1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk about mindfulness these days, which 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: is fantastic. I mean, we all want to be more 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: present and self aware, more patient, less judgmental. We discuss 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: all these themes on the podcast, but it's hard to 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: actually be mindful in your day to day life. That's 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: where Calm comes in. I've been working with Calm for 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: a few years now with the goal of making mindfulness 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to 9 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: help you build positive habits, shift yourself, talk, reframe your 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: negative thoughts, and generally feel better in your daily life. 11 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: So many incredible options from the most knowledgeable experts in 12 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: the world, along with renowned meditation teachers. You can also 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: check out my seven minute daily series to help you 14 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: live more mindfully each and every day. Right now, listeners 15 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: of On Purpose get forty percent off a subscription to 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: Calmpremium at Calm dot com Forward slash j that's Calm 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: dot com Forward slash jay for forty percent off. Calm 18 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: your Mind, Change your life. 19 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: Do you remember how stigmatized it was. No one talked 20 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: about it. Could you imagine telling your boss you were 21 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: struggling with your mental health. People did have so many 22 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: misconceptions about meditation that they thought it was either religious 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: or connected to the counterculture, or sit for hours and 24 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: hours in an uncomfortable position, and we just wanted to 25 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: let people know that that is not true. You can 26 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 2: literally start with one mindful. 27 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite 28 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: you to join this community to hear more interviews that 29 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All 30 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. 31 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, 32 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go 33 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. 34 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: It means the world. 35 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: To me, the best selling author and host the. 36 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: Number one health and wellness podcast and Purpose with Jay Shetty. 37 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one 38 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every 39 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, 40 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: and more healed. Thank you so much for tuning in. 41 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: It means the world to me that our community is 42 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: growing every single day. It's amazing so many of you 43 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: listening to multiple episodes a week, even more than the 44 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: new ones that come out, and it honestly, honestly means 45 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: the world to me. Thank you so much. Today's guest 46 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 1: is a very special friend, someone that I've known for 47 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: five years now, maybe even a bit longer. We've been 48 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: in each other's orbit for longer than that, for sure, 49 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: and I can't believe we haven't had this conversation on 50 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: the podcast before. So please join me in welcoming Michael 51 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: Acton Smith, the co founder and co executive chairman of Calm, 52 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: the leading mental wellness brand with the number one app 53 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: for sleep, meditation and relaxation. Calm has grown to over 54 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million downloads and was Apple's twenty 55 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: seventeen App of the Year and is the world's first 56 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: mental health unicorn. Michael is fascinated by neuroscience, flow states, 57 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: and mental fitness, and it's passionate about spreading meditation as 58 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: a simple but valuable skill around the world. Please welcome 59 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: to the show, my friend, an incredible human, Michael Acton Smith. Michael, 60 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: thank you so much for. 61 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: Being here, So happy to be here. Thank you, Jay. 62 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: I know I can't believe it's taking this long, and 63 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: we were both remembering I think it was probably like 64 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: seven years ago, six seven years ago where you had 65 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: a lot of your friends and people in your community 66 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: saying you had to meet me, and I had everyone 67 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: in my community saying I had to meet you. And 68 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: then we had a lunch at my first apartment in 69 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: la in twenty eighteen and we were just talking about that, 70 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: and it's so wonderful that I feel so grateful to 71 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: be the chief Purpose Officer at CARM and that came 72 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: from the relationship we built up. And I always say 73 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: that to people when people see partnerships like this, I 74 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: always say to people that actually came from just a 75 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: partnership and a friendship behind the scenes with one person, 76 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: and it's evolved into this incredible thing. I love the 77 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: Calm family and I'm so grateful to be a part 78 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: of it. 79 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: Oh well, the feeling is very mutual, you know. I 80 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: think building a partnership that has foundations in friendship and 81 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: years of getting to know each other, I think makes 82 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: it much much stronger. So your impact at Calm has 83 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: been phenomenal. The Daily Jay is just brilliant. 84 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: I would honestly say it's the content I'm most proud 85 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: of that I create because the team that I work 86 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: with in order to curate and research and build what 87 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: we do. We have so much fun. I want to 88 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: give big shout o to Ben big Shower, Chris. We 89 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: have just You've developed such a phenomenal team who's so 90 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: conscious and thoughtful and innovative and creative and not scared 91 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: to push the boundaries too. And it's an amazing balance 92 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: to have that where everyone's so thoughtful yet so innovative. 93 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: And I think that's it's been amazing. I was just 94 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: talking about last year I went to the Calm Retreat. 95 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 3: I didn't. 96 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: I didn't I missed this year is but I went 97 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: last year And what I was really moved by is 98 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: everyone who's part of your team has a Calm story. 99 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: So for everyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, 100 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: I was doing a Q and A with David the 101 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: CEO on stage, and we were doing this Q and 102 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: A and people would stand up and ask me questions, 103 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: but they would share their Calm story. And everyone who 104 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: worked there had this really emotional, really powerful personal story 105 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: of how Calm has helped their family, or their friends 106 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: or them And I was nearly in tears, like a 107 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: couple of times because some of those stories were really emotional. 108 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: It's so meaningful to being a company. Where as you say, 109 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: everyone has a story, a reason, a purpose for being there. 110 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: It's so much more than a nine to five job. 111 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 2: And you can feel that, and obviously you felt that 112 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: when you came and when you're surrounded by hundreds of 113 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 2: the Calm team, it's very very special. You were such 114 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: a big hit. You know, a year on, people still 115 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: talk about it. You were doing selfies and chatting long, 116 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: long into the night, meeting every single person and listening 117 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: to those stories. So thank you for that. 118 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: No, of course, and Michael, I want to dive in 119 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: with you because you know what, I think what you've 120 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: done for the world through Calm is truly remarkable. Like 121 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: I think it's historic. It truly is, you know. I 122 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: think it's really interesting because today technology has become the 123 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: way to serve humanity, and therefore we don't often think 124 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: about cultural shifts in the same way because they're through technology. 125 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: Almost feels a bit robotic or a bit more kind 126 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: of organized, and so we don't realize just how powerful 127 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: these things are because we'd see numbers, but we don't 128 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: see the deep transformation. But Calm has helped and transform 129 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: so many people's lives. When you set out to popularize meditation, 130 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: did you ever imagine that it would have the impact 131 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: it has today? 132 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: No, No, it's been an extraordinary journey. Alex Chew and 133 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: I set the company up a little over a decade 134 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 2: ago and we were living in Soho. You know, Soho, London. 135 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: Obviously it's not the most calm place in the world. 136 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 2: It's full of all the best restaurants and bars, incredible 137 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: energy and passion. And we lived in a house and 138 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: we'd play video games at night, talking about business and ideas. 139 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: And I remember Alex saying to me he'd heard about 140 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 2: this domaining that was available calm dot com. And we 141 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 2: press pause and I was like, Wow, say that again 142 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 2: calm dot com and I got goopumps and just thought, 143 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: what an incredible word, what an incredible brand we could 144 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: potentially build. We felt that the world could have been 145 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,119 Speaker 2: because we lived in Sohope, but we felt the world 146 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: needed more calm and it was just getting more anxious, 147 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: more stress. And so that was the starting point. And 148 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: as I say, it's been a one extraordinary journey. How 149 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: was that available, Well, it wasn't available at go Daddy 150 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: for ten dollars. Sadly, it was owned by a chap 151 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: in Sheffield in England, and it was offered to us 152 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: for about a million pounds, I think, and both of 153 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: us were like, no, that's a ludicrous amount of money. 154 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: We could never afford that. And about a year later 155 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 2: he came back to us and we were able to 156 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: get it for a much lower amount, still quite expensive. 