WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Tarryn Trybus

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<v Speaker 1>School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold

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<v Speaker 1>case murders in an effort to raise public awareness, invite

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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<v Speaker 1>be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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<v Speaker 1>from family and community members, their statements should not be

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<v Speaker 1>considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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<v Speaker 1>inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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<v Speaker 1>presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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<v Speaker 1>that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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<v Speaker 1>is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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<v Speaker 2>On November twenty eighth, twenty seventeen, thirty four year old

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<v Speaker 2>Tarren Baird, who lived in Swindon, a town in southwest

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<v Speaker 2>England about eighty miles from London, called the police non

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<v Speaker 2>emergency line. When she made that call, Terran was desperate.

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<v Speaker 2>She lived there with her husband, thirty six year old

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<v Speaker 2>Christopher Tribus, a successful software consultant. Christopher and Terran were

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<v Speaker 2>both originally from South Africa. They had met in South

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<v Speaker 2>Africa and later moved to the UK together to set

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<v Speaker 2>up their dream life. On the surface, they appeared to

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<v Speaker 2>be a happily married couple, but behind the scenes things

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<v Speaker 2>had been deteriorating for a long time. Exactly what happened

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<v Speaker 2>behind those closed doors is at the heart of this case,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's something we're going to be looking at in

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<v Speaker 2>exhaustive detail. When the police answered the phone, Taran told

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<v Speaker 2>them she needed them to come get rid of a body,

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<v Speaker 2>her body, because she was going to kill herself. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine Townsend. Over the past eight years of making my

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<v Speaker 2>true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there's no

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<v Speaker 2>such thing as a small town where murder never happens.

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<v Speaker 2>I have received hundreds of messages from people all around

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<v Speaker 2>the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's

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<v Speaker 2>affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have

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<v Speaker 2>a case you'd like me and my team to look into,

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<v Speaker 2>you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone

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<v Speaker 2>Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six

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<v Speaker 2>one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four

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<v Speaker 2>six one four five, or you can send us a

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<v Speaker 2>message on Instagram at Helen gonepod. This is Helen Gone

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<v Speaker 2>Murder Line. When police got to the tribe As home,

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<v Speaker 2>the officer found Tarran hanging from the ceiling near a

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<v Speaker 2>ladder in the garage. After the officer cut her down.

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<v Speaker 2>Police investigated the scene and they found a note that

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<v Speaker 2>Tarran had left. She wrote, quote to my family, I

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<v Speaker 2>am so sorry, but I just couldn't take it anymore

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<v Speaker 2>end quote. Terran said that a dark cloud had been

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<v Speaker 2>over her for a long time, so this seemed like

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<v Speaker 2>a fairly cut and dried case of suicide. But what

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<v Speaker 2>was the dark cloud she was talking about? Was it

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<v Speaker 2>depression or was it something else? According to police records

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<v Speaker 2>that were later ariston court, some of Terran's family and

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<v Speaker 2>friends told officers they believed the dark cloud Tarran was

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<v Speaker 2>referring to was alleged abuse by her husband, Christopher. Christopher

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<v Speaker 2>and Terran had been together for over a decade. They

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<v Speaker 2>met in South Africa, where they were both originally from.

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<v Speaker 2>They started dating and in two thousand and seven they

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<v Speaker 2>moved to the UK together. Two years later they got

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<v Speaker 2>married and eventually they moved to Swindon. Tarran did have

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<v Speaker 2>some mental health issues. One of the issues she struggled

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<v Speaker 2>with was PTSD. Sadly, in South Africa, carjacking is not

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<v Speaker 2>that rare crime and Tarran had witnessed two carjackings while

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<v Speaker 2>she was there, so understandably, Terran was traumatized by this.

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<v Speaker 2>According to court records, this led to her receiving a

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<v Speaker 2>diagnosis of PTSD post traumatic stress disorder. But even though

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<v Speaker 2>she was struggling with PTSD for a long time, Christopher

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<v Speaker 2>and Tarran seemed to be a happy, married couple. Christopher

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<v Speaker 2>was described by family and friends as being a mild

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<v Speaker 2>mannered guy. He worked as a software consultant. Tarren worked

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<v Speaker 2>at a local opticians office. She also did some work

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<v Speaker 2>in Chris's business. On the outside, everything looked great, but

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty fifteen, things between Tarran and Christopher started to

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<v Speaker 2>fall apart. Now exactly what happened between them is something

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<v Speaker 2>that is really hotly debated. Tarran described Christopher as a monster.

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<v Speaker 2>He would later describe her as a fantacist and a

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<v Speaker 2>pathological liar, but we do know a few facts for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>So both Christopher and Terren's families followed them from South

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<v Speaker 2>Africa and ended up settling in the UK as well,

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<v Speaker 2>so they saw both families quite a bit. At some point,

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<v Speaker 2>Terran's mother in law moved in with Tarran and Christopher

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<v Speaker 2>in late twenty fifteen, Tarran and her mother in law

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<v Speaker 2>got into an argument, and according to court testimony, that

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<v Speaker 2>fight ended with Teraren asking her mother in law to

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<v Speaker 2>move out, and this made Christopher furious. Terran began to

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<v Speaker 2>spiral after that. Now, the prosecution would later claim that's

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<v Speaker 2>when a tsunami of alleged abuse by Christopher began. Terreen

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<v Speaker 2>started going to the doctor a lot to report this

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<v Speaker 2>alleged abuse. By May of twenty sixteen, Tarreen told her

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<v Speaker 2>GP that she sometimes felt life was not worth living.

