WEBVTT -  Tenderheaded: Hair, History, and Healing with Michaela Angela Davis - Lab115

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<v Speaker 1>I'm t T and I'm Zakiyah and this is Dope Labs.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore

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<v Speaker 1>science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship.

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<v Speaker 1>We've been seeing some of our favorite you know, media stars,

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<v Speaker 1>are some of our favorite black girl media stars getting

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<v Speaker 1>kind of bullied on the internet. Yes, I mean from

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<v Speaker 1>Ayisha Curry talking about how she is struggling with being

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<v Speaker 1>thrust into this whole world of being Stephen Curry's wife,

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<v Speaker 1>very very young and being a mother and not really

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<v Speaker 1>being able to find herself. Serena Williams with her foray

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<v Speaker 1>into the golp Ones, Kiki Palmer, people have really been

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<v Speaker 1>ganging up on her. It just feels like the list

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<v Speaker 1>goes on and on, and black women and media are

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<v Speaker 1>never given the race that a lot of their white

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<v Speaker 1>counterparts get. And I think that that is something that

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<v Speaker 1>is systemic. We see it across a lot of cultures

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<v Speaker 1>where the darker your skin is, the harder people are

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<v Speaker 1>on you, and it just makes living in your day

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<v Speaker 1>to day more precarious because you are hyper aware of

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<v Speaker 1>how you're existing in every space. The darker your skin is. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, One of the things we've talked

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<v Speaker 1>about is the democratization of media. It used to be

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<v Speaker 1>television and just a few channels, but with opening up

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<v Speaker 1>access to share messages and the ability to respond to

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<v Speaker 1>the people sharing messages, we didn't start fresh. We came

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<v Speaker 1>with the same drama we've had all these years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>your mama's drama, your grandmama's drama, your great grandmother Listen,

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<v Speaker 1>it's still here mm hm exactly. And so I think

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<v Speaker 1>when we think about this, I think we kind of

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<v Speaker 1>want to know what is the path, what has the

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<v Speaker 1>path look like, and where should we be looking for

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<v Speaker 1>it to go. I think that was a great what

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<v Speaker 1>do we know and what do we want to know?

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<v Speaker 1>I think we can jump straight into the resitation. Our

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<v Speaker 1>guest today is icon Mikayla Angela Davis. She has a

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<v Speaker 1>long career in fashion and journalism. If you feel like

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<v Speaker 1>you don't know who this is, google her you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Who she is.

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<v Speaker 1>She's an image activist who describes her work as examining

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<v Speaker 1>how identity, race, gender, beauty, and style intersect with black

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<v Speaker 1>culture and mainstream media. She co wrote the bestseller The

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<v Speaker 1>Meaning of Mari Carrie and co created the documentary series

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<v Speaker 1>The Hairtails, which puts a spotlight on black hair and

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<v Speaker 1>identity in contemporary culture. Mikayla has won a ton of

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<v Speaker 1>awards and is a living legend. Mikayla, thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for joining us today. Let's jump straight into your book, Tenderheaded.

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<v Speaker 1>Your book starts with the retelling of your first day

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<v Speaker 1>of second grade when a group of older girls surrounded

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<v Speaker 1>you and had a girl to hold a pair of scissors,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they tried to cut your hair. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to give away too much because it is a

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<v Speaker 1>great story, but just no, your brain survived the attempt

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<v Speaker 1>at jumping. Can you talk to us about how that

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<v Speaker 1>has shifted your perspective of what it means to be

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<v Speaker 1>a black woman?

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<v Speaker 2>The Hairtail. It's interesting because I've been using hair as

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<v Speaker 2>a thesis as an organizing principle to talk about black

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<v Speaker 2>women's identity, humanity, and culture. My first day of school

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<v Speaker 2>at all black school, that I couldn't wait. I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>wait to be with all black girls, right I was little,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and having that near death experience around my hair.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that was a pivotal moment because the story

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<v Speaker 2>could have been these black girls are mean they don't

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<v Speaker 2>like me because I'm light skinned and I got long hair,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's it, right, or the choice I made was

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<v Speaker 2>something's going on with us, and they are not gonna

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<v Speaker 2>cut me out of the Black girls society. I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 2>watch my bat hence on the cover, you see how

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<v Speaker 2>my hair is doubled up. I did that after that

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<v Speaker 2>incident because I'm like, they're not gonna cut my hair,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're also not gonna cut me out. And so

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of became a way of being because I

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<v Speaker 2>knew that my hair and my skin was complicated and

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<v Speaker 2>how it confounded and complicated and triggered things in other

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<v Speaker 2>Black girls. And it was one of the reasons why

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to layer in history also in Tender Headed,

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<v Speaker 2>so that we can also understand the context in which

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<v Speaker 2>black women were organized. It was there was strategy around

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<v Speaker 2>us being in conflict with each other, right, there's policy,

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<v Speaker 2>there was propaganda, there were practices and laws around color

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<v Speaker 2>cast system, and so it was really important for me

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of dig into that history.