157 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: I was going to use the money to put a 158 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: deposit down on a house, and we decided to buy 159 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: a domain name with it instead, which my parents thought 160 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: was a rather strange move, But we just thought there 161 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: was magic in that word, and we felt. Alex had 162 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: been meditating for many, many years. He was teenager who 163 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: was very interested in consciousness and meditation and breath work, 164 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: and so he was a little more into this than 165 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: I was, and he brought me along. But I felt 166 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: that we could build almost like the Nike of the mind. 167 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: Could we take mental health, Could we take meditation and 168 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: mindfulness and simplify it, make it more accessible, sprinkle in 169 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: a little bit of magic and joy and bring it 170 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: to billions of people. Because these practices have been around 171 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 2: for thousands of years, pretty much every culture and religion 172 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 2: has something similar, but it wasn't clicking, it wasn't resonating 173 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: with society, and there was so much unnecessary suffering. There 174 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: were so many issues, and we felt this could be 175 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: a very very powerful area to explore. So that was 176 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: the little acorn that Calm blossomed into. 177 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: H Have you meditated today? Michael? Did you meditate this morning? Today? 178 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: I take some days I'm not able to do the 179 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: daily calm for ten minutes and instead I take three 180 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: mindful breaths before I leave the door. So that was 181 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 2: what I did this morning. 182 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. No, And I think that's what's really 183 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: interesting about the way Calm's approached meditation. And I saw 184 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: this obviously from an outside point of view until we 185 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: joined forces, But when I was observing what Karm was doing, 186 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: I was really really admiring it because I felt it 187 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: took such a broad minded view to meditation, which I 188 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: actually think meditation is as a practice. So even though 189 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: you're saying you've simplified it and made it more accessible, 190 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: which I agree Calm has, I actually think that is 191 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: how meditation should be and is in reality when you 192 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: even look thousands of years ago, it was far more 193 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: easy and accessible. It wasn't this mystical thing. And it's 194 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: almost like as things come into the modern world when 195 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: they're older, we just kind of put this tag on 196 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: them as being vintage or mystical or unknown. But the 197 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: truth is that it was a part of society. It 198 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: was a part of the way kids were raised and 199 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: what they were taught at school. And so what even 200 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: gave you the perspective to say, we feel that we're 201 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: going to take this broad minded view to meditation, Like 202 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: you started with like sleep tales and stories. And when 203 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: I saw that, I was like, this is genius because 204 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: so much meditation, especially of the past in my tradition too, 205 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: from my Monk time, is storytelling. Like so many meditations 206 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: are based on stories. And I think that the modern 207 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: day became about like being still and being silent. But 208 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: you had this really broad minded view. How did that 209 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: evolve and where did that come from? 210 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: Yes, so there were two big step changes in the 211 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 2: early days where we saw a big, big increase in 212 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: usage and audience. The first was when we introduced the 213 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: daily Calm. You know, Tamara was our first teacher. She 214 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: was just phenomenal, credible, She is so good, but Before that, 215 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: we just were encouraging people to meditate, listen to the 216 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: same content every single day. That's hard. People are busy 217 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 2: sitting down and it just wasn't connecting with people. And 218 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 2: the beauty of the Daily Calm is that it's different 219 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 2: every day and humans like variety and they like storytelling. 220 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: As you say, and Tamara would leave everyone with a 221 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 2: beautiful quote, it would be memorable. People actually started instead 222 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: of thinking of it as a chore every morning, people 223 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: would look forward to it. They talk about what they 224 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: learned in the Daily Calm, and they'd share it in 225 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: the Daily Calm community and so these ripples started to grow. 226 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 2: So that was a big early shift. And secondly, the 227 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 2: sleep stories. You know, we were looking at the data 228 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: and we realized that a lot of people were using 229 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: Tamera's beautiful voice to fall asleep at night, and we 230 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: were like, no, no, no, that's not what that's not 231 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: what you're supposed to do. So we thought, what if 232 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: we could create stories. We could take the bedtime story 233 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: that's been around forever, sprinkle a little magic on it, 234 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: and create the sleep story. And so people think, oh, 235 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: they're boring tales, they bore you to sleep, But it's 236 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: not like that at all. There's a lovely curve of interest. Way. 237 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: You start in an engaging way. Your mind is probably 238 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 2: whirring away with a lot of other things, and you're 239 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: intrigued about this story. And then we mix in music 240 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: and sound effects, and the voice generally gets softer, the 241 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: pacing between the words get longer, until before you know it, 242 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: you're fast asleep. And sleep has been such a big issue, 243 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: so many people knock themselves out with alcohol or sleeping pills, 244 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: and this is just a delightful, joyful, simple way of 245 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 2: drifting off every night. And it's now actually the biggest 246 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 2: part of the app because meditation, again is not straightforward. 247 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: Everyone goes to sleep every night. Eight billion people, that's 248 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 2: a pretty big market to look after. 249 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, and it's such an important part of 250 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: our life to solve, right, Like, I think you know 251 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: the importance of sleep. 252 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 3: When was it? 253 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: When did you find that? Not only of course eight 254 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: billion people are going to sleep, but when did you 255 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: find that, Like you look at the studies on how 256 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: important sleep is for our health and well being, Like 257 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: how early did you kind of realize that was an 258 00:12:58,520 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: issue you wanted to. 259 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: Solve Matthew Walker's book Why We Sleep came out a 260 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 2: few years ago, and I think society had a big 261 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: awakening excuse the past, at that point around sleep, because 262 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: before then there was this view in society that you know, 263 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 2: I'll sleep when I'm dead. The lack of sleep you 264 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 2: got was almost a badge of honor in the workplace. 265 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 2: And I think very importantly that has changed. People get 266 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 2: it now. It's not just part of your health and wellness, 267 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: it's a foundation. So we were a little bit before 268 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: Matthew Walker's book came out. We just felt a sense 269 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 2: that there was something really, really key here. And then 270 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 2: one of the big elevations there was bringing in talent 271 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: and celebrities. For years, we'd been trying to get Hollywood 272 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: interested in recording some content within Calm. We were knocking 273 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 2: on doors and no one would answer. And eventually Guy 274 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 2: and Ashton from Sound Ventures, they were one of our 275 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: early investors. They introduced us to Matty McConaughey and he 276 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 2: used Calm for one of his charities in Texas and 277 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: we said, Matthew, would you called a sleep story for us? 278 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: And he said, sure thing, and oh, he's got such 279 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: a good voice. Very very popular. So some of the 280 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: earliest talent we had on the app was acton my 281 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: sister Stephen Frye Jerome Flynn from Game of Thrones. So 282 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 2: the talent coming onto Calm suddenly made this practice and 283 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: talking about your mental health and meditating and mindfulness. It 284 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: popularized it. It made it almost cool, and so that 285 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: really helped the growth accelerate dramatically. 286 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: No, it's fantastic, And again I was watching all of 287 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: that from the sidelines at the time and just thinking 288 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: how genius it was because to me as well, it 289 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: was making meditation accessible and relevant, as we've already said, 290 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: but it was putting it into a language and a 291 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: voice that people could understand, could relate to, could connect to, 292 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: could see as entertainment. 293 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: Almost entertainment is a really good example. It seems strange 294 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: to talk about this beautiful, ancient practice as entertainment and 295 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: mental health is a very serious subject. But as we know, 296 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 2: if you want to connect with people, if you want 297 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: to get their attention, make something joyful, make something entertaining. 298 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: The fastest way to connect with another human being is 299 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 2: through a smile. And so we thought, could we not 300 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: take ourselves too seriously? Could we have a little bit 301 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 2: of fun with this, and we did, and so several 302 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: examples over the last few years. You know, we have 303 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: a brilliant person working with our PR team, Peter, who 304 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 2: came up with the idea of creating barbar Land around 305 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: the time of Lala Land the film, and he said, 306 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: what if we credit a movie eight hours long of 307 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: sheep grazing in a field? And it was very calming 308 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: and peaceful, And we did a premiere with red carpet 309 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: in London and had sheep walk down and we got 310 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: so much publicity and attention for it. People loved it. 311 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 2: Then when GDPR came out, you remember the legislation are 312 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 2: very very serious and dare I say a little bit boring. 