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Speaker 1: Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet.

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Speaker 2: More than half the satellites in space are owned and

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Speaker 2: controlled by one man.

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Speaker 1: Starting his own artificial intelligence company.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius.

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Speaker 1: Legitimate, he says.

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Speaker 3: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will

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Speaker 3: be different.

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Speaker 2: He'll vote Republican.

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Speaker 3: There is a reason the US government is so reliant

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Speaker 3: on him.

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

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Speaker 1: Anything he does is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: People. Welcome to Elon Ink, where we discuss Elon Musk's

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Speaker 2: vast corporate empire, his latest gambits and antics, and how

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Speaker 2: to make sense of it all. I'm your host, David Papadopolis.

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Speaker 2: This week, we'll discuss some of the fallout from Musk's

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Speaker 2: dramatic appearance at the New York Times deal Book Conference.

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Speaker 2: One of many noteworthy moment, which is when Elon began

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Speaker 2: talking politics.

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Speaker 4: I let's say I'll vote for Trump, but I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is definitely a difficult choice here.

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Speaker 2: It's not news that Elon has been moving to the

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Speaker 2: right in the past few years, but it's been a

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Speaker 2: complicated turn. It doesn't fit neatly with his leadership on

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Speaker 2: electrifying vehicles to address climate change. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 2: he's taken an anti woke stance in his post on

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Speaker 2: X among other moves like moving some of his manufacturing

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Speaker 2: to Texas. Oh, and he also told advertisers to go

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Speaker 2: fuck themselves. We'll come back to that to figure out

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Speaker 2: what Elon's role could be in American politics as we

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Speaker 2: enter a presidential election year. We have Sarah Fryar, who

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Speaker 2: leads our big tech team here at Bloomberg. Hello, Sarah, Hello,

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Speaker 2: Dana Hull, who covers Tesla among other musk projects, Dana

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Speaker 2: Hey Hey, and Max Chafkin, senior reporter at Bloomberg BusinessWeek.

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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So a moment ago, we played a bit of

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Speaker 2: musk discussing that we would vote for next year with

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Speaker 2: Aaron Ross Sorkin at the New York Times Deal Book Conference.

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Speaker 2: Here's that full exchange.

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Speaker 3: Could you see yourself voting for President Biden if it's

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Speaker 3: IF's a Biden Trump election, for example.

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Speaker 4: I think I would not vote for Biden.

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Speaker 3: You'd vote for Trump.

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Speaker 4: I'm not saying I'd vote for Trump, but I mean

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Speaker 4: this is definitely a difficult choice. Yeah, you know, would

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Speaker 4: you vote.

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Speaker 3: For Nicki Haley. Nicki Haley, by the way, wants all

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Speaker 3: social media names to be exposed.

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Speaker 4: As you know, No, I think that's outrageous. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to vote for some pros and censorship candidate.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Dan, So let's start with just a primer on

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Speaker 2: Elon's political leanings.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think, as we've all said, they're complicated.

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Speaker 5: He does not neatly fit into a box. And I

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Speaker 5: think he's really a political chameleon who kind of waxes

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Speaker 5: and waynes depending on how it impacts his businesses and

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Speaker 5: personal all fortune. So, when Tesla was a young company

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Speaker 5: that was really struggling for survival and President Obama was

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Speaker 5: elected and the Recovery Act poured millions of dollars into

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Speaker 5: Silicon Valley companies that were investing into clean tech, Tesla

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Speaker 5: was a big beneficiary of that, and you know, Musk

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Speaker 5: was widely viewed as kind of like a left leaning

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Speaker 5: climate change champion. And then we you know, fast forward,

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Speaker 5: Trump is elected in twenty sixteen, we have the pandemic,

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Speaker 5: and Musk kind of more publicly moved towards the right.

