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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or.

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Speaker 2: If you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power that

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Speaker 2: you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, Trust trust Me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person. I've never lived to you.

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Speaker 4: And we never have a live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two fitness models who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lo La Blanc and.

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Speaker 4: I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: We're not fitness models. In case anyone wasn't clearal that.

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Speaker 2: Today is part one of our interview with Lauren Draine.

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Speaker 2: She is an author, an actual fitness model and trainer,

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Speaker 2: registered nurse, and former member of the Westboro Baptist Church.

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Speaker 2: In Part one, today, she's going to tell us about

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Speaker 2: their groups Heyful and Cruel Picketing, how her family joined

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Speaker 2: after her father visited intending to make a documentary making

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Speaker 2: fun of them and what his own upbringing was like,

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Speaker 2: which may have drawn him to the group.

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Speaker 1: We'll discuss what it was like picketing all kinds of events,

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Speaker 1: including funerals and her own high school, how tightly controlled

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Speaker 1: everyday life was, and the extremely normal thing she.

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Speaker 4: Did that got her kicked out, plus.

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Speaker 1: The sad and Shakespearean and a founder of Fred Phelps life.

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Speaker 2: The level of cruelty that these people are capable of

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Speaker 2: is quite shocking, and we will hear all about it

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Speaker 2: and next week stay tuned because there is so much

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Speaker 2: more to get into with her. There's an exciting update,

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Speaker 2: so I.

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Speaker 4: Will say before we go on.

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Speaker 1: I noticed a lot of similarities between Fred Phelps and

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Speaker 1: the founder of the religion I was brought in, and

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Speaker 1: I kept drawing parallels and it was really interesting to me.

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Speaker 4: And then I thought about it a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday, and I was like, I think that that was

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Speaker 1: all earlier days and this religion and now the religion

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Speaker 1: I was raised in, being like one hundred years older.

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Speaker 1: I think there's some people in it that aren't even

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Speaker 1: really in occult and can think freely and appreciate people

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Speaker 1: from all walks of life. So I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: make that clear, you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you're making that parallel, you're more thinking about

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Speaker 2: like just really specific things in terms of like mentalities.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the founder, the beginning, the like some strange stuff

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Speaker 1: I saw when I was really little.

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Speaker 4: But I think it's opened up a lot, thank god.

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Speaker 4: Any who? Any who cultiest thing of the week, anyone?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me yours?

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Speaker 5: All?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 1: Well, Harry, I almost said Harry Styles. No, Harry, uh

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Speaker 1: the Prince of Wales.

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Speaker 4: Harry, Oh my god, Harry Spare.

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Speaker 1: He just released his memoir Spirits, sold the Brazilian copies,

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Speaker 1: and I guess. In it, he says that his family,

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Speaker 1: when he started going to therapy, feared that he was

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Speaker 1: joining a cult because he was learning all of these

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Speaker 1: things about himself and being like, you're not supposed to

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Speaker 1: do this, and you're doing this to me, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: we've lost him to the cult of psychotherapy and it's

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Speaker 1: just very ironic and fun and wow. They also think

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Speaker 1: Megan has brainwatched him, apparently, so exciting stuff. I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine being raised in the bubble that that family has

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Speaker 1: been raised in and then somebody going to therapy and

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Speaker 1: being like, actually, you're silencing me or you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, why it's too much?

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Speaker 5: It's good?

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Speaker 2: Did you watch their doc? No?

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Speaker 4: I haven't yet, have you?

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Speaker 5: Yes, I have?

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Speaker 4: What'd you think?

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I understand why people are like, oh, you know, they're

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Speaker 2: curating their and air, but also like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you'll watch The Crown. Obviously it's

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Speaker 2: fictionalized history, but a lot of it is based on

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Speaker 2: very real stuff, like there is a very real history

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Speaker 2: of the royal family trying to control the narrative so

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Speaker 2: so so hard that I don't actually totally understand why

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Speaker 2: there are people who are so adamant that Megan is

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Speaker 2: like this lying, manipulative whore or whatever whatever you think

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Speaker 2: of that. The character of Maggot, which we don't know her,

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Speaker 2: you guys, we don't know what her character is. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure she's fine.

