1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing the simple steps to achieve fire. Yeah, Joel. 3 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Even though achieving fire, which by the way, that means 4 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: financial independence retire early. We talked about this last week 5 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 1: and this is a little two parter series that we're 6 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: doing on financial independence retiring early. Though the steps are simple, 7 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean that they're easy, right. This is 8 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: a big goal to try to get to the point 9 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: to where you don't have to work, where you could 10 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: retire early if you wanted to to where you are 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: financially independent. That's what we're gonna talk about this episode. 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk through the specific steps that we all 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: need to take regardless of what our financial independence retire 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: early journeys look like. We're gonna get really practical with 15 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: this episode, Buddy, Yeah, Man, Fire obviously an incredible goal. 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the pros and cons of 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: it last week, but yeah, there are some specific things 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: that you need to do in order to achieve that goal. 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: And it's not a goal necessarily for everybody. But I 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: think one of the key tenants of fire that we're 21 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: gonna talk about two is that you really do have 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: to be intentional about every single dollar. And Matt, before 23 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: we get to talking about fire, I wanted to tell 24 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: you some way I was trying to be really intentional 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: about my money. Uh just here. It just this past week. So, Man, 26 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: I drove our family downtown recently for a protest against 27 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: racial injustice, and I'm trying to figure out where we 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: were going to park. And normally I would like to 29 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: ride my bike downtown with the kids, but with all 30 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: of us going with like a nap time for the baby, 31 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,279 Speaker 1: we just had to drive for and it made sense. 32 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: And I was trying to figure out where the cheapest 33 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: place to park was near the place we were going. 34 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: And so, like a super money nerd that I am, 35 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: I was googling for websites that would help me find 36 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: the cheapest parking. I found this website called parko Pedia 37 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: and legit, yeah it's like I think, yeah, it's like Wikipedia, 38 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: but for parking or something like that. And I don't know, 39 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: but no, they did a really good job kind of 40 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: kind of laying out the map and telling me how 41 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: much it costs to park at different places. And so 42 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: I ended up finding a place it looked like it 43 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: was nine dollars if I parked before ten am early 44 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: bird special. I was like, cool, I'm gonna hit that. 45 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: I want to be there, and you know, a lot 46 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: of other places were and I think park O PD 47 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: did a good job. But it turns out I didn't 48 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: do a good job. I didn't really fine print. So 49 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: the early bird special only applies if you leave after 50 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: two pm. We weren't staying that long, so I had 51 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: to pay a full twenty bucks man, And that's the 52 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: kind of thing that a guy like me absolutely hates. 53 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: Like it was, it was really tough leaving that parking 54 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: lot and being like, man, I just gotta stuck with 55 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: the twenty dollar bill for parking when I tried to 56 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: plan ahead. Frugal fail. Man. So did you use the 57 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: website or did you download the app onto your phone? 58 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: I used the website website, so I've never heard of 59 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: the site, but I saw that they do have an app, 60 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: and I was gonna say that if you had the apps, 61 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: and you should leave a review, because you can leave 62 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: reviews for individual decks or parking lots. I was looking. 63 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: It didn't seem like there are a ton of reviews 64 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: or you know, feedback within Atlanta. So I don't know 65 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: if that means it's just maybe a newer service for Atlanta. 66 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: But this is the kind of thing though that I 67 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: love seeing anything that's crowdsourced, where folks are participating in it. 68 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: And so hopefully next time you'll have the app, you 69 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: can leave your feedback and that can let the next 70 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: guy know that they got to stay there until, you know, 71 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 1: way after nap time for the baby. Yeah, it felt 72 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: like a little bait and switch. Maybe I don't know. Also, 73 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: probably I just didn't read the fine print, So I'm 74 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: gonna blame that one on myself. But for other people 75 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: who do park in areas that are kind of expensive, 76 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: maybe that app or that website can be helpful to 77 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: people to find a parking garage that is going to 78 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: be cheaper. And yeah, read the reviews because people will 79 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: chime in and and tell you what they found wrong 80 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: with that parking deck. But for those of us who 81 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: are money nerds into saving every dollar, I sight like 82 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: that can be helpful for sure. I mean, that could 83 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: be a great resource if you're looking for free or 84 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: cheap parking. Uh, let's introduce our beer for this episode. 85 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: We are gonna drink uh Speedway stout and this is 86 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: an Imperial stout with coffee brewed by Ale Smith. These 87 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: guys are out of San Diego. We actually mentioned them 88 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: on a recent episode. It's one of the many wonderful 89 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: brewers they're out of that great ay there in California. 