Speaker 1: Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with Higheartradiots and Katie Lows.
Speaker 2: First and foremost, Guillermo Diaz.
Speaker 1: And Katie Lows.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen you in so long. It breaks my
Speaker 2: fucking heart.
Speaker 1: It's fucked up. That's not right.
Speaker 2: But you know, the one place we do hang out
Speaker 2: is on the picket lines, bitch.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, with a ton of other actors.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, a ton of other actors. At the time
Speaker 2: of this recording, the WGA is working it out and
Speaker 2: and airstrike has come to a close. And right now
Speaker 2: sag our union, sag After, Yes, is still at the
Speaker 2: negotiating table and so to be in solidarity with our union,
Speaker 2: sag After And also you know this pending sort of
Speaker 2: murkier area with the WGA, we are doing bonus EPs
Speaker 2: right now, Yes.
Speaker 1: We are. We're doing this new thing where we're going
Speaker 1: to unpack the industry, if you will. So we're going
Speaker 1: to kind of highlight those folks that work in movies
Speaker 1: and television that don't normally get, you know, the attention,
Speaker 1: They don't get the platform to speak about their journey
Speaker 1: and how they got there. And you know where where
Speaker 1: they came from and all of that stuff, which is super,
Speaker 1: super exciting. And again, like Katie said, we're standing in
Speaker 1: solidarity with our you know, with the WGA and with
Speaker 1: our sag after brothers and sisters. So we want to
Speaker 1: be respectful and thoughtful and we thought this is a
Speaker 1: really great way to do that and still continue on
Speaker 1: with the podcast.
Speaker 2: Yes, and give you guys some hot hot content. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: that isn't the REWAT podcast, which will be coming back
Speaker 2: when our awesome negotiating committee gets our fair deal, because
Speaker 2: I'm putting it out there people.
Speaker 1: Yes, we'll be back. And speaking of hot hot content,
Speaker 1: we have a new buddy that's gonna join us on
Speaker 1: unpacking the toolbox. I'm back in the industry and Katie
Speaker 1: and I have worked with her for a long time.
Speaker 1: I've known her forever.
Speaker 2: She's pretty freaking awesome the best. And when we were like,
Speaker 2: let's do some bonus apps where we're not going to
Speaker 2: do the usual rewatch, we will bring that to y'all
Speaker 2: when we get our fair deal, hopefully at some point soon.
Speaker 2: And in the meantime, we're going to bring on this
Speaker 2: cool cool, cool cool check probably one of the coolest chicks,
Speaker 2: who knows a lot more about the industry actually than
Speaker 2: me and g because me and Gen correct, we are
Speaker 2: just act tools. Although Gaiatramo has directed it before. However,
Speaker 2: we were like, let's bring on someone from Shondaland that
Speaker 2: actually knows about all these people. We want to spotlight
Speaker 2: on the bonus apps, like we want to bring in
Speaker 2: makeup and wardrobe and salad supervisors, music supervisor, cinematographers. We
Speaker 2: want to talk to just a lot of the people
Speaker 2: that make Hollywood Hollywood. Yeah, this new content we're bringing
Speaker 2: to you hot off the presses is felt good to us. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but also we needed a little bit of help. Yes,
Speaker 2: G and I were like, who could we bring on
Speaker 2: that knows way more about this than us?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, And the person we wanted wasn't available, So
Speaker 1: non kidding this person listen, I've known this person for
Speaker 1: a really long time. I did a film, one of
Speaker 1: my favorite films with her that she produced, and then
Speaker 1: we spent years making our show of course, where we
Speaker 1: all met and she is should we uh yeah?
Speaker 2: Should we can't give you a few other tips?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, give us some more, give us some
Speaker 1: more likes fine wine.
Speaker 2: She loves dogs, she loves architecture, she loves art, she
Speaker 2: loves Venice, Italy. She loves cool fucking glasses. She likes cool, interesting,
Speaker 2: kind of vintage jewelry pieces.
Speaker 1: And she used to be she used to be a comedian.
Speaker 2: Oh, she's a comedian. She used to be an actress.
Speaker 2: She is the greatest stage direction reader that has ever
Speaker 2: been birthed. On the history of the Santa Earth.
Speaker 1: And Katie she was the original podcaster for the show.
Speaker 1: We would go into her office at Shondaland and get
Speaker 1: interviewed by Homegirl. Yes, so she was the original, the
Speaker 1: original of the og SO.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gents and everyone everywhere. Unpacking the Toolbox, Unpacking
Speaker 2: the Industry, brought to you by Katie Lows, Gear Moodiaz and.
Speaker 1: Betsy Betsy Beers.
Speaker 3: Yea, that's a sound of me laughing. You just unpacked
Speaker 3: my toolbox.
Speaker 1: Yeah we did.
Speaker 3: I didn't have to say anything. My toolbox is just
Speaker 3: all over the place there.
Speaker 2: Well, as you said, this toolbox is heavy.
Speaker 3: It's a heavy toolbox. And I think what's really exciting
Speaker 3: about this is that y'all are going to get to
Speaker 3: hear some really cool stories from folks that we've had
Speaker 3: a chance to work with and really surprising ways that
Speaker 3: people have ended up kind of doing what they're doing
Speaker 3: and loving what they're doing. But what we thought we
Speaker 3: would do today is a big special treat for me
Speaker 3: and for hopefully anybody else is I think we need
Speaker 3: to unpack Gerramo and Katie's toolboxes just to start out.
Speaker 3: We can all just sort of, you know, get into
Speaker 3: this new process. And I had there are a lot
Speaker 3: of things that I bet all you don't know about
Speaker 3: Katie and Giam. I mean, they get interviewed a lot,
Speaker 3: and they're fabulous, and they're famous actors, and they have
Speaker 3: the Instagrammy and they put their faces and stuff on
Speaker 3: and it's super cool. And then is Instagrammy's Instagrammy? And
Speaker 3: I say that because I'm a Grammy. I'm not really,
Speaker 3: I've no children, but are so nice? So hot? Is
Speaker 3: a Grammy you are? But we thought it'd be really
Speaker 3: fun to actually do a little bit digg and just
Speaker 3: have a chat about how the hell these two big
Speaker 3: buckets of endless talent started talenting their ways across the world,
Speaker 3: and how do you start and do and survive and
Speaker 3: thrive in this business? Because I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I couldn't do it. I was kind of a shitty
Speaker 3: comedian and thank god I.
Speaker 1: Found I'd doubt that.
Speaker 3: I doubt it. Oh there's evidence to prove it.
Speaker 1: You're one of the funniest people I've ever met, Betsy.
Speaker 1: You're the wiest. You crack me up every time.
Speaker 2: But I think you bring up a good point, Betsy,
Speaker 2: which is everybody in this industry that we've ever met,
Speaker 2: And like g was saying, how whol people are who
Speaker 2: do so many different jobs to make shows and make
Speaker 2: Hollywood happen, and it is such a non traditional life,
Speaker 2: and no one has a linear straight line to get there,
Speaker 2: you know, everyone's way, Like Betsy is one of the
Speaker 2: most prolific, respected and highly accomplished producers in the business.
Speaker 2: And the way that you got here is insane, and
Speaker 2: the way that we all got here is crazy. And
Speaker 2: I feel like this new podcast AEPS we're putting out
Speaker 2: are all about cool jobs in this industry and how
Speaker 2: the fuck did people.
Speaker 3: Get there exactly, And I think that's incredibly well put.
Speaker 3: I would like to do a throwback to the old
Speaker 3: days when I did this, and I want to tell
Speaker 3: people what you are wearing so that they can picture
Speaker 3: what we're doing because we're in a split screen, because
Speaker 3: we are doing this remotely, which is really annoying because
Speaker 3: I love being the same room with people, But like whatever.
Speaker 3: So Gierman is wearing a fetching black T shirt with
Speaker 3: a big red heart on it, which is sort of
Speaker 3: a red heart with gunshots.
Speaker 1: No no, no gunshots. It says breaker.
Speaker 3: I can't read it because you're a tiny bit blurry.
Speaker 2: But why does he say breaker.
Speaker 1: Because it's heartbreaker?
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm the one who thought his gunshots. Okay.
Speaker 3: So he's wearing this incredibly cool T shirt which I
Speaker 3: totally misidentified with my blurry eyeballs. Katie y'all, Katie has
Speaker 3: accessorized for this podcast. I did a gorgeous necklace which
Speaker 3: surprisingly has a ch on it from assuming.
