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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 2: I've never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, and yes

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Speaker 2: we come to you with another classic.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we've had some technical.

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Speaker 2: Difficulties, We've had some scheduling difficulties, just difficulties, just difficulties. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: we have a holiday weekend and I'm really trying to

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Speaker 2: set some boundaries around how much I'm gonna be working.

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Speaker 2: So this is what we're what we're doing. We're doing

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Speaker 2: a classic, and a part of that is also, as

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Speaker 2: you may know, as we've said, we have a book

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Speaker 2: that is coming out. You can pre order it at

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Speaker 2: stuff you Should read books dot com. It comes out

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Speaker 2: in August. But Samantha and I are doing the audio

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Speaker 2: book reading next week. No, two weeks from now, two

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Speaker 2: weeks from.

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Speaker 3: Now, Yes, I guess a week and a half. But

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Speaker 3: we're always a little bit ahead, so we have to

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Speaker 3: keep up with what's going on, so you know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so we're trying to get ahead of that. And

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Speaker 2: I am very very nervous.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.

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Speaker 3: As you know, I have already looked through my spreadsheets

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Speaker 3: trying to see what I need to read. I'll be

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Speaker 3: going to our manuscript and practicing it on my own

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Speaker 3: because I'm very nervous about pronouncing any of these words

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Speaker 3: that I don't think I've ever used out loud just

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Speaker 3: write it, so that's even even worse. I'm like, oh, no,

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Speaker 3: I am not smart, Like when I can't pronounce the word, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I use this in real life.

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Speaker 2: A very kind listener wrote in once that his mom

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Speaker 2: used to tell him that if you don't know how

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Speaker 2: to pronounce a word, it just means you've never heard

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Speaker 2: it out loud. And I that's true, that's nice, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: we have to get it right. So I'm very nervous.

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Speaker 2: The person we're in contact with is very lovely, but

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Speaker 2: she did say podcasters are always surprised by how difficult

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Speaker 2: it is, and I'm like, that's great, But it makes

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Speaker 2: sense because you have to read the words as they

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Speaker 2: are written, as opposed to you and I just kind

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Speaker 2: of like riffling.

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Speaker 1: Yes. So that's that's coming up.

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Speaker 2: And it's also been a challenge in terms of we

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Speaker 2: have like comic strips in it and activities in it,

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Speaker 2: so we'll see, we'll see what happens. But all that

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Speaker 2: to say, we have a lot of stuff on the

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Speaker 2: horizon and as as this comes out. May is ending,

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Speaker 2: so we wanted to run this classic for aapi month.

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Speaker 2: As we always say, like we focus in on these

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Speaker 2: these months or these tempoles, but we we talked about

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Speaker 2: this stuff all the time, so you know, but we

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Speaker 2: did want to bring back this classic with Eves where

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Speaker 2: we talked about Mabel ping Huali, who was really had

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Speaker 2: a really interesting part of the suffrage movement but also

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Speaker 2: in the educational field.

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Speaker 1: So please enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Annie and Smitha. I'm welcome to Steph.

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Speaker 2: I've never told you protection of iHeartRadio and it's time

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Speaker 2: for another female first, which means we are once again

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Speaker 2: joined by our good friend, the wonderful, the amazing Eves and.

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Speaker 4: Today very like the begin of the hole. My goodness,

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Speaker 4: it's good to our usual.

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Speaker 1: Yes, always good to have you.

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Speaker 2: Anything interesting going on, Eves, anything of note, anything you're

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Speaker 2: looking forward to.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, is it okay?

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Speaker 5: I don't know, to be more comfortable with saying I

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Speaker 5: don't know, and I definitely don't. I don't think things

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Speaker 5: are pretty I feel good, things are at level.

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Speaker 4: I'm learning every.

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Speaker 5: Day something new, so i'd feeling that's always a good thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, nothing, I don't have much to report.

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Speaker 3: I say that is one of the things that I

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Speaker 3: admire about you as where I just sit, you continue

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Speaker 3: to do new things, learn new things, do things to

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Speaker 3: find yourself that I'm like, man, you are really motivated,

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Speaker 3: and I feel like you used your time wisely. Maybe

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Speaker 3: I'm projecting because I'm like, I want to be like Eve's.

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Speaker 4: I can't be like Eve's.

