1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Max, my 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: name is Noel, I'm Ben. You are you? And that 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. We 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: hope this podcast finds you amid Grand Adventure. If so, 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear about it. So I'll just get 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: this out of the way because we talk about the 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: Twitter and the Facebook stuff usually at the end of 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: the show, right guys, Well, we'll just we'll just mention 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: here that if you haven't found us yet, please do. 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy stuff on both Facebook and Twitter, and 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: that's one of the most immediate ways to contact us. 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: We would like to thank the listeners out there who 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: wrote to us several times over the past months and 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: asked us to cover this topic because it just kept 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: popping up in conversation, Right, yeah, we pop up in 19 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: conversation and on the fringes of a topic that we 20 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: were discussing. It came up I think in alchemy. I 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: remember you guys mentioning it and it came up in 22 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: a couple other places right before that too. I also 23 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: seem to recall it coming up one time where I 24 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: was like, all right, all Jin demons and Ben schooled 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: me real quick. So hopefully we'll get some more of 26 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: that school And oh, I don't know, we might get 27 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: schooled on this one, guys, we might. We might be 28 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: the ones going to school because this is one of 29 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: our This is an episode that's somewhere between a folklore episode, 30 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: a cryptic episode of possession episode. Jin run into a 31 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: lot of things, and first first we have to do 32 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: a disclaimer for this one. As Ben said, this is 33 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: an academic exploration of this topic about the folklore behind 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: the what a gin is, what Jin are, and we're 35 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: not We're not trying to persuade anybody to look at 36 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: anything in a certain way, especially uh, to ascribe to 37 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: any certain set of beliefs or anything like that. And 38 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: our goal is not to confirm or deny anyone's religious beliefs. Right, 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: your spiritual convictions, as always, are your own. So let's 40 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: get into this exploration. This is fascinated the three of 41 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: us for a long time. If you grew up in 42 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: the West and are not uh, practitioner of Islam or 43 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: not familiar with some of the beliefs surrounding the Middle 44 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: East and other related parts of the world, then you 45 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,119 Speaker 1: probably have some very specific ideas of what a jin 46 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: or a genie is. Oh sure, I mean a lot 47 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: of my beliefs come from pop culture, from movies, television, books, comics, 48 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: things where it would be a genie usually spelled with 49 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: a G, sometimes spelled with a J. As in the 50 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: case that I had dream of genie. Yes, yes, exactly, 51 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: that's back from the sixties. That's always the image I 52 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: had of what it looked like inside the lamp. She 53 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: had cushions everywhere, and it was like this built in 54 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: like you know, it looked like a really sweet RV 55 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: or something, you know, like with shag carpeting, you know, 56 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: like it was. It was super nice. Yeah, well then 57 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: you go you go to you know, horror films that 58 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: look at genie's Like wish Master was one that I've 59 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: watched when I was younger. I probably shouldn't have watched 60 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: it back then. Wasn't a West Craven movie. I think 61 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: Wes Craven was part of he produced it or something. Um. Yeah, 62 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: but then we get to Aladdin, the Disney movie, which 63 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know but you guys, but I 64 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: was quoting that movie for years. Yeah. Man, I had 65 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: that soundtrack on CD. It's a fantastic It's just a 66 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: fantastic film. We watched it recently, and that that holds 67 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: up for a film film? Yeah, well yeah it was film. Uh. 68 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: And then you you know, you move a little bit 69 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: forward and you get to video games, where there are 70 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: different types of jin's uh that I've encountered in many 71 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: a virtual world. You probably have too. So what do 72 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: we know about what these gins are from these things? 73 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: I have to say, I think he passed over a 74 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: very important gen Snoop Dogg's Gin and Juice. Oh sorry, 75 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: I also passed over because am you know? Oh we 76 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: forgot Kazam Yeah, Shack, thank you narrowly avoided the email 77 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: on that one from Shack himself. So what do we 78 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: know about genies from those pieces of pop culture? Well, 79 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: here's some of the main I guess we can call 80 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: them tropes that have been established about your standard run 81 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: of the mill genie jin who call it what you will, uh. 82 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: One Often they are imprisoned inside a material artifact, usually 83 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: a ring, or you know, typically a lamp, and I 84 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: guess it could be really anything, could be perhaps a 85 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: chest of some kind, like a book even you know, 86 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: you see different versions. Remember um the care Bears movie 87 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: where there was this creepy green faced ghost thing trapped 88 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: inside of a book and made the magician's assistant like, 89 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: do weird stuff? I do not. I would argue that 90 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: that is a gin in a way, because it's sort 91 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: of imprisons inside this artifact. Anyway, I digress. That always 92 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: scare the crap out of when I was a kid, 93 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: that felt like very intense film. What I saw was 94 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: really intense. Yeah, anyway, So that's that's that's a huge 95 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: part of it. Number two. Typically they grant wishes