Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Dirk Durham and today I have my good friend Bob Towilliger.
Speaker 1: Happy New Year, Bob, Yeah.
Speaker 2: YouTube.
Speaker 1: Bob is someone I really admire. He's been doing the
Speaker 1: backcountry guiding thing for years and he's just stayed active,
Speaker 1: you know, through his younger days and now in these
Speaker 1: retirement years, he's still still out there getting after it.
Speaker 1: And I thought, you know what Everyone's New Year's resolutions
Speaker 1: at the front of our mind right now. I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's wanting to try to get back into
Speaker 1: shape or get going back on their their workout program
Speaker 1: or their diet. And I thought, you know, who better.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of information out there for all these
Speaker 1: young ThunderCats out there, you know, but you know us
Speaker 1: guys that are aging a little bit, you know, that's
Speaker 1: a different animal altogether, I think. So I thought, who
Speaker 1: better than to get on here than Bob Twilliger. You've
Speaker 1: kind of seen the best of things when it comes
Speaker 1: to fitness and had some setbacks from surgeries and whatnot,
Speaker 1: and I just kind of thought I'd pick your brain.
Speaker 1: And I think our listeners that really like to hear
Speaker 1: what you have to say. But first, Bob, tell us
Speaker 1: about your backstory. How did you get into backcountry guiding?
Speaker 1: Where did it all start?
Speaker 2: So? I actually moved to Colorado thirty years ago. It
Speaker 2: was work related. I worked for IBM for thirty six years,
Speaker 2: and as time went on in IBM, I started thinking
Speaker 2: about life after IBM, particularly as Corporate America started looking
Speaker 2: at moving work offshore and stuff like that, seeing somebodies
Speaker 2: leave the company, and I just said, you know, I
Speaker 2: need to be thinking about what's next. And had this
Speaker 2: passion for outcunning, which I certainly got into hot and
Speaker 2: heavy when I moved here. And as time went on,
Speaker 2: you know, I had some success on my own and
Speaker 2: then lo and behold, an opportunity came in my way
Speaker 2: to guide through a guy that actually was a head
Speaker 2: packer for a group called Winterhock Outfitters. I'd run into
Speaker 2: on the trail packing my elk out and he said,
Speaker 2: you need to come down and work for us. And
Speaker 2: I thought about that, and I said, you know what,
Speaker 2: what a better way to spend you know, my life
Speaker 2: moving on from corporate America and use my outdoor skills
Speaker 2: and my people skills I developed and IBM to get
Speaker 2: involved in guiding, So this will actually be my sixteenth
Speaker 2: year guiding. I don't guide elkhunts full time anymore, although
Speaker 2: I did for nine years. I started when I was
Speaker 2: fifty one, you know, and in those nine years of
Speaker 2: guiding elk hunts, I was out there seven weeks every fall,
Speaker 2: going at it hot and heavy. So, you know, later
Speaker 2: in life, as opposed to some guys do it early.
Speaker 2: I was able to do it later. But certainly some
Speaker 2: of the stuff we're going to talk about tonight with fitness,
Speaker 2: we'll play right into that. So you know, today I
Speaker 2: still guide. I guy try to guide a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks a year, you know, elk hunting. I do guide
Speaker 2: a fair amount of fly fishing yet and then the
Speaker 2: remainder I'm still in the backcountry four or five weeks
Speaker 2: a year between a couple of weeks guiding and then
Speaker 2: hunting with my son and hunting with other friends and
Speaker 2: for myself, you know. So I still get after it
Speaker 2: pretty good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome. So I've kind of said before, you know,
Speaker 1: a person doesn't have to be an elite athlete to
Speaker 1: enjoy el cutting, but I will say you will enjoy
Speaker 1: el cutting more the better shape you're in if you've
Speaker 1: got a few extra pounds, you know, you know, you
Speaker 1: read a lot of internet forum stuff or a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff on Facebook. You know, guys are trying to
Speaker 1: you know, be minimalists on their backpack, you know. Or
Speaker 1: they're they're saving ounces here, they're they're cutting their toothbrush
Speaker 1: handles off, They're doing anything they can to save a
Speaker 1: little bit of weight on their backpack. Yet a lot
Speaker 1: of us carry around several extra pounds in the back
Speaker 1: country every fall. And I feel like, you know, we
Speaker 1: if we tried as hard, you know, from reducing our
Speaker 1: body weight as much as we did or packweight, man,
Speaker 1: we'd really be kicking some butt. But anyway, how how
Speaker 1: important do you think it is to stay have to
Speaker 1: maintain a pretty good level of fitness year round versus
Speaker 1: doing the old up and down thing. I'm kind of
Speaker 1: guilty of the old up and down thing. As soon
Speaker 1: as hunting season closes off, I kind of I kind
Speaker 1: of go into hibernation mode and try to catch up
Speaker 1: on stuff at home and a lot of video editing
Speaker 1: and a lot of work stuff, and I don't get
Speaker 1: out and I'm not as active as I normally am.
Speaker 1: How important do you think it is to stay stay
Speaker 1: pretty pretty fit year round.
Speaker 2: I think it's real important, and I've been actually been
Speaker 2: fortunate that it's come easy to me. I've been hooked
Speaker 2: on it. You know. I played three sports in high
Speaker 2: school and two in college. And you know, I actually
Speaker 2: use weight training as a means to wean myself off sports.
Speaker 2: But a key ingredient in that too, even when I
Speaker 2: was younger, was it helped me manage stress both in
Speaker 2: the job and at home, you know. And then of
Speaker 2: course how that all translates to el cunning. We all
Speaker 2: know that when you're getting out there and getting after
Speaker 2: it now. I mean, I tell people it is a
Speaker 2: physical test like no other. And you know, if the
Speaker 2: hiking and getting up early and the altitude doesn't get
Speaker 2: to you, wait till you get an animal on the
Speaker 2: ground and have to wrestle with that and get the
Speaker 2: meat out, you know, and then still get your camp out.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of work. So certainly I'm a big
Speaker 2: advocate of keeping in shape and trying to do that
Speaker 2: year round. That doesn't mean that I don't take some
Speaker 2: breaks and let my body rest. That becomes more important
Speaker 2: with aging. The other thing, of course, that becomes more
Speaker 2: important with aging is that if you don't use your body.
Speaker 2: There's an old saying, if you don't use it, you
Speaker 2: lose it. And what I'll tell you is is that
Speaker 2: as you get older, if you don't keep after it,
Speaker 2: you don't keep after it, you're going to you can
Speaker 2: get to a point where you might never get it back.
Speaker 2: And I've been really fortunate, like you pointed out, Dirk,
Speaker 2: just as to provide some example, I'm sixty seven and
Speaker 2: a half. In the last three years, I've had four
Speaker 2: major surgeries I've had you know, over time, I've had
Speaker 2: both hips replace I've had both shoulders worked on, and
Speaker 2: then last year, probably the most serious, I had a
Speaker 2: three level cervical net fusion to fix some stenosis in
Speaker 2: my neck where I lost strength in my left arm
Speaker 2: and I am a lefty. And the good news is
Speaker 2: all that went good. I followed my doctor's orders in
Speaker 2: my rehab and my cup recovery. But more important than ever,
Speaker 2: you know, when I got beyond that point, I stayed
Speaker 2: in the gym, and I stayed with the fitness aspect.
Speaker 2: And you know, I had my surgery last March, and
Speaker 2: lo and behold this October I was packing my elk
Speaker 2: out on my back, you know, seven miles in the
Speaker 2: back country. So it's all doable. It's just a matter
Speaker 2: of prioritizing the exercise to a point where it really
Speaker 2: is a part of your life and it's your ability
Speaker 2: to preserve your quality of life as you get older.