90 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: Looking forward to sharing listen with you, Man, me too. Man. 91 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: All right, let's get onto to the subject at hand. 92 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: Today we're discussing the simple steps to achieve fire. And 93 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: last week on the show, Matt, You and I we 94 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: shared how we feel about the Fire movement. We talked 95 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: through the pros and cons, the things that we really 96 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: like about the movement and the things that we kind 97 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,239 Speaker 1: of feel are lacking, and we really came down on 98 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: the side of the fact that we think that the 99 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: movement has been more helpful than harmful by by a 100 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: long shot. But at the same time, we're not all 101 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: in on it, and we discussed kind of the specifics 102 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: on why. So if you didn't get a chance to 103 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: listen to that one, we would say give it a shot, 104 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: go check that one out. This episode, we're going to 105 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: discuss exactly how you can achieve fire. If that's something 106 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: that you are interested in. By the way, to Matt, 107 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to to make a note that Fire is 108 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: not only for hyper young people. It's not only for 109 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: millennials and younger. People in their forties and fifties are 110 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: finding out about this movement and it's changing how they 111 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: handle their finances, and it's causing them to rethink the 112 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: traditional notions of retiring at six later. So this show 113 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: today is deaf only for all of our listeners. Yeah, 114 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: we don't only have twenty five year old listeners. Sometimes 115 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: I think maybe we have forty five or fifty five 116 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: year old listeners to uh. You know, it's also important 117 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: to note that, depending on your specific situation, Fire could 118 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: of course be much harder to achieve. You know, if 119 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: you're miired in the student loan debts, or you're working 120 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: a low paying job for a nonprofit because maybe you 121 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: love the work, Fire will most definitely be a more 122 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: difficult accomplishment. If this is you, then there's a good 123 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: chance that the retire early part of Fire, that that 124 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: won't even be a goal of years at all, you know, 125 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: if you do love the work that you do. However, 126 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: the financial independence portion of Fire, you know, I think 127 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: that's something that we should all be striving towards. And also, 128 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: the biggest question we're gonna answer in this episode is 129 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: how to actually achieve fire. And granted that journey is 130 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: gonna look different for for everyone, but there are certain 131 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: principles that are the same regardless of what your journey 132 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: looks like. Yeah, and we wanted to discuss specifically how 133 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: to achieve fire for two reasons. Two major reasons, Matt. 134 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: One I think is is seeing bigger potend possibilities. It 135 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: can be motivating and eye opening. I know that in 136 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: my financial journey before I heard about fire, I had 137 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: some basic assumptions about personal finance, and then hearing the 138 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: depths of what other people were able to accomplish was 139 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: inspirational and motivational to me. It kind of opened up 140 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: a world of possibilities in personal finance that just didn't 141 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: even know we're there. And because of that, it helped 142 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: me number two reframe my own goals like and and 143 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: that can be the same for many of our listeners 144 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: as they kind of hear about this subject and here 145 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: the details on how to achieve fire. Many of our 146 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: listeners are ambitious when it comes to their money, dreams 147 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: and so laying out the framework of what it will 148 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: take to attain fire, it can be so helpful, right, 149 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: And even if fire isn't on their radar, I think 150 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: anybody who just wants to pursue financial independence or just 151 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: like curious about how they can save more and do 152 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: better with their money, they're going to find this episode 153 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: helpful too. Yeah, man, And I like what you said 154 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: there about just the possibilities that are just out there 155 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: for us. When we are aware of fire, and when 156 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: we know that it's something that we can pursue, it 157 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: opens up our mind, you know, it opens our eyes 158 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: to the different possibilities and just all the different options 159 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: out there. We don't have to follow the script of, 160 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, retiring at age sixty five, Like there's a 161 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: chance you could retire at forty five or maybe even 162 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: thirty five, you know, if you really get after it. Well, 163 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: I'm already past that point, so you definitely can't go 164 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: back in time. But fire does not offer that possibility 165 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: for others out there. So let's go ahead and simplify 166 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: achieving fire down to the essential roots. Basically, you just 167 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: need to massively increase your savings rate, and then you 168 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: need to invest the difference. That sounds pretty simple, right, 169 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: but the nuts and bolts can actually be pretty revealing. 170 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: So we're gonna discuss the actual specifics of how to 171 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: achieve fire, and we're gonna get to that right after 172 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: the break. All right, we're back from the break, and Matt, 173 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna get to the math and we're gonna get 174 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: to the investment accounts and all that stuff in just 175 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: a little bit. But the first thing you need to 176 00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: do in the first step I think you need to 177 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: take when you decide that pursuing fire is for you, 178 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: is that you have to change your current relationship with money. 179 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: And there are a few things that we have to 180 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: discuss on this front before we can kind of move 181 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: on to those other things. Last week, when we talked 182 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: about the impact that the larger goal of fire can 183 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: have on your mindset, it can be powerful. And then, well, 184 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: if you really want to reach fire in a reasonable 185 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: time frame, you're going to need to have a real 186 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: change and how you relate to money. Right, You'll need 187 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: to begin to enjoy the gamification aspects of personal finance. 