1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:15,890 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,770 --> 00:00:22,490 Speaker 2: From the nineteen fifties to the nineteen seventies, a surfer 3 00:00:22,650 --> 00:00:27,690 Speaker 2: named Mickey Dora ruled Malibu. He was celebrated for his grace, 4 00:00:28,010 --> 00:00:31,810 Speaker 2: his style, and his rebellious spirit. He was also a 5 00:00:31,930 --> 00:00:35,410 Speaker 2: con man who led the FBI on a seven year 6 00:00:35,610 --> 00:00:40,130 Speaker 2: manhunt around the world. Another episode of Caution Retales will 7 00:00:40,170 --> 00:00:43,010 Speaker 2: be released on the usual schedule. But while you wait, 8 00:00:43,490 --> 00:00:46,010 Speaker 2: why not check out the new season of the gripping 9 00:00:46,210 --> 00:00:50,370 Speaker 2: Pushkin podcast Lost Hills, which takes a deep dive into 10 00:00:50,410 --> 00:00:54,690 Speaker 2: the world of Malibu's dark Prints. It's available wherever you 11 00:00:54,730 --> 00:00:57,010 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and of course, if you'd like to 12 00:00:57,010 --> 00:01:01,210 Speaker 2: binge all of the season three episodes early and ad free, 13 00:01:01,810 --> 00:01:05,290 Speaker 2: make sure you subscribe to Pushkin Plus. I now present 14 00:01:05,330 --> 00:01:10,210 Speaker 2: to you the first episode of Lost Hills doc Prints. 15 00:01:13,290 --> 00:01:16,650 Speaker 3: Not too long ago, I met a surfer named Denny Auburg. 16 00:01:17,450 --> 00:01:19,810 Speaker 3: He lives in Santa Barbara now, but he learned to 17 00:01:19,850 --> 00:01:22,650 Speaker 3: surf in Malibu when the sport was barely known on 18 00:01:22,690 --> 00:01:23,290 Speaker 3: the mainland. 19 00:01:24,170 --> 00:01:28,570 Speaker 4: I still go surfing after about sixty two years of surfing, 20 00:01:28,730 --> 00:01:31,610 Speaker 4: and go down to Rincon and live close by him. 21 00:01:32,170 --> 00:01:33,370 Speaker 4: I still have the stoke. 22 00:01:35,090 --> 00:01:37,250 Speaker 3: Denny told me a story about one of his early 23 00:01:37,330 --> 00:01:42,050 Speaker 3: surf experiences, a day that made an indelible impression on him. 24 00:01:42,450 --> 00:01:47,530 Speaker 3: It was nineteen fifty nine, he was twelve. The waves 25 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:50,690 Speaker 3: at Malibu were huge, but he and his friend decided 26 00:01:50,730 --> 00:01:54,490 Speaker 3: to paddle out anyway. They were kooks, They didn't know 27 00:01:54,530 --> 00:01:55,650 Speaker 3: what they were doing. 28 00:01:57,170 --> 00:01:59,130 Speaker 5: So we were beginners, you know. 29 00:01:59,210 --> 00:02:02,010 Speaker 4: We're down at Malibu and it was a big day, 30 00:02:02,090 --> 00:02:05,210 Speaker 4: you know, but we went out by the pier. When 31 00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:07,090 Speaker 4: it gets real big, you have to go way down 32 00:02:07,090 --> 00:02:09,730 Speaker 4: by the piero to paddle out. So we jump in 33 00:02:09,770 --> 00:02:12,090 Speaker 4: the water with our boards, you know, a little skinny 34 00:02:12,450 --> 00:02:17,530 Speaker 4: twelve year olds, and start turning our little skinny arms, 35 00:02:17,530 --> 00:02:19,490 Speaker 4: you know, doing this cook paddle, trying to get out 36 00:02:19,530 --> 00:02:21,530 Speaker 4: in a big set of waves. I mean, the big 37 00:02:21,570 --> 00:02:24,850 Speaker 4: waves came like a row of five or six waves. 38 00:02:24,850 --> 00:02:28,690 Speaker 4: Out to see them, I never forget this, the beauty 39 00:02:28,730 --> 00:02:30,210 Speaker 4: of this wave coming. 40 00:02:31,450 --> 00:02:34,210 Speaker 3: As the wave approached, Denny saw there was a surfer 41 00:02:34,250 --> 00:02:35,450 Speaker 3: on it. 42 00:02:35,130 --> 00:02:38,130 Speaker 4: Just perfectly placed on this wave, just trimming at the 43 00:02:38,250 --> 00:02:41,810 Speaker 4: very top of the wave. And there's a precision. When 44 00:02:41,850 --> 00:02:44,690 Speaker 4: you're trim it means your board's flushed sideways to the wave, 45 00:02:44,730 --> 00:02:47,090 Speaker 4: it's inside it, and you're getting speed that way because 46 00:02:47,090 --> 00:02:50,290 Speaker 4: it's in the right position, the fins just hanging on 47 00:02:50,410 --> 00:02:52,890 Speaker 4: at the top of the wave, and it's hand position 48 00:02:52,970 --> 00:02:55,530 Speaker 4: the way he's kind of arching in the little vales 49 00:02:55,570 --> 00:02:57,690 Speaker 4: of water coming off to those. It was the most 50 00:02:57,730 --> 00:03:01,330 Speaker 4: gorgeous thing, you know, the colors. He's riding this wind 51 00:03:01,370 --> 00:03:05,330 Speaker 4: blowing spin, drifts back and we're just watching this thing. 52 00:03:05,410 --> 00:03:06,570 Speaker 5: Oh my god. 53 00:03:08,730 --> 00:03:11,410 Speaker 4: But we realized he was coming right at us. You know, 54 00:03:12,890 --> 00:03:15,410 Speaker 4: we were the cooks in his way, you know, coming 55 00:03:15,530 --> 00:03:20,810 Speaker 4: right at us. So we had to turn sideways. You know, 56 00:03:20,890 --> 00:03:23,650 Speaker 4: it's hard to explain, but when you turn broadside, you 57 00:03:23,810 --> 00:03:26,930 Speaker 4: just get obliterated. It just took our board, It just 58 00:03:26,970 --> 00:03:31,410 Speaker 4: took us and lasted us, churning into the whitewater down 59 00:03:31,450 --> 00:03:33,770 Speaker 4: by the end of the pilings at the pier, I 60 00:03:33,850 --> 00:03:35,970 Speaker 4: really felt like I was going to drown. My friend 61 00:03:36,010 --> 00:03:38,810 Speaker 4: told me I almost drowned. I don't remember, but I 62 00:03:38,810 --> 00:03:42,490 Speaker 4: remember spitting out sand, and you know, just like, oh 63 00:03:42,570 --> 00:03:44,650 Speaker 4: my god, who was that guy? 64 00:03:47,610 --> 00:03:53,090 Speaker 3: Who was that guy? His name was Mickey Dora, also 65 00:03:53,210 --> 00:03:57,410 Speaker 3: known as the Cat, also known as the Dark Prince 66 00:03:57,490 --> 00:04:01,970 Speaker 3: of Malibu. In the nineteen fifties, as surfing spread from 67 00:04:02,010 --> 00:04:05,730 Speaker 3: Hawaii to California. Mickey gained a reputation as the most 68 00:04:05,850 --> 00:04:10,450 Speaker 3: dynamic and watchable surfer on the mainland. He was Malibu's 69 00:04:10,490 --> 00:04:15,650 Speaker 3: first homegrown celebrity and the surf world's first personality. He 70 00:04:15,850 --> 00:04:21,770 Speaker 3: put Malibu on the map. Mickey Doro was beautiful and charismatic, 71 00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:25,610 Speaker 3: but he was all shade. You don't earn that name, 72 00:04:25,930 --> 00:04:31,650 Speaker 3: the dark Prince for nothing. He represented Malibu's dark side, 73 00:04:32,410 --> 00:04:37,050 Speaker 3: what I think of as Malibu's true nature. He violently 74 00:04:37,090 --> 00:04:40,290 Speaker 3: opposed the happy, sun drenched Malibu that would come to 75 00:04:40,330 --> 00:04:43,930 Speaker 3: dominate pop culture, starting with the Gidget movies in the 76 00:04:44,050 --> 00:04:47,930 Speaker 3: late fifties, Malibu Barbie in the seventies, and everything that 77 00:04:48,050 --> 00:04:52,570 Speaker 3: came after that. He hated Gidget and everything she stood 78 00:04:52,610 --> 00:04:58,170 Speaker 3: for new surfers, girl surfers, surfers he thought didn't belong. 79 00:04:59,210 --> 00:05:02,450 Speaker 3: He went to war for the soul of Malibu, the 80 00:05:02,530 --> 00:05:10,210 Speaker 3: soul of surfing. Some days I think he won. Mickey 81 00:05:10,290 --> 00:05:15,730 Speaker 3: Dora was a surfing Jesse James, an unrepentant outlaw, idolized 82 00:05:15,770 --> 00:05:20,010 Speaker 3: by the so called wild kids of Malibu Beach, A 83 00:05:20,050 --> 00:05:23,050 Speaker 3: scoundrel who people say would screw them over for fun, 84 00:05:23,850 --> 00:05:28,050 Speaker 3: scam them, steal from them, and break their hearts, a 85 00:05:28,130 --> 00:05:32,490 Speaker 3: rebel who made his own rules. The legends were endless, 86 00:05:32,850 --> 00:05:36,530 Speaker 3: mostly not fact checkable, and Mickey was their primary author. 87 00:05:37,890 --> 00:05:42,330 Speaker 3: He stole Ringo Stars snuffbox or was it John Lennon's lighter? 