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Speaker 1: Pushkin too quick. No, it's perfect push kid stuff.

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Speaker 2: You got it, Jacob on business history, we often talk

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Speaker 2: about rich people and the businesses that made them rich, but.

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Speaker 3: We rarely talk about what many of those rich people

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Speaker 3: do with the second half of their lives, which is

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Speaker 3: the attempt to live forever.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they got all this money, why not? Really nice?

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Speaker 5: And you know when a rich person decides they want

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Speaker 5: to live forever, a lot of people show up to

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Speaker 5: take their money to help them.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Woldstein, I'm Robert Smith.

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Speaker 4: We have a very special guest today.

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Speaker 6: Hi, Kara Swisher. Kara Swisher.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this is Business History, a show about the history

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Speaker 5: of business. And Kara, you have a new show.

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Speaker 6: I do. I do have a new show. So Kara

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Speaker 6: Swisher wants to live forever.

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Speaker 7: Although I have a lot of business history because I'm

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Speaker 7: and then Discovery History, I am business history. So I

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Speaker 7: feel good being here. I've been covering tech since the

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Speaker 7: beginning of the Internet age. I would say, when these

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Speaker 7: people didn't have money, when Jeff Bezos was poor, right.

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Speaker 4: Mister poor hedge fund.

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Speaker 7: He was, well, he wasn't rich, I'll tell you that,

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Speaker 7: not like he couldn't buy Venice at the time in

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Speaker 7: this wedding, and I just covered them as a reporter,

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Speaker 7: first at the Washington Post and then I was at

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Speaker 7: the Wall Street Journal for a long time, and it

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Speaker 7: was really interesting to watch them transform the world in

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Speaker 7: a lot of ways, not just technology, but everything social, political, communications,

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Speaker 7: for everything. It touched everything, and as it started to change,

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Speaker 7: you would see them change. And one of the things

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Speaker 7: that comes with great wealth and great adelation.

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Speaker 6: Is the idea that you're a god.

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Speaker 7: And so they started to act like gods, which was

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Speaker 7: some of them, not all of them. And what I

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Speaker 7: found really interesting is their interests started to if they

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Speaker 7: could hack the world, could they hack life itself? And

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Speaker 7: they kept early on, they started doing a lot of

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Speaker 7: healthcare related things because it's a big industry and it's

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Speaker 7: a really messed up in afficient industry, and they just

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Speaker 7: started to get very interested in their bodies, like in

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Speaker 7: terms of what they were doing and could.

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Speaker 6: They hack the brain?

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Speaker 7: And it's been out of science fiction because a lot

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Speaker 7: of science fiction is about that, about the morphing of

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Speaker 7: technology with humans. They started to sort of get into

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Speaker 7: that and they started talking about it.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it's not just that it's the new

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Speaker 3: rich and the new technology. I mean, it seems like

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Speaker 3: people who have been rich, who think themselves gods, have

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Speaker 3: been doing this for a long long time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we were looking back the first Emperor of China,

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Speaker 5: the guy who united China.

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Speaker 6: Which we mentioned in the show.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, jinghr Wong, right, so that's hundreds of years we

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Speaker 5: see he put out an executive order for everybody in

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Speaker 5: the empire to look for a life prolonging elixir and

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Speaker 5: send people out on missions and apparently brought in you know,

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Speaker 5: doctors slash, alchemist slash and magicians to his court, right,

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Speaker 5: and it's means as if he died of mercury poisoning

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Speaker 5: because they gave him mercury too livery long.

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Speaker 7: That you've got that exactly right, And we talk about

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Speaker 7: those there's been throughout time that like drinking the blood

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Speaker 7: of virgins doing that, you know, there was all manner

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Speaker 7: of different things, or bathing in the blood of virgins.

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Speaker 6: For example.

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Speaker 7: Ponce de Leon is sort of the most enduring finding

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Speaker 7: the found you you know, and there's all these these

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Speaker 7: ideas around how to live forever and use the word lixur,

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Speaker 7: which is really important because the liixture is always in

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Speaker 7: science fiction, and of course this motivates a lot of

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Speaker 7: science fiction, as I said, motivates a lot of tech

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Speaker 7: people and the idea that there is a one, single

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Speaker 7: solution that will give you life. And then it also

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Speaker 7: morphs interestingly into the ideas behind Frankenstein and Dracula, and

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Speaker 7: you know that's all about longevity in some way and

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Speaker 7: the costs of lunch.

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Speaker 5: Well, Frankenstein is a book about technology, right, It's written

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Speaker 5: in the eighteen hundreds, kind of amidst the Industrial Revolution

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Speaker 5: by a romantic writer and a cautionary tale for sure.

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Speaker 6: Or is it right? Because I think it does how

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Speaker 6: you reach it?

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Speaker 7: You know, the idea of vampires, the idea of all

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Speaker 7: these things is how do you morph your body so

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Speaker 7: that it's immortal?

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Speaker 4: Said?

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Speaker 7: Of course Greek mythology, it's to Thonus, a god falls

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Speaker 7: in love with this guy, gives him eternal life, but

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Speaker 7: forgets to keep him young.

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Speaker 4: Right, it's the curse of immortality.

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Speaker 7: Right, the curse of immortality. And that's so all of it.

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Speaker 7: It's throughout our history of humanity. And of course religion

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Speaker 7: is about the idea of living forever.

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Speaker 5: And that same Chinese emperor who died of mercury poisoning.

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Speaker 5: Apparently he's the one with the terra cotta warrior army

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Speaker 5: in his crypt right to you know, lead him through

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Speaker 5: the afterlife.

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Speaker 4: So even if he died at forty nine, in his

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Speaker 4: mind he was going to live.

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Speaker 8: And you don't even get to the Egyptians, which is

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Speaker 8: another industry, is an incredible technology tools to pull your

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Speaker 8: brains out like a later they would take the organs out,

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Speaker 8: mummify them, and then put them.

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Speaker 7: Them back in and actually they're rather well preserved, which

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Speaker 7: is really interesting, and so one of the and then

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Speaker 7: it got me interesting because then American history, you know,

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Speaker 7: Kellogg's a Cereal was about a health brand.

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Speaker 6: Right, there was all this manner of.

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Speaker 7: Stuff that these different people would try to perfect the

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Speaker 7: human body through nutrition and usually false nutrition.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 5: It was always talk about Kellogg for a secon because

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Speaker 5: I think it speaks interestingly to a particular part of

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Speaker 5: your show. So there was John Harvey Kellogg, who was

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Speaker 5: actually his brother, started the serial company. John Harvey Kellogg

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Speaker 5: was a doctor and as you know, he had this

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Speaker 5: famous sanitarium, but it was like a fancy health spa,

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Speaker 5: you know, Amelia Earhart went there, and Henry Ford went there,

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Speaker 5: and presidents went there, and he prescribed. He was really

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Speaker 5: into enemas, including yogurt enemas, also into eating yogurt. So

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Speaker 5: I'm wondering probiotics light therapy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which you did in your show.

