1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: This is black and white. I mean, hold the hearings. 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Bring these people up. I mean Bill Barr, he is 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: soaker up and the trail. He can't hide it. They 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: can't scrub it or hide. It's all there. The only 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: way that this gets buried and goes away is if 6 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: somehow Congress doesn't open the sup. 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 2: I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I serve in 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 2: all around the. 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 3: World, and in my thirty three years with the CIA, 11 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 3: I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East. 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,319 Speaker 2: Although we don't usually look at it this way, we 13 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: created conspiracies. 14 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 3: In our operations. We got people to believe things that 15 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 3: weren't true. 16 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the 17 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: news almost every day. 18 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 3: We'll break them down for you to determine whether they 19 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 3: could be real or whether we're being manipulated. 20 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to Mission Implausible. So now we're going to continue 21 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: our discussion with Lev Parnas. As you recall, Lev Parnas 22 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: is a Soviet born American businessman. He was a former 23 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: associate of Rudy Giuliani's and along with Jiuliani in Ukraine. 24 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: They were conspiring to create a theory that Joe Biden 25 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: was involved in criminal activities. 26 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 3: In October of twenty twenty one, Lef Parnas was found 27 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 3: guilty of funneling money from pro Russian Ukrainian oligarchs to 28 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 3: the Trump campaign. 29 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 4: And he did his time and he's now out. 30 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 3: So led Parnas was colluding with the Russians to funnel 31 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 3: money into the Trump campaign. 32 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: From the outside, Lev looked like another member of the 33 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: rogues gallery that circled around Rudy Giuliani and the former president, 34 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: many who like Lev, ended up serving time as such. 35 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: We naturally had some reservations about Lev and as apparent 36 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: change of heart, but like several others that have broken 37 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: from the former president, his stories seemed to hold together, 38 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: and since he has unique insights, we think it's valuable 39 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: to hear from him, even if we're not totally okay 40 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: with what he has done and how he got here. Well, 41 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: let's continue with part two of our conversation with Lev Parnas, going. 42 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: Back to twenty sixteenth. There is something interesting I just 43 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 3: want you to comment on it. So in the run 44 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: up to twenty sixteen, Trump said straight out, I have 45 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 3: no business interests right now in Russia. 46 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 4: Nothing going on. 47 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: Trump said that in a presidential debate with Hillary Clinton. 48 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: Here's a clip. 49 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 4: I don't know Putin. 50 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 5: I think it would be great if we get along 51 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 5: with Russia because we could fight ISIS together as an example. 52 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 4: But I don't know Putin. 53 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 5: But I noticed anytime anything wrong happens, they like to 54 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 5: say the Russians. The Russian doesn't know if it's the 55 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 5: Russians doing the hacking. Maybe there is no hacking, but 56 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 5: they always blame Russia. And the reason they blame Russia 57 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 5: because they think they're trying to tarnish me with Russia. 58 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 4: I know nothing about Russia. 59 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 5: I know I know about Russia, but I know nothing 60 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 5: about the inner workings of Russia. I don't deal there. 61 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 5: I have no businesses that have no loans from Russia. 62 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 5: I have a very very great balance sheet. 63 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 3: Later it came out that was a lie that Rudy 64 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 3: Giuliani and he were both working on putting in this 65 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 3: large deal to put Trump Tower into Moscow, and that 66 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 3: they had actually signed a letter of intent, and Rudy 67 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 3: Juli had said, yes, we do have a letter of 68 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 3: tent with Russia during the run up to the twenty 69 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 3: sixteen elections. But it wasn't signed. And then he said, yes, 70 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 3: it was signed. 71 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: I think that was Cohen. Wasn't that Cohen, not Julianna. 72 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I Rudy it was Michael Cohen and Felix Ader. 73 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I stand corrected. 74 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 3: So the Russians in the run up to the twenty 75 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 3: sixteen election, they knew that Trump was lying to the 76 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 3: American people, but the American people didn't know that that 77 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 3: was a lie. 78 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely so. 79 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 3: I mean in our world that's compromise, right, that's compromise. 80 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, a compromid. But not only that, these are messages 81 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: that they see. People think that Trump colluding with Russia 82 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: means that Trump and Puchin again on the phone, and 83 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: they concocted this plan. And now they go, no, that 84 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: didn't happen. That's what I mean. That doesn't mean colluding 85 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: didn't happen. You know, Trump is a useful idiot. He's 86 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: doing things that Puchin himself can't imagine somebody would do 87 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: strictly like out of Puchin's playbook, by dismantling NATO, by 88 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: attacking Ukraine, by causing havoc in the States by telling 89 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: the whole world America first, and we don't care about 90 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: what happens, pulling our shoulders everywhere. You know, I mean 91 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: all of these things is if could have asked them 92 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: to do it. 93 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 3: I want to be clear for the audience to understand. 