us spread the word. Sam

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Speaker 1: Cedar is the host of the Majority Report. Welcome, Welcome,

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Speaker 1: Sam Theater.

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Speaker 4: Always a pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 3: Molly.

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Speaker 1: I am happy to have you here because I feel

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Speaker 1: like you are equally outraged. I mean, I know we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the corruption, because you have to

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Speaker 1: talk about the corruption because it's so glaring. It's the corruption,

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Speaker 1: but it's also just the blatant stupidity of the thing.

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Speaker 1: But we can start with Trump's SEC chair prevented the

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Speaker 1: head of enforcement at the SEC from investigating Trump's circle

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Speaker 1: for insider trading. Yeah, she's.

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Speaker 4: Her name was Margaret Ryan. She's been on the job

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Speaker 4: for only about six seven months or so, and usually

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Speaker 4: it's a job like you stayed there for a long time.

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Speaker 4: She was the chief enforcement officer of the SEC, and

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Speaker 4: they were investigating the Trump business between the crypto and

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Speaker 4: other things, and apparently you're not allowed to do that.

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Speaker 1: It was the enforcement they had the problem with.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, you can show up to work, but you're

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Speaker 4: just not supposed to do anything. It feels like every

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Speaker 4: week there is at least one one example of enormous

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Speaker 4: corruption that the Trump administration is doing that would take

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Speaker 4: out any other administration. Yes, like we probably have had, honestly,

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Speaker 4: like I don't know twenty five of these stories. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and it seems to be largely irrelevant because of the

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Speaker 4: nature of this administration, which is incredibly authoritarian, and everybody

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Speaker 4: who works there, I mean, Donald Trump did a very

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Speaker 4: good job having four years off of making sure they

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Speaker 4: surrounded himself with nobody who is going to challenge him. So,

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Speaker 4: you know, it was surprising to me that NOME was

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Speaker 4: booted because they don't really seem to feel political pressure

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Speaker 4: in the same way that any other administration does, because

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Speaker 4: everybody just closes ranks. And you know, that's why we're

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Speaker 4: invading a country. Possibly we're certainly bombing a country involved

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Speaker 4: in a huge war with forty percent of the country

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Speaker 4: supports it tops and doesn't seem to be influencing Trump

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Speaker 4: at all. And so but it's fascinating. The corruption is

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Speaker 4: just I don't think that we can fully grasp the

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Speaker 4: depth of the corruption. It's so transactional and naked.

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Speaker 1: That is why with the oil futures situation, with the

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Speaker 1: question of whether or not Trump world, you know, Trump

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Speaker 1: says the war's over, the markets open, they rally, you know,

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Speaker 1: the markets closed, Trump says we're going to bomb them.

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Speaker 4: Well, but there's also some front running. I mean, so

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Speaker 4: there's tudor codes going on here, right, Yeah, there's there's

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Speaker 4: this sense of he's responding to the markets, although I

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Speaker 4: think it's also possible. You know, we've got what thirty

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Speaker 4: five hundred US Airborne.

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Speaker 1: The Marines from I think it was a Marine.

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Speaker 4: Expeditionary force, and the airborne is like, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: four days out. It's possible he was just buying time.

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Speaker 4: But it's also possible he was just reacting to the

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Speaker 4: market and there isn't necessarily a plan. But then there's

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Speaker 4: also like, uh, you've got people buying oil futures, you know,

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Speaker 4: moments before he makes these announcements.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you.

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Speaker 4: Know, we've seen this time and time again. We've seen it,

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Speaker 4: you know on ploy Berker. That's just like insider trading,

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Speaker 4: which I don't know, it's hard to assess which is worse.

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Speaker 4: It's just it's quite obvious. There's a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 4: corruption and they're just milking every single aspect of the

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Speaker 4: job is being monetized. You know, today it was official

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Speaker 4: that the Trump administration is paying a French company that

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Speaker 4: had bought about a billion dollars worth of federal leases

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Speaker 4: to build wind farms off the coast of New York

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Speaker 4: State and North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Right wind farms that we need to make power that

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Speaker 1: would be free once it got going.

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Speaker 4: It's relatively, yeah, relatively, and he's making them whole as

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Speaker 4: a way of like, you know, I guess buying them out.

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Speaker 4: But part of the deal is we'll give you a

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Speaker 4: billion dollars taxpayer money, right, You then have to invest

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Speaker 4: in a new liquid natural gas refinery in Texas and

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Speaker 4: some other oil deals down there. So essentially tax dollars

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Speaker 4: to encourage to subsidize more or less more fossil fuel production.

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Speaker 4: The company itself said, like, you know, we still believe

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Speaker 4: that the wind power is is the thing, but it's

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Speaker 4: just too expensive now to do it in America because

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Speaker 4: of course it would take all sorts of legal hurdles.

