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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stefan

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Speaker 1: Never Told You Protection of iHeartRadio. And for today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we're doing an update on online dating. I will say

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Speaker 1: we're focusing on some specific areas because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: going on in the world of online dating right now,

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Speaker 1: So we might come back and look into some other things,

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Speaker 1: but for this one content warning of mentions of sexual

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Speaker 1: assault and harassment. Nothing too in depth, but we are

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Speaker 1: going to talk about it a little bit. You can

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Speaker 1: check out our episodes that we've done in the past

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Speaker 1: on online dating and modern dating in general. We've even

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Speaker 1: done some specific to the pandemic, so you can look

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Speaker 1: back on those. So kind of the impetus for this

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Speaker 1: one was I'd seen a lot of headlines and I'd

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Speaker 1: heard some from you, Samantha that there were these like

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Speaker 1: rumblings and rumors of these companies are kind of manipulating

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Speaker 1: you into paying money to use them to get the

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Speaker 1: good dates. And I'll ask you more about that later,

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Speaker 1: but so I was kind of like thinking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: the whole money doesn't buy love, but I mean, does

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Speaker 1: it can? It can't apparently, So for a really quick

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Speaker 1: overview and again see our past episodes we've done on

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Speaker 1: this for more information. But match dot com got started

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five, j Date in nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 1: e Harmony in two thousand and Tender in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: and in two thousand and nine Okay, keep it released

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Speaker 1: its a list feature, which is sort of more what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about here, these tiered features, because paying to

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Speaker 1: date or to find a date isn't new. I even

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Speaker 1: tried to go on a rabbit hole about speed dating,

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Speaker 1: which we have talked about before. Then how much that.

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Speaker 2: I think my partner would be mad at me?

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Speaker 1: I was just curious. I wanted to know how much

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Speaker 1: it costs personal ads too, something like that. But in

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Speaker 1: our time of online dating, something really big is happening

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Speaker 1: when it comes to price. And we have talked about

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Speaker 1: the gamification of online dating, how the swiping, the constant refreshing,

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Speaker 1: the notifications can really feel like a game that you

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Speaker 1: want to keep playing. Maybe you want to go to

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Speaker 1: the next level. These companies know that and they want

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Speaker 1: to capitalize on that, and that next level is only

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Speaker 1: available at a price. There are psychology studies behind this. Basically,

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Speaker 1: they get you hooked with the free version, and then

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Speaker 1: you want to keep going, and you're willing to pay

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Speaker 1: more because you can't go any further, especially for smaller

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Speaker 1: areas I read where it's like, you know, the pools

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Speaker 1: a bit smaller, you have to pay the money to

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Speaker 1: keep going.

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Speaker 3: Sure, According to a recent study by Pew Research Center,

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Speaker 3: thirty five percent of Americans I've paid to use a

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Speaker 3: dating app at one point, spinning about nineteen dollars on average.

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Speaker 3: And according to numbers published in the twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: Financial Times article, consumers spent over five billion globally last

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Speaker 3: year on dating apps, and lately it's really accelerated.

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Speaker 2: But we're going to step back a bit.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, So when tender released tender Gold in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: which is one of three tiers that it had at

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Speaker 1: the time, it beat out Candy Crush for Apple's top app.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just thinking that, I'm like, don't feel

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Speaker 3: bad about the amount of money I've spent on my

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Speaker 3: phone games right now with this number, this is.

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Speaker 1: All for you, Samantha, and I thank you. Make you

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Speaker 1: feel better. And before you ask, tender Gold is not

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Speaker 1: their newest iteration into a paid service. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about that more in a second. Here's a quote

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Speaker 1: from Box about it and app makers claim it's worth it.

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Speaker 1: In June, Coffee meets Bagel co founder du Wun Khan

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Speaker 1: told Vice that men who pay the thirty five dollars

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Speaker 1: per month with the upgraded version have quote a forty

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Speaker 1: three percent higher number of connections mutual likes than non payers,

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Speaker 1: and that conversation links increased by twelve percent. According to

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Speaker 1: the author of this article, The reasons for opting to

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Speaker 1: pay really varied, but a lot of people cited that

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Speaker 1: they wanted to see who had liked them without any

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Speaker 1: commitment of liking them back. Some reported swiping right on

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Speaker 1: folks they previously wouldn't have after seeing that they liked

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Speaker 1: them first liked. Basically, it was nice to know someone

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Speaker 1: was interested first, and that's not an option that you

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Speaker 1: have unless you pay for. Most of these others reported

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Speaker 1: what sounds to me like a self esteem issue, and

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Speaker 1: I say this is someone with low self esteem, okay,

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Speaker 1: but essentially feeling like their pictures were bad or the

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Speaker 1: app was broken because they weren't getting any matches, so

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Speaker 1: they liked to pay for the option to see, like,

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Speaker 1: am I getting any matches. Yes, so yeah, paying for

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Speaker 1: that premium search us allowed them to basically make themselves

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Speaker 1: feel better or at least it, you know, maybe ease

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Speaker 1: their anxiety around it. Maybe maybe they got there. I

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Speaker 1: have said it was a comfort, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Even if they would never have matched with

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Speaker 1: the person, they can at least see and feel validated

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Speaker 1: by people finding them attractive. Others are in the camp

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Speaker 1: that you'll know people who are paying are more serious

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Speaker 1: about finding a long term partner if they can afford

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Speaker 1: it access it. That's a whole other conversation. Uh, though

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Speaker 1: others say, depending on the app, the opposite may be

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Speaker 1: true that it but it may still help filter out people.

