1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: My guest today is Susannah Fus, who has a new book, 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: This Bird Has Flown and a new album, The Deep End. Susannah, 4 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: why a book? Why? Now? Oh? I love this question. Um. 5 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: I've been a lifelong reader. My favorite thing is to 6 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: escape from my own thoughts and being in someone else's story. 7 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: And I love I love disappearing into a into a fiction. 8 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: And you know this is true for you know, I 9 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: think why I'm addicted to listening to songs, why I 10 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: obsessively watch movies, um, and and why I love novels. 11 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: And I've been reading since I was a little girl, 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: and it had always been kind of, um a dream 13 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: to one day write a novel. I started one in 14 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine as the Bengals were winding down, but 15 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: then then I didn't really pursue it, you know. So 16 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: suddenly and I'd written, and I've co written several screenplays, 17 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: some of which have been optioned, but then they just 18 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: sort of found themselves on a shelf in some studio 19 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: in development. Hell. So, um, it was around I sort 20 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: of embarrassed to say how long the process of me 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: of me writing this novel has been but I'll be 22 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: honest with you, it's the idea really came to fruition 23 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. I was still doing Bengals shows and 24 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: working on solo music, but it became an absolute passion. 25 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: In fact, it was almost like a psychotic addiction to 26 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: the process of writing the novel. I became completely cessed 27 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: and immersed in it. Let's go back a chapter. You 28 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: say you're a big reader. I hate to put people 29 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: on the spot because their mind goes blank. But what 30 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:14,839 Speaker 1: have you read recently that you'd enjoyed? Well? I read, um, um, Well, 31 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: I read Daisy in the Six Okay, I thought so, 32 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: and I've um, oh, gosh, you put me on the spot. Here. 33 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: What there's all these books in my I should look 34 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: at my phone. What's in my my phone? Here? Bear 35 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: with me, because there's um I'm reading the love Songs 36 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: of W. E. B. Du Bois. Um. I just recently 37 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: read Truman Capote's novella Breakfast at Tiffany. It's extraordinary and 38 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: I want to revisit in cold Blood. Um I just 39 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: read I revisited Brideshead, revisited um oh, this is it. 40 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: I went on a deep dive of books that were 41 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: turned into motion pictures that I loved so and I 42 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: went in any even further in a kind of rabbit 43 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: hole of books about teachers inspiring students, if that makes sense. 44 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: So I recently reread or recently read for the first time, 45 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: To Serve with Love by e Our Braithwait, and it's 46 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: really great the novel because a movie only can show 47 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: so much, you only have an hour and a half 48 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: to tell the story. I revisited Muriel Sparks, Amazing, The 49 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: Prime of Miss Jane Brody. Oh, George Saunders, Lincoln in 50 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: the Bardo. I'm glad I have my books in my phone, 51 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: So there's those. Yeah. Oh, and I recently reread About 52 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: a Boy by Nick hornby Nick hornby the great novelist 53 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: and also lover of music, and had the great fortune 54 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: to meet Nick a few about a month ago, and 55 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: um and get a lot of play lists from him. 56 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: He's he, like me, has an addiction to music. And 57 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: I always say music is the beginning, middle, and end 58 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: of every day, and I think that's true for Nick 59 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: Hornby anyway, I have like ten great playlists from him. Okay, 60 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: one step at a time. You looked at your phone 61 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: for the books you read or reading. Do you read 62 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: digitally or do you read on paper? Well, I have 63 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: to say, at age sixty four, my eyesight isn't what 64 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: it was in my teens, nor my two empties. So um, yes, 65 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: I have taken to reading on you know, e reader 66 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: and I have a kindle, and then I'm obsessive about audiobooks. 67 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: I love to be read too. What can I say? 68 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: Who doesn't? Okay? And a lot of people are readers 69 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: who are sort of you know, inner focused and don't interact, 70 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: have some social anxiety, etc. What's your personality? Well, I 71 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: love connecting. That's why my novel is is kind of 72 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: That's one of the themes of the novel. You know 73 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 1: where we find ourselves in this planet we call Earth, 74 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: and you know what, somehow, as humans, I just think 75 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: we're meant to commune with each other. I love alone 76 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: time again, disappearing into fictions of all forms, but I 77 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: also crave human connection. And I'm fortunate to have a 78 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: great husband who just did all this tech support for me, 79 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: and two great sons, Jackson and sam Roach, and my 80 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: parents are still with me with us and um my 81 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: brothers and my sisters in arms, the other Bengals, and 82 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: so I feel very fortunate. But yeah, I think I think. 83 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: Though it's solitary to read a novel by yourself in 84 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: your room, I find connection there too. Okay, let's go 85 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: back to the book. So all of a sudden you 86 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: decided to start the book about seven eight years ago, 87 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: and you were furious. Furious is the right where be 88 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: really very active? So tell us what went down there? 89 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: I think that's correct. Use, I think that's a good 90 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: way of saying it. I was furiously engaged, furiously writing. 91 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: So what was that like? So I it took me 92 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: a while before I sat down and started the first sentence. 93 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: That is quite different from what the actual first sentence 94 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: now that you read if you buy the book. But 95 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: I was intrigued with a couple of books that I 96 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: had listened to the audio book, and in both cases 97 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: I had read and reread these two novels. One was 98 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte. The other was Rebecca by 99 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: Daphne de Mourier, and I was intrigued with the themes. 100 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: They both have this sort of gothic setting. It's both 101 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: In both cases, the protagonist is a person who feels 102 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: somewhat out of their element in a kind of Gothic setting. 103 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: I set my book in Oxford. The male love interest 104 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: is an Oxford professor. He's nothing like mister Rochester in 105 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: Jane Eyre because he's not twice my Jane's my character 106 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: Jane's age, nor is he rich or arrogant. But I 107 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: felt Rochester, if I was going to use that as inspiration, 108 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: was due for a little bit of an overhaul as 109 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: a character that a character like my Jane start whatever 110 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: fancy being involved with. And in Rebecca, interestingly, the protagonist 111 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: is unnamed. Rebecca is the name of Max de Winter, 112 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: the man that she marries and then moves to to 113 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: what was it Thornfield Hall? I think it was called Yeah, no, Yes, 114 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: I might have mixed up the names of the mansions 115 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: that these women find themselves in, But I just like 116 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: the themes that there are ghosts that haunt these two 117 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: women and sort of threaten whatever it is, their sense 118 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: of trust in their relationships. And you know, in some 119 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: ways love is as much about trust as anything else. 120 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: You know, you take a leap of faith when you 121 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: decide to be with someone in an intimate way, and 122 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: I just think, yeah, I think that those themes resonated 123 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: for me. I'm happy to say that I've been with 124 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: Jay for thirty years, so obviously we trust each other. 125 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: But when when I'm writing fiction, I you know, you're 126 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,359 Speaker 1: a story. Isn't that interesting if there's not some conflict 127 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: or peril or predicament, you know? So I wanted to 128 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: that sort of theme to be one of the things 129 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: that the character is grappling with. Can she trust him? 130 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: Can she trust herself? Tell us more about trusting yourself? Well, 131 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: I think for my character, we find her descending an elevator, 132 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: kind of tarted up in what she thinks is the 133 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: expected costume. Ten years after she wore that costume to 134 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: perform her her song, which was she really only had 135 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: one hit song at a bachelor party. She's at a 136 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: very low point in her life. She's been dumped and 137 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: cheated on. She's years out from when she had this 138 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: hit song. She put out an album following the hit 139 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: song that nobody really cared about. And yeah, she's she's 140 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: trying to figure out her life really and whether her 141 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: making music matters to anyone beside herself besides herself. So 142 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I know that I had a 143 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: lot of really great luck and in the eighties, but 144 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, I do relate to that feeling of growing older. 145 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: And I mean there used to be this idea that 146 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: pop stars there are no you can't be a pop 147 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: star in your thirties. Even I don't know if that's 148 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: still true. What do you think, Bob. That's a much 149 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: longer discussion because anything's possible. But by the same token, 150 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: in the Bengals heyday at MTV, everybody knew you if 151 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: you were a star. Everybody knows the Bengals hits. Today, 152 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: a record can be number one and nobody knows it, 153 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: irrelevant of the age of the person. So people can 154 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: be a little older. But it's not like it used 155 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: to be. No, I mean, think how young the Beatles 156 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: were when they started out, Like I think I remember. 157 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: It's something that I haven't really reflected on till recently, 158 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: even even for anyone in show biz. You know, there 159 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: is a sort of period where I noticed that a 160 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: lot of the winners of Best Supporting Actress or Best 161 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: Actress are often like around twenty seven, twenty eight years old. 162 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: I have not done the map. I have not I 163 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: don't have hard facts on this, but yeah, it's just 164 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: interesting and I think maybe I don't know, it's probably 165 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: true for any gender, but I think my character for 166 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: sure feels like at thirty three and with being down 167 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: on her luck in the music business, I feel like 168 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 1: she's ready to pack it in, like who's going to 169 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: want some thirty thirty something, you know, one hit? Wonder 170 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: like who's going to care? So I kind of I 171 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: was able to write that because even though, as I said, 172 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for the success that I've had, it 173 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: doesn't mean I haven't been disappointed in making music that 174 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily find its audience. Wow. Just going back to 175 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: something you said earlier about the Beatles. One of the 176 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: things it's dune me about the Beatles and Jackson Brown 177 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: being another example, they were so wise at a young age. 178 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: Now you listen to those records today and you go, 179 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: how did they know all that? I know that's so true. 180 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: I mean, the Beatles were so young and Jackson Brown 181 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: was so there's so much wisdom and sort of philosophical 182 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, badass road for lack of a better word, 183 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: going on in that young man's mind to be able 184 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: to do those early records, it's extraordinary. So you're having 185 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: these thoughts now of your peak and pop dam being 186 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: in the past. Is it something a feeling that's just 187 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: started now or did it start some time in the past. Well, 188 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: I look at myself when I was I can find 189 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: videos and whatnot of myself at age I guess thirty 190 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: one or two, when I was embarking on a solo 191 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: career and my first solo record came out on Columbia, 192 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: and I guess I wasn't too concerned at that age. 193 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: But as the years ticked by, and I was so 194 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: fortunate to make three covers records with Matthew Sweet and 195 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: I and I have a little yeah sometimes I lately 196 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: I've been questioning the idea of like a covers record 197 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: versus a not a record of original songs, because I 198 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: was thinking, like I'm digressing here, sorry, POSI is a 199 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: spice of life, Go forward, Okay, there we go. I 200 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: was realizing that I and you you probably could correct 201 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, because you know so much about 202 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: music history. But I don't think Elvis ever wrote a 203 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: single song. And he's Elvis. We know him and love him, 204 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: But do we say, oh, when you pick up an 205 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: Elvis record, do you go, this is such a great 206 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: covers record that Elvis did do I don't think I've 207 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: ever heard anybody characterize those records as cover records, Nor 208 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: do I think that Frank Sinatra, not that he's in 209 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: the pop side of things, those were all covers too, 210 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: am I right? Yeah, so there is suddenly, and I 211 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: do feel very proud of the songs that I've written, 212 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: co written almost always, if not always. Yeah, I mean 213 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: that's the thing about this novel, As they said, maybe 214 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: earlier or not, it's one of the first things I've 215 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: ever done alone, completely alone. But yeah, I don't know. 216 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. Back to your question, I might have drifted. No, Okay, 217 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: let's say you're out and about outside your own neighborhood 218 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: where you're known. Do people recognize you? No, Once in 219 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: a blue moon. Once in a blue moon. What popped 220 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:19,239 Speaker 1: into my mind was that, I think, because of Instagram 221 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: or something, a woman was at the supermarket and with 222 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: her two little kids, and I think that one of 223 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: the kids recognized me from somehow seeing something. But yeah, no, 224 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: I'm not recognized. I don't think. No. But in the 225 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: heyday of the Bengal success. You were recognized, right, you know, 226 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't have a lot of memories of that. 227 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: I think that we kind of when not on stage, 228 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: we were kind of we mostly disappeared under the radar somehow. 229 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: That was not something that happened that much. I don't 230 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: have memories. It was certainly not like what you see 231 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: in the movies with in Beatles movies, with being chased 232 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: or anything like that. It was nothing like that now. 233 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we had wonderful fans, and we had a 234 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: fusive fans, but um, yeah, no, I don't. I don't 235 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: remember us being unless we were together. I don't that 236 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: that would happen. If we were in a hotel and something, 237 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: some people would recognize us, but often not more often 238 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: than not. Well, is there a sense of loss from 239 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: what you had and the way it was and the 240 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: way it is now? No, I mean I can really 241 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: safely say that was a really intense decade of having 242 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: met the Peterson's in eighty one and decided that very night, 243 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: um that we would be a band. I've always described 244 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: it as we may as well run off that that 245 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: that next day or that evening to Vegas and gotten 246 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: married in an Elvis chapel because it was that fast 247 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: and that kind of impulsive. That's the best word I 248 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: have for it. You know. Obviously, Vicky and Debbie had 249 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: grown up together and they already had been playing in bands. 250 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: My only band experience was in a duo with David Roeback, 251 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: who went on to form Mazzy Star, and that was 252 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: our sound. Our sound was what you know, what he 253 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: ended up doing with Hope sandoval In, but that was 254 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: sort of the vibe of it. And Vicky and Debbie 255 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: were seasoned, you know, high school band kind of thing, 256 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: so they taught me a thing or two. And I 257 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: can still remember. I was living in the garage, the 258 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: converted garage of my parents' house, and they had brought 259 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: microphones and I went up to this foreign thing and 260 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: I went like, I blew on the microphone. They just 261 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: started laughing, like she's so green, she knows nothing, because 262 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I really didn't know anything about performing live 263 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: because everything David Rebeck and I did was just make 264 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: recordings in the apartment where we were living in. So 265 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: I was very unseasoned when it came to performing. So 266 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: I soon found out what it was like to Carter 267 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: gear around and hope that anybody showed up at these 268 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: kind of out of the way gigs that we had 269 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: initially in La Okay, if we go back to that heyday, 270 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: you didn't write every song, hit song and the Bengals 271 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: and the but the Bengals only had most of the 272 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: albums relatively successful. So my question is, how's your royalty situation? 