WEBVTT - The ‘ABC’ Test for COVID-19 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the worlds of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.840 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. If you 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.280 can download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud or Bloomberg 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.480 dot com. If you can also listen to our radio 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.400 show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, and be 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.320 sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:30.440 Global News. A lot of virus headlines certainly coming today. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.960 Among them, chief uh is certainly the COVID night teen vaccine, 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.320 developed by University of Oxford and Astra Zeneca, preventing a 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.800 majority people from getting the disease, but falling short of 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.400 the bar set by Fiser and Maderna. This is all 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.640 happening as global cases past fifty eight point seven million 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:49.040 deaths topping one point thirty nine million. Working though to 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.479 help in managing covid is, writ Egan, chairman, CEO and 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.520 co founder of Utah based Co Diagnostics. They make diagnostic tests, 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.000 including one that detects influenza A and B as well 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.760 is Kevin Nighteen, also another coronavirus TESK Dwight joining us 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.360 on the phone from Salt Lake City, Utah. Dwight, nice 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:08.959 to have you here with us, UM. I gotta ask 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.280 you quickly though. First let's start with Utah. I have 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.720 a niece there, she's a doctor. It's been pretty tough, 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.160 it is, and Utah happens to be one of those 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.319 states which is experiencing a very large increase in current 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.360 COVID cases. So when you look at what's happening and 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.520 you see again this second third wave that we're seeing globally, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.520 UM and the role that you guys can play, talk 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.920 to us a little bit about your diagnostic tests and 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:40.040 how that is going, Uh, Carol. First of all, I 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.560 would say that the problem that we think some of 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:47.840 the states are having is a lack of protocols that 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.800 are in place to deal with businesses and to deal 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.440 with schools. For example. It's not enough to just tell 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.000 people to be preventative, in other words, to wash your 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.760 hands a lot, wear a mask, and so sleep distance. 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.280 You actually have to have a protocol. I think you're 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:07.560 seeing more success in places where they actually have a 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.480 testing protocol. You don't have to test everybody all the time. 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.559 You have to test enough of a scientific random probability 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.399 sampling that you can spot where it's showing up. For instance, 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:20.520 in our in our own business here at CO Diagnostics, 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.880 we test our lab three times a week and every 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.799 other employee at least every other week, and that makes 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.359 it so we have a COVID safe workspace and we 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.040 are employees know their COVID status from day to day. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.560 And I think that's one of the places where the 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.960 States have fallen down is not being able to have 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.080 those types of protocols firmly established so that a business 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.360 knows what they're supposed to do to be safe and 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.880 a school knows what they're supposed to do to be safe. Now, 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:50.840 with respect to our testing, we have developed a COVID 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.360 test that was our original test offering, which we still 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.280 sell a lot of. We also have done a COVID 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.800 two test which we sell internationally in places that are 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.280 more were influenced by the World Health Organization and their 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.200 recommendations that learned some multiple genes, and then our most 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.520 recent iteration is an ABC test as we stylize it, 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.760 which tests for flu a flu B and COVID nineteen. 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.000 And the reason we did that is that we're entering 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.560 now at cold and flu season with potentially a hundred 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.520 million cases flu like symptoms. You're just in the United States, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.480 and of course, in the course of a year, the 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.720 United States has about a billion colds, and all of these, 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:34.800 the covid, the flu, and the colds present with similar symptoms, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.000 especially in the early going of the disease. So this 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.040 this test is meant to make it so you can 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.200 tell a patient you do or do not have COVID nineteen, 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.880 you do or do not have flu A or D, 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:48.720 or you may have both of them and so on. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.520 So it's we're doing that kind of a test in 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.240 order to make it so we can have more differentiation 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.680 between the different types of diseases that present present with 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:02.120 similar symptoms. Hey, remind us, you know, Dwight, in terms 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.320 of how many people are accessing I haven't given me 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:06.600 an idea if you have, you know, in terms of 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.520 distribution of your test, you know, if that's wrapped up 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.560 in terms of demand, and remind us of what the 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.120 cost is and kind of the timeline and and the 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:18.360 accuracy of your testing. Yeah, so you know, we were 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.240 the first US based company to have a ce MARK 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.160 test for COVID. As a result, a lot of our 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:29.359 