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Speaker 1: From Mediators World News Headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is

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Speaker 1: Cal's weekend review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available

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Speaker 1: only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers

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Speaker 1: dot com. Now here's your host, Ryan cal callahan. Of

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Speaker 1: all laboratory animals are rodents. Over one hundred million lab

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Speaker 1: mice and rats are killed every year for science. According

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Speaker 1: to the Smithsonian Institute, Studies with rodents address everything from

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Speaker 1: neurology and psychology to drugs and disease. Researchers have implanted

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Speaker 1: electronics into mice brains to control their movements, repeatedly tested

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Speaker 1: the addictive properties of cocaine, and ministered electric shocks, implanted

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Speaker 1: human brains and mice skulls, and sent mice and rats

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Speaker 1: scurrying through endless labyrinths of tests. NASA even keeps lab

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Speaker 1: mice the International Space Station for experiments in micro gravity.

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Speaker 1: Some results from tests performed on mice have led to

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Speaker 1: incredible success in treating humans, some of not. But did

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Speaker 1: you know that the modern lab mouse is actually descended

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Speaker 1: from a very specific and very weird mouse species called

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Speaker 1: I kid you not the fancy mouse. Fancy mice were

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Speaker 1: first bread in England in the seventeenth century by crossing

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Speaker 1: Japanese specimens with common English house mice. This produced docile

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Speaker 1: individuals that could easily be kept as pets, and by

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Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds Britishers had started to breathe these

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Speaker 1: mice for different traits silky hair or curly hair, silver

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Speaker 1: coats or spotted coats, and on and on. In the

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Speaker 1: English National Mouse Club was founded, and the first mouse show,

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Speaker 1: like a dog show but for mice, was held that year. Incidentally,

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Speaker 1: these shows continue to this day. If you're interested, you

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Speaker 1: can join the American Fancy Rat and Mouse Association or

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Speaker 1: AFROMA and start showing mice against other breeders fancy that.

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Speaker 1: When the modern study of animal genetics got going in

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Speaker 1: the early twentieth century, scientists were looking around for an

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Speaker 1: organism to study other than the peas that Gregor Mendel

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Speaker 1: used to demonstrate heredity. The fancy mouse, a docile mammal

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Speaker 1: that people had bread through specific traits for decades, was

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Speaker 1: a natural choice. Fancy mice in the lab were then

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Speaker 1: systematically inbred to give them uniform genomes. That makes lab

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Speaker 1: mice easy to study, but it means they're about as

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Speaker 1: similar to a wild meadow jumping mouse as a house

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Speaker 1: cat is to a tiger. This week we've got the

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Speaker 1: wild meadow jumping mouse, stream access, archaeology, and animal cruelty.

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Speaker 1: But first I'm gonna tell about my week, and my

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Speaker 1: week was pretty wild. I fish for king salmon and

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Speaker 1: stripe around the Sacramento River in California. It was hot

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Speaker 1: about ten degrees, but the river temperature on the upper

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Speaker 1: sack is mitigated by pumping cold water from the bottom

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Speaker 1: of Shasta Dam. Where we fished. Upstream of Chico, California,

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Speaker 1: temps were just under fifty three degrees, whereas river tamps

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Speaker 1: about an hour downstream of Chico were a shade under

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Speaker 1: seventy degrees. As we've talked about here before, water in

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Speaker 1: California for farming, drinking, or fish, namely salmon is a

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Speaker 1: hot topic. You could say it's been on a political

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Speaker 1: warming trend for over a hundred years. Currently, lower Sacramento

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Speaker 1: water temps are high enough to not be hospitable to salmon.

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Speaker 1: When I was there, the folks fishing salmon and the

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Speaker 1: salt water we're beating them up pretty good. Additionally, the

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Speaker 1: overall flow of the Sacramento was reduced enough that the

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Speaker 1: city of Sacramento is fighting off salt water in order

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Speaker 1: to maintain its drinking water supply for its residents. High

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Speaker 1: fresh water flows are typically enough to keep the salt

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Speaker 1: water closer to the Bay area. We pulled plugs for

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Speaker 1: kings on a section of river that looked amazing, not

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Speaker 1: too many people, clear cold water that appeared to be

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Speaker 1: bank full, at least my untrained eye. There were fish

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Speaker 1: in the system, and we landed three, ultimately put two

