1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

2
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

3
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119
Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

4
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520
Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

5
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,760
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

6
00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,320
Speaker 2: The focus of today is going to be President Trump's

7
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 2: impending visit to the Federal Reserve to tour some recent

8
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,560
Speaker 2: renovations to their headquarters here in downtown Washington, and administration

9
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,199
Speaker 2: officials are really latching onto this idea, these allegations that

10
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 2: Jerome Powell misled Congress in testimony about this renovation project.

11
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,920
Speaker 2: The FED says that he has only been truthful in

12
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,400
Speaker 2: his testimony, and we actually want to bring you part

13
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,879
Speaker 2: of what he did tell lawmakers back in June.

14
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 3: There's no VPI dining room. There's no new marble. We

15
00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 3: took down the old marble, well putting it back up.

16
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,480
Speaker 3: We'll have to use new marble where some of the

17
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,959
Speaker 3: old marble broke. But there's no new they're no special elevators.

18
00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 3: They're just they're old elevators that have been there. They

19
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,759
Speaker 3: are no new water features. There's no beehives, and there's

20
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 3: no and there's no roofed terrace gardens other than that,

21
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,920
Speaker 3: you know, so all of the sort of inflammatory things

22
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,199
Speaker 3: that the media charricter are either not in the current

23
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,360
Speaker 3: plan or just inaccurate. So but notwithstanding that, the cost

24
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,319
Speaker 3: overruns are what they are, I.

25
00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,640
Speaker 4: Was personally curious to see the water feature. It is

26
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,399
Speaker 4: basically a construction site over at the Eccles Building, not

27
00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 4: that far from the White House, around the corner on

28
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 4: Constitution Avenue. If you've showed up there right now, as

29
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,759
Speaker 4: the President will a short time from now, you'd see

30
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,080
Speaker 4: a lot of cranes and orange barrels in the like.

31
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 4: There's quite a bit going on there, and it's not

32
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 4: a great looking place. This is a two and a

33
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 4: half billion dollar renovation project, a deep upgrading of the

34
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 4: guts of the in fact two buildings that make up

35
00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 4: the headquarters there. And I want to get into this

36
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 4: tyler with Kate Davidson, who helps to cover the FED

37
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 4: for US here it leads our coverage as managing editor

38
00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 4: for US Economic Policy, and has spent a bit of

39
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,120
Speaker 4: time in this building and knows the people who work there. Kate,

40
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,880
Speaker 4: it's great to see you thanks for joining us as always.

41
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 4: Here the building named for Mariner Eccles, who served as

42
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 4: Chair of the FED nineteen thirty four to forty eight.

43
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 4: This building has been sitting over there since the nineteen thirties,

44
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,239
Speaker 4: and it was the pride of the FED to hire

45
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,280
Speaker 4: a well known French architect to build this structure and

46
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,320
Speaker 4: some pretty famous decorators to make this a nice place.

47
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 4: What are we talking about here with all of these renovations.

48
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 4: Is any of what we're hearing from the administration true?

49
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,160
Speaker 5: Well, it's a little.

50
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 6: Bit hard for us to know if any of it

51
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 6: is true, right, I mean, I think that it is

52
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 6: worth noting that Chaired J. Powell did request that the

53
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 6: Fed's Inspector General do its own internal review of exactly

54
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,280
Speaker 6: what went on with the building project. This is something

55
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 6: that has been in the works for several years. It's

56
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 6: something that you know, you know, the President likes to

57
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,119
Speaker 6: talk about J. Powell, but the entire Board of Governors

58
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 6: approved this massive overhaul. I think one of the things

59
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 6: that the FED has been trying to talk about and

60
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,679
Speaker 6: reiterate is that this particular building really the two main

61
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,079
Speaker 6: buildings that that the FED where the FED houses its

62
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 6: economists and staff and Washington, they really haven't gotten hadn't

63
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,240
Speaker 6: gotten a substantial overhaul since they had been built, this one,

64
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 6: in particular, the Eccles building. Powell is quick to remind

65
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 6: people never had a big top to bottom renovation, so

66
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,680
Speaker 6: there was a lot of asbestos removal and things like that,

67
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,960
Speaker 6: just bringing the building up to code. I think one

68
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 6: of the points he made, and I think we heard

69
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,440
Speaker 6: him refer to it the elevator. There's, you know, claims

70
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,840
Speaker 6: of a VIP elevator, and he'd said that was actually

71
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,000
Speaker 6: to accommodate disabled users of the elevator. And so I

72
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 6: think there are a lot of things like that where

73
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 6: perhaps on paper they might raise some questions and some

74
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,680
Speaker 6: concerns what is the point of this, what's the justification here?

75
00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 6: And the FED is starting to share more information about

76
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 6: that on this project that, as I said, has been

77
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:02,760
Speaker 6: going on for several years now.

78
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit more about the backdrop

79
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,480
Speaker 2: that this pressure from the administration is coming from, because

80
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 2: we have heard some other criticism when it comes to

81
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 2: Jerome Powell. What sort of led us to this point.

82
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,440
Speaker 2: I'm also really fascinated to hear your view on the

83
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,080
Speaker 2: head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, Bill Poulty, who

84
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 2: seems to be taking a lead when it comes to

85
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,160
Speaker 2: the renovations, and we know he's going to be on

86
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 2: the tour today.

87
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think we can't overstate just how

88
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 6: unusual all of this is. Right the head of the FHFA,

89
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 6: I mean, that is a very big important job overseeing,

90
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 6: you know, mortgage markets and Fanny May and Freddie mac

91
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 6: but director of Poulty seems very preoccupied, very focused on

92
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 6: what Jay Powell is doing at the FED, and of

93
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 6: course that matters to mortgage markets. He had talked a

94
00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,600
Speaker 6: lot previously before talking about the building, talked a lot

95
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,920
Speaker 6: about rates being high and how that was harmful to

96
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,120
Speaker 6: homeowners and Americans can't get a mortgage and it's Jay

97
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,600
Speaker 6: Powell's fault, was was the argument. But all of a

98
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,000
Speaker 6: sudden us he started talking a lot more about the renovation.

99
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,559
Speaker 6: We heard though even a couple months back. Elon Musk

100
00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,080
Speaker 6: had mentioned it in an interview in the Oval office.

101
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,320
Speaker 6: Kind of stemmed from a little noticed report that a

102
00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,839
Speaker 6: former FED economists actually have put out through the Mercadas Center,

103
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,599
Speaker 6: former advisor there looking at these costs and the cost

104
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,560
Speaker 6: overruns and the fact that it was a potential political

105
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,839
Speaker 6: liability for them, and as we're seeing, I think it

106
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 6: has become one, because right, it's not just about what's

107
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 6: going on with this renovation. It is paired with this

108
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 6: criticism at the same time that that the Fed is

109
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 6: not lowering rates and the President really really would like

110
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,960
Speaker 6: them to be. So you know, you could look at this,

111
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,200
Speaker 6: is this ay just them piling on it? Certainly it

112
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:44,160
Speaker 6: certainly seems that way.

