WEBVTT - Gladiator with Emma Southon 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:02.160 On the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.720 The questions asked if movies have women and them, are 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.440 all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:13.720 have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zeph and bast start changing 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:15.239 it with the Bechdel. 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:22.120 Cast from the studio that brought you Shrek. It's the 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:26.960 Gladiator episode of the Bechdel Cast. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:28.680 My name is Caitlin Durante. 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.400 Well, aunt, did I just learn something? 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:32.240 I mean it's dream Works. 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:33.600 It's dream Works. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.000 Yeah, that's so wait. 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.159 Yeah, I don't want to introduce myself yet. That is 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:46.239 shocking information. Why would this be dreamed? I wow? So 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.199 they really they really like two roads diverged in a 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.880 wood for them, and they were like, we're going Shrek. 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.920 We're putting our money on Shrek. And honestly, I think 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:59.040 that that was the right decision for the culture ultimately. 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:00.080 Sure. 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.560 Yeah, yeah, I mean we're just getting Gladiator too. Meanwhile, 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:08.399 Shrek five wrapped, it's wrapped. Yes, I don't know, I've 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.800 made that up. I know it's been announced. You don't 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:16.160 see Sutton Foster starring and Gladiator the Musical on Broadway? 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.080 Do we see her playing Princess Fiona on Broadway. We 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.400 sure do to your straight nominated for a Tony Whoa. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:23.679 But enough about Shrek. 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:30.480 I can't believe that Gladiator shocking, shocking, shocking, I would 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.240 say shocking, Caitlin and I did see Shrek in thirty 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.959 five millimeter, which should not be a sentence that's so ridiculous, 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:38.800 But we did. 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.199 We invested for like, no DVD. We need to see 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:43.000 it in the raw. 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:44.640 Yeah, on the big screen. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.600 It was awesome. It was literally I think the audience 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.600 was split in two of like irony pilled, childless millennials 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:56.600 and normal families. And we were all having a great time. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.920 Oh yeah, nine year olds and thirty nine year old 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.440 we're all rocking. It was great, ten out of ten. 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.560 And also Gladiator. 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:07.200 And also Gladiator. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.920 Now I can't believe that. Okay, a rich conversation already. 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.800 My name is Jamie Loftis. This is our show that 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.720 takes a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:22.079 feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.560 point for discussion, which is hilarious for this movie specifically, 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.440 but just for the sake of argument. Caitlin, what is 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:29.200 the Bechdel test. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:33.200 Uh, real quick here, because spoiler alert, the movie doesn't 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:34.919 pass even a little. 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.839 Bit, it will not come into play. There's not even 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.240 an argument for like, well, could it be like no. 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.919 Right, It's just a media metric that we use to 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:48.080 initiate larger conversations about representation. There are many versions of it. 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:52.200 Ours is do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:54.720 Do they speak to each other? And is there conversation 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.480 about something other than a man? And we like it 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.400 when it's a you know, narratively significant conversation and not 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.520 just throw away dialogue. But again, it won't even come 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:11.440 close for this movie. But we will have a rich 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.640 discussion nonetheless with a wonderful guest that we're very excited about. 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.720 Gosh, yeah, she's incredible. And this movie is the most 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.880 fathers and sons coded movie I think I've ever seen. 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.840 There's so many gosh, so many fathers and so many sons, 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.000 so many sons. Enough already enough with the fathers and 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:34.320 the sons. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.240 Yes, which is why we brought on this guest who 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.240 frames Roman history a little bit differently. 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:39.480 So. 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.120 Our guest is a historian and writer, author of many books. 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.120 One of which is entitled A rem of One's Own, 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.120 A History of the Roman Empire in twenty one women, 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:57.200 it's Emma Suthan. Hello, welcome, Hi, thank you, thanks for 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:57.720 being here. 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.440 Oh my gosh, I'm so excited that we have you 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.640 on the show. Gosh, I mean, I have so many questions, 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.640 but especially because was it just last year, I flak 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:09.880 time is a flat circle. Was it an interesting time 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:14.240 for you when the Roman Empire meme was making the 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:15.960 rounds at nauseum? 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.599 Yeah it was. Yeah, as one of the few women 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.400 in the world that spend significantly more time talking and 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:26.000 thinking about the Roman Empire than her husband, it was 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.120 a fun time. And yeah, it came out was going 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:31.599 around just as my book was coming out, so it 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.000 felt like a marketing campaign specifically for me, which. 