Speaker 1: Wine Down with Janna Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 1: Do you guys know what my name spells? Backwards? God?
Speaker 1: Damn the schools falling? Hold on a second, are you
Speaker 1: going to say? Why are you laughing? No? Try it again,
Speaker 1: right out right out, Jana, right now, Like, but don't
Speaker 1: do don't do this, don't do this, swoop with the j,
Speaker 1: do a straight with the j. Okay, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: really spell you're implying that it spells anal backwards. It
Speaker 1: looks like it. Yeah, everyone has been sending me like,
Speaker 1: look at your name backwards Anal, And I'm like, I've
Speaker 1: had a name for thirty eight years. I'm well aware
Speaker 1: that my name spells anal. I would have never thought.
Speaker 1: I just it's that thing going around with the balloons. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like I see, like the actual mirror image of
Speaker 1: it is like behind Yeah, yeah, yeah, got it well.
Speaker 1: Speaking as a cram, I mean, you know it can
Speaker 1: always be worse, right dead joked. Did you have any
Speaker 1: nicknames growing up? I mean when I was a little older,
Speaker 1: people called me Kathy because I hated it, Kathy because
Speaker 1: I hate it. So my college friends called me Kathy,
Speaker 1: but now just cat. Joli about it wof not that
Speaker 1: that's bad. Sorry, Kathyr but not no, But I mean
Speaker 1: I have Kathy, like I know, older Kathy. I just
Speaker 1: don't seem like Kathy. Well, like you're young, right, it
Speaker 1: sounds like an old name. But also Katherine and are
Speaker 1: two different names for sure. That's like when my friend
Speaker 1: used to call me Jane and I'm like, my name
Speaker 1: is Janna. That's a completely different Jan. I'm not six
Speaker 1: years old, you know, Like, but it's the same thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Kathy and Jane are both both are both boomer names. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: my mom is Kathy seven. He said, hold up here,
Speaker 1: Karen's like, no one would need their baby now, Kathy,
Speaker 1: I mean if you did. And I'm sorry, but I
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think anyone would name their baby Cathy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I imagine maybe, Like I mean, people name
Speaker 1: like Nora. My mom's name is Nora, but like Kathy, like,
Speaker 1: what's your baby's name, Kathy, Like I just like I
Speaker 1: don't see that. I don't know maybe not no, And
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by that. I'm fascinated by the cyclical nature
Speaker 1: of names. Like I'm Mark, my wife is Amy. There
Speaker 1: are no baby marks. There are no baby amies right now,
Speaker 1: like zero, not happening. What you think Mark's a biblical name,
Speaker 1: you think could be like always popular, but nope, cycles
Speaker 1: just like everything else. And I feel like, in you
Speaker 1: know what, fifty years, all the old folks homes are
Speaker 1: going to be full of Ashley's and Brittany weird. That's
Speaker 1: so true, and then our kids are gonna be like,
Speaker 1: like you would actually name your son Ashley like or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's such an old person name. And it's like speaking of,
Speaker 1: how much would it suck to have your name Karen
Speaker 1: right now? Oh? Bad? That would be awful. Sorry, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's amazing, amazing, point it would change my name, that'd
Speaker 1: be really Yeah, sorry, Karen's that sucks, especially if you're
Speaker 1: not a Karen. But if you're a Karen, you're a Karen.
Speaker 1: But most Karen's names aren't Karen. What do you mean, Like,
Speaker 1: most actual Karens are not their names not Karen unless
Speaker 1: you get real lucky. Yeah. I liked having like I
Speaker 1: liked being the only Jan in school. Yeah, like it
Speaker 1: was unique for sure. Yeah, and the Katherine's unique at all.
Speaker 1: I didn't know any Katherine's really, I don't think so
Speaker 1: you didn't get that. How do you spell it? I mean,
Speaker 1: like you know, it's like I mean j J N A. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do people not know how to splay
Speaker 1: your name? Yeah? No, you have like three million. I
Speaker 1: actually don't want Katherine time out. Everybody is anyone watching
Speaker 1: The Bachelor? I heard he's I heard he's like, so,
Speaker 1: I was hearing some rumors about how he was talking
Speaker 1: to Um Susie said her name, yes, and I watched
Speaker 1: back a clip. I was like, how did they even
Speaker 1: air that? What was he doing? Gaslighting the hell out
Speaker 1: of her? Like totally not even like and then Nick
Speaker 1: Vile came back as it wasn't gaslighting, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: like cool. But in my opinion, I'm like, dude, that
Speaker 1: was gaslighting. And then the funniest thing was maybe I'm
Speaker 1: just like whatever with it. But so I I was
Speaker 1: talking to actually, I'll tell you afterwards, Um, and the
Speaker 1: headline was the Bachelor Clinton doesn't think he gaslet Susie.
Speaker 1: I understand that it appears that way, Like that's also
Speaker 1: a very gaslighting comment. I understand that it appears that way. No,
Speaker 1: it actually was that way, Like there's no way like
Speaker 1: to edit out how he was like he didn't even
Speaker 1: like he just totally disregarded everything. She was saying, Um,
Speaker 1: East and uron do you agree or disagree? Well, I
Speaker 1: just want to say one of ourther if I and
Speaker 1: I heard radio podcast, the Almost Famous Podcast, interviewed Clayton
Speaker 1: That's that's the one I've got the quote from from
Speaker 1: yeah and actually yeah. I asked him if he was
Speaker 1: gaslighting and he said, He's like, well, no, because I
Speaker 1: looked at the definition of gaslighting and that means that
Speaker 1: you're doing something with nefarious purposes and I did not
Speaker 1: do that, So therefore it is not gaslighting narcissist because
Speaker 1: there intentional and non intentional gaslighting. Yeah, I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, it doesn't you're doing it now to me,
Speaker 1: you know, But I'm like so like in my mind
Speaker 1: then I go, okay, I know this is these are
Speaker 1: all like you know, and even our therapist jokes about this.
Speaker 1: She's like, it's these are very big words gas lighting, narcissists,
Speaker 1: like they're they're overused like crazy right now. But I
Speaker 1: also think we're understanding the definition of them, and to me,
Speaker 1: it seems like he's if he's not even acknowledging that
Speaker 1: like those were gaslighting comments and that he didn't even
Speaker 1: like she was expressing her feelings, her thoughts, her emotions
Speaker 1: and he just did not even like see them to
Speaker 1: me again, which shows that he's not very empathetic at all.
Speaker 1: And then to go on y'all's podcast and say that
Speaker 1: it's like to me, he's just like, it's like he's
Speaker 1: set in his own ways. I mean, he might, you know,
Speaker 1: be checking off some major narcissist box. There's there too,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, you have Catherine the full background here,
Speaker 1: because she was saying to him, because he's the final
Speaker 1: three now, all right, and that's when they do the
Speaker 1: fantasy sweets, right, she spend the night with each of them,
Speaker 1: so she was the third of the fantasy sweets. And
Speaker 1: soon as he said to him, hold up, you know,
Speaker 1: the first two were like, let's get it on. Let's
Speaker 1: get it on, so you like, hold up, did you
Speaker 1: sleep with the other two? He's like, uh, yeah, And
Speaker 1: she's saying I have a problem with that. He's saying, what,
Speaker 1: you're a problem with me sleeping with other women? If
Speaker 1: I had known that was going to be a problem
Speaker 1: for you, I might have thought about this differently. So
Speaker 1: that's the that's the the idea of pretending that she
Speaker 1: wouldn't care that you slept with two other people within
Speaker 1: the past week is the most offensive part of it.