273 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: That's so interesting? Um, I don't really think about it 274 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: that much. I assume somebody will tell me. I mean, 275 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: we get a lot of licensing requests, which always makes 276 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: me happy, not because of the money part, um, really 277 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: mostly because they're they're those songs are staying alive, so 278 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,959 Speaker 1: to speak, in when they're placed in movies, and I 279 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: love I love when someone wants to use um one 280 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: of our songs in a movie. So um, that's it's 281 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: more like the idea that the music is still relevant. 282 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it is to me, but it always makes 283 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: me smile that, you know, people still want to listen 284 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: to the songs um and or have them as part 285 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: of another work of art, you know, within a movie 286 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: or a television show. So I'm feeling pretty good about it. 287 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: Could you live on the income from the Bengals. Well, 288 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, I mean, I don't know, because I've 289 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: had this new career as a novelist, and also Universal 290 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: Pictures bought the books the book rights to my novel 291 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: and employed me to write the screenplay. And I'm happy 292 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: to say that I delivered the screenplay just very recently. 293 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: So I'm actually making in my sixties, actually more money 294 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: than I think I made as a musician. But maybe 295 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: that makes sense. The music business has always been hard 296 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: to figure out. It's a complicate. The way everything works 297 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: in the music business is complicated. I feel slightly ghost 298 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: talking that way though, about how surprising it was that 299 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: I had this other career. But anyway, so let's go 300 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: back to the book. You attempted a novel in the 301 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: last century. What literally inspired you to write this time? 302 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: Just a passion for books, for fiction, and just a 303 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: genuine passion as a reader myself and I had always 304 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: wanted to. And I was sitting there with my kids 305 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: and Jay one day on the heels of a screenplay 306 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: that I had just co written for Warner Brothers, of 307 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: all things, and it looked like it was just going 308 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: to be shelved. And I'd had this wonderful collaboration with 309 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: a guy named Larry Stuckey writing this kind of musical. 310 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: It was a musical movie. And I thought, what now? 311 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: And my kid, my older kid, Jackson, said, Mom, you've 312 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: always wanted to write in a novel. What are you 313 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: waiting for? And I said, what am I waiting for? 314 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: And then he kind of prodded me again. I started 315 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: to craft the story, as I told you, sort of 316 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: the themes and the story and the character might be it. 317 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: Should she be in showbiz? Should she be? It took 318 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: me a while to comerade. I originally thought maybe she'd 319 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: be an actress, and I thought, well, I know music, 320 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: I know what that feels like. I think I could 321 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: imbue the story and the character with with really rich 322 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: conflict and predicament because I've I've been there, done that. 323 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: So and then I just I just He said, about 324 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: a week later, stop talking about your story and just start, 325 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: and he like gave me this edict and I sort 326 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: of said and he said He even went on to 327 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: detail it. He said, Mom, I want you to wake 328 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: up tomorrow morning, open your computer, stare at that bank 329 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: blank page, and just start writing. And I was like done, 330 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. And I did, and I 331 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: sat down. I had no idea. My fingers just automatically typed. 332 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: And the first line was not the first line that 333 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: you see in the in the final novel, but it 334 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: was a first. It was a start. I wrote about 335 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: two pages and I went, Okay, I'm going to force 336 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 1: myself to read it to my family. I invited my 337 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: even my parents over. I wanted to know that I 338 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: had done it. It was like I planted my flag 339 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: in the sand and they were all and I wasn't 340 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: going to chicken out and I wasn't gonna you know, 341 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: I was going to make good on my promise. And 342 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: that was it. That was the beginning, and I never 343 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: looked back. How old was your son when he implored 344 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: you to do this? Okay, so it was I'm admitting 345 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: how long ago was It was twenty fifteen, so he 346 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: was twenty okay, so an adult. So you're talking about 347 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: having the story before you wrote. To what degree was 348 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: the story fleshed out before you put your fingers to keyboard. 349 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't fleshed out much at all. Really, I knew 350 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: I basically because I wrote a first person, narrated story. 351 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: What would happen would be I would almost disappear, I 352 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: would disappear out of myself, even though I was sort 353 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: of the god of her, you know, I was, I 354 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: was puppeting her, but I would just let her go 355 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: in my imagination and Jane start would just start talking. 356 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: And I found that she had a voice, and she 357 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: was sassy, and she was emotional, and she was occasionally unhinged, 358 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: but also a smart young lady, a smart thirty something girl. 359 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: She has tremendous compassion and empathy for other people. She's 360 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: a good person. And that mattered to me that the 361 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: characters that I wanted to fall in love, that they 362 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: though they have many flaws as all of us have, 363 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: that they actually were goodhearted human beings. And I wanted 364 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: her to go through her paces and her struggles, but 365 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I wanted I hoped 366 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: that she would find love and connection in her life. 367 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: So that was kind of those were important things. And 368 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: all of the characters started to just talk to me. 369 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: I know it was kind of a form of psychosis. 370 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. I've never asked other is about it, 371 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: but um, you kind of you kind of just hear 372 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: voices in your head tell that they would, they would 373 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: narrate their thoughts. And also, actually, I'm looking over here 374 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: at my phone. This is my new phone. I had 375 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: an old, older phone when I was writing the book. 376 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: I would just try to bottle what they were saying immediately, 377 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: so I had I would wake up in the middle 378 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: of the night. I always kept a pen and pad 379 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: by the bed during the day. If my characters start 380 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: talking to me, I would I would. I learned the 381 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: hard way. Don't assume this great thing that they said 382 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: you're going to remember. I would just capture it on 383 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: my phone. I would text myself or email myself at 384 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: thousands of texts and emails to myself. Okay, they're different 385 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: styles of writing. Some people plot it all out and 386 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: then lay it all down. One of the things I 387 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: love about writing is you never know where you're really 388 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: going in your surprise, did you learn things without even 389 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: realizing and you look at the paper, what was your 390 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 1: experience it was? It was kind of similar to that. Um, 391 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: I didn't have it all plotted out, and I wonder 392 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: if I probably should have. But even in the eleventh hour, 393 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: I remember I was sitting there about to do send 394 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: my editor and this is cut to years later, Little 395 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: Brown and we you know, wants the book. I take 396 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: their offer. I have finally an actual editor. I commune 397 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: with her. Revisions happen. But at the eleventh hour I 398 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: was I had a sudden thought, well, actually, Jay, Jay 399 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: took a look at at a little thing that I did. 400 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,239 Speaker 1: I asked for him to clap eyes on something in 401 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: the in the eleventh hour, and he said, it's repetitive. 402 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: He gave me the golden nugget and I didn't really 403 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: want to hear it. I mean, I was due to 404 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: hit send on this draft. It was really right, like 405 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: the final thing. And apart from catching typos or something 406 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: like that that they sometimes they have people that because 407 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: you read these sentences over and over again, you stop, 408 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: you stop seeing a typo. But I sat there and 409 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: I did this revision and my hands were kind of shaking, 410 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: and it was like an emotional part of the book, 411 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: and I knew that it was working because I was 412 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: crying a little bit for Jane. I was crying tears 413 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: of anxiety and tears of joy all mixed together. And 414 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: I thought, okay, yeah, if I whenever I'm triggered like that, 415 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: it means something, and then I just hit send and 416 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: then that's what That's what ended up being in that spot. 417 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: It was really eleventh hour. Okay, So the first draft 418 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: took I mean yeah, first run a completion to Cowlong 419 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: several years, several years. I didn't. I had one friend. 420 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: It was very solitary. But I had my best childhood 421 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: friend who was going through some hard times and I 422 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: had this behemoth draft. It's like this thick. It had 423 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: a whole section that's not in the book anymore. But 424 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: she is a lover of fiction and it was something 425 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: we had shared as kids. But we were always talking 426 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: about what books were reading. And she she's an aspiring 427 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: writer herself. She would schlep over to my house and 428 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: she just wanted me to read to her. So I said, 429 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: well you, I'll read you my book. She's I said, 430 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: it's not finished, it's this is the current draft. Said go, 431 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: and she would come over and I would read it 432 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: aloud and act out the parts as best that I could, 433 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: and she was It was like a It was like 434 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: a healing thing for her to just to be read to. 435 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: And I needed to say the words out loud. I 436 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: don't know if novelists all do this, but it's important 437 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: to say the words out loud to see if the 438 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 1: dialogue feels right and to see if it makes sense. 439 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: So I don't know if everybody does it, but the 440 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: fact that my friend wanted me to read her my 441 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: early draft, I think I learned a lot from that, actually, 442 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: And what do you think you learned? Well? I learned 443 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: that the story was affecting her, which was very important. 444 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: I learned that this giant section of the book needed 445 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: not to be in the book, that it was just 446 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: something that I had written as an exploration. And I 447 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: love it and I want to I want to rescue 448 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: it and resurrect it for my next book because it 449 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: was really fun. One of the characters, which is the 450 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: character of Alfie, figured prominently in it. But yeah, I 451 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: learned a heck of a lot. The act of reading 452 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: aloud was useful, and I ended up reading my audio 453 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: book myself. I knew that I had to. I knew 454 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: that no one else would understand the inflection, and quite 455 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: as I told you, I hear the voices in my head, 456 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: so I did my best to read them as I 457 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: heard them. Except then I found this, I found myself 458 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: at this moment where it's like, I'm not good at 459 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: British accents and there's like five different kind of British 460 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: accents in my book. And the Jane Eyre that had 461 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: blown my mind was read by a wonderful British actress 462 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: named Juliette Stevenson. So so many of my dreams came true, 463 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: like in this process because I started to I had 464 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: listened to Juliet read to me some of my favorite books, 465 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: not just Jane Eyre, but there's a book by Sarah Waters, 466 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 1: a wonderful Irish novelist called The Paying Guests. And I 467 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: had studied certain books, certain books while while I was reading. 468 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: I want to say, whilst I was reading, I would 469 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: reread certain books over and over and over again, and 470 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: they just were like it was like a tutorial for me. 471 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: And so I reached out to every single person I 472 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: knew who might know Juliet Stevenson to see if she 473 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: would do the British voices in my audiobook. And guess what, 474 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: I just checked audible dot com wait wait for it, 475 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: and she's listed. She did it. I found out that 476 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: she did it, but also to see it, I can't 477 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: find it on here, but to see it on listed 478 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: on my Audible for my book narrated by Susannah Hoffs 479 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: and Juliet Stevenson. Wow, dream come true. M. We live 480 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: in a society where most people can't even complete things. 481 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: How did you keep yourself going over a two year process? 482 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: Well it was actually more than two years, but yes, 483 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: how did I keep myself going? Just the passion to 484 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: do it? It was escapist for me, the writing you 485 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: mean in particular, yes, yeah, um, wanting to hang out 486 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: with my characters. M. Music really really really triggered all 487 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: these It was like the juice. It was like knocking 488 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: back a whiskey if that's your thing. Like I would 489 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: just get like excited music. And that's why I posted 490 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: the playlist of the book on my Spotify Spotify people 491 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: go check it out, but also, um, and check out 492 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,239 Speaker 1: my new music on Spotify. Sorry, it's so hard to 493 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: connect with the music side of things right now, but UM, 494 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: I hope that that will happen. But yeah, I'm just 495 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: looking at my my Spotify posted the playlist on there 496 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: and most of the chapter headings, not all, but when 497 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: whenever I could use a song title as a chop 498 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: as a chapter heading I did for music Lovers. Okay, 499 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: so you finished the book? To what degree did you rewrite? 500 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: Some people the original is just you know, code hangers 501 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: where they hang everything. I'm the opposite. It's pretty close 502 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: to done when I finished the first draft. What was 503 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: your experience, Well, there were there were so many drafts 504 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: that leading up to the to the draft that my 505 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: my best friend who's a novelist, Margaret, stole Pride from 506 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: my reticent grasp I guess, I would say. And she 507 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: read it very quickly and said, I don't know, said 508 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: a lot of really nice things and that she was 509 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: extremely moved by it, and she's she insisted I get 510 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: it to a literary agent asap. And I said, oh, well, 511 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: do you have someone in mind? And she said, well, 512 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: I think my agent, Sarah Burn would love it. And 513 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: so on my sixtieth birthday, when it was pissing down 514 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: rain in La, I was due to have lunch with 515 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: Belinda Carlyle, who I love from the Go Gos, a 516 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: Bengal and a Go Go had planned lunch and a 517 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: kind of a birthday lunch for me, and I asked 518 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: my son, Jackson, the same kid of mine that insisted 519 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: I write the novel and all that. He said, Mom, 520 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: I'll drive it to FedEx. I was like, that's the 521 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: best birthday present a gal ever got. Thank you. And 522 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: so Sarah got the manuscript the next day. We did 523 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: an overnight. She read it very quickly. I was at 524 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: a friend's house. This is pre pandemic, and he had 525 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: a little movie night thing on Sundays. I tried to 526 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: put it out of my mind that Sarah was reading 527 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: my manuscript. And I just sat down with everybody and 528 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 1: they just put on the movie that we were watching. 529 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: When I had the stink or they were just about 530 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: to turn on the movie, the instinct, Well, maybe I 531 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: should check my email, And there was the email from 532 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,959 Speaker 1: Sarah saying, I'm actually near you in La. I flew 533 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: in from New York. Can we meet for coffee tomorrow? 534 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: And I was actually I couldn't because I was recording 535 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: my Bright Lights record. At that point I had started 536 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: piecing together recording session. Sorry, this is a rambling story, 537 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: Keep going, keep going. But I couldn't meet with her. 538 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: So she said, I said, but I'm due to come 539 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 1: to New York in a couple of weeks, and she said, great, 540 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: let's meet at my office. So Jay and I had 541 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: planned this trip to New York. I get there. I 542 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 1: actually wore a suit and I walked from where we 543 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: were staying in Midtown to Sarah Burne's office and I 544 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: kind of cried a little bit on the way. There 545 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: was very cold, because I thought, I'm really, this is 546 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: really happening. I'm meeting a literary agent in New York 547 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: City at her office. And then she took me out 548 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: to lunch. I met the other her cohort at the office. 