Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't stories of things we simply don't
Speaker 1: know the answer too. Hello everybody, and welcome again to
Speaker 1: another episode of Thinking Sideways, this podcast where I talk
Speaker 1: in a weird monotone voice. Not really, Hey everybody, This
Speaker 1: is Steve and as always I am joined by Devin
Speaker 1: and Joe and once again we have another mystery to
Speaker 1: bring to you. Yeah. Really, it's not all cats on
Speaker 1: the internet. We know there's there's something else on the internet.
Speaker 1: I'm only talking about the cats. Okay, Well, this week
Speaker 1: we're we're going to talk about a man who is
Speaker 1: revered as the father of the theory of natural selection,
Speaker 1: which be Charles Darwin. And I know that you're asking yourself, well,
Speaker 1: what's the mystery about Darwin? Well, it's it's a simple
Speaker 1: and a complex one. Yeah, who is the detective on
Speaker 1: murder of the Orient Express? Maybe it was, well, obviously
Speaker 1: somebody will tell us, doesn't matter. Yeah. Anyways, he always
Speaker 1: talked about the simple answer and the complex answer. Right, true,
Speaker 1: So we're channeling him today, yes, were we right? No?
Speaker 1: Not really? As I said, the mystery is Darwin's health,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately there's no treap of cover angle here for
Speaker 1: most of Darwin's life. He was plagued with health problems
Speaker 1: which medical science both then and now really can't figure out.
Speaker 1: And in fairness, with the kind of testing we could
Speaker 1: do now, maybe we could. But that's absolutely true with
Speaker 1: the technology at the time to go allow that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and but it's it's amazing. Until we tackled this, this mystery,
Speaker 1: I was not aware that so many people have been
Speaker 1: researching and hypothesizing about Darwin's condition. Darwin Darwin is a
Speaker 1: very popular topic for a myriad of reasons, so it
Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me, and I'm actually quite happy that there's
Speaker 1: so much research out there. But let's let's get back
Speaker 1: to Darwin here. I've got to briefly talk about Darwin. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we can't just dive into things. We've got to talk
Speaker 1: about him a little bit before we do that. Though,
Speaker 1: I do want to thank Alyssa, who suggested this story
Speaker 1: to us on Facebook quite a while back. And I
Speaker 1: also want to send out a huge thank you to
Speaker 1: all of our experts who helped with this story. It
Speaker 1: wouldn't be nearly what it is without those folks. I
Speaker 1: don't think it would be an episode without those Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: I probably would have given up on this like a
Speaker 1: week and a half ago, would have been making a
Speaker 1: fool of ourselves or fools of ourselves. Say yeah, the
Speaker 1: only thing I'm gonna probably get wrong at this point
Speaker 1: is pronunciations. So let's talk about Darwin. Most people know
Speaker 1: Charles Darwin usually from one of two things. It's either
Speaker 1: On the Origin of Species, which is his book that
Speaker 1: he wrote about his theory of natural selection, or it's
Speaker 1: the Galapagos Islands, which he visited when he was on
Speaker 1: the HMS Beagle, or or both of those things. Well,
Speaker 1: it's typically people know one or two primarily, but it
Speaker 1: can be both. Here absolutely right, there's so much more
Speaker 1: to him, and there's so much more than just the
Speaker 1: galop Ghost and so many things that that formed his theories.
Speaker 1: He's really really interesting. I've been reading his Beagle diaries,
Speaker 1: I've been reading his correspondence. Um, I've done a bunch
Speaker 1: of research on Darwin and he's incredibly, incredibly an interest
Speaker 1: interesting character and for anybody who's interested, I recommend going
Speaker 1: and reading his stuff. You won't be sorry for it.
Speaker 1: And I'll probably make that that statement again, but it
Speaker 1: is just I was really happy to get to do it.
Speaker 1: The only downside was the one thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: return out to be a fourteen volume set that I
Speaker 1: couldn't check out the whole library. Weird. I didn't have
Speaker 1: the time to sit there and read it all. What
Speaker 1: was what was the fourteen volume set? It was fourteen
Speaker 1: volumes of Darwin's writings, letters and all that letters and
Speaker 1: stuff like that and stuff about him. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: looked amazingly interesting, but unfortunately I couldn't sit in the
Speaker 1: basement library for three days and read it. People do
Speaker 1: that all the time. I don't know what your problem is.
Speaker 1: I got that whole work thing whatever. This podcast is
Speaker 1: more important than that. You're right, You're right. I do
Speaker 1: have one funny little personal observation from reading a bunch
Speaker 1: of dar and stuff is he was a bit of
Speaker 1: a complainer. I was reading his diary from the Beagle
Speaker 1: and then some of his letters, and it was funny,
Speaker 1: you know, he complained about a lot of things. And
Speaker 1: maybe that's just because he was stuck on a ship
Speaker 1: for five years straight and had nothing else to do.
Speaker 1: But it was just it struck me as something that
Speaker 1: I would have never suspected. It was very sick on
Speaker 1: a ship we're gonna talk about that in a minute,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, and to be fair, I've been complaining
Speaker 1: about the weather all day, So all right, let's get
Speaker 1: into a little of the biography of Darwin here. Charles
Speaker 1: Robert Darwin was born on the twelfth of February eighteen
Speaker 1: o nine in Shrewsbury, England. He's the fifth of six
Speaker 1: children of Dr Robert Darwin and Susannah Darwin last night, Yes,
Speaker 1: because they were married Joe. Though he would eventually come
Speaker 1: up with his own theories in the world and religion.
Speaker 1: Darwin was raised Unitarian. When he was only eight years old,
Speaker 1: his mother died and she had been exhibiting signs of
Speaker 1: intestinal issues. Some people think that maybe it was stomach cancer,
Speaker 1: and also we don't know. Not surprisingly that the death
Speaker 1: of his mother is seen as a major event in
Speaker 1: his life though. Yeah, But but to what degree that
Speaker 1: influenced him is debated. I've seen a lot of debate
Speaker 1: about what that did to him later in life. His father,
Speaker 1: Dr Robert Darwin was a doctor and a medical doctor,
Speaker 1: and he decided that his son should follow in his
Speaker 1: footsteps and become a doctor, and he he sent him
Speaker 1: to university's senting to the University of Edinburgh Medical School,
Speaker 1: in though it became apparent pretty quick that Darwin couldn't
Speaker 1: cut it as a doctor. Didn't even really see joke
Speaker 1: in there. The problem was is that he well, he
Speaker 1: considered the lectures boring and the sight of blood made
Speaker 1: him sick. Yeah, that's that's really weird. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not putting people down if blood blood makes you. Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: not at all. But I mean looking at looking at
Speaker 1: blood actually doesn't bother me in the least. What bothers
Speaker 1: me and why I'm not a doctor or search everything's
Speaker 1: looking at things like intestines because things that are under
Speaker 1: the skin. Yeah, that's that stuff grosses me out. Blood's fine,
Speaker 1: None of that grosses me out at all. So well
Speaker 1: you're lucky, then, yeah, we lucky. Maybe we'll need let's
Speaker 1: say about Darwin, obviously, he sort of slacked off with
Speaker 1: his studies. Luckily for us, he took an interest in
Speaker 1: what at the time was called the natural histories, and
Speaker 1: while he was at university he was in a student
Speaker 1: group that did that studying in the field, and he
Speaker 1: really really quite enjoyed it. His father, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: wasn't too amused. He decided Dr Robert Darter when that
Speaker 1: is that if his if his son couldn't be a doctor,
Speaker 1: then he should be a parson, which is a priest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't have priests in the Unitarianism, do they. I
Speaker 1: don't believe that's I believe that's why it's a parson.
Speaker 1: It's and And the thing about his father is, I've
Speaker 1: read conflicting accounts that either because he seemed to have
Speaker 1: a lot of control over Charles Darwin's life, at least
Speaker 1: as a young man, was that he was either a
Speaker 1: very stern but caring parent, or he was a bit
Speaker 1: of a tyrant. I don't know which. But he decided
Speaker 1: that since Darwin could not be a doctor, that he
Speaker 1: would send him to a different school, and he sent
Speaker 1: him to Cambridge. While he was there, they didn't really
Speaker 1: enjoy the studies to be a priest either or a parson,
Speaker 1: so he continued to start study natural histories and it
Speaker 1: was while he was there that he published several papers
Speaker 1: on the natural histories and met quite a few people
Speaker 1: who saw the world in the ways that he was
Speaker 1: developing to see it. Those papers that Darwin wrote kind
Speaker 1: of helped pave the way for him to be selected
Speaker 1: as the naturalist aboard the h M. S. Beagle, which
Speaker 1: we touched on briefly before. The Beagle was captained by
Speaker 1: a man named Robert fitz Roy, and fitz Roy was
Speaker 1: planning to take the Beagle out for a second voyage.
Speaker 1: The first voyage of the Beagle, which lasted from eighteen
Speaker 1: to eighteen thirty, had surveyed Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego.
