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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, Welcome to Counterpoints.

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Speaker 5: I'm joined not by Ryan Grim but by Candace Owns,

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Speaker 5: I mean Crystal Ball. Crystal, thank you so much for

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Speaker 5: stopping by for another girl show.

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Speaker 4: It's always fun to have you here.

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Speaker 1: We should just invite Candacen too, make it even more fun.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, while we're doing the girl thing, we could just yeah,

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Speaker 5: we can all.

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Speaker 4: Three of us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to get into this morning, I was going.

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Speaker 5: To say this show is packed because we're in primary

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Speaker 5: election season. Actually, we have a lot to talk about

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Speaker 5: just from Virginia. In the primary election season. Things are

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Speaker 5: getting a little bit wild down in Virginia. But we're

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Speaker 5: going to be starting with updates for Israel. Then we

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Speaker 5: will be moving on to talk about break down some

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Speaker 5: of the election results last night. Some of them are

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Speaker 5: actually still real nail biders. We're talking about hundreds of

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Speaker 5: votes separating people, including the chairman of the Freedom Caucus.

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Speaker 5: We're then going to discuss James Carville's I think maybe

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Speaker 5: pressient prediction.

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Speaker 4: About the debates next week.

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Speaker 5: Crystal coming up really quickly, crazy new video of an

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Speaker 5: Air Canada Boeing jet catching on fire. Boeing CEO was

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Speaker 5: testifying before the Senate yesterday, and Glenn Greenwald will be

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Speaker 5: here to discuss the insane Reuter's story that found an

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Speaker 5: incredible Pentagon operation basically to undermine vaccines during COVID undermined

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Speaker 5: trust and faith in vaccines in the Chinese vaccine, we

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Speaker 5: should say, so, Glenn is going to be here to

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Speaker 5: talk to us about all of that. As a reminder,

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Speaker 5: Breaking Points dot com to subscribe premium, you get all

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Speaker 5: of Counterpoints, you get it in your inbox early, as

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Speaker 5: opposed to the few segments that end up on YouTube.

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Speaker 5: You get it all right there and it goes straight

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Speaker 5: to you. So on that note, Crystal Crazy updates from

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Speaker 5: net Yahoo World yesterday. Yeah, probably a lot of people

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Speaker 5: have seen, but if they haven't, we should start with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, so many more difficult conversations happening behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes because the Biden administration reportedly very very angry about

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Speaker 1: this video that BB Net Yahoo put out. I'll show

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Speaker 1: you the video in just a moment. Let's actually start

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Speaker 1: with the Axios report about the fallout from this video.

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Speaker 1: This is Barack Revid who is actually he writes for Axios.

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Speaker 1: He's also an Israeli journalists, and he always gets these

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Speaker 1: like they're very upset, they're having tough conversations quote unquote scoops.

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Speaker 3: So the latest.

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Speaker 1: Scoop is the White House is canceling a meeting and

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Speaker 1: scolding Net Yahoo in protests over this video that he

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Speaker 1: put out. Apparently some Israeli officials were on their way

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Speaker 1: to Washington for talks about what's going on with Iran.

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Speaker 3: Those meetings were canceled.

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Speaker 1: We also had a White House aide who was in

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Speaker 1: Israel effectively at the time when this BB video was

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Speaker 1: put out, and that's the individual who supposedly had the

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Speaker 1: tough conversations behind the scenes. Effectively, what happened is BB

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Speaker 1: put out this video in spite of all you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Biden has done basically everything BB Netnawe has

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Speaker 1: wanted him to do.

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Speaker 3: The bear hug.

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Speaker 1: The support has been quite fulsome this entire time, over

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Speaker 1: the criticism of many in his own party. In spite

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Speaker 1: of all of that, BB put out an English language

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Speaker 1: video criticizing Biden and claiming that he's not sending all

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Speaker 1: of the weapons and the AMMO that Israel actually wants.

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Speaker 1: And BB also compares himself to Churchill, because of course

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Speaker 1: he does. Let's take a listen to that video.

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Speaker 6: When Secretary Lincoln was recently here in Israel, we had

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Speaker 6: a candid conversation. I said, I deeply appreciated the support

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Speaker 6: the US has given Israel from the beginning of the war.

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Speaker 6: But I also said something else. I said, it's inconceivable

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Speaker 6: that in the past few months the Administration has been

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Speaker 6: withholding weapons and ammunitions to Israel. Israel America's closest ally

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Speaker 6: fighting for its life, fighting against Iran, and are other

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Speaker 6: common enemies. Secretary Blincoln assured me that the administration is

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Speaker 6: working day and I to remove these bottlenecks. I certainly

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Speaker 6: hope that's the case. It should be the case. During

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Speaker 6: World War Two, Churchill told the United States give us

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Speaker 6: the tools, we'll do the job, and I say, give

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Speaker 6: us the tools and we'll finish the job a lot faster.

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Speaker 5: So Christal he didn't just compare himself to Churchill there,

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Speaker 5: He actually sort of cast himself as someone greater than Churchill.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, church Hill two point zero, the new and

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Speaker 1: improved church Hill. That's beabing and Yahoo, amazing, amazing stuff there.

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Speaker 1: The administration was really left kind of shocked, apparently because

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Speaker 1: the truth of the matter is they have given Israel

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Speaker 1: everything that Israel has wanted at the time, in place

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Speaker 1: that Israel has wanted it, with the exception of this

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Speaker 1: one shipment of five hundred two thousand pound bombs that

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Speaker 1: we could put this up on the screen. We have

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Speaker 1: Tony Blinken's official response to net Yahoo. He says, we

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Speaker 1: continue to review one shipment at President Biden talked about

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Speaker 1: regarding two thousand pound bombs because of our concern about

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Speaker 1: their use in densely populated areas like Rafa. That remains

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Speaker 1: under reviewed. But everything else is moving as it would

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Speaker 1: normally move. It also seemed to be somewhat of a

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Speaker 1: coordinated political attack because you also had Mitch McConnell putting

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Speaker 1: out this statement at the same time on the Senate floor.

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Speaker 1: He said that Israel needs the weapons the president has withheld.

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Speaker 1: It needs the time and space to finish the job.

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Speaker 1: We can put this up on the screen, guys, this

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Speaker 1: should be a three. It needs the freedom to operate

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Speaker 1: on its own timetable based on tactical reality in the

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Speaker 1: Middle East, not on the political wins in Washington. Another

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Speaker 1: US official anonymously said, no idea what he's talking about.

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Speaker 1: Only one shipment of the unguided five hundred two thousand

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Speaker 1: pound bombs was paused, So you know, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of political backgrounds here, Emila. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans just came together to invite this dude

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Speaker 1: to come speak to Congress. A lot of Democrats very

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Speaker 1: upset about that plane boycott or perhaps even you know,

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Speaker 1: give some counter protest of some sort to be becoming.

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Speaker 1: Biden has been nothing but supportive of Israel's assault on Gaza,

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Speaker 1: even the purported red line of invasion of Raffa, I

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Speaker 1: mean Israel's in Rafa. They have been for quite some time.

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Speaker 1: It has not led to any actual consequences. And you

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Speaker 1: also know and have known for a long time that

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Speaker 1: ultimately BB would rather have Trump in office who's not

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Speaker 1: even going to do any of the like hand ringing

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Speaker 1: virtue signaling stuff. So just on an ethical, moral, and

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Speaker 1: political level, once again showing the foolishness of the Biden administration.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and the invitation in Nyaho was originally extended as

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Speaker 5: kind of a diplomatic chess piece. It was at a

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Speaker 5: moment when the United States and a lot of Democrats

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Speaker 5: in particular, were not feeling like confident that what they

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Speaker 5: were saying about Rafa and what they were saying about

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Speaker 5: Israel's prosecution of the war was being taken very seriously,

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Speaker 5: and so they thought, well, we can extend an invitation

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Speaker 5: for Netnyaho to address Congress, and it's become a complete

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Speaker 5: disaster for them because it's I don't know Christel that

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Speaker 5: it's actually going to happen at this point.

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Speaker 4: I think it's just not going to happen.

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Speaker 5: Because I don't know how they're going to make it

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Speaker 5: happen in a way that's not disastrous for the basically

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Speaker 5: their support for the war period, because it's going to

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Speaker 5: be such a harsh reception for ntnya who from so

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Speaker 5: many House Democrats, that it will look so bad.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, that's my prediction.

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Speaker 1: Look bad for who though, because I don't think Babie caress.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the ship is sailed in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways though, because they already sent in the invitation. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a date on the books, so maybe there's

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Speaker 1: some way to back out of that. But it doesn't

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Speaker 1: look like this White House is willing to, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: take a strong stand on much of anything. So I

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Speaker 1: think they'll probably let him come and do his thing.

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Speaker 1: He sees it as beneficial to him domestically in Israel.

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Speaker 1: His polls seem to go up when he's seen putting

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Speaker 1: out these videos, you know, putting the US in our

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Speaker 1: police and standing up for Israel, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's still unpopular in Israel, but he's doing

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Speaker 1: better than he was doing right after October seventh. He

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Speaker 1: has effectively, you know, let some of the fury over

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Speaker 1: the manifest security failures, of which we continue to learn

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Speaker 1: more about, die down and give himself a chance at

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Speaker 1: political survival. Because it's not just political survival. He also

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Speaker 1: is facing ultimately corruption charges that could land him in

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Speaker 1: prison as well.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I think as long as he.

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Speaker 1: Sees this visit as beneficial to himself, then it is

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Speaker 1: likely to go forward.

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Speaker 3: But we'll see how that all of that happens.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the other thing I have to comment on

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Speaker 1: is like, you know, they're pulling a meeting, they're having

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Speaker 1: the tough conversations behind the scenes, so it's not like

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Speaker 1: there's any real consequence to this video and this, you know,

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Speaker 1: public humiliation of the President of the United States, who

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Speaker 1: this isn't the first time that he's been publicly humiliated

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Speaker 1: at the hands of bb Netnaho.

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Speaker 3: That's basically been the story of this war.

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Speaker 1: But it also does seem like they're actually more perturbed

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Speaker 1: and upset over this video than they are over the

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Speaker 1: complete flouting of any of the supposed red lines that

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Speaker 1: have been laid out by the US previously. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've been saying for months and months there

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Speaker 1: needs to be more humanitarian aid moving there's not.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's dire.

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Speaker 1: Conditions in northern Gaza and in southern Gaza. Actually since

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Speaker 1: we've put that the PEER into place, and now the

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Speaker 1: PEER is basically dead and gone and over by the way,

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Speaker 1: the amount of humanitarian aid has actually fallen, So you

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Speaker 1: know that has been completely flout in the you know,

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Speaker 1: with horror, horrific consequences for people on the ground, and

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Speaker 1: also yet another humiliation of the Biden administration. We're about

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Speaker 1: to talk about this very likely escalation in the war

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Speaker 1: visa vi Hezbolah in Lebanon. That is something else that

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Speaker 1: from the beginning of the US has been saying like,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to go there, we need to we

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Speaker 1: need to make sure that this doesn't happen. Well, guess

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Speaker 1: what it looks like it's going to happen. And then

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Speaker 1: the most clear cut example is Rafa. You know, the

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Speaker 1: President made a point of saying we will reevaluate if

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Speaker 1: there is a major invasion of Rafa.

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Speaker 3: Well there has been.

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Speaker 1: It's been ongoing for weeks and weeks now, and we've

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Speaker 1: never heard anything more about it. There hasn't been any consequences.

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Speaker 1: This one weapons shipment that they paused, is it. That's

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Speaker 1: the extent of it. And in spite of all of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the fact that there's even been any ratora

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Speaker 1: goal mild criticism of Israel has led to you know,

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Speaker 1: this video from bb VET, Yahoo and Republicans by the way,

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Speaker 1: positioning themselves as they ou will be even more pro Israel.

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Speaker 3: We won't even you know, hand ring it all.