313 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 2: We got someone to read it as a sleep story 314 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: and we got loads of pr for it falling Asleep 315 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 2: to GDPR. So we did a lot of these kind 316 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: of quirky, unusual little ideas, and that PR again made 317 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: people go, wow, maybe I'll check this out, maybe this 318 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: isn't so weird, and woo woo this could be for me. 319 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: Yeah it's I mean, I love it and it's so genius. 320 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: But at the same time, like you said, there can 321 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: be the view, and I've definitely talked about this before 322 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: they can be the view there it's like, well, this 323 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: is such an ancient, sacred practice, and like how can 324 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: you make it so you know, how can you make 325 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: it so silly or so one would say silly or 326 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: clever or genius, or how can you make it so frivolous? 327 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: And it's really interesting because that perspective I think has 328 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: of course validity, and there's great thought behind that. But 329 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: I think what I've gained or learned over time is 330 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: that people starting their journey of meditation, meeting people where 331 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: they're at, meeting people where they're starting with their struggle 332 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: with their challenge, is so much more compassionate and loving 333 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: and kind than it is to force someone to adopt 334 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: a practice that they may never adopt or may think 335 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: is so alien to them that they'd never have a chance. 336 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: And I've always said that to people, like real, it's 337 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: not a technique, it's actually compassion and empathy, where it's 338 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: like I understand where you are, I understand that, and 339 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: I think about myself in that way. Where as a 340 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: young kid growing up in London, the amount of times 341 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: I laughed or was making fun of someone trying to 342 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: get me to meditate when I was younger, because it 343 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: was just bizarre. It's like, I just want to go 344 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: and drink and have a good time, Like I don't 345 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: want to think about meditation. But maybe if karm had 346 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: been around when I was younger, then it would have 347 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: been an easy place to start for me, and that 348 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: would have been the beginning of my journey. And of 349 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: course karm has evolved so much since. But yeah, how 350 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: have you kind of tackled that opinion, because I'm sure 351 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: you've faced that so much. 352 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 2: Very much so in the early days, when we'd go 353 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 2: to parties and tell people we were building a meditation, 354 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: we'd get one of two reactions. One is that they'd 355 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 2: back away from us and make any excuse to go 356 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 2: and talk to someone else. The second was that they'd 357 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: be like, oh, I've heard of that, I've tried it, 358 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 2: but I can't do it. You know, my mind is 359 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 2: far too busy. And it has been extraordinary how that 360 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 2: has shifted over the last decade. Again, this is connected 361 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 2: to mental health. Do you remember how stigmatized it was. 362 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 2: No one talked about it. Could you imagine telling your 363 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 2: boss you were struggling with your mental health. Years ago, 364 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 2: it wouldn't have been a good move, and for most 365 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: organizations now that has changed dramatically. I think it was 366 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: because people did have so many misconceptions about meditation, that 367 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: were so many myths associated with it. I think they 368 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 2: thought it was either religious or connected to the counterculture. 369 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 2: They thought they might have to dress up in robes, 370 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: or go to a different country, or sit for hours 371 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 2: and hours in an uncomfortable position, and we just wanted 372 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: to let people know that that is not true. You 373 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 2: can literally start with one mindful breath if you don't 374 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,959 Speaker 2: have time to meditate for a minute or ten or longer, 375 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 2: literally start with one conscious, mindful breath and then build 376 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 2: your practice from there. 377 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. 378 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: No, and I think that I'm hoping that, and I 379 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: mean we know it from the fact of the amount 380 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: of people that have taken up to it and it's 381 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: been the beginning of their meditation practice and just where 382 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: it's gone from them as well. But for you, what's 383 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: it been like building the business of it, because that's 384 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, obviously it's been over ten years now, and 385 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that it's really interesting when you're building a 386 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: meditation business, it doesn't mean you're not immune to burn 387 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: out and stress, true pressure, and that includes the team, 388 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: includes you, includes There's so many things that come up 389 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: in business that don't help you be mindful, or on 390 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: the contrary, where mindfulness can really help as well. 391 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 3: So talk to us about that balance. 392 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 2: Yes, So Alex and I love business, you know, we 393 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 2: love startups, taking crazy ideas and putting them out into 394 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: the world. So this has been such a joy to 395 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 2: work on. But even though we practice what we reach 396 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 2: and we've learned a huge amount from Calm and this journey, 397 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 2: we're not immune. And during the pandemic, we both really struggled. 398 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: We were running the company over Zoom. We were on 399 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 2: Zoom for ten twelve hours sometimes more, every single day, 400 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 2: and we were based in Europe. The team was over 401 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: in the US, so there was time zone challenges as well, 402 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 2: and we just started to feel it. We felt it 403 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: in our bodies, you know, we weren't moving around as much, 404 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 2: we felt it in our minds. We were just tired 405 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: and stressed and exhausted. So that was a very, very 406 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 2: challenging time. And we're both in a much sharper and 407 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 2: more energized place now, but that was a very tricky 408 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: part of the journey, and it was one of the 409 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: reasons why we both decided to take a new role 410 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: and bring David in as the CEO, who was absolutely brilliant. 411 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 2: We bought his company, Ripple. One of the reasons was 412 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 2: we wanted to move more into healthcare. You know, healthcare 413 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: in the US is a trillion dollar industry and a 414 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: very small proportion of that is spent on mental health 415 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 2: and that is changing rapidly, and so Ripple was a 416 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: healthcare company, so that helped. But we also just wanted 417 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: to get back both of us to what we love most, 418 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 2: which is the zero to one phase, that messy, chaotic, creative, 419 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: wonderful part where you're building something that has never existed 420 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 2: in the world before. And we weren't able to do 421 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 2: that when we were on Zoom for twelve twelve hours 422 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 2: a day. We were doing you know, twenty twenty six 423 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 2: financial planning and feedback with team members, and it was 424 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 2: it was not lighting us up. We could do it. 425 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 2: We can run hundreds of pers people company, but I 426 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: think in life you have to focus deeply on what 427 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 2: you are really really good at. So a few sleepless 428 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 2: nights before handing over the rains to David as CEO, 429 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 2: but I can honestly say it's been one of the 430 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 2: best things I've ever done, and I think Alex feels 431 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: the same. So we are both now co chairman, so 432 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: we're still involved very deeply in a new way. But 433 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 2: because we love business and creativity so much, we're now 434 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 2: running Calm Studios in London, which is fully connected to Calm, 435 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: but it's where we can dream up the future. Where 436 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 2: is the put going, what is the future of mental health, 437 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 2: and what is the future products and services of Calm. 438 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 2: So that's what we're deeply involved in at the moment. 439 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's so exciting and it's such a beautiful 440 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: example as well of just how detachment works even in 441 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: business and knowing when it's okay to let go of 442 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: something to create more space for something else. And it's 443 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: interesting because you can talk about that, but to do 444 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,959 Speaker 1: it in a practical sense when you're building, you know, 445 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: the first mental health Unicorn and building one of the 446 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: biggest mental health and sleep apps in the world. To 447 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: then go, actually, we don't want to work on this 448 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: part anymore. We have we believe in it, we care 449 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: about it, but we actually want to focus on the 450 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: future again and that you know, you've made it sound seamless, 451 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 1: but I can imagine that's very challenging because you know, 452 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: I think we get attached to roles, we get attached 453 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: to titles, we get attached to journeys. And we talked 454 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: a lot about this when I was coming on with you, 455 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 1: and it was the same for me, where I had 456 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: a lot of people in my business and my world 457 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,959 Speaker 1: saying to me like, Jay, you should start up your 458 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: own app, and why would you partner with the Calm 459 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: and why would you partner with anyone? And you know, 460 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: we had other apps that were reaching out to us, 461 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: and I saw all of that. I think we talked 462 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: about this very openly, and I said, I saw that 463 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: if I went down that path, it would have been egotistic. 