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Speaker 1: Welcome to the inaugural Bob Left Sets podcast. Used to

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Speaker 1: podcast about ten years ago with Rhino, I was ahead

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Speaker 1: of the curve. We'll find out if I'm behind the

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Speaker 1: curve now. I'm now working with tune In. I'm in

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Speaker 1: the tune In office and studio in Santa Monica, and

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Speaker 1: I felt for the initial podcast would be best if

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Speaker 1: someone interviews me so you can learn a lot about me.

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Speaker 1: So I have my old friend who's the chief growth

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Speaker 1: officer of Insomniac, John Boyle. John, Hi, Bob, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for having me. Yes, so we've done this before.

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Speaker 1: We've done it to E d M Biz. We did

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Speaker 1: it on the Summit series Ship. But going back, okay,

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Speaker 1: you went to u c l A. Was your first

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Speaker 1: gig doing snow Core and those other concert promotions. None

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Speaker 1: of the first gig was booking shows at u c

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Speaker 1: l A. And then I was in a band. You

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Speaker 1: were in a band. I didn't know that. Um it

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Speaker 1: was Leonard Skettern meets Guns and Roses. No wonder you

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Speaker 1: love those? Of course I do. And what did you do?

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Speaker 1: You were the singer, know I was the drummer. You

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Speaker 1: were the drummer, really and as the manager. Okay, although

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Speaker 1: they always say the drummer is the business guy, so

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Speaker 1: it makes sense yourself. So we did. We did quite

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Speaker 1: well actually, and and then during college I started booking.

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Speaker 1: We did quite well. How far did you get? Well?

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Speaker 1: I mean we like tore it up and down. We

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Speaker 1: toward the west, we toward the Western US and colleges.

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Speaker 1: We were a college party band, really, so what was

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Speaker 1: a gig worth? Um? Not? It was worth a really

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Speaker 1: good time on some parties. And that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: it was about. I mean, what was it a grand fifte? No? No,

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Speaker 1: we were getting up to like five grand shows. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty good in case this uh business thing doesn't

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Speaker 1: work out. Okay, so you did that and then you

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Speaker 1: did shows it U c l A yeah, no, no.

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Speaker 1: And then then that led to uh, ESPN launched the

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Speaker 1: X Games and I got to book that initially, and

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Speaker 1: then there was the US Open, a surfing, and then

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Speaker 1: there was just all these lifestyle events. I as you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm from Lake Tahoe. Um, I grew up on skis.

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Speaker 1: I was a competitive ski racer, as you know. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about this, I'm sure, and uh, and I fell

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Speaker 1: into the surf skate snow scene at U c l A.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know. I grew up in Tahoe. I

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Speaker 1: really didn't know what anything was anything as a blue

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Speaker 1: collar kid. And then um, and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the surf skate snow thing blows up. I find myself

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Speaker 1: working with offspring and this is what this is like?

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Speaker 1: Um and uh and uh and yes nine two and

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Speaker 1: then and then Kevin Lyman, you know, shortly thereafter launches

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Speaker 1: the Warp Tour and so how were you involved with

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Speaker 1: the Warp Tour? Well, well, as I was doing my shows, UM,

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Speaker 1: I needed a real producer to produce them because I

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Speaker 1: was just a kid, and Kevin came in and produced them. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then when Kevin started the Warp Tour, he invited

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Speaker 1: me to be his sponsorship and marketing guy, which I did.

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Speaker 1: Simultaneous to that, I got a phone call from Irving

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Speaker 1: as Often and Steve Backer a Giant Record saying whatever

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Speaker 1: it is you do, can you do for us? And

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Speaker 1: you can do your side hustle, you do your other

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Speaker 1: hustle on the side, um, which was at the time

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Speaker 1: Warp Tour. And then and then um and then I

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Speaker 1: moved from Giant Records to Virgin Records and launched Snow Corps.

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Speaker 1: And then it's kind of been a you know, okay,

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Speaker 1: but then you then you turned into a manager and

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Speaker 1: you managed Exhibit. Yes I did. I managed Exhibit. I

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Speaker 1: managed Alien amp Farm, I managed quite a few rock bands.

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Speaker 1: I spent a couple of years of sanctuary. I was

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Speaker 1: there law before it was what you were at, the

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Speaker 1: same guys running it, but you're doing that, and then

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Speaker 1: it all came to a stop and you went for

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Speaker 1: an m b A. It did everything kind of slowed down. Um.

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Speaker 1: I was immune to the napster um wall that everybody

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Speaker 1: hit UM until a couple of years later. And then yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then I stopped and I went back and got

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Speaker 1: a a dual MBA from Colombia and the Hospital of

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Speaker 1: Business at Berkeley. Um. Okay. So when you got that NBA,

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Speaker 1: did you think you were going to come back to

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Speaker 1: the music business. I kind of thought I wouldn't come

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Speaker 1: back to the music business. But as um al Pacino

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Speaker 1: or Marco Corleone says in The Godfather three, the more

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Speaker 1: you try to get out, they pull you right back in.

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Speaker 1: And I got pulled right back in by another Italian

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Speaker 1: named Pasquale Rotella. Right, so you helped pasqual with his

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Speaker 1: deal with Live Nation. I was. I was very fortunate

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Speaker 1: to help Pascal off this deal. Okay, So without making

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Speaker 1: this whole podcast about you, that this is about you,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what we're talking about. What is the

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Speaker 1: status of the electronic music world today? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: the status UM is for Insomniac is incredibly healthy. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think their saturation in the festival business

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Speaker 1: at large in North America and in Europe. UM. But

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Speaker 1: the Juggernauts thrive and survive, right, UM, Why don't you

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Speaker 1: just for our audience in case they're not including, just

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Speaker 1: say what Insomniac does. UM. Insomniac runs the largest dance

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Speaker 1: music festivals in the world around the world, and they

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Speaker 1: are UM well Electric Daisy Carnival E d C in Vegas,

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Speaker 1: the flagship version in Vegas does forty thousand people a day.

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Speaker 1: It's the largest single weekend festival and certainly in North America,

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Speaker 1: maybe the world, I'm not quite sure. UM. And we've

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Speaker 1: we've launched it UM in Brazil, Mexico, India, the UK, Japan.

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Speaker 1: There's a big another Asian announcement coming. UM it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's been, it's it's been incredible being a part

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Speaker 1: of this and so and I'm a rock guy. You

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Speaker 1: know that. I know that. I know that. But we

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Speaker 1: all you know our hip to what's coming down the pike,

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Speaker 1: did you? Um? Although Pasqual I ran it him the

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Speaker 1: other day and he told me you're getting into hip

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Speaker 1: hop too. Now yeah, no, no, so Insomniac is getting

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Speaker 1: into hip hop. I mean, look, Pasqual is a genius.

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Speaker 1: He's an absolute genius. He's a visionary. He is the

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Speaker 1: number one, like he's the authority and dance music on

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Speaker 1: the entire planet. And when he pulled me back in

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Speaker 1: so to speak, five and a half years ago, I

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Speaker 1: really didn't know what I was in for. Um and

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Speaker 1: I couldn't be more grateful. Now you give good answers, um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if you Pasqual has been in the

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Speaker 1: business since like the early nineties for people, don't you

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Speaker 1: know it's like the ten thousand hours thing, Wide Awake,

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Speaker 1: since that's the company logo, Wide Awake since ninety three, right,

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Speaker 1: And it's funny you sit with all those guys, you

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Speaker 1: have stories, but you know, when it was the rave

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Speaker 1: culture et cetera. But obviously there's been a peak, let's

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Speaker 1: call it five four or five years ago, we still

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Speaker 1: have that same peak. No, I I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: think there was a peak. I think there was a

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Speaker 1: plateau about two years ago. UM. And so where I

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Speaker 1: really think the opportunity is now as in Asia. UM.

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Speaker 1: I've been spending a lot of my time in Asia,

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Speaker 1: South America, a lot of opportunity. But you got political instability,

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Speaker 1: you've got currency challenges, you've got all it's still third world.

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Speaker 1: That's why you need an NBA or ASIA. UM. Asia

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Speaker 1: is where, by the way, we can talk about this,

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Speaker 1: like the music business across the board. Asia's the opportunity. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but can we stop talking about me and talking about

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Speaker 1: just a couple more questions. What is driving attendees at

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Speaker 1: this point to electronic music festivals. Well, I think it's

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I know it's it's the element of community, um.