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Speaker 5: I think the clip that you just heard really speaks

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Speaker 5: to this long standing beef that Musk has had with

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Speaker 5: President Biden that goes way back to like August of

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty one, when Biden invited Detroit automakers to the

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Speaker 5: White House to kind of celebrate electric vehicles and Tesla

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Speaker 5: was notably not invited. And that is like this snub

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Speaker 5: that still eats away at him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it still sticks in his cross And we're gonna

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Speaker 2: we're gonna dive in depth into that. And second, but

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Speaker 2: before we do, Max, chameleon is a term I've heard

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Speaker 2: you also use a lot for Musk and his political

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Speaker 2: and he's politics.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely yeah, And and I mean Dana didn't mention, but

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Speaker 6: of course George W. Bush was president, you know, during

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Speaker 6: the early days of SpaceX and during Musk's early engagement

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Speaker 6: with Tesla, and and there was sort of an even

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Speaker 6: earlier era of Musk talking about Tesla and his old

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Speaker 6: his whole empire and kind of vaguely libertarian terms. I mean,

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Speaker 6: people think of him as this environmentalist, but early on,

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Speaker 6: the whole pitch from Tesla was that it was a

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Speaker 6: better sports car than a Porsche. Elon was a Porsche driver,

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Speaker 6: and he was like, I'm gonna make I'm gonna make

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Speaker 6: a car that's even better than this. And and I

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Speaker 6: think that was kind of, you know, pitch to appeal

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Speaker 6: to the kind of George W. Bush, you know, compassionate conservatism.

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Speaker 6: So he's he's moved over the years. And and I

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Speaker 6: think what's what's sort of notable about the Biden beef

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Speaker 6: that that Dan is bringing up here is sort of

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Speaker 6: just how wrong footed Elon Musk has been.

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Speaker 1: He he is.

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Speaker 6: This is like the first time since the Bush administration

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Speaker 6: where he hasn't been able to find a way to

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Speaker 6: get on good terms with the person who's in the

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Speaker 6: White House.

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Speaker 2: Everyone wants to talk about the snubs, so let's go

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Speaker 2: into it. Elon at deal Book spoke at length about

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Speaker 2: it and sort of spoke about it in kind of

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Speaker 2: somewhat raw terms. It's clearly still very personal to him.

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Speaker 4: I mean, without any doing nothing to provoke the wide administration.

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Speaker 4: They held an electric vehicle summit at the White House

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Speaker 4: and specifically refused to let Tesla attend. This is in

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Speaker 4: the first six months of the administration, and we inquired, like,

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Speaker 4: we literally make more electric cars than everyone else combined.

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Speaker 4: Why are we not allowed? Why are you only letting

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Speaker 4: you for GM, Chrysler and UAW and you're specifically just

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Speaker 4: allowing us from the EV summit at the White House.

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Speaker 4: We've done nothing to provoke them. Then Biden went on

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Speaker 4: to add insult injury and publicly said that GM was

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Speaker 4: leading the electric car revolution. This was in the same

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Speaker 4: quarter that Tesla made three hundred thousand electric cars and

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Speaker 4: GM made twenty six. Does that seem fair to you?

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Speaker 2: So, Dana, can you indeed can hear in his voice

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Speaker 2: how it still really bothers him. I mean, the truth

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Speaker 2: of the matter is he's got something of a point here.

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Speaker 2: It would be a little bit like talking about the

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Speaker 2: Professional Football League in commaning a conference with it and

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Speaker 2: not inviting the NFL.

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Speaker 5: Right, Well, I think it's beyond that. I mean, it's

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Speaker 5: not just the emission of Tesla. It's that Biden went

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Speaker 5: sort of above and beyond to heap praise onto General

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Speaker 5: Motors and Mary Bara and you know, I mean, Biden

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Speaker 5: visited this GM factory in Detroit, and he took a

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Speaker 5: spin in an electric comer and he said, Detroit's leading

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Speaker 5: the leading the world in electric vehicles, and he sort of,

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Speaker 5: you know, praised Mary barras like leading the revolution. I mean,

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Speaker 5: that is really not fair. Any history of the ev

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Speaker 5: industry knows that GM really fought tooth and nail against

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Speaker 5: Tesla's ability to sell to consumers directly. They had the

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Speaker 5: EV one pro that they shuddered. So it's not just

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Speaker 5: that Tesla is like omitted from all these like pomp

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Speaker 5: and circumstance shows at the White House lawn. It's that

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Speaker 5: like Biden is like keeping praise on GM and and

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Speaker 5: like barely mentioned Tesla at all until we called him

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Speaker 5: out on it. And that's what feels very personal form Musk.

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Speaker 5: And that's why going into the selection cycle, like he

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Speaker 5: is not inclined to vote for a man who he

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Speaker 5: has publicly called a damp sock puppet.

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Speaker 7: He's extrapolating beyond Biden to in the last midterm he said,

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Speaker 7: don't vote for Democrats.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, he has indeed gone from Biden to the

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Speaker 2: whole Democratic Party.

