Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: We have a very interesting show for you today, Chris
Speaker 1: Harrison here alongside Lauren Zema here at the home office
Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. Follow me here for a second. There's
Speaker 1: something that happened today that was emotional and a bit
Speaker 1: triggering for me, and it had to do with golf,
Speaker 1: and so yes, technically this episode is about the PGA
Speaker 1: Golf Tour and a rival league called Live. Now. I
Speaker 1: know what you're thinking. Don't push stop yet, Dear God, Chris,
Speaker 1: do not do an entire podcast about sports, much less golf.
Speaker 1: I won't. I'm not going to do that. And to
Speaker 1: keep me honest and to keep me on track, here
Speaker 1: is Lauren Zema. And I think we can all agree.
Speaker 1: If there's someone who can keep me on track and
Speaker 1: away from just sports, it's Elsie.
Speaker 2: Wow, thanks for giving me that power. Baby.
Speaker 3: Well, look when you said to me, I want to
Speaker 3: talk about this today because it was quote very triggering
Speaker 3: for you and you said it made you emotional. And
Speaker 3: this whole news headline of the Live Golf Tour merging
Speaker 3: with the PGA, and for US sports layman's out there.
Speaker 3: My understanding is basically, this is shocking. No one saw
Speaker 3: this coming, The players didn't know, people deeply involved were
Speaker 3: completely blindsided by this. And so as you're kind of
Speaker 3: telling me about this, the first thing Chris came to
Speaker 3: me and said was, this is making me see my
Speaker 3: own situation with the Bachelor in some new ways. It's
Speaker 3: giving me some new takeaways and making me reflect on
Speaker 3: it differently. And that is what struck me, because you know,
Speaker 3: you're not gonna get me with the golf stuff.
Speaker 1: It's a microcosm of what's going on in the world
Speaker 1: right now, and it really did make me look at
Speaker 1: my own situation with fresh eyes and realize things that
Speaker 1: I had never realized before, which was amazing considering I
Speaker 1: have thought in depth about my situation and over again.
Speaker 2: Consumed us for you know, a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: I will I will bore you for like a very
Speaker 1: short time just to give you the five thousand foot
Speaker 1: level of this whole thing, just so you can understand,
Speaker 1: because I know there's a lot of LZ's out there
Speaker 1: that are like, what are you talking about? So for
Speaker 1: forever and ever, the biggest pros in the world played
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour. Tiger Woods, Jack Nicholas, Arnold, Palmer,
Speaker 1: you name it. They played on the PGA Tour. That's
Speaker 1: where they made their living. They had a monopoly, they
Speaker 1: owned it well. About a year ago there was a
Speaker 1: Saudi based league called Live and this was funded by
Speaker 1: this Saudi fund out of Saudi Arabia, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, the PGA Tour had competition in this Live
Speaker 1: Golf Tour, which was a competing tour against the PGA.
Speaker 1: Went after the big name players, offered them hundreds of
Speaker 1: millions of dollars and they got a big star like
Speaker 1: Phil Micholson, Brooks, Koepka, Dustin Johnson. These are big names
Speaker 1: in the golf world. And now all of a sudden
Speaker 1: there was competition and serious competition in the world golf
Speaker 1: where there hadn't been any. And this is a billion
Speaker 1: dollar industry, a bill multi billion dollars, where money, endorsements, companies,
Speaker 1: commercial television rights, all of this is on the line.
Speaker 1: So why do I bring this up Because when this
Speaker 1: happened about a year ago, the PGA Tour quickly went
Speaker 1: on defense because they had a monopoly. They didn't want competition.
Speaker 3: Understandable and to clarify the idea, was if you were
Speaker 3: going to go play on the Live Golf Tour, you
Speaker 3: could no longer play on the PGA. Right, Like, the
Speaker 3: players were forced to make a decision and Live was
Speaker 3: luring them with lots of money and opportunity.
Speaker 1: Well that's what happened the PGA Tour. Upon losing, some
Speaker 1: of these players quickly said, there is a line in
Speaker 1: the sand you choose. You choose this Live Golf Tour
Speaker 1: or you choose the PGA.
Speaker 2: Period an ultimatum.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which probably broke a lot of anti trust rules
Speaker 1: and some monopoly rules, and that's part of the lawsuits
Speaker 1: and the things that I'll get into in a little bit.
Speaker 1: But these guys had to choose, and they did and
Speaker 1: they chose to go with Live. So the PGA, clearly
Speaker 1: feeling the pressure, had to click it up a notch.
Speaker 1: And this is where things get interesting, and this is
Speaker 1: where everything changed for me. And this is why I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you today, because what the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour did was they had to create animosity. They had
Speaker 1: to create a fight. It's not enough to say, hey,
Speaker 1: it's no fair that you want to play in our sandbox.
Speaker 1: Now we've had a monopoly and you want to take
Speaker 1: some of our money. That argument doesn't hold weight. So
Speaker 1: what they did is they went to the players, the employees,
Speaker 1: and they weaponized them. They gave them talking points, they
Speaker 1: fed them information that made the other side seem evil.