464 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: I would have done it for my ego, not for 465 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: what I actually want for the world. And what I 466 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: saw you doing was so aligned with what I'd want 467 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: to do for the world. I was like, well, wouldn't 468 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: I join forces? Like isn't that what my meditation practice 469 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: would want me to do? Where collaboration would be better 470 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: than competition if you're trying to achieve the same goal 471 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: for society, and so it's really interesting how for me 472 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: at least, I'm always looking for how am I still 473 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: acting out of the same old mindset even though I've 474 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: been meditating for years. Am I still pulled by that? 475 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: Or am I able to be self aware and say okay? 476 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: And that was, you know, one of the biggest reasons 477 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: why I came on at Calm, because I was like, 478 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: this is a mission I believe in. Obviously, I'm friends 479 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: with the team, love getting to know David now, he's fantastic, 480 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: and I'm like, Okay, I want to work for the 481 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: world with people that I love and care about, for 482 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: people that I want to serve and help, as opposed 483 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: to live for my ego. And I'm guessing there's a 484 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: bit of that. And when you go, yeah, I'm not 485 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: going to be CEO anymore, even I've built this thing 486 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: from scratch, but now I'm going to start again, I'm 487 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: guessing there's a bit of detachment there. Would you Is 488 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: that accurate or how would you put then? 489 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 3: Your words? 490 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 2: Very very accurate. And I think what you're saying is 491 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 2: about focus as well. We can't do everything in life, 492 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: you know, you like us get asked to do a 493 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: lot of different things, and you have to get good 494 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: at saying no and know what is the elements that 495 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 2: really light you up. What are the areas where you 496 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 2: can have the biggest impact. And I think focus is 497 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 2: so important for anyone listening wanting to build something new. 498 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: Figure out what that is and don't be worried. If 499 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: you're not quite sure what that is, take your time 500 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 2: to find it. You know, I use this phrase you 501 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 2: want to create something new, take a step back. Often 502 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: if you have the chance. Not everyone has the luxury, 503 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: but if you have the chance to go away on 504 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: your own for a few days, clear your head, get 505 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 2: into a new space, a new environment, and then marinade 506 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 2: yourself in the areas that you're intrigued about. And what 507 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: starts to happen is you start connecting dots that you 508 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 2: might not have seen before. You know, watch documentaries related 509 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: to what you're thinking about, read books and autobiographies, chat 510 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 2: to people who are expert in this area, and suddenly 511 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 2: the light starts to become brighter and it becomes clearer 512 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 2: what you need to do now. That often doesn't happen, 513 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 2: you know, over a few days, It can take weeks, 514 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 2: sometimes years. Every time I've started up a new company 515 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: or a business, there's been a huge amount of work 516 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 2: before day one, just thinking and planning, and then you 517 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 2: just have this very strong foundation that you can build 518 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: your skyscraper on top of. Calm. Was that case from 519 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: the very early days. We did a lot of research 520 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 2: and a lot of thinking, but our mission was to 521 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 2: make the world happier and healthier, and it stayed exactly 522 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: the same over this last decade. 523 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: You know, I love hearing that because and I love 524 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: your advice on stepping back, you know, to kind of 525 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: really understand what you're trying to do. And I love 526 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: the idea of you saying that it could take years. 527 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: I think the challenge has become that today because we're 528 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: living in a world where there's so many successes, and 529 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: there's so many more success stories in our generation that 530 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: people were scared to start because they're scared if it 531 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: won't be big enough, or it won't be Like when 532 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: I started creating content, I wasn't even aware that it 533 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 1: could get a million views, Like, I didn't think about that. 534 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: I was happy with one hundred views or one thousand 535 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 1: views at one point because I didn't have a false 536 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: marker in the same way with business, Like I don't 537 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: think most companies that today have a billion dollar valuation 538 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: or even billion in revenue, Like they didn't start with 539 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: knowing that that would be the case. Maybe at one 540 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: point it became a strategic plan or a focus to 541 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: get there, but that's not how they felt on day one. 542 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: And it's almost like not having that pressure was better 543 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: because then you were able to and shift and change 544 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: and not stayed so tied. And I think today we're 545 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: I mean, Calm was always meant to be a meditation app, 546 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: I guess, and now it's so much more. It's a 547 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: sleep app. It's got you know, like you were just saying, 548 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: now like there's now the daily move right, there's so 549 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 1: much more happening on the app that's not meditation, and 550 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: that comes from being open and curious. And so how 551 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: do you encourage people. I think there's so many people 552 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: listening right now, and they may be like, Michael, I 553 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: want to start the next app, or Jay, I want 554 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: to start the next podcast, or I want to build 555 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: this Like you've given some really great insight, but I 556 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: personally feel there's too much pressure for what you build 557 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: to be big. 558 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 3: And that's sexually what ruins it? 559 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 2: Yes, very very good points. So we live in this 560 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 2: culture where it just looks like there's overnight successes everywhere. 561 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 2: We're surrounded by people who are who are smashing it, 562 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 2: and the reality is every one of those people have 563 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 2: been on a journey and they've spent a long time 564 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: getting to that point. So first of all, do the 565 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 2: deep work, as I just mentioned, do your research. There's 566 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: no shortcuts, and there patience is incredibly important. Accept and 567 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 2: understand that you're going on a journey and you're not 568 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: going to crack it and be on front of magazines, 569 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: you know, in the first week or year, maybe not 570 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 2: even in the first decade. But if you believe deeply 571 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: in what you're doing, if it you know, is deeply ingrained, 572 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 2: and you've done that that foundation work, then you'll put 573 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 2: one foot in front of the other and you'll get 574 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: there eventually. And it's often said that compounding is the 575 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 2: eighth wonder of the world in financial terms. It's true 576 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 2: in self development and building a business and growing ourselves, 577 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: it doesn't happen overnight, and so being aware of that 578 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: and being ready for that long journey, I think is 579 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 2: very very important. 580 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that time that it takes to 581 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: master something so that it becomes world worthy. Almost to speak, 582 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: it's almost like a law of the universe that when 583 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: you've put in that much time and energy and effort 584 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: and diligence, it's likely to succeed. But it's just the 585 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: patience that it takes to put in that ten years 586 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: of mastery or whatever it may be for a different skill. 587 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: Like you just kept saying that there's no shortcuts, there's 588 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: no easy way through that. 589 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 2: And I think one of the other challenges is people 590 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: will see success around them and hear about a story 591 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 2: or a type of business and then go and build it. 592 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 2: Like a good example is there are now thousands and 593 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: thousands of meditation and mindfulness and sleep apps and headspace 594 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: and calm, and a handful of others were there first. 595 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 2: The problem is if you're building something because you're seeing 596 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 2: it everywhere in society, you're going to be too late. 597 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 2: I often talk about the analogy of surfing, when you're 598 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 2: trying to catch that wave. If you're hearing about something 599 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 2: in society, the wave is already broken and those surfers 600 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 2: are far off into the sunset. That's why you've got 601 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: to do that work up front and figure out which 602 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 2: wave is building in the distance, what's coming closer and closer. 603 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 2: You also don't want to be too early because you'll 604 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 2: freeze to death before the sun comes up and bought 605 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: that wave ever gets to you. So timing is so crucial. 606 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 2: But when you catch that wave when you're ready, it's 607 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 2: an extraordinary thing. And then, as I say, the compounding 608 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 2: takes place. And we were very fortunate with our timing. 609 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 2: And it was tricky in the early days because, as 610 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 2: I say, no one was really talking about mental health, 611 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 2: thought or mindfulness. It took about half a decade before 612 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: we were able to raise our Series A investment. But again, 613 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: we had that very deep conviction that this was eventually 614 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: going to happen. We just needed that patience and we 615 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 2: were building day by day, step by step, and then whosh, 616 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 2: it's been holding onto the rocket ship ever since. 