WEBVTT - Israel-Hamas Conflict & Labour's Great Expectations 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:03.200 Good morning. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.480 It's Monday, the ninth of October in London. This is 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:18.920 the Bloomberg Daybreak Europe podcast. I'm Stephen Carroll. Israel strikes 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.400 back at Gaza after Hamas attacks kill more than seven 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.720 hundred people. Hamas faces international condemnation as tensions in the 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.320 Middle East flare, plus fears of a proxy war, oil 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.720 surges as the risk of a wider conflict puts markets 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.720 on edge. Let's start with the roundup of our top stories. 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.239 More than seven hundred Israelis, most of them civilians, have 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.400 been killed by Hamas in the weekend's attacks on southern Israel. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.600 About four hundred Palestinians have also died in fighting and 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.440 retaliatory attacks. As the Israeli military has regained control over 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.680 most areas breached by militants. The operation by Hamas, which 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:59.080 included taking scores of Israeli hostages, was an unprecedented incursion 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.880 that has shaken real stability and markets there on. Ohayan 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.040 Shakti's relatives were among those taken. 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.720 I don't know how this can be resolved in a 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:13.160 way that will secure their lives and bring them back 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.400 to Israel alive in one piece. 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:17.160 I don't know how this can be done. 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:19.840 O'hayan Shakti says she doesn't know how she will be 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.039 reunited with her family. It's unclear how many hostages have 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.480 been taken, and Hamas says it was holding dozens of 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:29.320 commanders and soldiers. Reacting to the attacks, Israeli Prime Minister 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:31.959 Benjamin Nettania, who said the country is now at war 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:32.680 with Hamas. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.440 Hamas started a cruel and evil war. We will win 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.640 this war, but the price is too heavy to bear. 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.319 This is a very difficult day for all of us. 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.679 The timing and scale of the attack appears to have 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.560 caught Netanyahu's government by surprise. The country's officials have been 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:53.240 warning for months that Palestinian militant groups were preparing for violence, 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.960 but the attack still appears to represent one of the 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:00.680 biggest failures by Israeli intelligence in decades. Within hours of 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:05.080 Saturday's attacks, these ready defense forces launched Operation Swords of Iron, 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.440 cutting off power and carrying out airstrikes against targets in Gaza. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.840 The Palestinian Health Ministry says hundreds of people, including children, 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.200 have been killed there. Reacting to the events, read Mansur, 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.720 the Palestinian observer at the United nations said this. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:26.080 We chose the peaceful path to achieve our rights, but 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:33.600 Israel continued using bland force against Palestinian lives and Palestinian rights. 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:38.080 Israel cannot wage a full scale war on a nation, 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:44.320 its people, its land, its holy sites and expect peace 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.240 in exchange. 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.560 Despite read Mansur's comments, Israel says it won't stop until 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.480 Hamas's military infrastructure is dismantled. That's a task that seems 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.520 likely to take months and will likely include a ground invasion. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.600 President Joe Biden has towed Prime Minister Netanyahu that additional 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.920 military assistance for Israel is now on the way, with 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.280 six US naval vessels now headed to the Eastern Mediterranean 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.600 to quote bolster regional deterrence. Meanwhile, the British Prime Minister 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.280 Richi Sunak says the UK stands unequivocally with Israel following 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.160 the attacks. Now is not a time for equivocation and 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.320 I'm unequivocal. Har Mass and the people who support her 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:28.200 Mass are fully responsible for this appalling act of terror. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.799 Ritchie Sunac's comments come as Saturday strike in Israel's subsequent 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.640 declaration of war threatened to unnerved markets. Oil has surged 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.520 by as much as five percent after the attacks, and 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.720 while the events don't pose an immediate threat to crude supplies, 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.200 there is a risk the conflict could spiral into a 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:51.040 more devastating proxy war involving the US and Iran. Turning 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.400 now to other news, the Labour leader kir Starmer says 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.680 the party must keep its composure over the prospect of power. 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.680 At the start of possibly the last conference before general 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.800 elect the Labour leader spoke at the party's women's conference. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:07.200 A simple message that we take to the country that 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.360 labor will make a practical difference to the lives of 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:12.360 millions of women in this country. 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.120 Starmer's Labor Party is expected to use the conference to 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.400 outline plans for the NHS and for growing the economy. 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.520 Bloomberg understands that the party is considering plans to borrow 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.800 to invest in British industry and Metro Bank has secured 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.400 a nine hundred and twenty five million pound financing package 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.040 deal which includes a forty percent haircut on some bondholders. 