94 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 3: So Trump knows and this has been proven, this isn't intersputed. 95 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 3: Trump knows that he's lied, that there's a letter of 96 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 3: intent that the Russians have, the information is still working 97 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 3: in this and yet Trump trusted that Putin wouldn't come 98 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 3: out during the election and say that's a lie. Here's 99 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 3: the letter of intent. We do have a business deal 100 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 3: on the tape. 101 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: Correct, Well, don't forget Manifor was working for Trump. 102 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 3: So Trump trusted that Putin wouldn't do that. And Trump 103 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: knew that Putin could destroy him if he wanted to. 104 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: But you can understand another thing. You can understand that 105 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: Trump had the same analytics, if not even better than 106 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: stuff that we were shown. They knew that Russia's involved 107 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: in the elections. They knew Russia's but and that benefit 108 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: when he was even asked the question, they said, you 109 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: know what, presidents aren't really supposed to take foreign information. 110 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: If somebody old you up and had said they had 111 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: some dirt on Hillary Clinton, would you take it? He 112 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: goes absolutely. What I'm saying to you is he wanted 113 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: that interference, so he wanted to basically send messages back 114 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: and forth that were playing ball. Just think about even this, guys, 115 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: what benefit did Donald Trump have to do a couple 116 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: of months ago when he came out on media and 117 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: all of a sudden said I'm gonna, you know, NATO, 118 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: if they don't pay up, you know, I'm going to 119 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: tell Putchin he could do whatever he wants. People thought 120 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: that was just a crazy rant, but there wasn't. It 121 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: was a message sent to Putchin. 122 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 6: NATO was busted until I came along. I said, everybody's 123 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 6: going to pay. 124 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 5: They said, well, if we don't pay, are you still 125 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 5: going to protect us? 126 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 6: I said absolutely not. They couldn't believe the answer, and 127 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 6: everybody you never saw more money pour in. The Secretary 128 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 6: General Stoltenberg, well, I don't know if he is anymore, 129 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 6: but he was my biggest fan. He said, all these 130 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 6: presidents came in, they'd make a speech, they'd leave, and 131 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 6: that was a bit. 132 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 5: And they all owed money and they wouldn't pay it. 133 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 4: I came in, I made a speech. 134 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: And I said, you got to pay up. 135 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 5: They ak me that question. 136 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 6: One of the presidents of a big country stood up said, well, sir, 137 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 6: if we don't pay and we're attacked by Russia, will 138 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 6: you protect us? 139 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 5: I said, you didn't pay your delinquent. 140 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 4: He said, yes, let's say that happened. No, I would 141 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 4: not protect you. 142 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 6: In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the 143 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 6: hell they want. 144 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 7: You gotta pay, you gotta pay your bills. 145 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 4: And the money came flowing in. 146 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: And what happened a couple of days later, which was 147 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: a response from Putin, what happened Navani got killed. He 148 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: responded to him by saying, basically, yeah, we will do 149 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: what ever we want. And these are type of things 150 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: actions there have. Because he didn't have to go say, 151 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: he could have waited to be president and behind the 152 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: door said that to NATO officials like normal presidents say 153 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: and negotiate with him. He didn't have to come out 154 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: while he's running for US and run on that platform. 155 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: Just think about it. He basically said, I'm running on 156 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: a platform. If I get into office, I'm going to 157 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: dismantle NATO. Because they don't pay enough, and I'm going 158 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: to allow Vladimir Putin to do what he wants. 159 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: Understand each other exactly, You understand the systema exactly. 160 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: That's that's why people say, well, did Trump tell you 161 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: to do this? Exactly? No, Trump doesn't talk like that. 162 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: Trump spoke to Rudy. Rudy filled them in and they 163 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: came up to me and said, thank you for the 164 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: good work. Continue the good job. That's that old New 165 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: York Mafia type of way of doing things. Just in 166 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: case you're being listened to, or just in case somebody 167 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, you're talking code. You talk to me. You know, 168 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: you don't walk in and say I'm going to blow 169 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: up your restaurant. You come in and say, oh, yeah, 170 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: what a beautiful restaurant. God forbid, something should happen to it. 171 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: You know. It's like that type of a system works too, exactly. 