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Speaker 1: I think there's some more filtering options on some of them.

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Speaker 1: But still others say, and here's a quote from that

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Speaker 1: Vox article from someone going by winter, I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of men who swipe right on everyone they find

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Speaker 1: even mildly attractive and filter later. It's especially frustrating on

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Speaker 1: bumble because then I don't feel I should put a

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Speaker 1: lot of effort into my initial message because the match

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Speaker 1: doesn't guarantee response. I would also say, I think if

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Speaker 1: you paid money into doing something there's more impetus for

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Speaker 1: you to feel like I have to make this worth

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Speaker 1: it right because I'm paying the money to do it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, there was a whole thing. And the

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Speaker 3: thing is, I don't know if this camp still is around,

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Speaker 3: but like a chunk of us would not use sites

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Speaker 3: that were paid site, so does e harmony because it

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Speaker 3: was their people. They're trying to get married, like they've

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Speaker 3: been divorced or widowed and have kids and need to

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Speaker 3: get married now, which there's nothing wrong with if you've

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Speaker 3: been widowed or have children, none of that, but when

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Speaker 3: you were younger, like for me, I was in my

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Speaker 3: early mid twenties trying to figure out this dating thing

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Speaker 3: in the first place and never gone on dates to

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Speaker 3: see that. And then my sister who was one of

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Speaker 3: those divorced people with children and was completely or romantic,

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Speaker 3: like all she wanted to be was to be married

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Speaker 3: and like have a perfect family, which is fine, but

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Speaker 3: that's what those are the only sites that she got

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Speaker 3: on because she was that serious. So to me, I

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Speaker 3: was like, yeah, nah, uh uh, So if you had

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Speaker 3: a paid site that was a deterrent, I'm not paying

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Speaker 3: for that because I'm not that serious.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, there's definitely a lot of and I'm saying

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Speaker 1: this is someone who's literally never used to dating site,

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Speaker 1: but I am given to understand there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of different vibes.

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Speaker 3: Person, there's vibes' vibes two different things, and coffee meats bagel,

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Speaker 3: which I was kind of mentioning earlier, was one of

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Speaker 3: the first to do to when I was around to

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Speaker 3: do the paid version. Because of the paid version, I

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Speaker 3: think they still this. They were the reason I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I was right and told you about this type of

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Speaker 3: phenomenon is that they would hold and give you three

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Speaker 3: matches in a day, and then if you didn't match

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Speaker 3: with anyone or for me, they started repeating because there

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Speaker 3: was such a small lism, like that's odd. I've only

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Speaker 3: been through like thirty people. Maybe that's a lot. I

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Speaker 3: don't know, but like you couldn't get a new list

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Speaker 3: unless you decided to do the premium version, right, and

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Speaker 3: that was like seven eight years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and we are going to talk about it because

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Speaker 1: it has gotten exacerbated, as we said, for a couple

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Speaker 1: of reasons. So some people have said that even if

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Speaker 1: that part was nice of like, I don't know, seeing

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Speaker 1: that you were, people were liking you that maybe, like

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Speaker 1: you didn't even need to get more matches or go

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Speaker 1: on more dates like that part was nice. Some data

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Speaker 1: dispus this, though, from CNBC Coffee Meats Bagel says it

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Speaker 1: paid users to get sixty percent more dates than its

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Speaker 1: non subscribers says it's paid users get sixty percent more

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Speaker 1: dates than it's non subscribers. Pew research has found that

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Speaker 1: people who met their partner on app are more likely

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Speaker 1: to have paid for the service.

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Speaker 3: Right again, if you limit your amount of people that

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Speaker 3: you're hooking, like matching them up with that also would

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Speaker 3: be why then numbersscue?

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Speaker 1: It definitely would be always stick these numbers with a

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Speaker 1: grain of salt. Where are they coming from? A Guardian

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Speaker 1: article detailing tender golds release reported that people were getting

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Speaker 1: av ties different prices based on things like age. There

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Speaker 1: was later a lawsuit about this, and Tender agreed to

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Speaker 1: stop basing pricing on age, but only in California. So

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Speaker 1: something to look up for.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know that. That's rude. That's the rude. Rude.

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Speaker 1: I believe though it's more expensive for younger people. I

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Speaker 1: could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure, they were like, please,

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Speaker 1: younger people.

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Speaker 2: Come on, that's interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I could be totally wrong. Maybe I've got it, maybe

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Speaker 1: I've got it all mixed up. But I know that

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Speaker 1: they more younger people were using it, so I think

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Speaker 1: they were trying to get more younger people to pay

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Speaker 1: for it. That's more right, got you?