Speaker 1: Great, how often are you hitting the gym? Are you
Speaker 1: going every single day? Are you carving out just like
Speaker 1: a schedule throughout the week. How are you able to
Speaker 1: do this and get in that gym as much as
Speaker 1: you'd like to?
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's an excellent question because particularly for
Speaker 2: younger guys with families or you know, just the wear
Speaker 2: and tear of work, it can make it quite challenging
Speaker 2: and then trying to have a home life too. But
Speaker 2: for me now at my point, and what I've always
Speaker 2: tried to strive for is that I get in there
Speaker 2: to train four or five days a week, you know,
Speaker 2: depending on how my body's feeling. That's something we'll talk about.
Speaker 2: Is that sure? And you don't overdo it, you know.
Speaker 2: The idea is to get yourself in shape, not wear
Speaker 2: your body out, like I've pretty much done a good
Speaker 2: job of that. But good news is they've rebuilt me
Speaker 2: and I'm still going. But I try to get in
Speaker 2: four or five days a week, you know, weight training,
Speaker 2: and you know, I try to make sure I at
Speaker 2: least take one to two days off a week, and
Speaker 2: within there I do some I do some cardio stuff too,
Speaker 2: but leave it or not. I don't do as much
Speaker 2: cardio as some people might think, and that's partly due
Speaker 2: to the way that I work out. I work out
Speaker 2: at a fast pace. I do, you know a lot
Speaker 2: of different exercises, you know, where I super set and
Speaker 2: do one thing and then go do something else where.
Speaker 2: I'm not sitting around like a power lifter would resting,
Speaker 2: you know, so I get my heart rate up in
Speaker 2: other ways, and then I still you know, I do
Speaker 2: a little bit of cardio, but more the high intensity cardio,
Speaker 2: you know, versus the long range endurance cardio, because that
Speaker 2: kind of a tendency to actually break your body down
Speaker 2: and lose muscle too.
Speaker 1: So you're saying you do like probably lower weight, higher
Speaker 1: reps and maybe taple like circuit training type stuff.
Speaker 2: Yes, yep, that's that's exactly what I do. I focus
Speaker 2: on the total body workout. I tend at my age now.
Speaker 2: I mean I used to. When I was younger, I
Speaker 2: worked each muscle group twice a week, So if I
Speaker 2: worked arms or legs, I did that. I had a
Speaker 2: routine I did twice a week. As I've gotten older,
Speaker 2: I do each muscle group one day a week. And
Speaker 2: what I like about that is it enables me to
Speaker 2: focus on some of the smaller stuff, particularly like in
Speaker 2: the shoulders, like your rotator cuff, rear delts, side delts,
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, not just the stuff that looks
Speaker 2: good in the mirror from the front, you know. And
Speaker 2: then by working each muscle group hard one day a week,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm getting you know, a full, complete workout
Speaker 2: on that muscle group. But I give myself a week
Speaker 2: to recover before I hit it again. So you know,
Speaker 2: I'm very very conscious that I don't want to overtrain
Speaker 2: because that's how you develop inflammation, that's how you develop injuries.
Speaker 2: And you know, again with aging, that's something you really
Speaker 2: need to be focused on. And even when you're younger,
Speaker 2: you know, because you go at it hard, sometimes you
Speaker 2: just need to back off and let your body recuperate.
Speaker 2: That's key to really key to getting stronger is on
Speaker 2: your muscles to recover. Well.
Speaker 1: I've seen some pictures of you back when you were
Speaker 1: a young buck, and you're pretty impressive. You're pretty impressive.
Speaker 1: You've kind of a specimen, and I've seen some pictures
Speaker 1: of you these days and you're still kind of a specimen.
Speaker 1: So I think it's working. Whatever you're doing. It sounds
Speaker 1: like now you see a lot of guys doing like
Speaker 1: you kind of alluded to a little bit earlier, some
Speaker 1: of the powerlifting stuff, doing a lot of cleans and
Speaker 1: just like really heavy things do you do I almost
Speaker 1: take I feel like you have the take on it, like, man,
Speaker 1: maybe that isn't as beneficial because you can really hurt yourself.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, absolutely, And probably the one thing I should
Speaker 2: have said in the beginning I'll say is that I've
Speaker 2: had some really good help over the years. Probably Number
Speaker 2: one is my son. Because I'm not a certified nutrition
Speaker 2: I'm not a certified trainer, but I've been doing I've
Speaker 2: been working out a long time with my athletic So
Speaker 2: my son actually has a degree in high performance sports
Speaker 2: training in kinesiology. So a lot of the information that
Speaker 2: I'll talk about here, you know, is courtesy of him.
Speaker 2: But you're right, some of those exercises and the real
Speaker 2: heavy weight, you know, you put yourself at risk. And
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that I like to
Speaker 2: say to younger guys is that, particularly because as we're
Speaker 2: all younger, I did it, you're trying to do really
Speaker 2: super superman heavy weight. You know a lot of times
Speaker 2: you can do it, and you think you're getting away
Speaker 2: with it. But things that you think you're getting away
Speaker 2: with later in life have a way of showing up.
Speaker 2: So you need to you really need to keep that
Speaker 2: in mind, you know, and and and you know, the
Speaker 2: other thing I'll say is it relates to exercises. As
Speaker 2: you get older, some of the more things that you
Speaker 2: did when you were younger that I would call higher
Speaker 2: risk exercises. You need to find other ways to work
Speaker 2: those muscles within a means that's lower risk. So for example,
Speaker 2: a great example of that is that one thing God
Speaker 2: has always blessed me with his good legs, which plays
Speaker 2: real key into you know, elk hunting. I used to
Speaker 2: do a lot of squats. I could do heavy squats,
Speaker 2: you know, traditional barbell squats. I don't do those anymore.
Speaker 2: My body's not going to take that. What I do
Speaker 2: do is I'm fortunate the jim I belong to they
Speaker 2: have a machine called the Rogue Belt Squad, So the
Speaker 2: belt actually goes around your waist and you're really pulling
Speaker 2: with your waist and you get the leg strength training
Speaker 2: benefits that you get from squats, but doing it in
Speaker 2: a means that's a lot lower risk. Another one I
Speaker 2: would talk about is deadlifts. You know, dead lifts, a
Speaker 2: lot of guys can deadlift a lot of weight. Well,
Speaker 2: as you get older, you know, and particularly you try
Speaker 2: to crank that weight up, you can easily strain your back.
Speaker 2: You know, there's other ways and machines that you can
Speaker 2: use to do some of the same stuff. Cleans is
Speaker 2: probably another great one. You know, if you're going to
Speaker 2: do cleans as you get older, stay light because that body,
Speaker 2: that heavyweight jarn you you know it will it will
Speaker 2: compress your joints or later it's going to show up
Speaker 2: and it's going to impact your ability to do what
Speaker 2: you want to do.
Speaker 1: So kind of give us some So you said you
Speaker 1: don't focus too much on cardio, do you ever do
Speaker 1: do you ever do any rucking? What do you think
Speaker 1: about rucking? You know, to get in shape for elk hunting.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what you mean.
Speaker 1: So throwing a backpack on with a certain amount of weight,
Speaker 1: maybe forty pounds in your pack at sixty pounds, I.
Speaker 2: Do a lot of that. That's that was one of
Speaker 2: the things I like to do. Is that typically is
Speaker 2: you know, and sometimes here in Colorado we get off
Speaker 2: and on, we get breaks in the weather all winter.
