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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading. Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Null. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Paull Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. You

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Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know, folks. Today's episode is about Well,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's definitely not a conspiracy theory. It's

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Speaker 1: an actual conspiracy, and it's one whose legality depends on

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Speaker 1: who you're asking. It's also, weirdly enough, unlike many conspiracies,

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Speaker 1: it's one right out in the open without spoiling it.

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Speaker 1: We should we should begin, as the Mad Hatter said

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the story. So to do that,

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Speaker 1: let's start with something called the International Criminal Court and

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Speaker 1: a little city called the Hague, or at least that's

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Speaker 1: how we pronounce it here in the States. Here are

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Speaker 1: the facts. So the International Criminal Court, which is often

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Speaker 1: shorthanded as the I s C, is in theory the

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Speaker 1: first court for the entire world. You know, Usually supreme

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Speaker 1: courts only govern individual countries. They can only preside over

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Speaker 1: their own respective nations. This court, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: is the first and only permanent international court fixture, uh,

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Speaker 1: meaning that it has in theory jurisdiction to prosecute individual

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Speaker 1: human people for international crimes. But there's a very specific

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Speaker 1: criteria for the types of crimes that it can prosecute, uh,

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Speaker 1: specifically the crimes of genocide, times against humanity, at war crimes,

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Speaker 1: and the crime of aggression. Yeah. And it should be

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Speaker 1: noted that this is different from another international court of

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Speaker 1: sorts that you may have heard of that has to

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Speaker 1: do with the U n That one's called the Court

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Speaker 1: of Justice. Um. And you know, if you when you

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Speaker 1: think about that one, it's kind of like handling dispute.

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Speaker 1: It's not a lesser court necessarily, but it's handling disputes

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Speaker 1: between countries. It's not to be confused with the Justice League.

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Speaker 1: That's uh, that's fictional super you know, Godrey, Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's an important difference. So for instance, if you are um,

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Speaker 1: what's for an easy one, if you are Mexico and

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Speaker 1: you are beefed up, if you're beefing it with Canada,

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Speaker 1: then you would reasonably go to the International Court of Justice.

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Speaker 1: But if you are a terrible individual, uh like Ricky

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Speaker 1: Spanish the pseudonym of Roger from from uh from uh oh,

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Speaker 1: what's American American family? American American dad? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah, the lovable alien who has a horrific alter

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Speaker 1: ego named Ricky Spanish. If you're a very very bad person,

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Speaker 1: then you end up again, as you said, an old

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Speaker 1: in theory, at the International Criminal Court. Now, the i

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Speaker 1: c C is pretty young. It was created in night

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Speaker 1: through the signing of something called the Rome Statute, which

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Speaker 1: laid out, here's what the i sec is going to be.

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Speaker 1: Because the UN and many other international bodies love a

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Speaker 1: lot of paperwork. But didn't it take a long time

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Speaker 1: for that to even get like ratified. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: actual statute was was created and like the late eighties

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Speaker 1: even wasn't it. Well, they got they got to they

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Speaker 1: got to the agreement. They finally decided on the ingredients

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Speaker 1: of their pizza, you know, in so if we think

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Speaker 1: of it that way, that's when they called in the delivery.

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Speaker 1: And then fast forward a few years. It's July one,

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Speaker 1: two thousand two. The delivery has come right. It is

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Speaker 1: the i c C, and all the countries that were

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Speaker 1: part of this Rome Statute automatically become members of the

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Speaker 1: i c C, which gives them certain powers. They can

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Speaker 1: team up. It gives them, i would say, rights and responsibilities.

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Speaker 1: They can team up to say, hey, prosecute this jerk,

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Speaker 1: or they can try to bring their own case. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They also are under the jurisdiction of the i c C,

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Speaker 1: which is a big, big deal. Before we really dive in, folks,

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Speaker 1: just to be clear, whether you've heard of this before,

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Speaker 1: you don't know it from a can of paint. The

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Speaker 1: majority of the world, of the majority of countries on

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Speaker 1: the planet, have agreed it's a good idea to hold

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Speaker 1: monsters accountable. And as of March of this year, there

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Speaker 1: were a hundred and twenty three members member states countries

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Speaker 1: of the i c C. UH. Forty two never signed,

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Speaker 1: never became parties, and a few countries, as we'll see,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of down in the beginning. They were down

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Speaker 1: to clown, but then they backed out. Just weren't jugg

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Speaker 1: low enough for this kind of justice. Justice low, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, yeah, yeah, And we're in the justice we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. Isn't justice for some crime that you know you,

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Speaker 1: let's say, even as bad as you murder someone, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't. You're not one person. No, no, no, it's

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Speaker 1: more like trying to wipe out an entire race, you know,

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Speaker 1: like like like total like lex luthor type crimes, like serious,

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Speaker 1: big pictures, supervillain crimes. Yeah. And it's generally an individual

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Speaker 1: who has the power to mobilize a bunch of other

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Speaker 1: individuals to do something right. And that's generally you. You

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Speaker 1: you try and hold the person accountable who actually made

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Speaker 1: those moves happen. And the burden of proof for a

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Speaker 1: lot of these things can be very high. You know,

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Speaker 1: just imagine, imagine the bureaucracy if you for anyone who

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Speaker 1: lives in the US, imagine, Uh, you live in California

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Speaker 1: and you get a speeding ticket in Louisiana and you

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Speaker 1: have to navigate those two different court systems. This is

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Speaker 1: a magnitude several magnitudes beyond that. Uh, And you can't

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Speaker 1: get there if you're listening to this because your dream

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Speaker 1: is to be tried by the I SEC. Listen, don't

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Speaker 1: do it, you don't want it. It's gonna take forever,

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Speaker 1: and it's gonna be a lot of work for you.

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Speaker 1: You can't go to the i c C just for

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Speaker 1: selling dime bags or racking up parking tickets. You have

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Speaker 1: to move horror in wait. Uh, this is, by its

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Speaker 1: own description, a court of last resort. To your point, Matt,

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Speaker 1: the idea of powerful people, real life supervillains being prosecuted. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this court exists because the world finally acknowledged that in

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Speaker 1: many cases, these people's home countries seem unable or unwilling

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Speaker 1: who prosecute these folks because more often than not, they

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Speaker 1: also have their finger on the on the scale of

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Speaker 1: their own countries justice system. They've corrupted it, They've rotted

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Speaker 1: it out like old wooden planks. And often the person

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Speaker 1: who was being prosecutor or the other another country or

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Speaker 1: a group of countries are seeking to prosecute. Would you,

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Speaker 1: as you said, Ben, have the power to maybe even

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Speaker 1: just prevent that core from doing anything by with brute

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Speaker 1: force or even one of the things that's put in

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Speaker 1: their aggression. They would just use their internal aggression to

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Speaker 1: prevent it from happening, just to arrest the judge. Follow

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Speaker 1: us for more tips on being a dictator. Well and

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Speaker 1: you know, not to get to overly political right upfront,

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Speaker 1: but it's like there are ways that this country, even

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Speaker 1: over the past handful of years, has inched towards those

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Speaker 1: types of criteria with certain Supreme Court appointments that have

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Speaker 1: made it all. But it's a sure thing that certain

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Speaker 1: agendas will be followed. So while like the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: is meant to uphold this neutral kind of position and

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Speaker 1: be able to prosecute people like that for crimes like

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, uh, there are certain things that have

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Speaker 1: made that a little more difficult, where our own legal

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Speaker 1: system is a little hamstrung um, which would make it

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Speaker 1: very helpful for a kind of neutral extra judicial body

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Speaker 1: to be able to sweep in and say, hey, you're

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Speaker 1: not going to do the right thing, so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do it for you. If you think about anyone who

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Speaker 1: holds the office of president or even really close to

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Speaker 1: that office here in the US, often they are given

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Speaker 1: a certain type of immunity, a very specialized immunity from

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Speaker 1: actions taken while they're in office, at least from being

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Speaker 1: prosecuted by the United States. Right, So if you just

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Speaker 1: take that as an example and you think about in

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Speaker 1: the context that we're discussing right now. Many countries have

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Speaker 1: like protections for their highest levels of office, right their leaders.