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.520 Was great, incredible. 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.480 I could be like, look, it's not just like aqueducts 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.039 and people saying Marcus Aurelius and then. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.720 Which this movie doesn't do that much to challenge. 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:50.080 It doesn't know, this is why everybody thinks Marcus Aurelius 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:51.840 is the only guy that ever existed in the whole 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:52.679 of the Roman Empire. 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.320 I was so curious how you originally fell into this 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.920 line of study. How yeah, how did you end up 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:00.880 as an authority on Roman Empire? 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:05.000 I did my A levels in ancient history at the 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.880 exact time that this film came out, which I only 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.640 did so in the UK, you get to choose subjects 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:12.680 that you're going to do to study, like narrow down 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.640 to four subjects when you're sixteen. They just like choose 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.080 a career path. And I did ancient history because I 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.200 thought it sounded fun, and you got to go on 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.040 trips to Italy and Greece, and I just was immediately 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:30.920 captivated by the Romans and how optly, utterly horrible they are. 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.000 And I kept trying to leave, Like I tried to 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.039 do my undergraduate in something else, I tried to do 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:36.960 my master's degree in something else, and I just kept 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.440 quitting and going back and doing Romans. And then I 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.360 did my PhD and decided I didn't want to be 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.839 an academic. I just wanted to write books with jokes 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.320 in instead. And I've been getting away with that now 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:50.000 for a decade. 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.680 So I love that it rocks. 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.640 And specifically, I mean I will we'll talk about this 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.920 throughout the episode, but specifically, you have been it seems 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.560 like one of the few people who have centered women 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.719 in your histories of room. So when you're like coming 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.479 up in this space, was that a hard self for people? 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.000 Was there a demand for it? 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:11.200 Like? 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.040 How did you sort of land on that specific focus? 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:17.880 I think because I'm a woman, and I'm also a 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.359 working class woman, and so so much of what you 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.400 read about when you're reading about Romans is like five 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.320 of the most upper class guys you've ever heard of, 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.200 like Seneca and Cicero and emperors, who are all like 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.280 the most elite rich men that you can humanly imagine. 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.839 And I just do not empathize with those people at all, 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.839 Like I do not imagine myself as them, but so 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:42.159 many ancient historians and classicists totally do. They're like me, Cicero, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.120 like that's who I would be if I was put 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.440 in the past, And I just don't at all. So 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.320 I wanted to find you know, whenever I was studying it, 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.560 I'd always be like, who would I be in this picture? 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.160 And I would be like some woman standing at the back, 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:00.440 being like this doesn't look like it's going very well. Yeah, 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:04.120 basically any given situation. So I'm you know, I like 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.520 telling those stories and expanding the idea of what the 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.320 Roman Empire is and what Roman history is, because we 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.640 have so much information about the ancient world, Like, we 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.360 have so much and it's all right there, but people 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.920 are not necessarily interested in looking for it themselves. So 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:24.560 I do it for them and then tell them about it, 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.840 because I'm basically just looking for myself in the past. 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.200 A gossip about and make it fun. 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.480 Yeah, I think that they're just inherently funny, so because 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.280 they take themselves very seriously, but they're not a serious people, 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:41.120 and so to me, it's very easy to make jokes 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.680 about them. And more people should. More people should make 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.600 fun of them, I think, And that's what we're going 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:46.800 to do here today. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.880 Yeah, there is notes of you know, just notes of 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.840 a crumbling empire, Like, yeah, I get this, I get 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.040 this vibe. I see myself, I see myself in this 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:58.960 crumbling empire. 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:01.760 Here we are in one. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:06.840 Bringing it into Gladiator. When did you first encounter with 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.000 this movie? What is your history with this movie specifically? 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.560 So this movie came out exactly as I was just 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.280 starting to study the Romans. So nineteen ninety nine is 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.720 when I first started studying. In two thousand and when 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.160 this came out, and so I went with my A 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.440 level group to see it, and we were seventeen years 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:30.040 old and like the worst people that you can imagine, 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.400 because you know, you have people who have like one 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.160 small bit of knowledge and therefore they think they know everything. 