617 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: So would you say that that process because I love 618 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: what you're saying then, and I think it reminds me 619 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: of something that Rick Rubin was saying when he was here, 620 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: and you know, he was talking about from a music 621 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: point of view, but creating art and even with you, 622 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: you are you're a great business Meerson, and you know 623 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: that's such a You've built companies before this as well, 624 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: like you have a successful track record. But at the 625 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: same time, whenever I talk to you, and this is 626 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: I think why we get along as well, is because 627 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: you're an artist at heart and you're a creative at heart, 628 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: I feel at least, and what I'm hearing is that 629 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: there's it's almost like you have to be so like 630 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: when you talk about surfing, I'm terrible at surfing. I've 631 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: only tried it once. 632 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 3: Me too, by the way, Yeah, yeah, I was gonna 633 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 3: ask you. I was like, you sound like a throw 634 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 3: right now. 635 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: But when you think about surfing and you think about it, 636 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: it's being so aligned with nature and being so aware 637 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: and you're so present and conscious about the air and 638 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: the wind and the wave. And as you're describing it, 639 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: it's almost like you've got to be so in tune 640 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: to really know when to catch that wave. You're almost 641 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: talking about it as if it's an intuitive art, like 642 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: there's some can you expand on that for us? Because 643 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: that's really beautiful And I think we almost talk about 644 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: it through all the externals, like where's the industry going 645 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 1: and where's this? And that does work for sure, But 646 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is actually far more of 647 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: an artist conversation. 648 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 2: And yes, so surfing is a very mindful activity. You 649 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 2: know you're out there in nature and balance is important. 650 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: So so many different connections with meditation and mindfulness, and 651 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 2: I feel that analog works with business as well. You 652 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 2: can analyze stuff until you're blue in the face and 653 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 2: look at every chart and projection, and sometimes you just 654 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 2: have to step back and feel into it. What's the intuition, 655 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 2: what is your God instinct telling you about this opportunity. 656 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 2: I listen very carefully to my mind and my body 657 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 2: at four am in the morning. That's a great signal 658 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: when I'm waking up, and it alerts me to opportunity 659 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: and trouble as well. I've built many businesses that haven't worked, 660 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: and even though I may have been winning awards and 661 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 2: have been written about positively in the press, I'll wake 662 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 2: up every night at four am and my body will 663 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 2: be saying, ah, this isn't working. Listen to me, and 664 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 2: you can ignore that voice for only so long. So 665 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 2: I think business is this just beautiful mix of data 666 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: and analysis, very very important. But when you combine it 667 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 2: with magic and creativity and intuition. The center of that 668 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: ven diagram, I think, is where the biggest, most exciting 669 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: opportunities are built. 670 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, what are some of the learnings that are coming 671 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: out of Calm Studios. I'm fascinated now. 672 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 3: As soon as you mentioned that, I was like, Oh, 673 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 3: that's amazing. 674 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: I want to know what's happening there, Like, Yeah, what 675 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: are some of the key learnings or the key kind 676 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: of curiosities that have already stemmed from that work. 677 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: Well, next time you're in Soho, you must come and it. 678 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have to. 679 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 2: And it's a tiny space. You wouldn't think this is, 680 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: you know, Calms. It's very scrappy. We're are barely a 681 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 2: one pizza team. There's Sam and Ennis and Steve and 682 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 2: me and Alex and we're just having an absolute blast. 683 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 2: So we've been thinking very carefully, as I say, about 684 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: this marinating process and thinking deeply. We've been exploring a 685 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 2: lot of different ideas. Psychedelics is such a fascinating area 686 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 2: and I think we could talk about that for hours 687 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: and hours. I won't, but you know that that could 688 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 2: hold a huge amount of promise for how we treat 689 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: and support people with mental health. You know, there's still 690 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 2: a lot of research and science that needs to take place, 691 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: but there's very early positive signs. So we explored the 692 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: idea could Calm step in and work here, and I 693 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 2: think that maybe something for the future. We've looked at 694 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 2: going offline. Calm has one hundred million downloads, but not 695 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 2: that much presence in the physical world, and there's nothing 696 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 2: quite like looking in someone's eyes or being in the 697 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: same space with them. So how can Calm sharp there? 698 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 2: Could it be physical products, Could it be events and 699 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 2: parties and creating communities around the world in different cities. 700 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 2: Could it be a resort one day, you know, the 701 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: most relaxing calm resort in the world. So we've explored 702 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 2: that a little bit. But where we've kind of settled 703 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 2: and where we're going deep at the moment is an 704 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 2: area that has really caught the attention over the last year, 705 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 2: which is artificial intelligence. Now, obviously GAI has been around 706 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 2: for decades, it's you know, we've had the deep learning 707 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 2: revolution over a decade ago. Chat GPT caught the attention 708 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 2: last December, so everyone's buzzing about it now. But we've 709 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 2: been thinking about this for quite a bit longer and 710 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 2: asking the question, how can these incredibly powerful silicon brains 711 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 2: support our beautiful and fragile human brains. How can AI 712 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 2: help humanity? So many many different ways we're tackling that. 713 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 2: Could AI be an amplifier and augment mental health professionals? 714 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: Could it help on board patients? Could it provide support 715 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 2: twenty four to seven when you're not with a human therapist. 716 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 2: The average time it takes to see a therapist in 717 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 2: the US is about six or seven weeks when you 718 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 2: need support. That's way too long. So could there be 719 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 2: an intermediate step? And if you think of mental health 720 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 2: as falling on a spectrum, apps like Calm are fantastic 721 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 2: at the healthier end, but as you move into the 722 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: sort of amber and orange and middle end, therapy becomes 723 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 2: more valuable. But there's a big gap between an app 724 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 2: like Calm, which is very proactive, and seeing a human therapist. 725 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 2: Could AI play a role in that center point? So 726 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 2: there's many different paths we're exploring there. I'm very curious 727 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 2: to know what your thoughts are of AI, because I 728 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 2: imagine you've had many many conversations on this. 729 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: I think we have a similar approach to things where 730 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: I try not to get lost in the kind of 731 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: negative news that stems around any new discovery, because I 732 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: think we kind of do it constantly, and sometimes I 733 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: find we make it harder to find usefulness and solutions 734 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: through new technology that's happening anyway, as opposed to we 735 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 1: get so distracted by like, well, these are the issues, 736 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: and this is what's going wrong, and this is where 737 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: it's going to destroy humanity, etc. And I think that 738 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: those kind of headlines kind of steal the show and 739 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: they distract us from saying, well, actually, this is happening anyway, 740 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: whether you like it or not. It already exists. How 741 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: can we now make sure that as humans we are 742 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: benefited by it and that it helps us and supports 743 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 1: us by analyzing the potential challenges and coming up with 744 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: solutions rather than going, oh god, it's the same thing 745 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: we did with the Internet. I'm sure it was the 746 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: same thing that was done with TVs back in the day. 747 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: It was the same thing we did with social media, 748 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: and it's kind of tiring because we kind of still 749 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: having those same conversations and I'm like, look, no one's 750 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: going to stop using social media. No one's going to 751 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: stop using their phones. Let's stop talking about that as 752 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: the ultimate solution to helping. 753 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 3: People with this. And the same with AI. 754 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: People are using chat, GPT already, and like you said, 755 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: a I's been around, so I think when I think 756 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: about AI, I personally think about it in a similar 757 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: way to your saying. So, I've always wanted the idea 758 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: of people to have a coach in their pocket. So 759 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: if people were able to get not only reminders, which 760 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: is what our phones do already, but the reminders that 761 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: you have to put in. But I've always had this 762 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: feeling of like if your body could notify your coach 763 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: of what you need without you knowing it, and then 764 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: your coach could then prescribe you with there was content, 765 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: food recommendations, diet recommendations, supplement recommendations. It would make it 766 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: so much more seamless and easy, because I think for 767 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 1: so many of us we don't actually know how we 768 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 1: feel and unless you're looking at data and unless you're 769 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: looking at what's actually happening in the body. So to 770 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: give you an example, for me, a couple of years ago, 771 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: I was feeling fatigue and low energy and I couldn't 772 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: figure it out because I thought I was sleeping well, 773 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: I thought I was eating well, and I thought I 774 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: was working out. So I was doing all the right stuff. 