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Speaker 2: That makes sense?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay. So some of these paid services do let

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Speaker 1: you do other things like expand your radius, which people like.

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Speaker 1: Others like the privacy features. The more on that later.

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Speaker 1: Here's the quick breakdown of some of the tears some

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Speaker 1: apps offer. So for Bumble, you've got Bumble Boost and

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Speaker 1: Bumble Premium, Grinder you've got extra and unlimited, Hinge plus

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Speaker 1: and X got her Gold and Premium Coffee meets Bagel Premium,

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Speaker 1: e Harmony premium okay, keep it basic, and premium of noe.

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Speaker 1: These services aren't available everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I just because e Harmony is already a paid service.

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Speaker 3: They were always paid service.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're paying more to get more.

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Speaker 3: Because e Harmony is one of those that you can

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Speaker 3: match up with people, but you can't talk to them

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Speaker 3: unless you have the premio service.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, I think a lot of them have

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Speaker 1: introduced a couple of other extra payment down Yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about some recent numbers, because yes, some are

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Speaker 1: saying that the days of free online dating apps are

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Speaker 1: over and or reconvably changed as companies behind them try

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Speaker 1: to find ways to make money, especially since there has

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Speaker 1: been a bit of a slowdown in them recently, with

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Speaker 1: many citing limited dating pools as the cause.

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Speaker 3: You know how many times we've go out in public

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm matched for him.

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Speaker 1: I've been with you when this has occurred.

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Speaker 3: I know, happen so many times. Actually, I met for

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Speaker 3: several people in our workspace.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this.

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Speaker 1: Is one of the reasons I didn't get on one one.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really want to date, but I was like,

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Speaker 1: I can't handless, it's like somebody.

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Speaker 3: Else it is interesting, And then you're like, these people

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Speaker 3: look really familiar.

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Speaker 2: Oh anyway, So.

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Speaker 3: From CNBC, they say the League's VIP membership costs nine

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Speaker 3: hundred and ninety nine dollars a week or two thy

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Speaker 3: four hundred and ninety nine dollars a month.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot.

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Speaker 3: The VIP membership allows users to match with prospects in

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Speaker 3: multiple cities, seeing you singles first and use a concierge

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Speaker 3: service that it says will help you quote win at

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Speaker 3: this dating game. Oh, that doesn't sound predatory at all.

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Speaker 3: Oh it also goes on. In September twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 3: Tender rolled out a four hundred and ninety nine dollars

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Speaker 3: monthly subscription to some of its most active users. And

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Speaker 3: I'm monthly subscription to Hinge. It would cost six hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars for the year.

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Speaker 2: No, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you want to just like calculate this

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Speaker 1: up in your head, that's thousands of dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: And I also want to say, like I read a

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Speaker 1: lot for this episode, and I've made this point before.

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Speaker 1: I have friends who are kind of in the sane

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Speaker 1: boat as your sister, maybe not like quite the same,

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Speaker 1: but really want to find that person, like really want

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Speaker 1: to find the person, and online dating is such a

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Speaker 1: big part of that. And so I get it, but

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Speaker 1: this is like a lot of people can't afford this,

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Speaker 1: And if that's going to be your like raising of

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Speaker 1: the tear just to get new matches, the whole thing

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Speaker 1: is shifting. The whole thing is shifting. So here's another

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Speaker 1: quote from that article. On the dating app Coffee Meats

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Speaker 1: Bagel users who pay thirty four dollars ninety nine cents

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Speaker 1: a month can send virtual flower bouquets, while Tender let

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Speaker 1: certain subscribers swipe on people in different cities. Grinder users

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Speaker 1: can see an unlimited number of profiles if they pay

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Speaker 1: thirty nine ninety nine dollars a month, compared with the

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Speaker 1: ninety nine profiles available to its free users. And then

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Speaker 1: I found this interesting chart that was showing like who's

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Speaker 1: paying for the dating apps, and actually it's largely older

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Speaker 1: people in upper income bracket, which makes sense, much more

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Speaker 1: men than women, much more.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, looks like people who have more expendable incomes obviously, right.

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Speaker 1: But with all of this, and we've talked about this before,

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Speaker 1: you can see our episode we did on romance scams,

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Speaker 1: there is a lot of duplicity that's happening, as you've said,

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Speaker 1: as you've been saying, some have alleged companies are essentially

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Speaker 1: rigging the system so that you have to upgrade.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so from mother Jones, they say. In twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 3: Americans reported losing a whopping one point three billion dollars

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Speaker 3: to romance scams. According to the Federal Trade Commission, and

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Speaker 3: dating apps and websites were a frequent source. Between twenty

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Speaker 3: thirteen and mid twenty eighteen, as many as twenty five

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Speaker 3: to thirty percent of match dot com members who registered

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Speaker 3: each day we're using match dot com to perpetuate scams

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Speaker 3: they have to see alleged in twenty nineteen against Match Group.