Speaker 1: I think, Wait, they aired all of this. First of all,
Speaker 1: well he didn't are any graphic love making, but but no,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying that respond his They aired all of his,
Speaker 1: like his how he how he talked back to her,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, if if any any like good yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly would be like I could totally understand how that
Speaker 1: would upset you. You know, this is the unfortunate part
Speaker 1: they were down to and you know, like I mean,
Speaker 1: just completely turned it around on her. One sal in
Speaker 1: person made her feel like the crazy one, which is
Speaker 1: also gas lighting. I'm sorry you made her feel crazy.
Speaker 1: She she didn't say that, but you made her feel
Speaker 1: crazy to have that feeling. That is the definition of
Speaker 1: gas lighting. Sorry, it is you were making that person
Speaker 1: feel crazy. You did not validate at all, You didn't
Speaker 1: even like yeah. And then Caitlin Bristo goes you know,
Speaker 1: she she goes on to say, like I saw her
Speaker 1: comment about how well, you know, when it goes down
Speaker 1: to that, that's fine. You can have you know, like
Speaker 1: for me to like, I would want to have sex
Speaker 1: with them because I want to know that everyone's like
Speaker 1: everything's working down there, you know. But if I was
Speaker 1: in the opposite, I wouldn't, And if I was in
Speaker 1: Susie's position, I would be upset. I get, I get
Speaker 1: how that is totally hypocritical and totally not fair. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's just about being able to have your feeling,
Speaker 1: whether whichever way it is. Yes, also agreed, you can
Speaker 1: have an opinion and not be Yeah, okay, yeah, so
Speaker 1: the fact that I mean, yes, it's the Bachelor world, right,
Speaker 1: the Bachelor is different than real life. Yes, whatever she's
Speaker 1: feeling is invalidable. Yeah, it doesn't matter what And that's
Speaker 1: okay for her to that is totally normal for her
Speaker 1: to feel that way. And the fact that he reacted
Speaker 1: in that way is just so wrong. And I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not a fan at all because he doesn't
Speaker 1: because he doesn't acknowledge it. That's the thing. He doesn't
Speaker 1: acknowledge it, and how he's handled it. Still like that
Speaker 1: had a chance to come back and say, yeah, he
Speaker 1: had a chance to go on one of the biggest
Speaker 1: I heard podcasts with Benn and Ashley. You know, like
Speaker 1: he's still and he's still defended. I could see how
Speaker 1: it seems that way. No, there's no seems there's no
Speaker 1: kind of it is how it was. Okay, So he
Speaker 1: said he's the one that then came back and said,
Speaker 1: I can see how it seems that way. Wow, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's pretty bad. He should have said. I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: said that period. Yeah, and I should have acknowledged for
Speaker 1: feeling I like the idea of the day I proposed
Speaker 1: to my wife. I said, Okay, so here's the I
Speaker 1: slept with a couple other women this week, and now
Speaker 1: I've decided you're the winner. Congratulations. I know what I know.
Speaker 1: Now I know for sure it's you, Like, how is this?
Speaker 1: How is that life? Like? I just I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the fan poward to you. But now it's just
Speaker 1: not my it's not my jam. It is very hypocritical
Speaker 1: though of me. Huh. So you're saying it's hypocritical because
Speaker 1: you would want to sleep with them to make sure
Speaker 1: things were working out down there. But what is the
Speaker 1: other side, Why are you being a hypocrite because I
Speaker 1: wouldn't want him to do the same. Oh, yeah. No, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's hypocritical. I am voting it. It's funny. I would
Speaker 1: be like, choose, just choose me, Just choose me. You
Speaker 1: don't need to sleep the women choose me. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: that's um. They can never make it on the Bachelor
Speaker 1: or Bachelor or whatever. I wouldn't make it on either
Speaker 1: one of them. Yeah, there's no way. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I I just I don't. I don't. I just I
Speaker 1: really just don't like how he's handled. Yeah, it's unfortunate
Speaker 1: backlash of what he deserves. Honestly, No, I'm saying I
Speaker 1: shouldn't say what he deserves. It's what I just don't
Speaker 1: like the backlash and how he's handled. I just don't like.
Speaker 1: I just it just feels it feels very familiar. And
Speaker 1: I don't like that he's not owning and apologizing. He's
Speaker 1: not owning anything or apologizing. And I just don't unless
Speaker 1: because that's not fair for Susie at all. And I
Speaker 1: hope she becomes a bat short and Mary is an
Speaker 1: amazing man. Oh she probably won't be. Props to the
Speaker 1: Bachelor though. This season was very quiet and now everybody's
Speaker 1: talking about the Bachelor, so hey, they know what they're
Speaker 1: doing over there, you know, at the expense of the
Speaker 1: kind of person you're going to be. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. That's hard. I see your point, Mark, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I mean, go Susan's all I
Speaker 1: have to say. I don't I don't like him. If
Speaker 1: he wants to be friends with someone, I have someone
Speaker 1: he can be friends with, so they might get along. Um,
Speaker 1: Mark Scratch has had on that one. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that was. Don't worry about you're trying to hook
Speaker 1: up Clayton with another guy friend. I know friends where
Speaker 1: you're going, they'd be buddies. Yeah, they could grow up, Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally braw and not apologize for they did. So, Oh
Speaker 1: it's good. We're about to have Gabby Bernstein and she's
Speaker 1: going to school us and make our lives better. So
Speaker 1: stake a break and get her on. Oh Happy and day,
Speaker 1: Oh happy day. When Jesus why why, that's why I
Speaker 1: start singing it. I was like, why am I singing
Speaker 1: happy days? Well, because Gabby Bernstein's book is called Happy Days?
Speaker 1: How are you guys doing? You know what? Good? We
Speaker 1: both had therapy today, so that was love therapy today too.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna. We all had therapy today. I kind of
Speaker 1: love that because we're all in a nice clear mental
Speaker 1: today was like my, I don't know you all therapy
Speaker 1: session was we can all go around. We're on the room.
Speaker 1: Mine which is mine is later later? Okay, well you
Speaker 1: can say what you're bringing to therapy if you want,
Speaker 1: but no, I Mine was like I just needed to
Speaker 1: like own a bunch of stuff today to my therapist.
Speaker 1: You know yeah got that. It feel good? Yeah, it
Speaker 1: feels great because she goes you know what She's like.
Speaker 1: Not many people can actually come into therapy and tell
Speaker 1: like the full truth. So I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: think I told my therapist the truth for for like
Speaker 1: a decade, right, same, I was like, she's the She's
Speaker 1: the first therapist that I've ever been honest with. I've
Speaker 1: always like I've always been like teetering on, Like it's
Speaker 1: just I would leave out something or I wouldn't say,
Speaker 1: well yeah I actually did do I did cheat on
Speaker 1: that first or yeah you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: I've always like teetered on like telling the truth because
Speaker 1: you're now it's like all about where you're at. You
Speaker 1: can tell the truth when you feel safe in your truth, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go. What was yours today? More a m
Speaker 1: d R. Good? Good, Yeah, that's good helping you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm actually surprised because I'm kind of a very
Speaker 1: what I'm not kind of I'm a very guarded person.
Speaker 1: So I'm actually been surprised how well it's gone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because that's that you gotta get because even though I
Speaker 1: have a hard time with the m d Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think she was worried it wouldn't really work well with men.