188 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: We've talked about that before, Matt, And then you'll want 189 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: to let that overarching goal influence the money choices that 190 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: you make every single day. Bringing your lunch to work 191 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: every day and biking through the rain can be kind 192 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: of actually instead of a bumer, it can be part 193 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: of the excitement with your goal in hand, giving you 194 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: the fuel to make those choices that are going to 195 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: save you lots of extra money in order to help 196 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: you reach that goal more quickly. Yeah, that intentional hardship 197 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: can actually sometimes boost our happiness, right, And part of 198 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: this is just rethinking happiness and what happiness is for us. 199 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: We all know deep down that the most satisfying things 200 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: in life are oftentimes free, and that also are Spending 201 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: can dig us into a hole that creates stress and 202 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: just more anxiety. So part of what fire, you know, 203 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: gets really right is actually prioritizing what brings us meaning 204 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: and then just ditching the rest. You know, This is 205 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: how achieving fire can look different for everyone. It depends 206 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: on what it is that you're prioritizing. Achieving fire doesn't 207 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: necessarily have to be this cookie cutter thing that's gonna 208 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: look the exact same from one person to the next. 209 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: We control our futures, We control what we spend our 210 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: money on. And additionally, on the note of happiness, I 211 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: think it's worth pointing out how I think we've all 212 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: seen in our lives when consumer spending, when you know, 213 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 1: spending money that we didn't need to spend, how oftentimes 214 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: that leads to us being less happy. And so that's 215 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,359 Speaker 1: even more reason why it's important for us to rethink 216 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: what it is that moves the needle for us that 217 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: actually makes us happy, because it'll be easier to identify 218 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: the fact that earning lots of money and having tons 219 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: of money isn't necessarily the end goal. Yeah, that reminds 220 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: me of an episode we did quite a while back. 221 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: We talked about buying happiness and can we do it? 222 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: And we talked about the hedonic treadmill in that podcast episode, 223 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: and we talked about how quickly we get used to 224 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: the new normal once we've kind of upped our spending, 225 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: and that spending increase might produce some sort of incredibly 226 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: short lived burst of happiness, but in the long run, 227 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: we then have to maintain that level of happiness and 228 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: continue to spend. And so we're better off from a 229 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: happiness perspective reining in our spending and saving more of 230 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: what we make feeling less anxiety overall, and just practicing 231 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: gratitude more frequently for for the things that we do have. Right, 232 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: and as folks start to consider whether or not they 233 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: think fire is something that they could live with, right, 234 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: whether they think that that's something that would fit well 235 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: with their lifestyle. I mean, that's exactly what we would 236 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: encourage folks to do, is to think through the type 237 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: of lifestyle that they want to have, because there are, 238 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, there can be a couple of different types 239 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: of fire that you can achieve. You know, sacrifices will 240 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: of course be required in order to go hard after fire, 241 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: but how much sacrifice and the level of journey difficulty well, 242 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: in large part be determined by the specific route that 243 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: you opt for. In recent years is more people have 244 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: found out about fire and joined the community. Terminology has 245 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: developed to better reflect the choices that people are making, 246 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: and that's where the different types of fire come in. Yeah, 247 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: I think those are helpful because they've kind of distinguished 248 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: uh different ways of approaching fire in your life. And 249 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: the big two matt that that fire people talk about 250 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: the most are lean fire and fat fire. So let's 251 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: kind of talk about that too, because I think knowing 252 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: these options out there too can help you in your 253 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: approach to fire because some people want an incredibly simple lifestyle. 254 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: They might, let's say, want to live in an RV 255 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: um or build a tiny house on on a relatives land. 256 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: And that kind of person might be somebody who would 257 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: be a perfect fit for lean fire. This is a 258 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: group of people in the movement that feel comfortable saving 259 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: up twenty five times or expenses in investments and calling 260 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: it done or maybe even less sometimes, and this group 261 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: often receives the most criticism to because as most financial 262 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: experts don't think they're saving enough to cover a long 263 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: term retirement, lean fire often means only biking, no car 264 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: at all. It also could mean moving to an extremely 265 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: low cost of living area to reduce costs even more 266 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: like living in an RV and this of course will 267 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: allow you to reach that fire goal sooner because you 268 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: have fewer expenses that you need to cover in those 269 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: retirement years, in the years that you decide not to work. 270 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: But no, that lean fire means a long term lifestyle 271 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: of extreme simplicity. And I know for some people that 272 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: sounds perfect and for other people we feel like we 273 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: need a few more creature comforts and that lean fire 274 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: lifestyle just isn't for us. Yeah, And on the other 275 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: end of the spectrum is fat fire And I can 276 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: identify maybe a little more with the fat firefolks, uh, 277 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: for multiple reasons, namely because there's certain luxuries I'm gonna 278 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: want to have in my life, like beer. That's true. 279 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: You know, this approach is going to be a little 280 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: more conservative when it comes to their investments and what 281 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: you expect to receive and returns. And you know, while 282 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: it major ly does prioritize frugality, also doesn't advise cutting 283 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: back to the bare bones during retirement. You know, there's 284 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: a realization that cutting back too harshly can lead to 285 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: burnout and so where retirement may not even be all 286 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: that fun, right, And so you've kind of worked really 287 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: hard to save up, you know, just enough to to 288 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: get by to consider that twenty five times your annual expenses, 289 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: but in reality you're having