Speaker 1: This Saudi League, they kept calling it the Saudi League,
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure you knew it was coming out
Speaker 1: of Saudi Arabia, that these evildoers are now buying these players.
Speaker 1: We are just and if you stick with us, we
Speaker 1: are loyal. You're a team member, you're part of this
Speaker 1: family at the PGA Tour. We got your back. Well,
Speaker 1: j Monahan, let's call him the creator of this show.
Speaker 1: Let's call him the executive.
Speaker 2: Is he of Live ORGAPGA Tour?
Speaker 1: Is the boss at the PGA Tour? Well, he's not
Speaker 1: the most loved, as most CEOs aren't, so he couldn't
Speaker 1: be the face of this. So what he did he
Speaker 1: found the freshest, most lovable face he could, a golfer
Speaker 1: named Rory McElroy. Let's call him the host of the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: A lot of analogies happening here.
Speaker 1: So they go to Rory, who's a great golfer and
Speaker 1: so loved. He's Irish, he has a cute little accent.
Speaker 1: He's very forthright and honest and transparent. They go to Rory,
Speaker 1: they make him the spokesperson. Rory, you get out there,
Speaker 1: you get out front and center, in front of the cameras,
Speaker 1: You recite all of our talking points. You fight the
Speaker 1: good fight. We are on the just side of this.
Speaker 1: We're on the right side of history. We're going to
Speaker 1: make it right. And remember we're a team. Buddy. We
Speaker 1: love you. You're our brother, We got your back. We
Speaker 1: will never screw you over Rory. You're our hope, our golfer.
Speaker 1: So that's how Rory went out, and Rory did so
Speaker 1: thinking and again I don't put this on Rory. He's
Speaker 1: thinking he's doing the virtuous thing. He thinks he's being loyal.
Speaker 1: He thinks he's doing the lord's work here by toting
Speaker 1: the company line. And it cost him dearly. He started
Speaker 1: drawing a line in the sand, started arguments and fights
Speaker 1: with players that he was friends with just weeks before.
Speaker 1: The stress of this has deteriorated his game. He's not
Speaker 1: the same player he was. Everybody will agree he's been
Speaker 1: a bit of a mess because of this. He took
Speaker 1: so much heat. He took all the pressure. Meanwhile, the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour and Jay Monahan got to sit in the
Speaker 1: shadows and just watch see how this goes well. It
Speaker 1: wasn't going well enough, so the PGA Tour turned up
Speaker 1: the heat. They then weaponized the media. Does this sound familiar?
Speaker 1: Pretty interesting? There was an interview about a year ago
Speaker 1: that Jim nance did with j Monahan on a PGA
Speaker 1: tour broadcast on CBS, major network. Again, CBS, they have
Speaker 1: millions in play here, hundreds of millions at play. Jim
Speaker 1: Nantz has been a loyal subject and a member of
Speaker 1: you know, the PGA, and he's you know, announces all
Speaker 1: of it and does He's great. By the way. I
Speaker 1: love Jim Nantz. I respect him. I know Jim Nantz.
Speaker 1: I've talked to him on a number of occasions. He
Speaker 1: is a legend in broadcasting. But he did this interview
Speaker 1: with Jay Monahan and he clearly read talking points that
Speaker 1: were given to him. He took a stance. And now
Speaker 1: this is where I have an issue with Jim and
Speaker 1: I did back then as a journalist. Let's just say
Speaker 1: it was really poor journalism. It was pretty gross. He
Speaker 1: wasn't asking questions of Jay Monahan, the commissioner who should
Speaker 1: have had all these answers. He started making these declarative statements,
Speaker 1: very strong statements about live golf and the people that
Speaker 1: run it. Talked about sports washing, a phrase that really
Speaker 1: became popular and used back in the Olympics when Nazi
Speaker 1: Germany was hosting the Olympics. They talked about sportswa washing,
Speaker 1: about using sports to kind of show how your society
Speaker 1: is great and how everything's okay, and please don't look
Speaker 1: over here, look how wonderful the Olympics are. That was
Speaker 1: the Nazi regime and sports washing back in the Olympics.
Speaker 1: They start using that term in regards to this live
Speaker 1: golf tour. But it's Jim Nance saying this. Someone we love,
Speaker 1: someone we respect, someone we've watched our entire childhood. Now
Speaker 1: it's Jim Nantz saying this, So it carries a lot
Speaker 1: more weight than Jay Monahan saying it. It was some
Speaker 1: of the worst journalism I've witnessed outside of Michael Strahan
Speaker 1: and how he handled my interview. It was very reminiscent
Speaker 1: that interview, watching Jim Nansen and the links he went
Speaker 1: to bringing up nine to eleven, bringing up the nine
Speaker 1: to eleven families, that this was all on these golfers' hands. Basically,
Speaker 1: these golfers that went to live have blood on their hands.