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.240 The agreement, Cy's Columbian financier Jimmy Glinski take a controlling 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.599 interest in the British retail and commercial bank Metro gains 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.599 some much needed breathing space after a tumultuous week that 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.560 saw its share price whipsaw. Of course, the story that 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.919 is dominating our programming today are the events of the 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.479 weekend in Israel. More than one thy one hundred people 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.240 are dead in Israel and Gaza after the weekend's Hamas 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.680 attacks and the retalitory airst strikes on the Palestinian territory. 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.440 It's the worst attack on Israel in fifty years, with 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:08.960 potentially wide reaching consequences. For the latest were joined Byer 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.160 Israel BUA chief Ethan Bronner and Tel Aviv and a 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.320 studio with me in London as our EMA andis reactor 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.680 Razin Mathison. Good morning to you both, Ethan, and I'd 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.000 like to start with you. What is the latest that 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.520 you can tell us this morning about what Israeli forces 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.880 have been able to do in terms of regaining control 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.599 of areas where fighting was ongoing over the weekend. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.400 Yes, I can seven. So the situation remains relatively dire 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:35.240 in Israel. The Israeli say that Hamas fighters are continuing 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.080 to sneak in in small numbers to Israel and remain 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:42.440 at large in Israel. In the south, mostly but possibly beyond. 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.920 There are still families being held hostage by Hamas fighters 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.000 in the south of Israel. 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:48.800 There are at. 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.560 Least one hundred Israeli hostages being held in Gaza, so 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.440 from an Israeli perspective, the situation is not yet under control. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.040 Forty eight hours after the assault. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.400 They are of course striking by air in Gaza and 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.400 say that they are going after a bunch of launching 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:11.240 sites and military infrastructure held by Hamas. But they were 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.960 clearly caught in terrible surprise, and this is taking a 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.719 lot longer and a lot more painful than they ever expected. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.839 What have we heard from Prime Minister Benjamin Saint Natania 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.880 who and the government about what they expect to do 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:26.640 from here? 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.520 The Prime Minister has actually not held especially high presence lately. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.719 I'm sure it's a very difficult time for him. I 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.919 would say that the military officials and those who have 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.279 been in and out of government are talking about a 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:46.359 month's long campaign which will involve a ground force. 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:47.240 Very likely. 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.279 No one is asserting it as a fact, but it's 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.960 increasingly viewed as likely, and that this is going to 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:55.880 take a long time, but that they say they are 0:06:55.880 --> 0:07:00.359 determined to never allow Hamas to have the capacity to 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:01.640 carry out such an attack. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:03.839 Again, Ethan stay with us. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.440 I'd like to turn to Razin mathscenari Emians reactor, who's 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.840 in studio with us. There was a meeting also of 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.400 the UN Security Council last night. 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:10.840 Ros. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.120 What do we know about what happened there? 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.160 Well, there wasn't meeting. It was a closed door meeting 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.760 and obviously an effort by some members, including the US, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:22.320 to get a unified statement condemning Hamas for this attack 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.360 on Israel. We didn't see that statement eventually in a 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.160 way that's no surprise, of course, when you look at 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.080 the makeup of the UN Security Council, you've got Russia 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:34.320 and China there. Russia has supported around obviously in the 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:38.280 Middle East, which it turned backs Hamas, and China tends 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:39.800 to walk a line on this. You can see in 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.760 the statements they've issued so far since his attack, not 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.440 overtly criticizing Hamas by name, not overtly calling out the 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.240 Palestinians for this, just urging a ceasefire, and no great 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.720 desire to be part of a statement that's condemning Hamas. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.280 Of course, A bit broader questions over the utility of 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:01.080 the UN Security Council in recent years, including its response 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.800 to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So you're not really going 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.120 to see strong leadership necessarily coming from the UN in 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.360 this moment. The real thing to watch, obviously is the 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.600 key ally of Israel, which is the US. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.720 So far, the US has sent six vessels, including an 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.520 aircraft carrier to the Eastern Mediterranean. How should we assess 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.160 the US response so far to these events. 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.040 Well, certainly a high level of concern about what's going on, 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.800 strong statements of support for Israel, saying they'll support Israel 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:33.040 and in a number of ways, including potentially militarily, talk 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:37.040 of more aid packages coming in. And the US has 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.000 had a roll over the years in sort of the 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:43.120 development and the production of the Iron Dome missile system, 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:47.199 which has proved quite effective. Yet again in the recent events, 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.800 the question is what does the presence of the US 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.319 Navy close by do. It just sends a signal for 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:54.920 a start, the US is in the air in the 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.599 idea that people need to probably keep a lid on 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.400 contagion effect from what's happened. Again, the concern that this 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.439 sprawls out into other areas of the Middle East. So 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.679 that's an important thing. Just again, the US could be 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.720 needing to potentially West Caast now evacuate its own citizens 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:12.360 from the area. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:18.520 Ethan to you, and a word on the military response 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.400 we've had from Israel so far. Can you describe to 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:26.560 us what has happened in terms of military operations since Saturday? 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:29.760 Sure, And one last thing I would I would, I 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.679 think with Ross said, is very important and just to 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.240 point out that the presence of that US system here 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.720 is really aimed at Isbelah at Lebanon, as she implied. 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.520 It is not aimed at Hamas in the South. 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:44.920 It has aimed at the fear that there could be 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.079 a kind of a multi front war and to send 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.599 a signal in terms of what Israel has done. It 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:54.440 had something like twenty nine spots along the border fence 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.640 that were breached on Saturday morning. They have repaired them 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:02.280 and say largely secured them. Have mostly they've arrested and 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.120 killed a whole bunch of Hamas fighters in the South, 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:10.360 and they have now been hitting from the air hundreds 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:15.400 of targets, especially launcher sites, to reduce the number of 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.640 rockets and missiles that Hamas can send to Israel, but 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.160 they are finding it much more difficult than expected. They 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.439 have called up four divisions, there's a whole bunch of 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.400 reservists going down. There are already complaints of a slight 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.040 lack of equipment. It's fairly chaotic, it. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.640 Must be said. This is not a well ordered situation. 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:34.960 From Israel's perspective. 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.000 There's been much discussion about the intelligence failures that led 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:43.360 to this attack happening as a surprise on Israel. What 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:45.600 is being said about that there Now. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:51.240 This is seen as perhaps the worst intelligence failure, certainly 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.920 since the nineteen seventy three war. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.600 And again it's a sort of double nature. 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.720 One is an operational one, they didn't have enough troops 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:05.000 down along the fence, but it was largely a conceptual one. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.079 And here I think this will take a long time 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:08.120 to understand. Well. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.600 For the last few years, and especially six or ten months, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.880 Hamas has given the distinct impression to Israel that it 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.840 was not in a fighting mode, that it was looking 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:22.000 to negotiate and talk its way to a future. Meanwhile, 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:27.320 it seems planning all along a massive invasion. They fooled 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:31.160 the Israelis, and the Israelis feel utterly humiliated about it. 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:32.560 Ros. 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.880 What do the events of the past few days mean 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.240 for the efforts to normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:41.800 Israel and other Gulf countries. 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.440 Well, as Ethan was saying, I mean, Israel is going 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.920 to be very focused for quite some time, possibly months, 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:54.599 simply on its efforts to contain Hamas militarily now. And 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.319 that's really going to be front of mine. With the 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.600 level of casualties that we've seen, has to be number one. 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.920 So does that just take normalization off the table? At 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.040 the very least, it puts it very much on the 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.280 back burner. There's going to be no appetite to have 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.719 those conversations continuing. They're very, very delicate conversations to be 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.640 happening at all, let alone in the environment that we're 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.199 in at the moment, and certainly that may have been 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.560 some of the intent from Hamas in carrying out this attack, 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.400 was to derail that process. Certainly, it's got to be 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:27.880 very much on the back burner for now. 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.319 Whereas the Wall Street journals also reporting this morning that 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.880 Iran helped Hamas to plan these attacks, what's been the 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:35.520 official response to those reports. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.200 Well, obviously it's a pretty natural line to draw, given 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.880 the historical support that Iran has given to Hamas and 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.599 obviously also by Hesballah, which Ethan was talking about a 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.040 minute ago. Are you seeing US caution officially on that. 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.640 They're saying, there's no there's nothing that they see that 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.959 tangibly ties Iran to this, But of course you see 0:12:55.040 --> 0:13:01.000 a long history of support militarily, strategically, financially Hamas. And 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.360 whether or not they knew about this attack, they were 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.680 guiding this attack and helping them planet is another question, 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.520 but certainly there's a strong level of historic support there. 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.120 The US is saying officially right now, they don't see 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.160 anything that directly links around to this particular attack. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:17.760 Ethan, What does. 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.600 All of this mean for the political situation in Israel now? 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.320 The President calling for national unity, There's been some talk 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.520 from some of the opposition party leaders as well. 