Speaker 2: Shocker Katie Katie.
Speaker 3: She's wearing some baller glasses frames which make her look
Speaker 3: like super powerful and maybe just a little bit like oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know, like Margot, Robbie and once upon a
Speaker 3: time in.
Speaker 2: A ship on these glasses for everyone listening, I love glasses.
Speaker 2: I'm so jealous of Betsy Beers and.
Speaker 3: Does because I need them cool cool glasses.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't need glasses. I have twenty ten vision. I
Speaker 2: could be a fighter pilot. People a fighter pilot. I
Speaker 2: get tested every year. Nope, eyes are still fine. Really,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, but I buy fake glasses. I put first
Speaker 2: of all, glasses are the best accessory. Like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: you look immediately more fashionable.
Speaker 3: Okay, And hey, can I tell you what they do
Speaker 3: about the eyebags, because let me just say, when you
Speaker 3: have the eyebags, just get a big fucking frame. Stick
Speaker 3: them on your face.
Speaker 1: It's great, Uh, covers it all up. But also, Katie,
Speaker 1: you're around around I'm not going to say your age,
Speaker 1: but you're around the time when I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can't quite read that print.
Speaker 2: It's starting, it's starting, might be coming at night. Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm turning forty one at the time of this recording tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Actually no, no, turn forty wonderful And maybe I'm going
Speaker 2: to go to that eye doctor. And this is my
Speaker 2: whole cute like, ooh, aren't I so cute? My eyes
Speaker 2: are perfect and eyes are going to be like he's
Speaker 2: gonna be like, you're a danger on the road at night.
Speaker 2: It's time to get some real lenses up in those glasses.
Speaker 2: We'll see you eyes. I'll keep you posting.
Speaker 3: That's the sort of thing you get for your birthday. Now,
Speaker 3: speaking of your birthday, Katie Lows, where were you born?
Speaker 2: Look at that pivot. This queen is the queen of pivots,
Speaker 2: which is what we're doing on this podcast.
Speaker 3: That's right, we're pivoting.
Speaker 2: I was born in Queens, New York, Oh, Zone Park,
Speaker 2: and my mother talks.
Speaker 3: Like this, and really she really talks like this.
Speaker 2: Oh, She's like, unbelievable. You're from fucking New York too,
Speaker 2: aren't you know?
Speaker 3: You're island in Long Island, which is very, very different.
Speaker 3: But I didn't grow up at a place with that.
Speaker 2: Every very well. I moved to Long Island, so it
Speaker 2: went there too.
Speaker 1: To specifically wear Katie to Port Washington right.
Speaker 2: Or Washington Long Island, which is Betsy Beers.
Speaker 3: I lived in Huntington call Spring Harbor, Oyster Bay area,
Speaker 3: where we worked very hard not to have accents of
Speaker 3: any sorts so we could be as bland as possible,
Speaker 3: so I could develop an accent really fast to distinguish
Speaker 3: myself from the assholes with whom I grew up. No offense.
Speaker 3: If anybody's listening to me, you're sure you're great now
Speaker 3: from Oystervey, So you were How long did you live there?
Speaker 3: As a tiny little tot.
Speaker 2: I grew up in Ozone Park till I was about
Speaker 2: seven or eight. My dad's a fashion photographer, which was
Speaker 2: very cool. I nice, you know, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: of course, when people think fashion photographer, they think Vogue
Speaker 2: or they think something you know, fancy. But he was
Speaker 2: a male order catalog photographer, which in the eighties and
Speaker 2: nineties and two thousands before everything went digital, this was huge.
Speaker 2: This was how people shocked. The Llban catalog came, the
Speaker 2: Blair catalogs came. Yes, all of these catalogs, that's how
Speaker 2: people bought their clothes. And my dad was slammed busy.
Speaker 2: But growing up it was always very cool to have
Speaker 2: a parent who was an artist, a free lance artist.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: My dad is like an actor. He's like a gig person.
Speaker 2: It's like he went from magazine to magazine and not
Speaker 2: doing the vogues or the oscar winning like he was
Speaker 2: doing the stuff that put the food on the table
Speaker 2: and with security and like we had great years and
Speaker 2: we had very lean years, and I got to see
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. And my dad always said, if
Speaker 2: you can make my hobby was always photography, And if
Speaker 2: you can make your hobby your job, you have you
Speaker 2: stand a chance of being happy.
Speaker 1: That's that's so great.
Speaker 2: So he was always very supportive of acting until I
Speaker 2: was twelve and I begged for an agent.
Speaker 1: Wait did he ever? Did he ever photograph you, Katie?
Speaker 3: For any to ask you that? Did you model for
Speaker 3: the cattle Hucks?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Well, remember when starter jackets were in?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: No, what are like big puffy, disgusting jackets have like
Speaker 2: the dolphins, Miami Dolphins like my jackets?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Whatever, So he rented out all of Metz Stadium for
Speaker 2: that photo shoot, and he thought it would be so
Speaker 2: fun if I like camee. But and so I did
Speaker 2: do some pictures, but guys, I am not model material.
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not, And that's fine. But he knew
Speaker 2: a lot of models who were also actors. And so
Speaker 2: when I begged at twelve for an agent and to
Speaker 2: do it professionally, my dad was like, absolutely fucking not.
Speaker 2: He was like, no fucking way. He was like really, yeah,
Speaker 2: he just was around a lot of young girls who
Speaker 2: were doing this and he just was like, your mother
Speaker 2: is not driving you and your little brother around to auditions,
Speaker 2: You're going to school, you're focusing on school. You're gonna
Speaker 2: be with the family if you want a major in it.
Speaker 2: I think he was loving enough to even support that.
Speaker 2: I mean, which is crazy, but he really was like,
Speaker 2: do community theater, do the high school plays, do dance
Speaker 2: class like I will support you through and through because
Speaker 2: it's just all I ever wanted to do. I was
Speaker 2: one of those fucking annoying children that was making everybody
Speaker 2: watch me perform at all times.
Speaker 1: I am so sorry, but that's great advice that he
Speaker 1: gave you, Katie, right because that pushback, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm the same way like nobody. My parents could have
Speaker 1: been like you're not doing you're not acting. Ever, everybody
Speaker 1: could have turned me down, and I knew in my
Speaker 1: heart that I was going to do it no matter what. Same,
Speaker 1: So it was great advice because he was probably like,
Speaker 1: let me make sure that she really really wants to
Speaker 1: go into this profession. And you did and you continued
Speaker 1: and you did it.
Speaker 3: First of all, you were born I know the answer
Speaker 3: to this, but go ahead and tell the listeners.
Speaker 1: I was born in Washington Heights in Manhattan, in New
Speaker 1: York City, so you.
Speaker 3: Can see we're all sort of like New York based,
Speaker 3: which is great. And when did you know, When did
Speaker 3: you first kind of get the inkling that maybe this
Speaker 3: is what you wanted to do.
Speaker 1: I remember the exact moment, and oh wow. I was
Speaker 1: in high school. I was a sophomore in high school.
Speaker 1: So I was about seventeen, and my two best friends
Speaker 1: were going to be part of the Talent Show and
Speaker 1: they were doing the Beastie Boys and one of the
Speaker 1: guys that was playing Mike D, one of the beast Boys,
Speaker 1: dropped out. And till this point, I never thought about acting.
Speaker 1: I didn't care. I didn't even think about it. It
Speaker 1: was an interested in it. And I was like, and
Speaker 1: they asked me, will you be Mike D? You know,
Speaker 1: will you join us for the Talent Show. It was like,
Speaker 1: in two weeks.
Speaker 3: Awak something we all want to hear at some point
Speaker 3: in our lives. We all want to be asked to
Speaker 3: be Mike D. Exactly, go ahead.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, yeah, sure, and then you know,
Speaker 1: the minute I hit that stage on that first before
Speaker 1: we had like two performances like a Thursday and a
Speaker 1: Friday night. I knew instantly that this is where I
Speaker 1: wanted to be and this is what I wanted to do. Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, was it the crowd? Like the crowd roaring like
Speaker 2: in your head? Was it like you felt good being
Speaker 2: somebody else or you felt good because everybody was watching,
Speaker 2: or like what.
