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Speaker 1: Wine Down with Janna Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Do you guys know what my name spells? Backwards? God?

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Speaker 1: Damn the schools falling? Hold on a second, are you

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Speaker 1: going to say? Why are you laughing? No? Try it again,

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Speaker 1: right out right out, Jana, right now, Like, but don't

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Speaker 1: do don't do this, don't do this, swoop with the j,

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Speaker 1: do a straight with the j. Okay, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: really spell you're implying that it spells anal backwards. It

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Speaker 1: looks like it. Yeah, everyone has been sending me like,

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Speaker 1: look at your name backwards Anal, And I'm like, I've

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Speaker 1: had a name for thirty eight years. I'm well aware

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Speaker 1: that my name spells anal. I would have never thought.

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Speaker 1: I just it's that thing going around with the balloons. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but like I see, like the actual mirror image of

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Speaker 1: it is like behind Yeah, yeah, yeah, got it well.

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Speaker 1: Speaking as a cram, I mean, you know it can

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Speaker 1: always be worse, right dead joked. Did you have any

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Speaker 1: nicknames growing up? I mean when I was a little older,

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Speaker 1: people called me Kathy because I hated it, Kathy because

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Speaker 1: I hate it. So my college friends called me Kathy,

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Speaker 1: but now just cat. Joli about it wof not that

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Speaker 1: that's bad. Sorry, Kathyr but not no, But I mean

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Speaker 1: I have Kathy, like I know, older Kathy. I just

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Speaker 1: don't seem like Kathy. Well, like you're young, right, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like an old name. But also Katherine and are

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Speaker 1: two different names for sure. That's like when my friend

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Speaker 1: used to call me Jane and I'm like, my name

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Speaker 1: is Janna. That's a completely different Jan. I'm not six

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Speaker 1: years old, you know, Like, but it's the same thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Kathy and Jane are both both are both boomer names. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my mom is Kathy seven. He said, hold up here,

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Speaker 1: Karen's like, no one would need their baby now, Kathy,

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Speaker 1: I mean if you did. And I'm sorry, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think anyone would name their baby Cathy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I imagine maybe, Like I mean, people name

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Speaker 1: like Nora. My mom's name is Nora, but like Kathy, like,

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Speaker 1: what's your baby's name, Kathy, Like I just like I

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Speaker 1: don't see that. I don't know maybe not no, And

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Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by that. I'm fascinated by the cyclical nature

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Speaker 1: of names. Like I'm Mark, my wife is Amy. There

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Speaker 1: are no baby marks. There are no baby amies right now,

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Speaker 1: like zero, not happening. What you think Mark's a biblical name,

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Speaker 1: you think could be like always popular, but nope, cycles

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Speaker 1: just like everything else. And I feel like, in you

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Speaker 1: know what, fifty years, all the old folks homes are

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Speaker 1: going to be full of Ashley's and Brittany weird. That's

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Speaker 1: so true, and then our kids are gonna be like,

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Speaker 1: like you would actually name your son Ashley like or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's such an old person name. And it's like speaking of,

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Speaker 1: how much would it suck to have your name Karen

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Speaker 1: right now? Oh? Bad? That would be awful. Sorry, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's amazing, amazing, point it would change my name, that'd

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Speaker 1: be really Yeah, sorry, Karen's that sucks, especially if you're

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Speaker 1: not a Karen. But if you're a Karen, you're a Karen.

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Speaker 1: But most Karen's names aren't Karen. What do you mean, Like,

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Speaker 1: most actual Karens are not their names not Karen unless

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Speaker 1: you get real lucky. Yeah. I liked having like I

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Speaker 1: liked being the only Jan in school. Yeah, like it

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Speaker 1: was unique for sure. Yeah, and the Katherine's unique at all.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know any Katherine's really, I don't think so

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Speaker 1: you didn't get that. How do you spell it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: like you know, it's like I mean j J N A. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, how do people not know how to splay

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Speaker 1: your name? Yeah? No, you have like three million. I

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Speaker 1: actually don't want Katherine time out. Everybody is anyone watching

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Speaker 1: The Bachelor? I heard he's I heard he's like, so,

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Speaker 1: I was hearing some rumors about how he was talking

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Speaker 1: to Um Susie said her name, yes, and I watched

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Speaker 1: back a clip. I was like, how did they even

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Speaker 1: air that? What was he doing? Gaslighting the hell out

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Speaker 1: of her? Like totally not even like and then Nick

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Speaker 1: Vile came back as it wasn't gaslighting, but it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like cool. But in my opinion, I'm like, dude, that

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Speaker 1: was gaslighting. And then the funniest thing was maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: just like whatever with it. But so I I was

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Speaker 1: talking to actually, I'll tell you afterwards, Um, and the

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Speaker 1: headline was the Bachelor Clinton doesn't think he gaslet Susie.

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Speaker 1: I understand that it appears that way, Like that's also

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Speaker 1: a very gaslighting comment. I understand that it appears that way. No,

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Speaker 1: it actually was that way, Like there's no way like

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Speaker 1: to edit out how he was like he didn't even

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Speaker 1: like he just totally disregarded everything. She was saying, Um,

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Speaker 1: East and uron do you agree or disagree? Well, I

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Speaker 1: just want to say one of ourther if I and

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Speaker 1: I heard radio podcast, the Almost Famous Podcast, interviewed Clayton

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Speaker 1: That's that's the one I've got the quote from from

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Speaker 1: yeah and actually yeah. I asked him if he was

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Speaker 1: gaslighting and he said, He's like, well, no, because I

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Speaker 1: looked at the definition of gaslighting and that means that

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Speaker 1: you're doing something with nefarious purposes and I did not

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Speaker 1: do that, So therefore it is not gaslighting narcissist because

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Speaker 1: there intentional and non intentional gaslighting. Yeah, I mean yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was like, it doesn't you're doing it now to me,

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Speaker 1: you know, But I'm like so like in my mind

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Speaker 1: then I go, okay, I know this is these are

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Speaker 1: all like you know, and even our therapist jokes about this.

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Speaker 1: She's like, it's these are very big words gas lighting, narcissists,

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Speaker 1: like they're they're overused like crazy right now. But I

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Speaker 1: also think we're understanding the definition of them, and to me,

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Speaker 1: it seems like he's if he's not even acknowledging that

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Speaker 1: like those were gaslighting comments and that he didn't even

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Speaker 1: like she was expressing her feelings, her thoughts, her emotions

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Speaker 1: and he just did not even like see them to

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Speaker 1: me again, which shows that he's not very empathetic at all.

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Speaker 1: And then to go on y'all's podcast and say that

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Speaker 1: it's like to me, he's just like, it's like he's

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Speaker 1: set in his own ways. I mean, he might, you know,

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Speaker 1: be checking off some major narcissist box. There's there too,

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Speaker 1: but I'm like, you have Catherine the full background here,

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Speaker 1: because she was saying to him, because he's the final

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Speaker 1: three now, all right, and that's when they do the

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Speaker 1: fantasy sweets, right, she spend the night with each of them,

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Speaker 1: so she was the third of the fantasy sweets. And

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Speaker 1: soon as he said to him, hold up, you know,

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Speaker 1: the first two were like, let's get it on. Let's

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Speaker 1: get it on, so you like, hold up, did you

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Speaker 1: sleep with the other two? He's like, uh, yeah, And

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Speaker 1: she's saying I have a problem with that. He's saying, what,

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Speaker 1: you're a problem with me sleeping with other women? If

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Speaker 1: I had known that was going to be a problem

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Speaker 1: for you, I might have thought about this differently. So

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Speaker 1: that's the that's the the idea of pretending that she

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Speaker 1: wouldn't care that you slept with two other people within

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Speaker 1: the past week is the most offensive part of it.