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Speaker 5: It's very sweet of you to think that I have

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Speaker 5: everything together. That is definitely not the case.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's like you at least like exploring, whether it's

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Speaker 3: like you know, relearning meditation or watching movies that I like,

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Speaker 3: we recommend something, You're like, I'll watch it, and you

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Speaker 3: actually follow through.

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Speaker 4: That's amazing to me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you might be selling yourself a little short,

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Speaker 5: because I think one reason that we do this is

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Speaker 5: because our of our never ending curiosity, Like you have

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Speaker 5: to have a level of like staying curious about the

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Speaker 5: world and learning new things to be able to delves

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Speaker 5: deep into research and such precarious and intricate topics.

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Speaker 4: As you do.

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Speaker 3: You know, and again, I'm very impressed by the people

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Speaker 3: that you bring to us, because it is the people,

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Speaker 3: the women that we never heard of and or have

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Speaker 3: been neglected for so long that you can do these

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Speaker 3: deep dives. It has been also impressive, and that you're

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Speaker 3: doing the work for us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Yes, yes too.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about that.

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Speaker 2: I was like, how does Eves always find these amazing

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Speaker 2: stories I've never heard?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, the world is a vast pit of

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Speaker 5: information and overpopulation, notwithstanding, people are born and there are

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Speaker 5: a lot of stories to tell. I mean, that makes

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Speaker 5: me really excited and really puts things into perspective to

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Speaker 5: just know how many small universes have been created that

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Speaker 5: we are able to tap into because we have such

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Speaker 5: a wealth of information at our fingertips.

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Speaker 3: There is a talent to being able to research and

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Speaker 3: research well because I have discovered I'm at the very

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Speaker 3: cusp of like trying to figure it out when we

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Speaker 3: try to find, you know, women around the world that

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Speaker 3: series and finding women and activists who are doing great

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Speaker 3: things that we don't talk about or talk enough about.

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Speaker 3: But it's still hard to actually figure out where to

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Speaker 3: even start half the time. So I'm discovering that it

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Speaker 3: is a lot. It takes a bit of talent and

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Speaker 3: of course a lot of practice. But like all of

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Speaker 3: those things come together to find a good research.

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Speaker 4: So kudos. Yeah, thank you again.

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Speaker 1: I love this.

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Speaker 2: I love our because it's early morning. I feel like

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Speaker 2: we're starting off with a warm virtual hug.

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Speaker 4: I know that.

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Speaker 3: Like it's honestly just the moments to really appreciate, because

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Speaker 3: when you really think that down deep into it and

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Speaker 3: you're like, wow, this is kind of amazing.

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Speaker 4: Damn I'm done.

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Speaker 3: I'm doone with my squishy, gushy stuff.

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Speaker 1: Oh I love it. I love it. We're such Eves

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Speaker 1: fan to be fair.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, we'll take you anything, anything, I'll take it all.

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Speaker 2: Perfect, perfect, Well, speaking of amazing stories and small universes,

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Speaker 2: I love how you put it like that.

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Speaker 1: Who did you bring for us today?

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Speaker 4: Today we are going to be talking about Mabel ping Huai.

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Speaker 5: So she was a Chinese American women's rights activist and

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Speaker 5: she was involved in the suffragist space. And it said

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Speaker 5: that she was the first Chinese woman to get a

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Speaker 5: doctor in economics from Columbia University.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she has an amazing story, an amazing story

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Speaker 2: with so many historical threads and contexts and nuance throughout.

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Speaker 1: So very very excited to get into this one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, me too. So let's start.

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Speaker 5: She was born around eighteen ninety six in Guangzhou, China,

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Speaker 5: and in China she learned English at a missionary school.

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Speaker 5: She lived with her mother and her grandmother. Her mother's

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Speaker 5: name was Li Beck and she was part of the

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Speaker 5: upper class in Guangzhou. Her father Leto, which is spelt

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Speaker 5: some different ways in the records, spelled t or t Owe,

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Speaker 5: but he was a missionary in the US. He has

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Speaker 5: his own story of coming over to the United States

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Speaker 5: and being involved in the Christian Church here, and mabel

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Speaker 5: Lea moved to.

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Speaker 4: The United States in the early nineteen hundreds. There are some.

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Speaker 5: Conflicting days given in a lot of parts of her history,

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Speaker 5: but she was there by nineteen oh five and after

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Speaker 5: her father. That was after her father had already been

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Speaker 5: in the United States for years, so she spent some

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Speaker 5: time in California and Washington State, and they eventually settled

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Speaker 5: in Chinatown in New York City. The Lee family was

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Speaker 5: part of a movement of Chinese people from the West

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Speaker 5: Coast to the East coast as opportunities for work decreased

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Speaker 5: and anti Chinese violence increased in the West.

