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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Death this week's episode.

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Speaker 2: This external exam that we're doing is we're going to

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Speaker 2: be talking about stalking. We talked last week about Tyler

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Speaker 2: Swift stalker in New York City, and I told you

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Speaker 2: about a personal case that I know, a friend of

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Speaker 2: mine named Amy Harwick, who was killed by a domestic

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Speaker 2: violence situation and of course stalking. I first had met

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Speaker 2: Amy back in twenty sixteen. She was here visiting Philly

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Speaker 2: because she was from around this area with a friend

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Speaker 2: of ours, doctor Paul Kunaris, and we had texted back

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Speaker 2: and forth a couple times. We were planning to meet

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Speaker 2: up and everything. Once she came back to Philly to visit,

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Speaker 2: and then I saw the terrible news one day that

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Speaker 2: she was murdered, and I was just completely surprised. I

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Speaker 2: texted Paul right away, and it just was really crazy.

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Speaker 2: I knew this girl she was so she was beautiful, talented, smart,

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Speaker 2: She just had the world going for her from my perspective,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't know that she was battling all of

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Speaker 2: this stuff behind closed doors. And we really just need

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Speaker 2: to bring awareness to stalking and everything, because it's just

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Speaker 2: so important, and I'm going to read you some statistics

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Speaker 2: of how it really impacts a lot of people's lives.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just women. It is more women than men,

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Speaker 2: but it happens to men too. So a publication by

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Speaker 2: the Bureau of Justice reported in twenty nineteen that three

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Speaker 2: point four million people were victims of stalking, but only

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Speaker 2: twenty nine percent of them had actually reported it to police,

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Speaker 2: and of those reports, sixty seven percent of them said

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Speaker 2: that they feared being killed or being physically harmed. And now,

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Speaker 2: in relation to stalking and how it goes along with

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Speaker 2: domestic relationships, nationwide, fifty four percent of female homicide victims

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Speaker 2: reported stalking to police before they were killed by their partner.

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Speaker 2: So that's something that we need to talk about because

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Speaker 2: that's more than half of the people that were killed

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Speaker 2: had stalking involved in their case. Amy was killed on

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Speaker 2: Valentine's Day night of twenty twenty, so I thought since

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Speaker 2: we were approaching the four year anniversary of her death,

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Speaker 2: she would be She was a huge fan of my work,

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Speaker 2: and I think that she would almost be honored that

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Speaker 2: we were talking about her to try to bring awareness

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Speaker 2: to a situation. And today we're going to talk to

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Speaker 2: Amy's best friend, so we can get an outside perspective

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Speaker 2: of what it's like having a great friendship, a relationship,

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Speaker 2: a family member, someone that you love in that you're

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Speaker 2: close to, who's going through this and what it's like

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Speaker 2: to go through it, and maybe some of the war

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Speaker 2: earning signs that you would see. So please welcome Amy's

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Speaker 2: best friend, Robert Koschlin to the show. Hi, Robert, thanks

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Speaker 2: for being here.

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Speaker 1: Hi, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Robert, so tell us a little bit about Amy

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Speaker 2: and why she was so special.

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Speaker 1: But Amy was a one in a million kind of person.

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Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes when you meet a person like Amy,

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Speaker 1: you're just floored by how kind of like intense they are,

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Speaker 1: and in in such a positive way. Like she was

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Speaker 1: the person that when she walked in the room, everyone

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Speaker 1: would be so excited because Amy was here. She was

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Speaker 1: just a happy, as I said, positive kind of presence

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Speaker 1: in the woom. But at the same time, she was

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Speaker 1: super smart, she was super funny, and she was the

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Speaker 1: kind of person that just would not hesitate to help you,

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Speaker 1: specifically in your career. So she was all about helping

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Speaker 1: women further their careers their education. So if you were

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Speaker 1: talking to her, especially if you're a woman, and you

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, I'm thinking of doing this or I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of doing that, she would be like, Oh, you

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Speaker 1: definitely have to do that, and I'm going to connect

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Speaker 1: you with someone I know over there, and you know,

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Speaker 1: let me know how it goes. I'm going to check

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Speaker 1: in on you. And she just was the most supportive

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Speaker 1: person to her friends and even to people she just met,

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Speaker 1: as you know, strangers, because she was just really interested

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Speaker 1: in seeing other people succeed. And I think because of

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Speaker 1: that that lifted her up too. So everyone just loved her.

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Speaker 1: She was just you know, she was beloved by friends

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Speaker 1: and strangers alike. Anyone who met her was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, my friend Amy, you met her, you were friends,

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Speaker 1: and that's how it was. And you know, she was

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Speaker 1: my best friend, and she was a lot of people's

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Speaker 1: best friends. So she had she was she was close

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people. And but for me, she

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Speaker 1: was somebody that like I talked to all the time.

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Speaker 1: She knew everything about me. We were together quite a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's she was just she was a force, a force

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Speaker 1: of nature to be reckoned with and if she was

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Speaker 1: there was an obstacle, she'd climb over that obstacle. She

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Speaker 1: was great at just dealing with problems even though like

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Speaker 1: stress her out, but turning those problems into opportunities.

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Speaker 2: How old was she when she died?

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Speaker 1: She was thirty eight. She would have been thirty nine

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Speaker 1: in April.

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Speaker 2: And she wasn't so she died in California. She wasn't

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Speaker 2: originally from California, correct, She she was from around my area.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she was from Lansdow, Pennsylvania, which is north of

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia like an hour and I'm from that Joe Oal

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Speaker 1: Vicinity too. We didn't know each other there. We met

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Speaker 1: in California, though.

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Speaker 2: Do you know why she moved to California.

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Speaker 1: She had a guy in the band, his name was Tommy,

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Speaker 1: and they dated and then he's like, come to California

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Speaker 1: and let's get married, and they, you know, they got

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Speaker 1: married and she came out to California. They had got

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Speaker 1: had the marriage in California, which I only lately heard

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Speaker 1: that there was like a monkey at the wedding and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. I was like, well, that sounds appropriate,

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Speaker 1: but like this was like two thousand and one, or

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Speaker 1: two thousand or something like that.

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Speaker 2: And how did you meet Amy?

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Speaker 1: I met Amy at a party I was. It was

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Speaker 1: a a pool party, and I was taking photographs of it,

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Speaker 1: like sometimes I'll bring my caver to parties and I

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Speaker 1: do a lot of photography, so I'll shoot some photos.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't gone in the pool yet, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of people were in the pool. I walked into the

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Speaker 1: kitchen and she was in the kitchen in a bikini,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh hey, and it was just

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Speaker 1: the two of us. So we started talking and she

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Speaker 1: asked me if I did photography, and she's that she

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Speaker 1: did modeling. And I was like, oh, you know, are

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Speaker 1: you going to go in the pool for a minute.

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Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, I'm just stopping by. I'm on

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Speaker 1: my way to work. I was like, I was like,

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Speaker 1: what kind of work do you do? And she's like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm a go go dancer and I just want to

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Speaker 1: come by and say hello to some people. And I'm

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Speaker 1: leaving for work. You know. It was like midnight. She

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Speaker 1: was on her way to work in a bikini. So

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Speaker 1: we connected on Facebook, I think, and then we messaged

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Speaker 1: a bit, and I guess I invited her to a

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Speaker 1: Christmas party it had, and she responded via text, this

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Speaker 1: is the first text I had from her, and I

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Speaker 1: have all the texts that she and I exchanged. I

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Speaker 1: have over twenty six thousand texts that we exchanged. And

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Speaker 1: her first message was like, I can't come to your party,

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Speaker 1: and then my response was who is this? So a

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Speaker 1: couple months later we did a photo shoot together. She

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Speaker 1: came over my house and that's when we became really

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Speaker 1: good friends. She brought a tax dermyed wolfhead with her

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Speaker 1: and I shot her in my house, and then when

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Speaker 1: I walked her out to her car, she had this

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Speaker 1: like taxidermy coconut crab in the back window of her car,

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Speaker 1: which is a huge crab. I mean it's like it's

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Speaker 1: like like eighteen inches in diameter. I'd say. I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, you've got a coconut crab. She's like,

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Speaker 1: you did that. I think this it's been in the car,

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Speaker 1: the sun's been wearing down on I think it's like

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Speaker 1: kind of disassembling. But I was just like, killing my god,

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Speaker 1: you're amazing when your friend. So that's kind of when

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Speaker 1: our friendship really took off. And that was in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and thirteen beginning of twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you said I had read on one of

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Speaker 2: your Instagram posts that you guys were such good friends

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Speaker 2: that you texted all day, and you said sometimes you

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Speaker 2: even talked to her more than you were talking to

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Speaker 2: your wife at time.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was later. I mean we in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: when I first became friends with her, I'd see her

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Speaker 1: maybe once some month or something like that, and we

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Speaker 1: messaged because it's like when you first meet people, you know,

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Speaker 1: and she had a lot of people buying for her attention,

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Speaker 1: and she gave everyone her attention. Maybe also people that

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Speaker 1: you know were not as good for her, but she

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Speaker 1: was one of She had a bit of a people pleaser,

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Speaker 1: I aspect in the very beginning when I first met her.