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Speaker 1: I think, Wait, they aired all of this. First of all,

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Speaker 1: well he didn't are any graphic love making, but but no,

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Speaker 1: but I'm saying that respond his They aired all of his,

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Speaker 1: like his how he how he talked back to her,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, if if any any like good yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly would be like I could totally understand how that

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Speaker 1: would upset you. You know, this is the unfortunate part

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Speaker 1: they were down to and you know, like I mean,

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Speaker 1: just completely turned it around on her. One sal in

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Speaker 1: person made her feel like the crazy one, which is

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Speaker 1: also gas lighting. I'm sorry you made her feel crazy.

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Speaker 1: She she didn't say that, but you made her feel

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Speaker 1: crazy to have that feeling. That is the definition of

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Speaker 1: gas lighting. Sorry, it is you were making that person

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Speaker 1: feel crazy. You did not validate at all, You didn't

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Speaker 1: even like yeah. And then Caitlin Bristo goes you know,

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Speaker 1: she she goes on to say, like I saw her

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Speaker 1: comment about how well, you know, when it goes down

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Speaker 1: to that, that's fine. You can have you know, like

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Speaker 1: for me to like, I would want to have sex

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Speaker 1: with them because I want to know that everyone's like

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Speaker 1: everything's working down there, you know. But if I was

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Speaker 1: in the opposite, I wouldn't, And if I was in

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Speaker 1: Susie's position, I would be upset. I get, I get

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Speaker 1: how that is totally hypocritical and totally not fair. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's just about being able to have your feeling,

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Speaker 1: whether whichever way it is. Yes, also agreed, you can

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Speaker 1: have an opinion and not be Yeah, okay, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: the fact that I mean, yes, it's the Bachelor world, right,

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Speaker 1: the Bachelor is different than real life. Yes, whatever she's

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Speaker 1: feeling is invalidable. Yeah, it doesn't matter what And that's

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Speaker 1: okay for her to that is totally normal for her

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Speaker 1: to feel that way. And the fact that he reacted

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Speaker 1: in that way is just so wrong. And I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm not a fan at all because he doesn't

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Speaker 1: because he doesn't acknowledge it. That's the thing. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: acknowledge it, and how he's handled it. Still like that

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Speaker 1: had a chance to come back and say, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: had a chance to go on one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: I heard podcasts with Benn and Ashley. You know, like

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Speaker 1: he's still and he's still defended. I could see how

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Speaker 1: it seems that way. No, there's no seems there's no

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Speaker 1: kind of it is how it was. Okay, So he

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Speaker 1: said he's the one that then came back and said,

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Speaker 1: I can see how it seems that way. Wow, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty bad. He should have said. I shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: said that period. Yeah, and I should have acknowledged for

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Speaker 1: feeling I like the idea of the day I proposed

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Speaker 1: to my wife. I said, Okay, so here's the I

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Speaker 1: slept with a couple other women this week, and now

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Speaker 1: I've decided you're the winner. Congratulations. I know what I know.

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Speaker 1: Now I know for sure it's you, Like, how is this?

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Speaker 1: How is that life? Like? I just I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the fan poward to you. But now it's just

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Speaker 1: not my it's not my jam. It is very hypocritical

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Speaker 1: though of me. Huh. So you're saying it's hypocritical because

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Speaker 1: you would want to sleep with them to make sure

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Speaker 1: things were working out down there. But what is the

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Speaker 1: other side, Why are you being a hypocrite because I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want him to do the same. Oh, yeah. No, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's hypocritical. I am voting it. It's funny. I would

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Speaker 1: be like, choose, just choose me, Just choose me. You

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Speaker 1: don't need to sleep the women choose me. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: that's um. They can never make it on the Bachelor

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Speaker 1: or Bachelor or whatever. I wouldn't make it on either

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Speaker 1: one of them. Yeah, there's no way. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I just I don't. I don't. I just I

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Speaker 1: really just don't like how he's handled. Yeah, it's unfortunate

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Speaker 1: backlash of what he deserves. Honestly, No, I'm saying I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say what he deserves. It's what I just don't

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Speaker 1: like the backlash and how he's handled. I just don't like.

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Speaker 1: I just it just feels it feels very familiar. And

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Speaker 1: I don't like that he's not owning and apologizing. He's

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Speaker 1: not owning anything or apologizing. And I just don't unless

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Speaker 1: because that's not fair for Susie at all. And I

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Speaker 1: hope she becomes a bat short and Mary is an

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Speaker 1: amazing man. Oh she probably won't be. Props to the

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Speaker 1: Bachelor though. This season was very quiet and now everybody's

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Speaker 1: talking about the Bachelor, so hey, they know what they're

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Speaker 1: doing over there, you know, at the expense of the

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Speaker 1: kind of person you're going to be. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. That's hard. I see your point, Mark, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I mean, go Susan's all I

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Speaker 1: have to say. I don't I don't like him. If

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Speaker 1: he wants to be friends with someone, I have someone

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Speaker 1: he can be friends with, so they might get along. Um,

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Speaker 1: Mark Scratch has had on that one. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that was. Don't worry about you're trying to hook

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Speaker 1: up Clayton with another guy friend. I know friends where

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Speaker 1: you're going, they'd be buddies. Yeah, they could grow up, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: totally braw and not apologize for they did. So, Oh

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Speaker 1: it's good. We're about to have Gabby Bernstein and she's

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Speaker 1: going to school us and make our lives better. So

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Speaker 1: stake a break and get her on. Oh Happy and day,

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Speaker 1: Oh happy day. When Jesus why why, that's why I

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Speaker 1: start singing it. I was like, why am I singing

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Speaker 1: happy days? Well, because Gabby Bernstein's book is called Happy Days?

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Speaker 1: How are you guys doing? You know what? Good? We

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Speaker 1: both had therapy today, so that was love therapy today too.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna. We all had therapy today. I kind of

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Speaker 1: love that because we're all in a nice clear mental

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Speaker 1: today was like my, I don't know you all therapy

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Speaker 1: session was we can all go around. We're on the room.

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Speaker 1: Mine which is mine is later later? Okay, well you

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Speaker 1: can say what you're bringing to therapy if you want,

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Speaker 1: but no, I Mine was like I just needed to

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Speaker 1: like own a bunch of stuff today to my therapist.

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Speaker 1: You know yeah got that. It feel good? Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: feels great because she goes you know what She's like.