549 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: They were amazing. One of them, David Gerner, it's the 550 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: Gern Company, said I love Hero Takes a Fall. I 551 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: was like, check, you had me at Hello. It was like, 552 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: what you know that song? Nobody mentions that song? And 553 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: then um, Sarah at Burns and I went to the 554 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: restaurant where the literary where the book people did the 555 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: book community gather their watering hole. I was dying. I 556 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: was just dying. It was so awesome. And we talked 557 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: about the book and she told me which things she 558 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: loved the most and which things that you know, just 559 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: we just started the conversation and it just went from there. Yeah, 560 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: and then eventually we you know, we we got a 561 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: Little Brown picked up the book anyway, So did she 562 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: say at that first meeting she wanted to do it? Oh? Yeah, 563 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 1: I mean she wanted to meet me. Even before that, 564 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: she wanted to she was going to stay in La 565 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: maybe another day because she's based in New York to 566 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: meet me. So she was very enthusiastic right from the 567 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: get go. And who knew my friend Margaret. I mean 568 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: she just I was so afraid to share the book 569 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: with anybody. It was such a it was such a 570 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: blissful journey solo. But I just wasn't. I just kept 571 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: wanting to make it better and better, and you know, 572 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, I was a little resistant. And how 573 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: did it end up at Little Brown? Well, so Sarah 574 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: then finally came the day where I worked on some revisions. 575 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: And Sarah, because she had edited The Lovely Bones and 576 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: many other books and came from editing, had just beautiful 577 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: ideas and suggestions. At one point, my book was all 578 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: in present tense, for example, and there was a moment 579 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: where she suggested trying past tense and I'm like, okay, 580 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 1: you know, and I did. So there was a lot 581 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: of learning on it because my friend Margaret's and novelists. 582 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: She read the book a lot of times for me, Sarah, 583 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: I just had a few good compadres early on after 584 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: years of you know, hammering away at it. So then 585 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: it came time, She's like, we're ready. I sent in 586 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: a draft. I worked really hard on it. It was 587 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: like I would send these drafts at like eleven fifty 588 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,399 Speaker 1: nine PM when they were due for her to wake 589 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: up to the draft, you know that she needed from me. 590 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: And so she said, we're ready, and she's like, I'm 591 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,479 Speaker 1: I'm going to go out to publishing houses and she said, 592 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: don't be alarmed if we don't hear anything for it. 593 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: They take they need to read it and they sometimes 594 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: take a little bit of time people traveling. I was like, okay, 595 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna be so calm. I'm taking this advice 596 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: from you. And like about Thursday or Wednesday of that 597 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 1: day of that week, while I was waiting, I couldn't 598 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: help it, and I called Sarah and I said, I'm 599 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: just calling, just calling. I hope everything's okay. I know 600 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be tuning all of this out, but 601 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: I am admitting to you that I'm just kind of 602 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: pacing around aimlessly in my house, wringing my hands and UM, yeah, 603 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: just let me know if you hear anything. And then 604 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: sure enough, the beginning of the following week, she was 605 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: starting to get the reads were in and she was 606 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: starting to get a lot of interest. And then there 607 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: was a Right around that time, I got a text 608 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: from her saying that the incredible editor Judy Klain, who 609 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: had edited I mean so many books Julie and Julia, well, 610 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: we could look it up. I'm you know, where'd you 611 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: go Bernadette for examp couple incredible books. She was reading 612 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: it and my friend Margaret and I were having coffee, 613 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: and Margaret started crying. She goes, do you know about 614 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: Judy Claine? I said, I know nothing. I know the 615 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: music business, I don't know the book business. I don't 616 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: know who the people at the book business are. And 617 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: she said she was so happy for me that Judy 618 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,399 Speaker 1: was reading them and really enjoying the book. So it 619 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: turned out that a wonderful young editor, Helen O'Hare at 620 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: Judy shared the book with Helen and said, I think 621 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: this might be up your alley, and then Helen read it, 622 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: and then things were likely went really really fast. In fact, 623 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: they made me a preemptive offer, and it actually had 624 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: a ticking clock on it, and I just Sarah Burns 625 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: happened to fly in from New York that day and 626 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: we just I had to come to a decision before 627 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: it was like five pm LA time, eight pm New 628 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: York time. I had to say yes or no. And 629 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:18,280 Speaker 1: I said yes, okay? And how long from that verbalization 630 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: of yes until the book came out? So that would 631 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: have been May of twenty twenty one, So we were 632 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: right in the midst of the pandemic. And so now 633 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: the book is coming out, and I was told that 634 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,280 Speaker 1: it would take way longer than one expects. Yeah. So yeah, 635 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,879 Speaker 1: So they got the book around that time. So May 636 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one. I did revisions, but they already 637 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: knew bye bye bye. A year later it had been 638 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: any revisions that had done had apart from odd type 639 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: post that snuck their way through. Um, it was pretty 640 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,439 Speaker 1: much done. But then there's that build up to pub date, 641 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,479 Speaker 1: you know, and they and they said pub date would 642 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: be uh, it's just coming up April fourth, twenty twenty three. 643 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,919 Speaker 1: There's a long journey for books. There's and there's kind 644 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: of the way that they set it up. Yeah, so 645 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: it's good because it gave me a chance to um 646 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: read the audio book and a lot of other things. 647 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: There was a lot of steps in the pre promotion. 648 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: There was quite a bit of pre promotion, some of 649 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 1: it in house with Little Brown. Okay, can you tell 650 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: us more about external pre promotion and how the whole 651 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:48,760 Speaker 1: process of promotion uh looks visa v. The music business? Well, 652 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: I mean, then then I met the wonderful Nicole Dewey 653 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: and Carla who you know that because it was Carla 654 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: I had met on the Bright Lights record through my 655 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: managers Russell Carter and Kathy Lyons and Adrian Carter that 656 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: the team there at ar camp, and so I already 657 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 1: was just so happy to be to be united with 658 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,240 Speaker 1: Carla because she has such a great love of music. 659 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: And actually I insisted she read She's I don't know 660 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 1: if Carlo's listening her. If she's not, she'll hear this 661 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: on the podcast if it stays in. But I insisted 662 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: that Carla read John Updike's Couples, which is one of 663 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: my favorite books. So even even when I first Yeah, 664 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: so I'm digressing, I'm all over the place here, but yeah, 665 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: so what was your question again, sorry, any more coffee. 666 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: It was precisely what you wanted to know. The timeline. 667 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 1: Two things. The process of pre promotion, I know, like 668 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: if you go on Amazon and these other places, books 669 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 1: are sent to people pre publishing day, trying to build 670 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 1: a buzz. Oh yeah. And I was also interested in 671 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: the process your experience relatives your experience of promoting music. Okay, yeah, 672 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: So the process with books is that they send out galleys, 673 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: so they're not the final, final, final, final version. But 674 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,800 Speaker 1: um and and there's different aspects to it, like there's 675 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 1: a there's a tradition with books to get blurbs from blurbs, 676 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:29,280 Speaker 1: quotes from other novelists. So um, that started to happen, 677 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: and there was some element of having to write letters 678 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: to people. Um and and then I was so happy 679 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 1: when um Tom Perata, who I worship his novels, and 680 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: had the great fortune to meet him years back when 681 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: I was on the road with Matthew Sweet doing our 682 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 1: covers records, and um he came to He and his 683 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: wife Mary came to a few of the shows and 684 00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: and so Tom read my manus script. At that point, 685 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: it was still the printed out pages nothing fancy or 686 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,720 Speaker 1: bound early reading copy or anything like that. Not before 687 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,239 Speaker 1: the galleys. He read a version on a coast to 688 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: coast flight from LA to New York, which is really 689 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,320 Speaker 1: fitting for the story. If you've read the book, there's 690 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: a plane scene that factors really heavily in it, and 691 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 1: he really loved it, and he stepped right up and 692 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: wrote the most incredible blurb. I also shared it with 693 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,240 Speaker 1: other novelist friends like Helen Fielding, who's written the wonderful 694 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 1: Bridget Jones books and is really a wonderful friend and writer. 695 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: And then then I would reach out to other people, 696 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 1: and Little Brown had some people that they thought would 697 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,760 Speaker 1: would be interested in the book as well who's stepped 698 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: up and took the time to read it and to 699 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 1: you know, put a little stamp of endorsement with a 700 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: blurb of what they liked about it. So there was that. 701 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,879 Speaker 1: It was a busy time in the beginning of doing 702 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: interviews and starting to think about coming out of my 703 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: my hell my not my hell my, my whole, my 704 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: cloistered life, pandemic life, being just sitting in a little 705 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: room writing all the time, to come out and be 706 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,320 Speaker 1: more part of engaging with the outside world with getting 707 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 1: feedback and so on. Okay, mentioned Tom Parada. Did you 708 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 1: ever read his book to Wishbones? Oh? Yeah. In fact, 709 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: I just did a piece for the I just did 710 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: a by the book for the New York Times, which 711 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,359 Speaker 1: is a running piece where they talked to novelists and 712 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: about you know, they post a set of questions, and um, 713 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: there was one of the questions I'm paraphrasing here about 714 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 1: what books or what authors who write about music? Um, 715 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: do you love and and and the Wishbones was? I mean, 716 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: I think I've read every every Tom Parata book, but 717 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 1: I really loved reading The Wishbones because anyone who's ever 718 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: started a band, you know, understands that story. Okay, how 719 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,879 Speaker 1: did the book end up at Universal? Okay? So um. 720 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: Early on in the process, Sarah Burns connected me with 721 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,280 Speaker 1: someone who happened to be a friend. And she didn't 722 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 1: realize that Sylvie rabina who's who reps Tom Parata. As 723 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: it happens, she's their agent. And I went to high 724 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 1: school with Sylvie Rabineau's husband, Steve Rabinou. In fact, I 725 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: think my first boy crush was on Steve, and the 726 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,880 Speaker 1: first time I ever went on a date with anybody. 727 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 1: I was very late. Bloomer was with Steve and we 728 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: went to I think it was Alice's restaurant in Westwood. 729 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: It was, it was, it was. So it's so funny 730 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,920 Speaker 1: that I've known him all these years and I have 731 00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: this sort of awkward first date story. But so Sylvie 732 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: read read a draft of the book and said, oh, 733 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,640 Speaker 1: I want to rep this for a movie adaptation, a 734 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,319 Speaker 1: film adaptation. So early on there was this idea of 735 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 1: a film adaptation, which made sense to me because it 736 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 1: was really like writing the book was like watching the 737 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: movie of the book. It was just an inside my 738 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 1: brain is like a screen would come down and I'd 739 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: see the characters and then I'd just like write what 740 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,439 Speaker 1: they were saying and where they were and what their 741 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: expressions were, etc. So it did make sense to me, 742 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 1: and it was like deep a deep down dream beyond 743 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:41,160 Speaker 1: writing the novel that there would be a film adaptation 744 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: of it, because I mean, especially after all the years 745 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 1: writing writing screenplays, co writing screenplays with people, but wondering 746 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,920 Speaker 1: if anything would ever happen. So yeah, So now then 747 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,399 Speaker 1: Liza Chasin and Bruno Pop and Drea teamed up their 748 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,959 Speaker 1: incredible movie producers, women that I've known through Jay. And 749 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 1: then um, I started to do a bunch of zooms. 750 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: It was still all zooms, as it still is to 751 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,680 Speaker 1: some extent, and not not in person meetings, and I 752 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,920 Speaker 1: met with all kinds of streaming you know, Netflix, different, 753 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to name all the names, but and 754 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: then then, um, one day I got my list of 755 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: who I was zooming with and it was Eric Buyers 756 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:31,040 Speaker 1: at Universal. Jay walked in the door and he said, 757 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: I said, Jay, guess who I'm zooming with today Universal Pictures, 758 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,560 Speaker 1: and it's Eric Buyers. And he just stopped in his 759 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: tracks and he said, Eric Buyers and Universal, those those 760 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,040 Speaker 1: are my favorite that that is, those are my favorites. 761 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 1: You know that Eric is my favorite executive in all 762 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,520 Speaker 1: of Hollywood. I probably shouldn't say these things because I'm 763 00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,880 Speaker 1: sure he loves other ones too, but he just and 764 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,280 Speaker 1: then he said something like, wait, Eric Buyers read your book, 765 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,280 Speaker 1: said apparently, And then I zoomed with him and Liza 766 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,719 Speaker 1: and Bruna and it was just again it was like 767 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 1: little Brown. They just were like, boom, We're in. So, 768 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes it's like I met Janna blind date. 769 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,560 Speaker 1: Maybe it was that kind of thing. I'd just been 770 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:21,800 Speaker 1: lucky that way. When the chemistry's there, it's just as there. Okay, 771 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,320 Speaker 1: tell me about being a late bloomer. A late bloomer, 772 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: Oh you mean in love? Yes, Okay, Well I was 773 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,240 Speaker 1: because I don't know, I was one of those kids 774 00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:39,359 Speaker 1: who just was a late bloomer. I just, you know, 775 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,279 Speaker 1: right when everybody else was turning into like sex goddesses 776 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: in high school, I still was like sneaking in on 777 00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 1: the kids tickets at the movie theaters. Remember the kids 778 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:56,960 Speaker 1: tickets of course, So you know, I mean it's I 779 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: was surprised when the Bengals thing happened that I somehow 780 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,640 Speaker 1: cast off my like the girl on the schoolyard who 781 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,920 Speaker 1: looked like she was in a couple grades back, you know, 782 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,759 Speaker 1: like not because of her intelligence, but because she just 783 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:18,040 Speaker 1: looked really tiny. Um, I'm a small Jewish woman. What 784 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,359 Speaker 1: could I say? Not that being Judaish has anything to 785 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 1: do with it, But my identity was not. I was 786 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,480 Speaker 1: not like if you go to school, high school at 787 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,640 Speaker 1: Pali High, it's like fast Times at Ridgemont High. Like 788 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 1: there's the cool kids and then there's like the bookish kids, 789 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,040 Speaker 1: or like the music drama kids that are in this 790 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,879 Speaker 1: little subset. I was in the music drama kids, but 791 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,400 Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't a cool kid. I wasn't a 792 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,560 Speaker 1: surfer girl. That's that's what it was back then. So 793 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,320 Speaker 1: what was your experience in college? Well, that just broke 794 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,719 Speaker 1: open all the doors, didn't it. I mean, I go 795 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:59,400 Speaker 1: up to UC Berkeley, and I flew up there by myself. 796 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,120 Speaker 1: There it's the seventies. Nobody's parents came and unpacked their 797 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,200 Speaker 1: betting for them. It was like, here's your plane ticket. 