with 96 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: perilous outcomes and think of even like in films, you 97 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: have like an evil like apparition that can say I 98 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: can make this happen for you, you know, but then 99 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: other things fall apart as a result of it. You know. 100 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: That's not really what we think of when we think 101 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: of a Laddin, you know. But that usually those wishes 102 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: were I want to be the king or I want 103 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: to be you know, Prince Ali or whatever, and that 104 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: all worked out. But there are well, there are things 105 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,119 Speaker 1: that go wrong along the way trying to get this wish, 106 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: but doesn't necessarily have this built in catastrophe like this 107 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: one to one like you wish that makes something horrible 108 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: has has happened to somebody else, so um the perilous 109 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: outcomes definitely different versions of that. And finally, I mean 110 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: a really common perception of this genie type of gin 111 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: um is that they have magical powers, you know, can 112 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: shape shift. And to me, something that it always sticks 113 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: with for me is that they have a master that 114 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: once they appear to them, they are bound to that 115 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: master until they have used up some finite number of wishes. 116 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: Interesting stuff, you know, because what we're talking about now 117 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: would be again these Western conceptions. We have baseballers on 118 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: pop culture probably one of the biggest popularizers of the 119 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: of Jin folklore. The concept of jinn comes to us 120 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: from uh Shahrazad and the thousand and one Stories, right, 121 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: or excuse me, a thousand and one Arabian Nights. But 122 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: before we go into the actual world or belief system 123 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: involving gin I have to ask you, guys, because I 124 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: can't let it go listeners. You may have heard me 125 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: accidentally humming part of this song as as Nolan that 126 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: we're talking, what's your favorite song from the Aladdined soundtrack? Oh? Man, 127 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: do you have one? Musically, I'm really fond of the 128 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: Arabian Nights song. Um, it's got a really cool melody, 129 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: very evocative. I do think that's interesting. When I watched 130 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,119 Speaker 1: rewatched Aladdin recently, the lyrics changed a little bit, couple 131 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: a couple of lines. Serious. No, No, there was just 132 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: I remember when it came out and I have the 133 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: soundtrack and there's a line in the song where it 134 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: says talking about you know what it's like in this 135 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,119 Speaker 1: part of the world, And there's a line that says 136 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: where they cut off your hand if they don't like 137 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: your face. It's barbaric, but hey, it's home. And they 138 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: they changed that. It's not that lyric anymore. Do you 139 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: think those do maybe to post nine eleven. I'm not 140 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: sure when it happened, but um, you know, someone definitely 141 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: in and somewhere along that process found that line to 142 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: be offensive. So do you think maybe it was just 143 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: a censorship thing where they said that line is too 144 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: too much for kids as Yeah, that's what that's what 145 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: I would think. I mean, because you gotta think too. 146 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: That movie has been re issued probably several times. I 147 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: also you should see at what point did that happened? 148 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: But we digress, But we digress, So let's digress further. 149 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: Is let's digress all the way to the beginning, as 150 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 1: as the Mad Hatter said to Alice, started at the beginning, 151 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: go through the middle, and stop at the end. Jin 152 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: smelled j i in in in English, sometimes d j 153 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: i in in the root of genies this concept. Let's 154 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: look at the word first set amology. It's often said 155 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: to come from an Arabic root word meaning to hide, 156 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: and some interpretations take this a little bit further to 157 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: mean beings who are concealed from the senses. Uh Jin 158 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: is the plural. The singular would be genie j i 159 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: n i, and that's where genie comes from. But uh 160 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: it when it was anglicized in some places, people took 161 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 1: it to mean a guardian of a specific place. And 162 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: while these are popular theories there, there are also competing 163 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: theories or interpretations, one saying that one saying that Genie 164 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: or the concept originally came from what we're seen as 165 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: demons or evil spirits in early Christian or Judeo Christian beliefs. 166 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: But unlike some other supernatural beings, uh Jin are actually 167 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: mentioned in the Koran. They have an origin story right um. 168 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: In the Koran, God actually makes three sapient forms of life, angels, 169 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: gen and humans. Men were made of clay, angels from light, 170 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: and Jin are described as being made of a smokeless 171 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: scorching fire, which is sort of Sinister's tunding if you 172 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: ask me crazy stuff. Like humans, Jin have free will, 173 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: some are Muslim and some are not hunt and like humans, 174 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: Jin being capable of good and bad, will be judged 175 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: by God on the Day of Judgment and sent to 176 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: Hell or to Paradise as their actions accord. But here's 177 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: the thing. Although Jin are mentioned in the Koran, they 178 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: were believed in before the before Islam they were They 179 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: were pre Islamic originally, and in some cases there's some 180 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: evidence that they were maybe gods or at least spirits 181 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: that were paid tribute to uh In. In Palmira, for example, Yeah, 182 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: there's this Aramaic inscription at a place called beth Fasil 183 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: which pays tribute to the genie spelled g I n 184 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: in a y e as the good and rewarding gods. 185 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: So until about the fourth century as we rate time today, Uh, 186 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: many of the populations that were in the Middle East 187 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: practice a different polytheistic religions. There were there were significant 188 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: Jewish and later Christian minorities that developed, but Polytheism remained 189 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: the dominant belief system in pre Islamic Arabia and Jin, 190 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: which started in some cases being worshiped as gods, are 191 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: thought to have later been downgraded to lesser status as 192 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: spirits as demons, especially after the religious waves of monotheism. Yeah, 193 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: I can see that you demonize the gods that came prior. 