Speaker 1: Fitz Roy wasn't initially the captain of the Beagle, but
Speaker 1: through a series of events he became the captain and
Speaker 1: he managed to secure funding for a second voyage to
Speaker 1: do more surveys of the world. And one of the
Speaker 1: of things that he wanted is he he knew he
Speaker 1: needed a geologist and he kind of wanted a naturalist,
Speaker 1: but he also it seemed like kind of wanted somebody
Speaker 1: else to talk to, because it turns out being the
Speaker 1: captain of the ship can be a bit lonely, which
Speaker 1: you know, that worked out for him because fitz Roy
Speaker 1: reached out to a number of people that he knew
Speaker 1: trying to find someone, and the second person that was
Speaker 1: suggested to him was a young Charles Darwin. He did
Speaker 1: select Darwin, and Darwin got to go on what ended
Speaker 1: up being a five year voyage. I want people to understand, however,
Speaker 1: that it wasn't as if he just got to take
Speaker 1: this trip for free. He had to pay for his
Speaker 1: own way, So he was constantly writing to his family
Speaker 1: for his father, primarily for money, and he also needed
Speaker 1: to to pay for his room and board and food.
Speaker 1: Couldn't he just like wash dishes or something like that.
Speaker 1: I don't think that would have cut it. The other
Speaker 1: thing is it wasn't as if he got some giant
Speaker 1: palatial stateroom on the ship. He was in the map
Speaker 1: room or the chart room. Excuse me. That would be
Speaker 1: a room that was nine ft by eleven ft wide,
Speaker 1: about five ft high, and it had both the Mizzen
Speaker 1: mask running through it and a chart table in the
Speaker 1: middle which was four ft by six ft. It sounds
Speaker 1: like my accommodations when I worked on a ship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: actually sounds like a couple of apartments I've had. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nine by eleven actually, by by ship standards, especially old
Speaker 1: old time ships like that, It's actually pretty spacious, except
Speaker 1: for the fact there was that giant table in the middle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that sort of ate up a bunch of room,
Speaker 1: or also maybe the fact that other people probably needed
Speaker 1: access to said chart. That's the problem. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: exactly a private room, and they roll you off. The
Speaker 1: one thing that I saw that was probably the giant
Speaker 1: luxury is there was a bathroom in there and had
Speaker 1: its own bathroom. That's for him. Yes, So that we're
Speaker 1: probably worked out for well. For Darwin, knowing how well
Speaker 1: he traveled by sea, you kind of needed a toilet nearby.
Speaker 1: So the Beagle did go set off on its second voyage,
Speaker 1: and that voyage, which again I said, had lasted for
Speaker 1: five years, traveled southwest from England. It traveled to South America,
Speaker 1: then down around the southern tip of South America, eventually
Speaker 1: making its way to the Galapagos and Australia. South America
Speaker 1: or South Africa. I'm just gonna put another South America there,
Speaker 1: which there is, because it went from South Africa to
Speaker 1: South America both before then returning home to England. So
Speaker 1: I quite a long voyage, that is, I didn't I'm
Speaker 1: kind of surprised that they were. They were at South
Speaker 1: Africa where they didn't didn't just sail up north in
Speaker 1: the Atlantic. Maybe they didn't want to do the Horn.
Speaker 1: Maybe that seemed even more dangerous. No, they had to
Speaker 1: go around the Horn. They did Africa, Yeah, because they
Speaker 1: went underneath, went up, and then across to South America again.
Speaker 1: So they literally did a full navigation of the globe
Speaker 1: before heading north again. And there's there's a number of reasons.
Speaker 1: There was a bunch of stuff they were looking at
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out. But that's the route that
Speaker 1: they took. Whatever um as. As much as I'd like
Speaker 1: to go into details on that trip, I can't. We
Speaker 1: just don't have the time. That would be a show
Speaker 1: that would be hours and hours and hours long, and
Speaker 1: it would be well worth it. But that's not our
Speaker 1: focus today, and we don't consider it an unsolved mystery.
Speaker 1: I do want I do want people to understand, though
Speaker 1: I I didn't really know this as a kid when
Speaker 1: I was growing up and learning about Darwin. Is It's
Speaker 1: not as if he went on this voyage and then
Speaker 1: immediately turned around and penned his theories of natural selection. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he saw one what finch right well, and then he
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I get it now, that's not how
Speaker 1: that happened. No, that's not that happened. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: actually sitting under an Apple film. That's no. No, he
Speaker 1: it took Darwin. He didn't publish On the Origin of
Speaker 1: Species till twenty years after. It took him eight years
Speaker 1: to write the book, but he didn't publish it till
Speaker 1: twenty years later. So it's not as if it was
Speaker 1: an immediate turnaround like we were saying. Yeah, although there
Speaker 1: are probably a lot of political reasons that he wouldn't
Speaker 1: have released it even after eight years. There there is
Speaker 1: a lot of political or religious reasons, and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of good stuff out there about that that goes
Speaker 1: into you know, his conflict with religion and his wife
Speaker 1: was very religious and his struggles with that. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of great content about that. On the Origin of
Speaker 1: Species was not the only thing that Darwin wrote. He
Speaker 1: he wrote goads of papers and books. I mean, the
Speaker 1: guy really was prolific, and he made a lot of
Speaker 1: very systematic observations of the world and put it all
Speaker 1: into writing. What was he capable of sketching? Did the
Speaker 1: sketch animals that he saw? There are sketches, but I
Speaker 1: you know, to be honest, I never looked to see
Speaker 1: if the sketches were attributed directly to Darwin. I imagine
Speaker 1: there are some, but a lot of the stuff that
Speaker 1: I find wasn't direct darwin books. That would be more
Speaker 1: a little kind of a compilation. The stuff I saw was,
Speaker 1: you know, it was all his writings. I was reading
Speaker 1: the Beagle Journals, but it didn't have many illustrations. But
Speaker 1: there were some illustrations, and he he did some of them,
Speaker 1: but I don't know how much of it he actually
Speaker 1: did him. I think he did a lot of them. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sure he had to. But to what degree those
Speaker 1: are published in his work, I'm not sure, because he
Speaker 1: worked with some other people on some of this stuff,
Speaker 1: and I honestly I'm not sure. Yeah, he would have
Speaker 1: had to have drawn when he was, you know, on
Speaker 1: the Glop Ghost. It's not as though he had an
Speaker 1: illustrator with him correct, so he would have had to
Speaker 1: draw the observations. And to the degree that they were
Speaker 1: different subtleties which is what he observed, they would have
Speaker 1: to be detailed enough to describe that, I think, and
Speaker 1: and it may have well be that, you know, later
Speaker 1: on he had somebody do a better job of it.
Speaker 1: He could within his capabilities. The sad part, as I'm
Speaker 1: sure you all know, is at this point we have
Speaker 1: to talk about the fact that eventually Charles Darwin did die.
Speaker 1: What he's human, Yeah, he is a human mortality. On April.
Speaker 1: On April nineteenth of eighteen eighty two, sadly, Charles Darwin
Speaker 1: did pass away. He was seventy three years old. He
Speaker 1: died of heart failure at his home down House. He
Speaker 1: was with his family. His wife Emma was there, his
Speaker 1: daughter Henrietta, who was his fourth child, and his son Francis,
Speaker 1: who was his seventh child, were there with him. It
Speaker 1: wasn't originally the plan, but Darwin did end up being
Speaker 1: buried at Westminster Abbey. So he is near who is it.
Speaker 1: It's Isaac Newton, so a guy who an apple fell
Speaker 1: on his head, yes, and John Herschel. So he's near
Speaker 1: some some very very influential people. That obviously is a
Speaker 1: rather brief overview of Darwin himself. As I said before,
Speaker 1: please go out and do more reading on him. You
Speaker 1: will not be sorry for it. But we do need
Speaker 1: to go to our topic at this point, which is
Speaker 1: his health. Darwin suffered a huge range of symptoms through
Speaker 1: his entire life. One of the things that everybody knows
Speaker 1: and we've talked about a little bit is his sea sickness.
Speaker 1: But that wasn't the only thing that he suffered. I mean,
Speaker 1: while he was on the Beagle, he was extremely ill
Speaker 1: and he was nearly capacitated every time he went to
Speaker 1: see but he it wasn't as if he was at
Speaker 1: sea for the entire five years. The ship was actually
Speaker 1: at sea for a total of eighteen months. The rest
Speaker 1: of the time they were he was online, you know,
Speaker 1: they were at places, they were doing and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they'd spent a month or so in in location. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's a day or two, but a lot of time
Speaker 1: they'd spend weeks or months at places, so he didn't
Speaker 1: have to be on the boat the whole time, luckily
Speaker 1: for him. Yeah, that seasickness or motion sickness did follow
Speaker 1: him for the rest of his life. When he was
Speaker 1: an older man, he actually wouldn't write in carriages because
Speaker 1: the motion of the carriage made him ill, so he
Speaker 1: refused to take a carriage. He'd walk or ride a horse.