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Speaker 4: And then you know, just one other sort of side

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Speaker 4: note to this. In December, Donald Trump's media company, which

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Speaker 4: trades under DJT I think it is, did a six

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Speaker 4: billion dollar all stock transaction no money involved in this,

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Speaker 4: all stock transaction with a company that is in development

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Speaker 4: of fusion. Now, we've been hearing about fusion power for

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Speaker 4: a long time.

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Speaker 1: It's always like twenty years.

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Speaker 4: It always feels like it's a decade away. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 4: this is supposedly a decade away.

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Speaker 1: But make energy with nothing, Well here, it might happen.

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Speaker 4: It might happen, but at the very least we know

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Speaker 4: that they have less competition because Donald trumpet is essentially

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Speaker 4: destroying the solar market, both in terms of like the

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Speaker 4: the centralized stuff with the solar panels, you know, you

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Speaker 4: no longer subsidized to put those on your house, but

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Speaker 4: also taking out these wind farms. So even as like

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Speaker 4: a pump of dumb scheme, he's using taxpayer dollars to

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Speaker 4: increase the value of his company's all stock investment in

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Speaker 4: this fusion company. It's donning.

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Speaker 1: So it's corruption and its grift, and it's sort of

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Speaker 1: venn diagram of both. I want to go back to

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Speaker 1: Christinome because I think that her being kids of the

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Speaker 1: curb is an interesting phenomenon. And I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about a press conference yesterday that Donald Trump did where

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Speaker 1: so one of the things Trump does is he backs

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Speaker 1: away from things when they start to seem like they

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Speaker 1: might be And one of the things that happened with

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Speaker 1: Christine Oome is it turns out she spent two hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty million dollars on horseback riding basically horseback riding

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Speaker 1: movies and cowboy hats. And there's quite a lot of

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Speaker 1: money even for this administration. You know, she's the tactical pants, right,

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Speaker 1: the Scott Prouet with the tactical tactical pants of Trump

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Speaker 1: one point zero. I was watching this press conference yesterday,

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Speaker 1: and there was one today where he said a lot

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Speaker 1: of crazy stuff. But yesterday he started I thought it.

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Speaker 1: It seemed as if he was starting to make a

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Speaker 1: case that Whiskey Pete might eventually go the way of

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Speaker 1: Christy Nome.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if we watched the same press conference,

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Speaker 4: but he said at one point like Pete told me

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Speaker 4: to do this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, That's what I'm talking about it.

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Speaker 4: He's always looking for a fall guy. It occurred to

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Speaker 4: me today on my show. It's like, maybe what we

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Speaker 4: all need to do. It's not like Donald Trump watches

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Speaker 4: my show, but we should all just pretend he's won,

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Speaker 4: you know, just give him a little bit of grace,

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Speaker 4: tell him that he's won, and hopefully back. I don't

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Speaker 4: know that the plan could be also to you know,

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Speaker 4: it's unclear. I don't think that, you know, we're in

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Speaker 4: a position. The New York Times reported that MBS Crown Yes, yes,

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Speaker 4: the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is supposedly encouraging him

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Speaker 4: to go further. The Saudi government denied it, but who

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Speaker 4: knows it certainly wouldn't be on Israel, who definitely wants

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Speaker 4: us to go further to say that it's the Saudist

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Speaker 4: But Maddis mad Dog Maddis.

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Speaker 1: Yes, who was too sane for this administration and is out.

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Speaker 4: He yesterday reportedly said at some event that, like, if

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Speaker 4: we leave now, Iran's going to charge a toll to

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Speaker 4: get through this straight to hor Moves, which apparently oil

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Speaker 4: companies don't like. I don't know this for a fact,

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Speaker 4: I haven't done any research on this, but I'm willing

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Speaker 4: to bet you that Maddis works for a defense contractor.

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Speaker 4: Oh I since on a couple of boards, and.

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Speaker 1: So yes, just put the toll up. I'm fine with

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Speaker 1: that go.

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Speaker 4: The thing is is that there's a lot of people

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Speaker 4: who as much as this looks like a disaster to us, right,

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Speaker 4: as much as like, you know, a three or four

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Speaker 4: month oil shock and all of the sort of like

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Speaker 4: other implications of the fertilizer shortage, you know, which I think.

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Speaker 1: Won't really class in season, won't.

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Speaker 4: Really crest until twenty twenty seven. I think the fertilizer

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Speaker 4: is already in the system for this crop. But twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty seven, you're going to see a lot of social believe.

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Speaker 4: The last time we saw that, we got the Arab spring.