172 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's built off of the same narcissistic 173 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: mentality of you know, fear power, intimidation. 174 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 4: I got a question. 175 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 3: According to Washington Post, Rudy Giuliani was specifically told by 176 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 3: the FBI or somebody that he was being manipulated by 177 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: Russian intelligence all these these people we talked about. Giuliani 178 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 3: later sort of disputed that said, no, I wasn't told, 179 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 3: so I don't know where that actually is. So he 180 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: wasn't he told? And then second of all, what did 181 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 3: the Russians think of what's it like to work with 182 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 3: Rudy Giuliani? I mean, did they pick him because he 183 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: was easy pickings? 184 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: Like? No, you gotta understand. I mean, these people like 185 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: Rudy Julian and Trump are really useful idiots. I mean 186 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: they're spewing propaganda that the Russians themselves could make up. 187 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: They've joined. They're both of their initiative and theory and 188 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: purpose is on the same level. They both want to 189 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: get Trump into office. It's like they know what needs 190 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: to be done. The Russians know they need to interfere 191 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: into our elections and do whatever possible to get Trump 192 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: into office. And Trump and Rudy and everybody else knows 193 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: that they need to deflect all of this to make 194 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: sure the American public doesn't think it's the Russians and 195 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: let them get away with whatever they're doing. And that's 196 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: simply what's going on in open form the whole world 197 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: to see. I mean they're not even hiding it. I mean, 198 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: it's in plain sight. It's crazy. 199 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: But when you say they're useful idiots, and that's a 200 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: long time term used with sort of Russian intelligence and 201 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: the Soviets. But do any of them believe it? Does 202 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: Trump believe these things? Does Rudy believe this absolutely? And 203 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 2: then the names of people we talked about Nunia's sessions, 204 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: Juliana Perry, Ron Johnson, the Manaport. Did they know they're 205 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: lying or do some of them actually believe this stuff? 206 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: Well, some of them believe it, like for instance, Rudy 207 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: and Trump, I mean think Joe Biden is corrupt, They 208 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: think Joe Biden's whole family is corrupt. They think Joe 209 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: Biden plagiarized stuff. I mean it goes back and back 210 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: and back. So yeah, I mean they truly believe it. 211 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: They just think they got him and they're going to 212 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: disclose it. But then you got people like Ron Johnson, 213 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: I mean, how could he believe the truth? Just think 214 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: about he signed the letter to get Victor Choken fired. 215 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: He was one of the congressmen, Republican Congressman Ron Johnson, 216 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: Senator Ron Johnson that signed the letter saying that Victor 217 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: Schokn is corrupt and he needs to go. In twenty 218 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen, whenever that letter was written, and now fast 219 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: forward it in twenty eighteen nineteen. He didn't want to 220 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: get involved and was put into this by the group 221 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: and then said that he would push this information through 222 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: the halls of Congress. And now fast forward it to 223 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. He's the leader. I'm saying that Victor 224 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: Shokin was fired by Biden. So you told me. I mean, 225 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: it's simple. I mean, this is how corrupt these guys are. 226 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: It's just like Rudy Giuliani if you take a look 227 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: at the Feartish stuff. Literally a month before he decided 228 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: for us to take Fiata Sean and have Victoria Tonzing 229 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: signed a million dollar contract with them and everything like that. 230 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: A month before that, Rudy was on Fox TV saying 231 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: that Demitri Featish is the worst of the worst, that 232 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: how come he still hasn't been extra guited that this 233 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: is a Russian acid intelligent that you're working with Ukraine 234 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: inter fear in our elections. And then a month later 235 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 1: he's taking a million dollars from him and everything is 236 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: hon Kydorian we're moving forward and this is black and white. 237 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: I mean, hold the hearings, bring these people up. I 238 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: mean Bill Barr, he is so corrupt and the trail 239 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: he can't hide it. The only way he could hide 240 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: this trail is if they don't hold the hearings. It's 241 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: all there. It's all in email messages, between interoffice emails 242 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: and text messages. They can't scrub it or hide It's 243 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: all there. The only way that this gets buried and 244 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: goes away is if somehow Congress doesn't open this up. 245 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 4: Let's take a breather and back in a moment, and 246 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 4: we're back. 247 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 3: You know, you were part of this conspiracy to create 248 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 3: conspiracy Theoris John said. You were convicted of being a 249 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 3: go between between Russian oligarchs to manipulate the US political system. 250 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 3: And now you've come out on the other side and 251 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 3: you're basically telling the truth. What was your personal journey 252 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 3: from there? 