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Speaker 4: So it's not as if.

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Speaker 5: Like anti Chinese violence wasn't just concentrated in the West.

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Speaker 5: I don't want to make it seem like there were

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Speaker 5: only instances of that in a specific place, because I

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Speaker 5: think we like to compartmentalize regions in the United States

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Speaker 5: as if certain things only happen in certain places, like

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Speaker 5: racism only happened in the South and didn't happen in

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Speaker 5: the North. And I don't want to make it seem

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Speaker 5: like that's what I'm saying here. It's just that that

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Speaker 5: there was some movement from the West to the east.

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Speaker 5: I would also like to take this moment to talk

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Speaker 5: about some of the context around immigration that was happening

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Speaker 5: with Chinese people who migrated from China to the United States,

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Speaker 5: and also some that came after, generations that came after

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Speaker 5: that were born here in the United States from people

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Speaker 5: who were migrants from China.

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Speaker 4: So I think that we might.

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Speaker 5: Have talked about this the Chinese Exclusion Act before in

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Speaker 5: Female First, and I'm sure that y'all have mentioned it before,

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Speaker 5: otherwise we did.

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Speaker 4: I remember we did.

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Speaker 5: The episode on afon Moi the quote unquote first Chinese Lady,

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Speaker 5: So we might have talked about it before, but of

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Speaker 5: course it's worthwhile bringing it up again here because that

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Speaker 5: policy is super relevant because it was active for many years,

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Speaker 5: many decades, which is like so hard to believe how

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Speaker 5: recent this history is, but really puts a lot of

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Speaker 5: things into perspective.

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Speaker 4: But Congress approved.

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Speaker 5: The Chinese Exclusion Act in May of eighteen eighty two,

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Speaker 5: which banned Chinese laborers from migrating to the United States

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Speaker 5: for ten years. So as it goes with law, there

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Speaker 5: are so many more rules that go into that, so

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Speaker 5: many more asterisks. The Act was later extended, even though

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Speaker 5: it was initially supposed to be imposed for ten years,

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Speaker 5: and then it was made permanent until the Act was

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Speaker 5: repealed in nineteen forty three with the Magnuson Act, and

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Speaker 5: even then it wasn't like a full repeal. There was

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Speaker 5: a quota for Chinese immigrants that was set to one

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Speaker 5: hundred and five people, so there were people who were

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Speaker 5: exempt from those rules, like diplomats, teachers, students, and merchants

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Speaker 5: who were allowed to migrate, but they also had to

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Speaker 5: have certifications stating that they were qualified to immigrate, which

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Speaker 5: has its own layer of issues. There are stories about

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Speaker 5: people who were affected by the Chinese Exclusion Act who

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Speaker 5: had to go through these these layers of questioning and

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Speaker 5: having to qualify your personal existence and why you're worthy

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Speaker 5: of being in a space and just imagine how mentally,

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Speaker 5: emotionally how impactful that is in a person. So that's

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Speaker 5: another layer to delve into. But that is something that

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Speaker 5: did come up in Mabel Lee's life and obviously so

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Speaker 5: many other people that were affected by the Chinese Exclusion Act.

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Speaker 5: You'll see it in some of her papers and her

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Speaker 5: having to leave the country and come back into the

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Speaker 5: United States because there were rules around how a person

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Speaker 5: could re enter if they were a Chinese migrant trying

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Speaker 5: to leave the country and then come back. Not as

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Speaker 5: if we're unfamiliar with issues around migration right now in

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Speaker 5: the United States, but this was the case in her

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Speaker 5: story as well. So this law wasn't active for many

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Speaker 5: many reasons.

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Speaker 4: There are many layers to it.

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Speaker 5: It was stoked by things like fear, racism, anti Chinese animosity,

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Speaker 5: economic insecure security. So yes, there are a lot of

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Speaker 5: factors that go into the reason. But this is what

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Speaker 5: was a part of Mabel Lee's life as she was

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Speaker 5: moving to the United States. Immigration from China was extremely

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Speaker 5: limited during the period under the Exclusion Act, and the

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Speaker 5: people who were already here even before the Exclusion Act

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Speaker 5: was implemented, were also facing violence from people who had

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Speaker 5: an anti Chinese sentiment. Yes, so Lee and her family

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Speaker 5: were able to migrate here, but she was one of few.