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Speaker 1: So, just an extraordinary set of circumstances, and like I

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Speaker 1: said before, I think really reveals the foolishness of the

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Speaker 1: Biden policy, of the bear hug of net Yaho that

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Speaker 1: we've seen play out four months at this point.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's why I'm trying to imagine the

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Speaker 5: pomp and circumstance of net Yahoo rolling into Congress in

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Speaker 5: a matter of weeks, and you have the Biden administration,

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Speaker 5: you have Democrats, I mean, Republicans are happy to rally

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Speaker 5: around net Yahoo. It's just such a disaster for Democrats

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Speaker 5: because it's going to like if they are really sensitive

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Speaker 5: about the video. I think that's an interesting point that

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Speaker 5: this video in particulars like what has irked them so

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Speaker 5: much so net Yahoo moving through DC talking to reporters.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I wouldn't put money on it exactly.

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Speaker 5: But for Netanyahu, to your point, which I think is

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Speaker 5: important one, it's like he wants those optics, badly wants

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Speaker 5: those optics. For Democrats, maybe they don't even realize what

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Speaker 5: a disaster it will be, just in terms of all

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Speaker 5: the questions he's going to answer the criticism he's going

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Speaker 5: to level at the United States and then them having

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Speaker 5: to answer for that and them having to be boycotting

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Speaker 5: the speech or whatever. It's just buckle up if you're

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Speaker 5: a House Democrat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's not just like ao Aoc and Ilhan

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Speaker 1: Omar and the squad that are planning to skip the speech.

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Speaker 1: Jim Clyburn has said he's not going to go. You

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Speaker 1: have some number, significant number of mainstream Democrats who also

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Speaker 1: are not going to attend. And partly, you know Bib Natanya,

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Speaker 1: who has been the person probably most responsible for making

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Speaker 1: attitudes towards Israel more partisan, both because of his conduct,

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Speaker 1: you know, indefensible conduct in this era in Gaza, and

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Speaker 1: also because you'll recall he came and spoke to Congress

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Speaker 1: over the objections of President Obama back when Obama was

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Speaker 1: negotiating the Iranian nuclear deal, and b Be came and

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Speaker 1: really inserted himself in a partisan way and also was

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Speaker 1: really betting and pretty clearly betting that Romney was going

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Speaker 1: to beat Obama in twenty twelve that obviously didn't work out.

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Speaker 1: There's also reporting from the time of you know, Biden

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Speaker 1: and Hillary Clinton actually we're going to be taking a

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Speaker 1: bit of a tougher line ortsnet Yahoo. And Biden is

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Speaker 1: the one who came in and said, listen, I'm like

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Speaker 1: your only friend, and like undermined his own presidents foreign

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Speaker 1: policy with regards to this. So, you know, Bibe is

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Speaker 1: perfectly willing to be partisan. He's perfectly willing to make

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Speaker 1: it clear who he prefers. At this point, I think

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Speaker 1: he has total understanding and clarity that Biden is unable,

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Speaker 1: unwilling whatever to actually, you know, impose any sort of consequences,

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Speaker 1: and so he's just gonna do what he likes and

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Speaker 1: what he feels serves not Israel, not his people, but

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Speaker 1: his own personal, narrow political interests. So I you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that's the way that we that's the lens

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Speaker 1: through which we should view basically all of his actions.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, I mentioned before this very likely

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Speaker 1: escalation into there's already been a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: back and forth between Israel and Hesbela. The whole northern

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Speaker 1: part of Israel has been evacuated because of those ongoing

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Speaker 1: that ongoing biting intentions. Well, this was extraordinary yesterday. Can

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Speaker 1: put this up on the screen, so Hesbelah released drone

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Speaker 1: footage showing sensitive, you know, key Israeli positions. We're talking

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Speaker 1: chemical and oil storages. Most of this is around the

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Speaker 1: port of Haifa. It appeared to show, according to a

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Speaker 1: news report, parts of a factory belong to a defense maker,

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Speaker 1: including iron home batteries, rocket engine depots, David's slingshot facilities

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Speaker 1: and radar. So this basically a provocation emily by Hesbela

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Speaker 1: saying like, look, we're able to get our drones in

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Speaker 1: here in spite of your iron bone systems and take

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Speaker 1: a look at all of your sensitive positions, and if

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Speaker 1: we can get our drones in there and get this

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Speaker 1: kind of video, you can imagine what sort of military

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Speaker 1: capabilities we would have as well. This comes as the

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Speaker 1: Israelis are also projecting. They're saying they have operational plans

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Speaker 1: in place. They are very much threatening a wider escalation

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Speaker 1: and could put this up on the screen. So this

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Speaker 1: is from the Guardian. Israeli Foreign minister says decision on

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Speaker 1: all out war against Hesbola is near. Sign off on

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Speaker 1: planning for a Lebanon offensive follows release of Hesbela drone

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Speaker 1: footage of Haifa in northern Israel. Let me read you

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Speaker 1: a little bit of this. So Israel Katz, who is

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Speaker 1: Israel's Foreign affairs minister. He said in a post on

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Speaker 1: Twitter that after those threats, quote, we are getting very

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Speaker 1: close to the moment of deciding on changing the rules

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Speaker 1: of the game against Hesbela and Lebanon. In an all

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Speaker 1: out war, Hesbela will be destroyed and Lebanon will be

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Speaker 1: severely beaten. Israel's military later said operational plans for an

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Speaker 1: offensive in Lebanon were approved and validated, and decisions were

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Speaker 1: taken on the continuation of increasing the readiness of troops

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Speaker 1: in the field. At the same time we could put

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Speaker 1: the next piece up on the screen. You did have

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Speaker 1: a senior or Biden advisor, although I'm now senior the students,

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Speaker 1: I've literally never heard of him. Special Envoy Amos Hochstein

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Speaker 1: met with Nan Yahoo and Gallant. Part of the whole

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Speaker 1: reason this dude was there to just try to head

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Speaker 1: off a war with Hesbela. And once again, Emily, while

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Speaker 1: he's there literally for the purpose of trying to avoid

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Speaker 1: war with Hesbela, Israel is basically announcing their plans for

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Speaker 1: war with Hesbela.

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Speaker 3: So that's where we are.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's actually an interesting it's an interesting sort

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Speaker 5: of split screen with what's happening in Rath because you know,

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Speaker 5: what we hear a lot of Hawkish folks in Israel

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Speaker 5: and outside Israel say is that they're surrounded by vicious enemies.

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Speaker 5: And we can get into, you know, the deeper conversation

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Speaker 5: about why that is, but it is true, and that

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Speaker 5: means innocent people's lives are very much hanging in the balance,

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Speaker 5: and it's sort of unfortunate the bridges that Israel has

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Speaker 5: in some cases of the course just the last couple

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Speaker 5: months not fully burned, you know, to.

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Speaker 4: The point that you were making earlier.

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Speaker 5: You know, they basically are still getting what they want

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Speaker 5: from rubber stamps from the Biden administration, but the sort

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Speaker 5: of moral credibility that has been you know, with a

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Speaker 5: lot of people who are involved in the negotiations, whether

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Speaker 5: they're in the Biden administration or in the broader West

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Speaker 5: and diplomacy and all of that now wanting to you know,

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Speaker 5: stave off as we're just talking about Amos Hotchsteen not.

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Speaker 4: A person I heard of either a great name.

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Speaker 5: As he's trying to stave off the war, I have

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Speaker 5: to imagine that these conversations are a lot more difficult,

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Speaker 5: and any effort to prevent suffering of innocence is a

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Speaker 5: lot more difficult because of some of this just wildly

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Speaker 5: unnecessary prosecution of the war.

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Speaker 1: Well, the Israeli public does not support the direction of

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Speaker 1: bb Net Yaho. I mean, we're hearing more and more

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Speaker 1: family members of hostages coming out and saying like bib

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Speaker 1: Neatnaho is one of the key obstacles to the return

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Speaker 1: of the hostages, which, of course he's used the hostages rhetorically,

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Speaker 1: you know, as a political weapon to justify.

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Speaker 3: Continuing the war.

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Speaker 1: But the hostage families themselves, many of them at least,

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Speaker 1: see very clearly that you know, it doesn't take a

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Speaker 1: rocket scientist to understand majority of the hostages were released

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Speaker 1: through ceasefire negotiations, and bib Netna I mean Betty Gant's

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Speaker 1: former war cabinet member, came out and said this directly

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Speaker 1: that he was not interested. He was doing everything he

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Speaker 1: could to undermine those potential negotiations. Now I'm not taking

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Speaker 1: you know, Hamas's role out of this whatsoever, but always

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Speaker 1: from the US focus, these are the people that we

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Speaker 1: are funding, that we are supporting that we are backing unconditionally.

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Speaker 1: And obviously, you know, first and foremost, the actions have

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Speaker 1: been devastating to the civilian population in Gaza, devastating to

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Speaker 1: Gaza in general. You know, the levels of hunger, the

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Speaker 1: level of annihilation, the reconstruction after whenever this is over

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Speaker 1: is going to be years and years and years. It's

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Speaker 1: just insane, the level of complete destruction and devastation that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about here.

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Speaker 3: So that's first and foremost.

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Speaker 1: But even from an Israeli political, domestic security perspective, the

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Speaker 1: decisions are incredibly foolish and very self serving. And yet

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Speaker 1: if you were a real friend to Israel, you know,

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Speaker 1: if Biden really was a true friend to Israel, sometimes

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Speaker 1: you have to tell your friends difficult things. Have to also,

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Speaker 1: if you're the world superpower, hold them to account. And

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Speaker 1: so the whole direction has been incredibly I think, incredibly foolish,

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Speaker 1: incredibly short sighted from the Biden side. I think it's

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Speaker 1: really damaging from the Israeli side. And now we're faced with,

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Speaker 1: you know, another potential escalation, which can I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: Israelis have every interest in dragging us directly into that.

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Speaker 1: Will Biden resists that when he hasn't resisted anything else

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Speaker 1: that the Israelis have wanted us to do. I think

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Speaker 1: everyone should be very concerned about that. And Hesbela is

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Speaker 1: a serious adversary. I mean they have a lot more

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Speaker 1: weaponry and are a lot more serious militarily than Hamas

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Speaker 1: ever could dream of being. They also had no involvement

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Speaker 1: on October seventh, And the core of this conflict right

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Speaker 1: now between Israel and Hesbela is all about Israel's assault

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Speaker 1: in Gaza. That's the core of the problem. There's the

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Speaker 1: core of the problem with you know, the Hoho thies

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Speaker 1: with Iran. Of course, Israel had that dramatic provocation of

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Speaker 1: attack the Iranian embassy. So once again we are at

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Speaker 1: a precipice of potential escalation and increased chaos here in

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Speaker 1: the context of this conflict.

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Speaker 5: And it's worth noting in the video we started the

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Speaker 5: segment talking about the net Yahu video sort of that

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Speaker 5: the United States government is reacting to.

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Speaker 4: He mentions Iran.

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Speaker 5: He went out of his way really to cast the

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Speaker 5: war as really one and this is in his ability,

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Speaker 5: in his attempt to persuade the United States, or to

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Speaker 5: even shame the United States.

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Speaker 4: Into being more fully supportive, which is a high bar.

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Speaker 5: Obviously, he mentions that this is or he casts this

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Speaker 5: war as one that's really ultimately against Iran. And we're

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Speaker 5: having this conversation after Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong un

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Speaker 5: just had a pretty warm meeting, and it's not hawkish

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Speaker 5: or warmongering, just to note how fragile the geopolitical ecosystem.

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Speaker 4: Is right now. And so Netanyahu.

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Speaker 5: Hesbola war potentially with Hesbola Netan Yahoo talking in those

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Speaker 5: terms about Iran, there's a hot war happening right now

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Speaker 5: in Ukraine that the media seems to have suddenly forgotten about.

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Speaker 5: So it's just I think, ultimately the way that Nanyahu

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Speaker 5: has gone about this war, whether it ultimately makes Americans

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Speaker 5: more safe, whether it ultimately makes Israeli's more safe, is

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Speaker 5: genuinely an open question.

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Speaker 4: But I mean an open question.

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Speaker 5: Maybe, I mean, I personally don't think the answer to

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Speaker 5: that question is yes. But you know, we'll still see

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Speaker 5: the scale of how this continues to escalate, because it's

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Speaker 5: not de escalating.