to cut back maybe way 290 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: more than you realize, or maybe there are certain expenses 291 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: that you didn't take into account. And it's like, man, 292 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: this retirement lifestyle isn't really all that is cracked up 293 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: to be. Yes, So I would say you and I 294 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: both probably lean a little more towards the fat fire camp, 295 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: although a lot of those people want to buy like 296 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: a Tesla and travel first class too, And I'm not 297 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: really I don't really care too much about those things, 298 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: or one of those things. You still want to tesla, 299 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure someday, someday, but but that's a long way off, man, 300 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,719 Speaker 1: I just can't see that happening anytime soon. Maybe in 301 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: ten years I'll get an extremely used Tesla. We'll see. 302 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: But now, Matt, as we're following the simple steps to 303 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: achieve fire. We've we've changed our relationship with money, and 304 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: we've kind of determined what fire approach is going to 305 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: work best for kind of our long term approach to money. 306 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: Then let's get too kind of a few specifics on 307 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: how you proceed from there. One is that you have 308 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: to pay off debt if you want to achieve fire, 309 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: if you want to be able to retire. It is 310 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: about saving and investing, but it's also about making sure 311 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: that any sort of debts that you have, especially high 312 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: interest rate debts, are taken care of. And so if 313 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: you have gotten yourself into a place where you have 314 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: more debt in your life, you've got student loan debt 315 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: or credit cards hanging out, you're gonna want to prioritize 316 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: those at the same time you're you're prioritizing investing and 317 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: saving more because if you're going to try to retire early, 318 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: the only debt you should typically even consider having in 319 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: your life is debt on a home. Yeah, it's hard 320 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: to save up your money and have interest working for 321 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: you when you have interest working against you. When it 322 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: comes to the debts that you still have. Another sort 323 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: of you know, key principle joal when it comes to 324 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: achieving fire is that you need to find ways to 325 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: pair back your budget. Cutting your spending is so incredibly powerful. 326 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: You know, we're all about earning more money, but getting 327 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: intentional about spending less can be even more helpful. That's 328 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: because less outgoing money will allow you to save more now, 329 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: but it will also allow you to permanently decrease the 330 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: amount of money that you'll someday need to fund your lifestyle. 331 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: It's kind of like a double weym right. It helps 332 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: out on the front end while you're saving up that 333 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: money now, but it also helps on the back end 334 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: to make sure that you spend that money judiciously as well. 335 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: That being said, as you do earn more, it's crucial 336 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: to bank your additional income, and we would encourage you 337 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: as well to try to keep your lifestyle creep at bay. 338 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: In order to achieve fire faster. You want to make 339 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: sure that you minimize that lifestyle inflation. Yeah, lifestyle creep. 340 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite terms in personal finance that 341 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: doesn't get talked about enough. And when it comes to 342 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: our money, I think all of us kind of identify. 343 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: It's almost never that enormous purchase or that really stupid 344 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: thing that we shouldn't have done buy in like a 345 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: lake house when we didn't have the money for it. 346 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: Oftentimes it's so small things that add up over time, 347 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: hiring along service. Maybe for most of us, it's the 348 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: small things that tend to ruin our budget, that lifestyle inflation. 349 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: As we make more, instead of banking it, we tend 350 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: to consume it, we tend to spend it. And so 351 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: while that's one major thing we need to avoid if 352 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: we're attempting to achieve fire, I think another thing, Matt, 353 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: is that we have to massively lower our costs on 354 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: the three biggest areas of our budget. And those are housing, transportation, 355 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: and food. Firefolks tend to to house hack or live 356 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: in much smaller accommodations than most people who earn similar salaries. 357 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: Living close to where they work and not having a 358 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: car is a route that many take right and eating 359 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: out minimally while cooking almost exclusively at home is another 360 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: way to save big. Almost anybody who has been pursuing 361 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: fire for any period of time realizes that those are 362 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: the major levels that they can pull right now in 363 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: order to to massively increase their savings. Right if you 364 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: go from a three bedroom house that you're renting to 365 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: a one bedroom apartment, well, you can save a good 366 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: bit of money every month. And likewise, if you're like 367 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: leasing a car, let's say, or your cars worth dollars 368 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: and you can downsize into a car that costs you 369 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: five or six thousand dollars. Those are the kind of 370 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: things that anybody pursuing fire would say those three areas. 