Speaker 1: Was I think it was a I think it was
Speaker 1: a combination of all of that. Sometimes I think back
Speaker 1: in it's it makes me a little sad because in height,
Speaker 1: I had a really tough time in high school because
Speaker 1: I was bullied a lot and all that shit. And
Speaker 1: when I was on I remember being on stage all
Speaker 1: those people that bullied me were cheering and jumping up
Speaker 1: and down and clapping. So I associated being on stage
Speaker 1: and performing with people liking me and not fucking with
Speaker 1: me anymore. So I think that's what drew me into
Speaker 1: it immediately, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And did you find as soon as you got
Speaker 3: off stage that people started to treat you differently?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely. They were like, oh shit, you were so
Speaker 1: good man, And I was like you just you know,
Speaker 1: threw me down the fucking stairs and now you're like, yo,
Speaker 1: that was so good man.
Speaker 2: Oh I bet they just want to be friends with
Speaker 2: you now and smoke a joint. I bet they regret
Speaker 2: that anyway.
Speaker 3: Right exactly. Wow, See that's crazy. So Katie, from the
Speaker 3: very beginning you always kind of knew it, but Geirmo,
Speaker 3: it was like a lightning bolt for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then of course listen that's what That's what
Speaker 1: sort of lit me up. And I thought, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is you know, everybody likes me, and this felt
Speaker 1: really good. But then, of course, with time I fell
Speaker 1: in love with acting and performing in the craft and
Speaker 1: all of it. So it wasn't just just that sort
Speaker 1: of you know, superficial if you will, feeling of like, oh,
Speaker 1: people like me. I grew to then fall in love
Speaker 1: with acting, So that felt really good.
Speaker 3: Now did you go to school? Did you simply act
Speaker 3: in plays and kind of do stuff locally or did
Speaker 3: you go someplace and kind of make a big effort
Speaker 3: and go train.
Speaker 1: You know what? I didn't. I remember like maybe a
Speaker 1: month after that that BC Boy performance, I started I
Speaker 1: started researching, and I found out about Backstage, which was
Speaker 1: a newspaper that we put about you know, auditions and
Speaker 1: open cars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a number put on me. It was
Speaker 2: like chorus line, I'm like dancing, and they're like, next,
Speaker 2: get the fuck out of there.
Speaker 1: Horrible.
Speaker 3: Also, I remember we all found our resume photos, like
Speaker 3: the photographers always advertised in backstage, and that's how you
Speaker 3: found the incredibly shitty photographer who took your first hyper
Speaker 3: creepy photo. And maybe, if you're lucky, you get like
Speaker 3: a triptych and it would be you as a wacky
Speaker 3: housewife for maybe playing a dentist, just as a policeman,
Speaker 3: and it's like, it's it's great. Actually, I somewhere on
Speaker 3: my Instagram I have because I've only posted like five times,
Speaker 3: but somewhere on my Instagram, I have one of my
Speaker 3: first likedhots headshots. All there was a few years ago.
Speaker 3: We all put our headshots up. It's actually I should
Speaker 3: dig it up and you should do it too, because.
Speaker 2: My dad took my first one. I have to from college.
Speaker 2: It's a night at the time of the airing of
Speaker 2: this podcast, we will release some of our first headshots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no exactly, but it's it is that weird thing.
Speaker 3: So you both did a backstage was just like torture
Speaker 3: on paper. You both did the sort of backstage thing Katie,
Speaker 3: you train, did you go to You went to school
Speaker 3: and did all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: The same conversation literally like like I came out, you know,
Speaker 2: dancing and singing and acting. Oh God, I think that
Speaker 2: would annoy me so bad if that was either of
Speaker 2: my kids. Right now, I'm so sorry to my parents.
Speaker 2: But the same conversation where I said to my dad, like,
Speaker 2: I want an agent. I was in an acting class
Speaker 2: when I was twelve. My mom found me, like some
Speaker 2: local thing in Long Island, and I would go and
Speaker 2: I did this, and that's when I was like, I
Speaker 2: want I did and my dad said no. And in
Speaker 2: that same conversation, I said, fine, I'm going to college
Speaker 2: and I'm going to study acting, and I'm living in
Speaker 2: New York City for the rest of my life. And
Speaker 2: I'm going to NYU and I'm only doing theater and
Speaker 2: I'm never going to learn how to drive because I'm
Speaker 2: just taking to taking the subway forever. Yes, and I'm
Speaker 2: only going to speak in a theater voice for the
Speaker 2: rest of time. Darling.
Speaker 1: Wait, you weren't even in high school yet yet.
Speaker 2: I was thirteen. I was like about to be in
Speaker 2: high school. Wow, that was young for my grade. But
Speaker 2: so at you knew, Yes, I knew, and I remember
Speaker 2: my parents. I would figure it out, I would find it.
Speaker 2: I remember taking the Long Island Railroad train by myself
Speaker 2: to look at Tisch School the Arts and go to
Speaker 2: a visiting day and I sat there in the glee
Speaker 2: club saying walk in on broken Glass, and I was like,
Speaker 2: this is my school. This is my school. This is
Speaker 2: my school. This is my school. But I had to go,
Speaker 2: and so I applied early decision and I think I
Speaker 2: got in and I this was that cheesy theater college
Speaker 2: kid theater major at tishchool Yards. But then my parents
Speaker 2: it all took a hard left turn because little Katie
Speaker 2: musical theater smiling taping across the stage turned two experimental
Speaker 2: nudity nasturbatory dar everybody's naked, everybody's jerking off, everybody's calling
Speaker 2: at art for four years and my parents would come
Speaker 2: to every show because that's you're so wildly supportive and
Speaker 2: would be like what the fuck was that? Like what
Speaker 2: like in these small thirty seat houses and my boobs
Speaker 2: are out and like my dad, you know, and I'm
Speaker 2: all making a stand like well you have to come,
Speaker 2: like this is my art and they're like, well, we're
Speaker 2: not bringing your fourteen year old brother, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: yes you are. If you love me at all, you
Speaker 2: will love the plays I'm making, which, by the way,
Speaker 2: I just want to say, like, yes, the art was trash. Okay,
Speaker 2: it was not good.
Speaker 3: It wasn't well, I don't know, I don't know that
Speaker 3: that's a great I don't.
Speaker 2: Know that said a lot of the people, like I
Speaker 2: wouldn't say. I mean, yes, I think the training was great,
Speaker 2: but really what NYU gave me was an amazing group
Speaker 2: of people who shockingly I keep running into them on
Speaker 2: the picket lines because it's so amazing. But so many
Speaker 2: of them actually ended up getting hired and actually getting
Speaker 2: paid to act or direct or write or produce, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And so for that, even though
Speaker 2: we made this craziest, stupidest, most experimental I mean, body
Speaker 2: lice broke out in the experimental theater wing. That's how
Speaker 2: disgusting we were.
Speaker 3: Rolling around were that is that is that's like that
Speaker 3: should be a whole class in itself. It's like body
Speaker 3: Light Theater two o five.
Speaker 1: That's right, how to get rid of it?
Speaker 2: We will be back with more after the break.
Speaker 3: So wait now, gearmo, so take me back. So she's
Speaker 3: her tits are.
Speaker 1: Hanging out in a black box theater.
Speaker 3: In a black box theater, she's doing newer renditions of
Speaker 3: Sylvia Plath and really really wishes that she was, you know,
Speaker 3: in the performing garage. So that's where Katie is with
Speaker 3: Body Lice, with Body Look most importantly starring the Body
Speaker 3: Lice co starring Katie. So yeah heremo, so then, so
Speaker 3: Katie's like doing doing all that stuff, you find yourself,
Speaker 3: you start to audition for things. How quickly did you
Speaker 3: actually start to work? And my memory, knowing a little
Speaker 3: bit about your family is they were not as loosey
Speaker 3: goosey as Katie's family in terms of a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3: But they were sort of vaguely supportive in a benign
Speaker 3: kind of way, weren't they.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they were listen. So I started I started
Speaker 1: buying backstage, and I started freaking going up even for
Speaker 1: background work like I was applying for. Like I did
Speaker 1: a ton of extra work, which I'm so glad I
Speaker 1: did that because I feel like I super like totally
Speaker 1: paid my dues and and like Katie was saying earlier,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to act I wanted to be around actors.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be around directors. I wanted to be
Speaker 1: around that world. So I just kept finding a way
Speaker 1: to be around that. And a lot of it was
Speaker 1: student films. I did a million student films for and
Speaker 1: Why You? Oh my god, I did so many NYU
Speaker 1: student films and School of Visual Arts, and and then
Speaker 1: I did I started doing a ton of children's theater
Speaker 1: all through backstage. I did children's theater for like two years,
Speaker 1: and I would get paid twenty bucks a performance, and
Speaker 1: we would do all the you know, children's fairy tales,
Speaker 1: like the Three Little Pigs and a Little Red Riding Hood.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: God, I did not know that.