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Speaker 4: That much is very clear at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, And you know BB wants to wait

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Speaker 1: on Biden. He's hoping just like you hope that Obama

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Speaker 1: will get beat by Romney, and he's hoping that Biden

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Speaker 1: will get beaten by Trump. And yeah, that's the other

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Speaker 1: thing that's just incredible to me is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: even just from a petty political standpoint, this guy is

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Speaker 1: not your ally. He doesn't want you to be in office.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to knife you and undermine you at every

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Speaker 1: possible point. And you you know, just even from like

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Speaker 1: a very human, narrow, petty, self interested perspective, you are

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Speaker 1: unwilling unable to do anything about it. So just you know,

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Speaker 1: more of the same of what we've been seeing, I

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Speaker 1: think over since October seventh at this point.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Lebanon is the place to watch going forward, sadly

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Speaker 5: looking like another escalation. Should we move on to domestic elections, Crystal,

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Speaker 5: let's talk about it all right. So Virginia, in particular,

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Speaker 5: Crystal's home state, for whatever reason, had some very interesting

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Speaker 5: races last night. We can put this first element up

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Speaker 5: on the screen from punch Bowl punch Bowl News, and

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Speaker 5: they were digging into Virginia's fifth district, which results are

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Speaker 5: actually still outstanding. We're going to get to them in

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Speaker 5: just a moment that I think might have been the

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Speaker 5: most interesting race last night. We can put the next

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Speaker 5: element up on the screener, just sort of taking a

435
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:15,719
Speaker 5: tour through these There's a Democratic brawl in Virginia's tenth Chrystal,

436
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 5: do you before I move on from this, did you

437
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 5: have any sort of takeaway on what was going on

438
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 5: in Virginia's tenth district because this one was kind of

439
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 5: hard to get a handle on there were so many candidates.

440
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is Jennifer Wexton was representing this district.

441
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: She has a neurological condition that is untreatable, and so

442
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: she's stepping down, and so this is the primary to

443
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: attempt to fill the seat. This is a district that

444
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: is in the sort of ex Surban DC area, centered

445
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: in like Loudun County, which used to in the very

446
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: recent past, at least, you know, from my perspective, be

447
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: consistently Republican. This is one of the places that has

448
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: really realigned into the Democratic Party. Now, Jennifer Weston did

449
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: not have an easy race. I think it was relatively

450
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: close when she first won the seat, But this is

451
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: seen as a district that Democrats at this point in time.

452
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 3: Should be able to win.

453
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: However, as Brian Mary apparently really went sideways. So first

454
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 1: of all, because it is the prime you know, opportunity

455
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: for ambitious Democrats, you had a whole bunch of Democrats

456
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 1: jump into this race. There was no consolidation behind like

457
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: this one particular candidate. You had people who were well known,

458
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: who had held positions of power. You had a woman,

459
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: Eileen Fillercorn, who was the former i think state Speaker

460
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: of the House.

461
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 3: So you had a.

462
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: Number of names that were well known. It looked like

463
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 1: this one dude was very well positioned.

464
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 3: He'd raised the most money.

465
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 1: Dan Helmer is his name, He was a state and

466
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: at the last minute these revelations came out that he

467
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: had been he was a sort of serial sexual harasser,

468
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: that the board that he previously had sat on they

469
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: had had to change all their rules around sexual harassment

470
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: because this dude was such a problem.

471
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 3: So you had that.

472
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: You also with the woman I met I mentioned before,

473
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: Eileen Fillercorn, you had a scandal involving her as well,

474
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: because she received the endorsement of this pack democratic majority

475
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: for Israel. That if you guys follow Ryan's reporting, He's

476
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: done a lot of reporting on their sort of a

477
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: pack aligned super pack. They're you know, solely pro Israel

478
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: and take the APAC line on that, et cetera. They

479
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: endorse her, and the very next day she donates one

480
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars to them, So it really

481
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: looked directly like she basically paid for that endorsement.

482
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: So she was in the mix.

483
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: So there was another person in this race whose name

484
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: was Crystal actually call She apparently was lying about her

485
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 1: resume and really like embellishing beyond the norm was.

486
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 3: So there was just like a whole bunch of.

487
00:26:59,080 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 4: Suff going on.

488
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, people lost their minds in this race,

489
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: but so there was a whole lot of stuff going

490
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: on there. Ultimately, Democrats became very nervous about the fact

491
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: that this dude, Dan Helmer could still potentially win because

492
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 1: the allegations came out so late, and you know, they

493
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: seem credible enough and like enough of a problem that

494
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: it could potentially in a district that still is a

495
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: swing district, hand that district to Republicans. He did not prevail, however,

496
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: so I think they're breathing a sigh of relief, and

497
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: we have I'm looking at you know what number element

498
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: is that we do have the results from that that

499
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: we can show people of who ultimately was able to

500
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: win the day.

501
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 3: I think it's before guys.

502
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: I've seen enough suhas Supermannum, I'm gonna go with sorry,

503
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: guys wins that that district. So cook political is now

504
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: giving it a rating of solid D. So I think,

505
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: you know the Democratic establishment. Now, I didn't have a

506
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: horse in this race. I was glad Eileen Phillercoorn lost

507
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: because of that whole MFI thing.

508
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 3: But that's about as far as it went for me.

509
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: But anyway, they'll be happy that he won and not

510
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: the other gentlemen.

511
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: So there you go.

512
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, it was fairly close.

513
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 5: I think he won by like five I think he

514
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 5: ended up pulling it out by like five percentage points

515
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 5: somewhere around there. But we should also note, and I

516
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 5: know this is always bizarre to people who've lived in

517
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 5: Virginia for a long time, but if you google wealthiest

518
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 5: county in the United States, it is loud In County.

519
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 5: As of right now, they have the highest median income

520
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 5: sort of formerly rural area further out than Fairfax County

521
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 5: outside of DC. But a lot of people from those

522
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 5: big tech companies, defense contractors that have landed in Northern

523
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 5: Virginia over the years. This is a district that's full

524
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 5: of those sorts of people. Was a center of the

525
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 5: sort of school board battle in twenty twenty twenty one,

526
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 5: so it's it's fairly interesting how this ended up playing

527
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 5: out and that it became such a big battle ground.

528
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 5: I can't imagine the amount of money that was spent

529
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 5: just for this one seat.

530
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Louden, it's a really beautiful area. It was, you know,

531
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: was in some ways still is this sort of like

532
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: horse country, you know. So if you're a wealthy lobbyist

533
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: in you have to commune into DC or you've retired,

534
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: like this is sort of the prime area that you've

535
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: moved to. I'm sure they've experienced a boom post pandemic

536
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: with people having the hybrid remote work schedules as well,

537
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: so that you can more easily live in a place

538
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: like Louden where you are going to have a decent

539
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: commune if you need to go into the city, but

540
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: if you only have to do that a couple times

541
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: a week, then it makes a lot of sense. So

542
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: in any case, this is an area right to point

543
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: out it was one of the centers of like the

544
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: school board battles. I think Republicans when they elected Glenn

545
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: Youngkin got very excited that this is the type of

546
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: place that could be back in play, and that's still

547
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: theoretically possible. But I do think Democrats got you know,

548
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: a decently strong contender here and it's likely they'll be

549
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: able to hold onto the seat. And that of course

550
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: matters a lot when you consider what is the House

551
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: margin right now, three seats or something like that, It's

552
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: as close as could possibly be, So each one of

553
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: these seats becomes incredibly like pivotal and potentially determinative in

554
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: terms of the next House majority.

555
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I have relief at the DNC.

556
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 5: I'm sure the d triples should say I have heard

557
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 5: these results now, but yes, staying in Virginia because, believe

558
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 5: it or not, we have.

559
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 4: Two more Virginia races to talk about. Eugene Vindman.

560
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 5: A lot of people know what alex alex Vinman Alexander Vinman,

561
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 5: but his twin brother, Eugene Vinman, who is also part

562
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 5: of the whistle blowing on Donald Trump's quote perfect phone call,

563
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 5: which we needn't get into crystal, but part of the

564
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 5: whistle blowing and that entire sort of impeachment saga that

565
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 5: played out during the Trump administration. One a primary, a

566
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 5: Democratic primary. This is for Abigail's span Burner span Burger's district,

567
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 5: which I believe is Virginia seven yesterday. Virginia seven yesterday,

568
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 5: you get Eugene Vinman twin brother five million dollars he

569
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 5: raised to win this seat in Congress, or the primary

570
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 5: for the seat in Congress Crystal again, because this is Virginia, that.

571
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 4: Is I imagine going to.

572
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 5: Be a fairly contested general election. It's probably safe them,

573
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 5: but could actually turn into something going forward, you know. Again,

574
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 5: he raised five million dollars. Spanburger is running for governor,

575
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 5: sort of an establishment DEM favorite centrist, and this is

576
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 5: in a lot of ways makes sense as somebody who

577
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 5: would potentially replace Abigail Spanberger. True, but I could see

578
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 5: this escalating a little bit in the general election contest.

579
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: So this is the district that I live in. I

580
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: explicitly voted against Vitmin yesterday in a primary.

581
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 4: I sort of.

582
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: Expected he would win, but I guess democracy, that's it.

583
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: I just don't want to preserve democracy. That's some against

584
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: that fascist. Yeah, So you know this district, it's been

585
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: redrawn recently, so I formerly was in more of a

586
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: conservative or rural district. Now it's been drawn so it

587
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: takes in more of the sort of exurban area. That

588
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: does make it much more of a swing district. The

589
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: reason you're joking about how he's a perfect successor to Spamburger,

590
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: Spamburger's former CIA.

591
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: So these are like two deep Staters. I guess.

592
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: Guess people around here just love the deep state. I

593
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: don't know what to tell you, but he obviously has

594
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: huge fundraising capacity. You know, I don't know his real

595
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: capabilities as a politician. It doesn't really matter that much

596
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: at these house level people don't tune into them enough

597
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: to really distinguish between like the political talent.

598
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 3: Of various actors, et cetera.

599
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: But because he has that national fundraising base, I'm sure

600
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: the party loves him and feels like this is, you know,

601
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: exactly who we want to be the face of the

602
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: Democratic Party in twenty twenty four.

603
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: So there you go.

604
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: And you know, I do think that this district is

605
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: rated you know, lean or likely or something by cook

606
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: political So I think he's you know, he's he's most

607
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: likely Tovail, but it is still a district that could

608
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: kind of go either way. And you mentioned Abigail Spaanberg

609
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: or running for governor. I think she'll have a decent

610
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: shot at that as well. In Virginia, you can only

611
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: serve one term as governor, so Glenn Youngkin is already

612
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: lame dog term limited out, which you know, in my

613
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: opinion that rule is very silly. But not that I'm

614
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: a Glen Youngkin lover, but just in general, I think

615
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: that's a silly rule to have that tight of term limits.

616
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,479
Speaker 1: But in any case, she will be on the ballot

617
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: next time the governor's race comes up here.

618
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's where we are with that one.

619
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 5: And let's shift over to Republican races now, because over

620
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 5: in Oklahoma, Tom Cole, we mentioned this in the in

621
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 5: the this was actually on the tear street that we

622
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 5: put up first, combined with what happened in Virginia.

623
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 7: Five.

624
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 5: But if we take a quick visit outside of Virginia,

625
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 5: we're going to go in to return to Virginia, of course,

626
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 5: but let's just start in Oklahoma, where eleven term Congressman

627
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 5: Tom Cole, Republican, had a primary with four different candidates

628
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 5: in it, and some of them were sort of like

629
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 5: upsurge almost.

630
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 4: I don't know.

631
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 5: It reminded me kind of how the Tea Party, you know,

632
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 5: you had these these sort of anti establishment candidates that

633
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 5: are all jockeying for a position.

634
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 4: He managed to hold on in that.

635
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 5: Race, which was a fairly interesting result, but it was

636
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 5: a pretty convincing margin of victory for Tom Cole. Let's

637
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 5: go back over to Virginia five, where a former guest

638
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 5: of Counterpoints House Freedom COCCUS chairman Bob Good is currently trailing.

639
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 5: We can put b this is b five up on

640
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 5: the screen. He is trailing two hundred and eighty five

641
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 5: votes to McGuire. And this is a crazy race and

642
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 5: one of the more interesting, if not the most interesting

643
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 5: results that came in last night. Saving the best for

644
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 5: last year, because McGuire ended up getting endorsements from Donald Trump,

645
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 5: Kevin McCarthy. I think Marjorie Taylor Green jumped into this

646
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 5: and Virginia five became this bizarre probably will be one

647
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 5: of the most interesting primary races on the Republican side

648
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 5: this entire.