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Speaker 1: That changed over time, But in the last years, like

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, nineteen, twenty twenty, we messaged every day. I

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Speaker 1: talked to her at least once a day on the phone,

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Speaker 1: and I saw her sometimes, like in twenty nineteen, saw

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Speaker 1: her a couple times a week. In twenty twenty, you know,

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Speaker 1: I go over her house. She'd stop out of the

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Speaker 1: house sometimes just for like a few minutes or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But we got together quite frequently, as many as like

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Speaker 1: five times a week.

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Speaker 2: So the person that the man that killed Amy, his

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Speaker 2: name was Gareth Purce House. When did you first hear

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Speaker 2: of his name from Amy?

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Speaker 1: I think she mentioned him first to me around two

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Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen. She had she didn't really talk much

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Speaker 1: about her past, and it was like over time that

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Speaker 1: I'd learned things about her. So she'd always be pulling

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Speaker 1: things out. They'd be like, wait, what you know, and

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Speaker 1: then she'd tell me this thing. So she had so

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Speaker 1: much in her past, but she was always very focused

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Speaker 1: on the present and the future. But she had mentioned

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Speaker 1: that she had an abusive boyfriend, and she had told

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Speaker 1: me once, for example, they had gotten in a fight

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Speaker 1: and hit her and she called the police. When the

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Speaker 1: police came, he convinced them to arrest her and said

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Speaker 1: that she had attacked him, and she ended up spending

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Speaker 1: the night in jail and before like, the police, after

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Speaker 1: further questioning, decided actually he was the problem, and then

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Speaker 1: they picked him up instead. She had told me that

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Speaker 1: story once, but she didn't tell me that there was

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Speaker 1: like an ongoing situation until twenty fourteen. She'd gone on

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Speaker 1: a trip and when she came back. She called me

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Speaker 1: and she's like, I think, you know, Gareth has broken

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Speaker 1: into my house and stolen all my photo albums and

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Speaker 1: like turned some things upside down and stuff. And he

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Speaker 1: also like like like erased my computer. And I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, turn on your computer, tell me what you see.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, yeah, her computer didn't even have an

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Speaker 1: operating system on. It didn't even have Windows on it anymore.

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Speaker 1: It was just like so I was like, well, that

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Speaker 1: does not normally happen in just overnight accidentally. So I

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Speaker 1: came over and you know, looked around, and I told

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Speaker 1: her she should get a webcam and stuff. But she

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Speaker 1: followed a police report about it, and then we went

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Speaker 1: to lunch, and then she told me about other things

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Speaker 1: that had happened with Gareth and kind of gave me

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Speaker 1: a lot of that. They'd run down of her concerns

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Speaker 1: about him and his ongoing like obsession with her, that

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Speaker 1: he had gotten her kicked off of jobs. So she

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Speaker 1: had applied to be a family counselor at a prison

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Speaker 1: and she was in the final stages of interviews and

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Speaker 1: he had been hacking into her email. I think when

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Speaker 1: they were together he had access to her computers and

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Speaker 1: probably installed software on her computer and phone that he

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Speaker 1: was able to kind of monitor what was going on,

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Speaker 1: because she felt like he was monitoring her. And he

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Speaker 1: sent a nude photos of her to the prison that

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Speaker 1: you know person that was the hier hiring person, and

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Speaker 1: they ended up like denying the job. So she was

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Speaker 1: really upset about that. But what she was able to

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Speaker 1: do is really turned that around. So she had this

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Speaker 1: job opportunity where she would have gone to literally work

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Speaker 1: out a prison in somewhere and nowhere's go California. And

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Speaker 1: if she had taken that course of action, we all

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Speaker 1: probably wouldn't know the amy that we know today. I

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Speaker 1: probably would not have met her. I thank you all

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Speaker 1: the things and wild things and interesting things she did,

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Speaker 1: probably would not have happened so much. Who had just

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Speaker 1: been in a small town working at the prison counseling families,

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Speaker 1: which I think she would have found very satisfying. But

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Speaker 1: because of what happened and the photos he sent were

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Speaker 1: from Playboy, actually she was really angry that you know,

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Speaker 1: because she had posed nude somehow this was something that

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Speaker 1: would affect how she could perform in her job at

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Speaker 1: you know, at the prison and she also recognized that

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Speaker 1: this is a problem that a lot of women have

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Speaker 1: that their judge based on their sexuality or if they

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Speaker 1: were new and it's you know, she's like, this is

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Speaker 1: really stupid. I don't think that this is something that

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Speaker 1: should happened. So she decided to devote her work towards

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Speaker 1: helping sex workers and people who have issues with things

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Speaker 1: like that cope with dealing with being in a society

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Speaker 1: where women are often judged just because of their sexuality.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's when she decided, because of what he did,

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Speaker 1: to go get a doctorate in human sexuality. So it

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Speaker 1: kind of like this very upsetting thing that happened. Really

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Speaker 1: she was able to turn into this course correction that

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Speaker 1: really set the stage for all the success she had

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Speaker 1: later in life.

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Speaker 2: So that was probably really fueling his fire as well,

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Speaker 2: because he was trying to ruin her and kind of

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Speaker 2: beat her down, and instead he enhanced her even more

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Speaker 2: than she was before.

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Speaker 1: Yes, every time, every time he'd do something like, she

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Speaker 1: would be better on the other side. Even even now

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Speaker 1: he's killed her and which is the most he can do.

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Speaker 1: He's gone to jail and everyone's still talking about Amy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: She's not able to, like, you know, do all the

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Speaker 1: great things that she was probably going to do. But

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Speaker 1: we're still talking about her.

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Speaker 2: Did she ever say when? Because she was dating him

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Speaker 2: prior to even meeting you, so you weren't really like

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Speaker 2: around while they were currently dating. But did she say

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Speaker 2: that she loved him at all at any point or

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Speaker 2: was it more of just she was kind of scared

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Speaker 2: to get away from him because of the way that

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Speaker 2: he was acting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she so. When I met her, which was in

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve, and then later we shot photos in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: she was just I think she had just broken up

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Speaker 1: with him just before I met her, so it was

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Speaker 1: like a very close add on. But she didn't talk

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Speaker 1: about him until twenty fourteen to me. She did tell

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Speaker 1: me that in the beginning she did love him, but

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Speaker 1: he became very controlling and very well physically abusive eventually,

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Speaker 1: and then was questioned of being afraid of him, but

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Speaker 1: she still did love him, and that she thought that

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Speaker 1: he would change because after a bad episode he would

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Speaker 1: become super sweet and apologetic and do all these nice things.