194 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: I understand that. Well, there's religious syncretism to write. Uh, 195 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: the idea that the idea that when a religion is 196 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: growing or spreading, it says, well, these other things that 197 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: exist do exist, and we're not. What what we're doing 198 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: is we're showing you why they exist. They're also part 199 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: of this belief system, which is the one true belief system. 200 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: Is typically how a lot of religions handle it. So 201 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: where do Jin hang out? A lot of times they're 202 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: in dark places. That maybe why when the west owners 203 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 1: came along to create stories out of this, they put 204 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: him in a lamp that's really dark, or in a 205 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: you know, a ring, or in a cave or something 206 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: like that, lost as well, like sort of like they're 207 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: buried like like you know, U totally shut away, as 208 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: if they were not ever meant to be discovered again 209 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Yes, and again because they're supposed to 210 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: be isolated, right right, And if we could talk just 211 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: a little bit about the idea of where the artifact 212 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: belief comes in. Solomon was King Solomon's thought to command 213 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: spirits that were a type of jin through the use 214 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: of a ring, right, the Ring of Solomon, which I 215 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: think also still shows up in pop culture. Right, yeah, Oh, 216 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: the that ring is everywhere. I I would say, and 217 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is true because I haven't 218 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: looked too much into it, but the one ring to 219 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: rule them all, I think that might have like have 220 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: some kickbacks Mr Solomon. And then also the also we 221 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: should mention the Grimoires or the books of magic known 222 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: as the Key of Solomon or the lesser Keys of Solomon, 223 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: also thought to contain rituals which, when performed properly, allow 224 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: one to communicate with and or control these spirits. Uh, 225 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: Matt Nolan, I have not attempted to do this as 226 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: far as I know, speak for yourself, sir, Okay, okay, 227 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: Matt and Noel have attempted to do this. I don't 228 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: want to put you guys on glass and ask too 229 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: much about how how it worked out. That that doesn't 230 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: change one way or the other. So the the idea here, 231 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: which I thought was fascinating, and I'm speculating here. I 232 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you listeners because I couldn't find any 233 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: solid proof of this. But we're there jin cults like 234 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: what other than you know, other than being a statue 235 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: or shrine one would pay trip be two where they're 236 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: actually religious systems that were large built on worshiping maybe 237 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: one or two creatures or gods that would later become gin. 238 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's interesting. Well yeah, and it 239 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't have to be it wouldn't have to be that 240 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: large to be a cult of a certain gin, especially 241 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: if it was worshiped, you know, for hundreds and hundreds 242 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: of years for a while there as a god. Then 243 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: everything broke off as the new religions came through, and 244 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: then they you know, maybe an isolated group somewhere. I 245 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: can totally imagine that I can also see like maybe 246 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: there's like a rogue gin, you know, who wants to 247 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: like become more like a god and then command his 248 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: own followers. I could just see that in terms of 249 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: like folklore. Oh yeah, that happens, and we'll get to 250 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: it just a second. I think we'll really appreciate this part. 251 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: Before we get to that, let's talk about the different 252 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: types of gin, because not all are created equal. Some 253 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: have specialties, some are automatically evil, some could go either way. 254 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: But as we go into this, do you want to 255 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: abolished that? The folklore gets kind of sticky because there 256 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: are creatures or beings in other and other regions or 257 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: and sometimes even in other belief systems that are considered gin. 258 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: And then there there are arguments that people will have 259 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: over whether that whether one type of creature should be 260 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: considered a subclass of gin or its own thing. Well, 261 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: that being said, jen are smart, have social organizations, uh 262 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: in their community. They have kings, they have laws of marriages, 263 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: they have births, you know, all the normal days of 264 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: our lives stuff. They just but while humans cannot perceive gen, 265 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: apparently they can perceive the human world. So this it's 266 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: an interesting idea because it means that there is an 267 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: invisible world occurring all around us, and we are in 268 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: some sort of glass house of existence or some sort 269 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: of one way mirror. Yeah, there there are a few 270 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: planes of existence up than we are, and somehow they 271 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: can see down, but the mirror only goes one way. 272 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: That's cool. So one common belief in Muslim lord list. Again, 273 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: this list is not This list is not universally accepted. 