1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. If we don't know 3 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can die 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: before you die, then you can really live. There's a 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah, 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do because there was 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second. And 11 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, 13 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy. 14 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat, I am the host, 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: and quick reminder before we get into everything that although 17 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: this podcast is hosted by a therapist and it's called 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: You Need Therapy, this does not serve as a replacement 19 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: or substitute for any actual mental health services. However, we 20 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: always hope that it might help you at some point 21 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: in some way on someday. Okay, So today I am 22 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: coming to you guys as a fresh new thirty four 23 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: year old that has learned on an even deeper level 24 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: this past year how much there is out there that 25 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: I am so wildly clueless on. And it actually feels 26 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: pretty liberating to own the idea of not knowing, which 27 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: is interesting to say the least. And when I started 28 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: this podcast in twenty nineteen, on which I guess would 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: be four years ago. But when I started this podcast, 30 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: I put so much pressure on myself to appear to 31 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: be an expert and to have all of the answers 32 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: the right answers. And the more I study and the 33 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: more I planned and created a new episode, the more 34 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: I eventually learned that there was so much more for 35 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: me to learn, which is a tongue twister. I know 36 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: that might not make any sense, and it feels very 37 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: liberating to live in that tongue twister. It feels very 38 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 1: liberating to sit in that idea that the more I learn, 39 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: the more I'll be aware that there's more for me 40 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: to learn. And I know some stuff, and I know 41 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: a good bit about some stuff, but I also know 42 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: that it's okay, to not always know, and to listen 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: and to read and to just take stuff in sometimes, 44 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: which is also a weird experience because on this podcast 45 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: most of the time, I'm not the one taking stuff in. 46 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm the one talking. But I say that partly because 47 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: a lot of what I talk about on here are 48 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: conversations that I have within my head and on paper 49 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: before I bring them to you, and a lot of 50 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: those conversations I am in a learning process. And I 51 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: don't know if this comes from like middle school trauma, 52 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, like the earth shattering experiences I think a 53 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: lot of us have had during things like popcorn reading, 54 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: where you are waiting to be called on just to 55 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: find out that you don't know how to pronounce a 56 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: word that's in your section and then have immense panic, 57 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: or I don't know, being simply super excited to answer 58 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: a question in class just to be shot down immediately 59 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: in front of your entire class, which resulted in me 60 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: never wanting to even try to answer something, even if 61 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: I did think I knew the answer, because the fear 62 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: of getting it wrong was far greater than the joy 63 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: of getting it right. One of my most vivid memories 64 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: of not middle school. But first grade was when a 65 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: police officer came to talk to our class, and I'm 66 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: not sure why he really came, but he did talk 67 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: to us about I remember drinking and driving, and then 68 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: he talked to us about stop lights and how red 69 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: meant to stop. And I remember raising my hand and 70 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: saying something like, well, you can turn on red lights sometimes, though, right, 71 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: And he so aggressively, or at least it felt like 72 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: to me in that moment, let me know in front 73 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: of my class that I was incorrect, which shattered me. 74 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: It was super embarrassing, and I remember that. I don't 75 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: remember a lot from first grade, but I do remember that, 76 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: and I think my teacher must have spotted me having 77 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: misty eyes or maybe red cheeks. I don't know what. 78 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: Maybe I just held my head down. I don't know 79 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: what it was, or maybe she just cringed at the 80 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: idea that this police officer just so assuredly shot me 81 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: down in my time of excitement. So when he left, 82 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: she did stay in front of the whole class that 83 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: he was wrong and I was right. So that's a 84 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: big deal. There was some repair. We would call that repair. 85 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: So thank you to my first grade teacher. My first 86 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: grade teacher was really great. Anyway, my whole point here 87 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: in the way I'm starting this out, is that I 88 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: think I grew up in in an era where sometimes 89 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: it felt like you shouldn't act like a student, like 90 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: even if you are in the place of learning, like 91 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: in a place of learning, if you're at school, you're 92 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: supposed to know what's going on, like you're supposed to 93 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: know the answer. And I think maybe that comes to play. 94 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: I have a lot of anxiety around, like not knowing 95 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: where to go or feeling stupid if I don't know 96 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: what I'm supposed to do when I go to a 97 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: new place, and I think it might tie back to 98 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: a little of this. And I also know there's other 99 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: people that experience that same thing, and part of it 100 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: might come from this idea that growing up, even when 101 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: we were in a place of learning, it felt like 102 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: we were supposed to already know things. And now, which 103 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: is so interesting to acknowledge, and I think, also, I'm 104 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: smiling as I say this, so fun to acknowledge that 105 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: I'm not in school anymore yet. Now more than ever, 106 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: I'm embracing this student mindset and it's just a really 107 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: nice place to be. So I wanted to start off 108 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: just acknowledging that because that's something that I've been really 109 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: personally working on for a couple of years. But I 110 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: think in the last year I really really started to 111 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: embrace the art of not knowing. And if it's something 112 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: that you've been contemplating or something that you've been struggling with, 113 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: I'm just here to