113
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 4: Can I just to be clear, though, whose money is this?

114
00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 6: Well, it's a really good question.

115
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 4: The renovation.

116
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, the FED is essentially self funded. They they have

117
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 6: you know, fees that they collect from banks their money.

118
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,719
Speaker 6: Though their appropriations are not approved by Congress, like most

119
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,120
Speaker 6: federal agencies, they were set up in that way by

120
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,719
Speaker 6: design to be independent from that process, in part because

121
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,440
Speaker 6: Congress decided many many years ago that they wanted the

122
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,480
Speaker 6: FED to not be to be somewhat walled off from

123
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,520
Speaker 6: political influence, right to make the decisions for the economy

124
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,120
Speaker 6: that are that are in the in the best long

125
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 6: term interest in the economy, not short term. So they

126
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,160
Speaker 6: have this money, They have a huge portfolio of assets,

127
00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,159
Speaker 6: you know, all the bonds that they have bought through

128
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 6: various rounds of QI to support the economy. Those bonds

129
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,400
Speaker 6: earn interest, They earn interest on the balance sheet, and

130
00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,320
Speaker 6: they cover their operating costs, which could include renovations, include

131
00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,239
Speaker 6: paying staff. Whatever is left over in earnings, they send

132
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,600
Speaker 6: that to the treasury. But with rates being so high

133
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,400
Speaker 6: the past few years, they're not sending any money to

134
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 6: treasury anymore, so that might be also a little bit

135
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,679
Speaker 6: of a frustration to officials in the government.

136
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,719
Speaker 2: Really fascinating. That's a lot, Bloomberg's, and you're on top

137
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,719
Speaker 2: of all of it. Bloomberg's. Kate Davidson, our managing editor

138
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,599
Speaker 2: for US Economic Policy, thank you so much for being

139
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,640
Speaker 2: here and for more. We want to bring in our

140
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,880
Speaker 2: political panel that includes Rick Davis, partner at Stone Court

141
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 2: Capital and a Bloomberg Politics contributor, as well as Adam Hodge,

142
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 2: managing director at Bully Pulpit International and a democratic strategist. Rick,

143
00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,000
Speaker 2: I want to start with you, and I want to

144
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,160
Speaker 2: just talk broadly about the optics here. There's this big

145
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 2: tour at the Federal Reserve. We've heard the administration ramping

146
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,960
Speaker 2: up the criticism leading up to this. What should we

147
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,080
Speaker 2: be expecting from the administration when they arrived today that

148
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 2: would help advance their argument when it comes to the

149
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 2: pressure against your own Powell, Yeah, I think.

150
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 7: You got to just think of this as sort of

151
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 7: today's event in a long running, you know, sort of

152
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 7: attack campaign on pal specifically and the Fed in general.

153
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 7: You know, we've heard it from so many different people

154
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 7: within the administration. Donald Trump obviously first amongst anybody leading

155
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:56,200
Speaker 7: the charge on Palace relates to interest rates. But now

156
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 7: you know, obviously we have some controversy around the building.

157
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 7: I've been in the Eccles building. It's over one hundred

158
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,720
Speaker 7: years old. It's never been renovated until today. When I

159
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 7: was in it, there was no renovation. You were a

160
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 7: little embarrassed as a beautiful, stately building. But like the

161
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,400
Speaker 7: Federal Reserve is in a building that was over one

162
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,720
Speaker 7: hundred years old that had never been fixed up. That

163
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,400
Speaker 7: seems like a real incongruity. That being said, no excuse

164
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 7: for overruns, and at some point you got to think

165
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 7: of it as taxpayer dollars, regardless of who's actually writing

166
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 7: the check. And so I think that this is a

167
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,680
Speaker 7: fair criticism, and I think Donald Trump has just taken

168
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,680
Speaker 7: advantage of it. He is good at optics, and that's

169
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,200
Speaker 7: what today is all about. It's all about the optics.

170
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,560
Speaker 4: Rick, I don't know if you were with President George W.

171
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 4: Bush when he went to visit the Federal Reserve building.

172
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,439
Speaker 4: That was in two thousand and six. That's the last

173
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,600
Speaker 4: time a president of the United States made the track

174
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,199
Speaker 4: over to the headquarters. And Adam, that means that Donald

175
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 4: Trump becomes only the fourth. That's how rare an occasion

176
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,640
Speaker 4: like this is what is it exactly that he plans

177
00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,560
Speaker 4: to do there? We don't know that Jay Powell is

178
00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,439
Speaker 4: even going to meet him. Is this anything more than optics, No.

179
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,880
Speaker 8: It's it's clearly the optics. I think there's no question

180
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,760
Speaker 8: that he is just trying to own the moment. And Trump,

181
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,360
Speaker 8: let's not forget as a building guy, right like, he's

182
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 8: going to be right in as this is what he

183
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 8: loves more than.

184
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:19,560
Speaker 4: Anything, expect the rebark.

185
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, I can't help but take a step back and think.

186
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,720
Speaker 8: Trump is also spending a lot of taxpayer dollars to

187
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,600
Speaker 8: turn over the Rose Garden and make it more like

188
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,920
Speaker 8: Marl Lago. He's done a lot of renovations in the

189
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,640
Speaker 8: White House, putting a lot of gold everywhere, so he's.

190
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 4: Done a bit of this himself, quite a bit.

191
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,440
Speaker 8: But I think the reason why this story actually matters

192
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,320
Speaker 8: is to where Rick was getting at. It undermines the

193
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,720
Speaker 8: credibility of the Fed chairman if the President is broad

194
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 8: beating him, and I think it really potential underminds whoever

195
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 8: Powell's successor is in twenty twenty six. Trump has been

196
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,400
Speaker 8: clear he's intense to point someone else, and you got

197
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,840
Speaker 8: to wonder if he's just going to walk over every

198
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 8: time he disagrees with the right decision to pressure him

199
00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:58,800
Speaker 8: into making a different decision.

200
00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 4: That's why this matters well.

201
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,880
Speaker 2: Actually, to build off of this, the Treasury Secretary Scott

202
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,440
Speaker 2: Besstt was on Bloomberg Surveillance earlier this week and was

203
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,040
Speaker 2: asked about President Trump's intention since he does say that

204
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,080
Speaker 2: he's going to let him serve out his turn through

205
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,080
Speaker 2: May of twenty twenty six, and we want to play

206
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,200
Speaker 2: you both a little part of his answer and get

207
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 2: your reaction.

208
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,680
Speaker 9: On the other side, the President said he is not

209
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 9: going to fire Chair Powell. It would do Chair Powell

210
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 9: a favor, and he would be doing the Institution of

211
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:36,760
Speaker 9: favor if he did an internal review, This mission creep

212
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:42,120
Speaker 9: from the FED is endangering their independence of monetary policy.