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Speaker 6: I did, but it's not doesn't work.

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Speaker 5: I'm guessing it didn't work then either. But that particular

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Speaker 5: story of John Harvey Kellogg and what a big deal

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Speaker 5: his sanitarium was and how legit he was and fantasy

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Speaker 5: was it reminded me of the You go essentially to

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Speaker 5: the modern version of that in the show, right, you

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Speaker 5: go to some fancy wellness center.

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Speaker 4: Tell us about that.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's interesting.

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Speaker 7: Concierge medicine has taken over and there is a healthcare

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Speaker 7: system for the rich and one for everybody else. And

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Speaker 7: of course we don't have universal health care in this country,

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Speaker 7: but a lot of people are sort of bypassing our

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Speaker 7: broken system and having these concierge medicines where they do

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Speaker 7: extensive amounts of tasks, look at everything, They want to

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Speaker 7: check you all the time, they call you all the time,

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Speaker 7: they want to make sure, they offer different supplements and

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Speaker 7: different trends and it's basically it's business, is what they're

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Speaker 7: trying to do, and they take advantage of sort of people,

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Speaker 7: especially rich people, having the money, to be able to

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Speaker 7: spend ridiculous amounts of money on solutions that aren't actually solutions.

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Speaker 5: I will say, like one that is interesting to me

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Speaker 5: in that regard is like the full body MRI scan

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Speaker 5: for healthy people, like that insurance doesn't cover.

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Speaker 4: It's a rich people think. I'm pretty sure that's a

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Speaker 4: bad idea. It is a bad idea.

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Speaker 5: Because there's lots of there's this term incidental oma, and

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Speaker 5: if you came up with that, but it's like it's

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Speaker 5: an incidental finding. It would have been fine if you

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Speaker 5: left at alone. But now that you've seen it, oh

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Speaker 5: we better do something about it, right.

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Speaker 6: And you couldn't that.

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Speaker 7: I was actually just interviewed Eric Topel yesterday on my podcast,

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Speaker 7: and he talked about that this idea of like you

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Speaker 7: go in there and cause more problems than you first

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Speaker 7: started when it was just a minor cyst, that you

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Speaker 7: don't need to do anything. Surgery, invasive surgery is always

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Speaker 7: full of risk, and so it's this you know, again,

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Speaker 7: as you say, from history, this has been something that's

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Speaker 7: been going on, that there's constantly a solution to something,

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Speaker 7: and the American public especially has been pushed and pulled

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Speaker 7: of what you should do and what you shouldn't do.

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Speaker 7: I mean, there's those famous pictures of people with the

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Speaker 7: things that shake you, you know, and of course now

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Speaker 7: and now you have shaking things, huh. And I'm always like, okay,

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Speaker 7: show me the science.

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Speaker 6: I'd like to see it.

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Speaker 7: And amid all this nonsense, there are incredible strides like

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Speaker 7: AI everyone's terrified of and should be for a number

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Speaker 7: of reasons. And at the same time, the idea of

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Speaker 7: drug discovery, the speed at which you could test things,

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Speaker 7: the idea of figuring out like an organ clock, what

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Speaker 7: is your organ clock?

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Speaker 6: We usually look at the body as a whole.

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Speaker 4: But Eric Tobolts, Yes, absolutely.

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Speaker 7: True, and you AI will help you do that in

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Speaker 7: a faster and more efficient and more accurate way cancer detection,

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Speaker 7: cancer drugs. And so I wanted to say, look, there's

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Speaker 7: all this Charlottanism happening, like heavy duty online and social media,

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Speaker 7: like you cannot believe. And at the same time there's

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Speaker 7: all this promise. So you know, in computing, you talk

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Speaker 7: to the signal to noise ratio. There's a lot of noise,

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Speaker 7: much of it nonsense. There's a lot of signal too,

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Speaker 7: and so I was trying to find the signal.

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Speaker 1: And this often happens when.

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Speaker 3: Rich people, for their own egotistical needs, research something. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: there's things that come out of this. I'm reminded of

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Speaker 3: a historical story of Charles Lindberg in the nineteen twenties, because,

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Speaker 3: of course, the first man to fly solo across the Atlantic, famous.

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Speaker 9: Pilot, I don't know, a truly horrible person, truly, truly,

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Speaker 9: So in the nineteen thirties he meets the Nazis well

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Speaker 9: famously famously so in the nineteen thirties he meets this

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Speaker 9: Nobel Prize winning scientist, Alexis Corral And Alexis is.

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Speaker 3: An actual scientist who's experimenting on keeping organs alive outside

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Speaker 3: the body.

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Speaker 1: And his idea is that people will just be able to.

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Speaker 3: Swap organs in in the future and they develop all

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Speaker 3: of these amazing technologies. Charles Linsberg, because he was sort

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Speaker 3: of a mechanical engineer, sure interesting, helps Correl develop the

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Speaker 3: pump that can keep organs alive. It infuses a profusion

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Speaker 3: fusion device that the principles of which are used to

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Speaker 3: this day. Now it turns out that Alexis Corral, the

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Speaker 3: Nobel Prize winning scientist, doesn't believe that everyone.

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Speaker 1: Should live forever. He just believe that white arians should

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Speaker 1: live forever.

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Speaker 6: Once the attraction to Lindberg had an attraction to that.

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Speaker 5: Well in the twenties it was all eugenics. That didn't

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Speaker 5: kelle get into eugenics way.

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Speaker 6: They all did, you know.

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Speaker 7: And then it leads to the ugliness of Nazism, which

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Speaker 7: did enormous amounts of on people and actual people in

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Speaker 7: order to figure out skin color, eye color, all manner

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Speaker 7: of things, which is horrific at the same time, of course,

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Speaker 7: so it always leads to that is like who should

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Speaker 7: live and who should die? And one of the things

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Speaker 7: that I wanted to get into is the vast inequality

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Speaker 7: in this And a good example is crisper, which it's

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Speaker 7: a technology very promising, and I interviewed Jennifer Dawdna one

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Speaker 7: of the Nobel Prize riners around.

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Speaker 6: It, but like who, how should we move.

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Speaker 7: This out and who should pay for it because it's

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Speaker 7: very expensive. And one of the areas is sickle cell

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Speaker 7: anemia and using crisper. It's still in its early stages.

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Speaker 6: Let me be clear. You could possibly solve.