let you know that it's good 114 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: over here, and if you want to come hang out 115 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: with me over here, I welcome you. Now, we could 116 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: spend forty five minutes talking about all the experiences that 117 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: scarred me during my childhood. Today. We could do that, 118 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: and I think, honestly it would be somewhat of an 119 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: entertaining episode. But I'm going to raise the bar a 120 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: little bit. I'm going to do you one better, and 121 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the experiences that scarred me, 122 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: and we're going to add something to the end of that. 123 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about if it's okay for us 124 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: to laugh at these experiences that at one point were 125 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: somewhat painful for me. So in a nutshell, today we're 126 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: discussing where the line lies between humor and trauma and 127 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: if it's okay to laugh during there. So the idea 128 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: of this episode all started earlier this week when one 129 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: of my best friends from high school sent me a 130 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: screenshot of a post she had written on or a 131 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: post that I had written, like a post that I 132 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: had left on her timeline in twenty twelve, and in 133 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: the post, I referenced something that reminded me of a 134 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: time when in high school my dad through see I'm 135 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: kind of laughing even retelling this story, my dad threw 136 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: my car keys into the woods behind our house and 137 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: I didn't remember why he did that and asked my mom, 138 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: and she said I was trying to run away to 139 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: go to my friend's house. And we're assuming that I 140 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: was trying to run away because I was mad at 141 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,119 Speaker 1: my mom. And there is a phase of high school 142 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: where I was like just consistently mad at my mom. 143 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: And I think we can attribute a lot of that 144 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: anger to being a teenager and just the emotions and 145 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: the growing pains of finding a line between who I 146 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: am and responsibility and you know, rules and a lot, 147 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: you know, being a teenager, it's tough, and I took 148 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: it out on my mom a lot. I can't say 149 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: in this experience. If I had a right to be 150 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: this angry my feelings, I can say we're valid because 151 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: I had them. But all I know is I was 152 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: trying to run away. My dad threw my keys into 153 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: the woods. What is funny when it comes to this story. One, 154 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: I don't think we ever found my keys. I don't remember, 155 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: and if we did, it's because my dad had to 156 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: go look for them, which is funny in the sense 157 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: that he did that to himself. But I still made 158 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: it to my friend's house. I actually had her sister 159 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: come pick me up, her older sister, and then she 160 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: drove me to their house. And I was crying so 161 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: much that I had like popped a contact out or 162 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: ripped a contact. And if you knew me in high school, 163 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: and going off of kind of what I just said, 164 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: I was a very very, very dedicated student. So in 165 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: pure Catherine fashion, I was kind of panics. I didn't 166 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: have my contact, but I need to study and I 167 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: couldn't read my note cards without my contact. So my 168 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: friend had made me a eyepatch out of an old 169 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: T shirt I think, and tying some hairbands around it 170 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: and then tying that around my head. So we just 171 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: had this fun memory of me sitting in her bed 172 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: like half crying, with a shirt tied around my head, 173 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: trying to study for probably an anatomy test that had 174 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: no bearing on my life. So telling that story to 175 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: you now, I can find a lot of humor in it, 176 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: and I'm again I'm smiling as I'm sharing the story. 177 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: And it wasn't very funny when it happened, or at 178 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: least it wasn't funny to me, And telling that story 179 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of this other time where again 180 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm laughing a little bit now. But I in high 181 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: school also had my door taken off of the hinges 182 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: of my bedroom in response to me slamming it when 183 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: I got mad at my parents, And then I was 184 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: without a door for a couple of weeks, and I 185 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: think my dad said that he was just waiting for 186 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: me to ask him to put it back on, and 187 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: I never did, and I was probably trying to act 188 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: like I didn't care and it didn't bother me. And 189 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: so again, funny story, like we laughed about that all 190 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: the time now, but when it happened, I wasn't laughing 191 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: like I was sad. I was upset. I was angry 192 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: all of the things, And when my friend sent me 193 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: that post, I had this urge because I thought it 194 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: would be interesting to put a question box on my 195 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: Instagram story, asking people of funny ways their parents punish 196 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: them or funny consequences they got as a kid that 197 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: maybe weren't funny then but are funny now. And I 198 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: couldn't figure out a way to really word it or 199 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: frame it, because anyway I said it, I was like, Oh, 200 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: this might be too close, like flying too close to 201 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: the sun, in the sense that any way I worded it, 202 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: I felt like I was encouraging people to make fun 203 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: of experiences that might have been traumatic for them. And 204 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: I personally don't ever want to enc courage making light 205 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: of someone's trauma in a harmful way. And this is 206 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: where I really want to tread very carefully, because even 207 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: that sentence can be taken the wrong way. And I'm 208 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: not always the best with my words. Sometimes I'm too careful, 209 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: sometimes I'm not careful enough, and it's easy to misinterpret 210 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: what other people are saying and what they mean. So 211 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: I want to leave today so much room to be wrong, 212 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: and I want to leave today so much room for 213 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: anybody to disagree with what I'm saying, and I want 214 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: to leave room today for people to have the ability 215 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: to clarify something that I'm saying. And that's always something 216 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: I want you guys to know as listeners that if 217 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: there's ever something that I say this to clients in 218 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,599 Speaker 1: every first session, if there's anything I ever say, or 219 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: a face that I make, or something that just doesn't 220 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: sit right with you, I want you to feel the 221 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: permission to be able to confront me with it in 222 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: a healthy, caring, and safe way. So I did end 223 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: up asking on Instagram if others had a hard time 224 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: deciding when they should laugh or cry, and I got 225 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: some responses of examples that I want to read because 226 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 1: I want to kind of set the stage. I gave 227 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: you some examples of what I'm talking about, but a 228 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: lot of you also said that you have a hard 229 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: time differentiating between if something is traumatic or if something's funny, 230 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: or if it's something traumatic is allowed to be funny. 