distribution is overseas. We service over fifty countries throughout the 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:34.760 world with COVID testing. We also have a plant in India, 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.240 which is the second largest hot spot in the world, 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:42.320 where we actually manufacture in India. We service well over 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:46.000 half of these states in the United States, and our 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.680 model is a clear lab model. Care we don't we're 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.000 not a clear lab, but we don't actually perform the 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.280 tests at any of our facilities. We actually make the 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.559 tests and sell them to clear labs around the world 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.719 and around the United States, who then do their own testing, 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.080 So we don't really even have control over the final 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:08.960 pricing those Clear labs asked for. Our tests historically have 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.200 been compassionately priced since the get go, and that means, 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.080 you know, we're selling tests for you know, six seven 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:20.080 eight dollars to our customers who they then put into 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:24.680 their uh their order flown and their workflow, and you know, 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.560 they have to do the collecting of the sample and 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.479 the doing the PCR test and everything associated with it. 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.920 But you know, our whole history as a company deals 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:38.080 with tests that are like tuberculosis and malaria. We see 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.960 and we do that all around the world. And what 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:42.840 I'm curious to white to it. As you said that 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.320 what's lacking right now is some of the protocols in 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.279 states to kind of have a testing plan in place 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.280 that can give people some confidence in terms of safety 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.640 and who's got the virus, who doesn't have it, how 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.360 frequent is it. Just got about forty five seconds left here. 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.120 What kind of demand have you seen, UM for your tests. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:02.840 I'm just trying to get an idea if it's been 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.080 ramping up in the last couple of months. We have 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.599 very strong demand for our test, Carol, we have since 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:14.359 we started selling them. Uh, we have a very robust 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.920 business in our original COVID test. We're now taking orders 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.159 all over the world with our ABC tests. And so 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.839 we think even with vaccination around the corner, and we 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.440 don't resist that, of course, as long as you've got 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.400 cold and the flu, you're going to have to figure 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:37.160 out whether people have COVID or not. Even if they're vaccinated, right, 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:38.599 You're going to still need to do this. To have 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.160 an idea of exactly what we're all dealing with, UM. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.600 Dwight we're running out of time. I appreciate it. I 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.240 hope we can get you back here real soon to 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:47.920 talk a little bit more about what you guys are doing. 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:52.000 Dwight Egan he chief executive officer and co founder of 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.720 Utah based Co Diagnostics. They do make diagnostic tests and 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.360 as you just heard, with flu A and B as 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.520 well as COVID nineteen uh and certainly in the thick 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.600 of all of this, this is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.120 Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. So this story was the 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.040 top the most read on the Bloomberg when it recently hit. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.000 It was about Prince Andrew acting as an unofficial door 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.120 opener for a particular individual and his private bank and 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.760 bottom line added all up, it's not been a good 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.080 year for the Prince. So for more, let's bring in 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.720 Harry Wilson, reporting for Bloomberg Business Week. He's financial reporter 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.400 at Bloomberg News on the phone in London along with 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.200 Jail Webber, Bloomberg Business Week Editor. He is on the 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.240 access line in Brooklyn. Maybe it's because I've just been 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.480 binging on the Crown again, Joel, but I am kind 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.720 of all in on this story. I know the Crown 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.400 is basically the only reason we did this story. Now 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.320 I'm joking, um uh, you know you mentioned a rough 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.560 year for Prince Andrew. It's actually longer than a year 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.520 because of how his name has been sort of dragged around. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.040 But you know, we didn't we didn't go dragging in 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.720 in that same mud. But what we we did learn 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.880 and and Harry's reporting is part of this, is that 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.800 he's been a little bit of an unofficial door opener 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.440 for a certain private bank that has dealt with some 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.040 sketty customers. Um, so here, what's the bank and what 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.840 was Prince Andrew's relationship with him? Hello? Yes, so, um, 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:21.360 Prince Andrew was exectually an unofficial door door opener for 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.720 a bank in Luxembourg called Bank Hatland. Now most people 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.440 won't have heard of this bank because as a as 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.560 a tiny bank. So Prince Andrew was very close to 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.960 the owners of this bank, David Rowland and his son 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.880 Jonathan Rowland or one of us was Jonathan Rowland, and 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:42.120 he basically started introducing well he was out there acting 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.319 as a door opener. His neighbor was being used by 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:50.959 them to attract clients and generally I guess for acting 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.160 as a it's kind of hard to