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Speaker 4: She's not fine.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she's obnoxious, she's an actress. She you know,

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Speaker 1: no one's perfect. I'm sure she's a lot. But also

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Speaker 1: this institution is complicated and very dark in many ways.

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Speaker 1: So the two just going at each other. There's no

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Speaker 1: resolution because nobody's perfect, and you know.

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Speaker 4: Everybody just has to do acid or mushroom.

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Speaker 2: And that is the conclusion of that I that anyone

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Speaker 2: would draw from what you just said. Ah No, I

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Speaker 2: just don't. I just don't understand, like the women that

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Speaker 2: we decide culturally must be like these virulently evil people

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Speaker 2: who are just manipulating us. All Like that might be

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Speaker 2: true in some cases, sometimes with the certainty when it's

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Speaker 2: like she's going up against a very very yeah, like

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Speaker 2: old and powerful institution that does not like controversy and

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Speaker 2: does not and literally is afraid of their own relevance

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Speaker 2: because then they the taxpayers won't pay for their existence anymore.

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Speaker 2: Then they might not exist as an institution. Like it

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Speaker 2: is very important that the public not think that they're

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Speaker 2: bad to them. So it all like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I think it all tracks just fine. Also, Harry can

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Speaker 2: get it just saying.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, who would have thought twenty years ago that

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Speaker 1: he would have been the hot one.

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Speaker 4: It's shocking and beautiful it is.

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Speaker 2: I know, I never thought I never saw coming. When

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Speaker 2: I was a kid, my mom was like, you should

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Speaker 2: date Harry, and I was like, no, not for me.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm like, I don't know, pretty for me?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, if we could turn back time.

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Speaker 2: If only I had dated Prince Harry when I had

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Speaker 2: the chance, that's the one thing we would fix. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I just think it's interesting. I think it's

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Speaker 2: interesting watching the psych extreme polarization around, like individuals who

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Speaker 2: everyone has a fucking opinion about, but none of us

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Speaker 2: actually know that person. Royal's aside, y'all, I think it's

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Speaker 2: time to talk to Lauren Draine, whose beast story is

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Speaker 2: fascinating and she as a person is amazing, And uh,

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Speaker 2: are you ready?

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Speaker 4: I'm ready. Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Okay. This show is sponsored by Betterhelp. I know that

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Speaker 2: I am out my best self when I have people

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Speaker 2: in my life that I can talk to about what

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Speaker 2: is going on with me, like challenges when I'm isolated

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Speaker 2: or like don't have a lot of people to like

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Speaker 2: talk it through with me, can seem so much bigger

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Speaker 2: than when I have someone there who can just kind

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Speaker 2: of help me tease it apart and figure out what's

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Speaker 2: going on and get to the root of it. And

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Speaker 2: for me, that is best provided by a therapist. That

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Speaker 2: truly is what makes me feel like my best self.

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Speaker 2: I feel supported, I feel like I have someone, I

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Speaker 2: feel like I'm not alone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, someone who never stops talking with their friends. I

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Speaker 1: always used to say I don't need a therapist. I

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Speaker 1: talk to people about my emotions and issues.

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Speaker 4: All of the time.

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Speaker 1: A very different to talk to somebody who is highly

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Speaker 1: trained and knows what to look for and what to

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Speaker 1: pick up on to help you overcome patterns. Pattern patterns, baby,

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Speaker 1: recognize them, fix them, get over them.

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Speaker 4: Yes, love it, And.

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Speaker 2: One great way to do that is by using better Help.

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Speaker 2: very important feature.

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Speaker 4: I think if you.