231 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: And then I asked in that, like, what are some 232 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: of those examples, And this is what some of you 233 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: guys said, and you might relate to a version of 234 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: one of these. So one person said, I had a 235 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: back brace in high school and people used it to 236 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: do knock knock jokes on so I guess they were 237 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: knocking on the brace and then like telling a joke. 238 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: Another person wrote in my sister's cat ran away. My 239 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: dad pulled up next to it where it had been 240 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: hit on the side of the road and asked, is 241 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: that your cat? Another person just said the music industry period, 242 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: which I can only imagine. Another one, my upstairs neighbor died. 243 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: There was a rotten smell for eight days and we 244 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: couldn't figure it out it was my dead neighbor. Another one, 245 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: I was hit by a car while in a crosswalk, 246 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: and while lying there, I was making jokes. Another one, 247 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 1: my father had a three year relationship with my best 248 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: friend from high school, starting our senior year, which seems 249 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: very similar to another person who wrote in saying my 250 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: dad's dating a thirty year old. Another person said we 251 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: laugh about keeping my dad's ashes in a coolip container. 252 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: Sonielle said telling cancer jokes while I was going through cancer, 253 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: And those aren't all of them, but I just wanted 254 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: to just give you an example of some of these 255 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: things that people were like, oh is this funny? Like 256 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: am I allowed to laugh at cancer jokes while I'm 257 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: actually going through this very traumatic experience with my own 258 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: cancer journey. Is that a thing? Is that healthy? Is 259 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: that not healthy? Where do we draw the line? And 260 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: in my work as a therapist, clients, my clients, and 261 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: actually this is just like people in general tend to 262 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: minimize their trauma. It just is something that we can 263 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: usually assume that there's that's going to happen. I don't 264 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: know how many people I've worked with where in their 265 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: intake they've said they don't have trauma, only to find 266 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: out they had an extensive list of very harmful experiences 267 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: in their lives. And sometimes this is because they truly 268 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: don't know that what they went through was not normal. 269 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: But often this is done more purposefully by kind of 270 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: blowing past something, making a sarcastic joke or comment about it, 271 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: or turning it somehow into a joke or kind of 272 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: like a bit like turning an experience into a bit 273 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: like a personality trait. And that experience has become so 274 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: socially accepted, especially on social media, and this is where 275 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: a lot of this conversation, at least in my head 276 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: comes from. Because you will see all these videos and 277 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: these memes and you'll laugh at them, but then you 278 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: have this moment of like, Haha, am I laughing because 279 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: that's funnier? Am I laughing because that's not funny? And 280 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what else to do. And a part 281 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: of me is having this dialogue with you guys today, 282 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: because sometimes it's hard to differentiate between are these memes, 283 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: are these videos that we're relating to, are they helping 284 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: us or are they kind of allowing us and creating 285 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: a space for us to push down lower a wound 286 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: that might need some attention and my desire or some healing. 287 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: And so, whether it's making a joke about a therapist 288 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: calling you out for using humor and making a video 289 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: about that, or making a funny video about how your 290 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: trauma made you have a better personality or the whole 291 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: like do it for the plot theme there is out there, 292 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: or just turning a traumatic story into a funny one. 293 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: This kind of thing is everywhere. We mix humor and 294 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: we mix trauma together, and I am here to talk 295 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: about and maybe discover with you if that is helpful, 296 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: harmful or both. So I'm asking in the question, is 297 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: this bad? Where does humor fit in within the context 298 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: of our own healing journey, and also, is there a 299 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: universal reason that we're all doing this? Are we laughing 300 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: so we don't cry? Are we laughing to avoid feeling 301 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: uncomfortable or sad? Or are we doing that to ease 302 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: a discomfort we're afraid other people might have about our 303 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: own experiences, like minimizing, Oh, you don't have to worry, 304 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: like making a joke about how something's not that big 305 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: of a deal. So if somebody else doesn't have to 306 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: feel sad or bad or uncomfortable? Are we laughing because 307 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: it's funny? Can our trauma be funny? I don't know, 308 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: saying that right there just kind of felt like an oxymoron, 309 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: Like can our trauma be funny? It's like a jumbo shrimp? 310 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: How is a little shrimp jumbo? How is a trauma funny? 311 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: How do we differentiate between something that is traumatic and funny? 312 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: And who who gets to decide that? Who gets to 313 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: decide those things? Like what book out there? What researcher, 314 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: what psychologists? Like? Who gets to decide if something's okay 315 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: or not? That even feels kind of weird of who 316 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: gets to tell us what's okay? To do with our 317 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: own stories, which brings me back to a couple things 318 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: and ideas that we've discussed on here before multiple times. 