213
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,200
Speaker 2: To Adam's point before Rick, when it does come to

214
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,199
Speaker 2: perhaps threading the needle, or how do Republicans in the

215
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,160
Speaker 2: administration thread the needle here when it comes to a

216
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,200
Speaker 2: potential replacement for Jerome Powell if we know that some

217
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,080
Speaker 2: of the candidates that they're looking for would potentially come

218
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,960
Speaker 2: from within the administry, Yeah, look.

219
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,960
Speaker 7: I think that that's going to happen no matter what

220
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,839
Speaker 7: by May. And so the real question is in the

221
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 7: ramp up to the replacement of Pal under normal order,

222
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,640
Speaker 7: you know what, what how much more heat can can

223
00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,400
Speaker 7: the president really pile on?

224
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:19,679
Speaker 8: And even though the.

225
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:25,640
Speaker 7: Treasury Secretary was less argumentative about replacing Pal, Howard Luttnik

226
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,280
Speaker 7: came out the same day basically and said he ought

227
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 7: to be replaced or he ought to resign. So, like

228
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 7: the administration is all over the map on the speculations

229
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,040
Speaker 7: around Chairman Powell, and I would say, what's what's interesting

230
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 7: is that Clip echoes more the traditional Republican sentiment about

231
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,440
Speaker 7: mission creep with the Federal Reserve, especially as it relates

232
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 7: to DEI, as it relates to climate UH issues that

233
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 7: the Federal Reserve has dealt with that, Republicans felt weren't

234
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,840
Speaker 7: in their mandate. So we're we're sort of like, you know,

235
00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 7: recreating the last decade of debate around the FED and

236
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 7: and as a result, again more pressure you know, being

237
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:07,920
Speaker 7: put on j Pal. He's a tough guy. He can

238
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 7: handle the pressure. It doesn't really affect him and his

239
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,240
Speaker 7: decision making. It's not first time, you know, he's been

240
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,080
Speaker 7: in the cooker. And so assuming that the President is

241
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,440
Speaker 7: staying the course, you know, a lot of this is

242
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 7: just good.

243
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 4: Some are theatrics. Well, unless they find a shrine to

244
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,600
Speaker 4: the grateful dead that they're building over there, Adam, I don't.

245
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,679
Speaker 4: I just wonder what today could lead to and if

246
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 4: this might blow up in the president's face. Optically, he's

247
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 4: going to show up at a construction site. There's a

248
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 4: bunch of broken concrete over there right now. They're not

249
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,600
Speaker 4: going to find lavish offices, VIP elevators, and fish tanks.

250
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,000
Speaker 4: So how's that going to play on TV?

251
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,160
Speaker 8: I don't think it plays on TV to the broader public,

252
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 8: but to his base this is red meat that I

253
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,920
Speaker 8: think that and that's where it's important to remember who

254
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,680
Speaker 8: the audience here is you know, for Trump, for the

255
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 8: White House, it's not the markets of the place, is

256
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,640
Speaker 8: not his supporters. And so I'm old enough to it

257
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 8: was years ago. But when I worked at the US

258
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,319
Speaker 8: Treasury Department in the Obama administration, there was almost a

259
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,839
Speaker 8: church and state relationship with the FED. The FED did

260
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,319
Speaker 8: their job in monetary policy. We were responsible for fiscal policy.

261
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,400
Speaker 8: Couldn't get anyone to even we didn't know no. And

262
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,480
Speaker 8: when they talked about the dollar, we'd get all up

263
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,640
Speaker 8: in arms about it as well. Right, So that's the

264
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 8: way it works. The fact that they're putting this pressure

265
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,560
Speaker 8: on the FED, I think is really problematic, and it

266
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,200
Speaker 8: really does. But I think potentially post problems for the

267
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 8: credibility of the FED and the certainty that the market

268
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,320
Speaker 8: markets will take on FED policy in the future. That again,

269
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 8: I keep coming back to that. That's why I think

270
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,360
Speaker 8: this matters. When they make future rate decisions. Is it

271
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,320
Speaker 8: because the White House told them to or is it

272
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,080
Speaker 8: because they'd actually think it's in the best interest of

273
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 8: the American economy and the global economy. And you get

274
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,400
Speaker 8: to that weakness, that doubt that is bad news for

275
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:55,240
Speaker 8: the US economy.

276
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,880
Speaker 2: Rick, just in our last thirty seconds here, Joe brought

277
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 2: up next steps, and one of the potential next deps

278
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 2: is that the administration is pushing for Congress to actually

279
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,160
Speaker 2: investigate Powell's testimony. We played a little bit at the

280
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,240
Speaker 2: top of the show there. Bill Poulti told us on

281
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 2: Bloomberg TV last week he's confident Congress is going to investigate.

282
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 2: How much sway does Congress actually have here? Could they

283
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:17,800
Speaker 2: play a role in this going forward?

284
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,640
Speaker 7: I think it's a cog in the campaign, but it's

285
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 7: not like they're going to have much of a material impact.

286
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 7: They don't control the budget for this, so typically they

287
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,000
Speaker 7: could put hamstrings on the funding. You know, they're going

288
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,840
Speaker 7: to drag up a bunch of people from the FED,

289
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 7: from the National Capital Planning Commission, you know, folks who

290
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 7: are actively involved in the building. Look, it's it shouldn't

291
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 7: have happened, right, There's a half a billion dollars that's

292
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,480
Speaker 7: going to this. It wasn't originally budgeted. They should have

293
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 7: had a tighter control on that. But we also know

294
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 7: there's been inflation and price of construction materials has gone up,

295
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,160
Speaker 7: So how much is really going to come about all this?

296
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 7: I wouldn't hold my breath for a breakthrough scandal, especially

297
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 7: in the midst of all the rest some of the

298
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 7: things that they're investigating currently, this is not going to

299
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 7: show up much in the American public psyche.

300
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 4: We're going to find out together. Great analysis from Rick

301
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 4: Davis and Adam Hodge. Many thanks to both of you.

302
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 4: That tour is scheduled for four pm Eastern time, and

303
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 4: of course when it happens, you'll see it and hear

304
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,800
Speaker 4: about it right here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Straight

305
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 4: ahead our conversation with the Congressman from Virginia, Suja Subramanyam

306
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 4: the tenth District, as we talk about the fallout here

307
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 4: in the Epstein case. It's straight ahead on Bloomberg.

308
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

309
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,

310
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 1: Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You

311
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,600
Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship

312
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 1: New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

313
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,560
Speaker 2: I'm Tyler Kendall alongside at Joe Matthew here in Washington,

314
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,360
Speaker 2: and Joe should say it's shaping up to be a

315
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 2: busy day in Washington, but the houses already out. They're

316
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 2: heading out for recess. August.