88 00:05:43,130 --> 00:05:47,370 Speaker 3: He dated Cher before Sonny. He knew who kidnapped Frank 89 00:05:47,410 --> 00:05:51,410 Speaker 3: Sinatra Junior. He was a diamond smuggler, a drug lord, 90 00:05:51,770 --> 00:05:56,170 Speaker 3: a double agent, a European aristocrat, a prophet of the 91 00:05:56,210 --> 00:06:02,690 Speaker 3: coming apocalypse. He was an emotionally unstable man, armed and dangerous. 92 00:06:04,130 --> 00:06:06,490 Speaker 3: That one was courtesy of the FBI, who tried to 93 00:06:06,530 --> 00:06:10,090 Speaker 3: catch him for seven years. Because in the early seventies, 94 00:06:10,250 --> 00:06:12,330 Speaker 3: at the height of his fame, when some of his 95 00:06:12,450 --> 00:06:16,730 Speaker 3: bad deeds were catching up with him, Mickey just disappeared. 96 00:06:17,650 --> 00:06:20,290 Speaker 3: He went on the lamb, leading law enforcement on a 97 00:06:20,290 --> 00:06:24,490 Speaker 3: goose chase that spanned the globe. But while the law 98 00:06:24,570 --> 00:06:29,690 Speaker 3: was hunting him, he was hunting something else. The Perfect Wave, 99 00:06:30,970 --> 00:06:35,050 Speaker 3: a once in a century event sometimes called the rogue 100 00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:41,090 Speaker 3: Wave or the episodic Wave or the Ninth Wave. Does 101 00:06:41,130 --> 00:06:44,930 Speaker 3: that sound familiar. If it does, that's because it's a 102 00:06:44,970 --> 00:06:47,890 Speaker 3: lot like the plot of Point Break, the cult classic 103 00:06:47,890 --> 00:06:51,770 Speaker 3: from nineteen ninety one. In Point Break, Patrick Swayze plays 104 00:06:51,770 --> 00:06:55,050 Speaker 3: a groovy surfer named Body who robbed banks so he 105 00:06:55,090 --> 00:06:58,930 Speaker 3: could travel the world and find the perfect wave. Well, 106 00:06:59,210 --> 00:07:05,210 Speaker 3: Mickey was a real life Body, minus the Kumbaya. 107 00:07:05,450 --> 00:07:05,810 Speaker 6: He said. 108 00:07:05,930 --> 00:07:10,930 Speaker 7: Criminals break the laws, live outside the law. 109 00:07:11,850 --> 00:07:19,330 Speaker 1: Mickey's alias's Richard Austin Roach Junior, Michlos Dora, Mickey Dora. 110 00:07:19,690 --> 00:07:22,250 Speaker 4: It was a Swiss bank and yeah, they found four 111 00:07:22,330 --> 00:07:23,730 Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars in the. 112 00:07:23,730 --> 00:07:25,250 Speaker 1: Bank, Alexander Dora. 113 00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:27,770 Speaker 4: Nobody knows exactly where it came from. There are all 114 00:07:27,810 --> 00:07:29,010 Speaker 4: sorts of theories. 115 00:07:28,890 --> 00:07:32,930 Speaker 1: Michlos Dora, Cornell, Michael s Chapin. 116 00:07:32,690 --> 00:07:38,610 Speaker 7: Australia, New Zealand, Bali, Thailand, Malaysia, India, and I'm probably 117 00:07:38,610 --> 00:07:40,650 Speaker 7: missing a few, all of Europe. 118 00:07:41,090 --> 00:07:42,570 Speaker 1: Michael spring Chapin. 119 00:07:42,890 --> 00:07:45,650 Speaker 8: He went to amazing places before anybody was doing that 120 00:07:45,730 --> 00:07:47,090 Speaker 8: stuff by himself. 121 00:07:47,370 --> 00:07:51,130 Speaker 1: Michol spring Chapin, Michael Stanley Chapin. 122 00:07:51,450 --> 00:07:53,890 Speaker 3: You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to connect 123 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:54,690 Speaker 3: the dots around this. 124 00:07:55,250 --> 00:07:58,610 Speaker 1: Alexander Michlos and I fell in love the Manye he 125 00:07:58,690 --> 00:08:01,850 Speaker 1: walked out of the water until I realized he was 126 00:08:01,890 --> 00:08:03,450 Speaker 1: a scoundrel. 127 00:08:02,810 --> 00:08:06,810 Speaker 7: At a road and was chaining me to being accomplice. 128 00:08:08,490 --> 00:08:10,330 Speaker 6: I'm going to get in big trouble for saying all this. 129 00:08:10,770 --> 00:08:16,090 Speaker 6: He was narcissistic, but also incredibly intelligent and also, i'd 130 00:08:16,130 --> 00:08:17,450 Speaker 6: say a little bit sociopathic. 131 00:08:18,290 --> 00:08:21,490 Speaker 8: It just all gets darker and darker and darker until 132 00:08:21,650 --> 00:08:23,530 Speaker 8: I just want to sort of turn away from it. 133 00:08:23,530 --> 00:08:24,810 Speaker 8: I don't want to know about it anymore. 134 00:08:28,090 --> 00:08:31,930 Speaker 3: At its core, surfing is a counterculture, So Mickey being 135 00:08:31,970 --> 00:08:41,170 Speaker 3: an anti hero that just makes him Surfing's hero. I'm 136 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:46,810 Speaker 3: Dana Goodyear and this is Lost Hills Season three, The 137 00:08:46,930 --> 00:09:07,450 Speaker 3: Dark Prince, Episode one, The legend of Mickey Dora. 138 00:09:14,730 --> 00:09:17,130 Speaker 8: Who is the best in the world, who's the worst 139 00:09:17,170 --> 00:09:17,970 Speaker 8: in the world. 140 00:09:18,170 --> 00:09:19,210 Speaker 5: I don't give a fuck. 141 00:09:19,330 --> 00:09:21,650 Speaker 4: I don't give it to have if you want to 142 00:09:21,650 --> 00:09:23,530 Speaker 4: think I'm any good, find if they don't think I'm 143 00:09:23,530 --> 00:09:26,250 Speaker 4: any good, I don't give a shit. I have there 144 00:09:26,250 --> 00:09:27,930 Speaker 4: no right ways and enjoy myself. 145 00:09:36,290 --> 00:09:39,330 Speaker 3: Mickey Dora died from pancreatic cancer in two thousand and two. 146 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:42,690 Speaker 3: For reasons i'll get into later, there are very few 147 00:09:42,730 --> 00:09:46,170 Speaker 3: publicly available recordings of him. What you're about to hear 148 00:09:46,370 --> 00:09:49,770 Speaker 3: is probably the longest and most revealing clip that's out there. 149 00:09:50,450 --> 00:09:53,850 Speaker 3: It's from a nineteen ninety documentary called Surfers the movie. 150 00:09:54,570 --> 00:09:58,850 Speaker 3: In it, Mickey lays out his surfing philosophy. 151 00:09:59,850 --> 00:10:02,090 Speaker 5: My whole life is this escape. My whole life is 152 00:10:02,130 --> 00:10:02,490 Speaker 5: this way. 153 00:10:02,490 --> 00:10:05,570 Speaker 4: If I drop into set, the whole thing up, pull 154 00:10:05,650 --> 00:10:08,290 Speaker 4: up the bottom droom and pull up into it and 155 00:10:08,330 --> 00:10:13,610 Speaker 4: shoot for five go into a man and behind me, 156 00:10:13,850 --> 00:10:14,810 Speaker 4: all of this shit goes. 157 00:10:14,690 --> 00:10:15,290 Speaker 8: Over my bed. 158 00:10:20,210 --> 00:10:22,210 Speaker 9: He had been such a big part of surf history, 159 00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:24,370 Speaker 9: and as a kid, I soaked all that up. I 160 00:10:24,410 --> 00:10:27,250 Speaker 9: started surfing in the mid seventies, late seventies. 161 00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:32,130 Speaker 3: This is Kelly Slater, the eleven time World Surf League Champion. 162 00:10:32,850 --> 00:10:36,890 Speaker 3: He's regarded as the greatest surfer of all time. When 163 00:10:36,890 --> 00:10:39,090 Speaker 3: he was in his twenties, Kelly had the chance to 164 00:10:39,130 --> 00:10:40,410 Speaker 3: spend time with Mickey Dora. 165 00:10:41,530 --> 00:10:43,130 Speaker 9: It was part of the experience, you know, it was 166 00:10:43,130 --> 00:10:47,730 Speaker 9: a part of a essentially like a grassroots experience to 167 00:10:47,730 --> 00:10:50,530 Speaker 9: be around Mickey Dora in the surf world because he 168 00:10:50,730 --> 00:10:54,610 Speaker 9: was a legend. He was a living character to us, 169 00:10:54,650 --> 00:10:57,610 Speaker 9: to people in my era and just before me. Mickey 170 00:10:57,730 --> 00:11:01,170 Speaker 9: was He's one of the biggest names in surfing, and 171 00:11:02,010 --> 00:11:06,010 Speaker 9: he did represent the lifestyle and the freedom that surfers have, 172 00:11:07,490 --> 00:11:09,490 Speaker 9: and you know, a means to an end to go 173 00:11:09,570 --> 00:11:10,850 Speaker 9: travel around the world and surf. 174 00:11:14,370 --> 00:11:18,450 Speaker 3: Mickey was one of the original California surfers, an innovator 175 00:11:18,530 --> 00:11:22,530 Speaker 3: who was among the few standout masters, certainly the most 176 00:11:22,570 --> 00:11:26,930 Speaker 3: notorious and memorable. At the moment that surfing exploded into 177 00:11:26,970 --> 00:11:32,930 Speaker 3: the mainstream. Mickey had an ideology about surfing. Casual surfers 178 00:11:33,330 --> 00:11:36,610 Speaker 3: they should get out of his way, or better yet, 179 00:11:36,930 --> 00:11:42,770 Speaker 3: stay out of Malibu altogether. Professionals like Slater, they were 180 00:11:42,770 --> 00:11:49,690 Speaker 3: defiling something sacred. Mickey's way was total commitment and total freedom, 181 00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:51,370 Speaker 3: no rules. 