Speaker 1: This was jim Nantz making these statements. And then Jay
Speaker 1: Monahan added on to it, really sad journalism by jim Nantz.
Speaker 1: It really disappointed me greatly. And again I give him grace,
Speaker 1: and I still love jim Nantz. I respect him that
Speaker 1: one moment in time. I guess he thought he was
Speaker 1: on the right side of history. He thought he was
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. He thought he was defending people
Speaker 1: who were going to be there for him. But that
Speaker 1: wasn't enough. There is a thing called the Golf Channel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. That thing that's usually on in the background
Speaker 1: of your house and your husband just disappears for hours
Speaker 1: on end. That's the Golf Channel.
Speaker 4: There is.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, first of all, this is
Speaker 3: a lot of drama, a lot of interesting relationships, and
Speaker 3: for anybody who's not a golf fan, but maybe your
Speaker 3: partner is, you are going to walk in with some
Speaker 3: things to say tonight.
Speaker 2: Okay, so go on the Golf Channel.
Speaker 1: So the Golf Channel jumps in. They're partly owned by
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour and kind of exist with the grace
Speaker 1: of the PGA Tour and they're owned by NBC. For
Speaker 1: the entire year, they have i'd say ninety nine point
Speaker 1: nine percent been against Live Golf. They have read the
Speaker 1: talking points the PGA Tour wanted to give them. They
Speaker 1: have promoted PGA. They're all PGA because that's that's where
Speaker 1: their money lies. Well, these announcers, these sportscasters, and again
Speaker 1: a lot of them I know and a lot of
Speaker 1: my respect have said really rough things about Live Golf
Speaker 1: and the people that went to Lift Golf. It has
Speaker 1: been one hundred percent one sided, no objectivity, no real journalism.
Speaker 1: When it came to the other side of this story,
Speaker 1: instead of just posing questions and posing points, they made points,
Speaker 1: they gave opinions. Again, golf fans are watching this. These
Speaker 1: people at Golf Channel again probably thought the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: was on their side, probably thought NBC was on their side.
Speaker 1: We're going to be loyal, We're going to be team players.
Speaker 1: They got our back, They'll never screw us over. We're
Speaker 1: on the right side of history. Well, everything changed. As
Speaker 1: I used to like to say on the show, everything
Speaker 1: is about to change. Jay Monahan again, we'll call him
Speaker 1: the creator, the CEO, president of PGA Tour. When he
Speaker 1: made this strong statement when Live Golf started. Remember he
Speaker 1: went in the room and said, guys, we are a
Speaker 1: band of brothers. We make decisions together, we live or
Speaker 1: die together. This is all about transparency. It's all about
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. Have you ever been ashamed of
Speaker 1: playing on the PGA Tour. No, these Live guys can
Speaker 1: be ashamed. Don't worry. This is all about family. When
Speaker 1: I woke up this morning on Twitter, I found out
Speaker 1: at the same time Rory McElroy did, the same time
Speaker 1: Tiger Woods did, the same time every employee, Slash Golfer
Speaker 1: found out. We all found out on Twitter that Jay
Speaker 1: Moonahan and the PGA Tour have merged with Live Golf.
Speaker 3: So now that you set that up, it's like they
Speaker 3: were saying for a year, this thing is evil, This
Speaker 3: thing is toxic, This thing is going to tear us apart.
Speaker 1: These people are tied to nine to eleven, These people
Speaker 1: are sports wise, These are evil, evil human beings, and
Speaker 1: you are a part of it. Dustin Johnson, Patrick Reid, Bubba,
Speaker 1: you guys are a part of this. That was the
Speaker 1: stance for the last twelve.
Speaker 4: Months, and now they've partnered with this screp Not only
Speaker 4: did they do a ONET eighty, it was one hundred
Speaker 4: percent behind everybody's back, one hundred percent in the dark.
Speaker 1: There was zero transparency, There was zero debate, not one golfer.
Speaker 1: All the golfers are going on Twitter right now going
Speaker 1: what the hell aren't these the people we swore we
Speaker 1: would never do business with?
Speaker 2: As Rory spoken, I have not heard.
Speaker 1: Rory's statement yet. I do not know if anybody might
Speaker 1: be in the bottle, the bottom of the bottle of
Speaker 1: boerman or Irish whiskey talk about someone who got screwed
Speaker 1: over in this more than anybody, Rory and I love
Speaker 1: Rory McElroy. He is a good guy. I mean one
Speaker 1: hundred percent across the board. Everybody loves Rory, which is
Speaker 1: why he was the perfect mark to push out there
Speaker 1: to be the voice of what the PGA Tour wanted
Speaker 1: him to be. Again, let's just call him the host.
Speaker 1: Very interesting that they have left him on an island.