Speaker 1: So he invented the precursior to car sickness. I don't
Speaker 1: know if he invented it, but he certainly suffered from it.
Speaker 1: So let's go through the list of things that Darwin
Speaker 1: wrote about reported suffered from if you're a hypochondriac, Just like,
Speaker 1: fast forward through this part because I read it and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to do this episode
Speaker 1: anymore because I think I'm going to have all of
Speaker 1: the things that we talk about not I kept self
Speaker 1: fanalyzing as I was going through this list. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's start at the top. Were already talked out the
Speaker 1: vomiting and faintness of the side of blood, which isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily a physical illness. Yeah, I would say it's maybe
Speaker 1: not a symptom. But here is the actual list of symptoms. Vomiting,
Speaker 1: memory loss, malaise which is generally feeling sick, tiredness, skin
Speaker 1: problems as in exama and blisters, vertigo, loss of consciousness, cramps, indigestion,
Speaker 1: and gas. I love this. He described it as making airs. Technically,
Speaker 1: what he's doing, he is let's see, we've got dizziness, headaches, fainting, hysteria,
Speaker 1: and fits of crying. He's got a rapid heartbeat and
Speaker 1: heart palpitations, cachycardia, yep insomnia, vision problems, muscle spasms, memory loss, depression,
Speaker 1: feelings of impending death. I think I said memory loss twice.
Speaker 1: It must be losing memory. Could you imagine going to
Speaker 1: your doctor with this list? Yeah, I mean no, I'm
Speaker 1: sure he did go to his doctor with this list. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this as a whole. I mean sure, with
Speaker 1: like little bits and pieces. But could you mention taking
Speaker 1: that as one giant list? Wasn't and wasn't in terms
Speaker 1: of memory loss? Wasn't some of it more like lost time? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Wasn't that some of it as well? So that but
Speaker 1: he didn't have he did have times where he was
Speaker 1: like short bouts of it. Wasn't quite dementia, but yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of kind of almost amnesia about sure, But he
Speaker 1: also did lose time, right, that was on all thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to clarify because I had heard that
Speaker 1: in the list, so I wanted to make sure or
Speaker 1: not in the list, but in the research. So I
Speaker 1: just wanted to add it to list. Sorry, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: important for my theories, Okay, Okay, okay, yeah, because this
Speaker 1: is definitely just a bullet point. Yeah, we're now going
Speaker 1: to go finally into theories. There are forty theories, No,
Speaker 1: we're not doing for We're not doing everybody. All of
Speaker 1: our listeners were just like, no, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1: I think there's about a half dozen er so, but no,
Speaker 1: there's I've picked out some. There are. There's been a
Speaker 1: lot of them. Some of the older ones have really
Speaker 1: been disproven, but some of them are all over the maps.
Speaker 1: So we're just gonna go with kind of a short list.
Speaker 1: One thing I am gonna address early on with these
Speaker 1: theories is Darwin was not healthy for most of his life,
Speaker 1: not only as an adult, but as a child. He
Speaker 1: wasn't extremely healthy. He had some things going on, and
Speaker 1: a lot of these theories will focus on Darwin from
Speaker 1: the day he stepped on the h M S. Beagle forward.
Speaker 1: So that's something that I want to I want to
Speaker 1: bring up so everybody knows I do. There are a
Speaker 1: couple that we'll talk about specifically, but that's kind of
Speaker 1: a general concern that I've had with most of the
Speaker 1: theories that are out there. Theory number one, cyclic vomiting syndrome,
Speaker 1: also known as CVS. Yeah, um, so the medical science
Speaker 1: doesn't really know what causes CVS. What they do know
Speaker 1: is that the symptoms, which a lot of these theories.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a lot about symptoms. Uh. Those symptoms
Speaker 1: include vomiting, nausea, headaches, migraines, and occasionally abdominal pain. It
Speaker 1: did some reading, Uh, and this is so bad. But
Speaker 1: people who suffer from this can have up to a
Speaker 1: dozen episodes an hour. Yeah, not fun at all. Um.
Speaker 1: The the other thing that is kind of corroborates this
Speaker 1: is that people who suffer from CVS also have issues
Speaker 1: with motion sickness, and these attacks can be brought on
Speaker 1: the tacks of vomiting can be brought on from both
Speaker 1: positive and negative stimulus, you know, emotional stimulus. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy or yeah maybe that's right. Came from
Speaker 1: right now? No more fake throwing up noises. It's not happening. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we've talked about this, but Darwin was prone to
Speaker 1: being sick and ill and losing his stomach, and not
Speaker 1: just from c sick but there was also psychological and
Speaker 1: social stressors that would set him off. He was known,
Speaker 1: as he put it, to be knocked down by his
Speaker 1: attacks and that could last anywhere from hours to days,
Speaker 1: two weeks. That actually seems to be part of what
Speaker 1: may have delayed being knocked down, him being so ill
Speaker 1: for such lengths of time as part of what the
Speaker 1: ladle out of his writing, because he was taking years
Speaker 1: and years to write things, and yet he would lose
Speaker 1: months and months of time to being so ill to
Speaker 1: cope for what appears to have been some of that
Speaker 1: psychological stresser. One of the things that Darwin did, which
Speaker 1: is this kind of genius and kind of creepy hermit
Speaker 1: old man, is he put mirrors in places in his
Speaker 1: house so he could see who was in the room
Speaker 1: before he walked into it, so that if it was
Speaker 1: a guest that he didn't want to interact with he
Speaker 1: was worried that it was going to set him off,
Speaker 1: he could just about face and walk away. He never
Speaker 1: know you, Oh so and so is in the parlor.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go back upstairs. The major problem with
Speaker 1: this particular theory is that CVS primarily appears in children
Speaker 1: between the ages of three and seven. I don't know
Speaker 1: that that's I mean, you literally just not five minutes ago,
Speaker 1: said well, the problem with most of these theories is
Speaker 1: it doesn't address the fact that Darwin was sick most
Speaker 1: of his life. You're right, that's and I didn't see
Speaker 1: anything that said that Darwin was suffering from as a child,
Speaker 1: bouts of throwing up every hour on the hour, from
Speaker 1: multiple times as a child that do we know is
Speaker 1: cvs the sort of thing that gets progressively worse, Like
Speaker 1: could it have been that the onset he was just
Speaker 1: like kind of throwing up but once in a while,
Speaker 1: and they thought he just has a weak stomach, you know.
Speaker 1: It's I can't find a lot about Darwin as a
Speaker 1: child other than kind of some general statements. And that's
Speaker 1: probably because if father didn't, you know, sit down and
Speaker 1: write down little Charles got ill multiple times today because
Speaker 1: he was probably at work. There's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of that. And I do understand that there's kind of
Speaker 1: that funny division between this one actually talks about him
Speaker 1: and what could be a child, except that it sounds
Speaker 1: so extreme sure that I can't see someone who had
Speaker 1: and maybe he didn't have that bad. Maybe it wasn't
Speaker 1: that he was, you know, prone to being ill multiple
Speaker 1: times an hour continually, as some people that have this
Speaker 1: extremely bad do. I'm not I'm not positive on that,
Speaker 1: but it just from from the way that it was
Speaker 1: described in the in the journals and stuff that I
Speaker 1: read about it. It sounded to me like it was
Speaker 1: so debilitating that you couldn't do anything. And I didn't
Speaker 1: see a lot when or read a lot when Darwin
Speaker 1: was on land and not saying in the Beagle. I
Speaker 1: didn't see a whole lot where suddenly Darwin was on land.
Speaker 1: It was always yeah, I'm so happy on land, not
Speaker 1: yeah I'm so happy on land. I've been incapacitated for
Speaker 1: two days because I've been so ill, just like I
Speaker 1: was when I was on the ship. So that's that's
Speaker 1: why I questioned it, because it's almost like a gap,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, in in the illness. I don't know,
Speaker 1: this is This is me shrugging my shoulders. I'm not sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely so, I don't let's throw that one out. Plenty
Speaker 1: of other ones. Well, yeah, there there are anothers And
Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll throw that out, but we will
Speaker 1: go on to our next theory. The next theory says
Speaker 1: that Charles Darwin had Crone's disease. Do either of you
Speaker 1: know much about crones? Yeah, I knew somebody who had crowns.