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Speaker 1: in the box and released a third. We hooked one

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Speaker 1: striper up there. Incidentally, we were told that there should

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Speaker 1: not be striper up there. The next day we went

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Speaker 1: lower on the river through on our wet suits and

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Speaker 1: dove for striper. The water clarity wasn't bad, but not

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Speaker 1: as good as higher up in the system. The water

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Speaker 1: wasn't quite as cold either, but only by a couple

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Speaker 1: of degrees. And there was life everywhere. Tons of stripers, suckers, pike,

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Speaker 1: mental bass, sturgeon, these little perch looking fish, and even

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Speaker 1: some king salmon moving through. Bumping in the sturgeon underwater

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Speaker 1: is pretty exhilarating, pretty fun. It was truthfully, really amazing.

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Speaker 1: I put this trip together to get a closer look

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Speaker 1: at some of the interests regarding hunting and fishing on

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Speaker 1: the Sacramento if your call. I went duck hunting for

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Speaker 1: a few days in January with a good friend of

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Speaker 1: mine who is a rice farmer in the area. Now

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Speaker 1: I gotta look at the king and striper fisheries, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to share all of this with you on

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Speaker 1: a future episode of Cow in the Field the video

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Speaker 1: side of this podcast sometime soon. Remember, let me know

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Speaker 1: what's going on in your neck of the woods by

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Speaker 1: writing in to a s k C a L that's

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Speaker 1: asked Cal at the Meat Eater dot com. Maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: come check out what's happening in the world. Next up.

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Speaker 1: Archaeology update. Swan Point, Alaska, which is located on the

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Speaker 1: north end of the Alaska Range in the Tanana Valley,

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Speaker 1: has been a zone of interest in the archaeological community

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Speaker 1: since but as happens, a group doug a little deeper

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Speaker 1: and found stone tools and mammoth tusk tools dating back

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Speaker 1: to fourteen thousand, five hundred years ago. This discovery makes

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Speaker 1: Swan Point the earliest known site for people in Alaska. Previously,

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Speaker 1: the Dry Creek site held proof of early human activity

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Speaker 1: up to about eleven thousand, two hundred years ago. Aside

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Speaker 1: from that cash a of earliest or first on record brings,

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Speaker 1: there is a technological side to this discovery. A micro

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Speaker 1: blade stone tool was discovered at the Swan Point site,

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Speaker 1: which is very similar to those used and originating from

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Speaker 1: Siberia during that time period, meaning that this tech got

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Speaker 1: to Alaska somehow. The question is was it by the

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Speaker 1: land Bridge A. K. Baryngia. As we have covered, there

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Speaker 1: are two competing theories as to how humans arrived in

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Speaker 1: North America, the land bridge or ice bridge that connected

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Speaker 1: to what is now Alaska Asia, or did early North

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Speaker 1: Americans traveled by boat by way of a Kelp forest

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Speaker 1: highway between the two continents fourteen thousand years ago, a

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Speaker 1: hunter wanting a new hand tool but tired of that

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Speaker 1: same old design would have to bump into someone and

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Speaker 1: do some trading. There's only about two to four million

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Speaker 1: people on the planet at this point, and half the

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Speaker 1: planet is covered in a sheet of ice, but it

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Speaker 1: happened during the course of that trading. The hard goods

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Speaker 1: would not be the only thing exchange, but the knowledge

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Speaker 1: of how to reproduce them, like a stone tool sporting

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Speaker 1: a microblade. This process is also trackable not by bar code,

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Speaker 1: but by tool style. In this case microblade and material.

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Speaker 1: Certain rocks come from certain places. Over time, these origin

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Speaker 1: points have become identifiable. So far, micro blade tools have

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Speaker 1: not been discovered further south in North America, which has

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Speaker 1: led some to believe that this tech was carried by

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Speaker 1: people who walked on the land bridge from Siberia, which

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Speaker 1: is a simple way of putting it. Keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: the actual migration probably played out over ultiple generations of humans,

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Speaker 1: which were likely following food. It wasn't a scene like

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Speaker 1: somebody woke up one day in Siberia and said, you

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Speaker 1: know what this land mask that points east. Let's all

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Speaker 1: walk across and see where it goes. No, no, I

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Speaker 1: don't think I will. Moving on to the crazy ballot