649
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 4: Cycle, This bizarre sort of test case.

650
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 5: Battleground over Trump, McCarthy, DeSantis all of that. Bob Good, again,

651
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 5: currently the chairman of the House Freedom Caucus, looks like

652
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 5: he's about to lose his primary by a few hundred

653
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 5: vote votes because he voted against Kevin McCarthy and he

654
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 5: endorsed Ron DeSantis. So well, Kevin McCarthy is out there,

655
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,479
Speaker 5: you know, still going after Matt Gates. If you listen

656
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 5: to Matt Gates' take on things, is kind of shiving

657
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 5: him with these ethics investigations from behind the scenes. That's

658
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 5: how Matt Gates put it when there was an announcement

659
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 5: of a new ethics investigation into him just this week.

660
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 5: Kevin McCarthy is seeking revenge against Bob Good, who is

661
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 5: one of the few just they needed just a few

662
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 5: people to vote against Kevin McCarthy in order to oust

663
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 5: him his speaker. Bob Good was one of those people.

664
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 5: He also endorsed DeSantis over Trump, which Trump into the race.

665
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 5: Bob Good couldn't be accused by anyone's standards of being

666
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 5: sort of moderate, but because he endorsed the Santas over Trump,

667
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 5: and because he voted to aust McCarthy, all of the

668
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 5: support came in for maguire and it looks like it

669
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 5: was enough to put him over the edge, even though

670
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 5: Good still had support from other people, Freedom Caucus people,

671
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 5: Chip Roy, other sort of people in maga spaces.

672
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 4: It was kind of maga on maga.

673
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 5: Violence down in Virginia five last night, Crystal, and it

674
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 5: looks like again the Chamber of the House Freedom Caucus.

675
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 4: Who.

676
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 5: When Ryan and I interviewed Bob Good, I want to

677
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 5: say this was back in February, somewhere around there of

678
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 5: the winter. He basically said, you know, reporting about the

679
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 5: Freedom Caucus's divisions is overstated.

680
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 4: We're okay.

681
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 5: He really went after Marjorie Taylor Green. I forget exactly

682
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 5: the appethet that he used, but just used. I don't

683
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 5: think it was what did the other representative call her?

684
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 5: Like blonde bad butch body. I don't think you said that,

685
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 5: but it was brutal.

686
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: Bleech blonde, I think, yeah, yeah, but that's the one.

687
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 5: It was alliteration, poetic. It was great, but in both directions.

688
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 5: I mean, I just un ironically enjoyed that exchange. I

689
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 5: don't think we ever talked about on the show, but

690
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 5: just perfect. It's the not the Congress we need, but

691
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 5: the Congress we deserve.

692
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

693
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 5: Uh that that the chairman of the House Freedom Caucus,

694
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 5: more powerful than I think so many people realize, is

695
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 5: about to.

696
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 4: Lose in this maga mega violence.

697
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 5: It shows you Democrats are getting their Normies, at least

698
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 5: in Virginia. Their Normis are hanging on Normy hung on

699
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 5: in Oklahoma on the Republican side. But I don't know,

700
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 5: I don't know that Republicans are you know, there's in

701
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 5: so many ways, like it's still downstream of these like

702
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 5: twenty sixteen divisions, which were in none of themselves, downstream

703
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 5: of like the twenty ten divisions. It's just this long

704
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 5: shimmering battle that they can't put a lid on.

705
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, it seems like by the way,

706
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: the race isn't called yet, so it's possible it's only

707
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: separated by a few hundred votes. But a McGuire's taken

708
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: the lead. He's been the lead, you know, by those

709
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 1: few hundred votes for a while, so it's looking good

710
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: for him. So we'll ultimately see I mean, it could

711
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: even go to a recount. We don't know, but you know,

712
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: it looks like good could have survived, maybe just the

713
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy thing, because didn't Kevin McCarthy also come for

714
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: Nancy Mason that that didn't work out down in South Carolina.

715
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: So I don't know that he has the juice on

716
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: his own to take someone out. But then when you

717
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: endorse the Santis against Trump, that was really the one

718
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: that seemed to steal his fate. I'm curious from you, Emily,

719
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, like, what do you read into this? What

720
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: does it mean politically? You mentioned that he's quite powerful.

721
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: What does it mean sort of ideologically or does it

722
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: demonstrate that ideology is really not even second to like

723
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: tertiary or way down the list from just aligning yourself

724
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: with the right politicians and picking the right horses and

725
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: staying on Donald Trump's good side.

726
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's really about Donald Trump at the

727
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 5: end of the day. I think that's basically what it

728
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 5: comes down to. I think the other big takeaway is

729
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 5: that the Freedom Caucus actually is a mess, and that

730
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 5: sounds like maybe a background Capitol Hill story, but I

731
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 5: really don't think it is.

732
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 4: I mean, we saw what.

733
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 5: Happened with Kevin McCarthy, the nineteen ballots just for him

734
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 5: to become speaker, then the obviously motion of Akate, which

735
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 5: only takes one person, and.

736
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 4: He's ousted there.

737
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 5: Now in this situation with Mike Johnson, where a lot

738
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 5: of people will stay behind closed doors, shit, we were

739
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 5: better off with Kevin McCarthy. That's basically the understanding that

740
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 5: a lot of people have, or some people will say,

741
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 5: you know, maybe we don't know if we were better

742
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 5: off with McCarthy, but it was still, you know, worth

743
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 5: the effort to oust him, to sort of scare the

744
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,919
Speaker 5: Republican establishment, et cetera. The bottom line, though, is that

745
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 5: without a Freedom Caucus that is able to be effective,

746
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 5: the Republican establishment is going to get whatever it wants.

747
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 5: And it's hard for everyone to be on the same

748
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 5: page when you have such a tiny margin. And House

749
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 5: Republicans in and of themselves aren't that powerful when they

750
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 5: have such a small margin, but they are still powerful enough.

751
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 5: Kevin McCarthy gave a lot to the Freedom Caucus. He

752
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 5: put them on the committees they wanted to be on,

753
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 5: gave them chairmanships that they wanted to have. He gave

754
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 5: them the motion of Akate, which eventually is what was

755
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 5: his downfall.

756
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 4: He gave them a lot.

757
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 5: Mike Johnson is giving them basically nothing, even though they

758
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 5: always felt like Mike Johnson was kind of Freedom Caucus adjacent,

759
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 5: and so these Trump divisions have just basically destroyed the

760
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 5: Freedom Caucus. They can't get on the same page, they

761
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 5: can't be unified as a block because of those divisions,

762
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 5: which means that the Republican establishment is just basically running

763
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 5: like just bulldozing any sort of you know, any sort

764
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 5: of disagreements.

765
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 4: And the last thing I'll say on.

766
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 5: That point is as annoying as some people may find

767
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 5: the Freedom Caucus, I will say they are an actual

768
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 5: unified anti establishment voting block in the House of Representatives.

769
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 5: And so while I may not agree with everything that

770
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 5: they do, they are the only real challenge to the

771
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 5: Republican sort of pro war, pro defense contractor pro austerity,

772
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 5: all down the line establishment that exists in Congress. And

773
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 5: so things are at least a lot more interesting and

774
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 5: fun and you know, worth debating when they have a

775
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 5: sort of organized voice that is actually able to put

776
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 5: some pressure on the establishment.

777
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 7: Yeah.

778
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 1: I mean this is basically since the Tea Party era,

779
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: this has been a group not the same individuals, but

780
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: this vibe and this grouping has been giving hell to

781
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: Republican leadership. You know, since the early twenty tens, and

782
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: as a leftist, I've always looked at these groupings with

783
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: jealousy that there was no willingness to use power, because yeah,

784
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 1: if you have this solimn majority, then basically the power

785
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: is up for the taking for a small group of

786
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: people who are willing to you know, willing to use

787
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: hardball tactics. And the Freedom Caucus is currently the only

788
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: group that really has exhibited any willingness to actually use

789
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 1: the power that they have. So I don't agree, but

790
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: there are a few of their goals I do agree with,

791
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: but you know, mostly they are like pro aster. I mean,

792
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: they're you know, hardline conservative Republicans obviously don't have a

793
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: lot of common cause with them, but tactically, I've been

794
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: very envious of their willingness to throw their weight around

795
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: in a way that we just literally never see on

796
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: the Democratic side. I mean, this was the hope of

797
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: that the Squad would engage in a similar adversarial type

798
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: of politics visa the their own leadership, and that just

799
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: has not manifested whatsoever. Yeah, I do want to give

800
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: You've got you know, Rashidas to leave and others who'd

801
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: been willing to be very critical on Israel specifically, but

802
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: in general, when they had the opportunity, when Democrats were

803
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: in their own narrow majority and there was a possibility

804
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: of engaging in similar adversarial politics within their own party coalition,

805
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: we didn't see any of that.

806
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 4: And a quick fact.

807
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 5: Check, producer Max says bleach blonde, bad built, butch body,

808
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 5: which I don't think we had in the proper order.

809
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 4: We may have even left something out.

810
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 5: So bleach blonde, bad built, butch body, Thank you producer

811
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 5: Mac for it.

812
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 1: I know there were t shirts made, so guys just

813
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: just check those out.

814
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 5: Speaking of the twenty twenty four election cycle, James Garvel,

815
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 5: he seems to be everywhere these days, crystal ball cap

816
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 5: T shirt not doing the whole yeah things, So I'll

817
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 5: give him credit for that.

818
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 4: What's going on with James Carvil.

819
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, well, you know, he's just one of these

820
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: like irresistible political characterism has been for like forty years.

821
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: So in any case, he was ONMSNBC talking about the

822
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: CNN debate between Trump and Biden which is set to

823
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: occur next week, which is crazy, and he said he

824
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: would put money on Trump not showing up.

825
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to that, well.

826
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 8: If I was a gamble, Actually I am a gambler.

827
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I take even money.

828
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 9: Trump doesn't show up, all right? I just think you

829
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 9: don't think Trump's coming next week?

830
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 8: I mean, I don't know what if I was, I

831
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 8: think he's going to wake up and say and decide.

832
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 8: He just like he said he was going to testify

833
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 8: his defense of his trial.

834
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 6: I put on the defense.

835
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 8: He's let him show up. I wouldn't be shocked, but

836
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 8: I certainly would not be surprised. If he gave me

837
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 8: even money, I'd say he's a no show. He'll just

838
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 8: get up with more and I'm just not gonna do it.

839
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: What do you think of that? Emily think he's on

840
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 3: to something.

841
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 5: I was curious why he made a point of saying

842
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 5: that on TV, because as freewheeling as James Carvill is,

843
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 5: he is also a like major voice in the Democratic Party.

844
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 5: He's on cable news. Is he trying to almost like

845
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 5: challenge Trump? Is he trying to.

846
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 4: I don't know.

847
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 5: I mean I thought I'm not trying to like play,

848
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 5: say he's playing forty chess. But when people go on TV,

849
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 5: when powerful people go on TV, I mean, I know

850
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 5: he's not you know, in the administration or anything, or

851
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 5: on the campaign, you go on TV, you kind of

852
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 5: know that you're going to be making the sort of

853
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 5: ripple or you're going to have a ripple effect throughout

854
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 5: how campaigns are thinking about these things.

855
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 4: So I don't know.

856
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 5: I wonder. I think, of course, Donald Trump shows up

857
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 5: for the debate.

858
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 4: I think he is.

859
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 5: He relishes the opportunity to debate Joe Biden. You know,

860
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 5: the debates were not as one sided in twenty twenty

861
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 5: as I think some people expected them to be, just

862
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 5: given Biden's age, which even then was a question.

863
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 4: You know, they're similar in age. But Donald Trump, for

864
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 4: whatever reason.

865
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 5: U is obviously a bit more high energy than Joe Biden,

866
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 5: even if he you know, has memory issues at certain

867
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 5: times too, probably not quite on the same level.

868
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 4: But you know, Biden was able to handle.

869
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 5: Those debates, I would say fairly, well more better than

870
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 5: I expected him to, frankly, But I still think Donald

871
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 5: Trump feels very confident. I mean, debating is Donald Trump's thing,

872
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 5: what he's like, that's his whole That's how what was

873
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 5: vaulted to political success was in the debates. So I

874
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 5: don't think he you know, it's one thing for the

875
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 5: Republican primary when he's obviously winning and doesn't want to kind.