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Speaker 1: It might not be fair, but it's it's politics.

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Speaker 6: It's not surprising that Joe Biden, a kind of Democrat

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Speaker 6: who ran on on pro union, you know, bring the

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Speaker 6: jobs back to Detroit type credentials, would go around celebrating

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Speaker 6: union auto shops, especially given you know, Elon Musk's history

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Speaker 6: with unions, which we've talked about on.

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Speaker 1: The show all the time.

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Speaker 6: And and of course Elon Musk is not used to this,

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Speaker 6: He's not used to to dealing with this kind of

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Speaker 6: politician in Joe Biden, and and it again, it's it's

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Speaker 6: surprising to me that he hasn't tried to find a

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Speaker 6: way to embrace Bidenomics or whatever you want to call

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Speaker 6: Joe Biden's politics.

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Speaker 1: Because of course he could. He has a very.

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Speaker 6: Compelling pitch to offer Democrats if he wanted to.

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Speaker 2: Right, So you're you're basically saying that the chameleonic Musk

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Speaker 2: of years past would have gotten over the hurt feelings

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Speaker 2: or whatever, and we just rolled with this.

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Speaker 1: That's what I would have expected.

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Speaker 6: What may be going on here is just that Elon

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Speaker 6: Musk is a lot bigger than he was earlier. So

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Speaker 6: in the old days, you know, any president is going

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Speaker 6: to sing single out a uh, you know, American job creator,

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Speaker 6: startup from Silicon Valley that's doing pretty well. Suddenly we

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Speaker 6: have this guy who is the world's richest man, who

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Speaker 6: is you know, has a political has spoken out against

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Speaker 6: unions in the past, and that makes him harder perhaps

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Speaker 6: for somebody like Biden, or really any presidential candidate to

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Speaker 6: just fully embrace.

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Speaker 7: Especially with the backdrop of income inequality, inflation, people not

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Speaker 7: being able to you know, afford basic things in their minds,

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Speaker 7: even if it's improved. I think he really wants to

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Speaker 7: speak to the working class in America and being really

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Speaker 7: close with the world's richest man is not a good look.

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Speaker 5: And let's be honest, Michigan is critically important to Biden's

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Speaker 5: re election campaign. The Detroit Automakers are based in Michigan.

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Speaker 5: There is no real value add to coosing up to

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Speaker 5: a billionaire who has moved to Texas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah so he' right, he's got plants in California, foregone

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Speaker 2: conclusion in elections and Texas foregone conclusions in election. Michigan. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: always you know, up for grabs, which again comes back

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Speaker 2: to Max's point about chameleonic Musk in the past would

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Speaker 2: have just sort of seen it for what it is.

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Speaker 2: But let me throw this at you, Dan, I mean,

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Speaker 2: is it also possible that his ability to roll with

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Speaker 2: Biden and find a way to become sympathical with him

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Speaker 2: also just perhaps reflects how the pandemic actually really affected

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Speaker 2: him and sort of by him meaning Elon and just

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Speaker 2: kind of drove him ideologically further to the right.

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Speaker 7: That's part of it.

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Speaker 5: I think what's weird about this is that Biden's Inflation

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Speaker 5: Reduction Act keeps billions of dollars onto climate change efforts

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Speaker 5: through everything from like a manufacturing text credit, which Tesla

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Speaker 5: really benefits from, to funding for electric vehicle chargers all

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Speaker 5: over the United States, to like, you know, a ten

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Speaker 5: percent credit for refining raw minerals in the US, which

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Speaker 5: is why Tesla now has this lithium refinery in Corpus Christy. So,

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Speaker 5: you know, Musk, as much as he likes to sort

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Speaker 5: of portray himself as being a self made man, really

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Speaker 5: does benefit from government programs, government programs designed to combat

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Speaker 5: climate change. Would think that there would be some kind

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Speaker 5: of detente where they could put the personal grudge aside

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Speaker 5: and just sort of, you know, move forward and talk

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Speaker 5: about the benefits of the IRA. But that's that's not happening.