say, well, he 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.960 didn't have any official role there, but he was basically 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:02.280 being used to to attract people to the business. Well, 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.520 and what's interesting is, okay, I mean, these kinds of 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.480 things happen, But when you start to dig a little 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.240 bit deeper, and you guys got access to a bunch 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.840 of filings, regulatory filings that was reviewed by you and 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:16.760 your team and a lot of you did a lot 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.920 of interviews with former bank insiders. Tell us a little 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.320 bit about the information that started to come across as 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.800 you went through it and the picture that started to 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.839 develop when it in terms of how it involved Prince Andrew. Well, 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.559 so Prince and Story has been friends with the Rolands 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:39.040 since at least these mid aughts, and and what you 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.680 kind of see is a picture developing there of this 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.800 relationship whereby the Rolands would be out trying to pitch 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.680 for their business. So it started off with their own 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.719 family office, Blackfish Capital, and then in two thousands and 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:57.240 nine they buy this bank from the ruins of Iceland's Calcting, 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.679 which they don't go on to Bank caval And what 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.920 what you see is some gradually over this time, Prince 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.600 Andrew is used to you know, when when they want 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.840 to get introductions to someone or something like that, his 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.240 name will be being voked. And these really, you know, 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.720 there's some pretty extraordinary names out there. So, for instance, 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:22.160 on a trip to North Korea, Prince Andrew's name was 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.600 used as that they were when the when the Romans 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.440 were there, that they were introduced as friends of Prince Andrew. 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.319 So it really is quite a Quinn extraordinary Carter characters. 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.800 When we started looking into it, Okay, I gotta ask 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.079 a question there. You said, North Korea, who are these 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.160 people and what were they doing business with? Well, so, 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.240 so one thing I should make clear is, um, they 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.520 never actually ended up doing business. So, but just the 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.600 very fact that you would entertain the idea of potentially 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.120 doing some kind of business with the leadership of North Korea, 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:59.640 it's pretty crazy. Um, so this this was a business opportunity. 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.320 I guess who might describe it that they went out 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.360 to pursue their potentially to offer banking services to the 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.079 family of the North Korean leadership. As they say, nothing, 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.160 nothing actually happened with it. But just the very facty 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.040 going out there, it's it's it's it's pretty out there. 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.920 And tis let's look about more of that Kasak characters 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:19.880 that you know. The North Korea one is obviously a 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:24.640 recognizable one, but there's some other Kase characters that big have. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.960 One's also counadas as customers area, and some of those 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.360 customers have recent eyebrows. Can you work us through some 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:37.439 of those other cast of characters, Yeah, sure so so Actually, um, 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:39.959 you know it's for instance, to take to take New York, 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:43.360 the largest, one of the largest foreclosures in New York 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:48.640 was actually a bank Havalian customer. This was Cutaway Luco, 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.440 who was a It was a Nigerian old tycoon who 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:57.120 was They lent twenty five million to twenty five million 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.320 euros to buy this this or so after you brought 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.319 this part the ex plunging with a mortgage. But the 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.360 you know, the this sent he was then linked to 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.360 or he was linked at the time to a massive 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.000 bribery scandal back in Nigeria. And you know that that's 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.400 you know, that's one customer. I guess. You also have 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:21.199 the family of the ruling family of azerbai Chan. You know, 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.680 this is one of the most corrupt countries on earth, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.160 and they were thanking the daughters of the of the 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:33.360 President of azabay Jan. Well, and it's interesting to you know, 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.360 I wonder what the princess saying, what the palace is saying, 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.160 because you say, the emails don't connect Andrew to any 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.240 of these clients, and you don't know whether the Rollins 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.760 mentioned him to kind of get it out there. Just 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:50.160 to be fair, Yes, yes, so the palace, as as 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.920 the story shows that the palace really is instant, isn't 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.400 saying anything on this one. I think, you know, obviously 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:57.440 they've got quite a few things going on there at 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.439 the moment, so you know, it's probably quite busy. But 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:05.040 you know that basically the it's a sort of a 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.319 straight no comment from the Palace on this stuff. And 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.120 uh yeah, well we're waiting to see what comes out 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.760 and other things. So so here I do want to ask, 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:16.839 because there's a there's a reference that you guys making 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.760 the story about investigators and regulators looking at bank have 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.760 we in and what do we know on that front 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.720 in terms of of what you know, outside interest might 