Speaker 1: I have some friends. It's not a it's it's a
Speaker 1: really I feel feel for people who have crones, because
Speaker 1: it's not a good thing. Yes, one woman that I
Speaker 1: know had had to get an operation that took part
Speaker 1: of a colon out. Yeah, that does happen. There's there's
Speaker 1: a host of treatments for it today that for people
Speaker 1: who had it before there weren't. Yeah, and unfortunately, I
Speaker 1: think that it's not guaranteed that it's not going to
Speaker 1: come back, even though they took out the unhealthy part
Speaker 1: of a recovery colon. That's that's that's true. And let's
Speaker 1: let's talk about crones because that will kind of help
Speaker 1: explain some of why. If you don't know. Crone's is
Speaker 1: an inflammatory bowel disease. It can affect the digestive system
Speaker 1: anywhere from the beginning which would be the mouth, to
Speaker 1: the end the anus, so the whole way through. We
Speaker 1: don't know what causes crones exactly. There's thoughts that it
Speaker 1: it could be an autoimmune disease, or maybe it's just
Speaker 1: an immune system overreaction, could be a genetic defect, or
Speaker 1: it could be caused by environmental factors like diet and
Speaker 1: microbes that enter your system. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's probably not, but it could be Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's possible, it's it's something that we haven't figured out yet.
Speaker 1: So yeah, most of the people, I guess I've known
Speaker 1: a couple of people with crones and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: they've tried you know, varied diets or like moving other
Speaker 1: places and things like that, and that very rarely helps them.
Speaker 1: So the only thing that I've the people that I've known,
Speaker 1: the only thing that helped them was either I think
Speaker 1: it's every three months of steroid injection of some kind,
Speaker 1: or I have a friend to uh he ingests hookworm
Speaker 1: a certain dosage of it, which is then makes his
Speaker 1: immune system so busy fighting hookworm that it doesn't go
Speaker 1: crazy and as intestine. He's been doing it for years
Speaker 1: and he's never been healthier short of always being on
Speaker 1: the drugs. It's better than being on drugs. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a natural way to go about him provides some
Speaker 1: nice home for them hookworms. He's a hookworm preserve. I
Speaker 1: don't know if people are as familiar with us um
Speaker 1: with Crohn's disease. So like, the symptoms are well, the
Speaker 1: symptoms are kind of varied and they come on and
Speaker 1: there's a pretty big age age range. They can come
Speaker 1: on anywhere between fifteen and thirty. So this potentially could
Speaker 1: fall within the realm of Darwin because he was twenty
Speaker 1: one when he first left with the Beagle. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it I mean, I think it can of back to
Speaker 1: you even younger than that. Sometimes it can. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible. There are you know, sadly, people who
Speaker 1: begin to show signs of it for seven or eight
Speaker 1: years old. But as you were asking devon the symptoms
Speaker 1: they come and go, which you know that's referred to
Speaker 1: as a flare up and they range from cramping and
Speaker 1: bloating to gas or diarrhea or even bleeding of the intestines. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's sadly and uh there's a possibility of intestinal blockage
Speaker 1: or constipation and that can cause scarring of the intestines,
Speaker 1: which can then a cause further damage and be cause
Speaker 1: vomiting and nausea. And this is this is the insult
Speaker 1: injury part of it for me, is we talked about
Speaker 1: that it affects everything from beginning to end. The mouth.
Speaker 1: The beginning you people who have crones can develop sores
Speaker 1: and ulcers in their mouth, which by the way, Darwin
Speaker 1: had he did he did. Indeed, other symptoms that people
Speaker 1: can suffer would include fatigue, anemia, and pale complexion. But
Speaker 1: let's let's go look at the corroborating symptoms that Darwin experience.
Speaker 1: He had abdominal pain, had constant gas vomiting which specifically
Speaker 1: was stomach fluids. It wasn't food fatigue, and of course
Speaker 1: all that was coming and going over the course of
Speaker 1: his life. And then he also had skin rashes and boils.
Speaker 1: So that's that's kind of corroborating. Yeah, there were there
Speaker 1: were some other symptoms that he had to Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know the thing is is when I was doing
Speaker 1: the research, there's a couple of medical papers which I've
Speaker 1: used for part of this that talk about the fact
Speaker 1: that they believed that Darwin had crones, but he had
Speaker 1: it specifically in the upper small intestines, and that I
Speaker 1: read that paper and it's interesting how they can tell
Speaker 1: what part of your digestive system is as a problem. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is, Well, it's it's because of the difference in
Speaker 1: the symptoms. When it's in the upper intestines, it's primarily
Speaker 1: associated with some nausea and vomiting and pain in the
Speaker 1: upper abdomen, which can become intense, and that again was
Speaker 1: described by Darwin. He described the origin of the air
Speaker 1: as somewhere lower down than the stomach, which would kind
Speaker 1: of align with that location. The symptoms increased after he
Speaker 1: eat a large meal, but weren't as bad after small meals. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Soft foods like plain puddings also didn't bother him. Evidently,
Speaker 1: his wife Emma Darwin. Her cookbooks were described as being
Speaker 1: about one half puddings. What kind of puddings are we talking?
Speaker 1: Are we talking like puddings as we Americans think of puddings?
Speaker 1: Are we thinking of like bread puddings? Are we think
Speaker 1: thinking like bread puddings? Stuff like that? I don't think
Speaker 1: without a lot of protein or fats and more like
Speaker 1: plain foods. I gotta be honest, I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: actually look up Emma Darwin's cookbook. I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: what was in that. I just I'm bringing this up
Speaker 1: because I have something I'm going to add in a second.
Speaker 1: I just want to kind of like build my case.
Speaker 1: All right, I got you. I wonder if you can
Speaker 1: find your cookbook on the internet. Oh, maybe on Amazon.
Speaker 1: Here's here's a couple more things about when crones affects
Speaker 1: the upper intestines. People don't normally have diarrhea as as much,
Speaker 1: say as people would have the effects in the lower
Speaker 1: portions of their intentional system, and instead they tend to
Speaker 1: be they tend to suffer more from constipation, and that's
Speaker 1: something that later in life Darwin had he ordered animas
Speaker 1: for that very reason. Of course, a lot of older
Speaker 1: people tend to get out of constipation too. I don't
Speaker 1: know why that, and that could just be a symptom
Speaker 1: of age. You're absolutely right. Joe Darwin complained he had
Speaker 1: a couple of other strange complaints that this research seemed
Speaker 1: to point to us being symptoms of crowns. He complained
Speaker 1: of pins and needles in his hands and fingers that
Speaker 1: kept him from working. He also complained of numbness and
Speaker 1: said his hands felt like they've been dipped in hell fire.
Speaker 1: This research says that this may be due to damage
Speaker 1: of sensitive nerve fibers. According to this researcher, that is
Speaker 1: a very common thing with Crone's disease, and it's it's
Speaker 1: attributed to a deficiency in vitamin B twelve and that
Speaker 1: either whether that's through the lack of absorption or what
Speaker 1: have you. They're saying that that causes damage to the
Speaker 1: sensitive nerve fibers. Yeah. There, And there's a number of
Speaker 1: other things that they brought up, you know, say sing
Speaker 1: that the twitching and spasm ng that Darwin suffered was
Speaker 1: due to hyperventilation, which would have been caused by his
Speaker 1: incessant vomiting, which would then would mean he'd have CEO
Speaker 1: two and hydrogen issues in his his respiratory system. I honestly,
Speaker 1: I didn't dive a whole lot into that, but that's
Speaker 1: what that pointed out as another sign that it had
Speaker 1: to be Crones. But I can just can I just
Speaker 1: read you a list of symptoms quick, yeah, okay, extreme fatigue,
Speaker 1: pale skin, weakness, shortness of breath, chest pain, frequent infections, headaches,
Speaker 1: dizziness or lightheadedness, cold hands or feet, inflammation or soreness
Speaker 1: of your tongue, fast heartbeat, poor appetite, and uncomfortable tingling
Speaker 1: or crawling feeling in your extremities. Is a fairly comprehensive
Speaker 1: list of iron efficiency, iron deficiency, anemia. Yeah right, So
Speaker 1: he could be because of Crone's disease, or he could
Speaker 1: have been an emic his whole life, right, if he
Speaker 1: had a poor appetite, and he said, oh, my temmy
Speaker 1: hurts after I eat a lot of food because I
Speaker 1: don't get enough iron. Well, then he's eating less suff
Speaker 1: it becomes a vicious cycle, gets worse and worse and
Speaker 1: worse as he goes on. I think you know that
Speaker 1: list is pretty comprehensive, and you know all of these things.
Speaker 1: It makes a lot of sense to me. It could
Speaker 1: be from a crone's disease kind of situation because his
Speaker 1: body is not absorbing it. It could be because he
Speaker 1: didn't get it. It's possible he like didn't get it
Speaker 1: as a child out of his diet. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I mean it's that's that's not uncommon, though I correct
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, Devon. Is it not typical that
Speaker 1: the people who have iron deficiency more often than not,
Speaker 1: it's more women than men. Not that I'm saying that
Speaker 1: men don't have this. No, men get it. I mean,
Speaker 1: but it's it's not as it's more frequent for women
Speaker 1: because we bleed more often. I mean, I mean genuinely
Speaker 1: because our body is to produce more blood. But I'm
Speaker 1: getting that. That doesn't mean that Darwin couldn't have suffered
Speaker 1: from it. I would play iron deficiencies way more common
Speaker 1: than Crohn's disease, you know, So I don't know, But
Speaker 1: I don't know how like that seems like something that
Speaker 1: should have been recognized at the time, you know, doesn't
Speaker 1: it doesn't It seem like the sort of thing, how
Speaker 1: do you how do you test for an iron deficiency? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean they test your blood. I mean either they
Speaker 1: look at your blood or they do an iron test.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I just I don't even know.