Speaker 1: The damage is done. He's lost friends, he's lost fans,
Speaker 1: his game is deteriorated. Now he'll be back. He's not
Speaker 1: going to be in the poorhouse. But what they did
Speaker 1: to him was unconscionable. How they have stabbed him in
Speaker 1: the back, pulled the carpet out from under all of
Speaker 1: these guys because all of these guys were offered big
Speaker 1: money Rory Colin Morikawa, I'm just naming some other big
Speaker 1: golfers where they were offered hundreds of millions of dollars
Speaker 1: to go to live. But they thought they were told
Speaker 1: they were doing the right thing by saying no, and
Speaker 1: if you stick with us, we'll take care of you.
Speaker 1: They woke up this morning and realized all they did
Speaker 1: was piss away hundreds of millions of dollars because the
Speaker 1: PGA tour in J. Monahan singularly decided that the best
Speaker 1: interest of all of them was to join forces with
Speaker 1: Live an LZ. You and I love journalism. I turned
Speaker 1: on Golf Channel. First of all, the announcement was made
Speaker 1: on CNBC, very telling as well. The guy on CNBC,
Speaker 1: he may like golf, but he doesn't know it. He
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to dive into this story. So it
Speaker 1: was a very very soft landing spot for J. Monahan
Speaker 1: and the Saudi group, who by the way, won in
Speaker 1: this big time to come and announce this merger. So,
Speaker 1: after this announcement and Jay Monahan completely contradicts hypocritically everything
Speaker 1: he has said and stood for for the last year,
Speaker 1: we go to Golf Channel. When I tell you the
Speaker 1: analysts were like deer caught in the headlights, it's an understatement.
Speaker 1: I felt partly, I felt justified, but I felt sad.
Speaker 1: These people now don't have talking points. They now have
Speaker 1: to think for themselves. They now have to navigate these
Speaker 1: unchartered waters because the safety net was ripped out from
Speaker 1: under them.
Speaker 3: Well, and they're probably thinking about what they said over
Speaker 3: the past year, and now how are they worried about
Speaker 3: contradicting points they made before?
Speaker 2: Things they said before.
Speaker 1: They were they were mumbling, they were stumbling. People that
Speaker 1: I really respect in this business had nothing to say.
Speaker 1: They literally were wide eyed. Go back and watch it.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating TV. These guys were all just kind of
Speaker 1: mumbling and stumbling and asking questions. And flash forward several hours.
Speaker 1: This just happened today. I usually don't like to date
Speaker 1: these things, but it's Tuesday. It's one thirty in the
Speaker 1: afternoon Central time when I'm taping this, So they've had
Speaker 1: several hours to count to try and gather their thoughts. Now,
Speaker 1: these quote unquote journalists are asking questions, poignant questions, lobbing
Speaker 1: out questions like maybe this is the best thing for golf.
Speaker 1: Maybe the entire geo political existence of the United States,
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, the Middle East shouldn't have been on the
Speaker 1: shoulders of Dustin Johnson. Maybe the President of the United States,
Speaker 1: Maybe some of these other political leaders could handle this.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not on the golfers to figure this out. Now,
Speaker 1: they're still right and wrong here, and that needs to
Speaker 1: be settled, and that needs to be talked about. By
Speaker 1: the way, there needs to be questions about Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 1: about China, which the PGA tour is massively in bed with.
Speaker 1: So when you get into this human rights thing, you
Speaker 1: can't just pick and choose. You can't cherry pick only
Speaker 1: because you were worried that this was going to cost
Speaker 1: your organization hundreds of millions of dollars. The same Saudi
Speaker 1: fund they own, maybe it's not the majority, but they
Speaker 1: are massive shareholders in UBER. Nobody's not used UBER.
Speaker 2: First of all, you know, you said we love journalism.
Speaker 2: I used to love journalism.
Speaker 3: I was just talking to somebody about this the other day,
Speaker 3: and we've discussed it a little bit before. It's hard
Speaker 3: when you are educated in something and you grow up
Speaker 3: dreaming of being something, and then by the time it's
Speaker 3: your time to have that as your career, it's changed
Speaker 3: so much. I mean, I was growing up reading People magazine,
Speaker 3: and then when I was in high school and college,
Speaker 3: the Internet very rapidly changed everything. Then when I graduated
Speaker 3: after studying journalism, video on the internet very much change everything.
Speaker 3: Then social media gave it another change. In the fifteen
Speaker 3: years I've been doing this, the industry has changed so much,
Speaker 3: so fast, and I don't know that I love it anymore.
Speaker 2: It's not what I grew up loving.
Speaker 3: And a huge part of that is because I questioned
Speaker 3: so much about it ethically, Like in this case, I mean,
Speaker 3: these quote unquote journalists, I mean they are journalists, but
Speaker 3: they're in a tough spot. Their boss is telling them
Speaker 3: what to say, their boss owns. You know, there's so
Speaker 3: much money at stake here, and I know you know
Speaker 3: that feeling not just from journalism, but from hosting reality
Speaker 3: TV also.