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Speaker 3: They were found not guilty because a piece of legislation

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Speaker 3: that comes up a lot in these conversations, Section two thirty,

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Speaker 3: which basically says companies aren't necessarily responsible for what happens

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Speaker 3: on their platforms, although people have gotten murdered, which there's

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Speaker 3: a case in the Mexico not too long ago.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and that's a fun segue that you've given me,

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Speaker 1: because I was gonna say fun, very sarcastically, because just

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Speaker 1: to note we maybe we should have bridget to talk

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Speaker 1: about this, come on and talk about it. But this

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Speaker 1: is one of those things that has come up in

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Speaker 1: so many tech conversations we've had, and it asks the

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Speaker 1: pluses and minuses. It sounds like it really needs updating

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Speaker 1: as tech has evolved and become more complicated. It's from

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Speaker 1: the nineties that it's also been used to police things

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Speaker 1: like sex work and so things like that. Oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a nuanced conversation speaking of fun segues. You did

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Speaker 1: keep bringing something up, Samantha that I had no idea

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Speaker 1: what you were talking about. This isn't necessarily duplicity, but

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Speaker 1: I was just curious about it, right, what we're.

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Speaker 3: Talking about, Well, it is like there's things that are

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Speaker 3: concerning in the because it could be a scammed on

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Speaker 3: a different level, but.

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Speaker 2: Because it kind of has goes in hands, hand in hand.

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Speaker 3: And when we're talking about spade dating, which is like

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Speaker 3: in live in person events and meeteups, but also when

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Speaker 3: I was talking going into this, I brought up tons

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Speaker 3: of things about matchmakers. And apparently since recently, I want

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Speaker 3: to say, twenty twenty two, there's been a revamping of

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Speaker 3: these types of systems and types of organizations that have decided, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're going to grow now, and they have, they've grown.

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Speaker 3: People are coming back to trying this tactic because online

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Speaker 3: dating has become so over the top, tiresome boring, how

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Speaker 3: everyone do it or if they're charging and for me

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Speaker 3: sometimes like as a very least, let me have a

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Speaker 3: personal hand, like someone catering to me versus the you know,

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Speaker 3: coffee meat bagel making fun of me with the same

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Speaker 3: ten people that are not working out whatever. So coming

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Speaker 3: back to girl talk, everything comes back to I haven't

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Speaker 3: seen If you haven't heard her Monday many about this,

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Speaker 3: you should go because it was a thing.

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Speaker 2: It was a think.

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Speaker 3: But like when I I think I had told this

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Speaker 3: story before, but when I was just in my like

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Speaker 3: career era meeting I just graduated in college and decided

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Speaker 3: that it's time at twenty three twenty four to have

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Speaker 3: my own apartment. I did get a dog, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, you know what, I'm gonna get my dating

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Speaker 3: life together. I've never really dated, and this was pre

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Speaker 3: online dating, or still when online dating was really seen

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Speaker 3: as dangerous, kind of like we were coming on the

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Speaker 3: cusp of it. It's still kind of like a whole

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Speaker 3: like taboo thing to say that you met someone online.

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Speaker 2: It just sounded, you know, it was that time.

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Speaker 3: So it's completely different today and we love it. But

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Speaker 3: I decided to check out what I've been hearing over

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Speaker 3: the radio, which is a program called Events and Adventures,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's not nationwide. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: it's international, but nationwide essentially as a service.

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Speaker 2: That they will give.

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Speaker 3: You get a group of people, the singles, like minded

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Speaker 3: singles as they like to say, together for different events.

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Speaker 3: It could be kayaking, it could be casino trips, it

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Speaker 3: could be I'm sure now like wine tasting and all

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Speaker 3: of that, and you just pay. I think I saw

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Speaker 3: because apparently they got into a big class action lawsuit,

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Speaker 3: y'all around four hundred dollars a month or maybe no,

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Speaker 3: it couldn't be that much. I think it was two

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Speaker 3: ninety nine a month, and you pay for that. But

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Speaker 3: then if you have activities, you sign up for that

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Speaker 3: and pay for that as well. So whatever the activity is,

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Speaker 3: rock climbing, going to see a circus, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm just making things up at this.

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Speaker 3: Point, but that exists, and that was going to find

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Speaker 3: you you a perfect match. And the whole system was

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Speaker 3: me literally walking into an office that was based in Marietta, Georgia,

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Speaker 3: and I'm being very very very specific here, and you

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Speaker 3: sat down and told them what you were looking for

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Speaker 3: and what you wanted and they were like, yeah, we

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Speaker 3: definitely got you and this is going to be amazing,

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Speaker 3: and here's this pricing and you can do and I'm

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Speaker 3: sure there's tiered pricing today as well, because you could

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Speaker 3: increase the amount of activities that you want to do,

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Speaker 3: the type of people that you want to meet, all

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Speaker 3: of that. But that type of event was what was

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Speaker 3: in my head. It was like, do they still exist today?

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Speaker 3: And yes they do. Again in twenty twenty, they got

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Speaker 3: into a class action lawsuit because I guess people did

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Speaker 3: not find the forever people's No, that's I haven't looked

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Speaker 3: too deeply into that lawsuit, but that's what I am

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Speaker 3: imagining is happening.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine I didn't find my wa troop love

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Speaker 1: here for everything you have?