253 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 4: The truth? 254 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: My only true conviction with that, And I am sorry 255 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: and I apologized to is. You know, I had a 256 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: business twelve years ago. It was supposed to be an 257 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: insurance company anti fraud people to be able to get 258 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: money back if they invested in the company. And that 259 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: turned out to be fraud. And that's the company Rudy 260 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: Giuliani stole half a million dollars from that never never 261 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: even got investigated from. Yeah, I made mistakes. I lied 262 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: to my I mean I had six shareholders. They were 263 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: all my friends. You know. When I say lied, you know, 264 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: it's not like I like to them to steal money 265 00:11:58,360 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: from I like to them because I tried to build 266 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: a business and do the right thing, thinking I'm doing 267 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: the right thing. Was it wrong? Absolutely? And I admitted it, 268 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: and I will pay back all the money. And I'm 269 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: glad that I had a chance to reflect because back 270 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: then I wouldn't think that what I did was wrong, 271 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: but today I could admit it. As far as the 272 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: other charges, I mean, let's go over them. My first 273 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: charge was getting rid of a US ambassador with co 274 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: conspirator and that Peede sessions that got dropped because they 275 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: didn't want to bring Trump and everybody else. Then they 276 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: superseded me, and they superseded me with election fraud. So 277 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: let's go into election fraud. So one of the charges 278 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: was saying that I lied to the FEC. Why is 279 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: it consider aized because I got found guilty of election 280 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: frauds so automatically because my statement to the FC is 281 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: considered false, which I never liked nobody. I told them 282 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: the true story that we had a real company, which 283 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: they tried to say was a shell. The reason why 284 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: they said that I was putting Russian money into elections 285 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: was because my partner, Ego, was the main source of 286 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: getting this money and we were putting it in and 287 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: Ego had businesses all over the world. He would have 288 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: Russian money, Ukrainian mush, Israel, America and Africa. He sold milk, 289 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: import exported baby milk all over the world. So in 290 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: his accounts, all that money was intermingled, and out of 291 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: that account money went to Ron DeSantis and other you 292 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: know congrahat Donald Trump. They didn't want to do nothing 293 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: with Trump Ukraine. Nothing. All they tried to do is 294 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: push the narrative that you know, we were trying to 295 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: get rid of the US ambassador. And that's embarrassing because 296 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: you're telling me and you guys worked for the CIA, 297 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: our Service, Intelligence Services, the FBI, CIA and everybody's a 298 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: lot better than that. They don't and especially the Southern District. 299 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: You're gonna tell me they did all of the investigation 300 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: arrested me and then dropped that charge a month later, 301 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: and then started another investigation just to be able to 302 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: make sure that I get convicted, and don't they don't 303 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: have egg in their face. 304 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 4: And why have you decided to tell the truth now? 305 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: I start telling the truth after my arrest, right before 306 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: the impeachment, after I got rid of Trump's lawyers John 307 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: Dowd and Kevin Downing and hired my lawyer, Joe Bondi. 308 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: We had met my wife and him. I remember in 309 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: his office having a heart to heart and he told 310 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: me that you can't do this half assed. Either you're 311 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: all in or you got to just keep your mouth shut. 312 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: And we spoke about pros and cons and I looked 313 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: at my wife. I said, I want to be able 314 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: to look at my kids in their eyes one time, 315 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: and my grandkids and be able to say I did 316 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: the right thing, that I was on the right side 317 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: of history, you know, And I'm not going to keep 318 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: quiet no matter what the cost is. And that's when 319 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: I chose to go on Rachel Maddow and do that 320 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: interview because my lawyer wouldn't allow me. The Southern District 321 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: was very pissed at me because I want to tea 322 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: but I knew I had to get up there and 323 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: put it on the record what was going on. Even 324 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: if that time people thought I was crazy because I 325 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: had no proof. Everything was sealed. But now if we 326 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: look it back four years afterwards, every single thing I said, 327 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: and just like in the words of Jamie Raskin, they said, 328 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: if Left Partners was able to testify in the first 329 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: impeachment of Donald J. Trump, we wouldn't be here today. 330 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 4: Here's more of that interview with Rachel Maydow. 