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Speaker 1: And that's a pretty class sick abuse or action. They

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Speaker 1: are they're horrible selves and then they because they're narcissists,

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Speaker 1: typically they then do all the work to win you

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Speaker 1: back and convince you they're not going to be that

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Speaker 1: way again until the next time. And that's that cycle,

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Speaker 1: and people get addicted to the good times and think

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Speaker 1: that that bad time is just a blip, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we can have these good times again if only I

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Speaker 1: do this, or only I stop doing that or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And that's how the control starts to happen, if I

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Speaker 1: stop talking to my friends or what have you, and

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Speaker 1: then things are good until there's some new infraction. And

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Speaker 1: this is how people stay in these relationships and ultimately

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Speaker 1: how often people do get injured a chill.

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Speaker 2: I have a friend who was in a relationship that

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Speaker 2: they would get into really bad fights and then they

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Speaker 2: would start pushing each other around and they'd have to

303
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Speaker 2: call the cops. And it was always getting like that

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Speaker 2: multiple times. But as her friend, I did tell her,

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Speaker 2: you gotta get away from this because this isn't normal.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, I never had a feeling

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Speaker 2: that that guy was gonna kill her. I just thought

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Speaker 2: like they were just getting a little passionate during their fights.

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Speaker 2: It happens to some people. Whatever I never feared like

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Speaker 2: he was like weird and and and was pushing it

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Speaker 2: beyond the point of within this normal range of fighting

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Speaker 2: or whatever. When when do you think that happened for

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Speaker 2: her that she became was she was an abused girlfriend

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Speaker 2: to being like scared and thinking this guy is going

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Speaker 2: to try to hurt me, just thinking that he was

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Speaker 2: acting weird, Like what would make her think that when

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Speaker 2: she came into her apartment, he was definitely the one

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Speaker 2: that broke in and did this stuff to her.

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Speaker 1: Well, I knew that he you know, she told me

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Speaker 1: that he was obsessed with her, and you know, w

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Speaker 1: we continue to like try to message her or content

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Speaker 1: hacked her or lead notes or whatever. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that she ever thought that he would kill her. And

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Speaker 1: I think that in general, we just don't that's outside

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Speaker 1: of our imagination because it doesn't that doesn't happen to us,

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Speaker 1: It doesn't happen to our friends, it doesn't happen to

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Speaker 1: people we know. It happens on TV, it happens on shows.

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Speaker 1: And it's just so we don't think the way someone

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Speaker 1: who kills somebody is thinking. And you know, maybe they

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Speaker 1: think that way all the time. Maybe it's just like

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Speaker 1: you know, they just gear up, you know, gear up

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Speaker 1: and do it. But I knew that she was afraid

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Speaker 1: that he might hurt her. I don't know when that happened.

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Speaker 1: I think when he broke into her apartment and did

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Speaker 1: those things, which she assumed it was him, just because

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Speaker 1: of the weird nature of what happened, all her photo

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Speaker 1: albums being taken and her computer being erased. I think

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Speaker 1: she always described him as a like brilliant hacker. I

339
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Speaker 1: don't really think that he was a brilliant hacker, but

340
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Speaker 1: he was a programmer, and you know he use how

341
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I get some software, but any program could

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00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 1: do that. But he going into her house, I think

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Speaker 1: that's the first time she really started to worry about him.

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Speaker 1: But then after that things settled out. She got a

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Speaker 1: new computer, she got a new phone, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: he can't be hacking into your new computer. Your phony

347
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 1: has no access to it. So changed the locks on

348
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Speaker 1: her door. But he could pick locks, but she was

349
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Speaker 1: always a little nervous about that. So yeah, So I

350
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Speaker 1: don't know at what point she was worried about him,

351
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Speaker 1: but I think it started when he broke into her place.

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Speaker 1: But then there were many years in the interviewing years

353
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Speaker 1: before she ran into him, and then what happened that

354
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 1: he was probably behind a lot of online posts on

355
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 1: these gossip websites and so forth. But there was a

356
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 1: second person that was also stalking her, which was the

357
00:19:55,040 --> 00:20:00,360
Speaker 1: next girlfriend, and this person and Gareth all and would

358
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: team up and talk about harassing her. So it's hard

359
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,159
Speaker 1: to say if he was the one doing it or

360
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: if there was this woman who was doing it who

361
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 1: came out by the way after she was murdered and

362
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: gave an interview to the newspaper, and I was like,

363
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Speaker 1: I cannot believe this person is giving an interview, you know,

364
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 1: to try and like bank off of Amy's name in

365
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 1: some wayer just get her name out there. But even

366
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 1: in the interview, she had to explain why Amy had

367
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Speaker 1: a restraining order against her, so she's like, it was

368
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 1: just a misunderstanding. And I actually went to court with

369
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Speaker 1: her to get in the restraining order and this woman

370
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: brought a lawyer and all this stuff, and Amy did not.

371
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Speaker 1: And Amy actually prevailed in that case because it was

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Speaker 1: so gorgious.

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Speaker 2: So at what point were at this point when she

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Speaker 2: told you that he had broken into her house and

375
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 2: you were pretty convinced that it was him as well.

376
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Speaker 2: Is that was there a point where you started getting

377
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 2: scared for her and thinking like this is a little

378
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 2: beyond the normal way people act when they're upset, when

379
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 2: people break up.

380
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Speaker 1: Oh. Absolutely, it was at that breakup or at that

381
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: break in. I was absolutely afraid for her. And I

382
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: talked to her about it that day when we had

383
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: lunch afterwards, and you know, I asked her, you know what,

384
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: you know we need we should do something, and she's like, well,

385
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 1: I don't have the actual proof. And she did follow

386
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: a police report indicating she thought it was him, but like,

387
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 1: she didn't have any actual specific proof that it was

388
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 1: him and I have to admit, which she called me

389
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 1: and told me all this stuff. I was skeptical. I

390
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 1: was I really, you know, like this, who would do that?

391
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 1: So when I came over then, I was like, oh,

392
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, this is a true story here. This is

393
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,919
Speaker 1: not because again I we were friends, but like you know,

394
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: we're just starting to become you know, get to know people,

395
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 1: and sometimes you think I was someone's exaggerating or whatever.

396
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: But once I was over there, I was like, Okay,

397
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 1: I get this, and she was like yeah, look at

398
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: all the things that were turned upside down and the

399
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: house and stuff. It was like just weird and creepy,

400
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: just kind of like him letting her know he was there,

401
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: and I think to kind of rattle her.

402
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: Now at this. Prior to this, she did have a

403
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: restraining order against him. Correct.

404
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had one restraining order, and then she filed

405
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 1: for a second one, but she didn't end up following

406
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: through with the second one.

407
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 2: Do you know why she didn't follow through with the

408
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 2: second one.

409
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 1: I don't know specifically. She had a bunch of files.

410
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 1: I saw the files that she had, but I know

411
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: I think the second one she'd filed the straining order once.

412
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: I don't know. I actually don't know the combination of things.

413
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: But she followed her restraining order after he beat her

414
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 1: up one time and she had black eye and stuff.

415
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: And then there was another time where the police came

416
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 1: out and she had filed it. But then she had

417
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: to go to court, and I think she was too

418
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 1: scared to see him. I think that she just didn't

419
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: want to, like deal, Like, she was very scared of

420
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: him at the end of their relationship, and I think

421
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: the thought of having to go to court to face

422
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: him was just too much for her emotionally at the time.

423
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: And that's something that's hard for people that are in

424
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: these situations. To file restraining order, and you get one,

425
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: you have to go through quite a lot of misery.

426
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: This person that you're going to try and get a

427
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: restraining order against, they have free ring to kind of

428
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: like just make you miserable, like just go after you

429
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: and all these things. And then once it's reached a

430
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: certain point, now you have to go to court and

431
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: convince the court to get a restraining order. They don't

432
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: get punished for all the things they did to you already,

433
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 1: and basically courts just like go hey, stop doing this,

434
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, or we might arrest you. But a lot

435
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 1: of times people are abusive will just skirt the edge

436
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: of what they are allowed to do. I saw a

437
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: case at forty eight Hours has done a number of

438
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: shows about Amy and the first one they did, they

439
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: have one coming out on the tenth Saturday, February. The

440
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,239
Speaker 1: first episode, they had some interviews with other people at

441
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: restraining orders and like the restraining orders like you had

442
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: to stay like one hundred feet away and this person

443
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: be like one hundred and five feet from them all

444
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: the time, you know, just like just skirting the rule

445
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 1: and that's okay because it's technically okay, but it's obviously

446
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: not okay.