182 00:11:52,450 --> 00:11:57,090 Speaker 9: The cool thing about Mickey's story is there's always been 183 00:11:57,090 --> 00:11:58,730 Speaker 9: this sort of tinge of like a little bit of 184 00:11:58,770 --> 00:12:02,610 Speaker 9: an outlaw lifestyle or something, an expat, a traveling person, 185 00:12:02,690 --> 00:12:04,610 Speaker 9: somebody who there's a little bit of mystery in their 186 00:12:04,610 --> 00:12:07,050 Speaker 9: life or whatever. And that was really prominent back in 187 00:12:07,090 --> 00:12:11,330 Speaker 9: the fifties and sixties and seventies surfing, and it really 188 00:12:11,370 --> 00:12:16,010 Speaker 9: built up the lore of mysterious characters around the world. 189 00:12:16,130 --> 00:12:17,610 Speaker 9: I don't know if all the stories I heard were 190 00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:20,250 Speaker 9: true or not, but that was the early days of 191 00:12:20,370 --> 00:12:24,410 Speaker 9: like Double seven. Maybe he pictured himself as like this 192 00:12:24,530 --> 00:12:26,930 Speaker 9: kind of like almost like a spy in this surf world. 193 00:12:27,010 --> 00:12:30,970 Speaker 9: Or something, and that was sort of celebrated to have 194 00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:34,650 Speaker 9: this sort of life at all costs and make it 195 00:12:34,690 --> 00:12:35,850 Speaker 9: fun while you're doing it. 196 00:12:43,530 --> 00:12:47,050 Speaker 3: I started surfing ten years ago, and there's not another 197 00:12:47,050 --> 00:12:50,130 Speaker 3: way to say it. I felt totally in love with it. 198 00:12:50,250 --> 00:12:53,250 Speaker 3: The smell of the wax, the taste of salt, the 199 00:12:53,290 --> 00:12:56,930 Speaker 3: squinting into the sun, the scar I'll have forever from 200 00:12:56,970 --> 00:12:59,450 Speaker 3: the rock at low tide Malibu that cut through my 201 00:12:59,490 --> 00:13:03,130 Speaker 3: wet suit and gashed my shin. I love the salty, 202 00:13:03,250 --> 00:13:06,410 Speaker 3: shaggy people who seem to congregate around the southern California 203 00:13:06,450 --> 00:13:10,250 Speaker 3: breaks people with stories from the not that distant past, 204 00:13:10,850 --> 00:13:16,050 Speaker 3: when mainland surfing was born. I got into surfing when 205 00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:18,210 Speaker 3: I had a newborn and a two year old, was 206 00:13:18,250 --> 00:13:21,170 Speaker 3: writing a book and teaching at a university and writing 207 00:13:21,210 --> 00:13:24,170 Speaker 3: full time for The New Yorker. I was living in 208 00:13:24,210 --> 00:13:29,530 Speaker 3: a world of obligations, deadlines, bedtimes, clocks, a life measured 209 00:13:29,530 --> 00:13:36,730 Speaker 3: out in teaspoons, very unfree. Surfing released me temporarily from 210 00:13:36,770 --> 00:13:40,970 Speaker 3: that identity. It let me drop out, It let me 211 00:13:41,050 --> 00:13:46,170 Speaker 3: live life by the tides. This one day, early in 212 00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:49,290 Speaker 3: my time surfing, I was in the water at sunset, 213 00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:53,050 Speaker 3: a beginner's spot between Santa Monica and Malibu, where you 214 00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:56,090 Speaker 3: park along Pacific Coast Highway and scramble down the rocks 215 00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:59,570 Speaker 3: with your board. I was sitting there in the long 216 00:13:59,650 --> 00:14:03,610 Speaker 3: lag between sets of waves, bobbing, looking up to the highway, 217 00:14:04,250 --> 00:14:08,370 Speaker 3: watching all the cars streaming by. So many times I'd 218 00:14:08,410 --> 00:14:11,330 Speaker 3: been in my car on that stretch of road. I 219 00:14:11,450 --> 00:14:14,570 Speaker 3: glanced over at the surfers in the water below. They 220 00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:19,930 Speaker 3: had seemed scenic, a picturesque feature of Los Angeles. But 221 00:14:20,050 --> 00:14:22,010 Speaker 3: now I was in the waves, and it was the 222 00:14:22,050 --> 00:14:26,890 Speaker 3: opposite the cars, the city clustered at the ocean's edge. 223 00:14:27,130 --> 00:14:33,130 Speaker 3: That was the backdrop. That world looked temporary, illusory. This 224 00:14:33,890 --> 00:14:46,650 Speaker 3: out here was real. To this day, Mickey Dora is 225 00:14:46,690 --> 00:14:50,250 Speaker 3: held up as an idol many people's idea of a 226 00:14:50,290 --> 00:14:54,890 Speaker 3: pure surfer. That was the case for Denny Auburg, for sure. 227 00:14:55,730 --> 00:14:58,730 Speaker 3: He idolized Mickey as a kid on the beach in Malibu, 228 00:14:59,130 --> 00:15:02,370 Speaker 3: and you can hear it in his voice. He still does. 229 00:15:03,450 --> 00:15:05,930 Speaker 4: Mickey was twelve years older than me. He was a 230 00:15:05,970 --> 00:15:08,490 Speaker 4: man when we were kids, you know, twenty five. 231 00:15:11,170 --> 00:15:14,010 Speaker 3: Denny's house is a simple wooden structure on his buddy's 232 00:15:14,050 --> 00:15:18,530 Speaker 3: avocado farm. The window ledges are lined with surf memorabilia, 233 00:15:19,130 --> 00:15:22,130 Speaker 3: trophies and plaques and photos of Denny as a toe 234 00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:22,930 Speaker 3: headed teenager. 235 00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:24,970 Speaker 5: That's a picture of him. 236 00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:26,250 Speaker 3: This is you surfing. 237 00:15:26,570 --> 00:15:28,570 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's Mickey Dora next to me. 238 00:15:30,370 --> 00:15:34,010 Speaker 3: Your style is not totally different from Mickey's. 239 00:15:34,290 --> 00:15:37,570 Speaker 4: Yeah, we probably all copied Mickey. You know, he was 240 00:15:37,570 --> 00:15:40,530 Speaker 4: a big influence. That's another thing, you know that people 241 00:15:40,570 --> 00:15:43,850 Speaker 4: copied his style and learned from him. You know, he 242 00:15:44,010 --> 00:15:47,210 Speaker 4: was a teacher just by doing it, you know, taught 243 00:15:47,290 --> 00:15:50,370 Speaker 4: us what to do, you know, how to ride away. 244 00:15:50,730 --> 00:15:50,930 Speaker 5: You know. 245 00:15:51,850 --> 00:15:57,930 Speaker 3: Amazing the way Mickey surfed, it was poetic. No one 246 00:15:57,930 --> 00:16:00,290 Speaker 3: who saw it could forget it, and no one could 247 00:16:00,370 --> 00:16:02,090 Speaker 3: match him, though everyone tried. 248 00:16:02,770 --> 00:16:05,770 Speaker 4: His nickname was the Cat because he had feline grace 249 00:16:05,850 --> 00:16:08,370 Speaker 4: on a way, you know, the way pushy flipped to 250 00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:11,570 Speaker 4: the nose, you know, boom boom, agile. You know, they 251 00:16:11,570 --> 00:16:13,970 Speaker 4: call him the cat. That's why they made him, not 252 00:16:14,050 --> 00:16:16,370 Speaker 4: because he was a cat burglar, but I guess he 253 00:16:16,450 --> 00:16:16,610 Speaker 4: was it. 254 00:16:19,690 --> 00:16:23,690 Speaker 3: Along with Mickey's unparalleled ability on a surfboard, his appearance 255 00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:27,050 Speaker 3: was unique on the beaches of southern California. In a 256 00:16:27,090 --> 00:16:31,250 Speaker 3: sea of boy scout blondes, he was obsidian dark hair 257 00:16:31,290 --> 00:16:35,810 Speaker 3: and eyes and the kind of complexion people often call swarthy. 258 00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:40,010 Speaker 8: The fact that the guy who caught our attention the 259 00:16:40,050 --> 00:16:45,650 Speaker 8: most is this hairy, dark haired guy who didn't look 260 00:16:45,690 --> 00:16:48,050 Speaker 8: at all like the archetype. I respond to that as well. 261 00:16:48,810 --> 00:16:52,370 Speaker 3: This is Matt Warshaw. He's a surf historian and the 262 00:16:52,410 --> 00:16:57,250 Speaker 3: curator of an incredible online resource called the Encyclopedia of Surfing. 