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Speaker 1: Want to live a more empowered life, therapy can get

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Speaker 1: h e LP dot com slash Trust.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Lauren Draine to trust Me. Thanks for having you guys,

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here. I am like

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Speaker 2: very excited that we're talking to you today.

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Speaker 5: This.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe we haven't done in Westborough Church episode

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Speaker 2: yet and I'm just very excited to hear your story,

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Speaker 2: so thank you. So for anyone who does not know

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Speaker 2: what the Westboro Baptist Church is, can you give just

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Speaker 2: like a general description of this church that you were

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Speaker 2: once a member of.

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Speaker 5: Oh boy, Okay. So this is a pretty small church,

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Speaker 5: non denominational. It's not associated with any other churches. It's Inintepeka, Kansas.

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Speaker 5: It's worldwide known, infamous for being very like hateful, like

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Speaker 5: one of the almost hated churches in America. They protest

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Speaker 5: military funerals, different religious backgrounds, churches, political, religious, you name it.

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Speaker 5: God hates this. God hates that. They're very in your

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Speaker 5: face judgmental and condemning. Lots and lots of people to help.

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Speaker 2: So they'd pick it outside of military funerals and just

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Speaker 2: the most vile places that you could be possibly like

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Speaker 2: spewing hate at people.

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Speaker 3: I have actually had.

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Speaker 7: The honor of having a friend's funeral.

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Speaker 2: Picketed by the oh Way, So.

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Speaker 5: That was interesting. Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Also, Lauren, I am from Kansas and I.

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Speaker 3: Was raised in a very similar religion, so feel a

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Speaker 3: lot of kinship with their book.

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Speaker 5: It's really interesting. The older I get, the more I'm

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Speaker 5: realizing that there are a lot of cults out there. Actually,

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Speaker 5: I thought at first I didn't want to believe it.

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Speaker 5: We were taught from the time we were little that

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Speaker 5: our church was not a cult. But that's what everyone

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Speaker 5: calls it, and we need to fight back against that,

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Speaker 5: and that's just what people say so they won't believe

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Speaker 5: the truth. But after I left, I soon learned like

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Speaker 5: the power control they had, the public humiliation, the shaming,

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Speaker 5: that disowning, the banishing, the ripping the families apart. It

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Speaker 5: has this power structure of trying to fear people into believing,

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Speaker 5: shame and people into doing what they think, and it

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Speaker 5: causes a lot of destruction, both in the church and

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Speaker 5: outside church.

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Speaker 2: I think I first became aware of this group from

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Speaker 2: the Louis through documentaries which I just thought, we're fascinating.

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Speaker 2: At the time, the church was labeled do you call

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Speaker 2: it the church? Do you call it the cult? How

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Speaker 2: do you refer to it?

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Speaker 5: That's a good question. I mean, we always called the

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Speaker 5: church for so many years. I was there for seven years,

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Speaker 5: so I do often say the church. But it is

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Speaker 5: a cult. It's definitely a cult. One thousand percent believe

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Speaker 5: in that. But yeah, Louis, did I think three sets

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Speaker 5: of documentaries in the Church is the Most Hated Family

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Speaker 5: in America a BBC documentary, so if you're interested to

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Speaker 5: see it, check it out. I think I was like

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Speaker 5: maybe nineteen or twenty when he did the first one.

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Speaker 5: He did another one after I'd already left, so it's

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Speaker 5: been now fifteen years since I've been out, But I

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Speaker 5: think he did one like two or three years after

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Speaker 5: I had left, and I was in that one too.

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Speaker 2: So further context, it was labeled as a hate group

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Speaker 2: by the Southern Law Poverty Center for a homophobia and

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Speaker 2: anti Semitism. How did your family first come to join

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Speaker 2: this church cult?