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Speaker 1: And that's why something like the International Criminal Court seems

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Speaker 1: to be a really good idea because even if that

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Speaker 1: internal country decides it's not gonna do anything or can't

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Speaker 1: do anything, somebody else can step in. And to my knowledge,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Ben, correct me if I'm wrong, Like, are

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Speaker 1: there limits to the power of a presidential pardon? Like

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Speaker 1: it always seems kind of willy nilly to me in

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Speaker 1: terms of what that covers, Like, are there like crimes

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Speaker 1: that are even too egregious to be worthy of a

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Speaker 1: presidential pardon. It's a good question, and it's what I'm

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Speaker 1: really glad you asked this, because we all know if

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Speaker 1: you pay attention to US administrations, we all know, and

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Speaker 1: there are certain cyclical things that happen, especially if a

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Speaker 1: president doesn't win re election. And one of the funniest

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Speaker 1: things is there's this fire sale on pardons and I

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Speaker 1: am using the word cell. Unfortunately, there's a fire sale

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Speaker 1: on pardons towards the end of an administration. The idea

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Speaker 1: of whether or not a president can pardon anything is

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Speaker 1: kind of up to um Okay, it's kind of up

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Speaker 1: to whether or not people push back. Like we had

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Speaker 1: another we had an episode a few years ago. Can

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Speaker 1: a president pardon themselves which led to a fascinating, like

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Speaker 1: regimant role of weirdness. As far as I've seen, there

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Speaker 1: haven't been and check us on this full of conspiracy realists,

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Speaker 1: there haven't been. There have been big stinks in the

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Speaker 1: court of public opinion when a president has pardoned someone

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Speaker 1: who clearly did something and it was clearly something bad,

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Speaker 1: But there haven't been presidential pardons that have been kicked

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Speaker 1: back by another court. The president has very broad constitutional

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Speaker 1: powers in that regard well, and usually it's a it's

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Speaker 1: gets a political maneuver. You know, when you do those

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Speaker 1: kinds of pardons, there's a certain amount of political capital

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Speaker 1: that you're expending, whether it's or your party, you know,

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Speaker 1: or or yourself or you know, potential future re election

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Speaker 1: or future ability to exercise influence. You know, if a

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Speaker 1: president exercises a pardon that the entire country and or

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Speaker 1: world sees as completely egregious and self serving, then that

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Speaker 1: you know, burned some pretty serious political capital. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and again we're talking in this case, we're talking specifically

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Speaker 1: about the US. If you're not from the US, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna love this because it's wild. If you're president, one

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Speaker 1: of the side benefits is that you can pardon any

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Speaker 1: family member that you want. You can be like, ah

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Speaker 1: my weird uncle, um uncle Beauregard or whatever. Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he smoked that meth. But he's a good guy at heart.

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Speaker 1: Just don't leave him unattended around copper and you know,

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Speaker 1: let him go his own way, just like that Fleetwood

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Speaker 1: Max song. But the one to amend what I was saying, amend.

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Speaker 1: One of the one big oh no for any presidential

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Speaker 1: pardon is if someone is impeached. If if they have

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Speaker 1: been impeached, you can't undo that because that's other. That's

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Speaker 1: a decision by um other other high level government members. Also,

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Speaker 1: you can't pardon for future crimes, right like, it's only

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Speaker 1: for something very specific that has already taken place. As

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Speaker 1: much as you can be folks good would like to

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Speaker 1: think they can do that. I know, like just tag

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Speaker 1: base forever. I love that. Who do I have to

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Speaker 1: write to, dear uncle Joe. I've got some stuff coming

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Speaker 1: up in a few years. This is preemptively Yeah, give

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Speaker 1: me a give me a get out a jail free

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Speaker 1: card for that. Can we just really quickly define some

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Speaker 1: terms those specific things that the I c C can pretend,

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Speaker 1: you know, theoretically prosecute because I don't know that everyone

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Speaker 1: they're they're not entirely clear on on the on the

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Speaker 1: face of them. Yeah, perfect, So genocide. We also have

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Speaker 1: an episode on that genocide becomes very surprisingly enough, I

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Speaker 1: think the common person, we can all all thinking minds

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Speaker 1: can agree on what genocide is. But legally there are

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of interested parties who go back

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Speaker 1: on and forth on what they think is proper to

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Speaker 1: be called genocide. But as I think we pretty neatly

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Speaker 1: for one thing, a racial characteristic, um and ethnic identity.

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Speaker 1: Most often crimes of aggression. That might be a little

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Speaker 1: bit confusing for people because you can say many crimes

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Speaker 1: are crimes of aggression, but a crime of yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you'll hear it also called a crime against peace. What

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Speaker 1: it basically means is using state military force to do

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Speaker 1: something that is not a response. That's why that's why

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Speaker 1: even in the case of Russia and Ukraine right now well,

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Speaker 1: and of course they can be found later to be

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Speaker 1: false pretenses. You know, you can wage a war a

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Speaker 1: claim that you're protecting yourself and then it is later

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Speaker 1: determined that it was either some sort of false flag

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Speaker 1: a little bit about what actually transpired in the attempt

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Speaker 1: to illegally wage war. And so another one that might

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Speaker 1: be a little vague for a lot of us is

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Speaker 1: crimes against humanity. That's very different from purposely dropping an

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Speaker 1: SPD in a crowded elevator knowing people can't move. A

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Speaker 1: crime against humanity is more broad than a crime of

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Speaker 1: aggression or a crime of crime of genocide. It's a

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Speaker 1: large scale persecution or atrocity against the body of people

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Speaker 1: not necessarily linked by commonality a self identifying or identify commonality.

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Speaker 1: And then war crimes. War crimes are an episode of

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Speaker 1: their own, of which this is a part Before we

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Speaker 1: move on, though, there's one thing I don't want to

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Speaker 1: get lost in this conversation. A presidential pardon can be preemptive.

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Speaker 1: You can do so just like Richard Nixon was pre

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Speaker 1: emptively pardoned. It's just kind of unusual. Gerald Ford said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's move on from this show. Uh, and gave gave

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Speaker 1: Tricky Dick a get out of jail free card. Literally,

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Speaker 1: would you say that one thing that these criteria have

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Speaker 1: in common is that they all sort of rally around

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Speaker 1: the idea of morals, the idea of respect for human

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Speaker 1: life in some way. That like that that's the broader understanding,

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Speaker 1: is that we have some centralized agreement upon what the

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Speaker 1: value of human life is. Yeah, there's the idea that

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Speaker 1: the uh, they're all large scale effects, right, there's Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: as as horrendous as torture mutilation is, it's it is

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Speaker 1: a measure of large scale effects. So if you torture

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Speaker 1: one person, you're not going to the I C c UH.