447
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the laws, especially when this happened to Amy,

448
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 2: all of this stuff that comes out that restraining orders

449
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: expire and all the trouble you have to go through.

450
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 2: I personally think, if someone's harassing me, why can't I

451
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 2: just go to police and say, can you please make

452
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: sure that they stay away from me? Why do I

453
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 2: have to give proof even if I feel scared?

454
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because you know, obviously people can also abuse that. Yeah,

455
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: but you know, so it's hard. I had a situation

456
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: myself in twenty twenty one where I had to file

457
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: for restraining where against a woman and I didn't get it.

458
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: And I think the judge, you know, we went to

459
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: court and everything, and the judge and who's probably been

460
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: on the bench for a long time and seen a

461
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 1: lot of men beat up women, and here I am

462
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: getting try to get restraining order against a woman and

463
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: who's very beautiful and articulate and so forth, and has

464
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: her lawyers and everything. And I think he had one

465
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: look at and he's kind of like, oh, you know

466
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: this pretty thing is causing you trouble, Like I don't

467
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: see this, and he's basically said, I don't see a

468
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: need for this. I was trying to explain my case

469
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: and I had witnesses. He's like, I don't think we

470
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: need any witnesses and just hurry up and tell me

471
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: what it is. Like it was so it was so decided,

472
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: like I barely was able to get out the story,

473
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: couldn't bring any witnesses, and then like he was like

474
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: not going to give it, and fortunately for me, she stopped.

475
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: Because I think restraining orders are effective for people who

476
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: have something to lose, and for people who like Garris,

477
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: who he's you know, doesn't have a lot of friends

478
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: and he's he's on the outskirts a little bit, like

479
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: they don't you know, it's already illegal to hurt someone

480
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: or murder them, right, So having a restraining order, you know,

481
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: it's for people to have something to lose that it's

482
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: going to really actually work.

483
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly. So this break in she had, you

484
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: said was around twenty fourteen, I think so, and then

485
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: all of a sudden she didn't really hear from him

486
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 2: anything about him for years.

487
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: Correct that's correct.

488
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And at during that time, was it something that

489
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: you just kind of both of you just kind of

490
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: forgot about and thought it was finally over with.

491
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: I didn't forget about it because of the online harassment

492
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: that was still happening and the stuff that was posting

493
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 1: that was being posted. She believed a lot of it

494
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: was this woman, but she also thought that it could

495
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: be Gareth too, so it still would come up and

496
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: it was causing her trouble, especially when she got with Drew.

497
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: Carry there was like kind of an uptick in posting

498
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: because suddenly her profile was high again and she was

499
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: in the public eye and on TV and stuff. So,

500
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: I mean, she was on TV even before Drew, but

501
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: this was just there was more in the media about

502
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: her and their relationship and there was big uptick, and

503
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: Drew tried to have an attorney stop some of the stuff,

504
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: but because of the way the internet's regulated, you can't.

505
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: You know, Basically, websites say like, well, we're not responsible

506
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: for what people post, and that's our policy, so you

507
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: go deal with the people. But people are anonymous and

508
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: you can't find out who they are. So at the

509
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: end of the day, like they couldn't do anything, even

510
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: with all his attorneys and stuff.

511
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is which is scary. And that's that's another

512
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 2: point that I have is that she had a little

513
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: bit more research resources than the average woman does. Same

514
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 2: with Tayler Swift, and they still can't make these people

515
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: stop harassing them and stalking them, which is it just

516
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 2: doesn't say much for any person that's going through this

517
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: that there's almost nothing you can do about it.

518
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: That's the part that I think, that's the part of

519
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: the story about Amy that really resonates with people and

520
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: why this story has touched a lot of people because

521
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: here's a woman who had everything. She had money and fame,

522
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: she was trained in these things, she counseled other people

523
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: about domestic violence, She helped a lot of people through this.

524
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: She knew all the things you were supposed to do,

525
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: and she did all the things right, and this still

526
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 1: happened to her. And I think that's what hits home

527
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: for a lot of people who are just in some

528
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: small town somewhere that's going through a situation. That makes

529
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: it just all the more real because if it can

530
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: happen to her, it can definitely happen to anyone. And

531
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: that is very silvery.

532
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: Hey guys, this episode is brought to you by the

533
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: Gross Room. Starting on February ninth to February twenty third,

534
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535
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536
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537
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Speaker 2: all the way dating back to twenty nineteen. You definitely

538
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539
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Speaker 2: the grosserroom dot com for more info and sign up.

540
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: So she hasn't heard from him for years, and then

541
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, about a month before her death,

542
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: she goes to an award show and she runs into

543
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: him there. She didn't know he was going to be there.

544
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: He just so happened to be a photographer that was

545
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: there at the same time. What did she tell you

546
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: about that interaction with him?

547
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: So the next day, after the show, I texted her

548
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: and I said, how is the show? This show, by

549
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: the way she went to is imprompted. She wasn't planning

550
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: on going. At the last minute, someone invited her to go, like, oh okay,

551
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to show. So I texted her

552
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: and said how was the show? And she said, I

553
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: have to call you. So she called me because now

554
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: she was worried that he was monitoring her text messages

555
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: and throwing again. And she's like, you know, I ran

556
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: into Gareth. I saw him. I thought he maybe would

557
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: recognize me or not see me because she was walking

558
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: the red carpet and he was a photographer. But he

559
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: basically just went nuts. He like ran over her and

560
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: was like screaming at the top of his lungs like

561
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: you ruin my life, you bitch, and all these things

562
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: in the middle of a room for like hundreds of people,

563
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: and then like fell on the ground crying. It was

564
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: in the fetal position, and she's like she was really

565
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: scared by it because it just showed how obsessive he was.

566
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: And he was reciting texts that they had sent each other,

567
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: like you know, years before, Like he like verbatim texts.

568
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: He's like what you said blah blah blah blah blah.

569
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: And she's just like, this is not healthy. So she

570
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: went into kind of like counselor mode, and she's like,

571
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: I've got to de escalate this situation. I need to

572
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: calm him down. I need to get him to you know,

573
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: stop being you know, emotional right now, because well, I

574
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: think it was embarrassing to her, but also terrifying to

575
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: her because here's a person who hasn't moved and she's like, hey,

576
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: it's been eight years, Like I want you to, you know,

577
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: go meet other people, Like, you know, I do not

578
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: want to be with it. We cannot be together and

579
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: you need to live your life. I'm living my life

580
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: and you know, trying to like be the Ami that

581
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: everyone knew, like you know, be be kind, firm, and

582
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: you know, kind of let him down. She was terrified

583
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: of him, but she wanted to be in control and

584
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: de escalate the situation and kindly you know, let him off.

585
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I've read different different thoughts

586
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: on that approach because in some cases I've read that

587
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: when this happens, and if you're nice to the person

588
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: who's like being terrible to you, like it creates this

589
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: opening where they think they have an opportunity again because

590
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you're being kind and nice and gentle

591
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: with me in my thing, and you know, maybe like

592
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: you will get back with me and it, you know,

593
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: especially if they're delusional as he was, you know, so

594
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: it's hard to say, but she automatically went to that place,

595
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: which is how she was. She was someone who would

596
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: comfort you if you were going through a crisis. And eventually,

597
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, they they parted ways. But after that, she

598
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: started receiving soul messages. There were flowers left in front

599
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: of her door like soon after that, so she was

600
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: she was terrified. I told her that she needed to

601
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: get a gun because like you just s don't know

602
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: she bought She didn't buy it. She said that she

603
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: would consider it. She didn't do it. She bought pepper spray,

604
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: which was still in its unopened Amazon package on the

605
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: day she's killed. But even so, you just, you know,

606
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: with what happened, you're not going to be armed all

607
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: the time or carrying something in your hand at every

608
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: moment when you know, so, you know, it's hard. I

609
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: don't think there was much that could have been done

610
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: in that situation. Anyway. I asked her if she, you know,

611
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: could get a restraining order, and she's like, it's no

612
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: because like he didn't threaten me, only gives cry on

613
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: the floor, and that's not in any way I'm going

614
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,479
Speaker 1: to allow me to get a new restraining order. And

615
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: that's what I think needs to change about restraining orders.