775 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: And it was only when I got my vitamin D 776 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: levels checked where I realized that my vitamin D level 777 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: was at a ten. Supposedly healthy is around sixty, and 778 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: like great is like one hundred, and I'm at ten 779 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: and I'm living my current level of lifestyle just two 780 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: three years ago. And without that piece of data, I 781 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't have known what the problem was and I would 782 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: have diagnosed the problem is, well, maybe there's something going 783 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: wrong up here. Maybe I'm not working out enough, maybe 784 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: I'm not eating enough greens that you just make stuff up. 785 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: And so I think a data level approach that AI 786 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: could help measure, but then AI could help find solutions 787 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: for to me is very exciting because I think when 788 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: humans are left to diagnose their own issues, I think 789 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: we cause more issues and cause more stress, and stressing 790 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: about stress is we both know is not healthy. So 791 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: I love the gaps that AI can fill. So I've 792 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: been testing a Nutrisens glucose monitor just because I've been 793 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: fascinated by glucose levels and how keeping steady glucose levels 794 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: is healthier for us. And so I had the monitor 795 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: in me for a couple of weeks. I'm going to 796 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: put the new one in soon. And while I was 797 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: testing it, I could see where if I ate like 798 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: and I was eating, I was back in London. So 799 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: I was back for my sister's wedding in London. I 800 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: literally got back two days ago. And when I'm back 801 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: in London, I'm eating much unhealthier than when I'm in 802 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: LA And I still went out and find found a 803 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: no sugar cereal gluten free or whatever. I was trying 804 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: to be really help and I had it and it 805 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: still spiked my glucose into the bad levels. And I 806 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: was thinking I would never have known that because eating 807 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: it I felt fine. And so I think if AI 808 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: could help us monitor, measure and then navigate solutions, which 809 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: includes meditations, which includes sleep monitors, whatever it may be, 810 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: I think it's incredible what could happen, especially to make 811 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 1: it affordable. Yeah, And that's what I get excited about, 812 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: is making it affordable, which Calm has always been at 813 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: the forefront of that, like making things affordable and accessible. 814 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 2: Well, I love what you're saying because it's very similar 815 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 2: to what we're thinking at Calm Studios. You know, one 816 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 2: of the questions we've asked ourselves is could we build 817 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 2: the world's greatest health coach? What would that be? And 818 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 2: as you say it, you know, having a human coach 819 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 2: is the best, the gold standard, but that is not 820 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 2: cheap and not widely distributed. So having a coach in 821 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,919 Speaker 2: your pocket twenty four to seven that you can chat 822 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 2: to whenever you want, nudging you, motivating you, inspiring you. 823 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 2: And here's the interesting thing. The AI will get to 824 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 2: know you better than yourself. It will see your health 825 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 2: kit data, it will ask how you're feeling every day 826 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 2: and then start making fascinating inferences and connections and surprising 827 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 2: you on a day to day basis. So you know, 828 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 2: I think it was Socrates that said, many many years ago, 829 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 2: know thyself, and AI can help you really know yourself. 830 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 2: But that's only one part of the puzzle. And I 831 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 2: think one of the problems with AI at the moment 832 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,240 Speaker 2: is it's very logic driven. One of the foundation models 833 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,439 Speaker 2: we've been so impressed with is what Inflection have built PI. 834 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 2: I don't know if you've had a chance to check 835 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 2: out Pie, it's beautiful if GPT four is IQ, pie 836 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 2: is more EQ. It's like chatting to a really thoughtful friend. 837 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 2: It asks you questions, it keeps the conversation flowing. It's 838 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 2: very compassionate and empathetic. And that's the essence that we 839 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 2: want to capture with what we're doing. And the other 840 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 2: thing to say here is that interface is so crucial. 841 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 2: You know. GPT three was released I think in about 842 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, but it didn't capture the imagination. It was 843 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 2: only when the Rapper of Chat came about that people 844 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 2: suddenly were able to connect with it and talk about 845 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 2: it and make it more accessible and simple, kind of 846 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 2: like we did with with meditation back in the day. 847 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 2: So we're asking ourselves. Having a great AI health coaches 848 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 2: one step, but what do we build around it? Could 849 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 2: we create something that is set in a universe with 850 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 2: a vast array of characters. Could there be storytelling, Could 851 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 2: there be music and magic? Could we add a gamified element. 852 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 2: You know, look at Duolingo and what they've done to 853 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 2: make learning a language fun and enjoyful. And as we 854 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 2: said at the beginning, if you can make anything fun 855 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 2: and entertaining, that's how you cut through the noise. And 856 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,839 Speaker 2: get people to pay attention. So I think that's one 857 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 2: of the big shifts we're thinking about at Calm Studios, 858 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 2: and we think for this next evolution of Calm, because 859 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 2: one hundred million downloads is great, but there are eight 860 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,760 Speaker 2: billion people in the world. There's a lot more people 861 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 2: we want to connect with and reach. 862 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: These are the kind of conversations that I love too, 863 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: because because it's so exciting trying to figure out and 864 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,959 Speaker 1: by the way, I want to remind everyone that, look, 865 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: you know, Michael said it earlier too. If you can 866 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: get a physical coach, if you can get out in nature, 867 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,320 Speaker 1: if you can get out there and you know, play pickable, 868 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: which I'm doing a lot of right now, like whatever, 869 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: it is like those things are never ever not going 870 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: to help, right being outdoors in nature, like listening to 871 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: nature sounds for real, but like Calm, you know, I 872 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: use nature sounds on Calm all the time. I'm not 873 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: always in a space where I can access nature sounds, 874 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: like I can't always be in a rain for us 875 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: or ever. And being able to have it digitally is helpful. 876 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: And I think that's what we're saying here, where it's 877 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: like if you can do things physically, of course, do them, 878 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: don't stop doing them. Like it's important to talk to 879 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: a real friend, it's important to talk to a real human. 880 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: But for everyone who's struggling or those things are not 881 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: immediately accessible. That's where I think why we've seen such 882 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,320 Speaker 1: a rise in the digital world, because we are looking 883 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: for alternatives and we are looking for support. And I've 884 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: definitely found that the collective approach of data and human 885 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: has been really powerful for me personally. Like I've found 886 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: in my own personal mental health journey, i still need 887 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,359 Speaker 1: to talk to my best friend three times a week, 888 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,879 Speaker 1: which I don't stop doing. But at the same time, 889 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: I do need to measure the quality of my sleep, 890 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: my glue cose, my vinomin D levels, whatever it may be, 891 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: because they're equally affecting how I feel on a daily basis. 892 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's well putink. I think the key is 893 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 2: awareness and understanding, and this is what developing a mindfulness 894 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 2: practice does. Attention is the most valuable resource in the 895 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 2: twenty first century, but our attention is dragged in so 896 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 2: many different directions. It's so easy to go through life 897 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 2: like a marionette on the strings of the puppet master, 898 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 2: not being consciously aware of what's going on. But if 899 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 2: you can catch yourself, if you can build it a 900 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 2: practice and know where your attention is going, you can 901 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 2: put it where you want. So you can spend time 902 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,359 Speaker 2: in the digital world and on social media and watching 903 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 2: Netflix and all these things that do bring value to 904 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 2: our life, but you catch yourself and don't overdo them 905 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,480 Speaker 2: and suddenly find yourself three hours later after using TikTok. 906 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,720 Speaker 2: And so I think having that sense of control, knowing 907 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,720 Speaker 2: what's going on your mind, knowing where you're consciously putting 908 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,879 Speaker 2: your attention and how you're feeling, and striking that right 909 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,240 Speaker 2: balance is a superpower in our modern society. 