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Speaker 7: It a single genetic mutation and you could just clip

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Speaker 7: it out essentially, and they're not doing it because it's

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Speaker 7: a population that's poor. It's a population that's African American primarily.

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Speaker 7: And one of the points that I think one of

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Speaker 7: the people that make is you can be sure if

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Speaker 7: Elon Musk had sickle cell anemia, it would be solved yesterday.

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Speaker 7: It's a two million dollar per person even if it

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Speaker 7: works kind of thing. And so how do you figure

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Speaker 7: out ways to get these technologies into the hands of

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Speaker 7: as many people as possible, as many doctors as possible,

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Speaker 7: so they could use them. And so I tried to

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Speaker 7: what I was sort of on a search. I myself

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Speaker 7: had a stroke many years ago. I have a hole

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Speaker 7: in my heart which is now plugged. I know your

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Speaker 7: bought and thank you a very easy surgery when it

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Speaker 7: used to be a very hard one.

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Speaker 4: There is technological progress, but.

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Speaker 7: I went even I went further because around strokes there's

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Speaker 7: so much cost in a lot of these There's this

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Speaker 7: this lab in Stanford run by this woman from China,

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Speaker 7: and they're using little tiny things like you remember the uh,

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Speaker 7: that movie where they injected a little ship, a tiny

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Speaker 7: little ship into a human The Incredible Voyage. Incredible, but

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Speaker 7: it's called the Fantastic Voyage if you go watch it.

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Speaker 7: The the technology in the movie is terrible. It's like

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Speaker 7: you could sort of see the man's hand moving the stuff.

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Speaker 7: They're fighting white blood cell, that's right, that's right, with

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Speaker 7: their zappers. And one of the things that's interesting these

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Speaker 7: little millibots and they go into your they get injected

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Speaker 7: it when you're having a stroke, they get injected into

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Speaker 7: your neck. And one of the problems now is they

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Speaker 7: can use medication to mitigate it, which takes a minute

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Speaker 7: and you could have damage, or they put this catheter

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Speaker 7: in and go to the clot. Right now, the catheter

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Speaker 7: goes in, and just the introduction of a catheter's a

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Speaker 7: problem because it could nick something or whatever. And it

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Speaker 7: goes in and it hits the clot, but the clot

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Speaker 7: sometimes breaks up and goes further and gets worse. This

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Speaker 7: millibot goes in and it eats the clot.

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Speaker 6: I don't even know. And it's used and it's by magnets.

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Speaker 4: And AI I feel like that's the most.

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Speaker 6: Done right, I don't know.

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Speaker 7: It's like a video game. And so I was doing

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Speaker 7: it and that was an astonishing thing. Stroke my stroke.

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Speaker 7: But think of you could be in a rural area

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Speaker 7: inject this thing in. Someone in a better doctor or

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Speaker 7: a more train doctor in Boston has already done the

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Speaker 7: program and already mapped this patient's brain instantly go in.

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Speaker 6: And get the stroke. Do you think how much money

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Speaker 6: do you save if you don't have damage from a stroke.

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Speaker 6: Same thing with m RNA.

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Speaker 7: Suffering us, of course, But I like to appeal to

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Speaker 7: people's money. I'm like, for sure in our country we

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Speaker 7: paid double thirteen thousand dollars a person versus six in every.

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Speaker 6: Other developed country.

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Speaker 7: So we're wasting money on bad, worse outcomes, and we're

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Speaker 7: more unhealthy than they are, or were very unhealthy actually,

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Speaker 7: And so like m RNA technology, another incredible technological leap,

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Speaker 7: And of course it's been politicized because of like ridiculous.

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Speaker 5: Mad it's the dumbest one, right well, politicizing m RNA vaccuits.

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Speaker 4: It's in a competitive.

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Speaker 7: Line for cancer vac scene, for HIV, all this stuff,

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Speaker 7: and now a lot of the I went and visited

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Speaker 7: the lab of a guy who won the Nobel Prize,

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Speaker 7: and he was like, everyone's leaving to go to Canada

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Speaker 7: or France or somewhere else. And we used to have

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Speaker 7: the most robust technological development, but technology moved slowly and

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Speaker 7: then now it's gotten politicize in a way that's problematic

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Speaker 7: and so on one level. One of the things he

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Speaker 7: said that was really striking to me is the next

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Speaker 7: time we have a pandemic, we're going to beg China

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Speaker 7: for vaccines.

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Speaker 6: That's that's how where we could get.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back with more immortality and Kara Swisher After

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Speaker 3: the break.

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Speaker 4: Parents, Swisher tell us about Brian Johnson.

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Speaker 6: Oh, Brian, he's really interesting. You know.

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Speaker 7: He's someone I've known because he had a technology company.

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Speaker 7: He sold around payments or whatever, one of the early

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Speaker 7: kind of startups that did really well, and he made

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Speaker 7: a fortune, a couple hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 4: I believe he used to be a fortune.

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Speaker 6: He used to be well, it was at.

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Speaker 7: The time we were all like, wow, that's a lot

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Speaker 7: of money. He ca to my conference, which I ran

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Speaker 7: a big technology coms. I often had presentations by interesting

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Speaker 7: cutting edge technology and I started to really get interested

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Speaker 7: in especially the health stuff, and he came to talk

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Speaker 7: about the brain and he was one of the earliest

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Speaker 7: people to talk about AI and what is where is

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Speaker 7: the human brain? And cognitive issues that were happening, and

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Speaker 7: I thought it was fascinating. And he himself had depression issues,

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Speaker 7: and he talked about that, how can we figure out

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Speaker 7: ways to mitigate depression? Really interesting talk. A couple of

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Speaker 7: years later, he shows up as this creature like who

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Speaker 7: has been like experimenting on himself.

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Speaker 1: People experience on social media.

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Speaker 3: He looks a little pale and vampiresh and he talks

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Speaker 3: a lot about what he's doing to stay alive forever.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, what he's doing to not die, which makes

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Speaker 3: a distinction.

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Speaker 6: He's being very cute about it.

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Speaker 7: You know, don't die, right, I got to go to

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Speaker 7: market copy.

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Speaker 6: It's good copy.

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Speaker 7: And so he measures everything in his erections at night,

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Speaker 7: his sleep, he does he tries things these if they work,

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Speaker 7: he was wrap my sin and then oh no, wait

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Speaker 7: a minute, it's a problem. Like he just does everything.

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Speaker 7: So he's an experiment unto himself, which.

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Speaker 1: Is not an experiment. That is not the way science work.

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Speaker 7: That is correct, it's going to help. How can Brian

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Speaker 7: Johnson live longer, not that it has nothing to do

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Speaker 7: with you or I.

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Speaker 5: And so if I mean, if he figures something out,

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Speaker 5: although to Robert's point, and if one isn't going to work.