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Speaker 5: There weren't that many other people there at the time

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Speaker 5: who were able to make that happen. But so when

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Speaker 5: she settled in New York, she went to Erasmus Hall

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Speaker 5: High School, which was a public school in Brooklyn. And

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Speaker 5: of course people in the United States had their eyes

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Speaker 5: on international efforts for suffrage, so that included China, where

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Speaker 5: there was a revolution in nineteen eleven, and people in

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Speaker 5: China have been organizing for decades for women's suffrage. So

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Speaker 5: I think it's really easy to get into a bubble

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Speaker 5: and think about what's happening here in the United States.

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Speaker 5: And we've talked about women's suffrage in the United States before,

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Speaker 5: but there were also efforts in China, and leading up

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Speaker 5: to the revolution, women's suffrage activists opposed the Ching monarchy,

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Speaker 5: which was overthrown in nineteen eleven, and they supported the

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Speaker 5: equality of genders. And we're talking about things like advocating

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Speaker 5: for more political participation for women, and they didn't quite

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Speaker 5: get this in the newly formed Republic of China immediately,

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Speaker 5: but women's suffrages in China did remain vigilant in their activism.

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Speaker 5: So because so many white Americans' views of Chinese folks

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Speaker 5: were anchored in this racism and xenophobia and ignorance, the

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Speaker 5: four movement of enfranchisement wasn't a good look for the

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Speaker 5: supposedly moral upstanding. These are not my words, but like

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Speaker 5: how the view of from white Americans perspective was of

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Speaker 5: the other. Specifically for Chinese people in this situation, it's

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Speaker 5: like we are more civilized, we have all our stuff

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Speaker 5: going on, we have more of this forward movement, We're

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Speaker 5: more progressive. And they were seen as more lowly by

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Speaker 5: a they. When I say they, I mean like Chinese people.

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Speaker 5: For people in China, of course were exoticized, were viewed

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Speaker 5: as the other. We're seen as more lowly and all

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Speaker 5: the other various stereotypes and things that were and views

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Speaker 5: that were bred out of racism that it came from

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Speaker 5: white American perspective. So the fact that there was movement

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Speaker 5: when it came to suffrage and enfranchisement for people in

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Speaker 5: China who were supposed to be this les quote unquote

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Speaker 5: lesser version of people was something that didn't look so

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Speaker 5: great to a lot of white Americans who were invested

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Speaker 5: in suffrage. So white suffragists looked to Chinese suffragists in

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Speaker 5: the US to learn more about efforts in China and

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Speaker 5: also efforts about education in China, because that was also

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Speaker 5: something that women were trying to have for movement on

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Speaker 5: in the United States. In April of nineteen twelve, Mabel

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Speaker 5: and her parents, along with other Chinese people in the community,

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Speaker 5: met with white activists who wanted more insight on the situation.

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Speaker 4: But it's interesting because if.

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Speaker 5: You read there was a lot of reporting about Mabel

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Speaker 5: and things that were happening in the suffrage space in

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Speaker 5: New York when Mabel was active, and in this situation

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Speaker 5: of the meeting with parents is positioned in a way

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Speaker 5: where it seems like the white women who were involved,

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Speaker 5: even though the woman who kind of brought this meeting

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Speaker 5: together says that I'm not really the same for just

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Speaker 5: kind but I figured it could be good to talk

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Speaker 5: to Chinese people about these issues that are affecting them

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Speaker 5: while they're here in the US, issues around education and

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Speaker 5: around women's rights and suffrage. Yeah, so At this meeting,

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Speaker 5: Mabel Lee spoke of her support for gender equality and

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Speaker 5: education for girls and suffrage, and she was still young,

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Speaker 5: so she started all of.

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Speaker 4: This when she was a teenager.

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Speaker 5: She became known as a person who had good oratory

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Speaker 5: skills and who was invested in bringing women's rights to

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Speaker 5: the forefront as a teenager.

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Speaker 4: So this is while she was in high school.

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Speaker 5: She was featured in a couple of New York Tribune

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Speaker 5: articles in April of nineteen twelve. Around that same time,

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Speaker 5: one was called Chinese Girl once Vote, so she was

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Speaker 5: positioned as a quote symbol of.

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Speaker 4: The new era. When all their women.