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Speaker 5: And I think what's so so wild about this these

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Speaker 5: clips that we just heard from Deal Book is Musk

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Speaker 5: is saying he's not inclined to vote for Biden, but

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Speaker 5: he's not. He hasn't yet endorsed a Republican candidate either,

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Speaker 5: and that Republican field is really narrowing, and it's like,

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Speaker 5: what is his game here? Like he sort of, you know,

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Speaker 5: did the speak show of coming out with DeSantis, then

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Speaker 5: he sort of was flirting with Vivek, and but now

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Speaker 5: he's saying he won't he's not inclined to vote for

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Speaker 5: Nicki Haley. So like, who's left? Like, is Musk gonna

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Speaker 5: get behind Chris Christie?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Well, well, Max, you describe it like he's basically getting

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Speaker 2: behind a handful of Rump candidates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: I mean that's the thing in that clip that to

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Speaker 6: me is most surprising his refusal or hesitancy to say

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Speaker 6: that he would vote for Donald Trump, who is, you know,

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Speaker 6: way way ahead in the in the Republican primaries, is

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Speaker 6: the presumptive nominee.

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Speaker 1: And and to me.

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Speaker 6: It just shows how politically marooned Musk is. So in

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Speaker 6: certain ways, right, Okay, he's got he's got some beef

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Speaker 6: with the Democrats. Fine, that kind of makes sense, but

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Speaker 6: he also has beef with Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Trump has responded, how has he responded?

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Speaker 6: Trump has responded by insulting him back, you know, on

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Speaker 6: the campaign trail, and it's it's not that surprising because Trump,

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Speaker 6: like Biden, also wants to win over these autoworkers, right,

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Speaker 6: they're they're they're.

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Speaker 7: But I don't think that Musk really works in alliances.

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Speaker 7: I think he works in enemies, and I think that

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Speaker 7: the you know, deciding that Biden the Democrats are enemies

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Speaker 7: is more important to him than deciding which Republican he

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Speaker 7: wants to align with and support, because he needs all

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Speaker 7: of them right now, like he needs the state based

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Speaker 7: politicians for launching, launching his rockets, selling his cars. You know,

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Speaker 7: all of those regulations around car sales are very state oriented.

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Speaker 7: So what's what's the benefit to him of making any

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Speaker 7: any like choices.

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Speaker 2: He's got a lot of to Sarah's point, business interest

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Speaker 2: in Florida, Right, I mean, let's start back at the beginning, right.

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Speaker 2: Didn't this whole this election cycle start for him with

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Speaker 2: the with the Ron DeSantis X launch that went oddly? Max?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, he Uh, Ron DeSantis launched his presidential candidacy

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Speaker 6: on X. Elon had actually praised DeSantis before. I think

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Speaker 6: I believe he in fact said he was, you know,

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Speaker 6: inclined to support DeSantis in twenty twenty four. Then Elon

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Speaker 6: sort of shifted to the vek Ramaswami as as Dana

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Speaker 6: is saying, and he's at times expressed, uh, you know,

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Speaker 6: a little maybe a little curiosity about RFK, who's you know,

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Speaker 6: was running as a Democrat. He hosted him on a

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Speaker 6: yeah yeah, now running as he yes, he hosted him

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Speaker 6: on x uh and and RFK of course now running

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Speaker 6: as an independent.

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Speaker 1: And I think in all these.

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Speaker 6: Candidates you can see why there's appeal to for somebody

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Speaker 6: like Elon Musk.

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Speaker 2: Now, Dana tell us how historically involved has he been

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Speaker 2: as a donor and activist. Does he punk down a

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Speaker 2: lot of money in these elections?

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Speaker 5: Traditional?

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Speaker 4: Not at all.

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Speaker 5: I mean that's the big thing. Musk is a loud voice,

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Speaker 5: but he is not a big donor. He doesn't have

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Speaker 5: a pack that we know of. He's always like donated

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Speaker 5: very small to both sides of the aisle, but never

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Speaker 5: been a big player in presidential campaigns. He's not like

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Speaker 5: a budler. I mean, there are a lot of big

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Speaker 5: money donors on both sides, you know, who typically give

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Speaker 5: a lot to presidential campaigns, and Musk has never been

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Speaker 5: that way. So That's what's sort of curious to me

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Speaker 5: as we head into twenty twenty four. What does an

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Speaker 5: endorsement from Musk even mean? Does he give you money

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Speaker 5: or does he just sort of like platform you on

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Speaker 5: his platt Well.

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Speaker 2: Right, but Sarah, so he that is a pretty big platform, right.