319 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: One is the question what is trauma right? Who defines trauma? 320 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: And when are we being too sensitive? And when are 321 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: we not being sensitive enough about our experiences and the 322 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: experiences of others. And also this experience where helpers, people 323 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: that are trying to help, whether it's a therapist or 324 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: a friend or a coach, where helpers are trying to 325 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: tell you what you should believe or what you should do, 326 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: and how they end up doing the opposite of what 327 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: we need and they end up kind of doing the 328 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: exact same thing that has happened to us in our 329 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: traumatic stories, where we don't get to have the realization 330 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: or the permission to discern our own needs and discern 331 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: our own beliefs, and that can be a really slippery slope. 332 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: So I really do think depending on who you ask 333 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: these questions to the questions that I mentioned about, you're 334 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: gonna get different answers, which automatically tells us that there's 335 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: probably not a right or a wrong answer. And honestly, 336 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: I'm having this thought that that sentence should I don't 337 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: know should it end up being a drinking game at 338 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: this point on the podcast, because I don't know how 339 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: many times I have said on this podcast, whether it's 340 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: on the Monday episodes or especially on Couch Shocks, that 341 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: I can't give you a right or wrong answer. There 342 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: is no right or wrong, and I don't know. I 343 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: feel like we could be in some trouble if that 344 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: ends up being a drinking game, So maybe we won't 345 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: do that anyway. I think depending on who you ask 346 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: all these questions too, you're going to get different answers, 347 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: which automatically tells us that there is probably not a 348 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: right and there's probably not a wrong answer here, which 349 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: is probably the most famous line from this podcast other 350 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: than have that you need to have, that there is 351 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: no right or wrong regardless. I'm sure you have heard 352 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: people talk about how trauma makes you funnier, and we 353 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: can see some of that through comedians. You know, a 354 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: lot of really notable famous comedians oftentimes come from really 355 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: tough stories in really tough places and have hard upbringings 356 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: that might include a lot of traumatic experiences. And is 357 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: this making lemonade out of lemons? Again? I'm not saying yes, 358 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: or no, But I am going to push the thought 359 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: of this being one of those both and situations that 360 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 1: we all love, where something can be traumatic and we 361 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: can find laughter around some parts of it, and laughter 362 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: can be healing. But this also really does hinge on 363 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: how we find the humor and where the humor comes 364 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: from and what it's kind of wrapped around. And I 365 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: don't necessarily think it always fits right. This is a 366 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: both and it's also a sometimes for starters. There is 367 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: a really big difference between a coping mechanism and a 368 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: defense mechanism. I think a lot of times those words 369 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: are used interchangeably, but they're actually really really different. Where 370 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: a defense mechanism is something that tends to be more 371 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: unconscious and it creates walls per se. It will shield 372 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: us from experiencing discomfort and vulnerability. But when these are used, 373 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: it is usually happening from a super unconscious place. People 374 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: are not super aware that they're doing it. They're not saying, hey, 375 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: I want to pick that defense mechanism today and put 376 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: it right here. They can be aware of it. That 377 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: usually happens after it's been pointed out or noted or 378 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: somebody's called this out on them. Before and examples of 379 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: defense mechanisms. We actually did a whole entire episode on 380 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: this a while ago, so if you look up you 381 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: need therapy defense mechanisms, you can learn all about some 382 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: of the most common ones. But a couple examples of 383 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: these are projection, reaction, formation, minimization, isolation, where we are 384 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: subconsciously using one of these mechanisms to help us, the 385 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: jury is not completely out on the fact that they 386 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: don't usually help us. And then a coping mechanism, or really, 387 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: I think a better term for this a lot of 388 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: times is coping skill, on the other hand, is something 389 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: that you choose way more consciously to help you cope 390 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: with discomfort, help you sit with the discomfort or the 391 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: vulnerability or something that is impairing you in some way. 392 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: An example of some coping skills would be journaling, movement, 393 00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: self soothing techniques, checking the facts, square breathing. Think of 394 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: this in a way of a coping skill is something 395 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 1: that we use in order to be able to sit 396 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: with our feelings, versus a defense mechanism is something that 397 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: we use in order to avoid them. So a coping 398 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: skill is an adaptive situation thing skill mechanism, A defense 399 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: mechanism is more of a maladaptive for the most part experience, 400 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: meaning they kind of make things worse or they're just 401 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: not helpful. So where does humor land. Is it a 402 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: defense mechanism or is it a coping skill? So where 403 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: does humor land? Is it a defense mechanism or is 404 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: it a coping skill? And this is what makes us 405 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: kind of difficult to answer really succinctly, is that I 406 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: think it can land in the middle, and it's not 407 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: always what you're using like humor, it's really just how 408 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: are we using it. It's also super important to acknowledge 409 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: that using defense mechanisms is not always bad. Again, this 410 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 1: is confusing because I just said they're not very helpful. 411 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: It's not always bad. So often our unconscious will resort 412 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: to these when we don't feel it's safe to experience 413 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: what it is that our defenses are shielding us from. 414 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: So I think a lot of times in therapy, clients 415 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: who use humor can be labeled really easily as resistant clients, 416 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: but often that resistance is more mislabeled protection or mislabeled 417 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: automatic responses, like a trauma response that you learned from 418 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: your traumatic experience. It's how you survive. There's survival traits 419 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: of trauma, and so in this type of scenario, defense 420 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: mechanisms become problems. When we're now on a space or 421 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: a place where we actually can find safety, you're not 422 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: in that same environment, but we still are using these defenses. 