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Speaker 5: Will be free and unhampered, was a quote from that

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Speaker 5: New York Tribune article. And by their women, they are

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Speaker 5: referring to Chinese women. And then there was another article

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Speaker 5: that month in the New York Tribune called Chinatown Awakens,

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Speaker 5: in which she was called the quote progressive Mabel Lee.

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Speaker 5: She was also some sentences later called a hopeless little suffragette,

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Speaker 5: suffragette in itself already being a derogatory terminology for someone

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Speaker 5: who was invested in suffrage. So there was I think

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Speaker 5: we definitely talked about this a lot before, because y'all know,

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Speaker 5: I love bringing quotes, but how steeped in the languages

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Speaker 5: in the racism of the day, the views toward Chinese people,

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Speaker 5: And yeah, so you can delve into that and reading

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Speaker 5: that entire article, it's just funny to me because there

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Speaker 5: is a huge contrast between the uplift of who Mabel

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Speaker 5: Lee was, acknowledging that she was progressive, acknowledging that she

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Speaker 5: was helping the white people in this instance learn more

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Speaker 5: about her culture, learn more about the knowledge that she had,

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Speaker 5: so they were coming to her for assistance, but at

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Speaker 5: the same time using language that showed how they viewed

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Speaker 5: Mabel and other Chinese people as inferior.

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Speaker 4: So it's a huge cognitive dissonance happening.

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Speaker 5: And then also there was all of the other things

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Speaker 5: that are just outdated language that we would no longer

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Speaker 5: use at all because we know that it's just steeped

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Speaker 5: in stereotyping and things like that. So yeah, it's just

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Speaker 5: interesting to see the contrast and the dissonance happening there.

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Speaker 5: But either way, there were a bunch of articles that

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Speaker 5: came out on her, and it wasn't just in New York.

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Speaker 5: There were articles around the nation who picked up stories

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Speaker 5: on what was happening, and soon after the meaning that

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Speaker 5: I spoke about earlier in May of nineteen twelve, on

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Speaker 5: May fourth, she was involved in a suffrage parade, and

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Speaker 5: there were also articles about this leading up to the

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Speaker 5: time and some of the fanfare and excitement that was

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Speaker 5: happening and looking forward to this parade, newspapers around the

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Speaker 5: country printed headlines that were highlighting Lee's involvement in the parade.

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Speaker 5: There was a bunch of hoopla over how she was

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Speaker 5: riding it on horseback and she was leading the initial

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Speaker 5: cavalcade that was bringing in this ten thousand.

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Speaker 4: People for the parade.

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Speaker 5: The newspapers were specifically calling out the fact that she

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Speaker 5: was Chinese as if it were some sort of party trick.

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Speaker 5: She rode on horseback, and there's a picture of her

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Speaker 5: on horseback as well that you can go and look at.

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Speaker 5: But her speaking skills were praised, and her activism at

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Speaker 5: the time connected her to other activists who were in

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Speaker 5: the space, but she was still going through her own

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Speaker 5: educational process. She was the only Chinese student in her

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Speaker 5: class when she graduated from high school, and she began

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Speaker 5: attending Barnard College, which is a women's college in New

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Speaker 5: York City.

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Speaker 4: You can see a lot of her.

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Speaker 5: Consciousness developing at this time, although she already had it.

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Speaker 5: As an aside, You'll see a lot of the articles

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Speaker 5: talk about how her mother's feet were bound and try

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Speaker 5: to kind of position her mother as.

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Speaker 4: A symbol of the old while her daughter.

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Speaker 5: Maybe Lee is a symbol of the news, saying, well,

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Speaker 5: her mom came from this, but she's still a poorts

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Speaker 5: suffrage look at that. While while mable, Lee is an

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Speaker 5: example of this new age of people coming up in

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Speaker 5: a contrast to the tradition of what her mom supposedly represented.

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Speaker 5: But either way, she was involved in a lot of

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Speaker 5: clubs and activism during her time in college as well.

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Speaker 5: She was in the YWCA, the Young Women's Christian Association,

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Speaker 5: and she sometimes spoke about Chinese culture and history for

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Speaker 5: the organization, and during her time at Barnard she wrote

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Speaker 5: a speech called China's Submerged Half, which I just love

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Speaker 5: that name for like some reason.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: It's just something about the word submerged that I find

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00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 5: really like it just draws me into like I wonder

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00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 5: what this is going to be about. I feel like

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00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 5: that's really that's a really interesting way to title something anyway.