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<v Speaker 2>She visited the GP over one hundred times. Also during

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<v Speaker 2>this time, Terreen's mother, Michelle Baird, later testified in court

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<v Speaker 2>Taren was telling her mom Christopher was controlling when Michelle

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<v Speaker 2>would come over. She claimed that Terran would act strangely.

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<v Speaker 2>Christopher worked from home, and Michelle said Terren would insist

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<v Speaker 2>she had to have lunch ready at exactly twelve fifteen pm,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, and afternoon tea ready at exactly three fifteen pm.

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<v Speaker 2>Mischelle Belle said Tarran told her she did this because

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<v Speaker 2>Christopher demanded that was how it had to be. Later,

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<v Speaker 2>Christopher would completely deny that this was true. When Michelle

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<v Speaker 2>asked Christopher how Terreen got some bruises that she was noticing.

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<v Speaker 2>She testified in court. Christopher said it was because Terren

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<v Speaker 2>was an alcoholic and as a result of that and

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<v Speaker 2>of taking prescription medicine, Terreen kept falling. Whatever was going on,

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<v Speaker 2>it was clear Terren's mental health was getting worse. She

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<v Speaker 2>took several drug overdoses, and on one occasion, just weeks

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<v Speaker 2>before she hung herself, she called the police and told

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<v Speaker 2>them that she was going to hang herself. That time,

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<v Speaker 2>the officer arrived on scene and was able to talk

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<v Speaker 2>her down, but on November twenty eighth, twenty seventeen, sadly,

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<v Speaker 2>help arrived too late for Terran. She was pronounced dead

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<v Speaker 2>at the scene. Christopher Tribus was in Germany on a

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<v Speaker 2>work trip in Stuttgart when he got the call that

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<v Speaker 2>his wife was dead. He rushed to the airport and

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<v Speaker 2>flew home to Swindon in tears. According to the Guardian's

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<v Speaker 2>court report, Christopher said, quote, it's not something anyone can

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<v Speaker 2>prepare themselves for. It's a cliche, but you never think

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to happen to you. So worst day of

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<v Speaker 2>my life, just absolutely terrible. I don't know how else

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<v Speaker 2>to describe it end quote. When he got home. He

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<v Speaker 2>insisted that even though Terren had had some problems with

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<v Speaker 2>depression and mental health, he had had no idea how

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<v Speaker 2>bad things really were, and Christopher insisted he had nothing

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<v Speaker 2>to do with her death. After conducting an investigation, the

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<v Speaker 2>Wiltshire Police determined no further action would be taken against

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<v Speaker 2>Christopher Tribus, and Terran's death was ruled a suicide. But then,

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty, almost three years later, Terrean's mother, Michelle,

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<v Speaker 2>was going through her daughter's belongings when she found something

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<v Speaker 2>that changed everything. It was an audio recording on Terran's phone.

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<v Speaker 2>It was four minutes and fifty seven seconds long. Michelle

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<v Speaker 2>listened to slaps and sounds of what she believed were

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<v Speaker 2>violence on the recording, and with horror, she believed she

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<v Speaker 2>was listening to tapes of her daughter being raped. Michelle

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<v Speaker 2>also found some other things, including a secret file on

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<v Speaker 2>Terran's phone, where Terran had saved information about what she

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<v Speaker 2>claimed was Christopher's history of alleged violent abuse. There were

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<v Speaker 2>pictures of bruises that Terran had documented, and Tarreen also

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<v Speaker 2>kept a diary. Mischelle believed Tarran had been abused and

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<v Speaker 2>that this abuse had contributed to her suicide, a theory

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<v Speaker 2>that prosecutors later advanced in court and which Christopher Tribus

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<v Speaker 2>always denied. Michelle turned the audio she found over to

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<v Speaker 2>the police, and in twenty twenty one one, eventually the

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<v Speaker 2>Dorset Police took on the case. This time police stated

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<v Speaker 2>that they had found enough evidence to bring charges against Christopher.

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<v Speaker 2>They charged him with manslaughter in connection with Terren's death,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as with two counts of rape and coercive

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<v Speaker 2>and controlling behavior. Christopher continued to completely deny that he

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<v Speaker 2>had anything to do with Terren's death. This was a

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<v Speaker 2>groundbreaking case because Christopher was not in the country when

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<v Speaker 2>Tarran died, so if he was convicted, he would be

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<v Speaker 2>found responsible for her death even though he wasn't there.

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<v Speaker 2>Authorities now had to look back over Christopher and Terran's

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<v Speaker 2>entire relationship and compile evidence. It was a case if

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<v Speaker 2>he said, she said, but the second person was dead.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to make clear Christopher denied all of the

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<v Speaker 2>allegations against him, and he was ultimately acquitted of every charge.