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Speaker 1: And it's also the element of being accepted. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: other music festivals, UM, you kind of have to fit

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Speaker 1: into a certain you know, just a certain style or

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Speaker 1: certain niche right at at at dance music festivals and

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Speaker 1: insomniac festivals in particular, you can be you and you

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Speaker 1: are accepted and welcomed and that's it's it's it's really

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Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. I mean like I feel like i've

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Speaker 1: I've been a part of making the world a better

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Speaker 1: place for the last few years. And that's the hard

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Speaker 1: thing to say, coming from dance music with all the

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Speaker 1: negative press that it gets, but it's true. You let

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Speaker 1: me ask you, what was your experience when you came

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Speaker 1: to E d C. Well, they have to go back.

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Speaker 1: I went to Hard Halloween the first time. Eric Kurtz,

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Speaker 1: wh's a guy with Bill Silva now part of the

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Speaker 1: Live Nation Empire. He says, you have to come, you

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Speaker 1: have to come, And it was USC where the now

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Speaker 1: there's a big dorm, but there was a big open

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Speaker 1: space and the funniest thing was running Two people said,

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Speaker 1: we were at the football game at USC. You're not

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Speaker 1: gonna believe what's going on and go. I was there, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So it was a separate culture and it was fascinating

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Speaker 1: going to E d C. I was just talking about

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Speaker 1: it last night. The single thing that made the biggest

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Speaker 1: impression was the helicopter ride there. I know, I knew

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Speaker 1: we were gonna get to the helicopter is for those

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Speaker 1: who don't know, you know, because it's electronic music festival.

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Speaker 1: You go, they got the pulsing lights and everything at

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Speaker 1: the helicopter station. Then they weigh you, which is not

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Speaker 1: encourage you. And it's an inherently frightening experience because not

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Speaker 1: the company we used, but the other company that flies

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Speaker 1: out of Vegas are the ones who crashed at the

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Speaker 1: Grand Canyon. So they walked the you know, helicopter to

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Speaker 1: the takeoffs face and they go and on the way there,

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Speaker 1: you were talking over the headphones and it was totally calm.

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Speaker 1: When I left at like four thirty in the morning,

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Speaker 1: I was with the guy from Live Nation Mexico and

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Speaker 1: a guy from Brazil, and you're with the George from

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Speaker 1: Ossessa in Mexico and Fernando from from Brazil. First of all,

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Speaker 1: in Brazil, he was talking about how many bodyguards he

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Speaker 1: had and height. They passed out because it was so

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Speaker 1: you know, early in the morning and late at night,

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Speaker 1: depending on how you want to see it. They passed

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Speaker 1: out within like fifteen minutes. It was just me and

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Speaker 1: the pilot and what happened was nothing happens fast in

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Speaker 1: the music business, or does it happen fast and for

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Speaker 1: or thirty in the morning. So I'm bs and with

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Speaker 1: a pilot while we're waiting to get who's gonna go

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Speaker 1: on the ride with us? And he says he was

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Speaker 1: in the military. I'm feeling incredibly calm. The guy flew

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Speaker 1: helicopters in the military. What could be better? But we

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Speaker 1: talked long enough. He didn't fly helicopters in the military.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't until he got out. He only been flying for

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Speaker 1: two years. What I know about helicopters is if the

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Speaker 1: rotator stops going, if the rotor stuff going, it just plunges.

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Speaker 1: People tell me otherwise, whatever, So if there's a funk up,

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Speaker 1: you die, whereas with a plane there's a good fighting chance.

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Speaker 1: So inherently there's some anxiety. Well, and I mean Bill

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Speaker 1: Graham died exactly, and the uh Stevie Ray Vaughan died,

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Speaker 1: and the CIA um the CIA exact died. I forget

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Speaker 1: his name, but right, there's so many people, you know,

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Speaker 1: the helicopter accidents. But going to the e d C itself,

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Speaker 1: one thing they do not gonna you know, stroke you

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Speaker 1: on insomniac. Once you get in, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: pay anything else. Every other festival is nickel and dime

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Speaker 1: me you. And then they had a spot where you

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Speaker 1: could get your phones charged. And it's almost like that

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Speaker 1: old song too many Fish in the seat, Short ones,

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Speaker 1: tall ones, big ones, small ones. All kinds of people

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Speaker 1: were out and it was accepted and there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of money spent that was unnecessary. What I mean

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Speaker 1: by that. There were timed explosions at certain hours and

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Speaker 1: fireworks and it made you feel like you were at

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Speaker 1: something special. Of course, it's it's like, you know, the

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Speaker 1: funny thing is, we live in a society where everything

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Speaker 1: gets pressed. So theoretically, if you want to Google, you

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Speaker 1: can find out about anything. But because there's so much information,

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Speaker 1: their secret worlds, and when you're at when you're out

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Speaker 1: in the desert at this racetrack outside of Vegas, you

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Speaker 1: really feel like everybody should come once just to see

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Speaker 1: what the funk is going on here, because they really

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Speaker 1: don't have any idea, and especially that all Coachella Lollapalooza,

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Speaker 1: they always cover them. Although The New York Times didn't

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Speaker 1: send somebody to coach Hell at this point because they

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Speaker 1: felt they weren't last year, they felt they weren't breaking

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Speaker 1: any new ground musically, So there's a there's not as

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Speaker 1: much news about these things. They used to with their experiences,

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Speaker 1: and the millennials are about experiences. You have to go

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Speaker 1: just see what's going on. Well, no, and uh, thank

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Speaker 1: you for coming. When you did come, it was I mean,

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Speaker 1: like a d C is the biggest production on the planet.

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Speaker 1: You saw it firsthand. There is, I've seen them all.

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Speaker 1: There is no bigger production. And by the way, I

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Speaker 1: see the cost structure that goes behind it, like it's

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Speaker 1: the biggest production on the planet. Well, the funny thing is,

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Speaker 1: you know you're at the race track and you see

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Speaker 1: that many trailers. You know, you know it's a really

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Speaker 1: big operation. Not to mention the fact I've been to

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Speaker 1: Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but I've never been to like a

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Speaker 1: NASCAR track. Whenever you see the banks and it was

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Speaker 1: there who talking we were hanging I was talking to

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Speaker 1: afro Jack because everybody's hanging out is an interesting situation, right,

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Speaker 1: everybody's there. No bit to your point, it's a two

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Speaker 1: mile track, right, So the NASCAR tracks run between one

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Speaker 1: and two miles. It's a two mile track. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's a huge footprint. Um and you know what, it's

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Speaker 1: really a beautiful show. Hey, it's left stets. I thank

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Speaker 1: you for your time. Thanks for listening to my inaugural podcast.

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Speaker 1: Remember to subscribe on tune in, iTunes or wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Okay, but now it's time to switch gears,

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Speaker 1: as promise. Thank god, let's stop talking about me. That's

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Speaker 1: time for you to quiz me. All right. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get a little crazy. The key is

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Speaker 1: not to leave anything in the green room, so we

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Speaker 1: do no preparation. I don't know what it sounds like.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a TV show now. I don't know I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be hit with, but go for it. So let's

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Speaker 1: be clear. I begged Bob. So. Bob and I first

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Speaker 1: met in n at the what was then known as

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Speaker 1: the Aspen Artist Development con Correct it's now known as

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Speaker 1: Aspen Live, and Bob writes about this every single fucking year.

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Speaker 1: It's a big part of your life, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: so much of my social life is based on that,

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Speaker 1: you know people. For those who don't know, you can

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Speaker 1: google it Aspen Live. It's the antithesis of usual music festival.

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Speaker 1: There's no bands and it is an Aspen and to

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Speaker 1: go skiing. And some people think it's a circle jerk,

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Speaker 1: but the converse happens. Because there's no bands. You go skiing,

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Speaker 1: you really get to know people. That's how I know John.

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Speaker 1: And the key point we were in the Buffalo Club

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Speaker 1: and he asked for John is like the Tumbler and

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Speaker 1: the cat Skills and he's asking for predictions. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what that means, but whatever, he's the guy

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Speaker 1: who makes every who makes everything happen. I mean the

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Speaker 1: straw that stirs the drink. That's that's something. In addition,

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Speaker 1: that's what Reggie Jackson said when he was at the Yankees.

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Speaker 1: But I don't want to mix the metaphors here. At

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Speaker 1: the Cats Skills and most of those hotels are closed,

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Speaker 1: they had a guy who ran around called the Tumbler,

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Speaker 1: who always made activities spontaneously. So you set up an

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Speaker 1: asked for predictions, and you had given me ship before that,

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Speaker 1: and I said, and I said, within twelve minutes Geffen Record,

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Speaker 1: twelve minutes, twelve months Geffen Records would close, which it did.