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.559 We were those people in the back of the cinema. 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.640 And I saw it and I thought there was very, 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.079 very silly, and I remember being vaguely hysterical at all 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.559 of the Latin because I had done one whole year 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.560 of Latin, so obviously so. 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:50.680 You're fluent, of course. 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.160 Yeah, but in fairness, I still find that very very funny. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:56.040 And then I just thought it was a very very 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:00.280 silly film that was hilarious for astonishing too and half 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.800 hours and then kind of stopped thinking about it, and 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:04.920 since then, for the past like twenty five years, have 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.200 just been sort of making fun of it, like it's 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:12.440 just been it's consistently funny to do Russell Crow oppressions. 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.720 And went back and watched it again for this but 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.400 this is the first time I've actually seen it since 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:22.360 seeing it in the cinema. Wow, So it was amazing 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.439 how much I remembered. But I've just been gently feeling 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.920 bad about how annoying I must have been in two thousand. 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.559 In the cinema, it's okay, yeah. 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.480 Yeah, you're seventeen, that you know, if you're not annoying 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:38.079 when you're seventeen, you are the weird one exactly. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.439 And I think it deserved the laughter. 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:50.800 So it's okay, Wow, we're so polite, you go. I 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:55.360 had not seen this movie. Bravely, I just and not 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:00.280 because I've even disinterested in ancient rom I hopefull this 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.320 isn't a polarizing thing to say it, but like in 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.360 my like public school system, if you were like in 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:10.360 advanced classes, they made you take Latin instead of something 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.600 you could use and so, and I will always resent 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.240 because I, you know, like really wish I spoke even 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.240 vaguely conversational Spanish would be so much more useful in 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.480 my day to day life. But instead I took five 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:28.720 years of Latin, and for what I don't know, I 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.160 retained very little. I remember how to say stupid boy, 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.560 futuos puiri whoa, And that was all I would really 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.360 say in the class because all the boys in the 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:39.160 class were annoying. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.240 Well, if you want to learn and in Spanish. It's 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.640 one way you could say it is please Chico is stupid, 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.280 so she could see and how much more useful would 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:52.240 so much. 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.319 My life would just be easier. Anyways, I really did 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.040 enjoy Latin, and that's why I stayed in the program 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:01.240 for five years. And you know, there like historical elements 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.680 to it. We did these very I have you heard 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.920 of these, like these Latin education books. I don't know 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:09.280 if they were just in the US, but it's called 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:10.120 Eka Romani. 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:11.880 Yes, I know it. 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.560 Yeah, Oh my gosh. There is still kind of like 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:21.480 a semi thriving tumbler culture around Eka Romani because it 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.160 was like a story, like I do think part of 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.360 the reason I didn't leave the Latin program is because 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.760 of the story. Because you're translating like a story about 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.360 a family who moves from Oh gosh, I wish I 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.320 remembered their last name, Aki Romani Hive don't kill me. 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.720 But they basically they're on this long journey to Rome. 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.240 They're like an upper middle class family on their journey 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.520 to Rome. And then for an entire academic year they 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.440 were stuck in a ditch. It was wild. It was 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.800 all of book two, all of eighth grade, they're stuck 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.640 in a ditch. It's so shocking. My cousin was two 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:57.520 years ahead of me, and she's like buckle in for 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.960 eighth grade because nothing happens in Latin in eighth grade. 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:02.920 They don't get to Rome until you're in high school. 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.320 It was like, so the year where they're in the 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:10.120 ditch is just ridiculous. Anyways, we learned about Roman history 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.480 when I was saying Latin, but I just never as 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.280 far as like Gladiator goes. This is just like I 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.240 see this poster and I'm like, this movie is not 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.520 for me. I don't know. Historical epics have never really 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.160 been my thing, you know, hyper mask movies, I've never 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.400 really been my thing, and so when I was watching 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.640 this for the first time, I felt like, yeah, this 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:37.440 is really not my thing. So not much changed. However, However, 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.000 while his you know, character, which I know is like 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:45.080 based in some historical truth, while Joaquin Phoenix's character is 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:51.160 absolutely diabolical, he is so cunty in this movie. He's 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:59.040 like awesome to watch. He's such a diva. I love him. Yeah, 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.800 so yeah, I if for nothing else other than the 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:07.920 Joaquin Phoenix performance, I you know, it was watching Waquin Phoenix. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.040 I just didn't know there was a famous movie where 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:14.200 Joaquin Phoenix killed Dumbledore. So that was interesting. 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.040 H the joke man kills Dumbledore. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:22.480 Joker killed Dumbledore. And if that's not a hot topic sentence, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:23.440 I don't know what is. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it was. I don't know. 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.680 It wasn't for me, but I am very excited to 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:34.400 talk about it because it feels like such straight guy porn. 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:36.960 Mmmmm yeah yeah. 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.000 Yes, Kitlyn, was your history with Gladiator. 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.000 I saw it in high school. I don't think I 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.520 saw in theaters, but when it like came out on DVD, 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.800 my friends and I got together for a little sleepover 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.559 and we watched it. And as far as like appealing 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.599 to my sensibilities, it does for me more than I 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.439 think it does for you, Jamie. But for some reason, 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.920 I never revisited it, and I like kind of remembered 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:06.239 nothing about it. And also I didn't learn like anything 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.760 about ancient Rome in any history class I ever took. 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.920 There was probably like three days where they're like, hey, 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.000 remember Julius Caesar, he did this thing. So I know 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.320 almost nothing to the extent where I thought that Caesar 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.840 was a last name and not like a title. 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.440 It's both what I'm so glad you're here. But they 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.120 all say, like, you're a Caesar, so that's it. That's 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.760 her last name, but it's also their title. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.600 That's his name. Yeah, so his name is Guys Julius Caesar, 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.960 so is his last name. And then it becomes a 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:48.720 title after his air makes it into a title basically wow, okay, 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.160 yeah wow, and then you get to be a Caesar 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.560 and then it like loses all of its name meaning 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.360 and just becomes a title eventually. 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.080 So it's both Okay, thank you for clarifying that. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.120 So glad you're here. You're so glad you're here, because 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:02.680 they use. 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.040 Caesar as if it's a title in this movie. So 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:06.840 I was like, oh, I thought that Caesar was a 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.760 last name, but I guess it's been a title this 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:10.920 whole time. But okay, that makes more sense. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.960 They're also using it very incorrectly in this movie. 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:16.760 Was this movie historically inaccurate? 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.080 The thing that stuck out to me right away and 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:26.080 watch may be dead wrong is Lucilla's clothes. They felt 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.360 very small coded to me. 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.760 Yeah, they wouldn't log that out of place in a 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:38.760 like two thousands, like nice boty women who are married 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:39.800 to accountants. 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.720 Like extraneous ribbons is like a lot of like kind 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:48.080 of unflattering fabric. You're just like, hmm, it's looking polyester. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:50.840 Yeah. That's one of my things is when people use 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:56.840 like really fine, like diaphanous, floaty fabrics in Roman things. 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.880 You're like, how do you think they're making those? Right? 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:05.360 That is machine mate, but they love a diaphanous fabric 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:07.880 kind of like paying things on film. But yeah, it 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.320 looks also really did not look that expensive compared to 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.480 how much they spent on Joaquin's like fancy robes. 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.400 Oh yeah, I've clad you okay, because I was like 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.600 maybe I just don't know for it, but it was 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.240 like this, this is cruel with me to say, but 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.160 it was kind of reminding me of the costume design 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:27.000 and I Frankenstein. It felt very like I. 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.480 Party Yeah, Party City vibes. 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:30.160 Yeah. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.400 So anyway, I had only seen this movie once before, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.239 although I did when I went to Rome in twenty nineteen. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:39.160 I think it was. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.480 Brag am I the only person here that hasn't been 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:42.200 a Rome. 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:50.240 Maybe, wow, shame shame on you, Jamie. Now I did 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.040 a tour like a walking tour around the city of 0:16:54.160 --> 0:17:00.520 Rome that was called Feminist History of Rome. So it 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.360 was a tour that told events of ancient Rome through 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.280 a feminist lens. And I was the only person on 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.320 the tour. It was me and the tour guide, so 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.400 it was like a very I was just the only 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.520 person who signed up for it, so it was a 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.040 very personal It was a date. 