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<v Speaker 2>So the allegations we're talking about here are claims that

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<v Speaker 2>were made in court in medical records and diary entries

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<v Speaker 2>or by witnesses. They are not findings of guilt. I

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<v Speaker 2>want to also let you know there is an awesome

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<v Speaker 2>podcast out there if you want to go into the

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<v Speaker 2>weeds and really listen to the entire trial. It's called

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<v Speaker 2>The Trial and it was produced by the Daily Mail.

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<v Speaker 2>They have actors reading the court testimony and it's fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>to see how this case played out. I wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>cover this case because there doesn't seem to be a

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<v Speaker 2>real US equivalent to the Christopher Tribe's case, at least

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<v Speaker 2>not one that I can find where domestic abuse or

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<v Speaker 2>coercive control allegedly led to a suicide and the abuser

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<v Speaker 2>was then charged with manslaughter based on that. So let's

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<v Speaker 2>back up and talk about coercive control for a minute.

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<v Speaker 2>In the USA, the law is still catching up to

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<v Speaker 2>the concept of coercive control. Domestic violence is still easier

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<v Speaker 2>to prove here when there is a documented assault, a

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<v Speaker 2>police report, a hospital visit, or something concrete like a

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<v Speaker 2>threatening text. But coercive control is about patterns, patterns of isolation, surveillance,

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<v Speaker 2>financial pressure, threats, humiliation, and fear. Some US states are

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<v Speaker 2>beginning to recognize coerceive control in domestic violence law, but

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<v Speaker 2>we do not have a unified national approach like they

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<v Speaker 2>do in the UK. This is a super controversial topic

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<v Speaker 2>because it raises some tough questions, like the idea that

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<v Speaker 2>someone's behavior can be responsible for someone else's death even

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<v Speaker 2>if they're not directly involved. In the US, the closest

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<v Speaker 2>comparison that comes to mind to the Tribe's case is

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<v Speaker 2>probably the Michelle Carter case out of Massachusetts, the so

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<v Speaker 2>called texting suicide case. In that case, prosecutors argued that

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<v Speaker 2>Michelle's pressure caused Conrad Roy's death, and she was convicted

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<v Speaker 2>of involuntary manslaughter. But with Christopher and Tarran, prosecutors were

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<v Speaker 2>not saying there was one exact text or instruction. Instead,

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<v Speaker 2>they were asking a jury to look at an entire

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<v Speaker 2>relationship dynamic and decide whether a pattern of alleged abuse

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<v Speaker 2>could legally become a cause of death. But the legal

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<v Speaker 2>landscape does seem to be shifting. The US is beginning

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<v Speaker 2>to recognize the idea of coercive suicide in certain context.

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<v Speaker 2>In my opinion, in the social media era, where everything

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<v Speaker 2>is documented, including people's thought processes, in real time, it's

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<v Speaker 2>easy to imagine more and more cases testing this boundary,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is the question at the center of this case.

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<v Speaker 2>When does abuse become a cause of death? The prosecution

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<v Speaker 2>called Terrance doctor doctor Tessa Jones. They also talked to

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<v Speaker 2>Terren's friend, Taren. Baird's best friend was a woman named

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<v Speaker 2>Carina Silva. She testified in court. Tarreen told her that

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<v Speaker 2>Christopher had raped her twice and gotten violent with her

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<v Speaker 2>on several occasions. Karina said Terreen withdrew and eventually became

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<v Speaker 2>a shell of her former self. According to the trial podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>Tarreen told Karina that during this alleged rape in twenty sixteen,

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<v Speaker 2>Chris had strangled her. Terreen had shown Karina photos of

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<v Speaker 2>injuries to her neck. Karina begged Teren to get out

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<v Speaker 2>of the relationship. Karina told Terreen she could stay with

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<v Speaker 2>her if she needed to. Karina said Teraren would sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>talk about leaving Christopher, but that she never did, and

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<v Speaker 2>Karina said this became a pattern. Terreen would come to

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<v Speaker 2>her with these graphic details of abuse. Karina would offer

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<v Speaker 2>a shoulder to crown and a place to stay, and

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<v Speaker 2>then Terreen would later backtrack and say it hadn't been

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<v Speaker 2>that serious. Karina testified Tarreen had told her her that

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<v Speaker 2>Christopher hit her around twenty five times now. During this time,

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<v Speaker 2>between twenty fifteen and twenty seventeen, Karina and Taren were

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<v Speaker 2>also texting. Taren texted Karina photos of what she claimed

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<v Speaker 2>were injuries that Christopher had inflicted on her face, neck,

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<v Speaker 2>and stomach. In February of twenty seventeen, Taren texted Karina.