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Speaker 5: I lived a relatively normal life, I would say, like

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Speaker 5: a typical go to school, go to public school, live

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Speaker 5: with my parents and parents or like soccer mom and

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Speaker 5: softball dad, you know, like your typical like like call

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Speaker 5: me family in America. Right, and then right around the

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Speaker 5: age of like fourteen, I don't know if it's just me,

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Speaker 5: I'm the oldest of four going into puberty or discovering

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Speaker 5: males for the first time, or dating that kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: My dad was at the same time, he was developing

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Speaker 5: films and doing documentary style films. He wanted to do

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Speaker 5: a documentary on the Westboro Baptist Church. He went to

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Speaker 5: I think he went to school. He went to college

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Speaker 5: in at Kau so he learned about the Westborough in Tapeka, Kansas,

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Speaker 5: which is right next to Lawrence, Kansas. And when he

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Speaker 5: learned about them, he wanted to like do a documentary.

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Speaker 5: So his first big film break was going to be

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Speaker 5: on the Westborough. So he spent a whole summer filming them,

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Speaker 5: like their protests, their pickets, where they go, what they believe,

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Speaker 5: their line of thinking of why God hates this or

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Speaker 5: what punishments are being brought on us for this. Basically

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Speaker 5: they say every single punishment is from God, like whether

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Speaker 5: it's a sickness, pandemic, calamity, you know, every weather storm,

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Speaker 5: you know, every time someone dies, it's God's hand. So

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Speaker 5: he was like studying them and filming them, and he

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Speaker 5: was kind of trying to do like a mockumentary style

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Speaker 5: film at first, so he was trying to mock them,

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Speaker 5: and that that was his intent, or so he said.

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Speaker 5: And he ended up spending a full summer with them, and.

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Speaker 8: He got very close with the pastor at the time,

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Speaker 8: the pastor of Bread Phelps and his daughter and their family,

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Speaker 8: and he basically took by the end of the summer,

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Speaker 8: towards the end of filming the film and editing the film,

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Speaker 8: he was like, we're going to move our family from Florida,

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Speaker 8: where we were living at the time, back to Kansas.

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Speaker 5: And I was fourteen. I had just completely switched my

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Speaker 5: life around, Like I'd already started like going to like

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Speaker 5: high school dances and like little friend dates and stuff

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Speaker 5: like that, like what a fourteen year old might be

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Speaker 5: involved with. And they're like, absolutely none of that. No

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Speaker 5: more dating, no more dyeing your hair. No we're wearing makeup.

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Speaker 5: Your clothes have to like, we have to change your

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Speaker 5: dress code. Everything went into a huge culture shock changed

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Speaker 5: for me. Lots of rules, lots of shaming, lots of

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Speaker 5: punishments for me to adapt to this new lifestyle. Wow.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we hear so many stories about the

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Speaker 2: transition like from a cult to secular life, but we

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Speaker 2: don't get to hear a lot of like what it's

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Speaker 2: like to be a regular teenager and then suddenly you're

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Speaker 2: in an extreme group, I mean unimaginable. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: when I was twelve, when I believed in our like

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Speaker 2: self proclaimed profit or whatever, and that was a like

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Speaker 2: crazy experience and that didn't even that wasn't even like

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Speaker 2: a full fledged group that I was a part of

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Speaker 2: on a daily basis. That was more of just like

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Speaker 2: an ideology and like separation from my mom. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's just so that's so crazy, it's so next level

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Speaker 2: real quick, Megan, can we just circle back? What why

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Speaker 2: was why were they piketting your friend's funeral? In particular?

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Speaker 3: He was famous, I guess, so, yeah, he wasn't gay,

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Speaker 3: but there were just a lot of them. He was

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Speaker 3: buried in Texas, and there was a lot of people

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Speaker 3: holding signs that said his name.

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Speaker 2: And that he was in Hell, and that was that hmmm.

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Speaker 6: I think just because he was part of Hollywood and

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Speaker 6: stuff like that. But I was also just going to

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Speaker 6: add that there's two things that stood out to me

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Speaker 6: about Okay, So number one, I did not realize that

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Speaker 6: Fred Phelps was a lawyer, a good lawyer, and that

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Speaker 6: everybody in this system is a lawyer.

