1 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: On a warm evening on June seven, Hector Montger heard 2 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: someone at his door and opened the door. I see 3 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: the whole FBI squad just standing there, he said, come on, 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: step out of the door. Unbeknownst to his family and friends, 5 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: Hector seven, at the time had become one of the 6 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: most notorious hackers on the Internet. The year before, he 7 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: joined the online vision anti collective Anonymous, and just a 8 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: month earlier had co founded the off shoot low sec. 9 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: With these groups, he had launched devastating attacks on governments 10 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: and businesses worldwide. He could go to prison for the 11 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: rest of his life for these crimes. And so my 12 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: mind at this moment is warning millions of miles per second. 13 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm telling you now, I had to figure 14 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: off the next move because they had me. Do you 15 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: had that I was a blowner. I was dead, you know, 16 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: I was done unless there was a way out. Hi. 17 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: I'm brad Stone and I'm Akio. And this week on Decrypted, 18 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: we're telling you the story of the former Anonymous hacker, 19 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: Hector Monsterer a k A. Sobly. Over the years, much 20 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: has been written about his cyber attacks, his arrest, and 21 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: his subsequent decision to secretly cooperate with the government. A 22 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: lot of those stories, Hector says, got the facts wrong. Today, 23 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: he's opening up about his full story about how a 24 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: kid who grew up in the projects, who didn't even 25 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: finish high school somehow came to break into the computer 26 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: systems of multi billion dollar companies and governments. Will also 27 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: trace his unlikely path to redemption. This story is divided 28 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: into two episodes. This is part one, and if you 29 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: subscribe to the show, Part two should already be in 30 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: your feed. Stay with us, Thank you. It's literally cold. 31 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: In December, I flew to New York to go meet 32 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: Hector for the first time. Actor. How's it going nice 33 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: to meet Nice to meet you two than to make 34 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: good time today. We started the day in the Lower 35 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: East Side of Manhattan by the Jacob Rees public housing projects. 36 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: This is where Hector's grandmother landed when she emigrated from 37 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico in the late sixties. She held onto that 38 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: same apartment where Hector himself lived for much of his life. 39 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: You're gonna look up to the stage for you to 40 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: see you a window with air conditioning. Okay, that's it, 41 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: And and that was in my whole life, you know, 42 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: Hector was born when his parents were teenagers. He says 43 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: his dad wasn't ready to be a father, and his 44 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: mom left the family when Hector was still young. She 45 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: was trying to get a better life. She's trying to 46 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: get out of this whole because once you stuck here, 47 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: let me tell you, once you get stuck here, you're 48 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: just stuck here. There's not a lot of success stories here. 49 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: That left Hector with two main parental figures in his life, 50 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: his grandmother and his aunt. As a young kid, there 51 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: was a good kid. He didn't keep a big social circle. Ever, 52 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: that's his aunt, who Hector has asked me not to identify. 53 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: You'll see why as we get deeper into the story. 54 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: A good kid. I got no complaints about him. He 55 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: was the best son Monica asked for one. Very polite, 56 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: very well mannered. Hector's a big guy. He's six too, 57 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: and on this morning he was wearing a black hoodie 58 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: under another black hoodie with a baseball hat. He pointed 59 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: to a corner where a guy just got shot in 60 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: the head the other week. But he says this area 61 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: was a lot worse when he was growing up. Back 62 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: in the days, they used to have little crack bottles. 63 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: Seen those. I tried to google a quick picture for you. 64 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: But if there was that trend where there was a 65 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: train where instead of start up putting the cracking bags away, 66 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: now they just put the crack and crack bottles. I 67 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: used to see that all over the place. That wasn't 68 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: the only way Hector's life was intertwined with crime. His aunt, 69 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: that same aunt he just heard from so heroin and 70 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: his dad was also involved in the drug business. So 71 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: he was a guy that you would call if your 72 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: drug dinner and someone knows your money and there's a problem, 73 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: my father would come and beat you up, kidnap you're 74 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: throwing in the back of the car or something. He's 75 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: a sweetheart now, by the way, my father is a 76 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: lovely gentleman. But back in the days, he was young 77 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: and stupid. One day when he was a preteen, Hector's 78 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: aunt brought him a computer. She wanted me to do 79 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: hold my homework and stuff and writer reports, so she 80 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: bought me like at the time, it was like it 81 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,799 Speaker 1: was like the Model. It was like the super computer, 82 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: his super desktop. It was it was a sony vile. 83 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: I had like sixteen megabytes of RAM they had, like 84 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: had a Pennium on sixty six chip it in had 85 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: a twenty eight point eight upgraded came over him, Um, 86 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: it was like a Cadillac. Hector sounds super excited here, 87 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: but when his aunt first gave him this computer, he 88 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: really didn't take an interest. He was busy playing outside 89 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: with his friends, and the computer got stored in a closet. 