371 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: You can easily extract more savings out of all three, 372 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: And if you do that, it's going to make a 373 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: big difference in your budget and a big difference on 374 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: your timeline to being able to reach that early retirement point. Yeah, 375 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: focusing on those huge expenses can really make a big 376 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: impact right there. There's so many little things that we 377 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: can do in our lives to kind of optimize, uh, 378 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: these small little winds, but you've got to start with 379 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: the big things. There's only so much money that you're 380 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: gonna be able to save by tweaking your thermostat a 381 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: little bit or searching online for like promo codes when 382 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: you're getting ready to buy something, or for a parking lot. 383 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: You can save ten bucks, you know, for a one 384 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: time parking fee. And granted that's not something that you 385 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: should avoid, but it's also not gonna be the big 386 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: difference maker exactly. And so so something else too. We 387 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: certainly want to make sure that folks are saving their money, 388 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: but we want them to be investing even more. Uh. 389 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about the pittance that most savings accounts, 390 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: even the ones that you know are our favorite online banks, 391 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: that they're paying these days. It is not very high. Uh. 392 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: And if you want your money to grow quickly, it's 393 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: going to need to. If you want to achieve fire, 394 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: then you're gonna need to invest a substantial portion of 395 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: what you make. So let's do a little math, including 396 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: some of the specifics on how to invest to achieve fire, 397 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: you know, including you know, the pesky question of of 398 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: how to even draw on funds in your retirement accounts 399 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: before you hit retirement age. And we're gonna get to 400 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: all those topics right after the break. All right, Matt, 401 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: we're back from the break. We're talking about how to 402 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: achieve fire. We're offering some simple steps and hopefully some 403 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: practical takeaways already in the show, but now we're gonna 404 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: get a little more math oriented, a little more nitty 405 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: gritty when it comes to how we invest, how we 406 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: take money out. That kind of stuff is really crucial 407 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: in the fire conversation. It changes the dynamics of how 408 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: you save and where you save if you're planning on 409 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: working a much shorter amount of time and your retirement 410 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: time horizon is longer, So let's talk about where to invest. Basically, 411 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: if you're trying to to attain fire, it's really important. 412 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: It's the most important thing is maxing out tax advantaged 413 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: retirement accounts like a four one k I r A 414 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: or h s A. Now we've talked about all those 415 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: vehicles at different points in time on the show, so 416 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: We're not going to go into a whole lot of 417 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: detail now, but those are the accounts they're gonna help 418 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: you for multiple reasons. If you're self employed, you can 419 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: invest a whole lot every year inside of a set 420 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: bi RA or a solo four oh one K, and 421 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: in the set bier A specifically, you can save up 422 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: to fifty seven thousand dollars this year, a lot of money. Right, 423 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: So if you're banking it and you really really want 424 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: to achieve fire, you know that you can invest a 425 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: whole lot in a small period of time with those 426 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: kind of limits in a tax advantaged account. Right, If 427 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: you want to achieve fire, it's crucial that you take 428 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: advantage of whichever of these accounts you have access to 429 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: and put as much money as you possibly can in them. Right, 430 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: we said h s A. Not everybody has access to 431 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: an hs A MATT, but if they do, that's an 432 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: important one that they should be putting money aside in 433 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: any of these accounts that you have access to make 434 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: sure you're using them. Yeah, and these are accounts, right, 435 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: These are the different vehicles that we invest our retirement in. 436 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: But what actual investments do we purchase. We're gonna mostly 437 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: recommend stocks. A well diversified stock portfolio could be hard 438 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: to stomach during downturns, you know, like the recent one 439 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: that we had in March and April. But if we 440 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: want to achieve fire, we're going for growth. That's why 441 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: most fire proponents invest in the total stock market or 442 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: the smp FI fundered index fund, you know, with incredibly 443 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: low fees. Their money is actually invested in stocks in 444 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: securities that are a little less conservative than the bonds, 445 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: for instance, or other accounts like a money market account. Yeah, man. 446 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: And by investing in those accounts in particular, as opposed 447 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: to having more of your money in cash on the 448 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: sidelines in a savings account or something like that, you'll 449 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: also be avoiding taxes. This is another huge benefit in 450 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: your attempt to reach fire right by lowering your adjusted 451 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: gross income specifically through investing lots of your money in 452 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: those tax advantage accounts. Specifically, it appears to the government 453 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: right that you're earning less money than you actually are, 454 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: which lesons your tax burden. So understandably, this is another 455 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: huge level that people focused on early retirement look to 456 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: legally pull in as many ways as possible. So, for instance, 457 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: if you do put fifty seven thousand dollars into a 458 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: set bi RA or undred into your four O n K, 459 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: which is the limit for this year. For that your 460 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: A g I goes down dollar for dollar with those contributions, 461 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: lowering your tax liability in a major way. And that 462 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: is why those tax advantage retirement accounts are so dang powerful. 463 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: And so Joe, we know we're talking about putting money 464 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: in retirement accounts, and personal finance nerds out there listeners 465 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: to the show, they know that you can't touch that 466 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: money until a certain age, right, and so how can 467 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: you actually achieve fire? How can you retire early if 468 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: you can't touch this money until you're much much older 469 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: fifty and a half in most cases with those retirement accounts. Yeah, 470 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: it stinks to be putting that money in and say 471 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: I want to fire, but how do I touch it? Exactly? Yes, Yeah, 472 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: that's a major question for those of us who want 473 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: to retire early. But there are ways for us to 474 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: avoid those penalties of withdrawing money from those retirement accounts 475 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: that we just mentioned. One of them is the Rath 476 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: conversion ladder. That's one that you should consider, but just 477 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: know that it takes years of planning to pull this off. 478 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: But if you are smart enough and you've worked hard 479 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: enough to to be able to set aside that kind 480 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: of money, you can figure it out, right. I just 481 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: want to encourage folks to know that it is certainly possible. 