263 00:16:58,690 --> 00:17:01,490 Speaker 8: In the surf World. You know, he looks so perfect 264 00:17:01,490 --> 00:17:04,690 Speaker 8: to be that person, the way Bowie looks so good 265 00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:07,810 Speaker 8: to be the person for that period of glam rock, 266 00:17:08,010 --> 00:17:11,410 Speaker 8: you know. And it's not even the handsomeess Grin by itself. 267 00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:14,090 Speaker 8: It's almost like this chesture cap thing, Like sometimes when 268 00:17:14,090 --> 00:17:15,890 Speaker 8: you think of Dora, it's like the rest of him 269 00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:18,450 Speaker 8: sort of fades away and it's just this dark hair 270 00:17:18,490 --> 00:17:20,850 Speaker 8: and that really sort of devilish grin. 271 00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:24,970 Speaker 3: But what really set Mickey apart was the persona he invented. 272 00:17:25,970 --> 00:17:30,250 Speaker 3: Micky Dora was a character, a complex self invention that 273 00:17:30,410 --> 00:17:33,650 Speaker 3: was meant to draw a maximum attention and to throw 274 00:17:33,690 --> 00:17:34,650 Speaker 3: people off his trail. 275 00:17:35,530 --> 00:17:37,410 Speaker 8: Micky seemed to have a I guess what we would 276 00:17:37,450 --> 00:17:39,810 Speaker 8: call a brand, And I got the feeling that he 277 00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:42,890 Speaker 8: dressed sort of for us. You know, he would show 278 00:17:42,970 --> 00:17:45,010 Speaker 8: up in things that you wouldn't expect a surfer to wear. 279 00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:47,370 Speaker 8: You know, he would just wear a tennis sweater to 280 00:17:47,410 --> 00:17:50,410 Speaker 8: the beach. I read someone said that Nicky would show 281 00:17:50,490 --> 00:17:53,050 Speaker 8: up with a starlet one day, and they'd show up 282 00:17:53,050 --> 00:17:56,050 Speaker 8: with two really pretty boys the next day. So I 283 00:17:56,050 --> 00:18:00,690 Speaker 8: think that he was never not having fun and sort 284 00:18:00,730 --> 00:18:04,010 Speaker 8: of just enjoying himself, especially in these early years, just 285 00:18:04,090 --> 00:18:08,010 Speaker 8: sort of playing with the image of being a surfer 286 00:18:08,410 --> 00:18:09,970 Speaker 8: before anybody else was doing it. 287 00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:19,850 Speaker 3: The ocean is infinite, but waves, waves shaped for surfing 288 00:18:20,490 --> 00:18:26,250 Speaker 3: with a face and room to play, are finite. The 289 00:18:26,410 --> 00:18:30,490 Speaker 3: deepest joy in surfing comes from a long, uninterrupted ride. 290 00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:34,290 Speaker 3: That's the whole point, to be alone on a wave, 291 00:18:35,330 --> 00:18:38,810 Speaker 3: or so I hear. I've been surfing in Los Angeles 292 00:18:38,810 --> 00:18:41,170 Speaker 3: for a decade, and I've rarely had a wave to 293 00:18:41,210 --> 00:18:45,170 Speaker 3: myself for more than a few seconds. There are too 294 00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:51,730 Speaker 3: many surfers and not enough waves. Denny Auberg remembers the 295 00:18:51,810 --> 00:18:56,010 Speaker 3: time before the early nineteen fifties when Malibu was an 296 00:18:56,130 --> 00:19:00,490 Speaker 3: undiscovered wave. Most days it was only Mickey Dora and 297 00:19:00,530 --> 00:19:02,210 Speaker 3: one or two others in the water. 298 00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:09,490 Speaker 4: And you had this wonderful wave to yourself, which makes 299 00:19:09,490 --> 00:19:11,890 Speaker 4: a big difference, because when you have a wave to 300 00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:14,130 Speaker 4: yourself and a perfect wave, you get the right of 301 00:19:14,170 --> 00:19:17,050 Speaker 4: your life and nobody gets in your way, and it's 302 00:19:17,130 --> 00:19:20,290 Speaker 4: just the nature all around you, and it's yours, you know, 303 00:19:20,330 --> 00:19:23,730 Speaker 4: and it's a personal connection with nature that it's hard 304 00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:25,530 Speaker 4: to duplicate. 305 00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:25,170 Speaker 2: You know. 306 00:19:25,250 --> 00:19:27,730 Speaker 4: It's just nothing like it, because it's so gorgeous in 307 00:19:27,770 --> 00:19:30,690 Speaker 4: the water and the wind blowing the waves back, and 308 00:19:31,410 --> 00:19:33,610 Speaker 4: you're free and there's no distractions. 309 00:19:33,610 --> 00:19:34,930 Speaker 5: You're just you and the waves. 310 00:19:37,290 --> 00:19:41,130 Speaker 3: Malibu is a perfect, long, right breaking wave that peels 311 00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:44,410 Speaker 3: from way off the point to the Malibu Pier, and 312 00:19:44,490 --> 00:19:47,490 Speaker 3: Mickey Dora owned it for about two decades from the 313 00:19:47,530 --> 00:19:51,690 Speaker 3: early fifties to the early seventies. And because it was Malibu, 314 00:19:52,010 --> 00:19:55,250 Speaker 3: that meant that Mickey Dora stood for something, an attitude 315 00:19:55,290 --> 00:19:59,090 Speaker 3: that would spread through the culture. Here's how one of 316 00:19:59,090 --> 00:20:04,290 Speaker 3: his admirers wrote about Mickey's influence in an authorized biography, quote, 317 00:20:05,050 --> 00:20:08,130 Speaker 3: he was our Elvis. There was no one else to 318 00:20:08,290 --> 00:20:12,690 Speaker 3: articulate the fundamental gestures of the sociopathic manifesto of a 319 00:20:12,730 --> 00:20:20,490 Speaker 3: coalescing youth consciousness unquote. The youth were sociopaths, and Mickey 320 00:20:20,730 --> 00:20:24,330 Speaker 3: was their leader up until nineteen seventy four when he 321 00:20:24,410 --> 00:20:29,570 Speaker 3: vanished from Malibu. That's when he became their god. 322 00:20:32,810 --> 00:20:35,850 Speaker 4: It was a mystery. It was kind of like, where's 323 00:20:35,890 --> 00:20:38,210 Speaker 4: Mickey Dora And they still had his name on the wall. 324 00:20:38,970 --> 00:20:43,450 Speaker 4: Some guy spray can Dora lives you know, on the 325 00:20:43,490 --> 00:20:46,690 Speaker 4: wall and stayed there forever, you know, and it kind 326 00:20:46,690 --> 00:20:48,850 Speaker 4: of left us. He left his mark in that way, 327 00:20:48,930 --> 00:20:51,570 Speaker 4: you know, and people would wonder where's Mickey. Nobody knew. 328 00:20:51,730 --> 00:20:55,810 Speaker 4: It was very much of a mystery for years because 329 00:20:55,850 --> 00:20:58,810 Speaker 4: he was on the run, you know, and kind of 330 00:20:58,810 --> 00:21:01,170 Speaker 4: like Billy the kid, you know, he was gone. He's 331 00:21:01,250 --> 00:21:05,050 Speaker 4: kind of had this reputation the bad boy on the run, 332 00:21:05,650 --> 00:21:11,410 Speaker 4: the fugitive so an added to his reputation. 333 00:21:24,610 --> 00:21:28,250 Speaker 3: Mickey Dora was a born con man. He could talk 334 00:21:28,290 --> 00:21:32,330 Speaker 3: his way into anything and out of almost everything. His 335 00:21:32,450 --> 00:21:36,210 Speaker 3: alleged scams ranged from petty and kind of ridiculous, like 336 00:21:36,290 --> 00:21:39,570 Speaker 3: renting out surfboards that didn't belong to him, to blatantly 337 00:21:39,730 --> 00:21:45,370 Speaker 3: criminal credit card fraud, fake plane tickets, stolen ski equipment, 338 00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:51,850 Speaker 3: stolen antiques, stolen passports. Eventually, his schemes would land him 339 00:21:51,930 --> 00:21:56,090 Speaker 3: in federal prison. You associated with him at your own risk. 340 00:21:57,250 --> 00:21:59,970 Speaker 3: Denny Auberg has a story about this, the kind of 341 00:22:00,010 --> 00:22:02,730 Speaker 3: thing that would happen on a typical day hanging out 342 00:22:02,730 --> 00:22:07,610 Speaker 3: with Mickey in the early seventies, Denny was invited to 343 00:22:07,690 --> 00:22:11,410 Speaker 3: Kawhi by a Hawaiian surf named Joey Cabbell. At the time, 344 00:22:11,530 --> 00:22:14,730 Speaker 3: Mickey was also in Hawaii. Cobell told Denny he'd like 345 00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:16,570 Speaker 3: to see Mickey too, So I. 346 00:22:16,570 --> 00:22:19,370 Speaker 4: Called up Mickey and told him, Joey invited you to come, 347 00:22:19,410 --> 00:22:20,490 Speaker 4: and he came right over. 348 00:22:21,330 --> 00:22:22,770 Speaker 5: He shut up. It was amazing. 