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Speaker 1: You should not torture anybody. Check out our I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to spend the whole episode just referencing earlier episodes,

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Speaker 1: but check out our our examination of whether torture works.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't spoiler us or it doesn't get people to

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Speaker 1: tell you the truth. Well, and when you make it

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Speaker 1: a policy to call torture is something different like it

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Speaker 1: enhanced interrogation technique and then use that on hundreds and

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Speaker 1: hundreds of people. You probably don't want to have the

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Speaker 1: International Court coming down on you, so you do everything

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Speaker 1: you can to make sure you're you're good. Well, we're

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Speaker 1: getting to with those those those member nations and the

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Speaker 1: ones that UH didn't want to play at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day. UH. We talked about this in a

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Speaker 1: recent Strange News or perhaps listener mail where somebody wrote

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Speaker 1: in um whose name is escaping me? Please forgive me

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Speaker 1: just about UH taking a trip to the Hague or

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Speaker 1: teaching their students about the Hague and the fact that

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Speaker 1: the US is one of those abstaining members UH, And

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Speaker 1: that calls into question why why would you not want

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Speaker 1: to be a part of this? Ben you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: most of the countries of the world think this is

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Speaker 1: a good idea, So it begs the question, if you

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Speaker 1: don't think it's a good idea, what are you trying

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Speaker 1: to uh prevent? What are you trying to not hide?

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Speaker 1: But why don't you want to have the eye of

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Speaker 1: this body on you? It's good foreshadowing, especially considering that

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Speaker 1: the i c C is also purposely hamstrung. It can

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Speaker 1: only investigate and prosecute crimes that are quote and this

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Speaker 1: is directly from them, folks committed within Member states, crimes

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Speaker 1: committed by nationals of member states, or crimes in situations

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Speaker 1: refer to the court by the United Nations Security Council.

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Speaker 1: The United Nations, the u n s C the big

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Speaker 1: winners of World War two, basically, Uh. They are the

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Speaker 1: ones who call the shots in a very real way

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Speaker 1: in the UN. Uh. You know it should be surprising.

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Speaker 1: The I SEC has a lot of controversy, accusations of racism, bias,

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Speaker 1: accusations of what's called eurocentrism, which is meaning only paying

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Speaker 1: attention to the needs of UM Western European nations, Western

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Speaker 1: Central European nations basically UH. And then, as you might imagine,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of countries, especially if a dictator

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Speaker 1: or powerful supervillain has their thumbs on the scale, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of countries that will say the I

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Speaker 1: s C is not fair when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: cases it selects, or it goes past its jurisdiction, or hey,

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Speaker 1: it's not effective at all in the first place. And

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Speaker 1: if you look how overloaded your court system is in

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Speaker 1: your neck of the global woods, you might be surprised

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Speaker 1: to find just how few cases the i c C

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Speaker 1: is actually followed up on in in its two decades

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Speaker 1: in action. I'm just saying it makes sense. These accusations

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Speaker 1: make sense, even if you don't agree with them absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And let's get into that, right after a quick word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor. We've returned. Before we get into this,

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Speaker 1: we have a quick word from our pals at the

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Speaker 1: u N s C. Kidding no, the perfect I g

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Speaker 1: U commercial. Uh, let's do that. Let's do that when

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Speaker 1: we do our war crimes episode. But but there's some

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Speaker 1: stuff people need to know about the U N s C. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well we've mentioned this before in a couple of episodes,

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Speaker 1: but Ben, I want you to read that quote one

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Speaker 1: more time about what the i c C can what

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Speaker 1: they can do, because I want to break that down

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Speaker 1: just a little bit before we move into the next section.

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Speaker 1: The i c C can only investigate and prosecute crimes

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Speaker 1: committed within Members States, crimes committed by nationals of Members States,

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Speaker 1: or crimes and situations referred to the Court by the

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Speaker 1: Annointed Nations Security Council. It's a kangaroo court just just

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Speaker 1: because well, this is this is what it's doing to

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Speaker 1: my brain. At least I'll let you guys know. So

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Speaker 1: you've got all the member states here, all the states,

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Speaker 1: the states that have agreed, yes, we want to be

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Speaker 1: a part of this thing. We want to have these powers.

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Speaker 1: You can prosecute things that happened within us, and we

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Speaker 1: will also prosecute things that happened within the others. But

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Speaker 1: then you've also got yeah, willing to play. But in

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Speaker 1: that other bucket, you've got that United Nations Security Council,

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Speaker 1: which several of those big states, the big players, as

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Speaker 1: you said, the winners of World War Two art members,

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Speaker 1: but there are I mean, there's an interesting bag there.

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Speaker 1: But let's just name them China, France, Russia, the UK,

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Speaker 1: and the US so and these this crew can just say, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's something happening over there and you should look into it,

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Speaker 1: like one of those have in common. Those are the

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Speaker 1: biggest imperialist forces like on planet Earth in terms of

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Speaker 1: just like taking over and like you know, subjugating countries

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Speaker 1: that are less powerful than them and in exerting their

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Speaker 1: influence throughout history. Those are the countries. You know, it

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Speaker 1: makes sense they wouldn't want to play, and they can't

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Speaker 1: agree on anything. You know, I would be honestly not

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Speaker 1: to sound too cynical, but if the UN sc agrees

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Speaker 1: on something, in my mind, that means it's time to

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Speaker 1: dig in and figure out what the catches are on that,

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Speaker 1: because those gangs do not always play nice together. And

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Speaker 1: this this leads us to some of the problems with

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Speaker 1: the with the court here. First, it can only prosecute

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Speaker 1: stuff that happened after its formation. That makes it very

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Speaker 1: different from another from something like UH Nuremberg, like the

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Speaker 1: Nuremberg Trials were prosecuting on things that happened before the creation,

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Speaker 1: like before those trials began. This is looking at UH.

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Speaker 1: This can only look at two thousand two going forward,

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Speaker 1: which you know probably makes people like Henry Kissinger super elated.

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Speaker 1: You know, he might have even smiled. I also heard

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Speaker 1: that they can't prosecute anyone under the age of eighteen,

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Speaker 1: which is I guess we don't have like, you know,

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Speaker 1: evil princes anymore that like you know, like Geoffrey Barathian

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Speaker 1: types that like you know, you commit war crimes. But

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Speaker 1: that could change. It's just an odd I just thought

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Speaker 1: I found that to be an odd little caveat They

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Speaker 1: can't persect prosecute anyone under them. But I guess you

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Speaker 1: can't be in the army. You can't be in a

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Speaker 1: military if you're into the age of eighteen either, So

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Speaker 1: maybe you wouldn't necessarily be capable or in a position

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Speaker 1: of committing these types of acts. But I did, given

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Speaker 1: the span of history, find that to be a little funny. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's probably a response to the epidemic of

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Speaker 1: child soldiers that have plagued human civilization. The people that

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Speaker 1: did that, did it to them, prosecute the people that

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Speaker 1: put them in that position, not necessarily them who have

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Speaker 1: been brainwashed and you know, mistreated and turned into these

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Speaker 1: you know, Manchurian candidates. Yeah, and you know what, that's

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Speaker 1: a that's an episode in the future too. I think

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Speaker 1: if we look into child soldier epidemics this, Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: under a team that's part of it too. That's really

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Speaker 1: good point. Secondly, obviously, not every country is going to

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Speaker 1: agree with this idea. In general, several countries on the

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Speaker 1: African continent have accused the i c C of being

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Speaker 1: just a jumped up tool of Western imperialism. And what

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Speaker 1: they mean is they're saying, hey, you at the i

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Speaker 1: c C. You are punishing leaders of smaller, weaker, non

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Speaker 1: colonial states, while you're ignoring much more serious crimes by

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Speaker 1: people who look a little more like you maybe or

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Speaker 1: come from more powerful states who are able to bully

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Speaker 1: or bribe. And that's a huge part of this. I've

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Speaker 1: got to say, and not addinged any of our European friends,

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Speaker 1: because I want to get back in the country at

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Speaker 1: some point. Until twenty I've got to say there's some

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Speaker 1: validity until six. All nine cases or uh situations as

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Speaker 1: they call them, Verry Seinfeld, Verry Larry David, all nine

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Speaker 1: situations they investigated, we're all in African countries. Plus the

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Speaker 1: i SEC is headquartered in the Hague. The Hague sounds

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Speaker 1: like a building, but it's it's the third largest city

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Speaker 1: in the Netherlands. And if you already see this is

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Speaker 1: Western imperialism, then of course you're gonna say, look, this

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Speaker 1: is in this is located in what I see as

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Speaker 1: a representation of that imperialism. You will obviously from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: it's reasonable to say this is to maintain the ghosts

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Speaker 1: of old colonial power and force this imperialism. So there's beef.