Speaker 1: It does. It works. Have you guys explained to your
Speaker 1: listeners what E M d R is? Do you want
Speaker 1: me to tell you? But but but re refresh our
Speaker 1: listeners because yeah, it's it's so funny that we're starting
Speaker 1: the conversation about what therapy was like today because literally
Speaker 1: that's just exactly what I I just put out this
Speaker 1: but happy days, which we'll talk about. And the joke
Speaker 1: with my therapist is, who do you think is going
Speaker 1: to play you in the movie? Because she's like the
Speaker 1: number one role in this book other than me. You
Speaker 1: know that through line of therapy throughout our life is
Speaker 1: such a massive game changer for what we can show
Speaker 1: up as now and so for E m d R,
Speaker 1: which was a huge part of my therapy practice. I
Speaker 1: will drive home what that is for everybody. It's eye
Speaker 1: movement to sensitization and reprocessing. And so what happens is
Speaker 1: when we stimulate the bilateral brain functioning, whether it's with
Speaker 1: moving your eyes back and forth or having a buzzer
Speaker 1: in either hand or a buzzer in either ear, the
Speaker 1: brain opens up its window of tolerance to reprocess old traumas,
Speaker 1: old phobias, patterns that we've been stuck in and literally
Speaker 1: bring us out new depending on how big T the
Speaker 1: trauma is, if it's a big T trauma or a
Speaker 1: small TI trauma, it's a smaller, bigger T trauma like
Speaker 1: being sexually abused or living through a catastrophic event or
Speaker 1: having you know, alcoholic parent, or a small T trauma.
Speaker 1: Could be often considered being bullied as a small TI trauma,
Speaker 1: but that's actually, my opinion, a big T trauma. But
Speaker 1: depending on how big or small the T in your trauma,
Speaker 1: the longer may take with the m DR journey, but
Speaker 1: it works. You feel relief immediately, Yeah, I did, I did.
Speaker 1: I m dare with from anxiety and like that was
Speaker 1: like a game changer because I like was having real
Speaker 1: bad anxiety um a couple of years ago. But I
Speaker 1: will also say to add to this point in which
Speaker 1: I want to then go into your book, is um
Speaker 1: my anxiety. I mean I still I had like a
Speaker 1: minor one, but like, I have not had hardly any
Speaker 1: anxiety post divorce. And I thought my anxiety would be
Speaker 1: the most post divorce because I you know, I was
Speaker 1: I'd be alone and this and all the things that
Speaker 1: I feared. But it's like, I think when you remove
Speaker 1: things that are I realized, I'm like, oh wow, that
Speaker 1: was making me have a lot more anxiety. All the
Speaker 1: like the toxicity and the you know, the all just
Speaker 1: all of it, you know. So I think that was like,
Speaker 1: we're really eye opening for me, Like, holy crap, I
Speaker 1: don't have the anxiety that I had for the last
Speaker 1: however many years. Well, yeah, you were living in a
Speaker 1: state of hyper vigilance, he explained that, so you're you're
Speaker 1: constantly on high alert, yes, and like in the trenches
Speaker 1: and yeah, when you don't know, when you don't know
Speaker 1: what you're going to get every day, right, So you know,
Speaker 1: we all have have different attachment styles, and when our
Speaker 1: attachment styles are activated in relationships, particularly romantic relationships, it
Speaker 1: can really put us into a state of terror. Right.
Speaker 1: So uh, let's let's say if you were feeling insecure
Speaker 1: in that relationship, which we understand that insecure attachment, that
Speaker 1: anxious attachment of what am I going to get today?
Speaker 1: I gotta you know, fawn and cling to keep it
Speaker 1: or I've got to I'm not gonna put words in
Speaker 1: your mouth, but just speaking on behalf of the anxiously
Speaker 1: attached trying to trying to stay, trying to hold something
Speaker 1: that maybe falling apart or whatever it may be, puts
Speaker 1: you into that loop of an anxiety. And in that
Speaker 1: anxiety loop, you create this full blown body hyper vigilance.
Speaker 1: The somatic experience of that is like constant state of stress,
Speaker 1: constant state of terror, which then shows up in your body.
Speaker 1: Is anxiety obviously may have maybe maybe it caused other
Speaker 1: physical issues too. I mean that happens for many of us,
Speaker 1: like gastro issues or neck issues or back pain. There's
Speaker 1: so much that that comes out of that chronic state
Speaker 1: of anxiety. Yeah, and I think I remember one of
Speaker 1: my I mean, shoot, someone got her husband was a
Speaker 1: saxotic snick and cancer, because it's just like what the
Speaker 1: stress that anxiety causes on your body. And that's right,
Speaker 1: it's right. And the chronic state of that chronic state
Speaker 1: of of being in fight or flight. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what am I going to have to find out today?
Speaker 1: But Happy Days? Let's go to Happy Days. Tell me
Speaker 1: everything about it. I'm so excited. I've ordered it on Amazon.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to read it. So what can I
Speaker 1: what can mean? It's and actually what we're talking about
Speaker 1: right here, right now. I mean, you guys went right
Speaker 1: for It's Happy Days, but it's the guided path from
Speaker 1: trauma to profound freedom and inner peace. In the book,
Speaker 1: I talked about my journey of remembering. First of all,
Speaker 1: when I first got clean and sober, I got sober,
Speaker 1: I didn't understand why I was a cocaine addict. And
Speaker 1: then putting down the drugs, I picked up workaholism, and
Speaker 1: I poked up dependency and all of the other ways
Speaker 1: that we run. And when I was thirty six years old,
Speaker 1: I was by that point in my life, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd written six or seven books, I've been on Oprah,
Speaker 1: I'd had all these big life accomplishments. But I was
Speaker 1: dying on the inside. Well, I didn't know, and I
Speaker 1: kept questioning, and I was brave enough to wonder, you know,
Speaker 1: what is behind this? And I was having panic attacks
Speaker 1: and meltdowns and cracking and cracking and cracking. And a
Speaker 1: few months into that, I had a dream and the
Speaker 1: dream was of being sexually abused as a child and
Speaker 1: confronting it as an adult. When I woke up, I
Speaker 1: was like, no, making way, never going to look at
Speaker 1: that again. Don't want to talk about that again. No.
Speaker 1: And a few days later in therapy, my therapist and
Speaker 1: I started to talk about some things we've never spoken
Speaker 1: about before, and I remembered I had the full body
Speaker 1: remembrance of a dissociated memory of being abused as a child.
Speaker 1: And so that was the moment of recognizing, oh, that's
Speaker 1: what I've been running from, that's the impermissible, that's the
Speaker 1: exiled part of me. And I was thirty six. And
Speaker 1: that also was the day that I began the journey
Speaker 1: of really the undoing, the undoing and the reprocessing through
Speaker 1: e M d R, through somatic experiencing, through internal family
Speaker 1: systems therapy, which I'd love to introduce you guys too,
Speaker 1: if you don't know about it yet, through spiritual practices,
Speaker 1: through body based work and all that's in the book. Literally,
Speaker 1: this is your about you guys are gonna I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: It's the whole, It's my whole guided path from trauma
Speaker 1: to profound freedom and inner peace. And I keep saying
Speaker 1: out loud that like, there's literally no freaking way in
Speaker 1: hell that I would put my name on this cover
Speaker 1: and my face on this cover with that subtitle if
Speaker 1: I wasn't on the other side and living that subtitle
Speaker 1: of profound freedom and inner peace. And so this is
Speaker 1: like the trauma cliff notes of what to do when
Speaker 1: you're in that moment of facing into your truth. But like, hey,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. The other part of me is like how
Speaker 1: do you get there? Though, Like I'm like what, like
Speaker 1: tell It's like tell me that, like because it's like
Speaker 1: I want to be the girl on the cover of
Speaker 1: that book. You know that's actually really um beautiful vision
Speaker 1: Janna is I want to be the girl in the
Speaker 1: cover of that book. In the beginning, I actually asked
Speaker 1: the reader to write a vision statement of like what
Speaker 1: is it feel like? Where are you going? And so
Speaker 1: that was kind of cool. That they just went there.