910 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:19,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think what we're trying to do here, 911 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: which I think is key, is trying to create alternatives 912 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 1: for viewers or listeners on the platform that we're on anyway. Yes, 913 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: Like people are often ask me, well, Jay, you're making 914 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: social media content, and I'm saying yes, because we're going 915 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 1: to be on social media anyway, So why not give 916 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: people another option to have something that hopefully is educational, 917 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: entertaining and insightful that can benefit their life. And so 918 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: same way as you're saying, I love the idea of 919 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 1: looking at you know, I mean AI is already able to, 920 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: but especially with the EQ version. You're saying there with PI, 921 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 1: like AI is able to write movie scripts and TV 922 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: show scripts and conversations scripts, and it's going to be 923 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: able to. It is already able to, but going to 924 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,760 Speaker 1: be able to do so many things in an entertaining 925 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: way to find a way that people can almost go 926 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,839 Speaker 1: on a unique journey that was tailored, made for them 927 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: that I always yet asked when I coach clients, Everyone's like, so, 928 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,920 Speaker 1: what's your program? And I'm like, the program's unique for 929 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,320 Speaker 1: every client, because you can't take everyone on the same program. 930 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,960 Speaker 1: The fact that you could have a tailor made, unique 931 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: program for you and visuals and universes and experiences could 932 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 1: be created is quite crazy and phenomenal to think about. 933 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: Like right now, we're just used to suggested for you, 934 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 1: but imagine suggested for you in the metaverse and suggested 935 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 1: for you landscapes, places to visit, people to know, It's 936 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,359 Speaker 1: quite remarkable to think how personalized it could get. 937 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, we think it's going to be very, very exciting 938 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 2: combining all these things together. So yeah, we're having a 939 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,000 Speaker 2: lot of fun at CARM studios, And I just want 940 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,320 Speaker 2: to jump back to what you said on social media, 941 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,839 Speaker 2: because social media gets a really bad rap in our 942 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,879 Speaker 2: society and there's a lot of people that are very 943 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,279 Speaker 2: stressed about it, and it does cause a lot of 944 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,880 Speaker 2: anxiety and polarization in society. But there's a lot of 945 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,319 Speaker 2: joy in social media as well. Again, when you take 946 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 2: to it consciously. You know, I've met some wonderful friends 947 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 2: through social media. Incredible business opportunities have flowed from it. 948 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 2: It can be really joyful and entertaining. But again, it's 949 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 2: about using it for you instead of against you, being 950 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 2: very aware of how you're using it, dipping in and out. 951 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 2: If you're on social media mindlessly scrolling late at night 952 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 2: before you go to bed, that's not ideal. If you 953 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 2: dip in and out every now and then, that I 954 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 2: think is a much more powerful way of doing it. 955 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,240 Speaker 2: And you can apply this to most things in life. 956 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 2: You know, stop, pause, take a deep breath and think 957 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,279 Speaker 2: is this helping me? Is this serving me? And that 958 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,359 Speaker 2: fraction of a second can completely transform and change your life. 959 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: I guess that's it, though, Michael, Like you just hit 960 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: the nail on the head there, and that is the 961 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:06,600 Speaker 1: ultimate human skill of being conscious. It's almost like being 962 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 1: selective about where you are, why you're there, and how 963 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,720 Speaker 1: you want to interact with this person. App technology, space, 964 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:21,880 Speaker 1: But being conscious seems to be the ultimate lesson because, 965 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: like you just said, that doesn't just apply to social media, 966 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,839 Speaker 1: applies to everything. How do we help people develop that? 967 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: Because that's how I feel like I you know, I 968 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: often talk about it with people as well. This idea 969 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 1: that envy has always existed, social media's just amplified it. 970 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,040 Speaker 1: Ego has always existed. Social media has just put a 971 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,680 Speaker 1: magnifying glass on it. The desire for competition. 972 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 2: And status and all of these pursuits that we have, 973 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:50,879 Speaker 2: they've always been there. 974 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: Like I remember at school, it was what trainer you 975 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,759 Speaker 1: are to school or sneaker you are to school? Made 976 00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 1: you the cool kid. Now you just post your latest 977 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 1: sneakers on Instagram. It's the same thing. And so it's 978 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: just amplified it, and it's exposed you to far more 979 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: people's trainers. Right, like the idea that back in the 980 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 1: day of there were twenty kids in the class and 981 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,879 Speaker 1: there's twenty kids in the playground. You know, I had 982 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,320 Speaker 1: high techs on because my parents didn't buy me Nikes. 983 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 1: And then so it was like I had high texts 984 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 1: that person had Addas or Adidas, that person had Nike 985 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,560 Speaker 1: or Nikes, and that was the competition. Whereas now you 986 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: can see three million kids shoes and now you feel 987 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,440 Speaker 1: two million and nineteen seven on the list as opposed 988 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,640 Speaker 1: to twenty third, And so the exposure has gone high, 989 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: the scale has increased, but the problem has still remained 990 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: the same, that we don't know who we are, we 991 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: don't know where our self worth and our confidence comes from, 992 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 1: and we're not conscious about our choices. 993 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:50,360 Speaker 3: Like that is the. 994 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,879 Speaker 1: Route, at least in my opinion, How have you thought 995 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 1: about answering that question for people? Because that is the 996 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:57,360 Speaker 1: real problem. 997 00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 2: It's the fundamental question, isn't it. And it's what we're 998 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,920 Speaker 2: trying achieved through calm. It's what you're doing with your work. 999 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 2: You know. Sam Harris talks about it as waking up. 1000 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,120 Speaker 2: It is becoming more aware and more conscious. So developing 1001 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,840 Speaker 2: a mindfulness practice helps you know. One of the things 1002 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 2: that I think has been very useful from doing it 1003 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:21,759 Speaker 2: is this idea in life of responding instead of reacting 1004 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,680 Speaker 2: to stimulus. Stuff happens constantly throughout the day, and if you, 1005 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 2: instead of from the amigdala reacting, someone cuts you up 1006 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,839 Speaker 2: in traffic and you honk your horn and suddenly you're 1007 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,520 Speaker 2: miserable and angry all day. If you pause for a 1008 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 2: fraction of a second and think more thoughtfully and respond, 1009 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 2: it changes everything. You can still get angry and honk 1010 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,840 Speaker 2: your horn, but you're more aware you're doing it. I 1011 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,279 Speaker 2: think this is really important interpersonal relationships as well. So 1012 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 2: many triggers and little things that can cause arguments and 1013 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,480 Speaker 2: stress with our partner, but I think pausing and thinking 1014 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,760 Speaker 2: before responding is so so valuable. So that's one step. 1015 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,720 Speaker 2: But there isn't an easy answer. Human beings are complex things, 1016 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,680 Speaker 2: and even though we know what we should do, even 1017 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 2: though everyone loves the idea of being more mindful and meditating, 1018 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,840 Speaker 2: one of the challenges, very few people sit down and 1019 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,000 Speaker 2: do it and build it into a healthy habit every 1020 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,319 Speaker 2: single day. And so this is why what we're doing 1021 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,440 Speaker 2: at Calm is a is a lifelong journey, you know, 1022 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:24,879 Speaker 2: decades of work ahead of us. 1023 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,279 Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I think it's also just 1024 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: I really would love for everyone to step back and 1025 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:38,480 Speaker 1: look at their decisions and choices thus far in life 1026 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:43,000 Speaker 1: and ask themselves why they chose those things and what 1027 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: was their value behind that choice, and almost kind of 1028 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,319 Speaker 1: go backwards as far as you can and figure out 1029 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: what made you do something, and most people will track 1030 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:59,600 Speaker 1: it back to parents' society or hopefully some of the 1031 00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,319 Speaker 1: things will be things that they really value. And it's 1032 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,920 Speaker 1: almost like, how can you edit everything to be living 1033 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,600 Speaker 1: your life based on what you really value so that 1034 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,840 Speaker 1: there's as little noise and as little distraction from the 1035 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,880 Speaker 1: outside world or force as you're saying responding to something's 1036 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 1: happening as opposed to this is who I want to be, Yeah, 1037 00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: and this is how I want to live my life. 1038 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,840 Speaker 1: And that's not an easy practice. And I'm not saying 1039 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,759 Speaker 1: that that will solve everyone's problems. But I know that 1040 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,520 Speaker 1: you've talked about calm in healthcare, which I fully agree with, 1041 00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,920 Speaker 1: and I love that direction. I was really passionate about 1042 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,040 Speaker 1: that happening. How hard has it been to talk about 1043 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,640 Speaker 1: calm in schools or calm for kids or where's that conversation? 1044 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,799 Speaker 1: Because I know that that's something we've talked about before, 1045 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:42,719 Speaker 1: and I think we'd both be passionate about it. 1046 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 3: How hard is that to make happen. 