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.320 might be in sort of the banks in its dealings, 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.800 So we have, um, you know, as we reported, there 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:38.319 is a Luxemburg prostitutors are looking at Bank Kavalant. So 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:43.600 this follows a referral from Luxembourg's financial regulators, who'd already 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.360 find the bank four million euros, which you know, it 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.319 doesn't sound like an awful loss, I guess to a 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.839 lot of people who might be more used to banks 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.880 getting multi billion dollar fines, But in Luxemburg this is 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.240 probably one of the largest signs ever ever levied there 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.720 and so this this anyway, so the prosecutors there are 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.280 now looking at the bank. They're looking probably you know 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.599 a lot of the things that we prison about. We 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.640 know that they're looking at the relationship with the as 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.400 of by John Ruling family. Um. I think obviously the 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.400 investigation who has been somewhat kind of waylaid by the 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:24.040 COVID pandemic, but it's still there, and I guess, you know, 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.640 as as things start to clear up, you know, the 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.560 process should get going again, and you know, who knows 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.640 where that could lead. Well, it's a great read, Harry, 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.800 and as you could get off you and Gavin Finch 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.040 in your story, it isn't much fun these days being 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.840 Prince Andrew. There's so many great details and it sounds 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.160 like there's still more to be known. But what a 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.680 great deep dive into this. So thank you so much 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.000 for bringing it to us. Our thanks to uh Harry 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.600 Wilson reporting for Bloomberg Business Week, Finance reporter U Bloomberg 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.520 News joining us on the phone in London, of course, 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.600 our thanks to Joe Weber are Bloomberg b is this 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:59.480 week editor from Brooklyn. Vince is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.400 Carol Master on Bloomberg Radio. It's indeed you are listening 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.360 to Bloomberg Business Week on this Monday, just crossing the bloomberg. 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.600 According to Dow Jones, Janet Yellen is President elect Joe 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.960 Biden's pick for Treasury secretary. So again some speculation last week, 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.680 but again crossing the bloomberg. According to Dow Jones Wall 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.520 Street Journal, Janet Yellen, former Fed chair, is President elect 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.120 Joe Biden's pick for Treasury secretary. So we continue to 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.200 see more and more headlines and news about what a 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:30.480 Biden cabinet and senior advisory team would look like. Alright, 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.560 so we're watching that. I'm also watching a story that 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.000 also came from Dow Jones the Wall Street Journal. It 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.280 was about senior Trump administration officials saying that they are 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.680 pushing for new hardline measures against Beijing, even as President 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.360 Trump winds down his final two months in office. Anything 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.920 China always a top story in my view. Let's get 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.320 a smart perspective from Bloomberg New Economy editorial director Andy Brown, 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.160 joining us on the phone in New York City. Andy, Um, 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.480 nice to have you here with us on this Monday. 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.720 So this story from the Walls Street Journal. Uh, you know, 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.200 it looks like the Trump team maybe looking to be 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.000 even harder, if you will, when it comes to Beijing. 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.400 What's your thoughts on that and what might be going 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.520 on inside the White House right now? Yeah? So I 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.400 think the sense in the White House and the China 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.960 team is that, you know, we've got two months left 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.960 to put in place a series of tough measures against Beijing, 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.480 which the Biden administration will find very difficult to roll back, 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.000 even assuming that they wanted to do that. And I 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.320 think that that is quite an assumption. And so um, 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.200 the reports that the US is going to come up 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.080 with a list of dozens of Chinese companies affiliated with 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.280 the Chinese military and ban US companies from doing business 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.680 with them. So that would include, for instance, Komac, which 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.760 is coming up trying to build a mid sized airline 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.760 that would affect companies like Honeywell and ge which of 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:58.520 joint bench agreements to help build that aircraft. And then 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.000 in the latest report, the one that you mentioned the 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.640 Wall Threet Journal, Dal Jones this idea that the U 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.400 s should put together an informal coalition of like minded 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:12.600 democracies to push back against Chinese coercion. And we've seen 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.600 that most dramatically just in the past few months, with 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:27.560 China sanctioning or choking off exports of Australian wine, of grains, lobsters, 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:32.920 seafood um in response to a whole laundry list of 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.280 complaints or as a result of a laundry list of 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:42.000 complaints that China has against Australian behavior, basically behavior that's 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.320 critical of China and its human rights, critical of China 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.280 over Hong Kong and Shin Jong and so right. And 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.800 we know President elect Joe Biden has been very careful 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.360 about not really commenting right now in US China policy, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.920 certainly when he's been asked about it. Um, But do 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.919 you find it odd potentially that there's all of us 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.639 done kind of a ramping up um by the U. 