Speaker 1: I We'll tell you. It begins with having the willingness
Speaker 1: to accept and recognize that you've been running, that there's
Speaker 1: some ways that you've been running. An anxiety is actually
Speaker 1: another form of running from the pain and the suffering.
Speaker 1: It's sort of a what in internal family systems is
Speaker 1: known as a protector part, and to witness and notice
Speaker 1: all of the ways that we've been acting out, whether
Speaker 1: it be addictive patterns or uh. Because truly, you know,
Speaker 1: underneath all addiction is trauma. I'm sure you're very familiar
Speaker 1: with that. So we build up all these coping mechanisms,
Speaker 1: which I refer to with my training with i f
Speaker 1: S as protector parts protection. So work ahol is um,
Speaker 1: drug addiction, sex addiction, love addiction, UM, anxiety, these even
Speaker 1: physical pain is like another protector part to avoid having
Speaker 1: to face the exiled, impermissible child, parts of shame and
Speaker 1: trauma big to your small t And so the first
Speaker 1: step is really witnessing and noticing all the ways that
Speaker 1: you've been habitually in these patterns of numbing down, pushing down,
Speaker 1: and anesthetizing the impermissible, and then goes into the chapter
Speaker 1: of becoming brave enough to wonder, and I very gently
Speaker 1: take the reader by the hand and just help them
Speaker 1: begin to acknowledge and notice what might be underneath that suffering.
Speaker 1: And all along the way, I'm constantly guiding back to
Speaker 1: different therapeutic models so that they can get the resources
Speaker 1: and support and take it further and talk about how
Speaker 1: trauma affects the body and the somatic experience, and how
Speaker 1: we hide behind the body. I go into a lot
Speaker 1: of body based practices in the book, and in the
Speaker 1: next chapters that come, I talk about internal family systems
Speaker 1: therapy and how we can reparent ourselves. I also, of
Speaker 1: course talk about E m d R and I give
Speaker 1: E m DR practices that somebody can do in real time.
Speaker 1: I'll give you one right now. So if you're not,
Speaker 1: if you don't have the privilege of having an m
Speaker 1: d R therapist yet or ever, here's a practice. So
Speaker 1: it's called rage on the page, where you journal for
Speaker 1: twenty minutes. This is based on the work of doctor Well.
Speaker 1: The journaling method is that my girlfriend Nicole gave me
Speaker 1: this method based on the work of John Sarno, who
Speaker 1: was a mind body doctor that really focused on the
Speaker 1: psycho somatic effects of our trauma, and so meditate for
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, excuse me, journal for twenty minutes. It's called
Speaker 1: I called it rage on the page. So get your
Speaker 1: out for twenty minutes in your journal, and then meditate
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes for the reprocessing, all the while listening
Speaker 1: to E M d R music. So I've got a hold.
Speaker 1: We can put this in your show notes, but I
Speaker 1: have like a whole playlist for the M d R
Speaker 1: music and letting it just just be that bilateral brain stimulation,
Speaker 1: back and forth, back and forth, back and forth while
Speaker 1: you're raging on the page getting it all out, and
Speaker 1: then in the twenty minutes of meditation reprocessing. So that's
Speaker 1: just a practice in there. That's an example of many
Speaker 1: practices in the book. But that's when that people could
Speaker 1: begin to do, and museums you are safely on their own.
Speaker 1: I've been I've been writing a bunch that would be helpful.
Speaker 1: I'll incorporate those other two things because I think I
Speaker 1: leave it just with the rage, and I don't I
Speaker 1: don't then recover M M. And you're writing a book
Speaker 1: right now, I cannot confirm nor deny. Okay, So when
Speaker 1: in your lifetime you decided to write a book. I
Speaker 1: really recommend doing some of the E m DR meditations
Speaker 1: when you're done with your writing process, because when you write,
Speaker 1: I know, whatever book he writes going to be very
Speaker 1: deep and it can also be re traumatizing and triggering
Speaker 1: to do so, so just make sure you take care
Speaker 1: of yourself with that kind of music afterwards, and obviously
Speaker 1: like book ending with therapy and things like that. Writing
Speaker 1: this book for me was extremely activating, and it was
Speaker 1: for activating for all my loved ones and publishers and
Speaker 1: everyone that that that read it. You know, read you, guys,
Speaker 1: the introduction, just for a sect, like three paragraphs, just
Speaker 1: to give you a sense of what happened when I
Speaker 1: wrote this book. You know what might come introduction, the
Speaker 1: truth about this book. We're anxious for you, Gaby, said
Speaker 1: my publisher after reading the first past of the manuscript.
Speaker 1: It feels too vulnerable, they continued, You're revealing one difficult
Speaker 1: moment after the next. You're not showing your true strength.
Speaker 1: My ability to be this vulnerable is my true strength,
Speaker 1: I responded. The conversation carried on with several moments of tears,
Speaker 1: passionate explanations, defending the manuscript mixed with mutual agreement and love. Well,
Speaker 1: this is a challenging conversation to have. It was necessary.
Speaker 1: This book is different from the eighth that came before.
Speaker 1: This book reveals parts of me that I had never
Speaker 1: known were there until I started this writing process. This
Speaker 1: book tells the story of how to survive and thrive.
Speaker 1: This is my story of recovering from trauma. Wow. OK,
Speaker 1: I'll remember forget when my my editor called me because
Speaker 1: I had it. We had a second book deal with
Speaker 1: Mimi and Max, and then obviously that went away, and
Speaker 1: I told her what I wanted to write, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I think you should wait until you're like happy and
Speaker 1: in a new relationship. And I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to touch on like a guy in my next book,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to be like, oh look at me.
Speaker 1: I'm happy now, I'm in a relationship and I've got
Speaker 1: it all figured out because of X. And So I
Speaker 1: think there's something so beautiful about like the vulnerability that
Speaker 1: you share, and I think people are scared of that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you're weak or you're not strong.
