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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuffworks

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Christian Sager and

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe Mccormickin Today, we're back with another listener mail episode.

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Speaker 1: It's been so long since we've done a listener mail episode.

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Speaker 1: That is our bad, not yours, But it does mean

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Speaker 1: that there's gonna be a lot of great listener mail

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Speaker 1: we've gotten from you all over the months since our

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Speaker 1: last episode that it isn't going to make it in.

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Speaker 1: Please don't take that as an insult, but we we

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Speaker 1: thought we'd pick some messages coming in in the past

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Speaker 1: month or so from some recent episodes and and read

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Speaker 1: them back to you, share with you what you've shared

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Speaker 1: with us. Right, and so we have to introduce once

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Speaker 1: more our mail bought Carney, who has emerged once more

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Speaker 1: from his ubiliette, to to share the mail with us

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Speaker 1: so that we may share it with you. That might

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Speaker 1: explain why we've been told recently on Facebook that all

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Speaker 1: of our episodes are very dark and about what somebody

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Speaker 1: I think though that it's because Carney is coming out

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Speaker 1: of a Nubian I think that person who said everything

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Speaker 1: we we did was evil was confusing what we post

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Speaker 1: on Facebook with our actual episodes. So what we post

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Speaker 1: on Facebook is evil? No, I'm not sure of that either,

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Speaker 1: but I think they were saying, like, you keep posting

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Speaker 1: stuff about torture, and well, you know, depends on it's

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Speaker 1: in the eye of the beholder, man. We cover a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of ground and uh and in

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Speaker 1: doing so, we we touch on a lot of the

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Speaker 1: darker aspects of reality and human nature. But we also

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Speaker 1: cover a lot of pretty fun and uh off kilter stuff,

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Speaker 1: I think. But also as we will as as we

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Speaker 1: will discuss in this episode, many animals thrive in darkness,

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Speaker 1: So I think we should get right into it. If

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Speaker 1: you guys have no objection, let's do it. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: Carney is now spitting out an email that comes to us.

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Speaker 1: We're actually going to get into a few about the

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Speaker 1: Uncanny Valley episodes that Robert and I did. So this

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Speaker 1: first one is from our listener, Vicky, and Vicky says, Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: love your show. Half the time that I listen. I've

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Speaker 1: never heard of the topics, but they're always really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Vicky. Vicky says, I just finished the episodes

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Speaker 1: on the Uncanny Valley, and that's, of course where we

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Speaker 1: talked about this concept in robotics and c g I

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Speaker 1: a character animation where the original understanding of it is

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Speaker 1: as characters become more realistically human, as they look more

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Speaker 1: and more like a real human, that be actually become

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Speaker 1: more disturbing when they get close to the finish line. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so we discussed how that might actually be too simple,

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Speaker 1: how the evidence for and against that existing other ways

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Speaker 1: of interpreting it, And we discussed what happens when you

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Speaker 1: go beyond the Uncanny Valley, what happens when you can

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Speaker 1: create c g I characters that are so good they're

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Speaker 1: indistinguishable from real humans Stepford Wives? Is that c g

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Speaker 1: I characters or robots? Okay, yeah, but there wasn't. There's

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Speaker 1: certainly an uncanny nous to them intended once they have

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Speaker 1: been turned into robots. Totally. So anyway, Vicky says, I'm

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Speaker 1: a Star Wars fan, but not obsessively. Ask me about

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Speaker 1: Star Trek. I know tons about that. Oh boy, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know that Peter Cushing was deceased or that they

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Speaker 1: used technology to recreate his character here. She's referring to,

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Speaker 1: of course, in Rogue one, the character of Grand mof Tarkan,

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Speaker 1: who was played by Peter Cushing, who is now deceased.

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Speaker 1: They brought him back from the dead using the powers

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Speaker 1: of c G I. Uh but but Vicky says, I

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Speaker 1: thought they did some anti aging technology magic on him.

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Speaker 1: Obviously at the ending I knew something was up. Uh.

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Speaker 1: My question is about possible ethical issues and using this technology,

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Speaker 1: Hollywood can make any actor perform in any movie, and

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Speaker 1: if they're deceased, they could be putting these actors into

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Speaker 1: movies they would not be a part of. For example,

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Speaker 1: before they had agreed to kill off Hans Solo to

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Speaker 1: persuade grumpy Harrison Ford to be in The Force Awakens,

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Speaker 1: they could have used this technology to put him into

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Speaker 1: twenty seven more Star Wars movies. And even if they

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Speaker 1: couldn't get away with it while he was alive, who

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Speaker 1: would stop them from doing it once he passed. As

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Speaker 1: amazing as this technology is, I think it has kind

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Speaker 1: of bizarre and questionable implications. What are your thoughts? Again?

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Speaker 1: Love the show, keep up the great work. Well, thank

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Speaker 1: you very much, Vicky. And this is a big question. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's it's in fact not just theoretical about the future.

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Speaker 1: I mean that there have already been uses of actors

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Speaker 1: after they died. Apart from Peter Cushing, I think that

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Speaker 1: wasn't There's some commercial a while back that used Fred

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Speaker 1: ash Stare or something like that. And yeah, I do

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Speaker 1: think this is a big question. Now. On one hand,

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Speaker 1: you could say, well, once you're a public figure, once

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Speaker 1: you're in the public domain, people are going to be

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Speaker 1: calling upon your likeness without your consent all the time.

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Speaker 1: For example, fan fiction can be written about you personally

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Speaker 1: or about characters you played, and you have no control

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Speaker 1: of that whatsoever. Right, and then there's of course the

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Speaker 1: right of parity, yeah as well. But but but then

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Speaker 1: when you get down to say a character like Elvis Presley,

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Speaker 1: It's one thing to have parody related to to representations

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Speaker 1: of Elvis, but his estate is so locked down. You're

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Speaker 1: you're only going to see if there's c g I

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Speaker 1: Elvis is around, like official c g I Elvis is,

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Speaker 1: you can you can be pretty sure those are going

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Speaker 1: to be uh, you know, officially authorized by the estate.

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Speaker 1: It's just that not everybody's a state uh is as

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Speaker 1: buckled down or will be as buckled down as the

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Speaker 1: press ley Est state. Yeah. I mean, I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys covered this in the

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Speaker 1: episode or not, but I'm pretty sure Peter Cushing's a

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Speaker 1: state gave the legal go ahead for that to be done.

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Speaker 1: R Yeah, they did so. I mean, what we're asking

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Speaker 1: here really is a question of like actor contracts or

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Speaker 1: really any public figure contracts. We we should really look

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Speaker 1: at our contracts, guys, well, whether or not people can

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Speaker 1: bring us back from the dead. No, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think the question is like, should this be like what

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Speaker 1: are what are your rights to your likeness? If it

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Speaker 1: is something that you have it's not like footage that

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Speaker 1: you shot being there in person, but somebody completely recreating

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Speaker 1: your likeness from the ground up, should you be able

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Speaker 1: to I mean, how much rights do you have over

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Speaker 1: somebody drawing a picture of you? And is a c

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Speaker 1: g I simulation of you that's indistinguishable from real just

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Speaker 1: an advanced version of somebody drawing a picture of you.

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Speaker 1: One of the interesting things about this is that is

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Speaker 1: we're considering this, We're we're saying, all right, your likeness

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Speaker 1: will digitally, uh continue on after you were dead and

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Speaker 1: you can have certain terms and legal uh contracts that

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Speaker 1: represent what your wills and wishes would be. In a sense,

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Speaker 1: you're beginning to create a program for your identity. You're

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Speaker 1: beginning to create a digital version of your will to

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Speaker 1: live on with the digital version of your appearance. And

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Speaker 1: so we're kind of seeing like a form of digital

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Speaker 1: immortality that emerges out of the need and the like

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Speaker 1: the commercial application of your likeness and the desire to

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Speaker 1: control it after death. That's interesting. Yeah, So, like you're saying,

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Speaker 1: if there are high quality digital simulations of people who

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Speaker 1: have died, you could maybe have a situation where you

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Speaker 1: write a will that says I would agree to having

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Speaker 1: high quality digital simulations of me do X, Y and Z,

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Speaker 1: but they can't do a B and C. So you'd

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Speaker 1: almost be you'd be like creating an idealized version of

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Speaker 1: you that lives on. That's sort of what you're saying. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: kind of almost like a limited ghost of yourself, but

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Speaker 1: it's a ghost that's not concerned with with haunting individuals,

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Speaker 1: but rather just one that's interested in just tending to

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Speaker 1: your reputation. After that, I will only be featured in

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Speaker 1: baked beans commercials. Okay, well, interesting thoughts. Thanks Vicky. Should

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Speaker 1: we look at another one from the Uncanny Valley episode?

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Speaker 1: I know we got some correspondence from our frequent listener

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Speaker 1: Peter right. Oh yeah, Peter cron Of or p K

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Speaker 1: of King de Luxe Records. He is a long time

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Speaker 1: friend of the show and writes him quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: Uh And he wrote in and shaired quite a bit

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Speaker 1: on the Uncanny Valley because he's, among other things he's

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Speaker 1: involved in in virtual reality interests in the creation of

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Speaker 1: a virtual reality space station. The my understanding is is

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Speaker 1: going to be like a uh space for art and

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Speaker 1: performance in the digital realm. It's not going to be

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Speaker 1: like that ship and event horizon. I don't know, it

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Speaker 1: might be what is that but performance art. We'll actually

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Speaker 1: get into an example of that in a bet. But

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Speaker 1: Peter wrote in and said, great episodes on the Uncanny Valley.