423 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: So we're still in survival mode within our bodies and 424 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: with in our psyche, but our physical bodies aren't still 425 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: in that dangerous environment. So what we end up doing 426 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: is we create these dysfunctional patterns for ourselves, and instead 427 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: of keeping us safe at this point, we end up 428 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: keeping ourselves from experiencing real true love connection relationship. I mean, 429 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: you can insert anything that you end up keeping yourself 430 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: from there. And an example of how this might develop 431 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: would be like if you grew up in a dysfunctional 432 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: household and you take on the role of the family mascot, 433 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: and what you do is you tend to crack jokes 434 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: to break tension in times of extreme chaos in your home. 435 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: So that might be your way of surviving an experience 436 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: that you can't control, versus pushing away feelings just because 437 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: you don't want to deal with them. Right, But as 438 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: you move out of that system, you might experience problems 439 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: when you are in a healthier environment. You are with 440 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: people who are able to have vulnerable and tough and 441 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: just are able to have conflict in a really healthy 442 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: way and love you through that. You might actually end 443 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: up hurting yourself in these situations when you are consistently 444 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: avoiding these tough conversations by cracking jokes, or you just 445 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: end up avoiding serious experiences with people by making light 446 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: of vulnerability with that humor. So where it was really 447 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: helpful and it allowed you to stay in that environment 448 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: that you couldn't leave as a kid, you now are 449 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: in a different environment. You also have the ability to 450 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: change your environments, but you're still using those same skills 451 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: which are now keeping you from having deeper relationships with people. 452 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: So where can humor be used as a coping skill 453 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: instead of just a defense mechanism that might eventually turn 454 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: against us like in that example. To start naming some 455 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: of these a psychology just named Doctor Samuel Kahn actually 456 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: identified five primary functions that humor serves for individuals and 457 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: groups in a book titled Why and How We Laugh? 458 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: And I want to share those with you as we 459 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: begin this conversation, of how humor can be helpful in 460 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: experiences that suck. So the first one he just names 461 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: as coping and says, by using humor as a coping mechanism, 462 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: people are able to bear the burden of suffering or misfortune. 463 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 1: This is done by recognizing the incongruity of believing that 464 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: one is the only person suffering, thus increasing one's sense 465 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: of shared humanity. To reframing, this involves looking at things 466 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: in a different way, a form of cognitive reappraisal with 467 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: effective elements. Three Communicating humor can be an unobtrusive way 468 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: of seeking help. If a person moans and groans continuously 469 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: to a person or a potential helper, they are in 470 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: fact less likely to help and will avoid the complainer. 471 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: Using humor can disarm their defenses and also convey the 472 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: message that while help is needed, the person seeking help 473 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: is essentially able to cope and will not place unbearable 474 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: burden upon the helpers. Number four expressing hostility. This one, 475 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: I will say, this is me speaking. This is one 476 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: is really interesting because I can see the argument of 477 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: why this can be helpful. We also have to be 478 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: careful because there's an opposite side of this. He says humor, 479 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: particularly sarcasm and irony, can be a very sophisticated expression 480 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: of anger and criticism and are hard to answer since 481 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: an attack is conveyed in such a way as to 482 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: circumvent logic and rational discussion. So he even mentions this 483 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: can be positive but also can have negative consequences, especially 484 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of kind like the level of understanding that 485 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: the person you're saying this is able to receive. If 486 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: we're using sarcasm, Yes, it might make it easier for 487 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: us to express our hostility or our feelings. It also 488 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: might send the wrong message and doesn't really create an 489 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: awesome space for us to have a honest conversation. However, 490 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: it might be helpful in the sense that it opens 491 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: the door that one I could take or leave, and 492 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: then we have five constructing identities. By expressing a sense 493 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: of humor, a person gives out the message that they 494 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: are fun, loving, easygoing in good company. Too much humor, however, 495 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: may result in people forming the judgment that they are 496 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: immature and shallow. Once again, balance is needed to be 497 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: struck here. So I just wanted to read those because 498 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: I think this book might be an interesting read in general, 499 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: but this person is kind of just putting out there 500 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: that there are multiple functions that humor plays. Some of 501 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: them have downside, have downsides, but a lot of them 502 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: can be really positive. And this whole thing around humor 503 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: and how it's used got me thinking about how I 504 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: personally show up as a therapist versus how I was 505 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: taught to show up when I was in school. I 506 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: just think and again, why I wanted to read those 507 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: five functions of humor, even if I don't fully agree 508 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: with all of them, is humor sometimes just gets a 509 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: bad reputation in general of yeah, we all want to laugh, 510 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: and it's good to be funny in all this, but 511 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: people that use humor, maybe that means that they're not smart, 512 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: or they can't take things seriously, or they're lacking of something, 513 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: or it is just a defense mechanism and it's a 514 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: way to feel XYZ when you don't feel like you 515 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: have a sense