Speaker 1: It means that you're so freaking strong. You know because
Speaker 1: you're sharing it and you're you're relating to so many
Speaker 1: people like M. I think what I love about is
Speaker 1: like when I whenever I read book, so I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to know how just like how you
Speaker 1: figured it out, Like I want to know, like what
Speaker 1: you went through, M, and then how you got to
Speaker 1: like where you're at now, and then also like I
Speaker 1: also want to know too from you, Gabby, like yes,
Speaker 1: you have happy days and you've worked through your unfortunate
Speaker 1: trauma and your anxieties. But it's like I also want
Speaker 1: to know, like I've been in therapy for however, fourteen
Speaker 1: plus years, and it's like I also want to know that,
Speaker 1: like it's normal that things still come up and then
Speaker 1: I still have to face it and like I'm not
Speaker 1: just like oh I'm great and I'm free and I'm
Speaker 1: so happy, you know what I mean, Like because I'm
Speaker 1: like I can't like because or maybe I didn't, I
Speaker 1: don't know, Like I feel like I'm gonna forever be
Speaker 1: growing and healing and learning and maybe things will pass
Speaker 1: trigger me and stuff like that, Like yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: I can say that while I can put my face
Speaker 1: on this cover and say that I am on the
Speaker 1: other side. I still have therapy at tonight. Sure, I'm
Speaker 1: still shining the crystal that is me. I'm still focusing
Speaker 1: on strengthening the practices that I have in my internal
Speaker 1: landscape and being able to really use life as an
Speaker 1: opportunity to get closer and closer to these methods and
Speaker 1: live them and know them in my heart. And I
Speaker 1: don't think that we stop, but I do think that
Speaker 1: there is there is a light at the end of
Speaker 1: the tunnel, because I do know what it was like
Speaker 1: living in trauma and PTSD and working through it and
Speaker 1: not thinking that there was a light at the end
Speaker 1: of the tunnel, not thinking that there was ever a
Speaker 1: way I could feel safe in my body, not believing
Speaker 1: that I could ever feel safe in my letting people
Speaker 1: in more closely, being more vulnerable with close people in
Speaker 1: my life. And now I can. So I really want
Speaker 1: to give voice to recovery and to what it looks
Speaker 1: like to be on the other side and then really acknowledge,
Speaker 1: you know, like I've been in sober recovery for sixteen years,
Speaker 1: I still ard of myself as an alcoholic and a
Speaker 1: drug addict, because we don't want to forget where we
Speaker 1: came from. We don't want to forget who we are
Speaker 1: capable of. But I have addressed the root cause condition
Speaker 1: of that addiction and being on the other side of
Speaker 1: the addiction and now the trauma. I I want to
Speaker 1: remember and I want to stay closed and I want
Speaker 1: to when I would say, when things get good, keep
Speaker 1: keep working harder because you want to really maintain and
Speaker 1: sustain that level of peace and inner freedom. So is
Speaker 1: it when someone says, like, you know, to stop, you know,
Speaker 1: bringing it the past and like it's shameful and stuff,
Speaker 1: so that it's like when someone is still has their
Speaker 1: shame ahold of them, Like what does that? What does
Speaker 1: that mean? Does that mean that they you know, they
Speaker 1: haven't worked through it or mm hmmm um. There's a
Speaker 1: chapter in the book called Speaking the Unspeakable, and it's
Speaker 1: all about shame and it helps the reader recognize their
Speaker 1: shame response because we all have different types of shame
Speaker 1: response is depending on maybe we have we have many
Speaker 1: I can I can share with you some of them.
Speaker 1: And facing our shame is the most shame is the
Speaker 1: most impermissible feeling, and so facing into that shame can
Speaker 1: be horrifying, terrifying, I did a workshop on this last week,
Speaker 1: and it was like people got really triggered and activated
Speaker 1: when they were just even acknowledged that shame and gave
Speaker 1: voice to it. And so we have these different ways
Speaker 1: of avoiding and pushing and running from the shame. So
Speaker 1: denying the shame, right saying like oh that never happened,
Speaker 1: I'm fine, or things were a lot better than I
Speaker 1: than I than I said, or anything like that, right
Speaker 1: attacking others. So when we feel shame triggered and we
Speaker 1: go into that shame response, what our initial response could
Speaker 1: be to go attack back, because we don't want to
Speaker 1: face what's within, so projecting out what we don't want
Speaker 1: to look at, and there's attack yourself. Right on My
Speaker 1: mantra for many many years was I'm a piece of MHM.
Speaker 1: That was literally the what I said to myself on
Speaker 1: a daily basis, even while writing multiple self help books.
Speaker 1: I still but I want to really identify this because
Speaker 1: that's what my publishers were saying that like, we're nervous
Speaker 1: because you're being so vulnerable, you're not sharing your true strength.
Speaker 1: And they were right in a way, because I wasn't
Speaker 1: showing that I was able to be strong, and I
Speaker 1: was able to be a presence and a source of
Speaker 1: light in people's lives. And I was able to be
Speaker 1: an expression of spiritual truth and be a spiritual teacher
Speaker 1: and show up in those ways while going through so much. You're, Jenny,
Speaker 1: You're a great example of that. You know, It's like
Speaker 1: you were still in the pursuit of freedom and sharing
Speaker 1: the truth and bringing light even in the midst of
Speaker 1: some of your darkest moments. And I find it so
Speaker 1: fascinating that we're back here right now. Guys. When we
Speaker 1: first spoke was like the week that you were talking
Speaker 1: about your divorce. Yeah, and and you know, I will
Speaker 1: say it's then, I mean, it's it's almost been a
Speaker 1: year since my divorce, and just like seeing the light
Speaker 1: and seeing how different I am, It's like there is light,
Speaker 1: but in that moment, you're like, there's no light. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be in this pain forever. But even your bravery
Speaker 1: to speak out back soon, Um, but you're even your
Speaker 1: bravery is just to tell the truth about where you
Speaker 1: were at was a step closer to that light. You
Speaker 1: don't realize that in the moment when you're in the
Speaker 1: thick of it. Yeah, But being able to give voice
Speaker 1: to these truths. Yeah, how do you deal with UM
Speaker 1: walking through this in your relationship? Is it hard? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. Listen, my my husband edits my books UM
Speaker 1: after my my editor at the publishing how but in
Speaker 1: house editor, and then it goes to Zach and then
Speaker 1: it goes to the publisher. And he was really triggered
Speaker 1: by this book. I talk about my suicidal, my experience
Speaker 1: with suicidal postpartum depression. That was like super activating for
Speaker 1: him because it was trauma for him to living through that.
Speaker 1: And truly the fifteen years that we've been together, he's
Speaker 1: lived through my trauma journey and that's also traumatizing for him.
Speaker 1: So we do a lot of work. We do a
Speaker 1: lot of work on our relationship. We do a lot
Speaker 1: of work. UM. We practice internal family systems therapy, which
Speaker 1: I'm trained in now, and we have this powerful practice
Speaker 1: of being able to witness each other in these different
Speaker 1: parts of who we are. So when I'm seeing him activated,
Speaker 1: I can think, oh, that's a child part that's super
Speaker 1: activated right now, and rather than raging at him, I
Speaker 1: can have compassion towards him. That's major. Yeah, what would
Speaker 1: be UM when I was talking about therapist to day too.
Speaker 1: I was telling her, like, you know, it's just it's
Speaker 1: hard being in a relationship post a healthy relationship after everything,
Speaker 1: and how do you, like, what would you say to
Speaker 1: like me or other women that like are in that
Speaker 1: next relationship um to like not let the anxiety of
Speaker 1: a what if? Or I don't want to be duped again,
Speaker 1: or like um or like manifesting or I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just I feel like it's just like really hard
Speaker 1: to like feel like it's real. Sure, so, so a
Speaker 1: lot of it is about forgiving your ex, forgiving my ax. Uh.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something, Gabby. Let me say this. I
Speaker 1: do not want an apology from him anymore. That's what
Speaker 1: I wanted for like a year. Mm hmm. I do
Speaker 1: not want an apology from him anymore because I don't
Speaker 1: I won't say, I won't believe it, and be I
Speaker 1: don't think he'll ever apologize. I kind of got into
Speaker 1: a place now where I actually don't even want it
Speaker 1: and I can say that and like, really you mean that, right? Great,
Speaker 1: But I do have a hard time for giving someone
Speaker 1: that doesn't acknowledge the abuse. Wow. Yeah, that's how that's tough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess forgiveness comes from the seat of compassion because
Speaker 1: and I'm not suggesting that you push yourself into this,
Speaker 1: but it does help in your future relationships and your
Speaker 1: current new relationship because forgiveness dissolves the history, because when
Speaker 1: we don't have forgiveness, we're taking the past and projecting
Speaker 1: it onto the present and the future. Forgiveness we can
Speaker 1: dissolve those past experiences and be present in the present
Speaker 1: without bringing the baggage with us. So the one of
Speaker 1: the clearest pathways to forgiveness is through compassion. And so
Speaker 1: I'm going to speak about your ax, and I hope
Speaker 1: this isn't triggering, but I'm gonna speak about him as
Speaker 1: a as someone I know, not I don't literally know
Speaker 1: him at all, but someone who I have tremendous compassion for.