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:17.520 It was basically a date. 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:17.960 And. 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:25.960 The tour guide had some pretty like swarfy opinions about things, 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.520 and like was saying things that were like disparaging of 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.119 sex workers, and so I did complain about it. I 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.119 wrote my little review and I was like, get rid 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.399 of all this swarf rhetoric. But otherwise it's a fun tour. 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.600 So I learned a little bit at the time. Did 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:47.600 I retain any of that information? Sure didn't. So couldn't say. 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.359 But I enjoyed watching this movie. It's I think better 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.320 than I remember, not because it's not like, wow, this 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.800 is like so well written and well performed, but it 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.800 is entertaining. I feel like the movie does what you 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.360 as entertained. Russell Crowe's character is encouraged to do, which 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.840 is like get the crowd on your side, and I 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.440 feel like me the crowd was on the side of 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.560 the movie. I had a good time watching it, That's 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.359 what I'm saying. But there's lots to talk about. So 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.280 let's take a quick break and we'll come back for 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:35.840 the recap. And we're back, okay. So here's the recap 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:39.199 of Gladiator. I will place a content warning at the 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:45.360 top here for sexual violence and incest. Okay. So we 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:49.439 open on text on the screen reading that at the 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.880 height of its power, the Roman Empire was vast, stretching 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.720 from Africa to England. A quarter of the world's population 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.119 lived and died under the rules of the Caesars. Which 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.720 is a title and the last name I no. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.920 No, wait, I want to say EMM a fact check. 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:10.520 Is the stuff at the beginning? 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:16.160 True? Yes, it is. This is the fight, which kind 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.240 of makes it funny that they're all very convinced that 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.480 this is also the end. But this is like what's 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.399 called the high Empire. This is like the best of 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:28.200 times for the Roman Empire. It's like size wise, it's 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.040 at its peak, and they're only fighting wars now that 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.240 they are deliberately getting themselves into in order to conquer 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.400 other people. So this is what is called the High Empire, gotcha. 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.879 Although the text frames it very differently, where it's like 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.840 Rome is awesome and they're just trying to kill these 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.679 barbarians so that they can finally have peace throughout the empire, 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:50.840 which is awesome. 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.920 The values of the movie are very bizarre with regards 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:59.359 to that, where it's like they're not avoiding the issue 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.359 of slavery entirely, and the movie has like some empathy, 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.479 but then also they're like but ultimately, at the end 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:08.840 of the day, it's all about the Roman project, and 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.920 you're like, I don't know about that. 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.640 Yeah, So the rest of the text and I rewrote 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.440 it and reframed it to this, which is so it's 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:23.400 the year one eighty a d. Emperor Marcus Aurelius has 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.960 been fighting against the barbarian tribes in Germania for I 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:32.320 think twelve years now, but there's one final stronghold that 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:39.520 the Roman Empire is trying to conquer to uphold its imperialism. 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:45.360 So we cut to Germania. We meet Maximus. That's Russell Crowe. 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.760 He's the general of the Roman army that is readying 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.840 for battle with the Germanic army, overseeing all of this 0:20:54.119 --> 0:21:00.240 is Emperor Marcus Aurelius played by Richard Harris of Dumbledore Fame. 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:05.480 The battle takes place and the Roman army is victorious 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:13.639 thanks to Maximus being so good at war, so good. 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:20.160 We then meet Marcus Aurelius's son and daughter, Commodists played 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:24.800 by Joaquin Phoenix and Lucilla played by Connie Nielsen. They 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.639 are on their way to meet their father after this battle. 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:33.360 And Commodists and Lucilla are based on real people. 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:38.000 They are, Yes, so they are real people. Commodist really 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.399 was the emperor Nisilla really was his sister, one of 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.879 a minimum of twelve siblings that he had. Wow, And 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:47.399 she really did hate him, and she did also really 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.760 try to kill him. Good for her, actually, because he 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.320 made her marry a man that she thought was beneath 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.600 her status and she took it as an insult. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.760 Oh, so she's just lair elitist. 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.359 Yeah, well so your brothers shouldn't decide who you married, 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:05.040 for sure. 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.400 No, but you know, I mean, everyone in these imperial families, 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:10.840 I'm sure was pretty trash. 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:15.119 Yeah. And then I read that real life Commedists had Lucilla. 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.119