331 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 8: In terms of the information the allegations against Vice President Biden, 332 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 8: mister Schokin makes allegations against mister Biden. Mister Lutsenko also 333 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 8: makes allegations against mister Biden. Do you believe that those 334 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 8: allegations were true. 335 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: When we were dealing with it, when I was in 336 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: the middle of the thick of things, I think I 337 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: was kind of and I I keep saying, it's like 338 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: a cultish, uh environment, uh, being around President Trump, because 339 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: I mean, like I've been in DC for two years, 340 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: I've never left the Trump Hotel type of a situation. So, uh, 341 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: I truly believed seeing different information that was handed to 342 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: us at that time that uh Joe Biden was doing 343 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: something illegal. Uh, not so much Hunter Biden, but more 344 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. But after analyzing all the evidence and sitting 345 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: back and really what's it called understanding what's going on? 346 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: I don't think the I don't think Vice President by 347 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: did anything wrong. I think he was protecting our country 348 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: and uh getting rid of probably a crooked uh uh 349 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: attorney general and uh people use this uh to their 350 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: advance and a lot of rich people in Ukraine have 351 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: their own agenda and they use us here for their 352 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: own political stuff. So I think this was a big one. 353 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 2: So what's next? I mean, obviously in this day and age, 354 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: especially if you're dealing with maga folks, is they could 355 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: be quite angry and violent. Are there threats against you? 356 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: Yeah? 357 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 2: So what's the next next steps with this? And how 358 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: do you protect yourself? 359 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: First of all, my first protector is guid Almighty himself. 360 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: He has a mission for all of us, and I 361 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: really believe that he'll do the right thing and protect 362 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: me in my family. But obviously I have to get 363 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: security eventually, once I start getting out of the road 364 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: and start I have a lot of things planned to 365 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: have a documentary coming out with Rachel Maddow and Adam 366 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: McKay and Billy Corbin and Alpha Spelling this summer. I 367 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: think a lot of the truth is going to get out, 368 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: and we'll put a lot of pressure on these criminals 369 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: like Trump, Juliani and some other people in Congress there 370 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: run because it's not just Trump. We need to clear 371 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: house of all of the cancer. It's not you can't 372 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: just cut out a little, you have to cut out 373 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: the whole thing. And that includes the Marjorie Greens, the 374 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: tailor is that Jordan's. The list goes on. And also 375 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: I have some things in the works I can't go 376 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: into right now. It's a little bit secretive, but I 377 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: think you'll all be happy and surprised that the next 378 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: six seven months until the elections, I'm going to be 379 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: very busy on the road in front of Trump. 380 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 3: Before we go, I just got to ask, so we 381 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 3: all watch Rudy Giuliani. I don't know self destructing unless 382 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 3: you're on Fox right right self? What's it like to 383 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 3: work with the guy? I mean, you hear all these 384 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 3: things like he drinks too much and the hair dye 385 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 3: and the women and what's the mess? 386 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 4: Is all there? 387 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: No, it's a sad story. He has nobody. Yeah, I mean, 388 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: he has no relationship with his kids, no relationship with wives. 389 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: His best friend passed away several years ago. The only 390 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: people around him he has. The people there try and 391 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: get something out of him, and he knows it. And 392 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: that's the life he lives. And he's a lonely man. 393 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: Drinks a lot. Sold her soul to Donald Trump because 394 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: he's a fame hug. That's his drug of choice. Not 395 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: he not drugs, but fame. The story is going to 396 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: be written where you know, Rudy Giuliani, he's not going 397 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: to be known as that patriot hero. It's gonna be 398 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: a sorry story of the man that could have been 399 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: somebody but then turned out to be a treason, this 400 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: criminal that ended up behind bars. And the fitting part is, 401 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: you know he's going to end up behind bars in 402 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: the rico charge, the same ricostutions law that he used 403 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: to put so many people away. So, I mean it's 404 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: poetic justice. I guess in Rudy Giuliani's life. 405 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 3: What's the relationship with you? Him and they seem to 406 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 3: have the special bond. 407 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: No, they don't have a special I mean that's the 408 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: crazy part. Trump doesn't respect them, doesn't give him the 409 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: time of day. He uses him when he needs him, 410 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: abuses him, and screams at him when he messes up, 411 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: lets him come at certain events, keeps him away in 412 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: certain places. It's weird, I mean. And the weird part 413 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: is that Rudy would always talk about him getting paid 414 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: from Trump, that he's going to get paid from Trump, 415 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: but Trump would just never pay him. Pay everybody else, 416 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: but wouldn't pay Rudy. You guta also understand. Trump blames 417 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: ru on a lot of things, Like you know, one 418 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: thing he blames Rudy for is that he never took 419 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: the attorney general job and he had to give it 420 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: to Sessions. And that's how the whole rushing gate started. 