Speaker 1: And you may not be here yet, Jenna, right, but
Speaker 1: I just want to speak on behalf of one addict
Speaker 1: to another. When we become addicted, we are in what
Speaker 1: is known as like a firefighter protect or state, and
Speaker 1: and we are doing whatever we can to numb out
Speaker 1: impermissible feelings from our history. Go ahead, I was just
Speaker 1: gonna say, that's not what I want him to like,
Speaker 1: that's not the piece that I've already forgiven him. I
Speaker 1: forgive him on the that added part. It's the other stuff.
Speaker 1: It's not being able to own up to his his
Speaker 1: ways of being. Is that correct? The yeah, the like
Speaker 1: the abusiveness behind it all. Let's take that even further
Speaker 1: than someone who could be that abusive and not own
Speaker 1: up to it is seriously suffering mother. Someone who could
Speaker 1: be that abusive and not own up to it and
Speaker 1: not care for the mother of his children is in
Speaker 1: a extreme amount of pain and suffering, and it is
Speaker 1: extraordinarily terror, terror filled with terror at the fact of
Speaker 1: facing those truths. Or maybe I'm just crazy because he
Speaker 1: seems to be happy. Well, listen, one of the ways
Speaker 1: that we pushed down our shame is denial and dissociation.
Speaker 1: And so this this man, there's no way that he's
Speaker 1: not living with a lot of impermissible shame. And so
Speaker 1: his way of coping, potentially and God bless him, is
Speaker 1: through denial and association, creating a new storyline. It wasn't
Speaker 1: that bad. I wasn't that bad. Everything is okay. I'm
Speaker 1: going to show myself that everything is not bad. That
Speaker 1: was straight up to And then also Another of shame
Speaker 1: response is to attack back, to blame and shame the other,
Speaker 1: because there's his extraordinary shame is too painful and too
Speaker 1: impermissible to feel into that all he can do to
Speaker 1: survive is to blame and shame you. So my point
Speaker 1: is not that that that this is dubbed for you, right,
Speaker 1: That's not my point. That's like, you've been through so much,
Speaker 1: you are so strong, you are so brave. My My
Speaker 1: point is that he is severely suffering, so to have compassion,
Speaker 1: which then leads to forgiveness. If he just started to
Speaker 1: practice to lean into what he must how hard it
Speaker 1: must be to live in that shame. Okay, I can
Speaker 1: look right away. You just shifted instantly like wow, that sucks, right,
Speaker 1: that really really sucks. That really sucks, right, like you
Speaker 1: know right now we all want to like and it's
Speaker 1: not excusing. I want to say, it's still not an
Speaker 1: it's not excusing anything. It's not like yeah, forgiveness does
Speaker 1: not mean that you excuse the behaviors. Forgive. It means
Speaker 1: that the behavior is no longer run your world. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: yes like that and feel like you used to. I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand it's different now because you're not divorced anymore,
Speaker 1: but you were really good at being in that place
Speaker 1: for him and being compassionate. I mean, I mean, you're
Speaker 1: divorced now, you were not divorced then, but you it
Speaker 1: was so easy for you. In my perspective, I felt
Speaker 1: like it was so easy for you to have compassion
Speaker 1: for him in the midst of all of this and
Speaker 1: to feel you would talk about his shame and you
Speaker 1: understood that he was in his shame. So I just
Speaker 1: feel like, now if you could in a way put
Speaker 1: yourself back there and kind of go back to where
Speaker 1: you did have compassion for him, um, I think that
Speaker 1: could be relatively easy for you, honestly, because you were
Speaker 1: very compassionate towards him, Yeah, and also understanding his shame
Speaker 1: response and having this new level of awareness of like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy is living in so much shame that he's
Speaker 1: using multiple different shame responses to to stay alive much, Right,
Speaker 1: So he's got his attack back and shame and blame
Speaker 1: to you so he doesn't have to feel what's in
Speaker 1: And then he's also got his denial and dissociation and
Speaker 1: he definitely has attacking himself, which does not share openly
Speaker 1: or publicly right, So he's probably carrying all the shame responses.
Speaker 1: There's more, and so just to sort of have a
Speaker 1: greater level of awareness of the suffering and the human
Speaker 1: condition of suffering and the ways that it plays out
Speaker 1: is a path to forgiveness because the more we understand others,
Speaker 1: the more we can recognize ourselves in them, and the
Speaker 1: more that we can have compassion towards them. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: like that a lot. I think that's that's really good.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna write about that one like that one.
Speaker 1: I know it's not an easy answer. I mean, shoot,
Speaker 1: I have been searching for it for years and obviously
Speaker 1: it's gotten better, but you know, struggling with anxiety and
Speaker 1: I hold myself back from doing things that I want
Speaker 1: to do. Like, for example, I'm up for something. I
Speaker 1: can't say what it is, but it would really really
Speaker 1: really push me mentally physically. And the one piece that
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it is I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: what if I have an anxiety attacker of my anxiety
Speaker 1: and I can't do it? So it's like, is there
Speaker 1: something that like and I know anxiety was just fear
Speaker 1: of is that it is a fear of the unknown
Speaker 1: or fear of what's would you want to work? Okay,
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm trained in I f S, which is
Speaker 1: which is a model about getting connected to these protector
Speaker 1: parts of ourselves and helping them relax. Would you want
Speaker 1: to do like a two minute practice with me to
Speaker 1: just talk to the anxiety? Is that comfortable or safe
Speaker 1: for you? Right now? It's not about going into the anxiety,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of getting to know what it needs. Sure, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll be safe, don't worry. Yeah, it's super safe. Actually,
Speaker 1: so where do you notice the it's almost right now
Speaker 1: that we have the fear of the anxiety, we don't
Speaker 1: even have to talk about the anxiety. And seeing the
Speaker 1: fear of the anxiety not correct. So let's just talk
Speaker 1: to the fear of the anxiety. Mm hm right, where
Speaker 1: do you notice that in your body? It's like an
Speaker 1: elephants sitting on me, elephant sitting on you? Okay, really
Speaker 1: good descriptive work. You don't thank you? And this fear
Speaker 1: where is it in the room? Like, is it next
Speaker 1: to you? Is it in you? Is it? It's all
Speaker 1: in my chest, in your chest? Here the box, it's
Speaker 1: a box. It's a rector? Good? Okay? Is there a
Speaker 1: color red? It was black turned red because I think
Speaker 1: you're shirt okay, and now just check in with it.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that is being revealed about this
Speaker 1: fear of anxiety? So yes and no? Okay. The only
Speaker 1: reason I say yes is because like my like first
Speaker 1: past relationship or whatever, because he was on top of me.