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Speaker 1: Not many people can actually come into therapy and tell

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Speaker 1: like the full truth. So I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: think I told my therapist the truth for for like

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Speaker 1: a decade, right, same, I was like, she's the She's

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Speaker 1: the first therapist that I've ever been honest with. I've

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Speaker 1: always like I've always been like teetering on, Like it's

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Speaker 1: just I would leave out something or I wouldn't say,

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Speaker 1: well yeah I actually did do I did cheat on

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Speaker 1: that first or yeah you know what I mean. Like

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Speaker 1: I've always like teetered on like telling the truth because

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Speaker 1: you're now it's like all about where you're at. You

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Speaker 1: can tell the truth when you feel safe in your truth, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there you go. What was yours today? More a m

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Speaker 1: d R. Good? Good, Yeah, that's good helping you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I'm actually surprised because I'm kind of a very

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Speaker 1: what I'm not kind of I'm a very guarded person.

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Speaker 1: So I'm actually been surprised how well it's gone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that's that you gotta get because even though I

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Speaker 1: have a hard time with the m d Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think she was worried it wouldn't really work well with men.

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Speaker 1: It does. It works. Have you guys explained to your

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Speaker 1: listeners what E M d R is? Do you want

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Speaker 1: me to tell you? But but but re refresh our

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Speaker 1: listeners because yeah, it's it's so funny that we're starting

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Speaker 1: the conversation about what therapy was like today because literally

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Speaker 1: that's just exactly what I I just put out this

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Speaker 1: but happy days, which we'll talk about. And the joke

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Speaker 1: with my therapist is, who do you think is going

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Speaker 1: to play you in the movie? Because she's like the

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Speaker 1: number one role in this book other than me. You

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Speaker 1: know that through line of therapy throughout our life is

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Speaker 1: such a massive game changer for what we can show

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Speaker 1: up as now and so for E m d R,

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Speaker 1: which was a huge part of my therapy practice. I

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Speaker 1: will drive home what that is for everybody. It's eye

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Speaker 1: movement to sensitization and reprocessing. And so what happens is

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Speaker 1: when we stimulate the bilateral brain functioning, whether it's with

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Speaker 1: moving your eyes back and forth or having a buzzer

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Speaker 1: in either hand or a buzzer in either ear, the

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Speaker 1: brain opens up its window of tolerance to reprocess old traumas,

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Speaker 1: old phobias, patterns that we've been stuck in and literally

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Speaker 1: bring us out new depending on how big T the

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Speaker 1: trauma is, if it's a big T trauma or a

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Speaker 1: small TI trauma, it's a smaller, bigger T trauma like

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Speaker 1: being sexually abused or living through a catastrophic event or

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Speaker 1: having you know, alcoholic parent, or a small T trauma.

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Speaker 1: Could be often considered being bullied as a small TI trauma,

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Speaker 1: but that's actually, my opinion, a big T trauma. But

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Speaker 1: depending on how big or small the T in your trauma,

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Speaker 1: the longer may take with the m DR journey, but

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Speaker 1: it works. You feel relief immediately, Yeah, I did, I did.

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Speaker 1: I m dare with from anxiety and like that was

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Speaker 1: like a game changer because I like was having real

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Speaker 1: bad anxiety um a couple of years ago. But I

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Speaker 1: will also say to add to this point in which

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Speaker 1: I want to then go into your book, is um

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Speaker 1: my anxiety. I mean I still I had like a

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Speaker 1: minor one, but like, I have not had hardly any

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Speaker 1: anxiety post divorce. And I thought my anxiety would be

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Speaker 1: the most post divorce because I you know, I was

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Speaker 1: I'd be alone and this and all the things that

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Speaker 1: I feared. But it's like, I think when you remove

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Speaker 1: things that are I realized, I'm like, oh wow, that

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Speaker 1: was making me have a lot more anxiety. All the

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Speaker 1: like the toxicity and the you know, the all just

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Speaker 1: all of it, you know. So I think that was like,

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Speaker 1: we're really eye opening for me, Like, holy crap, I

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Speaker 1: don't have the anxiety that I had for the last

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Speaker 1: however many years. Well, yeah, you were living in a

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Speaker 1: state of hyper vigilance, he explained that, so you're you're

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Speaker 1: constantly on high alert, yes, and like in the trenches

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Speaker 1: and yeah, when you don't know, when you don't know

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Speaker 1: what you're going to get every day, right, So you know,

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Speaker 1: we all have have different attachment styles, and when our

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Speaker 1: attachment styles are activated in relationships, particularly romantic relationships, it

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Speaker 1: can really put us into a state of terror. Right.

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Speaker 1: So uh, let's let's say if you were feeling insecure

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Speaker 1: in that relationship, which we understand that insecure attachment, that

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment of what am I going to get today?

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Speaker 1: I gotta you know, fawn and cling to keep it

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Speaker 1: or I've got to I'm not gonna put words in

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Speaker 1: your mouth, but just speaking on behalf of the anxiously

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Speaker 1: attached trying to trying to stay, trying to hold something

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Speaker 1: that maybe falling apart or whatever it may be, puts

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Speaker 1: you into that loop of an anxiety. And in that

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Speaker 1: anxiety loop, you create this full blown body hyper vigilance.

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Speaker 1: The somatic experience of that is like constant state of stress,

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Speaker 1: constant state of terror, which then shows up in your body.

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Speaker 1: Is anxiety obviously may have maybe maybe it caused other

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Speaker 1: physical issues too. I mean that happens for many of us,

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Speaker 1: like gastro issues or neck issues or back pain. There's

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Speaker 1: so much that that comes out of that chronic state

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Speaker 1: of anxiety. Yeah, and I think I remember one of

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Speaker 1: my I mean, shoot, someone got her husband was a

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Speaker 1: saxotic snick and cancer, because it's just like what the

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Speaker 1: stress that anxiety causes on your body. And that's right,

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Speaker 1: it's right. And the chronic state of that chronic state

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Speaker 1: of of being in fight or flight. Yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: what am I going to have to find out today?

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Speaker 1: But Happy Days? Let's go to Happy Days. Tell me

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Speaker 1: everything about it. I'm so excited. I've ordered it on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: I cannot wait to read it. So what can I

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Speaker 1: what can mean? It's and actually what we're talking about

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Speaker 1: right here, right now. I mean, you guys went right

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Speaker 1: for It's Happy Days, but it's the guided path from

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Speaker 1: trauma to profound freedom and inner peace. In the book,

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Speaker 1: I talked about my journey of remembering. First of all,

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Speaker 1: when I first got clean and sober, I got sober,

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand why I was a cocaine addict. And

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Speaker 1: then putting down the drugs, I picked up workaholism, and

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Speaker 1: I poked up dependency and all of the other ways

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Speaker 1: that we run. And when I was thirty six years old,

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Speaker 1: I was by that point in my life, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd written six or seven books, I've been on Oprah,

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Speaker 1: I'd had all these big life accomplishments. But I was

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Speaker 1: dying on the inside. Well, I didn't know, and I

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Speaker 1: kept questioning, and I was brave enough to wonder, you know,

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Speaker 1: what is behind this? And I was having panic attacks

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Speaker 1: and meltdowns and cracking and cracking and cracking. And a

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Speaker 1: few months into that, I had a dream and the

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Speaker 1: dream was of being sexually abused as a child and

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Speaker 1: confronting it as an adult. When I woke up, I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, making way, never going to look at

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Speaker 1: that again. Don't want to talk about that again. No.