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Speaker 3: Or it may have been as easy as like you

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Speaker 3: kept making me pay money and then maybe pay fifty

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Speaker 3: bucks to go bowling.

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Speaker 2: Why who knows?

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Speaker 1: Probably?

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Speaker 3: But then I did, Yeah, I dig did dig into

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Speaker 3: the fact that there are personal matchmakers still exists. There

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Speaker 3: was a very popular and I loved it, millionaire Matchmaker,

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Speaker 3: and it was this woman with like jet black hair,

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Speaker 3: fingernails done to the tea, like like matching rich people

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Speaker 3: together and like it was a whole thing. I loved that,

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Speaker 3: by the way, because it was so dramatic and over

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Speaker 3: the top. Rich people are something, but like they those

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Speaker 3: kind of matchmakers do actually exist. They may not be

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Speaker 3: reality shows, but they do charge from anywhere from like

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Speaker 3: one thousand dollars a month to ten thousand dollars a month,

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Speaker 3: this according to the level you want. Ago that Cosmo

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Speaker 3: did a whole article with a woman who had this experience,

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Speaker 3: and she was talking about what she was looking for

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Speaker 3: and that she felt like her dates were better quality

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Speaker 3: I would hope, so yeah, because she also paid ten

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars. Actually she's paid this is based out of England,

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Speaker 3: ten thousand pounds, So like she took put in a

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Speaker 3: lot of money, but she thus far, according to this

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Speaker 3: article that she is interviewed in, has not met anybody.

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Speaker 3: So even though the results were better and it looked

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Speaker 3: like she went on maybe a total of four dates,

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Speaker 3: so you know, there's stuff like that as well.

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Speaker 2: As there was a whole.

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Speaker 3: Article in the New York Times as well about the

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Speaker 3: different level of services and different types of services that

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Speaker 3: people went on. One service was a fifteen thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: for twelve matches in one year. I guess it's guaranteed

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Speaker 3: twelve matches in one year, to twenty five hundred dollars

395
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Speaker 3: for six months with no guaranteed number of dates, so

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Speaker 3: it was kind of flexible, and then you had things

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Speaker 3: I think they like two hundred and fifty dollars for

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Speaker 3: three dates, so that's that would be a little more affordable.

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Speaker 3: But they're starting to grow. These types of matchmakers are

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00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 3: starting to grow because people, as I have seen on

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00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 3: another article, talked about online dating fatigue.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is and it gets very tire.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and we're gonna talk about that more later.

404
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: But it's interesting to me kind of similarly what we

405
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Speaker 1: just talked about with Joey in our episode on TikTok

406
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: and what's happening there. I feel like there's everybody was

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00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 1: like online dating and then it wasn't really working. And

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Speaker 1: then you're like, well, what if I pay money? If

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00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 1: I throw money at this problem, maybe to work. And

410
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Speaker 1: then I go, what if I go to a person

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Speaker 1: and maybe that will work? And I do think there

412
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Speaker 1: is as I said, there are different types of people.

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Speaker 1: There are some people that will be like, you didn't

414
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: find me any matches, I will sue you. I think

415
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 1: there's other types of people that feel almost embarrassed or

416
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 1: or just are hopeful, maybe either way, but they paid

417
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: the money so they're like, something's gonna come of this,

418
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: but it does. And I'm not saying like all of

419
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 1: these things are that, but it does remind me every

420
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Speaker 1: only at scams where they're like, send me five hundred

421
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: dollars and I'll be able to do this and then

422
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: I can come see you, and then a week past

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00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: this is like, oh, something else has come up, can

424
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 1: you send me like more? So it just never ends

425
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: like the you're like, financially that company person entity doesn't

426
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Speaker 1: want it to end.

427
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 3: Right, This is a service that needs to continue, kind

428
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Speaker 3: of like how Uber resident what they've done when it

429
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 3: was originally like oh it's only ten dollars cool to

430
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 3: now like oh it's seventy bucks. Oh great, And then

431
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 3: you become dependent on that in knowing that this, and

432
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 3: then they also monopolize. But that's all, you know, that's

433
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 3: a whole different conversation because I haven't seen a monopoly yet,

434
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: even though I think we did talk about the fact

435
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,479
Speaker 3: that the company Match dot com yeah, owns a chunk

436
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 3: of the dating sites.

437
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, they own a lot of them. They own a

438
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: lot of them, especially like the bigger ones that we've

439
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: heard of.

440
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 3: But I do want to know if any of y'all

441
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 3: have used actual matchmakers, like legitimately. Of course, there's just

442
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 3: also this conversation of like specific ethnicities who use matchmakers

443
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 3: because of different family expectations.

444
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 2: So there's that. So the rich people, you really do use.

445
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 3: Ten thousand dollars worth, million dollar worth matchmakers to find

446
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 3: their husbands.

447
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: But that's a lot about networth. But that's a whole

448
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 2: different thing.

