WEBVTT - Listener Mail: In One Ear, Out the Third Eye 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.160 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuffworks 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:15.400 dot com. Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:17.960 My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Christian Sager and 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.560 I'm Joe Mccormickin Today, we're back with another listener mail episode. 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.400 It's been so long since we've done a listener mail episode. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.160 That is our bad, not yours, But it does mean 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.200 that there's gonna be a lot of great listener mail 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:31.280 we've gotten from you all over the months since our 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.400 last episode that it isn't going to make it in. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.879 Please don't take that as an insult, but we we 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.520 thought we'd pick some messages coming in in the past 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.120 month or so from some recent episodes and and read 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.880 them back to you, share with you what you've shared 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.520 with us. Right, and so we have to introduce once 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.480 more our mail bought Carney, who has emerged once more 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.400 from his ubiliette, to to share the mail with us 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:55.840 so that we may share it with you. That might 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.800 explain why we've been told recently on Facebook that all 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:05.600 of our episodes are very dark and about what somebody 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:08.200 I think though that it's because Carney is coming out 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.800 of a Nubian I think that person who said everything 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.000 we we did was evil was confusing what we post 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.600 on Facebook with our actual episodes. So what we post 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:19.959 on Facebook is evil? No, I'm not sure of that either, 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.240 but I think they were saying, like, you keep posting 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.080 stuff about torture, and well, you know, depends on it's 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.040 in the eye of the beholder, man. We cover a 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.200 lot of a lot of ground and uh and in 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.160 doing so, we we touch on a lot of the 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.000 darker aspects of reality and human nature. But we also 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.960 cover a lot of pretty fun and uh off kilter stuff, 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.800 I think. But also as we will as as we 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.640 will discuss in this episode, many animals thrive in darkness, 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.000 So I think we should get right into it. If 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.120 you guys have no objection, let's do it. Okay, Well, 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.480 Carney is now spitting out an email that comes to us. 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.040 We're actually going to get into a few about the 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.160 Uncanny Valley episodes that Robert and I did. So this 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:03.320 first one is from our listener, Vicky, and Vicky says, Hey, guys, 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.520 love your show. Half the time that I listen. I've 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.120 never heard of the topics, but they're always really interesting. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.079 Thank you. Vicky. Vicky says, I just finished the episodes 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.520 on the Uncanny Valley, and that's, of course where we 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.960 talked about this concept in robotics and c g I 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.400 a character animation where the original understanding of it is 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.200 as characters become more realistically human, as they look more 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.040 and more like a real human, that be actually become 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.520 more disturbing when they get close to the finish line. Uh. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.960 And so we discussed how that might actually be too simple, 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.040 how the evidence for and against that existing other ways 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.440 of interpreting it, And we discussed what happens when you 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.680 go beyond the Uncanny Valley, what happens when you can 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.880 create c g I characters that are so good they're 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.760 indistinguishable from real humans Stepford Wives? Is that c g 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.200 I characters or robots? Okay, yeah, but there wasn't. There's 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.239 certainly an uncanny nous to them intended once they have 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:59.400 been turned into robots. Totally. So anyway, Vicky says, I'm 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.320 a Star Wars fan, but not obsessively. Ask me about 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.120 Star Trek. I know tons about that. Oh boy, I 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.440 didn't know that Peter Cushing was deceased or that they 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.520 used technology to recreate his character here. She's referring to, 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.079 of course, in Rogue one, the character of Grand mof Tarkan, 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.519 who was played by Peter Cushing, who is now deceased. 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.000 They brought him back from the dead using the powers 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.200 of c G I. Uh but but Vicky says, I 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.359 thought they did some anti aging technology magic on him. 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.720 Obviously at the ending I knew something was up. Uh. 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.880 My question is about possible ethical issues and using this technology, 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.760 Hollywood can make any actor perform in any movie, and 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.160 if they're deceased, they could be putting these actors into 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.600 movies they would not be a part of. For example, 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.240 before they had agreed to kill off Hans Solo to 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.280 persuade grumpy Harrison Ford to be in The Force Awakens, 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.880 they could have used this technology to put him into 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.000 twenty seven more Star Wars movies. And even if they 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:56.920 couldn't get away with it while he was alive, who 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.080 would stop them from doing it once he passed. As 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.000 amazing as this technology is, I think it has kind 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.800 of bizarre and questionable implications. What are your thoughts? Again? 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:08.680 Love the show, keep up the great work. Well, thank 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.600 you very much, Vicky. And this is a big question. Uh. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.120 It's it's in fact not just theoretical about the future. 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.920 I mean that there have already been uses of actors 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.240 after they died. Apart from Peter Cushing, I think that 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.359 wasn't There's some commercial a while back that used Fred 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.520 ash Stare or something like that. And yeah, I do 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:29.719 think this is a big question. Now. On one hand, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.080 you could say, well, once you're a public figure, once 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.400 you're in the public domain, people are going to be 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.880 calling upon your likeness without your consent all the time. 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.000 For example, fan fiction can be written about you personally 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.239 or about characters you played, and you have no control 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.000 of that whatsoever. Right, and then there's of course the 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.240 right of parity, yeah as well. But but but then 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.680 when you get down to say a character like Elvis Presley, 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.440 It's one thing to have parody related to to representations 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.880 of Elvis, but his estate is so locked down. You're 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:04.680 you're only going to see if there's c g I 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.680 Elvis is around, like official c g I Elvis is, 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:09.400 you can you can be pretty sure those are going 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.359 to be uh, you know, officially authorized by the estate. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.520 It's just that not everybody's a state uh is as 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:17.839 buckled down or will be as buckled down as the 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:19.960 press ley Est state. Yeah. I mean, I was gonna say, 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:21.840 I don't know if you guys covered this in the 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:23.920 episode or not, but I'm pretty sure Peter Cushing's a 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.480 state gave the legal go ahead for that to be done. 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.279 R Yeah, they did so. I mean, what we're asking 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.320 here really is a question of like actor contracts or 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.240 really any public figure contracts. We we should really look 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.640 at our contracts, guys, well, whether or not people can 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:39.520 bring us back from the dead. No, I mean, I 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.840 think the question is like, should this be like what 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.400 are what are your rights to your likeness? If it 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.680 is something that you have it's not like footage that 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.320 you shot being there in person, but somebody completely recreating 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.799 your likeness from the ground up, should you be able 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.920 to I mean, how much rights do you have over 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.200 somebody drawing a picture of you? And is a c 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.720 g I simulation of you that's indistinguishable from real just 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.960 an advanced version of somebody drawing a picture of you. 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.680 One of the interesting things about this is that is 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.320 we're considering this, We're we're saying, all right, your likeness 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.960 will digitally, uh continue on after you were dead and 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.880 you can have certain terms and legal uh contracts that 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.000 represent what your wills and wishes would be. In a sense, 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.000 you're beginning to create a program for your identity. You're 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.320 beginning to create a digital version of your will to 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.520 live on with the digital version of your appearance. And 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.240 so we're kind of seeing like a form of digital 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:42.680 immortality that emerges out of the need and the like 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.839 the commercial application of your likeness and the desire to 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.200 control it after death. That's interesting. Yeah, So, like you're saying, 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.880 if there are high quality digital simulations of people who 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.960 have died, you could maybe have a situation where you 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.280 write a will that says I would agree to having 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.240 high quality digital simulations of me do X, Y and Z, 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.400 but they can't do a B and C. So you'd 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.080 almost be you'd be like creating an idealized version of 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.320 you that lives on. That's sort of what you're saying. Yeah, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.880 kind of almost like a limited ghost of yourself, but 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.040 it's a ghost that's not concerned with with haunting individuals, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.000 but rather just one that's interested in just tending to 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.280 your reputation. After that, I will only be featured in 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:30.320 baked beans commercials. Okay, well, interesting thoughts. Thanks Vicky. Should 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.160 we look at another one from the Uncanny Valley episode? 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.720 I know we got some correspondence from our frequent listener 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:41.000 Peter right. Oh yeah, Peter cron Of or p K 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.280 of King de Luxe Records. He is a long time 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.080 friend of the show and writes him quite a bit. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.440 Uh And he wrote in and shaired quite a bit 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.640 on the Uncanny Valley because he's, among other things he's 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.560 involved in in virtual reality interests in the creation of 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.600 a virtual reality space station. The my understanding is is 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.080 going to be like a uh space for art and 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.920 performance in the digital realm. It's not going to be 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.400 like that ship and event horizon. I don't know, it 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.360 might be what is that but performance art. We'll actually 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.240 get into an example of that in a bet. But 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.679 Peter wrote in and said, great episodes on the Uncanny Valley. 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.920 It's one of my biggest interest as trying to help 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.040 create characters and avatars in virtual reality involves a lot 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.000 of playing around with these ideas, and for me it's 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.920 a very real thing, not just with humans, but I 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.480 feel like there's an effect like this when you get 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.040 close to anything, This sort of mismatch, as you guys mentioned, 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.400 So he's saying there's an uncanny valley not just for 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.839 human faces, but for likeness toward reality in any domain. Yes, 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.800 he says, although the effect is stronger with humans because 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.400 we're so intimately familiar with faces, but also, as mentioned, 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.160 you can get used to it kind of. Although being 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.760 in a three D space in VR with an avatar 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.920 feels different to the brain than seeing it from the outside, 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.240 which was also brought up. I believe, I think you 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.200 said being there in person, and that's what it feels like. 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.120 In VR. You have a more emotional connection with the 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:09.240 character and that can override some of the uncanny nous 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:13.080 I believe, because your resources are focused on their emotional state. However, 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.559 it can also exaggerate the awkwardness I found, so that's 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.240 sort of mitigating against There was one author we talked 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.400 about who wrote an article saying, you know, I had 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.960 looked at some humanoid robots on video and thought that 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.640 they were really creepy. I had the uncanny Valley effect, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.800 but then when I went and saw those robots in person, 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.920 they didn't bother me. And other people attest that you 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.880 can get used to things that cause the uncanny Valley 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.640 effect at first, But it sounds like Peter sort of 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.240 weighing in on both sides of that. Yes, I believe 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.560 so Marvel movies are an example of the uncanny Valley. 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.800 In another way, I think I don't find the newest 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.679 hulk creepy per se, but it looks worse than some 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.200 older hulks more c G I, despite the amount of 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.040 work and technology that I'm sure went into it, as 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.200 it gets closer to imitating muscle movements and facial expressions, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.400 it looks worse and worse. Although I'm positive will get 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.600 over this hump, at which point we'll have to worry 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.319 about stuff like, like you discussed any episode applying expression 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.679 to video, not just to make faulty evidence, but things 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.320 like playing for witnesses re enactments that rewrite their brains, 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.160 whether they like it or not, implanting new memories. That's 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.720 really interesting. Uh So, I sort of agree with Peter 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.960 about how, in a lot of cases, the as c 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.360 G I gets better, it's somehow does sort of look worse. Uh, 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.760 not just in the Uncanny Valley sense, but also in 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.760 the sense of like adding more details to things makes 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.720 it look more unreal somehow. You remember the Transformers movies, 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.079 when like the Transformers to be transforming and they'd have 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.600 all these moving parts. They'd say, okay, let's have eight 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.559 million moving screws and widgets and stuff on Optimus Prime 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.600 as he transforms through this freeway battle scene, and it 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:57.320 just looks so busy. It looks unreal. It looks crappy. Yeah, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.600 like you want to go back to Tarkin. When I 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:01.680 find me watch Rogue One, which was just a couple 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.800 of weeks ago, he didn't really bother me as much, 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.400 perhaps because I was prepared for it, but there were 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.360 a few moments where if I had to say what 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:11.400 bothered me about it, I'd say it was it was 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.960 like he was over articulated, like he was a puppet 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.040 in the puppeteer was just going all in. I would 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.679 say the c G I Tarkan in Rogue one had 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:22.400 too many pores for me, Like they were trying to 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.199 give his face real human texture by giving him all 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.400 these pores and crags and stuff. And I know that's 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.640 hard to do, so again we're not knocking the work 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.360 done by these animators. It's very difficult, but he had 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:38.520 so much texture on his face. It was too much texture. Also, 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.080 when you think about Peter Cushing, right, like the movies 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.520 that he was well known for, we're not shot in 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.160 high definition, right, so we think of our memory of 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:52.520 Peter Cushing is sort of blurrier than rogue one's memory 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.440 of him, right, Like, like it was like being up 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.640 close and personal with him if you're seeing all these 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.640 pores and facial crags and stuff like, like like trying 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.080 to imagine an HD Peter Cushing is like trying to 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:08.880 imagine a color. Charlie Chaplain, Yeah, Christian, you got an email. Yeah. 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.400 We did uh an episode on the Doomsday Clock a 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.000 couple of weeks ago. For those of you not familiar, 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.080 this is the clock that calculates humanities countdown to annihilation. 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.440 Is calculated by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, and we 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.160 took a look at it and tried to figure out 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.800 what it all goes into that that brings us closer 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:33.119 to the theoretical Midnight on the clock. And in the episode, 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.480 I brought up that I had just recently seen a 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.360 T shirt that somebody was wearing on an airplane. It 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.560 was a Lotus flower with two machine guns in it, 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.760 and on it. It said piece through Superior firepower and 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.800 what I When I looked it up, it said it 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:48.880 had come from Aliens and I wasn't aware of that. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.200 So our a listener, Rich wrote into us about this. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.480 Actually we had multiple people wrote into us about it, 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.800 but Riches really hits something on the head here. Apparently 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.400 it is a phrase that comes through the American millitary 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.160 from well before Aliens. He says, I just finished the 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:08.720 Doomsday Clock episode. It's another great podcast. I've got three comments. First, 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:12.240 piece through Superior Firepower is older than Aliens. I was 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.600 in the U. S Air Force in nineteen seventy nine 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.160 and that phrase was the unofficial slogan of the Strategic 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.559 Air Command or s a C. I assumed because they 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.600 controlled a lot of the nukes and conventional bombs. I've 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.120 seen unofficial US Air Force s a C patches with 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.360 that slogan. I don't know how old the phrases, but 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.200 Teddy Roosevelt speaks softly but carry a big stick was similar. 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:37.800 So we I was kind of wondering, like where this 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.360 had come from? Uh, And it seemed at the time 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.880 that it was something that was was written for the movie. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:47.439 It was on one of the characters uniforms, but clearly 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.280 it has origins in the real world. Then he addresses 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.920 the actual doomsday clock, and he says the fear of 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.760 nuclear annihilation, regarding that I was born in nineteen sixty 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.400 and I think I saw fallout shelter signs in my 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.880 elementary school. However, we never had drills of hiding under 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.439 our wooden desks like our older siblings. I heard those stories, 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.040 and while I was concerned with nuclear annihilation a bit 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.000 in the seventies and eighties, I always assumed the fifties 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.880 were worse, so I didn't worry about it too much 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:17.800 throughout my life. This is something Robert and I talked 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.760 about in the episode. Us being children of the eighties, 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.520 the sort of specter of the Cold War was always 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.720 hanging over us as little kids. But uh, it sounds 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.000 like what Riches proposing is that maybe it was worse 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.120 than the fifties. And I can imagine too, if that's 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.720 you know, you're a decade after the war, there's probably 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:38.600 a lot of scares in the air about potential warfare. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.280 And then his third comment is about climate change, which 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.640 so one of the things we learned in that episode 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.400 was that they calculate climate change as a part of 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.760 moving the doomsday clock, even though originally it was mainly 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.720 based on nuclear weapons. So he says climate change should 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.760 be included in the doomsday clock along with any other 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.680 probability of ending the world, and then he ends it 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.640 with saying asteroids question mark, maybe we should take a 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.240 look more rich No, something we don't I don't know, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.040 I don't know. Oh. I think what he means is 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.960 the the apocalypse that comes when we all get locked 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.840 into playing asteroids so much that we stopped eating and breeding. Yeah. Well, 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.160 I really want to thank him for clarifying the thing 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.840 about the piece through superior firepower, because I had no 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:27.080 idea what that was. And when I saw it, uh, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.400 you know, I think it was probably maybe a month 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.000 after the election, and I was just like, well, this 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.160 is kind of freaked me out a little bit. But 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.680 you know, apparently that's just my sensitivity. This is something 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.520 that goes back a good forty years. Well interpreted his 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.680 point about asteroids being, of course that at the risk 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.080 of near Earth objects hitting the Earth, which is something 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.560 I would I always think about this that pretty much 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.920 anytime I look up into the sky. But since my 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.239 son is he's about five now, and he's super into dinosaurs, 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.200 so he's he's I'll often ask not only about dinosaurs, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.880 but about uh, the risk of meteors and meteorites and 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:07.560 comets and asteroids. You know, ask why this happened and 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.360 will it happen again? And the answers that you have 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.600 to give are not always that reassuring. It's kind of like, well, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:15.840 you know, for the most part, we keep track of 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.720 it the you know, we we have we have organizations 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.920 that watch the skies and and he says, well, what 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.240 if one's gonna hit the earth? Was so, well, we 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.520 have a few different plans in place that might do 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:31.280 the trick if we catch it early enough. But it's 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.160 not quite it's not quite as reassuring an answer as 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.320 I would like to give. Sitting Down for a double 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:41.480 feature of Deep Impact and Armageddon. Oh man, which of 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.400 those movies is worse? That's a good question. That's an 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.680 episode for another day. Well, I mean, what you should 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.240 I think the way you should frame it to your 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.800 child is well, statistically, on a time scale of X 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.360 number of years, we know that it will happen again. Yeah, No, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.560 I mean, that's the thing that takes the uncertainty just 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.920 you know, it's some it's a dice roll. Sometime in 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:04.879 the next hundred thousand years, there's going to be a 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.359 large impact. It's gonna happen. Will we be prepared for it, 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:13.320 Will we have the the collective will that the collective 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.359 effort in place to deal with it? And you know, 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.800 there are times where I think, yeah, we're totally we're 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.080 getting there. Well, we'll totally be there, And in other 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.800 times where I think, now it's gonna it's gonna lose 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.000 its importance to people. Uh, people are gonna stop watching 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.680 the skies. They're gonna be busy, you know, staring into 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.560 each other's hearts like we always do. We're gonna be 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.600 arguing about stuff on Twitter when it's looming. Here's my 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.359 cynical worldview. We can't even get the roads to work 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.600 right here in Atlanta. How are we gonna take care 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.160 of any falling objects from the sky. The highways collapsed 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.719 twice in the last three weeks. Well I think one 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.399 of them was technically a buckling, which is even better. Yeah, 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.000 we're really taking care of our infrastructure. Okay, you guys 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.040 ready for another one. Let's do it. Here we got 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.359 some feedback on our Chinese immortality episode Robert and I 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.200 did this. We were discussing various Chinese mythical figures, including 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.479 one who attained this state of immortality or near immortality, 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.040 but lived in an altered state which entailed a diet 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.080 of only air and do and an apparent loss of 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.600 some male sex characteristics. Now in the episode, I used 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.720 this as a springboard to talk about some of the 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.000 studies that have suggested a connection between longevity. First of all, 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:27.160 between longevity and caloric restriction and animals, and second between 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.760 longevity and castration and men. And our listener Pat wrote 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.040 in with a response about the alleged benefits of castration. 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.280 So Pat says, Dear Robert and Joe, First of all, 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.640 love your work and everything you guys do. Your podcast 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.520 has been a staple of mind for quite some time, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.080 and I appreciate all the research and critical analysis that 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.040 goes into every episode. Please read this email from a 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.720 constructive view rather than as a critique of the wonderful 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.440 work you guys do on the podcast and subsequent publication. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.800 Well you're you're too kind, Pat, Before you set us 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.200 up to swat aston Now I'm instantly flinchtioned because I 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.240 know he's going to come out. Okay, So two notes 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.480 regarding the recent podcast on Chinese immortality, Elixirs and Enlightened Beings, 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.959 both stemming from my research regarding male hypogonadism induced by 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:15.240 androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer treatment, of which I'd 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.480 be happy to discuss further if interested. Um, although the 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.840 two studies you discussed, and those were Hamilton's, Hamilton's and 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.560 Gordon and men at All purported the castration of men 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:30.600 increased life expectancy, both are quite questionable in terms of methodology. 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.480 Hamilton's and Gordon's paper is in a population that in 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.320 no way can be compared to the broader population sample. 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.600 That population, by the way in Hamilton's and Gordon's paper 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:44.560 was institutionalized men. Uh And then second pat says men 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.240 at All study relies on a methodological process I cannot 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.880 believe past peer review in a scientific journal. And by 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:56.040 this he's referring to relying on historical records of unix 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:00.720 life expectancy from the seventeen hundreds. Uh. So hat continues, 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.520 It's undoubted, undoubtedly confounded by the time period in which 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.919 the data was observed, Whilst fascinating, neither provide what I 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:12.440 would consider robust evidence that this phenomenon is presented in men. 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.400 In fact, evidence suggests the opposite, In that hypogonadle men 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.600 are at greater risk of mortality. For further reading, see 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.040 the following and Pat lists several papers that seemed to 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.840 show an association between increased mortality and UH and loss 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.440 of male sex characteristics. Pat continues, I appreciate there's a 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.960 large amount of heterogeneity amongst trials. However, claiming that men 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:39.880 can benefit from castration or being quote less manly is oversimplified, 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:44.720 in my opinion, not in line with current current scientific knowledge. UH, 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.159 and I would I would say, well, I would certainly 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.480 agree with pat on that while the studies we cited 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.520 are real, I hope it came through that the thread 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.399 connecting them to the topic of the episode was primarily 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.480 a humorous one because an advocating for people to go 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.520 out and become you know, I was advocating castration is 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.320