274 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: But let's let's look at the various types of jenn. 275 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: The first would be uh the mariad or married m 276 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: A R I D. And I do apologize for pronunciation 277 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: of Arabic here uh. In Lane's Arabic English lexicon, these 278 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: types of jin are said to be the strongest, the 279 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: ones of great power uh in in the in the 280 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: Lanes lexicon. They're actually said to be evil, but this 281 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: isn't universally agreed on. These are the ones we think. 282 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: I only think of the genie in Aladdin, the ability 283 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: to do all these powerful things, even unto granting wishes, 284 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: if you flatter them enough, if they like you, if 285 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: you do something for them. Uh. And that's so, that's 286 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: what people in the West generally think about. But that's 287 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: not all of the gin in the world. Now you 288 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: also have an affret and this is one that I 289 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: have heard of before. You may have heard of this 290 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: as well. It's often described as this enormous winged creature 291 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: of fire. Think of phoenix almost in my head, and 292 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: that's what I'm seeing. Can be either sex, male or female. 293 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: It lives ground, underground, and a lot of times it 294 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: will it will fly around ruins of someplace where tragedy 295 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,479 Speaker 1: has occurred or war has been fought, or you know, 296 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: where something has where something has occurred where perhaps there 297 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: was death. And then we get to it's called the 298 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: shad or the shy time U s h i t 299 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: a n s h a y t a. And this 300 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: this goes exactly to what you were talking about. And also, uh, 301 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: the concept is like this that during the creation of 302 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: the world, there is one jin that refuses to bow 303 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: to God and its name is Iblis. Sounds familiar, sounds 304 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: a little like, Oh, I don't know, was that the church, 305 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: lady Revercott, I don't know, was it. So this is 306 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: that this would be considered the devil in the Qoran, 307 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: and the devil had followers Jin who decided to side 308 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: with iblis uh. And it's it's interesting because while there 309 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: are parallels, they are you know, there are differences as well. 310 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: The primary thing here is that these creatures which sometimes 311 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: are not considered jin but simply demons. Depending upon which 312 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: scholar you're talking to or which book you're basing it on, 313 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: is it based on the Koran? Is it based on 314 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: earlier like folklore, right, academic studies, So there are going 315 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: to be differences in interpretation here, but the main thing 316 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: that always stays the same is that these are the 317 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: bad guys nice, they're not cool? Uh? And then speaking yeah, 318 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: speaking of not cool, there's something else the google. So 319 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: I guess that's where that word comes from. Yes, yeah, 320 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: just so. Yeah. Nowadays we think of gooules as the 321 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: um as similar to a vampire, right, these undead creatures 322 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: usually that eat flesh rather than drink blood for sustenance. 323 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: And goblins is what I see. I see two d 324 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: little pixelated things. They tend to travel by shambling, yes, 325 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: the primary form of locomotion. I actually think. I play 326 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: the Fallout series a lot and really enjoy those. And 327 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: there is a whole um you know, group of arcters 328 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: called ghouls and they've basically been irradiated to the point 329 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: where there they look like you know, zombies, but they 330 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: don't necessarily eat flesh unless they've kind of passed a 331 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: threshold and then they get to a point where they 332 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: will be exactly they're called feral ghouls. Exactly do they 333 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: have do they have any profound abilities or they just 334 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: rotting people? Um? It depends. Like there are some that 335 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: are so irradiated that they can actually shoot like radiation 336 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 1: energy a you and like vomit like you know, radiate 337 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: radioactive goo. Um. But you know, some of the ones 338 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: that are that are still more or less human, they 339 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, run taverns things like that. You know, so 340 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: that the ghouls that we're talking about are a little different, 341 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: I know, but I love those guls. There are several 342 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: that you interact with in the third one that make 343 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: you very happy. Uh. But these these a lot of 344 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: times will inhabit a graveyard, right. There are other places 345 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: that just there's no humans. And this type of jen 346 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: has been said to be sired by it bliss, so 347 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: not siding with this uh, diabolical character against God, but 348 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: to have been created by this diabolical character. And then 349 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: there is the gen j a n n uh thought 350 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: of as the weakest type of jin. So a few 351 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: traditions divide gin into three classes, those who have wings 352 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: and fly in the air, those who resemble snakes and dogs, 353 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: and those who simply travel ceaselessly. But they've also been 354 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: described as creatures of different forms vultures, snakes, others like humanoid. 355 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: They might even be dragons or a number of other animals. 356 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: And and it said that some of these can shape 357 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: shift right, right, So that would maybe another reason why 358 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: we have so many different depictions of animals, and very 359 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: widely varying animals. And let's talk about gin and magic. 