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Speaker 4: But who knows where this will happen. There's a lot

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Speaker 4: of people who can make a lot of money off

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Speaker 4: of this. Yeah, you know, as to like why Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump did this, which is clearly no political upside, right,

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Speaker 4: Like if he wins, whatever that means, and we pull out, like,

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Speaker 4: there's no he's not going to be in better shape

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Speaker 4: than he was before we went in. So to me,

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Speaker 4: it sounds like somebody he's got to be making some

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Speaker 4: money some way, right, And he doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Even said right. Remember he even first before he got elected,

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Speaker 1: he told oil company billionaires, you know, you should get

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Speaker 1: me money. You'll earn the money back. And then he

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Speaker 1: recently he said, here's a truth, social post. The United

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Speaker 1: States is the largest oil producer in the world by far,

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Speaker 1: So when oil price is gone, we make a lot

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Speaker 1: of money. We because they only privatize the games, they

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Speaker 1: socialized losses, we don't make a lot of money now.

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Speaker 4: We actually, if you want to look at sheer numbers,

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Speaker 4: is actually the ones who are paying more money in

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Speaker 4: gas prices and in inflation from everywhere else. We are

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Speaker 4: the ones who are paying the oil companies who are

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Speaker 4: making all the money.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to Joe Kent for a minute,

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Speaker 1: because you got my head going on the people who

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Speaker 1: leave the admitted. So this administration closes rank really well.

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Speaker 1: And the difference between Trump one point zero and Trump

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Speaker 1: two point zero is that nobody everybody stays in right,

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Speaker 1: So if you get fired, you move to a different job,

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Speaker 1: which prevents you from doing interviews and writing books. So

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Speaker 1: Christy nom now runs the Shield of the Americas, which

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Speaker 1: is not a real thing. But nope, but she's too

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Speaker 1: stupid to know. Probably a good job. I mean, right,

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Speaker 1: did she get to where the cowboy hat? But you know,

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Speaker 1: let me just say she does not get her picture

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Speaker 1: everywhere like she used to have her picture in airport.

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Speaker 1: It's not anymore.

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Speaker 4: And I would imagine her political career. I think it's over, yes,

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Speaker 4: Like I mean, like what like if she had any

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Speaker 4: desires of being like a VP for somebody or something

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Speaker 4: like that, I find it that's done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But everybody's political career, I mean, everyone who's gotten

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Speaker 1: in any kind of contact with Trump world is not

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Speaker 1: going to happen. I mean Jadie Vance is hiding from

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Speaker 1: this war.

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Speaker 4: Jd Vance has gone into uh Is Like it does

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Speaker 4: seem like he's hiding in a bunker right now. And

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Speaker 4: Marco Rubio remember him, he was a Secretary of State.

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Speaker 4: I haven't seen him in like.

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Speaker 1: Tweets you don't see. I mean the crazy part is

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Speaker 1: Jade Vance, who had never who could not stop defending

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Speaker 1: everything in the entire world, who was if there was

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Speaker 1: a Nazi group chat, he was out there being like

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Speaker 1: those kids they were just thirty two. That guy does

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Speaker 1: not tweet anymore.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's interesting, Like That's my point is

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Speaker 4: like from a political standpoint, this is not a good

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Speaker 4: thing for Trump to do. No, and so they could

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Speaker 4: not make the argument that that was the case. Somebody

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Speaker 4: told him it was it was going to be a

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Speaker 4: slam dunk. But I also imagine he's got to be somebody.

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Speaker 4: There has to be an entity that is putting money

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Speaker 4: in his pocket in some fashion that is in favor

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Speaker 4: of this. Maybe it is Saudi Arabia, maybe it's some

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Speaker 4: other country, but somewhere he is making money from this.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I listens to be has to be if

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Speaker 4: oil gets more expensive, maybe he owns part of like

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Speaker 4: the output of Venezuela and maybe he's getting I don't know,

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Speaker 4: but there is no other logic to it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned this before, but Reuter's reports this morning,

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Speaker 1: and again it's just sort of we sort of knew

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Speaker 1: this was true, but that Trump right gets off the

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Speaker 1: phone with net Yahoo and orders the strike, right, and

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Speaker 1: then we have this Times reporting later in the day

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Speaker 1: at Saudie's. You know, wanted this involved in this, hoping

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Speaker 1: for more from this. I always am curious about the

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Speaker 1: timing of stories like this. Yeah, and we're both liberal Jews,

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Speaker 1: so I get very worried about this for any number

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Speaker 1: of reasons. But you know, a lot of people on

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Speaker 1: the right are saying it's anti Semitic to say that

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Speaker 1: Israel somehow was involved in this war, though clearly they

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Speaker 1: were no. But you know, the Jonathan Greenblatz of the world.

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Speaker 4: Jonathan lad is a is a grift. I honestly, if

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Speaker 4: Jonathan green Blaze told me my house was burning down,

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't believe. Both Marco Rubio and people somehow forget this.

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Speaker 4: Mike Johnson almost at the exact same time that Marco

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Speaker 4: Rubio said, yes, we attacked because Isla that they were

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Speaker 4: going to attack, and we thought we would be attacked,

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Speaker 4: and so we were preempting.

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Speaker 1: That, by the way, an insane statement.