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<v Speaker 1>For those of you that don't know, colorism is a

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<v Speaker 1>racial distinction within the African American community that further fragments

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<v Speaker 1>blackness based on skin tone, and there's a hierarchy associated

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<v Speaker 1>with your proximity to whiteness. So the more Eurocentric your

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<v Speaker 1>features are, the more privilege you receive. So we want

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<v Speaker 1>to talk to you, MICHAELA, about the history of colorism

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<v Speaker 1>and how it showed up in your life and in

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<v Speaker 1>your work.

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up in DC and I went to high

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<v Speaker 2>school at Duke Gallingy School of the Arts, and so

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<v Speaker 2>that was a very different experience. Had I gone to

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<v Speaker 2>another kind of school, I probably would have experienced the

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<v Speaker 2>color cast system because it gets around teens. But we

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<v Speaker 2>were united around being artists, so I didn't get that.

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<v Speaker 2>It really came to fruition once I started working in

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<v Speaker 2>media and working in fashion, because I'm very clear that

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<v Speaker 2>my proximity to whiteness and my how I presented got

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<v Speaker 2>me to be in certain spaces in a certain way.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm also aware of the legacy of people like

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<v Speaker 2>Angela Davis, other light skinned radical women who we can't

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<v Speaker 2>go in and change the DNA, but when we get

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<v Speaker 2>in a room, we're gonna bring as many black girls

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<v Speaker 2>with like. So I'm from that school. So that was

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<v Speaker 2>part of why I wanted history in this book. For instance,

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<v Speaker 2>The first quote unquote American it girl was an enslaved

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<v Speaker 2>child named Ida who was very, very, very fair. Abolitionists

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<v Speaker 2>took a photo of her with a pretty dress, her

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<v Speaker 2>hair slicked down, her hand, on a stack of books

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<v Speaker 2>and sold this image and basically was saying slavery was

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<v Speaker 2>wrong because look how close to us it can get.

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<v Speaker 2>Not slavery is wrong because it's a violent, brutal crime

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<v Speaker 2>against humanity. But there are some enslaved people that are

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<v Speaker 2>so light, so close to white. So that began the

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<v Speaker 2>propaganda of light skinned closer to the master society, closer

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<v Speaker 2>to the freedom of black people, like this notion that

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<v Speaker 2>we could save the race. But even more diabolical TTY

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<v Speaker 2>is that by the end of the Antebellum era, ten

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<v Speaker 2>percent of all formally enslaved people were at the term

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to use the terms mulatto right, So that

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<v Speaker 2>means there were six hundred thousand empirical pieces of evidence

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<v Speaker 2>of serial rape against black women. So that population was

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<v Speaker 2>at the time more disgraced than the enslaved that were

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<v Speaker 2>not missed because they were proof of rape. There was

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<v Speaker 2>no other explanation for their existence. And these are children

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<v Speaker 2>that came out of black women's bodies, and that's often

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<v Speaker 2>lost in the conversation. Right, these are still children of

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<v Speaker 2>black women, and so what happened was in an attempt

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of reshape the narrative out of being in

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<v Speaker 2>this shame space of product of rape, it ballooned into

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<v Speaker 2>that they were better and privileged. And that ballooning of

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<v Speaker 2>that propaganda at the time. This is media. So it

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<v Speaker 2>started in the antebellum era of selling this notion that

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<v Speaker 2>light skin and particularly girls were favorable. So that's what

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<v Speaker 2>we're having to grapple with. We're grappling with history and

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<v Speaker 2>media and propaganda.

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<v Speaker 1>So with this history of colorism, you saw it continue

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<v Speaker 1>to manifest throughout your work. Mainstream media was prioritizing lighter

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<v Speaker 1>skinned women.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember in the time when I was working music videos,

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<v Speaker 2>you could not cast a brown skinned girl and there

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<v Speaker 2>was no response, no public response to that. So we've

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<v Speaker 2>made progress because at least there's a glad bag and

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<v Speaker 2>there's a record, and there's some education. But what I

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<v Speaker 2>offer this, is it a privilege to be at odds

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<v Speaker 2>with your sister? Is it a privilege to be set apart?