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Speaker 1: And a few days later in therapy, my therapist and

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Speaker 1: I started to talk about some things we've never spoken

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Speaker 1: about before, and I remembered I had the full body

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Speaker 1: remembrance of a dissociated memory of being abused as a child.

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Speaker 1: And so that was the moment of recognizing, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: what I've been running from, that's the impermissible, that's the

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Speaker 1: exiled part of me. And I was thirty six. And

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Speaker 1: that also was the day that I began the journey

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Speaker 1: of really the undoing, the undoing and the reprocessing through

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Speaker 1: e M d R, through somatic experiencing, through internal family

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Speaker 1: systems therapy, which I'd love to introduce you guys too,

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Speaker 1: if you don't know about it yet, through spiritual practices,

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Speaker 1: through body based work and all that's in the book. Literally,

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Speaker 1: this is your about you guys are gonna I'm so excited.

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Speaker 1: It's the whole, It's my whole guided path from trauma

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Speaker 1: to profound freedom and inner peace. And I keep saying

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Speaker 1: out loud that like, there's literally no freaking way in

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Speaker 1: hell that I would put my name on this cover

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Speaker 1: and my face on this cover with that subtitle if

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Speaker 1: I wasn't on the other side and living that subtitle

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Speaker 1: of profound freedom and inner peace. And so this is

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Speaker 1: like the trauma cliff notes of what to do when

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Speaker 1: you're in that moment of facing into your truth. But like, hey,

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. The other part of me is like how

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Speaker 1: do you get there? Though, Like I'm like what, like

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Speaker 1: tell It's like tell me that, like because it's like

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Speaker 1: I want to be the girl on the cover of

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Speaker 1: that book. You know that's actually really um beautiful vision

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Speaker 1: Janna is I want to be the girl in the

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Speaker 1: cover of that book. In the beginning, I actually asked

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Speaker 1: the reader to write a vision statement of like what

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Speaker 1: is it feel like? Where are you going? And so

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Speaker 1: that was kind of cool. That they just went there.

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Speaker 1: I We'll tell you. It begins with having the willingness

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Speaker 1: to accept and recognize that you've been running, that there's

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Speaker 1: some ways that you've been running. An anxiety is actually

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Speaker 1: another form of running from the pain and the suffering.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of a what in internal family systems is

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Speaker 1: known as a protector part, and to witness and notice

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Speaker 1: all of the ways that we've been acting out, whether

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Speaker 1: it be addictive patterns or uh. Because truly, you know,

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Speaker 1: underneath all addiction is trauma. I'm sure you're very familiar

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Speaker 1: with that. So we build up all these coping mechanisms,

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Speaker 1: which I refer to with my training with i f

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Speaker 1: S as protector parts protection. So work ahol is um,

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Speaker 1: drug addiction, sex addiction, love addiction, UM, anxiety, these even

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Speaker 1: physical pain is like another protector part to avoid having

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Speaker 1: to face the exiled, impermissible child, parts of shame and

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Speaker 1: trauma big to your small t And so the first

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Speaker 1: step is really witnessing and noticing all the ways that

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Speaker 1: you've been habitually in these patterns of numbing down, pushing down,

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Speaker 1: and anesthetizing the impermissible, and then goes into the chapter

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Speaker 1: of becoming brave enough to wonder, and I very gently

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Speaker 1: take the reader by the hand and just help them

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Speaker 1: begin to acknowledge and notice what might be underneath that suffering.

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Speaker 1: And all along the way, I'm constantly guiding back to

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Speaker 1: different therapeutic models so that they can get the resources

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Speaker 1: and support and take it further and talk about how

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Speaker 1: trauma affects the body and the somatic experience, and how

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Speaker 1: we hide behind the body. I go into a lot

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Speaker 1: of body based practices in the book, and in the

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Speaker 1: next chapters that come, I talk about internal family systems

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Speaker 1: therapy and how we can reparent ourselves. I also, of

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Speaker 1: course talk about E m d R and I give

422
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: E m DR practices that somebody can do in real time.

423
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: I'll give you one right now. So if you're not,

424
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: if you don't have the privilege of having an m

425
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: d R therapist yet or ever, here's a practice. So

426
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: it's called rage on the page, where you journal for

427
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: twenty minutes. This is based on the work of doctor Well.

428
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: The journaling method is that my girlfriend Nicole gave me

429
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: this method based on the work of John Sarno, who

430
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: was a mind body doctor that really focused on the

431
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: psycho somatic effects of our trauma, and so meditate for

432
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, excuse me, journal for twenty minutes. It's called

433
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: I called it rage on the page. So get your

434
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: out for twenty minutes in your journal, and then meditate

435
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes for the reprocessing, all the while listening

436
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: to E M d R music. So I've got a hold.

437
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: We can put this in your show notes, but I

438
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: have like a whole playlist for the M d R

439
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: music and letting it just just be that bilateral brain stimulation,

440
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: back and forth, back and forth, back and forth while

441
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: you're raging on the page getting it all out, and

442
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: then in the twenty minutes of meditation reprocessing. So that's

443
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: just a practice in there. That's an example of many

444
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: practices in the book. But that's when that people could

445
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: begin to do, and museums you are safely on their own.

446
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: I've been I've been writing a bunch that would be helpful.

447
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: I'll incorporate those other two things because I think I

448
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: leave it just with the rage, and I don't I

449
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: don't then recover M M. And you're writing a book

450
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: right now, I cannot confirm nor deny. Okay, So when

451
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: in your lifetime you decided to write a book. I

452
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: really recommend doing some of the E m DR meditations

453
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: when you're done with your writing process, because when you write,

454
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: I know, whatever book he writes going to be very

455
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: deep and it can also be re traumatizing and triggering

456
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: to do so, so just make sure you take care

457
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: of yourself with that kind of music afterwards, and obviously

458
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: like book ending with therapy and things like that. Writing

459
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: this book for me was extremely activating, and it was

460
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: for activating for all my loved ones and publishers and

461
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: everyone that that that read it. You know, read you, guys,

462
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: the introduction, just for a sect, like three paragraphs, just

463
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: to give you a sense of what happened when I

464
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: wrote this book. You know what might come introduction, the

465
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 1: truth about this book. We're anxious for you, Gaby, said

466
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: my publisher after reading the first past of the manuscript.

467
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: It feels too vulnerable, they continued, You're revealing one difficult

468
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: moment after the next. You're not showing your true strength.

469
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: My ability to be this vulnerable is my true strength,

470
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: I responded. The conversation carried on with several moments of tears,

471
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: passionate explanations, defending the manuscript mixed with mutual agreement and love. Well,

472
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: this is a challenging conversation to have. It was necessary.

473
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: This book is different from the eighth that came before.

474
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: This book reveals parts of me that I had never

475
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: known were there until I started this writing process. This

476
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: book tells the story of how to survive and thrive.

477
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: This is my story of recovering from trauma. Wow. OK,

478
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: I'll remember forget when my my editor called me because

479
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: I had it. We had a second book deal with

480
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: Mimi and Max, and then obviously that went away, and

481
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: I told her what I wanted to write, and she's like, well,

482
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 1: I think you should wait until you're like happy and

483
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: in a new relationship. And I was like, I don't

484
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: want to touch on like a guy in my next book,

485
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to be like, oh look at me.