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Speaker 4: Well, only if like they had agreed that was the

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Speaker 4: best case scenario to sort of like say we had

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Speaker 4: to do this, they could have stopped Israel in that right,

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Speaker 4: They could have said, couldn't.

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Speaker 1: We're not the superpower. We're in the superpower.

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Speaker 4: Of course, yeah, it without a doubt. I don't I'm

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Speaker 4: not even convinced it's in Israel's best interest, but certainly

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Speaker 4: it was certainly on their on their bucket list. Yaho's

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Speaker 4: been saying that, yes, And I mean, let's be honest, Like,

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Speaker 4: you look at this country, ninety three percent of the

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Speaker 4: polling is in favor of the multitude of wars that

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Speaker 4: they're waging right now. When other countries look at this

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Speaker 4: country and see Donald Trump as winning twice, even though

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Speaker 4: one time he didn't win the popular vote, they would

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Speaker 4: be nuts to assume that this country isn't at the

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Speaker 4: very least forty eight percent on board with Donald Trump. Right.

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Speaker 4: And I'm sorry when you look at that, Yaho's been

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Speaker 4: in power for thirty years in that country. Off and

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Speaker 4: on the fact of the matter is, there's no government

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Speaker 4: that's going to be demonstrably bad than net Yahoo, particularly

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Speaker 4: with the way that the system of their government is,

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Speaker 4: and the polling shows ninety three percent they're excited about

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Speaker 4: their war in Lebanon as they're trying to push up

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Speaker 4: and essentially expansionist Israel. They're they're talking now about resetting

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Speaker 4: a boundary permanently or at least semi permanently in Lebanon.

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Speaker 4: They're basically waging pogroms in the West Bank. We've seen

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Speaker 4: them destroy and flatten Gaza and still continue to create

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Speaker 4: incredible deprivation and the miseration of Palestinians in Gaza. I mean,

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Speaker 4: so it was certainly within Israel's interests why Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: decides to form a US policy around Israel's interest That

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Speaker 4: was the story they told us until they realized, like, hey,

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Speaker 4: this doesn't necessarily jibe with America. First, I have no

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Speaker 4: doubt that there was also some other interest that Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump had. I'd like to say, I wouldn't be surprised

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Speaker 4: to find out, like they're.

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Speaker 1: All making money. There is a garent country.

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Speaker 4: That somehow or yes, in some fashion. Yeah, But the

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Speaker 4: fact of the matter is is that in the absence

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Speaker 4: of Miriam Adelson's one hundred and fifty million dollars that

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Speaker 4: we know of in this last rittle and the promises

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Speaker 4: he made to her right and like maybe Netanyah who

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Speaker 4: said like, we're gonna make this thing happen for you

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Speaker 4: and Jared in in Gaza and you guys are gonna

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Speaker 4: have your gold coast in Gaza. I mean, who knows

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Speaker 4: what inspired but the idea that that, you know.

435
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Speaker 1: And he's took this up on his own, seems it's absurd.

436
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 4: It's it's absolutely absurd to suggest that. I mean, particularly

437
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 4: when you see half his administration running the opposite way.

438
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 4: I mean, you saw that press conference when there's a

439
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 4: clip of Stephen Miller when Trump is talking about, you know,

440
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 4: blowing up Iran. Even Stephen Miller is like, is it's

441
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 4: interfering with his.

442
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: Right you know, his mass deportation, this.

443
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 4: Mass importation actually you know, a purification of America ran agenda.

444
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 4: I mean, where is this coming from within the administration

445
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 4: outside of Laura Lumer, who is like, you know, providing

446
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 4: a full throated support for this. So I think it's

447
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 4: it's naive and and just frankly, I find it offensive

448
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 4: to say that it's anti semitic to you point out

449
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 4: that Israel has its own agenda as a nation.

450
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: I find it.

451
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: Which is not ours, by the way, exactly.

452
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 4: And I find it incredibly dangerous frankly for Jews who

453
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 4: live in this country and other countries to say criticism

454
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 4: of Israel is anti semitic, and that because it implies

455
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 4: that Israelis and Jews are the same thing, and they

456
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 4: have the same agenda and they don't. That conflation is

457
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 4: dangerous to me and to my.

458
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: Family, Yes, and bad for the Jews.

459
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: Yes.

460
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: And anti Semitatism that we're all afraid of will be forgotten,

461
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: the confabulation of Jews and Israel.

462
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 4: I think the fact of the matter is that, you know,

463
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 4: one of the sort of rationales for Israel is because

464
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 4: Jews need a place to be safe. And I think

465
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 4: it is simply objectively the case that Israel is making

466
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 4: Jews less safe.

467
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right, Sam Cedar, I hope you'll.

468
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 4: Come back, Mollie, I would love to.

469
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: Dave Sarota is the founder of The Lever, whose news

470
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: season of The master Plan podcast is out now. Welcome, Welcome,

471
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: Dave Sarona.