90 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: Everyone forgot about it. Shortly after this, Hector's life took 91 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: a dramatic turn. My aunts and my father were arrested, 92 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: and you know, the cops came and arrested my grandmother 93 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: in our apartment. So I was there with the cops game. 94 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: They pulled up to the door and they let me 95 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: and my brother go with nowhere to go. Hector, thirteen 96 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: years old at the time, stood out on the streets 97 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: until the sun rose. Then he got passed around the 98 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: homes of a couple of relatives until his grandmother got 99 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: released on bail and took him back to the sixth 100 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: floor apartment in the Lower East Side. The police had 101 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: ransacked the place once everybody was gone, and we threw 102 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: everything out. I'm going to the close in the moment, 103 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: there's a massive sony vital box there this time, eager 104 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: for an escape, Hector took an interest. It's like you 105 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: don't wine the first time, and it's like you got 106 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: mail a well, um, but I had like a Copey serve, 107 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: trial copy cercles, another service similars a well, and I'm 108 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: just gonn online and I'm just talking to people. At first, 109 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: I thought the world fake, right, I thought they were 110 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: like robots or something. Just can't be real, the chat bots. 111 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: I started cursing people out as a thirteen real kid. 112 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, my insults were childish, and uh, 113 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: people started crushing me back. I was like, wow, there's 114 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: either some really sophisticating pots or these are real people. 115 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: When Hector's aunt gave him the computer, she had one 116 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: warning because of the way our minds run in my family. 117 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: The only thing my words to him more when I 118 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: gave him that computer, word, this is a federal offense. 119 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: Whatever you do, don't do nothing criminal wan, which is 120 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,679 Speaker 1: excellent advice. But with his aunt and dad in prison, 121 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: Packtor and his grandmother had very little money. Who was 122 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: just meeting her surviving off like a boat six months 123 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: as a side check. So it was a tough situation 124 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: and I needed to find way to get a line 125 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: for free. Hector came up with an ingenious and illegal solution. 126 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: He would use other people's a o L accounts to 127 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: get online, either by guessing their passwords or even by 128 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: pretending to be an AOL employee to trick users and 129 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: handing over their personal information. You know what they say, 130 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: like marijuana is a gateway drug, well pastor cracking is 131 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: another gateway drug. I think a lot of us remember 132 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: that moment when we first got dial up internet at 133 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: home and the things that made the Internet feel a 134 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: little magical. Oh. Absolutely. I remember the first time I 135 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: was in university talking with my high school friends that 136 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: were at different colleges around the world. Old and the 137 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: idea of just communicating with them online seemed, you know, 138 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: completely amazing. Yeah, you know. For me, and I'm just 139 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: a couple of years younger than Hector, chatting with my 140 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: friends on a well instant messenger was my thing. But 141 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: for Hector, the Internet was a different kind of toy, 142 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: vast library that he could just get lost in. I 143 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: would wake up in the morning before school, before I 144 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: quit school, and I was just gonna liine and just 145 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: read I'll go to out of Vista dot com because 146 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: Google wasn't that big yet, so he had out of East. 147 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: You had exite. So I'll just type in how to 148 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: hack or Unix or systems administration or whatever. I'll just 149 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: sit there read manuals. That was just reading and reading 150 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: and reading and reading. And then at some point I 151 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: broke into my first system without pastwards, without anything like that, 152 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: and it was a Japanese university server. What was the 153 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: purpose of breaking into that server? So proof a concept? 154 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: Can I do it? And then they became my my 155 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: my test bet right, and I learned so much of 156 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: that system. We should be clear. Hacking into a university 157 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: server is definitely a crime, but Hector is still an 158 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: early teen at this point. Like he loved that there 159 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: was something new that he could focus on and get 160 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: away from the world we was in when he was sixteen. 161 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: Hector's hacking morphed into something different, something more politically charged. 