482 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: And not only is it possible, but you want to 483 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: make sure that you take these steps in order to 484 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: avoid those additional fees and penalties. Yeah. Man, if you 485 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: attempt to withdraw funds from one of those retirement accounts 486 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, then you are going to pay a 487 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: ten percent penalty on the money that that you're withdrawing 488 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: from that account. That's obviously a major hit and it's 489 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: not something that that you want to just freely give 490 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: the government. And there are ways around it. You mentioned 491 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: the Rath conversion ladder. That's one way around it. And 492 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: there's also an arcane tax code provision called the seventy 493 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: two T rule. It's a way of distributing some of 494 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: the money from that retirement account that allows you to 495 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: take a set amount each year for a recurring number 496 00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: of years. You want to make sure you work with 497 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: a acts pro to ensure that it's done properly. You 498 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: don't want to screw that up, right, And everybody will 499 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: post a link in the show notes to to an 500 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: article that's incredibly helpful thinking about withdrawing money from those 501 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: accounts before you hit retirement age from our friend Brandon, 502 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: who runs a website called the Mad Scientist. Because there's 503 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: so much nuance involved, it would be really hard to 504 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: describe in full how you take advantage of these rules 505 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: on the show. It's so much easier to read his 506 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: long form article that he wrote in order to get 507 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: a good sense of how you actually pull that money 508 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: out early. But suffice it to say, there are multiple 509 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: strategies that can help you pull that money out without 510 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: paying the penalty that would typically be imposed. That's right, Joel, Okay. 511 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: One big question that we want to make sure we 512 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: get to as well is a lot of folks might 513 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: be wondering when have I saved up enough money? Like 514 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: when can I actually retire? And for a lot of folks, 515 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: having saved up twenty five times your annual expenses in 516 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: an investment portfolio, that is a great mile marker, and 517 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: so hopefully you're already tracking your expenses and so literally 518 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: you just add up your expenses for the year, multiply 519 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: that I and that number that result is your fire number. Typically, 520 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: for most folks, that's going to be the number that 521 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: they're gonna want to see in their retirement account. Having 522 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: that much money saved up that allows you to withdraw 523 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: four percent of that portfolio every single year without eating 524 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: away at your principal amounts. Again, this is a rule 525 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: of thumb. There's some folks who are probably willing to 526 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: to say that they've achieved fire when they have maybe 527 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: a little bit less than twenty five times there a 528 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: new expenses. But then there's others Joel, like you and I, 529 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: and we're looking to have a little bit more than that. Yeah, 530 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: I don't just want to tesla. I want someone driving 531 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: me around in it. You have a very high standard 532 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: of what you're looking for. I can see, and I'm 533 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna say a whole lot more because of 534 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: those ridiculous things I want. So in addition to that, though, 535 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: I think folks who are are looking to achieve fire, 536 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: they have a few other things they need to consider 537 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: when they're trying to determine how much that they should 538 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: take out of those accounts every year as well. Yeah, 539 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: if you're an idiot like me and you want a 540 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: Tesla chauffeur, it's gonna cost you and you're gonna have 541 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: to save up more money. I'm totally joking, by the way, 542 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: but yeah, in particular for fire folks, Matt, they do 543 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: have more to consider. And I think you know, when 544 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: you look at the numbers, saving up twenty five times 545 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: your annual expenses leading to a four percent withdraw rate 546 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: makes sense for so many people. But when you run 547 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: the numbers for people looking to retire early, it does 548 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: change the math just a little bit, right, because your 549 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: money has to last a whole lot longer if you 550 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: retire at age forty then if you retired at age 551 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: sixty five. So a little bit more conservative math, I 552 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: would say, is in order here. And again that's kind 553 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: of part of the reason that Lean fire. That's not 554 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: really on my radar. And I think at withdraw rate somewhere, 555 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: maybe a little bit closer to three and a half percent, 556 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: somewhere between three and a half and four percent is 557 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: a better rate to plan on when you're considering early retirement. 558 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: Maybe it's just me, Matt, but I'd rather plan ahead 559 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: a little bit more on the front end and and 560 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: work another year if I had to in in my 561 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: fire plan in order to make sure I saved up 562 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: ample funds as opposed to kind of chanting it and 563 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: hoping that the four percent withdrawal rate works out. And 564 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: it does in an overwhelming number of circumstances. But also think, yeah, 565 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: when we're talking about retiring super early, there's some potential 566 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: costs for a concern there with a four percent withdra 567 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: all rate. Well, the other thing to mention two is that, 568 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: I mean there's a spectrum in between fat fire and 569 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 1: lan fire. Right. Uh, you don't have to only go 570 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: bare bones where you're just barely scraping by in retirement. Uh, 571 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: and you're only living on the road in a really 572 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: really cheap used RV you know, ri, Yeah, exactly. Uh, 573 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ground in between that and having 574 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: a tesla plus a tesla chauffeur. Right, And so I 575 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: just wanted to mention that that there's a wide spectrum 576 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: that you don't have to commit to one or the other. 