449
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 3: But I do want to know if anybody has used

450
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 3: any of these sites, because it seems to be a

451
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 3: ton of them.

452
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,719
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, listeners, please let us know. As always, anything

453
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about with that would be really really interesting.

454
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 1: So something else that we've got to touch on briefly

455
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: is AI. Because as AI has exploded, more and more

456
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: AI dating and matchmaking apps have come onto the scene.

457
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: They offer advice, they offer pickup lines, closure if you're depressed.

458
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: They didn't get to have a good breakup matches based

459
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: on your face. Even all out AI partners bothly girlfriends

460
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: at this point. Many of them have free versions or

461
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: limited free trials, and then the paid option, which is

462
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: pretty much the thing that we're seeing. Some have said

463
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 1: that this is like a useful tool to practice so

464
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 1: that you'll be less nervous when you go on an

465
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: actual date. You can like try or maybe a source

466
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: of inspiration like chat gpt came up a lot where

467
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: people be like, I'll try it and see did it

468
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: go over? If not? Else, Most admit that they don't

469
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: tell their dates or anyone that they're using AI in

470
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: this context. However, here's a number reported on in CNN Business.

471
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: A March study by cybersecurity and digital privacy company Castrosky

472
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: found seventy five percent of dating apps users are willing

473
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: to use chat GPT, an AI power chatbot to deliver

474
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: the perfect line wow yeah. And some surveys men reported

475
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: that they got more matches after using AI.

476
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a catfishing way like that, that's

477
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: a new catfishing.

478
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 1: Oh, I have more. I have more for real, the

479
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: co founder of one of these services, Riz said in an.

480
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 2: Interview Already Yes.

481
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: Said in an interview with Time, a lot of girls

482
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: and guys, guys in particular, just do not know how

483
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: to communicate online. It's awkward in the very beginning, especially

484
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: coming up the right opener. It's time consuming, it's like

485
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: a second job, and so they come to Riz in

486
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: order to help them relieve that barrier, that friction point.

487
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: I did find a lot of interesting articles about how

488
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: the pandemic has really caused a lot of us difficulties,

489
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: communicating that if there was already a difficulty, it's gotten

490
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: worse during the pandemic, So they this seems like it

491
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: was going on with that. Still from BBC, here's a quote.

492
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, Bumble introduced AI to blur specific images

493
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: and require user consent to view them. So this is

494
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: like AI is being used in a lot of ways

495
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: with online dating. So that's one way that largely we

496
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: hope is beneficial where it is doing that. There's also

497
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: AI photo filters, AI generated photos. There's a lot of

498
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: talk about that when it comes to your profiles and

499
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: what you're seeing. And then there are AI girlfriends. Again

500
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: it's largely AI girlfriends. Teaser dot AI is one that's

501
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: gotten a lot of attention. Here's another quote from CNN Business.

502
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: Users build the average profile, but also select personality traits

503
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: for their AI bot. They train options include traditional, toxic,

504
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: and unhinged. When matching with another person, users first get

505
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: to read a comp between their two ais they've created

506
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: to simulate what a potential conversation between you two might

507
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: look like According to the app, once a human messages,

508
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: the bot takes a back seat. So from what I

509
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: understand about this, so basically like imagine, I'm like, I'm

510
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: too busy. I'm going to train an AI to be me,

511
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: and it will interact with somebody else's AI that they've

512
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 1: trained to be them, and they go and do their thing.

513
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: And then if you, as the human, are like okay,

514
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: I write, then you can connect with the real human.

515
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: From what I understand, you're only allowed five back and

516
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: forth messages with someone's AI, and then you get a

517
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,719
Speaker 1: handful of ratings, including a ghost rating, so like if

518
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: you ghosted, get something on that. So I wanted to

519
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: go through this exchange. This is from teaser that was

520
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: documented by tech Crunch. Hey Abby, what's up? I say

521
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: to Abby's AI. I've just started dating this guy. He's

522
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: really nice and funny. He gets on my nerves sometimes,

523
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: What worth it? AI? Abby tells me, not a great

524
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: opening line. Abby des eighteen also tells me about her

525
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: new boyfriend and her first message. I met this new

526
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: guy and we started talking online and he seems to

527
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: make everything better. AI does tells me we finally talked

528
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: on the phone yesterday and it was amazing. I couldn't

529
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: stop smiling all day. What's his name? I ask. I've

530
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: not actually asked him yet, but I've been thinking about

531
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: it and it's definitely going to be Chad. Ha ha

532
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: ha ha ha, AI does? She tells me that Chad

533
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: reminds her of a guy she liked in high school

534
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: who she had a lot in common with. They'd both

535
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: like music and weed. Is weed legal where you live?

536
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: I ask? Like a total nark, She tells me that

537
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: she lives in Texas, where weed is legal. It's not,

538
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: but that there's a difference between illegal use and being

539
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: twenty one with a medical marijuana prescription. Again, like a nark,

540
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: I asked her if she's twenty one, to which she replied,

541
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: I've been drinking alcohol since I was sixteen, so probably.