Speaker 2: So I will throw a backpack on maybe twenty twenty
Speaker 2: five thirty pounds, and I'll go on like a three
Speaker 2: or four mile hike, you know, up and back and
Speaker 2: push it. You know, I'm not out there trying to
Speaker 2: do seven, eight, ten miles. You know, I don't need
Speaker 2: to do that because all I'm going to do is
Speaker 2: wear myself down. I want to try to I want
Speaker 2: to try to build myself up so that elk season
Speaker 2: comes around in September, I'm just hitting my peak so
Speaker 2: then I can really get after it. I don't want
Speaker 2: to be worn out when September comes. I want to
Speaker 2: be ready to go. But no, that's a good one.
Speaker 2: One of the other ones that I like to do
Speaker 2: where I can get my heart rate up and I
Speaker 2: keep the weight light so I can really you know,
Speaker 2: almost sprint when I'm doing it, but I do a
Speaker 2: lot of sled poles, you know, both up and back.
Speaker 2: It works on power in your legs, but it also
Speaker 2: it gets your heart rate up good. You know, if
Speaker 2: you got a buddy and you just kind of alternate
Speaker 2: back and forth, and if you've got a decent place
Speaker 2: in your gym or somewhere to do that, you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2: You get your heart rate up really good just doing
Speaker 2: stuff like that. Rowing machines probably one I like to
Speaker 2: do if I'm indoors as well, because this total body
Speaker 2: and I find I can get my heart rate up
Speaker 2: really quick with that, as opposed to some of the
Speaker 2: stationary bikes. I mean these new bikes, you know, where
Speaker 2: you're using your upper body and lower body, they're more intense.
Speaker 2: My problem with those for an older guy like myself,
Speaker 2: you know, the resistance is stiff enough that you know,
Speaker 2: if I do too much of that, it can get
Speaker 2: my knees aggravated, So I I try to stay away.
Speaker 1: From that right on. You ever do like the stair climbers.
Speaker 1: I know Jason Selps is a huge that's his kind
Speaker 1: of go to cardio workout. Is he love He's got
Speaker 1: a stair climber, and he'll send me pictures of him
Speaker 1: just dridged in sweat. You know, he'll do it on
Speaker 1: his lunch break or whatever, and he'll climb a thousand
Speaker 1: feet or whatever on a lunch break, and they're awesome.
Speaker 2: In fact, I'm going to tell you that, you know,
Speaker 2: I used to when I was younger. I was, I
Speaker 2: was a much bigger guy. Now I go about one
Speaker 2: hundred and ninety pounds. I'm back to my high school week,
Speaker 2: and that's because we just can't maintain the muscle mass.
Speaker 2: But I was almost two twenty when I was in
Speaker 2: my thirties and forties, and I was every bit as lean,
Speaker 2: and I was addicted to running ten k's And the
Speaker 2: way I used to train for ten k's was not
Speaker 2: running on the road, was using that stair climber. No wow, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I ran a thirty nine to fifteen ten k
Speaker 2: in the Boulder Bowler when I was like thirty nine
Speaker 2: years old at two hundred and twenty pounds. So the
Speaker 2: stair climbers, they definitely work.
Speaker 1: Definitely, Yeah, yeah, definitely. I've noticed that that rucking or
Speaker 1: you know, throwing a backpack on and especially if it's heavy. Man.
Speaker 1: It's sure if you can do that before season, definitely
Speaker 1: leading up to season, it sure toughens up your shoulders,
Speaker 1: because I know on yours I haven't done that. And
Speaker 1: the first few days of the hunt, Man, my shoulders
Speaker 1: are getting tired. You know, you're putting on a lot
Speaker 1: of miles every day, and you're you're not used to
Speaker 1: carrying a backpack, especially one with you know, with all
Speaker 1: my gear, and I imagine I'd have to weigh it,
Speaker 1: but I bet it's at least twenty pounds with all
Speaker 1: my gear, with the water and food and everything included.
Speaker 1: And like the first couple of days, man, you shoulders, like, man,
Speaker 1: they're getting kind of tired. But I felt like, if
Speaker 1: I've you know, the month or two leading up to
Speaker 1: elk season, if I've been active with a pack, with
Speaker 1: a backpack, you know, carrying heavy loads, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: do a lot of I'll put out trail cameras and
Speaker 1: I'll put some salt out just to draw an animal there,
Speaker 1: to get to see what there is on the camera,
Speaker 1: and in some pretty nasty country and through the summer,
Speaker 1: and I really love that. And it's a it's a
Speaker 1: it's a great workout that I really enjoy to do.
Speaker 1: But it sure it'll sure tell you where you're lacking,
Speaker 1: you know, and endurance, the ability to carry a heavy load,
Speaker 1: you know, bag assaults sixty pounds or whatever, plus all
Speaker 1: your year, you know, and some pretty uneven terrain.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's almost like the same places you would normally would
Speaker 1: would traverse during an elk an elk season. So it
Speaker 1: really gets you into into shape. And you know, wherever
Speaker 1: it's legal, I mean, that's a pretty great workout, but
Speaker 1: some some states they kind of frown upon that. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I'll set out some trail cameras and sometimes I'll get
Speaker 1: some stuff on there, and sometimes I won't get anything,
Speaker 1: but but it's still it's still fun. It's like Christmas
Speaker 1: Day every time you open up that trail.
Speaker 2: No, I do the same. In one comment I would
Speaker 2: make there is because you know, not all guys are
Speaker 2: as fortunate as we are to live in the mountains area,
Speaker 2: you know, so it can be harder to train. And
Speaker 2: you know, there's no reason though you can't put a
Speaker 2: weighted backpack and get on that stair climber, for example,
Speaker 2: I see a lot of guys doing that. You know,
Speaker 2: and that's a great way to train for those that
Speaker 2: don't live here. I also try to do, you know,
Speaker 2: at least two backpacking trips during the summer with my son,
Speaker 2: where it's kind of combo where I'm doing some fly
Speaker 2: backcountry fly fishing, but also doing some scouting maybe if
Speaker 2: I'm in a new area, you know, and again we
Speaker 2: got we got that heavy pack on and you're in
Speaker 2: the terrain that you're going to be in the fall,
Speaker 2: you know. I also use it as an opportunity sometimes
Speaker 2: not only to scout, but just to go out there
Speaker 2: with on X and try to find some easy way
Speaker 2: in and outs to some of the areas that I
Speaker 2: want to hunt if I'm a newer country.
Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely, yeah, I love that summertime scouting stuff.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Some folks, you know, they're like, you know, I just
Speaker 1: don't you know, who live in Elk Country. They're just
Speaker 1: they say, you know, I don't have the luxury of
Speaker 1: you know, taking the time away from my family or
Speaker 1: whatever to go check these places out. And I'm always like, well,
Speaker 1: you kind of sometimes have to do it like a
Speaker 1: dual purpose trip, you know, take the family and then
Speaker 1: get up early. A lot of times. You know, my
Speaker 1: family they always like to kind of sleep in when
Speaker 1: we're camping, so that that leaves you to get up
Speaker 1: super early before daylight, get out there, get your work done,
Speaker 1: and get your check things checked out, and then get
Speaker 1: back to camp about the time everybody comes out of bed,
Speaker 1: and and it works great for everybody, and and it
Speaker 1: just makes such a great summer. So that's a yeah,
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite things to do. What are
Speaker 1: some other things you can think of that that that
Speaker 1: you had written down there that they would kind of
Speaker 1: help our listeners get in shape stay in shape? What
Speaker 1: about like diet? Are you just like chugging beers all
Speaker 1: the time and and wine and whiskey and you know,
Speaker 1: just living it up eating cheeseburgers. What what do you
Speaker 1: what are you doing for your diet? They say you
Speaker 1: can't outwork a bad diet. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's a that's a great point, you know,
Speaker 2: and you know, I'll put it in context here that
Speaker 2: one of the discussions I like to have on this
Speaker 2: subject is that you know, particularly for you guys that
Speaker 2: are younger, you can you can get away with a
Speaker 2: whole lot when you're younger, you can get away with
Speaker 2: eating a whole lot of stuff that you as you
Speaker 2: get later years, you're not going to be able to
Speaker 2: eat unless you want to weigh three hundred pounds. You
Speaker 2: can get away with drinking more, you can get away
Speaker 2: with even getting away from exercise. But as you get older,
Speaker 2: those things will all work against you if you do them.