162 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: At the time, in the year two thousand, Puerto Ricans 163 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: were protesting the U. S. Navy for conducting bombing practice 164 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: on the island of Yekes, the exercises that accidentally killed 165 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: a civilian there. Hector, who remembers of Puerto Rican descent 166 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: joined the protests online by hacking into a Puerto Rican 167 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: government server and defacing its website. Sooner after, when Hector's 168 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: grandma was watching TV coverage of the protests, she heard 169 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: something odd. They kept referring to a person called Sabu, 170 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: the online pseudonym that Hector it started going by. The 171 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,599 Speaker 1: name was a reference to a particularly vicious wrestler, and 172 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: she knew that I was calling myself Sabu. So she 173 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: came to me and she was like, what are you doing. 174 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: What's your name? I said, Look, man, I don't know. 175 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: You know, I'm in a way. I'm I'm a rebel 176 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 1: trying to be a rebel. Okay, I'm trying to be 177 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: checking Vara. You know, my mother's fear was that they 178 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: were retaliated, come come looking for him. You know, that 179 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: was always a fear of everything. She tried to give 180 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: me a fline. She would like, disconnect the computer. I 181 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: was sleeping, and because I never saved anything, Hector didn't listen. 182 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: And his aunt, who is probably the only other person 183 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: who could have stopped him, was still in prison trying 184 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: to avoid getting into any more trouble herself. So every 185 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: time he came to talk to me, I was like, 186 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to know please, I don't want to 187 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: know us because the only person I have told him 188 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: that was his adrenal room. Shortainly after the Vikes hack 189 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: in the ninth grade, Hector dropped out of school. He 190 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: said he was depressed, missing his dad and his aunt 191 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: who were still in prison, living under financial strain, and 192 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: as he got more isolated in the real world, Hector 193 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: sought a community online. One day, he was approached by 194 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: the guy who ran the underground hacker group Hackwiser. He 195 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: was really cool, probably one of the coolest people have 196 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: ever met on the Internet. And he's like, yeah, Sabo, 197 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: Like I wanting to participate, and you know, we got 198 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: some stuff coming up soon after. This happened late Saturday 199 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: night in Washington Sunday morning in China. A United States 200 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: Enable Maritime Patrol aircraft on a routine surveillance mission in 201 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: international airspace over the South China Sea collided with one 202 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: of two Chinese fighters that were shadowing our plane. Both 203 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: our aircraft and a Chinese aircraft. The collision killed the 204 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: Chinese pilot and the American plane was forced to make 205 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: an emergency landing, the Chinese government refused to release the 206 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: plane's American crew until President George Bush apologized. The showdown 207 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,719 Speaker 1: led to a bizarre skirmish where Chinese hackers hacked US 208 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: government websites and left politically charged messages on them, and 209 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,599 Speaker 1: so all they got all the US hackers were like, 210 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: all right, we gotta do something too, We have to 211 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: we have to fight back, and uh, we just learted 212 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: hacking the out of Chinese government websites. So you're kind 213 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: of like a rogue cyber warrior basically for the United States. 214 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: A few years later, in two thousand two, Hector's aunt 215 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: and dad were released from prison. With his family back, 216 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: Hector's life came to resemble something much closer to the 217 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: lives of other teenagers his age. He started taking more 218 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: time away from the computer, attending protests in real life 219 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: on the streets where he met student activists at the 220 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 1: local universities, just hanging out with him at mcsorley's over there, 221 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: and you know by Saint Mark's and um, just hanging 222 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: out the bars in the back, just drinking and talking 223 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: about politics. He even got legit jobs as a system administrator, 224 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: which is essentially like an I t guy, and that 225 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: was a different person. You know, I was just working 226 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: and living life. I would still dabble here and there. 227 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: It is in order for you to to maintain your 228 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: experience and skills, you obviously have to continue, right, But 229 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: I wasn't doing act of his operations like I used 230 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: to it. During his pause on his high profile hacks, 231 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: Hector helped start a computer security firm with a Swedish 232 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: business partner. They secured some clients in the Nordic region, 233 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: but the business folded shortly after. Then he got a 234 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: job at a nonprofit earning a hundred thousand dollar salary. 235 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: But life was about to get a lot tough. That's 236 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: coming up. Welcome back. We left her story with things 237 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: looking up for Hector, but by the late two thousand's, 238 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: Hector's grandma was sick with the worsening case of diabetes. 