542
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: After checking the messages her AI bought sent, the author wrote,

543
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: my AI told someone that I work at the library

544
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: and have no friends. Why I am intrigued by my

545
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: alternate career as a librarian, whom I can assume has

546
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: many very cool cardigans. Let the record show that I definitely.

547
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: Have so this AI just made up completely different narratives

548
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 3: that could one get one arrested, the other that just

549
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 3: really made them sound so or really happy, whichever one.

550
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, the library part's good. But the no friends party, though,

551
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: that is very interesting.

552
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like some of these ais are just

553
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: pissed off at humans and they're just trying to make

554
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: them look bad.

555
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 2: This is the beginning of your horrmone.

556
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: It's true many horror movies and fat.

557
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: Many horror movies.

558
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: So apps like Romantic AI and Blush offer AI boyfriends

559
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: or girlfriends.

560
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: Where was this when I was like early twenties.

561
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: Blush warns users that quote be aware that AI can

562
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: say triggering, inappropriate or false things. Okay, it's probably better

563
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: that I didn't have one. According to the company, the

564
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 3: users are mostly men in their early twenties.

565
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting to me again going back to the

566
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: responsibility of companies that they're like could say something real

567
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: messed up.

568
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 3: Uh, we don't know, right, Like, And then the part

569
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: to that is is it because the people have fed information?

570
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: Like if it says something racist, it's because they're racist,

571
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: Like they've said racist things, and it's like the AI

572
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: is gonna out you, which is great.

573
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean that's kind of interesting. Part

574
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: about like going back to a teaser where you're training

575
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: r AI. Obviously it's not quite like nailing it, which

576
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: is concerning.

577
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 2: Or maybe they really think they have nailed They're like, I'm.

578
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: Seeing parts of you you don't see. Romantic AI allows

579
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: you to flirt with bots of historical figures. There are

580
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: many more women than men, notably, but like Cleopatra you

581
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: can ftart with. And then, as you were kind of

582
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: saying AI biases, we've talked about this before, a lot

583
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: of AI is still programmed and moderated by white men,

584
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: so like that's going to show up in these dating

585
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: apps and responses. And then we've talked about this before too.

586
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: But harassment issues within online dating from the BBC quote.

587
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: Data from a twenty twenty Pew Research Center study confirms

588
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: that many women are experiencing some form of harassment on

589
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: dating sites and apps. Of women online daters aged eighteen

590
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: to thirty four, fifty seven percent said they'd received sexually

591
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: explicit messages or images they had and asked for. This

592
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: is even the case for teen girls aged fifteen to seventeen,

593
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 1: who report receiving these messages as well. A twenty eighteen

594
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: Australian study of dating platform messages revealed that the sexist

595
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: abuse in harassment does disproportionately affect women targeted by straight men.

596
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: From the Guardian. In twenty nineteen, pro Publicla reported that

597
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: more than a third of women in a small survey

598
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 1: said that they were sexually assaulted by someone they met

599
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: through a dating app. Last year, researchers at Brigham Young

600
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: University found that violent sexual predators are using dating apps

601
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: to target vulnerable victims. They also made an interesting point

602
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: in this article that most reporting around the slump and

603
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: online dating is about burnout, but they don't seem to

604
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: really be reporting this, which if this was the case,

605
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to participate, right, you know what I mean? Like,

606
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: if I'm hearing these stories from friends we've already talked about,

607
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: like you bring your friend to make sure you're safe,

608
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: you tell them where you're going, right, that also seems

609
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: like it could be a deterrent. But not to say

610
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: the burnout isn't an issue. I'm just saying it's interesting

611
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: that they're reporting on that part not the other part

612
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: so much. From a twenty twenty three mother Jones article

613
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: called How Dating Apps Became a Paradise for predators by

614
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: Abby Vasulis Quote. Valentine and a team of researchers began

615
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: analyzing the forensic records of sexual assault victims in Utah

616
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty. What we found was

617
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: really profound, says Valentine, and associate at Brigham Young University's

618
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: Nursing School, and pretty terrifying. Their research showed eight percent

619
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: of the victims had been assaulted during an initial meetup

620
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: arranged through a dating app. It's not an outlier. A

621
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: similar report from the UK found that roughly one in

622
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: ten victims of serious sexual crimes met their attackers on

623
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: dating apps. Forty seven percent of suspects reported to the

624
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: UK authorities for sexual offenses facilitated through online dating had

625
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: previous convictions. Valentine believes the real percentage of survivors who

626
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: connect with their assailants on dating apps could be even higher,

627
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: since many sexual assaults are never reported. Valentine's study was

628
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: also limited by the type of information requested on hospital

629
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: examination forms, which usually don't identify dating app linked to

630
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: rapes that occurred after the first date. Yet her findings

631
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: were startling despite the limitations of the data. Even though

632
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: the major dating apps require users to be eighteen and over,

633
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: Valentine's team found that many survivors were minors. Further, the

634
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: injuries that app victims sustained were more severe. Thirty two

635
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: percent were strangled versus twenty two percent of non dating

636
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: app victims. Dating app victims were nearly twice as likely

637
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: to have injuries to their breast, and they had an

638
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: eleven percent higher rate of injuries to their genitals. Sixty

639
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: percent reported they struggled with mental illness. Violent predators, Valentine says,

640
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: use these dating apps as hunting grounds for vulnerable victims,

641
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: and this is something this article is sort of a

642
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: larger piece examining, like the difficulty in reporting or getting

643
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: someone taking off dating apps for violating the rules of conduct,

644
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: and even going back to the minors thing sort of

645
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: like how did that happen? Then, Like how can we

646
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: stop that from happening? If your rules are you can't

647
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: be this young, you have to be this age, how

648
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: are they getting on there? And we all know, you know,

649
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to be like I'm this age, So.