616
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: I think you should be able to wring new to them.

617
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: I think you should be able to something happens and

618
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: it's automatically restored, like probation type of situation. I don't

619
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: think they need to last forever, because there are people

620
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: that do stop. But I think you need to be

621
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: able to reactivate him right away. Would that have helped her,

622
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. We can't say with any certainty, but

623
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: that's something that I think could have could have happened.

624
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 2: So when she went home the next day, she wrote

625
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: herself an email. Can you tell us about what she

626
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: wrote in that email?

627
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: Yes? She in her email basically that she wrote to herself,

628
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: she talked about running into Gareth and the things that

629
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: he was doing. She wrote everything, but she did tell

630
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: me stuff that was not in the email. But it

631
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: was pretty but it was a pretty good overview of

632
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: his behavior and the things he said to her and

633
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: how scared she was. I mean, she basically said that

634
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: she was scared. And I think that she had written

635
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: that email to herself as the basis for building a

636
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: new case to get a new restraining order. Because that's

637
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: the kind of thing you need to do to get

638
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: a restraining order. They don't take your words. They want

639
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: to see evidence. So having pre written emails from a time,

640
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, prior to when you're getting the restraining order,

641
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: starting to establish a timeline and so forth. So I

642
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: think she was she wrote that as insurance to establish

643
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: her feelings so that she could get a restraining order

644
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: in the future. I'm assuming that because I didn't know

645
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: she wrote an email until I found it after her death.

646
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: So what did she What happened after that? Like they

647
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: were broken up for so many years that he didn't

648
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 2: know where she lived, and he didn't have her new

649
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 2: phone number and all this stuff assuming, so how did

650
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 2: he How was he able to get a hold of

651
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: her after he saw her?

652
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: Well, unfortunately, in this day and age, finding out people's

653
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: personal information is incredibly easy unless you are completely disconnected

654
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: from the Internet. It's so easy for you to find

655
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: out where someone lives. I mean, she bought a house

656
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: which was in her names, that's public record. So basically,

657
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, you'd pay a website forty dollars and they'll

658
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: give you every file that exists on you. So I

659
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: think and also for her business, her phone numbers on

660
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: her website. So this is the problem with our connected age.

661
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: It is very hard to escape a stalker without changing

662
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: your identity and you know, not being who you are,

663
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: which people obviously don't want to do too. So yeah,

664
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: he found out, but I think that's that's google.

665
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 2: And did she tell you that he was continuing to

666
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: contact her?

667
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, she mentioned flowers on the door and the texted

668
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: her and that she blocked him. But then there was

669
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: no additional communication because now he didn't have a way

670
00:35:58,960 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: of communicating to her.

671
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: And at that time, were you do you have like

672
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: a group of friends that know about this or was

673
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: it strictly just you that she was talking to about this?

674
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: Oh? No, she told everybody. She told that absolutely everyone.

675
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: So at that time, did you guys all get together

676
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: or even just talk to each other and say, hey, like,

677
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: something's really not right here, this is really scary.

678
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: We talked. I mean I think when I talked to

679
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: other friends or mutual friends, we definitely talked about it.

680
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: I don't think that we saw it as abnormally scary.

681
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: I think we're worried about it. I guess we were

682
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: worried about it. Because you'd been gone for so long,

683
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: was acting so weird. I think we thought it was weird.

684
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: But again, no one thought it would happen. What would

685
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: happen would end up happening. That was outside the realm

686
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: of consideration. We never talked about like at least going

687
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: to like hydro house or kill and kill her. That

688
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: just seemed just possible.

689
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: Okay, So a month after this this encounter that she

690
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 2: had with It's Valentine's Day night and she goes out

691
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: with her friends. Can you tell us about the last

692
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 2: time you heard from her that day?

693
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. I talked to her around one pm on Valentine's Day.

694
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: My second wife was with her that morning. They had

695
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: spent the morning together and I came to breakfast and

696
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: hung out and she was she had just left and

697
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: was driving home to my house and I called Amy

698
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: or Amy called me, and we just said Happy Valentine's Day,

699
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: I love you, I love you, and that was, you know,

700
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: the extent of it. She told me she was going

701
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: out that night to a Burless' show, but that was

702
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: our that was our last communication. So you know, the

703
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: last words I said to her and the last word

704
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: she said to me where I love you, which I

705
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: guess is the best we can help for.

706
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. It's it's just it's so sad to

707
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 2: hear what happens next that So she went. She goes

708
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 2: out with her friends to a Burless show. She comes

709
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 2: home and Gareth is in her apartment waiting for her.

710
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: She doesn't know it, obviously, and he murders her. When

711
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 2: did you When did you first hear that something happened

712
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: to her?

713
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: So when I woke up the next day, which was

714
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: a Sunday, I think I noticed I had a whole

715
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: bunch of text messages from her roommate Mike Herman, and

716
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of missed calls, including from the police, and

717
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: I was like, this is weird. So I looked at

718
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: the texts and Mike said, Amy was assaulted last night.

719
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: I'm at the police station. They want to talk with

720
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: you too, And so I was like, well, you know,

721
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: I was upset, you know, I mean, but like I

722
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,959
Speaker 1: didn't know what assaulted me. I didn't know like while

723
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: she was out at the Berlin lest thing, something happened

724
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: on the street, or she got robbed or mugged or

725
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: beat up or I know it, like no information. So

726
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: I called the number that was on to the police

727
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: and they said, hey, can you come down to Hollywood

728
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: station this morning? And they said okay, but they didn't

729
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: really let onto anything. So I wasn't like. I finished breakfast,

730
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: I got dressed, and I went down there, and I

731
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: wasn't thinking, you know, how how absolutely terrible the situation

732
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: would be. And then I asked, well, I did ask

733
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: them where Amy was and they said she was in

734
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: the hospital. Because I checked her phone location. She and

735
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 1: I started sharing locations on the day of the awards.

736
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: The day after the awards thing, when she told me

737
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: she ran into Gareth She's She had told me on

738
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: that day, hey, if anything happens to me, it's him,

739
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: and I said, let's share a phone location so I

740
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: can see where you are. So we started doing it

741
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: that day. So I checked her location now after talking

742
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: to the police coming down of the station, and it

743
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: said in her house. I was like, well, that's weird.

744
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: So then I'm like, is her phone They told me

745
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: she was in the hospital and it so I was like, well,

746
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: I guess her phone's still there. So then I was like,

747
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I didn't know what to make up of

748
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: any of it. So then I went to the polaystation,

749
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: and then they started asking me questions, you know, saying

750
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: that she had been injured and was in the hospital,

751
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: and if I knew who could have you know, or

752
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: who could have done this? And you know, I really

753
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: didn't know if you know, someone just broke in or

754
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: what happened, right, I didn't know. They didn't give me

755
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: the information, but I did say there is one person

756
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 1: that she said, if anything happens to me, it's him,

757
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: and it's this ex boyfriend she recently ran into. So

758
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: I gave them his name. I only knew his name

759
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: is Gareth. I didn't know his last name at all.

760
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: She'd only talked to him about him, as Gareth didn't

761
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: know his name. Weirdly, he not worked like next door

762
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: to each other for a time, So like, I didn't

763
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: know this because I didn't know, I didn't even know

764
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: what we looked like. So I contacted a mutual friend

765
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: of ours. Her name's Marcy, and new Marcy knew Garareth,

766
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: you know, during their when they were dating. I knew that,

767
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 1: so I said, hey, what's Garret's last name? She sent

768
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: it to me. I gave it to the police and

769
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: that's how they got his name to start looking into him.

770
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: That's that's interesting. So you're at the police station and

771
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: they didn't really give you any details about what happened.