Speaker 2: And of course drinking is one of them that I
Speaker 2: like to talk about. I mean I like to have
Speaker 2: I'm not I've never been a beer guy, but I
Speaker 2: know a lot of what I call these new high
Speaker 2: test brews or micro bruise. You know, these I p
Speaker 2: as a lot of younger folks are drinking. You know,
Speaker 2: they're they're fine and moderation. But if you go out
Speaker 2: and you really tear into those, you got to realize that.
Speaker 2: You know, in a sixteen ouch plint, you're probably talking
Speaker 2: about three hundred and fifty calories of pop or more,
Speaker 2: depending on the potency of that beer. I tend to
Speaker 2: more take a little nip a whiskey or two. You know,
Speaker 2: I enjoy that, particularly in the back country because there's
Speaker 2: not a lot of weight. The other thing that you'll
Speaker 2: find as you get older, if you want to get
Speaker 2: up and hunt the next morning. You don't want to
Speaker 2: be drinking a lot of beer before you go to
Speaker 2: bed because you're going to spend all night going to
Speaker 2: the bathroom. And that's another that's another subject for another day.
Speaker 2: But yeah, certainly alcohol is one. Diet's another one. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you I eat well, but I try
Speaker 2: to eat balanced. I try to make sure I take
Speaker 2: in enough protein. That can be really hard to do.
Speaker 2: There are some magic numbers around protein, depending on how
Speaker 2: you talk to They talk about one point five grams
Speaker 2: of protein for every kilogram of body fat. So I'm
Speaker 2: one hundred and ninety pounds, that's roughly eighty six kilograms.
Speaker 2: That says I should be taken in one hundred and
Speaker 2: thirty grams of protein a day. If I'm working out hard,
Speaker 2: that's easier. That's easier said than done. You've got to
Speaker 2: really focus on what I'm taking into your body, you know.
Speaker 2: And you do got to eat, you know. But what
Speaker 2: you don't want to do is you don't want to
Speaker 2: beat and a bunch of fried foods. If you've got
Speaker 2: a sweet tooth, that's going to work against you. Those
Speaker 2: are just empty calories. That are going to, you know,
Speaker 2: work against you in the long haul. You know. The
Speaker 2: one thing I will say, though, particularly as you established
Speaker 2: the habit and you get working out on the schedule
Speaker 2: that works for you and a routine that works for you,
Speaker 2: is that part of the fun of exercising is you
Speaker 2: can eat what you want now and then. And I
Speaker 2: strongly encourage cheat days or when you go on vacation,
Speaker 2: you know you're going to splurge a little bit. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's that's cold living. But you know, the bulk of
Speaker 2: the year, I try to keep it between the boundaries.
Speaker 2: You know. I make sure I take in enough food,
Speaker 2: but I'm not overdoing it and I do you know,
Speaker 2: I do. I don't worry too much. For me, I
Speaker 2: have a high metabolism and sometimes if I put on
Speaker 2: a little bit more weight during the winter, I know
Speaker 2: I'm going to burn it off when up there and
Speaker 2: start hiking at elevation. But for some guys, that's that's
Speaker 2: not an option. So you're going to need to really
Speaker 2: tune into the calories you take in and make sure
Speaker 2: you're taking in the right calories, not stuff that's just
Speaker 2: gonna put extra pounds on your midsection.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, good point. I'd like to take a moment
Speaker 1: here to remind everybody if you have any questions for
Speaker 1: me or Jason Phelps or a guest, email CTD at
Speaker 1: phelpsgame Calls dot com and we'll read your question on
Speaker 1: air and see if we can get anybody to answer
Speaker 1: them for you. I don't have any of those today, Jason,
Speaker 1: He's been kind of clearing out that that bucket of questions,
Speaker 1: So that's been good. So other aspects of the hunt,
Speaker 1: you know, I've I feel like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people doing a lot of big lift like heavyweight liifts.
Speaker 1: What you're telling me makes more sense because you're kind
Speaker 1: of doing a complete body workout. You're built, you're kind
Speaker 1: of building staminay, you're building some strength, but you're not
Speaker 1: overdoing it. You know. Some of those exercise I see
Speaker 1: people doing, they're pretty risky, Like let's say a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of those pull ups or maybe those weird pull
Speaker 1: ups the crossfitters do though, just man, they make my
Speaker 1: shoulders freak out right. Yeah, So how I feel like
Speaker 1: pull ups probably, I mean, they're a pretty good workout
Speaker 1: for a lot of muscle groups. But and I just
Speaker 1: try to picture in the back country, what I'm doing
Speaker 1: every day in the back country, and what kind of
Speaker 1: exercises I'm going to need to get me to the
Speaker 1: elk once they get the elk killed, get the elk
Speaker 1: worked up, hung up, and then extracted from the woods.
Speaker 1: Do you have any tips, you know, for for some
Speaker 1: of those for you know, once you get your elk down,
Speaker 1: or or maybe some of those maybe some little key
Speaker 1: workouts that you've really seen that really benefited some of
Speaker 1: the some of the things that that you actually have
Speaker 1: to do when you're elk hunting, Like there's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you got this little secret exercise you really like that
Speaker 1: You've seen some difference. It moves the needle for you
Speaker 1: doing l hunting things.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, yeah. I mean, first of all, I'll say
Speaker 2: that for elk cunting, you know, a strong core, a
Speaker 2: strong bat, strong core, strong back, strong legs is absolutely essential.
Speaker 2: I mean you got to really work on that. So
Speaker 2: you need some leg strength, you know, and certainly stuff
Speaker 2: like squats, lunges, leg press, glute races. That's another one
Speaker 2: that blutes is you know, gals work on glutes a lot, right,
Speaker 2: but a lot of guys you don't see guys work
Speaker 2: on their glutes, particularly younger guys in the gym. And
Speaker 2: what I can tell you is where I learned about
Speaker 2: glutes is when I had my hips replaced. You know,
Speaker 2: I got after you know, I got going again pretty
Speaker 2: quick after that. I tried to guide full time that fall,
Speaker 2: and lo and behold, my knees started acting. But I
Speaker 2: never had much trouble with my knees, thank goodness. And
Speaker 2: what I really learned from that is that I didn't
Speaker 2: work my glutes, and from those hip replaces, my glutes
Speaker 2: got really weak. But glutes are where you get your
Speaker 2: power going uphill. Blots are where you're going to be
Speaker 2: able to carry those heavy loads. So that's one area
Speaker 2: I would definitely hone in on. And there's a lot
Speaker 2: of great, you know, leg strength exercises. What's really key
Speaker 2: because we're all built symmetrically different. Certain machines might work
Speaker 2: well for me, but maybe not for a guy that's
Speaker 2: shorter and thicker than me, and vice versa. So you've
Speaker 2: got to explore and get some help on those things,
Speaker 2: you know, to find out what's going to work for you.