317
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 4: A month long, can tell summer's here. All of a sudden,

318
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 4: there's no traffic when the House goes on August recess.

319
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 4: Last night was flyout night. They decided to leave early. Tyler.

320
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,080
Speaker 4: As we told you, this was coming following some Democratic

321
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,280
Speaker 4: demands to get a vote on releasing the Jeffrey Epstein files.

322
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 4: Speaker Johnson wasn't having it. Sent basically everyone home early.

323
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 2: It appeared that they were trying to avoid some controversial

324
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 2: votes here when it did come to the Epstein files,

325
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 2: hoping that perhaps this August recess could dissipate some of

326
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 2: the outcry that we saw. But of course, lawmakers are

327
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 2: in the middle of working on some really other crucial

328
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 2: pieces of work that includes funding the government, the appropriations process.

329
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 2: And we had the chance to ask Congressman Brendan Boyle

330
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 2: of this yesterday, ranking member on the Budget Committee, about

331
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 2: potentially the future here of how this could become a

332
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,240
Speaker 2: showdown come the fall. We want to play you some

333
00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 2: of that tape now.

334
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 10: There is no question that another recisions package from this

335
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 10: White House is them essentially saying we want a full

336
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,400
Speaker 10: government shutdown. Russell Voden, by the way, last week, let's

337
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,399
Speaker 10: not forget what he said. He said the problem with

338
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,880
Speaker 10: the budget process is that it's two bipartisan. So he's

339
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,439
Speaker 10: outright saying that they want a government shutdown and they

340
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 10: want a fourth one.

341
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 4: All right, Let's remind everybody Brendan Boyle is the ranking

342
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 4: member on the House Budget Committee. When Brendan Boyle says

343
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 4: one more decision, you've got a shutdown, that is meaningful.

344
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,160
Speaker 4: Remembering the government runs out of money on September thirtieth.

345
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 4: We don't have spending bills ready. There's no agreement on

346
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,119
Speaker 4: top lines. And as we started here, lawmakers are now

347
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 4: beginning to leave town. Senators will go through next week.

348
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,679
Speaker 4: It looks like working on nominations. Maybe they'll get a

349
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 4: couple spending bills in the works, but that's a far

350
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 4: cry from a deal on a budget. And that's where

351
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 4: we start our conversation with Congressman Sujas Subramanium from the

352
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,000
Speaker 4: tenth District of Virginia, that's not far from here in Washington,

353
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,640
Speaker 4: Northern Virginia, a district full of federal workers. I will

354
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 4: add in Congressman, it's great to have you with us

355
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 4: from your view on the Democratic side of the aisle.

356
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,399
Speaker 4: I want everyone to know that you're on the Oversight Committee.

357
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 4: You're also on Committee on Science, Space and Technology, and

358
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 4: I want to pick through a couple of these things here.

359
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,679
Speaker 4: I will ask you about what happened on the Oversight

360
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 4: Committee with regard to Jeffrey Epstein, but start with us

361
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,440
Speaker 4: on a shutdown. Congressman, I know Democrats are angry about

362
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,119
Speaker 4: the recisions package. Is Brendan Boyle Wright one more and

363
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 4: you're done?

364
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,200
Speaker 11: He is? I think the reality is that it's one

365
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,920
Speaker 11: of our few pieces of leverage. And when it comes

366
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,639
Speaker 11: to being in the minority, and I represent a lot

367
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 11: of federal workers, I just talked to a federal contractor

368
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 11: who would actually go without pay during a shutdown, and

369
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 11: he told me, shut the government down, because they're shutting

370
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 11: the government down. Anyway. What omb and what Russell Vote

371
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 11: is doing, what all these folks are doing, is they're

372
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 11: basically firing people left and right and moving agencies now

373
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,360
Speaker 11: out of our region, and which would devastate those agencies

374
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,959
Speaker 11: as well as the American people who they serve. So

375
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 11: we should use our leverage and try to get a

376
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,199
Speaker 11: bipartisan deal because otherwise they're just going to continue to

377
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 11: do these cuts and it's basically shutting down the government.

378
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 2: Anyway, the congressmen, when Democrats are trying to rally around

379
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 2: a message, does potentially threatening a government shutdown? Could that

380
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 2: backfire here? Because isn't that going to be fodder for Republicans. No.

381
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 11: I think there's a lot of people who are angry

382
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 11: at this administration. There's a lot of different reasons why

383
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,160
Speaker 11: they're angry. You know, take the one big ugly bill

384
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 11: or the recisions package, whatever you want to point to,

385
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 11: is why you're angry. Even Epstein and people want us

386
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,640
Speaker 11: to be a little more forceful. Actually, I think people

387
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 11: are upset with the Democratic Party right now because we

388
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 11: haven't used our leverage when we could have, and so

389
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 11: I actually think that people will reward us for trying

390
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 11: to fight back at what this administration is doing.

391
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 4: It's been interesting to watch your Oversight Committee and part

392
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,919
Speaker 4: of the reason why you're home right now. As we

393
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 4: were just discussing Congressman as the Speaker's decision to get

394
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 4: out of town a bit early and put off the

395
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein situation, suggesting that the administration needs some time

396
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 4: and some space to go through some of the documents.

397
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 4: It's unclear exactly. Maybe you can tell us a bit more,

398
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 4: but I don't want to make this whole interview about Epstein.

399
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 4: It's just hard to ignore the headlines today. You've got

400
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 4: a senior Justice Department official expected to meet with Glene

401
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 4: Maxwell and Tallahassee where she's in prison, and in Congress

402
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,199
Speaker 4: here just as the House was taking its final votes

403
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 4: ahead of the recess, a Republican led motion here on

404
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 4: the Oversight Committee. It was a motion by the way,

405
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 4: from a Democrat from Pennsylvania, Summer Lee, on this Republican

406
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 4: led committee, in fact, was passed with three Republicans to

407
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 4: release documents subpoena the DOJ for documents related to Jeffrey Epstein.

408
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 4: Is that going to happen when you come back to town.

409
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 11: It should because the committee voted to do so. If

410
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 11: the committee's doing its job and following the rules, then

411
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 11: it should actually happen that. The bigger thing is this

412
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 11: is a crisis of the presidents to making He campaigned

413
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 11: on a cover up of some sort of these files

414
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,679
Speaker 11: all last year and then said that they had it

415
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 11: on the AG's desk ready to give it out, and now,

416
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 11: given his reaction to some of these things, as well

417
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 11: as his reluctance to release report, I kind of want

418
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 11: to know whether the president is in them, and if so,

419
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 11: to what extent his relationship was and how complicit he

420
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 11: was with what Epstein was doing. And so there's a

421
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 11: lot of questions to answer. And this is all the

422
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 11: president that brought this up. He's the one that peddled

423
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 11: this conspiracy, and he created an administration of people who

424
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 11: peddled the conspiracy to get elected.