772
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: So maybe if you had heard exactly with the circumstance,

773
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: you would have been more like, okay, it was definitely this.

774
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 1: Well, when you're being in when they're investigating, I mean,

775
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: they don't know. Yeah, I'm everyone yeah yeah, so yeah,

776
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 1: So they told me all that, and then they said, okay,

777
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: go sit out in the lobby and Mike was there,

778
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: roommate was there, and he he was very agitated, very upset,

779
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know how, you know how

780
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,439
Speaker 1: what happened? And he just he's like he just kept

781
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: saying it was really it's really bad. It's really bad.

782
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: It's really bad. But like he didn't tell me anything either.

783
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: He was just so like beside himself. So then the

784
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: police called us back in to the room together and

785
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: they said we had some really bad news and that

786
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: Amy passed away, and they told us that together, and

787
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: then when I was leaving, they gave me their cards

788
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,479
Speaker 1: and then I noticed that there was I was talking

789
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: to homicide. So but they knew already that she had

790
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: died hours before my interview, but they told us post

791
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: interview that she had died.

792
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I was going to say, because I thought

793
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: that she just died a couple hours of within getting

794
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: to the hospital. So your friend that was there, that's his,

795
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 2: that was her roommate. He had stumbled he found her

796
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: right like that is that why he was saying she

797
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 2: was really bad?

798
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: Well, I mean he he saw her on the ground.

799
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: I mean, he was there when it was happening, so

800
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: and that that you know, so and he he had

801
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: gone to get help and so forth. So but then

802
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: he saw her on the ground, So that's when he,

803
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, I guess made his evaluation.

804
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why he was so traumatized and couldn't

805
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: really speak about it because he just was so shocked.

806
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean, and it was it was an

807
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: alarming scene. I mean, in in the trial of Garris,

808
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: I mean, they should applied him and stuff. And see

809
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: her on the ground, it's pretty disturbing.

810
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 2: So and I know that she was she was engaged

811
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: to Drew Carrey and she was they apparently they had

812
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: some kind of a call or a text that they

813
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: were going to get together to try to start talking

814
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: again or become friends again. So clearly they were on

815
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: pretty good terms. How who told him about what happened

816
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 2: to her?

817
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: Well, so I'm going to back up and just talk

818
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: about them getting back together and being on good terms.

819
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: They had just started to like reconnect. You know, they

820
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: had their breakup and they were you know, they weren't

821
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: on terrible terms. I think they really both still loved

822
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: each other, but it just wasn't working out. But then

823
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: they weren't talking too much, and then this reconnection meeting. Interestingly,

824
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: she didn't tell me about it because her other friends

825
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: were like, oh, yeah, she was doing it, but she

826
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: won't tell you because you would try and talk her

827
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: out of it. And I love Drew, like he's great,

828
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: but like she would always get back with people that

829
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: she broke up with, and I was always trying to

830
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: talk her out of doing that. I'm like, you already

831
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: went through this, and you know why you broke up.

832
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: You need to, you know, stay broken up. But I

833
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: did like Drew. He was great, and I always said

834
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: he was the best person that she didd I met.

835
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: So she hadn't told me, so I only found that

836
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: out later. I was like, oh, interesting, I mean, that

837
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: sounds accurate, but I uh, after I left the police station,

838
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: I told Marcy. The police told me not to tell

839
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: not to let it go too far because they wanted

840
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: to tell her parents in person, and they were going

841
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: to send police to tell her parents. And I gave

842
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 1: them her parents information, but her parents were not home

843
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: at the time. They were at there her brother's house,

844
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: like house sitting, so they couldn't find her parents for

845
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: a while. So they said, you know, until her parents

846
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: were informed, don't post about it online or whatever. So

847
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: I but I started calling people and I told everyone

848
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: just to keep it on the DL for now. I

849
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: told Marcy first because she's the one that gave me

850
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: the Earths information, and then after that I kind of

851
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: went down all her close friends, including Drews. So I'm

852
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: the one that called Dru and told him so. And

853
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: everyone's reaction was universally just disbelief, and you know, everyone

854
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: was extremely upset. And I made that call. I made

855
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: the call. Thirty high was probably and it was and

856
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: it never got easier, and that people were driving. I'm like,

857
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: you need to pull over your car and stop before

858
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: we talk, and they're like, no, I know, I'm like, no,

859
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: do that. So they would do that and I tell

860
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: them and then you know, they would have pretty significant,

861
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: severe emotional reactions because it's huge and horrible and unbelievable.

862
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 2: And did most people you knew that were close with her,

863
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: that knew the whole situation with Gareth where they was

864
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: everybody just like, we know it's him?

865
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah, everybody was absolutely positive it

866
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: was him.

867
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: And how long after you found out about her murder

868
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: were you made aware that Gareth was arrested.

869
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: Well, I was in contact with the place, so it

870
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: was pretty soon and thin it was like the next

871
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: day they told me it was. It was soon after

872
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: it happened. So I was talking to police constantly. So

873
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 1: I had gone to do my interview, but then I

874
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: was sending information to them because people had different and

875
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, bits of data that I thought would be

876
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: useful because again we didn't know for sure it was Gareth,

877
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: but we were just sending more information, including I was

878
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: put in contact through a mutual friend of a woman

879
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: who was supposed to go on a date with Gareth

880
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: because we were just talking about it being Gareth. And

881
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: by the way, this was all after once her parents

882
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: were informed Soon thereafter TMZ broke the news. I had

883
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: a bunch of people over my house and we were

884
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: just talking about it, and then it was like everywhere and.

885
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 2: How did how did they finally get a hold of

886
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 2: her parents?

887
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: I don't exactly know. They had phone calls and stuff,

888
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: but they eventually met up with their parents. I feel

889
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: like it was late, like eleven pm at night one

890
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: the time that they gave him the information. So after

891
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,399
Speaker 1: that we let more people know about it. And then

892
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: someone came forward to say that they were supposed to

893
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: go on a date with Gareth that night and he

894
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: had been texting them before and after what happened, and

895
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: so you know, I put them in contact and they

896
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: ended up ultimately testifying court about that. So but everyone

897
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: who had information, anyone knew dais anyone who knew anything

898
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: that she had said about it, or anyone who had

899
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: been at the awards ceremony there too. I was putting

900
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: in contact with the police, and so I was always

901
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: I was in contact with them constantly, which is how

902
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: they told me soon after.

903
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: And did they want you, did you have to testify

904
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 2: in court because you knew so much information?

905
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: I did testify in court, but the information my testimony

906
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: was pretty limited, and it was limited to the email

907
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: I found on her on Gmail to herself about being

908
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: afraid of Daarreth, which was apparently a pretty and instrumental

909
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: piece of evidence about her state of mind, because at

910
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: one point the defense was saying that she invited she

911
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: wanted to meet up with him at the preliminary hearing

912
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: there they changed the theory all the time as to what happened.

913
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 1: But preliminary hearing they implied that she invited him over

914
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: to like hang out, and she wanted to meet up

915
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: with him, and this was all arranged situation. But when

916
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: I found that email, that pretty much blew that story

917
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: out of the water. And then they had a new story,

918
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: and then a new story, and then you know, ultimately

919
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: they didn't even offer a defense in court. When they

920
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: were called to present their defense, they just rested, which was.

921
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: Well, what, like I was just going to say, who cares?

922
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 2: Like if she said come over, let's talk and make

923
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 2: up that who cares? I mean, she he killed her.

924
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: Still, I think they were looking for a way to

925
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: like say it wasn't premeditated, and probably we're going to

926
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: say that she started it. It was an accident. Who

927
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're lying, but that's that's the

928
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: most likely line.

929
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: So I know that you have said that that you

930
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 2: are shocked that they didn't really present anything. I mean, really,

931
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: what could they have? What were they going to present?

932
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: It was? There was so much evidence at him, but

933
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 2: he was He was sentenced to life in prison without

934
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 2: the possibility of parole. So now he's sentenced and everything.

935
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 2: Has he ever admitted to killing her or ever expressed

936
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 2: any remorse for his actions?