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Speaker 1: initiative desk, and I do mean crazy generally speaking, animal

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Speaker 1: rights activists in the United States have been forced to

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Speaker 1: work around the edges. Band trapping here, band bear baiting there,

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Speaker 1: call it a day, but not. In Oregon, animal rights

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Speaker 1: groups are currently gathering signatures for a ballot initiative that

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Speaker 1: would immediately ban all hunting, fishing, and trapping from Portland

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Speaker 1: to Medford and everywhere in between. Remember when people were

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Speaker 1: content to be unambitious, sleep till eleven and just hang

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Speaker 1: out with their friends. I mean, you had new occupations whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: maybe working a couple of hours a week at a

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Speaker 1: coffee shop. Right that died out a long time ago

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Speaker 1: in Portland. Portland is a city where young people go

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Speaker 1: to retire. Oregon Initiative Petition thirteen, what I'll call i

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Speaker 1: P thirteen from here on out, would remove virtually all

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Speaker 1: legal protections for Oregonians who intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly cause

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Speaker 1: physical injury or death to an animal. You can imagine

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Speaker 1: that doesn't work with hunting. Under current law, people who hunt,

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Speaker 1: raise livestock, manage wild game, or engage in a variety

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Speaker 1: of lawful activities are protected, within reason, from Oregon's animal

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Speaker 1: abuse provisions. Under i P thirteen, those protections go away.

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Speaker 1: If you intentionally harm or kill an animal, you'll be

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Speaker 1: in trouble no matter what you're doing. And since accidentally

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Speaker 1: hunting and accidentally killing animals and accidentally eating them isn't

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Speaker 1: really a thing outdoors, people will be first on the

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Speaker 1: list of offenders. If i P thirteen secures the necessary

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Speaker 1: On twelve thousand, signatures and is somehow voted in. The

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Speaker 1: Only exceptions to this new band be those who kill

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Speaker 1: or injure an animal and self defense, and those who

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Speaker 1: engage in quote good veterinary practices. So unless the black

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Speaker 1: tailed deer you're stalking is about to bite your head off,

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Speaker 1: or you're hoping to give him his yearly flee and

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Speaker 1: tick medication, you won't be able to touch that dear

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Speaker 1: under I p. Thirteen. If you thought this couldn't get

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Speaker 1: any weirder, well you'd be wrong. I p. Thirteen would

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Speaker 1: also expose domestic livestock and horse breeders to animal sexual

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Speaker 1: assault charges. Anyone caught touching the sex organs of an

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Speaker 1: animal for the purpose of animal breeding would be subject

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Speaker 1: to a Class C felony under the proposed initiative. That's

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Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. I wish I was kidding. You can read

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Speaker 1: it for yourself at yes on I p thirteen dot org.

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Speaker 1: The ballot initiative is being promoted by an animal rights

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Speaker 1: group called Creatively Enough and the Animal Cruelty. They acknowledge

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Speaker 1: on their website that their proposal would significantly impact a

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Speaker 1: wider ray of industries, and they have a simple response.

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Speaker 1: I don't care. Okay, they don't exactly use those words,

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Speaker 1: but that's what they say. To those concerned that i P.

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Speaker 1: Thirteen would ban hunting and fishing, they point out that

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Speaker 1: quote the practice of seeking, pursuing, and in some cases

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Speaker 1: even capturing an animal would still be legally protected, which

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Speaker 1: is odd because in every other state currently, that's called

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Speaker 1: harassment of wildlife. To those who worry that banning hunting

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Speaker 1: and fishing would keep people from harvesting their own food,

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Speaker 1: they say that Oregon has ample food, along with resources

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Speaker 1: needed to distribute that food to every citizen. To those

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Speaker 1: who point out that i P. Thirteen would remove recreational

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Speaker 1: opportunities from nearly one million hunters and anglers in Oregon,

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Speaker 1: they say that the state has countless activities we can

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Speaker 1: engage in for recreation that do not involve taking the

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Speaker 1: life of an animal. And to those who wonder where

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Speaker 1: conservation funding will come from without hunting and fishing revenues,

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Speaker 1: they say they're a multitude of humane and creative methods

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Speaker 1: for conserving our environment. They don't say what those humane

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Speaker 1: and creative methods are, but they're very optimistic about their

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Speaker 1: odds of success. The conservation funding question is one of

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Speaker 1: the primary criticisms of this initiative. The Congressional Sportsman Foundation

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Speaker 1: points out that without the revenue from hunting and fishing

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Speaker 1: license sales, the budget of the Oregon Department of Fish

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Speaker 1: and Wildlife would be cut nearly in half. I P.