360 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: Did did you think I was gonna say, jen and juice? 361 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: I was really hoping. I was hoping I would to 362 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: hope springs eternal. I guess that will be for afterwork, right. Uh. 363 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: In folklore, of course, these beings are often associated with magic, 364 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: its concept that exists in the modern day still as 365 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: the old rub a magic lamp, get some wishes bits. 366 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: And we mentioned that, uh, certain historical humans like King 367 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: Solomon were said to control jin, and in some ways 368 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: acts of magic entirely have been described as a magician 369 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: entering into some sort of contract with one or more 370 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: of these beings of Gin and worshiping them, or I 371 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: guess paying some sort of obeesience in order to receive information. 372 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: That's one of the big ones about unknown things, so 373 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: Claire sentience, clairvoyance, or to receive riches power. Well, you know, 374 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: the whole standard, the usual, the usual, uh, supervillain starter package. 375 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: And you've got some lines from the Koran here I 376 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: had mentioned Iblis, right, we mentioned Iblis, who would be 377 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: Satan in in this story, Satan didn't follow or Iblis 378 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: didn't follow God's command to prostrate himself unto man. So 379 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: he still he still wouldn't play ball, but he said, 380 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm not the one to prostrate myself to a human being, 381 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: because you know, you made him out of clay. And 382 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: then to which point God said get out. And the 383 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: existence of jin, as mentioned in the Koran, matters immensely, 384 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: maybe more so than you might think, because for many 385 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: people they would say, well, Matt Noel Ben, this is interesting, 386 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: but this is folklore. Why are you talking about it? 387 00:23:51,880 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Here's 388 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. You see, belief in jin is 389 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: not something restricted two thousands of years ago. It is 390 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: not something that exists distant chronologically. There is a modern 391 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: belief in Jin. There are like people across the world 392 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: believe that Jin are real, yeah, and they want to 393 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: prove that it's real through science. Right. Though not all 394 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: Muslims believe in Jin, many do and some universities published 395 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: research and hold workshops seeking to prove the existence of 396 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: Jin and argue how they exist in the modern world 397 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: or how science can help humanity understand the nature of 398 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: these beings. So an example would be from Jin Invade 399 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: Campus by Purvis Hood boy Um a workshop quote. A 400 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: workshop title Jin's and Black Magic was organized in Islamabad 401 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: by the Department of Humanities at the Compstats Institute of Technology, 402 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: which is the s c I i T, one of 403 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: Pakistan's largest universities. The invited speaker, Razab xil Hawk, introduced 404 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: as a spiritual cardiologist, is reputedly an expert on demonic 405 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: possessions and evil spirits. So this is an elite university 406 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: in Pakistan. So this this is an active area of studying. Right. 407 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: It's it's very important to say, for instance, unlike um, 408 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: unlike what what would another thing be? Fairies or you know, uh, 409 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: imagine inserts supernatural being here. Uh, it's it's not as uh, 410 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: it's not as derided as those kinds of beliefs. Or 411 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of like an an angels expert came to 412 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: speak at Harvard or something as imagining. Yeah, that's not 413 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: a bad comparison, you know, or at M I T 414 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: or something. So while proposing theories about the nature of JEN, 415 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: these researchers and academics have at times have a time said, well, 416 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: science can help us understand these we're there, you'll see 417 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: references to maybe microorganisms or parallel universes or forms of 418 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: imperceivable energy and higher frequencies. At this point, the concept 419 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: of GIN is not scientifically accepted in the West or 420 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: many non Muslim parts of the world. And again we 421 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: want to emphasize we're not painting with a broad brush here. 422 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: We're saying nothing about all people of a specific religion, 423 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: where what we are establishing instead is that people in 424 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: the modern world today, as you listen to this, believe 425 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: that jin exists. And that's not just that they don't 426 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: just exist as some sort of passive, watchful entities, right 427 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: that you can maybe get some wishes out of if 428 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: you have the right ring or the right lamp, they 429 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: have agency, they have the ability to do things in 430 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: the human world to humans. And this is kind of 431 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: the disturbing part. No, man, if you like, there's plenty 432 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: of Christians that would say the same thing about angels, 433 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent point. Yeah, no, absolutely, But 434 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: the creepy thing here is what if these things do 435 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: exist and they can possess humans to cause humans to 436 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: do things that they normally wouldn't, perhaps to influence something politically, 437 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: a movement or something like that. I that's one of 438 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: the beliefs, right right, Yeah, there's this belief that jin 439 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: are able to possess human beings. And this this is 440 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: a weird thing. So you can go right now on 441 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: YouTube and see footage of what what are said to 442 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: be exorcisms. And we we talked about this a little 443 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: bit in a previous episode when we cover the differences 444 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: between exorcisms around the world. You know, like the the 445 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: Catholic Church has a very specific right and and uh 446 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: and in Islam there are specific rights as well. You 447 