Speaker 3: That's why this is so good, right, So Caramo, what
Speaker 3: did you play in the Three Little Pigs?
Speaker 1: I was the wolf. I'm the one that blew the
Speaker 1: house down.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 3: You're the star of the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have that a performance on VHS from me
Speaker 1: playing the wolf.
Speaker 3: Can you believe I? If I don't get to see that,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna come over and punch you in the face.
Speaker 2: Same I will be right behind you to kick you
Speaker 2: in the I know.
Speaker 1: I got to get my parents to transfer it over
Speaker 1: to you know whatever video files.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 1: I remember playing the wolf and then when it came
Speaker 1: to the part where the wolf blows the house down,
Speaker 1: I would get all the kids up out of their
Speaker 1: seats in the theater to help me blow the house down.
Speaker 1: And that was the most exciting part, and the little
Speaker 1: kids would love it so much. So we were like
Speaker 1: a repertory company. It was called a playhouse something playhouse.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't the courtyard playhouse that's what
Speaker 1: it was called. Oh so yeah. I worked there for
Speaker 1: like two three years doing doing shows and we would
Speaker 1: get to pay like twenty bucks a performance or something
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: It was basically yeah, yeah for tokens together. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then and then, you know, moving forward a little
Speaker 1: bit or fast forwarding a little bit, I saw an
Speaker 1: ad for a theater company called Intar Lab, and I
Speaker 1: went an auditioned and it was with Gary Perez and
Speaker 1: John Ortiz and Daphne were being Vega lies. So we
Speaker 1: they started this theater company for latinos. So I began
Speaker 1: sort of my theater of training with all of those guys,
Speaker 1: and we would go into a theater that wasn't used
Speaker 1: anymore on fifty third between like tenth and eleven, and
Speaker 1: they would give us that space and let us just
Speaker 1: do our thing, and we would you know, read scenes
Speaker 1: and improv. I remember one time we dressed it was
Speaker 1: like kabooky night and they were like, just grab whatever
Speaker 1: shit you want and make up in costumes and come
Speaker 1: on stage and doing a performance. It was stuff like.
Speaker 3: That and unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then into our Lab obviously became
Speaker 1: Labyrinth Theater Company. Yeah, with philippsymore Haw.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. For anybody, any of the listeners who aren't
Speaker 3: familiar with that, it's one of the premiere theater companies
Speaker 3: in New York. And the fact that we're hearing about
Speaker 3: the roots of this is insane because I never knew
Speaker 3: any of that. That's amazing. No, I never knew anything.
Speaker 3: I never knew that you worked with this theater company,
Speaker 3: or if I did, I have the ausis and I
Speaker 3: forgot the.
Speaker 2: Alsies in the instagram is I'm dead.
Speaker 1: My first play was called rough House, and we did it.
Speaker 1: You know, it was the first It was the first
Speaker 1: intar lab production and John Ortiz played my brother and okay,
Speaker 1: so so much.
Speaker 3: Wait a second, what was what was rough House about?
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 3: Maybe Katie could have been in it from the sound
Speaker 3: she could have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a dysfunctional family who there was an
Speaker 1: alcoholic sister who you know ends up dying in a
Speaker 1: in a car crash because she was drunk driving. And
Speaker 1: it was just it was a really well written like
Speaker 1: dysfunctional family, uh drama.
Speaker 3: It was your long day's journey in tonight exactly, except
Speaker 3: not as long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also paint this picture. I love this, g
Speaker 2: tell Betsy because I love the story so much on
Speaker 2: our listeners. Like the crew that you were running and
Speaker 2: rolling around with in the theater at this time, like
Speaker 2: you got invited because you were. Daphne Rubin Vego was
Speaker 2: in there, yes to like a first reading in an
Speaker 2: apartment with.
Speaker 1: Phanie were in Vega. Yeah, they were doing Rent is
Speaker 1: she I remember her coming into the.
Speaker 2: Theater kidding like the first fucking.
Speaker 1: Act one of those nights, and and Daphne was handing out.
Speaker 1: Daphanie was handing out or not handing out, she was
Speaker 1: giving us, you know, these little pamphlets saying, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: doing this new show called Rent. And yeah, we were
Speaker 1: there from the very beginning of that, and they were,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think they really knew. Obviously they
Speaker 1: didn't know what it was going to turn into. But
Speaker 1: I think they started it at p S one twenty
Speaker 1: two is where they first started performing, and then it
Speaker 1: got picked up from there. But yeah, I remember Daphanie
Speaker 1: being super excited and all of us checking it out,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, next thing we knew
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 3: You know, it was amazing.
Speaker 2: Was John and Larson in the room when you were there?
Speaker 1: I don't remember, I don't think so, I don't remember. Yes,
Speaker 1: he must have been.
Speaker 3: He must have been if you were doing readings and
Speaker 3: workshopping and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And then I all to remember,
Speaker 1: like Sam Rockwell being in the you know, in these
Speaker 1: in these uh these nights with us at the theater,
Speaker 1: and and you know, all of us were were nobody's
Speaker 1: We just and we all had that that love for
Speaker 1: acting though, and we we were so filled with passion
Speaker 1: and we were hungry to just act and that felt
Speaker 1: so good. And oftentimes I don't know about you, Katie,
Speaker 1: but we do. You know, then you years later you
Speaker 1: started doing work and and you it's nice to sort
Speaker 1: of think back on those times and remember how much
Speaker 1: you love acting, and and why you really started doing it,
Speaker 1: and and and whenever I think about those times, it
Speaker 1: brings me back and it reminds me again of why
Speaker 1: I love acting so much and how lucky I am
Speaker 1: that I was able to have all those experiences and stuff.
Speaker 1: And then and and then at that at that play
Speaker 1: that I did, rough House, an agent saw me in
Speaker 1: that play and signed me. And that's when I got
Speaker 1: my first, uh my first agent. So an agent came
Speaker 1: to see rough House. They were like John Ortiz's agent.
Speaker 1: I think it was a Lucy Kroll agency.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lucy Crol. Remember Lucy Croll. Yep, she wouldn't touch me.
Speaker 1: She wouldn't touch me.
Speaker 3: With the ten foot fucking poll people. And it turns
Speaker 3: up Lucy Kroll was smarter than we thought.
Speaker 1: Piermo Yes, no, anyway, So then it all started started
Speaker 1: working from there.
Speaker 3: Did you another just like question? And then I've got
Speaker 3: a follow up question because that's what I do. All
Speaker 3: I do is just have so many things I want
Speaker 3: to ask you. Okay, so did y'all do commercials at
Speaker 3: this point? Or did you audition for commercials? Did you
Speaker 3: get them? Did you not get them? Because that was
Speaker 3: when I was living in New York, and I was
Speaker 3: doing bad theater and comedy. The bread and butter was commercials,
Speaker 3: and I always had a I got like one or two,
Speaker 3: but I was kind of sucky at it. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: was like I couldn't hold a baby. There were all
Speaker 3: these problems. And by the way, still true, dear listener.
Speaker 3: But so tell me a little bit about that, because
Speaker 3: when you're in New York, that's definitely something. Especially in
Speaker 3: those days, it became oh yeah, it just became a thing.
Speaker 3: Was always sort of write a passage. Germo. Did you
Speaker 3: do many commercials.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I auditioned for them a ton. I remember
Speaker 1: doing a bunch of music videos for no money. No,
Speaker 1: it's just crazy, like rap music videos.
Speaker 3: Music videos equals no money though. I mean, like, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know anybody who got paid sometimes, including directors,
Speaker 3: unlike music videos.
Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, but I did like one beer commercial.
Speaker 1: I did a Coca Cola commercial in Spanish. I got
Speaker 1: cast in a lot of commercials in Spanish because I'm
Speaker 1: fluent in Spanish, but you know, the regular run of
Speaker 1: the mill commercials, on just American commercials, I was never cast.
Speaker 1: I don't think I was wide enough.