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Speaker 5: That's my weirdness about word ouside.

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Speaker 4: I have a quote from it.

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Speaker 5: She said, China's submerged half has begun to emerge. And

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Speaker 5: when you recall that a battalion of Chinese young women

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Speaker 5: was organized and drilled for service in the late Revolution,

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Speaker 5: and that a militant woman's suffragist used violence toward a

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Speaker 5: deputy of the Nan King Assembly for refusing the vote

388
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Speaker 5: for woman's suffrage, you will agree with me that a

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Speaker 5: part of that half has emerged with a vengeance.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 5: So I think the reason going back to words, I

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00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 5: love submerged half because when she says submerged half, she's

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Speaker 5: referring to women, and I think a lot of the

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00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 5: time it's a difficulty for me to position things from

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Speaker 5: a way in which self identifying as the inferior, because

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00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 5: I think that's what the word submerged can do. It

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00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 5: implies that that we're starting from a negative space. It's

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Speaker 5: like you're immediately positioning yourself with negativity in the situation.

399
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 4: But I think she flips.

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Speaker 5: That on its head where it's like, Okay, we're submerged,

401
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 5: but we're working with so much, you know, there's vengeance

402
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 5: that's happening. It's not coming from She's not coming from

403
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 5: a meek position, a position in which she feels like

404
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 5: she's incapable. So she celebrated progress in terms of things

405
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 5: that Chinese women were doing, like establishing newspapers in that speech,

406
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 5: but she noted that a lot of things were being

407
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 5: said in theory and not done, and that rendering justice

408
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 5: was urgent and that she and other girls.

409
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 4: Would have the duties of pioneers.

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Speaker 5: So she considered herself a feminist, and she became part

411
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 5: of feminist discussions that were happening on campus through groups

412
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Speaker 5: like the Feminist Forum, and she joined the Debate Club.

413
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 5: She was also part of the Chinese Students Club at Columbia,

414
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 5: which was associated with the Chinese Students' Alliance, in which

415
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 5: over the years she held many positions in during her

416
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 5: time in college, So one wonders when she had the

417
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 5: time to do anything, because she definitely seems like she

418
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 5: was involved in a lot. But while she was at Bernard,

419
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 5: she wrote for the Chinese Students Monthly, which was the

420
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Speaker 5: national magazine for the Alliance, and the first article she

421
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 5: published for it was in June of nineteen fourteen, which

422
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 5: was the meaning of woman's a bridge. In August of

423
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 5: nineteen fourteen, she went to the CSA's Eastern Conference and

424
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 5: competed in an oratorical contest. So she made a lot

425
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 5: of friends during her time who were also activist and

426
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 5: was heavily involved in the student community. She got a

427
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 5: bachelor's degree from Barnard in nineteen sixteen and where she

428
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 5: majored in history and philosophy, and she continued on her

429
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 5: educational track when she was accepted into the PhD program

430
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Speaker 5: in the Department of Political Science and Philosophy at Columbia University.

431
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 4: She got a scholarship to go there.

432
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 5: And that was around the time that the graduate school

433
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 5: there began to admit some i'lbeit a small number of women,

434
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 5: into their doctoral programs. During her time at Columbia, she

435
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 5: remained active in the Chinese Student's Alliance and she worked

436
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 5: with doctor Vlada mir Simkovic, who had become her mentor

437
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 5: and her dissertation advisor, and he encouraged her to study

438
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 5: historical Chinese agricultural policy. Her dissertation was entitled The Economic

439
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 5: History of China with Special Reference to Agriculture, which is

440
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 5: available to read online if you're interested in such a

441
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 5: sort of thing.

442
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

443
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 5: So she advocated for a balance between the old and

444
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 5: the new, the traditional and the modern, which makes a

445
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 5: lot of sense for her, and to not just cast

446
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 5: aside what was done in the past as useless. In

447
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 5: nineteen seventeen, Mabel also participated in another suffrage parade as

448
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 5: part of the Women's Political Equality League, and it was

449
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 5: that same year that New York State did enfranchise women,

450
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 5: but Mabel, as a Chinese immigrants, still could not vote.