of self. And you know, when I 516 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: was in school, and I think a lot of people 517 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: I can't speak to this if it still happens because 518 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm not in school anymore. But when I was in 519 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: grad school for therapy, we were kind of encouraged to 520 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: take this old age type of psychotherapist approach where you're 521 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: just kind of the blank space. You don't really show 522 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: a lot of emotion and personality, and you just kind 523 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: of are this open nothingness, where the idea is it 524 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: might allow a better space for the client to show 525 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: up more fully without fearing the reactions of the therapists. However, 526 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: it can be a pretty alarming experience to sit across 527 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: from somebody and be expected to divulge your deepest thoughts 528 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: in such a stale environment, and that type of energy 529 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: doesn't always support feeling safe or feeling seen, and it's 530 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: one of the reasons it's not as popular these days. 531 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: And I don't think that that is a phenomenon that 532 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: is exclusive to therapy. If we think about professionalism and 533 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: how that plays out in our head, like what image 534 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: do you get when you think about being professional? It's 535 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: often painted with a very serious nature, not a fun 536 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: when it's a cool, playful image. At least that's not 537 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: what I'm getting. And I actually even talked about this 538 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: when I was at the physical therapist this morning, because 539 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: we just tend to talk about random things when I'm 540 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: in there, and I was mentioning kind of the article 541 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: that I was reading that had these five functions of humor, 542 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: and she said they were given the same kind of 543 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: encouragement as to not share too much personal information or 544 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: kind of show up as the professional versus appear. And 545 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: there is a power differential one hundred percent in those settings. 546 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: And I think that power differential can be very, very 547 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: helpful and it's important to acknowledge. At the same time, 548 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: we don't want to create these kind of pedestals where 549 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: the professional, especially in helping professions, the professional becomes sort 550 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: of this like godlike creature, and it kind of takes 551 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: away from the client in any of these places, whether 552 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: it's at the doctor's office, the physical therapist, the therapist, 553 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: a dietitian, it takes away the client's ability to show 554 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: up as they normally would like. If I have a 555 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: doctor that's very stoic, I don't really feel super comfortable 556 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: to ask questions. And if they're using a lot of 557 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: jargon and showing up as just very I mean academic 558 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: in some way, and I don't feel safe enough to 559 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: clarify what he's saying, I'm not really getting what I 560 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: need out of that experience. And I have a couple 561 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: of thoughts on this idea that professionalism has to be 562 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: always so serious. I think that yes, there is a 563 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: need for seriousness, especially in therapy world, like we are 564 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: talking about very serious things, and when we're doing certain 565 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: things within even like the business world and all of that, 566 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: there is a need for people to be serious. I'm 567 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: not saying like, let's make everything a joke and everything 568 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: a game, but when it is so black and white 569 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: one or the other, these two thoughts come into my mind. 570 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: One is life is going to become too overwhelming if 571 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: there's no play, no fun, or no levity. And two, 572 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: I don't know how to connect with nothing. And when 573 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,239 Speaker 1: it comes to processing our trauma, what we know is 574 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: we often heal through relationships and we have to leave 575 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: space somewhere for levity and play to come through. We 576 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: have to leave space for personality to come through. We 577 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: have to leave space for our relationship to come through 578 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: in these offices, in these moments. And there's an article 579 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: written in the Indian Journal of Psychiatry by g I 580 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: don't know how to say his last name, so I'm 581 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: sure I'm gonna butcher it swamineth, swimineth anyway, He writes 582 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: in there. We are defenseless without humor. If we fail 583 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: to see the irony in our circumstances, the situation may 584 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: appear dispiriting. Laughter is a way of thumbing one's nose 585 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: at the inescapable and incomprehensible truths of existence and declaring, 586 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: I choose to rise above this. I choose to meet 587 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: life head on. Laughter is freedom and in the same 588 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: article he notes that humor on the part of the 589 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: therapist in the therapist's role can be of a lot 590 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: of help to clients in a number of ways, including 591 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: creating a more relaxed atmosphere and helping to break down barriers, 592 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: conveying the message that the therapist is a human humility 593 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: that's huge in the need for healing and growth. They 594 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: can build trust and empathy. If used appropriately, it can 595 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: help the client to relax and possibly lift some repressions 596 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: that they have. It can convey a message succinctly and 597 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: effectively if used correctly, It encourages communication on sensitive matters. 598 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: It can be a source of insight and conflict. It 599 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: can help overcome a stiff and formal communication style, and 600 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: it can facilitate the acting out of feelings or impulses 601 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: in a safe, non threatening way, which that lasts one 602 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: is huge non threatening way when it comes to therapy. 603 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: A lot of the traumas that we've had were very threatening. 604 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: There was no play involved, there was no levity, there 605 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: was no fun, and so inviting in this idea of 606 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: fun and again just laughter, almost like this childlike experience, 607 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: really allows us to heal those wounds in those guards 608 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: and those things that we've created in response to our 609 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: trauma and response to those moments where there was no levity. 610 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of those things that I 611 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: mentioned can be turned back to the client and turned 612 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: back towards ourselves as well. Humor and laughter can help 613 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,359 Speaker 1: break down barriers that can help build trust, et cetera. 