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Speaker 7: Well, this will be this will be the first election

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Speaker 7: where he owns X. There was obviously the midterms where

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Speaker 7: he put his finger on the scale saying, don't vote

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Speaker 7: for Democrats, vote for Republicans. And this presidential election is

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Speaker 7: going to have obviously much bigger consequences, and he can

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Speaker 7: really shape the narrative however he wants. He's shown us

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Speaker 7: that that he will promote his own tweets. He will,

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Speaker 7: you know, decide what content stays and goes, decide when

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Speaker 7: to ban people and how to ban them if at all,

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Speaker 7: and keep them keep them posting. So, even though X

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Speaker 7: has declined in advertiser revenue in some of its cloud,

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Speaker 7: it still has this this outsized impact on the political

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Speaker 7: conversation because it is the real time network. And so

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Speaker 7: if he if he is open about who he's supporting,

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Speaker 7: you can imagine that we'd want to know a little

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Speaker 7: bit more about how X is treating that decision, if

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Speaker 7: at all, in its algorithm, in its moderation choices, in

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Speaker 7: its advertising choices, it could have a big impact.

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Speaker 6: I just to push back a little bit on what

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Speaker 6: Sarah was saying, Like, I think there's always been real

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Speaker 6: questions about how influential Twitter is actually has actually been

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Speaker 6: on the political pop process it had. It definitely gets

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Speaker 6: things in front of journalists. So insofar as there are

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Speaker 6: journalists still on X, which they are to some extent

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Speaker 6: but not as much as they used to be, there's

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Speaker 6: potential for influence there. But just you know, counterpoint is

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Speaker 6: the vik Ramaswami did really well on X. He was

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Speaker 6: embraced by Musk, platform by Musks, and he has gone

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Speaker 6: absolutely nowhere in the Republican president Like he's you know,

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Speaker 6: he's at like something like five percent in you know,

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Speaker 6: polls in Ohio, Iowa, and New Hampshire. So I don't

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Speaker 6: know how big the impact really is going to be.

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Speaker 7: You don't just have to think about what he does,

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Speaker 7: but what he chooses to not do. I think about

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Speaker 7: like what Twitter did after the January sixth insurrection. They

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Speaker 7: banned Trump, they started fact checking people, They sort of

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Speaker 7: tamped down the radicalization that was happening, not entirely, but

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Speaker 7: enough alongside Meta there was like this united front by

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Speaker 7: the platforms that they that they needed to do. You know, frankly,

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Speaker 7: too little, too late, but I think as a lot

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Speaker 7: of people thought of it that way. But I think

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Speaker 7: that that shows, you know, if you have a platform

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Speaker 7: with fewer rules around political speech. As Musk says, he

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Speaker 7: cares deeply about how quickly are people going to radicalize

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Speaker 7: in a situation where they disagree with the outcome?

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Speaker 2: All right, we do indeed need to talk sports, so

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Speaker 2: we'll we'll segue to there. Okay, welcome back. So, as

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Speaker 2: we've talked about in the past, advertisers have been fleeing

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Speaker 2: X in drobes. This topic came up in the deal

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Speaker 2: Book interview and it was the most explosive moment by far.

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Speaker 4: If somebody's going to try to blackmail me with advertising,

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Speaker 4: blackmailing with money, go for yourself, but go fuck yourself.

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Speaker 4: Is that clear? I hope it is? Hey, Bob sharing

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Speaker 4: the audience.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Sarah. So that's the landscape out there right now.

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Speaker 2: That's the tone right now between Elon Musk and X

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Speaker 2: versus or Visa VI its corporate clients, but one, curiously

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Speaker 2: one remains and remains pretty close to X and that

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Speaker 2: is the National Football League the NFL.

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Speaker 7: Why there's a lot of history there. Twitter had a

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Speaker 7: CFO who was the former CFO of the NFL, Anthony Noto,

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Speaker 7: and back around the twenty sixteen twenty seventeen era, he

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Speaker 7: created a lot of deals, including a deal Forday Night

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Speaker 7: football to be streamed on X Sorry Twitter, which is

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Speaker 7: what it was called back then.

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Speaker 2: And it trained you too well, Sarah, you know it's

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Speaker 2: actually I know, I.

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Speaker 7: Just spent too much time covering this company, But that

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Speaker 7: was that was a big deal because Twitter has a

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Speaker 7: much smaller audience, but at the time it was considered

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Speaker 7: the only place where those kind of real time conversations occur.