798 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 1: I flew up, I land in Oakland, I get off 799 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,000 Speaker 1: the thing. I have this giant Duffel bag. I get 800 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,960 Speaker 1: off the plane and I get to take the bus 801 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 1: to Berkeley, and I'm literally on Telegraph Avenue. Have there's 802 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,080 Speaker 1: no iPhones, there's no map Quest, there's no you know. 803 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 1: I just dragged this Duffel bag towards the dorm and 804 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,520 Speaker 1: I'm like immediately in love with Berkeley. I'm like the 805 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,480 Speaker 1: seventies hippie chicken me was going crazy. All these bookstores, 806 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,840 Speaker 1: all these cool coffee houses. But I am am dragging 807 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,080 Speaker 1: this thing that was too heavy. And suddenly these two 808 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,759 Speaker 1: guys come over and say, can we help you with that, 809 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,040 Speaker 1: and I'm like looking over my shoulder, like you mean me, 810 00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,280 Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, yeah, you're struggling with that duffel bag. 811 00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:05,560 Speaker 1: And I thought, they don't know me. They don't know that. 812 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 1: They don't know the me I think of myself from 813 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:13,319 Speaker 1: high school. They don't know that. So I went, oh, why, yes, 814 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: you can help me, and they dried. They took my 815 00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,080 Speaker 1: bag into the dorm and helped me, and I thought, 816 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,120 Speaker 1: I had I can start, I can start fresh. Yeah 817 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 1: it was weird, and did you continue down that path 818 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,840 Speaker 1: of being a different person, Well, it wasn't. It was 819 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,799 Speaker 1: an invitation to be this other person and to realize 820 00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:42,400 Speaker 1: that the slate was blank and I could, yeah, I 821 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,040 Speaker 1: could start this chapter, like really turned the page and 822 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:52,920 Speaker 1: start this new chapter. And you know, Berkeley was so bohemian, 823 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,120 Speaker 1: and you know, it wasn't like my high school was 824 00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:02,560 Speaker 1: one of those sort of giant kind of I don't know, 825 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:07,080 Speaker 1: high school was hard. Yeah I did. Let's just say 826 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,920 Speaker 1: that it was the beginning of a brand new chapter. 827 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,319 Speaker 1: And I don't want to say a new me, but 828 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 1: a new confidence in being me. That's one way to 829 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 1: put it. And tell me the circumstances of the blind 830 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:26,280 Speaker 1: date with Jay oh Okay cut through later later, later, later. 831 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,600 Speaker 1: It was November twenty second, nineteen ninety one. I had 832 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,399 Speaker 1: been yet again working on a creative writing project with 833 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,759 Speaker 1: my boyfriend at the time, Donovan Leech, who was the 834 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,960 Speaker 1: son of or my ex boyfriend. Sorry, of course I 835 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't be going on. We had already broken up, but 836 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:52,160 Speaker 1: we were still friends and still are. So Donovan leached 837 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,840 Speaker 1: the son of the singer Donovan, and a guy named 838 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,520 Speaker 1: Mark Stern, and I don't remember how I was connected 839 00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:04,360 Speaker 1: to Mark, but we were writing sort of a twenty something, 840 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,279 Speaker 1: like a melrose Place thing before Melrose Place. It was 841 00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,680 Speaker 1: a kind of a take on the series thirty something 842 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,920 Speaker 1: that I loved. Edswick and Marshall Herskovitz, who I got 843 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:22,440 Speaker 1: to know over the years too, had written it. And anyway, 844 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,759 Speaker 1: Mark Stern, I said, who, who can you invite me 845 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,160 Speaker 1: to a party? I'm single, I don't know how to date. 846 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,680 Speaker 1: This is before apps anyway, not that I would have 847 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,880 Speaker 1: used apps maybe, I don't know. That wasn't something that 848 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,080 Speaker 1: was available to people then. It was more like word 849 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,880 Speaker 1: of mouth. And he said, well, I know this film 850 00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:54,680 Speaker 1: professor at USC who has written some stuff at our company. 851 00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,799 Speaker 1: He's a screenwriter, but his sort of day job is 852 00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:04,200 Speaker 1: he teaches at USC and I went, film person, film professor, 853 00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,000 Speaker 1: not rock star or not I mean, not person from 854 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,800 Speaker 1: the music business, not person exactly. Not an actor or 855 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: not a sorry i'm babbling. Not an actor, not a musician. 856 00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:21,160 Speaker 1: This sounds good because I like academics, and I like academias. 857 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,920 Speaker 1: So I get. I'm told where the appointed restaurant is 858 00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,799 Speaker 1: and what time to be there, and I show up. 859 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:34,040 Speaker 1: I go up to the host as she said, oh, 860 00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,080 Speaker 1: because it was meant to be a dinner party, let 861 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:40,160 Speaker 1: me just put it that way. I'm sorry, a more coffee. 862 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,160 Speaker 1: It wasn't a one on one date. I didn't want 863 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:44,839 Speaker 1: to go on a one on one date. I wanted 864 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,280 Speaker 1: to just be invited to it, like a dinner party 865 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,600 Speaker 1: of some sort, because I didn't want the pressure of 866 00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 1: it a single date. So I she said, oh, the 867 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,600 Speaker 1: first guest is here, and she points just as Jay 868 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,760 Speaker 1: is sitting at the bar and the chairs wheels around, 869 00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,319 Speaker 1: and I like, look at him for one second, and 870 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,480 Speaker 1: I don't know why I thought this, but I thought 871 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:10,719 Speaker 1: he looks kind and he looks trustworthy. Ding ding to 872 00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,680 Speaker 1: both those boxes. It was like, those are two qualities 873 00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,440 Speaker 1: that I just really want in a person. So then 874 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 1: he walks me with the hostess, walks us to the table. 875 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,200 Speaker 1: Were the first ones there, and suddenly I feel this 876 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 1: strange feeling of someone helping me with my jacket, and 877 00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:35,640 Speaker 1: even though this is nineteen ninety one, I'm thinking, wait, 878 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,960 Speaker 1: what's happening. He's such a gentleman. I not that I 879 00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,720 Speaker 1: cared about those kind of old school manners, but like 880 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,160 Speaker 1: it was, it was just kind of notable in that 881 00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,880 Speaker 1: moment that he was helping me take off my jacket 882 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,000 Speaker 1: and he pulled out my chair. I was like, who 883 00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:56,200 Speaker 1: the hell is this a person? And then we proceeded. 884 00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 1: The other people showed up, except none of the three 885 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,080 Speaker 1: other women who were supposed to be there for this 886 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:06,040 Speaker 1: so called dinner party showed up. Mark Stern's wife was 887 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,960 Speaker 1: not you know, she was under the weather, had a 888 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,080 Speaker 1: cold or something. And the two other women who were 889 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,440 Speaker 1: supposed to come to the party didn't show, so it 890 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:19,200 Speaker 1: was just me, Mark Stern, the host, and bachelor number one, 891 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:25,800 Speaker 1: two and three, And so I was like, okay, but 892 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,040 Speaker 1: I really only had eyes for Jay. I liked him immediately, 893 00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:34,000 Speaker 1: not because of the especially the polite things. Those just 894 00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,760 Speaker 1: struck me and stayed with me all these years. But 895 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:41,400 Speaker 1: because we had such a good conversation, and I loved 896 00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,840 Speaker 1: that he was, you know, a screenwriter, and that he 897 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,480 Speaker 1: loved movies as much as I did and was obsessed 898 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:53,240 Speaker 1: with movies and stories. And at one point we shared 899 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 1: where we went to college and when he went to Stanford. 900 00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:00,440 Speaker 1: And I don't know why. My parents went to Ivy 901 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,520 Speaker 1: League schools, and so it was always a big thing 902 00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,280 Speaker 1: going to college in my family. My brother went to 903 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,240 Speaker 1: Yale Um. And so when he said that he went 904 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,520 Speaker 1: to Stanford, it was like the guy at the at 905 00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,640 Speaker 1: the fair who goes tries to hit the thing went. 906 00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,439 Speaker 1: There was a little ding. I thought, Oh, I love this. 907 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,880 Speaker 1: He's kind of you know, he's into academics, and you know, 908 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I kind of for him. 909 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,720 Speaker 1: You fell for him? Was he instantly into you? I 910 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,840 Speaker 1: don't think so. No, I don't think he was a 911 00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:37,560 Speaker 1: good question, Bob. I don't think he. I think he thought, 912 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,959 Speaker 1: well that was interesting, she's nice. We had a great, 913 00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:47,640 Speaker 1: great conversation. But all I know is that, um, how 914 00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,600 Speaker 1: did I get his number? Let's see, I might have 915 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,240 Speaker 1: given him my number. I was. I was the rockman 916 00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,480 Speaker 1: roll Chick at that time. I guess I think I 917 00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: gave him my number. And then I got in my car, 918 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,840 Speaker 1: which at the time had the hard wired phone in it, 919 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, not there were no cell phones, I don't 920 01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,720 Speaker 1: think back in ninety one, and I called my mom. 921 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,760 Speaker 1: This is very telling, and I said, Mom, I don't 922 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:21,160 Speaker 1: know why I feel this way that I just think, yeah, 923 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,640 Speaker 1: I think I've met somebody that I don't know. I 924 01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:28,120 Speaker 1: think this is might work here. And so I was right. 925 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:33,120 Speaker 1: Jay called initially it was right around Thanksgiving, and he said, oh, 926 01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to visit my parents in Albuquerque, but you know, 927 01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,520 Speaker 1: let's talk again. And then then he dropped off the 928 01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,520 Speaker 1: face of the earth. He just finally. I paced around 929 01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,320 Speaker 1: for a while and I called Mark Stern and said, 930 01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,320 Speaker 1: what's the deal, because he hasn't called you yet. He said, 931 01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to give him a nudge. So he gave 932 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,120 Speaker 1: him a nudge and then and then we finally went 933 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,160 Speaker 1: to see a movie together, and then we went to 934 01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,480 Speaker 1: see another movie together. And weirdly, the two movies that 935 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:09,680 Speaker 1: we saw were both very um One was at the 936 01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:14,640 Speaker 1: Black Robe, so it was about a missionary going to 937 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,320 Speaker 1: somewhere that I can't remember. We'd have to look this up, 938 01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,480 Speaker 1: and it was all this sort of like I didn't 939 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,480 Speaker 1: know the content. It was. There was a lot of 940 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:29,360 Speaker 1: like sexy content in these two movies about missionaries going 941 01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 1: to places. The other one I think was called at 942 01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,680 Speaker 1: Play at the Field of the You know, I'll send 943 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,920 Speaker 1: you the names of these movies. I can't. I don't 944 01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:47,400 Speaker 1: want to get it wrong. Okay. Had there been any 945 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:53,960 Speaker 1: long term romances before Jay Um? Yeah, there was. There 946 01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,760 Speaker 1: was a long term romance in the Paisley Underground with 947 01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:05,400 Speaker 1: Louis Gutierrez who was in the band. Um. Yeah, there 948 01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,000 Speaker 1: was that, and and um, let me think back, there 949 01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:14,840 Speaker 1: was quite a long mace with Lewis, like starting in 950 01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,120 Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty two or three when we when we 951 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,880 Speaker 1: when that scene was really happening. And then after that 952 01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:27,400 Speaker 1: there was a long along romance with Donovan Leech, the 953 01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,200 Speaker 1: son of Donovan, And prior to that, I'd had a 954 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:35,280 Speaker 1: relationship with David Roebeck. They were all they're all musicians. 955 01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,000 Speaker 1: That's right now that they're doing the math on that. Okay, 956 01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,720 Speaker 1: that maybe that and no no offense to any of 957 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:46,040 Speaker 1: the musicians, but maybe that's why maybe that collective amount 958 01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:50,200 Speaker 1: of relationships there um added up to me thinking maybe 959 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: maybe not a musician. I don't know. But also, um, 960 01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,600 Speaker 1: there were a few actors and I and yeah, there 961 01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:02,880 Speaker 1: are actors and musicians up until Jay. What was it 962 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,520 Speaker 1: like being famous and on the road as a woman, 963 01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:12,120 Speaker 1: both in terms of romance and me too? Stuff? Ah, 964 01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:17,400 Speaker 1: interesting and say it again on the road? Okay? You 965 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,960 Speaker 1: know in that era, certainly pre cell phone, one of 966 01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:25,080 Speaker 1: the reason musicians wanted to become musicians, to be famous 967 01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,920 Speaker 1: is to experience the Shenanigans of the road. What was 968 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,600 Speaker 1: it like being a woman and in your case it 969 01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:33,680 Speaker 1: was a band of women as opposed to some other 970 01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:39,560 Speaker 1: acts there was a female front person. And then right, well, um, 971 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:48,000 Speaker 1: I had mostly good experiences unless I blocked things out. 972 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,400 Speaker 1: I seem to always be or most of the time 973 01:03:54,480 --> 01:04:01,800 Speaker 1: I was involved in a relationship. I'm going way back here. 974 01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:07,520 Speaker 1: I feel like I've always kind of had my wits 975 01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:11,280 Speaker 1: about me, you know, in a sense, if that expression 976 01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:17,680 Speaker 1: is the right one, because I felt quite vulnerable just 977 01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:24,600 Speaker 1: due to my stature, physical stature. I've always had my 978 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,360 Speaker 1: eye out for anything that felt like ding ding ding, danger, 979 01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:34,000 Speaker 1: approaching so I think that I got through that period 980 01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:40,240 Speaker 1: pretty well. I skated through. But I do feel like 981 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:45,880 Speaker 1: as a female in an all girl band, I did 982 01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:53,000 Speaker 1: feel a sense that, say, as an example, walking into 983 01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:59,200 Speaker 1: a record company and having a lineup of male executives 984 01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:04,280 Speaker 1: and suits looking at you. Um I, you know, of course, 985 01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:10,200 Speaker 1: I felt like, oh god, you know, is this am 986 01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:16,400 Speaker 1: I being judged? Am I? Am? I? Is there some 987 01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:23,960 Speaker 1: imperative for me to be to look to dress the 988 01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:30,040 Speaker 1: part of a sexy rock star? Or you know I 989 01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,000 Speaker 1: I you know, I still grapple with that, you know, 990 01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,960 Speaker 1: even as we age too. It's like it's it's there's 991 01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,960 Speaker 1: an aspect of being in the in the limelight, I 992 01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:45,640 Speaker 1: guess you could say, or um, a performer where there's 993 01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,760 Speaker 1: a natural aspect where the sexuality is part of it. 994 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,200 Speaker 1: Let's just face it. It's part of rock and roll 995 01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,880 Speaker 1: for both for all sexes, you know, for all genders 996 01:05:54,880 --> 01:06:00,920 Speaker 1: and all there's just rock and roll is most often 997 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,440 Speaker 1: imbued with sex and sexuality. So it's it makes it 998 01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,280 Speaker 1: very It's very complex, Bob, That's what I think. It's 999 01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,360 Speaker 1: a complex thing. But I do think that there's a parallel. 1000 01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,600 Speaker 1: In my book, I was able to kind of recall 1001 01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:18,640 Speaker 1: that feeling of like I've got to put on I've 1002 01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:23,160 Speaker 1: got to become her. I've got to I've got to 1003 01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,560 Speaker 1: be someone who's confident and who can tap into the 1004 01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:32,080 Speaker 1: natural sexuality that's sort of vibrating under the surface. That 1005 01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:39,600 Speaker 1: that's part of what this music is about. You know. Um, 1006 01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,760 Speaker 1: it's definitely a part of making music and performing music. 1007 01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,440 Speaker 1: I can be honest with you. It's it definitely, and 1008 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,479 Speaker 1: that's why I love it. I mean, who doesn't love 1009 01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,760 Speaker 1: being lost in that feeling. Let's just go back a 1010 01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:58,560 Speaker 1: second to Jay. You reference being a nice Jewish girl earlier, 1011 01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,880 Speaker 1: and Jay was Jewish according to the information online. Whatever 1012 01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,200 Speaker 1: that's worth it. He converted? Can you tell us all 1013 01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:09,200 Speaker 1: about that? Yes, he did, He did ultimately convert. I 1014 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,720 Speaker 1: am the granddaughter of a rabbi who's no longer with us, 1015 01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:18,320 Speaker 1: But my dream was to be married by my grandpa 1016 01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:21,400 Speaker 1: and my uncle, who are both rabbis on the Simon's 1017 01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,840 Speaker 1: side of my family, and in order for that to 1018 01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:33,160 Speaker 1: really happen, Jay was totally fine and was happy to 1019 01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,640 Speaker 1: It was a very easy conversion. It was made easy 1020 01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,880 Speaker 1: by the fact that my mother could teach him a 1021 01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:44,320 Speaker 1: few things. He didn't have to go through months of lessons, 1022 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,520 Speaker 1: and he learned just what he needed to learn. And 1023 01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 1: my grandpa, Ralph Simon also gave Jason tutorials and it 1024 01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:57,320 Speaker 1: was a very quick and easy. Becoming Jewish was not 1025 01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,320 Speaker 1: a big thing. It was the family made it very 1026 01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,040 Speaker 1: easy for him, and it meant it meant a lot 1027 01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:06,560 Speaker 1: to me. I get a little chair choked up to 1028 01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:11,160 Speaker 1: thinking back on my grandpa marrying me and my uncle. 