421 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: And so you know, it goes all the way back 422 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: to there. And then certain fuck ups that Rudy did, 423 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: drinking a little bit, going on TV and Fox and 424 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: making certain statements, remember with the money he did give 425 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: them money didn't And remember Rudy drinks and Trump knows it, 426 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: and he doesn't respect people to drink. And Rudy has 427 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: been drunk more than one time in front of Trump 428 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: and than the White House. So but Trump excuses that 429 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: and looks the other way because Rudy is that you know, 430 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: not even useful of it, but that dieharded it. That 431 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: he knows that when also is done, he'll could turn 432 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: to Rudy and Rudy will go and try and make it. 433 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: Rudy's his Roy Kohen, but not the Roy Cole because 434 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: Roy Colm he he respected man right like exactly exactly 435 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: and effect right. You know, Royquohan would have got him 436 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: out of them peachment. Rudy got him into the impeachment. 437 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: So again, all of these guys knew what's going on. 438 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: It was all a political ploy to get Trump back 439 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: in the office and to do anything they can to 440 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: get Bided out. And that's all this is about. But 441 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: the extent that they went to where they've divided our 442 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: country to where we're literally at war with each other, 443 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: where you can't You're scared to go to work because 444 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: you don't know who your boss is going to be 445 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: and what you could say because you could get fired. 446 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: You're scared to go to school because that you feel 447 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: that you have to be scared of what you say 448 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: to your classmates. I mean, kids are involved in these politics. 449 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: I mean it is crazy you know, the message that 450 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: he's trying to push along is one that you know, 451 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: the only places I've heard it are places like Russia, 452 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: places like communist countries where the past and it's scary 453 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: and and you know, the only thing we could do 454 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: is keep getting the Nazi Germany Nazi. I hate to 455 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: say that, I always want to say it, but I'm 456 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: glad you said, Jerry, because that if we look at history, 457 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: Hitler was not hated. He was looked up as a bride, intelligent, 458 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: somebody that has ideas. So these people they're chameleons. They 459 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: do what they do to get to the power. Once 460 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: they get that power, then the true colors come out. 461 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: Difference between like a Hitler and like a Putin and 462 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: Trump Trump, we see it Trump, we know it. We 463 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: don't have to guess it. I mean it's there. We've 464 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: seen his actions, we know the history. How better we 465 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: hear him talking, if you hear his rallies that he 466 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: goes on. It's not about policies, it's not about united 467 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: in a country and being the president for all. It's 468 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: all about division. It's all about we're going to get him, 469 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: We're going to put him away, We're going to take 470 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: it over. We're going to destroy It's scorched, earth, burn 471 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: and fire. That's why I believe he's not going to win, 472 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: because everybody I speak to is so scared and thinking. 473 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine that American public will actually 474 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: nominate a president that is indicted and than looking at 475 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: eighty eight charges and has tried to start in insurrection. 476 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: I don't believe it. And Nikki Haley really showed us. 477 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: He showed us that there's a division inside of the 478 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: Trump camp. Even though she lost, there's thirty forty percent 479 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: inside the Republican Party there are won't vote for Trump. 480 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: So I mean, he has a long way ahead of him. Unfortunately, 481 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: it's going to be allowed and dangerous, and the scary 482 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: part is, mark my words, the actions we're going to 483 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: see from Vladimir Putin come this summer. 484 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 2: We got to take a break now and we'll be 485 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 2: back in just a minute. 486 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 4: All right, we're back. 487 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 2: Well, I was going to mention one thing too. You 488 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 2: mentioned you were in Moscow when the when the tanks 489 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 2: came out and everything. I was in the embassy then, 490 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 2: and I was working with a young Marie Ivanovitch, who 491 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 2: was a state to prominent officer. 492 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: Oh my god, first. 493 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 4: Tour, you were there when the tanks were there, right, 494 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 4: were you? 495 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 2: Like? 496 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: Same inside the building and I was, I was right 497 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: there on then it was called Gordikovskaya Natsirskaya, It was 498 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: gordy Kovskaya, the street, it was right the Hotel Moscow, 499 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: right on the Red Square, right next door. So now 500 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: it's the Gholm. I think I think they have their 501 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: underneath or something. 