614 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: All those things you can also just turn those back 615 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: into us. And this is where we're using it to 616 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: cope versus shield us from the reality that we don't 617 00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: want to see. It honestly, might sound like the same 618 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: thing to you coping in the defense mechanisms when it 619 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: comes to humor, and maybe the difference is so small 620 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: sometimes it's easy to cross over one to the other. 621 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: But I have this pool in me to just leave 622 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,959 Speaker 1: more space for laughter. Within our stories. And I don't 623 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: want to get this confused with making fun of our 624 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: trauma or making fun of ourselves or others. I'm not 625 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: sitting here contemptuously laughing at younger Catherine for having feelings, crying, 626 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: or getting in trouble. I'm not laughing at her. I'm 627 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: more laughing with the rebellious part of me that thought 628 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: I was going to pull one over at my dad 629 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: by slamming the door in his face, only to find 630 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,399 Speaker 1: out that he took the door off of my room. 631 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: Or I'm laughing at the fact that my dad thought 632 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: he was going to pull one over on me by 633 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: throwing my keys into the woods, only for me to 634 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: find another way to get there and for him to 635 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 1: have to go search through the woods for my keys. 636 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: And so I'm not laughing at or making fun of 637 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: a situation, and I hope that is coming through. And 638 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: another example, I'm not laughing at the fact that maybe 639 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: somebody's parent has died or abandoned them as a kid. 640 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: That isn't funny, and I don't think that will ever 641 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: be funny. Personally, I don't find it to be funny, 642 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 1: but you can find some levity in the you know 643 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,919 Speaker 1: we're all in this together nature of common wounds that 644 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: those who experienced this type of loss encounter, or in 645 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: the things that you did to acknowledge the loss, so 646 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: it feels more digestible or approachable. We're not laughing at 647 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: the fact that somebody died. We're finding humor in our 648 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: experience of living a life without something that we're supposed 649 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: to or at least in quotes, supposed to have growing 650 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: up a father or a mother. And I don't also 651 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: want to encourage watering down anyone's trauma. But what I 652 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: do want to acknowledge is I don't know that anyone 653 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: can and operate with the heat on one hundred twenty 654 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: four to seven R. Sometimes the temperature needs to be 655 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 1: taken down a notch so we can feel warm without 656 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: burning ourselves. And we might be able to withstand that 657 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: one hundred degrees and maybe we need to at certain times, 658 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: but we can't live our lives at that temperature if 659 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: we want to have a really fruitful and connected life. 660 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: I want to remind you guys that this doesn't always 661 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: fit my consensus that I have come to and again, 662 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: remember I'm willing to learn more. I'm willing to be wrong, 663 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: and I'm willing to challenge myself and others to think differently. 664 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: But this doesn't always fit. Humor can be helpful, it's 665 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: not always helpful. It has a space in the therapeutic environment. 666 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: It is not always the best coping skill to use. 667 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: And in that same article that I've been referencing, the 668 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 1: author also writes the therapist could point out out that 669 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: the client has used humor to change the topic and 670 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: go on to explore the reason for this. And in 671 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: this he's kind of talking about where humor might be 672 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: used as a defense mechanism during sessions, and he says 673 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: several practitioners have written about the role that fun and 674 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,800 Speaker 1: humor have in psychotherapy and counseling. To be effective, humor 675 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: must be timed appropriately. It is usually unwise to employ 676 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: humor until the therapeutic relationship has been well established. Once 677 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: this involvement with a client exists, it is far more 678 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: likely that humor result in a positive outcome. Therapeutic humor 679 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: has an educative, corrective message, and it helps clients put 680 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 1: situations in perspective. Humor does not involve hostility, ridicule, or 681 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 1: lack of respect. I think this part's really really important, 682 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: So I want to say it again. Humor does not 683 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: involve hostility, ridicule, or lack of respect. On the other hand, 684 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: harmful humor exacerbates a client's problem, undermines a sense of 685 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,399 Speaker 1: personal worth, and leaves the person feeling resentful. It goes 686 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: without saying that humor that undermines the self esteem of 687 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: a client by deprecating and humiliating them is inappropriate and 688 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: works against therapeutic aims, And that's really important. In the caveat, 689 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: I want to put on welcoming humor into our therapeutic 690 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: environments and welcoming humor into our stories that include drama. 691 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: You can apply that to yourself as well, when you're 692 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: asking yourself, is this funny or do I need therapy? Well, 693 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: if I am using humor or jokes to create hostility 694 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: within myself, to ridicule myself, if I am not respecting 695 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: myself when making these jokes, if I am exhibiting self deprecation, 696 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm getting this vision of you're kind of like making 697 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: fun of yourself in the middle of the lunch room. 698 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: You know, you're allowing yourself to be the butt of 699 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: the joke. When it doesn't feel very good. If that's 700 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: what's happening, then that might be something that you want 701 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: to explore if this really is this really healthy and 702 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: is this really helping? And if it's not, what is 703 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: this function like? What might be encouraging me to do this? 704 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: You know, there's this phenomenon too of image management, where 705 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: we do this in all kinds of spaces. We do 706 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: this with what we look like, our stories, our intellect, 707 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: where we will be the first to call ourselves out 708 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: on something, will be the first to make fun of 709 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: ourselves for something, in hopes that we negate the ability 710 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: for somebody else to point that out or make fun 711 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: of us or ridicule us. So we create this illusion 712 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: of power, and that power somehow makes up for the 713 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: fear that somebody else might make me the butt of 714 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: a joke. And if I can make fun of my trauma, 715 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: then nobody else can. I think there's a lot of 716 00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 1: illusions of control in those kinds of experience. And so 717 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: if that's what it feels like you're doing, okay, doesn't 718 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: mean you have to stop doing it right then and there. 