239 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: She could barely get out of bed. Hector was her caretaker. Meanwhile, 240 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: Hector's aunt had gone back to dealing heroin. In two 241 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: thousand nine, she got arrested again. She had two young 242 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: daughters who were three and five years old, and with 243 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: his aunt gun, it was up to Hector to raise 244 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: the girls. Did you feel ready for that responsibility to 245 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: become a father. Over night us insane. By the spring 246 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: of two thousand ten, between taking care of the girls 247 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: and taking care of his grandmother, Hector couldn't make a 248 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: normal office job work. He lost his job at the 249 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: nonpro off it, and then he lost his grandmother. He 250 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: was twenty six at the time. Her dying is just 251 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: like I couldn't even cry. I was just like, wow, 252 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: I can't believe in why this, Why me? Where is 253 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: she gone? But then you had to come to the realization, 254 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: dude's been sick for ten years. I was there at 255 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: home with the kids. We were as low as possible. 256 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: Trust me when I tell you were really, really low. 257 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: Um that's the lowest ever been because I had the girls. 258 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: But then what times I was scared, I couldn't be 259 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: I couldn't feed them. You know that's why spiral. Yeah, yeah, 260 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: that's when I really lost it and I just started 261 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: hacking the planet man m Some of Hector's hacks came 262 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: out of these destitute times. On a few occasions, he 263 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: hacked a company that sold auto parts. So, for example, 264 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: someone didn't order for a car motor and the destination 265 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: was Connecticut I would change the destination to a location 266 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: in New York, and I would pick up the motor 267 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: and and I sold them and just bold the kids 268 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: food and both crayons and coloring books. But most of 269 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: Hector's hacks were far more ambitious in their scope. And 270 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: those hacks were sparked by a video that Wiki Leaks 271 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: published online in April two five and individuals Roger that 272 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: so the views from a US Army helicopter, and you 273 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: can see the gun's cross hairs in the middle of 274 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: the frame. You hear the American soldiers aboard discussing the 275 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: group of men they see below. All right, we got 276 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: a guy with an rpgre walking and the helicopter who 277 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: starts praying them with bullets. Pretty graphic. You're seeing arms, 278 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: heads ripped off. You're like, damn, it's pretty tough. But 279 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: this guy's gotta be terrorists. Two of the people who 280 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: are shot for journalists with the news agency Reuters. US 281 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: soldiers mistook their camera equipment for weapons. The video sparked 282 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: public outrage, it became a rallying cry for the hacker 283 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: group Anonymous, and it reignited something within Hector. It really 284 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: bothered me because here in New York growing up. I'm 285 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: not gonna I'm not gonna talk too bad about the NYPD, 286 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: but I've seen stuff these cops have done. I guess 287 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: people in authority, right, they have a gun, they feel 288 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: like they have the authority to shoot first, ask questions later. 289 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: And you had no idea if the guys with journalists 290 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: or not. And he just shot him. And but you 291 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: don't really killed me. Watching the ambulance, right, you saw 292 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: the guy with the van. He tried to swop people 293 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: who that were still alive come on and make his 294 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: blew them up with his kids. I mean, that was 295 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: tough to watch. Claire. With the renewed drive to act, 296 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: Hector wanted to do something, and he went on a 297 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: hunt to join Anonymous, which was gaining notoriety at the time. 298 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: He watched the YouTube videos posted by the group, which 299 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: took him to the website for Chan, where he found 300 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: the links to join Anonymous. Is online chat forums on 301 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: i r C, which stands for Internet Relay Chat right. 302 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: The i r C was sort of an Internet wide 303 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: bulletin board. You can almost think of it like a 304 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: big version of Slack where you can join individual channels. 305 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: De voted to different topics, and this is where he 306 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: found the Hackers channel. And Hector got approached by a 307 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: guy who went by the handle T Flow. Yes, Hector, 308 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: if you wanted to join a secretive hacker club. Hector 309 00:19:54,680 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: said yes, So Andy invite me to have grew a 310 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: room called Internet Fats, and Internet Fairs was full of 311 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: like all the big names, so anonymous. At the time, 312 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: it was deep place to be in. Earlier we heard 313 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: Hector talk about hacking the planet. You can take that 314 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: pretty literally. I've done a lot of hacks. I've I've 315 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: done thousands of hacks. I've done hacks so big that 316 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 1: you will never know. I can never discuss it. But 317 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: out of out of everything that you know and with 318 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: the media knows, with the public knows, one of the 319 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: bigger hacks is average spring stuff. This he's referring to 320 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: is the Tunisian uprising of eleven, which went on to 321 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: spark similar protests across the Arab world. The people's protests 322 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: are in no way cooling down, even as the politicians 323 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: agreed on plans for a coalition government including the opposition. 