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Speaker 1: It's one of my biggest interest as trying to help

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Speaker 1: create characters and avatars in virtual reality involves a lot

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Speaker 1: of playing around with these ideas, and for me it's

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Speaker 1: a very real thing, not just with humans, but I

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Speaker 1: feel like there's an effect like this when you get

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Speaker 1: close to anything, This sort of mismatch, as you guys mentioned,

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Speaker 1: So he's saying there's an uncanny valley not just for

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Speaker 1: human faces, but for likeness toward reality in any domain. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he says, although the effect is stronger with humans because

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Speaker 1: we're so intimately familiar with faces, but also, as mentioned,

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Speaker 1: you can get used to it kind of. Although being

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Speaker 1: in a three D space in VR with an avatar

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Speaker 1: feels different to the brain than seeing it from the outside,

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Speaker 1: which was also brought up. I believe, I think you

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Speaker 1: said being there in person, and that's what it feels like.

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Speaker 1: In VR. You have a more emotional connection with the

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Speaker 1: character and that can override some of the uncanny nous

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Speaker 1: I believe, because your resources are focused on their emotional state. However,

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Speaker 1: it can also exaggerate the awkwardness I found, so that's

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Speaker 1: sort of mitigating against There was one author we talked

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Speaker 1: about who wrote an article saying, you know, I had

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Speaker 1: looked at some humanoid robots on video and thought that

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Speaker 1: they were really creepy. I had the uncanny Valley effect,

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Speaker 1: but then when I went and saw those robots in person,

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Speaker 1: they didn't bother me. And other people attest that you

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Speaker 1: can get used to things that cause the uncanny Valley

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Speaker 1: effect at first, But it sounds like Peter sort of

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Speaker 1: weighing in on both sides of that. Yes, I believe

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Speaker 1: so Marvel movies are an example of the uncanny Valley.

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Speaker 1: In another way, I think I don't find the newest

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Speaker 1: hulk creepy per se, but it looks worse than some

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Speaker 1: older hulks more c G I, despite the amount of

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Speaker 1: work and technology that I'm sure went into it, as

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Speaker 1: it gets closer to imitating muscle movements and facial expressions,

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Speaker 1: it looks worse and worse. Although I'm positive will get

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Speaker 1: over this hump, at which point we'll have to worry

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Speaker 1: about stuff like, like you discussed any episode applying expression

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Speaker 1: to video, not just to make faulty evidence, but things

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Speaker 1: like playing for witnesses re enactments that rewrite their brains,

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Speaker 1: whether they like it or not, implanting new memories. That's

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Speaker 1: really interesting. Uh So, I sort of agree with Peter

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Speaker 1: about how, in a lot of cases, the as c

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Speaker 1: G I gets better, it's somehow does sort of look worse. Uh,

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Speaker 1: not just in the Uncanny Valley sense, but also in

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Speaker 1: the sense of like adding more details to things makes

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Speaker 1: it look more unreal somehow. You remember the Transformers movies,

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Speaker 1: when like the Transformers to be transforming and they'd have

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Speaker 1: all these moving parts. They'd say, okay, let's have eight

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Speaker 1: million moving screws and widgets and stuff on Optimus Prime

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Speaker 1: as he transforms through this freeway battle scene, and it

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Speaker 1: just looks so busy. It looks unreal. It looks crappy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you want to go back to Tarkin. When I

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Speaker 1: find me watch Rogue One, which was just a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks ago, he didn't really bother me as much,

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Speaker 1: like he was over articulated, like he was a puppet

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Speaker 1: say the c G I Tarkan in Rogue one had

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Speaker 1: done by these animators. It's very difficult, but he had

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Speaker 1: so much texture on his face. It was too much texture. Also,

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Speaker 1: when you think about Peter Cushing, right, like the movies

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Speaker 1: Peter Cushing is sort of blurrier than rogue one's memory

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Speaker 1: to imagine an HD Peter Cushing is like trying to

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Speaker 1: imagine a color. Charlie Chaplain, Yeah, Christian, you got an email. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We did uh an episode on the Doomsday Clock a

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Speaker 1: Is calculated by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, and we

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Speaker 1: what it all goes into that that brings us closer

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Speaker 1: to the theoretical Midnight on the clock. And in the episode,

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Speaker 1: T shirt that somebody was wearing on an airplane. It

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Speaker 1: was a Lotus flower with two machine guns in it,

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Speaker 1: and on it. It said piece through Superior firepower and

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Speaker 1: what I When I looked it up, it said it

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Speaker 1: had come from Aliens and I wasn't aware of that.

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Speaker 1: So our a listener, Rich wrote into us about this.

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Speaker 1: Actually we had multiple people wrote into us about it,

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Speaker 1: but Riches really hits something on the head here. Apparently

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Speaker 1: it is a phrase that comes through the American millitary

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Speaker 1: from well before Aliens. He says, I just finished the

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Speaker 1: Doomsday Clock episode. It's another great podcast. I've got three comments. First,

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Speaker 1: piece through Superior Firepower is older than Aliens. I was

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Speaker 1: in the U. S Air Force in nineteen seventy nine

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Speaker 1: and that phrase was the unofficial slogan of the Strategic

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Speaker 1: Air Command or s a C. I assumed because they

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Speaker 1: controlled a lot of the nukes and conventional bombs. I've

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Speaker 1: that slogan. I don't know how old the phrases, but

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Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt speaks softly but carry a big stick was similar.

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Speaker 1: So we I was kind of wondering, like where this

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Speaker 1: had come from? Uh, And it seemed at the time

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Speaker 1: that it was something that was was written for the movie.

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Speaker 1: It was on one of the characters uniforms, but clearly

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Speaker 1: it has origins in the real world. Then he addresses

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Speaker 1: the actual doomsday clock, and he says the fear of

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Speaker 1: nuclear annihilation, regarding that I was born in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: and I think I saw fallout shelter signs in my

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Speaker 1: elementary school. However, we never had drills of hiding under

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Speaker 1: our wooden desks like our older siblings. I heard those stories,

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Speaker 1: and while I was concerned with nuclear annihilation a bit

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Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties, I always assumed the fifties

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Speaker 1: were worse, so I didn't worry about it too much

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Speaker 1: throughout my life. This is something Robert and I talked

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Speaker 1: about in the episode. Us being children of the eighties,

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Speaker 1: the sort of specter of the Cold War was always

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Speaker 1: hanging over us as little kids. But uh, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like what Riches proposing is that maybe it was worse

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Speaker 1: than the fifties. And I can imagine too, if that's

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Speaker 1: you know, you're a decade after the war, there's probably

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Speaker 1: a lot of scares in the air about potential warfare.

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Speaker 1: And then his third comment is about climate change, which

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Speaker 1: so one of the things we learned in that episode

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Speaker 1: was that they calculate climate change as a part of

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Speaker 1: moving the doomsday clock, even though originally it was mainly

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Speaker 1: based on nuclear weapons. So he says climate change should

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Speaker 1: be included in the doomsday clock along with any other

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Speaker 1: probability of ending the world, and then he ends it

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Speaker 1: with saying asteroids question mark, maybe we should take a

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Speaker 1: look more rich No, something we don't I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Oh. I think what he means is

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Speaker 1: the the apocalypse that comes when we all get locked

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Speaker 1: into playing asteroids so much that we stopped eating and breeding. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I really want to thank him for clarifying the thing

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Speaker 1: about the piece through superior firepower, because I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what that was. And when I saw it, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it was probably maybe a month

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Speaker 1: after the election, and I was just like, well, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of freaked me out a little bit. But

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Speaker 1: you know, apparently that's just my sensitivity. This is something

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Speaker 1: that goes back a good forty years. Well interpreted his

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Speaker 1: point about asteroids being, of course that at the risk

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Speaker 1: of near Earth objects hitting the Earth, which is something

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Speaker 1: I would I always think about this that pretty much

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Speaker 1: anytime I look up into the sky. But since my

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Speaker 1: son is he's about five now, and he's super into dinosaurs,

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Speaker 1: so he's he's I'll often ask not only about dinosaurs,

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Speaker 1: but about uh, the risk of meteors and meteorites and

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Speaker 1: comets and asteroids. You know, ask why this happened and

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Speaker 1: will it happen again? And the answers that you have

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Speaker 1: to give are not always that reassuring. It's kind of like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, for the most part, we keep track of

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Speaker 1: it the you know, we we have we have organizations

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Speaker 1: that watch the skies and and he says, well, what

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Speaker 1: if one's gonna hit the earth? Was so, well, we

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Speaker 1: have a few different plans in place that might do

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Speaker 1: the trick if we catch it early enough. But it's

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Speaker 1: not quite it's not quite as reassuring an answer as

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Speaker 1: I would like to give. Sitting Down for a double

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Speaker 1: feature of Deep Impact and Armageddon. Oh man, which of

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Speaker 1: those movies is worse? That's a good question. That's an

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Speaker 1: episode for another day. Well, I mean, what you should

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Speaker 1: I think the way you should frame it to your

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Speaker 1: child is well, statistically, on a time scale of X

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Speaker 1: number of years, we know that it will happen again. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing that takes the uncertainty just

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Speaker 1: you know, it's some it's a dice roll. Sometime in

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Speaker 1: the next hundred thousand years, there's going to be a