1029 01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:16,960 Speaker 1: It was a beautiful thing. And to what degree were 1030 01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:22,160 Speaker 1: you observed? Did your kids have bar mitzvahs, etcetera, etcetera. Um, 1031 01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:28,120 Speaker 1: not particularly observant. Mostly just for me, it's always been 1032 01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:36,000 Speaker 1: part of my identity, my jewishness. The boys didn't really have. 1033 01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,920 Speaker 1: I had a bat mitzvah in Israel. My older brother 1034 01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:45,480 Speaker 1: John is only a year older. So we went in 1035 01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,759 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, in nineteen seventy four, but I think 1036 01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,360 Speaker 1: my brother would have been, Yeah, he would have been. 1037 01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:54,200 Speaker 1: I think it was seventy two. We just went to 1038 01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:59,719 Speaker 1: the whaling wall. He read out a little phonetically spelled 1039 01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,640 Speaker 1: out a prayer and then at the whaling wall and 1040 01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,400 Speaker 1: we all watched that, and nobody was sitting there with 1041 01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,360 Speaker 1: iPhones filming it. By the way, it was like the 1042 01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,680 Speaker 1: dark ages before pre cell phones. And then we went 1043 01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,599 Speaker 1: to the King David Hotel in Jerusalem and we had 1044 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,880 Speaker 1: a big luncheon with my grandparents and then I did 1045 01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,400 Speaker 1: the Hamotzi prayer over the bread, which I never forgot, 1046 01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:28,360 Speaker 1: and that was my bot mitzvah, and our kids have not. 1047 01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:32,240 Speaker 1: Although I had this funny idea, I don't want anybody 1048 01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,280 Speaker 1: to steal it because I think it's pretty funny, but 1049 01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:36,960 Speaker 1: I'll share it with you that we you know, how 1050 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,519 Speaker 1: you can throw a surprise party for someone's birthday. I 1051 01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,160 Speaker 1: wanted to do. I had this fantasy of throwing a 1052 01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:47,439 Speaker 1: surprise bar mitzvah for my two kids and do it 1053 01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:51,479 Speaker 1: similarly simply, where they just have to read the odd 1054 01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:55,040 Speaker 1: prayer phonetically spelled out and they just walk in the 1055 01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:57,639 Speaker 1: door one day and everyone would be there, it's your 1056 01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,080 Speaker 1: bar mitzvah, and the boys would read it and we'd 1057 01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:03,720 Speaker 1: have someone officiating and that would be it. They were 1058 01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,439 Speaker 1: both par misfit. Speaking of your two kids, what are 1059 01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:13,680 Speaker 1: they up to? So? Jackson Roach is a podcast in 1060 01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,760 Speaker 1: the podcast world. It's he has been in love with 1061 01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:21,680 Speaker 1: radio storytelling. Radio play since he was a kid and 1062 01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:26,040 Speaker 1: also has been like a tremendous reader. He just loves 1063 01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:31,400 Speaker 1: fiction too, like his mom. And so he has done. 1064 01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,719 Speaker 1: He produced and wrote a show that was got on radio, 1065 01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,800 Speaker 1: that got on Radio Lab and ninety nine percent Invisible. 1066 01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,439 Speaker 1: Now he's working for a podcast company called the Dig, 1067 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:45,439 Speaker 1: so he's immersed in creating podcast and in that world. 1068 01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:49,439 Speaker 1: And then my younger son, Sam Roach, he is a 1069 01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:55,000 Speaker 1: screenwriter and actor. And where did they go to college? 1070 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:59,880 Speaker 1: They both went to Stanford. That okay, so they have 1071 01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:03,439 Speaker 1: that pedigree. Let's go back to the Bengals era. To 1072 01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,240 Speaker 1: what degree were you and the other women in the 1073 01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:11,839 Speaker 1: act involved in drugs and alcohol back in that period? Well, 1074 01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,400 Speaker 1: I liked a little bit of the white wine back then. 1075 01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:18,439 Speaker 1: I don't drink at all now I don't think. I 1076 01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:20,680 Speaker 1: actually don't know if i'd have written the book if 1077 01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:23,240 Speaker 1: I still did. I didn't have what I would consider 1078 01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,880 Speaker 1: a problem. But I liked it and it just was 1079 01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,599 Speaker 1: a nice relaxing thing to do. But I one day 1080 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,479 Speaker 1: I just thought, what would life be like if I 1081 01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:35,320 Speaker 1: didn't have that wine, you know, at six o'clock every 1082 01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:40,800 Speaker 1: night or however whenever, Um gosh, I'm being so confessional 1083 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,360 Speaker 1: with you, Bob, I hope it's okay. Is everything? This 1084 01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:47,880 Speaker 1: is exactly what I'm looking for. Stuff Okay, good, I 1085 01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:54,719 Speaker 1: figured as much. But so um, No, the Bengals were 1086 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,840 Speaker 1: quite We liked the odd drink. We would have, you know, 1087 01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:02,360 Speaker 1: a glass the wine before going on stage or not. 1088 01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:07,200 Speaker 1: You know, it depended. I'm speaking mostly for myself, but 1089 01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:14,040 Speaker 1: afterwards for sure, And yeah, I think it was. But 1090 01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:18,040 Speaker 1: I don't think we were out of control. We were not. 1091 01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:20,280 Speaker 1: It was it was not. Let me put it this way. 1092 01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:25,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't an issue. Nobody had to go. There were 1093 01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:29,040 Speaker 1: no trips to rehab in our band. We're very lucky 1094 01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,040 Speaker 1: that way. We just we just enjoyed a little bit 1095 01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:36,599 Speaker 1: of wine from on the road. But it wasn't beyond that. 1096 01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:42,599 Speaker 1: Speaking of the Bengals, although the Go Gos were maybe 1097 01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,720 Speaker 1: the progenitors, the Bengals actually had more hits than the 1098 01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,280 Speaker 1: Go Gos. The Go Gos are in the Rock and 1099 01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,519 Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame. I'm not a big believer in 1100 01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:53,400 Speaker 1: the rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but I bring 1101 01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:55,400 Speaker 1: it up. If the Go Goes are in the rock 1102 01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:58,240 Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame, shouldn't the Bengals be in 1103 01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:02,040 Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Well, I I 1104 01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:06,360 Speaker 1: think that would be very nice. I don't, I don't 1105 01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:10,400 Speaker 1: What's what am I trying to say? It would be 1106 01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,880 Speaker 1: very fun, I think to get inducted in the Rock 1107 01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,599 Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame. I say this partly because 1108 01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:24,880 Speaker 1: I inducted the Zombies and I had no idea what 1109 01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,880 Speaker 1: it would be like to be there among peers in 1110 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:32,080 Speaker 1: the music business. But that experience, because I love the 1111 01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,840 Speaker 1: Zombies so much and I was so honored to be 1112 01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:40,840 Speaker 1: asked to even you know, to be asked to induct them, 1113 01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:45,120 Speaker 1: that I had one of the best nights of my 1114 01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:49,000 Speaker 1: life at that show because I just ran into all 1115 01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,799 Speaker 1: these musicians that I hadn't seen. Brian May from Queen 1116 01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:57,280 Speaker 1: the Bengals opened for Queen and at Slane Castle in 1117 01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:00,480 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. I think it was one of Freddie's 1118 01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:05,920 Speaker 1: Mercury's last show with them, or last show, and it 1119 01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:08,599 Speaker 1: might have been we'd have to do some fact checking. 1120 01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:13,599 Speaker 1: But to just reconnect with Brian May and then um, 1121 01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:16,960 Speaker 1: to be with the Zombies and to meet all the 1122 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:22,840 Speaker 1: other to read John Taylor was there who hadn't seen 1123 01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:26,759 Speaker 1: There was a really fun party that Stevie Nicks threw 1124 01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:29,280 Speaker 1: and I got to hang out with Simon Lebon and 1125 01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:31,880 Speaker 1: John who hadn't seen in years because they I think 1126 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,639 Speaker 1: they inducted. Okay, now I'm forgetting, but we can look 1127 01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:42,160 Speaker 1: it up. It was just a magical night and mostly 1128 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:48,320 Speaker 1: just to celebrate music. So yeah, I mean, I yeah, 1129 01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:50,240 Speaker 1: I don't know how to. I don't have a last check. 1130 01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,720 Speaker 1: Let me let me change the question a little bit. 1131 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:54,680 Speaker 1: Do you feel a little ripped off that they're in 1132 01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,640 Speaker 1: and you're not in? Oh? No, no, no, I'm not 1133 01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:02,679 Speaker 1: like that. No No. I went also, um to see 1134 01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:07,559 Speaker 1: their induction because I was again invited to because because 1135 01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,880 Speaker 1: I'm so close with the Go Goes. So um No, 1136 01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:18,960 Speaker 1: it was incredible, Like not at all. No, I'm just yeah, 1137 01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:21,800 Speaker 1: that's not that's not how my I'm not that Yeah, 1138 01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:24,519 Speaker 1: that's not that's not where I go with those things. Yeah, 1139 01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:27,840 Speaker 1: you mentioned how much you love the Zombies. You talked 1140 01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:34,160 Speaker 1: about exchanging uh playlists with Nick Hornby. So how did 1141 01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:41,400 Speaker 1: your interest in music begin into what degree? Was an infatuation? Well, 1142 01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:45,080 Speaker 1: let's start with that second part. It's always been an 1143 01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:49,080 Speaker 1: infatuation and per my mother, who loves music as much 1144 01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:53,559 Speaker 1: as I did and played the AM radio and had 1145 01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:57,519 Speaker 1: bought records all the time, played it constantly, and claims 1146 01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:01,280 Speaker 1: that that when I was born, I was in this 1147 01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:05,080 Speaker 1: little crib, and for that period of time in the crib, 1148 01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:08,240 Speaker 1: she had the music playing and that I would cool 1149 01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:11,040 Speaker 1: along to it, and it was in a room with 1150 01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,840 Speaker 1: a floor that it had wheels on it or something 1151 01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:17,439 Speaker 1: that she'd find that I sort of bopped around to 1152 01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,639 Speaker 1: it as a baby, and I was so like turned 1153 01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,880 Speaker 1: on by the music. I was so activated by it. 1154 01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:27,080 Speaker 1: And then as soon as and then growing up in 1155 01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:28,960 Speaker 1: La you're in the car, you're in the backseat of 1156 01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:32,759 Speaker 1: the station Reagan, and my mom was always blasting AM radio. 1157 01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:38,280 Speaker 1: So I was teaching myself to sing first well, from 1158 01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:41,320 Speaker 1: the crib, if she's right about that might be an exaggeration, 1159 01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:44,800 Speaker 1: the backseat of the car and when the radio was on. 1160 01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,360 Speaker 1: And then the minute I started buying records, or my 1161 01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:52,080 Speaker 1: mom would buy records for me, I would play them continuously, 1162 01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:55,920 Speaker 1: and then I would teach myself the exact moves and 1163 01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:01,439 Speaker 1: nuances that the singers were giving their performance. I just 1164 01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:05,360 Speaker 1: studied them without knowing that I was studying them. I mean, 1165 01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:07,920 Speaker 1: this is true of a lot of singers I've met 1166 01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:14,040 Speaker 1: and had this conversation with Joni Mitchell Records, Linda Ronstadt Records. 1167 01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:18,880 Speaker 1: Now having worked with Peter Asher, those childhood memories resonate 1168 01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:25,000 Speaker 1: even more. But just learning the like mimicking that them, 1169 01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:28,720 Speaker 1: actually trying to mimic every one of their little swoops 1170 01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:35,120 Speaker 1: and growls and moves vocally. How did you decide you 1171 01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:38,479 Speaker 1: wanted to be a musician, Well, it was just a passion. 1172 01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that I ever thought of 1173 01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,840 Speaker 1: any other career path besides being in the arts, for sure, 1174 01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:48,920 Speaker 1: because I was always painting and drawing. I was around 1175 01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,719 Speaker 1: my mother painting and drawing and sculpting all the time too, 1176 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:55,040 Speaker 1: and my dad being a psychoanalyst. He was just a 1177 01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,599 Speaker 1: cool presence in the house who was so open minded 1178 01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:02,639 Speaker 1: about everything and so so cool. Let me just say 1179 01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:08,559 Speaker 1: that cool parents. But it Singing was just a part 1180 01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:12,439 Speaker 1: of my life from childhood. So it was as soon 1181 01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:15,639 Speaker 1: as my uncle, my mother's younger brother, put a guitar 1182 01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:19,840 Speaker 1: in my hands. You know. Again, everything that I've done 1183 01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:22,200 Speaker 1: in the arts has pretty much been self taught. I'm 1184 01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:24,800 Speaker 1: embarrassed to say I don't read music. I really should. 1185 01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,400 Speaker 1: What's wrong with me. I don't know, but I just 1186 01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:30,479 Speaker 1: never got round to it. I think I was always 1187 01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:33,640 Speaker 1: so impulsive about it, like teach me the chords of 1188 01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,719 Speaker 1: that song, and I would just I just know the chords. 1189 01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,600 Speaker 1: It's not like I can read a musical chart, and 1190 01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:41,200 Speaker 1: I would just try to figure out how to play 1191 01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:44,880 Speaker 1: a song that way. And like compared to hanging out 1192 01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:49,800 Speaker 1: with Peter Asher, who's so are youdite when it comes 1193 01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,559 Speaker 1: to music and has all the charts there, and I 1194 01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,680 Speaker 1: see them reading the charts and I'm like, yeah, what 1195 01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:58,200 Speaker 1: are the chords? I can do it that way? Folk 1196 01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:02,599 Speaker 1: folk folk style and sharing. For me, it was people 1197 01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:06,000 Speaker 1: sharing their recipes like that's what That's what it was 1198 01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:12,120 Speaker 1: to learn a song. Um. Yeah, am I answering your question? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Uh. 1199 01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:15,280 Speaker 1: Did you play in bands or play live alone in 1200 01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,760 Speaker 1: high school? Um? I did more dance and theater and 1201 01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:24,280 Speaker 1: dancing and acting in high school. I was always in 1202 01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:29,640 Speaker 1: the musicals. I would play with friends on the schoolyard occasionally. 1203 01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:35,680 Speaker 1: I definitely had other friends like me who could play, 1204 01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,719 Speaker 1: you know, maybe various songs on the guitar. I was singing, 1205 01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:42,160 Speaker 1: for sure, but I don't know if I and I 1206 01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:44,880 Speaker 1: was in the musicals, but I don't think I ever 1207 01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:49,639 Speaker 1: sang like in a school concert like my own stuff. 1208 01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:53,479 Speaker 1: I was in the choir. But yeah, the stuff that 1209 01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:55,920 Speaker 1: I really cared most about was the stuff I would 1210 01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:59,599 Speaker 1: just do with my friends. Nobody really heard it besides us. 1211 01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:04,240 Speaker 1: What about in college? In college, let's see, I was 1212 01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:08,840 Speaker 1: a dance major, A drama dance major. I must have 1213 01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:11,759 Speaker 1: had a guitar up there. I was obsessed with music 1214 01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:15,080 Speaker 1: in college. I remember we had eight tracks. Was that 1215 01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:22,599 Speaker 1: when eight tracks where? Absolutely? Yeah, I definitely. I'm trying 1216 01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:25,040 Speaker 1: to remember if I had I debt what? Oh? Part 1217 01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:28,320 Speaker 1: way through college, absolutely I was with David Roeback. I 1218 01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:31,479 Speaker 1: was still back on that story of the first year 1219 01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,360 Speaker 1: when I was in the dorm. Oh yeah, no. Starting 1220 01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:37,840 Speaker 1: after the year in the dorm, I was playing music, 1221 01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:43,559 Speaker 1: but not publicly, just for myself. And you graduate then 1222 01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:47,519 Speaker 1: would then? I? Okay? So I went to see the 1223 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,600 Speaker 1: Sex Pistols, and at winter Lamba Room I went to 1224 01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:54,920 Speaker 1: see Patti Smith. So during college and during the David 1225 01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:57,960 Speaker 1: Roeback period of college, which was the second half my 1226 01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:05,799 Speaker 1: junior and senior year, I was totally immersed in making art, painting, sculpture, singing, 1227 01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:10,400 Speaker 1: recording music with David on little cassettes, going to see shows, 1228 01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:16,120 Speaker 1: going to San Francisco, going to the punk clubs. Yeah, 1229 01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:22,719 Speaker 1: that's that. Music became the big headline. And my dream 1230 01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,519 Speaker 1: was to come back to LA and either be in 1231 01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:29,040 Speaker 1: the band with David Roeback whatever that we were just 1232 01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:31,599 Speaker 1: a duo at that point, to create a band with him, 1233 01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:35,280 Speaker 1: and then when that didn't work out because the relationship 1234 01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:40,559 Speaker 1: was kind of rocky, I realized that I needed to 1235 01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:42,800 Speaker 1: do it some other way. So I just started to 1236 01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:49,200 Speaker 1: adversisise myself in the recycler and I drew because I 1237 01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:53,680 Speaker 1: was still kind of post art school I was. I 1238 01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:56,439 Speaker 1: would draw all these flyers and xerox them at a 1239 01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:00,680 Speaker 1: xerox place and pat put them at reck stores. And 1240 01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:03,240 Speaker 1: I took a stack of my flyers to the Gogs 1241 01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:06,040 Speaker 1: show at the Whiskey of Go Go and they got 1242 01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,040 Speaker 1: thrown in the trash. I had to dig them out 1243 01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:10,840 Speaker 1: a few times. Then I gave up. Yeah, I was 1244 01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:14,200 Speaker 1: like an old school Okay, these were flyers saying I 1245 01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:16,720 Speaker 1: want to start a band, yeah, and I can send 1246 01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:20,080 Speaker 1: there's some of them are online. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I 1247 01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:23,320 Speaker 1: hand drawn flyers that I made let's go back to 1248 01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:27,280 Speaker 1: David Roebeck. What came first? The music of the romance? Oh? 1249 01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:30,000 Speaker 1: That well, we were he was. He was my brother's 1250 01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:32,719 Speaker 1: best friend growing up, so we went to high school together. 1251 01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:39,920 Speaker 1: He was a grade older than me. Um. Wow, that's 1252 01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:43,240 Speaker 1: a good question. At one point my brother wasn't too 1253 01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:47,519 Speaker 1: happy about it. A romance bloomed. But I think I 1254 01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:50,360 Speaker 1: was in college already. Yeah, no, it would have been 1255 01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:55,360 Speaker 1: in college. It would have been in college because yeah, 1256 01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,480 Speaker 1: you also do you also go to Berkeley. He transferred 1257 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,559 Speaker 1: to Berkeley. He started out at a college called Carlton 1258 01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:06,120 Speaker 1: College in Minnesota, and he started there in seventy five. 1259 01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:10,480 Speaker 1: I started Berkeley in seventy six, and then he transferred. 1260 01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:17,960 Speaker 1: It had probably been seventy seven seventy eight that around 1261 01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:21,880 Speaker 1: the time he transferred, and then we eventually lived together 1262 01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:27,400 Speaker 1: at Berkeley. Did he transfer to be with you? I 1263 01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:33,120 Speaker 1: may partly? I think maybe? So. How hard was it 1264 01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:41,760 Speaker 1: when you broke up? Not only romance wise but musically. Okay, 1265 01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:45,360 Speaker 1: we're taking a long time ago. I'm sure tears were 1266 01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:51,439 Speaker 1: shed and emotions were felt deeply. It was hard, I 1267 01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:53,960 Speaker 1: think because I loved the vibe of what David and 1268 01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:56,599 Speaker 1: I were doing. I mean, we would play like Little 1269 01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,840 Speaker 1: Honda by the Beach Boys, but Mazzie Star style, if 1270 01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:03,360 Speaker 1: you can try to picture that like sort of droney 1271 01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:10,800 Speaker 1: and slowed down and kind of etherial, you know, and 1272 01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:15,960 Speaker 1: you know, of course we love The Velvet Underground. I think, um, 1273 01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,720 Speaker 1: my recordings that I made with David of I'll be 1274 01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,600 Speaker 1: your mirror and I'll keep it with mine, which was 1275 01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:27,679 Speaker 1: the Nico song from her record that was produced by um. 1276 01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:32,760 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm having a a senior momentum guy 1277 01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:35,360 Speaker 1: from Guy from the Velvet Underground. Now I can't remember 1278 01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:42,479 Speaker 1: there it is there, it is, thank you. Um. Those 1279 01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:47,360 Speaker 1: were like seminal records for me and still are, I think. 