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Speaker 1: But that was one thing. But that's how we met well.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know you at the time, and and um,

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Speaker 1: I look at I look at Bob as like my

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Speaker 1: older brother from another mother. He's not enough to be

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Speaker 1: my dad. Um, he would be my older brother. And

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Speaker 1: I don't have an older brothers or any brothers at all.

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Speaker 1: Um um and uh and And we were both part

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Speaker 1: of that first Aspen conference, right, very involved, absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: And I think I hosted, I was the MC of

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Speaker 1: the dinner or something. And and I think I called you,

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Speaker 1: and I've I've admitted to this. Um. I think I

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Speaker 1: called you the annoying bald guy. It was that or worse.

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Speaker 1: It was definitely a put out. I've blocked it from

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Speaker 1: my memory, but I remember the insult. So I apologize

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Speaker 1: to you for probably the hundredth time here. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've had a lot of psychotherapy at this point. You know,

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Speaker 1: people think that I'm a guy who's very honest, and

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Speaker 1: when you were in the music business, you are very honest.

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Speaker 1: You're in the music business long enough, you know there's

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Speaker 1: the surface and the layer beneath the surface, and people

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Speaker 1: think if you're intense on the surface, you ust to

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Speaker 1: be a real motherfucker underneath. But I am who I am,

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Speaker 1: So therefore people may be thrown off guarded first, but

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Speaker 1: then they realized, you know, there's no artifice underneath it.

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Speaker 1: So ultimately you know this is me. Yeah, and you know, um,

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Speaker 1: I think so. So Bob and I have have um

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Speaker 1: we've we've done some interviews together a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: a few different things. And what I usually tell everybody

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Speaker 1: out of the gate is this guy has one badass

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Speaker 1: motherfucking skier, like he fucking rips. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: this is coming from a guy who grew up in

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Speaker 1: Tahoe and was the Junior olympiad. So Bob is a

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Speaker 1: really um not that you I did win all the

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Speaker 1: ski races in the first few years, but you are

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Speaker 1: really really good. And I think that was something that

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Speaker 1: brought us together. Absolutely our roots in the mountains. Our

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Speaker 1: roots are in the mountains. So all right, so let's

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Speaker 1: let's talk about you. Connecticut, right right. I grew up

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Speaker 1: a Connecticut in the suburbs Afield, Connecticut. That's fifty miles

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Speaker 1: from New York City. Why that's important is that's New

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Speaker 1: York media, New York Radio, New York television. At the time,

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Speaker 1: it was rare for someone to commute to New York

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Speaker 1: from Fairfield. But now it's more common, but my mother

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Speaker 1: was a real cultural vulture. We were constantly going in

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Speaker 1: to see plays, musicals. We would go with school. But

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Speaker 1: staying with what I said earlier, we had the three

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Speaker 1: networks plus three independent stations. The only place that had

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Speaker 1: more independent television stations West Los Angeles with four, and

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Speaker 1: of course we had multiple A M radio stations, certainly

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Speaker 1: seventy seven. We had Cousin Brucy, who's now on the

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Speaker 1: satellite again. I was a big Cousin Brucy fan. And

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Speaker 1: we had Scott Muni number one in the nation, the

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Speaker 1: Scott Munich Show, who flipped over to FM Okay and

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Speaker 1: FM Underground radio started in San Francisco in nineteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: one could say nineteen sixty six with Tom Donahue, and

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Speaker 1: started in New York in nineteen seventy seven WO R

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Speaker 1: F M, and it had all at Scott Muny who

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Speaker 1: eventually went to w n e W. But I was there,

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Speaker 1: being in the New York radio market, we could get

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Speaker 1: all those stations, so I heard all those records. So

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Speaker 1: what was the what was the moment? What was the

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Speaker 1: moment you knew that music was your calling or did

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Speaker 1: you not know because you went and got a you

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Speaker 1: you went, you're an attorney. Many people don't know that

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Speaker 1: I am an attorney. But we're getting ahead of the story.

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Speaker 1: You know, generations are changing and people are rewriting history. Okay,

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Speaker 1: people say that, oh, the Beatles filled a vacuum after

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Speaker 1: JFK got shot like everybody else my age. I certainly

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Speaker 1: remember where I was when JFK got shot. I was

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Speaker 1: at the bowling Alley. Okay, we were watching it on TV.

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Speaker 1: But the Beatles were just a revolution in sound. It was.

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Speaker 1: They didn't start to play the record so right after

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Speaker 1: Christmas because radio stations locked their playlists over Christmas. It

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Speaker 1: was within twenty four hours. Okay, everybody started to grow

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Speaker 1: the here immediately, everybody got a guitar at that time.

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Speaker 1: Before that was folk music. We haven't had hooting any

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Speaker 1: shows on television. And I had learned to play a

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Speaker 1: nylon string guitar, but it wasn't until after the Beatles

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Speaker 1: that I got an electric guitar. It was you never

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Speaker 1: talked about this, Well, here we have it, and I

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Speaker 1: was a shifty guitar player. Let me be very clear.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's funny because you listen to the radio

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Speaker 1: and they play some of these records. Some of these

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Speaker 1: songs are incredibly easy to play, like Gloria It's three uh.

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Speaker 1: Van Morrison's song made uh popular in America. My Shadows

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Speaker 1: of the Night um and uh um. Dirty Water that

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Speaker 1: was another easy one. But I had my friend Mark

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Speaker 1: and my Mark. My friend Mark, remember he traded his

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Speaker 1: I got an e S three thirty five and we're

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Speaker 1: playing in his bedroom one day and he said, well,

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Speaker 1: let's change keys, and that's when I knew I was done.

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Speaker 1: I was also embarrassed. I was with a guy who

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Speaker 1: still plays in bands, and they were gonna get gigs,

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Speaker 1: and I felt like I was not good enough. But

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Speaker 1: I subsequently got a very I worked for a summer

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Speaker 1: and I bought an expensive acoustic guitar, which my mother

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Speaker 1: put in the crawl space and has some mold on

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Speaker 1: it now Gibbs I still have it. They say they'd

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Speaker 1: fix it at Gibbs Back whatever the gifts, you know,

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Speaker 1: they said they would fix it. And it was really good,

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Speaker 1: and I played a little bit first year of college,

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Speaker 1: but college was so disorienting. After living in the suburbs,

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Speaker 1: I went to college in Vermont. I did not play

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Speaker 1: after that university, No, I went to Middlebury College, which

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Speaker 1: is a half hour from so going to college. Um,

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Speaker 1: I I could have gone to Middlebury Columbia. I didn't

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Speaker 1: go to Columbia primarily because a guy had been on

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Speaker 1: a summer program with wanted to rule with me, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to ruin with them, and I know

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Speaker 1: I would get out of it. So if I go

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Speaker 1: to Middlebury, I don't have to worry about it. The

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Speaker 1: middle Berries were really the skiing kicked in right. No, no, um,

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Speaker 1: if you want to talk skiing for a minute, I

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Speaker 1: grew up, as I said, connected when you still used

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Speaker 1: to snow in Connecticut. And my friend Bobby Hickey used

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Speaker 1: to ski and he let me try his skis, and

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Speaker 1: I convinced myself convinced my parents to buy me skis.

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Speaker 1: It was the skis bindings and polls for ten dollars.

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Speaker 1: And we used to ski in Bobby Hicky's backyard with

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Speaker 1: a vertical drop of maybe twenty five Then then you

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Speaker 1: walk back up. Of course, you walk back up and

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Speaker 1: you have the floodlight you see at night whatever. And

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Speaker 1: in the days of flannel line jeans, So in sixth grade,

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Speaker 1: Mr Conley, he showed a thirty minute promotional video from

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Speaker 1: Mount Snow and I could, which is a large ski

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Speaker 1: area in southern Vermont. I've been there. You've been there,

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Speaker 1: must have been like for work. It was it say,

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Speaker 1: if you can ski in the East, there's no reasons,

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Speaker 1: so it certainly isn't. But it's a large skier in Vermont.

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Speaker 1: I want to put Mount Snow down. But we went.