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Speaker 1: Thirteen would remove over fifty million dollars annually from the

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Speaker 1: state agency most responsible for conserving oregan's plants and animals. Now,

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Speaker 1: you might be thinking to yourself, there's no way this passes.

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Speaker 1: I can see where you're coming from because it's asinine,

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Speaker 1: but you should consider a few things before you write

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Speaker 1: off I P. Thirteen as a lost cause. I spoke

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Speaker 1: with Keiley Hopkins, the Pacific States assistant manager for the

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Speaker 1: Congressional Sportsman's Foundation. She told me that this initiative has

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Speaker 1: a shot at getting on the ballot simply because the

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Speaker 1: bar is so low and the animal Cruelty only needs

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Speaker 1: a hundred and twelve thousand signatures before July of next year.

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Speaker 1: If they focus on downtown Portland or Salem or Eugene,

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Speaker 1: Hopkins thinks they can reach that threshold and listen as

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Speaker 1: a blanket statement who doesn't want to end animal cruelty?

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Speaker 1: Animal rights groups in Oregon also have a long history

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Speaker 1: of advancing their agenda via ballot proposals. A measured to

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Speaker 1: band snare and leg hold traps made it on the

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Speaker 1: ballot in nineteen eighty a measure to band body gripping

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Speaker 1: traps into thousand in Oregonians voted to ban bated bear

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Speaker 1: hunting and cougar hunting with dogs after Measure eighteen made

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Speaker 1: it on the ballot. Of the one point two million

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Speaker 1: votes cast, the band was voted through by only forty

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Speaker 1: three thousand votes. No one knows what will happen if

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Speaker 1: i P thirteen makes it onto the ballot, but let's

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Speaker 1: not sit around to find out. Ballot measures can be

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Speaker 1: successful with some slick marketing and conveniently misrepresented information, so

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Speaker 1: it's important that hunters and anglers nip this one in

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Speaker 1: the bud. The most important thing you can do is

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Speaker 1: make sure your friends and family know why they shouldn't

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Speaker 1: sign their name to i P thirteen. Proponents of the

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Speaker 1: initiative will try to downplay its effect on hunters and anglers,

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Speaker 1: the livestock and equine communities, and conservation efforts. It's up

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Speaker 1: to us to make sure the general public knows the

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Speaker 1: true nature of i P. Thirteen and decides accordingly. There

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Speaker 1: are also organizations that could use your help spreading the word.

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Speaker 1: The Oregon Chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, Oregan Hunters Association,

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Speaker 1: and the Congressional Sportsman's Foundation are all working in Oregon

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Speaker 1: to help stop i P. Thirteen. If you have a

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Speaker 1: few bucks, throw it in the hat. I'm sure they'd

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Speaker 1: appreciate the support. Whether or not you have anything to contribute,

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Speaker 1: you can still post about i P. Thirteen on social media,

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Speaker 1: send an email to your hunting buddies, and get on

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Speaker 1: the phone with your old man. Everyone needs to know

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Speaker 1: why i P. Thirteen shouldn't make it on the ballot.

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Speaker 1: Now is the time to get involved. It will be

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Speaker 1: up to you to define what animal cruelty is. Don't

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Speaker 1: leave it as a blanket statement. Moving on, the New

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Speaker 1: Mexico Game Commission recently denied the application of five landowners

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Speaker 1: seeking to designate streams running through their property as quote

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Speaker 1: unquote non navigable. According to a two thousand fifteen state law,

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Speaker 1: the so called non navigable streams are closed to the public,

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Speaker 1: and so this denial is a win for access, at

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Speaker 1: least until the lawsuits started flying again. This issue will

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Speaker 1: be familiar to longtime listeners, but a quick refresher on

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Speaker 1: the timeline here In the New Mexico State Constitution was

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Speaker 1: ratified with the language and I quote, the unappropriated water

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Speaker 1: of every natural stream, perennial or torrential is hereby declared

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Speaker 1: to belong to the public and to be subject to