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Speaker 6: It's not uh enough.

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Speaker 7: No, if he's not going to figure something out with

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Speaker 7: just him, you need these gold standard tests. And so

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Speaker 7: one of the things I put to him was, why

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Speaker 7: don't you just use your hundreds of millions of dollars

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Speaker 7: to help do more testing on stuff that's promising. Instead

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Speaker 7: he's doing, you know, trading blood between himself and his son,

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Speaker 7: and uh and it doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: For everyone, It doesn't work at all.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, let me just say.

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Speaker 7: And so I don't mind him doing it, but the

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Speaker 7: way he's doing it creates all this again misinformation online

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Speaker 7: and some of his stuff is very clear. It's like

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Speaker 7: take olive oil, great, good choice, Brian like, but then

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Speaker 7: the supplements always show up. Oh if you only drank

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Speaker 7: this and ate this and did this. And then it

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Speaker 7: gets into the hawking of like you know, any snake

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Speaker 7: oil salesman who's been you know, who used to just

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Speaker 7: go from town to town and sell all manner of you.

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Speaker 4: Don't have to go from town to town anymore. Now

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Speaker 4: you've got.

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Speaker 6: Instagram, right exactly.

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Speaker 7: And one of the things that really disturbed me, and

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Speaker 7: I already was writing about it in a more serious

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Speaker 7: way around it is semitism and hate and et cetera,

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Speaker 7: was the health stuff. And I started to see people

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Speaker 7: who had no business giving health information giving health information

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Speaker 7: out and no one regulates it. And again, if you're

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Speaker 7: on television, you can't do that, but on the Internet

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Speaker 7: you certainly can say, use this one pill and you'll

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Speaker 7: be fine. And it sort of is offensive to me

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Speaker 7: because it's actually dangerous.

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Speaker 4: I want to do another one from history.

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Speaker 5: Sure, I want to do Charles Edward Brown Secard no

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Speaker 5: doctor all right, famous legit doctor in France in the

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Speaker 5: late eighteen hundreds, had taught at Harvard. So in eighteen

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Speaker 5: eighty nine, when he was seventy two in decline, he

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Speaker 5: gave this talk in France where he said, I have

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Speaker 5: made an amazing to discovery. I'm stronger, I can work

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Speaker 5: longer hours and.

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Speaker 4: Close close, yeah, kind of close.

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Speaker 5: And my favorite of his discoveries he said, with my

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Speaker 5: new treatment, my urine stream is twenty five percent longer.

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Speaker 1: You know, Brian Johnson have loved that yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: His secret was grinding up the testicles of dogs and

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Speaker 5: guinea pigs and injecting it into himself.

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Speaker 6: Oh my god, it's too dangerous.

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Speaker 4: Sepsis painful. I mean, there is this obsession with sperm.

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Speaker 4: Basically for him, it was like, oh, it's the sperm

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Speaker 4: is what's doing?

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Speaker 6: Women hadn't noticed that with men.

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Speaker 5: Interesting and and kind of I thought of it when

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Speaker 5: you were talking about Brian Johnson and you know, and

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Speaker 5: and people selling things online, because this became this international sensation,

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Speaker 5: Like the doctors dismissed him, but in America people were

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Speaker 5: trying it. This kind of aging baseball player tried it

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Speaker 5: and then pitched a shutout and hit a double, and

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Speaker 5: people and all the newspapers.

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Speaker 6: You'll see how it works.

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Speaker 5: Right. And then, by the way, all these people are

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Speaker 5: getting poisoned by it, and they have deaths and lawsuits.

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Speaker 5: And I mean, I will say when I when I

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Speaker 5: read about this, I thought, well, maybe it's testosterone, Like

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Speaker 5: I don't know, you know, they hadn't identified testosterone yet,

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Speaker 5: but which.

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Speaker 6: Is in heavy use among men these days.

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Speaker 5: Indeed, No, they looked back and like there's not enough

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Speaker 5: testosterone in what they would have been injecting to matter,

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Speaker 5: so it was placebo.

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Speaker 4: It was painful.

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Speaker 6: Placibo right exactly.

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Speaker 7: I mean that's that's today. That's today. Is it nads?

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Speaker 7: Is it peptides?

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Speaker 6: Is it this? Oh no, it's red light.

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Speaker 7: And the problem is some of these things are hyperbaric chambers,

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Speaker 7: which I did.

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Speaker 4: How was it?

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Speaker 1: You look great?

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Speaker 6: By the way.

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Speaker 7: A lot of the early hyperbaric chamber stuff was done

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Speaker 7: at the Brooklyn Bridge and also in France when they're

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Speaker 7: building bridges, the workers would have to go down they

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Speaker 7: get the bends, and they were and there was a

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Speaker 7: lot of doctoring happening, figuring it out.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's where you actually need it to be clear

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Speaker 5: exactly at the bottom of it.

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Speaker 7: I did not have the bends, so it wasn't effective

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Speaker 7: for me. It's good in wound healing. It can be

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Speaker 7: properly used in a medical setting. But now people are like,

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Speaker 7: i flew to Europe or I flew to Asia and

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Speaker 7: I'm going to get in the hyperbaric chamber because more

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Speaker 7: oxygen has to be better than normal oxygen.

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Speaker 6: But it's not.

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Speaker 7: And it's also there's issues of blowing up. But that's

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Speaker 7: another issue. These things can actually explode, not good for luncheny,

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Speaker 7: not good for longevity. And so all these people are

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Speaker 7: selling them in these expensive, high end things as to

442
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 7: refresh you, and so I go and it doesn't refresh you.

443
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 7: It doesn't there's no science behind it. There is good

444
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 7: science around the bends and wound healing, and the same

445
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 7: thing with some of these injections of nads wound healing. Yes,

446
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 7: there's some really promising. There's incredible stuff happening around that,

447
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 7: these gels and all kinds of stuff, and instead they

448
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 7: have to make it a catch all for everything.

449
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 3: So I understand why people sell it, but I'm curious

450
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 3: why people buy it. I mean, I've thought about this,

451
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 3: and I think maybe people feel out of control in

452
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 3: their lives and the body is the one thing you

453
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 3: can control, and you have the right to control and

454
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 3: do whatever you want want, even if it's not scientific

455
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 3: or it can actually hurts you.

456
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 6: Well, look at the diet industry. Oh grapefruit, if you grayfruit?

457
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,239
Speaker 7: Oh wait, chicken broth, oh wait, if you eat this

458
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 7: like Scarsdale Divide.

459
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: I'm still on oat bran.

460
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 5: Are you.

461
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 6: With protein maxings?

462
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 8: Yeah?