Speaker 2: But you really like strength, and that core strength is important.
Speaker 2: Upper body strength the course is important. You know, you're
Speaker 2: shooting a bow, you know, you really want to work
Speaker 2: on your shoulders and your back muscles, you know, and uh,
Speaker 2: you know you're gonna need to be strong up top too.
Speaker 2: You get an elk on the ground, you gotta skin
Speaker 2: this thing by yourself. It's not easy, you know. And
Speaker 2: I can about the last three I've done. Unfortunately, I've
Speaker 2: done by myself. And it's not like when I was
Speaker 2: younger and I could just throw these things around. Not
Speaker 2: that I was throwing them around like a white tail,
Speaker 2: but I can move them around pretty good. And now
Speaker 2: it's a lot more challenging. So I got stuff like
Speaker 2: extra paracoute sure parachute cord in my pack. I'm cying
Speaker 2: off legs, or if I got to roll one over
Speaker 2: and he's you know, I got to roll him up
Speaker 2: hill because of the way he died. To skin the
Speaker 2: other side, at least I can get a rope on
Speaker 2: each leg, front and rear and tie it to the
Speaker 2: tree uphill and kind of get him halfway up the
Speaker 2: hill and then get underneath it. So it's a little
Speaker 2: stuff like that that is really going to be important
Speaker 2: to being able to deal with it. You know, as
Speaker 2: you get older, and even for for younger guys, you know,
Speaker 2: if you're not as big and strong as some of
Speaker 2: the other guys out there, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, use those loads leverage points and and I've
Speaker 1: I've worked up a lot of elk by myself and
Speaker 1: parachute cord man. That's really saved the day in certain
Speaker 1: circumstances steep on super steep ground, for instance. Yeah, tying
Speaker 1: off that that elks and to keep it from sliding
Speaker 1: down the hill and further. But once I've got that
Speaker 1: thing anchor, it's pretty good. It seemed like it was
Speaker 1: really steep ground. It seems like I could maneuver the bowl,
Speaker 1: you know, back and forth, side to side pretty well.
Speaker 1: But you know, making sure you do that before you
Speaker 1: get to rolling the thing around too much, and you
Speaker 1: save yourself a lot of work. That thing starts tumbling
Speaker 1: down the hill and gets wedged between a blowdown in
Speaker 1: the ground, and now you've got to you got your
Speaker 1: work cut out for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no doubt, no doubt. The other thing
Speaker 2: I do too, for packing them out is that you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't used to worry about this. I mean, there
Speaker 2: are times I put two lank quarters on my frame
Speaker 2: pack and packed it out bone in. As I've gotten older,
Speaker 2: you know, I bone everything out, you know, And that's
Speaker 2: one thing I'd encourage guys, particularly if you're way back
Speaker 2: in or an older hunter. You know, there's lots of
Speaker 2: great videos out there on YouTube on how to you know,
Speaker 2: bone out a quarter including the front shoulder and one
Speaker 2: nice piece you can roll it up and keep all
Speaker 2: the clean meat against clean meat, use good quality game
Speaker 2: bags and you're getting rid of a lot of weight
Speaker 2: that way, you know. And it also makes it easier
Speaker 2: to get it and you're cooler and get it chilled
Speaker 2: down too without that bony, you know, depending on where
Speaker 2: you are and what you're doing and what your packing
Speaker 2: abilities are.
Speaker 1: Right there seems to be a lot of information or
Speaker 1: ideas on the internet of how much how much meat
Speaker 1: or does a guy actually pack out of the back country,
Speaker 1: because you know, there's there's all these different takes on, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a twelve hundred pound animal and a boil is
Speaker 1: a twelve hundred pound animal, or it's an eight hundred
Speaker 1: pound animal, you know, and then people try to figure
Speaker 1: out the waste difference between you know, guts, hide and
Speaker 1: feathers versus meat they're actually going to pack out. But
Speaker 1: kind of what I've I've found and I'll i'll let
Speaker 1: you weigh in on this too. Is so if you
Speaker 1: do the gutless method and you leave the bones in
Speaker 1: the in the front shoulder and the hind quarter cut
Speaker 1: off at the knee, no heide on it on an
Speaker 1: app And then this is these are Idaho measurements. So
Speaker 1: an average Idaho five point or a big out of
Speaker 1: a five point average smaller six point, you're going to
Speaker 1: look at about a sixty five pound hind quarter and
Speaker 1: about a forty five pound front shoulder yep. And then
Speaker 1: with all the neck meat, rib meat and the backstraps,
Speaker 1: your total weight you're going to be anywhere from two
Speaker 1: hundred to two hundred and fifty pounds. Would that kind
Speaker 1: of would that kind of jive with what you've seen
Speaker 1: over the years.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, And you know I did shoot a nice
Speaker 2: six by here in Colorado. I guess it was a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago now, and we boned it out
Speaker 2: and we weighed all the meat because we we ended
Speaker 2: up you know, we had a packet to where my
Speaker 2: remote camp was, and then I've got a couple of mules,
Speaker 2: so that my buddy brought them in and we threw
Speaker 2: the meat on mules. But we made weighed all the meat,
Speaker 2: and it was two hundred and twenty five pounds of meat. Now,
Speaker 2: so sometimes it can be bigger. Yet you know, you
Speaker 2: shoot a good one. Yeah, yeah, I'd say your numbers
Speaker 2: are right on that. Sixty sixty five pounds is about
Speaker 2: average for a hind quarter in front quarter, you know,
Speaker 2: depending enough, if you got the neck meat and the
Speaker 2: flank meat all attached to one piece, or forty five
Speaker 2: pounds is definitely in.
Speaker 1: The ballpark, right. And then I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people kind of get caught up in like, man, you
Speaker 1: got to pack all this meat out, you know, right
Speaker 1: away before it gets spoiled. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: can do it. And you know, because they start thinking
Speaker 1: about that two hundred fifty pounds or maybe maybe they've
Speaker 1: heard other people say, you know, you're going to have
Speaker 1: three or four hundred pounds of meat to pack out,
Speaker 1: which maybe on a giant, like the biggest bull in
Speaker 1: the world, I don't know. You have to look at
Speaker 1: like what a big shyris moose, you know, ways here
Speaker 1: in the lower forty eight. You know, you get too much,
Speaker 1: you get to inflate in the numbers too much, and
Speaker 1: you're looking at how much of moose weighs right of
Speaker 1: how much meat use is going to have on it.
Speaker 1: But honestly, I think it's very doable. Like let's say
Speaker 1: you have that sixty five pounds behind quarter. You cut
Speaker 1: out all the bones. You've probably dropped what would you say,
Speaker 1: fifteen pounds a bone out of that thing?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, easy, easy, yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So so you subtract that out. Now you're getting
Speaker 1: down into a party manageable load. And like you said,
Speaker 1: you know, you've packed out a lot of two quarters
Speaker 1: at once. I've done that too, and it's it's a lot,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of weight. But this isn't like a
Speaker 1: This isn't a race like a speed race. This is
Speaker 1: a marathon. You to you have to finish this race.
Speaker 1: I always tell people, you got to finish this race.