425
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 2: Well, Congressman, I just want to follow up a little

426
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: bit more on that because I know that you wrote

427
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 2: a letter to the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, looking for

428
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 2: additional information here. What exactly were you seeking and did

429
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 2: you hear back from the administration on your request?

430
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 11: Well, I wrote that letter because Elon Musk tweeted that

431
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 11: week a lot of things in oppositionship to president. But

432
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 11: one of the things he tweeted was he had some

433
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 11: sort of special access to the Epstein files, and the

434
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 11: reason they haven't been released is because the president is

435
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 11: in them. And so I simply said, why does Elon

436
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 11: Musk get to see the files? Or have knowledge of

437
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 11: the files, and we don't as members of Congress, and

438
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 11: so I simply asked the AG, well, if we're going

439
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 11: to share them with Elon Musk, then share them with

440
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 11: the rest of the country. And you know it didn't

441
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 11: get a response on that. The other thing is, you

442
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 11: know we're journeying. I mean, I'm forty minutes from the Capitol.

443
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 11: I'm ready to go back anytime. But I do think

444
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 11: we should be going back and not just working on

445
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 11: the Epstein files. But you know, we didn't do anything

446
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 11: to lower costs, So we didn't do anything on trying

447
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 11: to help people who are losing their access to healthcare.

448
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 11: And so there's a lot of things that we didn't

449
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 11: do this summer, in this past six months that we

450
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 11: should be doing. And I think recessing this early, you know,

451
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 11: is really, you know, bad, a bad look for this

452
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 11: Republican leadership.

453
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 4: I know there could be some interesting town halls in

454
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 4: the weeks ahead. Congressman, you're the ranking member as well

455
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 4: on the Oversight Subcommittee on Military and Foreign Affairs, So

456
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 4: I have to ask you about this report from the

457
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 4: Washington Post that I suspect you've seen the Pentagon's Independent

458
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 4: Watchdog says it has received evidence that messages from Defense

459
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 4: Secretary Pete Hegseth's signal account talking about the bombing raid

460
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 4: in Yemen were in fact from a classified email labeled

461
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 4: secret non foreign, making reference to being off limits to

462
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 4: foreign nationals. Is this something you're going to investigate in

463
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 4: your committee?

464
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 11: Yeah, absolutely, We've already started trying to investigate. Obviously, we

465
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 11: don't have subpoena power being in the minority, but certainly

466
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 11: we have to look into this, and it should be

467
00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 11: bipartisan because this basically contradicts everything the administration was saying,

468
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 11: and particularly the secretary headset that they weren't sharing classified

469
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 11: information on the signal chat, and now we felt like

470
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 11: they were, and it's pretty clear that the information, the

471
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 11: kinds of information they were releasing were in fact putting

472
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 11: our troops set and harms risk. And so this simply

473
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 11: confirms what we were saying, which is that this is

474
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 11: absolutely classified and the Secretary absolutely should resign and really

475
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 11: cleared a violation that would get anyone in the military fired.

476
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 11: And so I represent a lot of military families and

477
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 11: veterans and people who work at the DoD and they

478
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 11: would get fired. Over this, but it seems like the

479
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 11: Secretary is above the law or thinks he is.

480
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 4: Just to quickly follow up on that. Will the chairman

481
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 4: of the committee, the Republican chair, allow you to pursue this?

482
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 11: I have asked. I've also asked the House Republicans on

483
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 11: the committee to pursue this, and they've simply shut it down.

484
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 11: And I think they see it as their job to

485
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 11: cover up for this administration, even when they don't agree

486
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 11: with the administration or when they acknowledge that a mistake

487
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 11: was made. And so in this case, it seems like

488
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 11: they're not going to do any investigating. They simply want

489
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 11: to relitigate conspiracy theories rather than actually trying to investigate

490
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 11: this administration and things that it's doing to hurt the

491
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 11: American people.

492
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 2: Congressman, I want to pull on a little bit of

493
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: your expertise here because I know that you served under

494
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: the Obama administration as a tech policy advisor, and I

495
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: want to talk to you about some other news that

496
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: we saw this week, including President Trump launching his AI Initiative,

497
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: looking to perhaps loosen some of the regulation speed up

498
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: energy production to meet AI demand. I'd love your thoughts

499
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 2: on his plans, including when it comes to the future

500
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: of artificial intelligence, trying to keep the US ahead of China.

501
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: Is this an area where you see there could be

502
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 2: some sort of bipartisan work going forward.

503
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 11: It has to be bipartisan. I think we do have

504
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 11: to make sure that our country is a leader on

505
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 11: a We also need to make sure that our workforce

506
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 11: is prepared both for the jobs that AI will has

507
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 11: already and may continue to displace, and jobs that will

508
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 11: be created by AI. And so you know, we're talking

509
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 11: the AI we have now and we'll have in the

510
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 11: future will need human components and humans to help navigate

511
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 11: it and control it essentially. And so I think the

512
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 11: workforce pieces and there have to be by partisan and

513
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 11: I did like them. There's some stuff in there I

514
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 11: really didn't like. I mean, one of the things that

515
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 11: places like China are doing is trying to control their

516
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 11: people using AI. And there was sections of the report

517
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 11: that talked about wanting to stifle certain types of speech

518
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 11: and algorithms that might be quote unquote politically biased. But

519
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 11: what they meant by that was basically algorithms that were

520
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 11: not friendly to the President's viewpoint. And so I'm concerned

521
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 11: that this administration doesn't like it doesn't like truth when

522
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 11: it contradicts their narrative, and they're going to use AI

523
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 11: to basically try to push a new narrative. And we

524
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 11: have to make sure we're vigil in about that.

525
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 4: Congressman suehas subramanium from the data center Capital of America,

526
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 4: the State of Virginia. We thank you for the time

527
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 4: here only on Bloomberg.

528
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

529
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,

530
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen

531
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us

532
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: live on YouTube.

533
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 4: We want to talk polling, not just about trade, but

534
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 4: some other issues as well. When Cliff Young joins us,

535
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 4: we always learn something. And the headline on the deck

536
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 4: from IPSOS today says it all storm clouds on the horizon,

537
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 4: knowing the new America. When you consider the storm clouds,

538
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 4: we can count the ways right uncertainly about the economy

539
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 4: that has to do with tariffs. And then there's this

540
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 4: guy named Jeffrey Epstein. Cliff Young is president of ipso's

541
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 4: Public Affairs and helps us run the numbers. Great to

542
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 4: see you and welcome back.

543
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 12: It's great to be here.

544
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 4: I don't know where to start here. We were just

545
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 4: talking trade, so why don't we do that jump right in.

546
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 4: Let's jump right in with the idea of tariffs potentially

547
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 4: impacting prices, but also the uncertainty that it's brought to

548
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 4: the markets. How does this pan out for the voter?