349 00:22:23,490 --> 00:22:26,490 Speaker 3: Cobell, who was in peak physical shape, proposed the hike 350 00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:28,890 Speaker 3: to a beach to spend the night. It was an 351 00:22:28,930 --> 00:22:31,890 Speaker 3: eleven mile hike and not an easy one. 352 00:22:32,410 --> 00:22:35,610 Speaker 4: So I'm trudging along with Mickey Dora on this really 353 00:22:35,650 --> 00:22:38,930 Speaker 4: tough hike, you know, for us, and we're like city slickers. 354 00:22:39,290 --> 00:22:42,890 Speaker 4: Dora had these leather boots on, really the wrong equipment, 355 00:22:42,930 --> 00:22:45,370 Speaker 4: you know, and I was kind of feeling a little 356 00:22:45,370 --> 00:22:48,010 Speaker 4: sick myself, and it got dark on us, and we're 357 00:22:48,050 --> 00:22:50,370 Speaker 4: going to these canyons and pushing branches away. 358 00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:51,930 Speaker 5: Micky was tortured. 359 00:22:54,770 --> 00:22:58,610 Speaker 3: Finally they arrived at the beach. They were exhausted, and 360 00:22:58,690 --> 00:23:00,650 Speaker 3: Denny was starting to feel really bad. 361 00:23:01,410 --> 00:23:02,810 Speaker 5: He passed out in some cave. 362 00:23:02,850 --> 00:23:03,050 Speaker 7: You know. 363 00:23:03,290 --> 00:23:07,010 Speaker 4: He woke up in the morning and Mickey could see 364 00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:10,090 Speaker 4: that I was a little sick. He his mine started 365 00:23:10,090 --> 00:23:12,170 Speaker 4: working like I can't hike back. 366 00:23:12,570 --> 00:23:13,730 Speaker 5: I got to figure something out. 367 00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:18,010 Speaker 4: He saw this helicopter go by, you know it was 368 00:23:18,130 --> 00:23:19,570 Speaker 4: they had a tourist. 369 00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:21,490 Speaker 5: So Mickey had an idea. 370 00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:24,890 Speaker 3: Mickey slipped away and went down to the shoreline. He 371 00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:27,690 Speaker 3: gathered up some rocks and used them to write S 372 00:23:27,770 --> 00:23:29,530 Speaker 3: O S in big letters. 373 00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:32,410 Speaker 4: The next thing I know, the helicopter lands on this 374 00:23:32,490 --> 00:23:34,770 Speaker 4: path down the beach and Mickey goes up and talks 375 00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:37,210 Speaker 4: to the guy. I don't know what he was saying, 376 00:23:37,290 --> 00:23:38,970 Speaker 4: but apparently he was telling the guy that my friend's 377 00:23:39,010 --> 00:23:39,810 Speaker 4: died on the beach. 378 00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:41,650 Speaker 5: We need help. 379 00:23:42,770 --> 00:23:44,690 Speaker 4: And the guy said, I can't come back right now, 380 00:23:44,770 --> 00:23:48,210 Speaker 4: but you know soon did I take these people? And 381 00:23:48,370 --> 00:23:53,090 Speaker 4: right before dark, this guy came back and Micky says, 382 00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:54,570 Speaker 4: come on, that's it, let's go. 383 00:23:55,650 --> 00:23:56,370 Speaker 5: Okay. 384 00:23:56,410 --> 00:24:00,290 Speaker 4: He start doing the fifty yard dash toward this helicopter 385 00:24:01,090 --> 00:24:03,170 Speaker 4: down the beach and Mickey says, slow down. You got 386 00:24:03,170 --> 00:24:07,370 Speaker 4: to act a little sicker. You know, we walk up 387 00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:09,650 Speaker 4: to the helicopter pilot and he kind of looks at me, 388 00:24:09,690 --> 00:24:11,450 Speaker 4: and I was trying to stick her, and he opens 389 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:15,770 Speaker 4: the door. He let me in to the helicopter and 390 00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:18,250 Speaker 4: Mickey starts to get in behind him, and the guy goes, oh, no, 391 00:24:18,290 --> 00:24:19,970 Speaker 4: it's not you. It's just a sick guy, you know, 392 00:24:20,490 --> 00:24:23,210 Speaker 4: you know no. Mickey pulls out this little bottle. He said, 393 00:24:23,770 --> 00:24:27,450 Speaker 4: having an asthma attack. I can't breathe, you know, my 394 00:24:27,490 --> 00:24:30,130 Speaker 4: feet are bleeding, I can't walk. You know, you just 395 00:24:30,170 --> 00:24:32,890 Speaker 4: started crying the guy. You could tell the guy wasn't 396 00:24:32,890 --> 00:24:35,530 Speaker 4: buying it, but he let him in so he got 397 00:24:35,610 --> 00:24:39,410 Speaker 4: lifted off the pad. It was the most beautiful majestic thing. 398 00:24:39,410 --> 00:24:42,330 Speaker 4: I mean, the serrated mountains is colors, you know, and 399 00:24:42,490 --> 00:24:44,890 Speaker 4: running this little bubble up in the sky. And Mickey 400 00:24:44,890 --> 00:24:46,810 Speaker 4: turns he says, our magic carpet. 401 00:24:46,930 --> 00:24:54,970 Speaker 3: Right when the helicopter landed in town, there were news 402 00:24:55,010 --> 00:24:57,010 Speaker 3: reporters and cameras everywhere. 403 00:24:58,170 --> 00:24:59,810 Speaker 5: They thought somewhere they were bringing the dead guy. 404 00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:02,930 Speaker 4: You know, we land and all these people kind of 405 00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:05,890 Speaker 4: crowded around me, you know, and as soon as I 406 00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:10,050 Speaker 4: get out and they go, where's the sick guy? 407 00:25:10,290 --> 00:25:10,530 Speaker 5: Oh? 408 00:25:10,650 --> 00:25:11,050 Speaker 6: That was me? 409 00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:13,250 Speaker 4: And they're all disappointed, you know, and they leave. 410 00:25:14,530 --> 00:25:16,210 Speaker 5: Mickey was disappeared. He's nowhere. 411 00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:19,210 Speaker 4: I'm around. He disappeared on me. He left me holding 412 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:22,490 Speaker 4: the bag. So he pulled this whole thing off, and 413 00:25:23,170 --> 00:25:25,050 Speaker 4: I went through and got checked out. I did have 414 00:25:25,090 --> 00:25:28,370 Speaker 4: some little dysentery thing. The cops had gone looking for 415 00:25:28,490 --> 00:25:30,850 Speaker 4: Mickey and they found him trying to rent a car 416 00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:33,130 Speaker 4: at the airport and they dragged him back, you know, 417 00:25:33,210 --> 00:25:35,450 Speaker 4: and they were trying to interview the guy, and he 418 00:25:35,530 --> 00:25:38,730 Speaker 4: shown him all these fake ideas and one said chapin 419 00:25:38,810 --> 00:25:41,250 Speaker 4: the other one said Dora, who are you? Are you 420 00:25:41,410 --> 00:25:45,690 Speaker 4: chapin our Dora? And he's laughing, I'm chaping Dora, you know. 421 00:25:46,930 --> 00:25:49,490 Speaker 4: And I don't know how it happened, but he got 422 00:25:49,530 --> 00:25:50,890 Speaker 4: out of the whole thing, and I. 423 00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:51,690 Speaker 5: Was the fall guy. 424 00:25:55,210 --> 00:25:59,370 Speaker 3: To Mickey, Dora, the highest value was freedom, and that 425 00:25:59,610 --> 00:26:03,330 Speaker 3: to him meant doing whatever served him best in any situation. 426 00:26:04,810 --> 00:26:08,530 Speaker 3: For Mickey, freedom took priority over any other moral or 427 00:26:08,570 --> 00:26:13,290 Speaker 3: ethical cannsideration, and he would do or say almost anything 428 00:26:13,450 --> 00:26:17,890 Speaker 3: to get what he wanted. In nineteen seventy four, Mickey 429 00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:21,090 Speaker 3: left Malibu and set out on an adventure that took 430 00:26:21,170 --> 00:26:24,930 Speaker 3: him all over the world searching for the perfect empty wave. 431 00:26:25,970 --> 00:26:28,570 Speaker 3: He didn't have the money to travel like this, but 432 00:26:28,770 --> 00:26:32,170 Speaker 3: he did it anyway, using blank airline tickets that he 433 00:26:32,290 --> 00:26:34,570 Speaker 3: filled out for whatever destination he wanted. 