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Speaker 1: It's beefed up. These these controversies their origins. It's clear

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Speaker 1: it's no surprise that many very powerful countries refused to

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Speaker 1: play ball at all. They didn't really show up to

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Speaker 1: the playground. China, Japan, Russia, uh India, and Israel I

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Speaker 1: would I would put them in some separate buckets, but

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Speaker 1: they never ratified the treaties, which means, according to the

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Speaker 1: court's own decisions, they cannot legally be prosecuted. However, folks,

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Speaker 1: there is one country that went to a little farther

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Speaker 1: you know, the country who said, let's invent extra large

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Speaker 1: because large isn't large enough. The country that said, cocaine's

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Speaker 1: just not doing it. We need something with a little

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Speaker 1: more pep. The creators of crack, the creators of free refills.

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Speaker 1: The United States responded to this with an outright declared conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: This is a true story. Try to come at us,

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Speaker 1: they said, to the International Criminal Court, and we will

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Speaker 1: invade your city. Here's where it gets great. I'm just

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Speaker 1: I know we don't curse a lot on this show,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like we need that to land for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, I mean that's exactly what this episode is about,

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Speaker 1: the concept like we we I It blew my mind

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Speaker 1: when we first talked about it in that I think

426
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: it was a strange news or listener. I can't remember,

427
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: but we first talked about I I couldn't believe that

428
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: the US decided that if anyone tries to prosecute a

429
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: somebody in the U S an important enough member of

430
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: the US. Uh, the the I sec attempts to do that,

431
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: we would We've put it in writing that we would

432
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: invade them. Yeah, the mess around and find out would

433
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: have been a better name for this law. Technically it's

434
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: called the American Service Members Protection Act early August two

435
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: thousand two. Well, we we also know that, I mean

436
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: the the was it the Rome Treaty or the Rome

437
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: Doctrine and yeah, statute exactly. Well, you know, the US

438
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: was had a big hand in in crafting that in

439
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: the first place, but then ultimately decided, n we don't

440
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: want to participate because they were worried about political persecution

441
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: or or that that that there would be politicized, um,

442
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: you know, cases against our country or you know, I

443
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: mean that's obviously what they're really concerned about. That they

444
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: put it in broader terms obviously, but you know, considering

445
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: how many cups and and other you know, the business

446
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: of other countries the US gets involved in in terms

447
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: of like supplying weapons to UH groups and and and

448
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: countries that are later determined to be war criminals. Of course,

449
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: we wouldn't want to be be part of that, you know.

450
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: It just it just makes so much sense. And you know, sure,

451
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: come at the countries, but then also, no, don't, because

452
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: we need to be we need to have a hand

453
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: in what is determined to be a genocide, you know,

454
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: because we are participatory in so many of these things,

455
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: and when we are, hands are not clean. Therefore we

456
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: have to be able to have plausible deniability. And you

457
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: can't come at us directly, um, because we're just playing

458
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: the you know, so many sides against each other. UH.

459
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: And at the time it's, oh, we did it for

460
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: humanitarian reasons, but we know that's not true. I don't.

461
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: I don't think we're some sort of magnanimous Oh, we're

462
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: just trying to look out for the best interests of

463
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: human life. That's just not true, unequivocally. Well, you know,

464
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: it reminds me of that old meme. Ah, yes, here

465
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: they are consequences of my actions. If you have enough

466
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: power to say no to the consequences of your actions,

467
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: then why wouldn't you? In basic terms, this Service Members

468
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: Protection Act, street name Invade the Hague Act, says that

469
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: it's meant to protect United States military personnel other elected

470
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: and appointed officials of the US government against criminal prosecution

471
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: by an international criminal court to which the United States

472
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: is not party a k a. Any international criminal court

473
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: in the US. The president. This is interesting because in

474
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: the US the president needs congressional approval for any conflict

475
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: lasting more than a hundred and eight days, except in

476
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: this case, if they say go, then then off you go.

477
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it's fast. It's very fast, especially in geopolitics,

478
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: so it doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation.

479
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: The US is not part of the i c C.

480
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: The U S President is allowed to do anything up

481
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: to and including direct military action. And again there's another quote.

482
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: There's a real law to quote bring about the release

483
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: of any US or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned

484
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: by on behalf of, or at the request of the

485
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: i c C. So it doesn't matter really where they're

486
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: being kept. It's just good pr to call it invade

487
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: the Hague. Right. It's a catchy phrase, but you know,

488
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: if they is a Carmen San Diego situation and the

489
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: US uh doesn't, the US will find that person if

490
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: they think the I c C Is going against US interest.

491
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: It's wild pretty easy to find Carmen San Diego with

492
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: that big old hat. I just have to say, nobody

493
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: wears a hat that broad except Carmen. It's mind blowing

494
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: to me to imagine that the US has a position of, Yes,

495
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: this thing is great, This I CEC thing is great.

496
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: We don't need to play. This thing is can function

497
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: as long as it needs to, as long as it

498
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: doesn't come after us, because the day it comes after us,

499
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: it's gonna be gone. And yeah, and from some perspectives, yeah,

500
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: you can see how from some perspectives, this is a

501
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: dick move. It's back to the pizza analogy. The US

502
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: sat around while everyone was ordering the pizza, dictated a

503
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: ton of the ingredients, and then said, I'm gonna eat,

504
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna pay. You know, it's like the

505
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: fable of the Little red hen, you know, like the

506
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: little red hens cultivating all of the ingredients for the bread,

507
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: and the rabbit comes and say, she's like help me.

508
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: You know how this this road to get the whatever

509
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: the grain, and rabbits like no, and then the whatever

510
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: chicken or not whatever some other animal. And then at

511
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: the end when the bread is made, all the animals

512
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: come around like we want some, and the little red

513
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: hands like, nah, you can't. But we are the all

514
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: the other animals. Is what we are, and a little

515
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: hand is the I sec essentially or the rest of

516
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: the world. I guess right, yeah, it's we just take

517
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: the bread. We just take the bread, we eat it,

518
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: and then we killed a little red head brutal, and

519
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: we liberate the bread and we hold the hit accountable.

520
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: Is what we tell the school children. How dare they

521
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: grow that bread? But yeah, it's weird, So you can

522
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: al really see this sticky. This very divisive for anybody

523
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: who was around at the time in two thousand two,

524
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: this was, um, this was a real sandstorm because I'm

525
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: trying to curse less on the show after I got

526
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: out a couple couple of bombs. The law came into

527
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: being due to Senator Jesse Helms and US Representative Tom Delay,

528
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: a guy was famous for really dumb decisions. So this

529
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: was signed into law by then President George Bush W.

530
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: George W. Bush don't worry folks outside the U S.

531
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: It's confusing for us to it becomes two. It's the sun, Yes,

532
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: the sequel Son up Bush. But it does a lot

533
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: more than just say we will come for you. It

534
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: prohibits the extradition of anyone, not just military, civilian or military,

535
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: from the U S to the i c C. It

536
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: bans every single possible government organization, agency, law enforcement like

537
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: any branch, federal, state, even local level from assisting the

538
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: i c C. Full stop. Your local librarian. By the way,

539
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: if the I s C for some reason contacts your

540
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: libry area and says, hey, what's that Matt Frederick guy reading,

541
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: they'll say, I legally cannot tell you. This is quintessential.