324 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: I don't want other is berracious were but I saw 325 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: the Tunisian situation as something that could change history. They 326 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: could probably cause a chain reaction in the Middle East 327 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: and get rid of a lot of the dictators that 328 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: were there. And I thought, you know what, I could 329 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: probably help these people. So Hector and a number of 330 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: Anonymous hackers attacked the Tunisian government's network, disrupting officials email 331 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: and defacing the Prime Minister's website. Hector joined similar attacks 332 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: on other authoritarian regimes, including the governments of Algeria, Yemen, 333 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: and Zimbabwe. And then there were Anonymous as less worldly hacks. 334 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: The group punished companies that had shunned wiki leaks. For example, 335 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: when PayPal, Visa and master Cards started blocking donations to 336 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: wiki leaks, the Anonymous hackers slowed or knocked offline their websites. 337 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: But perhaps the group's most brazen attack during this time 338 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: was an act of revenge. It was against the guy 339 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: called Aaron Bar. He was the CEO of HB Gary 340 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: Federal Now HB Gary is a cyber security firm that 341 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: offers protection to corporations and governments from cyber attack. Bar 342 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: threatened Anonymous by telling The Financial Times he had collected 343 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: information on their core leaders, including many of their real names. 344 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: The response was swift. Anonymous took down their website, stole 345 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: thousands of emails and posted them on the internet. The 346 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: CEO resigned. I remember this story. Aaron Barr's boss got 347 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: a lot of attention. It was it was just the 348 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: hubrist of it all, and then of course it all 349 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: came back to bite him. I even remember writing a 350 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: Business Week article about it at the time. Yeah, what 351 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: made the hack extra risky wasn't just the publicity it generated. 352 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: Hector and I talked about this over lunch at a 353 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: diner where he'd order these big breakfasts to wind down 354 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: after an all night hacking spree. I was like, Wow, 355 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: I really lost the boundary, Like I really went too far. 356 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: The HP guy was a federal contractor, that's a core 357 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: US asset. UM, and you like had the girls at 358 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: that point, right, so like, but you didn't think, like, wow, 359 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: I should really stop before I get so I got 360 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: the kids, I was already involved in other hacking operations. 361 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: It was just so late. I could have slowed it down. 362 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: You're right, and that's definitely mistake. That's definitely something that 363 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: I admit, Like I could have stopped, um, I would 364 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: have got arrested. Either way, but I could at least 365 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: stopped and maybe lessen the blow. Um, but I was 366 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: I was at the point, at least I felt like 367 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: I was at the point of no return. And uh, 368 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: sometimes you know, agatting part of my language, because sometimes 369 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: you have a moment. Right as this was all going down, 370 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: his aunt was still in prison. One time, Hector visited 371 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: with her daughters and his friends. The friend that accompanied 372 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: him up to that visit told me, you need to 373 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: hurry up and come home. There's a lot of things 374 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: going on that I can't tell you. And having him 375 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: tell me that was enough for me to be like, 376 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: what could possibly be going on? And then I was 377 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: getting little bits and pieces like from my aunts that 378 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: they would try to meet up with him or see 379 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: my daughters or something, and there's a bad We don't 380 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: know what Pop is doing, but you know something's not right, 381 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: but nobody could tell me specifically what it was. In 382 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: May two thleven, Hector embarked on what would be his 383 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: final hacking spring. It was a situation where the last 384 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: of us, the last of the Internet fens, we were 385 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: in a room by ourselves. We had survived a whole 386 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: bunch of drama and arguing and fighting. So it was 387 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: just a six which was me um Kayla, t Flow, Topiary, 388 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: pone Source, and Ava Unit. They called themselves low Seck 389 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: lowsper laughs SEC for security. There's a group of young 390 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: guys making fun of the cybersecurity industry. Each day they 391 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: hacked the different entity companies like Sony Pictures, PBS, Nintendo, 392 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: And they didn't do it quietly. They published press releases 393 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: to take credit for the attacks, and in the day 394 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 1: they dubbed f FBI Friday. You can just imagine what 395 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: that first F stands for. Low Sec even hacked the 396 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: Atlanta chapter of an organization affiliated with the FBI called 397 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: Infra Guard. The hackers stole and released logging credentials, passwords, 398 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: and other confidential information. They also defaced the chapter's website, 399 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: posting a YouTube video with words above it that said, 400 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: in all caps, let it flow, you stupid FBI battleships. 