Speaker 2: You know, oh my god at that age, well, and
Speaker 2: you know that was really I had a similar thing
Speaker 2: where like some really shady manager saw me in a
Speaker 2: show at NYU, like a maze stage, and he signed
Speaker 2: me and made and there was this like hefty contract
Speaker 2: and this guy was a real fucking shady shady mixed
Speaker 2: Shaderson and uh but you know he would get me
Speaker 2: some auditions for shady shit. And but then like he
Speaker 2: got me with a commercial agent and I did start
Speaker 2: going out in commercials and I actually did book like
Speaker 2: that's how I. I did, like got flown to Indianapolis
Speaker 2: and guys, I was the face of Steak in Shake
Speaker 2: for about a fifteen episode slot where I had to
Speaker 2: go for two weeks and I did like fifteen commercials
Speaker 2: in two weeks where I was a Steak and Shake
Speaker 2: waiter and I was really really great at the waiting
Speaker 2: tables part, bad at the acting in commercials part. And
Speaker 2: I just I remember feeling so terrible because they just
Speaker 2: made my lines less and less and less and less,
Speaker 2: like they started taking away more and more of my
Speaker 2: responsibility because they just weren't happy with what I was
Speaker 2: doing and it just felt terrible. But it was ten
Speaker 2: thousand dollars. It was non union, and that was like
Speaker 2: the most money fucking ever. And then I got my
Speaker 2: SAG card SAG after it was separate at the time,
Speaker 2: by booking a birth control commercial wow, for the birth
Speaker 2: control patch. See. I always book the jobs where you
Speaker 2: actually have to have the thing because it cuts out
Speaker 2: a lot of the competition. Like, if you're auditioning for
Speaker 2: a commercial that's about a birth control patch, technically you
Speaker 2: have to be somebody who uses that shit. And at
Speaker 2: the time I was actually using this fucking birth control patch.
Speaker 2: So that's how I got my SAG card, real fancy.
Speaker 2: And then similarly my first job, which I also beat
Speaker 2: out a lot of people who couldn't even get there
Speaker 2: because the line was, I don't eat fish the toxins
Speaker 2: while you're smoking a cigarette. And the joke is that
Speaker 2: you're inhaling a toxin, but you wouldn't eat a fish
Speaker 2: because of the toxins. And all the young girls didn't smoke,
Speaker 2: but I did.
Speaker 1: I'm a smoker bitch, like, I'll smoke this shit.
Speaker 2: Let's go go again. I only book the job when, like,
Speaker 2: for actual reasons, most of them have been cut out already.
Speaker 3: Unbelievable. So I so.
Speaker 2: Oh, but I do remember moving to LA and never
Speaker 2: booking a commercial again because it was so different.
Speaker 3: Yes, now, both of you, it would be curious to hear. So, Katie,
Speaker 3: obviously there came a point where you where you had
Speaker 3: to make money and you weren't making enough money acting
Speaker 3: and years of that. So tell us a little bit
Speaker 3: about what you did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, there's a reason a lot of
Speaker 2: actors wait tables or bartend, and it's because you can
Speaker 2: work at night and you can be in an audition
Speaker 2: class in the day or actually make it to auditions
Speaker 2: if you're lucky enough to have them. And so in
Speaker 2: New York the minute I graduated school, and it's incredible
Speaker 2: that I even made it that far with someone supporting me.
Speaker 2: My dad was like, I'm done. Like, here's the info
Speaker 2: for your health insurance, here's the info for your cell phone,
Speaker 2: here's what your rent costs, here's a metro card. Good luck.
Speaker 2: And so I started my first waiting tables gig in
Speaker 2: New York City was at bb King's Jazz and Blues
Speaker 2: Club and Times Square and it was a fucking nightmare. Wow,
Speaker 2: I had anxiety attacks nightly, and I actually had to
Speaker 2: leave because I had my first real anxiety attack when like,
Speaker 2: like there was a band playing. You have tables of
Speaker 2: hundreds of people. You can't hear anything because it's a
Speaker 2: live music show, and you're screaming and running around and
Speaker 2: it was horrible. And then I started waiting tables at
Speaker 2: a much better, like theater restaurant that had a that
Speaker 2: was in the theater district, so you would get slammed
Speaker 2: from five to seven forty five and then everybody was gone.
Speaker 2: It was great, little privately owned Italian joint. Shout out
Speaker 2: Cafe Cello fifty third and eighth Avenue for anyone who's
Speaker 2: ever been there. It was right around the corner from
Speaker 2: the Letterman Show. And I was really good at waiting
Speaker 2: tables once I got the hang of it. I was
Speaker 2: never cool enough to I filled in for bartenders here
Speaker 2: and there, but I was never cool enough. I'm such
Speaker 2: a waitress and not a bartender. I don't know what
Speaker 2: that means, but that was who I was.
Speaker 1: Oh, I bet people loved you though. You're so great
Speaker 1: with people, You're so personable. Thanks.
Speaker 2: When I got the hint to move out, like oh shit,
Speaker 2: you know, in New York. I got my equity card,
Speaker 2: I got my sad card. I'm working, but I cannot
Speaker 2: get ahead. I can't make a savings. This is so
Speaker 2: fucking hard. Maybe if I try a late it'll be different. Nope.
Speaker 2: Waited tables in La Forever too. Shout out to Ammo
Speaker 2: on Highland just north of Santa Monica. It was a big.
Speaker 3: Power, gigantic power place. And the irony is there is
Speaker 3: a very large likelihood because I used to go there
Speaker 3: every week. There's a very large likelihood that at some
Speaker 3: point before I knew Katie Lowe's she waited on me.
Speaker 2: Oh, I waited on you. I fucking waited on everybody.
Speaker 3: I know so much to recreate that we do after
Speaker 3: we watch Skirimo's tape of Like the Wolf, I think
Speaker 3: we got a lot of catching up to do on this.
Speaker 2: I waited on everyone. You fucking name it justin Timberlake,
Speaker 2: Orlando Bluem, Mick Jagger, Both Cohen, Dan Jinks, Ryan Murphy,
Speaker 2: every fucking day Table seventeen. Don't fuck with him not
Speaker 2: sitting at table seventeen. He will ream you out. It
Speaker 2: will be back, oh, Ava Mendez, Ryan Gosling, Jake Jill
Speaker 2: and Halls.
Speaker 3: Oh s, no, wonder was so hard for me to
Speaker 3: get a table. See that's that makes total sense because,
Speaker 3: like I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: For it was Ryan Murphy, Katie Holmes, Kirsten Duns, everybody.
Speaker 2: I mean, our regulars were so crazy who And it
Speaker 2: was really it was kind of fun because it was
Speaker 2: so Hollywood and I was such a New Yorker and
Speaker 2: I really hadn't been around a lot of stalls.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And yeah, and it was really it was an amazing
Speaker 2: community because all my friends guess how I got the job.
Speaker 2: The friend from NYU all moved out here and we're
Speaker 2: working an AMMO before me and got.
Speaker 3: My I'm telling you this is the way this stuff works. Now.
Speaker 3: At any point at that point did you feel like
Speaker 3: quitting or giving up or was there any a point
Speaker 3: where you all you ever just sort of went, yeah,
Speaker 3: I've got a pivot, Like I've got a pivot.
Speaker 2: No, I know, in my gut, I knew I was
Speaker 2: never gonna quit, but I sure as fuck cried a lot,
Speaker 2: Like I just cried, Like again, I think I had
Speaker 2: had this sort of I had had this sort of
Speaker 2: sparkly uh childhood of acting, meaning like, you know, I
Speaker 2: was the lead in the plays and I always got
Speaker 2: the part I wanted. And so as soon as I realized,
Speaker 2: oh shit, this is really hard. I'm twenty one years old.
Speaker 2: I can't book a job to save my life. Nobody cares.
Speaker 2: I'm one in a billion. Everybody's like me. I'm literally
Speaker 2: sitting in rooms where all the girls look like me,
Speaker 2: and all the girls are good, and I don't know
Speaker 2: why someone would take a chance on me. And I
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna be waiting tables till the end of time,
Speaker 2: and I can't. Every month when the first comes around,
Speaker 2: I'm back at zero, Like I only ever made enough
Speaker 2: to just just.
Speaker 1: To pay the rent to get food, Yeah.