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: can also find people who are you know, who are 448 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: describing the signs of possession by a jin or the 449 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: signs of someone trafficking and magic the sign that you 450 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: have encountered somehow a jin, and the possession is typically 451 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: exorcised through uh the recitation of the Koran, seeking refuge, remembrance, 452 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: and supplicators uh as. It's also a way that other 453 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: sicknesses or problems might be addressed. And I really like 454 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: people to check out our our previous episode on exorcism 455 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: because we had an interesting conversation that I guess we 456 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: won't get into too much here, but I want to 457 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: know what you folks think is possession real in your experience, 458 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: because we know that historically signs of mental illness were 459 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: mistaken for possession. We know that signs of grief or 460 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: maybe psychotic breaks or maybe even mental disabilities all mistaken 461 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: for possession at some point in the past, which is 462 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: a horrific thing. But according to people who believe this, 463 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: Jim Jin possession is something that experts can clearly discern 464 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: and through the use of these techniques drive drive the 465 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: jin out, and unlike demons possessing people in Catholic or 466 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: Christian belief systems, jin are not necessarily evil. Yeah, that's 467 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: a huge difference. They have free will, so I was 468 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: looking at in the course of research, I was looking at, uh, 469 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: some some scholars, some Islamic scholars, talking about Jin possession, 470 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: and one of the big reasons for possession, according to 471 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: some of these sources was love, like a jin being 472 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: in love with a human, with the human that they're possessing, 473 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: or with another human that they're possessing a to get 474 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: to be either way. What if we take it back 475 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: a step to our early description of kind of the 476 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: preconceived ideas of a genie or a gin, and as 477 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: we've gotten to where we are now in the podcast, 478 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: I think we've sort of taking that apart a little bit. 479 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: And I'm just wondering, is that do you consider that 480 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: version those points we made about you know, being chained 481 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: to a an artifact of sub sort and you know, 482 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: granting wishes and things like that and ultimately being a 483 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: force for kind of chaos based on what happens when 484 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: those wishes are granted. Is all that just from kind 485 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: of like whitewashed like re tellings of you know, folk 486 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: stories and made to be more palatable for a wider audience, 487 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: sort of like in the same way that you know, 488 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: grim fairy tales were much much nastier, and then they're 489 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: sort of retooled. You know, that's a really interesting question. 490 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: What do you think, man, I would say, that's exactly 491 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: what's happened, because we've got one specific type of gin 492 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,719 Speaker 1: that are being described by most of the pular culture 493 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: that the ma read. I don't know how to say 494 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: it correctly. I think it's the mariad uh. And you know, 495 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: so you've got that one particular story and then you 496 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: kind of expand out and say, well, this is what 497 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: all genies are like when you look at it through 498 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: the lens. I think that's what's happening. Yeah, I can 499 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: see the religious syncretism occurring there as well. And it's 500 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: also important for us to note that modern belief in 501 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: jin is not necessarily unique in in that um. Just 502 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: in the process of this sort of belief. For instance, 503 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: there are other persistent beliefs in things that you know, 504 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: the rest of the world will call supernatural rather than factual. 505 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: Ghost of ancestors are still commonly venerated in religions around 506 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: the world, and then invisible elves in Iceland. You guys 507 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: heard about that, right, They they're real, guys. I think 508 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: they're real. The who do folk uh these elves in 509 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: Icelandic folklore. The belief is so commonplace, or purportedly so commonplace, 510 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: that it affects modern construction. Also, I one thing that 511 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: fascinates me is when when people look at beliefs in spirits, 512 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: and you know, there are some people who can put 513 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: up a very strong argument that jin are not spirits 514 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: so much as they are another type of living thinking being. 515 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: You know, because they do live, they're not undead. So 516 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: this stuff astonishes and amazes me, both the growth of 517 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: the folklore to the modern day beliefs. And I know 518 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: for certain that it is easy for some people to 519 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: feel maybe condescending in some way and say, oh, look 520 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: at this outdated belief And I live in the modern age. 521 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: And because I live in the modern age, I know 522 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: better than these people who believe differently For me, but 523 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: especially if you live in the developed world, I would 524 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: ask you, uh to examine some of the common beliefs 525 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: we have. Future historians are going to think that we 526 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: were so foolish when we explained the following situation. Yes, 527 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: back in the day, we used to hop into these 528 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: machines the way thousands and thousands of pounds and we're 529 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: we're powered by explosions internally. And we would drive within 530 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: feet of each other because we called it driving, and 531 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: they would say, well, hey, wait, how did you do 532 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: it safely? And we said, well, we had this honor system. 