502 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 2: I think it's all fancy now. 503 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I haven't been back a long time. It's 504 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: been a while. 505 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 2: We'll go to that when Putin's gone. 506 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, til then I can't go back. 507 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 4: No, no, don't love. 508 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 3: It isn't often we get to hear firsthand from someone 509 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 3: who was involved in and contributing to, and actually creating 510 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 3: a conspiracy theory. People should hear you out and make 511 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 3: up their own minds. I think we can all agree 512 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 3: that fax and truth should win out in the end 513 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 3: whatever they are. So best to you and take care. 514 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you very much, thank you, thank you. Guys. 515 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,479 Speaker 3: Let's bring in our August stage mentor Adam. 516 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 7: Hey, guys, I am very excited to ask a lot 517 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 7: of questions about lov partners and what he tells us 518 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 7: about how active measures work. 519 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: So, Adam, what's your impression of Lev and what he 520 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 2: had to say. 521 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 7: I'm really interested in LEV Partners because he's probably our 522 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 7: best view into what really happened between forces supportive of 523 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 7: Putin close to Putin and Russia, and the Trump campaign 524 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 7: and Trump himself. To me, what I find so interest 525 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 7: saying is it's at once real proof that something massive 526 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 7: has happened, that there really are people in Moscow, either 527 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 7: directly directed by the Kremlin or with clear thumbs up 528 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 7: from the Kremlin, trying to manipulate our politics. So the 529 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 7: idea that there's a Russia hoax is just thrown out 530 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 7: the window by LEV Partners. At the same time, there's 531 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 7: something so lame and sketchy about It's so unsophisticated, John, 532 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 7: you ran the Russia desk at CIA? Is this how 533 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 7: active measures work? With like kind of sketchy like I would? 534 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 7: I don't know. I have in my mind some sophisticated, international, 535 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 7: cultured figure who's very cleverly manipulating, And here it's you know, 536 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 7: it's kind of thick necked, thuggy types. 537 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 2: When you talk about covert action or these kind of 538 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: things that the Russians or we might do. For example, 539 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: there's two different kinds. There's ones that they might have 540 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: cooked up to come up with somewhat sophisticated or clever 541 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: plan to execute against the Western United States, and then 542 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 2: there's taking advantage of opportunities. And so I think in 543 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 2: this case, when Rudy Julie he was running around Ukraine 544 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: looking for any kind of dirt on someone running for 545 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 2: president the United States, it was just an opportunity for 546 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 2: the Russians to take advantage of. And it had been 547 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: going on for quite a while, and so this in 548 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 2: a sense, this wasn't a very hard thing for the 549 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: Russians to play in. They didn't have to be terribly sophisticated. 550 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 7: But you'd think it was more opportunistic that they just 551 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 7: they were doing a lot of things and this one 552 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 7: kind of fell in their lap and it was thrown 553 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 7: into their lap, thrown into their lab. 554 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 555 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, but Adam Andre Denktajh, who is the US has 556 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 3: has gone after for being a disinforma agent agent of 557 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 3: Russian intelligence. He was sitting with Rudy Giuliani feeding him 558 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: this stuff, and sitting next to them was Lev Parnas. 559 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 3: So not only do you have evidence, you've got an 560 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 3: actual witness who watched it all go down. And Rudy 561 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 3: Giuliani was a useful idiot, a witting dupe. He knew 562 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 3: that Derkosh was a Russian malign influence, Russian intelligence officer, 563 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: and dealt with him anyway because he was getting what 564 00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 3: he wanted. 565 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 7: Remind me to give me a list of all the 566 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 7: agents you worked when you were CIA officers, all the 567 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 7: foreign agents. 568 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 4: No, we'll put that online for everybody. Yeah. 569 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 7: Yeah, But I guess that's the other side of this 570 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 7: that if you're going to go undercover to uncover the mob, 571 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 7: you're going to have to act like the mob. So 572 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 7: did you, like, I don't know what you can say, 573 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 7: but did you deal with kind of sketchy marginal figures 574 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 7: who happen to have close connections? Is that like typical 575 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 7: of spycraft. 576 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: So there's two different kinds of things that we're calling intelligence. 