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<v Speaker 2>She said Christopher had lost his shit and that she

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<v Speaker 2>could not take it again again. Karina testified she said

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<v Speaker 2>to come over, but Terran never showed up. During this time,

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<v Speaker 2>Karina said Terreen started drinking more and more. Taren was

0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.080
<v Speaker 2>also writing her thoughts about what was going on at

0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.800
<v Speaker 2>home in her diary. The diary was presented as evidence,

0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.880
<v Speaker 2>and portions of it were read at trial. In an

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 2>entry on June twenty third, twenty sixteen, Tarren wrote, quote,

0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.720
<v Speaker 2>it started slowly over the years without me even knowing it,

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.560
<v Speaker 2>then progressed into more serious things. He spoke to me,

0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:49.040
<v Speaker 2>started getting more condescending. End quote. She also wrote quote

0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.960
<v Speaker 2>the second standout moment was one night during sex, I

0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.640
<v Speaker 2>felt his hands around my neck. Something in him was

0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.760
<v Speaker 2>unleashed that night. Progressively, sex got rougher, and the more

0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.840
<v Speaker 2>I fight back, the more he enjoys it. It's like

0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.280
<v Speaker 2>there was this side of him hidden all these years.

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 2>End quote. So the trial started on February twenty six,

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty six, at Winchester Crown Court. It went on

0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 2>for two months. Karina took the stand and testified about

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 2>what Arran had told her regarding the alleged abuse, but

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.720
<v Speaker 2>the defense grilled her. They asked Karina why, if she

0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.440
<v Speaker 2>really believed Tarn was being abused, why she didn't go

0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.880
<v Speaker 2>to the police. Karina said she tried to get Taren

0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.640
<v Speaker 2>to report the abuse, but she said Tarren didn't want to.

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.040
<v Speaker 2>I feel for Karina here because a lot of people

0:17:39.120 --> 0:17:42.400
<v Speaker 2>out there who've experienced domestic violence themselves or had a

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 2>friend or a family member dealing with this, have faced

0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.000
<v Speaker 2>this exact issue. Sometimes it's very hard to know what

0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.360
<v Speaker 2>to do when the victim doesn't want to press charges,

0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.800
<v Speaker 2>because you want to help them get out of the situation,

0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:55.920
<v Speaker 2>but at the same time, you don't want to make

0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.760
<v Speaker 2>things worse, and you also don't want them to stop

0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.200
<v Speaker 2>talking to you altogether if they end up going back

0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.440
<v Speaker 2>to their abuser. The defense attorney pointed out something else,

0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:09.680
<v Speaker 2>that Karina's story had evolved since she first spoke to police.

0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.760
<v Speaker 2>The defense claim the huge amount of press coverage this

0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:18.520
<v Speaker 2>case got had impacted Karina's testimony. They believed that Karina,

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.960
<v Speaker 2>when she said that Terreen had been hit twenty five

0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.440
<v Speaker 2>times by Christopher, got the number twenty five from a

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Daily Mail article that mentioned Terran taking twenty five selfies

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:34.360
<v Speaker 2>of the injuries she allegedly received from Christopher. Karina denied

0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.760
<v Speaker 2>getting the number twenty five from the media coverage. Terreen's

0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:42.000
<v Speaker 2>GP doctor Tessa Jones, was also testifying that Terran came

0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 2>to her over one hundred times over a two year period.

0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Terarrean was complaining about symptoms she was experiencing, including panic, insomnia, injuries,

0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:55.440
<v Speaker 2>and PTSD. Doctor Jones said at trial that beginning in

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 2>the fall of twenty sixteen, Terren said she was terrified.

0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.120
<v Speaker 2>She said Christopher had raped her, strangled her, and beaten

0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.440
<v Speaker 2>her with objects, including a metal bar. She also said

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.400
<v Speaker 2>he had stalked her and held her head under the

0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 2>water while she was taking a bath. Doctor Jones testified

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Terran had told her she didn't want to contact law

0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.680
<v Speaker 2>enforcement because Terren believed this would make things worse, and

0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:22.160
<v Speaker 2>doctor Jones said she believed Terarren had the capacity to

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 2>make her own decisions. The doctor said she was trying

0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:27.920
<v Speaker 2>to figure out how to help Teren without putting her

0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 2>in danger. During this time, Terran was also suffering with

0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:37.520
<v Speaker 2>suicidal thoughts, according to doctor Jones's notes, including buying pills

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.120
<v Speaker 2>online and thinking about jumping in front of a train

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.120
<v Speaker 2>or off a building. On November twenty seven, seven, the

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 2>day before she killed herself, Tarren went in to see

0:19:47.360 --> 0:19:51.640
<v Speaker 2>doctor Jones. On that occasion, according to the notes that

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.920
<v Speaker 2>doctor Jones read from a trial, Tarren told doctor Jones

0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.360
<v Speaker 2>that over the past few days Chris had held her

0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 2>head under the water and beaten her. The next day,

0:20:03.120 --> 0:20:07.920
<v Speaker 2>November twenty eighth, Tarren called her doctor's office again. A

0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 2>few hours later, she was dead. Doctor Jones's testimony was

0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 2>crucial for the prosecution because they claimed doctor Jones's notes

0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.480
<v Speaker 2>showed a pattern of Tarran reporting abuse. They believed this

0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.560
<v Speaker 2>pointed to Christopher's coercion, But the defense believed the notes

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.280
<v Speaker 2>were good for them, especially because during the time when

0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Tarren was telling her doctor, Christopher was beating her with