542
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: This is quintessential. Might makes right, isn't it. I mean,

543
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,479
Speaker 1: it really truly is. You can kind of dictate all

544
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: these terms if if the only way anyone's gonna call

545
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: you on it is if they, you know, threaten you militarily,

546
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: and there are very few nations that can do that

547
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: to the United States. It goes even further. I SEC

548
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: officials are not allowed to conduct investigations on US soil. Yes,

549
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: that includes military bases abroad, which is important. But wait,

550
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: Billy Mays, who was wont to say, there's more. Countries

551
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: that are part of the I s C also cannot

552
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: receive military aid from the US without explicit exceptions. Uh.

553
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: It's very it's very tupac, you know what I mean.

554
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: It's very like, it's very screw you and if you

555
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: ride with them, screw YouTube. So it gets a little

556
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: sticky when we talked about exceptions. NATO members are exempted.

557
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: In general. Allies that the US is playing ball with

558
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: really nicely are exempted. Taiwan, other countries that have agreed

559
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: to never ever ever hand over any U S national

560
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: to the I c C can get a waiver. Other

561
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: than that, it's really iron clad. And this is um

562
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: Obviously there's a lot of political posturing, but it is enforced.

563
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: In two thousand two, same year, Uh, George W. Bush

564
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: makes this a law. Uh. The US uses this invade

565
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: the Hague Act as part of their logic to veto

566
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: continuing peacekeeping operations in Bosnia. They said, will assist this.

567
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: We're paraphrasing, but this is what they signaled, will assist.

568
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 1: We deigned to do so, but we are not within

569
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: the scope of your so called court the same laws

570
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: restrict American forces in UN peacekeeping forces until those troops

571
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: get immunity from I c C. Prosecution. The US is

572
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 1: still able to help bring accused war criminals to justice

573
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: in this court as long as they're not American nationals.

574
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: And at some point, when you hear all these caveats

575
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: how crazy this is, you have to ask why why

576
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: does the US have such a stringent set of demands. Honestly,

577
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys picked up on this.

578
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: Here's the vibe I got when I was doing research

579
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: about this, I mean many years ago too. It's still

580
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: to me reads like a jilted high schooler telling people, Hey, guys,

581
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: if you want to be friends, you can't ever ever

582
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: talk to my acts because we broke up. Like I

583
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: don't text her. I see one of you are still

584
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: friends on Facebook, and that's just not a good look

585
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: for us. I really want to know the backstory to

586
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: that character. Ye giant Mart I think is very leaning

587
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, nobody called anymore, No, no, no, you

588
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: gotta start a new one. But we're all the we're

589
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: halfway through the campaign. We've been doing it. Not sorry, sorry,

590
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: you can't. We can't do well. It turns out you

591
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: us sadly, there's some compelling reasons behind this. Uh first,

592
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a couple of reasons, but let's

593
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: just knock let's knock through them first. There's the potential

594
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: for war crimes prosecution, as as you point out earlier,

595
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: noal from the bottom to the top factions of the U. S.

596
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: Government and military saw this jurisdiction as a potential threat.

597
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 1: That's why in seventeen Everyone's favorite where Walrus John Bolton

598
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: wrote an op ed in the Wall Street Journal saying

599
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: that the i c C was purposely designed to target

600
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: the United States. I don't know if that part's true,

601
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: but that's what he thought. I would say. You can

602
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: see I could see that as someone who doesn't know

603
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: how it was formed, what's going on and why it

604
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: was formed. If you imagine that it's a bunch of

605
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: other states teaming up together to have some kind of

606
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: power against the reigning world superpower, right, Like, we've got

607
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: some kind of lever we could put stentially pull to

608
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: protect ourselves against this giant country with the huge army

609
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: and all the nukes if we had to. Uh, but

610
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be working out that way, especially

611
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: when you consider when this law happened right right after

612
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: the September eleven attacks, right before we had full scale

613
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: invasion of Iraq. Again, I mean, it's just I don't know,

614
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: it feels like a bunch of people trying to form

615
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: some kind of Avengers group which was under false pretenses.

616
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: By the way, Wasn't that Wasn't that an act of aggression?

617
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that have been a crime of aggression saying that

618
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: we're going after weapons of mass destruction when it was

619
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: proven that that was never never the case, or was

620
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: it decided that that was in good faith that we

621
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: believed that to be true, So therefore it wasn't an

622
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: act of aggression. We'll never know because it's never gonna

623
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: make it to the i c C. That's that's unfortunately

624
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: the truth. But yeah, the yellow cake uranium thing turned

625
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: out to be bum so did the stuff about the tubes.

626
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of a lot of American

627
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: service members died as as a result of um of

628
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: of those decisions, whether you think they were in good

629
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: faith or whether you think they were purposely con artists

630
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: at work. So Bolton said, you know, Bolton is reacting

631
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: at this point, there's like a year before he has

632
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: a crazy montage moment as National Security advisor, His his

633
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 1: his his calendar year of love twenty eighteen to twenty nineteen,

634
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: and he noted that the i SEC prosecutor at the time,

635
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: thought to Benzelda was investigating alleged war crimes and crimes

636
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 1: against humanity in Afghanistan dating back to two thousand and three.

637
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: He said, this raises the alarming possibility that the court

638
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: will seek to assert jurisdiction over American citizens, and he,

639
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: along with the people who agreed with him, said this

640
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: i SEC was an assault not just on the S

641
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: but the concept of national sovereignty. Um. The question that

642
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: he was kind of posing simply put whether or not

643
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: you agree with the guy, And I didn't mean a

644
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: mustache shame him. He has a very you know, he's

645
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: worked hard on his mustache. His question, though, is something

646
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: I would freeze it something like this, What does one

647
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: country's court system matter if another global court can simply

648
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: ignore it and enforce you know, their concept of law.

649
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: Even that that's part of why the i c C,

650
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: by the way, is so limited in what it can

651
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: look at and how it's I mean, it's a defensible argument,

652
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: but you can also say it's a convenient argument a

653
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: little bit for the US. Like you guys said a

654
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: lot of caught a lot of heat across the world

655
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: for interventions in Iraq who had nothing to do with

656
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: September eleven and Afghanistan. Um fun note the U s

657
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: has not invaded Saudi Arabia and may have just recently

658
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: as we record, slid them some extremely sensitive intel related

659
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: to other world leaders and nuclear weaponry. And then we

660
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: got the conversation about real politics. Just to define real

661
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: politic real quickly. It's the idea that you've got to

662
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 1: be practical, you gotta do what works in the moment,

663
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: and you can't be bound by things like ideology or

664
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: moral restraints, again made famous by Henry Kissinger. But but

665
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: but again like a lot of these, uh, these tenants

666
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: of the International Criminal Court are based in ideology and morality.

667
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: And it makes your heads been a little bit, don't it.

668
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: I don't Yeah, I don't know. I think you can

669
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 1: get most people. I think you can get most people

670
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: to say it is um not ethical. Two for one

671
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: person to wake up and decide their judge jury and

672
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: executioner of hundreds of thousand or millions of people. I

673
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: think we all agree that's a no no, right, Even

674
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: even people who want drastic population reduction would say, well,

675
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: either make it random or have some kind of system.