472
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

473
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: So you're here to talk about a podcast that focuses

474
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: on one of my favorite topics. And it's one of

475
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: my favorite topics because we did a whole thing on

476
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five, which now is out of date

477
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: because he did it all and in it is this idea,

478
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: the nightmare fuel of the unitary executive theory. So first

479
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: I want you to explain what the unitary executive theory is.

480
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: The unitary executive theory is this idea that the president

481
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 2: has a constitutional right to essentially do whatever he wants

482
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: with the executive branch of the government, which of course

483
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: is the federal government. Let's just be clear the federal government. Yes,

484
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: it's the courts, Yes it's the legislature. But when you

485
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: think of like the government, like the EPA or HHS

486
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: or the FBI, that is the executive branch. And what

487
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 2: the unitary executive theory says is that because of Article

488
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 2: two of the Constitution, there's this one line in the

489
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: Constitution that says, yeah, the executive authority is vested in

490
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: a president. That that has been extrapolated by the conservatives

491
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: to argue that the Congress has no right or power

492
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: to limit what the president does with the executive branch.

493
00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: And this is obviously a fringe radical theory, especially when

494
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: you consider that the Constitution is a I mean, the

495
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: concert doesn't say everything about everything. It leaves a lot

496
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: of gaps. But I think we can all agree that

497
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: the Constitution was designed as an anti monarch document. Like

498
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: the underlying theory is, you don't want all the power

499
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: in one person's hand, so we have coequal branches of government,

500
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,239
Speaker 2: and the unitary executive theory flies in the face of

501
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: that which their theory is. The president is not a

502
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: coequal branch of government. It gets to run the executive

503
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: branch essentially without regard for the laws that Congress is passing.

504
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: So talk us through the history here, because this is

505
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: a fever dream of Richard Nixon.

506
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the history here is that in Watergate,

507
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: that was seen as a scandal that embodied an imperial presidency,

508
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: the president was deploying all sorts of things against his

509
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: political enemies. As we trace in our new series master Plan,

510
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: he was asserting the right to decide to spend or

511
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: not spend money that Congress had already budgeted, despite Congress's

512
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: very clear power of the purse in Congress. The president

513
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: back then, Richard Nixon campaigned promising to end the Vietnam War.

514
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: Months after he gets into office, he is expanding the

515
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: Vietnam War in secret without the authorization of Congress. Point being,

516
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: Richard Nixon had constructed an imperial presidency. And I think

517
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: what's important to understand is that after Watergate, the Congress

518
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: grabbed back some of that power. Right the Congress passed

519
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: the War Powers Act. The Congress passed the Budget Impoundment Act,

520
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: which says, hey, the president cannot just decide not to

521
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: spend money on stuff we've appropriated money for. The Congress

522
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: did all those investigations into domestic surveillance and spy, the

523
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: Church Commission, which created the Faiza Court system, which was

524
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: supposed to require warrants for mass surveillance. So there was

525
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: a moment where Congress pushed back against the imperial presidency.

526
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 2: But from the backlash, a backlash that within ten years,

527
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: the conservative movement was extremely upset about this congressional assertion

528
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: of power, and inside of the Reagan administration came all

529
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: sorts of attempts to grab back that power for the executive,

530
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 2: including the creation as we find that we found the

531
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: original document or set of documents inside the Reagan Justice

532
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,959
Speaker 2: Department articulating what would become known as the unitary executive theory.

533
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: And remember, Ronald Reagan had been exploring this, or at

534
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: least pieces of this in his first term. Right, the

535
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: invasion of Lebanon, the invasion of Grenado without congressional authorization,

536
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: assertions of executive privilege, Reagan firing the air traffic controllers

537
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 2: without any authorization from Congress. Right, So, all of this

538
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: culminates in the articulation of the unitary executive theory, which

539
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: I think it's important to remember. It's one thing to

540
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: say Congress says the executive can do this and can't

541
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: do this, and the executive saying, well, we've view it

542
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: this way. Inside of the statute, we have more power,

543
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: you think we have less. What the unitary executive theory

544
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: is actually saying is none of those laws apply, because

545
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 2: we are making now a constitutional argument those laws that

546
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: constrain executive authority are unconstitutional.

547
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: Now.

548
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 2: It did culminate in the Reagan administration in the Iran

549
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: Contra scandal. The Iran Contra scandal was fundamentally a scandal

550
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: about whether or not the White House has to listen

551
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: to laws that Congress passed saying you cannot fund covert wars,

552
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: and the Reagan administration tried to ignore those laws. And

553
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 2: I think the good news out of the Iran Contra

554
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: scandal was, Okay, we decided as a country, that's a scandal.

555
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: You have to listen to the laws. People were indicted.