Speaker 1: I haven't researched this, so I don't even know how
Speaker 1: well understood blood was in those days, part of the
Speaker 1: finteenth century. This is this is the joy of doing
Speaker 1: your show where it's a conversation and suddenly one of
Speaker 1: us pops the question and we're like, crap, why didn't
Speaker 1: I look into that? Didn't I look that up? That
Speaker 1: would have been really easy. Yeah, people know how to
Speaker 1: use Google. But I think, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It seems like a pretty straightforward and that, you know,
Speaker 1: it wold have intensified when he was on the ship
Speaker 1: because he really wasn't eating well right, and then by
Speaker 1: the time he got biscuits, stuff like, probably because he
Speaker 1: was seasick, right, which whatever I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: you can even say that it was as simple as
Speaker 1: he got really seasick and he had this other thing
Speaker 1: that was a pre existing condition, which you know, kind
Speaker 1: of caused the snowball effect almost of he wasn't a
Speaker 1: healthy man, he was deficient in something. He went on
Speaker 1: a ship and got seasick, so he was even eating
Speaker 1: more poorly and feeling sicker and so much stuff that
Speaker 1: he really wasn't really wasn't getting anything anyways. You know,
Speaker 1: it gets off, he's fine on land because he's just
Speaker 1: you know, he's not seasick anymore, and he's eating a
Speaker 1: little better and he's feeling better and he's out in
Speaker 1: the sun and you know, and then he gets back
Speaker 1: on the ship and it's awful. And then by the
Speaker 1: time he gets off the ship, he's become so deficient
Speaker 1: that it just keeps getting worse and worse. I don't know, no,
Speaker 1: I mean that it could absolutely have caught and if
Speaker 1: he was if he was a chronic complainer, you know,
Speaker 1: and he was kind of one of those willful people
Speaker 1: who was like, well I don't feel good, like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna eat putting all the time, not like
Speaker 1: the steak that I should be eating, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. Sorry not to like totally
Speaker 1: steamroll your Crone's disease. That they could have been crones
Speaker 1: because of you know, or it could have been iron
Speaker 1: efficiency or anemia because of crone's. But yeah, no, no, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean these that's one of the things that I
Speaker 1: found in doing this research. As you find a cause,
Speaker 1: but then it it just it kind of spider webs
Speaker 1: out from that central point. So that's very that's very apt,
Speaker 1: and it could have been any of those. Let's move
Speaker 1: on to our next theory. Okay, another theory. Well, the
Speaker 1: next theory is that Darwin had mitochondrial issues. And we're
Speaker 1: now going to get into some heavy science. Mitochondrial issues
Speaker 1: and disorders are caused by dysfunctions in the mitochondria. And
Speaker 1: you might be asking yourself right now, what is mitochondria.
Speaker 1: They are specialized components known as organelles of the cells
Speaker 1: that are present in all living things except bacteria. What
Speaker 1: mitochondria basically do is they use the oxygen we breathe
Speaker 1: in to get energy from the electrons found in our
Speaker 1: food that we eat, So basically they're they're gently pulling
Speaker 1: that energy away and that's what powers us. They're they're
Speaker 1: kind of little fuel packets that we run on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the vast majority of the energy that we have
Speaker 1: is generated in that process. So they're they're really important
Speaker 1: if your mitochondria don't function properly, or or if you
Speaker 1: were to say, run out of oxygen, your your body
Speaker 1: does have ways of compensating, and they're not the best
Speaker 1: ways to make energy. I'm going to say it that way,
Speaker 1: because that way of making energy is fermentation, which is
Speaker 1: not a clean process. It's actually a really dirty way
Speaker 1: of making energy. It's got a lot of toxic byproducts
Speaker 1: with like carbon dioxides, acids, hydrogen gas. Lactic acid is
Speaker 1: another thing, which, of course, when you get enough of
Speaker 1: that in your body, that's kind of the the achy
Speaker 1: muscle syndrome. You know, we've work too much, you got
Speaker 1: built up of lactic acid. Well, your body has ways
Speaker 1: to either mechanically or chemically get rid of it, but
Speaker 1: if you have too much, it can cause a lot
Speaker 1: of ill effects which are highly highly um they're highly
Speaker 1: negative for you. Interestingly, you as a person. Yeah, each
Speaker 1: of us as a person, not specifically this time. Every human,
Speaker 1: every human gets all of their mitochondria from their mother.
Speaker 1: And there's some other science that debates that, but we're
Speaker 1: not going to go into that. But why I bring
Speaker 1: that up is that Darwin's mother was ill, as we
Speaker 1: had talked about in the beginning, and she potentially could
Speaker 1: have had mitochondrial issues herself. Yeah, well he had kids, right, Well,
Speaker 1: Darwin had brothers and sisters. He was one of six,
Speaker 1: and his brothers and sisters all suffered similar issues as him,
Speaker 1: to varying degrees. He had ten children, Darwin did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of the seven that lived past childhood, they were all fine.
Speaker 1: But that's because if you think about the mitochondrial aspect
Speaker 1: of it, if his mother had an issue, she would
Speaker 1: have passed it on to her kids, who, as I said,
Speaker 1: had issues. Good note, because they got there michondria from Emma.
Speaker 1: So it could potentially be that. And it's amazing to me.
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about this, but Darwin died at
Speaker 1: seventy three. We were just talking about his kids. All
Speaker 1: of his kids lived to be in there, those the
Speaker 1: ones that lived into adulthood seventies, eighties, nearly the nineties.
Speaker 1: Like it was a really long lived family, which was
Speaker 1: just kind of crazy to me. I never realized that before.
Speaker 1: Well that's that's a long time to live at that. Well,
Speaker 1: for for Charles himself, I would say yes, because again
Speaker 1: he was born on eighteen o nine, but his children
Speaker 1: were born in the eighteen forties four wards, so they
Speaker 1: were dying in like the nineteen tens to nineteen thirties,
Speaker 1: where medicines a little better than when their dad was
Speaker 1: a young man. I'm just saying there's some factors that
Speaker 1: it advances that would have helped them, but still they
Speaker 1: were long lived people. Another thing though, that I want
Speaker 1: to bring up, because we're still a mitochondria. As much
Speaker 1: as I know everybody's like next theory, we're not done
Speaker 1: with mitochondria because this one keeps going. There is mitochondrial
Speaker 1: issue that is called melas syndrome, and that is mitochondrial
Speaker 1: mitochondrial and suffer myopathy. Thank you, Joe. I totally said
Speaker 1: that one like a hundred times, and it worked as
Speaker 1: soon as he couldn't do it. That's a hard word,
Speaker 1: if word, but basically, but basically that's a state where
Speaker 1: a person doesn't use their their This this syndrome is
Speaker 1: a state where people don't use their mitochondria as their
Speaker 1: primary source of gaining energy. So that's again that's a
Speaker 1: chronic issue where there that's an issue where they chronically
Speaker 1: have build up of all of those bad things that
Speaker 1: we talked about in their system, the lactic acid and
Speaker 1: everything else. But it's a rare syndrome and it's extremely
Speaker 1: hard to diagnose because it shares symptoms with I don't know,
Speaker 1: like eight to ten other syndromes that are out there,
Speaker 1: like crowns and chronic barfing syndrome, no, like other things
Speaker 1: that are much more scientific than that. But it does
Speaker 1: have a host of symptoms that are very similar to Darwin.
Speaker 1: And again we're gonna go through this. The major ones
Speaker 1: that are going to be migraines, vomiting, seizures, cognitive problems,
Speaker 1: and neurological issues. The prognosis isn't good for people who
Speaker 1: have this, and those some people who have this syndrome
Speaker 1: can live to be fifty or sixty. Most people don't
Speaker 1: make it that long. It would sound like if your
Speaker 1: body has got to work that hard and it's still
Speaker 1: getting bad, bad energy and lots of toxins down. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be something that's going to affect you
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. So this kind of plays into well,
Speaker 1: this could explain why Darwin was sick as a kid.
Speaker 1: He wasn't a well child. But the thing that I
Speaker 1: don't that makes me think it's not right is that
Speaker 1: the people that have this, they start experiencing stroke like episodes.
Speaker 1: And the latest of the latest that comes on is
Speaker 1: about age forty. Yeah, go ahead, lost time, tachycardia, muscle spasms.