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Speaker 1: large impact. It's gonna happen. Will we be prepared for it,

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Speaker 1: Will we have the the collective will that the collective

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Speaker 1: effort in place to deal with it? And you know,

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Speaker 1: there are times where I think, yeah, we're totally we're

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Speaker 1: getting there. Well, we'll totally be there, And in other

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Speaker 1: times where I think, now it's gonna it's gonna lose

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Speaker 1: its importance to people. Uh, people are gonna stop watching

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Speaker 1: the skies. They're gonna be busy, you know, staring into

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Speaker 1: each other's hearts like we always do. We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: arguing about stuff on Twitter when it's looming. Here's my

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Speaker 1: cynical worldview. We can't even get the roads to work

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Speaker 1: right here in Atlanta. How are we gonna take care

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Speaker 1: of any falling objects from the sky. The highways collapsed

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Speaker 1: twice in the last three weeks. Well I think one

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Speaker 1: of them was technically a buckling, which is even better. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're really taking care of our infrastructure. Okay, you guys

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Speaker 1: ready for another one. Let's do it. Here we got

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Speaker 1: some feedback on our Chinese immortality episode Robert and I

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Speaker 1: did this. We were discussing various Chinese mythical figures, including

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Speaker 1: one who attained this state of immortality or near immortality,

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Speaker 1: but lived in an altered state which entailed a diet

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Speaker 1: of only air and do and an apparent loss of

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Speaker 1: some male sex characteristics. Now in the episode, I used

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Speaker 1: this as a springboard to talk about some of the

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Speaker 1: studies that have suggested a connection between longevity. First of all,

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Speaker 1: between longevity and caloric restriction and animals, and second between

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Speaker 1: longevity and castration and men. And our listener Pat wrote

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Speaker 1: in with a response about the alleged benefits of castration.

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Speaker 1: So Pat says, Dear Robert and Joe, First of all,

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Speaker 1: love your work and everything you guys do. Your podcast

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Speaker 1: has been a staple of mind for quite some time,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate all the research and critical analysis that

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Speaker 1: goes into every episode. Please read this email from a

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Speaker 1: constructive view rather than as a critique of the wonderful

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Speaker 1: work you guys do on the podcast and subsequent publication.

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Speaker 1: Well you're you're too kind, Pat, Before you set us

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Speaker 1: up to swat aston Now I'm instantly flinchtioned because I

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Speaker 1: know he's going to come out. Okay, So two notes

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Speaker 1: regarding the recent podcast on Chinese immortality, Elixirs and Enlightened Beings,

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Speaker 1: both stemming from my research regarding male hypogonadism induced by

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Speaker 1: androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer treatment, of which I'd

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Speaker 1: be happy to discuss further if interested. Um, although the

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Speaker 1: two studies you discussed, and those were Hamilton's, Hamilton's and

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Speaker 1: Gordon and men at All purported the castration of men

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Speaker 1: increased life expectancy, both are quite questionable in terms of methodology.

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Speaker 1: Hamilton's and Gordon's paper is in a population that in

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Speaker 1: no way can be compared to the broader population sample.

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Speaker 1: That population, by the way in Hamilton's and Gordon's paper

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Speaker 1: was institutionalized men. Uh And then second pat says men

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Speaker 1: at All study relies on a methodological process I cannot

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Speaker 1: believe past peer review in a scientific journal. And by

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Speaker 1: this he's referring to relying on historical records of unix

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Speaker 1: life expectancy from the seventeen hundreds. Uh. So hat continues,

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Speaker 1: It's undoubted, undoubtedly confounded by the time period in which

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Speaker 1: the data was observed, Whilst fascinating, neither provide what I

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Speaker 1: would consider robust evidence that this phenomenon is presented in men.

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Speaker 1: In fact, evidence suggests the opposite, In that hypogonadle men

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Speaker 1: are at greater risk of mortality. For further reading, see

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Speaker 1: the following and Pat lists several papers that seemed to

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Speaker 1: show an association between increased mortality and UH and loss

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Speaker 1: of male sex characteristics. Pat continues, I appreciate there's a

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Speaker 1: large amount of heterogeneity amongst trials. However, claiming that men

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Speaker 1: can benefit from castration or being quote less manly is oversimplified,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, not in line with current current scientific knowledge. UH,

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Speaker 1: and I would I would say, well, I would certainly

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Speaker 1: agree with pat on that while the studies we cited

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Speaker 1: are real, I hope it came through that the thread

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Speaker 1: connecting them to the topic of the episode was primarily

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Speaker 1: a humorous one because an advocating for people to go

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Speaker 1: out and become you know, I was advocating castration is

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Speaker 1: a proven life extension technique. However, Various is your favorite

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Speaker 1: character on Game of Thrones, right, Various is a good character. Actually,

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Speaker 1: he's he's surprising. I like him yeah, I think if anything,

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Speaker 1: we were promoting uh dallast alchemy, that's a lifestyle choice.

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Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, the the elixirs are where it's really

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Speaker 1: the castration is that that's only a side product. However,

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Speaker 1: I do want to say, despite that, I really do

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Speaker 1: appreciate Pat's note about the potential methodological flaws in the

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Speaker 1: two studies I did mention in the episode. I'd take

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Speaker 1: both of those points pretty strongly. I think those are

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Speaker 1: good things to consider. Uh And also for pointing out

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Speaker 1: the studies that are going in the other direction, saying

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Speaker 1: there might be a connection between hypogonadism and connection to mortality.

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Speaker 1: So to reinforce, no matter how much you think you

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Speaker 1: want more life if you are male, self castration is

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Speaker 1: not a scientifically proven way to get it. Remind me again,

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Speaker 1: what are the name of crab? Gonads? Go nopods go

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Speaker 1: no pods. That's the crab equivalent of a penis. But

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Speaker 1: back to Pat's email, this is something we've discussed off

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Speaker 1: air a lot. Back to pods, Pats email, No came up.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think so. Back to pats email. Another point,

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Speaker 1: a very minor one, but you noted that one study

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Speaker 1: I think it was the second one in which you

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Speaker 1: discuss monkeys and caloric restriction. Observed a quote very slight increase,

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Speaker 1: albeit not statistically significant. Although you don't overly run with

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Speaker 1: this finding, it would generally be stated as finding no

427
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: difference rather than a very slight, non significant increase. This

428
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: one might be me being a little picky, but I

429
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: know I've been pulled up on this one by supervisors

430
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: and pure view in the past, so I ensure I

431
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: only mentioned direction when statistics are there to support. And

432
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: Pat's right about this. I mean generally in science, if

433
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 1: you see an increase but it doesn't meet the statistical threshold,

434
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: it means, you know, this is possibly within the margin

435
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: of error, so you you shouldn't really cite that as

436
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: a meaningful increase. And I don't think we did try

437
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: to cite it as a meaningful increase. It just you know,

438
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: it's it's But but what Pat saying is if the

439
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: increase is not statistically significant, it's not even worth mentioning

440
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: that there was an increase, which you can make that argument. Finally,

441
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: Pat mentioned a book we might be interested in, known

442
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: as The Emperor of All Maladies by said Arthur mccergee

443
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: and I took a look at this. It does look

444
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: very interesting, so I want to check it out. But

445
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: it's it's about cancer. Uh. And Pat suggests potentially doing

446
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: an episode on cancer treatments in the future, wonders if

447
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: his email will end up on a future mail Bot episode. Well,

448
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: here we go. I would recommend going back and listening

449
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: to our second episode about m d m A we

450
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: talk a lot as being cancer treatment possibility. Yeah. Finally,

451
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: on another follow up email, Pat says that he enjoyed

452
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: our episode about radiation Life after Radiation, including the stuff

453
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: about the fungus that might be an eater of rad's.

454
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the eater of Rad's episode. This is the

455
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: one where we talked a little bit about Godzilla, uh,

456
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: and then a lot about Chernobyl like. It was one

457
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: of these where we we we went in thinking that

458
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: Godzilla would be more of the hook, but the episode

459
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: was far more serious, so we ended up backing off

460
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: from the a lot of the Godzilla branding on that one.

461
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: I think we ended up talking a decent amount about

462
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: Godzilla in the Facebook live we did. Did you guys

463
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: say let them fight? No, we did not, just a

464
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: missed opportunity. Which one is that from that's from the

465
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: latest Godzilla movie, the latest American Gonzilla movie and watah,

466
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: yes nice. Alright, we you know, we're gonna take a

467
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: quick break and when we come back, we have some

468
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: more listener mail related to episodes that we've covered in

469
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: the past, some in the distant past. Alright, we're back.

470
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: So I wanted to share an email here. This was

471
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: an interesting one because it's uh, someone who has has

472
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: listened to a lot of the back catalog as well.

473
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: And uh, her name is Ainslie. She wrote in on

474
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: Facebook and she in about the mixology episode that Joe

475
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: and I did together. Uh, and she had some tidbits

476
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: about cannabis flavored vodka. Yeah. But she also referred to

477
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: an older episode, uh that that touched on suspension bondage,

478
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: the idea of you know, suspending oneself on hooks placed

479
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: in the flesh, and uh, this was from from years back.

480
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: But she said that that in it, we we kind

481
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: of were doubtful, the hosts were kind of doubtful that

482
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: you could have just a single hook in a person

483
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: and serving as the suspension, that you would need to

484
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: have more than one. But she says Oh no, you can.