Speaker 1: And so whenever I feel like my chest tight like
Speaker 1: that anxiety, it just I go. It triggers me back
Speaker 1: to that moment of like I can't escape. So I'm
Speaker 1: like I'm stuck and I'm trapped, which, yeah, like I've
Speaker 1: just trapped. Okay, Okay, So the part of you that
Speaker 1: feels trapped, can it? Can it step aside for a
Speaker 1: moment and just like have a coffee outside, we're gonna okay,
Speaker 1: let's go have some tea and we'll talk to you later, okay,
Speaker 1: Because you want to talk to the fear right now,
Speaker 1: bring your attention back to that fear and just notice
Speaker 1: anything else that comes up about it. Anything. Is there
Speaker 1: an age? Is their gender? You think about the fear
Speaker 1: of anxiety? Nothing else? Okay? Is it just sort of
Speaker 1: an energy? How would you describe it? I think it's
Speaker 1: just like, um, it's just kind of there. It's like
Speaker 1: a little like devil, you know, it's like a devil
Speaker 1: on the right shoulder because it's like because I've done
Speaker 1: so much freaking work about therapy, but it's still there's
Speaker 1: still like a little piece just like always hanging on,
Speaker 1: like not letting me fully live like without any But
Speaker 1: I'm like, does everyone have like, don't you have anxieties
Speaker 1: or no, like things that will hold you back that
Speaker 1: you'd be scared to a part of you right now, Jenna,
Speaker 1: that's coming up. That's that's trying to deflect. Can we
Speaker 1: ask the deflector to go have some tetooth. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna get the deflector is gonna have a smoke? If
Speaker 1: that's a flector, that's a great idea. An American spirit
Speaker 1: yellow pack. Oh I miss it, beautiful, enjoy it now?
Speaker 1: Does this part of you the fear of anxiety? How
Speaker 1: do you, Joanna feel towards this part of you? Oh?
Speaker 1: I hate it? You hate it? Okay because it just
Speaker 1: makes me feel like weak, you know, and like yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate it. I don't I don't like even like
Speaker 1: bringing it up because it's like Okay, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: like fear. Does the fear of the anxiety no that
Speaker 1: you're here with it? M yeah, m hm. How does
Speaker 1: it feel towards you? Were pals? Repels you? No? No,
Speaker 1: we're pals. You guys are pals. Okay, okay, you're like,
Speaker 1: am I your most complicated case ever? No? Not at all.
Speaker 1: So you and your anxiety are pals, but you joanna
Speaker 1: feel towards it? You hate it? Yeah? Okay, Okay. I
Speaker 1: want to send a little bit of compassion and love
Speaker 1: to your fear of anxiety, your fear of the anxiety,
Speaker 1: because it's working really hard for it's working really hard
Speaker 1: to keep you safe from impermissible anxiety. I just wanted
Speaker 1: to send a thank you to it for its efforts. Okay.
Speaker 1: If that fear of anxiety wasn't doing this extreme job
Speaker 1: of just you know, making you crazy and making you
Speaker 1: hate it and working so hard, what else would it
Speaker 1: be doing right now? I mean, if it wasn't there,
Speaker 1: I would not I mean, I give it, um, I
Speaker 1: give it energy. Okay, so I'd be giving you back
Speaker 1: some energy, but it wasn't so extreme. Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: what else would this part of you be doing? If
Speaker 1: it wasn't having to be in this extreme all of
Speaker 1: try keeping you an alert. I mean, it could it
Speaker 1: could be like my support mm hmm hm beautiful. So
Speaker 1: if it was supporting you, what is that? What does
Speaker 1: that look like to you? It would basically be like
Speaker 1: my It would basically be like you got this, Like
Speaker 1: you're going to be fine, Like nothing's gonna happen, and
Speaker 1: if it does, we'll work through it. M beautiful, Like
Speaker 1: you can get on the expressway and out of a
Speaker 1: panic attack, you will be fine, you know. Okay, beautiful? Okay,
Speaker 1: because I still can't drive on an expressway, but I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a panic attack and I'm would be
Speaker 1: trapped in So if it was supporting you, is there
Speaker 1: a place in your world that you feel supported? Yeah?
Speaker 1: My friends with your friends. Okay, could you invite this
Speaker 1: fear of anxiety to queendown? Yeah? Yeah, sit on the
Speaker 1: sofa with you guys and like, drink some wine and
Speaker 1: just chill. Can you just visualize that for just a
Speaker 1: second as we wrap up this process, just notice what
Speaker 1: it feels like to bring the fear of anxiety to
Speaker 1: your crew of your your girl going and your people.
Speaker 1: How does it feel when it's with you. Guys, I
Speaker 1: kind of want to love on it. M there we go, Janna,
Speaker 1: thank you when you want to love on it. What
Speaker 1: would you say towards it? You're okay, You're fine, like
Speaker 1: I got you, Like it's all gonna be okay, You're safe.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmmmmm, you're safe. Okay. Can you make a commitment
Speaker 1: to your fear of anxiety that the next time you
Speaker 1: notice it you can bring it to the sofa and
Speaker 1: you're in your sweats and your girls and your wine
Speaker 1: and you can hang out and just visualize what that
Speaker 1: would look like. Yeah, I'll do that or I'll damn
Speaker 1: me one of the two. Maybe for the sake of
Speaker 1: this moment, you make the commitment. Okay, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I'll bring it into queendom. And so right now you
Speaker 1: can feel into that feeling of feeling love towards it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now my chest isn't any There we go. There we go.
Speaker 1: Thanks Gab God, I love you. Hey, we always you know,
Speaker 1: you're so fun to do work with, Like last time
Speaker 1: we tapped and now super open and what you did
Speaker 1: just explain to your listener which has happened so by
Speaker 1: by noticing and giving voice to and focusing it on
Speaker 1: the part that part of you, and seeing it as
Speaker 1: something separate from you, not you, it's not you, it's
Speaker 1: a part of you, and being and giving voice to it,
Speaker 1: and asking all those other protectors that we're trying to
Speaker 1: get in the way to step aside and of a
Speaker 1: coffee and a cigarette or continue a cigarette. We were
Speaker 1: able to have a conversation and connect to and create
Speaker 1: a direct line of connection from your adult, resourced, undamaged
Speaker 1: self to the fear part. M And the same way
Speaker 1: you would speak to your children is how you were
Speaker 1: speaking at the end to this part, like you're good,
Speaker 1: I got you, I'm going to take care of you.
Speaker 1: You're safe with me. And so this is a process
Speaker 1: of becoming your own internal parent and bringing that fear
Speaker 1: back to safety. The more you really create that established
Speaker 1: direct line of connection to that fear, you won't have
Speaker 1: a panic attack, because often panic attacks come on because
Speaker 1: of the fear of the panic attack. Really just got
Speaker 1: to work with the fear and just invited to come
Speaker 1: back to the couch and just take care of it,
Speaker 1: extend compassion towards it. Gabby, I love you. Um our
Speaker 1: listeners tell them everything. The book where they can get it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I just got mine on Amazon, but go for it.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I mean, I must have a
Speaker 1: book on the way to you guys, So just stay
Speaker 1: stay open to whatever is in the mail. Um um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know the books on Amazon. It's it's called Happy Days,
Speaker 1: The Guided Path from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace.
Speaker 1: It's never been more of a timely topic than today.