Speaker 1: I mean, is it required that it's a stroke or
Speaker 1: is it stroke like symptoms because those sounds stroke like
Speaker 1: to me, it progressively causes brain damage. If he lost
Speaker 1: time and had memory loss, he had brain damage. I mean,
Speaker 1: even if it I mean, even if it is like
Speaker 1: a dementia sort of situation, that's brain damage. So he
Speaker 1: had neurological but he wasn't. He wasn't a tottering, confused
Speaker 1: man at the end, which at seventy three, if he
Speaker 1: had been experiencing these stroke like attacks, he would have
Speaker 1: had extreme brain damage by that time, probably, yeah, which
Speaker 1: means he would not have been nearly as sharp and
Speaker 1: well together in my mind. Well, It's hard, don't These
Speaker 1: things are always so hard because it's like, how firm
Speaker 1: is that? You know? It's the like, well, people with
Speaker 1: this type of cancer die within five years, but then
Speaker 1: there's the one percent that lives for fifty more years.
Speaker 1: You know. I think with these sort of things, it's rare, right,
Speaker 1: and should we be saying, yeah, Darwin had this super
Speaker 1: rare thing, and also he was the super rare person
Speaker 1: who no, we shouldn't. But I do think that some
Speaker 1: of his symptoms could be stroke. Like that's all I
Speaker 1: wanted to say, and I will I will back you
Speaker 1: up with that with this bit of information, which is
Speaker 1: one of Darwin's sons. He went to college, he had
Speaker 1: a promising career. I cannot at the moment think of
Speaker 1: what that career was. But instead he went back and
Speaker 1: he was basically his father's research assistant and secretary and
Speaker 1: helped him with a lot of the writing. I don't
Speaker 1: want to smear Darwin's name, but it is entirely possible
Speaker 1: that his son compensated and covered some of that, you know,
Speaker 1: protect your father, that's a very natural reaction. I don't
Speaker 1: know that that's true, but it could have been, and
Speaker 1: that maybe Maybe you're right. Maybe it was worse than
Speaker 1: we know, and that's why we didn't know. It's let's
Speaker 1: move on to another theory one may have heard of. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think most people have heard of this, and I'm
Speaker 1: not crazy about this theory, but I went ahead and
Speaker 1: in the in the spirit of what we do, I
Speaker 1: included it. And that theory is lactose intolerance. With the
Speaker 1: bazilion versions of milk that's out there. I'm guessing that
Speaker 1: most people know what lactose intolerance is, but if you don't,
Speaker 1: here's what it is. It's the intolerant. The lactose intolerance
Speaker 1: is the inability of humans, most the adults, though sometimes
Speaker 1: it is children, to be able to digest lactose, which
Speaker 1: is a sugar found in milk and other dairy by
Speaker 1: products or is it byproduct or is it a product product.
Speaker 1: It's a product Okay, direct byproducts suddenly didn't sound right
Speaker 1: to me. Uh, it's caused by Lactose intolerance is caused
Speaker 1: by low levels of lactasse, which is an enzyme that
Speaker 1: you have in your body that allows you to break
Speaker 1: down lactose via digested You break it down into little
Speaker 1: bits and pieces so that you can observe it and
Speaker 1: use it. I mean, that's the simplest version to do it.
Speaker 1: For folks that have lactose intolerance, the symptoms are gonna
Speaker 1: be or they could be bloating in cramps of the
Speaker 1: in the abdomen, flatulence, diarrhea, nausea, rumbling stomach, or potentially vomiting,
Speaker 1: and this would all follow consuming dairy products. Studies I've
Speaker 1: read for this theory go as such foods such as sugar, bacon, butter,
Speaker 1: and any desserts seemed to set off symptoms in Darwin.
Speaker 1: And this is according to this researcher. I didn't see
Speaker 1: this corroborating anywhere else, just just so I had that
Speaker 1: on the board. They also said that Darwin had a
Speaker 1: sweet tooth and that the majority of his wife's recipes
Speaker 1: involved heavy cream those puddings we talked about before. To
Speaker 1: make things worse, typical remedies of the time for feeling
Speaker 1: ill were of the nineteenth century. Of that time were
Speaker 1: to have a warm milk as a nightcap, so that
Speaker 1: could have aggravated his symptoms if it was indeed lactose intolerance.
Speaker 1: You know, um, when he was at sea in the
Speaker 1: Beagle that his symptoms should have gotten better, right, because
Speaker 1: he wouldn't. I mean maybe they had cheese on board.
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, but they would have hard cheeses
Speaker 1: which don't have lactose in Um. Yeah, I had the
Speaker 1: very same thoughts. So actually that's a great question to segue.
Speaker 1: What about Celiac disease, though, which is gluten intolerance, which
Speaker 1: has the same kind of symptoms plus anemia. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I there's been so much on gluten. I just like
Speaker 1: the real version of it. Celiac disease is the real
Speaker 1: version of it. It you know, includes all of these symptoms, right,
Speaker 1: pretty much all of his stuff, but also causes you know,
Speaker 1: iron deficiency, which we talked about earlier, could have caused
Speaker 1: a lot of his symptoms arthritis, depression, and anxiety, seizures,
Speaker 1: mouth sores, head sores. Those are you know again, this
Speaker 1: is that rabbit hole right of like we just we
Speaker 1: could piggyback on every single one. But I think if
Speaker 1: we're going to do an intolerance, gluten intolerance makes way
Speaker 1: more sense than lactose intolerance in my mind. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I immediately would have ruled out. But but you know
Speaker 1: the thing, I mean, you both have a great point
Speaker 1: about well, what if, why was it? What was symptoms
Speaker 1: have been better on the Beagle, And wouldn't he have
Speaker 1: probably not been getting that much milk when he was
Speaker 1: traveling and he's on land. He would have been getting
Speaker 1: more on land than he would have on the ship.
Speaker 1: He was not always in major cities. He'd be hanging
Speaker 1: out with indigenous people's so it's not as if they've
Speaker 1: got a lot to spare and they'd be like, hey,
Speaker 1: Mr Darwin, here's a jug of milk, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: think that that would be that common of a product.
Speaker 1: But he definitely wouldn't have had it on the ship.
Speaker 1: That's not so they don't keep perishables on they don't.
Speaker 1: That wouldn't have been the cause for a sea sickness.
Speaker 1: And and my other problem with this is, and again
Speaker 1: I know this is a rabbit hole, but lactose intolerance
Speaker 1: doesn't cause memory loss. It doesn't cause, as far as
Speaker 1: I can tell, muscle spasms outside of the gut. So
Speaker 1: there's is why Celiaxes might chose an intolerance because it
Speaker 1: cause those things. I don't know, I know, I know
Speaker 1: it is completely possible. Yeah, absolutely, Actually I'm shocked that
Speaker 1: nobody's come up with that already. If nobody has Scarlett
Speaker 1: the paper, well, yeah, four, which they do the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't know how to write science stuff.
Speaker 1: It's inescapable. Is how you start your paper? ESCA? Yes,
Speaker 1: well let's uh okay, well let's let's let's get away
Speaker 1: from the intolerance one theories that we're talking about. We
Speaker 1: have at least one more. We've got more than one
Speaker 1: more to go. We've got two more to go, so
Speaker 1: we're almost done there. This theory is that everything that
Speaker 1: Darwin suffered was psycho smatic. Actually it could have literally
Speaker 1: all been in his head psychosomatic conditions which are now
Speaker 1: referred to in the d s M five. If you
Speaker 1: don't know what the d s M five is, it's
Speaker 1: the Diagnostics Statistic Manual of Mental Disorders. But in the
Speaker 1: volume five, yes, thank you, in the ds M five
Speaker 1: they've I guess it's changed from volume four to volume five.
Speaker 1: They've now put it under kind of a general heading,
Speaker 1: which is a somatic symptom disorders. It's when someone believes
Speaker 1: that they have a physical illness or an injury where
Speaker 1: there is no apparent physical cause for said symptom and
Speaker 1: it's not a psychological issue or just a disorder. So
Speaker 1: schizophrenia is something that is a psychological disorder, but psycho
Speaker 1: smatic things don't have anything specific that can be pointed to.
Speaker 1: Some people say that it's almost like hypochondria and they're crazy,
Speaker 1: and these people aren't crazy. They they truly and wholly
Speaker 1: believe that something is wrong, and it can manifest itself
Speaker 1: in real and sometimes debilitating symptoms which can really really
Speaker 1: do bad things to people, and it can cause degrees
Speaker 1: of pain which are excruciating. There's one of the the
Speaker 1: examples that I guess I got, which is probably the
Speaker 1: best generalization of how this work that I've ever read,
Speaker 1: is as follows. A person is concerned about their health
Speaker 1: and they think they have a heart problem, So they
Speaker 1: constantly focus on what they were, what they're experiencing, and
Speaker 1: what's going on with their body, and that constant worry
Speaker 1: initiates their basic feary action, which is an increase in
Speaker 1: heart rate. Suddenly they realize their heart is beating faster.
Speaker 1: That validates that they're right, that there is something that
Speaker 1: is wrong with their heart, and that starts the cycle again.