676
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: And most of them will also say a system that

677
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 1: spares me. But that that's kind of what I was

678
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: getting at earlier, like like what what one person's genocide

679
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: is another person's just conflict, you know, Like it takes

680
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: a lot. The burden of proof to determine something was

681
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: a genocide requires the proof of intent and and and

682
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: to be able to actually determine that ideologically this was

683
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: meant to be ethnic cleansing as opposed to just know

684
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: we were protecting you know, our our, our people or

685
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. These this is an invading force.

686
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: So the burden of proof is very difficult, right, It's

687
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: a very high bar because I mean there are some

688
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: you know acts or events, um tragic you know, killings

689
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 1: and conflicts that any you know, rational person would probably

690
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: look at and say that was a genocide, but they

691
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: aren't officially categorized as genocides. Cool it, guys, Turkey has

692
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: entered the chat. So moving on, right, think the same India, right, Indonesia,

693
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: Like I mean, there's a film called The Act of Killing, um,

694
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: which is about all of these military, you know, individuals

695
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: that that that participated by their own admission in in

696
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: in genocide and they are essentially like we're treated like

697
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: rock stars. And it's a really disturbing film. It's these

698
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: these people that the filmmakers found and have them reenact

699
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: these executions they carried out like like almost like a play.

700
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: And um, it's it's apparently I actually haven't seen it.

701
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: It's one that it's on my list, but I'm see exactly.

702
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: But my point is, I don't believe that that event

703
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: in Indonesia was officially classified by the i c C

704
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: as a genocide. When you look at the Wikipedia about it,

705
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: it it kind of evacillates between mass killing and genocide,

706
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: you know, because it's it's difficult to uh put to

707
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: put that the G word on something. It takes a

708
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: lot for for the international community to agree. Yeah. Again,

709
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: check out our episode on on genocide. And there there

710
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: are powerful forces who wish to control the definition of

711
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: what is or is not a genocide. I'm not singling

712
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: out any one force because there are multiple and they

713
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: don't always agree with each other. Uh. The I will

714
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: say the reference to Turkey is a reference to the

715
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: country's position that there was no Armenian genocide. We trust you,

716
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: as researchers, fellow conspiracy realist, look up the facts and

717
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: decide for yourself. Uh. If I think yeah. And so

718
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 1: if you look at if you look at the past,

719
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: when the i c C was started out with the

720
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 1: Rome Statute was starting out more properly, you will see

721
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: the Under the Clinton administration, the US was actively trying

722
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: to negotiate on the treaty and they had a pitch.

723
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: They had They had like a they had like a

724
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: pick up artist level pitch. It was brazen. They said, Okay,

725
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 1: we want the U N. Security Council to screen any

726
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: cases that go before the court. We want them to

727
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: not just refer cases to the court if they wish.

728
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: We want them to be the ones who decide what

729
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: gets to go into this courtroom. And this meant in practice,

730
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam could just veto anything it didn't like, because

731
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: on the U N. Security Council, one veto is all

732
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: it takes. You don't need three people, three forces voting,

733
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: You just need one to say no. Uh, and that

734
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 1: deal got rejected because you know, it's an unequal standard

735
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: of justice. That's what other countries saw it as. And

736
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: they saw it that way because they were right. It

737
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: flew in the face of the whole stick of the

738
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: i c C, one uniform standard of justice for all people.

739
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: The Bush administration that became pretty aggressive after that. They

740
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: negotiated all these um they exploited a loophole, a delicious loophole.

741
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: They made a bunch of bilateral agreements with all these

742
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: other countries. Bilateral, just one on one, like Singapore says,

743
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: no matter what happens Australia, you and I have an understanding, right,

744
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: That's what they did. The U S did this with

745
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: tons of countries. There's something called bilateral immunity agreements or

746
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: article agreements. Again, this is a sweet ass loophole. Honestly,

747
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 1: in the Rome Statute, it's about direct agreements between countries,

748
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: whether or not their signatories to the i c C.

749
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: The Barack Obama administration later makes them less aggross signals.

750
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: But folks, this law is not going to change. Washington

751
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: will not allow US nationals to see a single day

752
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: in the i c C. And they have the juice

753
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: either bribe or bully other countries to agree with this stance.

754
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: Don't what I was thinking about this. Don't be fooled

755
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: by a change of administrations. It's relatively rare for so

756
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: many successive administrations of differing slants and differing parties to

757
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: be a dent down with the same thing. There's a

758
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: reason why. You have to remember political parties often wear

759
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: different colors on their jersey, but they're all playing the

760
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: same sport. And this is I think this is a

761
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: great example of this, whether or not you agree with

762
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: what they're saying. Um this we see the Obama administration

763
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: bring up the Article agreements with the U N and MOLI.

764
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: It keeps going. I mean, we can list, we can

765
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: list the back and force like going up to this year.

766
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: What happened in People want to hear about what happened

767
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: during the Trump administration with this stuff. Yeah, I mean,

768
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: you know, the Trump administration clearly was not okay with

769
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: this whole car except of another body coming in and

770
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: and prosecuting um our government or or individuals who are

771
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: part of it. The Trump administration declared a national emergency

772
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: with an Executive Order UH stating that their concern had

773
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: to do with something you need to be done about

774
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 1: the quote threat to the national security and foreign policy

775
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: of the United States posed by the i c C.

776
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: So they essentially, you know, cast the i c C

777
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: as an enemy of of the United States. Uh. The

778
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: very next year, um, the current administration, the Biden administration

779
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: did ultimately revoke this executive order, though they still kind

780
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 1: of caveated the whole thing, saying that the US will

781
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,919
Speaker 1: vigorously protect current and former United States personnel from any

782
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,479
Speaker 1: attempts to exercise such jurisdiction. So, you know, walking back

783
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: the extreme rhetoric of the Trump administration, but essentially returning

784
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: to the status quo of you know, come at US,

785
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: f around and find out in the end, it's the same.

786
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean, they they're all saying the same thing. It's

787
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 1: just neutering the rhetoric a little better, softening it rather,

788
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: that's all it is. It's just another PR move. It's

789
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, this is our PR line for this administration.

790
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna be a little kinder and gentler and present.

791
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: There were maybe a little more willing to play ball,

792
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: but not really at all. Let's see, it's America's perpetual

793
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: cycle of soft, than hard for a while, then soft again.

794
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: It's all the same. What are they called hummingbirds and

795
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: always sunny fractory period that no no, no, no no no.

796
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: For the one person that that landed with that fellow

797
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: Dennist Reynolds fan, that's for you. Uh So, how about this,

798
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: Since we've met our requisite always study reference, maybe we

799
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 1: take an ad break here and thus return. Yeah, okay,

800
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: well we'll return to make things even worse. Remember this stuff.

801
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 1: You're gonna be so fun at parties. We're back refilled

802
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: their coffee. Uh. The third point here we need to

803
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: understand is that if we put aside the argument about serenity,

804
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: which we totally get, we put aside the idea of

805
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: practicality and uh a moral politics, real politics, which we

806
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 1: totally get. We have to ask, when these high level

807
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: politicians are having a problem with the I c C.

808
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: Who is the US really afraid is going to be targeted?

809
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: Is it really rank and file soldiers you guys? I

810
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: mean for supporters of this act. This doesn't mean in

811
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: any way that a given service member or civilian past

812
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: or present is above the law. Their argument is that, hey,

813
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: we're We're a country already. We have our own courts,

814
00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: we have our own legal systems, we have ways to

815
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: bring justice to people who are breaking laws. But as

816
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: you might imagine, not a stance uh Ton of the

817
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: rest of the world agrees with. And then other people say, look,

818
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: this is really this is just a rejection. We're just

819
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: concerned that other nations may want to try to unfairly

820
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: target senior members of the US military political class, uh

821
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: just for any number of decisions or actions, and it

822
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: may just be because their enemies of the US, to

823
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: say the quiet part allowed the big concern was that

824
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: US decision makers, not just the soldiers, the people who

825
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: sent the soldiers, would be on the hook for actions

826
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: in Iraq and Afghanistan. But is this, I mean, is

827
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: this even really a genuine threat? Is this just a

828
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: dollop of political theater? There's something really There are loopholes

829
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: we can talk about later, but that's the whole politicization threat.