Speaker 2: One hundred and fifty dollars phone bill. I was on
Speaker 2: the lowest health insurant, you know all that shit. So
Speaker 2: it was just such a grind. And guys, I wasn't
Speaker 2: only waiting tables. I was waiting tables at night running
Speaker 2: to This was at a time when the business was
Speaker 2: very different. I would have like a million auditions and
Speaker 2: not get them. But I would also be like side hustling,
Speaker 2: like babysitting for this family over here to make a
Speaker 2: few extra bucks, or like, oh, Disney is asking you
Speaker 2: to come in and do a few like scratch voices
Speaker 2: for one hundred dollars for six hours of work, and
Speaker 2: then you're going to start a theater company with your
Speaker 2: friends because it's the only thing that gives you any
Speaker 2: sort of purpose, or like make sure your artistic soul
Speaker 2: isn't dying, you know, in the busser line to clean
Speaker 2: the dishes. But you know, I think that everyone. I
Speaker 2: wish it was mandatory that everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, work to go through that. Hell yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3: Wait, Garamo, did you wait on tables too? Or did
Speaker 3: you do something else?
Speaker 1: I didn't? I didn't, I did. I did so many
Speaker 1: different things. I worked at the Javit Center, at the
Speaker 1: concession stand.
Speaker 2: Listen, that's the service industry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure is.
Speaker 1: I had a crazy job which I loved, where I
Speaker 1: would hold a box full of cassette tapes for this
Speaker 1: musician that would play the guitar in the subway, so
Speaker 1: we would go. I would meet him at like thirty
Speaker 1: four Street in Pestation or forty second Street in Times Square.
Speaker 1: He would call me and tell me where to meet him,
Speaker 1: and then I would just sell his tapes and then
Speaker 1: he would give me out of it was like forty bucks
Speaker 1: he would give me for the night. But I did
Speaker 1: that for a while and I was I loved doing that.
Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of time in the subway
Speaker 1: with this guy playing his guitar and selling his tapes.
Speaker 2: Do you remember his name?
Speaker 1: I don't. I wish I did.
Speaker 2: It's the kind of music. What was the music it was?
Speaker 1: It was kind of folky, but it was all original stuff.
Speaker 1: It was. He had really long hair, long black hair.
Speaker 1: He was into it though, And I sold a lot
Speaker 1: of tapes, like people bought his son.
Speaker 3: For a second. How did you? How did you meet?
Speaker 3: Like like this guy who sang folky stuff.
Speaker 1: A friend of mine had that job before me, and
Speaker 1: he was moving on and he was like, yermo, do
Speaker 1: you want to do this job? And I was like yep,
Speaker 1: So he passed along the job. My friend Robbie masonutt
Speaker 1: I still remember his name. He's great. He's a director
Speaker 1: now and he's he's created a lot of great theater.
Speaker 1: And then I had a job at a at a
Speaker 1: photo stock agency called Retina, where I would I would
Speaker 1: file photos, slides and eight x ten photos of celebrities
Speaker 1: and I did that for a bunch of years, and
Speaker 1: and you know, so paparazzi photographers would come into the
Speaker 1: office and sort out all their material and then I
Speaker 1: would have to file it.
Speaker 2: And it's the weirdest job I've ever heard my life. Hours.
Speaker 2: Was it like nine to five?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like nine to five, yep. And I
Speaker 1: would be there filing pictures of celebrities all day long,
Speaker 1: and of course I would get to see, you know,
Speaker 1: Madonna's file. I would get to see all the new
Speaker 1: Madonna paparazzi photos that would come in. And they all
Speaker 1: knew I was a big Madonna fan, so they would
Speaker 1: be like, looky Emma, we just shot Madonna and this
Speaker 1: is unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Guys.
Speaker 3: Now, did you did you ever get to a point
Speaker 3: through all this where you actually considered quitting?
Speaker 1: You know what? No, Just like Katie, I knew in
Speaker 1: my heart that I was never going to quit. They
Speaker 1: were really hard times, and I cried too, But even
Speaker 1: with all the rejection and all the insecurity that I had,
Speaker 1: I wish I had the freaking courage and the strength
Speaker 1: I had during that time, because nothing was going to
Speaker 1: take me down. I never had one ink of a
Speaker 1: doubt that I was not going to make it.
Speaker 2: You gotta want it so bad.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine?
Speaker 2: I try to tell people, I'm like, how hard it
Speaker 2: is to get a job, right, like, and how much
Speaker 2: you put on the line of like insecurity, and you know,
Speaker 2: and most people probably interview for X amount of jobs
Speaker 2: in their lifetime. What what twenty thirty, I don't know something
Speaker 2: like that. Actors are doing that hundreds. I mean, if
Speaker 2: you're lucky, en, if you're really in the game and
Speaker 2: you're auditioning a lot, I mean, you're getting opportunity and
Speaker 2: told no hundreds and thousands of times a year, and
Speaker 2: some of them you get really close, some of them
Speaker 2: you're some of them you really want, like you are
Speaker 2: like like, I mean, that's what I mean. So you're
Speaker 2: you're it's such a hard career and that your heart
Speaker 2: broke in a lot. You have to be kind of
Speaker 2: naively hopeful, like today is going to be different than
Speaker 2: the rest of this year where I haven't gotten shit,
Speaker 2: Like it's just like so crazy.
Speaker 1: But it would also like I don't know about you, Katie,
Speaker 1: but it would drive me even more when I got
Speaker 1: a rejection. When I get didn't get a job, I
Speaker 1: would be like, you know what, fuck this shit I'm getting?
Speaker 1: Then it would it would make me even more passionate
Speaker 1: for the work and to get that next job, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It made me stronger. And I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people, I think that's what. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of actors that that A are pursuing acting.
Speaker 1: I think that's what. That's when you you discover who
Speaker 1: who really wants it bad enough and who doesn't, because
Speaker 1: then there's that group of I have a lot of
Speaker 1: friends that were actors that were just like I just
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. It was too much, and they you know,
Speaker 1: they they fell away, and but then there were there
Speaker 1: were the group that continued on and most of them
Speaker 1: made it, you know.
Speaker 2: The perseverance man.
Speaker 3: All your stories are so interesting and inspiring because you
Speaker 3: all figured out a way to both stay yourselves and
Speaker 3: adapt to the marketplace. And part of the reason I'm
Speaker 3: asking all these questions is it's sort of like a
Speaker 3: lot of this has to do with constantly pivoting. It's
Speaker 3: like Katie goes to Los Angeles, it's totally different New York.
Speaker 3: So she constantly pivots in order to figure out a
Speaker 3: way both to fit in but remain the talented.
Speaker 2: If you remember, I stood on a fucking soapbox and said,
Speaker 2: I'm living in New York till the day I die,
Speaker 2: and I'm not even learning how to drive a car.
Speaker 2: I had to move to Los Angeles, in the hardest
Speaker 2: driving town of all fucking time, and I got my
Speaker 2: first car was from a company called rent Toreck, where.
Speaker 3: You were rand that could afford yes.
Speaker 2: Right, it was three hundred dollars a month for a
Speaker 2: fucking beater piece of shit. And I remember landing at Lax.
Speaker 2: I'd spent all my money on the ticket, getting my
Speaker 2: rent to wreck and driving on the ten in the
Speaker 2: right lane because I had driven like ten times. I mean,
Speaker 2: I got my license my mom forced me when I
Speaker 2: was eighteen, but I had never practiced, like I had
Speaker 2: never really spent a lot of time behind the wheel.
Speaker 2: I'd probably logged I don't know, twenty hours driving and
Speaker 2: then I'm on the fucking ten. Guys, not I got
Speaker 2: in so many car accidents when I'm moved out here,
Speaker 2: and thankfully not like scary big ones, just like dumb
Speaker 2: ones like I hit a parked car like stupid shit.
Speaker 3: But that is the best metaphor, by the way, that's
Speaker 3: the best metaphor. I didn't know how to drive, and
Speaker 3: I got in a car and I did it anyway, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: because that's what you all have to do, which is
Speaker 3: you're constantly and you're also you know, so part of
Speaker 3: this whole world, which most people know obviously is the audition,
Speaker 3: but you're constantly walking into different rooms and you're having
Speaker 3: to deal with how do I assess and adjust to
Speaker 3: this energy? All through this, like throughout all this for
Speaker 3: both of you, is there like like a person who
Speaker 3: you always sort of saw as, for lack of a
Speaker 3: better expression, your north star, like were there was there
Speaker 3: somebody or people who like you always felt like you
Speaker 3: did your best work for you, felt like they had
Speaker 3: your back, that also were your inspiration for things.
Speaker 1: I had a professor in college that the men I
Speaker 1: did any kind of work on the stage in the
Speaker 1: one sort of uh drama. There were like three drama courses.