1280 01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:51,559 Speaker 1: So I'm really glad that finally on my Spotify you 1281 01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:53,960 Speaker 1: can find those recordings. I'll keep it with mine and 1282 01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:59,080 Speaker 1: I'll be your mirror. U. So yeah, I mean, David, 1283 01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:02,400 Speaker 1: until he passed away, has been a close family friend, 1284 01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:07,719 Speaker 1: close with my parents, close with my brother John, who 1285 01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:10,599 Speaker 1: they were in the same grade. They were best friends 1286 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:22,000 Speaker 1: and such a special person. So you talk about exchanging 1287 01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:26,200 Speaker 1: playlists with Nick Hornby. Is this new music or is 1288 01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:31,160 Speaker 1: this music throughout rock history? Just throughout rock history, just 1289 01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:38,040 Speaker 1: stuff that he's his listening practice. His discovery practice of 1290 01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:45,040 Speaker 1: finding stuff is like well honed. Mine is haphazard. I 1291 01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:49,320 Speaker 1: have a tradition of sending links to my family, we 1292 01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:53,040 Speaker 1: share links all the time, and friends and sharing playlists 1293 01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:57,160 Speaker 1: that I've made. But Nick's blow all those out of 1294 01:25:57,160 --> 01:26:02,840 Speaker 1: the water. I mean he is a master curator of playlists, 1295 01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:06,320 Speaker 1: and some are thematic and some are more of a jumble. 1296 01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:09,840 Speaker 1: But like it's a gift. Yeah, I mean, because I'm 1297 01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:14,639 Speaker 1: finding all sorts of new artists that way, he's he's 1298 01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:21,120 Speaker 1: more tapped into new music. And to what degree are 1299 01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:24,559 Speaker 1: you listening to new music as opposed to the old music? Well, 1300 01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:27,400 Speaker 1: I tend to default to the oldies. But because I 1301 01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:32,160 Speaker 1: have playlists that friends have been sending me with newer artists, 1302 01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:36,840 Speaker 1: it's been a great way to crack open that, you know, 1303 01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:40,519 Speaker 1: that side of things, and to have exposure. The other 1304 01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:44,360 Speaker 1: person who, like Nick Hornby, is great at discovering new 1305 01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,559 Speaker 1: stuff is Peter Asher, and he's the one who turned 1306 01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:50,760 Speaker 1: me onto Holly Humberstone. Did we already talk about this 1307 01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:58,759 Speaker 1: or recycling back? So Holly Hush, Joe Joy odellacum adela 1308 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:01,160 Speaker 1: cum I always pronounced it ode locum, but I think 1309 01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:04,200 Speaker 1: I have it the emphasis and is meant to be 1310 01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:08,120 Speaker 1: on the other syllables. If you've got her song, if 1311 01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,200 Speaker 1: you've got a problem, it is just extraordinary. And it 1312 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:14,880 Speaker 1: was a pleasure to sing. Yeah. And then you know, 1313 01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:18,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it was Peter who had 1314 01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:22,880 Speaker 1: the cool idea of covering a Billie Eilish song that 1315 01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:25,479 Speaker 1: was great. Of course I knew about Billie Eilish, but 1316 01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:28,680 Speaker 1: I didn't know that song. So I really owe a 1317 01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:32,320 Speaker 1: lot to Peter for opening my eyes too and my ears. 1318 01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:37,200 Speaker 1: I should say to these some of these young artists 1319 01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:41,000 Speaker 1: that I hadn't crossed paths with on my Spotify or 1320 01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:44,559 Speaker 1: on my streaming searches. So how did you end up 1321 01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:49,040 Speaker 1: making a record with Peter Rasher? Well, it was kind 1322 01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:52,280 Speaker 1: of the dark days of the pandemic. It was ninth 1323 01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:59,240 Speaker 1: sorry nineteen. It was two thousand twenty one when I 1324 01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:02,759 Speaker 1: got an I heard a voicemail that I had missed 1325 01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:07,880 Speaker 1: from the day before from my longtime road manager, John Kollachi. 1326 01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:12,640 Speaker 1: That word was that Peter Asher wanted to make a 1327 01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:15,759 Speaker 1: record with me. And it was such a dark period 1328 01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:20,400 Speaker 1: right then, and I it was like sunshine burst through 1329 01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:24,519 Speaker 1: the clouds. In that moment, I was practically trembling, and 1330 01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:27,640 Speaker 1: I kept listening over and over again to that, to 1331 01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,880 Speaker 1: that voicemail Peter Asher wants to make a record with me. 1332 01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:35,400 Speaker 1: I could hardly believe my ears. So then then the 1333 01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:41,160 Speaker 1: communication started, and um, you know, we we connected. I 1334 01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:46,720 Speaker 1: drove out to Peter's home in Malibu and was welcomed 1335 01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:50,479 Speaker 1: in by his family. I at that point I gave him, 1336 01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:53,320 Speaker 1: like I think, I mentioned a manuscript printed out and 1337 01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:57,599 Speaker 1: from my computer printer, m from I should say, my printer, 1338 01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:00,760 Speaker 1: and for him to read of the book. He read 1339 01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:03,760 Speaker 1: it really quickly. There was an instant bond. I was, 1340 01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:07,320 Speaker 1: you know, in awe of him as a producer and 1341 01:29:07,320 --> 01:29:09,839 Speaker 1: and but then got to know him as a dear friend. 1342 01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:14,680 Speaker 1: And I just cherished that relationship so much. Well, if 1343 01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:17,280 Speaker 1: you've got to make a record, it costs money. Where 1344 01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:21,679 Speaker 1: did the money come from? Well, I'm I'm I don't 1345 01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:24,639 Speaker 1: know what what happened in my life, but I just 1346 01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:29,240 Speaker 1: hit a point where I realized that the indie spirit 1347 01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:34,719 Speaker 1: that fueled everything that had come in, starting with the Bengals, 1348 01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:38,080 Speaker 1: or even the attempt set a band with David Roebak 1349 01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:43,080 Speaker 1: that didn't necessarily come to fruition. I remember going I'm 1350 01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:46,600 Speaker 1: digressing for one second here. I remember going to a 1351 01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:50,479 Speaker 1: night of the women of Berkeley, an event at a 1352 01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:53,600 Speaker 1: dear friend's house to get everybody together, and everybody was 1353 01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:59,480 Speaker 1: reminiscing about graduating and how they came upon their careers, 1354 01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:03,200 Speaker 1: and many of them had gone to the jobs office 1355 01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:07,200 Speaker 1: at Berkeley to talk about ways to start a career. 1356 01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:10,639 Speaker 1: And I remember thinking when they came around the circle 1357 01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,360 Speaker 1: of everyone telling those stories to about how they got 1358 01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:17,360 Speaker 1: their jobs, I was like, they're what. I couldn't exactly 1359 01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,519 Speaker 1: work walk into the Job's office at Berkeley and say, 1360 01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,519 Speaker 1: I want to start a band? What what what do 1361 01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:28,120 Speaker 1: you got for me? You know? So so yeah, I've 1362 01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:31,679 Speaker 1: always I've always done all these things on sheer will 1363 01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:38,280 Speaker 1: and maybe a little bit of insanity, but um, I 1364 01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:41,320 Speaker 1: was possessed with the idea of starting a band. I'll 1365 01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:43,680 Speaker 1: just say it. I was. I was impassioned at the 1366 01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:45,639 Speaker 1: thought of it, and I just had to go out 1367 01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:49,479 Speaker 1: there and keep knocking on doors, you know, so to 1368 01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:53,720 Speaker 1: speak to find people. So that's why I made the Flyers. 1369 01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:59,040 Speaker 1: I I looked at ads in the newspaper pre internet, 1370 01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:02,760 Speaker 1: so there was recycler I was looking for. And then 1371 01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:06,280 Speaker 1: I called one of the ads and lo and behold 1372 01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:09,439 Speaker 1: Vicki Peterson answered it was an ad, not from her, 1373 01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:15,040 Speaker 1: it was their roommate. And that's how that started. Okay, 1374 01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:19,320 Speaker 1: And in this interim graduating from college, did you have 1375 01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:23,120 Speaker 1: a day job? Yes, I did, as a matter of fact. 1376 01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:29,559 Speaker 1: So my uncle Carmy Simon, my mother's youngest brother. He 1377 01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:33,200 Speaker 1: was an incredible musician who was the first person who 1378 01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:35,800 Speaker 1: gave me that guitar that I'm holding in the picture 1379 01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:38,560 Speaker 1: of myself. When I was eight or seven. I was 1380 01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:42,640 Speaker 1: either finishing up year seven or just eight, because it 1381 01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:49,799 Speaker 1: says January nineteen sixty seven on the picture. He offered 1382 01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:51,800 Speaker 1: me a job out of college. It was kind of 1383 01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,639 Speaker 1: it was like a factory girl job, if you can imagine. 1384 01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:57,559 Speaker 1: It was in a warehouse in Santa Monica where he 1385 01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:00,400 Speaker 1: had a little ceramics company, and it was all the 1386 01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,360 Speaker 1: rage at that time to make these like little hand 1387 01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:09,280 Speaker 1: painted ceramic buttons and jewelry and stuff and not exactly 1388 01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:14,040 Speaker 1: like pottery. So I sat in the basement room alone 1389 01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:19,320 Speaker 1: with a transistor radio which I had tuned to k 1390 01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:22,040 Speaker 1: Earth one oh one, which in the eighties was playing 1391 01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:26,040 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties music, and that's what how I spent my 1392 01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:29,759 Speaker 1: time for the most part during my day job. Every 1393 01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:32,680 Speaker 1: once in a while i'd go upstairs where there was sunshine, 1394 01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:34,479 Speaker 1: but most of the time I was in the dark 1395 01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:39,040 Speaker 1: with the radio. And I heard that song. I had 1396 01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:42,960 Speaker 1: already met Vicking Debbi through the recycler. They'd come over. 1397 01:32:43,080 --> 01:32:47,320 Speaker 1: We'd had that fateful testing out of the waters where 1398 01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:52,000 Speaker 1: we determined we should be a band that night, and 1399 01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:56,400 Speaker 1: I heard I heard Hazy Shaded Winter. I know that 1400 01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:59,640 Speaker 1: when I was still at the I was that that 1401 01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:03,240 Speaker 1: day job for a while. It wasn't until things started 1402 01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:07,559 Speaker 1: kicking off for the Bengals, because I remember hearing Hazy 1403 01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:10,800 Speaker 1: Shaded Winter and not knowing that Simon and garfuncle Fan 1404 01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:13,400 Speaker 1: and I thought I knew all their music, and I 1405 01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:16,840 Speaker 1: pitched it at rehearsal, and then we didn't record it 1406 01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:20,120 Speaker 1: for years. And Robert Hilburn, the local journalist, gave it 1407 01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,559 Speaker 1: a really crap review. Specifically, he said it was plotting 1408 01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:29,320 Speaker 1: and listless or something like that. That's okay, he's entitled 1409 01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:33,160 Speaker 1: to his opinion. How did you ultimately give up the 1410 01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:36,920 Speaker 1: day job? Oh well, that was m let's see what 1411 01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:41,519 Speaker 1: got me past the day job? Oh? You know what, 1412 01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:46,799 Speaker 1: I think we finally got some action on the record 1413 01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:51,439 Speaker 1: company front. We finally had it all. It takes as one, 1414 01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:54,240 Speaker 1: as I like to say, there was crickets and then 1415 01:33:54,240 --> 01:33:57,679 Speaker 1: there was one, and that was Peter Fulben bringing Bruce 1416 01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:02,960 Speaker 1: Springsteen to see the Bengals play The Scrappy, the Scrappy 1417 01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:06,519 Speaker 1: early iteration of the Bengals play at Magic Mountain? Am 1418 01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:08,880 Speaker 1: I repeating? Or have I have I not? No? No 1419 01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:11,840 Speaker 1: no no, keep no yeah. Yeah. So we had a 1420 01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:14,479 Speaker 1: gig at Magic Mountain. It was a very spinal tap 1421 01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:16,599 Speaker 1: sort of atmosphere. It was just sort of a band 1422 01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:19,240 Speaker 1: shell and a kind of a cement stage as I recall, 1423 01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:24,280 Speaker 1: and sort of rising up seats, and we met Bruce Springsteen. 1424 01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:27,000 Speaker 1: Peter had dragged him all the way from wherever he lived. 1425 01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:33,759 Speaker 1: And I've always thought Bruce vetted the band, because you know, somehow, 1426 01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:35,720 Speaker 1: some way, I'm going to give him credit for that 1427 01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:41,280 Speaker 1: and Peter Philbinum, but it's kind of amazing to think 1428 01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:44,360 Speaker 1: that he dragged Bruce out to a theme park to 1429 01:34:44,439 --> 01:34:48,519 Speaker 1: see this all girl band. I don't know, how did 1430 01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:52,240 Speaker 1: you get him? How did you get a manager? Um? Okay, 1431 01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:57,439 Speaker 1: so how did we meet Miles Copeland and Mike Gormley. 1432 01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:01,320 Speaker 1: We had a lawyer, Candice Hanson, who was really advocating 1433 01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:06,600 Speaker 1: for us. Oh I remember now, Sorry, it took me 1434 01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:09,679 Speaker 1: a second. We were part of the Paisley underground scene 1435 01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:14,439 Speaker 1: and we were playing at like the Cathay de Grand 1436 01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:17,799 Speaker 1: or are one of the ones that kind of downtown 1437 01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:22,560 Speaker 1: LA or Hollywood. It was one of the ones in Hollywood, 1438 01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:26,040 Speaker 1: and I remember post show, I was sitting at the 1439 01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:31,479 Speaker 1: bar or someone said there's a there's this god. No, 1440 01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:34,320 Speaker 1: I must have sat. I somehow managed to sit next 1441 01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:36,599 Speaker 1: to him. I had no idea who he was. I 1442 01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:39,479 Speaker 1: didn't really know that much about the police because of 1443 01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:43,439 Speaker 1: my obsession with sixties music. I wasn't really like up 1444 01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:47,439 Speaker 1: on the bands of the eighties at that time period. 1445 01:35:47,479 --> 01:35:54,040 Speaker 1: This would have been eighty two, nineteen eighty two or yeah, 1446 01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:56,720 Speaker 1: I'm guessing eighty two. I'd go up to him, he 1447 01:35:56,720 --> 01:35:59,639 Speaker 1: starts to make conversation with me. I have no idea 1448 01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:01,920 Speaker 1: who he is. No one told me that I had 1449 01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:05,920 Speaker 1: no clue that he was this iconic manager. And I 1450 01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:09,719 Speaker 1: was kind of, you know, kind of sassy and scrappy. 1451 01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:12,320 Speaker 1: I don't know I don't remember really like treating him 1452 01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:18,160 Speaker 1: like he was some important person. And so that's my 1453 01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:22,880 Speaker 1: memory of first meeting Miles. Okay, now let's switch back. 1454 01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:25,519 Speaker 1: You said you were talked about what it would cost 1455 01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:28,200 Speaker 1: to make this record, and then you talked about doing 1456 01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:32,639 Speaker 1: things in an indie way. Yeah, what it would cost 1457 01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:35,760 Speaker 1: to make the one I made with Peter? Right? Where 1458 01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:38,360 Speaker 1: the money would come from? Well, the money I took 1459 01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:42,800 Speaker 1: the money from that I'd made over the years in 1460 01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:47,240 Speaker 1: my life, and I invested in myself. Yeah, I have 1461 01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:50,080 Speaker 1: to ask, under today's circumstances, how much did it cost 1462 01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:53,439 Speaker 1: to make the record? Oh, I don't like talking about 1463 01:36:53,439 --> 01:36:55,800 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Well, let me put it a 1464 01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:58,200 Speaker 1: different way. Maybe Peter can give it to you. It 1465 01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:01,400 Speaker 1: was it cost enough to let's put it this way. 1466 01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:09,240 Speaker 1: He hired the best people, a great studio. Yeah, I 1467 01:37:09,280 --> 01:37:11,280 Speaker 1: don't know if i'll I don't know if a person 1468 01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:16,559 Speaker 1: can make money unless they get song placements anymore. I 1469 01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:19,280 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know about the music business. Well, 1470 01:37:19,479 --> 01:37:23,160 Speaker 1: that's why I'm asking. You're investing X somewhere between thirty 1471 01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:26,839 Speaker 1: and one hundred K, and are you thinking about return 1472 01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:32,320 Speaker 1: on investment? Not at the moment, I'm just helping people 1473 01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:35,519 Speaker 1: connect with the music. I don't. I mean, I guess 1474 01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:41,679 Speaker 1: that that I'm in a lucky position that all these 1475 01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:46,719 Speaker 1: many decades of being a hard working gal doing her thing, 1476 01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:53,080 Speaker 1: and the great fortune of having songs like Eternal Flame 1477 01:37:54,720 --> 01:38:00,559 Speaker 1: click with audiences and remain something that people dream or 1478 01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:07,040 Speaker 1: want a license for movie and television placements, that I've 1479 01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:16,360 Speaker 1: continued to receive enough royalties to fund my own indie record. Okay, 1480 01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:22,240 Speaker 1: so just going on, Peter tracks you down, but you're 1481 01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:27,519 Speaker 1: paying well? Sure, and Peter did not. The fee to 1482 01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:34,040 Speaker 1: produce the record was extraordinarily reasonable. If not, I mean, 1483 01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:38,479 Speaker 1: I think both Peter and I are in a place 1484 01:38:38,640 --> 01:38:42,599 Speaker 1: in our journeys on this planet we call Earth that um, 1485 01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:47,680 Speaker 1: we were doing it for love. I mean, really, he 1486 01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:53,439 Speaker 1: was very reasonable. And I wanted to pay these hard 1487 01:38:53,479 --> 01:38:59,479 Speaker 1: working musicians what what felt right to them, so, you know, 1488 01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:02,599 Speaker 1: and I wanted to the young man who runs the 1489 01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:05,000 Speaker 1: studio as a dear friend, and I wanted to make 1490 01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:09,639 Speaker 1: sure that I was paying everybody what felt comfortable. They 1491 01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:13,559 Speaker 1: all knew that I was self financing this record, so people, 1492 01:39:14,200 --> 01:39:17,519 Speaker 1: you know, were cognizant of that. But I also wanted 1493 01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:19,840 Speaker 1: people to be happy. I didn't. I never want to 1494 01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:22,400 Speaker 1: take advantage of everyone's doing the best job that they can. 1495 01:39:22,479 --> 01:39:25,200 Speaker 1: And I'm so fortunate to be in the company of 1496 01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:29,200 Speaker 1: these extraordinary human beings who work so hard to help 1497 01:39:29,240 --> 01:39:33,040 Speaker 1: me create something, hopefully that's beautiful and connects. But one 1498 01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:36,479 Speaker 1: never knows. Every time you throw yourself out there to 1499 01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:41,960 Speaker 1: make something, you just hope for the best that some 1500 01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:49,759 Speaker 1: connection will be made and somebody will somewhere somewhere around 1501 01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:52,360 Speaker 1: the world will click on a song and go, ah, 1502 01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:57,080 Speaker 1: this is exactly what I needed to hear. Okay, you know, 1503 01:39:57,200 --> 01:40:01,400 Speaker 1: he brought in his usual suspects, like walk tell all 1504 01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:07,080 Speaker 1: great players. Were you intimidated it all? Yes, at first, 1505 01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:10,839 Speaker 1: until I met them, and then they were like family. 