830
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: That that that caused the US not to want to

831
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: go all in on the Rome Statute from the start.

832
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: You know, the idea that these types of prosecutions could

833
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: be politicized, even though you know, and Ben I'd love

834
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on this. We had a big

835
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 1: hand in crafting the statute in the first place. Why

836
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: did we do that if we weren't gonna gonna follow through?

837
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: It's all good till it isn't you know what I mean?

838
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: It's it's consequences are great for other countries. Is is

839
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: is the implication uh in a lot of you in conversations.

840
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: I mean, also, it may be tremendously unnecessary. The whole

841
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: thing is very strange to be the question you posed there, like,

842
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: is it actually the rank and file like soldiers and

843
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: and individuals that were worried would be targeted? Um, of

844
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: course it's this. It's this self regulation that we've seen

845
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: in in in a lot of the history of capitalism,

846
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: right in the industry that wants to sell regulate, so

847
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: it creates a body that the industry's all control. And

848
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: then that body is the thing that's supposed to make

849
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: decisions about what's right and what's wrong within the industry,

850
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: rather than some third party actually looking at it and

851
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,439
Speaker 1: being somewhat of a watchdog. Uh. I feel like we're

852
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: doing kind of the same thing here, just with a

853
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: with a superpower country. Yeah, and That's the reason we're

854
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: able to do that is because we have we were

855
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: able to flex our military might quietly. You know, we're

856
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: not literally threatening anybody, but you know that's understood that

857
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: that's on the table, you know, and it allows us

858
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: to kind of what is it? What is it? Walks

859
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 1: softly and carry a big stick. Well, well we'll we'll

860
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: definitely get some private contractors to build one. Uh and

861
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 1: you know, whoever makes the lowest bid on the biggest stick,

862
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: we'll be fine because we the people buying it aren't

863
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: personally gonna have to deal with the consequences health is

864
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: that big stick at least? Right? Uh? This shout out

865
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: the vault. If people like that kind of exploration, if

866
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: they preferred in fiction. Uh So this to read the

867
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: law and a bare bones matter. Though getting back to

868
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: whether or not this is even a necessary conversation. The

869
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: if you look at the way it's written now for

870
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: the i c c s own language, for the UH

871
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: copy or the language of the U s is own

872
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 1: laws according to its own policies, the i c C

873
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: only as jurisdiction over states that have signed on which

874
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: means that the only way right now legally a U

875
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: S national could go to that court is if they

876
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: were also a national of a country that actually signed

877
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: the treaty. Right, Still, that's not enough for the upper

878
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: halls of the White House. Every administration since two thousand two,

879
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: No fooling, they've been concerned enough about this to make

880
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: this one of the few things upon which they all agree.

881
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: It remains untouched for decades. But I know this is

882
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: a longer episode, but we've got to the reindeer games.

883
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: Here's what would happen if the U. S national ended

884
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: up being captured going to the Hague. Fast forward past

885
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: all the blow hard speeches that we go on for

886
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: months and months, all the dick swinging, all the diplomatic rows.

887
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: Just imagine that stuff doesn't matter. What if the US

888
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: actually sent it in heavy military might. Here's what would happen.

889
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,959
Speaker 1: Funny thing is because the Hague is in Netherlands, which

890
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 1: is a NATO member country North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Uh,

891
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 1: they could call in NATO, they could evoke that treaty.

892
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: And the thing about NATO is the most important part

893
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: of it. Is like you've teamed up with some bros

894
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: at a bar and it's a dive bar, and you

895
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: know you might have to get in a fight. So

896
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: you say, hey, bros, let's all you know, like put

897
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: our hands in the circle. Is somebody messages with one

898
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: of us, they mess with all of us. That is

899
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 1: what NATO is. So and all of our collective big

900
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: sticks will swing them together, you know, as a unit,

901
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: exact stick, hang on. So so if it's perfect, they

902
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: evoked NATO, all the NATO countries come together, because that's

903
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: the big thing. Who and who is that with that

904
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,720
Speaker 1: big stick? Matt who is one of the biggest signatories

905
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: to NATO by any measurement, financial and military. Oh wait,

906
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: it's the US. Wait, this is the guy we're here for. Sorry, bro,

907
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: So the U s would be attacking a NATO ally

908
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: who could in turn invoke the NATO treaty and the

909
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 1: US what shrug and saying, I guess the real monsters

910
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: were the friends we made along the way, you guys.

911
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: Or maybe would just some old hard case at the

912
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: Joint chiefs of Staff, like turn the lights down a

913
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: little lower and like slowly smoke a cigarette as he

914
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: started to bomb Kansas while he's listening to Michael Jackson's

915
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: The Man in the Mirror. None of that's going to

916
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 1: make a change. You know, take a look at yourself.

917
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: You don't change. This is who we are. It's fine.

918
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 1: Uh So it's true. It's it's a weird situation. Find oneself.

919
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: And it's very Heller catch twenty two. Because the US

920
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: has been by far historically the largest single donor to NATO. Uh.

921
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: It's also by itself the largest or most dangerous military

922
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: in the world. Uh. This unless something fundamentally changes. What

923
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: that means is this invade. The Hague law is kind

924
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: of like a warning. It's a line in the sand

925
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: that neither party really intends to cross. Uh. And we

926
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: have to point out also, the US routinely ignores other

927
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: countries sovereignty. It routinely ignores, across the span of history,

928
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: international law to unilaterally enforce its own goals. Whether or

929
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: not you agree with those actions, whether or not you

930
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: think there's a great or good argument. That's just true.

931
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,959
Speaker 1: That's not a hot take. That's why it's laughable the whole,

932
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: Like all of the moralistic posturing around, you know, Russia

933
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: invading Ukraine, it's laughable to me. You know, this idea

934
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: that we're the good guys and we're you know, this

935
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: moral compass of the world. It's just not true. Look

936
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: at history. We do that stuff all the time. You know,

937
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: we were just using this as a talking point. You know,

938
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: that's that's I mean, maybe I'm overstating the case, but

939
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: it sure feels like a big old dose of hypocrisy there. Yeah,

940
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: shout out coalition of the willing. Uh. Internally, also, the

941
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: US doesn't seem all that opposed to the i c

942
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: C when it's convenient. Just this year, is we record

943
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: this back in April? I believe Senate Resolution five four

944
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:50,919
Speaker 1: six past unanimously. Uh. This was introduced by a guy

945
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: named Lindsey Graham, who is making quite a name for

946
00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: himself in politics. Uh. This this resolution again bipartisan, unanimous,

947
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: everybody's on board. Uh. It essentially begs the i c

948
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: SEED implores the ICE and I SEC to take any

949
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: appropriate steps to investigate war crimes and crimes against humanity

950
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: committed by the Russian armed forces and their proxies and

951
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: President Putin's military commanders at the direction of Russian President Putin.

952
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: Russia also is not a signatory to the I c S.

953
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: That's right, rules of convenience. Uh. Now will this support

954
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: continue once the US considers the Russia problem one way

955
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: or another solved. Spoiler probably not. And there's funny thing,

956
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: there's just a little we've got a couple. Uh, we've

957
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: got one chuckle for you here, even though if you

958
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: liked our humor, this whole thing is a chuckle fest. Uh.