451
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 5: In nineteen twenty one, that was the year she got

452
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 5: her first so she became the first Chinese woman to

453
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 5: get a PhD from Columbia University. So a path after

454
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 5: around this time for moving forward in career was often

455
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 5: to go back to teach, but finding employment was difficult

456
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 5: for Mabel during her life. She did plan to return

457
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 5: to China to live to bring back what she learned,

458
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 5: as she didn't have a path to citizenship. It was

459
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 5: a path for a lot of women to choose to

460
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 5: go back to China to work, but Mabel herself never

461
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 5: went back permanently to China, even though she did have

462
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 5: some visits in her later years. Her plans as plans

463
00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 5: tend to do didn't go completely as she expect. She

464
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 5: continued working at Columbia and then she did go to

465
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 5: study in Europe, but she had to make arrangements when

466
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 5: she went out of the country. As we spoke about earlier,

467
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 5: what immigrants had to do when it came to re

468
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 5: entry into the US had to qualify their reasoning for

469
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 5: coming back to the United States and that they were

470
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 5: able to do so, and there are papers documenting her

471
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 5: process of that. She planned on setting up a business

472
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 5: importing Chinese herbal medicine, but her father died in November

473
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 5: of nineteen twenty four and she decided to go and

474
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 5: continue his work. She decided to start working for the church,

475
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 5: and she became director of her father's mission in New

476
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 5: York City and started the process of making it her own.

477
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 5: The church building was rented, so she raised funds and

478
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 5: had a new church built at twenty one Pell Street,

479
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 5: and a friend of hers, after she was involved in

480
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 5: that for many many years, suggested that she go back

481
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 5: to her intellectual interest, but she remained invested in a church.

482
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 5: She went back to China a few times in the

483
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 5: nineteen twenties and.

484
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 4: The thirties, but like I said earlier.

485
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 5: She never did move back there permanently, but some Chinese

486
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 5: women were enfranchised and able to vote in nineteen forty

487
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 5: three when the Magnuson Act passed, but that still didn't

488
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 5: extend to all Chinese women. The Immigration and Nationality Act

489
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 5: of nineteen fifty two and the Voting Rights Act of

490
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty five did further that process along and move

491
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 5: the needle on voting rights for Chinese Americans, though that

492
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,479
Speaker 5: didn't solve everything because US citizens who were of Asian

493
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 5: descent still faced discrimination in voting today. But there were

494
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 5: no records of Lee herself naturalizing, and it's also not

495
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 5: known whether she ever voted in the United States, and

496
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 5: she died in nineteen sixty six in New York City.

497
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, this story is so amazing, and I love learning

498
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: about feminism in other countries and just the history of

499
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: feminism and other places because kind of like what you

500
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: were saying earlier, Samantha, with our problem of finding doing

501
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: the research around women around the world is a lot

502
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: of our searches are very like American, not even English,

503
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: but like very American centered. So's I really liked learning

504
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: about this in the context she brought about what was

505
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: going on in China when it came to suffrage and feminism,

506
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: and yeah, this was just she really really did so

507
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: much and she has so much writing, and as someone

508
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 2: who writes, I really enjoyed reading some of the stuff

509
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: that she did and I was like impressed, and yeah,

510
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: I'm I too, am.

511
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 4: A word nerd.

512
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: So I liked a lot of the words that she used,

513
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 2: and I thought she used them so effectively, right.

514
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 3: I think the line that you read from her, it

515
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 3: really made me think of like superheroes where they you know,

516
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 3: punched their way through out of a situation, whether they're

517
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: like under debris and have to fly out of that

518
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: situation essentially, Like that kind of came into mind, because Yeah,

519
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: that definitely painted a picture with her words, and it

520
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 3: was beautifully said and also very inspiring. It's kind of like, yeah, absolutely,

521
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 3: we can definitely emerge with vengeance.

522
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 4: That's amazing. Yeah, it's the word vengeance. The association was

523
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: happening there.

524
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: I just watched that last night.

525
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's all about vengeance right now. But yeah, and

526
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: even the history of the Chinese Exclusionary Act and what

527
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: it held and the discussion as of late about Asian

528
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 3: hate in general, there's a lot of contexts that really

529
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: just kind of bring it background of what she possibly

530
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: went through and trying to understand what it was, because

531
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 3: a part of the comments and conversations within those acts

532
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 3: actually has to do with a lot of sexism and

533
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 3: feticism of Asian women in general, and this whole idea

534
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 3: and the beginning of the exoticism of Asian women. So

535
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 3: you have to wonder as she was coming here, especially

536
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 3: with a missionary from China. There's so many flips to

537
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: that that I have in my head because as a

538
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: person who used to be in the religious Christian Western

539
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 3: Christian world, we had all of those stories about missionaries

540
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 3: going to China and what that looked like, and of

541
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 3: course coming back around to be like, oh that's oooh,

542
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: there's some problematic things with that. But then having that

543
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: flip is a different conversation. I really wonder what her

544
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: background looked like. But then pushing forward with her being

545
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 3: an advocate and a suffer just when it really wasn't

546
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: necessarily just for her, it was the beginning building blocks

547
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: to actually build up.