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Speaker 1: My family got hooked, and then we rented a house

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Speaker 1: in Vermont, and then we bought a house in Manchester, Vermont,

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Speaker 1: and I was skiing thirty five to fifty days a

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Speaker 1: year before I went to Middlebury. Yes, I went to

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Speaker 1: It was either both Dartmouth and Middlebury have their own

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Speaker 1: ski areas, but Dartmouth has a lower altitude and is

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Speaker 1: in New Hampshire. And when I applied to college, Dartmouth

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Speaker 1: was not scheduled to go co ed for a number

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Speaker 1: of years. And I went to Middlebury it was it's

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Speaker 1: still very beautiful campus and they have their own ski

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Speaker 1: area and I could go skiing every day, which I did.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is of everything that happened to me

424
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: in college, okay, the one thing I did in college

425
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 1: was ski That's the one thing I still do forget

426
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: what of courses I took. The people are hong with whatever.

427
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: So I did get something out of college. And then

428
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: I lived in Utah for a couple of minutes, starving

429
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: on the free style UH ski circuit. I mean the

430
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: first year I was in It's funny. I'm talking about

431
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: skiing as the post to what I might have happened

432
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,959
Speaker 1: in college. First year I was in Vermont was one

433
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: of the great years. Ever. By the way, you're where

434
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: you're you're wearing a veil vest, So you know it's

435
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: funny because when I lived in Utah, you pooh pooed veil.

436
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: A good friend of mine was this guy who Scott

437
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: brooks Bank, who was the winner of the UH Freestyle Championship,

438
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 1: and he had a house in Utah and my friend

439
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: lived there, so is there all the time. And he

440
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: come came from veil. I said, veil, it's flat. They

441
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 1: actually have one very steep bump run called high Line,

442
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: which he trained on. But I used to pooh pooh veil.

443
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: Then I got involved with my girlfriend twelve years ago,

444
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: and since the seventies they have a condo in the

445
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: closest building to the listed veil and I'm getting Knowlted.

446
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: Now I don't poop poo veil so much. But after

447
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: grad the next three years I was in college, it

448
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: was very bad snow years before many skier he has

449
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: had um snow guns. And I went to live in Utah.

450
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: I got a job at the gold Mine. Yes, I

451
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: got a job right out of college. You moved to Utah.

452
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: I mean, let's be very clear. It was a totally

453
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: different world from today. There was a middle class. Nobody

454
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: I know went straight after college. If there were recruiters

455
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: on campus, I certainly didn't meet with them. And I

456
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: signed up for the l s a T because my

457
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: father wanted me to take it. And my friends knocked

458
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: on the door the night before said you're not gonna

459
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: take that, are you. Let's go to Montreal, so we did.

460
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: I didn't take it. So I went to Yes, of

461
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: course to do what Ski. No. We it was just

462
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: to do something for that day, Okay, But I didn't

463
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: take the l s a T. And going to Middlebury Middlebury.

464
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: Now Middlebury has got in subtraction because they had a

465
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: big protest there last spring. But before that people would

466
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: say Middlebury is at some place in Connecticut. No one

467
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 1: knew Middlebury College except in ski areas. It's because it's

468
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: the best college with a ski area. Okay, it's a

469
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: dart miss is a thing unto itself. But everywhere you go,

470
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: every skied the people from Middlebury. And I lined up

471
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: a job at the gold Miner's daughter. Best job you

472
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: can get being a waiter. You never have to work

473
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: when the lifts are open. And I got it because

474
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: I went to Middlebury. But I came to l A.

475
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: I worked in a sporting goods store. Uh, it no

476
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: longer exists as Hollywood and Highland and Star sporting goods

477
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: and all the stars. Just coming out of conversation, this

478
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: was just with Jack Nicholson, just before he went to

479
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: film One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and he was

480
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: so cool, and I worked different months. The guy wanted

481
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: to give me the store. I was waiting to quick

482
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: to go back to Utah. Then to a freak accident,

483
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: I broke my leg. I went skiing. It's snow summit.

484
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a ridiculous story. Should snow summits?

485
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: Just for those people don't know, these are ski areas

486
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: in a very high altitude within two hours of l

487
00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 1: A the car I went in literally burned up, and

488
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: and the only skis I had were very long skis

489
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: and short skis, and I took the short skis, feeling

490
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: that no one would have a ski rack, but the

491
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: bindings would not get tight enough. The bindings came off

492
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: at ten ft in mid air and I landed and

493
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: my leg was broken, and so I missed my job

494
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: in Utah. I took the l s A t and

495
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: I end up getting a job at Snowburg. To the

496
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: place still exists. Alton Snowburg are now connected the right

497
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: next to each other, little Cotwood Canyon, and at some

498
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 1: place called the bird Feeder, which is right by the tram,

499
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 1: where you sell hot talks, and I would curry favor

500
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: with people by giving them large ice cream cones. I

501
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: did not know that at the time Snowbourg was the

502
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: epicenter of freestyle skiing. Everybody would come and then I mean,

503
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: what happened was I was waiting for the tram very

504
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: late in the season and I missed then ski till

505
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: the end of January because I broke my leg in

506
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: the beginning of November. And these guys, this guy ran

507
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: into said, oh, all the freestyles were going to Mammoth

508
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: and they came in for ice cream cones, which they

509
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: would every day, and you get big scoops, big scoops

510
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: huge and they said, yes, we're going to uh Mammoth

511
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: for a month. And they said, come to this frat house.

512
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a meeting on the University of Utah campus.

513
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: And I went there on a snowy night where they

514
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: were playing physical graffiti, and uh, I gave him my

515
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: fifty bucks. They went to bang the bumps at Heavenly Valley.

516
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: If you really know, skiing the barrel in Heavenly Valley

517
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: is a big thing. Nobody had any money, said. They

518
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: used acetone to peel off the tickets for people's wickets

519
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: and then use those tickets, and um, I got. I

520
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: stayed up all night the night before I went to Reno,

521
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: where I had to go to the Hard Ski Factory,

522
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: exchanged some skis and listening to physical Graffiti, and I

523
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: got stopped for speeding because that was after they lowered

524
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: the speed limit. There didn't used to be a speed

525
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: limit in Nevada. That was fifteen dollars. I was really

526
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: really scrape and I went to the Heart Ski Factory

527
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: and got some new skis and then drove to Mammoth.

528
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: It's a really beautiful drive. People have no idea that

529
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: you think of mountains as being condo in Utah, as

530
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: they say, But if you drive from Reno the back road,

531
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: uh the tackside of Yosemite, it's beautiful. And I got

532
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: to Mammoth a little early. The gig was we were

533
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: gonna meet at the stop side a nude. I didn't

534
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: even really know these people, and I drove up the

535
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: access road and that was the first time I heard

536
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: tangled up in Blue by uh Bob Dylan, and I

537
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: met these guys at the stop side. I didn't think

538
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: I could stay, didn't have enough money, and I called

539
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: my parents deciding whether I could stay, and I got

540
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: the thirty five dollar so I could stay on two

541
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: dollars and thirty cents a day. There was a spring

542
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: pass and thirty cents a day. Okay, it was a

543
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: spring pass you could buy for fifty bucks and everybody.

544
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: I still have contact with those people. That was the

545
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: best month of our lives. Literally in the right about

546
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: still regular. That's how I really I got back into

547
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: led Up and listen to the physical graffiti every day.

548
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: I was really into them in the beginning, but ten

549
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: years gone, which I loved, and then I decided I

550
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: would compete on the freestyle circuit. So we can go back.

551
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: We can go back to to your history because I

552
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: want to go back there. But can we not agree

553
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: that led Zeppelin is the greatest band that ever walked

554
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: the face of the earth. I'm would as you say

555
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: something different than we used saying college. Somebody said to

556
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: be in college, name a better record than Who's Next?

557
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: Now you might be able to namber led Zeppelin is

558
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: a unique thing. What I say, people say, when you

559
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: go to a desert island, what would you take? I said,

560
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: I take Joni Mitchell, Blue and a C d C

561
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: Back in Black, So certainly leads up. One is great,

562
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 1: although I pretty much stop. Although I certainly have all

563
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: the records I thought presence was. You know, the records

564
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: after physical Graffiti were a disappointment. But those records are great.

565
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: I mean one too, or well one see like right

566
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: when I see you know your time is gonna come?

567
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: You know, lion cheating hurting. I say that to myself

568
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: when I ski that and and uh little feats easy

569
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: to slip, but Just to go back to your earlier question,

570
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: my mother was a culture vulture in our family. My

571
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: father used to always say, well, we don't have the

572
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: big house because it's the house that we moved into

573
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: six months after I was born, and my mother only

574
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: sold it ten years ago. And uh, but there was

575
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: an unlimited amount of money for cultural expeditions. If I

576
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: want to go to the movies, my mother really she

577
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: would go to these jew uh Judith Chris movie weekends.