876
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 4: Of dignify it.

877
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 5: Uh, this is a statistical dead heat. I think the

878
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 5: RCP average has them like literally tied right now. It's

879
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 5: not quite the same thing. So I don't honestly, I

880
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 5: don't totally understand that prediction.

881
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you might be on to something with the idea

882
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: that he's like trying to bait him and trying to

883
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: make sure he shows I don't know. I can't get

884
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 1: these people heads, but I find him preposterous. The idea

885
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: that Trump wouldn't show up to this, I mean, who's

886
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: going to be intimidated by Joe Biden at this point?

887
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 4: It's good point nobody.

888
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 5: Because, right Joe Biden twenty twenty four Joe Biden is

889
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 5: not twenty twenty Joe Biden.

890
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 4: It's a different Joe Biden.

891
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's it.

892
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: Like in the first debate in twenty twenty, Biden won

893
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: not because he was so amazing, but because Trump was

894
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: such an over the top aggressive asshole that everyone just

895
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: couldn't stay.

896
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 3: He could not let Biden get a single word out.

897
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: It was just so obnoxious that the overwhelming consensus, and

898
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: the consensus among voters, et cetera, was that Biden had

899
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: actually won that debate. And you know, he handled himself

900
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: well in the final debate against Bernie two, so you know,

901
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: when it was time to perform in twenty twenty, he

902
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: was able to do well enough. Remembering that the bar

903
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: for Joe Biden is always set like basically at the floor,

904
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: and has been set at the floor for years now,

905
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: but it is four years later and he has declined more.

906
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: I mean it's very noticeable, Like it's very clear that

907
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: he has declined significantly since then. So you know, I

908
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: think it's very up in the air. And now there

909
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 1: was an interesting, curious your analysis of this, Emily, There's

910
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: an interesting rule that they've deployed here, which is that

911
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 1: they the mics in between answers are going to be cut,

912
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: so people can't so basically Trump can't like constantly cut

913
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 1: Biden off in the same way. And I know a

914
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: lot of the analysis has been like, oh, that's such

915
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: a gift to Biden, but I think it could cut

916
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: either way, because on the other hand, again, the whole

917
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: reason Biden won that first debate was because Trump was

918
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 1: so aggressively cutting him off and coming off as such

919
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: an asshole. So you know, I could sort of see

920
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: that cutting in either direction in terms of, you know,

921
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 1: who is perceived to have won this this next debate

922
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: they extend that such a thing even really matters.

923
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so that's also really interesting because this is

924
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 5: the first modern debate that's not being held by what

925
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 5: is it called the Presidential Debate Committee whatever? The formal

926
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 5: committee is commission, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that

927
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 5: I mean is normally these debates the only reason to

928
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 5: go is, you know, you can talk to people on

929
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 5: the campaigns beforehand. Everyone's sort of in the same place

930
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 5: you do the spin room afterwards, which is of you know,

931
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 5: questionable value when you're just talking to people surrogates and

932
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 5: it's kind of the whole, you know, campaign circus. But

933
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 5: this debate I think is going to be particularly interesting

934
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 5: for I'm like very curious. It's one of those things

935
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 5: I almost wish I was going to because the process

936
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 5: questions are huge, Like I don't know if CNN can

937
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 5: even pull this off because both camps are going to

938
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 5: That was to your point. That was something that was

939
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 5: reportedly at least a Biden campaign request about the meeting

940
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 5: of the microphones. There's also this rumbling that this debate

941
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 5: is happening so early before the conventions, which I don't

942
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 5: know if that has ever happened, but before the conventions

943
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 5: because Democrats are looking to see how Joe Biden is

944
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 5: able to handle himself, and if he basically melts into

945
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 5: a puddle on stage, they may have time to replace him.

946
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,439
Speaker 5: Now whether or not that's true is a different question.

947
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 5: I'm sure they have some tricks up their sleeves should

948
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 5: something happen, because the bottom line is he's an old man,

949
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 5: they're both old men, and anything can happen at any

950
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 5: point in time. But that is also part of this,

951
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 5: Like is that the reason why they convince CNN to

952
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 5: do a.

953
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 4: Debate in late June? And if that's the case, how

954
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 4: does CNN.

955
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 5: Without the Presidential Debate Commission and all of the pre

956
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 5: existing norms and rules going into this, are they going

957
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 5: to be able to pull it off where both candidates

958
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 5: feel like next week, you know, night before nobody pulls

959
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 5: the plug and says, wait, we want this to happen.

960
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 5: CNN's not doing it, So maybe James Carvel's onto something

961
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 5: just about purely the process questions. Maybe it could even

962
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 5: come from the Biden camp, frankly, who doesn't feel like

963
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 5: CNN's going to be.

964
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 4: Tough enough on Trump. I mean, there's just a lot

965
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 4: that can go wrong here.

966
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

967
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: Well, and by the way, the two moderators are Jake

968
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: Tapper and Dana bash So you can imagine the Israel

969
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: portion of this is going to be just absolutely Horrendo's

970
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: not that there's all that much daylight between these two

971
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: candidates on Israel or RFA Junior, who they have outrageously,

972
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: you know, completely rigged this to shut out of even

973
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: having a chance to make the debate stage.

974
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 3: But I guess if.

975
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: I really were to guess what was going on with

976
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: these James Carvel comments, there's been more discussion of like, oh,

977
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 1: Biden's going to find some excuse at the last minute

978
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: to say he can't do it, like Trump'll do something

979
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: outrageous and I'll say, oh, I can't dignify this man

980
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: by sharing the debate stage with There's something like that.

981
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: So maybe he's just trying to, you know, put the

982
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: shoe on the other But well, actually I think it's

983
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump that's a free just a bit of political

984
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: bluster and bullshit.

985
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 5: Effectively, if Democrats aren't feeling confident in Biden, Biden campaign

986
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 5: is like, oh, he's not doing so well the night before.

987
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 5: What excuse can they find? Because this is not a

988
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 5: formal presidential debate commission, it's a new thing, what excuse

989
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 5: can they find to be.

990
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 4: Like, this is not going to be fair. We'll reschedule

991
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 4: something like that.

992
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think at this point it is

993
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: likely to happen because we could put this next piece

994
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: up on the screen. I mean, Biden's losing. He needs

995
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: to do something to make a comeback because he's behind.

996
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: This is the latest economist forecast. They give chump Trump

997
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: a seventy two percent chance of winning, Biden the twenty

998
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: eight percent. Those odds. You can see the tracker they're

999
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: up on the screen. The red line is Trump's opportunity,

1000
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: the blue line is Biden's chances. And Biden's chances have

1001
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: really fallen off a cliff. But the next piece up

1002
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: on the screen that tracks be likely electoral votes. Right now,

1003
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 1: they've got Trump's send it likely to win three hundred

1004
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: and six electoral votes or two seventy is all you

1005
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: need to win, and Biden down at two thirty two. Now,

1006
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: many have pointed out this is roughly what the odds

1007
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: look like back in twenty sixteen, only reversed when Trump

1008
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: came from behind to beat Hillary. So it's not like

1009
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: this means the election is over, especially when you do

1010
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: have a you know, significant amount of time. Also, other

1011
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: forecasts say other things. However, Biden is behind, and I

1012
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: personally do think that these debates are likely to be

1013
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: more consequential than other debates in the past for the

1014
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: sole reason that, you know, when we did those word clouds,

1015
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: when jail partners did those word clouds, and we were

1016
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: able to show them the number one word for Biden

1017
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: with every single group, including Democrats, is old. That's the

1018
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: number one word they associate with him. So, you know, ordinarily,

1019
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: all the political scientists will tell you other debates don't

1020
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: really matter. They may move the polls briefly, but ultimately

1021
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: things return to the norm. But if the key question

1022
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: for voters, or one of the key questions for voters

1023
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: is just like, does this guy have another four years

1024
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: in him, then I do think what happens in these debates,

1025
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: especially given how limited he is in terms of the

1026
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: public eye, could be unusually consequential and break the norm

1027
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 1: of the debates not really mattering. I think that there's

1028
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 1: a good argument to be made that because of those

1029
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: very unique dynamics where people are really saying, like, you know,

1030
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: what do we think here? Let me test the waters

1031
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 1: and see if I can imagine this guy up there's

1032
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: still four years from now. I think these actually could

1033
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: be could really matter, and could actually make a sustained

1034
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 1: difference in a way that debates typically don't.

1035
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 3: In terms of the timing of it.

1036
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: My read on why Democrats wanted it so early, it's

1037
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: not because they have any ambition of replacing Biden on

1038
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: the ballot. I would love to imagine that was the case,

1039
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: but I don't think that it is. I think it's

1040
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: because they want to allow, if it's a disaster, time

1041
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: to recover from that disaster, and then they can also

1042
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: there's another debate schedule. They can decide, like, if it

1043
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: is a disaster, they can decide to come up with

1044
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: some excuse for pulling out of that one, and you know,

1045
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 1: do what they can through ads and paid communications to

1046
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: try to recover the damage that would be done here.

1047
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 5: Right, and then they wouldn't have to debate before the election,

1048
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 5: so they can say the candidates already debated. Donald Trump

1049
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 5: did not play fair, but the voters already had their opportunity, like,

1050
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 5: we will not dignify this convicted felon going forward.

1051
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it.

1052
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 4: That's it.

1053
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 3: That's my guess for what it's worth.

1054
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 5: Speaking of convicted felons, someone was testifying before the Senate

1055
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 5: Permanent sub Committee on Investigations yesterday who maybe should be

1056
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 5: a convicted felon but isn't. That would be the CEO

1057
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 5: of Boeing, who again was in front of the Senate.

1058
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,959
Speaker 5: They have these like select permanent subcommittees.

1059
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 4: This is one of them. This is the one on investigation.

1060
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 5: He was testifying there yesterday and faced some tough question.

1061
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 5: Before we get to that, though, we want to start

1062
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 5: with this video.

1063
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 4: This is a video.

1064
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 5: We can start playing it. You can hear you should

1065
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 5: be able to hear some of the sound. This is

1066
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 5: of an Air Canada flight. This is a Boeing jet

1067
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 5: that Air Canada was flying flying Wednesday last Wednesday from

1068
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 5: Toronto to Paris.

1069
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 4: You can see the plane. It is visibly on fire.

1070
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 5: People just exclaiming in the background, like what the hell

1071
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 5: is going on? Basically that was chalked up to a

1072
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 5: quote engine issue, an engine issue by I think that

1073
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 5: was actually by Air Canada said a quote engine issue.

1074
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 5: Probably a lot of people are going to look at

1075
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 5: that and say, what.

1076
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 4: Do you mean engine issue?

1077
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 5: Tell me more about this so called the engine issue.

1078
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 4: And I'd love to.

1079
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 5: Know why Boeing seems to be having so many issues

1080
00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 5: with the engines or other parts of the plane.

1081
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 4: That video is insane.

1082
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:07,720
Speaker 1: It's terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying. Like, I've never been afraid

1083
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: to fly. It's never been, you know, an issue. I

1084
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 1: don't love the like when there's turbulence, but it's fine.

1085
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: You know, I've never had reluctance to set foot on

1086
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: an airplane. I am now like I will be uncomfortable

1087
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: next time I get on a Boeing aircraft because we've

1088
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: just had so many of these incidents, and now we've

1089
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: also had so many whistleblowers come out and say your

1090
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: right to be afraid, your right to lack confidence in

1091
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: this company and in their planes.

1092
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 3: Because they're using faulty parts.

1093
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: They are cutting corners at every turn on safety. And

1094
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: it's not just one individual at this point, it's many

1095
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: multiple individuals who have come out and testified to very

1096
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: similar culture of profit first, safety last, and when you're

1097
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: talking about you know, something that's got to take you

1098
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: up super high in the air where you want everything

1099
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: to be perfect and Christine and every single I dotted

1100
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,439
Speaker 1: and T crossed. That is a terrifying thing to see.

1101
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: And then you see a video like this and you're like, Jesus,

1102
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: what the hell? What the hell?