434 00:26:35,330 --> 00:26:37,970 Speaker 7: Mickey had a whole bunch from a woman who worked 435 00:26:37,970 --> 00:26:39,250 Speaker 7: at the Pan American office. 436 00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:44,210 Speaker 3: This is Linda Kai, Mickey's girlfriend, an accomplice for much 437 00:26:44,250 --> 00:26:45,370 Speaker 3: of the nineteen seventies. 438 00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:48,970 Speaker 7: You could actually write your own tickets back in those days. 439 00:26:49,410 --> 00:26:51,850 Speaker 7: They were paper tickets written on and all you needed 440 00:26:51,850 --> 00:26:55,850 Speaker 7: to know was the mile age, and he had all 441 00:26:55,890 --> 00:26:59,690 Speaker 7: the paraphernalia to work it out. 442 00:27:00,450 --> 00:27:00,570 Speaker 4: Now. 443 00:27:00,610 --> 00:27:02,650 Speaker 7: I don't know who the girl was to give him 444 00:27:02,650 --> 00:27:04,890 Speaker 7: the stuff. He must have made a sweet you know, 445 00:27:06,410 --> 00:27:10,650 Speaker 7: but you're flying on these sort of forged Everything was fake. 446 00:27:11,850 --> 00:27:15,650 Speaker 3: They shopped and dined and stayed in nice hotels, all 447 00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:20,010 Speaker 3: of it, according to Linda, on forged credit cards, and 448 00:27:20,130 --> 00:27:23,090 Speaker 3: all while being tracked from surf spot to surf spot 449 00:27:23,330 --> 00:27:26,330 Speaker 3: by baffled agents of the FBI and Interpol. 450 00:27:27,730 --> 00:27:30,970 Speaker 7: Back in the day, credit cards were plastic, of course, 451 00:27:31,370 --> 00:27:34,330 Speaker 7: but they didn't have the strips on the backs like 452 00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:37,090 Speaker 7: they do now. In the manucrip, they had numbers and dates. 453 00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:40,570 Speaker 7: I was assigned to take a little razor blade and 454 00:27:41,290 --> 00:27:46,010 Speaker 7: change some numbers, and we did and make it good 455 00:27:46,010 --> 00:27:46,810 Speaker 7: for another month. 456 00:27:48,290 --> 00:27:51,970 Speaker 3: Mickey had a way of justifying all this theft and deception. 457 00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:57,410 Speaker 7: Mickey described at once as he says, I'm not a criminal. 458 00:27:57,850 --> 00:28:01,090 Speaker 7: He says, I don't commit crimes. He says, I'm an outlaw, 459 00:28:01,770 --> 00:28:03,090 Speaker 7: he says, and there's a difference. 460 00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:04,530 Speaker 1: Did you buy it? 461 00:28:04,770 --> 00:28:08,010 Speaker 7: Yes, I still do. 462 00:28:11,090 --> 00:28:13,770 Speaker 6: One of the great accomplishments that Mickey set out and 463 00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:18,050 Speaker 6: probably was successful at, was never working a day in 464 00:28:18,090 --> 00:28:21,810 Speaker 6: his life. That was his real goal, and he accomplished it. 465 00:28:22,290 --> 00:28:24,730 Speaker 6: I don't know if he ever actually had a job. 466 00:28:25,730 --> 00:28:28,610 Speaker 3: Jim Kempton used to be the editor of Surfer magazine, 467 00:28:28,890 --> 00:28:32,450 Speaker 3: and these days he runs the California Surf Museum. He 468 00:28:32,530 --> 00:28:34,890 Speaker 3: knew Mickey pretty well in the seventies when they were 469 00:28:34,930 --> 00:28:37,370 Speaker 3: both living in a surf town in the south of France. 470 00:28:38,170 --> 00:28:41,450 Speaker 3: In fact, Mickey crashed at his place a lot, used 471 00:28:41,450 --> 00:28:45,010 Speaker 3: his shower and his kitchen. One day, Jim noticed his 472 00:28:45,050 --> 00:28:46,370 Speaker 3: passport was missing. 473 00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:49,450 Speaker 6: And then sitting on the beach, you know, maybe two 474 00:28:49,450 --> 00:28:53,330 Speaker 6: weeks later, I see this South African guy look sort 475 00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:56,330 Speaker 6: of like me, and there's my passport. 476 00:28:56,490 --> 00:28:57,490 Speaker 3: Micky sold it to him. 477 00:28:57,570 --> 00:28:59,650 Speaker 6: I'm sure he did. I don't have. I mean, how 478 00:28:59,690 --> 00:29:02,610 Speaker 6: would you ever prove that right unless you arrested them both, 479 00:29:02,610 --> 00:29:05,250 Speaker 6: which I was not going to do in any. 480 00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:08,330 Speaker 3: Event, Did you ever say anything to Micky about it? Now, 481 00:29:09,690 --> 00:29:12,890 Speaker 3: in the surf world, it was almost currency to be 482 00:29:12,930 --> 00:29:16,130 Speaker 3: scammed by Mickey. You'd come away from the experience with 483 00:29:16,170 --> 00:29:20,330 Speaker 3: a story to dine out on for years. Mickey's appeal 484 00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:23,770 Speaker 3: was not in spite of his criminality, but because of it. 485 00:29:25,570 --> 00:29:29,490 Speaker 6: There's a lot of people who love the outlaw, who 486 00:29:29,530 --> 00:29:32,090 Speaker 6: loved getting away with it is something that for many 487 00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:35,810 Speaker 6: people is a great satisfaction to them to see people 488 00:29:36,170 --> 00:29:39,090 Speaker 6: be able to accomplish that, and Mickey, for a long 489 00:29:39,210 --> 00:29:43,610 Speaker 6: time was able to do that without payment. We tend 490 00:29:43,810 --> 00:29:48,290 Speaker 6: to idolize our outlaws. Jesse James, pretty boy Floyd. You know, 491 00:29:48,770 --> 00:29:51,370 Speaker 6: you hear those stories about them, you'd think that those 492 00:29:51,370 --> 00:29:56,170 Speaker 6: guys were somehow like heroic. They are sociopathic killers, every 493 00:29:56,210 --> 00:29:59,810 Speaker 6: one of them, you know, that murdered people in cold blood, 494 00:29:59,970 --> 00:30:03,170 Speaker 6: and yet did they give to the poor. Yeah, they did, 495 00:30:03,530 --> 00:30:05,930 Speaker 6: mostly though, to say, to make sure that they didn't 496 00:30:05,930 --> 00:30:13,050 Speaker 6: tell the cops where they were. We definitely idolize are outlaws. 497 00:30:13,170 --> 00:30:15,530 Speaker 6: That's just something that is I think baked into the 498 00:30:15,570 --> 00:30:17,690 Speaker 6: American psyche. 499 00:30:17,330 --> 00:30:19,930 Speaker 3: And it's very prominent in surf culture. 500 00:30:21,610 --> 00:30:25,530 Speaker 6: Very few nice guys are as idolized as the bad 501 00:30:25,570 --> 00:30:26,170 Speaker 6: boys are. 502 00:30:26,810 --> 00:30:30,090 Speaker 3: And is Mickey Dora the most idolized of the bad boys. 503 00:30:30,330 --> 00:30:32,130 Speaker 6: He's not on the most idolized the bad boy who's 504 00:30:32,170 --> 00:30:34,050 Speaker 6: also the most bad guys of the bad guys. 505 00:30:37,090 --> 00:30:40,130 Speaker 3: The darkest parts of Mickey Dora, though, don't have anything 506 00:30:40,170 --> 00:30:43,130 Speaker 3: to do with his hustles and his cons or even 507 00:30:43,170 --> 00:30:46,370 Speaker 3: with the more serious fraud for which he eventually served time. 508 00:30:47,450 --> 00:30:49,610 Speaker 3: The darkest parts of Mickey have to do with his 509 00:30:49,770 --> 00:30:54,690 Speaker 3: soul and the attitudes he harbored there of exclusion, racism, 510 00:30:54,850 --> 00:30:58,890 Speaker 3: and xenophobia, a pattern of hate that maps onto the white, 511 00:30:58,930 --> 00:31:03,130 Speaker 3: white world of mainland surfing, where he was Malibu's superstar 512 00:31:03,410 --> 00:31:07,850 Speaker 3: in his sunglasses, with his cheshire cat smile, showing all 513 00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:20,450 Speaker 3: the little sociopaths how it was done. 514 00:31:21,410 --> 00:31:27,250 Speaker 10: Mickey Dora was a secret key to California culture and 515 00:31:27,450 --> 00:31:30,170 Speaker 10: an invisible thread that wound up running through much of 516 00:31:30,210 --> 00:31:33,730 Speaker 10: what we know is modern California culture. You look at 517 00:31:33,730 --> 00:31:37,930 Speaker 10: how California culture has affected America's culture and how America's 518 00:31:38,010 --> 00:31:41,210 Speaker 10: culture has gone on to affect the world, and you 519 00:31:41,290 --> 00:31:43,370 Speaker 10: can kind of draw a line back to Dora on 520 00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:45,210 Speaker 10: a number of different things. 