Speaker 1: Well, and look at you know, you look at Jim Nantz,
Speaker 1: who again, I really respect. I've looked up to him
Speaker 1: as a broadcaster. He made a really bad decision in
Speaker 1: that interview, and he took a bad stance. Now he
Speaker 1: was getting But I understand because that even jim Nantz
Speaker 1: was getting a lot of pressure. Clearly he had been
Speaker 1: giving given things to say and read. Does jim Nantz
Speaker 1: walk away and quit his job? Does Brandal Shambilie on
Speaker 1: Golf Channel? Does rich Lerner on Golf Channel? These people
Speaker 1: that didn't speak up, that didn't ask the right questions,
Speaker 1: that didn't correctly approach this objectively. When NBCPGA, there's so
Speaker 1: much at stake and you're feeling so much pressure, and
Speaker 1: again you feel like you're being a team player, you're
Speaker 1: being loyal, you feel like you're doing the right thing.
Speaker 3: Well, plus people will say, oh, you should take a
Speaker 3: stance at work and you should be like, be the
Speaker 3: voice and speak up. It's not that easy to walk
Speaker 3: away from your job, even if you've made a lot
Speaker 3: of money and you're talking about walking away from the
Speaker 3: career you've built. About thinking to yourself, if I do this,
Speaker 3: will I ever work again?
Speaker 1: Because you're also going to be blackballed in the rest
Speaker 1: of the community.
Speaker 3: Exactly so it's really not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 3: And you know, I do think one thing that's hard
Speaker 3: is like you're working for a company, but publicly you
Speaker 3: have to privately represent that company and on some level
Speaker 3: do what you're.
Speaker 2: Told, but publicly you're yourself.
Speaker 3: Like you, I know, everybody is a boss they have
Speaker 3: to answer to, but when you are, you know, in media,
Speaker 3: you have to publicly say things to the world as
Speaker 3: you and with your name on it, but behind the
Speaker 3: scenes you're told what to do to a certain extent.
Speaker 1: And I felt like that. I mean, for twenty years
Speaker 1: on The Bachelor, I spoke for the Bachelor, but it
Speaker 1: was me. And sometimes you're having to deliver a message
Speaker 1: that it's not that you're not okay with it, but
Speaker 1: maybe that's not what you would say if it was
Speaker 1: just up to you. And I'll go a step further
Speaker 1: a layer of this that again I found very interesting
Speaker 1: and I was yelling at the TV. There was this
Speaker 1: documentary that I was so excited about called Full Swing.
Speaker 1: If you on Netflix, if you watch Drive to Survive,
Speaker 1: there's a few of these kind of sports docs that
Speaker 1: came out brilliantly done by the way Drive to Survive,
Speaker 1: I mean, the people that do it are incredible at
Speaker 1: what they do. They decided to do one of these
Speaker 1: for golf called Full Swing, and they happened to be
Speaker 1: filming the year that this happened last year, so I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. These documentarians captured everything that was happening
Speaker 1: when the PG two are fractured in live and guys
Speaker 1: were leaving and there were fights and arguments and things
Speaker 1: we know about. I watched this quote unquote documentary and
Speaker 1: it was one hundred percent like watching a PGA Tour
Speaker 1: media film, a promotional film put on by the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: They made every PGA Tour guy seem like the greatest
Speaker 1: human being in the world. I mean, Captain America. Put
Speaker 1: an American flag on this person, give him some apple pie.
Speaker 1: He's going to sing, God Bless America. Then they would
Speaker 1: cover the live guys Ian Poulter throwing a tantrum in
Speaker 1: the locker room, throwing his clubs. He's on edge Brooks Koepka.
Speaker 1: He's mentally unstable, he's losing it. Literally, they change the music.
Speaker 1: They would change the music to this like grab the money,
Speaker 1: get your bag, like that kind of stuff. Then there
Speaker 1: would be this soft glorifying, you know, beautiful lens that
Speaker 1: they would paint the PGA tour. That's how this Full
Speaker 1: Swing turned out to be. It was a PGA pr stunt.
Speaker 1: And today again this journalist Chad mum who was a
Speaker 1: big part of this Full Swing, he tweets out, you
Speaker 1: better believe we were filming when this broke. Yeah, where
Speaker 1: were you when it broke a year ago? Bud? Where
Speaker 1: was Full Swing? You didn't show they never in that
Speaker 1: Full Swing. They didn't show you one thing that you
Speaker 1: didn't already know happened. There wasn't one insight.
Speaker 2: Well, who funds that exactly?
Speaker 1: It's not who funds it, who gives the access. You're
Speaker 1: not going to get access to a PGA locker room,
Speaker 1: You're not going to get access to the PGA events
Speaker 1: if they don't have editing approval of you're gonna make
Speaker 1: us look good? And man, did they put a cherry
Speaker 1: on top of the PGA tour and took a ginormous
Speaker 1: dump on live. I mean it was I mean literally,
Speaker 1: they changed the.
Speaker 2: Music so much drama it's funny.