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.680 Yes, I think it's important to just recall for our 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:36.439 listeners that what happened on Saturday morning was a fairly 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:41.160 brutal civilian massacre. Hundreds and hundreds of people were slaughtered. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.720 This was not really a military incursion. These were kids 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.280 that a concert, These were people in their homes. This 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:53.280 has unified this country in an instant, and the protest 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.880 movement for example, that was protesting against Prime minister in 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.679 Titania who in the streets for nine months, has now 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.319 turned into a support system for the troops and the 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.160 people in the south, raising money for them. As you said, 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:12.600 opposition has talked about joining a national unity government. The president, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.360 as you said, mentioned, and I think that there's a 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.839 likelihood of that happening. This is I don't think that 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.800 long term prime minister in d'artagna who can survive this 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.960 failure of intelligence. But for now people are gathering around 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.520 and really in a rather unified way, which has eluded 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.440 this country for this past year or two. 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:35.920 Rather I final word to you about wire else we 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.800 should be watching in the region for the wider implications 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.320 of the events we've seen in Israel. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.800 Well, obviously, again the concern is that this does spread 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.880 and perhaps if there's a long running ground war in 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.320 the area, that does draw in other plays, including around 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.800 although so far it's been fairly contained. You saw some 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.960 rockets fired by Hesbealah, you saw some rockets fired at Hesbelah, 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.000 but that's really been sort of a gesture if anything else, 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.080 and there doesn't seem to be an appetite really to 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.720 see this spread beyond where it is now in the 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.440 terrible events itself within Israel, but certainly that bears watching, 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.160 and not just for security in the region, but for beyond, 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.440 because of course this is an oil producing region. If 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.040 all supply gets affected, that's very significant for the global 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.440 economy as well, especially given the past year and a 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.640 half of Russia's invasion again of Ukraine. So those are 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.320 sort of broader threads worth watching, but for now obviously 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.080 a strong desire to not see this spread. 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.720 Our Amia News director Roslind Matheson and from Tel Aviv, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.280 Israel Bureau Chief Ethan Broner, thank you both very much. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.560 Now we are continuing to monitor events in Israel, but 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.200 turning to some political news here in the UK. The 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.000 Labor Party holding its annual conference in Liverpool, freshenal success 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.800 of the by election victory in Scotland, but the events 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.280 of the weekend threatening to overshadow the party conference. Cayline 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.520 Hepgur is live in Liverpool for us this morning. Good 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.960 morning to you, Caroline. What has been said first of 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.160 all on this made her international story at the Labor Party. 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.720 Conference, so the Labor leader Kirs Starmer has made a 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.920 complete break from three years ago if you recalled Jeremy 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.880 Kudabin presiding over a Labor party accused of deep anti 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.800 Semitism that saw protests in Parliament Square and prominent Jewish 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.080 MPs resigning. Labour has released a statement and also spoken 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.520 about this with the Shadow Health Secretary Shadow farn Sexualary 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.200 talking about this, Labour stands firmly in support of Israel's 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:31.960 right to defend itself and talking about the indiscriminate attacks 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.480 from Hamas. I mean, Corbyn has been expelled from the party, 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.360 but he still would not condemn her mass over the weekend. 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.520 In particular, he talked only about any and all the 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.560 tax in general. So I think it was also very 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:48.080 significant that Luciana Berger, one of those MPs who resigned, 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.920 returned to conference last night saying that Kirs Starmer has 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:55.000 shown the leadership and done everything necessary to turn our 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:59.160 party around. So this is significant. The Board of Deputies 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.640 of British Jews and other Jewish leadership groups in the 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.399 UK have thanked both the Prime Minister but also kiss 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.040 Starmer for their support. So I think that on this 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.640 issue Kis Starmer is trying to clearly put a significant 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.760 divide between the former leadership of the party and the 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.680 way that he wants to steer the Labor Party in 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.480 the UK. Because, as you say, this is potentially the 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.560 last party conference ahead of the next general election in 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.320 the UK, Labor is twenty points ahead in the polls. 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.080 The mood here, I must say in Liverpool already, frankly 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.480 is excited, nervous, yes, scared to put a foot wrong. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:41.200 But the party you know, has potentially real shot at power. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.520 They've been out of power since twenty ten. Can Kiss Starmer, 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.639 the former prosecutor turn politician, win the next general election 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.280 in the UK? You mentioned that he won that by election. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.440 His party won the by election in Scotland. So I 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.320 put a few of these questions to Steve Rotherham Lays 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.600 Liverpool metro Mayre about what Starmer has to do at conference, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.280 what he needs to do to convince voters and businesses 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:09.479 and others to vote for him. 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:11.760 I think what you're going to see over in the 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.440 next few days is a government in waiting, and you 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:20.040 know the shambles of the Tory Party conference in Manchester 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.800 will be in star contrast to policy decisions and really 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.920 innovative ideas about what we need to do to take 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.000 our country forward, and that's really what I'm looking forward 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.080 to over the next few days. 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.320 Does Labour need to deliver a lot more policy detail now? 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.760 I mean that has been also a concern that actually 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.840 Kirs Starmer has said very little and there's a big 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.960 question mark about whether there'll be more detailed policy at conference, 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.320 or whether that will come in the manifesto, whether it 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.560 won't come at all, that Labor is sort of relying 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.480 on the Tories to lose rather than proposing policy. Does 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:56.720 Labor need to deliver more policy now. 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.840 Well, you're not going to see the manifest so launched 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.840 in Liverpool at party conference because we don't know when 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.600 a general election is going to be called and if 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.920 the Tories, if mister Schuenach wants to call that general election, 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.280 then I'm absolutely certain that you'll see all of the 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.200 detail of policy come to tuition at this moment in time. 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.440 Of course, we don't know when that will be, but 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:22.560 we think it will be within the next twelve months 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.639 or so, and so we're gearing up for that and 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:30.600 you know, we have an army of volunteers ready to 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.800 take that message out onto the doorstep and to fight 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.160 in every constituency so that we get a majority Labor 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.680 government and then we'll really see the difference that the 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.560 Labor Party can make to this country rather than this 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:46.160 failed toy alternative. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.600 We've got the highest taxation levels that we've seen since 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.920 the Second World War. It's hard to tax the UK 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.040 more in order to create a fairer society if that 0:19:58.240 --> 0:19:58.760 is the route. 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.880 Yeah, and Rachel Reeves has said, you know that we're 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.280 going to be fiscally prudent and that's the right thing 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.280 to do. We will find ways, of course of ensuring 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:14.320 that it's not just the quantum of funding that is 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:19.000 available and hopefully that does grow, but also the distribution 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.760 is fairly and that's what happened so far in this country. 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:28.159 That's embedded the inequalities that the distribution formula based on 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.040 the Green Book methodology from the Treasury has meant that 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:37.080 the Tories could give you know, their shire counties more money. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.280 You know, missus Schunach is famous for actually standing up 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.320 and making a speech saying that that he's wrestled funding 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.359 from the areas that needed most and give it to 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.320 Tory areas well. We need to reverse that and we 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:51.840 need to ensure that those places that have been left 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:57.920 behind for generations are now the priority for an income 0:20:57.960 --> 0:20:58.719 and labor government. 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.600 Does in Liverpool think that labor is the party of business? 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.680 Well, you can ask them, but certainly the businesses that 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.960 I speak to overwhelmingly a support of what I've done 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.680 in the Liverpool City of Egypt. And if what I've 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.040 done is a microcosm of what can happen on a 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.920 national scale, then yes, businesses are massively supportive. 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:21.680 I tell you what they're not supportive of. 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.520 They're not supportive of the Tory government that cancels HS two, 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:31.320 that causes absolute confusion and chaos, that has the country 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.520 and the shambles that has a former prime minister and 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.520 list trust that has cost every single. 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.119 Household thousands of pounds. They're not supportive of that. 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:42.719 But they are supportive of the things that I've been 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.120 able to do with limited powers. But just imagine having 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.639 a labor metro mayor labor councils and then a labor 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:51.000 government working in tandem. 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.120 That's the real prize that we're talking about. 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:55.600 The Prime Minister is she sud that clearly thinks that 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:59.080 he is the selling point perhaps rather than his Conservative 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:03.199 party that's seems to be the impetus. Does that target 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.720 a labor weakness? I that it is the Labor Party 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.480 that seems to be more popular than kiss Starman, that 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:12.119 Starmer lacks personal appeal. Are you worried about that? 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:17.880 Well, Richie Schunach is their benefit. 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.680 If he's their their poster boy for Toryism, then I 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:23.159 think we're going to do all right, aren't we? 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:25.639 Because we saw what he was like. 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:30.359