549
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, first and foremost, Trump is in a good

550
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 12: place from an approval rating standpoint. His numbers are better

551
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 12: than twenty seventeen. He's about at the historic average interim

552
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 12: of the decline. Good place, right, But we have these

553
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 12: storm clouds on the horizons as we detailed, perhaps most important,

554
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 12: which are tariffs. Americans see tariffs as inflationary. They're worried

555
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 12: about making ends meet. But there was a pause and

556
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 12: that pause that Trump implemented, a pause that was very

557
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 12: important for Americans, for the American household. Actually his numbers

558
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 12: improved because of that. But there's a worry about just

559
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 12: generally making things go, as I said, making ends meet. Obviously,

560
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 12: there's a complex view of tariff's On the one hand,

561
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 12: they have a lot of doubts about the short term.

562
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 12: That has not changed a big chunk of Americans believe

563
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 12: that will be problematic at least within the next year,

564
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 12: but they see the long term benefits. They have more

565
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 12: than half of Americans believing that will bring back jobs,

566
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 12: bring back manufacturing. So a complex story, but a lot

567
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 12: of unease increpidation.

568
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: How partisan are the results on that Republicans are buying

569
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 4: the message, Democrats are not more nuanced.

570
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 12: Now, it's pretty partisan. I mean, once again, the Republicans

571
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 12: really give Trump resiliency right now, they're really booing his

572
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 12: helping to buy his numbers at this point. That's not

573
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 12: to say that independence for instance, aren't more like Republicans

574
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 12: than Democrats on this issue. But again, overall, there's this

575
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 12: worry about inflation and tariffs triggering that.

576
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 4: Sure, the long term versus the short term is an

577
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 4: interesting dichotomy. I'm actually, I've got to be honest, Cliff,

578
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 4: I'm surprised that many people are thinking is deeply about

579
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 4: this because there's been so little hard news. There's a

580
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 4: lot of talk and a lot of noise. We don't

581
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 4: have a lot of deals with a lot of countries yet.

582
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 12: No, there's a lot of noise out there. There's a

583
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 12: lot of chatter obviously, but when you're talking about making

584
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,959
Speaker 12: ends meat County Nicholson dimes, people are pretty sophisticated. Americans

585
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 12: are pretty sophisticated. They just came off a really gnarly

586
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 12: inflationary high. It's improved this year. That's part of why

587
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 12: Trump's in a fairly good place. But they know how

588
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 12: it is, and once again it's embedded in their mind

589
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 12: today that tariffs are are equivalent to inflation.

590
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 4: Do you have the most important issues facing Americans here?

591
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 4: Extremism tops the economy? Yeah, trying to interpret them.

592
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 12: At Trump's the economy today, I would put in the

593
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 12: context of the economy improving. So even though Americans are

594
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 12: worried about tariffs, worried about future inflation, things have improved

595
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 12: of the last year. You see that in the hard numbers,

596
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 12: you see that in perceptions of the economy more generally.

597
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 12: And when that happens, the economy has an issue, weakens

598
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 12: a bit, it tampers down, and local streamism really is

599
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 12: a function of all the things that the Trump administration

600
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 12: is doing that it's causing friction, whether it be immigration

601
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 12: on the one hand, or tariffs themselves on the other.

602
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: Let's talk about the other big storm cloud, and it's

603
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 4: named Jeffrey Epstein. I haven't really invested myself a lot

604
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 4: in this story because it doesn't impact policy directly, but

605
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 4: you can't escape it. And every time the President tries

606
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 4: to change the subject, that becomes the story all over again.

607
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 4: How dialed in our voters on a partisan level versus

608
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 4: this being some sort of household issue we're all talking

609
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 4: about here? How's the White House doing with this?

610
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's still predistant for Americans in general, but it

611
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 12: cuts to a core of a very existential issue for

612
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 12: all Americans, whether RD or blue or purple, and that's

613
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 12: that the belief that the system is broken, that parties

614
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 12: and politicians no longer care about the average person, that

615
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 12: elites are colluding against the average American, And at that

616
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 12: level there is resonance. Now they're not paying attention to

617
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 12: all the details, but what they're seeing right now is

618
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 12: is this just more of the same. Is Donald Trump

619
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 12: and his government his administration just telling us, you know,

620
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 12: more of the same like other administrations. Are they going

621
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 12: to come clean or not? So it cuts this very important,

622
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 12: sort of like I said, existential issue.

623
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 4: Look at this chart, though, I mean Republicans off the chart,

624
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 4: thinking that the administration is handling this well, Democrats barely register.

625
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 4: Is that where we are when you take the sort

626
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 4: of maga element out of this and look at this

627
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 4: as Republicans and Democrats, that's the story.

628
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 12: Yeah, I wouldn't overread it because we live in highly

629
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 12: highly partisan times. But the fact that we only have

630
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 12: thirty five percent of the Republicans saying that he's handling it, well, yeah,

631
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 12: we would normally expect it to be fifty sixty to

632
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 12: seventy percent. No, this is a problem that you know. Yes,

633
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 12: it cuts to the issue of a broken system that

634
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 12: elites occluding against the average person. Yes, that's true, but

635
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 12: they are not happy with Trump administration right now. To

636
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 12: what extent that affects really that weighs down negatively on

637
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 12: approval ratings, will have to see. I think it will

638
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 12: be more marginal and it's a fact rather than more central.

639
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 12: But that's a wait and see sort of sit.

640
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 4: Just such, how many people think that the government's hiding

641
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 4: this information? You asked how many Americans believe the government

642
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 4: hiding information about Epstein's death and his clients. Definitely probably true.

643
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 4: Sixty nine percent on the alleged client sixty percent on

644
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 4: the death of Epstein. People videotape didn't help at all.

645
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 12: No, not at all. People don't believe anything coming from

646
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 12: the government anymore, from elites anymore. Once again, there's a

647
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 12: widespread belief sixty sixty five seventy five percent of Americans,

648
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 12: depending on how you asked the question, believe that the

649
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 12: system is broken and elites are colluding against them.

650
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 4: What a world we are in, Cliff Young, he's the

651
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 4: president of ipso's Public Affairs. Fascinating research. Thank you for

652
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 4: bringing it to us. As always here on Bloomberg. It

653
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 4: was great being here, excellent. I'm still blown away by

654
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,719
Speaker 4: these numbers. Sixty nine percent of voters on the alleged

655
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 4: clients of Epstein they think the government deciding something many

656
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 4: thanks to Cliff on the fastest show in politics. Stay

657
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 4: with us here on Bloomberg Radio, Satellite radio, Bloomberg Originals,

658
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 4: and YouTube.