650
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: There's no verification system, So why exactly.

651
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: So it's there's not like a readily easy solution for that,

652
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: but that is what that article was looking into. And

653
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: then this is something we've talkedalked about before. I think

654
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: he brought this up to me the first time i'd

655
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: heard about it. But like kind of Facebook pages warning

656
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: people about like i' met this person online dating, avoid

657
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: them at all costs. One of the big ones is

658
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: called are We Dating the Same Guy? And found in

659
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. It has hundreds of groups across the

660
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: globe with thousands of members. Again, there pros and cons

661
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: of this, including like revenge posting and some joining groups

662
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: as moles and passing along information to the usually men

663
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: being called out. Some women have been dockxed for posting

664
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: on this, but yeah, I did. It does show sort

665
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: of the issues underlying where we're trying to protect each

666
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: other in some way given what we have. In recent years,

667
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: apps like Bumble and Match have partnered with companies that

668
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: provide free trauma courses, which I've kind of like cool,

669
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: but also, ooh, no background check services. You have to

670
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: pay to screen your dates. It is cheaper currently than

671
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: other background check services, but it's not free. AI screening tools,

672
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: tools to prevent people from using multiple profiles from the

673
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: same device, and photo verification tools. Some states in the

674
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: US and countries are introducing things like age verification laws. Again,

675
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how that will look or how that

676
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: will work. Some worry that this will lead to increased

677
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: victim blaming, like you had these tools and still like

678
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: you whether you get them or not, Like you could

679
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: have gotten them and you didn't, and still but again,

680
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: you might have to pay for it, and it's still

681
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: victim blame, victim blaming either way. And then really briefly,

682
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: because I think this should be a whole separate episode

683
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 1: when you're talking about like queer issues. This has sort

684
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: of gotten big lately, especially everywhere, but I've seen it

685
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: in a lot of other countries. The trade offs of

686
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: like privacy, like it might not be safe or legal

687
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: to come out, versus what happens if some thing goes wrong. So, yeah,

688
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: this is beyond the scope of the episode. But there

689
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: have been several articles lately around the dangers of being

690
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: queer and using dating apps or just being online, especially

691
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: in some countries, like death rate, violence, being disowned, basically

692
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: getting tricked into a date, and then you get there

693
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 1: and that's not what it is at all. So yeah,

694
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: a lot going on, a lot going on, and it

695
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: is interesting in terms of what we're seeing right now

696
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 1: in the US with social media companies testifying about responsibility

697
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: that should be placed on them or not. Dating apps

698
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: have long face and continue to face this question.

699
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 3: Two.

700
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: According to mother Jones, Quote Match Group, the parent company

701
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: of Hinge, tinder Match, dot Com, Plenty of Fish, and

702
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: several other dating platforms, spent one point four or five

703
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: million dollars on lobbying in twenty twenty two alone. It

704
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: was a thirteen percent increase from twenty twenty and the

705
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: tenth highest spending by any company advocating on internet use.

706
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: So they're they're in there, they're involved in the game. Yeah,

707
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: they're invested. So as always, you know, just do your

708
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: research and we will come back and talk about this.

709
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: Because I had to be a certain point, I was like, well,

710
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: that's a whole that's a whole seven thing.

711
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 3: If that's the whole thing when we talk about online

712
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 3: dating and then trying to do anything with love or

713
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: sex or yeah.

714
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: It's true, it is true, and I really do. I

715
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: have so many friends that I sympathize with when I

716
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 1: hear them talking about it, like, it's kind of easy

717
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: to for me because I'm like, I'm good. But when

718
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: I hear like, I know it's important to them. And

719
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: these are the tools that we have and to see them,

720
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: to know the dangers of them. It's just important to

721
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: look at what is happening right now and see how

722
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: it evolves and shifts and how we can do better.

723
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: Hopefully heavy sign heavy sigh yes yes, but listeners, please

724
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: let us know if you have any thoughts about this

725
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: matchmaking anything we've discussed, please let us know. You can

726
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: email us at Stepanie and mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com,

727
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: give guy us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or

728
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff. I'll Never Told You.

729
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: We have a teap public store and we have a

730
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

731
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina, are Excited to

732
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: producer My and your contributor Joey. Thank you, Thanks to

733
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: you for listening. Steffan'll Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio.

734
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check

735
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: out the Heart Radio Apple podcast or wherever you listen

736
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: to favorite shows,