0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.040
<v Speaker 2>a metal pull and holding her head under water. He

0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.520
<v Speaker 2>was out of the country on a work trip. Several

0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 2>of Christopher's colleagues testified he was in Germany and the

0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Netherlands during that time working on a software project, and

0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.160
<v Speaker 2>there were questions raised by the prosecution about whether Christopher

0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.480
<v Speaker 2>could have gone back home to the UK during that

0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 2>time period, but the defense had tons of receipts, flight records,

0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.600
<v Speaker 2>meal records, and people who worked with Christopher during that

0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:04.480
<v Speaker 2>time period and saw him. Doctor Jones testified there did

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.440
<v Speaker 2>appear to be a disconnect between what Tarrean said and

0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:12.240
<v Speaker 2>what the record showed, and there were other inconsistencies, like

0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.760
<v Speaker 2>the fact that Tarrean told one of her cousins she

0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.760
<v Speaker 2>had fractured ribs and a cheekbone. Meanwhile, doctor Jones said

0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:23.080
<v Speaker 2>there were no medical records of fractures. Just like everything

0:21:23.120 --> 0:21:26.080
<v Speaker 2>else in this case, most of the evidence can be

0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 2>interpreted in two ways, he said versus she said. Do

0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.480
<v Speaker 2>the doctor's notes show a woman trapped in a cycle

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.000
<v Speaker 2>of violent abuse or someone going through a mental health

0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:42.000
<v Speaker 2>crisis and making up stories. Was Taran a victim of

0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:47.040
<v Speaker 2>coerci of control or suffering from mental health issues, or

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.080
<v Speaker 2>lying or all of the above, or none of the above.

0:21:51.360 --> 0:21:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Christopher took the stand, and not surprisingly, he had a

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:59.240
<v Speaker 2>completely different take on his relationship with Terreen. Christopher said

0:21:59.360 --> 0:22:02.920
<v Speaker 2>not only was he not controlling like the prosecutors claimed,

0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.480
<v Speaker 2>he said that Terran was the controlling one in their relationship.

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.560
<v Speaker 2>He said he was mild mannered and kind of went

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:12.680
<v Speaker 2>with the flow. He said he tended to go along

0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:16.120
<v Speaker 2>with what she wanted. Christopher said over the years he

0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.600
<v Speaker 2>did try to help Terrean with what he called her

0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.640
<v Speaker 2>mental health issues. He said they thought about how many

0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.800
<v Speaker 2>work trips he took, but he said he was torn.

0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:27.840
<v Speaker 2>He wanted to help her, but he had his own

0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.160
<v Speaker 2>company and he believed that showing up at these meetings

0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:35.640
<v Speaker 2>in person was crucial to continuing to build his business.

0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Of course, one can never really know what's going on

0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:44.160
<v Speaker 2>inside someone else's marriage, but Christopher brought witnesses who said

0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:48.120
<v Speaker 2>they never saw any abuse, including Terrean's former sister in law,

0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.760
<v Speaker 2>who testified Terren had sent her photos of injuries over

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:56.920
<v Speaker 2>the years, but explained them as accidents or feigning. So

0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:00.800
<v Speaker 2>the defense's position was they could prove some of what

0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Terren said was not true, so if some of it

0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:05.640
<v Speaker 2>was not true, it was reasonable to believe all of

0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.360
<v Speaker 2>it was not true. But if Terran was lying, why

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:12.600
<v Speaker 2>why would she lie over such a long period of

0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:16.040
<v Speaker 2>time and to so many people? And if Christopher wasn't

0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:20.560
<v Speaker 2>abusing her, how did she get those injuries? Christopher set

0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.520
<v Speaker 2>in court some of the injuries were caused by Terren

0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:27.360
<v Speaker 2>falling downstairs or in the bathtub, and that some of

0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:30.840
<v Speaker 2>the bruising had been caused by her using foam rollers,

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:35.400
<v Speaker 2>but the defense also claimed Terran may have injured herself

0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:39.680
<v Speaker 2>to get attention. According to expert evidence summarized by Channel four,

0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.640
<v Speaker 2>the abdominal bruising became one of the most contested parts

0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 2>the case. A forensic physician testified the type of bruising

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:50.720
<v Speaker 2>that Tarren had on her abdomen and neck were similar

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.000
<v Speaker 2>to ones they had seen in cases involving car crashes

0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:59.000
<v Speaker 2>or fatal strangulation. These were serious injuries. The doctors said

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:02.120
<v Speaker 2>that in their opinion, it was unlikely that Terran had

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:05.840
<v Speaker 2>done this to herself, but the defense pointed out all

0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:09.160
<v Speaker 2>of the bruises on Terran were in places Terran could

0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:13.240
<v Speaker 2>reach herself, and that Terran had no apparent defensive wounds.

0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Philip Joseph A. Psychiatrist who testified for the defense,

0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:21.160
<v Speaker 2>said that in his opinion, Terren's PTSD could have played

0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.720
<v Speaker 2>a crucial role in her suicide. We talked before about

0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 2>the carjackings in South Africa. It turned out that in

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.240
<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen, Chris and Terren's house in Swindon had a

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 2>home invasion. Doctor Joseph testified he believed that this retriggered

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Terren's PTSD. The doctor explained, this is how PTSD sometimes works.