463
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 7: Man, please stop, because you don't need that much. I

464
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 7: don't care what the fuck? Peter Audia says, you don't

465
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 7: need that much. He's wrong, He's wrong, He's actually wrong.

466
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,479
Speaker 7: You do need protein, that's for sure. But this idea

467
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 7: that you're going to be extra strong if you have

468
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 7: extra it's such an American thing, like more.

469
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 6: If this works, double will be better.

470
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 7: And I think there's a hope and a dream, just

471
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 7: like with religion, that if I only do this, then this.

472
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: And.

473
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 6: It's nothing more than con artists.

474
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 5: Let's talk about fitness, yea. Fitness is the one where

475
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 5: I think Silver Bullet is pushing it. Nothing of silver,

476
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 5: but it is amazing how good fitness is in how

477
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 5: many ways.

478
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 4: And I know you talk about.

479
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 6: It silver Browlin has to do with killing vampires, but

480
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 6: go ahead.

481
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 4: Oh yes, no, you tell me. So you talk about

482
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 4: fitness in the show, like what did you learn? What

483
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 4: did you do?

484
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 6: Look good?

485
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 7: Sleep is critically important, but you don't have to monitor

486
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 7: every fifty you know, I have.

487
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 6: I left it at home. I just don't care anymore.

488
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 6: I don't like it.

489
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 4: Doesn't or is it like not on brand now that

490
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 4: you're doing the show.

491
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 6: No, I like it.

492
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 7: I think I think it's interesting. I just don't need

493
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 7: that much information. It doesn't once it stops helping me.

494
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 7: I'm like, that's enough with that. It's interesting for sure,

495
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 7: but I didn't have the insights were smaller and smaller.

496
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 7: Although I like the r ring, I think it's exercise, okay,

497
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 7: exercises a making you absolutely. I did VO two max

498
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 7: and I think it's I think a lot of if

499
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 7: you can afford it, it's a really interesting piece of

500
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 7: information for you in terms of improving how your muscles

501
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 7: and heartwork together. Very interesting that you improve your score

502
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 7: that you do, especially cardiovascual exercise.

503
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 4: Yes, when you don't have to go do that test too.

504
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 7: Is just walk. The only reason I'm saying is because

505
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 7: you can do it on some of these devices. The

506
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 7: Aura and this and even the air pods is now

507
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 7: starting to take interesting numbers.

508
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 6: It's just more accurate, that's all. It's more accurate version.

509
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 7: And so one of the things is you exercise. I've

510
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 7: started running again and I feel great. But what you

511
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 7: have to do it is you do you say, go

512
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 7: to one ten than one twenty for a minute or

513
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 7: two then one thirty, but then you have to go

514
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 7: down to walk about your heart rate now, yes, you

515
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 7: have to bring it down, and that's the efficiency.

516
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 6: Of your heart. And that's you don't have to like

517
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 6: run until you vomit.

518
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 4: Like that's no.

519
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 5: In fact, running slower is better, correct, right, Like, like

520
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 5: I love to run, and it's hard for me. There's

521
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 5: this slow down kind of talent rudism about running. Is

522
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,719
Speaker 5: you go too slow on your fast days and too

523
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 5: fast on your slow days. Right, and most of your

524
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 5: days should be slow days. You should normally be running

525
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 5: so you can be like having a con.

526
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 6: Or a simple thing.

527
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 7: You know, what's a great thing to do? You eat

528
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 7: your dinner, you walk thirty minutes. My grandmother said that

529
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 7: it is incredibly good for your health to.

530
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: Get fighting diabetes right, to walk.

531
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 7: Right, all manner of things very simple costs.

532
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 6: You know how much it costs zero.

533
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 7: I'm sure they'll build something that you have to wear,

534
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 7: some weighted vests that will help you even more.

535
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 4: I have the way to die.

536
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 6: I have a lot of friends who wear it. Is fine, right,

537
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 6: It's expensive.

538
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 4: I looked into and it's excessive.

539
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 5: I want to do another history one because it's it's

540
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 5: one that I like. We've been talking about a lot

541
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 5: of sort of quackery and charlatanism. I love fitness weirdly,

542
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 5: and so Jack Lalaine amazing.

543
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 6: Amazing man, amazing man. Everything he says is accurate.

544
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, and his main thing is like exercise, right, So

545
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 5: he comes up in the thirties, nineteen thirties basically kind

546
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 5: of starts the first health club, and doctors at that

547
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 5: time are anti weightlifting. There's this term muscle bound where

548
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 5: they say, like, if you lift weights, you won't be

549
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 5: able to move well, they say, I'll give you a

550
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 5: heart attack. Wrong, they were wrong. And then he has

551
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 5: a TV show in the fifties. I remember when TV

552
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 5: was just free, right, and I'll say like, hey, kids,

553
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 5: go get your parents, and he'll do like things with

554
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 5: like a broomstick, you know. And this is probably pushing

555
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 5: it too far, But as I was thinking about this

556
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 5: in the context of talking to you, you know, I

557
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 5: was thinking, like, we've been talking a fair bit about

558
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 5: things from the a eighteen hundreds early nine hundreds guilded age,

559
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 5: which is an age that is like today, technological change,

560
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 5: vast new wealth, new communications technologies, inequality. Jaqueline is mid

561
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 5: century America in nineteen fifties sixties. That's peak jackul'line era.

562
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 5: That is the opposite. That is the era of compressing

563
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 5: declining inequality, of rising equality of the rising middle class.

564
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: And I love Jack Lolaine as the emblem of that.

565
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 7: He's amazing and its outfit was wonderful that ran out anymore.

566
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 7: I think one of the things he was doing is

567
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 7: he was talking about basics strength training kalistan X is

568
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 7: the word where they would need that very simple stuff

569
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 7: that you didn't need to spend money on, just get

570
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 7: up and move. And so with exercise, strength training is critical,

571
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 7: especially as you owner balance training, but.

572
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 6: Not you don't have to buy all the crap it's literally.

573
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 7: And so one of the things he was doing is

574
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 7: he was simplifying for everyone. And one of the things

575
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 7: I was trying to get through is that there's all

576
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 7: manner of things everybody can do. And again, sleeps another thing.

577
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 7: Do you need to monitor it so much? There's all

578
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 7: stuff you can put on your head or a chill

579
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 7: pad or this and that you could also open a window.

580
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 6: It's good, it's good. Yeah, yeah, surprising you have any tips.

581
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 5: I have the middle aged phenomenon of waking up in

582
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 5: the middle wake up.

583
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 6: More than I used to. But that's a phenomenon of

584
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 6: age that's all it is.

585
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: We should have just done this at four in the morning.

586
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it would have been great.

587
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 6: I never used to wake up. I wake up now

588
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 6: twice a night and I go back to sleep.