548
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: To what she had hope for a better world.

549
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 3: When it comes to voting rights, when it comes to

550
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 3: women's rights. But you know, it's really interesting and I

551
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: have so many questions that obviously I don't have to

552
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 3: research about her life.

553
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and there is still a history of her that

554
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 5: exists in public for us to be able to experience

555
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 5: her Chinese exclusion at case file is in the National

556
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 5: Archives in New York City, and the post office in

557
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 5: Chinatown was dedicated to her in twenty eighteen. It's called

558
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 5: the Mabel Lee Memorial Post Office. Now her work has

559
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 5: been acknowledged in the city and that's always a good thing.

560
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: Yes, that's good to hear.

561
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: And like I said, I'm always so happy that you

562
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: bring stories because I hadn't heard of her, and I

563
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: love that there's information. If you want to know more,

564
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: there is stuff that you can find online.

565
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: So that's always nice.

566
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: Right, And I will say as an Asian woman, I'm

567
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: not Chinese. I am absolutely Korean, but you know, in

568
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: my mind, I'm like, my family name is Lee, so

569
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 3: there may be a connection, not really, but we know,

570
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 3: but it is something to see, Like, it is nice

571
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 3: to see representation like that at a time that I

572
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't know obviously, it makes me said

573
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 3: that I didn't know her history, and I really wish

574
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: I had been able to see that as someone that

575
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 3: could have been influential, be like, Wow, here's someone who

576
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 3: at least looked like me a little bit, even though

577
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 3: we're not the same ethnicity. That is an inspiration to

578
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 3: what has happened and was a part of history and

579
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 3: making history happen and continuing to fight in that and

580
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 3: being a representative.

581
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: It's nice to see.

582
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 3: And I'm so excited that you were able to bring

583
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 3: that to us, because I honestly had no idea about her,

584
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: and I feel really shamed. It's a shame that I

585
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 3: didn't know anything about her.

586
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: Don't feel ashamed, it's I mean, it's.

587
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 5: Not a bad thing to not know about everybody in

588
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 5: the world, and it's a good thing that we are

589
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 5: able to access the same information now. So yeah, I

590
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 5: hope that other people as well learn something from our

591
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 5: story and able to dig a little bit deeper into

592
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 5: it and learn more in general about the history of

593
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 5: Chinese Americans in the United States and about who was

594
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 5: involved in the breath and expansiveness of who was involved

595
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 5: in enfranchisement and the work that people did for gaining

596
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 5: more rights and self advocacy in the United States.

597
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 2: Yes, so well, said as always youth. Is there anything

598
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 2: else to add before we wrap up here?

599
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 4: No, that's all I got today.

600
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: Well, thanks as always for joining us and bringing us

601
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: these amazing stories.

602
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you?

603
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 5: Y'all can find me online on Instagram at not Apologizing.

604
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 5: You can also find me on Twitter at Eves jeffco.

605
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 5: And you can find more of my work at evesjeffcot

606
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 5: dot com. Oh yes, and here on sminty. Many more episodes, dozens, right,

607
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 5: dozens of episodes.

608
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: Oh, I think we're approaching fifty. That's what I'm saying

609
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: because I want another celebration.

610
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, so many more episodes of female First where you

611
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 5: can learn about other people in history who did things

612
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 5: that were super important and super meaningful in various histories

613
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 5: around the world. Yes, yes, we always love these episodes,

614
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 5: so please check them out if you've somehow missed them listeners,

615
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 5: and if you would like to contact us, you can

616
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 5: our email is Stuffidia mom Stuff at Iheartdia dot com.

617
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 5: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast

618
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 5: or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks

619
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 5: as always to our super producer Christina.

620
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff I've

621
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: ever told you.

622
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: Production by heart Radio for more podcasts in My heart Radio,

623
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 2: Is it be a heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or

624
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: red you listen to your favorite shows