486
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 1: I'm happy now, I'm in a relationship and I've got

487
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: it all figured out because of X. And So I

488
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: think there's something so beautiful about like the vulnerability that

489
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: you share, and I think people are scared of that.

490
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you're weak or you're not strong.

491
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: It means that you're so freaking strong. You know because

492
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: you're sharing it and you're you're relating to so many

493
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: people like M. I think what I love about is

494
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: like when I whenever I read book, so I'm like,

495
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to know how just like how you

496
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: figured it out, Like I want to know, like what

497
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: you went through, M, and then how you got to

498
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: like where you're at now, and then also like I

499
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: also want to know too from you, Gabby, like yes,

500
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: you have happy days and you've worked through your unfortunate

501
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: trauma and your anxieties. But it's like I also want

502
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: to know, like I've been in therapy for however, fourteen

503
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: plus years, and it's like I also want to know that,

504
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: like it's normal that things still come up and then

505
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: I still have to face it and like I'm not

506
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: just like oh I'm great and I'm free and I'm

507
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: so happy, you know what I mean, Like because I'm

508
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: like I can't like because or maybe I didn't, I

509
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: don't know, Like I feel like I'm gonna forever be

510
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: growing and healing and learning and maybe things will pass

511
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: trigger me and stuff like that, Like yeah, I guess

512
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: I can say that while I can put my face

513
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: on this cover and say that I am on the

514
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: other side. I still have therapy at tonight. Sure, I'm

515
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: still shining the crystal that is me. I'm still focusing

516
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: on strengthening the practices that I have in my internal

517
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: landscape and being able to really use life as an

518
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: opportunity to get closer and closer to these methods and

519
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: live them and know them in my heart. And I

520
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: don't think that we stop, but I do think that

521
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: there is there is a light at the end of

522
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: the tunnel, because I do know what it was like

523
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: living in trauma and PTSD and working through it and

524
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: not thinking that there was a light at the end

525
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: of the tunnel, not thinking that there was ever a

526
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: way I could feel safe in my body, not believing

527
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: that I could ever feel safe in my letting people

528
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: in more closely, being more vulnerable with close people in

529
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: my life. And now I can. So I really want

530
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: to give voice to recovery and to what it looks

531
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: like to be on the other side and then really acknowledge,

532
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, like I've been in sober recovery for sixteen years,

533
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: I still ard of myself as an alcoholic and a

534
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: drug addict, because we don't want to forget where we

535
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: came from. We don't want to forget who we are

536
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: capable of. But I have addressed the root cause condition

537
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: of that addiction and being on the other side of

538
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: the addiction and now the trauma. I I want to

539
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: remember and I want to stay closed and I want

540
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: to when I would say, when things get good, keep

541
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: keep working harder because you want to really maintain and

542
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: sustain that level of peace and inner freedom. So is

543
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: it when someone says, like, you know, to stop, you know,

544
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: bringing it the past and like it's shameful and stuff,

545
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: so that it's like when someone is still has their

546
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: shame ahold of them, Like what does that? What does

547
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: that mean? Does that mean that they you know, they

548
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: haven't worked through it or mm hmmm um. There's a

549
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: chapter in the book called Speaking the Unspeakable, and it's

550
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: all about shame and it helps the reader recognize their

551
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: shame response because we all have different types of shame

552
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: response is depending on maybe we have we have many

553
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: I can I can share with you some of them.

554
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: And facing our shame is the most shame is the

555
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: most impermissible feeling, and so facing into that shame can

556
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: be horrifying, terrifying, I did a workshop on this last week,

557
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: and it was like people got really triggered and activated

558
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: when they were just even acknowledged that shame and gave

559
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: voice to it. And so we have these different ways

560
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: of avoiding and pushing and running from the shame. So

561
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: denying the shame, right saying like oh that never happened,

562
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: I'm fine, or things were a lot better than I

563
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: than I than I said, or anything like that, right

564
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: attacking others. So when we feel shame triggered and we

565
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: go into that shame response, what our initial response could

566
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: be to go attack back, because we don't want to

567
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: face what's within, so projecting out what we don't want

568
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: to look at, and there's attack yourself. Right on My

569
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: mantra for many many years was I'm a piece of MHM.

570
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: That was literally the what I said to myself on

571
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: a daily basis, even while writing multiple self help books.

572
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: I still but I want to really identify this because

573
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: that's what my publishers were saying that like, we're nervous

574
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: because you're being so vulnerable, you're not sharing your true strength.

575
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: And they were right in a way, because I wasn't

576
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: showing that I was able to be strong, and I

577
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: was able to be a presence and a source of

578
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: light in people's lives. And I was able to be

579
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,479
Speaker 1: an expression of spiritual truth and be a spiritual teacher

580
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: and show up in those ways while going through so much. You're, Jenny,

581
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: You're a great example of that. You know, It's like

582
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: you were still in the pursuit of freedom and sharing

583
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: the truth and bringing light even in the midst of

584
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: some of your darkest moments. And I find it so

585
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: fascinating that we're back here right now. Guys. When we

586
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: first spoke was like the week that you were talking

587
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: about your divorce. Yeah, and and you know, I will

588
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: say it's then, I mean, it's it's almost been a

589
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: year since my divorce, and just like seeing the light

590
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: and seeing how different I am, It's like there is light,

591
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: but in that moment, you're like, there's no light. I'm

592
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: gonna be in this pain forever. But even your bravery

593
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: to speak out back soon, Um, but you're even your

594
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: bravery is just to tell the truth about where you

595
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: were at was a step closer to that light. You

596
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: don't realize that in the moment when you're in the

597
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: thick of it. Yeah, But being able to give voice

598
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: to these truths. Yeah, how do you deal with UM

599
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: walking through this in your relationship? Is it hard? Yeah? Yeah,

600
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: you know. Listen, my my husband edits my books UM

601
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: after my my editor at the publishing how but in

602
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: house editor, and then it goes to Zach and then

603
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: it goes to the publisher. And he was really triggered

604
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: by this book. I talk about my suicidal, my experience

605
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: with suicidal postpartum depression. That was like super activating for

606
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: him because it was trauma for him to living through that.

607
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: And truly the fifteen years that we've been together, he's

608
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: lived through my trauma journey and that's also traumatizing for him.

609
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: So we do a lot of work. We do a

610
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: lot of work on our relationship. We do a lot

611
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: of work. UM. We practice internal family systems therapy, which

612
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: I'm trained in now, and we have this powerful practice

613
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: of being able to witness each other in these different

614
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: parts of who we are. So when I'm seeing him activated,

615
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: I can think, oh, that's a child part that's super

616
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: activated right now, and rather than raging at him, I

617
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: can have compassion towards him. That's major. Yeah, what would

618
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: be UM when I was talking about therapist to day too.

619
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: I was telling her, like, you know, it's just it's

620
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: hard being in a relationship post a healthy relationship after everything,

621
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: and how do you, like, what would you say to

622
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: like me or other women that like are in that

623
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: next relationship um to like not let the anxiety of

624
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: a what if? Or I don't want to be duped again,

625
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: or like um or like manifesting or I don't know.

626
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: I just I feel like it's just like really hard

627
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: to like feel like it's real. Sure, so, so a

628
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: lot of it is about forgiving your ex, forgiving my ax. Uh.