1506 01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:18,680 Speaker 1: I mean I was so intimidated at first, and but 1507 01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:22,559 Speaker 1: they're not intimidating human beings. They're warm, and they're a 1508 01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:26,679 Speaker 1: family and they've played together forever and Peter knows them 1509 01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:29,439 Speaker 1: so well. I was like in the best club, and 1510 01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:31,799 Speaker 1: they invited me to be a member of their club, 1511 01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, like I was rather like pinching myself, like wait, 1512 01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:45,280 Speaker 1: is this happening? Yes? And then they made me step up, 1513 01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:48,719 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to be my best in front 1514 01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:50,920 Speaker 1: of them. I just wanted to give my all and 1515 01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:54,880 Speaker 1: be my best because they're masters. They're all masters, every 1516 01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:58,640 Speaker 1: single one of those guys you just mentioned. Okay, So 1517 01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,240 Speaker 1: from the moment you got to mast Alibu and you 1518 01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:04,040 Speaker 1: meet Peter, how long after that till you go into 1519 01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:10,519 Speaker 1: the studio? Okay? That was I want to say. In 1520 01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:16,920 Speaker 1: the in the spring, so maybe April ish, beginning of May. 1521 01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:21,719 Speaker 1: I'm going to Malibu regularly and playing around and trying 1522 01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:25,360 Speaker 1: songs on for size, like you know, does it do 1523 01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:27,599 Speaker 1: they fit? Can I sing it? What are the keys? 1524 01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:32,320 Speaker 1: And then I believe we started recording, and Peter can 1525 01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:34,559 Speaker 1: give you this if I'm wrong, but I believe we 1526 01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:37,720 Speaker 1: started recording. The first batch was in September, and like 1527 01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:43,559 Speaker 1: I said, we tracked I don't know a whole all 1528 01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:51,599 Speaker 1: the songs with with that crew in four days, maybe three, 1529 01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:56,559 Speaker 1: three to four days. That's how good they are. And 1530 01:41:56,720 --> 01:41:58,960 Speaker 1: how much longer did it take for you to lay 1531 01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:02,680 Speaker 1: your vocals down and finished recording process? M Well, so 1532 01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:07,040 Speaker 1: I had they had all the live vocals, and then 1533 01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:14,040 Speaker 1: it took another series of recording sessions to do all 1534 01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:18,800 Speaker 1: the harmonies and to sing, taking another crack at the vocals. 1535 01:42:18,840 --> 01:42:21,519 Speaker 1: In some times you can use the live vocal. I 1536 01:42:21,560 --> 01:42:25,240 Speaker 1: think in certain cases sometimes you can mix and match 1537 01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:30,080 Speaker 1: between days and takes. And I mean, this is how 1538 01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:34,880 Speaker 1: it's done these days, as opposed to like Elvis Presley days, 1539 01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:38,360 Speaker 1: probably everything was recorded on a few tracks in one take, 1540 01:42:38,479 --> 01:42:42,320 Speaker 1: but some vocals are virtually one take vocals. I think 1541 01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:46,120 Speaker 1: it was so enjoyable to sing these great songs. It's 1542 01:42:46,160 --> 01:42:49,800 Speaker 1: like the pleasure of a of a of for a 1543 01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:53,320 Speaker 1: singer is to sing a great song. Okay, these are 1544 01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:59,000 Speaker 1: covers but mostly modern songs. Was the concept originally covers? 1545 01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:02,559 Speaker 1: And how did you end up up with these particular songs? 1546 01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:06,599 Speaker 1: And was always thought, yes, we want to do contemporary songs. Yeah, 1547 01:43:06,640 --> 01:43:09,440 Speaker 1: I loved the idea that early on in my conversations 1548 01:43:09,479 --> 01:43:13,000 Speaker 1: with Peter, the idea of doing contemporary songs was like 1549 01:43:13,160 --> 01:43:18,000 Speaker 1: lit us both both up. We were very in tune 1550 01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:24,280 Speaker 1: with each other on that and in agreement. And because 1551 01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:27,600 Speaker 1: when I did the Matthew Sweet records, it kind of 1552 01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:31,360 Speaker 1: set this record apart from that because in those cases 1553 01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:35,320 Speaker 1: we drilled down on a decade. So it's the sixties, seventies, 1554 01:43:35,320 --> 01:43:38,080 Speaker 1: and eighties we've done and maybe some day in nineties. 1555 01:43:38,600 --> 01:43:42,000 Speaker 1: But with Peter, I liked the idea. I loved. I 1556 01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:47,600 Speaker 1: so worshiped his work with Linda you know and so 1557 01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:51,120 Speaker 1: and the other wonderful female artists that he produced, but 1558 01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:55,040 Speaker 1: that those particular as I said, Heart Like a Wheel 1559 01:43:55,160 --> 01:43:59,200 Speaker 1: and Prisoner and Disguise were so impactful in my life. 1560 01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:02,759 Speaker 1: So I loved the idea that even on those records 1561 01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:07,080 Speaker 1: there were the curation of the songs was something I'm 1562 01:44:07,120 --> 01:44:09,599 Speaker 1: sure they did together, as Peter and I did. But 1563 01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:15,480 Speaker 1: Peter has such a gift for having ideas and inspirations 1564 01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:19,719 Speaker 1: and what might work. So the album was done. When 1565 01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:24,200 Speaker 1: so the album was done, the tracking was done quickly. 1566 01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:29,040 Speaker 1: Throughout the rest of that fall. We would grab like 1567 01:44:29,120 --> 01:44:33,479 Speaker 1: three days here a week there would we would we 1568 01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:37,760 Speaker 1: cobbled together a really nice schedule with you know, you 1569 01:44:37,800 --> 01:44:40,479 Speaker 1: could probably get that from him. I probably have it. 1570 01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,920 Speaker 1: If I went through my we usually would book like 1571 01:44:44,240 --> 01:44:46,880 Speaker 1: a streak of days like it would be, you know, 1572 01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:50,559 Speaker 1: we're going to work Thursday through Sunday this week. You know, 1573 01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:53,880 Speaker 1: we wasn't every day. I guess what I'm asking is, 1574 01:44:54,439 --> 01:44:57,960 Speaker 1: if it is now essentially April twenty three, when was 1575 01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:02,759 Speaker 1: the album done completed. Oh, it was done in the fall. 1576 01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:05,880 Speaker 1: It was done in the fall of twenty It was completed, 1577 01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:09,120 Speaker 1: i'd say with all the mastering, I mean the mixing 1578 01:45:09,200 --> 01:45:12,120 Speaker 1: part of it, because then there's that, there's the recording part, 1579 01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:15,960 Speaker 1: and then there's the mixing part. And there were dates 1580 01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:18,679 Speaker 1: book to have the string quartet because suddenly we wanted 1581 01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:22,640 Speaker 1: string quartet on everything. It started with one song and 1582 01:45:22,640 --> 01:45:26,920 Speaker 1: then it just spiraled out of control. Not out of 1583 01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:30,000 Speaker 1: control in a bad way, kids, in a candy storeway, 1584 01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:36,679 Speaker 1: is what I mean with that. We just couldn't resist. Yeah, 1585 01:45:36,680 --> 01:45:40,320 Speaker 1: So we had to be careful because everybody had certain commitments. 1586 01:45:40,360 --> 01:45:44,200 Speaker 1: I had to juggle with between book and music, you know, 1587 01:45:44,320 --> 01:45:47,840 Speaker 1: so and Peter had things. Yeah, but it worked out. 1588 01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:51,280 Speaker 1: So you're saying the album was done in the fall 1589 01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:57,360 Speaker 1: of completed in the fall of twenty twenty two. Yes, okay. 1590 01:45:57,560 --> 01:46:00,360 Speaker 1: So was it a conscious decision to release the book 1591 01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:04,479 Speaker 1: in the album simultaneously. I hadn't thought of it, but 1592 01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:08,639 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the conversations as we were nearing 1593 01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:12,559 Speaker 1: my book release, I mean inching towards it, and I 1594 01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:18,000 Speaker 1: was already starting to promote the book and work on 1595 01:46:18,040 --> 01:46:24,960 Speaker 1: the game plan for that Russell Carter and let's see 1596 01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:30,200 Speaker 1: it would have been. I ended up having two publicists, 1597 01:46:30,840 --> 01:46:35,519 Speaker 1: Carla and Nicole, Nicole More coming from book World and 1598 01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:39,040 Speaker 1: Carla from Music World. Everybody put their heads together and 1599 01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:41,080 Speaker 1: we had I think we had a zoom or something 1600 01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:44,400 Speaker 1: to discuss what the how the rollout would go with 1601 01:46:44,439 --> 01:46:47,240 Speaker 1: these two big projects that I've been working on for 1602 01:46:47,280 --> 01:46:53,080 Speaker 1: so long, and it was deemed that maybe we put 1603 01:46:53,120 --> 01:46:57,519 Speaker 1: them out on the same day. Here we are, what 1604 01:46:57,560 --> 01:47:01,800 Speaker 1: the hell? Going back to the album, how'd you pick 1605 01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:06,559 Speaker 1: Black Coffee in Bed? Well, I love that song. You know, 1606 01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:11,160 Speaker 1: as a person who loves music, you know, I can't 1607 01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:15,200 Speaker 1: help us sing along to certain songs, and that was 1608 01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:19,040 Speaker 1: one of them. And also Squeeze were really important to 1609 01:47:19,080 --> 01:47:22,040 Speaker 1: me in the eighties because I discovered them. It was 1610 01:47:22,120 --> 01:47:24,800 Speaker 1: right when the Bengals were happening, and so there were 1611 01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:27,880 Speaker 1: certain bands that you would be very aware of because 1612 01:47:27,880 --> 01:47:29,960 Speaker 1: you were all putting out records at the same time. 1613 01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:33,559 Speaker 1: And I just have always had a passion for the 1614 01:47:33,680 --> 01:47:36,920 Speaker 1: music of Squeeze. Well, it's just funny because that was 1615 01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:41,760 Speaker 1: the subsequent album to the one with Tempted and Paul 1616 01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:44,760 Speaker 1: Carrick had already gone and I love that song, but 1617 01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:48,320 Speaker 1: nobody ever talks about it. Tempted. I love it. You 1618 01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:51,120 Speaker 1: talking about black No, no, I'm talking about black coffee 1619 01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:54,040 Speaker 1: and bids. Oh no, I love it. I'm glad you 1620 01:47:54,120 --> 01:47:57,360 Speaker 1: love it too. I just love it. And how about 1621 01:47:57,800 --> 01:48:02,120 Speaker 1: only you? How did only you the well? I so 1622 01:48:02,240 --> 01:48:05,800 Speaker 1: I always whenever I love that song so much, and 1623 01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:08,800 Speaker 1: again it brings me back to the decade when the 1624 01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:14,960 Speaker 1: Bengals were here, there and everywhere. But I whenever that 1625 01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:18,200 Speaker 1: song comes on, I always sang the high harmony to it. 1626 01:48:18,280 --> 01:48:20,920 Speaker 1: I just made up a harmony, and I always wanted to. 1627 01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:23,240 Speaker 1: When I used to do shows at Largo in La 1628 01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:26,400 Speaker 1: I always wanted to cover that song and sing a 1629 01:48:26,479 --> 01:48:29,120 Speaker 1: high harmony on it. And then it's just I think 1630 01:48:29,160 --> 01:48:31,920 Speaker 1: I just mentioned it to Peter that I loved it. 1631 01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:34,559 Speaker 1: I think it was that was one that was my idea, 1632 01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:37,200 Speaker 1: and I told him about my idea of just having 1633 01:48:37,240 --> 01:48:39,960 Speaker 1: it be like sort of a duet with myself, and 1634 01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:44,240 Speaker 1: that's how that happened. Have you met Alison Moye? No, 1635 01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:48,000 Speaker 1: I want to. She's cool. She's a very regular person. 1636 01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:53,640 Speaker 1: And how about you don't own me? Well? Well, you 1637 01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:57,840 Speaker 1: know that is one of the early examples of a 1638 01:48:57,920 --> 01:49:04,719 Speaker 1: kind of feminist and I met Leslie Gorett some something 1639 01:49:05,439 --> 01:49:08,880 Speaker 1: once there was like a convention or something, or some 1640 01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:14,160 Speaker 1: music business thing. But I've always liked the music again, 1641 01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:17,519 Speaker 1: of all of that whole period, and I just always 1642 01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:20,679 Speaker 1: thought that was kind of a badass little number that song. 1643 01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:23,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mean to say really little number. 1644 01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:26,360 Speaker 1: It's a big number. It's a it's a defiant song, 1645 01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:28,920 Speaker 1: and I just really it really spoke to me, and 1646 01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:31,599 Speaker 1: I think this may be the case for a lot 1647 01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:36,080 Speaker 1: of people. Perhaps a lot of women in particular, would 1648 01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:40,240 Speaker 1: would find that song meaningful. So it was fun to 1649 01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:43,799 Speaker 1: take it on. Okay, dee Le's just say, twenty twenty 1650 01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:47,559 Speaker 1: three is very different from nineteen eighty three. And back 1651 01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:49,519 Speaker 1: in those days, the hardest thing was to get a 1652 01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:52,519 Speaker 1: major label deal. If you did, they promoted you a 1653 01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:55,559 Speaker 1: certain amount. You hit or you didn't hit, whereas today 1654 01:49:55,720 --> 01:50:00,240 Speaker 1: it's a vast cornucopia of all kinds of music. How 1655 01:50:00,280 --> 01:50:04,040 Speaker 1: do you get people to listen to this music become 1656 01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:07,240 Speaker 1: aware of it? I don't know. I'm doing everything that 1657 01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:10,479 Speaker 1: I can. I worry about it. It keeps me up 1658 01:50:10,479 --> 01:50:14,880 Speaker 1: at night. I'm doing my best. There's this thing called 1659 01:50:15,240 --> 01:50:19,639 Speaker 1: social media, and I've discovered that it is very useful, 1660 01:50:21,960 --> 01:50:26,080 Speaker 1: but it's it's it's work, you know, it's work in 1661 01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:29,519 Speaker 1: a sense because you have to create a lot of content. 1662 01:50:29,640 --> 01:50:32,599 Speaker 1: So it's this it's a new fun job. But it's 1663 01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:36,680 Speaker 1: again because everything is fueled by kind of an indie 1664 01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:41,000 Speaker 1: spirit and zeitgeist and how I approach all these things. 1665 01:50:41,200 --> 01:50:45,320 Speaker 1: No record company, you know, just doing everything as a 1666 01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:48,639 Speaker 1: just waking up in the morning and going, okay, let's 1667 01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:51,120 Speaker 1: make some art. What we're going to do here, and 1668 01:50:51,160 --> 01:50:53,200 Speaker 1: how do we promote these things? So it's really just 1669 01:50:53,360 --> 01:50:57,479 Speaker 1: making little videos. I mean the days that I can 1670 01:50:57,520 --> 01:51:02,080 Speaker 1: remember of the big video shoots that being on Columbia 1671 01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:06,000 Speaker 1: Records and all of what that was. I mean, at 1672 01:51:06,080 --> 01:51:09,160 Speaker 1: least especially during a pandemic, I've been able to just 1673 01:51:09,240 --> 01:51:14,880 Speaker 1: go around it with this little thing and make a 1674 01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:17,320 Speaker 1: little movie and send it to someone who can help 1675 01:51:17,360 --> 01:51:19,559 Speaker 1: me edit it. I have a partner that helps me 1676 01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:22,000 Speaker 1: with that because I'm no good with the editing with tech. 1677 01:51:22,600 --> 01:51:27,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's what we're doing. TikTok kind of changed things. 1678 01:51:27,439 --> 01:51:31,240 Speaker 1: Instagram changed things. There's loads of indie creators just putting 1679 01:51:31,280 --> 01:51:35,000 Speaker 1: their stuff on there and spreading it. That way well 1680 01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:38,880 Speaker 1: before we booked this on TikTok, I came across you 1681 01:51:39,439 --> 01:51:44,880 Speaker 1: singing some of my ear quotes here greatest hits a cappella. 1682 01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:49,200 Speaker 1: Did that just start or you said, oh man, I 1683 01:51:49,360 --> 01:51:51,920 Speaker 1: have to do promote my book in my album, let 1684 01:51:52,000 --> 01:51:55,120 Speaker 1: me do something. Well. The first ones that I did 1685 01:51:55,280 --> 01:51:58,880 Speaker 1: was just really in the deep dark pandemic days when 1686 01:51:59,120 --> 01:52:02,200 Speaker 1: people were not even and leaving their house. And I 1687 01:52:02,200 --> 01:52:06,000 Speaker 1: thought I'd already had a little social media on Twitter, 1688 01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:10,519 Speaker 1: maybe I just started Instagram. I was pretty late to 1689 01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:14,439 Speaker 1: the TikTok party, but I'm there now and I just 1690 01:52:14,600 --> 01:52:17,760 Speaker 1: put put the old version of this thing. I set 1691 01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:21,679 Speaker 1: it on my piano over there, and I just I thought, 1692 01:52:22,680 --> 01:52:25,160 Speaker 1: what should I do? How can I express myself? And 1693 01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:28,200 Speaker 1: I just did this one clip of me singing man Monday, 1694 01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:30,559 Speaker 1: and I had no idea it would connect so much 1695 01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:34,320 Speaker 1: with people, just me alone in my house, not with 1696 01:52:34,360 --> 01:52:38,080 Speaker 1: the band, not with anybody, but just solo. And I 1697 01:52:38,160 --> 01:52:42,080 Speaker 1: realized that I had this opportunity not only to explore 1698 01:52:43,080 --> 01:52:47,719 Speaker 1: the concept of being the folk seatinger that I started 1699 01:52:47,760 --> 01:52:50,320 Speaker 1: out as when I was that little girl and my 1700 01:52:50,439 --> 01:52:54,080 Speaker 1: uncle Carmy gave me that first giant guitar when I 1701 01:52:54,120 --> 01:52:57,599 Speaker 1: was eight. Like, I'm actually been asked on the book 1702 01:52:57,600 --> 01:52:59,800 Speaker 1: tour will I bring a guitar or will I sing 1703 01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:04,400 Speaker 1: a little bit? I'm honestly terrified because it's one thing 1704 01:53:04,439 --> 01:53:06,839 Speaker 1: to do it in your living room, and it's another 1705 01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,160 Speaker 1: thing to do it in front of people. But I'm 1706 01:53:10,200 --> 01:53:13,000 Speaker 1: bringing the guitar tomorrow when I get on the plane, 1707 01:53:13,680 --> 01:53:16,880 Speaker 1: and I have all these notes here. I just I'm 1708 01:53:16,920 --> 01:53:22,200 Speaker 1: making these little little notes because I've gotten myself so 1709 01:53:23,040 --> 01:53:26,800 Speaker 1: nervous about it. Here's my under my thumb. It says, oh, 1710 01:53:27,120 --> 01:53:29,880 Speaker 1: different drum in case I do that Capo four. This 1711 01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:34,240 Speaker 1: is me scribbling, scribbling it out, like I'm really just 1712 01:53:34,400 --> 01:53:37,759 Speaker 1: after this call. That's what I gotta do is figure 1713 01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:40,320 Speaker 1: out you know, I know I can do it in 1714 01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:42,400 Speaker 1: my living room, but can I do it in front 1715 01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:44,639 Speaker 1: of people at a at a bookstore? I think, So, 1716 01:53:45,200 --> 01:53:48,240 Speaker 1: what do you think, Bob? Well, you know, different people, 1717 01:53:48,920 --> 01:53:53,040 Speaker 1: without mentioning some famous names, they really need to warm 1718 01:53:53,160 --> 01:53:59,080 Speaker 1: up to produce the sound that they're famous for, Whereas 1719 01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:01,519 Speaker 1: it seemed very very natural with you. So I have 1720 01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:03,800 Speaker 1: to ask, can you just okay if I ask you 1721 01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:06,000 Speaker 1: sing a couple of bars a different drum right now. 1722 01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:09,080 Speaker 1: Could you do it? Absolutely? Yeah, I could do it. 1723 01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:15,360 Speaker 1: So the anxiety is just that other people will be there. No, 1724 01:54:15,720 --> 01:54:19,400 Speaker 1: the anxiety is just this natural anxiety that I feel 1725 01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:22,040 Speaker 1: before I opened my mouth and let the sound come out. 1726 01:54:22,560 --> 01:54:26,559 Speaker 1: But then when I do it, I go, oh yeah, 1727 01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:31,720 Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like a two personalities. It's like 1728 01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:36,640 Speaker 1: a split personality. It's like than me that might overthink 1729 01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:39,040 Speaker 1: or freak out and being it's just like my character 1730 01:54:39,120 --> 01:54:41,200 Speaker 1: in the book. Actually, I was able to write that 1731 01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:44,600 Speaker 1: because I know what that's like. I do have to 1732 01:54:44,680 --> 01:54:48,520 Speaker 1: kind of flip a switch and just go, Okay, I'm 1733 01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:51,480 Speaker 1: not chattering and schmoozing and talking with someone. I have 1734 01:54:51,560 --> 01:54:56,640 Speaker 1: to like produce this sound out of my throat and 1735 01:54:56,840 --> 01:55:03,839 Speaker 1: also stop my brain from subtitling, subtitling some other inner monologue. 1736 01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:06,360 Speaker 1: I just have to be in a singular focus with it. 1737 01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:09,360 Speaker 1: And so that'll be a little bit tricky because well, 1738 01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:11,520 Speaker 1: we'll see what happens when I get to the strand 1739 01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:14,920 Speaker 1: in New York City, you know, because the ideas like 1740 01:55:14,960 --> 01:55:17,960 Speaker 1: we're Q and ang and then there's like an idea 1741 01:55:18,000 --> 01:55:21,320 Speaker 1: will trigger well, here's a little bit of something that 1742 01:55:21,400 --> 01:55:24,800 Speaker 1: goes with that so I told Jay's the thing I'm 1743 01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:30,560 Speaker 1: most nervous about because I haven't really ever sung like 1744 01:55:30,760 --> 01:55:34,040 Speaker 1: this this way, like completely alone with my guitar, though 1745 01:55:34,040 --> 01:55:35,720 Speaker 1: he hears me do it in the house and you've 1746 01:55:35,760 --> 01:55:39,200 Speaker 1: heard me do it in the house when I think, oh, 1747 01:55:39,480 --> 01:55:42,000 Speaker 1: put the camera on myself. This is something for social 1748 01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:46,240 Speaker 1: media to share. Do you normally have stage fright when 1749 01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:49,280 Speaker 1: you're on with a band or this is unique? I 1750 01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:52,880 Speaker 1: do have stage right. I have to overcome my stage right. 