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Speaker 1: the appropriation for beneficial use. In the state Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: defined beneficial use to include fishing, waiting, and boating, as

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Speaker 1: they should. So far things seem pretty clear, right. But

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Speaker 1: then in two thousand fifteen, the New Mexico legislature passed

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Speaker 1: a law stating, and again I quote, no person engaged

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Speaker 1: in any recreational use shall walk or wade onto private

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Speaker 1: property through non navigable public water unless the private property

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Speaker 1: owner has expressly consented in writing. Under this law, five

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Speaker 1: landowners were able to designate streams through their property non navigable,

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Speaker 1: which allowed them to post no trustpassing signs, put up

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Speaker 1: fences through the waterways, some purportedly with razor wire, and

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Speaker 1: press criminal trustpass charges on people who access those waters.

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Speaker 1: You might be thinking, I can understand the landowner's beef here.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't want all kinds of people walking over my

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Speaker 1: private property just because in a roy that's dry eleven

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Speaker 1: months a year happens to run through it. The thing is,

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Speaker 1: the two thousand fifteen law gave no definition of navigability

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Speaker 1: and so did nothing to clarify the already complicated water

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Speaker 1: politics in the state that has the least surface water

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Speaker 1: of any in the nation. Further, the streams that have

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Speaker 1: been deemed non navigable up till now flow all year round,

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Speaker 1: and our navigable by raft or canoe. The reason many

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Speaker 1: of these landowners applied to close the streams in the

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Speaker 1: first place was to have the fishing waters there to themselves,

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Speaker 1: and no evidence of navigability was ever presented at those hearings.

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Speaker 1: The previous Game Commission simply approved the applications outright. When

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Speaker 1: those earlier rulings went into effect, we were worried about

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Speaker 1: access for New Mexicans, of course, but also about the president.

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Speaker 1: This would set another states. There are landowners all over

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Speaker 1: the country who do not like having people they don't

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Speaker 1: know on what they think of as their turf. So

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Speaker 1: it's great new was that the Game Commission rejected these

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Speaker 1: most recent applicants, But the forces attempting to privatize public

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Speaker 1: water are not done yet. The case is likely to

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Speaker 1: reach the New Mexico Supreme Court before too long. It

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Speaker 1: seems clear that the non navigable law is unconstitutional, but

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Speaker 1: private property groups have a lot of money, and so

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Speaker 1: it is entirely possible that the law won't be overturned

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Speaker 1: or that they will appeal the case to the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. If the bogus law stands, we will then

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Speaker 1: have to start the long work of electing state legislators

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Speaker 1: in New Mexico who will repeal it. On the heels

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Speaker 1: of this development New Mexico, a district court judge in

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Speaker 1: Utah just handed down a head scratcher of a ruling

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Speaker 1: on that state stream access. Unlike New Mexico, Utah has

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Speaker 1: no guarantee of stream access in its constitution, but state

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Speaker 1: ownership of waterways, customary use of stream beds by the

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Speaker 1: public dating back to before Utah statehood, and even two

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Speaker 1: thousand eight Supreme Court descity an upholding stream access seemed

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Speaker 1: to lock in those rights. But in two thousand and ten,

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Speaker 1: a law passed in the Utah legislature barring people from

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Speaker 1: touching the stream bed under a public waterway on private property.

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Speaker 1: Public access groups opposing that law argued in court that

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Speaker 1: pre existing state trustpass laws don't prevent people from touching

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Speaker 1: the ground underneath the water, so waiting and other uses

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Speaker 1: were legal. This recent ruling creates a kind of no

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Speaker 1: man's land by agreeing that it's not trespassing to touch

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Speaker 1: the stream bed. But quote, the absence of civil or

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Speaker 1: criminal liability for this public use does not mean that

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Speaker 1: the use also gave rise to a public easement. Translation,

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Speaker 1: they can't put you in jail for waiting up the stream,

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Speaker 1: but you don't have a right to be there either.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that will clear everything right up and lead

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Speaker 1: to no further disputes. What do you think These laws

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Speaker 1: restricting access in New Mexico and Utah are just further

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Speaker 1: examples of why we need to be involved in government,

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Speaker 1: no matter the administration. When the next law limiting stream

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Speaker 1: access comes up in the next state, we need to

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Speaker 1: be there to defeat it rather than going through the

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Speaker 1: rigamarole of having it struck down in court or repealed.