0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:45.680
<v Speaker 2>After the tram event that triggers the PTSD in the

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:49.720
<v Speaker 2>first place happens, sometimes subsequent incidents, even if they aren't

0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.080
<v Speaker 2>that serious, can retrigger it. He stated that, in his

0:24:53.120 --> 0:24:56.640
<v Speaker 2>medical opinion, Terran should have been taken in for an

0:24:56.680 --> 0:25:01.520
<v Speaker 2>involuntary mental health hold. The doctor also said, in his opinion,

0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:05.360
<v Speaker 2>if Tarran was abused, it could have made her PTSD worse,

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:09.160
<v Speaker 2>but that it was impossible to say whether domestic abuse

0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:14.480
<v Speaker 2>alone could cause her to take her own life. And then,

0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:18.080
<v Speaker 2>near the end of the trial, Christopher's defense team introduced

0:25:18.120 --> 0:25:21.240
<v Speaker 2>a new and very dramatic piece of evidence, one that

0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:24.000
<v Speaker 2>they claimed could have caused some of Teren's neck injuries.

0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:29.960
<v Speaker 2>A bondage caller. Christopher stated that the caller, which was

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 2>described as a leather like collar with a thin leash,

0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:35.440
<v Speaker 2>was part of a black bunny sex kit that he

0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:38.440
<v Speaker 2>bought online. He said Terarren was the one who encouraged

0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:41.320
<v Speaker 2>him to buy this type of stuff. Christopher said the

0:25:41.360 --> 0:25:45.600
<v Speaker 2>caller might have caused some bruises on her neck. He said,

0:25:45.640 --> 0:25:48.560
<v Speaker 2>after he saw those marks on Arran's neck, he didn't

0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:52.600
<v Speaker 2>want to use that caller again. So were the marks

0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:56.400
<v Speaker 2>on Terran's neck caused by strangulation or could they have

0:25:56.440 --> 0:26:11.120
<v Speaker 2>gotten there through consensual sex. In court, Christopher held up

0:26:11.120 --> 0:26:14.400
<v Speaker 2>the collar and demonstrated how the caller caused the red marks.

0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:18.720
<v Speaker 2>And this was a dramatic moment because the prosecutor stated

0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:20.960
<v Speaker 2>the caller was a red herring and that Christopher was

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:24.640
<v Speaker 2>trying to cover up the fact that he strangled Terran. Meanwhile,

0:26:24.880 --> 0:26:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Christopher said they were just a normal couple who watched

0:26:27.400 --> 0:26:30.800
<v Speaker 2>fifty Shades of Gray and got some ideas. He said

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:35.680
<v Speaker 2>he never raped or hit his wife. Side note here,

0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:38.480
<v Speaker 2>this wasn't like some other cases I've seen where you

0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:42.080
<v Speaker 2>have an accusation of rough sex and the defense claims, well,

0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:46.520
<v Speaker 2>we were having rough sex. Something went wrong. Christopher was

0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:49.440
<v Speaker 2>saying straight up, none of the abuse allegations were true

0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:53.400
<v Speaker 2>at all, that Terran's wild claims were a cry for help,

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 2>that all of it was a lie. The defense attorney,

0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Katie Thorne, argued Terran may have become addicted to the

0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:05.320
<v Speaker 2>attention she received after making some of these allegations. Was

0:27:05.400 --> 0:27:08.640
<v Speaker 2>the tape a sexual assault or just a couple having

0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:13.320
<v Speaker 2>a kinky sex life. The prosecution tried to paint Christopher

0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:16.480
<v Speaker 2>as having a nice guy facade. At one point, they

0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:18.600
<v Speaker 2>asked him if he was angry with Terran. He said

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.160
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't. Then they said, well, if none of this

0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.880
<v Speaker 2>was true, if she was making all this up, why

0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:27.240
<v Speaker 2>aren't you mad at her? Christopher said it was complicated.

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:29.560
<v Speaker 2>He said he found it hard to be angry with

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:32.360
<v Speaker 2>a ghost, and that he believed whatever was going on

0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:35.760
<v Speaker 2>with Terran, that she had been deeply unhappy and troubled.

0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:40.560
<v Speaker 2>According to the Guardian's court report, Christopher said that being

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:45.600
<v Speaker 2>angry would never change what had happened. The prosecution asked

0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:49.400
<v Speaker 2>him about Terran's diary entry, the one she wrote about

0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:53.240
<v Speaker 2>the day he blew up. Christopher claimed that the diary

0:27:53.360 --> 0:27:55.960
<v Speaker 2>entry had shocked him. He said he had zero memory

0:27:56.000 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 2>of Taren being upset about anything they did sexually. The

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:03.920
<v Speaker 2>audio that prosecution dubbed the rape tape was actually played

0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:08.320
<v Speaker 2>in court. I cannot imagine the pain of Michelle Terran's

0:28:08.360 --> 0:28:11.240
<v Speaker 2>mom while this was going on. By the way, the