556
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: You can't just ignore congressional laws. And so for a time,

557
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: the Reagan Revolution kind of hit a wall on what

558
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: it could do on executive power. But of course you

559
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: and I are old enough to remember what happened in

560
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: the Bush years, where after nine to eleven the sort

561
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: of push for unitary executive authority went on overdrive with

562
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: very very little opposition.

563
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I have a lot to talk about.

564
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: You bring up Aaran contra, and I'm like, oh, I

565
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: got to talk about a round country. But first I

566
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: want to go back to the Reagan do oje because

567
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 1: there are members of this Supreme Court. Yeah, I'm thinking

568
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: of Gorsich who have roots in that world. And there

569
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: are others too who have roots. You know, there's a

570
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: lot of like you know, the Clerk to Justice pipeline

571
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: and the Federalist I want to know what the document was,

572
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: sort of who cooked it up, and a little bit

573
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: about if this was directly to justify the wars in

574
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: South America.

575
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: So John Roberts and Samuel Alito were in the Edmese

576
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: Justice Department. Edmese was Ronald Reagan's Attorney general, who, by

577
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: the way, in Master Plan, we talked to Edmese. Edmes

578
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: is still around, He's ninety five years old. He was

579
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: gracious enough to talk to us about this.

580
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: Does he feel vindicated or does he feel regret?

581
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 2: I'll put it this way. Edmee's did not show any

582
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: remorse or regret about specifically the unitary executive theory and

583
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: how it's being used right now. But the scene to

584
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: say is it's after Ronald Reagan's first term, and in

585
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan's first term, people like John Roberts and Samuel

586
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: Alito have been writing various memos asserting a broad view

587
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: of executive authority under existing statutes, the president's right to

588
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 2: hire and fire, the president's right to launch wars without

589
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: congressional authority. They are articulating this and they are getting help,

590
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: by the way, from people like Dick Cheney, who is

591
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: a congressman from Wyoming who ultimately is on the Minority

592
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: Committee or representing the minority on the Iran Contra Committee,

593
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: where after Iran Contra happens, he issues a Minority report

594
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: essentially saying the problem is Congress, the problem is not

595
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: the president. Right, So he's arguing, you know, for more

596
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: and more executive authority. And where the unitary executive theory

597
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 2: gets articulated is Edmese becomes Attorney General and asks for

598
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: a big, sort of stage setting report on separation of

599
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: powers from a guy named Stephen Markman, who produces an

600
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 2: eighty plus page report about how the administration can more

601
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: aggressively assert executive authority in its second term, including starting

602
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 2: to make constitutional arguments about the president's power. And this

603
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 2: all culminates, by the way, in the question of independent councils,

604
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: special prosecutors. This is the thing that really tunes up

605
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: the Reagan administration. After Watergate, there was a bill that

606
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 2: was passed called the Ethics and Government Act, which said, listen,

607
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: when there's accusations of high crimes in the executive branch,

608
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: the executive branch cannot investigate itself. Makes sense, right, Like

609
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: the president's appointees cannot investigate the president, right, they got

610
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: their job from him, they him their loyalty. So in

611
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 2: special cases there needs to be able to be an

612
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 2: independent investigation. And Ronald Reagan's administration ends up being investigated

613
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 2: in a couple of ways, including Iran contract. And what

614
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 2: happens is that the Reagan administration goes into court and

615
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: argues that independent special prosecutors are unconstitutional because they represent

616
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: a part of the executive branch that the executive the

617
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 2: president cannot control, and the Constitution says that the executive

618
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: that the president controls the executive branch. Now that case

619
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: loses at the Supreme Court. The only dissenter is Antonin Scalia. Shocker,

620
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: Scalia dissents. But it becomes kind of cannon for the

621
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: conservative movement that we cannot allow anything independent, and that

622
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: includes the FTC, the CFD, all the independent agencies that

623
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is now trying to pack with his own

624
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,919
Speaker 2: appointees and ignore the protections against that. But that's where

625
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: all this culminates. Right. Ultimately, what you get to when

626
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: I think you listen to our podcast, is you think

627
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: Donald Trump created the sort of imperial monarchical presidency. No,

628
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: he didn't he's using the powers that were created for him.

629
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 2: Now he may be using them in a more aggressive

630
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: way than we're used to, but those powers were created

631
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: for him. And by the way, here's the crazy part.

632
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: Here's like the mind boggling part for as we talk

633
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: about it. Right now today, the Congress is right now

634
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: considering reauthorizing the Executive Branch's mass surveillance system without warrants.

635
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: And I want to underscore the without warrants part, right,

636
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: warrantless spying means the FBI can sweep in all of

637
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: your information and not have to go to another branch

638
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 2: of the government, the judiciary, to just get like, hey,

639
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 2: this is cool, right, Like we're just checking to make

640
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 2: sure you're protecting everybody's civil liberties. And the Congress, including

641
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: some Democrats, are considering renewing that power for the Trump administration.

642
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 2: So when we talk about the Imperial presidency being really

643
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: a bipartisan project, that's what we're talking about.