Speaker 1: I went to Baroque College, which was not a theater
Speaker 1: college at all. It was a business school that Jlo
Speaker 1: went to. But of course, right, but of course I
Speaker 1: gravitated towards the theater department and did all the plays
Speaker 1: at the school. And but I had one professor, professor
Speaker 1: that believed in me more than I believed in myself.
Speaker 1: And she, you know, for the duration of me being
Speaker 1: in in in the school, and even after that, she
Speaker 1: she was always like, like you said, she was like
Speaker 1: my my guiding light, like my my my northern star.
Speaker 1: And she again, she just believed in me more than
Speaker 1: I believed in her. In every job I did, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it was theater or TV or film or whatever.
Speaker 1: I always thought of her. She died shortly after I
Speaker 1: graduated college, unfortunately from cancer. But she's always been in
Speaker 1: sort of my heart and in my head and I
Speaker 1: always I always always think of her all the time
Speaker 1: because she was just such a wonderful guiding light for me.
Speaker 3: And she's somebody you really did your best work for
Speaker 3: in a weird way, alive or even after she passed away,
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, she was still there voice in the
Speaker 3: back of your head going that was greater, you can
Speaker 3: do better, or so to this day, yeah it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's amazing.
Speaker 2: I had like for me. Again, I think I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's because of n YU or that I
Speaker 2: don't know, Like me and g together were just such
Speaker 2: and even how us three met, Like I'm such a
Speaker 2: community person, yep, but I do find such a sense
Speaker 2: of Oh I went to n Yu. Then this group
Speaker 2: of friends all worked at the same restaurant, and then
Speaker 2: this group of friends made a theater company, and then
Speaker 2: this group.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be one.
Speaker 2: This group is like this group. I'm thinking about them
Speaker 2: right now. I'm in an acting class. I'm never not
Speaker 2: an acting class. I fucking love acting class more than anything.
Speaker 2: And yes, our clothes are on and there's no longer
Speaker 2: body license.
Speaker 3: You could change that, you could change. You have that power, Katie.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I did hear that there is a life
Speaker 2: outbreak in the tkse uh the little kids classroom at
Speaker 2: my kids school. Okayidd get that I have to say,
Speaker 2: Like I get such strength from I've always been like
Speaker 2: a let's put up scenes with my friends, and they
Speaker 2: hold me to the highest accountability of what I can deliver.
Speaker 2: And I feel the same way with them, And and
Speaker 2: I get to do work there that no one that
Speaker 2: the professional world has never seen me do, Like I
Speaker 2: get to play part like Martha and who's afraid of
Speaker 2: Virginia Woolf? For right now, I'm working on Private Lives
Speaker 2: and Noel cow would play and we're talking like this
Speaker 2: and I'm wearing to slap of clothes. Who the fuck
Speaker 2: is going to let me do that and get paid
Speaker 2: for it? No one. So it's just I've always held
Speaker 2: myself to being around other actors who I think are
Speaker 2: awesome and they think I'm good, and I ask a
Speaker 2: lot of them and they ask a lot of me,
Speaker 2: and I just need that space constantly and always. And
Speaker 2: the only other person I'll say is Benny Boom, who
Speaker 2: was the manager at AMMO. If you're an actor and
Speaker 2: you're listening and you have to have a side hustle
Speaker 2: to pay your bills and all that, like if you
Speaker 2: actually have a boss who supports that you're doing it
Speaker 2: versus is angry at you for doing it, it is
Speaker 2: the key because I used to leave him high and dry,
Speaker 2: have to run to auditions and callbacks and stuff, And
Speaker 2: I would say to him, Benny, when I am here,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be the greatest waitress caterer you've ever seen.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's going to suck, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: be late because I'm going to be coming from the
Speaker 2: valley to a callback some show procedure not procedural. I
Speaker 2: will be coming back. And he would always say, kill it,
Speaker 2: break a leg. I got you, And then I would
Speaker 2: come back and he'd be like, howout the man? And
Speaker 2: I I love that guys. He's the manager at Jelena
Speaker 2: right now, which is a very restaurant in Venice. And
Speaker 2: if you ever see Benny More, to.
Speaker 3: Drop your name, baby, because let's go. I want it.
Speaker 2: He is the greatest human being and was and he
Speaker 2: believed in me, like he was like I knew you
Speaker 2: were going to make it because you worked so hard.
Speaker 2: And I worked so hard at that restaurant. Man, I
Speaker 2: did because he he deserved it. Like I was like,
Speaker 2: this is the best, dude. And I'm going to tell
Speaker 2: Jake Dyllenhall that he can have his alg apple lemon
Speaker 2: ginger juice without ice this morning, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: remake that latte because we didn't do a really good
Speaker 2: job and we fucked it up. We're like whatever it wants.
Speaker 1: Yes, you were fucking top notch, top drawer in that restaurant.
Speaker 3: See, but that is that's and it also just speaks
Speaker 3: to it. It seems like to sech a degree the
Speaker 3: importance of that kind of community and the importance of
Speaker 3: that connection. And look, it's why we're all doing this
Speaker 3: podcast is because we all are unified by this incredible
Speaker 3: love and certainly my insane respect for what you all do,
Speaker 3: obviously because I know how hard it is. And I
Speaker 3: also I mean, it's the things that people don't realize
Speaker 3: when you walk into a room in your auditioning and
Speaker 3: people aren't even looking at you, they're talking on their
Speaker 3: phone there. I mean, things that I would not believe
Speaker 3: would have ever happened, you live through on a regular basis.
Speaker 3: And that so the people who are around you, who
Speaker 3: support you, who believe on you, believe on you. That
Speaker 3: would be a really dangerous position. I want to believe
Speaker 3: on you. I believe on you. It's very odd, but
Speaker 3: I think that's I think that's really it's really important
Speaker 3: because three quarters of how we all survive in this
Speaker 3: is whatever workplace family you're in. And you know, Katie,
Speaker 3: you create an entire theater company that gives people a
Speaker 3: safe space and supports them to do what it is
Speaker 3: they do. And gearamaust so much of the work that
Speaker 3: you've done and the energy that you put forth. Even
Speaker 3: when you do the amazing genres that you do, you
Speaker 3: know like you dig into it and that every single
Speaker 3: person to a letter always says, you know, when I
Speaker 3: work with Gearmo, I feel like I just feel safe
Speaker 3: and loved and respected. And it's that's so much of
Speaker 3: I think what we're always craving for, which is a
Speaker 3: community where we can be super different in ways, but
Speaker 3: we have this one thing in common and that's what's
Speaker 3: like super cool totally.
Speaker 1: And I think also coming from where Katie I came from,
Speaker 1: we don't. I don't. We don't take shit for granted,
Speaker 1: right right, Like every day I'm on set, no matter what,
Speaker 1: to this day, I'm like, oh my god, I got
Speaker 1: to do my best. Like I'm so grateful for this job.
Speaker 1: And if I hadn't come up through you know, background
Speaker 1: work and working in the subway and you know theaters
Speaker 1: and student films, I don't think i'd have that sort
Speaker 1: of you know, appreciation and gratitude for any time I work,
Speaker 1: you know, And I hope that never goes away.
Speaker 3: Is there anything you really want to do that you
Speaker 3: haven't got a chance to do yet? Look if you
Speaker 3: guys can see Katie's face. So Katie's face, her eyeballs
Speaker 3: just popped out. Her eyeballs.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I say for sure. I mean I feel
Speaker 2: so like, oh I want All I wanted to do
Speaker 2: was like was was you know, a procedural I wanted
Speaker 2: to do. That's so bad. I knew I would be
Speaker 2: great at it, and and and and beyond. All I
Speaker 2: wanted to do was a series regular on television, and
Speaker 2: like great, And then all I wanted to do was
Speaker 2: a wife on a sitcom. All I wanted to do
Speaker 2: is a wife on a sitcom. And all I wanted
Speaker 2: to do was a Broadway musical. And I feel so
Speaker 2: fucking grateful that I need to check those things off.
Speaker 2: And now I'm like, all I want to do is
Speaker 2: like sci fi or like I mean, I want to
Speaker 2: do something fucking weird sci fi, like oh yeah, and
Speaker 2: then I want to do horror, like I got I've
Speaker 2: got a fucking sick scream and I can run and
Speaker 2: I can be really.
Speaker 3: So I'm just going to tell you something. She does
Speaker 3: have a really sick scream.