577 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 2: There is intelligent collection, like having sources inside to give 578 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 2: you insights and secrets that regime is trying to hide 579 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: from the United States to help our plylies maakers. Then 580 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 2: there's doing things, taking action to try to create problems 581 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: or create issues. And that's what we're talking about here 582 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 2: with the Russians. They were trying to do anything they 583 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 2: could to mess with the United States electoral system. And 584 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: so when we're trying to recruit a source who we 585 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 2: want to be secret and hidden and in place for 586 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 2: years providing intelligence to us, that's done with much more care, 587 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: trying to find exactly the right people. We have strong 588 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 2: motivations that can protect themselves, that can follow our direction. Now, 589 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: if our job is in a war zone or trying 590 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 2: to influence, you know, an election of another country, you 591 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 2: might use people for a shorter period of time for 592 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 2: a specific need. And so in this case, you know, 593 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 2: Rudy Giuliani just put this out there for the Russians 594 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: to see. Okay, there are people in the American political 595 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: establishment who are looking for dirt on other people in 596 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: the political establishment. This is a clear thing that we 597 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 2: can use to create chaos and problems to side the 598 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 2: United States. So in that case, you don't necessarily need 599 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 2: to be looking for boy scouts. You need to be 600 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 2: looking for someone who can just fulfill your short term need. 601 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 7: But for the long term stuff, you want someone you 602 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 7: can rely on because you're not with them all the time. 603 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 2: You're not, you can't get them arrest You don't have 604 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: to get them arrested. It creates a political problem. 605 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 3: All these things, and it's important for people to know. 606 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 3: We don't just collect information. We spend almost as much 607 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 3: time verifying that information. You get one source who tells 608 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 3: you something, you just don't go, oh, that's true. You know, 609 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: you try to find documentary something that bakes it up, 610 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 3: or another source who says, oh, that's true. 611 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 7: So what surprised you did you learn from Lev? 612 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the first things that surprised me is 613 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: that the people who are involved in a conspiracy, you know, 614 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 2: Rudy Giuliani and Lev Parnas and others that were trying 615 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 2: to create a fiction that Joe Biden's involved in some 616 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: horrible criminal conspiracy that you know, they then left those 617 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: people out to dry. And so it was similar to 618 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 2: the earlier things where the Trump people left Michael Cohen 619 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 2: and others who were part of the conspiracy. Then they 620 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: treated them poorly, and then those people turned on that. 621 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 2: You shouldn't be surprised by that. So Lev Parnas is 622 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 2: one of these He was in the middle of this 623 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: for all of this time, and they left him hanging 624 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: out to dry. He went to prison, and when he 625 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 2: came out, not surprisingly, he turned on them and was 626 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 2: telling the truth about what was happening. If you're a 627 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 2: criminal mastermind, you should find a way to treat the 628 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: people who are working for you better for criminals in 629 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 2: the future. This is something you can learn from. 630 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 7: The word that I came to use to describe the 631 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 7: Trump organization when I was reporting on the Trump organization 632 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 7: was a platform that it's it's definitely not an organization. 633 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 7: The way it worked. Did you have Donald Trump at 634 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 7: the center, and then you have a bunch of staff members, 635 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 7: Alan Weiselberg and others kind of around him and their 636 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 7: full time job is just appeasing him. But then you 637 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 7: had this outer ring and probably a few different outer 638 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 7: rings of Tony's. But like freelance scumbags, I mean, they 639 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 7: were just people who were kind of traveling the world, 640 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 7: ginning up opportunities, who sort of had an either official 641 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 7: or unofficial license to use the Trump name and bring 642 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 7: deals to the boss. It feels like things you would 643 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 7: see on The Sopranos, someone coming up to Tony Soprano 644 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 7: and saying, hey, I just figured out this union scam 645 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 7: or whatever, and it wasn't like, you know, there was 646 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 7: like a strategy like oh, let's do this, this and this. 647 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 7: Michael Cohen became really deep inner circle and actually achieving 648 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 7: deals in Republica, Georgia and elsewhere. He tried really hard 649 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 7: to get this Russia and Kazakh projects going and failed. 650 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 7: And so you just have this kind of these tentacles 651 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 7: out there of entrepreneurial kind of gray area of the lob. 652 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: Folks. 653 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 7: This is great, guys, Why don't we talk more about asiology? 654 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 7: I think that if what you want is more seriology, 655 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 7: just email. It's Jerry o'shay at. 656 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 2: If this kind of exciting banter is what you look 657 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 2: forward to, tune in next week for Mission Implausible. 658 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 4: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry o'shay, John Cipher, 659 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 4: and Jonathan Stern. The associate producer is Rachel Harner. This 660 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 4: has been a 661 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 3: Production of Abominable Pictures, an honorable mention for iHeart Podcasts.