1751 01:55:54,160 --> 01:55:59,200 Speaker 1: I do, I do, okay, And obviously the goal of 1752 01:55:59,320 --> 01:56:04,120 Speaker 1: social media is to have a viral moment. Obviously, you 1753 01:56:04,280 --> 01:56:08,480 Speaker 1: go on these platforms, although your usual audience is going 1754 01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:12,200 Speaker 1: to be an older demo, you reach those people. Have 1755 01:56:12,360 --> 01:56:16,480 Speaker 1: you found yourself reaching new people? Well, that's the goal, 1756 01:56:17,000 --> 01:56:21,400 Speaker 1: And just as of recently, I'm starting to see the 1757 01:56:24,920 --> 01:56:28,760 Speaker 1: scales change in a way, in a positive way. I'm 1758 01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:31,840 Speaker 1: so grateful for anyone who wants to find me there 1759 01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:36,160 Speaker 1: and for long time fans. But I've been hoping, really 1760 01:56:36,200 --> 01:56:40,400 Speaker 1: hoping to connect with a new audience and also with women, 1761 01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:45,880 Speaker 1: young women too because for whatever reason, and I think 1762 01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:48,640 Speaker 1: and I don't know, I don't have statistics here, Bob, 1763 01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:51,600 Speaker 1: but the go Gos had a very big, big, big 1764 01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:55,360 Speaker 1: female fan base, as did I think Madonna. I'm thinking 1765 01:56:55,400 --> 01:57:00,360 Speaker 1: of our eighties selves, and weirdly, the Bengals had the 1766 01:57:00,440 --> 01:57:03,480 Speaker 1: scales were tipped more heavily towards a male audience, and 1767 01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:06,600 Speaker 1: I never really understood it, but I've always wanted to 1768 01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:11,600 Speaker 1: connect with, you know, have the balance be a little 1769 01:57:11,600 --> 01:57:15,320 Speaker 1: bit more equal. So I'm feeling that now. Interestingly, I 1770 01:57:15,360 --> 01:57:19,080 Speaker 1: think the book because the character is a female, that 1771 01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:23,919 Speaker 1: the protagonist is a female woman, a female woman. Obviously 1772 01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:29,840 Speaker 1: this is me. I need more coffee. Do you edit 1773 01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:31,840 Speaker 1: this thing or do you just use it? Oh, we 1774 01:57:31,880 --> 01:57:34,400 Speaker 1: don't add. Everything you're saying is great, But let me 1775 01:57:34,560 --> 01:57:36,680 Speaker 1: switch to a couple of gears here. Yeah. Yeah, you 1776 01:57:36,800 --> 01:57:41,000 Speaker 1: made these couple of albums with Matthew Sweet. Yeah. Are 1777 01:57:41,080 --> 01:57:44,920 Speaker 1: you the networker or is it more like Peter Rasher 1778 01:57:45,000 --> 01:57:49,400 Speaker 1: you're just fielding phone calls? Oh, networker in terms of 1779 01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:53,560 Speaker 1: making it happen to reaching out to do it. Yes, Um, 1780 01:57:55,240 --> 01:58:02,160 Speaker 1: I'm pretty staunch in my you know, sort of work 1781 01:58:02,240 --> 01:58:05,840 Speaker 1: ethic to kind of like not hesitate to reach out 1782 01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:11,360 Speaker 1: to people. I can be the one to instigate in 1783 01:58:11,400 --> 01:58:14,760 Speaker 1: the process of working with Matthew Sweet, it was quite interesting. 1784 01:58:14,800 --> 01:58:18,360 Speaker 1: He was the magical wizard doing all the wizardry with 1785 01:58:18,520 --> 01:58:21,640 Speaker 1: the with the technology that that I when you said 1786 01:58:21,680 --> 01:58:25,080 Speaker 1: that I missed heard or understood what you're saying. I 1787 01:58:25,080 --> 01:58:28,040 Speaker 1: immediately thought about my dynamic with Matthew and that brought 1788 01:58:28,080 --> 01:58:31,200 Speaker 1: me to that thought. But no, I'm gonna go get 1789 01:58:31,280 --> 01:58:35,880 Speaker 1: them kind of person. I don't wait. I I once 1790 01:58:35,920 --> 01:58:38,640 Speaker 1: I have an idea, I throw myself into the deep 1791 01:58:38,760 --> 01:58:42,000 Speaker 1: end to plug the album title there. But and I 1792 01:58:42,160 --> 01:58:46,680 Speaker 1: just start dog paddling or whatever it takes to sort 1793 01:58:46,720 --> 01:58:51,800 Speaker 1: of rally the project, rally the troops, make it happen 1794 01:58:52,160 --> 01:58:56,400 Speaker 1: because I just I'm fueled by being in process with 1795 01:58:56,640 --> 01:59:00,360 Speaker 1: a creative project. That's what I wake up in the morning, going, okay, what, 1796 01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:05,320 Speaker 1: let's let's get in Let's let's get some paint on 1797 01:59:05,360 --> 01:59:09,520 Speaker 1: the canvas, let's, you know, tune the guitar, let's you know. 1798 01:59:09,600 --> 01:59:13,160 Speaker 1: I just what, I'm so fortunate that I can do this. 1799 01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:16,360 Speaker 1: And how did you actually hook up with Matthew Sweet 1800 01:59:16,360 --> 01:59:20,000 Speaker 1: to make those records? Um, we had done a show 1801 01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:24,520 Speaker 1: at McCabe's together the Bengals and Matthew and I had 1802 01:59:24,520 --> 01:59:27,400 Speaker 1: brought Mike Myers to see Matthew that we may have 1803 01:59:27,480 --> 01:59:32,280 Speaker 1: talked about that already, and that's ming te Um. We 1804 01:59:32,280 --> 01:59:34,480 Speaker 1: had done the band for Austin Powers. We were in 1805 01:59:34,520 --> 01:59:38,200 Speaker 1: the band. We created the band with Mike, and Matthew 1806 01:59:38,280 --> 01:59:42,800 Speaker 1: was there part of it. Um. I guess at some 1807 01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:47,080 Speaker 1: point it came up after the McCabe show that the 1808 01:59:47,120 --> 01:59:52,600 Speaker 1: Bengals and Matthew had been at that we should do something. 1809 01:59:52,720 --> 01:59:55,200 Speaker 1: And then he brought me up to his house and 1810 01:59:55,320 --> 01:59:59,640 Speaker 1: I've met his wonderful wife, who I'd known because she worked. 1811 01:59:59,680 --> 02:00:03,160 Speaker 1: She was part of the Austin Powers team. If it's 1812 02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:06,080 Speaker 1: very complicated, but it's all good. It's just that I'm 1813 02:00:06,120 --> 02:00:09,280 Speaker 1: trying to go back in time and sort of pull 1814 02:00:09,440 --> 02:00:15,120 Speaker 1: threads from different eras of my life. But Matthew had 1815 02:00:15,120 --> 02:00:18,600 Speaker 1: this incredible space up on up in the hills of 1816 02:00:20,280 --> 02:00:23,960 Speaker 1: Hollywood where he had an amazing studio and all this 1817 02:00:24,080 --> 02:00:27,960 Speaker 1: crazy art everywhere and all the art that he was making. 1818 02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:32,160 Speaker 1: He was just one of the most dedicated artistic souls 1819 02:00:32,200 --> 02:00:35,600 Speaker 1: I've ever met. It didn't just stop at music. He 1820 02:00:35,720 --> 02:00:40,560 Speaker 1: was making sculpture, he was painting, collecting art. So we 1821 02:00:40,680 --> 02:00:44,200 Speaker 1: just started to go up there and I basically, sort 1822 02:00:44,240 --> 02:00:48,040 Speaker 1: of like with Peter We basically pitched around song ideas, 1823 02:00:48,720 --> 02:00:51,280 Speaker 1: what could we record? And we got very giddy kids 1824 02:00:51,320 --> 02:00:53,560 Speaker 1: in a candy store, as how I described it with 1825 02:00:53,640 --> 02:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Matthew for sure, I remember the day on the second 1826 02:00:57,280 --> 02:01:01,200 Speaker 1: record when we were broaching the idea of doing a 1827 02:01:01,320 --> 02:01:05,240 Speaker 1: seventies one in a second record. He we we're on 1828 02:01:05,280 --> 02:01:09,720 Speaker 1: a call together and the concept of doing Prague adding 1829 02:01:09,720 --> 02:01:14,160 Speaker 1: in Prague rock to what we were intending to do. 1830 02:01:15,240 --> 02:01:20,240 Speaker 1: Um and I've seen all good people. Your move was 1831 02:01:20,280 --> 02:01:22,560 Speaker 1: the one that we chose. Um and that was one 1832 02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:25,440 Speaker 1: of my favorite ones to sing. I remember that moment 1833 02:01:25,560 --> 02:01:29,640 Speaker 1: that was that was the life changing moment. Do you 1834 02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:32,800 Speaker 1: you have a unique voice? When did you realize that? 1835 02:01:32,880 --> 02:01:36,120 Speaker 1: And are you self conscious about the way it sounds? 1836 02:01:36,640 --> 02:01:44,960 Speaker 1: You mean like my singing voice? Yes? Um? I and 1837 02:01:45,120 --> 02:01:49,640 Speaker 1: my self conscious? Did you ask? Sorry? And yes yeah? Um. 1838 02:01:50,920 --> 02:01:54,280 Speaker 1: I think I just have that built in stage fright thing. So, 1839 02:01:54,440 --> 02:01:56,760 Speaker 1: but early as a child, it was sort of how 1840 02:01:56,800 --> 02:02:00,200 Speaker 1: I lulled myself. It was almost like I've been told 1841 02:02:00,240 --> 02:02:02,720 Speaker 1: that I rocked back and forth a lot too. I 1842 02:02:02,760 --> 02:02:08,080 Speaker 1: don't know. There's always a rhythm going on and in 1843 02:02:08,160 --> 02:02:14,320 Speaker 1: my head a little bit, and I think that it 1844 02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:18,720 Speaker 1: was kind of delighting even to myself, when I realized 1845 02:02:18,760 --> 02:02:22,520 Speaker 1: I could sing along and mimic records, I could try 1846 02:02:22,520 --> 02:02:24,640 Speaker 1: to be like a minor bird. My mom always said, 1847 02:02:24,640 --> 02:02:27,240 Speaker 1: you're like a minor bird. I guess minor birds are 1848 02:02:27,240 --> 02:02:31,720 Speaker 1: the ones that can learn speech and can mimic speech. 1849 02:02:32,680 --> 02:02:35,120 Speaker 1: And I started to get like it was almost like 1850 02:02:35,160 --> 02:02:41,760 Speaker 1: a hypnotic meditation to drop the needle on a Jonie 1851 02:02:41,800 --> 02:02:45,720 Speaker 1: Mitchell record, for example, and sing a song, for example, 1852 02:02:45,800 --> 02:02:48,920 Speaker 1: like you turn me on I'm a Radio, and just 1853 02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:55,040 Speaker 1: try to like fit in with what she was singing 1854 02:02:55,080 --> 02:02:59,200 Speaker 1: and sing along as perfectly as I could, with that 1855 02:02:59,680 --> 02:03:05,240 Speaker 1: fair sort of spontaneous melodizing that she does in her 1856 02:03:05,280 --> 02:03:09,800 Speaker 1: songwriting and her performing. And then the same was true 1857 02:03:09,800 --> 02:03:13,080 Speaker 1: with all these artists that I would sing to along too, 1858 02:03:13,160 --> 02:03:16,520 Speaker 1: And I even sang along to those early Beatles records 1859 02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:23,240 Speaker 1: my mom brought home. Yeah, so singing along was kind 1860 02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:28,600 Speaker 1: of a meditation, and I guess I realized that my 1861 02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:33,120 Speaker 1: voice was complying you if I think about it in 1862 02:03:33,160 --> 02:03:35,880 Speaker 1: a certain way, it was doing it. It was able 1863 02:03:35,920 --> 02:03:38,560 Speaker 1: to do it. And the more I did it, to 1864 02:03:38,680 --> 02:03:41,520 Speaker 1: the chagrin of my family, hearing me over and over 1865 02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:47,920 Speaker 1: again singing to certain records, the more I became confident. Oh, 1866 02:03:48,000 --> 02:03:51,160 Speaker 1: it is an instrument that I have and I can 1867 02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:53,920 Speaker 1: use it, and I just have to learn how to 1868 02:03:54,200 --> 02:03:57,720 Speaker 1: keep teaching myself how to use it by mimicking other 1869 02:03:57,760 --> 02:04:00,440 Speaker 1: people who do it. Well, that's how the process this was. 1870 02:04:01,760 --> 02:04:06,840 Speaker 1: And do you still paint and draw today? Yeah? I 1871 02:04:06,880 --> 02:04:10,560 Speaker 1: don't share much of that, but I do not so 1872 02:04:10,680 --> 02:04:15,000 Speaker 1: much painting, but but drawing. Yeah. And then how many 1873 02:04:15,040 --> 02:04:18,160 Speaker 1: siblings do you have? I have an older brother named John, 1874 02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:20,800 Speaker 1: and Jesse is my younger brother. And what are they 1875 02:04:20,880 --> 02:04:26,480 Speaker 1: up to every day? Um? John is a very excellent writer, 1876 02:04:27,480 --> 02:04:32,160 Speaker 1: as is Jesse, although Jesse they both didn't really do that, 1877 02:04:32,600 --> 02:04:38,080 Speaker 1: you know, as a career. Um, Jesse practices law and 1878 02:04:38,160 --> 02:04:43,560 Speaker 1: he works. Both of my brothers. My brother was uh, 1879 02:04:44,160 --> 02:04:48,040 Speaker 1: worked for the Tennessee prison system as a as a 1880 02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:53,960 Speaker 1: therapist and had group therapy, you know, into that's what 1881 02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:57,760 Speaker 1: he did. And Jesse interestingly does a lot of stuff 1882 02:04:58,560 --> 02:05:01,640 Speaker 1: in the in the LA prisons systems. To league, you know, 1883 02:05:02,240 --> 02:05:09,680 Speaker 1: represents people a thing as driven as you are. I 1884 02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:12,840 Speaker 1: don't think so not. I mean I think I don't know, 1885 02:05:13,760 --> 02:05:17,520 Speaker 1: I can't really say, but I think that that that 1886 02:05:17,680 --> 02:05:21,320 Speaker 1: is something that this sort of burning drive that I 1887 02:05:21,400 --> 02:05:24,200 Speaker 1: have to do these things. I don't know what accounts 1888 02:05:24,240 --> 02:05:27,920 Speaker 1: for it, except I do think my childhood set me 1889 02:05:28,000 --> 02:05:30,000 Speaker 1: up for it, or set me up with the idea 1890 02:05:30,080 --> 02:05:35,000 Speaker 1: that I've found this kind of bliss of disappearing into 1891 02:05:35,000 --> 02:05:42,320 Speaker 1: this kind of process oriented work, and and that it 1892 02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:45,800 Speaker 1: allows for my imagination to be triggered and a sense 1893 02:05:45,800 --> 02:05:52,920 Speaker 1: of play. And I just I'm very grateful that that 1894 02:05:53,120 --> 02:05:56,840 Speaker 1: I've had the opportunity to spend so much time making 1895 02:05:57,040 --> 02:06:00,880 Speaker 1: art in all these different forms. And what was it 1896 02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:06,040 Speaker 1: like growing up? Is the middle child, the only girl? Well, 1897 02:06:06,080 --> 02:06:08,360 Speaker 1: I think the fact that I was the only girl 1898 02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:13,200 Speaker 1: gave me a little bit of a special place that 1899 02:06:13,280 --> 02:06:17,840 Speaker 1: my brothers may not be resented that I had. That said, 1900 02:06:18,200 --> 02:06:22,720 Speaker 1: I think that some of the sassiness in the book, 1901 02:06:23,560 --> 02:06:30,000 Speaker 1: and I think having all this boy energy from my 1902 02:06:30,120 --> 02:06:37,800 Speaker 1: brothers and being all adolescents together was informative and it 1903 02:06:37,840 --> 02:06:41,640 Speaker 1: gave me a hint into, you know, just how to 1904 02:06:41,680 --> 02:06:47,960 Speaker 1: write about the human experience. And I just found my 1905 02:06:48,040 --> 02:06:51,680 Speaker 1: family to be kind of endlessly entertaining in all their 1906 02:06:51,800 --> 02:06:56,960 Speaker 1: function and dysfunction. Dysfunction is very interesting to write about. 1907 02:06:57,520 --> 02:07:00,400 Speaker 1: I like to write characters who have dysfunction and because 1908 02:07:00,400 --> 02:07:04,839 Speaker 1: otherwise it's boring if everybody's perfect and like a robot, 1909 02:07:05,600 --> 02:07:11,480 Speaker 1: you know. So I like idiosyncratic in idiosyncrasies in characters. 1910 02:07:11,520 --> 02:07:14,960 Speaker 1: I like characters who behave badly. I like characters that 1911 02:07:15,040 --> 02:07:18,760 Speaker 1: we love to dislike. I mean, I just I just like. 1912 02:07:20,760 --> 02:07:24,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. It adds interest to things, and I 1913 02:07:24,640 --> 02:07:27,840 Speaker 1: think it's it's been fun to write about. Okay, And 1914 02:07:27,960 --> 02:07:30,840 Speaker 1: going back to the scene in the eighties, and there 1915 02:07:31,040 --> 02:07:36,440 Speaker 1: was a scene Bangals were very successful. There were other 1916 02:07:36,480 --> 02:07:41,400 Speaker 1: acts that got some notoriety at the time. What happened 1917 02:07:41,400 --> 02:07:44,240 Speaker 1: to all those people and do you have any contact 1918 02:07:44,320 --> 02:07:48,360 Speaker 1: with them? Well, some of the Paisley Underground, so called 1919 02:07:48,880 --> 02:07:54,440 Speaker 1: scenesters are still around. I still very recently I called 1920 02:07:54,600 --> 02:07:58,800 Speaker 1: Lewis Gutierres. We stayed in touch. We dated back then 1921 02:07:59,320 --> 02:08:02,160 Speaker 1: he was in UM. It was originally hit the band 1922 02:08:02,240 --> 02:08:04,400 Speaker 1: was called Salvation Army, then they were called the Three 1923 02:08:04,440 --> 02:08:09,600 Speaker 1: o'clock UM. I've stayed in touch with other members of 1924 02:08:09,640 --> 02:08:16,880 Speaker 1: the in quotes basically underground UM. There are there are 1925 02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:21,839 Speaker 1: things that have brought us together, sort of concerts, often 1926 02:08:21,920 --> 02:08:28,680 Speaker 1: for charitable organizations that you know that raising money for 1927 02:08:29,400 --> 02:08:34,480 Speaker 1: really really important causes we've done, We've all reunited for 1928 02:08:34,560 --> 02:08:39,160 Speaker 1: those those concerts. Um, what went back to your question 1929 02:08:39,200 --> 02:08:42,280 Speaker 1: against specifics. Okay, so you stayed in contact with those people. 1930 02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:46,480 Speaker 1: Those people were relatively successful, they brought records. But what 1931 02:08:46,520 --> 02:08:49,520 Speaker 1: are they doing all day? You have the luxury of 1932 02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:53,040 Speaker 1: having the hits that are licensed, etc. How are all 1933 02:08:53,080 --> 02:08:55,720 Speaker 1: these people staying alive? And are these good stories or 1934 02:08:55,800 --> 02:09:02,200 Speaker 1: bad stories? Mostly good, I would say, I mean some 1935 02:09:02,440 --> 02:09:07,080 Speaker 1: of them have gone onto non music or entertainment related 1936 02:09:07,240 --> 02:09:11,080 Speaker 1: jobs like um, some of them have you know, our 1937 02:09:11,480 --> 02:09:18,160 Speaker 1: work in businesses and for companies or stockbrokers or educators, 1938 02:09:18,480 --> 02:09:23,879 Speaker 1: you know. I but the yeah, so I I everyone 1939 02:09:23,960 --> 02:09:27,800 Speaker 1: seems to be doing okay. So so no sad stories, 1940 02:09:27,840 --> 02:09:32,160 Speaker 1: no burnouts, no ods, etc. No, I mean I've been 1941 02:09:32,240 --> 02:09:37,080 Speaker 1: lucky that way, you know. And I think my partners 1942 02:09:37,080 --> 02:09:40,280 Speaker 1: in the Bengals are all ensconced in m and No, 1943 02:09:40,480 --> 02:09:45,320 Speaker 1: Vicki's always staying creative. She just went to Europe in fact, 1944 02:09:45,400 --> 02:09:49,240 Speaker 1: to do a run of shows that were Paisley Underground. 1945 02:09:50,680 --> 02:09:54,480 Speaker 1: People involved with those and performing in Europe. So I 1946 02:09:54,560 --> 02:09:56,680 Speaker 1: know that I spoke with her recently and she was 1947 02:09:56,800 --> 02:10:01,520 Speaker 1: very thrilled about that. Okay, Susanna. Okay, let me ask you. 1948 02:10:01,520 --> 02:10:04,080 Speaker 1: Your name on the records that Susanna. How does your 1949 02:10:04,120 --> 02:10:09,000 Speaker 1: family refer to you as well? My parents are quite 1950 02:10:09,040 --> 02:10:11,640 Speaker 1: elderly now that I visit them as much as they can, 1951 02:10:11,680 --> 02:10:14,080 Speaker 1: and whenever I walk in the house, my dad says, 1952 02:10:14,120 --> 02:10:19,000 Speaker 1: Susannah bananas here. So he's been lately calling me Susanna 1953 02:10:19,080 --> 02:10:23,880 Speaker 1: Banana and um. He used to call me Zannie. That 1954 02:10:23,960 --> 02:10:29,840 Speaker 1: was my nickname. Some people call me Susie Quzi. I 1955 02:10:29,880 --> 02:10:32,360 Speaker 1: don't know. They can call me whatever the hell they want. 1956 02:10:32,840 --> 02:10:37,120 Speaker 1: I love them, I don't care. But um, yeah, I answered, 1957 02:10:37,400 --> 02:10:41,000 Speaker 1: I answer mostly to Sue and Susanna. I've never been 1958 02:10:41,000 --> 02:10:45,200 Speaker 1: a Susan. My ballet teacher who's I love and we're 1959 02:10:45,240 --> 02:10:48,280 Speaker 1: still in touch after all these years. He used to 1960 02:10:48,320 --> 02:10:52,000 Speaker 1: call me Susanne, and I was I was fine with that. 1961 02:10:52,520 --> 02:10:55,240 Speaker 1: The only the only one I don't really connect with 1962 02:10:55,480 --> 02:10:59,000 Speaker 1: is Susan. I don't feel like a Susan. I'm good, 1963 02:10:59,040 --> 02:11:02,400 Speaker 1: I'm okay with a Susanne. Susanna Banana is just fine. 1964 02:11:02,440 --> 02:11:07,240 Speaker 1: You're welcome to call me that. Bob. Yeah, that's that's 1965 02:11:07,320 --> 02:11:09,760 Speaker 1: sort of the answer to that. And your father was 1966 02:11:09,800 --> 02:11:14,120 Speaker 1: a psychoanalyst. What was your experience with therapy. Oh, I 1967 02:11:14,200 --> 02:11:18,800 Speaker 1: was heavily into it. I did on the couch psychoanalysis, 1968 02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:23,920 Speaker 1: you know, Freudian analysis in the eighties, and boy did 1969 02:11:23,960 --> 02:11:27,640 Speaker 1: I need it. It was very stressful. The music business. 1970 02:11:27,720 --> 02:11:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean, music is one thing, the music business is 1971 02:11:32,160 --> 02:11:36,400 Speaker 1: another beast Entirely. I think I just needed, you know, 1972 02:11:37,640 --> 02:11:41,080 Speaker 1: to have therapy then. And I'm glad that I was 1973 02:11:41,160 --> 02:11:43,440 Speaker 1: kind of early on the tip. I don't think had 1974 02:11:43,520 --> 02:11:47,760 Speaker 1: my father not been a psychiatrist psychoanalyst, I don't know 1975 02:11:47,840 --> 02:11:50,440 Speaker 1: that I would have even known to do it. But 1976 02:11:50,560 --> 02:11:54,920 Speaker 1: it was such a part of my childhood knowing that 1977 02:11:54,960 --> 02:11:57,840 Speaker 1: my father was helping all these people, and you know, 1978 02:11:57,880 --> 02:12:03,280 Speaker 1: it was really good at his job. You know. People 1979 02:12:03,320 --> 02:12:05,520 Speaker 1: always used to say, what's it like having a shrink 1980 02:12:05,560 --> 02:12:09,400 Speaker 1: for a dad, And I said, usually, he just reminds 1981 02:12:09,440 --> 02:12:14,160 Speaker 1: me that everyone's crazy. Everyone's crazy. It's not like you're 1982 02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:17,520 Speaker 1: the only one. So I suppose we all sort of 1983 02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:21,240 Speaker 1: need something to get us through this thing week called life. 1984 02:12:22,040 --> 02:12:24,680 Speaker 1: And so for me, I got, I got that psycho 1985 02:12:25,040 --> 02:12:28,560 Speaker 1: analytic treatment. They used to call it treatment in the 1986 02:12:28,800 --> 02:12:33,040 Speaker 1: uh just talk therapy, really, um, I got I got 1987 02:12:33,080 --> 02:12:36,360 Speaker 1: in early with that. And what about later days, you 1988 02:12:36,400 --> 02:12:39,360 Speaker 1: go back for a tune out. I did. I did 1989 02:12:39,440 --> 02:12:41,960 Speaker 1: need a tune up once I became a mom and 1990 02:12:43,160 --> 02:12:46,640 Speaker 1: just I definitely went back to the same person. I'm 1991 02:12:46,760 --> 02:12:52,120 Speaker 1: very fortunate. Yeah. And when it was psychoanalysis on the couch, 1992 02:12:52,320 --> 02:12:54,840 Speaker 1: it was multiple days a week, I presume always like 1993 02:12:54,880 --> 02:12:57,960 Speaker 1: four days a week, I mean a barring when I 1994 02:12:58,000 --> 02:13:01,960 Speaker 1: was on tour, you know, of course. Yeah, it was 1995 02:13:02,000 --> 02:13:05,680 Speaker 1: like traditional like when you watch watch Annie Hall or something, 1996 02:13:05,720 --> 02:13:10,760 Speaker 1: and you know, uh, you cut back and forth between 1997 02:13:10,800 --> 02:13:15,160 Speaker 1: the the analysis sessions. They're saying the exact opposite thing. 1998 02:13:16,720 --> 02:13:18,760 Speaker 1: They never want to have sex. They want to have 1999 02:13:18,840 --> 02:13:23,440 Speaker 1: sex all the time. And any word of wisdom you 2000 02:13:23,480 --> 02:13:31,240 Speaker 1: can leave us with from therapy. From therapy, um, oh, 2001 02:13:31,240 --> 02:13:35,280 Speaker 1: what would I say about it? Thank you to the 2002 02:13:35,280 --> 02:13:39,320 Speaker 1: therapists and to all you know, no, no, no, what 2003 02:13:39,440 --> 02:13:45,280 Speaker 1: did you learn about yourself? About life? Well, I'll tell 2004 02:13:45,320 --> 02:13:48,960 Speaker 1: you what. I wish I can say this to everybody 2005 02:13:48,960 --> 02:13:55,280 Speaker 1: in their twenties. Enjoy your twenties. Enjoy them. You only 2006 02:13:55,320 --> 02:13:58,520 Speaker 1: get to be in your twenties then, and you waste 2007 02:13:58,520 --> 02:14:02,560 Speaker 1: so much time thinking you're not good enough, you're not 2008 02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:05,600 Speaker 1: this enough, you're not bad enough. I wish I could 2009 02:14:06,080 --> 02:14:10,120 Speaker 1: give my twenty something self a pep talk and say, 2010 02:14:10,360 --> 02:14:14,080 Speaker 1: let it go. You this, You're in your freaking twenties, 2011 02:14:14,120 --> 02:14:17,400 Speaker 1: you idiot. That's what I wish I could say, don't 2012 02:14:17,600 --> 02:14:22,560 Speaker 1: fritter this time. It's that's oh my gosh, you know, 2013 02:14:22,600 --> 02:14:25,520 Speaker 1: and having kids in their twenties. I saw, you know, 2014 02:14:25,600 --> 02:14:30,200 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a weirdly complex and fraught time. But 2015 02:14:30,520 --> 02:14:32,680 Speaker 1: if I had a way to go back and tell 2016 02:14:32,760 --> 02:14:36,920 Speaker 1: my my twenties something self, any something, it'd be stop 2017 02:14:37,640 --> 02:14:41,840 Speaker 1: beating yourself up, Stop criticizing everything about yourself, Stop worrying 2018 02:14:41,880 --> 02:14:45,080 Speaker 1: about all these things. Do everything you can to cope 2019 02:14:45,080 --> 02:14:48,720 Speaker 1: with anxiety and healthy ways, in the best ways. But 2020 02:14:49,320 --> 02:14:53,200 Speaker 1: you know you're blowing it because you don't get to 2021 02:14:53,240 --> 02:14:57,680 Speaker 1: be twenty again. Okay, one final thing, because I've been 2022 02:14:57,720 --> 02:14:59,720 Speaker 1: watching you here on the zoom, even though the audience 2023 02:14:59,680 --> 02:15:03,240 Speaker 1: doesn't see the zoom. You don't wear a wedding ring 2024 02:15:04,040 --> 02:15:07,360 Speaker 1: protect at a moment. You just didn't put it on today, 2025 02:15:07,480 --> 02:15:10,360 Speaker 1: or you normally don't wear it. You know, Jay wears 2026 02:15:10,440 --> 02:15:15,040 Speaker 1: his every day. I because I played guitar it, I've 2027 02:15:15,040 --> 02:15:19,480 Speaker 1: always found it a little bit uncomfortable. I'm so married. 2028 02:15:19,880 --> 02:15:23,200 Speaker 1: You're right, but I do. I just I'm lax about 2029 02:15:23,200 --> 02:15:26,480 Speaker 1: wearing the ring. But he doesn't hold me. He doesn't 2030 02:15:26,480 --> 02:15:30,440 Speaker 1: hold it against me. He knows i'm He can count 2031 02:15:30,480 --> 02:15:37,200 Speaker 1: on me, ring or no ring on my left ring finger. Okay, 2032 02:15:37,200 --> 02:15:40,800 Speaker 1: Susannah Banana, I think I think we've come to the 2033 02:15:40,960 --> 02:15:43,080 Speaker 1: end of the feeling we've known. I want to thank 2034 02:15:43,120 --> 02:15:46,160 Speaker 1: you for taking this time. It's been very insightful. The 2035 02:15:46,240 --> 02:15:50,320 Speaker 1: digressions were the best part. I wish you luck with 2036 02:15:50,440 --> 02:15:52,920 Speaker 1: your new projects. You already got a great review of 2037 02:15:52,960 --> 02:15:57,840 Speaker 1: the book in the Times, so you're on your way. Bob, 2038 02:15:57,960 --> 02:16:01,840 Speaker 1: thanks so much. I've been so looking forward to this 2039 02:16:01,920 --> 02:16:05,520 Speaker 1: and I really appreciate you wanting to do this chat 2040 02:16:05,560 --> 02:16:09,880 Speaker 1: today with me. It was great. In any event, till 2041 02:16:09,960 --> 02:16:12,040 Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left Sex