Speaker 3: I will say I'm not very golf aware, but in
Speaker 3: that past year there have been a couple times when
Speaker 3: I've turned to you and said, like, wait, I just
Speaker 3: saw his headline of what like Phil Mickelson said about.
Speaker 2: Like I for the first time.
Speaker 3: Was aware of golf news because these golfers were getting
Speaker 3: very heated and debated, and like it was very It
Speaker 3: was maybe the most dramatic year for golf ever.
Speaker 1: It has easily been the most dramatic year. And the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour tried to quickly pull some things back because
Speaker 1: their league clearly had problems with it, and so they
Speaker 1: started to change, like perse structure and give them more
Speaker 1: money and give all these crazy deals and restructure. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't enough. And the problem is, here's the very
Speaker 1: interesting thing of why you're wondering, how how did this
Speaker 1: all happen? What was the tipping point? In my opinion,
Speaker 1: what happened was the guys that went to live started
Speaker 1: winning because they were still able to play on some
Speaker 1: of the major championship. They were able to play on
Speaker 1: a couple of tournaments, and one of them, Brooks Koepka,
Speaker 1: just won a major championship. He just won the PGA Championship.
Speaker 1: That screws the PGA Tour because now you don't have
Speaker 1: the best players in the world, not all of them.
Speaker 1: You can't say the best players play here, the best players.
Speaker 2: But I thought they weren't all. You wasn't allowed to
Speaker 2: play in the PGA.
Speaker 1: Well, there was a loophole where these guys were allowed
Speaker 1: to play in about four or five certain tournaments a year,
Speaker 1: called the Majors. So they came over when they could,
Speaker 1: and they were dominating. They played really well. So now
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Rory is losing and Brooks kept
Speaker 1: his winning. This doesn't look so good. So again, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, we wake up today shell shocked. Nobody
Speaker 1: and this is crazy and this Day and Age Golf Channel, nobody,
Speaker 1: New York Times, nobody had this story. Nobody had a
Speaker 1: sniff that this was coming down the pipe.
Speaker 2: Was that triggering for you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know what was triggering was just the having
Speaker 1: the rug and the safety net completely pulled out from
Speaker 1: under you, hearing one day I love you, your family, Hey brother,
Speaker 1: we got you. Don't worry, just go say this, just
Speaker 1: go do this. Rory, be the good guy. You know,
Speaker 1: trust us, we got you, man. And then you wake
Speaker 1: up today and you find out on Twitter that all
Speaker 1: of that was complete and utter bullshit. One hundred percent bullshit,
Speaker 1: and Rory is now left to go answer for his
Speaker 1: own words and his own deeds, and they're what the
Speaker 1: PGA tours. Jme onhand is going to back them up.
Speaker 2: So what was that moment for you?
Speaker 1: The moment everything? There was a moment there. There was
Speaker 1: a tipping point when that moment happened for me. I
Speaker 1: can't get into the details of it, but there was
Speaker 1: one night when that moment happened for me when I
Speaker 1: had to say, in my own life, as my own man,
Speaker 1: with you by my side, enough is enough. Enough is enough.
Speaker 1: And I am a big believer. And you got to
Speaker 1: pick that hill you want to die on. I picked
Speaker 1: hill and I had to make a stand. I hope
Speaker 1: the best for Rory, these journalists, it's going to be interesting.
Speaker 1: Some of these people will lose their jobs. Some of
Speaker 1: these people will maybe not quote unquote be fired. They
Speaker 1: may just disappear into the ether and just all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you don't hear from them again. And you
Speaker 1: have someone who's different on the air. So will jim
Speaker 1: Nantz disappear? He's such a big star. I doubt it.
Speaker 2: Why do you think people are going to get fired
Speaker 2: over this?
Speaker 1: Well, because now these guys are coming back, the narrative
Speaker 1: has to change, and if you were a part, I
Speaker 1: mean strongly. So there's a guy, Brandal Shambily who's on
Speaker 1: Golf Channel and now he's not very well liked. I
Speaker 1: happen to be with eight legendary golfers yesterday at a
Speaker 1: golf event, which is fascinating because we were talking about
Speaker 1: live golf just yesterday with these legendary golfers. These are
Speaker 1: Champions Tour, Senior Tour guys, and first of all, they
Speaker 1: were a little confused on the rules and how everything
Speaker 1: went too which I found fascinating. These guys are entrenched
Speaker 1: in this and they didn't even understand at all. None
Speaker 1: of them mentioned that this might happen today, but they
Speaker 1: were confused by it. But they all talked about this
Speaker 1: one guy, Brandal Shambalie, and how arrogant he is in
Speaker 1: his opinions. He has been unbelievably outspoken about liftg golf.
Speaker 1: This might ruin him, He might be done. He's actually
Speaker 1: going to speak tonight, so I can't. I don't know
Speaker 1: what his words are going to be. Maybe he apologizes,
Speaker 1: maybe he backs off. He's a really bright guy. So
Speaker 1: his technique and his style is usually to double down.