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Speaker 7: If somebody has an amazing touchdown or if somebody gets injured,

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Speaker 7: you are going to see people just posting about it,

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Speaker 7: even you know, out of context, assuming that everyone else

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Speaker 7: on Twitter that they follow or that there is in

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Speaker 7: their community is also watching the game. And that made

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Speaker 7: sports more fun, and it made it something that was like,

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Speaker 7: you know, the shared experience. Even if you weren't watching

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Speaker 7: the game with friends, you could feel like that that

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Speaker 7: you know, excitement.

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Speaker 2: And that community remains that community.

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Speaker 7: It doesn't have anywhere to go. I mean, I think

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Speaker 7: it's kind of a default. You're on Twitter because like

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Speaker 7: that's where your people are. I will say I've seen

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Speaker 7: the NFL start to embrace other platforms more they are

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Speaker 7: they're you know, not really finding It doesn't seem like

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Speaker 7: they're finding an alternative either. They have to be on

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Speaker 7: X and there's not many brands that that can say

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Speaker 7: that they have to be there.

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Speaker 5: Still.

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Speaker 2: Now, the NFL is the most dominant sports league in

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Speaker 2: this country, and frankly, in terms of all entertainment, it

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Speaker 2: pretty much dominates the US landscape. You look at the

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Speaker 2: top eight most watch shows all of last year, one

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Speaker 2: through eight are all NFL football games. You look at

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Speaker 2: the top twenty most valuable sports franchises in the US

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Speaker 2: fifteen of the twenty. Does this relationship with the NFL

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Speaker 2: at a time when so much is going wrong for

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Speaker 2: X Sarah? Is it actually a road to financial viability?

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Speaker 2: Is it something is it a model that can work

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Speaker 2: off of or is it ultimately still just too small

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Speaker 2: and in scale to add up?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think it's a legacy thing. I don't think

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Speaker 7: it's something that they're building. That's just the default behavior

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Speaker 7: from the years of work that Twitter did before. And

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Speaker 7: in fact, what we are seeing is the algorithm is

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Speaker 7: changing on Twitter to be more about entertainment less about

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Speaker 7: real time, and we've seen Musk embrace memes and posts

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Speaker 7: that are maybe a little older, posts from people you

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Speaker 7: may not be following. And so it doesn't seem to

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Speaker 7: me like Twitter being the place where you go to

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Speaker 7: see what's happening in the moment is really the thing anymore.

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Speaker 7: You know, see what he has done with news links,

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Speaker 7: He's down ranked them. I think that is that used

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Speaker 7: to be the soul and heartbeat of Twitter. If it's

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Speaker 7: still got that, it's because nobody else has figured it out.

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Speaker 2: So that point that tweak to the to the algo

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Speaker 2: seems very important. Right if in the past, you know, indeed,

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Speaker 2: you wanted to know which wide receiver to start in

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Speaker 2: your fantasy league, and so tweets on who was injured

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Speaker 2: and who was going to play were enormously important. You

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Speaker 2: needed that information immediately. If that's being downplayed to as

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Speaker 2: as the app becomes more of an entertainment, so that

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Speaker 2: does indeed seem like a problem, especially Max at a

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Speaker 2: time when gambling is exploding the US And I was

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Speaker 2: at a game earlier this year and the guys behind

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Speaker 2: me had made we're making all these in game bets, right,

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Speaker 2: and so like you need that real time information, right.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, I'm like what Sarah is saying is is right.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it's the platform. It's not as useful for

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Speaker 6: sports as it used to be. Like I use it

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Speaker 6: all the time to like look, no, not to gamble,

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Speaker 6: but to look at, you know, who's starting in the NFL,

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Speaker 6: to look at soccer transfer news to figure out if

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Speaker 6: the Mets, which scrub you know, Pitcher, the Mets.

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Speaker 1: Are going to sign bring next that's up here. And

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Speaker 1: you have to kind of work at it, you know,

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Speaker 1: because because.

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Speaker 2: Like because of the tweaks to the algo.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because of the tweaks the algo. But you can

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Speaker 1: do it.

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Speaker 6: And and the sports influencers, as Sarah's saying, they haven't left,

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Speaker 6: They're still there. And the thing about sports that is

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Speaker 6: really good for Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Sports is just.

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Speaker 6: Like an avalanche of developments of ups and downs and

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Speaker 6: funny stuff you want to react to.

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Speaker 1: So it's sort of perfect for that. And and I.