578
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: There was always money for movies. There was always money

579
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: for concerts. She would hit me to something. She said,

580
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: oh Country Joe in the Fish, I see their new haven,

581
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: and I would get tickets. So yes, I was very

582
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: into it before you know. Uh, he knew very early

583
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: on this was part of you, right. And as I say,

584
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, if I go on about this, we don't

585
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: have time to go on. You know, there's a lot

586
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: of important history elements. Okay. Certainly, when I got to college,

587
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: I had more records than anybody else, and therefore I

588
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: curried favor with all the upper classmen, and I had

589
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: two radio shows. But then when my generation took over,

590
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: they were jealous and I got demoted. I could be

591
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: on once every other week, and I said, forget it.

592
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: So then I taught right. And then I taught a

593
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: course about you know, in Middlebury they have the four

594
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: one four system. You take one course intensively in the winter,

595
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: and I convince the administration to let me teach a

596
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: story about rock music, and um, there's a lot of

597
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: elements that come together here. I was in You had

598
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: to take an English course that was the one required

599
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: course other than your major, and I never did this again.

600
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: I called the professor and asked him whether I could

601
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: do something creative. I did, and I got an A.

602
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: In Middlebury, nobody got an A. And I called my

603
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: mother from the pay phone and I said, I'm gonna

604
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: be a writer, and she laughed, okay. So I felt like, okay,

605
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: I graduate from college either I'm gonna move to school. Absolutely,

606
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: I graduated from college. That's the first first couple of

607
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: weeks of college. But then, just to be very clear,

608
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I took the creative writing course.

609
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: This is two and the guy wrote c stories unsuccessfully

610
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: and you go to Middlebury's small school. There was only

611
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: one creative writing teacher, and he said my stories needed

612
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: a twist. I said, a twist do you ever hear

613
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: the new journalism, which is already old? At Twist, I

614
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: would read in class it was like spring time for

615
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: Hitler because he had all of these people who were

616
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, prep school kids whatever. So I felt when

617
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: I was in college. When I graduated, I would either, um,

618
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: go try to get a job with Rolling Stone in

619
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: San Francisco, or try to pursue the ski thing. But

620
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: I was so burned out on writing that I pursued

621
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 1: the ski thing. Yeah, but it serves you well because

622
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got this passion right, and it's part

623
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: of your life. And by the way, how important has

624
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: skiing been in your career? I mean, Okay, there's a

625
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: song on the Run with the Pack album called simple

626
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: Man by Bad Company, and it's an incredible record. He goes,

627
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: freedom is the only thing meads and damn to me.

628
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: And when you are out skiing, it's one of the

629
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: few things you can do with total freedom. You get

630
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: out in your car, you drive a hundred miles an hour,

631
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: You're gonna get stopped. Okay, ski slope you can do

632
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: whatever you want. You can kill yourself, hopefully you won't, okay.

633
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: And the other great thing about skiing is when you ski,

634
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: you can't think about anything else you'll fall. You can

635
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: think about something on the lift, but once you ski

636
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: requires totally being in the moment the sensation. The only

637
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: sensation I found better than the skiing is sex. And

638
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: you can ski whenever you want. It can't necessarily get

639
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: laid whatever you want, so I don't want, you know.

640
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: It's one of these things skis and skis like music now,

641
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: which is unfortunate when I they're both mature. When I

642
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: started skiing in the sixties, they were still developing new

643
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: ski resources. There were all these great technological revolutions. The

644
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: big revolution in skiing years ago was the high speed lift.

645
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: Now it's about it's a more of a middle to

646
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: upper class sport, and the same ski areas exist. It's

647
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: the same thing. In music. It used to be a

648
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: renegade business. You would go to concerts in the sixties.

649
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: The sound was terrible and people couldn't play. Wasn't until

650
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: the mid seventies of the sound was good. Now most

651
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: of the concerts are done by either Live Nation or

652
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: a g there's three major labels. There's not the renegade

653
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: spirit what we saw in the last twenty years in

654
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: the internet sphere was that renegade. There was always something

655
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: new that's been consolidated too, So that's unfortunate, but it's

656
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: it's exciting to be at something when it's being developed,

657
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: just like snowboarding, although snowboarding is now going downhill because

658
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: it's reached the peak. I agree, I agree. I think

659
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna I think skiing will come back in a

660
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: in a little bit in the conversation, but where we

661
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: need to get to is, Okay, you go to Mammoth,

662
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: you've done Park City. You go to Mammoth to get

663
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: your law degree, and then you end up in the

664
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: music business. No. No, let's be very clear. I always

665
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: wanted to be in the music business, and I knew

666
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: at the time it's changed. At this point, there were

667
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: six major labels. Three of them were run by lawyers.

668
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: My father is a real estate appraiser. I have no connections.

669
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: I figure, if I go to law school, it will

670
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: help me get a start in the music business. I

671
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: went to law school. It was so boring and terrible.

672
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: Is this after Mammoth? Yes, because I got the world's

673
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: worst Okay, just to go back the first year I'm

674
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: in Utah. Let's be very clear, this is it's Snowbird.

675
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: And the second year I go back to Snowbird and

676
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: I choke on the freestyle circuit. Okay, Then there's a

677
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: new rival one that I'm competing in. Then I get

678
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: the world's worst case of my the nucleosis. And I

679
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: applied to law school and I didn't think I would go,

680
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: and then I was so down on and I went

681
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: and it was terrible. I was going to drop out.

682
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: But it was literally the world's where. You know, people

683
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: are one thing that bothers me about society in general,

684
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: and certainly the music business people are always rewriting history.

685
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: But I say, it was the worst year in the

686
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: history of snow in the West Coast. And it was

687
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: seventy seventy. There was no snow, and so I called

688
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: to telling people, hey, you know, should I come to Utah?

689
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: Said don't come, we're leaving. There's no snow. But then

690
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,959
Speaker 1: it happened again two thousand and eleven, two thousand and twelve,

691
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: and they started writing about seventy seven. So I went

692
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: to law school in l A. And I fell in

693
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: with someone moment. It was my first big romance that

694
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: carried me through law school. You've written about this too, right,

695
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: So since you go to law school, I'm gonna pass

696
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: the bar. I mean, I'm not someone to go three

697
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: years for law school and not take the bar. So

698
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: one of the reason you want to live in l A.

699
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: Because that's the epicenter of the music business. So I

700
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: used to go to the wreck store. I would do

701
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: all my studying, Like the first three days of Sunset

702
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: no no, I certainly went to Tower on Sunset. I

703
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: went to a place which was called Grammy and Granny

704
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: on Gaily Avenue, and there was also in Westwood, Okay.

705
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: They had all the promo records, expensive promo records to

706
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: forty nine. You get other things for dollar ninety nine.

707
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: There's so many records I bought that I took a

708
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: chance on Carlabanas debut album to this day, one of

709
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: my favorite albums. I bought as a promo. The first

710
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: Alan Parsons project record brought us a promo. So many

711
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: things so I bought. I mean, I was a regular customer.

712
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: They would save records like you know the Eagles long

713
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: run comes out, They'd save a they had the promo.

714
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: So I was heavily invested in going two shows. That

715
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: was my passion. Living in l A. Law school was secondary.

716
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: So when I graduated from law school, you take the

717
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: bar in July, but you don't find the results till

718
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: the week before Thanksgiving. And certainly if I didn't pass

719
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: the bar, I was going to take it again. But

720
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: in the interim I got a job because I wasn't

721
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: gonna try to get my real my dream job in

722
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: the music business. I got a job with an entertainment

723
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: lawyer whose work was primarily in the movie business. Yes,

724
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: Sam Pearl Motter. He is famous for one thing. If

725
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: he's famous, primarily he broke here the deal for the

726
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: George Foreman grill. But he represented a lot of people,

727
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: and I was the only guy wanted. He made more

728
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: money from the George Foreman of course, of course, and

729
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: he uh um. At the time. He represented people who

730
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: had had songs on the Bad Girls album from Donna

731
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: Summer because of a legal issue, she'd left her management,

732
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 1: her publishing, everything, and I worked on those royalties. In addition,

733
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: they had songs in major movies, and I negotiated those deals.