589
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 7: But you know, there's all people who have real sleep problems,

590
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 7: and there are there's all kinds of interesting science.

591
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 4: The fancy equinox sleep.

592
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 6: I didtel that's an interesting guy.

593
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 7: He's changed a lot, some of his attitudes and stuff.

594
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 7: But like, like, it's what they do is they bring

595
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 7: the temperature down.

596
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 6: That's absolutely true.

597
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 7: They close the shades, you know, or they have these

598
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 7: softer than extra sheets, this thing on your head that

599
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 7: monitors you. You just need to be in a quiet place,

600
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 7: go to sleep, and put down your fucking phone. It's

601
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 7: not it's not really.

602
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 3: As not as technology can actually, I think make it worse.

603
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 3: I had a bit they told me my sleep, yeah,

604
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 3: and when I would wake up in the middle of

605
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 3: the night, I would lay there thinking, oh, no, my number.

606
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 4: Would you realize that such a cliche would.

607
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 3: Be like no my number, Like this is going to

608
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 3: hurt my number because I'm trying to break ninety and

609
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, this is gonna and then I'm going

610
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 3: to get.

611
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 7: A B plus thing I had when I had my

612
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 7: ordering on. I was going to work today, But I

613
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,479
Speaker 7: actually don't get information I need from it.

614
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 6: That's why.

615
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 7: And I happen to like the guy who guys you

616
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 7: run That is Zeke Emanuel who's in the documentary later,

617
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 7: and he was talking about the importance of social connections,

618
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 7: which are scientifically proven and also in all manner ways.

619
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 7: And he said, and I was wearing the or ring

620
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 7: and I go, He goes, why do you wear that?

621
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 7: And I go, well, it's interesting. It's interesting numbers whether

622
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 7: I sup well, and he goes, don't.

623
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 6: You know that when you wake up? And I'm like,

624
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 6: I do, I do, sir?

625
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 3: Feel if I forget to check the number, it meant

626
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 3: I had a great night sleep.

627
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 6: Right right, So anyway, that's what I was getting to.

628
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 10: Let's take another break, okay, when our program continues.

629
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 5: So you talked some in the show about how wellness

630
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 5: is marketed to women.

631
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 4: Tell me about that.

632
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 7: Well, actually it's being market a lot to men now,

633
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 7: which is really interesting. And especially these wellness I call

634
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 7: them grifters wellness grifters.

635
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 4: There is a different word for men, right, It's like tactical,

636
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 4: no let me tell you.

637
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 7: Let me give you an explanation of the I can

638
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 7: explain all of gender issues. When women do things around

639
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 7: food and health or or diets or whatever, they have

640
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 7: body dysmorphia. When men do it, it's body hacking, like

641
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 7: give me a.

642
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 4: Break, you morphia.

643
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 7: You know what's interesting is it is marketed women that

644
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 7: tend to be around skin and things like that. But

645
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 7: men are getting into it much much more. And you know,

646
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 7: you have these influencers like Peter Attilla or Andrew huber

647
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 7: Men and a lot of it is again selling stuff.

648
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 7: They all have supplements, they all have bars, they all

649
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 7: have this and that, and it's so narcissistic. And that's

650
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 7: what drives me crazy about all of it. It's not

651
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 7: about better health. It's about better you as opposed to

652
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 7: everybody else.

653
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 4: Tell me about Sam Altman's longevity startup.

654
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 7: Well, he's doing a lot of stuff about extension, life extension,

655
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 7: and there is significantly good science around where we're going

656
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 7: with AI and cancer detection, as I said, or drug

657
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 7: discovery and stuff like that. And so some of the

658
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 7: things is what are some of the things we can

659
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 7: study in a scientific way that will move us forward?

660
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 7: And I am all for that kind of stuff, and

661
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 7: he's less on the living forever. It's more, how do

662
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 7: you have a healthier health span over a lifespan? Because

663
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 7: right now our lifespan as a whole is fifteen years

664
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 7: longer than our health span.

665
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 5: Right, So how do you have people who are eighty

666
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 5: five years old and fine?

667
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 6: Correct?

668
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 7: How do you bring those numbers as close together as

669
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 7: possible because you spend we're in a sick care system,

670
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 7: not a healthcare system.

671
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 4: And it's terrible to be that person, right, it's terrible

672
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 4: to have fish.

673
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 7: All the money is over here and it's not in

674
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 7: the preventative area. So he's working on the prevented area.

675
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 7: I'm fine with.

676
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 6: That's that's really important.

677
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 7: The question is with AI, they always promise, whether they're

678
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 7: doing all manner of unpleasant things. They're promising all these

679
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 7: we're going to solve cancer and by the way, we're

680
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 7: taking all your information so we can sell you shit to.

681
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 4: Me that the cancer cure without right, but they are.

682
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 6: Using it as a marketing item versus a real thing.

683
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 5: Well, it can be both right, to be clear, that's

684
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,479
Speaker 5: what I would seems to be both right.

685
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 7: There's some astonishing things happening in cancer research. Because of that,

686
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 7: you know, deep Mind was working on gene folding. There's crisper,

687
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 7: there's there's just so much great stuff. And what it

688
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 7: is again is it's it's drowned out. But this idea

689
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 7: that we will solve cancer. I'm like, we actually will

690
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 7: solve cancer. It's just a question if we have a

691
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 7: commitment and science takes longer then tech wants it to take.

692
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: So one more history story.

693
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: This is the Cryonics Society in California, nineteen sixties.

694
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 6: I stayed out of that. I thought about it.

695
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

696
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 3: So this was a bunch of This was a bunch

697
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 3: of amateurs in the nineteen sixties who were thinking, well, yes,

698
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: we will cure cancer someday, but not now. So what

699
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: if right before, right after death, we put people on

700
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: ice and we keep them frozen until there is a cure.

701
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: It was led by a guy named Bob Nelson, a

702
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: TV repairman, and these were not scientists, and they found

703
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 3: the very first volunteer to be frozen, James Bedford. He

704
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,719
Speaker 3: was a psychology professor and he was dying of cancer,

705
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 3: and in fact did die of cancer. But I should

706
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 3: say that right before he died. His final words were

707
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: I'm feeling better. Then he dies and the Cryonic Society

708
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: covers him in ice that they had gotten from like

709
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: neighboors freezers. This was not scientific. They eventually, you know,

710
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 3: put him in a tube.

711
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: They did this to many people.

712
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 6: I like this whole thing, but the problem was they

713
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 6: didn't think it out.

714
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 3: They didn't think like, if you are going to preserve

715
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 3: someone for decades centuries, who's going to pay for it?

716
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 3: How are you going to take care of these things?