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Speaker 6: Think the gambling thing actually is a huge gift to

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Speaker 6: Elon Musk because of course they're having huge problems with

439
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 6: all these brand advertisers. We've seen some announcements about efforts

440
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 6: to you know, go after small businesses. I mean sports,

441
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 6: gambling websites. There's a lot of money there. Those are

442
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 6: companies like he wants X to be the everything app. Right,

443
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 6: He's gonna ask for your credit card information and he

444
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 6: wants you to do payments. So if you can gamble

445
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,719
Speaker 6: on X, that would be perfect for you.

446
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

447
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 6: And so it definitely seems like this is something they

448
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 6: can work, they can build on. I also don't think

449
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 6: it's something that's gonna go away anytime soon for all

450
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 6: the reasons Sarah is saying, like there isn't another REDS

451
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 6: isn't better for this.

452
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 5: I have a question about advertising on X. What's the

453
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 5: NBA doing Because the NBA is so player driven versus

454
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 5: owner driven. You have really big names like Lebron James

455
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 5: who used to have huge followings, like is he still

456
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 5: on X? And is the NBA doing anything around their

457
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 5: advertising or are they still on it as well? Because

458
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 5: if we're talking about sort of cultural war politics, the

459
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 5: NFL and the NBA are just very different, and I'm

460
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 5: just sort of curious about that.

461
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 7: I haven't seen any recent statements from them, but I

462
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 7: will say that I thought it was really funny when

463
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 7: Musk started this kind of premium verification product that you

464
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 7: wanted people to buy that actually didn't have anything to

465
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 7: do with whether you were who you say you are.

466
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,719
Speaker 7: He doled it out to some celebrities who were kind

467
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 7: of surprised by it and confused about why they got

468
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 7: blue checks without paying, sort of to create the impression

469
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 7: that theseelebrities, we're paying, and that it was a cool

470
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 7: hit product that you needed to buy.

471
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: Sarah last thing before we move on here, Ex's CEO

472
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: Linda Yakarino. She keeps xing about tweeting, xing posting. I

473
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: guess musk stead post is the word he wants us

474
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 2: to use. Keeps posting about the NFL football, But she

475
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: she's doing so in a sort of odd way. She'll

476
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: just post right like football heart right, Like what what

477
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 2: do we make of the Linda Yakarino football tweets posts?

478
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 2: I should say, oh, to.

479
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 7: Get inside her head. I mean, I think that that

480
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 7: she is in a tough position, right now because she

481
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 7: needs to create the impression that Twitter is a place

482
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 7: where advertisers want to put their money and the are

483
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 7: excited about hanging out and building their communities. And at

484
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 7: the same time, she is dealing with an owner and

485
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:04,719
Speaker 7: CTO who is doing everything in his power to alienate

486
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 7: some advertisers, including telling some of them at the deal

487
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 7: Book conference to go f themselves, and you know, specifically

488
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 7: calling out Bob Eiger, who is the CEO of Disney,

489
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 7: which was a very major advertiser for Twitter for a

490
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 7: long time. So yeah, she's got to take what she

491
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 7: can get.

492
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: We've got to talk cyber Truck again. The launch was

493
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: last week. We spent the fair amount of time talking

494
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: about it last weekend and they launched two days later.

495
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go around the room here and i want

496
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: everyone to hit me with one thought they had. We'll

497
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: start with our Tesla expert Dana Hall.

498
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 5: Why was Elon standing in the dark on stage? It

499
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 5: was a very very weird, underwhelming short presentation.

500
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: Okay, and do we have a theory Dan as to

501
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: why he was standing in the dark on stage?

502
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 5: To be fair, I have not been invited to a

503
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 5: Tesla event in a while. But I have been to

504
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 5: them in the past and they were like showstoppers. They

505
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 5: were like these very highly orchestrated LA high production value,

506
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 5: incredible events like the Model three launch, the semi truck launch.

507
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: They were awesome.

508
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 5: And then watching this on the live stream, I'm like, Okay,

509
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 5: this is very underwhelming. The big thing people want to

510
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 5: know are price and range. Elon must did not talk

511
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 5: about either during his twenty minute presentation. It was all

512
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 5: it was like showing video clips of performance, but nothing

513
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 5: about the key.

514
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: Maybe because the price is maybe because the price is

515
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: higher than they had indicated would be and the.

516
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 5: Range is louder.

517
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: There were yeah, right, so those are probably too all right,

518
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: Sarah Fryar.

519
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 7: I mean, this thing just doesn't seem that safe, Like

520
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 7: maybe for the driver, but if you're on the road

521
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 7: and the cyber truck's coming at you, I just wouldn't

522
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 7: want to be.