0:28:11.320 --> 0:28:14.680
<v Speaker 2>prosecution grilled Christopher about the fact that even though Christopher

0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.760
<v Speaker 2>said he only spanked Terran once or twice, they could

0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 2>hear twelve slapping sounds in court. Christopher said the sounds

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:25.720
<v Speaker 2>were bumps and thumps and said, quote, it's hard to

0:28:25.720 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 2>say exactly what's going on, but certainly not me assaulting

0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:33.680
<v Speaker 2>or restraining end quote. There are so many things in

0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:36.680
<v Speaker 2>this case that can be taken two ways, like a

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:40.360
<v Speaker 2>conversation Michelle talked about on the stand where she said

0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Tarran had told her that Christopher discussed killing Karen and

0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:49.120
<v Speaker 2>dissolving her body and acid. This sounds bad, but Christopher

0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:52.080
<v Speaker 2>insisted it was a joke, and he put it into context,

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 2>saying that they were referring to a scene in Breaking Bad,

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:58.080
<v Speaker 2>presumably the one where Jesse Pinkman puts the drug dealer

0:28:58.120 --> 0:29:01.880
<v Speaker 2>into an acid fill bath. The defense argued that anything

0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:06.400
<v Speaker 2>including recordings of rough consensual sex, can sound bad when

0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:10.640
<v Speaker 2>taken out of context. Both sides seemed to agree that

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 2>something was very wrong with Terran and that she was suffering.

0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:19.000
<v Speaker 2>The prosecutor, Tom Little, claimed that between February of twenty

0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:22.320
<v Speaker 2>sixteen and the date of Terren's death, there were at

0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:26.240
<v Speaker 2>least thirty two occasions where she reported injuries or was

0:29:26.280 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 2>seen with injuries. The prosecutor asked Christopher, if he was

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:33.320
<v Speaker 2>telling the truth, how was it possible he didn't notice

0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:37.000
<v Speaker 2>all these bruises on his wife. Christopher said he did

0:29:37.120 --> 0:29:39.440
<v Speaker 2>notice some, but that he didn't believe they were serious.

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.720
<v Speaker 2>The defense claimed they believed Tarran was concocting these fans

0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>and stating that the injuries were more serious than they were.

0:29:47.760 --> 0:29:50.800
<v Speaker 2>The defense focused on things they could prove, like the

0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 2>fact that Christopher was demonstrably out of the country during

0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:57.400
<v Speaker 2>that crucial period of time in November of twenty sixteen,

0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:02.800
<v Speaker 2>when Arrren said he was assaulting her. Katie Thorn, Chris's attorney,

0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:07.360
<v Speaker 2>called the case kafka esque. This case became hugely controversial

0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:11.880
<v Speaker 2>in the UK because Katie Thorn said it reflected a

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:16.040
<v Speaker 2>dogmatic belief that women who say they are being abused

0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 2>are always telling the truth. The defense argued Christopher was

0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:23.520
<v Speaker 2>not a monster. He was just a normal guy who

0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:26.360
<v Speaker 2>may have been in denial or a little clueless about

0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:30.320
<v Speaker 2>how bad things had gotten with his wife's mental state. Critically,

0:30:30.400 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 2>the defense did not have to prove that Tarran lied.

0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:36.240
<v Speaker 2>All they had to do was create reasonable doubt that

0:30:36.360 --> 0:30:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Christopher had abused her and that this alleged abuse had

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:44.920
<v Speaker 2>directly led to her death. In twenty twenty four, seven

0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 2>years after Teraren took her own life, Christopher married again,

0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.520
<v Speaker 2>and the newspaper reported on his new wife, B because

0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:55.960
<v Speaker 2>she made contributions to a website and also made social

0:30:55.960 --> 0:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>media postings proclaiming Christopher's innocence. On that website, she described

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Christopher as a loving husband and devoted family man. She

0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:08.520
<v Speaker 2>accompanied Christopher to court every day, and according to The Mirror,

0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:13.600
<v Speaker 2>b caused controversy during Christopher's trial when she posted sightseeing

0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:18.400
<v Speaker 2>photos on social media. This was described as a landmark

0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:22.160
<v Speaker 2>case by many media outlets. The courtroom was packed for

0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:26.440
<v Speaker 2>closing arguments. The defense claimed, according to Channel four, that

0:31:26.600 --> 0:31:30.640
<v Speaker 2>male jurors and those with sons may feel very afraid now,

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:34.160
<v Speaker 2>and that the entire prosecution case was built on what

0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:39.240
<v Speaker 2>they called an agenda. The verdict was read. On April

0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:43.440
<v Speaker 2>twenty second, twenty twenty six, Christopher Tribus was acquitted found

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:47.280
<v Speaker 2>not get guilty of all charges. After nine years it

0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:52.680
<v Speaker 2>was over. Speaking outside court after the verdict, Christopher released

0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 2>a statement saying, quote, after three police investigations over the

0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 2>course of ten years, I'm relieved that the jury is

0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:02.880
<v Speaker 2>carefully considered the evidence and reached the correct verdict today.