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Speaker 5: So it makes sense that.

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Speaker 7: When your dad went, he was like, Aha, I'm going

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Speaker 7: to make fun of them, and then he comes.

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Speaker 9: Back and he's like totally convinced that this person is

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Speaker 9: a prophet or whatever you would call it. And then

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Speaker 9: number two, it was also interesting, Lola and I were

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Speaker 9: discussing this. Your sister had kidney cancer, which I wonder

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Speaker 9: we often see that people join extreme things after they

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Speaker 9: deal with something traumatic, so it's interesting that right when

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Speaker 9: this was happening, he joined this group.

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Speaker 5: Those were my two takeaways from that. That's a very

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Speaker 5: insightful point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the timeline of that, like the cancer

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Speaker 2: diagnosis to the joining.

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Speaker 5: So my little sister was born, was born in Florida.

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Speaker 5: We were both born in Tampa, Florida, but we moved

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Speaker 5: within six six to eight or nine months of her

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Speaker 5: being born to Kansas, so she was still young. And

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Speaker 5: you're absolutely right. I have a little blurry on the

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Speaker 5: exact like doctor in location in the first check up

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Speaker 5: we did, but once we knew she had cancer, we

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Speaker 5: wanted to go near one of the best children's hospitals.

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Speaker 5: So it's actually another reason. But the timeline of Taylor

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Speaker 5: getting cancer versus the church are two different timelines. When

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Speaker 5: Taylor was tiny, we moved to Kansas. I think this

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Speaker 5: is the first time we moved to Kansas, Yes, the

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Speaker 5: first time. So we moved near Lawrence. He ended up

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Speaker 5: going to school there and all that, and then we

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Speaker 5: went to Kansas City, Kansas City Children's Center, one of

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Speaker 5: those children's hospitals in Kansas City, Missouri. But that was

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Speaker 5: when she was like six months old. We joined the

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Speaker 5: Westboro when she was like I was fourteen, so she

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Speaker 5: was five and a half years younger. She was like

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Speaker 5: nine or ten. So it's still traumatic. Like I mean,

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Speaker 5: there's other traumatic things that have happened in her life

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Speaker 5: as well. I think my dad's been through a lot

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Speaker 5: of trauma in this past with his family. He's he's

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Speaker 5: part part part of the I wasn't able to put

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Speaker 5: in the book or I didn't even know if I

337
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,960
Speaker 5: should delve into his history as much. But he was

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Speaker 5: the product. So he was the baby of a marriage affair.

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Speaker 5: So his mother already was married and his father was

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Speaker 5: already married, and they had their own families, and they

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00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 5: came together and she they slept together, and they had

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Speaker 5: a baby outside of those two marriages. So that's that's

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Speaker 5: my dad. So he is like the product of like

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Speaker 5: nobody wanted you, Like the step siblings didn't want him

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Speaker 5: on either side. The parents didn't want him because you

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00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 5: weren't supposed to have that relationship and it didn't end

347
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Speaker 5: up working out anyways, So he was he grew up

348
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Speaker 5: into a split family, like being hated by everyone, and

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Speaker 5: he was just he was the youngest of all of

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Speaker 5: them as well, so he got bullied by He did

351
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,280
Speaker 5: tell me growing up, I got bullied by my sisters.

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Speaker 5: I got bullied by this and that. Like he was

353
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Speaker 5: always the outcast at school. I think he ended up

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Speaker 5: dropping out of high school. My dad is a very

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Speaker 5: very intelligent man. He and I will say the same

356
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Speaker 5: thing about the church members as well, Like back to

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Speaker 5: your point about okay, they're all attorneys. These are highly

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Speaker 5: highly educated humans. You cannot debate with them like a

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Speaker 5: lot of things, like you could try to debate civil

360
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,399
Speaker 5: rights with them, history, culture, They will get you, like

361
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Speaker 5: they're so smart. They practice the art of debate and

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Speaker 5: intelligence very often. They teach the kids this too, So

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Speaker 5: it's not a matter of intelligence, and it's not a

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Speaker 5: mat of them being like deranged or full of incest

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Speaker 5: or these some of these like people mock them and

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Speaker 5: say all these things. They're actually really smart. They're just very,

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Speaker 5: very very brainwashed into these beliefs, and it's so hardcore.