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<v Speaker 1>So how do we make progress and shift the way

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<v Speaker 1>that things are.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm hoping we have more complex conversations around these notions,

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<v Speaker 2>around colorism and privilege. What I hope this book does

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<v Speaker 2>is get us in conversation with each other, because black

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<v Speaker 2>women are going to save this world if it can

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<v Speaker 2>be saved, absolutely, and so we need to heal ourselves.

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<v Speaker 1>It feels new and fresh when folks are saying, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>Lupita Nyungo is so beautiful, and so is Isa Ray,

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<v Speaker 1>and so are these dark skinned black women, and that

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<v Speaker 1>there was a time where this it was just not

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<v Speaker 1>possible to be characterized as beautiful when you were dark skinned.

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<v Speaker 1>And so if feels like we're making those incremental changes,

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<v Speaker 1>but then it also feels like we're still being held

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<v Speaker 1>back when it comes to the images that we see.

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<v Speaker 1>And you are an image activist, can you unpack what

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<v Speaker 1>that means to you today, especially in a media ecosystem

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<v Speaker 1>that is driven by algorithms, clicks and the spectacle of

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<v Speaker 1>it all.

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<v Speaker 2>I a long time ago put all my chips on

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<v Speaker 2>black women, like all of them. And if there's any

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<v Speaker 2>group in this population that is going to work to

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<v Speaker 2>become whole, it's black women. So I'm very encouraged by

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<v Speaker 2>the Independent media that black women are making and making,

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<v Speaker 2>so whether it's on Instagram or TikTok, there's so many

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<v Speaker 2>other places to go. It's not just back in the

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<v Speaker 2>day where it's like just MTV. You know, you were

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<v Speaker 2>like where big pop culture was happening. Because that's what

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<v Speaker 2>we're really talking about, right, this pop culture and how

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<v Speaker 2>it influences us. And you know, I was making magazines

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<v Speaker 2>like Vibe and Honey and magazines were Instagram and so

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<v Speaker 2>it's so much to consume. And I'm still exploring this

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<v Speaker 2>because it's challenging these times because it's just so much,

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<v Speaker 2>so fast, and black women are being targeted in a

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<v Speaker 2>way like if we And this is also where history

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<v Speaker 2>is so instructive. I think part of our revolution and

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<v Speaker 2>liberation and healing is coming together irl, like in real life,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, putting down the media, putting down the phones.

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<v Speaker 2>Just you know what brunch looks like. You get a

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<v Speaker 2>brunch and you see all these black girls dressed up.

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<v Speaker 2>You just get like something and you just flutters and flourishes.

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<v Speaker 1>The vibes are always just right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So we have to take care of our mental

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<v Speaker 2>and emotional self because it's tough right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely absolutely, you know, you briefly mentioned your work with magazines,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to talk about that a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>because I feel like magazines are the lost art. I

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<v Speaker 1>am old enough to remember picking up a Vibe magazine

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<v Speaker 1>my uncle used to have them at his house, or

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<v Speaker 1>picking up Essence and living through the pages and just

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<v Speaker 1>like loving every bit of it. And it was also

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<v Speaker 1>the first time I was really seeing like black women

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<v Speaker 1>high fashion shoots.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the book you talk about the rise and

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<v Speaker 1>challenges of black media institutions like Vibe and Essence. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you talk more about why that form of black media

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<v Speaker 1>was so important during that time and what it meant

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<v Speaker 1>to Black folks who were experiencing those magazines.

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<v Speaker 2>It was so powerful because for generations, even though Black

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<v Speaker 2>people knew they were innovators and culture specifically not only

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<v Speaker 2>That's why I love Evan like vintage Ebony will give

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<v Speaker 2>you life. And God blessed the Astrogates who has kept

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<v Speaker 2>the archive in Chicago. Bless that artist, because it's really

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<v Speaker 2>important to see all the black progress and innovation. But

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<v Speaker 2>in culture, we had never had a record that we

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<v Speaker 2>wrote specifically, and hip hop was that rocket, right because

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<v Speaker 2>we had money, we had some positionality. We had some agency,

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<v Speaker 2>so we had a chance to in our own tongues,

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<v Speaker 2>with our own eyes create you know, si Like while

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<v Speaker 2>there was a rolling Stone and a spin and a billboard,

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<v Speaker 2>there's vibe, you know. And so it was very powerful

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<v Speaker 2>that you didn't have to wait to be anointed to

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<v Speaker 2>be on the color of Rolling Stone as a black artist,

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<v Speaker 2>and that we would talk critically about Snoop or right

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<v Speaker 2>really like spent a month investigating Lauren Hill. That was important.