521 00:31:46,170 --> 00:31:49,650 Speaker 3: DVI Divisentis is a film and television writer who, back 522 00:31:49,650 --> 00:31:51,650 Speaker 3: in two thousand and four, was hired to write a 523 00:31:51,650 --> 00:31:52,570 Speaker 3: movie about Mickey. 524 00:31:53,450 --> 00:31:58,490 Speaker 10: I was approached by Appian Way, which is Leonardo DiCaprio's company. 525 00:31:59,530 --> 00:32:02,170 Speaker 3: The movie never happened, but it was supposed to start. 526 00:32:02,210 --> 00:32:05,890 Speaker 3: DiCaprio as Decat just two years after he played the 527 00:32:05,890 --> 00:32:08,890 Speaker 3: con artist Frank Abagnail Junior and Catch Me if you can. 528 00:32:10,410 --> 00:32:13,250 Speaker 3: Dev ended up spending a lot of time thinking about 529 00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:13,890 Speaker 3: Mickey Dora. 530 00:32:15,130 --> 00:32:18,090 Speaker 10: He embodied, in both his thinking and his actions, the 531 00:32:18,130 --> 00:32:22,850 Speaker 10: contradiction between not being a native to somewhere and somehow 532 00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:25,970 Speaker 10: feeling proprietary about that place. 533 00:32:27,930 --> 00:32:33,250 Speaker 3: Surfing is supposed to be a feel good sport, right wrong. 534 00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:37,810 Speaker 3: Surfing is a club and the membership is capped. 535 00:32:38,770 --> 00:32:41,690 Speaker 10: Everybody's getting pissed off about being displaced, and everybody's getting 536 00:32:41,730 --> 00:32:44,170 Speaker 10: pissed off about being commodified, and everybody's being pissed off 537 00:32:44,170 --> 00:32:48,130 Speaker 10: about sharing resources and sharing territory, and it just never ends, 538 00:32:48,170 --> 00:32:50,690 Speaker 10: and it still it just goes on to today. So 539 00:32:51,330 --> 00:32:57,050 Speaker 10: you have people like Mickey who have picked a spot 540 00:32:57,450 --> 00:33:00,770 Speaker 10: where it's supposed to be and nobody else is supposed 541 00:33:00,810 --> 00:33:04,650 Speaker 10: to show up. I think that Mickey himself was very 542 00:33:04,690 --> 00:33:08,690 Speaker 10: aware of the fact that he was excusing himself from 543 00:33:08,770 --> 00:33:13,770 Speaker 10: any prosecution for being an invader, and it was just like, yeah, yeah, 544 00:33:13,810 --> 00:33:16,810 Speaker 10: I know, I am too, but we're done now. No 545 00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:17,690 Speaker 10: more after me. 546 00:33:20,130 --> 00:33:22,810 Speaker 3: The way Mickey Doora saw the world, I have no 547 00:33:22,930 --> 00:33:28,770 Speaker 3: business surfing, and neither do you, Not at Malibu, not anywhere. 548 00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:38,170 Speaker 3: Knowing of my interest in the dark side of Malibu, 549 00:33:38,610 --> 00:33:41,890 Speaker 3: a friend of mine, a fifth generation Californian who grew 550 00:33:41,970 --> 00:33:45,090 Speaker 3: up surfing in Santa Monica and Venice, turned me on 551 00:33:45,170 --> 00:33:47,610 Speaker 3: to an essay that ran in the June July nineteen 552 00:33:47,650 --> 00:33:51,650 Speaker 3: seventy six issue of Surfer Magazine. It was called the 553 00:33:51,730 --> 00:33:56,530 Speaker 3: Curse of the Shumash subtitle Malibu is a land of 554 00:33:56,610 --> 00:34:01,970 Speaker 3: strange occurrences and contrast. This was right up my street. 555 00:34:02,570 --> 00:34:05,850 Speaker 3: I bought a copy of the magazine on eBay. It 556 00:34:05,930 --> 00:34:09,410 Speaker 3: turned out to be an odd piece of work, a 557 00:34:09,450 --> 00:34:13,250 Speaker 3: pseudo history of Malibu told through the vibrant surf culture 558 00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:16,890 Speaker 3: that flourished there and apparently died circa nineteen seventy six 559 00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:21,290 Speaker 3: with the introduction of Malibu Barbie. The piece was peppered 560 00:34:21,330 --> 00:34:25,250 Speaker 3: with arcane references to Mickey Dora, his antics, and his 561 00:34:25,650 --> 00:34:30,010 Speaker 3: self imposed exile. He was obviously the star of the article, 562 00:34:30,490 --> 00:34:34,690 Speaker 3: of the place and of the time. I flipped through it, 563 00:34:34,970 --> 00:34:39,130 Speaker 3: studying the grainy photographs. On one page there were several 564 00:34:39,170 --> 00:34:42,850 Speaker 3: pictures of Mickey going down the line at Malibu, and 565 00:34:42,930 --> 00:34:45,290 Speaker 3: on the facing page there was a picture of Mickey 566 00:34:45,370 --> 00:34:49,210 Speaker 3: in a dinner jacket, sunglasses and maybe a wig, holding 567 00:34:49,250 --> 00:34:52,170 Speaker 3: a surf contest trophy in one hand and a baby 568 00:34:52,210 --> 00:34:55,250 Speaker 3: doll in the other. He's standing in front of a 569 00:34:55,290 --> 00:34:59,330 Speaker 3: sign for Camerrio State Hospital, a mental institution that some 570 00:34:59,410 --> 00:35:03,370 Speaker 3: say was the Hotel California the Eagles sang about the 571 00:35:03,410 --> 00:35:07,250 Speaker 3: one you could check out from but never leave. In 572 00:35:07,290 --> 00:35:10,770 Speaker 3: the image, Mickey also has a surfboard with him angled 573 00:35:10,770 --> 00:35:13,450 Speaker 3: away from the camera so it dominates the lower half 574 00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:16,450 Speaker 3: of the frame, and on the bottom of the board 575 00:35:17,010 --> 00:35:25,210 Speaker 3: is an enormous swastika. Who wrote this thing? I flipped 576 00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:31,570 Speaker 3: back to the byline, Carlos Eizan Isizan is an unusual name. 577 00:35:32,570 --> 00:35:34,530 Speaker 3: It took me a second to realize that it was 578 00:35:34,570 --> 00:35:43,130 Speaker 3: a pseudonym Aizen is Nazi spelled backwards. My friend who'd 579 00:35:43,170 --> 00:35:46,410 Speaker 3: recommended this essay as Jewish and not in any way 580 00:35:46,450 --> 00:35:49,850 Speaker 3: sympathetic to this kind of stuff. He's just into the 581 00:35:49,890 --> 00:35:53,050 Speaker 3: Malibu lore like I am, and probably hadn't read the 582 00:35:53,090 --> 00:35:57,690 Speaker 3: piece since it came out in nineteen seventy six. But 583 00:35:57,810 --> 00:36:02,890 Speaker 3: looking at it now I felt a kind of uncomfortable recognition. Something, 584 00:36:03,370 --> 00:36:08,810 Speaker 3: unfortunately was starting to make sense. Much as I love, 585 00:36:09,970 --> 00:36:12,170 Speaker 3: there are things about it I have to suppress in 586 00:36:12,250 --> 00:36:15,410 Speaker 3: order to keep enjoying it. Signals that there is something 587 00:36:15,490 --> 00:36:19,570 Speaker 3: rotten there. There's the sign at my local break that 588 00:36:19,690 --> 00:36:23,450 Speaker 3: warns kooks to stay off the main takeoff spot. There's 589 00:36:23,490 --> 00:36:26,650 Speaker 3: the scarcity of black surfers in the water. There are 590 00:36:26,650 --> 00:36:30,410 Speaker 3: the reports year after year of swastikas and Hyle Hitler's 591 00:36:30,410 --> 00:36:35,770 Speaker 3: and antisemitic flyers in beach towns across southern California. In 592 00:36:35,810 --> 00:36:38,850 Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, in Manhattan Beach, a coastal city in 593 00:36:38,970 --> 00:36:42,450 Speaker 3: La County, an older white surfer was filmed yelling the 594 00:36:42,570 --> 00:36:44,730 Speaker 3: N word at two young black men in the water. 595 00:36:45,490 --> 00:36:51,090 Speaker 3: A nearby teenager told them this is a locals beach hateful, 596 00:36:51,290 --> 00:36:55,130 Speaker 3: racist and atismitic messages spray painted all over the playground 597 00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:56,650 Speaker 3: of a South Bay elementary school. 598 00:36:56,730 --> 00:36:59,170 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is not the first time or even 599 00:36:59,210 --> 00:36:59,770 Speaker 2: the second time. 600 00:37:00,170 --> 00:37:02,930 Speaker 3: And this was just in twenty twenty two. Within a 601 00:37:02,970 --> 00:37:04,690 Speaker 3: couple miles of that same beach. 