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.879 S and this administration in terms of new policies. And 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.200 I do wonder Andy, what you think that Chinese officials 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.640 are they saying, all right, this is just the current administration. 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.119 It's unlike any other and we're going to really just 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:19.600 wait to see what happens come January. Yeah. Look, I 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.159 I mean we we of course had as you know, 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:23.960 you were you were hosting this and you're going to 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.479 be forum last week. And I think what was very 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.520 clear I'm talking to the Chinese delegates is that is 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.879 that nobody has any expectation that a Biden administration is 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.200 going to dismantle wholesale all of the menasures that the 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:41.639 Trump administration has has built against China. And it may 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.239 actually well be that the Biden administration may welcome all 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.119 this UM. It will give them some room for negotiation 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.800 with China after they come in UM. And as they 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.040 it's not at all clear that that in the area 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.760 of trade, commerce investment, the Biden administration will will take 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.720 us off the line. UM. Then then then the Trump 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.720 administration and actually in some areas you could see a hardening. 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.480 I mean, there's been reports that Michelle floor, and I 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.680 could be the new Defense secretary. She is actually quite 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.520 hawkish on China and a big defender of Taiwan. Well, 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.200 that's what I wanted to ask you. I mean, you've 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.320 got to be watching, you know, as these names continued 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.960 across the Bloomberg in other news outlet, other news outlets, 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:26.960 about what you know a Biden administration would look like, 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.760 whether it's Secretary of State, whether it's National Security Advisor, 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.760 you know, the people that that he is considering or 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.760 will be potentially in those positions. What it What it 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.800 tells you And like you said about the Defense secretary, 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:40.800 what it tells you about you know, what kind of 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.679 policies might be coming out of the new administration when 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.240 it comes to China. Yeah. So, so even though is 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.640 you know, Biden hasn't been quite careful not to say 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.760 anything about China, I think his cabinet picks tell us 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.200 quite a lot about where a Biden administration will go. So, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.239 as I said, you know, with Michelle Flournoy, I think 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.879 we could expect a much more hawkish military posture by 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.840 the Pentagon um. She critiques the Trump administration for not 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.879 standing up to China strongly enough and not coming up 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.480 to alternatives to China's vision for global order as expressed 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.840 by the Belt and Road initiative. On the other hand, um, 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.840 I think what was interesting is this is appointing John 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.840 Kerry as climates are. Just a few weeks ago, he 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.479 published a long piece in The New York Times calling 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:35.159 for a really ambitious engagement with China to protect the Antarctic. 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:39.359 He talked about creating three gigantic marine parks to protect 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:44.040 biodiversity and allow and allow wild you know, wildlife to 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.680 get used to to climate and acidifying oceans. And that 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.080 again last week we talked about that, yes, the US 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.240 are going to have rivalry, Yes they are going to 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.640 be competitives, that they also have to find discreet areas 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.600 where they can collaborate so that their ride read doesn't 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.560 been out of control and into potentially hostility in war. 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:06.960 Right climate change, especially if you think about things like 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.239 that right knows no borders. It's not like you can 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.720 just draw a line at this way, do you anticipate 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:14.760 And just got about forty seconds here, Andy that we 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.920 kind of have good cop, bad cop, you know, good parent, parent, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.119 kind of uh, you know, relationship with China potentially within 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:25.120 this administration. I think it's going to be Yes, that's 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.760 one way of putting it. Another would be a mixture 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:33.399 of competition and collaboration, and um Biden has has talked 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:34.959 about that in the past, and I think it's going 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.879 to be a much more balanced sort of relationship. All Right, 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:40.880 Gonna leave it on that note, Andy, Thank you so much. 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:45.080 I always appreciate it. Bloomberg News Bloomberg New Economy editorial 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.719 director Andy Brown joining us on the phone in New 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.479 York City. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:55.480 from Bloomberg Radio. President like Joe Biden planning to nominate 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:59.200 former Federal Reserve your Janet Yell into service his Treasury secretary. 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.560 It's a move that would put the first woman in 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.639 a seasoned central banker into the nation's top economic policy job. Again, 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.040 this is said to be true according to those familiar 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.760 with the matter. Let's bring in our Bloomberg Intelligence senior 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.920 US economist Jelena Lativa. She joins us on the phone 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:18.960