Speaker 1: Suddenly they get even more afraid and their heart rate
Speaker 1: goes up even higher, and it works on and on
Speaker 1: and on. That That is, in its simplest form, how
Speaker 1: the psychosomatic conditions operate. Folks that have this, they seem
Speaker 1: to be able to well, it's it's it's inadvertently influenced
Speaker 1: their body's functions. It's you've heard mind over matter, but
Speaker 1: this is mind over body and to a point that
Speaker 1: it can be detrimental. Well, I mean I think everybody
Speaker 1: can do that to some extent. I mean you can
Speaker 1: you know, say I kind of don't feel good, I
Speaker 1: really don't feel good. Uh, and just like you kind
Speaker 1: of work yourself into that, you know, mix, or like
Speaker 1: you're hanging out with somebody who's sick and then later
Speaker 1: and yeah, you take one cough and suddenly you're you
Speaker 1: have it, or you know, somebody says, oh is that
Speaker 1: an ant on? You know, it's fine, and suddenly your
Speaker 1: skin is crawling. You know it's that. But the differences
Speaker 1: is that way more extreme? Yes, it's it's much more extreme,
Speaker 1: and it's it tends to be much more as a
Speaker 1: long term and since you know, pain is a signal
Speaker 1: from body to your brain and sense, it's routed basically
Speaker 1: into your brain. Your brain processes and recognizes it as pain.
Speaker 1: It's entirely conceivable that your brain could actually manufacture pain
Speaker 1: signals for itself. Could I mean, it's like, yeah, it's control, no,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it really is. It's it's the computer that
Speaker 1: operates everything about you. So it could be misfiring signals
Speaker 1: because it it's just some other part of it is
Speaker 1: decided that this is going on and it sends the signal.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's this is um It's a very murky
Speaker 1: area when you start getting into conditions like this and
Speaker 1: in the brain. The most common things though that people
Speaker 1: experience or or report it's gonna be heart palpitations, vomiting,
Speaker 1: lack or shortness of breath, diarrhea, pain in the back
Speaker 1: and joint, some muscles, head pains, aches, and dizziness. And
Speaker 1: there are there are theories out there that this is
Speaker 1: a coping mechanism for some other larger emotional stressor I've
Speaker 1: seen stuff that said that this is what was wrong
Speaker 1: with Darwin, that he had a psychosomatic issue and it
Speaker 1: was all tied back to the death of his mother. Again,
Speaker 1: I understand that that's going to be a very large
Speaker 1: and traumatic event I don't know. I don't see any
Speaker 1: huge ties to it. I've also seen the same thing proffered,
Speaker 1: except saying that it's tied to his resentment or hatred
Speaker 1: of his father, who again, as they said before, was
Speaker 1: he's either described as very stern or a tyrant. So
Speaker 1: we could be you know, these these folks are pointing
Speaker 1: and saying, well, it's got to be because of his dad,
Speaker 1: a right. You know, I think both of those are
Speaker 1: a little a little thin though, because like back in
Speaker 1: the day, in his day, it was not at all
Speaker 1: in common to lose a parent at a very young age.
Speaker 1: So that would have been a hell of a lot
Speaker 1: of sick people. Yeah, yeah, that's that's a normal thing.
Speaker 1: Or like, hey, how many brothers and sisters did he have?
Speaker 1: He had six? He was one of six, right, and
Speaker 1: so for it to all affect them all right, because
Speaker 1: they were all sick, right, correct. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: to different degrees, that seems weird to me too, that
Speaker 1: everybody would be suffering from the same kind of psychosomatic Well, okay,
Speaker 1: and if if well we can we can also flip
Speaker 1: the tables on it and say, if it is from
Speaker 1: a major death situation, like that. Darwin had ten children,
Speaker 1: three of whom died at a very young age, and
Speaker 1: his first I think it was his first child died
Speaker 1: and his very the first and the tenth died at
Speaker 1: in infancy if I remember right. And then one of
Speaker 1: the girls died I think she was eight or ten,
Speaker 1: I'm not positive off the top of my head. But
Speaker 1: why didn't the other seven have these kind of issues
Speaker 1: with the loss of their sibling or I mean, do
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, like, why is it more prevalent?
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying I'm not I'm not definitely not
Speaker 1: trying to say that anything negative against the folks that
Speaker 1: experience these kind of symptoms, but it seems that it'd
Speaker 1: be rare that that many siblings would all experience this
Speaker 1: the exact same way and have it. Yes, yeah, that
Speaker 1: that is an anomaly to me. There are detractors for
Speaker 1: this particular theory. We might be detractors, we might be
Speaker 1: a little bit, but well, you know what's really funny
Speaker 1: is that I don't mean to get off track, but
Speaker 1: all of these uh, these medical research papers that I read,
Speaker 1: they would espouse why they were right, and then it
Speaker 1: almost seems as if they knew the authors of the
Speaker 1: other papers, because they would specifically go after things that
Speaker 1: were in the other papers, saying this is why that
Speaker 1: theory is wrong, and that that's where I got some
Speaker 1: of the the issues with the Darwin having a psycho
Speaker 1: somatic conditions bit, and I'll just I'll just summarize it here,
Speaker 1: which is people say, well, he wouldn't have had that,
Speaker 1: because if if it was that, then stress situations for
Speaker 1: his work should have been much worse and it should
Speaker 1: have almost prevented him from working. One of the things
Speaker 1: that's pointed out is that he never had a quote
Speaker 1: unquote attack problem when he was writing on the Origin
Speaker 1: of Species, which I don't buy because it took him
Speaker 1: eight years to write the damn thing. So I don't
Speaker 1: know how they validate that. Uh, there is some evidence
Speaker 1: that says that he did have stressful situations, but they
Speaker 1: say it wasn't. Is when he wrote his work on
Speaker 1: on corals, which took him I believe it was three
Speaker 1: and a half years. He was only working on it,
Speaker 1: what was it twenty three months out of that time,
Speaker 1: and and investigating corals wasn't all that confrontational, whereas on
Speaker 1: the Origin of species I mean that that was gonna
Speaker 1: was a poop storm. He was basically killing God and
Speaker 1: everything that we knew about science up to that date
Speaker 1: with that theory, Well, I don't think it really kills God. Actually,
Speaker 1: well there's there unless unless you're a creationist, of course,
Speaker 1: But well no, there's actually a lot of good stuff
Speaker 1: about he and his wife and their debates on God
Speaker 1: and stuff like that and what his theory had on it.
Speaker 1: But that's that's you know, that stuff is out there
Speaker 1: and really good, and we're not going to go into that.
Speaker 1: I guess, you know. My question would be did he
Speaker 1: have really big episodes when his kids died? Like is
Speaker 1: their correlation there, because that's a pretty big stressful thing,
Speaker 1: and is that documented. I do know that Darwin suffered
Speaker 1: greatly after the death of his daughter the she was,
Speaker 1: like I said, she was eight to ten. I almost
Speaker 1: want to say her name was Annie. I wish I'd
Speaker 1: written this down the other two too. Did he suffer?
Speaker 1: I don't know how much he suffered. I haven't seen
Speaker 1: as much of that. His His last son, the tenth child,
Speaker 1: died very quickly. Uh, and I believe his first child
Speaker 1: didn't make it more than a year. At the most,
Speaker 1: I could be wrong on that. Games like, after your
Speaker 1: first kid dies, maybe maybe you're gonna suffer a hell
Speaker 1: of a lot more than probably. I mean, not to
Speaker 1: be insensitive, Yeah, but the thing about it is, though,
Speaker 1: is it it was not uncommon for kids to die.
Speaker 1: You It's like if you have if you have a
Speaker 1: kid who's like, to say, a couple of weeks old,
Speaker 1: and they die, you know, I'm sure that's gonna hurt
Speaker 1: really bad. But but if you've got a daughter who's
Speaker 1: like eight ten years old, you've been hanging out with
Speaker 1: it for all these years, you know, and you think
Speaker 1: she's made it past the hump of dying and you know,
Speaker 1: dying in young childhood, and all of a sudden she's
Speaker 1: taken from you. Anyway, that's gotta hurt pretty bad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I want to say she got scarlet fever which had
Speaker 1: been sweeping through the area. Yeah, I mean, it's gonna
Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, trying to say that we're not that,
Speaker 1: but I think it doesn't make sense to me that,
Speaker 1: you know, he those would be documented cases. But I
Speaker 1: just don't think this is a good theory anyway. On
Speaker 1: board with a psychosomatic condition, I did say his his
Speaker 1: his offspring had a pretty good survival rate for those days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they really did seven of ten. That's pretty good. That's
Speaker 1: good for that era. You're right. I mean they were
Speaker 1: also a bit in a wealthy family. That really helps PA. Yes,
Speaker 1: let's now go on to the last theory. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: actually at the end of theories almost. Our final theory
Speaker 1: is that Darwin was suffering from chagas disease. The assassin beetle.