1103
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean just like it's easy to say bad

1104
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 5: timing for boeing, but it's not bad timing in a sense,

1105
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 5: it's perfect timing. As all this stuff is happening, it's

1106
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 5: being verified like with things that people can see. So

1107
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 5: actually the CEO again, David Calhoun, you was before the

1108
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 5: Sunate yesterday, got some questions about those whistleblowers that you

1109
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 5: just mentioned, Crystal.

1110
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 4: Let's roll this next clip.

1111
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 10: Mister Calhoun.

1112
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 9: What is it that you get paid currently, Senator?

1113
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 11: That's well disclosed in our proxy documents in each of

1114
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 11: the years that I've been employed.

1115
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 10: Yeah, but what is it?

1116
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 11: It's a big number, sir.

1117
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 10: Well, let me help you out. It's thirty two point

1118
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 10: eight million this year. Is it's sound right, Yes, it does.

1119
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 10: It's a forty five percent increase over last year. Does

1120
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 10: that sound right?

1121
00:58:59,400 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 11: Yes? It does.

1122
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 4: What is it you get paid to do? Exactly?

1123
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 11: I get paid to run the Boeing company.

1124
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, So just help me understand that. I mean, do

1125
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 10: you get paid for transparency? Is that part of Is

1126
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 10: that one of the metrics for your income?

1127
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 11: I think the board counts on me for transparency?

1128
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 10: Really, because you're under investigation for falsifying seven eighty seven

1129
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 10: inspection records, the going is under criminal investigation for the

1130
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 10: Alaska Airlines flight. You were investigated by DOJ for a

1131
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 10: criminal conspiracy to defraud the FAA. This is all in

1132
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 10: your tenures. Doesn't sound like a lot of transparency to me.

1133
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 10: Have you seen the reports that the subcontractor that you

1134
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 10: use to make that door piece that fell out of

1135
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 10: the sky, that when the FAA went and toured the

1136
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 10: facility they found one door seal being lubricated with don

1137
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 10: liquid dish soap and cleaned with a wet cheese cloth

1138
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 10: and another was being checked with a hotel room key card.

1139
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 9: Does that sound like safety to you, Senator?

1140
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 11: I think our relationship with that particular supplier has been

1141
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 11: well documented, reviewed by the FAA and most certainly US

1142
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 11: and I'm very intent on acquiring that company so that

1143
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 11: none of that ever happens.

1144
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 10: I mean, we've had multiple whistleblowers come before this committee

1145
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 10: and alleged that Boeing is cutting every possible corner on

1146
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 10: quality and safety, not just in the past, but now

1147
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 10: they've alleged that you've eliminated safety inspections, that there are

1148
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 10: fewer in quality and there are fewer inspectors doing quality

1149
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 10: inspections out there. They've alleged that when they raised quality

1150
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 10: issues and concerns, they were reassigned, they were retaliated against,

1151
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 10: they were physically threatened. That doesn't sound like attention to

1152
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 10: quality to me. And yet you're getting paid thirty three

1153
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 10: million dollars a year.

1154
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 3: So shorty, Senator, I.

1155
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 11: We have increased our quality inspectors significantly, Okay.

1156
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 5: So Richard Blumenthal also asked some questions, some tough questions

1157
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 5: about the whistleblowers, and David Calhoun said he actually hasn't

1158
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 5: met personally with any of the other whistleblowers. That was

1159
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 5: one of the take or with any of the whistle blowers.

1160
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 4: That was one of the takeaways from his testimony. Yeah,

1161
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 4: it's insane.

1162
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 5: He also there were victims family members of victims who

1163
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 5: had died in seven thirty seven MAX crashes that were

1164
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 5: there for the hearing yesterday, and Calhoun turned around sort

1165
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 5: of like people might remember Mark Zuckerberg doing that recently

1166
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 5: and said, I would like to speak directly to those

1167
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 5: who lost loved ones online air Flight six ten and

1168
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 5: Ethiopian Airlines flight through too. I want to personally apologize

1169
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 5: on behalf of everyone at Boeing.

1170
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 4: I can't even read these words.

1171
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 5: We are deeply sorry for your losses. Nothing is more

1172
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 5: important than the safety of the people who step on

1173
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 5: board our planes every day. We seek to honor the

1174
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 5: memory of those loss through a steadfast commitment to safety

1175
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 5: and quality. Steadfast commitment to safety and quality, though, is

1176
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 5: crystal basically exactly what he's getting questions about, because it's

1177
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 5: very clearly at this point not quite as steadfast as

1178
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 5: it should be for a country that is a company

1179
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 5: that is a defense contractor and gets I can't even

1180
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 5: be like the if you had to calculate the amount

1181
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 5: of subsidies that Boeing has gotten over the years from

1182
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 5: state government, from the federal government, I don't know if

1183
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 5: you could even tally it all up.

1184
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: Oh, it's astronomical, And I just have to note they're

1185
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: David Calhoun looking very tanned and rested as he's taken

1186
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: those questions. I don't know if you guys remember he

1187
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 1: announced recently he's going to step down along with at

1188
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: least one other you know, executive level individual And you know,

1189
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: I think they're interested in saying like, okay, these people

1190
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: are stepped aside, problems solved. But what we know, and

1191
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: you know, people like Matt Steller done a great job

1192
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 1: of documenting that this is a company wide, systemic cultural

1193
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: issue and it also ties into I mean, it ties

1194
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: into the broader structuring of our economy the way so

1195
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: many of these companies, maybe all of these public companies,

1196
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: have become all about the shareholder profit maximizing bottom line,

1197
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: and you know, this very short term mentality where whatever

1198
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: you can do to juice the stock price is what

1199
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: you're going to do. Quality, safety, workers, et cetera.

1200
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 3: Be damned.

1201
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: Boeing is part of that trend. And with Boeing, obviously

1202
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: it has led to utter catastrophe. In fact, we're fortunate

1203
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: that it hasn't led to more utter catastrophe, because when

1204
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: that door plug blew out, you know, if they were

1205
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: a little higher in the air, that's it. It's over

1206
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: for that plane as well. So in a lot of ways,

1207
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: we have been very fortunate that there hasn't been more

1208
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: death and destruction thanks to this individual and many others

1209
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: at the company who have pushed profits and speed over

1210
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: safety and making sure that people can feel good when

1211
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: they set foot on their planes. You know, there's also

1212
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: a government tie in here, which you know is important

1213
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 1: to get to as well, which is a part of

1214
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: the like neoliberal era deregulatory push. Multiple administrations caught cross

1215
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: both Republicans and Democrats have you know, stripped back a

1216
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: lot of the safety regulations and have made it so

1217
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: that basically Boeing self certifies their own planes as being safe.

1218
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: This is insane to anyone who is has a brain,

1219
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: you know, but this has been the operating thinking under

1220
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: neoliberalism of basically like, well, they're the experts and we're

1221
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: just the government. We couldn't possibly do as good a

1222
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: job of understanding this as they do, so we're just

1223
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 1: going to kind of outsource this to private industry again

1224
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: with totally predictable results. So that's how we end up

1225
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: in this place, and you know, I think it's really

1226
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: important to dig into these details here on just you know,

1227
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: because of this one individual instance in this company, which

1228
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: is so critical both to obviously passenger safety, but also,

1229
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: as you point out Emily's it's a you know, incredibly

1230
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 1: critical part of our defense industrial complex, but also because

1231
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: of what it says about our economy more broadly. And

1232
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: do you just ask yourself, you know, how many other

1233
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 1: companies that we are trusting our lives to or our

1234
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: help to are engaged in very similar cost cutting, you know,

1235
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 1: corner cutting efforts in order just to juice their stock

1236
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: price in the short.

1237
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 5: Term, right, and with our money, I mean with our

1238
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 5: with taxpayer money, with the trust, the credibility stamp that

1239
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,959
Speaker 5: comes with government, the regulatory revolving door, all of that.

1240
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 5: It's outrageous. And you know, saying that you haven't even

1241
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 5: met with the whistleblowers.

1242
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 4: You're a CEO, you haven't met with the whistleblowers.

1243
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 5: I mean, he said at one point during the testimony

1244
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 5: that a lot of this can be chalked up to

1245
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 5: a quote an untrained workforce. Why if you're a company

1246
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 5: that has a quote steadfast commitment to safety and quality,

1247
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 5: can any of us be chalked up to an untrained workforce.

1248
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 5: Shouldn't your steadfast commitment to safety and quality mean that

1249
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 5: you're not operating with an untrained workforce?

1250
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 4: I mean, what the hell is going wrong with Boeing?

1251
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 5: But more importantly, I mean, this is going something that

1252
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 5: has gone wrong in the entire system. You know, the

1253
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 5: logic that you just mentioned in Crystal, the sort of

1254
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 5: neoliberal logic is that there is no market incentive for

1255
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 5: Boeing to have safety accidents, because then you know, it's

1256
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 5: bad for Boeing's business. They don't get as many contracts

1257
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 5: for the government. Maybe people fly on different plants. That

1258
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 5: doesn't work in the airline industry. What is it going

1259
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 5: to be, like, I'm not taking this flight that's at

1260
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 5: the exact time from the exact place that I need

1261
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 5: to go because it's not airbus.

1262
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 4: It just doesn't like it doesn't work you're at all.

1263
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 5: It's just it's not the place where you can just say, like, oh,

1264
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 5: the market will take care of the safety.

1265
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,240
Speaker 4: And quality problems. Just outrageous.

1266
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 5: Maybe the US government can go to air Bus or

1267
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 5: like maybe, but at this point, there's so much money

1268
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 5: being spent on lobbying, there's so much invested in Boeing

1269
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 5: that it's clearly a company reacting to a horrible system

1270
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 5: of incentives, one that it helped create, no doubt about it.

1271
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 4: But it's a broken syste.

1272
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's right. I mean, you have massive industry

1273
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: consolidation here, and frankly, you know, it's an industry where

1274
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: scale really matters. So it's kind of probably one of

1275
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: these where there's a natural almost near monopoly, which means

1276
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: you have to have additional regulations and scrutiny to ensure

1277
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: that there aren't abusive predatory practices across the board. But

1278
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: you know, even outside of first of all, so many

1279
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 1: of our industries are you know, monopolized in massive consolidation, etc.

1280
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: That that statement applies to many, many, many of our industries.

1281
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 1: But in addition, you know, if you're looking at these

1282
01:07:54,560 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: individual executives Holly Center, Holly was asking Calhoun about, well,

1283
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 1: how much are you making? Much of his compensation will

1284
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 1: come from stock, so he has every incentive. His incentives

1285
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: are one hundred percent aligned for himself personally to you know,

1286
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: do whatever he can to goose the numbers that Wall

1287
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: Street cares about and do stock buybacks in all of

1288
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: this other market manipulation which should be illegal but isn't

1289
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 1: in order to jack up the stock price because that

1290
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 1: goes directly into his pocket.

1291
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:27,759
Speaker 3: And then he's not going to be CEO forever.

1292
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 1: He's betting that, you know, by the time the problems emerged,

1293
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 1: he would be gone. Now, unfortunately for him, the problems

1294
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 1: merged and he's not gone. But guess what he gets

1295
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: to step down. I'm sure he's gonna get. He's already

1296
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 1: fattened his bank account to many millions of dollars, probably

1297
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: getting a nice retirement package, golden parachute, et cetera. Since

1298
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:50,839
Speaker 1: he's voluntarily stepping down so for his own personal interest,

1299
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,839
Speaker 1: even though it meant costing the lives of many people,

1300
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: these decisions worked out for him. And that's the sort

1301
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: of when I talk about like the short termism, those

1302
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 1: are the sort of incentives that are consistent across basically

1303
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: every public company you know, American public company, multinational public

1304
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: company that exists. And so that's why this idea that like, oh, well,

1305
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: you know, they of course they're incentivized to make safe

1306
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: products because if they don't and there's a problem, the

1307
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: market will punish them. That's why that very like, you know,

1308
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 1: high minded, almost idealistic, like you know, classic libertarian view.

1309
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: That's why when it meets up with the real world

1310
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: and the way these companies are structured, in the way

1311
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: executive compensation is structured specifically, why that does not work

1312
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: out at all in the real world. And we see

1313
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: examples of this across industries, you know, not just in

1314
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: the airline industry, but this is a particularly dramatic and

1315
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: consequential case in point.

1316
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, especially in industries that do have, like

1317
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 5: you were mentioning natural monopolies. You know, it's worth mentioning

1318
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 5: right now that Boeing stock is still selling higher than

1319
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 5: it was in twenty sixteen. It was up roots, really

1320
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 5: high in twenty eighteen, so it's down a lot twenty nineteen.

1321
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 5: I think it's down a lot from that, but still

1322
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 5: stilling higher than it was in twenty sixteen. Still, you know,

1323
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,799
Speaker 5: not tanking, because when companies are too big to fail,

1324
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 5: their incentives are not in all, in any way aligned

1325
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 5: with what we're told the market will take care of

1326
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 5: that much is for sure. Speaking of utter corruption at

1327
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 5: the Pentagon, Glenn Greenwald is going to be joining us

1328
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 5: after this to talk about in absolutely insane Pentagon op.

1329
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 5: You have to stick around for this segment because Reuters

1330
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 5: blew the lid off a crazy story this week about

1331
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:42,520
Speaker 5: how the Pentagon ran an operation to undermine the Chinese

1332
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:46,719
Speaker 5: vaccine in countries where it could have saved a whole

1333
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,799
Speaker 5: lot of lives. So we will be talking to Glenn

1334
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 5: about that right after this what we're excited to be

1335
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 5: joined now by Glenn Greenwald, host of System Update.

1336
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 4: A wonderful program. Glenn, thanks for joining the show.

1337
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:03,719
Speaker 9: Always great to be with you, guys. Thanks for asking.

1338
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 4: Now.

1339
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 5: The story we're here to talk about was blown. The

1340
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 5: Ruters blew the lid off of this insane story about

1341
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 5: a Pentagon operation targeted at people in the Philippines who

1342
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,439
Speaker 5: could have benefited from the Chinese COVID vaccine sign of VAC.

1343
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 5: A lot of people might have remembered some of the

1344
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 5: coverage surrounding it at the time, but what we didn't

1345
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 5: know is that the Pentagon was running. As the router's

1346
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 5: headline you can see on your screen there says a

1347
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 5: quote anti vax campaign that was aimed at actually just

1348
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 5: undermining China's status in the Philippines. Obviously at a critical

1349
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 5: time in the way the Pentagon sees it for the

1350
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 5: relationship between the Philippines and China, but used this vaccine

1351
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 5: as an opening to come in and try to sow distrust.

1352
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 5: And you know, Glenn, it's likely that lives were lost

1353
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 5: as a result of this campaign from China or from

1354
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 5: the United States Pentagon.

1355
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,759
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's so many amazing aspects of this story.

1356
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 7: And I do think we should begin as critics of

1357
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 7: corporate media. All three of us are to acknowledge that

1358
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 7: this is actually the kind of investigative reporting. I wish

1359
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 7: these large media outlets did more of where they're not

1360
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 7: exposing bad acts by foreign governments were told to hate,

1361
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 7: but actually the things that our own government does, those

1362
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 7: are the things we most need to hear.

1363
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 9: And this was.

1364
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 7: Actually a very not just good investigation, but well reported

1365
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 7: article on on this program, And there's so many aspects

1366
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 7: to it. First of all, this is done at a

1367
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 7: time when we were being told that there's nothing graver

1368
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 7: or worse or more immoral than for one country to

1369
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 7: interfere into the political discourse of other countries using covert

1370
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 7: disinformation campaigns and fake Twitter and Facebook bots, And of

1371
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 7: course the United States has been doing that for so

1372
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 7: long it has been doing it, not just since the

1373
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 7: Cold War, but even recently. And that's why this idea

1374
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 7: that oh, Russia had stepped so far to the line

1375
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 7: of decency and we'll see by putting up Twitter box

1376
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 7: in the like in twenty.

1377
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 9: Sixteen was such a joke. Not because it wasn't wrong when.

1378
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 7: Rushers doing it, was because it's completely standard practice that

1379
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 7: our own government does constantly, as this investigation in so

1380
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 7: many other show. But the other aspect of it is

1381
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 7: this is being done at a time when if you

1382
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 7: were an American citizen and raising doubts about the vaccine,

1383
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 7: either its efficacy or its safety, you would almost immediately

1384
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 7: be banned from being heard online at the demand of

1385
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 7: the US government. You could lose your job, if you

1386
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 7: didn't take the vaccine, you would lose the ability to

1387
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:39,719
Speaker 7: have free movement. So our government was imposing this demand

1388
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 7: that we take the vaccine, that nobody questioned the vaccine,

1389
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 7: and at the same time, our government was engaged in

1390
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 7: a secret disinformation campaign using fake Twitter and Facebook profiles

1391
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 7: and the like in order to manipulate people in the

1392
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 7: Philippines but also in the Middle East not to take

1393
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:58,480
Speaker 7: the vaccine.

1394
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 9: That China was offering for free.

1395
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 7: They were trying to help the people in the region,

1396
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 7: whether for motives of self interest or whatever, while the

1397
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 7: United States has basically told Buyser and the other health

1398
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 7: pharmacoup companies, you can sell to the rest of the

1399
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 7: world for whatever prices you want.

1400
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,440
Speaker 9: So they were really trying to prevent.

1401
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 7: People from taking a vaccine that in the United States

1402
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 7: they were telling us was a lifesaving vaccine that we

1403
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 7: had to take. And the motive was so hideous, which

1404
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 7: was to drag these people away from China and force

1405
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 7: them to buy from American pharmacoup companies in order to

1406
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 7: separate these countries from China.

1407
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in the Philippines there was reportedly a lot

1408
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 1: of vaccine hesitation. In any case, they were having a

1409
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: lot of trouble getting their population to take the vaccine.

1410
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 1: And then the campaign here was sona Faarius. Let's put

1411
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 1: e one b up on the screen that has some

1412
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 1: of the details of this propaganda campaign.

1413
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 3: They say.

1414
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 1: Tailoring the propaganda campaign to local audiences across Central Asia

1415
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 1: and the Middle East, The Pentagon used a combination of

1416
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 1: fake social media accounts on multiple platforms to spread fear

1417
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: of China's vaccines among Muslims at a time when the

1418
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: virus was killing tens of thousands of people each day.

1419
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 3: A key part of the strategy.

1420
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: Amplify the disputed contention that because vaccines sometimes contained pork gelatine,

1421
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 1: China's shots could be considered forbidden under Islamic law.

1422
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 3: And you know, there's a whole lot.

1423
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: Of reasons why this is disgusting and immoral, But to

1424
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 1: your point, Glenn, one of the things that's most outrageous

1425
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 1: is that our vaccine program, because we put the emphasis

1426
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 1: on profits for drug companies and basically took priority for

1427
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:42,639
Speaker 1: ourselves over obtaining access to the vaccine, we left much

1428
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 1: of the rest of the world out in the cold,

1429
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: so that you know, getting them majerder or the finite

1430
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 1: Pfizer vaccine, that was not a possibility for the Philippines.

1431
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 1: They really were dependent on the Sinovac. So to have

1432
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 1: this type of disinformation it really I mean, you know,

1433
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 1: and that word has been thrown around so much, but

1434
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 1: it really is an outrageous abuse that apparently came over

1435
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 1: the objections of the State Department too, who were also

1436
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 1: concerned about what this could do to our relationship with

1437
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 1: the Philippines.

1438
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 7: As well as health professionals inside the United States, some

1439
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 7: of whom resigned, like senior health officials resigned, and then

1440
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 7: they went to a bunch of you know, profaulcy types

1441
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 7: like medical professionals were interested after the fact and revealed

1442
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 7: what was done, and they were horrified.

1443
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 9: I mean, this is not the first time, by the way,

1444
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 9: the United States did this.

1445
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:30,760
Speaker 7: The United States had a program in Pakistan in order

1446
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 7: to try and find Oslama bin Laden and to spy

1447
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 7: on Pakistan where they were going around basically convincing pakistanis

1448
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 7: to have skepticism over various vaccines that the United States

1449
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 7: have been obligatory, and I think this is the key

1450
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:43,679
Speaker 7: point Christal.

1451
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 9: Obviously there are.

1452
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 7: Still people in the United States who have skepticism over

1453
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 7: the vaccines that we used that Pfizer and the rest

1454
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 7: were giving to us, which is one thing. But nobody

1455
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 7: actually believes that the Chinese vaccine was worse in any

1456
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 7: way in terms of efficacy, in terms of danger. So

1457
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 7: it wasn't like there was any valid reason to be

1458
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:07,600
Speaker 7: warning the world about the Chinese vaccine in terms of

1459
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 7: whether or not people should be taking.

1460
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:09,839
Speaker 9: It for health reasons.

1461
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 7: The only reason to do it was to undermine China,

1462
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,799
Speaker 7: and even if that meant convincing people that the Chinese vaccine,

1463
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 7: the only one that they could get, was dangerous or evil,

1464
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 7: or heretical or anti religious, we were willing to allow

1465
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 7: people to die by not getting the vaccine. In the

1466
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 7: perspective the United States help establishment for our own reasons.

1467
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 9: And that I think is the key too.

1468
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 7: Is The context for this was that the Trump administration

1469
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:40,520
Speaker 7: negotiated under the banner of America first, that these pharmacaul

1470
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 7: companies were required to give priority to American citizens, to

1471
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 7: give you very good prices to selling the American market

1472
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:50,599
Speaker 7: that made it affordable. And in exchange, they were told,

1473
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,040
Speaker 7: you can gouge the rest of the world however you

1474
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 7: want and charge them whenever you want for the vaccine,

1475
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 7: and these companies did exactly that.

1476
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 9: Of course, because their profit motivated.

1477
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:00,720
Speaker 7: China stepped into that breed, knowing that there are a

1478
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 7: lot of poor countries that couldn't buy the vaccine, and

1479
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 7: offered to give their vaccine essentially for free. And that

1480
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:11,719
Speaker 7: was the relationship. We tried to impede in part again

1481
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 7: to prevent these countries from having gratitude towards China, but

1482
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 7: also in part to force these poor countries to pay

1483
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 7: exorbitant prices to these pharmaceutical companies that were drowning in

1484
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 7: profit already. It's so immoral, it's so hypocritical, and it's actually,

1485
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 7: you know, it's repugnant if the position of the United

1486
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 7: States government is true, which is that these vaccines are

1487
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 7: life saving and you need to take them to protect

1488
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 7: yourself against COVID, to convince people not to take them

1489
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 7: the only option that they have.

1490
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,560
Speaker 9: If you think about, you know, what the United States.

1491
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 7: Government was saying at the time, what they were believing

1492
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 7: at the time, It's hard to find anything more repulsive

1493
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 7: than that.

1494
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:48,280
Speaker 4: And they've been hand rigging.

1495
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:50,080
Speaker 5: I mean, these are the same people that are handering

1496
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 5: over the propaganda operation on TikTok that is allegedly coming

1497
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 5: from the Chinese Communist Party. You know, they'll say it's

1498
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 5: all CCP propaganda on TikTok that was manipulating them and public. Well,

1499
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 5: they're doing the same thing, and I don't doubt that

1500
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 5: China is doing some of this as well. But I

1501
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 5: want to read actually one of the tweets because just

1502
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 5: so people get or one of the fake tweets so

1503
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 5: people get a feel for what it was. COVID came

1504
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 5: from China, and the vaccine also came from China. Don't

1505
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 5: trust China from China Ppe face Max vaccine fake, but

1506
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:22,599
Speaker 5: the coronavirus is real and it was like a weird

1507
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 5: meme picture of a syringe. All of this continued into

1508
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:29,559
Speaker 5: the Biden administration, started under the Trump administration, continued into

1509
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 5: the Biden administration. Reuter's actually got a senior Defense Department

1510
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 5: official to confirm that they had run a secret propaganda operation.

1511
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 5: When Twitter looked at some of the tweets that were identified,

1512
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 5: they actually took them down and said, this looked like

1513
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 5: a coordinated bot campaign. So, Glenn, I mean, it's not

1514
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 5: news to anybody that the American sort of intelligence avaratus

1515
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 5: has little respect for people in other countries when they

1516
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 5: engage in some of this. But it's almost like a

1517
01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 5: you couldn't write satire like this to some extent, because

1518
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 5: it's literally the lives of people in other countries that

1519
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 5: are being threatened directly by some stupid, mean campaign on x.

1520
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 9: Well, I think.

1521
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:13,800
Speaker 7: And again, the context here is that basically the main

1522
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 7: political scandal that we were drowning in for three or

1523
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 7: four years that we're likely to hear again is that

1524
01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 7: Russia is a uniquely evil country because of their willingness

1525
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:28,040
Speaker 7: to use disinformation campaigns to interfere in the political discourse

1526
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 7: and the elections of other countries. And of course, and

1527
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,559
Speaker 7: this is by far not the first time that the

1528
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 7: United States got caught doing this. They had a whole

1529
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 7: fake Twitter account, a whole fake Twitter platform in Cuba

1530
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:40,719
Speaker 7: to destabilize the Cuban government.

1531
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:42,719
Speaker 9: They've been doing this sort of thing everywhere.

1532
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 7: We just learned that Israel has a similar campaign to

1533
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 7: manipulate Americans to be more pro Israel using bake accounts.

1534
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 7: So that part of it is just so infuriating that,

1535
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:53,560
Speaker 7: you know, we were so angered and have such indignation

1536
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 7: over Russia did when we're obviously doing not just the same,

1537
01:20:57,360 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 7: but far worse.

1538
01:20:58,280 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 9: The other detail I think.

1539
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 7: Is really interesting, Emily, is that Facebook immediately detected this.

1540
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 7: They had, you know, their algorithmic monitors that detected that

1541
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:13,400
Speaker 7: this was a false governmental disinformation campaign. And they called

1542
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 7: the Pentagon in anger, and the Pentagon said, yeah, you

1543
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 7: caught us, You're right, but don't worry, we won't do

1544
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 7: anything more regarding COVID, because, of course, the US government

1545
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 7: was constantly demanding that Facebook removed vaccine skepticism from their

1546
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:29,560
Speaker 7: own platform, and they did. They banned all kinds of

1547
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 7: Americans at the behast of the US government. And then

1548
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 7: Facebook was watching the US government spread vaccine skepticism with

1549
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,519
Speaker 7: false spacies in other countries, and the government said, Oh,

1550
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 7: don't worry, we won't use it for COVID anymore. We're

1551
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 7: just using it against China, and they continued to do it,

1552
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,640
Speaker 7: and of course the excuse of the US government was

1553
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 7: what we had to retaliate for disinformation the Chinese were

1554
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 7: spreading about US, trying to insinuate that, you know, ground

1555
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 7: zero for this COVID vaccine was an American service member,

1556
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 7: or that it might have come from for Dietrich, which

1557
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 7: is the lab that produced the anthra attacked. But the

1558
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 7: victims weren't the Chinese. The victims were the poorest people

1559
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 7: in the world who had no other way to get

1560
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 7: a vaccine other than by taking it from China, and

1561
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 7: they were misled and just seeded into believing that it

1562
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 7: would be a dangerous vaccine, that it could kill them,

1563
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:18,840
Speaker 7: that it was against their religion. And these were all lies.

1564
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 7: It'd be one thing if that were true, but these

1565
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 7: were all.

1566
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: Lies, Glenn, What does this incident also tell us about

1567
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: the overwhelming commitment to this new Cold War with China

1568
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 1: and also the efficacy of our approach to foreign policy

1569
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 1: versus there. So on our side, we're hoarding the vaccines

1570
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:43,600
Speaker 1: for ourselves, We're running a syop on the Filipino population

1571
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:46,799
Speaker 1: and trying to bully and strong arm them to paying

1572
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 1: astronomical prices for the vaccines that our for profit companies

1573
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 1: are creating. And on the other hand, China is saying, hey,

1574
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,720
Speaker 1: we create a vaccine here, We'll help you out here,

1575
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 1: we'll provide this for you. And this did come with

1576
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:04,920
Speaker 1: some foreign policy consequences. You know, the Filipinos dropped an

1577
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:07,640
Speaker 1: objection that they had, you know, a key objection that

1578
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 1: they had to China's influence in the South China Sea.

1579
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 1: So what does this tell you about this obsession with

1580
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 1: this new Cold war visa of each China that we

1581
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 1: would even be willing to this is not just dangerous

1582
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 1: for Filipinos, but you know, in a global pandemic, these

1583
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 1: things don't stay within the borders of one country either.

1584
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 1: This also contained additional global risk for sure.

1585
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 7: I mean, there's you know, an obvious visible trend where

1586
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 7: countries and regions that were once under the exclusive influence

1587
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,839
Speaker 7: and dominance of the United States and its NATO allies

1588
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 7: in Western Europe have been migrating, not all that slowly,

1589
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 7: rather rapidly in fact, to an alliance that is led

1590
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 7: by China, the Bricks Alliance that has India and South

1591
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 7: Africa and Brazil along with China and Russia. And there's

1592
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 7: this really fascinating speech that was given by Fiona Hill,

1593
01:23:56,040 --> 01:24:00,879
Speaker 7: who is a kind of very hawkish American foreign policy advisors.

1594
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 7: She was a protege of John Bolton. She worked in

1595
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,639
Speaker 7: the Trump White House, super hawkish on China and Russia.

1596
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:08,360
Speaker 7: She gave a speech last year to European elites in

1597
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 7: which she warned that the reason in China is being

1598
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 7: so successful in recruiting countries onto each side to prefer

1599
01:24:15,280 --> 01:24:17,839
Speaker 7: to do business with China, to have be in China's

1600
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 7: sphere is because there is a worldwide perception that the

1601
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 7: United States abuses its power as the sole Hegemont through

1602
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 7: wars of the kind that the world perceives they're feeling

1603
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:28,800
Speaker 7: in Ukraine.

1604
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 9: Whether you believe that or not that's how the world

1605
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 9: perceives it.

1606
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:33,840
Speaker 7: And the war in Israel, that is, of course the

1607
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,080
Speaker 7: United States is behind as well, the war in Gaza,

1608
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 7: but also this kind of disinformation campaign. And so the

1609
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 7: more we looked like we're these sort of hypocritical bullies,

1610
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 7: it's not just that, oh, it's a bad thing to

1611
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 7: do for us, it's actually very harmful to our interests.

1612
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 7: And if China really is our great adversary, which is

1613
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 7: what we're being told to the point of, we are

1614
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 7: kind of on the verge of at best, a cold

1615
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 7: war of the kind that you know, consumes all resources

1616
01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 7: for the military and the intelligence community. It's the worst

1617
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 7: possible thing to do if we're really worried about China,

1618
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 7: to do engage in behavior like this that is precisely

1619
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 7: what China successfully exploits when convincing the rest of the

1620
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:10,760
Speaker 7: world that is not in their interest to live in

1621
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 7: a US dominated global order, right.

1622
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:16,040
Speaker 5: Because it undermines the credibility that the United States is

1623
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 5: claiming to bring to the table. And everybody can see

1624
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:20,640
Speaker 5: it playing out, everyone can read reiters.

1625
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:25,000
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just stupid, it's not even clever.

1626
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 5: They're not even doing a good job at their bullshit propaganda.

1627
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 7: Yeah. I mean you know you you listen to any

1628
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:36,680
Speaker 7: interview with any kind of authoritarian or dictator type and

1629
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 7: say parts of Asia, or parts of Africa or parts

1630
01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 7: of South America, and you raise the issue of press

1631
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:44,840
Speaker 7: freedom with them, and they're going to immediately say, who

1632
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:46,639
Speaker 7: were you to lecture us on press freedom? You took

1633
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 7: the most consequential journalist of in the West, and you

1634
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 7: have him in a dungeon for ten years, and you

1635
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,599
Speaker 7: want to kill him and keep him in prison for life,

1636
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 7: meaning joying assan. This kind of hypocrisy works if you

1637
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:02,639
Speaker 7: are the only power in town. People might be angry

1638
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 7: at you, but no one can really challenge you. We

1639
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:06,880
Speaker 7: are now basically in a multi polar world. I mean,

1640
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 7: China has become this genuine powerhouse economically and militarily, and

1641
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 7: at the same time, while we're constantly told that China

1642
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 7: is this aggressive and militaristic country. Since nineteen seventy nine,

1643
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 7: the US has spot dozens of wars and China has

1644
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 7: fought a grand total of zero A wars.

1645
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:26,799
Speaker 9: Nineteen seventy nine was the last war China ever fought.

1646
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:29,719
Speaker 7: It was a one month worder dispute with Cambodia and Vietnam,

1647
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 7: and since then not a single war. And if you

1648
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 7: look at a map, there's US basis surrounding China. The

1649
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 7: rest of the world sees it. The American population doesn't,

1650
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:40,000
Speaker 7: because we're constantly propagandized to believe that we're this nice,

1651
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:42,960
Speaker 7: peaceful country and China is the evil aggressor. But that's

1652
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 7: not how the rest of the world sees it, because

1653
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:49,719
Speaker 7: it's actually not true. And where if we're really worried

1654
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:52,479
Speaker 7: about Chinese influence in Chinese dominance to behavior in which

1655
01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:54,800
Speaker 7: we're engaging at the kind of writers just exposed so

1656
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 7: many other things is basically the worst possible thing you

1657
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 7: can do to undermine what you claim our American trust

1658
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 7: Viasily China.

1659
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 1: I think that is all incredibly well said Glenn. It's

1660
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:06,680
Speaker 1: always great to get to chat with you. Thank you

1661
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 1: so much for taking some time with us.

1662
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1663
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:10,559
Speaker 9: Always good to be with you guys. Thanks Sarah for

1664
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 9: having our pleasure.

1665
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:13,639
Speaker 4: All right, Well that does it for us.

1666
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:17,640
Speaker 5: On today's edition of Counterpoints, Crystal, it's always fun to

1667
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:19,680
Speaker 5: do a show with you, as fun as it can

1668
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:23,480
Speaker 5: be when you're talking about I guess like the impending apocalypse.

1669
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:28,920
Speaker 3: Yes, fun is how we have fun. But always an enjoyable.

1670
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 1: Conversation with Emily is stimulating, intell actually stimulating conversation with you, Emily,

1671
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 1: I'm always happy to do it.

1672
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 5: Likewise, well, we will be back here on Friday. Ryan

1673
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 5: and I taped a really really cool conversation with the

1674
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 5: one and only Matt Tayibe on the arc of his career.

1675
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 5: If you haven't ever sort of done a deep dive

1676
01:27:45,479 --> 01:27:50,879
Speaker 5: on Matt Tayibe, a lot of his career started in Russia. Actually,

1677
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 5: well first the Soviet Union, we talked to him about that,

1678
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 5: and then as the AIG Arcs were kind of scrambling

1679
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:59,000
Speaker 5: for property and Russia, Matt Taibi was there to chronicle

1680
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:01,200
Speaker 5: all of it. Talk to him about that, about the

1681
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:05,680
Speaker 5: Twitter files, about Elon Musk. It's a really cool conversation

1682
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:08,719
Speaker 5: with a fascinating person. So that will be on Friday,

1683
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:10,719
Speaker 5: Breakingpoints dot com if you want to get it early

1684
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 5: Thursday night, straight to your inbox. Crystal looking forward to

1685
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:15,040
Speaker 5: having Taibian.

1686
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, looking forward to checking that one out. And you

1687
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,920
Speaker 1: guys should all check that on as well and make

1688
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 1: sure you support us over at breakingpoints dot com. So

1689
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:25,839
Speaker 1: we can continue expanding as we did with Counterpoints Friday,

1690
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 1: which I've it's just been it's been really fun to

1691
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:29,519
Speaker 1: watch what you and Ride I've done with that.

1692
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 4: It's been a blast.

1693
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:34,120
Speaker 5: And Glenn was that made even by my favorite episode

1694
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:37,120
Speaker 5: so far, Glenn and Ilios Shapiro on Israel. People should

1695
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 5: check that one out Campus Podcasts. Crystal, you'll be back

1696
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:41,200
Speaker 5: here with Sager tomorrow.

1697
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 1: All right, I will busy lady this week. Yeah, all right.

1698
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,559
Speaker 5: Well I'll see you back here. I'll be watching everyone.

1699
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for tuning in. We appreciate the support,

1700
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:53,719
Speaker 5: and we will see you back here. Crystal and Sager

1701
01:28:53,720 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 5: will see you back here tomorrow.