629
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something, Gabby. Let me say this. I

630
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: do not want an apology from him anymore. That's what

631
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: I wanted for like a year. Mm hmm. I do

632
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: not want an apology from him anymore because I don't

633
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: I won't say, I won't believe it, and be I

634
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: don't think he'll ever apologize. I kind of got into

635
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: a place now where I actually don't even want it

636
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: and I can say that and like, really you mean that, right? Great,

637
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: But I do have a hard time for giving someone

638
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: that doesn't acknowledge the abuse. Wow. Yeah, that's how that's tough. Yeah,

639
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: I guess forgiveness comes from the seat of compassion because

640
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: and I'm not suggesting that you push yourself into this,

641
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: but it does help in your future relationships and your

642
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: current new relationship because forgiveness dissolves the history, because when

643
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: we don't have forgiveness, we're taking the past and projecting

644
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: it onto the present and the future. Forgiveness we can

645
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 1: dissolve those past experiences and be present in the present

646
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: without bringing the baggage with us. So the one of

647
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: the clearest pathways to forgiveness is through compassion. And so

648
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: I'm going to speak about your ax, and I hope

649
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: this isn't triggering, but I'm gonna speak about him as

650
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: a as someone I know, not I don't literally know

651
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: him at all, but someone who I have tremendous compassion for.

652
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: And you may not be here yet, Jenna, right, but

653
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: I just want to speak on behalf of one addict

654
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: to another. When we become addicted, we are in what

655
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: is known as like a firefighter protect or state, and

656
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 1: and we are doing whatever we can to numb out

657
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: impermissible feelings from our history. Go ahead, I was just

658
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: gonna say, that's not what I want him to like,

659
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: that's not the piece that I've already forgiven him. I

660
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: forgive him on the that added part. It's the other stuff.

661
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: It's not being able to own up to his his

662
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: ways of being. Is that correct? The yeah, the like

663
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: the abusiveness behind it all. Let's take that even further

664
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: than someone who could be that abusive and not own

665
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: up to it is seriously suffering mother. Someone who could

666
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: be that abusive and not own up to it and

667
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: not care for the mother of his children is in

668
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: a extreme amount of pain and suffering, and it is

669
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: extraordinarily terror, terror filled with terror at the fact of

670
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: facing those truths. Or maybe I'm just crazy because he

671
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: seems to be happy. Well, listen, one of the ways

672
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: that we pushed down our shame is denial and dissociation.

673
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: And so this this man, there's no way that he's

674
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: not living with a lot of impermissible shame. And so

675
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: his way of coping, potentially and God bless him, is

676
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: through denial and association, creating a new storyline. It wasn't

677
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: that bad. I wasn't that bad. Everything is okay. I'm

678
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: going to show myself that everything is not bad. That

679
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: was straight up to And then also Another of shame

680
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: response is to attack back, to blame and shame the other,

681
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: because there's his extraordinary shame is too painful and too

682
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: impermissible to feel into that all he can do to

683
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: survive is to blame and shame you. So my point

684
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: is not that that that this is dubbed for you, right,

685
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: That's not my point. That's like, you've been through so much,

686
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: you are so strong, you are so brave. My My

687
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: point is that he is severely suffering, so to have compassion,

688
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: which then leads to forgiveness. If he just started to

689
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: practice to lean into what he must how hard it

690
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: must be to live in that shame. Okay, I can

691
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: look right away. You just shifted instantly like wow, that sucks, right,

692
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: that really really sucks. That really sucks, right, like you

693
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: know right now we all want to like and it's

694
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: not excusing. I want to say, it's still not an

695
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: it's not excusing anything. It's not like yeah, forgiveness does

696
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: not mean that you excuse the behaviors. Forgive. It means

697
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: that the behavior is no longer run your world. Yes, yes, yes,

698
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: yes like that and feel like you used to. I mean,

699
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: I understand it's different now because you're not divorced anymore,

700
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: but you were really good at being in that place

701
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: for him and being compassionate. I mean, I mean, you're

702
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: divorced now, you were not divorced then, but you it

703
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: was so easy for you. In my perspective, I felt

704
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: like it was so easy for you to have compassion

705
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: for him in the midst of all of this and

706
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: to feel you would talk about his shame and you

707
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: understood that he was in his shame. So I just

708
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: feel like, now if you could in a way put

709
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: yourself back there and kind of go back to where

710
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: you did have compassion for him, um, I think that

711
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: could be relatively easy for you, honestly, because you were

712
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: very compassionate towards him, Yeah, and also understanding his shame

713
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: response and having this new level of awareness of like, oh,

714
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: this guy is living in so much shame that he's

715
00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: using multiple different shame responses to to stay alive much, Right,

716
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: So he's got his attack back and shame and blame

717
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: to you so he doesn't have to feel what's in

718
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: And then he's also got his denial and dissociation and

719
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: he definitely has attacking himself, which does not share openly

720
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: or publicly right, So he's probably carrying all the shame responses.

721
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: There's more, and so just to sort of have a

722
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: greater level of awareness of the suffering and the human

723
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: condition of suffering and the ways that it plays out

724
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: is a path to forgiveness because the more we understand others,

725
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: the more we can recognize ourselves in them, and the

726
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: more that we can have compassion towards them. Yeah, I

727
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: like that a lot. I think that's that's really good.

728
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna write about that one like that one.

729
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: I know it's not an easy answer. I mean, shoot,

730
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: I have been searching for it for years and obviously

731
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: it's gotten better, but you know, struggling with anxiety and

732
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: I hold myself back from doing things that I want

733
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: to do. Like, for example, I'm up for something. I

734
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: can't say what it is, but it would really really

735
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: really push me mentally physically. And the one piece that

736
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it is I'm like, well,

737
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: what if I have an anxiety attacker of my anxiety

738
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: and I can't do it? So it's like, is there

739
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 1: something that like and I know anxiety was just fear

740
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: of is that it is a fear of the unknown

741
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: or fear of what's would you want to work? Okay,

742
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm trained in I f S, which is

743
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: which is a model about getting connected to these protector

744
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: parts of ourselves and helping them relax. Would you want

745
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: to do like a two minute practice with me to

746
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: just talk to the anxiety? Is that comfortable or safe

747
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: for you? Right now? It's not about going into the anxiety,

748
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: it's just kind of getting to know what it needs. Sure, Okay,

749
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: we'll be safe, don't worry. Yeah, it's super safe. Actually,

750
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: so where do you notice the it's almost right now

751
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: that we have the fear of the anxiety, we don't

752
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: even have to talk about the anxiety. And seeing the

753
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: fear of the anxiety not correct. So let's just talk

754
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: to the fear of the anxiety. Mm hm right, where

755
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 1: do you notice that in your body? It's like an

756
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: elephants sitting on me, elephant sitting on you? Okay, really

757
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: good descriptive work. You don't thank you? And this fear

758
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: where is it in the room? Like, is it next

759
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: to you? Is it in you? Is it? It's all

760
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: in my chest, in your chest? Here the box, it's

761
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: a box. It's a rector? Good? Okay? Is there a

762
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: color red? It was black turned red because I think

763
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: you're shirt okay, and now just check in with it.