485
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: You can suspend on just one so really yeah, So

486
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: I at this point I was like sold Jim Rose

487
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: Circus stuff over. Yeah, indeed. And so at this point

488
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: I realized, Oh, well, she's she has some experience in this.

489
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm gonna ask her about it. I would love

490
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: to hear, you know, straight from someone who's engaged in

491
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: suspension work. You know what it consists of. And she responded,

492
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: so this is what she said. Yes, I've been a

493
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: practitioner for a handful of years now and have been

494
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: a afforded a number of opportunities to perform publicly with

495
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: some really fantastic people. I love performing. I love the

496
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: shock factor and the energy. I love the confused looks

497
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: of awe and disgust from the crowd. But when I

498
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: took my first hooks, I was about nineteen, full of

499
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: angst and rage. I wanted to feel something intense, anything

500
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: at all. But what happened changed my life forever. Suspending

501
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: for that first time was indescribable. It was like like

502
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: I had relaxed my tense muscles for the first time

503
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: in my life, like I had overcome my mind and

504
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: shrugged off the long accustomed sticky sense of self doubt.

505
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: Really I can't find the words, but I fell in love.

506
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: I was allowed to feel and bleed and openly respect

507
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: the process of each It was a whole new world

508
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: for me. Suspension became my life anyway. I always sent

509
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: a few pictures of some of my favorite flesh suspensions

510
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: and flesh polls, and I'll point you in the direction

511
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: of suspension dot org. Hopefully they're still running their design.

512
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: Hook Life links should be at the bottom of the homepage.

513
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: Hook Life features some beautifully written firsthand accounts and photograph

514
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: and she also recommends a book titled Learning to Fly

515
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: Cool that actually sounds like my experience with a sensory

516
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: deprivation tank, because it was very similar that like the

517
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: floating sensation. They actually tell you this before you you

518
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: get in them, but like your muscles start to relax

519
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: so much that you realize that there's like you're feeling

520
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: muscles for the first time that you didn't really know

521
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: we're there. It's pretty fascinating. I couldn't imagine that you

522
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: would get the same experience from suspension, but that sounds

523
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: really cool. Yeah, And I said, uh, suspension bondage earlier.

524
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: I think the more correct terms just hook suspension but

525
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: cut any rate, or just suspension in general. So that

526
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: was that was my misstep there. But I found this

527
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: really interesting to hear from from her, and she sent

528
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: some pictures of showing her engaging and suspension, and uh, yeah,

529
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: it's it's one of these things where you see pictures

530
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: of it or footage, and especially if it's on TV,

531
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: it's really played up for the shock value, and you

532
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have enough in site into how this person

533
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: is interacting with the experience, like what the role is

534
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: is it? You know, how how does pain factor into it?

535
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,239
Speaker 1: Is it pleasure? For like what's going on here? So

536
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: I really appreciated her words and I thought she expressed

537
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: it rather nicely there. I think for a lot of

538
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: people that might be surprising that some people who do

539
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: this seem to approach it from a kind of performance

540
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: art point of view. I mean, to to be blunt,

541
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would look at that

542
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: and just consider they think it's some kind of sex

543
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: act or something. Well, and also I think like probably

544
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: in pop culture, the go to for this is that

545
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: movie The Cell where oh yeah, the guy who does

546
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: it is like a serial Killer. So yeah, I mean

547
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, most people just assume that it's got

548
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: negative connotations or or just sexual connotations to it. But anyway, yeah,

549
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: really interesting. So it just goes to show again that

550
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: we have we have such great fans out there, and

551
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: and some of them are engaged in so many interesting areas,

552
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: be it's something at the academic or you know, performance oriented,

553
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: or or something experiential that is uh, you know, beyond

554
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: what what we generally have the scope to relate to directly. Here,

555
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: Hell raiser is in the best way. Okay. So I

556
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: wanted to look at a couple that came in about

557
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: the episode Robert and I did about the London underground mosquito.

558
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: So in that episode, one of the things I mentioned

559
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: was that I was wanting to come across an animal

560
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: that was a cave dwelling albino bird. Wouldn't that be great?

561
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: Like an albino vulture with red eyes that lives exclusively

562
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: underground be terrifying? And Laura writes in about this, Laura says, Hi, guys,

563
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: in the podcast on the London underground mosquitoes, you said

564
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: in passing it would be cool if an underground adapted

565
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: bird species arose. Whilst not quite an albino man, a

566
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: lot of our listeners right in with whilst good grammar

567
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: better grammar than I do, I think that just indicates

568
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: a British listenership. But wilst not quite an albino red

569
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: eyed vulture, the oil bird is adapted to spending much

570
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: of their lives and caves. The avian answer to the

571
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: fruit bat. They do leave the cave at night to

572
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: find and eat fruits, but spend the rest of the

573
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: time in caves as large colonies as an adaptation to

574
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: their dark abode. They echo locate like bats, but in

575
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: the audible range for humans, so their caves must be

576
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: very loud. They also have good night vision and bristles

577
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: on the face for navigation. Caves are rarely rich enough

578
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: in small mammals lizards are carrying for carnivorous birds to

579
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: specialize in this food source only will still retaining wings.

580
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: Flightless birds tend to live in rich forest floors or

581
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: places where running helps, so it's unlikely that your dream

582
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: of an albino vulture will ever become an evolutionary reality. Well,

583
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: thank you Laura for writing this in because I looked

584
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: up oil birds and these things are cool. They have

585
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: Wilfred Brimley mustaches like Cocoon Wilfred Brimley or Ewok movie

586
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: Wilford Brimley. I've never seen Cocoon or the e Walk

587
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: movie all the way through. I'm in a bad what

588
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: did you? What did you back out on thee I

589
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: think the only parts of the e Walk movies I've

590
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: seen in the parts you made me watch for trailer talk.

591
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: So that was something about giant spiders, and the giant

592
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: spiders are in the first one. Wilford Brimley's in the second,

593
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: and that's the one. It's got works in it and

594
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: evil which e Walk's child massacre. Yeah, oh no, that's horrible.

595
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: That's how it begins. Horrible. Yea. Anyway, so yeah, Laura

596
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: writes in about oilbirds. You listening at home, look up

597
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: an oilbird. This is a good thing to look up.

598
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: They've got really funny mustaches and apparently all of these

599
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: crazy traits Somewhat what I was asking for, but not

600
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: quite there to be an albino monster. Hey, at least

601
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: Nature's meeting me halfway on this one. But do you

602
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: mind if I take another quick look at an email

603
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: we got about the London Underground Mosquito episode if Carney

604
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: will allow it. Yes, looks like Carney has given the

605
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: green light. So this one comes from our listener, David. Hi, guys,

606
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: I've recently started into your podcast and have been enjoying

607
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: your addition to my podcast library. I particularly liked a

608
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: recent episode far Below the London Underground Mosquito and had

609
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: a comment and a super cool and relevant link to share. First,

610
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: the comment from a biologist perspective, one pretty well versed

611
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: in both evolution and entomology. It was kind of funny

612
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: to hear you initially asked the question, what if a

613
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: species becomes trapped in the underworld, can it become a

614
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: different species altogether, to which the answer is not just yes,

615
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: it's possible, but assuming the species actually survives and doesn't

616
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: just die out, the answer becomes necessarily yes. Mutation and

617
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: natural selection virtually guarantee that a persisting segregated population will

618
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: become a different species than its original species given enough generations.

619
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: Even some of the most successful ancient forms like dragonflies

620
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: and sharks, have evolved and diversify since their ancient fossilized ancestors,

621
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: and those were very successful in stable forms not trapped

622
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: in a particular habitat. Evolution is only accelerated by having

623
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: a drastically different new habitat and the presence of a

624
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: tantalizing new man made niche begs for something to fill it.

625
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 1: Insects are like tiny evolution machines, especially with those rapid

626
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: reproductive cycles. It is not surprising that an underground population

627
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: of subway mosquitoes is diverging into a new species. It

628
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: just makes sense. Second, given the topic of underworld segregation

629
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: making weird new species, you have to read this BBC

630
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: article if you haven't, about a Romanian cave filled with

631
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: a bizarre, unique invertebrate ecosystem after being isolated from the

632
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: surface world for five point five million years. Consider it

633
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: the London underground on steroids, with ample amounts of time

634
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: for evolution to occur. Any who, you might not have

635
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: finished reading this. I did, but I wanted to pass

636
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 1: it along anyways, and there's always the possibility of not

637
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: being ignored. Hey, don't sell yourself short, David, this was

638
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: a good email. He ends by saying, stay science, e David.

639
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: I really appreciate this email. I went and I read

640
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: the BBC article on the Movile cave in Romania, which

641
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: is fascinating. Have you guys read anything about this? No? No, oh,

642
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: you should check this out. It is so cool. So

643
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: it's a cave system sealed off from the surface until

644
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: it was broken into by some Soviet scientists in the

645
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, I think maybe nine seventies. It hasn't been

646
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: open to the surface all that long. And it's toxic

647
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 1: in there. It's full of gases, full of carbon dioxide

648
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: and a sulfitic environment. And there are these organisms down

649
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: there that are these albino translucent scorpions and spiders and leeches,

650
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: and there are these bacterial mats that float on the

651
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: surface of the water in the cave that are described

652
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: as being like wet tissue paper. You can sort of

653
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: pick them up and peel them apart, all made of bacteria.