734
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: Then I hated, I passed the ball are and I quit,

735
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: and I said I'm going out to be a manager,

736
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: and then I starved and he called me back in

737
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: because he'd gotten a really big client at the time,

738
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: Cannon Films and were the biggest independent film company of

739
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: the early eighties, and uh work with that, And then

740
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: I got a job working with this guy, Charles Band.

741
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: Charles is still around. He's basically in the horror genre

742
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: and at the time we had multiple divisions. He started

743
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: the first independent video cassette company, which were horror movies.

744
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: He made movies, we had video games, the Halloween and

745
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: Texas Chainsaword video games. We also made records. He put

746
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: to me more in her first movie, Parasite in three D,

747
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: and we made a deal with her husband, Freddie Moore,

748
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: who had one of the hip bands. It was a

749
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: big scene in the late seventies. Do Wa've seen in

750
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: l A. He had a band called the Cats. They

751
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: were then called the New Cats Ultimate they were called

752
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: Boy Boy next Door and we made a record with them,

753
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: produced by Mark Goldenberg from the Cree Tones, and I

754
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: hung with Freddie into me every day for a year.

755
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: The funny thing I was driving my girlfriend coming home

756
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: from Hamilton's two weeks ago. We were going on Sam

757
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: Santa Monica Boulevard, and I said, oh, that's where I

758
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: used to work on Fairfax. And then the next block

759
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: is this Mexican place, Los Tacos. We used to go

760
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: there every day and Freddy would put a quarter of

761
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: the jukebox and it would be he's so shy physical

762
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: and I forget the third track because he was a

763
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: rocker who had a thing for the pop stuff. And

764
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 1: then to me went to make Blame It in Rio,

765
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: and a lot of things happened. Let me let me

766
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: tell this story. Though we made the record, the record

767
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: came out, and then Freddie did not tell me that

768
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: he was invited Clive Davis to the gig, and I

769
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: felt squeezed out, which I was what do you have

770
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: to know about musicians is they're desperate. They only have

771
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 1: one chance. They will fuck over anybody to get where

772
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: they want. And you have to understand it's rational because

773
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: if you're a manager, you can always get another act.

774
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: If you're a musician, you have one shot. So I

775
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: felt fucked over by the band and Freddie. He ultimately

776
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: made it go. It's by one chance, but then Clive

777
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: passed anyway, and then Charles called me out karma, big

778
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: believer in that not necessarily instant, although it's instant in

779
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: this case. So uh. Then Charlie called me up and said,

780
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: did you see this article in the newspaper about this

781
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: band that throws meat into the audience? And I said, yeah,

782
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: band called Wasp. This is says I want to put

783
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: that band in one of our movies. We've made a

784
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: previous movie, Metal Storm in three D, which followed Jaws

785
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: three D into the movie theater. So we're making I

786
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: knew how to make a movie back when the for

787
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, uh, video cams, etcetera. I literally know how

788
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: to do it, particularly in three D, whichuse me. I said,

789
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: it's specifically in three D. Well, we knew how to

790
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: do that too. But this movie we're making called Rage War.

791
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: It started the guy who ended up being bull at

792
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: night Court and I became very tight with the band

793
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: band Wasp, and they said, we sell out the country Club.

794
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: At the time, the country Club was the big club

795
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: out in Recita, held about a thousand people. I think

796
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: it's still there, but if they don't, I don't don't

797
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: book gigs anymore, though well they don't. They definitely don't

798
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: do a thousand people, right, But in any of that,

799
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: I went on a Sunday night, they were like nine

800
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: people there. So I maintained my relationship with Blackie, who

801
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: is wasp and he's kept saying, oh, and I had

802
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: this relationship with guy Rod Smallwood. It goes in one ear,

803
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: went out out another, and then he calls me one day.

804
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: There's like three months later, he goes king Rod small

805
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: would come in and meet you. To this day, Rod

806
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: Smallwood is manager of Iron Maiden, and I said sure,

807
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: because a fucking idiot, there's so many layers in the

808
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: music business. You learned. I thought Rod Smallwood wanted to

809
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: meet me. He didn't want to meet me. I had

810
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 1: thirty five millimeter film of an unsigned band that didn't

811
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: exist in so what he ultimately after he listened to

812
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: my horse ship for thirty minutes, he said he wanted

813
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: to borrow one of the video cassettes. At the time,

814
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: the standard was three quarter inch video. He said, I

815
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 1: was number two at the company. There were two of these,

816
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: only one in the building. It just couldn't disappear. So

817
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: I basically said, finally, I say, okay, okay, you can

818
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: take it. It just has to come back today even

819
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: doesn't come back to there and lose my job did

820
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: come back. He went and made a five hundred grand

821
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: cash deal for WASP because Iron Maiden was the biggest

822
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: worldwide band on the capital. And then the next day

823
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: black It calls me, goes, are you a lawyer? Yeah,

824
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: I'm a lawyer, went like five or six times because

825
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: I really need to know. So you know, was I

826
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: have a bar card? Okay, And I showed him the

827
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: bar card. When he came in, he goes, I need

828
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: you to represent me, and my deal was saying it

829
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: was the management company. So I negotiate that deal. Going

830
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: back a step, when we mastered the Freddie Moore record,

831
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: there was a funk up. In addition, my boss wrote

832
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: a bad check. I ended up becoming very close with

833
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: the mastering company, and to this day, this guy, Stephen Markinson,

834
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: is one of the top castering engineers in the world.

835
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: So in any event twenty or thirty years now exactly

836
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: so at the time you would have to book mastering

837
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: weeks in advance. But Stephen was a good friend of mine,

838
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: and at the time this guy at um Sterling Sound

839
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: was the guy who meant it, who mastered all the

840
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: metal and they sent it to him and it came

841
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: back fucked up, and I asked Stephen for a favor

842
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: and he cut it. But then you have to cut

843
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: refs and it takes you can only cut. They had

844
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: two lazy get two at a time. They're doing because

845
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: that's and the band is now Antsie. So they go

846
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: to the Rainbow where you went every night, and I

847
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: said I would bring the rest. I bring the rest,

848
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: and Rod Smallwood is there and he's all pushed out

849
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: of shape. He can be an intense guy. What are

850
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: you doing with the rest? Bla blah blah blah blah,

851
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: and explained the story and he goes, you shouldn't be

852
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: a lawyer, you should be a manager. When my partner

853
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: comes back to town, I'm gonna make a deal. These

854
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: are still the guys who manage Iron Maiden. Just just

855
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: to be clear. It was Sanctuary Music and then they

856
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: ran out of money. They were kept alive by Ralph

857
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: Simon at Zomba. Then they came back and then they

858
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: went public. Everybody invested. They took all their money out.

859
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: They did well, then it crashed. The assets were sold

860
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: to Universal, but that was all after my too. By

861
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: the way, I was there for a few years. Right

862
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: before they went. I was part of the crash. It

863
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: was like, is that's a whole another podcast? Um? So

864
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: they did. About two months later, Andy Taylor did come.

865
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: We did make a deal. They bought this house that

866
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: um Chauncey Gardner you know I'm talking about. But who

867
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: was the actor Peter Sellers. He had bought it and

868
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: just gotten married, but he died before we could move

869
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 1: in there. It was just above the rainbow. They put

870
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: me so um they put You know, they had a

871
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 1: lot of cash. This is not the way the music

872
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: business normally runs. But forty grand in one bank account,

873
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: anty granted another bank account. And I remember them leaving there,

874
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: go to the airport and they could only be in

875
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: American ninety days at the time without paying taxes. They go,

876
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: you have any cash this? And I said, sure, how much?

877
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: He thinks if we even going to the airport, do

878
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: you have any company cash? Well, you know, I got

879
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: all this money in the bank. You know what, because

880
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: you're gonna need cash. And they whipped out d dollars

881
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: cash and I said, what am I going to do?

882
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 1: And he goes, I put it in my front pocket.

883
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: The irony being is you need that cash because when

884
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 1: you're working with the rock band, it's got all these

885
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: hangars on believers who do work. None of them have

886
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: a dollar, none of them have a credit card, and

887
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: they would have to Like I remember we had a

888
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: rent a skeleton. You need a thousand dollar deposits and

889
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: you'd whip off a thousand dollars. So I ran the

890
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: US office and I had to be the heavy first

891
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: and foremost. They could only be in American ninety days

892
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: a piece. And there were things like we had a

893
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: rich deal and they had to fund the videos, and

894
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: we were making a video and the video this the

895
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: first video was for forty five grand, the second was

896
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: for seventy grand. And I had a lot of cash.