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Speaker 1: Every state writes its own laws as to what constitutes

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Speaker 1: stream access and trespass. Here in Montana, we are in

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Speaker 1: a very low water year, and we have a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks out on the ever expanding gravel bars of

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Speaker 1: Montana rivers. But did you know that Montana stream access

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Speaker 1: law provides only for water based recreation. The law is

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Speaker 1: often summed up as below the high water mark, which

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Speaker 1: is technically true. But technically that high water mark access

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00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: is there for fishing, boating, swimming, and water oriented activities.

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Speaker 1: So if you're like me and like to pull up

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Speaker 1: to a fishing access site purely to walk, that is

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Speaker 1: not technically provided for. But that was standing, we still

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Speaker 1: have a heck of a lot better access than the

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Speaker 1: poor state of Utah. Right now, moving on, the U

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Speaker 1: S Forest Service is being sued for not protecting the

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Speaker 1: habitat of the endangered meadow jumping mouse from the cattle

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Speaker 1: grazing in New Mexico's Sacramento Mountains. The soup by the

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Speaker 1: Maricopa Auto Bound Society and the Center for Biological Diversity

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Speaker 1: claims that despite the eight point four million dollars that

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Speaker 1: the Forest Service spent on fencing along the Agua Chiquita

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Speaker 1: Creek and elsewhere, cattle were still able to eat and

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Speaker 1: trample the high grasses. The high grasses that form the

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Speaker 1: habitat of the meadow jumping mouse. The party's filing the

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Speaker 1: suit clearly want the Forest Service to revoke grazing permits

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Speaker 1: in the area, and that issue is only liable to

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Speaker 1: get more contentious as the record breaking drought continues to

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Speaker 1: punish the West. Here in Montana, for example, conservationists and

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Speaker 1: ranchers are squaring off after the state recently opened additional

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Speaker 1: wildlife management areas to emergency livestock haying and grazing. The

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Speaker 1: conservationist point to the definition of a wildlife management area

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Speaker 1: as a place where wildlife and wildlife habitat conservation is

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Speaker 1: the priority. Ranchers might respond, Our land feeds wildlife all year.

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Speaker 1: Why shouldn't we get some help in tough times. This

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Speaker 1: battle is going to rage on as droughts kind of

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Speaker 1: look like they're becoming a problem. But back to the

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Speaker 1: meadow jumping mouse. I don't know how exactly to balance

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Speaker 1: the needs of ranchers with the needs of an endangered species,

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Speaker 1: but I do know that the jumping mouse is truly

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Speaker 1: amazing and deserves its place. With a body length around

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Speaker 1: three inches, a healthy individual can jump just over three feet.

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Speaker 1: The human world record holder for long jump Mike Powell

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Speaker 1: hit a distance of twenty nine ft four and a

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Speaker 1: quarter inches, and he stands six ft two inches tall.

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Speaker 1: If Powell we're able to jump proportionately as far as

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Speaker 1: a metal fee old mouse, he would have gone over

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Speaker 1: sixty two ft. Harris is on the horizon now. To

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Speaker 1: get back to my college days, which consisted of getting

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Speaker 1: severely beaten in PlayStation football by a guy who is

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Speaker 1: now a county attorney here in Montana. We need to

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Speaker 1: prevent defense situation on this type of stuff. We can't

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Speaker 1: wait to address the needs of species, even tiny ones

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Speaker 1: with big hops, until we are in crisis mode. Keeping

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Speaker 1: these animals off the endangered species list, like far off,

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Speaker 1: is what will ultimately keep the grass tall and the

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Speaker 1: cattle fat. That's all I've got for you this week.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Remember, if you're in

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Speaker 1: the mood and have the need for clean, quiet, electric

385
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 1: chainsaw just in time for hunting season, check out steal

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00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: Dealers dot com and find a knowledgeable, awesome steel dealer

387
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: near you. They'll get you squared away on what you need.

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00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: I like to keep mind underneath the back seat of

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00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: the truck doesn't stink and it's ready whenever I need it,

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00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: And remember let me know how I'm doing or let

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00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: me know what's going on in your neck the woods

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00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: by writing in to a s k C. A L

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Speaker 1: that's asked Cal at the meat eater dot com. Thanks again,

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Speaker 1: I'll talk to you next week. Yeah,