Speaker 1: So don't try to overdo it. You know, have your temper,
Speaker 1: your expectations, like, Okay, what can I carry comfortably where
Speaker 1: I can go out? Make another trip back, go out,
Speaker 1: make another trip back, go out. You know, maybe that's
Speaker 1: forty fifty pounds a load, you know, and during your
Speaker 1: training sessions you've been carrying a forty or fifty pound
Speaker 1: load out in the summertime, and it's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can do that. You know, it's heavy or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's a lot when I'm when I get on this
Speaker 1: deep stuff, but I can do that, and you're not
Speaker 1: going to kill yourself. I think some people kind of
Speaker 1: get they try to do too much. Maybe the first
Speaker 1: trip they're like, oh, I'm gonna really I don't want
Speaker 1: to have to pack too many too many loads here,
Speaker 1: and maybe they kind of fizzle out on that first
Speaker 1: load and trip and then it becomes a really bad experience.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I fully agree, you know. I mean the other
Speaker 2: thing it can be too, as you will understand Durky,
Speaker 2: it can be a safety issue too. You know, you're
Speaker 2: back in there a long ways and if you trip
Speaker 2: and fall and you know you're stepping over lowdowns and
Speaker 2: whatever and get into the trail of you know, it
Speaker 2: takes you down to where the trail head is or
Speaker 2: where you're hunting at. You know. I definitely like to
Speaker 2: use trek and poles. I never did when I was younger.
Speaker 2: Once in a while I pick up a walk and stick,
Speaker 2: but I felt like I didn't need it because I
Speaker 2: could just power through it. But with age, I use
Speaker 2: trek and poles every time because on Steve faces you
Speaker 2: get wet, slippery snow. You know, anything like that, you
Speaker 2: know it's going to help. And the trucking polls that
Speaker 2: actually help take some weight off your lower body, you know.
Speaker 2: And then the other thing that helps nowadays too is
Speaker 2: that these new backpacks carry so much better than those
Speaker 2: old freighter frame style ones that you know, you talk
Speaker 2: about digging into your shoulders, those things will kill you
Speaker 2: and digging into your hips. But there's so many good
Speaker 2: backpacks on the market now, and it's it's a matter
Speaker 2: of just finding one that fits you right and fits
Speaker 2: your budget. Even if you buy it used, you don't
Speaker 2: have to buy news a lot of good stuff out
Speaker 2: there on eBay or you know, Facebook, marketplace wherever. You
Speaker 2: know you'll find that those are going to help you
Speaker 2: out play a bit toobes. You know.
Speaker 1: I feel like we should have some bonus material here
Speaker 1: instead of just talking about fitness and stuff. I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of people are really like to talk about that,
Speaker 1: but like to talk about elk hunting. So tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about guiding guiden elk hunters. What are
Speaker 1: some things that you can give our listeners maybe that
Speaker 1: who've never hunted elk before, maybe they've they've wanted to
Speaker 1: do a di I Y or maybe they've wanted to
Speaker 1: do a guided hunt. What are some things that they
Speaker 1: can they can do or maybe some expectations that they're
Speaker 1: going to have when they come to the tel camp
Speaker 1: that maybe they didn't realize before before they've ever experienced
Speaker 1: el cutting.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, sure. One of the biggest things that you know,
Speaker 2: although we say we're going to talk about elk hunting,
Speaker 2: fitness comes right into that. Yeah, you're if you're not
Speaker 2: in shape, and I'm not again, you know, you made
Speaker 2: the right point, Dirk. You don't have to be a
Speaker 2: world class athlete to do this. I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: at all. But there's no doubt about it that the
Speaker 2: better shape you go in, the better time you're going
Speaker 2: to have, the more you're going to enjoy your hunt,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna be able to hunt harder. And I
Speaker 2: don't care if that's a you know, do it yourself
Speaker 2: or a guided hunter or a drop camp. You know,
Speaker 2: you pick it, you go up there and you get
Speaker 2: up at ten thousand feet. You know in Colorado sometimes
Speaker 2: I'm hunting higher. I'm mounting up eleven thousand feet, maybe
Speaker 2: even a little above. It definitely plays a role. So
Speaker 2: coming to shape is definitely a key aspect. I would
Speaker 2: say that. You know, of course, a guide hunt is
Speaker 2: going to cost you a lot more money, but you
Speaker 2: know you need to be you know, do your homework
Speaker 2: on what outfit or you go to. But you know,
Speaker 2: if you haven't done it before, you haven't hunter mustards
Speaker 2: where all you've ever hunted is white tails. You really
Speaker 2: you might want to give a guy to hunt some
Speaker 2: serious thought because it's way different and hunting white tails.
Speaker 2: You know, in other parts of the country. You know
Speaker 2: we're hunting on the move all the time. If you
Speaker 2: talk about archery, you know you can cover six, eight
Speaker 2: ten miles a day is nothing, and you know it
Speaker 2: doesn't require some knowledge about how to hunt these animals,
Speaker 2: how to call to them, and when to call to them.
Speaker 2: So there's there's more to it than meets the eye.
Speaker 2: Rifle hunts, certainly, if you go second or third rifle
Speaker 2: and you're doing it, do it yourself. You know you're
Speaker 2: going to get out there and try to find animals
Speaker 2: and then find a place where they're crossing and get
Speaker 2: a place where you can see and shoot and glass.
Speaker 2: And you know you certainly can have success that way.
Speaker 2: But still, you know, it's it's not easy. I mean,
Speaker 2: you look at the success rates across these states and
Speaker 2: it's definitely a challenge, you know. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: you're in Colorado, the average going rate is about a
Speaker 2: twenty percent success rate. If you talk archery, it's like
Speaker 2: ten percent. So it's tough. There is there is a learning.
Speaker 2: But the thing I'll tell you is, once you do it,
Speaker 2: I don't care if you do do it yourself. You
Speaker 2: do a guide you're going to because you don't want
Speaker 2: to come again, because it's an experience like no other,
Speaker 2: and it's just a lot of fun to be out
Speaker 2: there in the open and see these animals.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's uh, maybe that's your why and why
Speaker 1: to get ape or stay in shape. Is is that
Speaker 1: your motivation? Elk cutting? Like once you once you taste
Speaker 1: that that elk hunting for the first time, you're like,
Speaker 1: like you said, they're hooked and right now now it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get in better shape. I'm gonna stay stay
Speaker 1: in better shape. So here's one. Let's say, let's do calling.
Speaker 1: So you do a lot of archery elk hunting, whether
Speaker 1: whether whether it's you and your son or with clients.
Speaker 1: When you guys are calling in bulls, do you do
Speaker 1: you guys separate? So your collar shooter scenario and how
Speaker 1: far in between the collar and the shooter do you
Speaker 1: guys normally set up?
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of that can depend on the
Speaker 2: terrain and where we run into them, as you know,
Speaker 2: but all things being equal, you know, I like to
Speaker 2: be I like to be sixty seventy yards behind my shooters,
Speaker 2: you know, simply because I don't want to be if
Speaker 2: I can help it, I don't want to be pinned dot.
Speaker 2: I want to be able to move elk. Don't stay
Speaker 2: in one spot. I'm snapping limbs. I've even walked in
Speaker 2: water before. Try to sound like animals. So I like
Speaker 2: to be able to move around. I'll go from one
Speaker 2: spot to the other, use different cow calls. Maybe I'll,
Speaker 2: you know, if I got a bullet's hung up, I might,
Speaker 2: you know, even back off and do a long distance
Speaker 2: you know, do a location bugle at first, and then
Speaker 2: move back up, wait a while, do some do some
Speaker 2: some estrous cow calls, and when he answers me back,
Speaker 2: I'll scream over top of him, and I'll tell you
Speaker 2: more than once I've had him come charging in those circumstances,
Speaker 2: you know, particularly if they have n't been over hunting,
Speaker 2: which you know, honest, that is getting harder to do
Speaker 2: here in Colorado. But I did have some fun this
Speaker 2: past fall with that kind of stuff because I hunted
Speaker 2: in one of the units where it's very tough to draw,
Speaker 2: and those elk weren't near as educated. It was like
Speaker 2: the good old days, So I had one with that.