897
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: I was about seventeen grand in and I called up

898
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: to get a check from Capital for twenty grand. They say,

899
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: we only write checks on Thursday. This is Monday, and

900
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: I said, I need to check this week, too bad,

901
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: We gotta write We only write checks on Thursday. And

902
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: I called Rod, who was in the Bahamas. He goes,

903
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: that's why I hired you. You have to do the work.

904
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: So I had to call Capital. I said, either you

905
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,959
Speaker 1: write me the check or I'll billy you for the money.

906
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: I'm already in needless just say I got the check.

907
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: But this comes up later. Then when you deal with

908
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: any band, forget this pop thing where everybody's moldible. But

909
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: back when they used to have real bands, you know

910
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: when that ended basically the early nineties. Um, they have

911
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: like a ten year plan even though they're nobody's they

912
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: know what song is gonna be, a single, etcetera. So

913
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: Blackie wanted to produce the album himself. Capital wouldn't let them,

914
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: so they had this guy, Mike Varney, who was famous

915
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: for finding all the hot new rock guitars produce it.

916
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: The mix was terrible, okay, so I told Blackie it

917
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: needed to be remixed. He said he would only remix

918
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: it if Carter said otherwise. Carter was the A and

919
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: R guy is now deceased at Capital. He's famous for

920
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: two things. He wrote the lyrics to Incense and Peppermints,

921
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: and he engineered. He was the executive producer on Tina

922
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: Turner's Comeback. He deserves all the credit. So I bring

923
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: the cassette into Carter. I play it for him. It's

924
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: over and he says, uh, I passed on this band

925
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: three times, do whatever you want. It's like it was

926
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: signed above me, so I'm freaked out. But in the

927
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 1: interim Black he played it for some other people and

928
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: he realized it needs to be remixed. I got this

929
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: guy Dwayne Baron, who had a huge hit with Quiet Ryan.

930
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: He rescued the record. But if you remember MTV, they

931
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: would go through these phases of what they played and

932
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: they swift to shifted to a non metal phase and

933
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: Dwayne rescued another track. We had a great video too.

934
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: I said this should be the single because I cared

935
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: about the music. To make a long story very short,

936
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: as you have, I got fired for standing up to

937
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: the band. Rod Smallwood's famously said, which if you put

938
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: it in today's context, your head will spin like Reagan

939
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: in the Exorcist. What difference does it make it the

940
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: first album is unsuccessful and right, and then I got fired.

941
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: I you know I had I had a ton of

942
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: money because you can't spend a dollar when you have

943
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 1: a job like that, and just to get to the

944
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: key point we're actually at. Then I couldn't get another

945
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: job because everybody told me this this big heavy guy

946
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:40,479
Speaker 1: wielding bower. Okay, but this. I worked on a couple

947
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: of movies because people I had hired they you know,

948
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: some music, super right. And then I went to see

949
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: a job counselor and my shrink said to do it,

950
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: and she gave me this workbook from What Color Is

951
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 1: Your Parachute? The famous job seeking book. Yeah, like one

952
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: of the greatest books ever written. Right and still right.

953
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: The guy recently died Bowls and uh I wrote essays

954
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: and I got back in touch with the fact I

955
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: love to write, Okay, And I wrote and I said

956
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 1: something to magazines when the rejections came back, and said,

957
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: wait a second, Wait a second, this is just like

958
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: the music business. You have to know these people. Then

959
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: I was eating in a hamburger at Flaky Jake's doesn't

960
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: exist anymore. It was the corner of Pico in Sepulvidame. Okay,

961
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: and I'm reading Billboard. It was one of its terrible phases.

962
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: It got better with this guy, Timothy White, than he died.

963
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: It got worse again, and I'm reading to go this

964
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: is terrible. I could do a better job than this.

965
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: And I knew, because I was constantly rewriting the UH

966
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: bios that the publicity people had that. I said, I

967
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: could actually do this. So I went on and woke up.

968
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: My girlfriend said you should do this, you should do this,

969
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: and I knew there was a computer. I didn't have

970
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: a computer at the time, and I thought about it

971
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: for a week, and then I went out and charged

972
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: up five end worth the computer equipment on a credit

973
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: card I had gotten from being a lawyer, and I

974
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: started this newsletter in the fall of eighty six. I said,

975
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: three thousand copies to three times from a directory I got,

976
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 1: got the addresses from the Yellow Pages of rock Uh,

977
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: this from the album network, which also no longer exists.

978
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's important to add this

979
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: is the beginning of the right here and right now exactly.

980
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: This is it. And I was really doing it. I

981
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 1: was really doing it just to get into the job

982
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: in the music business. I didn't think it would be successful.

983
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: The irony was at the time. It came out every

984
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: two weeks religiously. It was all analysis and business tips.

985
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 1: I'm writing so much now, covering a lot of ground,

986
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: but every it was not like radio tips. It would

987
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: be like here's the situation, here's how we analyze it.

988
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: The head of every label subscribed. They all wanted to

989
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 1: meet me. I thought people on the way up would subscribe.

990
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: Fewer of those people because they were drinking the kool aid.

991
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,959
Speaker 1: The top guy can have a different perspective. So I

992
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: did that for four years, always looking for other opportunity.

993
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: This was via facts, no, no, no, it was via

994
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 1: regular mail. I occasionally said a post stamp, you got it,

995
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: and it was a lot of effort. I didn't get

996
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: it until right so. UM. What happened was I ran

997
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: on the money. My ex wife moved out. It was

998
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: really bad. I crashed really hard. I have a theory

999
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: that everybody loses like ten years of their lives, and

1000
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: that was my ten years. And in the interim, the

1001
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: Internet happened and I had a free subscription to a

1002
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: O L. It's funny. I saw this guy just last night,

1003
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: Jeff Gold, who was the big end up in general

1004
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: manager of Warner Brothers UM and he gave it to

1005
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: me when uh, people weren't really I got a job

1006
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: writing for the Pulse mag is Zene, which was the

1007
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: arm of Tower Records. It was like Rolling Stone came

1008
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: out once a month and they paid me three times

1009
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: when anybody else paid And they printed my address. Once

1010
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: all these people were calling me and email and sending

1011
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: me letters, and then some woman in college said can

1012
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: I email you? And I knew I had this a

1013
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: O L subscription, so I fired that up. Then there

1014
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: was a famous board on a O L called the

1015
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: Velvet Rope about the music business and early right Julie Gordon. Okay.

1016
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: I started to participate on that, and then I started

1017
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: my own because they kept moving that whatever. But I

1018
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: got very heavily into the Internet. From thousand, I was

1019
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: in every nook and creative became a big expert. Just

1020
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: to go two steps further, we were going to the

1021
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: Aspen conference and in it was the first time the

1022
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: contact list had email addresses. Friends of mine worked in

1023
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: the book business for in the house. There's a famous

1024
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: book about David Geffen called The Operator, and I had

1025
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: it a weekend before anybody else. I wrote about it,

1026
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: sent it to all to my Aspen list. Response was great.

1027
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: I had a little directory. The album network all suddenly

1028
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: was having a directory with email addresses from some of

1029
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 1: their subscribers, and I could cross reference some of my subscribers,

1030
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: and I sent it and as my first experience with virality, okay.

1031
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: As I remember hearing from all these people like uh,

1032
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 1: Jefferson Holt, who used to be the manager of rari

1033
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: um okay, and he said he got And I said,

1034
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: you're not a subscriber, how do you got? I got

1035
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 1: it from Mark Williams, famous an our god. And I

1036
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: think this is where I got in on it too.

1037
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,720
Speaker 1: I think it's it just it went viral. Mark Williams

1038
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 1: wasn't a subscribe either, So then I stopped charging for subscriptions.