764
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that is being revealed about this

765
00:44:54,360 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: fear of anxiety? So yes and no? Okay. The only

766
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 1: reason I say yes is because like my like first

767
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: past relationship or whatever, because he was on top of me.

768
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: And so whenever I feel like my chest tight like

769
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: that anxiety, it just I go. It triggers me back

770
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: to that moment of like I can't escape. So I'm

771
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: like I'm stuck and I'm trapped, which, yeah, like I've

772
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: just trapped. Okay, Okay, So the part of you that

773
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: feels trapped, can it? Can it step aside for a

774
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: moment and just like have a coffee outside, we're gonna okay,

775
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: let's go have some tea and we'll talk to you later, okay,

776
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 1: Because you want to talk to the fear right now,

777
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 1: bring your attention back to that fear and just notice

778
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: anything else that comes up about it. Anything. Is there

779
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: an age? Is their gender? You think about the fear

780
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: of anxiety? Nothing else? Okay? Is it just sort of

781
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: an energy? How would you describe it? I think it's

782
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: just like, um, it's just kind of there. It's like

783
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: a little like devil, you know, it's like a devil

784
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: on the right shoulder because it's like because I've done

785
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: so much freaking work about therapy, but it's still there's

786
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: still like a little piece just like always hanging on,

787
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: like not letting me fully live like without any But

788
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 1: I'm like, does everyone have like, don't you have anxieties

789
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: or no, like things that will hold you back that

790
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: you'd be scared to a part of you right now, Jenna,

791
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: that's coming up. That's that's trying to deflect. Can we

792
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: ask the deflector to go have some tetooth. I'm not

793
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: gonna get the deflector is gonna have a smoke? If

794
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: that's a flector, that's a great idea. An American spirit

795
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: yellow pack. Oh I miss it, beautiful, enjoy it now?

796
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: Does this part of you the fear of anxiety? How

797
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 1: do you, Joanna feel towards this part of you? Oh?

798
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: I hate it? You hate it? Okay because it just

799
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: makes me feel like weak, you know, and like yeah,

800
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: I hate it. I don't I don't like even like

801
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: bringing it up because it's like Okay, yeah, I don't

802
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: like fear. Does the fear of the anxiety no that

803
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: you're here with it? M yeah, m hm. How does

804
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: it feel towards you? Were pals? Repels you? No? No,

805
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: we're pals. You guys are pals. Okay, okay, you're like,

806
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: am I your most complicated case ever? No? Not at all.

807
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 1: So you and your anxiety are pals, but you joanna

808
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: feel towards it? You hate it? Yeah? Okay, Okay. I

809
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: want to send a little bit of compassion and love

810
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: to your fear of anxiety, your fear of the anxiety,

811
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: because it's working really hard for it's working really hard

812
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: to keep you safe from impermissible anxiety. I just wanted

813
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: to send a thank you to it for its efforts. Okay.

814
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: If that fear of anxiety wasn't doing this extreme job

815
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: of just you know, making you crazy and making you

816
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: hate it and working so hard, what else would it

817
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: be doing right now? I mean, if it wasn't there,

818
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: I would not I mean, I give it, um, I

819
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 1: give it energy. Okay, so I'd be giving you back

820
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: some energy, but it wasn't so extreme. Yeah, yeah, okay,

821
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: what else would this part of you be doing? If

822
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: it wasn't having to be in this extreme all of

823
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: try keeping you an alert. I mean, it could it

824
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: could be like my support mm hmm hm beautiful. So

825
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: if it was supporting you, what is that? What does

826
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: that look like to you? It would basically be like

827
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: my It would basically be like you got this, Like

828
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: you're going to be fine, Like nothing's gonna happen, and

829
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: if it does, we'll work through it. M beautiful, Like

830
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: you can get on the expressway and out of a

831
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: panic attack, you will be fine, you know. Okay, beautiful? Okay,

832
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: because I still can't drive on an expressway, but I'm like,

833
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a panic attack and I'm would be

834
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: trapped in So if it was supporting you, is there

835
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 1: a place in your world that you feel supported? Yeah?

836
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: My friends with your friends. Okay, could you invite this

837
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: fear of anxiety to queendown? Yeah? Yeah, sit on the

838
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: sofa with you guys and like, drink some wine and

839
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: just chill. Can you just visualize that for just a

840
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 1: second as we wrap up this process, just notice what

841
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: it feels like to bring the fear of anxiety to

842
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: your crew of your your girl going and your people.

843
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: How does it feel when it's with you. Guys, I

844
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: kind of want to love on it. M there we go, Janna,

845
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: thank you when you want to love on it. What

846
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 1: would you say towards it? You're okay, You're fine, like

847
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: I got you, Like it's all gonna be okay, You're safe.

848
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmmmmm, you're safe. Okay. Can you make a commitment

849
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: to your fear of anxiety that the next time you

850
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: notice it you can bring it to the sofa and

851
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 1: you're in your sweats and your girls and your wine

852
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: and you can hang out and just visualize what that

853
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: would look like. Yeah, I'll do that or I'll damn

854
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: me one of the two. Maybe for the sake of

855
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: this moment, you make the commitment. Okay, yes, yes, yes,

856
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: I'll bring it into queendom. And so right now you

857
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 1: can feel into that feeling of feeling love towards it. Yeah,

858
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: now my chest isn't any There we go. There we go.

859
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: Thanks Gab God, I love you. Hey, we always you know,

860
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: you're so fun to do work with, Like last time

861
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: we tapped and now super open and what you did

862
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: just explain to your listener which has happened so by

863
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: by noticing and giving voice to and focusing it on

864
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: the part that part of you, and seeing it as

865
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: something separate from you, not you, it's not you, it's

866
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: a part of you, and being and giving voice to it,

867
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: and asking all those other protectors that we're trying to

868
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: get in the way to step aside and of a

869
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: coffee and a cigarette or continue a cigarette. We were

870
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: able to have a conversation and connect to and create

871
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: a direct line of connection from your adult, resourced, undamaged

872
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 1: self to the fear part. M And the same way

873
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: you would speak to your children is how you were

874
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: speaking at the end to this part, like you're good,

875
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: I got you, I'm going to take care of you.

876
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: You're safe with me. And so this is a process

877
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: of becoming your own internal parent and bringing that fear

878
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: back to safety. The more you really create that established

879
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: direct line of connection to that fear, you won't have

880
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 1: a panic attack, because often panic attacks come on because

881
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: of the fear of the panic attack. Really just got

882
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: to work with the fear and just invited to come

883
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: back to the couch and just take care of it,

884
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: extend compassion towards it. Gabby, I love you. Um our

885
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: listeners tell them everything. The book where they can get it. Obviously,

886
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: I just got mine on Amazon, but go for it.

887
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: And by the way, I mean, I must have a

888
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: book on the way to you guys, So just stay

889
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 1: stay open to whatever is in the mail. Um um, yeah,

890
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 1: you know the books on Amazon. It's it's called Happy Days,

891
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: The Guided Path from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace.

892
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: It's never been more of a timely topic than today.

893
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: And I believe that we all deserve to no one,

894
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: that we're not alone in our suffering, and to to

895
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: be given the guided path out. And that's my prayer,

896
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: my intention for this book. I really hope it helps

897
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: people create a lot of serenity and self soothing and support.