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<v Speaker 2>And we had something to run to. I remember back

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<v Speaker 2>in the day, like you would run to get your

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<v Speaker 2>write old magazine, but that was like people you know

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<v Speaker 2>this this was like critical journalism, top rate photography, new trends.

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<v Speaker 2>We were the leaders. We got in front of pop culture.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was monumental and it was too short. But

0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 2>I actually have been in the process of writing the book,

0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 2>especially that part, experienced some grief around the fact that

0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:47.440
<v Speaker 2>we don't have a town square in media in that way,

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 2>like there's lots of small, great pockets, whether they're podcasts

0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.479
<v Speaker 2>or subjects or whatever, like you would look to essence.

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, we aren't all coalescing around one big correct.

0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I'm very I'm sad that we don't have

0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 2>a vibe or a honey or an essence that has

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.400
<v Speaker 2>a real presence in the culture.

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.400
<v Speaker 1>So if someone is listening to you right now and

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.200
<v Speaker 1>they're saying I want to get into media, whether it's

0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 1>social media, print, editorial, you know, whatever the format, what

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 1>advice do you have for them.

0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, we're actually trying to do in the

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 2>work right now because part of writing the book. And

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.880
<v Speaker 2>this is just my perspective, right Like, there are a

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.720
<v Speaker 2>lot of other I'm sure there're gonna be some editors

0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.360
<v Speaker 2>are going to come for me because I came for them.

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 2>But I just wanted something on record that we could

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:58.800
<v Speaker 2>reflect on together because I don't know. What I do

0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 2>know is that we're always seeds, right like, we always

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 2>find something else. I just don't know what it is.

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.439
<v Speaker 2>But part of why I wanted a record of what

0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.919
<v Speaker 2>happened from what I saw to partly be a cautionary tale.

0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:21.639
<v Speaker 2>The money, the patriarchy, the lack of support. When I

0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:23.400
<v Speaker 2>was contributing to Vanity.

0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:24.919
<v Speaker 1>Fair, I was just about to bring that up.

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:29.400
<v Speaker 2>More than fifty percent of their photoshoots would be canned.

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.879
<v Speaker 2>The amount of money that they put in the trash

0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 2>was my entire photo budget for Honey, So there was

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 2>no room for experimentation. There's no room for black girl imagination.

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 2>We just had to hit the track and win before

0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 2>they even saw we were out there running. And the

0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:55.199
<v Speaker 2>advertising industry is notoriously racist. Hip hop helped break some

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 2>of that up, but as you see it for tracks

0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.000
<v Speaker 2>like there's a moment where we're hot, and you know,

0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.840
<v Speaker 2>I had several friends this is kind of bleak, but

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 2>I had several friends that said, like George Floyd was

0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:11.720
<v Speaker 2>their executive producer, Like they got their shows done or

0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.959
<v Speaker 2>their organizations funded because of George Floyd. And the guilt

0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:21.680
<v Speaker 2>not that's over, they're taking DEI. So we're always vulnerable

0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.359
<v Speaker 2>if we only look to establishment, and that's why history

0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:31.040
<v Speaker 2>is really really instructive. Absolutely, so I hope to have

0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:36.399
<v Speaker 2>many of these cross gen conversations so we can have

0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.440
<v Speaker 2>some strategy about how to build and maybe how to

0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:48.360
<v Speaker 2>perhaps recover and restore. Very early on, I started an

0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 2>esthetic practice of looking at life and beauty not through

0:18:55.359 --> 0:19:00.920
<v Speaker 2>a Eurocentric lens. That is harder than it sounds, particularly

0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.440
<v Speaker 2>with you know, if I'm coming of age in the

0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.960
<v Speaker 2>eighties and nineties and I'm looking at Vogue because I

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.520
<v Speaker 2>was a fashion girl, like I looked to that fashion

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.760
<v Speaker 2>in art. There's a photographer that I referenced a lot

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 2>in the book, Ruven Fonnador, who's brilliant and he's Colombian,

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 2>and he too didn't work from a Eurocentric lens. So

0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.200
<v Speaker 2>what that means, how that plays into real life or

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.960
<v Speaker 2>when I was contributing to Vanity Fair, is that when

0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 2>we and we often did things together, we did not

0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:39.760
<v Speaker 2>create images through their lens and they didn't quite know it.