1039
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: I stopped sending it by email, and if you were

1040
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: from an Aspen person who were already a subscriber, you

1041
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: got it. If you're in the circle. If you're in

1042
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,479
Speaker 1: the circle, you email me to get it. I did

1043
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: not automate it until two thousand and five. The advantage

1044
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 1: to that was I was on the bleeding edge of

1045
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: all this stuff that people take for granted. And I'm

1046
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 1: not saying this is necessarily good stuff, but I'm talking

1047
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: about the hate and all this other But what he

1048
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: also did is you you built incredible credibility process, like

1049
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 1: you became authentic and credible as a voice, and and

1050
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: and and no disrespect to Julie, but that velvet rope

1051
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: thing was not right. I mean, well, let's just to

1052
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 1: go back there. The velvet rope was, you know, really

1053
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: a vicious thing. She left, oh a O. L went

1054
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: somewhere else. And the guy who hosted this, this guy

1055
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: Craig Anderton, electronic musician, worked at Gibson until about a

1056
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: month ago, and a very nice guy. He said, I'll

1057
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: host one for you, right, and we did it. What

1058
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: I didn't realize at the time was this is sound

1059
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: kind of pompous. I would write definitively. People would be

1060
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: too intimidated to respond. So I did that. It became

1061
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: really important, really fast. Right. So I did that for

1062
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: like two years and was also burned out. But once

1063
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: what happened was when I went online in the year

1064
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: two thousand. That's when the whole Napster thing happened. And

1065
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: since I was a lawyer, I understood the legal stuff

1066
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: on naster. I was the expert on Napster. They would

1067
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: call me everybody from Hillary Rose and who was head

1068
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: of the uh R, I double a everybody. I got

1069
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: right in the thick of exactly about political stuff. You know,

1070
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: she was everybody hated her in real life. She was

1071
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:43,439
Speaker 1: basically uh an okay person but um that that that's

1072
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: what happened, and there are many details because I thought

1073
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: that it was copyright infringement, but I thought that the

1074
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: labels would establish that and then that have naptrical legal

1075
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: which was not the case. So certainly by the fall

1076
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: of two thous they went to shut it down. I

1077
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 1: became the expert on the other side all of what

1078
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: was going on with the Internet that they could not battle.

1079
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: I guess there's one last question maybe here, Why the

1080
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: funk are you doing this? Lot's an interesting question. Now

1081
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: there's this guy, David Dorn who's a big, big wigged

1082
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: Apple Music. Now it was two thousand five. He tracked

1083
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: me down about doing this podcast for Rhino and I

1084
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: did it all the way to remember this, all the

1085
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: way to the end of two thousand nine. That podcast

1086
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: was about talking about records and I could use any label, etcetera.

1087
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: And there was a very it's like anything else. You know,

1088
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: I got email for years after it stopped people would

1089
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: want to hear that again. Okay, so I'm gonna give

1090
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: you the real, real, real, real story. Yeah yeah. So

1091
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: in any event, David moved on and that ended. Okay,

1092
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: podcast went down, and then then what came back up,

1093
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: and everybody has a podcast and Howard Stern is giving

1094
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: them ship. Everybody can broadcast, etcetera. And it's like, I

1095
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: don't want to write a novel. That's not what I do.

1096
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: My thing is immediate. People say write a book, Say

1097
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a year or two to write a book.

1098
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: It's gonna reach a tenth of the people that I

1099
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 1: normally reach. That's not what I'm gonna do. And the podcast,

1100
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's like Peter Teel says, you know, you

1101
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: go where everybody else isn't. But in the full two

1102
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: years ago, I lost my two big paying gigs you know,

1103
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: nothing lasts forever, and one the company you know, literally went.

1104
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: Both companies went in a different direction. But both stories

1105
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: are a little complicated. But I lost them both in

1106
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: a week and I'd saved a lot of money. But

1107
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: it's through me. Okay, It's just like two years ago,

1108
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: it was, you know, so um this is I had

1109
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: a column in Variety and I had the uh these

1110
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: potu these uh Spotify playlists I was doing for Rhino,

1111
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: and I know totally redid their thing. And Variety is

1112
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: a much deeper story, but it came to a close

1113
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: and uh, I hate to admit it. It's like, you know,

1114
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: a breakup for me. It takes a long time for

1115
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: me to recover from these. It's hard to get over.

1116
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: And also I'll also admit, since I turned sixty really

1117
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: fucked me up. You know everybody's saying, you know, no,

1118
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: just they say sixties to do fifty or new forty.

1119
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: That's worship sixty and sixty. Okay, it might live a

1120
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: little bit longer. The problem with turning sixty is a

1121
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: lot of it's a it's a visceral thing. It's not

1122
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: something you contemplate until it comes up in your brain.

1123
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: Um is that? A lot of it's bullshit, like when

1124
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: I see hype, like I'm reading the newspaper now and

1125
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: they have they talk about acts, and they talk about

1126
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: what was just said. They're just hyping it. Okay, we

1127
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: don't know. I'll find out. I'll go on Rotten Tomatoes

1128
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: a day it comes out and find out whether it's

1129
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: worth seeing. I don't have to follow the promotion for

1130
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: a year in advance, so what is really important? And

1131
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: then you get to a spot where it goes It

1132
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: doesn't make any difference because at first you want to

1133
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 1: be remembered. Then you realize nobody's gonna be remembered. Young

1134
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: people today have no idea how big Johnny Carson was,

1135
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: and the Beatles continue to be big, but there are

1136
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: a lot of bands from the seventies who were huge

1137
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: already been forgotten. So it frees you up to do

1138
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: different things. Okay. Then I got an email from I was, okay,

1139
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: I do a certain number of personal appearances, certain number

1140
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: of podcasts myself. And I was on the Recode podcast

1141
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: and I knew I killed and I killed, and uh,

1142
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: some guy tracked me down. This craziest Railey guy had

1143
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 1: the fourth big third biggest YouTube channel if you discount Vivo,

1144
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: and he wanted to do a podcast, and I liked

1145
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 1: that he was young. Okay, and I said, well, maybe

1146
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: I'll take a flyer. Then Irving as Off said, well,

1147
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 1: a big radio chain was interested, so a big radio chain.

1148
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 1: We were at paper was gonna do with the big

1149
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: radio chain, okay. And then the guy who is head

1150
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: of tune In track me down and he said well,

1151
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: and I said, you literally have to get on it

1152
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: right away. I mean, I'm literally the contracts are going

1153
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: back and forth. So I liked once again that he

1154
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: was from the New World, and part of me believes

1155
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: I'm too late. But I listened to a lot of podcasts,

1156
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: and many people are bad. It's astounding how many people

1157
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: are truly bad. And then there are people who followings

1158
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: are bad. Because I was brought up in a family

1159
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: where they told me I was a ship hit. My

1160
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: mother would literally say, well, who are you? Why would

1161
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: why would? Why did they listen to you? So I realized, well,

1162
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: if I'm good on these other things, I need to

1163
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: give it a shot. And also I realized there are

1164
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people I do want to talk to,

1165
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: which has a different flavor from writing right, and as

1166
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: you have access to exactly like I'm gonna talk to

1167
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: Nathan Hubbard who ran ticket Master and is in the

1168
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: ticketing sphere that is not known how much you write,

1169
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: it's not something that you can converse. And there are

1170
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: a lot of other people. I mean, I haven't locked

1171
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: these people in, not that they won't lock him. So

1172
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to drop the names. There are a

1173
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: lot of creative people. You're gonna get them all, dude.

1174
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 1: But as I say, I like to get someone's story,

1175
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: I don't want to just hear the hype, and I

1176
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 1: don't think there's anybody better. That's my skill. To my detriment,

1177
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: I know everybody's story that you've heard about me. Most

1178
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: people you never hear about me. It's like it's just

1179
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: a newsletter, that's it. So I love to get people's stories.

1180
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: So I look forward to that the podcast. Well, I

1181
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: just want to share one story with you two thousand

1182
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: and two as your uh as your letter is blowing up.

1183
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,439
Speaker 1: You know, I'm still a relatively young man at that time.

1184
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: I was so inspired that I thought I would try

1185
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: to do the same thing, and I never really was

1186
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: able to pull it off. I didn't know this, soho

1187
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: did you send stuff? No? I didn't send stuff. You

1188
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: know what I did is I would go out. I

1189
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 1: was on Sunset Strip every night, as you know. I'd

1190
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: go out to come home after many drinks and partying,

1191
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: and I would try to write something and I could

1192
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: never do it in the way that you did it.

1193
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: So you were such an inspiration to me, and to

1194
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: this day I wish that I had tried to follow

1195
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: through with this. But Bob, thank you for letting me

1196
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: help tell your story. My goal is to make your

1197
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: life more interesting. That's what I'm trying to do here

1198
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: on my new podcast on tune in. I want to

1199
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 1: give you information and entertain you simultaneously. In a world

1200
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 1: full of clutter, I hope to rise above. We love insight.

1201
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: You can email me at Bob at left sets dot

1202
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: com and let us know what you think and suggestions.

1203
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: We're open to all ideas. I hope you enjoyed this

1204
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: inaugural podcast. Be sure to subscribe at tune in, iTunes

1205
01:04:48,080 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: or your podcast player of choice. Don't know so Dolphas

1206
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: Drum