659
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

660
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

661
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

662
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

663
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

664
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: Joe News yesterday. Japan had clenched an agreement fifteen percent

665
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: for its baseline rate, but also lowered it to fifteen

666
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: percent when it came to autos. And our eyes are

667
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: now looking toward the high stake meeting later this week

668
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 2: with South Korea and whether or not we could see

669
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: some other framework deals emerge. But something does appear to

670
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: be emerging, and that's a trend when it comes to

671
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 2: the baseline rates that we're seeing implemented, and it appears

672
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: that it might be taking higher than previously thought. For that,

673
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: we're going to play you some sound from President Trump

674
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,479
Speaker 2: last night outline the range that these rates could reach.

675
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 13: We're going to have a very very simple tariff for

676
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 13: some of the countries. Have so many countries you can't

677
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 13: negotiate deals with everyone. So I'll have a straight simple

678
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 13: tariff of anywhere between fifteen and fifty percent. A couple

679
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 13: of we have fifteen because we haven't been getting along

680
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 13: with those countries too well, so we just say let's

681
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 13: pay fifty and that's the way it is.

682
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 4: I'll remind everyone that August first is a week from tomorrow.

683
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 4: At times like this. We spend time with Edward Harrison.

684
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 4: He's the force behind the Everything Risk newsletter and has

685
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 4: a keen sense of what's happening in the bond markets

686
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 4: and the elements of this whole tariff and trade story.

687
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 4: Edward is great to have you back on Bloomberg TV

688
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 4: and radio. As always, markets seem unfazed by most of

689
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 4: this right now. So when you consider Everything Risk, it's

690
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 4: been pretty risk off even in the face of this uncertainty.

691
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 4: We're a week out and you wouldn't really know by

692
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 4: looking at Wall Street maybe a little bit different in

693
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 4: the bond market.

694
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 5: How are you seeing this, Yeah, Joe, I think it's

695
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 5: interesting because if you look at the economic data jobless

696
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 5: claims in particular, what you've seen is jobless claims go

697
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 5: down six weeks in a row. And when you saw

698
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 5: the CPI that came out recently at two point seven percent,

699
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 5: basically it told traders, look, you know, everything's fine. Tariffs

700
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 5: they don't matter. You know, we've gone from two point

701
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 5: three percent on average to you know, potentially fifteen percent

702
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 5: and higher and nothing's happened. I think that that is

703
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 5: probably premature, but you know, this is a market that

704
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 5: wants to go up, and it's going to go up

705
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 5: until the data tell the market that there's a reason

706
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 5: to go down.

707
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,479
Speaker 2: Well, you right to build off of this that only

708
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 2: the actual implementation of worst case tariff outcomes are going

709
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: to shake this market. What are those worst case outcome

710
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: comes in? How likely in your view could we be

711
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: teetering towards them?

712
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 5: You know, Number one, I don't think that we're going

713
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 5: to get those, And two, I don't think that the data,

714
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 5: or rather that the data that we've seen so far

715
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 5: as representative of what will happen once the tariffs were

716
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 5: actually fully baked in. So the worst case outcome that

717
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 5: I'm looking at is sort of more of the let's say,

718
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 5: twenty percent variety. I think that Trump he's already signaled

719
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 5: that he's not willing to go that far. It's interesting,

720
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 5: you know, at one point, I think earlier in this

721
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 5: week or it was last week, he said the baseline

722
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 5: tariffs could be ten to fifteen percent. We don't know,

723
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 5: we haven't figured it out yet, But the markets at

724
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 5: new highs. So that shows you that actually my policy's

725
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 5: very good. Then markets kept on going up. As a result,

726
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 5: he decided, let me go with fifteen percent. So now

727
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 5: we're fifteen percent. I think that's about as high as

728
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 5: he's going to go.

729
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 4: Even Howard Lutnik the other day on Bloomberg said, we're

730
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 4: right up at the line. Fifteen seems to be the

731
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 4: line maybe before you start to see some real destruction.

732
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 4: But Edward, what's got you more concerned the tariff rates

733
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 4: themselves or the idea of extending this deadline all over again?

734
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 5: I think it's the tariff levels themselves, because ultimately, once

735
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 5: the tariffs are at this level, eventually three four months

736
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 5: down the line, we're going to get all sorts of

737
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 5: impacts with regard to pass through of inflation or at

738
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 5: least the price level step up that people talk about,

739
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 5: and we're going to see whether or not consumers actually

740
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 5: will be able to stomach those higher prices.

741
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: All right, Edward Harrison, we thank you so much for

742
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 2: joining Bloomberg, and we want to continue with this conversation

743
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: now with Natasha surn from the Yale Budget Lab, also

744
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: a former senior counselor to former Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. Natasha,

745
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: I'd love to bring you into this conversation here as

746
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 2: we are seeing that baseline teri freate potentially shift now

747
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 2: looks like President Trump outlining that we could see at

748
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: around fifteen percent. How is that changing your calculations when

749
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: it comes to a universal tariff freight.

750
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 11: So we put up.

751
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 14: Some estimates yesterday from the Budget lab at Yale where

752
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 14: we took stock of essentially where we are inclusive of

753
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 14: this new Japan framework and concluded that effective tariff rates,

754
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 14: if they were to go into place the levels that

755
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 14: have already been stated for the deals that have been

756
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 14: reached are going to be at over twenty percent as

757
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 14: of August first, and so that's a pretty substantial difference

758
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 14: relative to the two and a half percent when President

759
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 14: Trump took office. The result of that is we expect

760
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 14: to see prices increase for households on an average of

761
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 14: about twenty seven hundred dollars per household, and those increases

762
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 14: are going to be concentrated in particular industries where the

763
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 14: tariffs really have the greatest bite rate. So they are

764
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 14: going to be a thirty five percent increase in apparel

765
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 14: prices or a twelve percent increase in consumer or electronic prices.

766
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 14: And I think to sort of pair off on some

767
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 14: of the discussion you were just having. Part of the

768
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 14: reason you're not seeing that yet to that magnitude in

769
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 14: the data has to do with the fact that in

770
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 14: a lot of these industries Apparel is a good example.

771
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 14: What happened in the lead up to these Liberation Day

772
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 14: tariffs was an understanding that the President was going to

773
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 14: shift up these rates very substantially, so inventories rose really dramatically.

774
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 14: People tried to bring in a lot at lower tariff

775
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 14: rates with the cognizance that high tariffs were going to come.

776
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 14: So I suspect we're going to start to see some

777
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 14: of these price increases over the course of the months ahead,

778
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 14: and indeed, if you look into the CPI you're starting

779
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 14: to see a little bit of that already.

780
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 4: It's really interesting when you combine the impact of front running,

781
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 4: as you're suggesting, with maybe a reluctance at least in

782
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 4: the beginning for companies to pass along higher prices. They're

783
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 4: trying to absorb this within their profit margins to the

784
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 4: extent that they can. This is really interesting, though you

785
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 4: put such a fine point on this. Two thousand, seven

786
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 4: hundred dollars more in costs for twenty twenty five, Is

787
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 4: this then all backloaded to the second half of the

788
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 4: year or the fourth quarter, when does it hit.