898
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: And then they can find you at on Instagram. I'm

899
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: at Dear. I met at Gabby Burns you on Instagram.

900
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: I have a podcast that I called Dear Gabby where

901
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: I worked on people like I've had the privilege of

902
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 1: doing here with Jetta, And yeah, that's where you can

903
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: find me. All right, Gab, thank you so much. I

904
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: appreciate you. I love you, sweetheart. Thank you appreciate your heart. Also,

905
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 1: one thing, I'm coming. This is not for the show,

906
00:53:53,360 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: but I'm coming to when thinking April. I'll send you that, Okay, yeah,

907
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: send it to me, text to me. It would be

908
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: fucking awesome to hang out with you. I would love it. Yeah,

909
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: something Tina cigarette, Tina cigarette. You know, I'm not not opposed, Okay,

910
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: so long. That would be if there was like something,

911
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 1: if I was like at a party and like everyone

912
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: was like doing coke in the corner, I'd be like,

913
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: can I have a cigarette? There? You go? Well, let

914
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: let me know. Seriously, I'd love to see you, fine,

915
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: love to hug you. Okay, friends, definitely, I'm gonna make

916
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: sure your books are over there for you guys. Why

917
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 1: I ordered one too. But I love you, Okay, okay, okay,

918
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: all right, girl. I love her. She's so sweet. She's great. Yeah,

919
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: she's great. She's just got like a really good heart.

920
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: You know, like she's been through some stuff and I

921
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: feel like you can either go like one way or

922
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: the other. Sure, and like obviously she's taken, you know,

923
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: she's used her pain for good and help helping others.

924
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: So there's so much hope in that, you know. I Mean,

925
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: it's just really good for people to see that there's

926
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: light at the end of the tunnel. But I also

927
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: like to know that, like it's not just like, oh yeah,

928
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: like I don't have any struggles anymore, because that's like

929
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: where I'm getting Like, I'm like, are you like every day? Well,

930
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure not. But I think people really do have

931
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: to see or they're not going to put in the work.

932
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: Like I know, for me, if I didn't believe that

933
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: there was some kind of light at the end of

934
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: the tunnel, I don't know that I would put in

935
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: all the work, you know what I mean. It's almost

936
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: like being on a diet totally right, Yeah, absolutely. I

937
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: meant if you heard my stomach growling the entire time,

938
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: so hungry, I'm so hungry. I mean I'm eating, don't worry,

939
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: it's just time for me to eat. But I'm for you,

940
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: it's like, right, it's like that same like you have

941
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: to know that there's like because if not, that's what

942
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: you're just going to keep. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard, it's definitely. Yeah,

943
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 1: you've got to put the work in. For a lot

944
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: of people, you have to know, you have to have

945
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: that hope of what's at the end of it. Yes,

946
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: it's still going to be struggling even if you lose

947
00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 1: the weight, You're still going to struggle and you're still

948
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: going to have hards and you're still gonna but you

949
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: have I feel like people have to hear that part

950
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: of it or they're not going to put in the work. Yeah. Yeah,

951
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 1: I mean I have to hear and I know what

952
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: you're saying because you want to hear but you were

953
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: just fixed and everything is just better because I've been

954
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: doing this for how long and I'm not fixed? You know.

955
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: I I hear you. But I think for a lot

956
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: of people, especially new to therapy, they have to hear

957
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: that hopeful yes, like what is going to end up

958
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: at the end for me? I mean, I mean same.

959
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: That's like why I like read books, and that's why

960
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 1: I like you know, because it's like I want to

961
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: know that, like things can work out from bad things.

962
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: I want to know that, like and which is like

963
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: why you know, I like sharing. It's like, hey, look

964
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: at like you can move on from divorce. It's like

965
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: but in the moment when you have your friends, Catherine

966
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: mean like you're going to get through this, I'm like no,

967
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm rob so hard to see it in like moment, Yeah, absolutely,

968
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: because it's like I'm sure. Like it's almost like, like

969
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: I said, go back to going back to like starting

970
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: or you don't want to start it because it's like

971
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: it's hard to like start, it's hard to start therapy.

972
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: It's hard to start. Like but there is light at

973
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel, and that is I think

974
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: they're like driving home, there is hope, there's there or

975
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: why would you keep going or why would you start?

976
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: Because if there's not a light or hope at the end,

977
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: then who would start anything? But you know what, it's

978
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: almost easier to start than to keep going sometimes in

979
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: both senses, the diet and the therapy, because it's hard

980
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: work and yeah and yeah, yeah, It's like I was

981
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: talking to a girlfriend at dance and you know, they're

982
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: having like some issues in their marriage, and she was like,

983
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: it's easy, not easy to start. It started and it's good,

984
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,479
Speaker 1: but then it's like to continue like doing the things

985
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: that we need or whatever. It's like then you just

986
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: kind of fall back or fall off the diet or

987
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: you fall off you know, the therapy or whatever, and

988
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: it's like then you're back to like the dark again. Yeah, exactly,

989
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna get through. There's gonna be light at the

990
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: end of the tunnel, because there is there always is.

991
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: I've never seen a tunnel where it doesn't, I mean

992
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: unless you're like on the I mean shoot, even in

993
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: shaw Shank there you got through the tunnel like he

994
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: dug the tunnel and then there was there was I'm serious,

995
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: there was the nice man outdoors and you know. But anyways,

996
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: all right, squirrel moments. So you guys, wee bye. Actually

997
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: just got her book in the mail, and so I'm

998
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: pretty pumped to start reading that because I was hooked.

999
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm hooked by the intro. It's gonna be good, very good. Um. Okay,

1000
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: so there's exciting things happening. Wine Down is going on

1001
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: the road. Got some Nashville, Atlanta, in Chicago dates. So

1002
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: go to Jane Kramer dot what Calm's It's not like

1003
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: that has been your website for at least ten eleven years,

1004
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: is it? Is it on the website Jane Kramer dot

1005
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: com com backslash tour? Oh there you go, thanks manager. Um. So, yeah,

1006
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be it's gonna be

1007
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: a good time taking some some girls out. I have

1008
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: a follow up on something we talked about earlier the Karen's.

1009
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: It turns out Karen's are not the most likely people

1010
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: to exhibit Karen like behavior. Maybe the name is not fair,

1011
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: That's what I said. Karen's research says that the most

1012
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: Karen like behavior goes the women named Louise. I was

1013
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: just gonna say, my daughter's middle name is Anne and Jane,

1014
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: and my middle name Mark. Okay, stop being a Mark.

1015
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: We're going to start Jane. I don't well, the male

1016
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: version of the Karen is the Kent. So wait, hold on,

1017
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: did you say Jane, Louise and Anne? Is that all

1018
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: your name? My middle name is Anne used to Ramsey's

1019
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: middle name is Jane? Is Louise? Sounds like y'all? Are karens?

1020
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: Sounds like it? Two definite press parents. Well good too.

1021
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: It's good to know to all those people out there,

1022
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 1: looks like you're the real Karen near defense, the real

1023
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: karens Um all right, I have nothing else. Talk to

1024
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:23,919
Speaker 1: you guys next week. Fight