937
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 1: No? What?

938
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 2: Why? Why do you think that is? Like? What what

939
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 2: does he have to lose at this point? He just

940
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: doesn't want to give anyone the satisfaction of it.

941
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that he's not He's not

942
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: a good person. I think he is a selfish, narcissist,

943
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: and I think that he probably in his mind feels

944
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: like this was a justified action. I think that he's

945
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 1: not a good person.

946
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: If you talk to any person, if you're just sitting

947
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 2: around the dinner table talking about the death penalty and everything,

948
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 2: I think every single person has an opinion. They're for it,

949
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: they're against it, or whatever, until it actually happens to

950
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 2: them that one of their close family members or friends

951
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: are are killed in such a heinous way. Has this

952
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 2: has this experience changed the way you think about that?

953
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 2: Are you satisfied with his conviction of life in prison

954
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: without the possibility of parole or would you be okay

955
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 2: if he had the death penalty too?

956
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: Well? I live in California, and in California the death

957
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: penalty allegedly exists, but it's not real. Someone that gets

958
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: sentenced to death in California, which I don't think has

959
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: happened in a long time, never puts to death. Never

960
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: to put to death. I don't know when. The last

961
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 1: time they did it was the seventies maybe, So in California,

962
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 1: the death penalty is basically the same as life and

963
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: prison without parole, except and actually in the up costing

964
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: war because it got through all these appeals and so forth.

965
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: So in California, life in prison without parole is the

966
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: best you can get in terms of the punishment, which

967
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: I accept. If the death penalty here was more like

968
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: say Florida or Alabama or whatever, where like you know,

969
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: they do it pretty fast, I would have gone for that,

970
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: and I would absolutely support this, And I actually gotten

971
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: an argument with someone I'm at a party who's actually

972
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: a death penalty, like an advocate for people who are

973
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: on death row to like stop them from being executed.

974
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: I got a huge argument with her, but you know,

975
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 1: no way to change my position. I think that, you know,

976
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: sometimes some people just don't need to be part of

977
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: our society, and I don't see any reason for us

978
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: to just have them in a cell forever, because you know,

979
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: society is done with them. They have they've basically like

980
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: invalidated their permission to be part of this world. And

981
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: so I support the death penalty if it actually was.

982
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 2: Reliti Yeah.

983
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's some countries where, like you know,

984
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: you get sentenced to death, they take you out of

985
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: the court and shoot you. I don't believe in that,

986
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, that does happen, you know. I believe that

987
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: if there is a death penalty, there should be in

988
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: a p ol phase, and certainly people who are not

989
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: guilty get sensed that sometimes, but there are sometimes where

990
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: it's just there's no question.

991
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I one hundred percent agree with you. I think

992
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: a lot of times people will say that that you know,

993
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 2: they're human and they don't deserve this. But I think

994
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: about the victims all the time, and how horrible. It's

995
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 2: not even just Amy, it's it's you guys, it's her parents,

996
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: it's everyone that knew her. It affected and to think

997
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: how she was terrorized for years. I mean, she was

998
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: so young when she died, and years of her life

999
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 2: where she was scared of someone did why does he

1000
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: deserve to live? And she didn't. It's just not it's

1001
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 2: not fair. I know that a lot of yourself and

1002
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 2: some of her friends are putting together. They're trying to

1003
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 2: bring changes in maybe through Congress, with the criminal justice system,

1004
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: to try to change some of these rules that have

1005
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: to do with stalking and have to do with restraining

1006
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 2: orders and things like that. Do you were you involved

1007
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 2: with that change dot org petition or one of Amy's

1008
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 2: friends was that's something that you guys are still trying

1009
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: to give and where are you at with that?

1010
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? So there were two different petitions, and then the

1011
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: people who were doing that kind of got together and

1012
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, work together as a team,

1013
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: and then I get involved with them too. Maybe I

1014
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 1: don't know how many signatures it was in the there's.

1015
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 2: A lot, like three hundred thousand. I think I saw it.

1016
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: Was over five hundred thousand actually, So in twenty twenty,

1017
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: like right after she died, we were very active working

1018
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: on this. We were making phone calls, we were getting

1019
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: meetings with state senators, we had, we were trying to

1020
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: get with Nancy Pelosi's office. We did a lot of

1021
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: work in trying to get to people about changing these laws.

1022
00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: And what happened was COVID happened, and then ever and

1023
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: everything derailed. So we were working pretty hard at it

1024
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: and COVID ended up derailing us. And to be honest,

1025
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 1: we have not gone back to that. We had had

1026
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: so many meetings. But one thing that did happen is

1027
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 1: in California, and I think it was September of twenty twenty,

1028
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 1: It might have been maybe September of twenty twenty, there

1029
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: were some new anti stalking legislation passed, and I don't

1030
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: know if we had influence over that. I like to

1031
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: think that we did. But some of that made internet

1032
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 1: stalking a crime that was suitable for getting restraining waters

1033
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: and which was something that was happening to her a

1034
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: lot too, because before that actually would not qualify if

1035
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: you were posting things online and doing all these types

1036
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: of harassment campaigns. Online. It didn't qualify for a restraining

1037
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: order because it wasn't a threat of death. So that

1038
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: did get passed, and which was something I said, I'm

1039
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: I was trying to get my restraining order, but apparently

1040
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: didn't happen. But so that was one of one of

1041
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: a bunch of things that we wanted to do. But

1042
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: the other things were to be able to renew restraining

1043
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: orders more easily if you already had one and basically

1044
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: set no expiration for them, if you you know, if

1045
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: something happened, it would be like put back and forth.

1046
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: That was one of the biggest things that we wanted

1047
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: to do.

1048
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 2: But yeah, it just sounds silly, Like I feel like,

1049
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 2: if you want to, it would make more sense to

1050
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: make the person go and get the restrain restraining order

1051
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 2: taken away rather than inexpiring. Why would it ever go

1052
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:38,879
Speaker 2: bed if.

1053
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: All of the work is on the victim, all of

1054
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: the work, like the victim takes all the abuse and

1055
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: then they have to go through all of the paperwork,

1056
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: gather all of the evidence, and make their case court

1057
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 1: that they deserve this, and the person that's abusing them

1058
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: literally has to do nothing, I mean, you know, deny it.

1059
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 1: They just don't. No burden is placed upon them, and

1060
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: they're the ones that are actually committing this.

1061
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 2: Tell us about the memorial you're trying to create for

1062
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 2: Amy's legacy.

1063
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: So, Ray, after she died and after I got back

1064
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: from the funeral, we were talking. I was saying, our

1065
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: parents at the funeral, and it was a big funeral

1066
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: that were like over seven hundred people came. It was

1067
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: an open casket funeral, and our parents have told me

1068
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: that they never would have done this funeral the way

1069
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: it is. They would have had her cremated because they

1070
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: would have assumed she would have wanted to be cremated. However,

1071
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: two weeks prior, she called them and said that if

1072
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: I ever die, I want to have an open casket funeral,

1073
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: and I want to have an elaborate headstone and give

1074
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: them all these specifications. So they were like, she called

1075
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: us a couple of weeks ago and told us how

1076
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: to do all this, and now, oh my.

1077
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 2: God, that just gave me the chills. That's so sad.

1078
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:13,439
Speaker 1: And the but the cemetery, which is close to her parents' house,

1079
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: they don't allow elaborate headstones. So then I was like, well,

1080
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know I think she would have liked

1081
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: to be buried in California and Hollywood Forever, which was

1082
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: a cemetery, you know, where all the famous people are

1083
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 1: and you know, a place that she'd like to go to.