789
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 14: Well, it's interesting, it's sort of hard to predict exactly

790
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 14: what these are. Sort of our estimates are based on

791
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 14: trade models that provide the capacity to do that kind

792
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 14: of granularity, but of course it's kind of hard to

793
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 14: predict with every twist and turn of this, and ultimately

794
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 14: it's hard to anticipate where exactly these terror freights are

795
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 14: going to land, because, of course, you know Howard Lutnik

796
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 14: has said August first, it's a hard deadline, but the

797
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 14: President has also said countries should feel free to come

798
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 14: and continue to talk to us after that date. So

799
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 14: in some sense, like timing this and understanding how businesses

800
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 14: are going to respond and how consumers are going to

801
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 14: respond is like a hard thing to do because it's

802
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 14: difficult to know exactly like what the environment is going

803
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 14: to be just a few weeks from now, let alone

804
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 14: what the environment is going to be a year from now.

805
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 14: But one thing I think is like really interesting and

806
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 14: important about some of these impacts is that they're going

807
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 14: to ultimately have a lot to do with how the

808
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 14: Federal Reserve responds to the increases in teriff rates that

809
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,959
Speaker 14: we've seen over the course of the first several months

810
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 14: of the administration. Because these price effects could show up

811
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 14: in the form of price increases as inflation rises and

812
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 14: prices rise, or if the Federal Reserve doesn't look through

813
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 14: these tariffs, they could also show up through a decrease

814
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 14: in nominal income. So in some sense we're in like

815
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 14: a bit of weight and.

816
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: See Natasha, I also want to ask you about growth outlook,

817
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 2: something that the administration is very focused on. Your report

818
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 2: finds that US real GDP growth over twenty twenty five

819
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 2: is zero point eight percentage points lower from all twenty

820
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: twenty five tariffs. In the long run, you write, the

821
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: US economy is persistently zero point four percent smaller the

822
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: equivalent of one hundred and thirty five billion dollars annually

823
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. Put us into put this into

824
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: perspective for us, just how much is this when we

825
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: are looking at bigger growth targets from this White House

826
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: they say will come with their policies.

827
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 14: Well, what's important to appreciate, and we've talked about before,

828
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 14: is like a way to understand the tariffs essentially is

829
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 14: that they're a form of attax and so taxes not

830
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 14: in all circumstances, but in many circumstances tend to have

831
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 14: distortionary effects and can impact economic activity. What the tariffs

832
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 14: are doing is they're shifting activity into sectors of the

833
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 14: economy that are less productive than other sectors of the

834
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 14: economy where America really has its utmost strength. And so

835
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 14: the result of that is going to be a persistently

836
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 14: smaller economy, both because we've done this sort of inefficient

837
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 14: shifting into particular sectors, but also because we've raised prices,

838
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 14: we've lowered demand, we've decreased the incentive for businesses to

839
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 14: invest and grow, and so all that is going to

840
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 14: come with really substantial economic effects in the medium run

841
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 14: and also in the long run, because these aren't teriff

842
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 14: freights that are going to kick in just for a

843
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 14: short period of time. The idea, at least that some

844
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 14: in the administration have articulated is these are revenue raisers

845
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 14: that are going to raise two point five trillion dollars

846
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 14: over the course of the next decade.

847
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 4: Love your take on the job market here, because you

848
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 4: ran numbers on this as well. Remembering this is part

849
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 4: of the promise of tariffs the idea of reshoring businesses

850
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 4: bringing jobs back. You say, the unemployment rate will go

851
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 4: up by about a half percentage point this year and

852
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 4: payrolls could be almost six hundred thousand positions lower. What

853
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 4: about teriffs bringing jobs home.

854
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 14: You know, it's so interesting because this is also sort

855
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 14: of like sector specific in some sense, so as you're

856
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 14: trying to reshore and manufacturing in particular in ways that

857
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 14: are kind of frankly quite difficult to do in the

858
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 14: short to medium run. So some of this has been

859
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 14: we want a Apple to be making iPhones in the US,

860
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 14: like they actually physically do not have the production capacity

861
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 14: to do anything like that. But let's say even that

862
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 14: they did the result of bringing some of those jobs

863
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 14: in is going to be some of these broader economic

864
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 14: trends that we've discussed, which is that prices are going

865
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 14: to go up and people are going to consume less

866
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 14: and demand is going to be lower. So in other

867
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 14: sectors of the economy there's actually going to be less

868
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 14: demand for employment and less demand for business investment, such

869
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 14: that in aggregate, you're going to see employment at lower levels,

870
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 14: even if in particularly favored sectors you manage to get

871
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 14: a little bit of an employment boost, but even that's

872
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 14: hard to do because these manufacturing jobs they use intermediaries

873
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 14: like steel and aluminum, so prices are rising on those

874
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 14: as well.

875
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: Right, just quickly, in our last minute here, can you

876
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 2: actually speak about the impacts from the sector specific tariffs

877
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 2: like steel, like aluminum. We're talking about car makers, automakers,

878
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 2: and how that's phasing in to the picture here because

879
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 2: those tariffs are enacted on a totally separate legal basis

880
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: from the so called reciprocal tariffs, yet they still make

881
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 2: their way into all of these discussions that we're talking

882
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: about for the overall tariff rates for our trading partners.

883
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 14: Yeah, and it's so interesting. At some point, it would

884
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 14: be so great to talk through some of the legal

885
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 14: dynamics here because it's we're kind of questionable legal footing

886
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 14: for a lot of the tariffs that we've described because

887
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 14: in theory they're supposed to be associated with emergency moments,

888
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 14: and it's hard to argue that there's any such exigency

889
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 14: at this point. But for some of those sector specific tariffs,

890
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 14: I've thought it's kind of complicated to make the argument

891
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 14: for them. If you're trying to say that we need

892
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 14: to do more car manufacturing in the US, more of

893
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 14: the forwards, more of the gms. Well, they're actually very

894
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 14: heavily hit by some of those sector specific tariffs because

895
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 14: sixty percent of car parts are actually imported into the US,

896
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 14: and so there's a bit of a puzzle with respect

897
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 14: to how you aim to accomplish some of these goals

898
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 14: and even boost manufacturing, as the administration claims they're trying

899
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 14: to do, if what you're actually doing is making it

900
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 14: harder to do some of that manufacturing because you're making

901
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 14: it more expensive in these particular industries.

902
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 4: Natasha, it's great to have you with us, and we

903
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 4: appreciate your insights. Professor at the Yale Budget Lab, with

904
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 4: new research to share with our viewers and listeners today

905
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 4: on Bloomberg. Natasha Suren, thank you so much for the insights.

906
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make

907
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 4: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

908
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

909
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 4: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern

910
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 4: at Bloomberg dot com.