Speaker 2: But now I definitely like some distance. But sometimes you
Speaker 2: can't help it. Sometimes you get up there and you
Speaker 2: let a call, and I tell my hunters all the time,
Speaker 2: you know that you have to be mentally ready one
Speaker 2: hundred percent of the time, because you can be going
Speaker 2: along and not hear anything, and all of a sudden
Speaker 2: you just let out a simple faint cow call, and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, here's this bull that's inside forty
Speaker 2: or fifty yards in the timber, and he's screaming at you.
Speaker 2: And you got to be able to ready to pick
Speaker 2: a set up and go with it.
Speaker 1: So have you seen much buck fever kind of overtake hunters,
Speaker 1: You know when when a bull starts coming in and
Speaker 1: they just watch them walk by instead of drawing their bone.
Speaker 2: I have, and I talk about that, you know, I say,
Speaker 2: once you know that it's an animal that you want
Speaker 2: to take, you need to be thinking about where you're
Speaker 2: gonna shoot them in terms of the opening. You know,
Speaker 2: you need to be thinking about the distance where you're
Speaker 2: gonna hold on that animal, and you want to be
Speaker 2: focused on the spot you know you're aiming at that animal,
Speaker 2: and don't be looking at his horns, don't be thinking
Speaker 2: about how he's going to look over the mantle to
Speaker 2: your fireplace, because those are all recipes for a miss
Speaker 2: or maybe to not even get the shot off, you know.
Speaker 2: So there's a mental checklist that guys really need to
Speaker 2: go through to prepare for those moments where you think about,
Speaker 2: you know, shooting openings, distance, where's going to be your
Speaker 2: draw points, if your arm when that bull steps behind
Speaker 2: that tree, it would be an opportunity for me to draw.
Speaker 2: Getting yourself turned in the right direction before they get
Speaker 2: too close. All those kinds of factors you need to
Speaker 2: be thinking about in advance, And I really encourage guys
Speaker 2: to think about that before they even come on their hunt,
Speaker 2: and think about it when they're out there in the
Speaker 2: field practicing, because what happens is when you get in
Speaker 2: the spur of the moment that bull is screaming, you know,
Speaker 2: and there's steam coming out of his nose. You know,
Speaker 2: if you're fortunate enough to run into those, you know,
Speaker 2: your heart's going to be pounding out of your chest
Speaker 2: and you want to be able to just where it's
Speaker 2: muscle memory and you're not having to think through that
Speaker 2: stuff because you may not even get the shot off,
Speaker 2: and lord knows, they don't give you much time. It's
Speaker 2: it's seconds, it's it's not a long time in most circumstances,
Speaker 2: particularly in calling situations.
Speaker 1: I think that visualizing is very key in your visualizing
Speaker 1: success right, and you're visualizing big. I always tell any
Speaker 1: of my friends that we're hunting together, especially if they're
Speaker 1: pretty new at hunting, I tell them, don't just think
Speaker 1: this is going to be some raghorn bull that's coming in,
Speaker 1: maybe has a wi wimpy bugle or whatever. But I've
Speaker 1: I've always kind of like, try to temper my expectations.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a big one. This
Speaker 1: is going to be a really big bull. How am
Speaker 1: I going to keep my crap together? Like, okay, I'm
Speaker 1: going to focus on all the things you just said.
Speaker 1: That's the same things I focus on.
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: When where? Where is that bowl going to walk out?
Speaker 1: Where am I going to draw my bow? Where am
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to pick a spot, you know, and
Speaker 1: my whole before I draw my bow? Am I hold
Speaker 1: my bow? Ride?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: We've got to make sure my hand placements right on
Speaker 1: the bow, I pull it back level by level my bubble,
Speaker 1: you know, make sure my strings on my nose at
Speaker 1: my anchor point. I'm looking through my peep site, making
Speaker 1: sure the peep site and the the site housing are centered,
Speaker 1: and then finding finding the target. How far was he?
Speaker 1: Because I already arranged everything, okay. Put the pin on there, okay,
Speaker 1: and then don't just hammer the trigger. You know, I'd
Speaker 1: make a make a good controlled shot. See it sounds
Speaker 1: like a lot and when it when it works, it
Speaker 1: seems like man, that was easy. And when it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: you feel like I'm never going to kill an elk.
Speaker 1: One thing I see on folks who uh, because I
Speaker 1: watch a lot of YouTube videos. I love elk hunting.
Speaker 1: I like to watch a lot of other people's hunts.
Speaker 1: And one thing I see a lot of folks do
Speaker 1: is they draw their bow way too early. And I'll
Speaker 1: be watching the video, I'm like, like the first appearance
Speaker 1: of the bowl, like and he's a ways out. Many
Speaker 1: rip that bow back and I'm like, no, don't do that.
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting you said that because you touched
Speaker 2: on two things there. And I preach this to clients
Speaker 2: all the time. I preach it to my son. You
Speaker 2: know that YouTube is such a great tool for so
Speaker 2: many things in life, but with elk hunting in particular,
Speaker 2: watching guys like you, Jason, you know, Jermaine Hodge, you know,
Speaker 2: and these YouTube videos where guys hunting elk, watching how
Speaker 2: they handle setups and shooting information, you know, the born
Speaker 2: and raised guys. You can learn so much about when
Speaker 2: to move you know there and really visualize their thought
Speaker 2: process as to when they draw, when they shoot, you know,
Speaker 2: when they don't shoot. There's so much to be learned
Speaker 2: just by watching those videos. It's entertaining to watch them
Speaker 2: because you want to see somebody kill a big bull.
Speaker 2: But there's a heck of a lot to be learned
Speaker 2: just by watching how other people react to those situations.
Speaker 1: Yes, whenever I first started el cunting, I didn't. My
Speaker 1: dad he didn't archery ill cunt. He he was against.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh them damn bow hunters. That was his.
Speaker 1: That was his take on bow hunting, right, And I
Speaker 1: was like, I was telling him. I'm like, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: going to shoot a bull elk with a bow. And
Speaker 1: he's like, you can't. You can't do that. That's like
Speaker 1: such themost unattainable thing. But then I watched these videos
Speaker 1: and these guys did it, you know. But and I
Speaker 1: watched these videos over and over and over. Back then
Speaker 1: it was these old VHS videos and they're so terrible quality.
Speaker 1: But what I what one of the big takeaways was
Speaker 1: I I watched was elk behavior as bulls came into
Speaker 1: the setup, body language, demeanor, their eyes, those kind of things.
Speaker 1: Once you start, once you've been in that red zone
Speaker 1: enough or you've watched enough videos to watch what bulls
Speaker 1: are going to do and how they how they how
Speaker 1: they act. Are they coming in alert, are they coming
Speaker 1: in mad, like they have their head down, they're they're
Speaker 1: not really alert for like, they're not looking for danger.
Speaker 1: They're they're coming in to fight. You know what is
Speaker 1: that bull's demeanor? And I'm when I have a bull
Speaker 1: coming in that that's going to dictate when I'm going
Speaker 1: to draw my bow. Right typically draw mine at the
Speaker 1: last possible second. I I look at the where I
Speaker 1: see the bull coming the very first glimpse I see
Speaker 1: him coming, and I'm trying to figure out his path
Speaker 1: to where. Okay, he's heading towards an opening. At what
Speaker 1: point do I need to draw my bow to where
Speaker 1: I don't have to hold it for two minutes. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to pull it back. He's going to walk
Speaker 1: into the opening and then I'm going to stop him
Speaker 1: and shoot him and stopping him too, you know. I
Speaker 1: that's a that's a really big thing, is getting that
Speaker 1: bull stopped. You don't want to shoot that bull when
Speaker 1: he's walking. You want to you want to get him
Speaker 1: stopped that way because when a bolt, if he's walking
Speaker 1: and he's and he's taking a step, and if you're
Speaker 1: not following through with your swing on your on your shot,
Speaker 1: shoot you can shoot six eight ten inches back further
Speaker 1: than you really wanted to, just because the amount of
Speaker 1: movement in a bull elk step and you could go
Speaker 1: from a good hit to a gut shot real easy.