717
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 3: They had a bunch of people frozen in tubes in

718
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: a cave. I guess it was sort of a cave,

719
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 3: and then they ran out of money and then they

720
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: just sort of unplugged them and they.

721
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 6: This is a plot of Captain America.

722
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: But go ahead, well, James Bedford that that first guy

723
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: they froze stayed frozen and is now with a company

724
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 3: called Alcore. I think it's Alcore in Arizona, and so

725
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: he's in liquid nitrogen.

726
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: They don't know.

727
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: They think he's in good condition. There's other people frozen

728
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 3: in Alcore.

729
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: But I guess my.

730
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 3: Thought was, now, what, there's no there's no decision about

731
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: how to pay for it, how long how do we

732
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: know when to wake him, how do we know how

733
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: to wake him?

734
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: We don't know any of these things.

735
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 5: People they have a thing about saying whether he's dead

736
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 5: or not?

737
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: Right, isn't that part of the like gayn.

738
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 9: Sure?

739
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 6: And I'm telling you I thought about it, and then

740
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 6: I too, you know, you know, I fully think someday

741
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 6: we're going to print our livers, They're going to have

742
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 6: there's all manner of stuff.

743
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 7: I do think we will figure out a way to

744
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 7: create all manner of things. And I think that is

745
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 7: possible and not yet. And of course, one of the

746
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 7: things that's the problem with the tech people. You're often saying,

747
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 7: you know, actually, and I'm thinking remembering Elizabeth Holmes with

748
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 7: the with the Vile of blood, the thing that we

749
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 7: do all these tests there and all these tech people

750
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 7: were totally enamored with her, handed her piles and piles

751
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 7: of money, and she always wanted to come to my

752
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 7: conferences and stuff. And I and I went to my brother,

753
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 7: I'm like, what do you think. He goes, bullshit, you

754
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 7: cannot do this. It's not in the realm of physics.

755
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 7: You can't do it. It's biology doesn't work like this.

756
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 7: And he said, she's.

757
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 6: A con artist to me, and I said okay, and

758
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 6: I went back to her.

759
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 7: I said, I don't really understand what you're doing, and

760
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 7: I don't believe you, and I don't have enough knowledge

761
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 7: to disabuse you, so I'm going to pass kind of stuff.

762
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 7: And so it was what was really interesting was so

763
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 7: many people were like because the idea of it's great,

764
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 7: like wow, and I bet someday we will be able.

765
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 4: To just takes a long time. Correct.

766
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 5: Have you heard the term Room's law, No more's los

767
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 5: spelled backwards? Because in drug development, it gets slower and

768
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 5: more expensive over.

769
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 6: Time, exactly as it should. By the way, what if.

770
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: We give up on the whole having the body live

771
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 3: forever and just upload our mind?

772
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: Who's doing that? Who's doing that?

773
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 6: In people?

774
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 4: Singularity?

775
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 7: Singularity, Well, it's a version of that. Yeah, that's the

776
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 7: body becomes a robot. And you know, actually, Elon Musk

777
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 7: and I had a great conversation once of a science

778
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 7: fiction thing called made of Meat and these aliens who

779
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 7: are all light and energy that they talk to each other,

780
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 7: come down and they can't believe we are made of

781
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 7: meat and we talk through our meat holes, which are

782
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 7: mouths and they're like, they have meat, why.

783
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 6: Are they using meat to communicate? And everything. It was

784
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 6: a great it's a great story. It's a it's a

785
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 6: radio play.

786
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 7: And so the idea that you could continue ever, forever

787
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 7: is a big thing that illuminates a lot of tech

788
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 7: people that you could download your brain. Now, the brain,

789
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 7: let me just say, is the most beautiful instrument. A

790
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 7: computer wishes it were like a brain. A brain is astonishing.

791
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 7: It's an astonishing piece and it's not technology, it's something else.

792
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 7: And we still have never plumbed the real depths of

793
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 7: all that's going on there. And it's the kind of connections.

794
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 7: Just for me to pick up this phone is an

795
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 7: astonishing thing. And so one of the things they are

796
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 7: enamerative is downloading everyone's consciousness into the whatever. A lot

797
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 7: of it was early to talk to Holocaust survivors in

798
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 7: order to get their stories, and then you're in a

799
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 7: museum you could talk to a real Holocaust survivor who's

800
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 7: no longer living, and I think that's a beautiful use

801
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 7: of the technology. But you could also create and I

802
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 7: created a caratar which was me, and this strives because

803
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 7: of AI are much different you used to be they

804
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 7: would say something and have a number of responses. Now

805
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 7: the avatar can think by itself or or use all

806
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 7: these patterns and all this information to create new conversations

807
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 7: that I never said generative exactly, and so it wasn't

808
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 7: me And so I started to have a conversation with it.

809
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 6: And it was really interesting is how much it started

810
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 6: to really have a conversation.

811
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 4: And it was funnier. You were the avatar.

812
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 6: Well, there's a point where I'm like, can you tell

813
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 6: a joke? Could you smile more like?

814
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 7: And then you told you it's my avatar can whatever

815
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 7: I want. What was really interesting is I said, you're

816
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 7: not really funny, and then it told quite a good joke.

817
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 6: And I was like, okay, that was that was good.

818
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 6: That reflects on you or the avatar.

819
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 7: But what was interesting is we were talking about I said,

820
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 7: but I don't think you exist because you don't have empathy,

821
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 7: and they were like, no, I don't, I don't have empathy.

822
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 3: And but I'm glad your avatar exists just in case

823
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 3: Elon Musk lives forever. Yes, there's also a version of

824
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 3: you who can irritate him forever.

825
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, this avatar needs to be one hundred percent more irritating.

826
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 6: I'm going to work on that.

827
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 5: So we've been spending this conversation talking about people avoiding

828
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 5: death or trying to avoid that. But let's talk about that.

829
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 5: I mean, you didn't talk about death in the show.

830
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 5: You talk about how it's been present in your life

831
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 5: since you were a girl.

832
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 7: Yes, tell me about your Well, my dad died when

833
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 7: he was thirty four. He's starting his life, three kids.

834
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 7: He had come out of not poverty, but you know,

835
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 7: he went to the Navy in order to pay for

836
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 7: medical school and college and he had just gotten out

837
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 7: and he had a cerebral hemorrhage essentially, and.

838
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 6: He died and that was it.

839
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 7: And so my brother's and I since everything's been informed

840
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 7: by the idea that you could die at any time.

841
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 7: And I think one of the things that has helped us,

842
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 7: and it helped Steve Jobs too, was in terms of

843
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 7: his illness, you have a limited amount of time on

844
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 7: this planet.

845
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 6: What are you going to do with it?