Speaker 1: And I believe that we all deserve to no one,
Speaker 1: that we're not alone in our suffering, and to to
Speaker 1: be given the guided path out. And that's my prayer,
Speaker 1: my intention for this book. I really hope it helps
Speaker 1: people create a lot of serenity and self soothing and support.
Speaker 1: And then they can find you at on Instagram. I'm
Speaker 1: at Dear. I met at Gabby Burns you on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I have a podcast that I called Dear Gabby where
Speaker 1: I worked on people like I've had the privilege of
Speaker 1: doing here with Jetta, And yeah, that's where you can
Speaker 1: find me. All right, Gab, thank you so much. I
Speaker 1: appreciate you. I love you, sweetheart. Thank you appreciate your heart. Also,
Speaker 1: one thing, I'm coming. This is not for the show,
Speaker 1: but I'm coming to when thinking April. I'll send you that, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: send it to me, text to me. It would be
Speaker 1: fucking awesome to hang out with you. I would love it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: something Tina cigarette, Tina cigarette. You know, I'm not not opposed, Okay,
Speaker 1: so long. That would be if there was like something,
Speaker 1: if I was like at a party and like everyone
Speaker 1: was like doing coke in the corner, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: can I have a cigarette? There? You go? Well, let
Speaker 1: let me know. Seriously, I'd love to see you, fine,
Speaker 1: love to hug you. Okay, friends, definitely, I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: sure your books are over there for you guys. Why
Speaker 1: I ordered one too. But I love you, Okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, girl. I love her. She's so sweet. She's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's great. She's just got like a really good heart.
Speaker 1: You know, like she's been through some stuff and I
Speaker 1: feel like you can either go like one way or
Speaker 1: the other. Sure, and like obviously she's taken, you know,
Speaker 1: she's used her pain for good and help helping others.
Speaker 1: So there's so much hope in that, you know. I Mean,
Speaker 1: it's just really good for people to see that there's
Speaker 1: light at the end of the tunnel. But I also
Speaker 1: like to know that, like it's not just like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: like I don't have any struggles anymore, because that's like
Speaker 1: where I'm getting Like, I'm like, are you like every day? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sure not. But I think people really do have
Speaker 1: to see or they're not going to put in the work.
Speaker 1: Like I know, for me, if I didn't believe that
Speaker 1: there was some kind of light at the end of
Speaker 1: the tunnel, I don't know that I would put in
Speaker 1: all the work, you know what I mean. It's almost
Speaker 1: like being on a diet totally right, Yeah, absolutely. I
Speaker 1: meant if you heard my stomach growling the entire time,
Speaker 1: so hungry, I'm so hungry. I mean I'm eating, don't worry,
Speaker 1: it's just time for me to eat. But I'm for you,
Speaker 1: it's like, right, it's like that same like you have
Speaker 1: to know that there's like because if not, that's what
Speaker 1: you're just going to keep. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard, it's definitely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got to put the work in. For a lot
Speaker 1: of people, you have to know, you have to have
Speaker 1: that hope of what's at the end of it. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's still going to be struggling even if you lose
Speaker 1: the weight, You're still going to struggle and you're still
Speaker 1: going to have hards and you're still gonna but you
Speaker 1: have I feel like people have to hear that part
Speaker 1: of it or they're not going to put in the work. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I have to hear and I know what
Speaker 1: you're saying because you want to hear but you were
Speaker 1: just fixed and everything is just better because I've been
Speaker 1: doing this for how long and I'm not fixed? You know.
Speaker 1: I I hear you. But I think for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, especially new to therapy, they have to hear
Speaker 1: that hopeful yes, like what is going to end up
Speaker 1: at the end for me? I mean, I mean same.
Speaker 1: That's like why I like read books, and that's why
Speaker 1: I like you know, because it's like I want to
Speaker 1: know that, like things can work out from bad things.
Speaker 1: I want to know that, like and which is like
Speaker 1: why you know, I like sharing. It's like, hey, look
Speaker 1: at like you can move on from divorce. It's like
Speaker 1: but in the moment when you have your friends, Catherine
Speaker 1: mean like you're going to get through this, I'm like no,
Speaker 1: I'm rob so hard to see it in like moment, Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because it's like I'm sure. Like it's almost like, like
Speaker 1: I said, go back to going back to like starting
Speaker 1: or you don't want to start it because it's like
Speaker 1: it's hard to like start, it's hard to start therapy.
Speaker 1: It's hard to start. Like but there is light at
Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel, and that is I think
Speaker 1: they're like driving home, there is hope, there's there or
Speaker 1: why would you keep going or why would you start?
Speaker 1: Because if there's not a light or hope at the end,
Speaker 1: then who would start anything? But you know what, it's
Speaker 1: almost easier to start than to keep going sometimes in
Speaker 1: both senses, the diet and the therapy, because it's hard
Speaker 1: work and yeah and yeah, yeah, It's like I was
Speaker 1: talking to a girlfriend at dance and you know, they're
Speaker 1: having like some issues in their marriage, and she was like,
Speaker 1: it's easy, not easy to start. It started and it's good,
Speaker 1: but then it's like to continue like doing the things
Speaker 1: that we need or whatever. It's like then you just
Speaker 1: kind of fall back or fall off the diet or
Speaker 1: you fall off you know, the therapy or whatever, and
Speaker 1: it's like then you're back to like the dark again. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get through. There's gonna be light at the
Speaker 1: end of the tunnel, because there is there always is.
Speaker 1: I've never seen a tunnel where it doesn't, I mean
Speaker 1: unless you're like on the I mean shoot, even in
Speaker 1: shaw Shank there you got through the tunnel like he
Speaker 1: dug the tunnel and then there was there was I'm serious,
Speaker 1: there was the nice man outdoors and you know. But anyways,
Speaker 1: all right, squirrel moments. So you guys, wee bye. Actually
Speaker 1: just got her book in the mail, and so I'm
Speaker 1: pretty pumped to start reading that because I was hooked.
Speaker 1: I'm hooked by the intro. It's gonna be good, very good. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: so there's exciting things happening. Wine Down is going on
Speaker 1: the road. Got some Nashville, Atlanta, in Chicago dates. So
Speaker 1: go to Jane Kramer dot what Calm's It's not like
Speaker 1: that has been your website for at least ten eleven years,
Speaker 1: is it? Is it on the website Jane Kramer dot
Speaker 1: com com backslash tour? Oh there you go, thanks manager. Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a good time taking some some girls out. I have
Speaker 1: a follow up on something we talked about earlier the Karen's.
Speaker 1: It turns out Karen's are not the most likely people
Speaker 1: to exhibit Karen like behavior. Maybe the name is not fair,
Speaker 1: That's what I said. Karen's research says that the most
Speaker 1: Karen like behavior goes the women named Louise. I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say, my daughter's middle name is Anne and Jane,
Speaker 1: and my middle name Mark. Okay, stop being a Mark.
Speaker 1: We're going to start Jane. I don't well, the male
Speaker 1: version of the Karen is the Kent. So wait, hold on,
Speaker 1: did you say Jane, Louise and Anne? Is that all
Speaker 1: your name? My middle name is Anne used to Ramsey's
Speaker 1: middle name is Jane? Is Louise? Sounds like y'all? Are karens?
Speaker 1: Sounds like it? Two definite press parents. Well good too.
Speaker 1: It's good to know to all those people out there,
Speaker 1: looks like you're the real Karen near defense, the real
Speaker 1: karens Um all right, I have nothing else. Talk to
Speaker 1: you guys next week. Fight