Speaker 1: So and it's hard sometimes, you know, sometimes people get caught.
Speaker 1: I've even got caught with my pants down. Don't even
Speaker 1: have a call in my mouth. Let's say I was
Speaker 1: I wasn't the shoot, I wasn't the caller, right, But
Speaker 1: any kind of a simple noise, you know, you can
Speaker 1: do like the white tail guys do go or make
Speaker 1: a little noise like that, or a or a little
Speaker 1: like a bark or even you know, just something to
Speaker 1: get their attention to stop them. There's times I've had bulls.
Speaker 1: I had a heck of a time getting them to stop,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd made a couple of cow calls and
Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't stop at all, and finally had
Speaker 1: to bark at them or say, hey, get their tenent.
Speaker 1: There was on such a mission. But body demeanor, you know.
Speaker 1: There again, if you're washing the body demeanor, it's kind
Speaker 1: of gonna tell you how much how much of a
Speaker 1: noise you have to make.
Speaker 2: Right, you know. And the other thing we didn't talk
Speaker 2: about as a release to the calling. Is that because
Speaker 2: we see this more times than not now in Colorado,
Speaker 2: they'll bugle at you from a distance. But if they're
Speaker 2: coming in and they're going to come in with a
Speaker 2: shooting range, a lot of times it takes time and
Speaker 2: they come in silent. You may not even you may
Speaker 2: not even hear him come in. It's like all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, you see this antler coming from behind a
Speaker 2: tree from nowhere. You say, how did he get here
Speaker 2: without me hearing them or seeing him? You know, it's
Speaker 2: just they're like ghosts. So being mentally prepared is so important.
Speaker 2: You know, when you're out there, you always got to
Speaker 2: think that will could step into the picture at any moment.
Speaker 2: I need to be ready.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well when you're hunting with buddies too, you know
Speaker 1: everybody's they I want to be, you know, whoever's shooting.
Speaker 1: I want to be the shooter out on point right.
Speaker 1: I want to be the first guy that's set up
Speaker 1: to where that if that bull comes in on a
Speaker 1: textbook scenario, he's going to come to me first, right right.
Speaker 1: But I think some of that, you know, especially if
Speaker 1: the bulls have been pressured to bed or they're a
Speaker 1: little tight lipped being the second shooter maybe down wind
Speaker 1: aways from the first shooter being down wind fifty yards,
Speaker 1: you know, on an alternate route, that might be the
Speaker 1: that might be the way to go. Or I don't
Speaker 1: even mind having a second shooter stand right next to
Speaker 1: me as the caller, because especially if you're hunting thick country.
Speaker 1: I've I don't know how many times I've had the
Speaker 1: ball make it back past the number one shooter up
Speaker 1: front and make it all the way to me as
Speaker 1: the caller, And a lot of times I don't even
Speaker 1: have my bow with me right as the caller, I
Speaker 1: don't have a bow, and the bull walks back to
Speaker 1: me and stands around, look's around.
Speaker 2: Dang it.
Speaker 1: If I'd had another shooter here, or if I'd had
Speaker 1: my bow, I could have smoked that thing. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the setups are so incredibly important. I feel like a
Speaker 1: lot of folks have a lot of really good luck
Speaker 1: colling elk up to a certain point and they're set.
Speaker 1: If they're set up, isn't isn't dialed. That's where everything
Speaker 1: just kind of falls apart, And it falls apart from
Speaker 1: me too, you know. It's not like I'm some perfect,
Speaker 1: perfect expert or something. It falls apart for me as well.
Speaker 2: But you know, guys get nervous when they don't see
Speaker 2: when they've hurt him, and they don't see him and
Speaker 2: they end up moving, and that kills more setup scenarios
Speaker 2: I think than any one thing. Is guy's moving in.
Speaker 1: The wrong time, you know, yeah, yeah, go stand up there,
Speaker 1: you stand right there, Let me do the calls. I'll
Speaker 1: do I'll work the bowl, get him across, and then
Speaker 1: nothing happens for a long time, and the shooter moves right.
Speaker 1: But the whole time you're painting a picture as a caller,
Speaker 1: you know, to where this bowl thinks, Okay, this is
Speaker 1: what's going on, and it's going to drag him through
Speaker 1: a certain spot. And maybe if if that, if that
Speaker 1: shooter moves it and really makes it, makes it tough
Speaker 1: or you know, like you say, if they haven't been
Speaker 1: the ball hasn't been calling a lot. If he's up there,
Speaker 1: you know, the shooters up there scratching his head and
Speaker 1: kicking dirt, you know, not paying attention and moving around
Speaker 1: a lot, they can get picked off super easy.
Speaker 2: Yep, exactly.
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to do those standing in one place,
Speaker 1: especially if you're on Steve.
Speaker 2: Pretty soon your ankle, the positions were so darn uncomfortably say,
Speaker 2: just hoping you'll be able to move soon. But you
Speaker 2: got to, you got to, you got to got it out,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've set there for it feels like an hour,
Speaker 1: you know, but it hasn't been an hour. But man,
Speaker 1: my feet will be completely numb because I'm standing at
Speaker 1: a weird angle on a hillside, and and I know
Speaker 1: if I move, I'm gonna be nailed it. Just I
Speaker 1: gotta wait just a little longer. It's that self discipline,
Speaker 1: you know. It's like, man, this sucks right now, but
Speaker 1: here in ten minutes, it's not gonna matter anymore, right
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna either shoot this bowl or we're gonna
Speaker 1: be on the chase again.
Speaker 2: Yeap, no doubt.
Speaker 1: Well, Bob, this has been great having you on here.
Speaker 1: I've always said when I grow up, I want to
Speaker 1: be like Bob Twilliger. You're my hero, and I appreciate
Speaker 1: you coming on here, sharing, sharing your insight and your
Speaker 1: wisdom from all the years of just doing it out there.
Speaker 1: So where can people find you on social media? Are
Speaker 1: you on social and much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am. I'm an active user on Instagram Bob
Speaker 2: T seven fifty six. I'm also on Facebook as Bob
Speaker 2: Twilger and certainly any questions you have, glad to help,
Speaker 2: particular you aging guys. I've got a lot of experience
Speaker 2: with it and I feel that I can offer you
Speaker 2: some some tips. You know, there's a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of the young exercise stuff, you know, particularly
Speaker 2: the group orient and stuff like the CrossFit stuff. You know,
Speaker 2: you need to keep in mind that that's a lot
Speaker 2: of that stuff is aimed at younger bodies, and our
Speaker 2: soldier guys need to we need to find other ways
Speaker 2: to keep in shape, but do it in a way
Speaker 2: that doesn't break us down or get us injured, because
Speaker 2: you know, once you get injured, the held back can
Speaker 2: be steeper or climbed. So certainly feel free to use
Speaker 2: me a resource. I'm here for you.
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, Well, thanks again, Happy New Year, and I
Speaker 1: look forward to Senior Adventures in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Likewise, Derek and thank you guys for all your help.
Speaker 2: Really appreciate it. It's good talking with