Speaker 1: Maybe he doubles down, but if he goes against doubling down,
Speaker 1: now means he goes against the PGA tour, the hand
Speaker 1: that's feeding him. So if he goes against j Monahan,
Speaker 1: the hand that feeds him and says now you're dirty.
Speaker 1: Now you're just as bad as these other guys, he's
Speaker 1: not going to be on that channel. So what do
Speaker 1: you do. He's left. He's on an island.
Speaker 3: So you said that this made you look at your
Speaker 3: own situation in new ways? What changed in your mind today?
Speaker 1: It just made me sad, and it made me think
Speaker 1: of the things that were said to me, promise is
Speaker 1: made and things that I went through. When a line
Speaker 1: in the sand is drawn, whether it's me drawing it
Speaker 1: or whoever. And part of that was me drawing that
Speaker 1: line in the sand. There were friends, and you know this,
Speaker 1: There were dear friends that I had, some for almost
Speaker 1: twenty years, most all over a decade that worked on
Speaker 1: the show. But when that line in the sand was drawn,
Speaker 1: so were friendships and people I thought would be with me,
Speaker 1: stand beside me, stand in front of me, come with me.
Speaker 1: You're left with that a net. You realize you're alone
Speaker 1: on this island, like Rory McElroy is finding out today.
Speaker 1: You're all alone, Bud. Now it's you, and now everything
Speaker 1: you said is on you. Whether it was the PGA
Speaker 1: two or pushing this, it's on you. And so now
Speaker 1: Rory has to personally go unwind all of these very
Speaker 1: sticky situations. And he will because he has a foundation
Speaker 1: of being a well respected, honest man. He's a good man,
Speaker 1: So he'll recover. He'll be fine. Brandal shambilely, I doubt
Speaker 1: he will, and there will there will be others that
Speaker 1: will fall because of this.
Speaker 3: Well, you said that today gave you a big takeaway
Speaker 3: as you were thinking about your own situation and how
Speaker 3: this brought up memories for you.
Speaker 2: What was the takeaway?
Speaker 1: Well, the reason I wanted to do this today is
Speaker 1: again not to just talk golf in sports. I think
Speaker 1: this is so much bigger than that. I think we
Speaker 1: can all relate to what's happening right now in this
Speaker 1: golf situation, to our own lives, and to what you
Speaker 1: see happening in our own business world. It made me think,
Speaker 1: you know, we have morality clauses. A lot of us
Speaker 1: have morality clauses at work. Most times, when you join
Speaker 1: entertainment and you're doing a movie or a TV show,
Speaker 1: there's a morality clause. And that's so if you do
Speaker 1: something toward it and whatever that they don't love, it's bad.
Speaker 1: Pr That means they can get rid of you because
Speaker 1: of your morality. I almost think in this day and age,
Speaker 1: we need the reverse. You need to have a morality
Speaker 1: clause with the people you work for.
Speaker 2: You need to be ensure that they will do right by.
Speaker 1: You, that they will carry your name, and that what
Speaker 1: they are doing and what they stand for, what they
Speaker 1: say they stand for, A they will continue to if
Speaker 1: you believe in it, or B. They can't sell you
Speaker 1: out and sell you down the river because what they
Speaker 1: decide is best. And it made me think, how many times,
Speaker 1: no matter what business you're in, a school teacher, computer software,
Speaker 1: real estate, you name it, how many times have you
Speaker 1: been to a convention or a work meeting and you
Speaker 1: go in and the boss is trying to rally the troup,
Speaker 1: say hey, we're a team. As you go, we all
Speaker 1: go loyalty, put the company first, You take care of us,
Speaker 1: and we'll take care of you. Just be careful, I
Speaker 1: guess is my point of b Leary is this, and
Speaker 1: your best interest isn't. And now, look, we all work
Speaker 1: for people. You're an employee, you are going to do things,
Speaker 1: and we're trying to make money for a company and
Speaker 1: hopefully in turn you'll make money too. But in this
Speaker 1: day and age, I think that the tables have and
Speaker 1: probably should be turned a little bit and maybe get
Speaker 1: a morality clause for the people you work for.
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting about that is I do.
Speaker 3: Think we live in this time where companies are called
Speaker 3: out on social media like to take stands on things right,
Speaker 3: And I actually struggle with that a little bit because
Speaker 3: I don't need every brand or every company to like
Speaker 3: weigh in on every social issue, you know. I think
Speaker 3: there's a little bit too much of that actually, But
Speaker 3: I mean, at the same time, you want, I think
Speaker 3: you want to be in alignment with the company you
Speaker 3: work for.
Speaker 2: For sure. It's one thing.
Speaker 3: I don't need a company to be like publicly weighing
Speaker 3: in on every single issue that's out there politically or socially.