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:05.440
<v Speaker 2>I want to thank my wife, my family, and my

0:32:05.520 --> 0:32:08.760
<v Speaker 2>friends for their unwavering support, and my legal team for

0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:12.520
<v Speaker 2>their hard work and dedication throughout the process. This has

0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 2>had a profound impact on my life and on those

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:20.560
<v Speaker 2>closest to me. It's been an incredibly difficult experience. I

0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:23.120
<v Speaker 2>would also like to acknowledge that domestic abuse is a

0:32:23.320 --> 0:32:27.200
<v Speaker 2>very real and serious issue and victims must always be supported.

0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Right now, I'll focus on moving forward and rebuilding my

0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:32.240
<v Speaker 2>life with my family.

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:34.160
<v Speaker 3>End quote.

0:32:34.240 --> 0:32:37.280
<v Speaker 2>Then just a couple of days later, the case made

0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:41.600
<v Speaker 2>headlines again. According to skuy News, the Independent Office for

0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Police Conduct said it was exams whether the Wiltshire Police

0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:50.640
<v Speaker 2>had missed opportunities during the original investigation. They said they

0:32:50.680 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 2>were specifically looking into the actions of two officers involved

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:58.160
<v Speaker 2>in the early response. One who is at the crime scene,

0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:00.600
<v Speaker 2>and a second officer who they said had just retired

0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:04.720
<v Speaker 2>from the force. The statement from Wiltshire Police read quote,

0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:08.320
<v Speaker 2>they are being investigated by us for potential gross misconduct.

0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:13.400
<v Speaker 2>Our inquiries continue end quote. Obviously this news just came out,

0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:16.840
<v Speaker 2>but reading this, I have so many more questions. Does

0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:20.120
<v Speaker 2>that mean that they are being investigated for their conduct

0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:24.480
<v Speaker 2>during the original crime scene or for investigating Christopher at all?

0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:32.320
<v Speaker 2>At this point, no misconduct has been proven. Christopher Tribus

0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:35.280
<v Speaker 2>is trying to move on with his life. Meanwhile, Terran's

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:39.720
<v Speaker 2>family is still in shock over the verdict. Michelle Baird

0:33:39.760 --> 0:33:43.400
<v Speaker 2>has said hearing about her daughter's injuries and alleged rape

0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:46.600
<v Speaker 2>was quote something I will never forget.

0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:48.120
<v Speaker 3>End quote.

0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:53.240
<v Speaker 2>She believes that the defense tried to quote assassinate her

0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:55.080
<v Speaker 2>daughter's character and victim.

0:33:54.760 --> 0:33:56.520
<v Speaker 3>Blame end quote.

0:33:56.600 --> 0:34:00.240
<v Speaker 2>She also said, quote she was compassionate, wore her heart

0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 2>in her sleep, and would do anything for anybody. I

0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:06.600
<v Speaker 2>cannot believe how I'm still sitting here today after losing

0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:07.840
<v Speaker 2>my precious child.

0:34:08.080 --> 0:34:09.680
<v Speaker 3>End quote.

0:34:09.760 --> 0:34:13.680
<v Speaker 2>She also criticized officers at her daughter's crime scene. She

0:34:13.760 --> 0:34:17.720
<v Speaker 2>claimed when she got there, she found them drinking tea

0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:24.320
<v Speaker 2>and coffee at the crime scene. So what happens next?

0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:28.840
<v Speaker 2>According to Channel four, the Crown Prosecution Service is still

0:34:28.880 --> 0:34:33.200
<v Speaker 2>assessing a number of alleged domestic abuse suicide cases and

0:34:33.320 --> 0:34:37.840
<v Speaker 2>that they are considering bringing manslaughter charges, which begs the

0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 2>question can a person be responsible for driving someone to

0:34:42.200 --> 0:34:46.040
<v Speaker 2>kill themselves? Is Christopher Trivis's acquittal the end of these

0:34:46.040 --> 0:34:51.080
<v Speaker 2>types of cases or just the beginning. I'm Katherine Townsend.

0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 2>This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line

0:34:55.720 --> 0:34:58.360
<v Speaker 2>is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.

0:34:58.720 --> 0:35:01.960
<v Speaker 2>It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced

0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:05.360
<v Speaker 2>by Etily's Perez. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her

0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:09.520
<v Speaker 2>research assistance and Sarah Burns for legal review. Noah Camera

0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:12.200
<v Speaker 2>mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by

0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Ben Sale. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and

0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:20.200
<v Speaker 2>LC Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone adfree by subscribing to

0:35:20.240 --> 0:35:24.200
<v Speaker 2>the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If

0:35:24.240 --> 0:35:27.040
<v Speaker 2>you were interested in seeing documents and materials from the case,

0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:30.680
<v Speaker 2>you can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gonepod.

0:35:31.240 --> 0:35:33.000
<v Speaker 2>If you have a case, she'd like me and my

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:35.200
<v Speaker 2>team to look into. You can reach out to us

0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:37.600
<v Speaker 2>at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight

0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 2>seven four four six one four five. That's six seven

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<v Speaker 2>eight seven four four six one four five.

0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:49.040
<v Speaker 1>School of Humans