644
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff happening right now, and ICE

645
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: has a ton of unfettered cash from the BBB. Homeland

646
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 1: Security is in a shutdown despite the fac that ICE

647
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: has billions of dollars, which it's mind blowing to me

648
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: that no one has been like, just give the ICE

649
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: money to Homeland Security. But I guess whatever, that would

650
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: make too much sense. I want you to talk about

651
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: the Pfizer reauthorization. Where is it, who is it going to,

652
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 1: and where would it go through? And also the only

653
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: thing this administration can do is pass in reconciliation largely,

654
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: that's right. So where is this like in reconciliation is

655
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: in the Senate? Where is it?

656
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: So the PISA situation comes out of the post nine

657
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 2: to eleven period. After nine to eleven, the Bush administration

658
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: engages in warrantless wire vast amounts of data swept in

659
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: no warrants. It's in a kind of legal gray area.

660
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 2: And ultimately the compromise I put that in quotes because

661
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: it wasn't really a compromise. At the very end of

662
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: the Bush administration, Democrats and Republicans joined together in Congress

663
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 2: with the Bush administration to enshrine warrantless wire tapping and

664
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 2: surveillance in law, saying you don't have to go get

665
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: a warrant any Arguably just as bad saying to the

666
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: telecom companies, if you have given over people's private information,

667
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: you cannot be sued, so retroactive legal immunity. This gets

668
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 2: signed into law. Now this has come up for renewal

669
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: every couple of years, this kind of genuinely unprecedented power,

670
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: and we've heard about more and more abuses of this system.

671
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: Surveillance being deployed against protesters, surveillance being deployed against the

672
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 2: political opponents of Donald Trump, Surveillance being deployed against members

673
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: of Congress. And now the renewal is up again, and

674
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: you have a s situation where Trump, who had previously

675
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 2: publicly been a critic of FIZA surveillance because he perceived

676
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: it being aimed at him, all of a sudden, now

677
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: he's the president, he wants it. And what you have

678
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: are you have very conservative Republicans and the Progressive Caucus

679
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 2: saying this is no longer accepted, this is not acceptable

680
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: at all. We want to stop this. And you have

681
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 2: this sort of mushy Uni party middle of both parties,

682
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: many of them saying we want to give this power,

683
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: we want to just simply renew this power. And what

684
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: boggles the mind is Stephen Miller is the big advocate

685
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 2: reportedly for renewing this because he wants this to be

686
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 2: used with the FBI, with ice, et cetera, et cetera.

687
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 2: And you have the Democrat, the senior Democrat, Jim Himes

688
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: on the House Intelligence Committee, who is now urging Democrats

689
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: to vote for it because he says he has seen

690
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: no abuses of the system. Now here's what's crazy. Remember

691
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 2: where would you find out about abuses of the system? Like,

692
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 2: what data is Jim Himes citing from.

693
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: The Trump administration the DOJ.

694
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: Like the people who don't want you to see abuses

695
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 2: are the ones who have the data to tell you

696
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: that there aren't abuses, right, and we already know from

697
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: news reports, et cetera, et cetera, that there have obviously

698
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: been abuses. So it's it boggles the mind that any

699
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: Democrat would think about giving Stephen Miller the power that

700
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: he wants. I have sort of a like a like

701
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 2: a basic shorthand rule, like a rule of thumb. Here,

702
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 2: if Stephen Miller wants more power.

703
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: It's probably bad.

704
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: You should be the opposite side.

705
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jim Himes, what's going on? You think he just

706
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: wants the stuff that is? I mean he is in

707
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:45,439
Speaker 1: the is he in the Gang of Eight?

708
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:45,919
Speaker 3: Yes?

709
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: I guess the best like the most charitable interpretation is

710
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 2: he simply believes this kind of surveillance is providing us

711
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 2: a special special security or making the country safer. But

712
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 2: I want to just really underscore this, We're not This

713
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 2: is not a debate about whether this kind of surveillance

714
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: can happen. This is a debate about whether you just

715
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: got to go to the court, you know, And I

716
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 2: know I know that, like some people will listen and

717
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 2: be like they'll have in their minds like a scene

718
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 2: from Homeland and like she's running to save the day

719
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: and she can't stop to get the judges warrant. All

720
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: of these reform bills to require warrants have special provisions

721
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: in them that are like, listen, if there's a real emergency,

722
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 2: like a genuine emergency, you can go you can go

723
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: for the warrant after. So none of that crap applies.

724
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 2: This is about whether you think the president should have

725
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: all the power or not. And I think when you

726
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: when you listen to a series like Master Plan, I

727
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: think you come away from it, I hope being like, hey,

728
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: maybe one guy shouldn't have all the power. Maybe maybe

729
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: like the Founders way back a long time ago, like

730
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 2: they had a point.

731
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I want you to talk about the AI

732
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: regulation because that shit is wild.