Speaker 2: I want to do that, like I think I could
Speaker 2: do so Like there's just so many cool things I've
Speaker 2: never done period, Like I would love to do seventies
Speaker 2: or eighties. I've never gotten to do something.
Speaker 3: Where it's like sixty seventies and eighties.
Speaker 1: Whoo.
Speaker 2: And I have a great head of hair for that.
Speaker 2: What the fuck people do?
Speaker 3: I'm telling you all, she's wearing like aviators from nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty nine.
Speaker 2: You I could do it. I can do it. So
Speaker 2: I think there's a little bit of that, like I'm
Speaker 2: a little bit I feel bad, but you know when
Speaker 2: you I audition a lot for like modern comedies where
Speaker 2: we're just sort of like trying to be funny and
Speaker 2: we're speaking like how we speak. So I'd like to
Speaker 2: do something that's like more elevating, like if it is period,
Speaker 2: or maybe it's horror or like a psychological thriller or
Speaker 2: sci fi that's weird and everything gets to be a
Speaker 2: little bit more presentational, Like that's cool for me. I'm
Speaker 2: super pumped about that, and I'm putting it out guys, which.
Speaker 3: Also like, let's see you do something we're totally surprised
Speaker 3: you're doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, what about you, Germo?
Speaker 3: What about you?
Speaker 2: Sir? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I thought I loved you more than anything. Katie and
Speaker 1: I can't love you even more now knowing that you
Speaker 1: want to do horror and sci fi because you know
Speaker 1: that my number one love is horror movies and horror horror,
Speaker 1: and oh my god, let's freaking do a fucking horror
Speaker 1: movie or a sci fi movie together. And it's so
Speaker 1: funny just to go back really quickly. You grew up
Speaker 1: in Port Washington, and you know I'm all down for
Speaker 1: all the horror stuff. But yes, I was gonna mention
Speaker 1: Amityville Horror, which was a house that was haunted in
Speaker 1: Long Island. But I've never ever done like a proper,
Speaker 1: proper horror film, so I still really want to do that.
Speaker 1: And I want to do Shakespeare. I'm terrified, terrified, and
Speaker 1: I know ke yes, please, and I know listen. I
Speaker 1: remember on set Katie sometimes Katie would go into a
Speaker 1: soliloquy from a Shakespeare play and know it by heart
Speaker 1: of something she did, like I don't know how many
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 2: I feel like a dignity and Favarona, where we lay
Speaker 2: out blood makes sibil hands unclean, and from fourth the
Speaker 2: fatal loins of these two foes, a pair of star
Speaker 2: cross lovers take their life. I could go on for
Speaker 2: I've got tet.
Speaker 1: I love it, so I want to do that, but
Speaker 1: I'm scared ship but I'm down hard.
Speaker 2: Would you want to do I.
Speaker 1: H I would love to do the Scottish play.
Speaker 3: I think you should do the Scottish play. I think
Speaker 3: your Scottish play is a really really good idea.
Speaker 1: I love Caesar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I also like the weird thing. And I'm not
Speaker 3: going to nerd out on this, but anyway, Coriolanus is
Speaker 3: very underrated. I'll just say that.
Speaker 2: That, peoples, that's a little bit rated.
Speaker 3: That's a little bit of pretension for a day where
Speaker 3: you're listening to a podcast.
Speaker 2: I think I've ever seen Coriolanus done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I have back in the geriatric days. It
Speaker 3: was amazing. It's about a guy with a mother complex.
Speaker 3: It's awesome.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: I can usually figure out a way to redo anything
Speaker 3: into one sentence, which is not really accurate, but at
Speaker 3: least it makes you think I know what I'm talking about. So,
Speaker 3: as we wrap up this amazing deep dive into both
Speaker 3: of your lives, as we understand more what makes you tickies?
Speaker 3: So are you pretty much? If it all ended today,
Speaker 3: I would imagine you're all pretty proud of the work
Speaker 3: you've done.
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely fuck yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: I can't fucking believe anyone anywhere ever, was like, here
Speaker 2: is a check for your acting services. I cannot. I
Speaker 2: still am shocked, Like I'm like, wait, what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's truly Uh, it's so hard, as you all have heard,
Speaker 2: to be employed as an actor, and I just can't.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm like driving my minivan around and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I can't believe I like have a minivan that I
Speaker 2: or from acting. It's insane. That's insane. It's insane, right,
Speaker 2: it's one in a billion. And it's really like my
Speaker 2: dad said, like like I just feel like I'm happiest
Speaker 2: on set and I love my job and I can't
Speaker 2: believe that I've gotten to do it, and I hope
Speaker 2: I get to do it again. That's like really yeah,
Speaker 2: And I don't want to wait tables again. I don't
Speaker 2: want to.
Speaker 3: Be no, no, no no. I think it's one of
Speaker 3: the germo. I'm assuming you feel the same way. It
Speaker 3: was sort of.
Speaker 1: A absolutely oh yeah.
Speaker 3: For what everything that we all do. I just every
Speaker 3: day get up and I feel so incredibly lucky and
Speaker 3: I am so passionate about it, and I'm I feel
Speaker 3: like that's that's the beauty of your work because you
Speaker 3: can see that coming through. You can see the hard work,
Speaker 3: but you never make you never make it look hard.
Speaker 3: You just know there must have been hard work somewhere.
Speaker 3: And so anybody who's listening to this, when you see
Speaker 3: these two work again, you're gonna know what the journey
Speaker 3: is and the work is behind the scenes. But what
Speaker 3: you see looks incredibly easy, and that's because they're really
Speaker 3: fucking good at what they do. But thank you for
Speaker 3: doing this. It's been so much fun packing and unpacking
Speaker 3: and then putting more crap in the bag and pulling
Speaker 3: out a screwdriver and then drinking exactly exactly. But this
Speaker 3: was really fun.
Speaker 2: Oh, it was such a blast. And we've had you
Speaker 2: on unpacking the toolbox, so we people who are interested
Speaker 2: can actually go back and listen about how Betsy Beers
Speaker 2: became the prolific twoty beer.
Speaker 3: So the garbage pale that is my strange past career.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting because you were good and interest in
Speaker 2: a lot of different weird fucking things that sort of
Speaker 2: all came together to make you so incredible at what
Speaker 2: you do and in episodes coming up. We have awesome
Speaker 2: gas coming up.
Speaker 3: Really, Like, I think what's super exciting about this is
Speaker 3: if you've enjoyed, Like, if you've enjoyed listening today's podcast,
Speaker 3: you've got to treat in store because we have some
Speaker 3: people lined up who have incredibly surprising stories.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: I think it's we all feel like it's it's just
Speaker 3: great to understand how people that we've worked with got
Speaker 3: to where they get what it is they do, because
Speaker 3: I believe that a lot of people out there may
Speaker 3: want to work in this business but may not know
Speaker 3: exactly what it is they want to do. And it's
Speaker 3: why I'm always preaching up producing. You see actors, you
Speaker 3: see directors, you hear about writers, but there are all
Speaker 3: these other incredible jobs that you honestly could not put
Speaker 3: anything on without the participation of these folks and learning
Speaker 3: a bit about what they really do do, where they
Speaker 3: come from, how they got there. I think it's going
Speaker 3: to be really fun and yes, I'm really looking forward
Speaker 3: to it, and I can. I can if I get
Speaker 3: to god back and guys.
Speaker 2: Of our trio. Betsy is the she is the most
Speaker 2: talented interviewer.
Speaker 3: So I don't think I.
Speaker 2: Have Betsy asked the questions while Germo and I just
Speaker 2: put in some funny interstitials.
Speaker 3: I think I think y'all have been doing just fine
Speaker 3: old job burning a podcast yourself. This is about the
Speaker 3: fact I like hanging out with you too, and this
Speaker 3: is the easiest way to do it at the moment
Speaker 3: because you're both really busy.
Speaker 2: We're lucky.
Speaker 3: Well, it's this was really fun. That would be it
Speaker 3: for us.
Speaker 2: Yes, stay tuned, we'll be interviewing and unpacking some other
Speaker 2: peeps from the industry on Unpacking the tool tool Box
Speaker 2: the industry.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Betsy, Thank you Katie, Thank you Katie.
Speaker 2: That was such a black That was fun. Yea Scandal
Speaker 2: is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan,
Speaker 2: Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Speaker 2: Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Unpacking the
Speaker 2: Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app
Speaker 2: or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.