Speaker 1: I really again, this is another one I have issues with,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to run it through. Is the theory
Speaker 1: says that Darwin contracted a parasite while he was on
Speaker 1: his excursions in South America. And the theory it doesn't
Speaker 1: pin down a date. There's two potential dates that this
Speaker 1: might have happened. And I've actually I actually because I
Speaker 1: had the Beagle Diaries. I read the descriptions on these
Speaker 1: dates or the notes and entries. One of them is
Speaker 1: going to be September of eighteen thirty four or late September,
Speaker 1: or the other one is in late March of eighteen
Speaker 1: thirty five. The eighteen thirty four date works for me
Speaker 1: because Darwin describes a lot of symptoms of illness that
Speaker 1: could corroborate with this. The eighteen thirty five date gets
Speaker 1: brought up because lo and behold. The bug itself is
Speaker 1: mentioned in his writings, Uh they there was a swarm
Speaker 1: of locusts, And then later on he says a bug
Speaker 1: bit him and he thinks it was this bug. This well,
Speaker 1: this bug is called well, it can be called the
Speaker 1: kissing bug or the assassin bug. But if Darwin he
Speaker 1: he missed, he missnamed it, he got the name wrong
Speaker 1: in his diaries, it's the benchuka bug. These things are
Speaker 1: really really not a good looking bug, got a weird
Speaker 1: like probiscus on them almost. I mean it's it's it's
Speaker 1: definitely it's a biting insect. They they're kind of like
Speaker 1: a flee or tick in terms of they live off
Speaker 1: of the blood of other animals. Problem is they also
Speaker 1: have a tendency to pack around a parasite, and that
Speaker 1: parasite is gonna be tried penas soma cruizy, which is
Speaker 1: an hasty little parasite. It's not a good thing, and
Speaker 1: it affects people in two stages. The acute stage, or
Speaker 1: the first stage, last for several weeks and can be
Speaker 1: displayed possibly as fever, fatigue, body aches, muscle pain, headaches, rash,
Speaker 1: loss of appetite, diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting anybody. But can
Speaker 1: I get any more symptoms I can throw? That was
Speaker 1: a huge um I do I do? Before we get
Speaker 1: too far into the second phase, want to talk about
Speaker 1: one thing that comes up that I don't that really
Speaker 1: makes me think this isn't right. And that is one
Speaker 1: of the most notable signs of infection with this parasite,
Speaker 1: which is called Romana's sign, and that is a swelling
Speaker 1: of the eyelid, which appears on the side of the
Speaker 1: body that the infection entered from. Seems like he would
Speaker 1: have mentioned, Yeah, and if you look at pictures of
Speaker 1: people who are showing this sign, it's not as if
Speaker 1: their eyelid is just a little swollen. It's the eyelid
Speaker 1: swollen and drooping from the weight. It's very very obvious. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the chronic stage, or the second phase
Speaker 1: of this, which doesn't always appear. Not everybody it gets it.
Speaker 1: The symptoms of the chronic stage are heart damage and
Speaker 1: heart rhythm anomalies, and those tend to kill. There are
Speaker 1: also going to be digestive issues and massive weight loss.
Speaker 1: That's that's over a long period of time though, right,
Speaker 1: it's over a long period of time. Understand it as
Speaker 1: you get the initial information and then like twenty years later,
Speaker 1: then you die. That is correct. That is correct. And again,
Speaker 1: as with all of these papers, I found attractors saying
Speaker 1: this couldn't be what he was suffering. One of them
Speaker 1: specifically says that Darwin began showing signs of the chronic
Speaker 1: phase four years after these, after eighteen thirty five, so
Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty nine. Though I could never they never
Speaker 1: say specifically what it is. They're referencing that he was
Speaker 1: showing That told them that he was getting it so early.
Speaker 1: But I do agree that I don't think that this
Speaker 1: is what's going on, because if he had this parasite,
Speaker 1: it knocks about you know, if you live a long time,
Speaker 1: it will knock ten years off your life, and it
Speaker 1: causes major, major heart problems, and you suffer major heart
Speaker 1: problems for quite a while. I mean swelling of the
Speaker 1: heart that slows you down and really you're bed ridden,
Speaker 1: you can't do anything, which does to me, doesn't match
Speaker 1: up with what we know about Darwin, and he was
Speaker 1: out climbing rocks and hiking and doing things like that.
Speaker 1: If he had a heart condition, I don't see him
Speaker 1: doing that. You know. The thing is too is again,
Speaker 1: what I know about shock is that if he had it,
Speaker 1: he got it at such a young age, he would
Speaker 1: not have lived to be seventy three. If he actually
Speaker 1: had it exactly would have been twenty three, twenty four.
Speaker 1: He would have died in his forties, maybe his fifties.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't have lived forty sixty years with it, or
Speaker 1: forty or fifty years with So that's that's my problem
Speaker 1: with it. Um YEA believe it or not. Thank God,
Speaker 1: we don't have any more theories on that. I don't
Speaker 1: want to lift off any more symptoms. I think I
Speaker 1: have them all. Now I am ready to diagnose the patient. Okay,
Speaker 1: Dr Joe, but on your stethoscope and let's have it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go with Crone's disease for a hundred
Speaker 1: points um and I prescribed to aspirin. Good luck. How
Speaker 1: about you, doctor Dr Devon? I yeah, I think Crone's disease.
Speaker 1: I think the thing that I pushed the most for
Speaker 1: is that he definitely had anemia in my mind, he
Speaker 1: definitely had anemia what caused that, But I don't know
Speaker 1: Crone's disease, maybe celiac disease, maybe some just he was
Speaker 1: just iron deficient or be twelve bad diet possible, it happens,
Speaker 1: we're going to prescribe anything of a steak steak, think
Speaker 1: steak actually CREAMI of weight is great if you're iron deficient. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really has a huge levels of iron in it. Yeah. Oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I personally, I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: know that any of these are right. I think that
Speaker 1: it's kind of as I've done this before with most stories.
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of a combination. I think that
Speaker 1: Darwin probably did have some mild intestinal issue. I don't
Speaker 1: know necessarily that it was Crown's. But when you think
Speaker 1: about the way Darwin approached science and everything he did,
Speaker 1: I mean, he was very methodical in his observations and
Speaker 1: his writings. He really really focused and thought and spent
Speaker 1: a lot a lot of time observing it and just
Speaker 1: going over and over and over it. I can see
Speaker 1: him doing the same thing with his health. I can
Speaker 1: see him saying, wait, well, I made airs in the
Speaker 1: morning and at lunch but I didn't do it this afternoon,
Speaker 1: and then the next day. Oh, I made airs all
Speaker 1: three times. Something's wrong? What's going on? Like having to
Speaker 1: check it out to the point that he may have
Speaker 1: made it worse inadvertently by just focusing so much on it.
Speaker 1: I mean, to be honest, we all have things that
Speaker 1: happen to our intestines that we don't track because that's
Speaker 1: just your intestines. It's it's one of those things. And
Speaker 1: I thought, I thought to myself, you know, I should
Speaker 1: actually start keeping closer track of what eat so I
Speaker 1: can see which ones make me get their quote. I
Speaker 1: never get around to doing it. I've noticed a certain things,
Speaker 1: certain things I've definitely drawn the connection. But if I
Speaker 1: kept a careful list of everything that I ate and drank,
Speaker 1: then I would have a pretty good idea of everything.
Speaker 1: I think I would too, but because there are certain
Speaker 1: things I can't eat or drink. But I also think
Speaker 1: that I don't do that because then you can't help.
Speaker 1: But oh, well, suddenly something's going on, so what else
Speaker 1: is it? And then you're like a friend of mine
Speaker 1: who basically just eats rice it's on a rice diet
Speaker 1: and taking supplement pills and it's because of crones and
Speaker 1: he's on it's an elimination diet, cut it all out
Speaker 1: and start to add things in. But this poor guy
Speaker 1: still has such a small palette of what he can eat.
Speaker 1: So I, personally, I think that it's a combination. Ye
Speaker 1: says you can only have one disease something. No. I
Speaker 1: really wish that that was the case for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, the disease only. Uh yeah, So I think
Speaker 1: you're right out. That could have been he could have
Speaker 1: had half a dozen things. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1: close this one out. People are probably gonna want to
Speaker 1: know where to find some of the stuff that we've
Speaker 1: talked about, and that's going to be on our website,
Speaker 1: which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can find
Speaker 1: this episode, you can find some of the links to
Speaker 1: some of the real or some of the research. Some
Speaker 1: of the links to some of the research. Sounds really
Speaker 1: dumb now that I say there are going to be
Speaker 1: some links on the website to our research material. All
Speaker 1: other episodes are going to be there. We also have
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Speaker 1: story suggestions, or you have another theory, or you think
Speaker 1: you've got we got something wrong and you want us
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Speaker 1: think it is time for us to close this one
Speaker 1: out to lafel Is sick really, Bye guys, Bye guys,