Speaker 3: But I do think if you work for someone, you
Speaker 3: want to be in alignment with them and their values
Speaker 3: as a company. So what I would advise anybody is like,
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, you want to be protected on your
Speaker 3: end because the company is not just like you could
Speaker 3: quit tomorrow, that company can fire you tomorrow. It goes
Speaker 3: both ways, and they wouldn't hesitate to And I think
Speaker 3: we all put a lot of personal we put a
Speaker 3: lot of ourselves into our jobs. And so you're like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: I don't want to leave them in the lurch or whatever,
Speaker 3: Well they would leave you in the lurch. And gosh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean I feel for Rory thinking about how he
Speaker 3: put himself on the line and his name on the
Speaker 3: line through all this and became that sort of spokesperson
Speaker 3: for them.
Speaker 1: And I guess that's the main thing too. You you
Speaker 1: ask what to take away, it's when speaking on something,
Speaker 1: it's be careful when someone says, hey, you know, go
Speaker 1: speak on this, Go speak on this, and got put
Speaker 1: your face forward, because as you very astutely said, and
Speaker 1: you brought this up, you know, several weeks ago, you
Speaker 1: and I were talking about am I saying this for me?
Speaker 1: Or am I representing someone else and I'm using someone
Speaker 1: else's words? And do I believe in all this? And
Speaker 1: do they coincide. Are you know, are we together on this?
Speaker 1: And that to me is the interesting thing. And if
Speaker 1: you feel like, oh, this will never change, they would
Speaker 1: never screw me over. Well, ask Rory McElroy. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, if you had asked everybody, and I
Speaker 1: mean everybody in the world of golf yesterday, could this
Speaker 1: possibly happen? The answer would be an emphatic hell no,
Speaker 1: zero points zero percent chance that Jay Monahan will ever
Speaker 1: do business. He would never ever do business. Flash forward
Speaker 1: to this morning and all these people are on an
Speaker 1: island left and alert.
Speaker 2: So what was it? Money? It's always about follow the money.
Speaker 1: Anything you ever see, just follow the money. And now
Speaker 1: that they started a can join kind of for profit
Speaker 1: business together. And there are billions and billions of dollars
Speaker 1: at stake here.
Speaker 3: And I mean I would tell anybody gets stuff in
Speaker 3: writing to get it in writing. I mean, in your situation,
Speaker 3: there are things I wish we'd gotten in writing. There
Speaker 3: are things that I know you were told by people
Speaker 3: you'd known for decades.
Speaker 2: Asked to do.
Speaker 3: And you want to trust well, you were lied to
Speaker 3: over and over again on the phone and conversation. And
Speaker 3: I wish if we'd gotten some of the promises that
Speaker 3: were made in writing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's hard because when you've known somebody a long time,
Speaker 3: of course you think they're your friend to a certain extent.
Speaker 2: But people's jobs, their livelihoods are going to come.
Speaker 3: First, and you know they have to think about their
Speaker 3: own families and then their own careers.
Speaker 1: And I get that, and I look forward to running
Speaker 1: into Jim Nantz again and having this conversation with him.
Speaker 1: I would love to have this discussion, just as by
Speaker 1: the way I will with Michael Strahan. If and when
Speaker 1: our pass cross again.
Speaker 2: What will you say to Michael Strahan.
Speaker 1: I have questions about his journalistic integrity. I have questions
Speaker 1: about the approach he took twenty four hours after we
Speaker 1: did the interview, the way it was put together, the
Speaker 1: thing he said live on air after the interview, when
Speaker 1: nobody was there to rebut it, and nobody was there
Speaker 1: to put a counterpoint on it. I have questions. I
Speaker 1: would just like to look them in the eye and say,
Speaker 1: what were you thinking or what were you told? And again,
Speaker 1: I have all the grace in the world for both
Speaker 1: of these guys. I just I want to see I
Speaker 1: want to see what they would say, someday you and
Speaker 1: I will sit down, we will have that conversation. That'll
Speaker 1: be a full episode of journalistically ethically everything that went down.
Speaker 1: But thank you for obliging me today and listening to this.
Speaker 1: It was such an emotional morning watching all of this unfold,
Speaker 1: watching the coverage, watching I mean, I haven't seen, you know,
Speaker 1: people moonwalk like that since Michael Jackson was in concert.
Speaker 1: I mean, holy cow, watching these poor journalists moonwalk across
Speaker 1: everything they had said for the last year and try
Speaker 1: and save a situation. It is fascinating. It'll continue to unfold.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to bore you with sports and golf
Speaker 1: and all that, and that's why I had Lz here.
Speaker 1: And thank god she's here to keep me somewhat on
Speaker 1: the straight and arrow. I know I went a little
Speaker 1: golfy for a minute, but I was trying to give
Speaker 1: a little perspective on all this. But thank you, thanks
Speaker 1: for listening, Thanks for being with me always. I do
Speaker 1: like shows like this where we can get real and
Speaker 1: we can dive into what's happening in the world and
Speaker 1: how does it apply to us and how do we
Speaker 1: make it better? And I hope we've done that today.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you next time because
Speaker 1: we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever,
Speaker 1: and make sure to write us a review and leave
Speaker 1: us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.