1047 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 2: Well, again, that's a long journey, but it shifted a 1048 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,239 Speaker 2: lot in the last decade. I remember some of the 1049 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,400 Speaker 2: early conversations we had where we wanted to bring Calm 1050 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,360 Speaker 2: into schools. We got quite a bit of pushback. I 1051 00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,200 Speaker 2: think again, people thought this was a bit weird and religious, 1052 00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,520 Speaker 2: and teachers have been opening up to it and it 1053 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 2: is now in You know, thousands of schools around the 1054 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,879 Speaker 2: world start their day with silence or short meditations, which 1055 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,520 Speaker 2: is so valuable. I use this quote a lot. But 1056 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 2: if you want to change the world, as we do 1057 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 2: at Calm, start with the youngest generation. And the Dalai 1058 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,319 Speaker 2: Lama said, if we could teach meditation to every seven 1059 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 2: year old in the world, we could eradicate violence in 1060 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:28,440 Speaker 2: a generation. Pretty profound and not easy to do. So 1061 00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,440 Speaker 2: that is shifting. The problem is kids are not particularly 1062 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,920 Speaker 2: excited about meditation and mindfulness. They've got a lot of 1063 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,920 Speaker 2: other exciting things going on. So you have to, as 1064 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:40,880 Speaker 2: you were saying earlier, bring it to them and shape 1065 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,560 Speaker 2: it in a way that resonates with them. And often 1066 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,360 Speaker 2: entertainment can do that. So we just did a wonderful 1067 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,239 Speaker 2: partnership with Disney, and so Disney princesses helping kids fall 1068 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,000 Speaker 2: asleep and learn about meditation. We've worked with Pepper Pig 1069 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 2: and Moshi Monsters and a whole bunch of others, So 1070 00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,919 Speaker 2: that's been a very powerful step in the right direction, 1071 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,120 Speaker 2: and sleep has been very valuable for kids. So rather 1072 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,600 Speaker 2: than trying to get them to sit down and still 1073 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,520 Speaker 2: for a minute, which is hard enough for adults, almost 1074 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,280 Speaker 2: impossible for kids when they're going to bed, sleep stories 1075 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,319 Speaker 2: is a very mindful way, a very gentle way for 1076 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,640 Speaker 2: them to learn about this practice. 1077 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, and I'm so glad that you're 1078 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:18,400 Speaker 1: talking about it that way, because I agree you're not. 1079 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,520 Speaker 1: You know, anyone who's listening is going right now, they're 1080 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,719 Speaker 1: going I can't get my kid to see. Yeah, And 1081 00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,440 Speaker 1: so I think, you know, I love the idea of 1082 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 1: the Disney collaboration is fantastic, and I think more of 1083 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,480 Speaker 1: that is so needed, these innovative ideas of how meditation 1084 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,080 Speaker 1: and mindfulness can be presented to kids, because that's literally 1085 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:36,960 Speaker 1: all it is. And I just you know, this is 1086 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 1: a really great conversation to make that point that please 1087 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,040 Speaker 1: understand that when you're trying to make things more accessible, 1088 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,480 Speaker 1: more entertaining, more practical for people. That's the only way 1089 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,080 Speaker 1: it's going to work. Because if we keep forcing people 1090 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,040 Speaker 1: to do things in what we assume is the purest way, 1091 00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,920 Speaker 1: it may never ever be Like you're saying, like a kid, 1092 00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: when are they ever? How many kids are actually going 1093 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:00,120 Speaker 1: to sit there. 1094 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,120 Speaker 3: Exactly just breathe. 1095 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,920 Speaker 2: Meet people where they are, understand what's going on in 1096 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,360 Speaker 2: their world, and then try and create and frame something 1097 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,399 Speaker 2: that works for them. You know, for anyone listening who 1098 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,120 Speaker 2: is thinking about, you know, their big idea, what their 1099 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,719 Speaker 2: purpose in life is going to be. One thing that 1100 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 2: I found very helpful is take something that is already successful, 1101 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,640 Speaker 2: whether it's today or or in decades past, and then 1102 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,880 Speaker 2: put a twist on it, a tweak And if you 1103 00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,000 Speaker 2: look at some of the biggest successes of all time, 1104 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,960 Speaker 2: that kind of is what's going on. It's a pattern 1105 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,440 Speaker 2: that human beings have done again and again and again, 1106 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,399 Speaker 2: but with a little tweak. So it's familiar, but it's 1107 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,400 Speaker 2: got that newness and uniqueness. And if you can find 1108 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,719 Speaker 2: that art that no one else has done before, as 1109 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,680 Speaker 2: I say, lean into it, do your research, be patient, 1110 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,600 Speaker 2: and you can have a phenomenal success. 1111 00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:47,040 Speaker 3: Love it. 1112 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,080 Speaker 1: Michael, Thank you so much for this has been so 1113 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,520 Speaker 1: this has gone in so many different directions than what 1114 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:53,480 Speaker 1: we planned, but it's been so fun talking to you. 1115 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,440 Speaker 1: Oh hell, I'm so glad that we've I'm hoping that 1116 00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,120 Speaker 1: anyone who's listening and watching you've gained a bit more 1117 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 1: insight into how you can kind of tune into that 1118 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,520 Speaker 1: voice that you've got within you to be creative, to 1119 00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,520 Speaker 1: be reflective, to be introspective. And you found that you 1120 00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,480 Speaker 1: found just a bit of clarity in the direction that 1121 00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,320 Speaker 1: you need to take internally towards creating something that can. 1122 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:14,840 Speaker 3: Help the world. 1123 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,880 Speaker 1: And you can hear how it can be a business, 1124 00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:19,760 Speaker 1: it can be an app, it can be a product, 1125 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: it can be a service, it can be anything you 1126 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,680 Speaker 1: wanted to be. But you've got to be just that 1127 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:26,879 Speaker 1: timing piece. I want you to go back and listen 1128 00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:28,759 Speaker 1: to that, because I thought that was so powerful of 1129 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,520 Speaker 1: if you're really aware of the problem, and you're aware 1130 00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,600 Speaker 1: of the people you want to serve, then you'll find 1131 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,040 Speaker 1: the potential solution. But that requires stillness, It requires sitting 1132 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,719 Speaker 1: with that community and that problem. 1133 00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,080 Speaker 2: I think just to jump in here, I think you 1134 00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,000 Speaker 2: said something so important listening to that in a voice 1135 00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,319 Speaker 2: and what we're very good at human beings doing is 1136 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,839 Speaker 2: distracting ourselves. As we said earlier, there's so many distractions, 1137 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,680 Speaker 2: and we mask what we really need to hear with 1138 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 2: alcohol and drugs and Netflix and a ton of other things. 1139 00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,040 Speaker 2: How often are we really truly in solitude and alone 1140 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,800 Speaker 2: and listening to ourselves? And I would encourage anyone listening 1141 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,160 Speaker 2: to do to try and carve out time to do 1142 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,320 Speaker 2: that if you can, as we said earlier, go away 1143 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:17,960 Speaker 2: for a few days on your own, fantastic. If you 1144 00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,600 Speaker 2: can't do that, a really valuable practice. This first thing 1145 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,080 Speaker 2: in the morning, before you turn your phone on, sit 1146 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:24,960 Speaker 2: with a blank sheet of paper, you know, do the 1147 00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,360 Speaker 2: artist's way, and just scribble and think. And it's amazing 1148 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,520 Speaker 2: when you have that stillness, what starts to bubble up, 1149 00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 2: and the things you really need to hear only emerge 1150 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:37,000 Speaker 2: in that silence. 1151 00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:38,600 Speaker 3: That's beautiful, Michael. 1152 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:40,240 Speaker 1: There is anything you want to add, anything I haven't 1153 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,000 Speaker 1: asked you that's on your heart or mind or. 1154 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,120 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, we could talk for hours, Jay, but 1155 00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,680 Speaker 2: I think this was this was a pretty good time. Yeah, 1156 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:48,920 Speaker 2: this pretty good conversation. 1157 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:49,480 Speaker 1: I love this. 1158 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:50,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, so do I know? I loved it? 1159 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,800 Speaker 1: Too, because we totally got lost in a real conversation 1160 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,680 Speaker 1: and that's always the best ones. But everyone who doesn't already, 1161 00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,000 Speaker 1: make sure that you follow Michael. Michael, where should people 1162 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:01,400 Speaker 1: if they want to follow you and follow your work? 1163 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:02,560 Speaker 1: Where would you like them to go? 1164 00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,640 Speaker 2: I'm Acting on Twitter, I'm Michael Acton on Instagram. I'm 1165 00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 2: not as active on social media as I used to be, 1166 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,640 Speaker 2: but I dip in an out every now and then. 1167 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,120 Speaker 2: And yeah, just come and check out Calm and join 1168 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:14,800 Speaker 2: our community. 1169 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Thank you everyone who's been listening and watching. I 1170 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,080 Speaker 1: hope that you're going to share on social media your takeaways, 1171 00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,480 Speaker 1: your insights, something that you're playing or practicing with as well, 1172 00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,880 Speaker 1: share them with us. Tag both me and Michael let 1173 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,280 Speaker 1: us know, because I'd love to see what ideas come 1174 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,720 Speaker 1: from this. I'd love to know that this sparks some 1175 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,800 Speaker 1: creativity for you, or brought out some genius from within you, 1176 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,240 Speaker 1: or maybe just even made you take some time for yourself. 1177 00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,200 Speaker 1: And of course you can go and listen to the 1178 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,000 Speaker 1: Daily Jay on Calm or the Daily Calm on Calm 1179 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,520 Speaker 1: or any of the incredible programs that we have on 1180 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,560 Speaker 1: the platform. Come and join us and find an easy, accessible, 1181 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,600 Speaker 1: and fun and playful way of practicing mindfulness and meditation 1182 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,600 Speaker 1: in your life every single day. Thanks everyone, and thank 1183 00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,160 Speaker 1: you so much, Michael. This is wonderful. Thank you so much. 1184 00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:57,680 Speaker 2: Thank you. 1185 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,000 Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you'll and enjoy my interview 1186 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,360 Speaker 1: with doctor Julie Smith on unblocking negative emotions and how 1187 00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,240 Speaker 1: to embrace difficult feelings. 1188 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,840 Speaker 2: You've just got to be motivated every day, and if 1189 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,160 Speaker 2: you're not, then what are you doing? 1190 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,800 Speaker 3: And actually humans don't work that way motivation. You have 1191 00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:16,920 Speaker 3: to treat it like any other emotion. Some days it 1192 00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:18,200 Speaker 3: will be there, some days it won't