577 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: You can still continue to work, but maybe you don't 578 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: have to, you know, stay in a position that that 579 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: drives you crazy, or maybe it's an industry that you 580 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: just don't really like. Once you're within that spectrum, you 581 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: then have options. Right, So maybe you are working a 582 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: terrible job and you've achieved lean fire, Well, you don't 583 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: have to straight up and quit completely. You could then 584 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: maybe take a different job that pays a little bit less, 585 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: but mayne maybe you find way more fulfillments and happiness 586 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: within that position that happens to pay less, and then 587 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: you can continue to work in that position for for 588 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: as long as you want. And that's what's great about 589 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: pursuing financial independence overall, right, is that it does give 590 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: you that freedom netflix ability, those choices. So if you 591 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: save well over a good period of time, it gives 592 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: you the ability, like you said, to choose lower paying 593 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: work that's more fulfilling. That to me is one of 594 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: the most gratifying and beneficial parts of the movement towards 595 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: financial independence overall. And that's something else our listeners should 596 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: be aware of. There is a great calculator called when 597 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: I can retire on net worth of five and that 598 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: will help you kind of plan for your future. It's 599 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: easy to visualize what your numbers are and where you 600 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: need to get to in order to achieve financial independence. 601 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: It kind of lays out for you. Okay, I plugged 602 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: in the numbers. I am seventeen point three years away 603 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: at this savings rate from retirement, and so it can 604 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: really plant a seed, I think in your mind to 605 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: help you realize kind of how far along the path 606 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: you are, how much further you have to go, and 607 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: kind of put into perspective where you're at in regards 608 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: to pursuing fire altogether. And we'll make sure to link 609 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: to that in the show notes. Yeah, totally. What what 610 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: I love about that calculator is literally all you need 611 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: are two numbers like your income and your expenses, but 612 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: then it crunches the numbers four unit. Yeah, like you said, 613 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: it tells you the you know, the number of years 614 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: it is until you can potentially retire. I love that 615 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,239 Speaker 1: and and like you said, it can at the very 616 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: least kind of plan a seed. Uh. And Joel, one 617 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: other thing too that we wanted to mention is that, 618 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, like we're talking about this from the standpoint 619 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: of investing in the market, but we want folks to 620 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: know that there are alternatives to investing in the market 621 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: as well. Right, This is why that you know, you 622 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: and I both love real estate investing, there are tax benefits, uh, 623 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: and there is regular cash flow when it comes to 624 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: real estate as well. You know, sometimes I think there's 625 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: gonna be too much focus on the big nest egg amount, 626 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: right when really you're just looking to replace your income, 627 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: right You just want to have cash flow to be 628 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: able to comfortably cover your expenses. If it's helpful for 629 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: you to think on a more monthly time frame versus 630 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: like this giant number that you have to achieve. If 631 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: instead you can think, okay, cool, I know it costs 632 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: six thousand dollars for me to live every single month. 633 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: I need to find a way to replace that. Thinking 634 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: about it in that manner might allow you to uh 635 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: think through some of the different ways that you can 636 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: generate monthly cash flow, right, Like whether that be like 637 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: real estate. You know, some folks have written books, and 638 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: when you write a book and you continue to sell copies, well, 639 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: you continue to generate income from that, and that income 640 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: can support your financial independence lifestyle well into retirement. That 641 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: the the example you gave about somebody who needs six 642 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month, it made me think, what if 643 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: they had the goal of buying one rental property that 644 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: would cash flow five a month every single year, and 645 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: that's not easy to do in every single market, But 646 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: there are some people that could set up their challenge 647 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: in that way where they could achieve financial independence in 648 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: twelve years based on real estate investing alone. I think 649 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,719 Speaker 1: thinking about it in kind of a more monthly income 650 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,959 Speaker 1: granular level like that can kind of help people come 651 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: up with a more ingenuity approach to their goal achieving FIRE. 652 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: Because I don't know, like you, Matt, I get tired 653 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: of seeing the commercials for investment houses saying my retirement 654 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: numbers four point two million or my retirement numbers two 655 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: point nine million. It all feels so unachievable. It feels 656 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: so far off, and it feels like it's going to 657 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: take forever to get to that point. Granted, fire people 658 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: who are let's say, investing fifty seven thousand dollars a 659 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: year into a set by r A, they're going to 660 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: get there a whole lot quicker. But it is important 661 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: to note that there are other ways to do it. 662 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: It's not like the only way you can approach it 663 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: is to accrue just a massive nest egg of that 664 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: size in those tax of mantage retirement accounts. People are 665 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: getting creative with their approaches to fire, and there are 666 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: some cool people just completely changing the script with their 667 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: approach to how they're pursuing fire. Yeah, there are a 668 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,239 Speaker 1: lot of different avenues and approaches towards achieving fire, and 669 