523
00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: I don't know.

524
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: So I'm like, as I look at that thing, the

525
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: epiphany I had over the weekend. This thing is all

526
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: stainless steel and it's built like a missile. Now, I mean,

527
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: it's gonna be it's gonna be pretty dangerous.

528
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 5: I mean, our former colleague Sean Okaine had a great point,

529
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 5: this is like ev for Doomers. I mean, they made

530
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 5: this kind of feeling during the whole presentation that this

531
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 5: is a vehicle that you can drive on Mars or

532
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 5: other planets. This is the vehicle for escaping the apocalypse.

533
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 5: It's like, you know, when when everything goes to hell

534
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 5: in a hand basket, this is the vehicle that you

535
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 5: want to be in.

536
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 7: But what in your car turns into the weapon that

537
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 7: will smash the zombies out of your way?

538
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: Right?

539
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was definitely the vibe.

540
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 7: That's but that's like not good for reality. That's there

541
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 7: are you know, kids playing on the street and stuff.

542
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: So I'm Sarah, you and I are aligned here, so Max,

543
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: that leaves you.

544
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 6: So I was just gonna say, like, I am very

545
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 6: conflicted on this because like I'm a cyclist and a

546
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 6: runner and on the other hand, like a truck that

547
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 6: smashes zombies like it doesn't I see the appeal. And

548
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 6: but anyway, the thing that the thing that I was

549
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 6: surprised by, which is actually related to this, is that

550
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 6: this truck is not going to be legal street legal

551
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 6: in Europe because European regulators, for safety reasons require trucks

552
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 6: to have rounded.

553
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: Edges like totally and so like they can't.

554
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 6: You can't even sell this thing in Europe, which I

555
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 6: hate to say, it kind of increases the appeal for me.

556
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: Uh you know.

557
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: But the other thing that I find just head scratching

558
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: is the steering.

559
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 6: Thing Like a rede a review top there's a top

560
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 6: Gear review of the of the truck. It's largely positive,

561
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 6: but it really doesn't like the steering. This drive by

562
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 6: wire system where you can't turn the wheel. You know,

563
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 6: you're you're turning the wheel sort of very small distances

564
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 6: to get it to to to turn and which is

565
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 6: a feature in high end sports cars, but which the

566
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 6: top Gear testers said.

567
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: Was weird, especially at slow speeds.

568
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: So they're out there, people are driving them, are dan

569
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: Is that correct? Yeah?

570
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 5: I mean Tesla turned over what like twelve of them

571
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 5: to the first customers last Thursday night. You know, we'll

572
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 5: see in January how many they actually deliver in December.

573
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 5: But yeah, people have them. You know, some automotive journalists

574
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 5: got early access to them, some influencers were able to

575
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 5: drive them. The other thing that's really interesting is there's

576
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 5: this whole product called the Range Extender which you can

577
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 5: buy for sixteen thousand dollars that will add vehicle range

578
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 5: to the battery, But they didn't talk about that during

579
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 5: the presentation either. And that's like a big thing for

580
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 5: a company that's kind of known for making the best

581
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 5: range batteries in the business to come out with a

582
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 5: product that, you know, if you really want the range

583
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 5: that was promised four years ago, you've got to buy

584
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 5: this sixteen thousand dollars like thing that gets it gets

585
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 5: embedded into the back of your cab. People are bummed

586
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 5: out about that.

587
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: It seems on Tesla like so all right, well, we'll see,

588
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: we'll see how this cyber truck dot. Thanks for listening

589
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: to Elon, Inc. And thanks to our panel Sarah Dana Max.

590
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: Great to be here, see you next week.

591
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 7: Thanks for having us.

592
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacey Wong. Naomi Shaven and

593
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: Rayhan Harmanci are our senior editors. The idea for this

594
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: very show also came from Rayhan Blake Maple's Handles Engineering,

595
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott. Our

596
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: supervising producers Magnus Henrickson. Thanks a bunch of BusinessWeek editor

597
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: Joel Weber. The Elon Inc. Theme is written and performed

598
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugijira. Sage Bauman is the

599
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: head of Bloomberg Podcast and our executive producer. I am

600
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: David Papadopolis. If you have a minute, wait and review

601
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: our show, it'll help other listeners find us.

602
00:31:59,000 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: See you next week.

603
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 4: The Stop staff