401 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: But once I did defacement and people started commenting on it, 402 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: what ended up getting more comments about how I'm going 403 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: down in the worst possible way. They're gonna get you now, 404 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: like you you really screwed up. You're gonna found out 405 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: that infant guard was really deeply embedded into the FBI. 406 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: And so over the next few days, I was paranoid. 407 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: I wiped my laptop. I sat there playing with the kids, 408 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: and every day I will take him to church, and uh, 409 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, I started seeing con Edison trucks parked out 410 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: from in front of my own building. It was just 411 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: bizarre people hiding in vans with paperwork peeking at me. 412 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: It was a balmy evening. On June seven eleven, exactly 413 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: one year after his grandmother's death, Hector went to a 414 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: local right aid, bought the girls coloring books and toys, 415 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: and dropped them off at church. He wanted to get 416 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: them out of the apartment, the same apartment where a 417 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: decade and a half earlier, he once watched the cops 418 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: holloway his grandmother. He says, he sensed what was about 419 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: to happen next, and then they said police, said police, 420 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: what the police don't here. When opened the door, I 421 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: see the whole FBI squad just in there. They said, 422 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: come on, step out of the door. At the door 423 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: was Chris Tarbell, a young special agent, and the FBI's 424 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: elite cyber squad. A handful of other agents were there. Too. 425 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: One of them said, we know you are dude, I 426 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: know you're sad, but I'm like, well, I don't know 427 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: who that is. And I knew it Any really had 428 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: me um, but I was trying to burn some time, 429 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what could with these kids. With 430 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 1: his aunt in prison his grandmother dead, Pector was a 431 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: sole guardian of his young cousins. More than anything else, 432 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: he worried about the FBI calling child services. These little girls. 433 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: I cannot allow them to go into forced to care. 434 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: I got to do everything in my power to make 435 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: sure they stay with me because and my new We're 436 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: told about a split second. But for that split second, 437 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: and my brain was like a week. He didn't know 438 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: what to do, so Hector let the agents into his apartment. 439 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: They sat around his kitchen table. Hector stalled them, continuing 440 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: to deny that he was Sabu. So the agents brought 441 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: up some damning evidence they'd uncovered through a search warrant 442 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: for his Facebook account. On Facebook, Hector had sent a 443 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: relative a list of other people's credit card numbers that 444 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: he'd obtained. That's a serious crime, and it was enough 445 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: for the FBI to arrest him. But the agents wanted 446 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: something more, and when he said, how about you just 447 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: come downtown, you know, let's figure this out together. I 448 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: knew I had leverage as something. I said, all right, 449 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: I'll do that. We're gonna eat the kids here with 450 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: my brother and um, Chris Tarbell, he's all over an 451 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: FBI just I can actually mention his name. He was 452 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: a gentleman. He said, okay, he's going to leave the 453 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: kids here with your brother, and you're gonna come down 454 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: with us. Who would have figured this out. The agents 455 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: arrested Hector and right around midnight took him to the 456 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: FBI's office at twenty six Federal Plaza in downtown Manhattan. 457 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: At the FBI's office, Hector didn't even asked for a lawyer. 458 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: He was still terrified of losing custody of his young 459 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: cousins and he wanted to make every show of cooperating. 460 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: When I got downtown, I said, look, here's what I know. 461 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: Exploits zero days um attack methodology. I know how anonymous works, 462 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: and it works really bad. It's not sophisticated. Trust me, Um, 463 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: I'm the most sophisticated hacker there. Look at me, Um, 464 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: you know high school dropout, right, So Uh, but they 465 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: were more curious about, like how these centralized organizations work. UM. 466 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: They were really curious if I was really decentralized, which 467 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: I've told you no, they're not what they weren't. Um. 468 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: They were curious about how we're doing these fast paced, 469 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: UM sophisticated hacks or high profile hacks. And I explained 470 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: to them it was easy. I did most of them. 471 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: And that's when they hit me. And he said, okay, 472 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: well you admitted these times were gonna have to charge 473 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: you with these climes. Uh so I do you had that? 474 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: I was a gunner. I was dead, you know, I 475 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: was done. But Hector had a lifeline. How we avoided 476 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: a one twenty four year prison sentence and its long 477 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: road to redemption that's coming in part two of this episode. 478 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: If you subscribe to our show, it's already in your feet.