1084
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: So in fact that the night after she died, on

1085
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: a sign your Hollywood Forever, you know, her image was

1086
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: actually a photograph I had taken of her was turned

1087
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: into street art and spray painted on a sign outside

1088
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: of Hollywood Forever, just her face, basically her portrait, which

1089
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: kind of like I think, was you know, fitting Dave

1090
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: Navarro did it actually, so you know, so I think

1091
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: everyone agreed, would agree that like Hollywood Forever be a

1092
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: good place for her. So then after I came back,

1093
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: I was like, I went to Hollywood Forever and that

1094
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: was them, and we talked about, like, you know, what

1095
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: it would take to get a plot and build a

1096
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: memorial but not actually have someone buried there, and they

1097
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: said yes. So I started working on this kind of

1098
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: project where I wanted to build a bronze statue of amy,

1099
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: but also with a ton of memorial plaque as a

1100
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: memorial for victims of domestic violence, because there isn't really

1101
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: one in America there's a little this and all that.

1102
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to make something that was just like very grand,

1103
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: very impressive, something that just made it, you know, just

1104
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: put in your face a little more. But it would

1105
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:52,919
Speaker 1: be Amy in a bronze statue in the guise of Aphrodite,

1106
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: the Goddess of Love, and basically have a memorial plat

1107
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: two memorial plots, one to her and then one to

1108
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: victims of domestic violence in worldwide or order America. I'm

1109
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: not sure working on with text, but so anyway, and then

1110
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: I started raising money for it. It's fun to take

1111
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 1: a lot of money. May he have bronze statuees not cheap,

1112
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: but the most expensive thing is actually the plots in

1113
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: Hollywood forever. So you know, raised a dell. But we

1114
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: have been raising money, people have been donating and just

1115
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: I just I'm hoping to this week shoot a video

1116
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: just to talk about it more. But the strategy is

1117
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: to make a three D model of her and the monument.

1118
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: I actually have three D scans of her that were

1119
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: done while she was alive. I know some people have

1120
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: a studio that they specialized in making models for films

1121
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: and so forth. So she went and got scanned so

1122
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: we have her three dimensional image, we just need to

1123
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: build the rest of the body. That would all be

1124
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: built three D and then it would be printed three D,

1125
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: printed using a printer that makes wax. So it wouldn't

1126
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: be life size because there are limits of the Heiden

1127
01:00:58,440 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: Memorials there, but it'd be like four and a half

1128
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: to be high to be put on a like granted

1129
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 1: based printed in wax and then cast and brons and

1130
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: then put in place. And my feeling is I'm just

1131
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: going to get raising money until we get there. It's

1132
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: kind of like my mission. So that's so that's something

1133
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: I'm working on.

1134
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 2: Where can people go to donate to this statue.

1135
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: There's a website it's called Amy Harwick Memorial, and that

1136
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 1: tells you about the project. There's bill fundme linked in there,

1137
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: which is where we're taking money, but we also take

1138
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: checks and stuff like that. But that's kind of how

1139
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 1: we're doing it right now. So yeah, so that's that's

1140
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: kind of something I'm focusing on. I really focused on

1141
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: it in twenty twenty one and then just gearing up

1142
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: to the trial and everything, it's just been a it's

1143
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: been intense, so I kind of like just let it

1144
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: go for a while, and now this year I've done

1145
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: really pushed through.

1146
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you've been through a lot. It's your

1147
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 2: best friend dies, and then the pandemic happened in the

1148
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 2: next two weeks later or something. It just all that craziness.

1149
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 2: So and then the trial, it's just like, give yourself

1150
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 2: a break. You're you're doing good. You're doing a good

1151
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 2: thing for her.

1152
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I want to finish it

1153
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: because I just want to finished all I want. I

1154
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: want to. I want it to I want to see it,

1155
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: you know. So I have all the vendors lined up

1156
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: and everything else you need to always need to raise

1157
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 1: some money and get it made. But yeah, I want

1158
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: to finish it because I just I want a place

1159
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: for people here in California and her friends that can

1160
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: go and you know, pay a little homage or what

1161
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: have you, and some of our friends do go out

1162
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: to Pennsylvania to her brave there too.

1163
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: So well, thanks so much for sharing her story with

1164
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 2: us today. Is there anything else you'd like to let

1165
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 2: us know?

1166
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: Don't I don't know.

1167
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 2: I think you've told us. You've told us so much.

1168
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 2: This was this was great, and I think it's really

1169
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 2: good for people to listen to this, even if they're

1170
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 2: in the situation themselves, that this is this happened to

1171
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 2: a real person, or if they have friends or family

1172
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 2: in this situation. Do you have any advice that you'd

1173
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 2: offer to people that have friends that are in this situation.

1174
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, these types of situations are they're more

1175
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: serious than you think. When your friends going through a

1176
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: thing and they maybe are telling you a little to

1177
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: this and that they're probably not telling you all of

1178
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: how bad it is, and that is I think how

1179
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 1: friends can sometimes overlook when people are in bad situations

1180
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: and not see it as what an emergency it probably is,

1181
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times people on abusive

1182
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 1: relationships underplay the seriousness of their fear, the seriousness of

1183
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: the situation to their friends because they know better, They

1184
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: know they're in a bad situation, and it's maybe also

1185
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 1: a little self preservation that they're just trying to convince

1186
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 1: themselves it's maybe not as bad as they think. But

1187
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: I think that if you know someone that's an abusive relationship,

1188
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: being able to offer them help in the form of

1189
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 1: helping them set up ways to escape that situation by

1190
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 1: like them stay with me, I can help you get

1191
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: your bank accounts because financial control, obviously in a lot

1192
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: of domestic situations, is a big part of the problem too.

1193
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: That was not an Amy's case, not case, but financial

1194
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: control often is what keeps people stuck. They have kids,

1195
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: and this person has all the money control or tied up,

1196
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: and they don't know how to get out of it.

1197
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: It's a difficult situation. But there are helplines for this,

1198
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: and on the Amy Harleck memorial website. I have all

1199
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: the numbers there and I totally don't remember them off

1200
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: the top of my head, but maybe you can add

1201
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: them somewhere. But there are hotlines for people who are

1202
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: in abusive situations that they can call and talk to

1203
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: professionals to deal with these type of situations all the

1204
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: time that can provide counseling, advice and suggestions on how

1205
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: to deal with their specific circumstance. And I think reaching

1206
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 1: out for professional help is the best thing to do

1207
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: you can reach out for. You should reach out to

1208
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: your friends, but your friends should be able to tell

1209
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: you about getting some professional assistance too, because I think

1210
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: it's important to have that back up. But all that said,

1211
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 1: your friends are your first line of defense. Your friends

1212
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: are the people that can shelter you right away. The friends,

1213
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 1: your friends of the people that can help you get

1214
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: on your own feet and away from the person that's

1215
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: doing this. And also the police can't save you. The

1216
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: police are not the police come to investigate after a crime.

1217
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: They don't come before the crime. I think it's also

1218
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: important to you know, learn some self defense classes and

1219
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 1: just always be prepared and always have one eye open

1220
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: when you're in these types of situations. You don't want

1221
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: to live your life in fear, and Amy would not

1222
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: have done that. She did not live her life in fear.

1223
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: She lived her life to the fullest because if she did,

1224
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 1: that would be another win for him that he could

1225
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: abuse her, and then she would just be miserable and

1226
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 1: like hide from the world. You don't want to do that,

1227
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: but at the same time, you do want to be

1228
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 1: mindful of your surroundings, be mindful of you know, possible

1229
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 1: things that can happen, and just always be prepared because

1230
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: you just don't know. Well.

1231
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing that, and again, thanks so much for

1232
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 2: talking with us about this. We know it's hard for

1233
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 2: you to talk about this, but it's been really informative.

1234
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: Thank you, You're welcome, Thanks for having me on.

1235
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Mother Knows Death. As a reminder,

1236
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 2: my training is as a pathologist's assistant. I have a

1237
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 2: master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.

1238
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 2: I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed

1239
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 2: or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of

1240
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 2: a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social

1241
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 2: media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based

1242
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 2: on my experience working in pathology, so they can make

1243
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 2: healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember

1244
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:34,920
Speaker 2: that science is changing every day, and the opinions expressed

1245
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 2: in this episode are based on my knowledge of those

1246
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 2: subjects at the time of publication. If you are having

1247
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 2: a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a

1248
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 2: medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent

1249
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 2: care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review, and

1250
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 2: subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or

1251
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 2: anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks