Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Hey, what's up? And welcome to Let's Red
Speaker 1: Table that I'm Tracy t Rowe and I am Cala Pressley.
Speaker 1: What's going on in your world? Tracy? How are you
Speaker 1: feeling today? You know what I'm feeling every day? Amazing
Speaker 1: and i know you're feeling successful and I'm glad about it.
Speaker 1: I am so glad about it. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: this episode was This episode was definitely hot. The awareness
Speaker 1: for alopecia, the acceptance for alopecia, and the empowerment for alopecia.
Speaker 1: This episode was pivotal, I think to so many people
Speaker 1: turning the corner on understanding checking themselves in their own
Speaker 1: hair privilege. Hello, there's so many things we take for granted,
Speaker 1: and you think you don't have to worry about waking up,
Speaker 1: getting in the shower and having your hair falling out
Speaker 1: in the shower. People have to experience that. Jada experienced
Speaker 1: that and the trauma that's associated with that. It's sad
Speaker 1: that they're so little acceptance for people that are going
Speaker 1: through issues period, but especially with their hair. People are
Speaker 1: so dangle mean. They are mean and again not realizing
Speaker 1: even what it truly is. Some things are just not controllable.
Speaker 1: It may cause a lot of women people men to say,
Speaker 1: am I the problem? When it maybe their body attacking them?
Speaker 1: And these instances is what I'm really realizing. So it's
Speaker 1: so many things that are untapped, so many different variables
Speaker 1: that can contribute to alopecia, and they covered a good
Speaker 1: number of them on the episode. Let's talk about what
Speaker 1: alopecia is. Listen, Alopecia is an umbrella term for hair loss.
Speaker 1: Right there in that one sentence opens up the narrative
Speaker 1: to change it from just a woman thing or some
Speaker 1: type of shame thing, or it's just an umbrella, overarching
Speaker 1: term for hair loss. It can affect your scalp or
Speaker 1: your entire body. It can be temporary or it can
Speaker 1: be permanent. And there are three main types of alopecia
Speaker 1: with different causes and treatments, and we're going to dive
Speaker 1: into some of those deeper in today's episode. There was
Speaker 1: a super proud moment for me in the episode, and
Speaker 1: there was a super heartbreaking sad moment for me in
Speaker 1: the episode. This super heartbreak of course, real story. We
Speaker 1: gotta talk you story. Yeah, that was hard in general,
Speaker 1: and her mother we got to talk about that. We
Speaker 1: will be remiss if we didn't. And her birthday is
Speaker 1: right around this time, and so we just like to
Speaker 1: say happy heavenly birthday to Rio. Your light is still
Speaker 1: shining brightly, and the beacon that you started for understanding
Speaker 1: awareness and acceptance for alopecia patients lives on. Yes, and
Speaker 1: your story will change lives definitely will. One thing also
Speaker 1: that I know we tapped into it this episode. There
Speaker 1: was no cure for alopecia. There's no real cure for
Speaker 1: But I'm excited about today's guests because we do have
Speaker 1: a story of where her hair came back, so I'm
Speaker 1: interested to hear and have her share exactly what that
Speaker 1: was like and what that experience was like. And we
Speaker 1: had the super proud moment in the it wasn't in
Speaker 1: the episode that was an add on with the fantastic
Speaker 1: and beautiful first ever Sports illustrated baldy. Yes, yeah, that
Speaker 1: was beautiful. It's good to just see the evolution of
Speaker 1: these humans on the same planet that I live on.
Speaker 1: These two guests today were the epitome of taking what
Speaker 1: you have and literally making the most of it in
Speaker 1: the face of what could be a life altering, damaging adversity.
Speaker 1: Now you talk about proud, I'm proud of them, and
Speaker 1: that's love the people men and women who have had
Speaker 1: experiences or having experiences with alibisia. Our community is our backbone,
Speaker 1: and we've loved to hear from you. We've asked our
Speaker 1: community what does your hair mean to you? And here
Speaker 1: are some of your answers. One of our viewers said,
Speaker 1: there was a time when my soul called beauty was
Speaker 1: all too pendent on my hair. I know that's that struggle.
Speaker 1: Now at my age, after growth and experience, my hair
Speaker 1: speaks to my individuality and lifestyle. I would hate to
Speaker 1: think that someone is less confident or feels like an
Speaker 1: outcast because of having a condition. That's not the fault
Speaker 1: of theirs. I think we need to reevaluate our standards
Speaker 1: of beauty and redefine it in a more personal and
Speaker 1: organic way. That is from Diane Feeling Cook, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate her perspective because we definitely need to reevaluate standards.
Speaker 1: And I realized in my personal life journey, once someone
Speaker 1: shares what they've been through, people are a lot more empathetic.
Speaker 1: So it's really more about the storytellers. We gotta tell
Speaker 1: us story that's the truth. Our other community member, LaToya
Speaker 1: Ford said, people don't really know what going through alopecia
Speaker 1: is like I have had alopecia since sixteen. It started
Speaker 1: with the spot and by twenty one I was completely bald.
Speaker 1: My alopecia affects my whole body, not just my scalp.
Speaker 1: Took me till forty to embrace it. Why Toya, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for sharing that. Absolutely, thank you for
Speaker 1: those comments from our audience because they were dope. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break, but when we get back,
Speaker 1: we'll be joined by two incredible guests from our Red
Speaker 1: Table Talk community. We're bringing to fellow RTT community members
Speaker 1: to let's red table back. That's right cool. A van
Speaker 1: sil is joining us today to share about her own
Speaker 1: journey with alopecia, which started when she was just fifteen
Speaker 1: years old when she found a small ball spot on
Speaker 1: her head. It grew bigger and bigger, which probably was
Speaker 1: just terrorizing. He don't know what to do with that, right,
Speaker 1: But she masked those spots with carefully planned shaved designs
Speaker 1: because she just cool like that, and also wigs for
Speaker 1: many years until cool at alopecia actually went away. So
Speaker 1: I love that part of her story and just how
Speaker 1: you know she transition. She loved it first and so
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear more about how you were
Speaker 1: able to get your hair back and just hear about
Speaker 1: your whole experience altogether. Thank you for coming on Let's
Speaker 1: Red Table with that to share cool. Yes, thank you
Speaker 1: for the invite. I am super excited to people cool.
Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear about your journey and Jericho Jackson,
Speaker 1: Miss Jackson, if you're nasty, it's joining Let's Red Table
Speaker 1: that from Virginia Beach to share about her own alopecia journey.
Speaker 1: It started for her fifteen years ago when she discovered
Speaker 1: her first alopecia ariata spot. Since then, she's been on
Speaker 1: a path that started with avoidance of her hair loss,
Speaker 1: but has moved into acceptance and a newfound passion of
Speaker 1: wig styling and even creation. We are excited for you
Speaker 1: to be here with us today. We can't wait to
Speaker 1: hear about your journey and your weird creation. Come on here, Jericho,
Speaker 1: right hey, jack thank you, thank you, thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. I appreciate the opportunity to come share my
Speaker 1: experience and this journey. So we're gonna jump into it.
Speaker 1: This is our wait What segment. Okay, let's say it
Speaker 1: again part of the show. This is Wait What where
Speaker 1: we reveal which moments made us pause, rewind, and listen
Speaker 1: all over again. So one of the first moments, let's
Speaker 1: just jump into it, was Rio's mom saying that she
Speaker 1: was torn over reading her daughter's final letter because once
Speaker 1: she sees it, there will be nothing left to say.
Speaker 1: You know, I haven't seen the first one, and I'm
Speaker 1: really torn on that because no answer is going to
Speaker 1: be good enough. But also that's literally all she wrote.
Speaker 1: It was a very heavy part of the episode. Would
Speaker 1: you all wanna wait to Arena find a letter from
Speaker 1: a loved one? How did you feel? Watching that? Kind
Speaker 1: of leaves your speechless? I mean, I can definitely understand
Speaker 1: where she's coming from, being a parent and just knowing
Speaker 1: that his final, their final thoughts, their final everything. So
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how she feels, but I definitely understand
Speaker 1: probably just gives her something to hold on to. You know,
Speaker 1: I shared the story several times. I've lost my brother.
Speaker 1: I find myself still going back through the box of
Speaker 1: like his final things that I have know exactly what's
Speaker 1: in there. But the other day I realized he had
Speaker 1: signed his name on a piece of paper, so it
Speaker 1: was just like another, Oh, look that's him signing some right.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just does something different, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: does something different. Wait, what number two in our list
Speaker 1: is when Dr Mina said, I have patients who significant
Speaker 1: others and their family members haven't seen their scalps and
Speaker 1: years because they have to hide it even at home.
Speaker 1: I'm not defering and not being able to show things
Speaker 1: what happens when you're in that space. That's definitely me. Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I don't, but I just don't.
Speaker 1: My kids, I don't think they would matter. But I
Speaker 1: just think it's a comfort thing for me. I think
Speaker 1: it's either or, and this is a journey, so it's
Speaker 1: about comfortability. And I do feel like I'm on my
Speaker 1: journey to just go on all bald. I'm not there
Speaker 1: yet and it's just being comfortable, but I feel that
Speaker 1: I can. But that's just not what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I love, first of all
Speaker 1: is a woman. We get a choice, but that's a
Speaker 1: black woman. You get to rock your hair anyway you choose,
Speaker 1: and I love that you can make a weird looks
Speaker 1: like you got a anchio hair, you got come down
Speaker 1: your back, you got curly, you got a straight. You
Speaker 1: can wear it however you want or none at all.
Speaker 1: And so that's the beauty of you being comfortable in
Speaker 1: your own skin. And so I appreciate and affirmed the
Speaker 1: fact that you don't want to share your scalp right
Speaker 1: now with your family members, and you get that choice.
Speaker 1: But it's coming though, It's coming. Oh I see it
Speaker 1: coming to you could tell yes, it's coming. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you're planning to do it or your level of comfort
Speaker 1: is increasing, because that's probably the only hairstyle that I
Speaker 1: haven't rocked that you call the hairstyle. Maybe it's a
Speaker 1: cup style, but that's the only thing thing that I
Speaker 1: have not done long, short, different colors, curly. That's still
Speaker 1: part of the journey as well, not saying that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do it forever, but you're just's gonna be a
Speaker 1: time where I'm gonna go take pictures. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: my big thing that you know what I did it.
Speaker 1: This is completely me. I may change my week three
Speaker 1: times a day four times and she will, Okay, I've
Speaker 1: been like, when your hair down, your back off right,
Speaker 1: you look good. Don't know, it looks so good you forget.
Speaker 1: I find that refreshing because I'm the total opposite. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable with wigs. I've only had natural hair,
Speaker 1: and since I was like sixteen, I've never had straight hair.
Speaker 1: So when I do like plays or something and they
Speaker 1: want me to put a wig on, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: it's foreign to me. Another way, what moment for me
Speaker 1: was about men. I was diagnosed with alopecia and two
Speaker 1: thousand and twelve, and just like Jada, I lost all
Speaker 1: my hair in the shower. It felt like hair was
Speaker 1: in my hands, and I looked into the mirror and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you. Tears started to roll
Speaker 1: down my cheeks and I started to question my worth,
Speaker 1: my value, my identity. Oftentimes people think of alopecia and
Speaker 1: they just think it's women, But what do you think
Speaker 1: about the episode and from their perspective for them being
Speaker 1: able to share their own journeys to my alopecia journey
Speaker 1: caused me to go to barbera school, Wow, and a
Speaker 1: lot of my clientele were older men who we're going
Speaker 1: through alopecia. So when I had to go to Barbara class,
Speaker 1: we learned about the different types of alopecia. And it's
Speaker 1: weird because alopecia is feminized, but when someone says of
Speaker 1: receiving Helline, we automatically think men, and we never equate
Speaker 1: that word alopecia to men. And it's weird because they're
Speaker 1: the most prevalent in the alopecia community. Is that they
Speaker 1: are they really are. That makes sense though, when it's
Speaker 1: get the horseshoe, when they get the thinning, and it
Speaker 1: starts early. Some start alopecia at eighteen. That just deal.
Speaker 1: They don't get the pleasures of trying a new hairstyle
Speaker 1: and trying locks or corn rolls, whatever. They just have
Speaker 1: to cut it off and just rock their baldy for life.
Speaker 1: It's expected of men not to be vain like that. Wow,
Speaker 1: we have so much that we can unpack with this episode,
Speaker 1: and especially since both of you have had your own
Speaker 1: personal journey with this. So what did you think of
Speaker 1: this episode and how did it connect with you. I
Speaker 1: think that it came to my aha moment or the
Speaker 1: moment that I said, it's not out of a jericha.
Speaker 1: People lose hair for all types of reasons. They lose
Speaker 1: it for cancer, burn victims. It just felt like there's
Speaker 1: some people who are not going to get it. But
Speaker 1: there has to be someone who is going through it.
Speaker 1: And you usually need to see someone because if everybody
Speaker 1: is wearing wigs and sometimes you just don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: the person that can take this and have the confidence
Speaker 1: for people who may not have and I will change
Speaker 1: it two or three times a day, change the color
Speaker 1: of the length of style, and for people to look
Speaker 1: and say, did she just change her hair? Yes, I
Speaker 1: did as she did, and it's okay. I want to
Speaker 1: say though, for both of you, you guys took what
Speaker 1: was in front of you and turned it into some
Speaker 1: beautiful Jericho. You decided, Hey, my journey is gonna be
Speaker 1: wigs cooler. You decided to say, I'm going to Barbara
Speaker 1: school cooler. I've known you with for short hair the
Speaker 1: ENTI our time, and in my mind, she just wants
Speaker 1: to rock your hair like she's just I was forced
Speaker 1: to be cool that part, and that's what I was
Speaker 1: gonna say. What made you tap into for both of
Speaker 1: you and find that piece of confidence when I think
Speaker 1: society said you don't have it or you should be
Speaker 1: this way. It was forced to be cool or trend
Speaker 1: setter before I really was ready to be a trendsettor.
Speaker 1: So the alopecia happened when I was fifteen. That natural
Speaker 1: hair journey wasn't popping in nineteen six. Hot top fade
Speaker 1: on a girl. That hot top fade on the girl
Speaker 1: with designs in the back was not common ever, so I, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the girl with the fade, or that's the girl
Speaker 1: with the designs. Oh, she cool, she confident, hence the
Speaker 1: name cooler. I've always been told I'm just cool, don't cool. Look,
Speaker 1: let me just make sure I heard one thing right.
Speaker 1: You have become cool love because you are cool? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because she was cool up than you, Yeah, cool, older
Speaker 1: than me. My real name is Andrea. Okay, come on here,
Speaker 1: cool Yeah, So everybody like, yo, you're so cool, you're
Speaker 1: so confident, you're so cool cool. It came about how
Speaker 1: at fifteen. Let's tap into that. Fifteen is such an age, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want to know very quickly. If you can share,
Speaker 1: how in fifteen did you find the confidence? How did
Speaker 1: you get to be in that space where you were
Speaker 1: self affirming and so self aware. Okay, so at fifteen
Speaker 1: and had the little salt and pepper asymmetrical cut Jered
Speaker 1: Carroll jan The spot went from dime to like half
Speaker 1: dollar size. And it's weird because you don't see the
Speaker 1: hair thing out or go away. It's just disintegrates. You
Speaker 1: wake up one morning and there is a smooth bald spot.
Speaker 1: It's not fuzzy, it's no stubble. It's like acid. Just
Speaker 1: ate that spot and it's smooth. It is the baby's.
Speaker 1: But so that's one and my mom thought I had
Speaker 1: an anxiety thing going on picking that spot, not it.
Speaker 1: So the doctor found out I was a nemic. Basically,
Speaker 1: my body is saying yeah, yeah, I don't really need
Speaker 1: to go up there. We need to go to the
Speaker 1: eye in your body. So we're not gonna take it there.
Speaker 1: So here's my barber from my brother saying, oh, I
Speaker 1: could hook you up. At fifteen, dark skinned little girl
Speaker 1: in Chester, Virginia. I had to cut all her hair
Speaker 1: off and rock a wig until I had about four
Speaker 1: inch growth. And then that's what my barber hooked me
Speaker 1: up and made the designs out of the spots and
Speaker 1: I was rocking the most precise hot top fade ever.
Speaker 1: And because my barber took his time and made it
Speaker 1: so clean, I had to own it. I cried like
Speaker 1: a teenager would, trying to figure out the confidence. So
Speaker 1: I just ate the natural. And then when hip hop
Speaker 1: started to come out, big Daddy came, Kid didn't play.
Speaker 1: I had something to be line to. That made me
Speaker 1: feel a little bit more confident. And then I started
Speaker 1: my hip hop journey because I looked like those rappers,
Speaker 1: so alan not I think about it in hindsight, was
Speaker 1: a dope saving grace for me and helped me build
Speaker 1: confidence as a teenager. It made me go that route
Speaker 1: a barber school, and it also helped me fit in
Speaker 1: physically with my hip hop journey. So I don't know
Speaker 1: where I would actually be without alopecia. To be honest,
Speaker 1: it's part of your story. It is literally part of
Speaker 1: my story. Yeah, and it's a cooler story. I like
Speaker 1: it that was a quarter Jericho shoot out because I
Speaker 1: ain't like I need to talk of it a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's the ways for me exactly. I know your alopecia
Speaker 1: areata started when you were about fifteen, what was it
Speaker 1: like navigating high school? It was definitely like Okay, so
Speaker 1: I played basketball, rain track, I did long chop, triple
Speaker 1: shot put, discus, and it was you know, being underneath
Speaker 1: the post and you go for rebounding, somebody catches your
Speaker 1: hand until that being pulled old off. So you gotta
Speaker 1: shift the wig and it takes all your focus off
Speaker 1: the game, off the plane. All of a sudden, you're
Speaker 1: just insecure. You're focused on oh, snap, is the bobby
Speaker 1: pinning right? And so now you're not even focused on
Speaker 1: your plage. Then shot putting you have to like go
Speaker 1: in the circle and throw it. Sometimes that wig wanted
Speaker 1: to go to Okay, wait a minute, don't jump triple
Speaker 1: jump down in that dirt cooler. You were doing all
Speaker 1: of these super physical activities with a wig on. I thought,
Speaker 1: you're just running the full hundreds. No, because I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I can't run, I'm flat footed. But that's when I
Speaker 1: told my mom, I said, I can't do the wig.
Speaker 1: I'm scared. I'd rather deal with the ridiculee or not
Speaker 1: even ridiculee, the roasting of me being natural and having
Speaker 1: a face. I'm quick on my feet with a roast
Speaker 1: what are you getting roasted? Oh my god, come on, Tracy,
Speaker 1: and I don't know. Kids are cruel. Yeah, kids are
Speaker 1: kids in school? No more. You can't pay me go
Speaker 1: back sixteen seventeen. Now I'm trying to be cool, cool
Speaker 1: like sophomore doing you're in high school. It was more
Speaker 1: so of it just embracing what I can't control. That's
Speaker 1: what it was. It was embracing what I can't control.
Speaker 1: It was embarrassing. It was times when I would cry
Speaker 1: and it was no support. Groups won't even a word
Speaker 1: for it. You just literally felt like I was the
Speaker 1: only person that had alopecia until I became an adult,
Speaker 1: and then when I went to barber school I found
Speaker 1: out this was a real skin condition. In middle school,
Speaker 1: high school, I thought I was the only person that
Speaker 1: had this and I just had to own it. But
Speaker 1: playing sports, I couldn't do it. And Jericho, kudos to
Speaker 1: you for being ready on Johnny on the spot. So, honey,
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. I did track as well, so
Speaker 1: I did shot. I did disc it. So as you
Speaker 1: were saying that, I just remember all the moments of
Speaker 1: that shift. It's like that air, you feel, that wind,
Speaker 1: you just hold up. Not now too much breeze, because
Speaker 1: you're building that centrifical force up. Yes, that dis the
Speaker 1: discs go that way and the we're gonna go that okay, listen.
Speaker 1: Gives me so much joy is to hear that you
Speaker 1: can recount this and you can laugh about and find
Speaker 1: something retrospectively that is humorous, because I'm sure at the
Speaker 1: time it was stressful and there were like high anxiety
Speaker 1: moments for you. Let's jump into the next part. Jada
Speaker 1: said in this episode that her reason for dedicating an
Speaker 1: episode of Red Table Talk to the alopecia community is
Speaker 1: that so many people who have it are suffering in
Speaker 1: silence and with the definition breakdown of alopecia just being
Speaker 1: hair loss and then cooler what you've shared with how
Speaker 1: these barbers are really saving lives out here with the
Speaker 1: camouflage of things, the people definitely are suffering more than
Speaker 1: we realized, and it is something that people deal with
Speaker 1: just in silence, while even the outside community doesn't have
Speaker 1: a lot of understanding about it. I'm hoping platforms like
Speaker 1: this bring that awareness to light. What has your experience
Speaker 1: been or have you experienced this feeling of isolation on
Speaker 1: your alopecia journey. I think cooler you tapped into it
Speaker 1: a little bit, feel free to tap in again. But
Speaker 1: Jericho as well, have you experienced that isolation? My suffering
Speaker 1: in silence is just how to fix it. I'm a
Speaker 1: fixed person, fix the situation. So what am I gonna
Speaker 1: do when you're younger? Maybe a little broke? He's just like,
Speaker 1: all right, you wear a ponytail, all right, half up,
Speaker 1: half down. I'm a fixed person. I think because of
Speaker 1: how I process things. It was okay, I can't do that,
Speaker 1: now what? And so that's basically it. I didn't stay
Speaker 1: and it too long. Of course you cry. Of course
Speaker 1: you want to wear braids again. I had people talk about, oh,
Speaker 1: you have horse hair. You know, I had the clap bag.
Speaker 1: It was fine. I'm the one for it, like I
Speaker 1: was the one who was ready for it. I will
Speaker 1: cry at home, and it is in silence because like
Speaker 1: it happens, and you may not actually know what's going on.
Speaker 1: You gotta go to school, you gotta go to work,
Speaker 1: you gotta go see people. You have to live with this.
Speaker 1: So it's really just that moment of okay, this is
Speaker 1: what it is. How do I fix it? And then
Speaker 1: you move on right, Well, it's the solutions for me.
Speaker 1: I can relate to that as well. I love the
Speaker 1: solutions too, and love that you took your braids down
Speaker 1: and you were like, you know what, here's my solution.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wrap my head. And that's what I'm saying again,
Speaker 1: like women, we can tap into that African heritage and
Speaker 1: have head wraps and rocket with out there even being
Speaker 1: an issue. Just look natural and beautiful because that's who
Speaker 1: we are. Here's the thing that that the two points
Speaker 1: that I loved that each of you made for you.
Speaker 1: Cooler you're like I'm a rocket, and Jericho you're like,
Speaker 1: I got it and I'm gonna find a solution for it.
Speaker 1: It's like you took it and you had to cry
Speaker 1: about it, but then you said, Okay, now I'm white
Speaker 1: my tears and move on. And in the face of
Speaker 1: this alopecia, I'm still gonna be my best self. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate that, and I want to celebrate that for
Speaker 1: both of you. You app cooler. One of our guests
Speaker 1: on this Red Table Talk episode was Gina Knight, who
Speaker 1: developed alopecia after years of feeling connected to her Nigerian
Speaker 1: heritage only through her hair. Her story was so powerful.
Speaker 1: I was raised in private Forstica with a white family.
Speaker 1: Eleven months old and go to us my mother's soul.
Speaker 1: She could not do my hair. I always felt that
Speaker 1: my hair was problematic, and up until the age of eight,
Speaker 1: she used to shave off my hair, cut it really short.
Speaker 1: At the age of eight, I said, please, don't cut
Speaker 1: my hair again, please, And I started to learn how
Speaker 1: to do my own hair, and it just became such
Speaker 1: an important part of how I would connect with my
Speaker 1: Nigerian heritage. What does your hair mean to you? Considering
Speaker 1: you lost it for a long time and then got
Speaker 1: it back. I'm okay with different hairstyles because I'm gonna
Speaker 1: lose I'm gonna come back right in a different form,
Speaker 1: in different shape and a different rebranding. I guess you
Speaker 1: could say, come on, butterfly, Oh my gosh, that's so powerful.
Speaker 1: I can rack the locks or the low season with
Speaker 1: their part and I color it with an outline, and
Speaker 1: nobody could do that but me mean design, since got
Speaker 1: the best designs enrichment, A promise the waves. I was
Speaker 1: killing him with the waves last summer. Yeah, I'm saying,
Speaker 1: said I had him like kind of bunga dude. And
Speaker 1: my hair is my crown. I don't really need a
Speaker 1: metal one. I guess the alopecia has made me very
Speaker 1: aware of my hair and very proud of the foreseed,
Speaker 1: just being like it's mine and I'm gonna do whatever
Speaker 1: I want to and I'm a rocket any kind of ways.
Speaker 1: It was genuinely from a suffering kind of place and
Speaker 1: it's sprouted into something really beautiful. So my hair is everything.
Speaker 1: And I got the little gray in the back suit girl.
Speaker 1: A man had great hair but it fell out. It's
Speaker 1: my mama got the scumpe wig. This episode also got
Speaker 1: me thinking about the obstacles we come up against this
Speaker 1: Black women living in a predominantly white society as far
Speaker 1: as our hair is concerned, right, whether we keep it
Speaker 1: natural like cool little or rocket protective hairstyle like I do,
Speaker 1: people outside the black community often perceive us a certain way.
Speaker 1: I'm thankful for the protections we have now against hair
Speaker 1: discrimination thanks to the Crown Act and other laws that
Speaker 1: were passing twelve states now, so we got a little
Speaker 1: bit of ways to go. But years ago in my
Speaker 1: corporate job that that was not true. Jericho identify with
Speaker 1: you because I have had my hair in every wig
Speaker 1: style known a man and cooler, I'm with you. I
Speaker 1: have rocked a fade, I have had a low top,
Speaker 1: I have had color, I've done all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm like completely connected with both of you. But
Speaker 1: in my corporate environment job, when I broke out of
Speaker 1: the wig and had my natural hair, you will not believe.
Speaker 1: Oh it makes me mad just thinking about it now.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, because I couldn't say anything Corporate America,
Speaker 1: you got a total line. But I literally had a
Speaker 1: wig on one day and then the next day I
Speaker 1: was like, Ye're gonna go ahead and rock my own hair.
Speaker 1: I want you to know that. One of the officers
Speaker 1: in the company literally he said to me. I was
Speaker 1: like it when you get your other hair back, child,
Speaker 1: it would be the comments for me, not the other hair.
Speaker 1: When I say that for me, Like what? First of all,
Speaker 1: I was like the audacity number one, because at what
Speaker 1: point do you think it's appropriate for you, under any
Speaker 1: circumstances to speak to me about what I'm wearing on
Speaker 1: my head. And then because you're in a position of authority,
Speaker 1: you can say it and no one I can't say
Speaker 1: anything in response because at the time I wanted to
Speaker 1: say was something that would have got something bleeps right now?
Speaker 1: And so how have you navigated in jobs? When it
Speaker 1: comes to how you were your crown? I always have
Speaker 1: the first week, the first new job wigs, you know,
Speaker 1: black bob bob, something that's really nice and cute, but
Speaker 1: babe bad When I tell you I have worn electric
Speaker 1: blue hair like red hair like it definitely switches really quick.
Speaker 1: I try to keep it, but it's my personality. I
Speaker 1: used to match my clothes two weeks with my hairstyle.
Speaker 1: So if it was electric blue, that's just what it is.
Speaker 1: Like the nails some people ain't know who was coming
Speaker 1: to get cold? Who was that? But now go back
Speaker 1: to what you said though week one week was what
Speaker 1: it was natural color. It was straight and it was
Speaker 1: probably like a short bomb your bone straight and it
Speaker 1: was just like something very simple and natural. One one
Speaker 1: be yes, one bee and straight out of dream Girl
Speaker 1: wavy in there. You know what Wedden Wavey could have
Speaker 1: been too sassy week say she don't listen. It's the
Speaker 1: speotypes for me, the probation. But let that probation bery
Speaker 1: it pass ninety days. Baby, it's red men. Okay, So
Speaker 1: here's the thing. No one had to say to you, Jericho,
Speaker 1: you have to assimilate. No, at any point did anyone
Speaker 1: ever say you need to make sure you're hair is
Speaker 1: aligned with the European accepted style or did you just
Speaker 1: know I took that on. You know, when you get
Speaker 1: a job and I have read and that it says
Speaker 1: that it's about the hair, says need to be well groomed.
Speaker 1: It even tells you that it has to be a
Speaker 1: natural color that someone could grow on their own. To me,
Speaker 1: I didn't like that yet, that wasn't fair. But to me,
Speaker 1: you took album by color. Sometimes you read between the
Speaker 1: lines because at that point they can only put certain things.
Speaker 1: So that told me, okay, Jericho, come in, get a
Speaker 1: temperature check, coming with your straight, natural color brown hair,
Speaker 1: and just sat down and see how this goes. Because
Speaker 1: I definitely feel that energy. Yes, listen, it's not just
Speaker 1: that though. These are literally things like you said, you
Speaker 1: took that on literally things women carry with them all
Speaker 1: day long, like from hair and my job because my
Speaker 1: boss gonna look at me like this. Things we just carry.
Speaker 1: There's so many unspoken things I worked in the restaurant business.
Speaker 1: Did you ever have any issues with that? Cool up?
Speaker 1: Sometimes certain tables would be like about their hair. So
Speaker 1: here's the thing, and the restaurant business they called back
Speaker 1: in the day old school tips, they would call black
Speaker 1: tables Canadians because you never know if you had a
Speaker 1: table of Canadians, right, could you spot the Canadian out? Okay,
Speaker 1: so the term was in the restaurant low key, damn
Speaker 1: you know, sat me with the table for the Canadians.
Speaker 1: But I knew how they work on Canadians. They didn't
Speaker 1: care about my hair. They were also intrigued of how
Speaker 1: you get in a way with this with your hair.
Speaker 1: So I would take all the black tables and get
Speaker 1: the compliments. I would get the good tips. I know
Speaker 1: how to take care of mine. So you're telling me
Speaker 1: that Canadians was really Cannigros pretty much. Stop. So if
Speaker 1: there was an employee with blue hair shaved in the
Speaker 1: back that happened to be of a caucus ancestry, you
Speaker 1: can't really come for me with my natural hair growing
Speaker 1: out of my natural scout, with my natural color when
Speaker 1: she over there has blue hair, So like, you can't
Speaker 1: really write me up because to me, that's an hr
Speaker 1: issue I got. She definitely tread softly on that. They
Speaker 1: got to tread softly when it comes to me, when
Speaker 1: it comes to anything about that, it's a fine line
Speaker 1: to where it's harassment or you just you're discriminating and
Speaker 1: things like that. Just the people need to learn to
Speaker 1: leave people alone. Facts, mind your business, Mind your business.
Speaker 1: You truly don't know what people are going through. Like
Speaker 1: how you mad at how my hair grows out of
Speaker 1: my follicles. Literally literally, that's the real things. I worked
Speaker 1: in DC, the entire Obama administration, and when I first
Speaker 1: got the job, it was the air of you're gonna
Speaker 1: go to d C with those locks. I had just
Speaker 1: started my locks and people just could not believe it.
Speaker 1: So I've always too cools point of I've always been
Speaker 1: somewhat of an outsider. But at the same time, it's
Speaker 1: just my hair. I'm just starting locks. But two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, I want to say, is one of the
Speaker 1: cusps of let's let our hair down, let's allow this
Speaker 1: to happen. I mean, who knew that in twent two
Speaker 1: weeks still be arguing about our hair at work and
Speaker 1: actually having it suddenly be allowed. I mean you think
Speaker 1: about twelve states, that's we have ways to go. Just recently,
Speaker 1: like within the last couple of weeks, I had one
Speaker 1: of my mentees call me because she had an interview,
Speaker 1: and she's like, Tracy, I have an interview Friday, but
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to get my hair braided on Wednesday. Should
Speaker 1: I wait and reschedule my appointment getting braids until after
Speaker 1: I had my interview? Or do you think it'll be okay?
Speaker 1: I was like, the fact that we even had to
Speaker 1: have that conversation in it was heartbreaking, but I was
Speaker 1: also grateful that she was aware to your point, Jericho,
Speaker 1: that you had the ninety day probationary hairstyle, that you
Speaker 1: know that so many things can be held against you.
Speaker 1: I would love for us to see that crown On
Speaker 1: Act moved throughout the entire United States because we have
Speaker 1: so many other bigger fish to fry, right, And also
Speaker 1: shout out to the news anchors who I see more
Speaker 1: and more wearing it, you know what I mean, just
Speaker 1: regular braids and natural styles. I'm like, come on news, that,
Speaker 1: come on weather, whatever they're doing on that. I'm just
Speaker 1: so excited. Again, that's my representation matters. Dr Mina in
Speaker 1: this episode also explained that injections into the scalp help
Speaker 1: some people with alopecia to regrow their hair, but they
Speaker 1: are painful. The first line treatment are steroid injections. They
Speaker 1: directly target the information around the hair bowl, so they're
Speaker 1: suppressing the immune system. And often we do around eighty
Speaker 1: pokes or eighty injections just into the scalp, and you
Speaker 1: have to get the month. But I did running over
Speaker 1: right cooler. Yes you did try this treatment, So how
Speaker 1: was it for you as a kid. I was just like, man,
Speaker 1: I hate it going to get injections in my scalp.
Speaker 1: It was painful. Then when the hair grew back, it
Speaker 1: was a whole different straight hair. It was baby hair.
Speaker 1: I had to get too blood transfusions because I was
Speaker 1: chronically anemic, and then my hair go back and I
Speaker 1: never had alopecia again. So my alopecia was due to
Speaker 1: being severely anemic. Wow, you see why people need to
Speaker 1: mind their business because I think things are lumped into
Speaker 1: one assumption of what things are. And I think the
Speaker 1: Lord your body was talking to you and telling you
Speaker 1: what to fix is I had to write people around
Speaker 1: to help you fix that, and it was like advantageous
Speaker 1: and economic for me to go natural because the barber
Speaker 1: was cheaper than a hair salon. For my mom for sure,
Speaker 1: because having hair is expensive. Yes, thank god I wasn't
Speaker 1: born in the Arab bundles. My mom would be broke.
Speaker 1: So now, Jericho, we know that you started with the
Speaker 1: creams and shampoos and all the alopecia treatments before discovering
Speaker 1: your love for wearing and creating wigs. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: about this. If you could tell us, first of all,
Speaker 1: how all you found wigs that worked for you and
Speaker 1: we're comfortable because some of them are too smile and
Speaker 1: too tight, because I want to know in case I
Speaker 1: decided to wear a wig again. So at first you
Speaker 1: got this trial there, a lot of money and just
Speaker 1: trying to find them. I had hair at one point,
Speaker 1: so I was like, so it would be like the
Speaker 1: same haircit was layered and that's just what I always have.
Speaker 1: It didn't fit, and I always thought I had a
Speaker 1: big head always. When I went and I took Madame
Speaker 1: LaBelle got wigs, there's different sizes. Fifteen years later, I
Speaker 1: didn't know that, but then it makes sense. So I'm
Speaker 1: thinking that it was big. It's a one point five.
Speaker 1: I got a small head. So then I figured out, okay,
Speaker 1: it's a fit custom made wigs. Getting the wig head
Speaker 1: four mine, the twenty one point five fits perfect. That's
Speaker 1: the part of it. You get it, But then you
Speaker 1: need a tailor made custom wig this for you. And
Speaker 1: what she changed, but that lump behind the ear. If
Speaker 1: y'all ever had a wig old, they can't get that
Speaker 1: ear right to say. They're like, oh my goodness. When
Speaker 1: she put it on me, it felt like someone crowning.
Speaker 1: She went and made it tailored to my head, and
Speaker 1: it felt like it was just mine. If this is
Speaker 1: gonna be your thing every day, you need to get
Speaker 1: it custom made for you. Those other ones factory made.
Speaker 1: They're mostly masses mass productions, and that's why they have
Speaker 1: the adjustable bands don't fit right. You constantly adjusting it
Speaker 1: is the wind gonna blow. Because let me tell you,
Speaker 1: a storm came when I went down to the ocean front.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you it was a tumbleweed. Honey, I'm
Speaker 1: over here taking my wig on the beach. Yes, I
Speaker 1: had to take the sand down everything I've been there, hilarious.
Speaker 1: It's a transparency for me not. I wanted to prevent
Speaker 1: it the best way that I could, and if it
Speaker 1: did happen, I am always prepared in my mind. At
Speaker 1: any given moment, I am prepared jumping in the pool, honey,
Speaker 1: that thing was just a floating away. Plus y'all heart,
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about all of these things I
Speaker 1: was dealing with to add on a hair journe, babe,
Speaker 1: and not one that you're choosing. I did a lot
Speaker 1: of brains. Of course, I did sports the things. Again
Speaker 1: that my non alopecia privilege. I just realized it's always
Speaker 1: two sides of this coin, Like I just have a
Speaker 1: hair privilege that I just didn't even acknowledge in my mind.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get my hair braider. So I appreciate you'
Speaker 1: all sharing because this is gonna change list. And so
Speaker 1: in having the custom made wigs, what has it been
Speaker 1: like now finding the passion because of your alopecia condition?
Speaker 1: And then I'm really super excited to hear about the
Speaker 1: increased level of self confidence? Oh definitely. So I wanted
Speaker 1: to do it for a long time, but where do
Speaker 1: you start again? When I got my first wig done,
Speaker 1: it was important to me to understand, to really get
Speaker 1: the background on it, because how can I help people
Speaker 1: if I don't know? So I went and I invested
Speaker 1: in taking Shelley's class. So I took the class, and
Speaker 1: I even took a ventilation class, so I learned how
Speaker 1: to do it hair my hair, because it meant to
Speaker 1: me that there's people who may want to mimic their hair.
Speaker 1: They had a cow, a leg, a world somewhere. So
Speaker 1: when I come out, I want to make sure that
Speaker 1: I cater to all of the people who have alopecia.
Speaker 1: I have my eyebrows, some people don't, so you may
Speaker 1: have to ventilate that. Look at old pictures to be
Speaker 1: able to say, okay, what did you look like? What
Speaker 1: would this look like? Now okay, you had a worldly
Speaker 1: in the front. So I needed to learn how to
Speaker 1: make a worldly. I may not have their alopecia, but
Speaker 1: I feel like that I need the solution for it.
Speaker 1: I t person. So how can we take technology to
Speaker 1: be able to love the people who make it. I'm
Speaker 1: taking baby steps, but it is work that I know
Speaker 1: when it does come out, it's going to be a
Speaker 1: change for the people in this journey. So now we
Speaker 1: need more tools to be like, Okay, what can we
Speaker 1: use out there to make it easier for us because
Speaker 1: it's time consuming. It could take months to be able
Speaker 1: to create just one unit. People need help and there's options, right,
Speaker 1: That's so true. That's one of the reasons why I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful for this episode y'all to change their lines
Speaker 1: out here. Absolutely, even me, just in the episode, I'm like,
Speaker 1: note to self because I do not know that. And Jericho,
Speaker 1: you took something that you went from being in a
Speaker 1: position where you had to protect yourself to being passionate
Speaker 1: about it and then empowering other people to take their
Speaker 1: own passion and then be protected and feel confident in themselves.
Speaker 1: So that is a wonderful testament to know that it's okay.
Speaker 1: Some people just don't know. I feel that I'm powerful,
Speaker 1: I feel that I am confident, Like I was missing
Speaker 1: something until I had spoke to Shelley and she gave
Speaker 1: me that piece the missing. Now you can need to
Speaker 1: say yes and run with it and just let people
Speaker 1: know that it's okay. Yes, I wear wigs and that's okay.
Speaker 1: People put such a stigma on having wigs. Why wouldn't
Speaker 1: that be okay? I blame. Back in the eighties, the
Speaker 1: Hairclub for men, he put a shame on, even put
Speaker 1: a lyric in the song about it. He he was
Speaker 1: the president, and I just think he started the shame
Speaker 1: and we don't like that. For cooler you being in
Speaker 1: the barbering realm, and then with Jericho creating wigs and
Speaker 1: having different styles. It's such a wide, like full spectrum
Speaker 1: of opportunities for hair now and because we have so
Speaker 1: much more exposure and access to information as opposed to
Speaker 1: how it was then. Like right now, if I got
Speaker 1: alopecia arianta, right now, I know that there's a very
Speaker 1: eclectic barber somewhere that would cut my hair low, and
Speaker 1: then I would take my eyeliner and color and my
Speaker 1: alopecia spotes and make it colorful, because it's okay to
Speaker 1: do that now. I feel like a pioneer, to be honest, Yes,
Speaker 1: feel like a pioneer. I was doing that in the eighties. Sun,
Speaker 1: get out of here and come on here a pioneer.
Speaker 1: We love it. If you both could sum it up
Speaker 1: in one sentence, what is one thing that you would
Speaker 1: want everyone to know about alopecia? Okay, So, as far
Speaker 1: as for me, alopecia is not a female thing, Okay,
Speaker 1: men go through this struggle as well, So I would
Speaker 1: like to challenge the women to be a little kinder
Speaker 1: to men in the community when it comes to them
Speaker 1: dealing with their alopecia, because the same way we went
Speaker 1: through our insecurities and our vanity with ours, they go
Speaker 1: through the same thing with their What about you, Jericho,
Speaker 1: I'm going to say that alopecia is a journey and
Speaker 1: it really doesn't have a final destination, and just to
Speaker 1: know there's always options. There's gonna be forks in the road.
Speaker 1: You try something, you don't like it, you can try
Speaker 1: something else. There's always going to be a solution that's
Speaker 1: gonna fit you and make you comfortable. It's always gonna
Speaker 1: be a solution that fits you. Right there. That's it.
Speaker 1: That's it. I love that. We want to thank you both,
Speaker 1: Jericho and Coola so much for being here with us.
Speaker 1: Your sharing and has just inspired and empowered so many people,
Speaker 1: men and women cooler to know that they can be
Speaker 1: on their journey and that they can have a solution
Speaker 1: and find what works for them and makes them comfortable too.
Speaker 1: So thank you both so much. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you. We really appreciate the invite and the opportunity
Speaker 1: to let everybody know our journeys. Thank you for what
Speaker 1: wonderful guests we have. I love our guests. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a short break right now, and when we return,
Speaker 1: we'll share our top five takeaways from this episode. I
Speaker 1: learned a lot during this episode and from our guests,
Speaker 1: and now it's time to start our thoughts, presenting Cara
Speaker 1: and Tracy's top five thoughts Tracy Dog, this is the
Speaker 1: partner show where we speed through the five thoughts slash
Speaker 1: takeaways from the episode. Okay, so I'm super excited Car
Speaker 1: because you go ahead and start with number five. Number five.
Speaker 1: It's one thing to choose to be ball, it's another
Speaker 1: to lose all your hair without warning. That is key.
Speaker 1: Coola shared her journey on that and it was the
Speaker 1: innovation for me since said I'm gonna get some signs
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna keep it moving and Jericho, but both
Speaker 1: after they cried. So I love that they had a moment,
Speaker 1: they grieved what they wanted to have their hair, and
Speaker 1: they run along big time, not before losing your hair
Speaker 1: can feel like losing a part of yourself. Okay, Now,
Speaker 1: how many times have you heard or seen someone get
Speaker 1: a big chop. They're intentional, they recorded, they said, in
Speaker 1: the chair and they are freaking the blankety blank out
Speaker 1: And it's an intentional haircut. But when you go in
Speaker 1: and you wake up and your hair is gone, no
Speaker 1: control at all, that is a loss that you're not
Speaker 1: prepared for. That's scary. Number three, there are three types
Speaker 1: of alopecia, and traction alopecia occurs, and one in three
Speaker 1: adult Black women due to tight hairstyles. So take care
Speaker 1: of your hair and protect those edges because we all
Speaker 1: know about that. Yeah, and y'all look mama's and dad
Speaker 1: is out there doing the little baby's hair. Stop pulling
Speaker 1: the baby's hair so tight they need just a little
Speaker 1: breathing room. Okay. Number two, even if a condition is
Speaker 1: not life threatening, we should still consider the mental toll
Speaker 1: it takes on a person and practice empathy. This is
Speaker 1: so true and number one last, but definitely not least.
Speaker 1: No matter how you wear your crown, you are royalty, period.
Speaker 1: I love it. That's such a fact. Just love on
Speaker 1: your hair and love on yourself. Where yah, that is
Speaker 1: the key. If you are looking for support relating to alopecia.
Speaker 1: Please visit in a A F dot org. We want
Speaker 1: to know how you're feeling about this new season of
Speaker 1: Red Table Talk, so we are open to talk about
Speaker 1: anything with you all as well. Send in your questions
Speaker 1: and even your comments to Let's Red Table That's at
Speaker 1: red table talk dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe on I Heard Radio app and
Speaker 1: please rate this podcast on Apple podcast. We want a Pile.
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week for another episode of Let's
Speaker 1: Red Table. That a big thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Janda Pinkett Smith, Ellen Rackitton and Fallon Jethro. And
Speaker 1: thank you to our producer Kyla Knru and our associate
Speaker 1: producer Yolanda Chow. And finally, thank you to our sound
Speaker 1: engineers Calvin Bayliss and Devin Donnahy. We love you. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Let's Red Table, That, Let's Red Table, That tape table,
Speaker 1: Let's red tabble both that, Oh, Let's Red Tape both that,
Speaker 1: Let's Red Table. That