0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:46.280
<v Speaker 2>They knew something cool was happening, but we also did

0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 2>it at the level of craft that they were accustomed to, right,

0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.959
<v Speaker 2>meaning our tech nicole, our craft was on par and

0:19:55.000 --> 0:20:00.800
<v Speaker 2>maybe even superior. So if one is wanting to work

0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:08.200
<v Speaker 2>in the mainstream wherever that is fashion, law, tech, science,

0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.760
<v Speaker 2>come with your own lens and look, you know, because

0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:18.920
<v Speaker 2>science and science however, the scientist is right, you know

0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.080
<v Speaker 2>what I mean, the body of the person through which

0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:26.399
<v Speaker 2>this information flows. Absolutely So I think that that was

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>the strategy and I worked on it for years and

0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 2>again it wasn't easy. So that's important for us to

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:39.480
<v Speaker 2>consume the beauty of us, whether it's art, whether it's

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.240
<v Speaker 2>soul trained whether it's reading books.

0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, Michaela, I think this is such a great point.

0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:49.080
<v Speaker 1>I think something that folks grapple with is being one

0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.480
<v Speaker 1>of one in a room and trying to push the

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:57.520
<v Speaker 1>envelope and being a little afraid of being ostracized because

0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 1>they're coming with a different perspective that might not be

0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:02.920
<v Speaker 1>accepted by the mainstream media.

0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:09.040
<v Speaker 2>What are you afraid of? Because we're so familiar in

0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 2>white spaces. We know their history, we know their institutions,

0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:18.760
<v Speaker 2>we know their tricks. Why are we bothered? And not

0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.439
<v Speaker 2>so much bothered because it's annoying because it is the

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:26.720
<v Speaker 2>same tricks, But why are we afraid? We know who

0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.080
<v Speaker 2>they are? They don't know who we are. We have

0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot of power. If we didn't, they wouldn't try

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.480
<v Speaker 2>to take our vote. If they didn't, they wouldn't try

0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.320
<v Speaker 2>to take our jobs. If they didn't, they wouldn't try

0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:43.240
<v Speaker 2>to take our titles.

0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 1>I really loved everything that Michaela had to say. It

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.560
<v Speaker 1>really gives a fresh perspective on her because she's definitely

0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.560
<v Speaker 1>a black woman who I feel like I've seen my

0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:57.520
<v Speaker 1>whole life. And to hear her stories, her personal stories

0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:01.119
<v Speaker 1>about her life and the work that she's done, and

0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.000
<v Speaker 1>how as a photo activist, how she's been able to

0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of disrupt the system. I think it's really encouraging

0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.480
<v Speaker 1>because it doesn't end with her. She's passing the torch

0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.240
<v Speaker 1>on to the next generation and we can already see

0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.120
<v Speaker 1>the shifts happening right in front of us. So true.

0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Tt SO, I think when we look at media and

0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:23.880
<v Speaker 1>we're on social media or looking in magazines or watching movies,

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.080
<v Speaker 1>that we should always keep in mind that there's a

0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:30.720
<v Speaker 1>long history of the treatment of women of color, specifically

0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.879
<v Speaker 1>black women, that we also need to be remembering. And

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.120
<v Speaker 1>so when you see a black woman being talked about

0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:40.800
<v Speaker 1>in the media, ask yourself a few questions like is

0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.919
<v Speaker 1>she being treated fairly? Is this the same treatment that

0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:46.920
<v Speaker 1>a white woman would receive? And if you don't feel

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.240
<v Speaker 1>like it is, call it out because this is how

0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:53.760
<v Speaker 1>we make strides. It's when people say this isn't right

0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.240
<v Speaker 1>and we need to be different, we need to be better.

0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:07.960
<v Speaker 1>You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope

0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Labs podcast tt is on X and Instagram at dr

0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Underscore t Sho, and you can find zakiya at z

0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.639
<v Speaker 1>said so. Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media.

0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:22.439
<v Speaker 1>Our supervising producer is Keegan Zimma and our producer is

0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Issara Asevez. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed

0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:31.159
<v Speaker 1>by James Farber. Limanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and

0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Production is Jackie Dansinger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is

0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:41.080
<v Speaker 1>Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original music composed

0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, with

0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:50.120
<v Speaker 1>additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive produced

0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:53.240
<v Speaker 1>by us T T show Dia and Zakiah Watki