846
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 7: And I think it can be very inspirational. And in fact,

847
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 7: that went and found a professor who's at Skidmore who's

848
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 7: talking about the idea of death acceptance and Buddhism knows

849
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 7: this already. A lot of world religions know this. The

850
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 7: more you accept death, the longer you live, the happier

851
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 7: you are, the healthier you are. Those that avoid death

852
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 7: or death avoidance, polarity, hatefulness towards others, anger, fear, and

853
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 7: it motive. It creates a really problematic society when you

854
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 7: pretend you try to stave off death. And the Steve

855
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 7: Jobs inspiration was he talked about that death is the

856
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 7: single greatest motivator of innovation and creativity because it makes

857
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 7: you understand that you're naked, it doesn't matter, like you're

858
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 7: not going to be here, and you know, I use

859
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 7: quotes like Ben Franklin said it death takes no bribes,

860
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 7: you know, And so they had a more full life

861
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 7: because they understood that it ends.

862
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 3: The Stoics talked about this, I remind yourself that you

863
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 3: will die every day.

864
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 7: Marcus Erelius always talks about death, but he's not obsessed

865
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 7: with it.

866
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 6: He's aware of it.

867
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 7: Death awareness is critically important to a healthy and happy life.

868
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 7: And one of the things that was really interesting the

869
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 7: Heart Way went and visit a Harvard Happiness study. People

870
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 7: which have been doing with groups of people for almost

871
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 7: seventy years or something like that. Is friends and family

872
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 7: and meaning in your life in some fashion is what

873
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 7: creates longevity. And the people that were isolated and let

874
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 7: me finish on technology. Nothing could be worse for us

875
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 7: than having chat bought relationships, the lack of friction, the

876
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 7: sycophants part of it. You need to have human beings

877
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 7: in your life in order to live longer. That is,

878
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 7: if someone said, what are the two things you could do?

879
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 7: Don't be poor and have friends and family and try

880
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 7: new things. It creates a longer, happier life, and it's

881
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 7: scientifically proven and it doesn't cost anything.

882
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 4: And exercise.

883
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 6: Yes, but don't have a relationship with the chap.

884
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 7: I don't do it. It's not going to be better

885
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 7: for you. Don't have a relationship with this phone. This

886
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 7: phone will live after you. By the way, what's not

887
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 7: going to live longer is these relationships that keep you

888
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 7: healthier and happier as you move on.

889
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 6: And you should move on.

890
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 7: And the last thing I say, I ask everyone I

891
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 7: interviewed how they want to die. So I'm going to

892
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 7: ask you, guys, how do you want.

893
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 4: To die quickly? The answer is quickly.

894
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 6: Really okay, yeah, okay, like not now, all right, But.

895
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 4: When it happens, I want it to be fast. I

896
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 4: want to be old, and I want it to be fast.

897
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 6: Really because it's the most interesting moment of your life.

898
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 6: You couldn't remember your birth.

899
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 4: This is your I'm not going to remember my death.

900
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,479
Speaker 6: But it's so interesting. It's supposed to be best because it's.

901
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 4: Last, is it?

902
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 5: Like I actually am skeptical people talk about that. I

903
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 5: don't know people's death dead. You know wisdom as wisdom.

904
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 5: It's obvious to me that someone is wiser.

905
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 6: Because I'm sorry to shame you. You could die. You want

906
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean, I want.

907
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 3: I want to be surrounded by my family and the

908
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 3: Cryonic Society of California.

909
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly, that bag of ice from seven to eleven

910
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 7: to cover you.

911
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 6: Right.

912
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 7: The best, the best answer I ever got was this

913
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 7: woman who is a twin, who was a twin, said,

914
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 7: my twin and I have thought.

915
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 6: About it a lot. O people have thought about a lot.

916
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 6: Some people have not. And she goes, my twin and

917
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 6: I want to be shot out of a cannon and

918
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 6: shoot each other.

919
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 4: Wow.

920
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 6: I was like, oh, all right.

921
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 7: And one guy was like this preacher who's amazing in DC.

922
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 7: And he said, when I die, I want my mom

923
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 7: to meet me, and we want to watch Phil donnahu

924
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 7: together for eternity because that's what I used to do.

925
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 7: And I go and guess what, Phil Donna, you will

926
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 7: be there, so you'll be able to hang out with

927
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 7: Phil Donna give.

928
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 4: You the mind you'll get.

929
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 7: The people have the most fascinating answers quest was, and

930
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 7: they're very happy to answer. At first they're like and

931
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 7: then they're like, oh, I hadn't thought of that.

932
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 4: Okay, last line, And how do you want to die?

933
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 6: I talk about it in the series. You're gonna have

934
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 6: to wait.

935
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 4: Oh no, I have a new.

936
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 6: One that I just I change all the time.

937
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 7: One is throwing in the fit, get cremated, thrown in

938
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 7: the face of people I don't like, And.

939
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 4: That's what after you die.

940
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 6: Yes, but people answer differently. You don't.

941
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 7: Sometimes it's how they want to have a funeral. Sometimes

942
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 7: it's how they want to die. I just I don't

943
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 7: I leave it wide open. Steve Jobs, when he died,

944
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 7: his sister wrote a beautiful piece about the moment he died,

945
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 7: and he looked up and he said, wow, Wow, which

946
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 7: I think he stage managed that, like you know what

947
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 7: I mean, and you're like, what exactly? It was perfect

948
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 7: death for him. For me, I'm kind of kind of

949
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 7: a I make. I'm kind of a troublemaker, and I

950
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 7: want to go. I'm sitting there all my friends and family,

951
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 7: I have a lot of kids. Everybody's there, and I go, oh,

952
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 7: you're kidding, and then die.

953
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 6: I can't believe this.

954
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 5: So here's my favorite last words. And I don't know

955
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 5: if it's true, yeah, but it's uh Suzuki Shanrio Suzuki,

956
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 5: you know, the zen master who brought in to America. Basically,

957
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 5: his last words apparently were thank you, which for me

958
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 5: is perfect, and.

959
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 4: So I will say that to you right now.

960
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you very much, thank you.

961
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming.

962
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 5: That was a very special episode of Business History, a

963
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 5: show about that day of business. We learned a lot

964
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 5: with Kara Swisher and if you're listening on audio, she

965
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 5: was wearing the sunglasses. You can see our show on YouTube.

966
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 5: The video is edited by Matt Nielsen. Our showrunner and

967
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 5: editor is Ryan Dilley, our producer is Gabriel Hunter Chang,

968
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 5: and our engineer.

969
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 4: Is Sarah Bruger.

970
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.

971
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 4: You're Robert Smith and I'm Jacob Goldstein. I will be

972
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 4: back next week with more about this year of business