654
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: This sounds awful. That sounds like the worst vacation in

655
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: the world. This sounds like your home, Christian. Yeah, I

656
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know your house. I mean, I

657
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: mean it sounds it sounds fitting to your personality. Come on,

658
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: it's dark, it's got scorpions and spiders in it, and

659
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: you can swim and wet tissue paper water scorpions. Yeah,

660
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: and so it's and it's totally dark down there, and

661
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: it's it sounds so cool, you should you should go

662
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: look this up. It's called the Movile Cave in Romania.

663
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: Really really worth a look. But also I wanted to

664
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: comment on what David was saying about the the our surprise,

665
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: or at least our questioning of the evolution of the

666
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: new species of mosquito in the London underground. One of

667
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: the things that's really interesting to me is that you

668
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: could have a new species evolve when there's not an

669
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: impenetrable barrier. You know, it's not like an island chain

670
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: that's separated and nothing's really going back and forth. You

671
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: can always iagine that mosquitoes should be sort of coming

672
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: up and going back down into the London underground. Right.

673
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: There are openings, there are doors, there are events, there

674
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: are shafts. So I sort of wonder why didn't cross

675
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: breeding can continue to occur enough to to keep this

676
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: from really diverging. But um, yeah, I guess there must

677
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: be a good reason. It's because scorpions can't mate with

678
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: tissue paper. So guys, I'm looking over at Carney Carney

679
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: is starting to smoke a little bit. We need to

680
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: let him cool down. So we're gonna take another quick break,

681
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: and when we come back, we're gonna jump right back

682
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: into the mail. All right, we have returned, you're ready

683
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: to jump into the mail. We So I got a

684
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: piece here that is about our episode on flesh bound books.

685
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: We did a book an episode called Books of Flesh

686
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: Anthropodermic Biblio Peggy. This is about libraries that claimed that

687
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: they contain books that are bound in human flesh, and

688
00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: so we were looking into like whether or not they

689
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: actually exist or not, and how to scientifically actually categorize

690
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: these books. And we talked about a specific example in

691
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: that episode, and Matt wrote in and he said, I

692
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the episode about the flesh bound books. I

693
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: have been listening for a while now and I love

694
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: the show. Have thought about writing a few times, but

695
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: never had enough to say until now. In this episode,

696
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: you mentioned Junior out of college had a flesh bound

697
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: book that was tested and was really sheep skin. We did. Indeed,

698
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: my grandma worked in that library years ago and is

699
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: still friends with the entire department. So I called her

700
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: and I got her to set up a walkthrough of

701
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: their treasure room. They happen to have a lot of

702
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: amazing books in the treasure room. The person who takes

703
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: care of the treasure was not there when I went in,

704
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: so I wasn't able to see the flesh bound book,

705
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: but I did get to see the rest of the collection,

706
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: which includes a Bible printed in fourteen seventy eight. They

707
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: are a set of the first Bibles printed in America

708
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: in German. Here are some pictures I took, so he

709
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: attached a bunch of photos from this and it's pretty cool.

710
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: The printing press is from the early eighteen hundreds of

711
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: the late seventeen hundreds, and it's a wooden printing press

712
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: that still works. They tested it a few years ago,

713
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: which they said is very difficult to set up. I

714
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: will be going back sometime in the future when they

715
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: find where the flesh bound book is, but it's only

716
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: abound in sheep flesh. But yeah, that's super cool. Thanks

717
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: for sending that in, Matt. I always love when our

718
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: episodes lead to field trips for people. Oh yes, now,

719
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: speaking of trips, I have one here and this comes

720
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: to our listener, shah Hit, who is an economist, and

721
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: he writes in in response to our episode on the

722
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: black Stone of Mecca, which is a really fun episode

723
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: where we talked about the the the history of the

724
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 1: black Stone, both the historical history, the sort of religious history,

725
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: as well as what scientists can at least theorize about

726
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: its cosmic history, right because obviously they can't take it

727
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: to their labs to test it right, and that's not

728
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: gonna happen anytime in the foreseeable future. Uh So, But

729
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: in the said we said, hey, we looked to hear

730
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: from any uh Muslim listeners we have out there who

731
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: might have, you know, their own take on how we

732
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: handled the topic or if they had you seen the stone,

733
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: And we actually heard from a couple of people I

734
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: believe on Twitter who had seen the stone or or

735
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: had a family member who had gone gone on the hodge.

736
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: Uh So, this listener rights and it says a longtime

737
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: listener here, I just wanted to say that I thoroughly

738
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: enjoyed listening to y'all's episode on Alhajir al Haswad. As

739
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: a Muslim. It was really great to hear y'all go

740
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: through the painstaking process of being understanding and I can

741
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: only imagine the difficulty that comes with tackling a religious topic,

742
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: especially on a different religion. As always, I appreciate the

743
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: interesting podcast, especially while at work here where I deal

744
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: with the dryness of economics on a daily basis. If

745
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: you guys may need some insight on the topics of

746
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: Islam or economics, feel free to reach out and I'd

747
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: be more than glad to be of assistance. Please take

748
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: care and have a wonderful day. Well that was really

749
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: great to hear, But I don't think it was two

750
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: painstaking process. I don't know. No, I mean, it's a

751
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: it's it's like any exploration that we we take into,

752
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 1: you know, another cultural or another religion, you know. Certainly,

753
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: I think we always take a great deal of care

754
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: and so that we're understanding it as best we can

755
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 1: while respecting what we can't understand, you know. And it's

756
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: gonna be mindful of the limits of our perspective. Yeah, um,

757
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: and you know we and I think we always approach

758
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: these topics with an enthusiasm and and and a desire

759
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: to understand it as much as possible. Uh So, yeah,

760
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: I don't I'm sure we'll get into some more We've

761
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: certainly cover topics that involve economics from time to time,

762
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: so it's good to have an economist in the rolodex.

763
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: But also I would love to do another topic in

764
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: the future on on something related to Islam, and so

765
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: it'll be nice to have somebody we can potentially throw

766
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: a question out to there. Yeah, so thanks for getting

767
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 1: in touch I had. I've actually got one here that's

768
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: somewhat related to that. Uh, this is another kind of

769
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: feel good listener mail that we received. So Robert and

770
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: I did two episodes in one week that we're a

771
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: little touchy, and we felt like we had to be

772
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: careful about how we presented them. The first one was

773
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: about fertility and ovulation and consumer decision making. We're looking

774
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: at research that was done by a marketing researcher into

775
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: how ovulation affects decision making when it comes to buying

776
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: things and politics, and how companies are taking advantage of

777
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: that by basically using targeting information to try to advertise

778
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: at women who are ovulating. And the same week we

779
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: did our episode on sexpots, where we talked about some

780
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: controversial stuff around sex robots and specifically how they're used

781
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,479
Speaker 1: for for therapy for Surrogates. We received this email from

782
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: Julie and she said, what a pair of episodes this week.

783
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: I typically respond with heaps of anxiety to discussions of

784
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: the topics you all covered. I e. Ovulations, effects on behavior,

785
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: and sex spots. As an ovulator, I fear the possibility

786
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: that people will reduce my own behaviors to my hormone levels,

787
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: and as someone in a female body, I get really

788
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: creepy Crawley when I see sex spots, fearing that they

789
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 1: represent forms of existence to which men wish to reduce

790
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: my person. I'm sure you get it. Point. Being at

791
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: the top of both episodes this week, I was not

792
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: sure I'd make it through anxiety. Headaches commenced pulses raced,

793
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: breathing in shallowed, and yet I pressed on through your

794
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: thought provoking, even handed discussions, and afterward I realized that

795
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: my persistence was because I trust you all, And thanks

796
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: to my trusting you all to present information and a

797
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: carefully considered, intellectually open and humane fashion, I knew you

798
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave me curled up in a blubbering mass of

799
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: feminist anxiety. Thank you. A further note on pairing the

800
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: episodes as a social scientist, I'm used to viewing research

801
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: findings as information, not evil in themselves, but useful insofar

802
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 1: as they're interpreted through a properly critical lens. Cultivate use

803
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: of that lens in the populace, and we can trust

804
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: others to interpret and apply research fairly. Now, thanks to

805
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: the fact that your sex spot episode followed the ovulation

806
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: research episode, I'm beginning to wonder if I can abandon

807
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: my usual pearl clutching response to sex bot technology in

808
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: favor of a similar stance. Technology is an inherently evil

809
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: I must work on trusting its consumers, especially when all

810
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: those therapeutic uses of it are involved. This is fascinating stuff.

811
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: Thanks for bringing me around to it. Awesome. Well, yeah,

812
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: that's it's always well, I mean, it's always great to

813
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: hear that we handled something with the appropriate to of care.

814
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: Like certainly that's what we try to do. And yeah,

815
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: anytime we can we can help somebody look at a

816
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: topic in a slightly different light. I mean, that's that's gold.

817
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of the experience of putting together

818
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 1: the show is that we, at least in my experience,

819
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: I'm always going into a topic thinking I'm more or

820
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: less have a handle on it and then finding some

821
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: some new perspective. Uh that that changes though the way

822
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: I view it more and more lately, I keep coming

823
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: back to the idea that maybe our two word tagline

824
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: should be there's more there always is. That. That's what

825
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: I find out in almost every time we do an episode. Yeah,

826
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, in these two topics, I was genuinely pretty

827
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: nervous about covering them, but I felt like they were

828
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: necessary to cover for. We talked about it in the

829
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: episode as to why, but uh so it's I do

830
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: want to share a story. Like like maybe a week

831
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: after they published, I just happened to be talking to

832
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: some random people and they were asking, hey, well, what's

833
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: your show doing this week? And I said, oh, we're

834
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: talking about sex robots and they went, oh yeah, and

835
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 1: I was like, well, it's actually not like that. It's

836
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's actually like they're used for therapeutic

837
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: purposes to help people and come on broth, Yeah exactly.

838
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: The response and it was like, it's kind of like

839
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: when you look at like Playboy for the letters, Am

840
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: I right? And I was like, no, no, that's not

841
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,959
Speaker 1: And then I like it really hit me. I was like, wow,

842
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: we really did everything we could to not not be that.

843
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: I imagine that is what listeners, like Julie we're fearing,

844
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: you know, that there would just be like these kind

845
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: of like dudes in a spa like slapping each other

846
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: on the back, talk about spots. Wait a minute, what's

847
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: where's the spot? Don't you go to the dude spot?

848
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. Have I been

849
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: locked out of the dude spot? Is this why I

850
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: don't understand dude culture? Carney and I go all the

851
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: time and slap each other on the back. No, But

852
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: like you know, it just made me feel like, oh wow,

853
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: Like I I feel like maybe we really did give

854
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: that the care that was necessary for And then Julie's

855
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: email came in right after that. It really made me

856
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: feel a lot better. All right, well, let's not pat

857
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: ourselves on the back too much. Now we're total scumbags.

858
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: I do like how Carney has that bit of of

859
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: actual human flesh on his back slapping purposes, but it's

860
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: really nice. It gets sweaty, especially in the spot. It

861
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: makes a nice sound like throwing a piece of meat

862
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: down on a cutting board. Yeah, alright, Well to shift

863
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: to another one. We got a couple of emails in

864
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: response to our episode on the science of guessing. Now.

865
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: Robert and I talked about the method of firmi estimation,

866
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: which is a really cool trick you can use to

867
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 1: try to come up with numerical guesses based on very

868
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: little starting information, And this was the topic I thought

869
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: was pretty cool. But we also talked about the idea

870
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: of guessing being a skill, how there are some people

871
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: who are just better at guessing than others. And at

872
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: the end of the episode, one of the things I

873
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: talked about was wondering if there is such a thing

874
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: as as as sort of athleticism of guessing in the

875
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: same way that when you are shooting hoops in basketball,

876
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: you're doing math. You're not consciously doing math, but your

877
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: body is somehow doing maths. You're trying to calculate perfect

878
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: arc trajectories. And I wondered if some people might be

879
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: good at guessing even without knowing tricks like fermi estimation

880
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: or knowing much information. They're just good at doing some

881
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: kind of intuitive, unconscious math that helps them get to

882
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: the right answer more often than other people do. And

883
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: our listener Jonathan writes in about that subject, Jonathan says, Joe,

884
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: you were so close to acknowledging a phenomenon that I

885
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: once wrote about after your excellent episode on P versus

886
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 1: n P. And that was when we did last year.

887
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: If you want to go check it out. This isn't

888
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. No, it's not. It's a different Jonathan this,

889
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: Jonathan writes in fairly often, or at least we've gotten

890
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: several emails from him. What if only our colleagues wrote

891
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: us letters We never knew it the whole time. The

892
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: last person was Julie. That could have been Julie Douglas. Oh,

893
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Letters from our colleagues would contain

894
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: way more complaints about how nasty our desks are. All right, So,

895
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: Jonathan says, uh, this is not currently a fashionable concept,

896
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: But how about just as a hypothesis to consider it?

897
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 1: There exists in higher animals, especially in humans, a mode

898
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: of cognition that is distinct from intelligence. It may be

899
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 1: identical or similar to the method of how a foul

900
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: shot is executed, as you used in an example, or

901
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: even something beyond that. At the very least, it could

902
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 1: be an instantaneous synthesis of perceptible information that was accumulated

903
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: largely unconsciously. On the more extreme end, it could be

904
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: a sensitivity to information in our environment that is more

905
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: subtle than science in ten can detect. This sounds like

906
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: I'm shading off into magic, but consider phenomenons such as

907
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: how birds may migrate by sensitivity to Earth's magnetic field.

908
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: It's not inconceivable that humans can detect environmental information that's

909
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: currently not measurable and synthesize it in a process that

910
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: feels unconscious, since the conscious part of the mind isn't

911
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: privy to its generation, may feel random, sort of colloquially

912
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: called using your right brain. Great podcast, as always, and

913
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: then he also recommends to us a weekly podcast by

914
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: the BBC called no such Thing as a Fish. So

915
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: maybe we'll take a look at that. Sounds good, But yeah,

916
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: what do y'all think about what Jonathan's suggesting here? It

917
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: sounds plausible to me. I mean, I think that there's

918
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: like lots of aspects of how cognition works that we

919
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: are barely just scratching the surface of now Totally. There's

920
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: a lot about how the mind works that we don't

921
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: understand and and I do take very seriously that the

922
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 1: idea um you said is something distinct from intelligence. But

923
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: maybe one way you could put it is that there

924
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: are many multiple kinds of intelligence, and that some forms

925
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 1: of intelligence are not conscious. You don't think about thinking

926
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: through them to reach the conclusions you do, and yet

927
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: they do reach conclusions that influence your behavior. Is very

928
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: much related to the episode you and I did on

929
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: animal intelligence a couple of months ago. Oh yeah, it

930
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: could be the multiple different kinds of intelligence and intelligences

931
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: that may not be understandable to their own owners, intelligences

932
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: that may not be understandable from the outside. I'm actually

933
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 1: I'm into that. I'm more skeptical of the idea that

934
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: there's environmental information that is influencing our brains that uh

935
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: I think you might have put it that science in

936
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: seventeen can't measure. I'm totally open to. Of course, there's

937
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 1: a there's a whole lot we don't know scientifically about

938
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: the world yet. But I would think if there are

939
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: some kind of energetic influences that are acting on our brains,

940
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: they'd be measurable in some way. We might not understand

941
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: what they are or what they're doing. But I would

942
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 1: I would find it hard to believe they would be

943
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: not detectable in any scientific way, because if they're acting

944
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: on the brain, they're doing something, and by doing something,

945
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: that should mean they're detectable. Joe, you just don't want

946
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: to believe you're the Scully. Uh well, I mean I

947
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: take that as a compliment. I do love Scully, but um,

948
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: we need more Scullies. I'm the Scully who does want

949
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: to believe. Plus that you're like Scully postseason five? Is

950
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: that is that when it happens? That sounds kind of

951
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: like after the movie. I think is where she starts

952
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: like being more open to the idea of the paranormal.

953
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm the Scully that's in The Fall, that's depressing. How

954
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: about the Scully that's in Hannibal that's exciting. Yeah, I

955
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: still haven't made it to that. All right, we just

956
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: have a couple left here. This next one comes to

957
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: us from Jim, who Jim is is pretty o G.

958
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 1: He's been writing for quite a while, always, always great emails.

959
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: Has he been writing since Allison was I think he

960
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: may have even before me and Allison back in the

961
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,760
Speaker 1: proto day when it was just Carney. It was just Carney,

962
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: and then Carney brought in two piles of a sentient

963
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: goop and those were the original hosts. And then that's

964
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: what the listeners say when they always say it was

965
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 1: better with the other hosts. They would better with the goop.

966
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: Bring back the sentient goop. Okay, I guess I should

967
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: take it personally, all right. This one again comes from

968
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: Jim Jim Wrightson and says, Hi, guys, I listened to

969
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: your luck Guessing podcast this morning. This is the FIRMI

970
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: estimation bodies we've been talking about. Uh, I know, I'm

971
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: a bit behind. I had a few thoughts. It reminded

972
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: me of two sayings. First, the harder I work, the

973
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: luckier I get. And then second, luck is when preparation

974
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: meets opportunity. The first one is kind of like, what

975
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: is it they say? God helps those who help themselves. Yeah,

976
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: As for lucky people, is it really luck or just chance?

977
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: Would you consider someone who could flip a fair coin

978
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: heads thirty times in a row lucky? What if you

979
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: gave everyone on the planet a coin and asked them

980
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: to flip as long as they got all heads. Since

981
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 1: there are about seven billion people, on the planet, about

982
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: seven or eight people should do it. We don't know

983
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: who those seven to eight people would be. They won't

984
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 1: have any special talent, but they will appear well outside

985
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 1: of the norms. This sort of goes back to something

986
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: we did on I think maybe the first episode I

987
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: ever did of Stuff to Blow your Mind, which was

988
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: about the science of coincidence, where we're talking about how

989
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: many things that appear to be these great coincidences are

990
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: not in fact all that remarkable. For example, if there

991
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: are lots of trials you're not conscious of. Uh. You know,

992
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 1: the law of large numbers is something you watch somebody

993
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: flip heads thirty times in a row. It's like, that's impossible,

994
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: it's crazy. But if they're the only person who did

995
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 1: it this year or something, then you know somebody had

996
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: to do it. I run into this a lot with

997
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: dungeons and dragons. You know, it's it's if if someone

998
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: has an advantage and they were like two twenties in

999
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: a row, which you know is the critical hit, everyone's

1000
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 1: just floored. Uh, And then you start thinking, well, there's

1001
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: synchronicity going on here, there's something deeper at play. But

1002
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: you've rolled so many times and not done that. I've

1003
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: actually played games where people start to get paranoid where

1004
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: they think that they're dices somehow like poorly made or

1005
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: loaded their own way, because it's it's constantly rolling a

1006
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: natural one, which leads to automatic failure. I think I've

1007
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: seen of a meme online where people have like done

1008
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: done dice shaming in the same way that you would

1009
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: have a dog hold not hold a sign, but a

1010
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: dog with a sign around its neck that says, you know, I,

1011
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,959
Speaker 1: you know, pooped on the floor whatnot, Well, they would

1012
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: shame the dice like I I rolled a one on one.

1013
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: My my character was trying to to swing on a

1014
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 1: vine across the never n care or something. But also

1015
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: Jim later in his email talked about this thought experiment

1016
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: Robert and I did, or we tried to do a

1017
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: piece of FIRMI estimation some rough estimation to come up

1018
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: with the answer to the question in the United States

1019
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: how much hair in total gets cut off of people's

1020
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: heads every year. I liked how we had another listener

1021
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: who I don't have their name, but they they commented

1022
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: that it was clear that neither of us had ever

1023
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: had very long hair. They sent our estimate estimates regarding

1024
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 1: care something mass. Our estimate could have been way off,

1025
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: but I think Jim only comes off with about one

1026
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: order of magnitude different. So let's let's hear what Jim

1027
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 1: has to say. He says quote, I have another idea

1028
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 1: about the weight of hair. I would do the estimate

1029
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: based upon the following assumptions. One, people tend to keep

1030
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: their hair roughly the same length overall, even if they

1031
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: vary how often they get it cut. Two hair tends

1032
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: to grow about six inches in one year. And three

1033
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: we could estimate how much six inches of hair on

1034
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: one head would be. I think a six inch ponytail

1035
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: would be about right, as in the kind that are

1036
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: donated for the real hair wigs for cancer patients. I

1037
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: don't have any to way, but let's assume they are

1038
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: about two ounces. That times three million Americans gives me

1039
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: thirty seven million pounds are almost nineteen thousand tons. I

1040
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: don't remember your estimate. Using another estimate technique for the

1041
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: same problem tends to reinforce estimates. I don't remember where

1042
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: I read this, but it was about estimating how much

1043
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: water flows through the Mississippi River in a year using

1044
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: two techniques. One choose a location on the river and

1045
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: estimated the the amount of water through that section based

1046
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: upon the rivers with depth and speed. The other estimate

1047
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: was based upon the size of the Mississippi River Bay

1048
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: sit in rainfall. Both estimates were pretty close to each other,

1049
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: and the assumption was that two approximations confirmed each other.

1050
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: This is interesting because this is another thing we talked

1051
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 1: about in the episode, how multiple different estimates can help

1052
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 1: average each other out. So one of the things that

1053
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: firm the estimation relies upon is that if you're if

1054
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: you're coming up with rough guesses for numbers to calculate

1055
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: some unknown number, even if you're wrong on one number,

1056
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 1: it might help balance it if you're wrong in the

1057
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: opposite direction for a different number. So maybe you overestimate

1058
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 1: how much the average amount of hair ways, but you

1059
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: underestimate how much of it gets cut off and each

1060
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: given haircut or something like that. Uh So if you

1061
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: if you have enough of these things competing against each other,

1062
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: they should help sort of average you toward the correct answer.

1063
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: Jim also points out in his email this interesting problem

1064
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: in game theory known as the sheriff's dilemma, which is

1065
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,720
Speaker 1: essentially a problem where you use a game theory payoff

1066
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: mate riecks to determine whether or not you should shoot

1067
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: somebody based on little information. You just pitched this as

1068
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 1: a story recently, I did. I took Jim's idea. If

1069
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: it's going to get picked up, I don't know. I

1070
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: hope so they make an article out of it. It

1071
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: reminds me of playing Werewolf, which of course involves some

1072
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: of these uh these these these ideas. Wait what the

1073
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: payoff to payoff matrix for shooting somebody? Um werewolf for

1074
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: Mafia of course, the social game where oh I see

1075
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 1: where somebody's a werewolf for somebody. I don't really like

1076
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: the Mafia version. I don't think it really holds up well.

1077
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: And maybe I just prefer I did not know the

1078
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: werewolf version. This is I've only ever heard of Mafia,

1079
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: and I used to be a pretty serious Mafia player.

1080
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: Oh that's good, Okay. So Jim came up with thirty

1081
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: seven million pounds of hair, and we came up with

1082
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: a hundred and twelve million pounds of hair getting cut

1083
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: every year. So our estimates, our estimates are just one

1084
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: order of magnitude apart. That's not too bad, uh, and

1085
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: your guests. Of course, Jim's guests might be better than ours.

1086
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: So I told Jim, I like your methodology, but I

1087
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: didn't know that figure that hair grows an average of

1088
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: six inches a year. Yeah, I heard that, and I

1089
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: immediately thought, my hair grows way more than that. I've

1090
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: never heard this, so I don't know how accurate it

1091
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: is or anything. But I think also, Robert, you and

1092
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: I could have gone wrong by seriously overestimating the mass

1093
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: of the average head of hair. I think we guessed

1094
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: about a quarter of a pound, which in retrospect sounds

1095
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: really high. And I'm thinking I fell victim to the

1096
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: availability heuristic. That's where you, you know, make a bad

1097
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: choice based on some particular example in your mind that's

1098
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,439
Speaker 1: easily retrievable. And when I was guessing the average head

1099
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: of human hair, I had in my mind a picture

1100
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: of a man with what looks like five pounds of dreadlocks.

1101
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: So that was probably edging my average estimate too high.

1102
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: And looking back, maybe maybe we should say two ounces

1103
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: of hair instead of a quarter pound. I don't know,

1104
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: but anyway, one other way we could reinforce as if

1105
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: this number really mattered all that much is to average

1106
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: our estimates with Jim. So the the the average between

1107
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: Jim's estimate and hours to be somewhere around seventy million

1108
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: pounds of hair getting cut every year. I also mentioned

1109
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: to Jim that when I got his email, I had

1110
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: just gotten my hair cut the other day and I

1111
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 1: forgot to ask my barber if if she had any

1112
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: input on this information. You're going to ask your barber

1113
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: to wear your hair without explaining anything, wouldn't that be

1114
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: great a scale? Yeah, I need you to weigh my hair.

1115
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: Oh man, this is great because I'm I'm often in

1116
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: need of of small talk when I go to get

1117
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: my hair cut, and it can be awkward. Huh. And

1118
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: theys are going to the wrong barber because that's part

1119
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,959
Speaker 1: of the gig. Man, They've got to keep the conversation flowing. Well,

1120
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: not talk at all and not make you feel any pressure. Well, yeah,

1121
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: they need to know when you are not interested in talking.

1122
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: I generally, I generally go into a meditative state during

1123
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: my hair cut, like there's something vidic stage No, no no,

1124
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: not kind of tonic, but just very I get very relaxed.

1125
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: It's kind of what it's like a sensory deprivation tech. Yeah,

1126
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: it's the it's like a SMR. It's it's very much

1127
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: like that, like very much like a SMR. Like I

1128
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: just kind of doze out. I'm probably the worst person

1129
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: to I mean, I'm easily moved into different positions, um,

1130
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: but but I'm not a great talker because I just

1131
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: zone out completely. Your head's lolling back and forth. Yeah.

1132
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,439
Speaker 1: But one of the first a SMR videos I ever

1133
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: saw was somebody pretending to cut your hair. I think

1134
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: that's a big one, isn't it. Yeah, yeah, totally works

1135
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: on me. By the way, I know the audience is

1136
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: probably going, what the hell's a SMR. We've done brain

1137
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: stuff videos about this in the past and then stuff

1138
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind videos in the past. But there's

1139
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: an older podcast episode about Okay, so yeah, I had

1140
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: an over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com

1141
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: um or how stuff Works. I think they may have

1142
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: a straight up episode there, if not videos, and you

1143
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: can type in SMR and see what happens. Yeah, it's

1144
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: totally fascinating. All right. I got one more here, and

1145
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: this is from our recent episode about the demon Haunted Mind.

1146
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: And this is the episode where Robert and I took

1147
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,919
Speaker 1: a look at a recently published academic paper that found

1148
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: a correlation between people who believe in demons and negative

1149
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: mental illness. So this comes from I'm actually gonna leave

1150
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: this name anonymous, but they say as a psychology professional

1151
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: and having an amateur interest in religion. I am a

1152
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: nonden denominational Christian. This episode was super interesting to me.

1153
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 1: On one hand, I can agree with what the study said,

1154
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: On another, I completely disagree with it. Religion is definitely

1155
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: something slightly different to all people. I've been around demonic possessions,

1156
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: what you could call exorcism, spiritual healing is another term,

1157
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: depending on the circle, and enough strange things that science

1158
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: definitely could not explain. That being said, I have rarely

1159
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: seen or heard from myself much that has happened. Most

1160
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: has been right before or right after I was present,

1161
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: only to be corroborated by multiple witnesses. I have never

1162
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 1: sought demons and don't need to see demonic presences to

1163
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: know the spiritual world exists. This is important to keep

1164
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: in mind. I believe the Bible gives a decent explanation

1165
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: of this, and I have heard other people explain it

1166
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: in this way, if you go looking for something, you

1167
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: will find it. The Bible says seek and ye shall find,

1168
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,439
Speaker 1: and that's in Luke eleven nine. And then he also

1169
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: quotes an evil in adulterous generation seeks for a sign,

1170
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: which is in Matthews sixteen four. This verse outlines those

1171
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: that go looking for a sign specifically as proof they

1172
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: will find it, but generally in a negative way. The

1173
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: reasoning is a little complicated for email, but the basics

1174
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: looks something like this. In psychological terms, demons are not

1175
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: seen as academic. In almost every case, they are evil

1176
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: and are a belief. Therefore, by making the decision to

1177
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: look for them, the negative infects your mind. It has

1178
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: been well documented what focus on negative issues can do

1179
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: to people. In some cases, this could be so extreme

1180
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: as to produce multiple mental issues. I have my own views,

1181
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: religious and personal on this, but I won't share them here.

1182
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: This is just a basic idea that seems to be

1183
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: true in my personal and professional life. So I mean,

1184
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: I think what I'm hearing outside of what this person's

1185
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 1: actual belief system is lines up with the study to

1186
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: me from what like I remember from their correlations that

1187
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually that like demons were influencing you somehow,

1188
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 1: but that it was that because you were prone to

1189
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: having a cynical world view, you were subsequently attracted to

1190
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: the idea of demons and negative mental health as a

1191
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: maybe totally obvious or too obvious to state thing. I mean,

1192
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: obviously having demon obsessed ideation could lead to the belief

1193
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 1: that someone is possessed by demons. Yeah. Well, one of

1194
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: the things that's interesting about this study is that they

1195
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 1: also showed that just like the belief in demons may

1196
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: correlate with mental health problems, but that doesn't mean necessarily

1197
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: that mental health problems correlate with the belief in demons.

1198
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: That makes sense, uh, though, I mean, I wouldn't want

1199
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: to sell short the influence of this person's religious beliefs.

1200
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: Reading this email, I strongly get the sense that this

1201
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: person believes demons are real. Yeah, they said at the top,

1202
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: they said amateur interest in religion, but it certainly sounded

1203
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: a lot more in depth than what I would think of. Well,

1204
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: I'm also amature. I'm also reminded of the episodes that

1205
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: we did about Incubined subcuby and and and and I

1206
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: think we've touched on on witchcraft persecution in other episodes

1207
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: as well, but they're There are a few theories in fact,

1208
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,919
Speaker 1: one from the author Walter Stevens who wrote this book

1209
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 1: Demon Lovers that we refer to, and he makes an

1210
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 1: argument that a lot of what was going on in

1211
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: the persecution of which is is this this desire in

1212
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 1: a time of of a faltering faith, uh, this desire

1213
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 1: for there to be a proof of the supernatural that

1214
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: like carnal proof, like physical proof, like this is where

1215
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: the supernatural realm touches us and improves its reality. And

1216
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 1: if demons are real, then God is real as well. Yeah,

1217
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 1: so demons aren't. It wasn't just strongly religious people trying

1218
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: to act out their religious fervor, but it was people

1219
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 1: who were afraid that God might not exist and thinking

1220
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: that if demons, if you can show demonic possession, you

1221
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: can know that God is real. And so yeah, that's

1222
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: really interesting. One thing I would pick up on this

1223
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: email is UH trying to reason about the presence of

1224
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 1: demon possession or the reality of demon possession from the

1225
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: idea of UH seeing things that science definitely could not explain.

1226
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm always like, I don't, how do you know you

1227
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: hear people say that about things that can't be publicly investigated,

1228
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: but whenever it's something that can be publicly investigated, suddenly

1229
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 1: it gets way less uh deterministic about whether science can't

1230
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 1: explain it. I think future pronouncements that this science will

1231
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: never be able to explain this thing I saw. I

1232
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 1: don't think there's a good basis for saying that. Well,

1233
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: I do want to point out to the outside of

1234
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 1: this letter, we received a lot of listener mail about

1235
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 1: this particular episode, and a lot of you shared your

1236
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: personal experiences with us, and you know, unfortunately, because of

1237
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: how much time we have for these listener mail episodes,

1238
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 1: we couldn't read them all. This one was interesting to

1239
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: me primarily because it was from a psychology professional. Um,

1240
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: but we did hear from I would say at least ten,

1241
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: if not more, people about their personal experiences both with

1242
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: the belief in demons and with mental illness and how

1243
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: the two connected. Uh so, yeah, I mean, I don't

1244
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: know necessarily from like I see exactly what you're saying.

1245
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: I can see how from like a subjective standpoint, it

1246
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: feels like science couldn't explain something that you've seen, but

1247
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: like you could say the same thing, and that's not

1248
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: to take away from the power of it and your

1249
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: personal experience or in your life. Yeah. Absolutely, um, But

1250
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: then like you could have said the same thing about

1251
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: I don't know astronomy a thousand years ago, right, So um,

1252
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm not quite so sure. But I also like this

1253
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: person seems to have like an interest in the empirical

1254
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: but also in the spiritual that like are sort of

1255
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: rubbing up against one another. That's probably why this episode

1256
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: clicked for them. And I do want to mention that

1257
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: we've mentioned this before, but anytime we discuss supernatural experience, uh,

1258
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: we never We're never doubting the the experience, the and

1259
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 1: and the the feelings that are associated with it, the

1260
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: the you know, trauma or you know serious a sensation

1261
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 1: of enlightenment like that, that is all valid. It's it's

1262
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: what is causing the experience. Uh. And And I feel

1263
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: like most of the time, if not all of the time,

1264
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,919
Speaker 1: you can point to some very valid explanations that are

1265
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: that are very much in keeping with our understanding of

1266
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 1: the natural world and in the human mind. But I

1267
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: would also say that even going beyond that, not being

1268
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 1: aware of a current valid explanation rooted in natural science.

1269
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: Also is not a proof that you have experienced a

1270
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 1: demon or a ghost. I did want to say something

1271
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 1: else that this this email was interesting to me in

1272
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: multiple ways, so I really appreciate the person who wrote

1273
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: it writing in but the idea about warnings against investigation

1274
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 1: of the demonic, like that seems a very interesting and

1275
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 1: intellectually fertile soil as well, like the idea of uh

1276
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: interpreting certain Bible verses to say that if you go

1277
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: after looking for evidence of the demonic, if you want

1278
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: to try to investigate it in this academic way, you

1279
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: are asking for trouble. Yeah. Um, that that's something that

1280
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 1: we came across in the Exorcism Addercism episode as well.

1281
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: Depending on like what particular religious beliefs you have, there

1282
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: are that that's in line with some of them that

1283
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:20,639
Speaker 1: it's like you just shouldn't think about this, don't look

1284
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: behind the curtain. But I mean that's also you could look.

1285
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,719
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the person writing the this email

1286
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: has this motive in mind, but you could also say

1287
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: similar things to just discourage investigation of a phenomenon that

1288
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: would ultimately make it look mundane. Yeah. Well, and That's

1289
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 1: one of the interesting things too about that study was

1290
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 1: that it was one in a long line of studies

1291
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 1: that had shown correlations between religious beliefs and mental health.

1292
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: And there are positive ones too, as we mentioned in

1293
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: the episode, like belief in the Loving God or belief

1294
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 1: in prayer, things like that lead to positive mental health. Uh. So,

1295
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's just interesting kind of like looking at

1296
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: how they all weigh together, Like which things do you

1297
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: choose to think about? Which things do you not? And

1298
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 1: I don't know if you decide that based upon what

1299
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 1: the the canonical writings or your religion are or or

1300
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:17,879
Speaker 1: something else. I'll just say this, do not look into

1301
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 1: the world of demons. Do not investigate the world of

1302
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 1: demons unless you want to discover so many wonderful films,

1303
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 1: pieces of literature, uh, compositions, music, so many wonderful pieces

1304
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 1: of art. Um, it's all of Robertspidy and the campaigns. Yeah,

1305
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 1: Denis and Dragons has so many devils and demons. Uh. Yeah,

1306
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 1: there's there's so much wonderful stuff out there. I can't imagine, uh,

1307
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 1: my life if I had not decided to to look

1308
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: into them. And as we talked about in the episode,

1309
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 1: when you were a little kid, you and I had

1310
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 1: the same thing where we would be like Sunday School

1311
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 1: and you would say, hey, I want to know more

1312
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,640
Speaker 1: about this revelations. It says like all these demons and

1313
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:57,799
Speaker 1: legions are gonna come to show up. And the people

1314
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 1: would be like, don't don't worry about that. Let's let's

1315
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 1: get more to the caring part. And that's I think

1316
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: that's kind of valid advices. There's always in Sunday School

1317
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of steering you to the parts of

1318
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: the Bible they want you to focus on. Al Right, Well,

1319
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 1: on that note, let's go ahead and close it up.

1320
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,799
Speaker 1: We'll leave everyone out there to either pursue the demons

1321
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: or the caring, whichever one you want to do. Hopefully

1322
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 1: you'll make room for both in your life. Um, as usual,

1323
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 1: head on over to Stuff to Well your Mind dot com.

1324
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: That's the mother ship. That's what we'll find all of

1325
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 1: the blog post, podcast videos, and links out to our

1326
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: various social media accounts. That's right, And if you want

1327
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: to write us the old fashioned way, you can get

1328
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 1: us at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com.

1329
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: Well more on this and thousands of other topics. Is

1330
01:11:53,400 --> 01:12:06,560
Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com lia I think they

1331
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 1: try to start about the proper part far F