533 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: You see. We painted lines on places where we would 534 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: drive and we just said we wouldn't hit each other. 535 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: And would say, oh, but so is that how you 536 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: avoided accidents and would say no, no, accidents happened constantly, constantly. 537 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: We we just we believed we were safer but got hurt, right, right, 538 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: So I wouldn't. What I'm saying is that it is 539 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: an error for anyone me, Noel, Matt you perhaps listener 540 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: to assume that we have the conclusive and final answer 541 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: on what we believe in the worth of what we believe, right, 542 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: So I would say, we have to be very careful 543 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: not to cast dispersions or stones. You know, if I'm 544 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: in Iceland and somebody tells me not to mess with 545 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: the rock because something lives there. Yeah, whether or not 546 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: I personally believe, I'm not gonna launch into some lecture 547 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: you know, about the nature of geology. Uh, And this 548 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: this is where we leave it. We are a world 549 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: filled to the brim with people. There are billions of 550 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: us and amongst those billions, depending on who you believe 551 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: and what you're reading, there exists billions more unseen things 552 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: that in terms of philosophy and mental ability, quite similar 553 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: to us. So just like our earlier, earlier work on 554 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: coded languages, you know, again there's this invisible world and 555 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: more and more I think about it, we're running into 556 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: these concepts of invisible worlds. We talked about train hoppers 557 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: and some things as serial killer cults, when we talked 558 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: about jin So that's that's really what I see us 559 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 1: going into. More and more are these ideas of hidden 560 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: worlds and this concept of what we can and cannot prove. 561 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: But I have a question, uh for you guys listeners, 562 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: do you have any in your neck of the woods. 563 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: Do you have any um popular folklore beliefs in unseen 564 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: or supernatural beings? And if so, do you believe the stories? Why? 565 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: Could you tell us some pacifics? Yeah? Do you have 566 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: any anecdotes where you maybe have had an encounter? I 567 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: don't want to hear those, yeah, that you could or 568 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: could not explain. And I'd like to close on a 569 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: question for you guys, if if we each had a 570 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: wish and it would and you couldn't wish for more wishes, 571 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: what would your wish be? Oh man, this is tough. 572 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: I think I would probably. I mean there's two there. 573 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: You can split it down the middle. You can go 574 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: for like a very self serving wish, or you could 575 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: go for a wish that helps others. But then you 576 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: get into that situation where it's all about the language. 577 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: It's all about the wording of the wish, really careful, 578 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, because you might say I want world peace 579 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: and it means that everyone dies, right. Or you might 580 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: say you might say I want to live forever, and 581 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: you do, but you still age and everywhere, trap somewhere, 582 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: and all your loved ones die around you. Um, I 583 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: guess I would just I would wish I would do 584 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: some of some very carefully worded version of just you know, 585 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: just wanting to never you know, like be able to 586 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: always make sure I can take care of my family 587 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: and myself and just have maybe not absurd wealth, but 588 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: just be comfortable all the time and never have to 589 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: worry about paying bills and anything of that nature. Just 590 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: have some sort of like maybe maybe it's a magic 591 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,919 Speaker 1: platinum card that you can just pay for everything with 592 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: and you never get a bill, you know, something like that. 593 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: I know that's very selfish and boring, but I just 594 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: feel like the world case one would you know, could 595 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: potentially be disastrous. I would ask for a single, let's say, 596 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: a single tomato plant that always has tomatoes on it. Always, 597 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: no matter how many tories you take from the plant, 598 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: there's always more tomatoes. It's like you gets sick of tomatoes. 599 00:37:55,160 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: I don't care, man, and I will never and yeah 600 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: this caveat at the end, I will never never get 601 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: sick of I can always sell the tomatoes, saying have 602 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: you been going through some tomato related shenanigans? Man? Are 603 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,439 Speaker 1: you okay? I was trying to imagine something that would 604 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: be super manageable, that would be small. I was trying 605 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: to think of ways that it could hurt me. Don't 606 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,800 Speaker 1: think you have to tomatoes? And you you didn't mention 607 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: the size of the planet, so what if it's so huge? 608 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: It's okay. We we don't have a gen in the room. 609 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: What about you, Ben? I have no idea, and I'm 610 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 1: not sure I want to reveal that much about my personality, 611 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: but I would Okay, I would probably wish for in 612 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: a very carefully worded way, as Noel said, I would 613 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: wish for uh, some series of superpowers and try to 614 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: sneak them all in as like the same thing. My 615 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: one wish would be a run on sentence obviously, just 616 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: a c y A right, And then I would try 617 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: to use those powers to make the world a better place, 618 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: because it's all about the journey, isn't it. And uh, 619 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: And I also think I'm also concerned, just in this 620 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: fictional world of granted wishes, I also wonder if there's 621 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 1: some higher chance or likelihood of things going wrong if 622 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: the wish affects more people. So maybe if you just 623 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: wish for something for yourself and then use that to 624 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: affect a larger change, it's safer, It's really good. Ben 625 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: Even something like invisibility, Let's think about how often that 626 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,479 Speaker 1: comes into play as being the ultimate power to get 627 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: things done, you know what I mean. So you could 628 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: certainly affect some change with invisibility. You could sneak into 629 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: so many places in Bermuda in Singapore, and you could 630 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: do the next Panama papers. I would well, you know 631 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,839 Speaker 1: that's the thing. Would you be invisible to the human eye, 632 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: in visible to everything? Could you wear clothes because I 633 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: don't want to try to see you want to be 634 00:39:54,840 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: invisible at will to all? You just fall through the 635 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: map listeners that listeners. Uh you know, Matt and I 636 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 1: wish you guys could see the way that Nole's eyes 637 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: lit up when they said through all that was great. 638 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I would go for invulnerability teleportation. I would 639 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: say psionic powers, just so I could get all of them. 640 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: Just say all the X Men. That's all you have 641 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: to say. Oh no, man, there's some X Men. You 642 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: weren't that great, but that that gen is gonna call 643 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: Shenanigans on that wish though, dude, Like I mean, it's 644 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: like the man, come on, yeah, they've seen it all. 645 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: They can't. You can't do that. They pick one be 646 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: an immortal and then they would plush you with their 647 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: giant thumb. Yeah, or maybe it'll short circuit. It'll say, 648 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, I've had a hard week. Been the best 649 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,359 Speaker 1: thing you do is a cheese steak, And I'll say, thanks, dude, 650 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: cool man, I appreciate it. Never ending cheese steak. When 651 00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: never ending cheese steak, Oh dude, that's crazy. You could 652 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: feed the world with one. She's steak that never ends. 653 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think we're optimistic here and 654 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: we're thinking of we're thinking of the best possible outcomes. 655 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: But I'm gonna spend some time, Uh, I'm gonna spend 656 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: some time pondering what a decent wish would be and 657 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: how you would write it. We hope that you enjoyed 658 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: this episode. Ladies and gentlemen. What kind of stuff would 659 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 1: you wish for? And please do remember to tell us 660 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: about what kind of things are beings you've heard about 661 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: in your neck of the global woods. We want to 662 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: hear from you. And speaking of hearing from you, it's 663 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:45,399 Speaker 1: time for shut ut corners. Yes, that's right, shout out 664 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: corner the moment in every show where we shout out 665 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: listeners who request said shout out um. First today we 666 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: have one for East Bay, newt A k A muti 667 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,919 Speaker 1: uh he or she is interested hearing more about Planet nine, 668 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: and I fear I can't help with that, can you? 669 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: What's what's those? It's the proposed ninth planet that we 670 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: found in the Solar System that's out over there by Pluto, 671 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: way out there. I missed that one, guys. I want 672 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: to know more too. It hasn't been confirmed yet, but 673 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: it's we're pretty sure there's something there from from the 674 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 1: the way the other planets move. Well, let's dig into it. 675 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: That's an excellent suggestion, Thank you, NUTI. Our next shout 676 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: out is from Justin for this quote, specifically, the best 677 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: way to find a needle in a haystack is to 678 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: set the hay on fire. This goes back to our 679 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: earlier conversation about the Panama papers. And you can find Justin. 680 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: He is at math math anug and that's m A 681 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: T h A in U g G if you want 682 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: to follow him. And here more interesting quotes if I 683 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: remember correctly, though, I think the analogy we used was 684 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: a needle and a pile of needles, but unfortunately needles 685 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: are not flammable. In that case, it was needles on needles. 686 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: And finally today shout out to Debbie's utant. I think 687 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,800 Speaker 1: I'm saying that correctly. She wrote to us on Facebook. 688 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: She said very nice things, and she also said, if 689 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: we are ever in the Florida Keys, gentlemen, we are 690 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,319 Speaker 1: invited out to her bar where she bartends, and she 691 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: will she said, we will have an extra special time, 692 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 1: I guess because she would get us drunk. Game on. 693 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: All right, Well, that's all from us for to day. 694 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. Please check out our video on jin Uh. 695 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,919 Speaker 1: Please also stay tuned to hear what topics recovery next. 696 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: We do a live show about once a week and 697 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: you can ask us anything. Typically we're over on Facebook now, right, guys, 698 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: that's correct. We're hanging out on Facebook all the time. 699 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna be throwing some more videos up there very soon. 700 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: Oh what is the date right now? Guys? Two more days. 701 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: We have a very special classic episode that we're gonna 702 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: put up on Facebook very soon and you'll know why. 703 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, if you have any ideas for 704 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: upcoming topics we should cover, we would love to hear 705 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: from you. Take a page out of Nudie, Justin and 706 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: Debbie's book and drop us a line on Facebook or Twitter, 707 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: or don't like the social media rigormar role and you've 708 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 1: got a longer story to tell us, We love to 709 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: hear that as well. You can email us directly. We 710 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: are conspiracy at how stuff Works dot com.