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: it's worth thinking through the different ways that you find 670 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: the most fulfilling, you know, the path to fire, like 671 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: if you decide it's for you, it's not a competition, 672 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: but you know, it can be a healthy challenge like 673 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: it was for me. For many of our listeners who 674 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: are stoked to save more money for retirement and to 675 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: have more control over their future, uh, including where and 676 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: how and when they work, and all of our money 677 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: journeys are going to look different. So give yourself some 678 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: grace if you do decide to pursue fire, and a 679 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: word of warning as well, realize that it can become 680 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: an unhealthy obsession when you have, you know, a certain 681 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: number that you're striving after. I think sometimes folks can 682 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: get a little too preoccupied with it and they forget 683 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: to live life here now along the way, Yeah, for sure, uh, 684 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: And Matt, of course, again, we totally resonate with the 685 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: fire movement. There's there's so much of this community offers 686 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: is a countercultural message really that can, when done well, 687 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: reflect a healthy view of spending and saving and and 688 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: that's kind of what's at the core of our message 689 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: on this show. So we would say to everybody out there, 690 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: don't attempt to live like everyone else. Right, most of 691 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: the people out there, most of your neighbors are in debt, 692 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: or at least half of them are, at least when 693 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: we're looking at the stats, right that bear out of 694 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: the financial problems that most of America is in. And 695 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: realize too that small changes over time can lead to 696 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: incredible results. If that giant retirement number I was just 697 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: talking about, if that overwhelms you like it does me, 698 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: know that small steps, uh, starting now, starting today, can 699 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: when continued over a long period of time, really make 700 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: a major impact on your life. And so fire isn't 701 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: gonna be a goal for every single one of us. 702 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: For those of you who are pursuing it, hopefully the 703 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: episode was helpful. And then for those of you who 704 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about it before, hopefully maybe some of 705 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: the tenants and some of the ways that people approach 706 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: their finances in the Fire movement, Hopefully that was helpful, 707 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: and you can take some of those tenants, some of 708 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: those practices kind of back into your financial life and 709 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: how you are attempting to save and invest in cut 710 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: costs as well. And one last little bit of encouragement too, 711 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: is that I feel like the media has made fire 712 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: look like something that's only for really high wage earners, 713 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: right like for the engineers, for the software engineers only, 714 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: and that it's not really attainable for a lot of 715 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: other folks. But that's certainly not the case. It's attainable 716 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: for school teachers, for photographers, for for podcasters. We even 717 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: have a chance, Joel, and find attendants. I mean, really, 718 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: anybody out there. We we know people in the movement 719 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: who have all sorts of different careers and jobs, and 720 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: you're right, I think sometimes that's how it gets pegged. 721 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: But those certainly aren't the only people participating in the movement. 722 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: It just depends on what you want your life to 723 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: look like. It's about the goals that you set for 724 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: for you and your family completely agree. Man. All right, 725 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: let's get back to the beer that we had on 726 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: this episode. Today. On the show, we had speedwayte out 727 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: by Alee Smith, brewing out of San Diego, Matt, what 728 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: were your thoughts on this beer? Man? Man? You know, 729 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: when I saw this can, I thought that this is 730 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: a beer I've had before. Um speedwayte Out sounds really familiar, 731 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: But I feel like I would have remembered it because 732 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: it's really really delicious, rich and robust. It's got a 733 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: little bit of sweetness going on, but then the aftertaste 734 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: it's a little dry. You know, it kind of has 735 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: those coffee notes going on with a little bit of 736 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: cocoa nibs. Has that sweetness upfront that I typically find 737 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: myself drawn to, but then it didn't end really heavy 738 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: where it felt like, you you know, ate like a 739 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: big piece of cake. Yeah. I really thought this is 740 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: gonna be a super huge beer that weighed me down, 741 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,719 Speaker 1: and it definitely wasn't the case. I agree this is 742 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: this beer is a true classic in the craft brewing world. Right. 743 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: It's from a brewery that's been around for quite a while, 744 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: and it's got, like you said, the coco nibs, the 745 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: dark chocolate notes, but it's still retains a pleasant sweetness 746 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: I think. And and then I really appreciated to a 747 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: little bit of toffee going along with the coffee and yeah, overall, 748 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: just a just a delicious stout. I'm a big fan, 749 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: don't under this beer has like kind of like a 750 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: cult following for who knows how many years, like twenty 751 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: years or something like that. Plus it's nice to switch 752 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: it up and have an Imperial Coffee stout right in 753 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: the middle of the summer. So, Joel, that's gonna be 754 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 1: it for our episode today. Man, Listeners, you can find 755 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: our show notes up on our website at how to 756 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: money dot com. Yeah, and if you haven't left or 757 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: a view yet for the show, we would appreciate if 758 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: you would hop on over to Apple Podcasts and leave 759 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: a nice note for other potential listeners to see. It 760 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: helps spread the word about the show and helps increase 761 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: the possibility of financial independence for everyone, and that's something 762 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: Matt and I feel passionate about. So all right, buddy, 763 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode. Until next time, 764 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.