959
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: For now, if you walk around the Netherlands, if you

960
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 1: talk to like pent of the people there, uh again,

961
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: the Hague is basically it's the third largest city after Rotterdam.

962
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: I think if you ask them about this law, and

963
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: they'll probably know a little bit about it, but they're

964
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: not super worried about a US invasion. If you ask

965
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: the average Dutch person what they think about the US,

966
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: will have a lot of things to say, They'll have

967
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: a lot of questions, but none of them will be

968
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: worried about the U. S Military actually storming that city

969
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: because it's it's just not gonna happen. The Netherlands of

970
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: the epitome of chill too, it's the epitome of neutrality,

971
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, like second to like what Switzerland. I mean, seriously,

972
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: it's like weed has been legal there since time immemorial.

973
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: You know, it's like canals and cafes and like you know,

974
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 1: windmills and stuff and the wooden shoes. I'm sorry, I

975
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: know I'm absolutely stereotyping the Netherlands, but it is a

976
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: very mellow place, which I think is partly why the

977
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: Hague is this kind of, you know, central place for

978
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: the international community to sort of be like, well, they're

979
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: they're not threatening at all, let's just put it there.

980
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: It's still the thing is, it's still on the books.

981
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: Whether or not you think it's an actionable law, Uh,

982
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,919
Speaker 1: it is a real law, and it is a law

983
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: from one of the country's world famous throughout modern history

984
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: for playing judge Dread in any given situation. I am

985
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: the law, says the US all too often, when the

986
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: world said let's all be accountable, the U s took

987
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: a line from Orwell's animal Farm and said, we are

988
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: all accountable, just some of us more than others. And

989
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: that's that's where we have to leave it today. Unfortunately,

990
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: just really quickly, guys, it feels like we've created some

991
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: kind of self fulfilling prophecy with the United States stance

992
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: on the i c C. And then as you described

993
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: the relationship that we have with NATO and how there's

994
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: no real way out what if if, let's say, the

995
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: day come when we do have some high ranking officials

996
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: in the United States that are being sought by the

997
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: i c C. And everybody else except for the United

998
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: States is down because they everyone has agreed those guys

999
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: did some really bad things and they need to be

1000
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: held accountable. If we get to that point and then

1001
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: it's the United States, it feels like we've made a

1002
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: prophecy for us to be the big bad guy that

1003
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: everybody else has to gang up on to defeat, not

1004
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: not right now, but at some point in the future

1005
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: because of the way we've maneuvered our stances with these

1006
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: international organizations. Yeah, but these folks aren't thinking in terms

1007
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: of decades. They're thinking in terms of four years and

1008
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 1: election cycles. And I was going to ask you, Ben, like,

1009
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: if if there was such a situation, does this whole

1010
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: invade the Hague thing does go away for political reasons?

1011
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: Is it something that gets triggered like automatically, like a

1012
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: fail safe kind of mechanism, or is there some like

1013
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: you know, leeway for like the person in charge to

1014
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: decide whether or not to enact that. Yeah, it's a

1015
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: good question, would be Uh, A lot of domestic furor

1016
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of vehement public statements, But

1017
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: then it would be a back room negotiation. The odds

1018
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: against this actually happening again unless something profoundly changes on

1019
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: a fundamental level are enormous. It would be like winning

1020
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 1: an evil lottery four times in a row. Check the

1021
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: math and tell me how what the odds are there.

1022
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: But still, the most important thing to remember is whether

1023
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: or not this is enacted. This is a law on

1024
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: the books, and that's that's our show, folks. We we

1025
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: obviously cannot wait to hear your thoughts. We have a

1026
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: lot of veterans who listen along with us, We have

1027
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people who have traveled throughout the Netherlands,

1028
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: throughout the world, and um, we want to know what

1029
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 1: you think about this law. But before before we go, uh,

1030
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: we wanna, Matt, I don't want to speak for both

1031
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 1: of us, But no, Bro, it's very good to have

1032
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 1: you back, man, Yeah, it's it's good to be back. Um,

1033
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: it's been a crazy couple of weeks. Uh. Very ironically, UM,

1034
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,479
Speaker 1: I'm in a similar position, or in the same exact

1035
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: position that you were in very recently been Um having

1036
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: a moment like this at the end of an episode

1037
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: after being inexplicably gone for a minute. UM, I had

1038
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: a very sad thing happened my family. UM, I lost

1039
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: my mother very suddenly. And UM, you you know, you

1040
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: and Matt have been so supportive and uh so kind

1041
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: and and just you know, been there for me every

1042
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: step of the way and made me feel completely you know,

1043
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: comfortable and taking care of everything that I needed to

1044
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: of course, and UM, you know, I obviously put it

1045
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: out there on the internet, you know, and a lot

1046
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: of listeners and very kind friends, um have reached out

1047
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: and said very very lovely things and have also made

1048
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: me feel very very comforted. UM in this time you know,

1049
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 1: with my my family, my my daughter, UM, my partner

1050
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,080
Speaker 1: and all of our work friends and extended family have

1051
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: just been incredible. But yeah, it's it's been a very

1052
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: trying couple of weeks. But I'm very very happy to

1053
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: be back. And I can't think the two of you

1054
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: and super broducer Paul uh and alexis enough for just

1055
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: supporting me. You know, while I while I dealt with this,

1056
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: it was not something we saw coming, um, and it

1057
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:21,919
Speaker 1: was very unexpected turn. But I'm happy to be back

1058
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: and um, you know, still going to be things to

1059
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: to deal with along the way, but uh, I feel

1060
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: utterly supported and seen by our listeners and and by

1061
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: by all of us here on stuff that I don't

1062
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:34,919
Speaker 1: want you to know. So thanks, thanks to you all,

1063
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: and thanks to all of you out there, and conspiracy

1064
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: Realist Land means the world and we're glad you're here

1065
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: instead of of course invading the hack. Um, I feel

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01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: like I was considering it. I was considering it as

1067
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: a coping mechanism, but it just seemed like a little

1068
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: bit of extracted I didn't think I quite had the

1069
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: resources to get that done. So I'm so glad you're

1070
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: back here. And over the years now without sounding like you,

1071
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: we become part of a community larger and we could

1072
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 1: have imagined. And uh, all conspiracy Realist you are part.

1073
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 1: You are an integral part of that community. We can't

1074
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: wait to hear from you. And I'm sure you you've

1075
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: got some of this as well, Ben, But I mean,

1076
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: I've had folks reach out saying how listening to our

1077
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: show helped them get through the death of a loved

1078
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: one you know, or or you know the death of

1079
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 1: a close family member, and it goes both ways. I

1080
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 1: assure you you are the most important part of this show,

1081
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: as Ben you know, says every episode, and that is

1082
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: not hyperbole. Um. And some of the kind words that

1083
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: folks have reached out with feel like the words of

1084
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: of of friends and a family. And it's been very,

1085
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: very meaningful to me. UM. And I thank you from

1086
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: the bottom of my heart, as as do we all

1087
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, for just being part of that community that

1088
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 1: Ben is referencing here here. Hey, So, if you want

1089
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: to reach out, go ahead and find us on Facebook, Twitter,

1090
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,040
Speaker 1: or YouTube where we are conspiracy stuff on Instagram and

1091
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: we are Conspiracy Stuff show. If you want to call us,

1092
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: our number is one eight three three st d w

1093
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: y t K. Yeah, it's a voicemail system. You'll figure

1094
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: it out. You've got three minutes. Let us know if

1095
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: we can use your voice and message on the air.

1096
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: If you've got more to say than can fit in

1097
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: any of that stuff, why not instead send as a

1098
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio

1099
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is

1100
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from

1101
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app Apple

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01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.