602 00:37:05,210 --> 00:37:08,690 Speaker 6: A photo of a giant swastika, which we've blurred, spray 603 00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:11,290 Speaker 6: painted in the middle of the playground and you could 604 00:37:11,290 --> 00:37:12,810 Speaker 6: see some kids playing nearby. 605 00:37:13,290 --> 00:37:17,770 Speaker 3: Whatever's going on here. Call it surfing's Nazi problem. It 606 00:37:17,810 --> 00:37:23,370 Speaker 3: goes back decades. Mickey didn't invent this, but he played 607 00:37:23,370 --> 00:37:29,210 Speaker 3: the supremacist to the hilt. Malibu belonged to him. Some 608 00:37:29,330 --> 00:37:34,050 Speaker 3: called him the Dark Prince. He called himself Malibu's quote 609 00:37:34,410 --> 00:37:39,410 Speaker 3: rightful king. He believed himself to be superior, and everyone 610 00:37:39,450 --> 00:37:43,170 Speaker 3: around him told him he was right. As surfing was 611 00:37:43,210 --> 00:37:46,010 Speaker 3: discovered and began to be widely popular in the sixties, 612 00:37:46,410 --> 00:37:50,730 Speaker 3: he railed that Malibu was being overrun with quote kooks 613 00:37:50,770 --> 00:37:53,970 Speaker 3: of all colors, fags and finks, and a thousand other 614 00:37:54,130 --> 00:37:59,330 Speaker 3: social deviations unquote. He railed against the gidget movies that 615 00:37:59,410 --> 00:38:02,690 Speaker 3: had exposed Malibu to the masses. He let it be 616 00:38:02,770 --> 00:38:06,130 Speaker 3: known that this was why he had to leave. Too 617 00:38:06,170 --> 00:38:12,210 Speaker 3: many people who didn't belong were ruining his wave and 618 00:38:12,370 --> 00:38:18,050 Speaker 3: everywhere he went, Mickey stoked conflict, feeding surfing's rebellious young, 619 00:38:18,530 --> 00:38:22,050 Speaker 3: the stories of his exile and all those who'd done 620 00:38:22,090 --> 00:38:22,690 Speaker 3: him wrong. 621 00:38:25,850 --> 00:38:28,250 Speaker 8: There's a lot of faults I can find with this 622 00:38:29,090 --> 00:38:32,170 Speaker 8: culture that I was in the middle of for forty 623 00:38:32,170 --> 00:38:34,530 Speaker 8: something years and arguably still am, but I'm no longer 624 00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:39,850 Speaker 8: sort of here to defend it. So putting Dora into 625 00:38:39,850 --> 00:38:41,850 Speaker 8: all that, you know, there's just a lot about it 626 00:38:41,890 --> 00:38:45,970 Speaker 8: that isn't great, and Mickey, on his bad days, is 627 00:38:46,050 --> 00:38:47,330 Speaker 8: right at the center of all that. 628 00:38:47,930 --> 00:38:51,170 Speaker 3: Matt Warshaw, the surf historian, remembers being a kid and 629 00:38:51,210 --> 00:38:54,490 Speaker 3: seeing this famous photoshoot of Mickey Dora that was printed 630 00:38:54,490 --> 00:38:57,930 Speaker 3: in Surfer magazine in nineteen sixty nine, and. 631 00:38:57,930 --> 00:39:00,770 Speaker 8: There was a three shot sequence of him surfing where 632 00:39:00,770 --> 00:39:03,330 Speaker 8: he comes down the way. It's Malibu. He's dropping in 633 00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:05,970 Speaker 8: you can see a surfer in front of him, and 634 00:39:06,050 --> 00:39:08,450 Speaker 8: the next picture Mickey's doing a turn off the bottom 635 00:39:09,210 --> 00:39:11,210 Speaker 8: and the surfer in front of him kind of looking back. 636 00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:15,410 Speaker 8: And the third shot is Mickey's just shot his board 637 00:39:15,730 --> 00:39:17,810 Speaker 8: right at the guy and it's gone right across his 638 00:39:17,930 --> 00:39:21,890 Speaker 8: chest and knocked him off his feet. Right and at nine, 639 00:39:22,330 --> 00:39:25,010 Speaker 8: because I surfed Malibu or I was going to surf Malibu, 640 00:39:25,050 --> 00:39:28,930 Speaker 8: and I just it so bought into Kook's go home 641 00:39:29,050 --> 00:39:32,970 Speaker 8: kind of thing. This was Dora regulating. Look what he's doing, 642 00:39:33,050 --> 00:39:34,330 Speaker 8: you know, he's doing what needs to be done to 643 00:39:34,330 --> 00:39:35,810 Speaker 8: get rid of the kooks. That guy dropped in on 644 00:39:35,850 --> 00:39:37,530 Speaker 8: front of Mickey Dora, you know, get out of here, 645 00:39:37,570 --> 00:39:39,970 Speaker 8: Kouk and Da da dah. And so as a kid, 646 00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:41,890 Speaker 8: I thought that was kind of cool. And now I 647 00:39:41,890 --> 00:39:43,890 Speaker 8: look at that now and I put that porn right 648 00:39:43,930 --> 00:39:46,730 Speaker 8: through that guy's back, and it looks terrible to me. 649 00:39:48,050 --> 00:39:52,050 Speaker 3: Mickey Dora presents a conundrum for surfers and anyone brought 650 00:39:52,130 --> 00:39:55,610 Speaker 3: up on the California youth culture. He's so heavily influenced. 651 00:39:56,810 --> 00:39:59,170 Speaker 8: If I see a clip of Mickey surfing for a 652 00:39:59,210 --> 00:40:02,330 Speaker 8: few seconds at Malibu, my heart as a surfer just 653 00:40:03,170 --> 00:40:06,010 Speaker 8: it just melts, you know. If I just see a 654 00:40:06,090 --> 00:40:09,170 Speaker 8: picture of him with that grin, there's something about that 655 00:40:09,170 --> 00:40:14,010 Speaker 8: that speaks to my depths as a surfer. He's unresolved 656 00:40:14,010 --> 00:40:17,290 Speaker 8: for me almost on a weekly basis, Like it's some 657 00:40:17,450 --> 00:40:21,370 Speaker 8: days I'm very much on team Mickey, and some days 658 00:40:21,410 --> 00:40:24,530 Speaker 8: I go this guy's a really terrible human being. We 659 00:40:24,610 --> 00:40:28,130 Speaker 8: need to put attention on and think about and talk 660 00:40:28,170 --> 00:40:31,690 Speaker 8: about somebody else. Anytime I sort of spend enough time 661 00:40:32,130 --> 00:40:35,090 Speaker 8: in his life looking at at how he treated people 662 00:40:35,290 --> 00:40:38,250 Speaker 8: and things that he said, I just start pulling away. 663 00:40:39,490 --> 00:40:41,730 Speaker 8: How do I feel about Mickey Dora? You know, it 664 00:40:41,770 --> 00:40:43,090 Speaker 8: depends on what day you ask me. 665 00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:48,530 Speaker 3: It seems like the surfing world is still not ready 666 00:40:48,650 --> 00:40:50,210 Speaker 3: to have the Mickey Dora conversation. 667 00:40:50,970 --> 00:40:52,570 Speaker 8: Part of me is just saying, God, stay away from this. 668 00:40:54,210 --> 00:40:55,890 Speaker 3: But it seems to me that if I can make 669 00:40:55,930 --> 00:40:58,930 Speaker 3: sense of Mickey Dora, who he was and what he did, 670 00:40:59,370 --> 00:41:02,690 Speaker 3: what he means to people still, I'll get closer to 671 00:41:02,730 --> 00:41:07,210 Speaker 3: the heart of this strange place Malibu, where the central 672 00:41:07,290 --> 00:41:13,410 Speaker 3: question is about belonging insiders versus outsiders. Mickey was both. 673 00:41:14,170 --> 00:41:16,530 Speaker 3: He was a shape shifter and a con man with 674 00:41:16,610 --> 00:41:22,210 Speaker 3: a cruel and narcissistic streak entitled charming and living entirely 675 00:41:22,250 --> 00:41:28,130 Speaker 3: for himself. Is Mickey the secret key to California? If 676 00:41:28,130 --> 00:41:32,130 Speaker 3: he is? It all begins in Malibu, on the beach 677 00:41:32,330 --> 00:41:43,330 Speaker 3: where Mickey became famous. On the next episode of Lost Hills, 678 00:41:43,690 --> 00:41:47,090 Speaker 3: a suspicious death sets Mickey on a strange new path. 679 00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:50,490 Speaker 8: At some point he was down in Mexico, I think, 680 00:41:50,530 --> 00:41:55,250 Speaker 8: fishing and trying to not drink. He was going to 681 00:41:55,330 --> 00:41:58,370 Speaker 8: row a dinghy out to a friend's boat, and the 682 00:41:58,410 --> 00:41:59,970 Speaker 8: body turned up five days later. 683 00:42:01,330 --> 00:42:08,090 Speaker 3: That's next in episode two, Death in Mexico. Lost Hills 684 00:42:08,130 --> 00:42:11,730 Speaker 3: is written and reported by Me Dana Goodyear. It's created 685 00:42:11,770 --> 00:42:15,210 Speaker 3: by me and Benadere and produced by Western Sound and 686 00:42:15,290 --> 00:42:19,490 Speaker 3: Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you can binge 687 00:42:19,530 --> 00:42:23,730 Speaker 3: the entire season right now ad free. Find Pushkin Plus 688 00:42:23,730 --> 00:42:26,290 Speaker 3: on the Lost Tail show page in Apple Podcasts, or 689 00:42:26,330 --> 00:42:30,610 Speaker 3: at pushkin dot fm, slash plus