733
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 2: Yes, so this relates to it, and I.

734
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: Think it's worth like putting a bow on this, which

735
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: is Donald Trump is very in the tank for AI,

736
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: even though he doesn't quite understand what it does, and

737
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: so a lot of his legislation is to prevent legislation.

738
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 2: That's right. So Donald Trump has just issued an executive

739
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 2: order trying to prevent states from regulating AI in any way.

740
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: He has no idea what it does, but he just

741
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: knows there's money there.

742
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: All right. He just knows his brologarchs want this. I

743
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: do think there are parts of the government that we

744
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: know want this too. So there has been this concurrent

745
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 2: fight between Pete Hegseth's Pentagon and Anthropic that seems like

746
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: a side issue but is actually, to my mind, like

747
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: a central issue. The fight is about. Anthropic has said, look, Pentagon,

748
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 2: we'll let you use our we'll contract with you, you

749
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: can use our technology, but we have some basic internal

750
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 2: controls that are designed to prevent our technology from being

751
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 2: used to run let's say, autonomous weapons or to do

752
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 2: mass surveillance. Okay, these are not things that the law

753
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: requires us to do. But they're things that like, we

754
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: have decided as a company, we don't want our technology

755
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: to be used for heg Seth and the Pentagon are

756
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 2: basically saying, no, we want you to give us a

757
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: switch to turn off those guardrails when you contract with us.

758
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: So what they're really saying is to my mind, what

759
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: I hear them saying is we want to use AI

760
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 2: for autonomous weapons and for mass surveillance. We want to

761
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: use AI as an example to plug into all of

762
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: that data that we are sweeping up now without a

763
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: warrant thanks to the FISA law. Right, it's the convergence

764
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 2: of the PISA law debate and renewal with the AI contract.

765
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 2: They want to plug all of that warrantless data into

766
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: the AI systems, and Anthropic has basically said, we're not

767
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: really comfortable with that. Now. Here's where it escalates at

768
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: the lever. We broke the story last week that Trump

769
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 2: is now quietly proposing to put a line into all

770
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 2: government procurement contracts okay, government wide, not just the Pentagon,

771
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 2: saying that when any agency contracts with any AI company,

772
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: the AI companies have to give Trump officials the power

773
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: to override any of those AI systems privacy or safety guardrails.

774
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: In other words, a line in the contract that says

775
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 2: the Trump administration when it contracts with AI companies, they

776
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: can do whatever they want with that technology, regardless of

777
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: how that technology is engineered or designed to operate. To

778
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: my mind, I mean that is genuinely terrifying. And I

779
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: should add whether it's Trump or another president, it is

780
00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 2: genuinely terrifying. That level of power concentrated a powered in

781
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: the hands of one small subset of people is insane.

782
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: Dave, Dave, Dave, I hope you'll come back.

783
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 2: I would love to come back. Thank you for discussing this, Molly.

784
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: I'll just say, these are a set of issues that

785
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: are like the kind of issues that are like under

786
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: every other issue. Right, there's a couple of issues that

787
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: connect to like every issue, right, and I think it's

788
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: executive power. Concentrated power is one of them. Obviously, legalized corruption,

789
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: money and politics is another. It's like they're like the

790
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: Kevin Bacon of issues, right, Like there's six degrees of Kevin.

791
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: They're like two degrees away from every single issue. So

792
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: thank you for you know, helping us talk about this.

793
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: And unpack it.

794
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 5: There no moment, Jesse Kannon Molly, the Pentagon is directing

795
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 5: companies to censor Iran war information.

796
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: It is just unbelievable. They've now annexed the press to

797
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: another room after the judge knock them down. This is

798
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 3: just getting silly. What will snowflakes? The Department of War

799
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 3: are truly fragile. Listen, Jesse, I'm all yours. Tell me,

800
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 3: tell me.

801
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: I have a theory that these people are not free

802
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: speech absolutists. I have a new theaty thinking about.

803
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 3: The evidence on your side, and I don't know what

804
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 3: to do.

805
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: I have this theory that these people are actually not

806
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: free speech absolutists. Satellite companies are being told how to

807
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: describe the images they capture. Look, here's an interesting thing

808
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: about this moment. We have Roan does not have a

809
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: free and fair media. It has censored media. Then we

810
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: have Israel censoring its media. Then we have the United States,

811
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: which theoretically the first Amendment, it's the first what not

812
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: even the second Amendment, which Republicans love so much, the

813
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: First Amendment, they don't like it anymore, the first Amendment.

814
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: And we have all sorts of situations where we have

815
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: stories where we can't figure out who to trust, Where

816
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: Trump and the Iranian government they can't agree on what

817
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: and you don't know who to trust because our government

818
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: is filled with liars, and so is theirs, and so,

819
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, we find ourselves in a moment that

820
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 1: is a particularly dark moment in American life. That's it

821
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,

822
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make

823
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

824
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

825
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.