719 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 1: But it's something to explore and something to talk about 720 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: and something to bring up and maybe not something to 721 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 1: go viral for on TikTok because it it might push 722 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: you backwards instead of forwards. It's one of those things 723 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: where I think that I'm helping, but I mean, I know, 724 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: for instance, with image management, this happens a lot with 725 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: body images. We walk into the room and we're the 726 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: first one to say, ough, oh my god, my jeans 727 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: are so tight. I look so disgusting in this outfit. 728 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: My hips look so like. You just point all these 729 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: things out the same way that we might point out 730 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: that we have a pimple on our head or our 731 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: channor wherever, and you actually drew attention to something that 732 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: we don't know if anybody was paying attention to. So 733 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: we think we're controlling it and kind of getting in 734 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: front of it, when really we're creating something that might 735 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,760 Speaker 1: not have been there and deepening a message about something, 736 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,399 Speaker 1: whether that's around our body image or about something being 737 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 1: wrong with our stories or something being our fault or 738 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: any of that. So I think, really I need to 739 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: bring myself back to the original question that I mentioned, 740 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: which is is it funny or do I need therapy? 741 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: Is this traumatic or is this a story that I 742 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: can laugh at and I really do think that for 743 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: the most part, this is something that only you can 744 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: actually decide for yourself. Other people, which myself included, might 745 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: have an opinion on your specific story, but it doesn't 746 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: mean that it's right. Doesn't mean that our opinion's right. 747 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: And just because you have defense walls up right now, 748 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,640 Speaker 1: and just because maybe you are using humor as a 749 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 1: defense mechanism right now, it doesn't mean again that that 750 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: is wrong. It doesn't mean that that is bad. It 751 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: may just mean that you aren't ready to look at 752 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: the heaviness or you're not in a space where that 753 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: feels safe. But really, unless somebody's asking me for insight 754 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: on this in my office as a client of mine, 755 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: specifically the judgment of whether you're allowed to laugh at 756 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,760 Speaker 1: your experiences or not, it's really none of my business. 757 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: This actually is full circle, right, because I always have 758 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: at the end of these episodes, just giving you guys 759 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: some behind the scenes here, I always, at the end 760 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: of these episodes want to be able to tie these 761 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,879 Speaker 1: things up in a bow, like I never know really 762 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,919 Speaker 1: how to end them unless I'm teaching a specific thing. 763 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: A lot of these conversations there's not an end. There's 764 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,879 Speaker 1: not an answer that leaves people just that I can 765 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: at least feel like I'm leaving people with like a 766 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: solid like all right, we got it. But it is 767 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: this full circle moment from the beginning of this episode, 768 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: because I started this off talking about how I am 769 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 1: embracing this space where I do not know everything and 770 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: I have so much space to learn, and it's a 771 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: really good place to be. And I have to remind 772 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: myself that right now, like not giving you guys a 773 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,360 Speaker 1: simple answer, is actually a really good place to be 774 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:12,320 Speaker 1: and allowing ourselves to acknowledge that we have to pay attention, listen, 775 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: process our own experiences in order to find an answer. 776 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: There isn't just a way to simply know. Can be 777 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: very like I said earlier, liberating. Yes, we want the 778 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: easy right now. At the same time, we don't have 779 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: to know right now. What's the rush? What would be 780 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 1: better for somebody to rush and give you an answer 781 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: that felt good in the moment, or for somebody to 782 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 1: slow you down and open up space for you to 783 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: figure it out in time that makes sense for you. 784 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: And it's like the underpinnings of therapy, right And why 785 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 1: I get so worked up when people tell you three 786 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,759 Speaker 1: simple steps to get the life you want. You know 787 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 1: that whole saga. I'm not going to go down today. So, 788 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: like I said, I'm pushing this back onto y'all. There 789 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 1: is not an answer to this. We get to decide 790 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:04,359 Speaker 1: for ourselves and it can be both sometimes. Is there 791 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: a way for me to be any more unclear? Probably not. 792 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: So we're going to end it right there. And with 793 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: all of this information, I hope that you guys are 794 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 1: having the day that you need to have, and are 795 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,359 Speaker 1: having the week that you need to have, and are 796 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 1: experiencing the humor that you need to experience in the 797 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: moment right now. I will be back with you guys 798 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 1: on Wednesday for couch Talks. If you don't know what 799 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 1: that is, it is the special bonus episode that I 800 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: put out every Wednesday while I answer questions that you 801 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 1: guys send to me. You can send those to Katherine 802 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: at You Need Therapy podcast dot com and you can 803 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,760 Speaker 1: also follow us on Instagram. I am at cat dot Defada. 804 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:45,759 Speaker 1: In the podcast that it's going to have a lot 805 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: more mental health minded stuff over there is You Need 806 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: Therapy Podcast, and then I have a therapy practice in Nashville. 807 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: We have an Instagram as well that is at three 808 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 1: t r ee chords with an h Therapy, so you 809 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,719 Speaker 1: can follow those if you would like to. If not, 810 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: that's okay. So and again, hope you guys are having 811 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 1: the day you need to have. I will be back 812 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: with you guys on Wednesday