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Speaker 5: It goes generations. Now it's gone from Fred Phelps to

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Speaker 5: his daughter, to his grandchildren to his great grandchildren. We're

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Speaker 5: going like four or five generations deep of this belief system.

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Speaker 5: And because it's such a dynamic, like us versus the world.

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Speaker 5: It's not just like us versus one other church, it's

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Speaker 5: like us versus everyone like that. That's how they model

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Speaker 5: this is what they've modeled to children's to for the

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Speaker 5: time you're little, born into it. You think the world

376
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Speaker 5: hates you. You think all your friends at school hate you.

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00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 5: You think everyone outside hates you, interviewers hate you, journalists

378
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 5: hate you. Like you're taught this knee versus everyone mentality,

379
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Speaker 5: so you're very defensive and you're very like, I'm only

380
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Speaker 5: unified with these people, right, So it's very hard to

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Speaker 5: break free from that mentality. On top of the fact,

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Speaker 5: if I even start to question that mentality, I will

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Speaker 5: risk losing my place here, which means I lose every

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Speaker 5: family member. I have every sibling, every like my mother,

385
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Speaker 5: my father, like it's all cut off like this. And

386
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Speaker 5: sometimes some people get kicked out over freaking nothing, like

387
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Speaker 5: I got keeped out over talking to a boy on

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Speaker 5: the internet. I was twenty years old. I never touched

389
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Speaker 5: a guy. I never dated a guy. I didn't even

390
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Speaker 5: see when a person. I never kissed one. I literally

391
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 5: talked through email to fifteen hundred miles away to another

392
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Speaker 5: guy who emailed me back. And I kept doing that

393
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Speaker 5: because I'm freaking twenty years old. I'm like, I was

394
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Speaker 5: questioning the church at the time, and I was just like, listen,

395
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Speaker 5: I'm of age. I'm going to nursing school. I'm going

396
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 5: to graduate very soon. Like their whole thing was you

397
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Speaker 5: can't date or court someone until you're finished with your

398
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,959
Speaker 5: college degree because that's distracting and that's not godly. They

399
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Speaker 5: have all these rules in place. So I said, okay, great,

400
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Speaker 5: I'm on my track. I'm about to graduate. Like what's

401
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,479
Speaker 5: my How do I go about like courting or dating someone?

402
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,919
Speaker 5: First of all, religious places are so intense. There's like

403
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 5: no one believes all this. But if I if I

404
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 5: do find someone that believes all this, like can I

405
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 5: communicate with him? Am I? And They're like no. So

406
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Speaker 5: it's like, not only are you limiting my actions to

407
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Speaker 5: like kids, I grew up with that feel like my brothers,

408
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 5: like I grew up with these kids, and you're limiting

409
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Speaker 5: me to them, and a lot of them are all cousins,

410
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 5: so that's weird. But oh no, you won't, you won't

411
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Speaker 5: let you won't let me talk to someone who like

412
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Speaker 5: is has similar thinking. So I got kicked out for

413
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 5: that reason. It was just like it was very crazy.

414
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,159
Speaker 5: It was very crazy. But people are kicked off all

415
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 5: different races, and just like that, that's what you're gone.

416
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Speaker 5: You can't contact your mom and dad, can't talk to

417
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Speaker 5: your siblings. You get your stuck out as soon as possible.

418
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Speaker 5: They erase your pictures from all the family photos.

419
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Speaker 2: They erase they erased your picture from the family photos.

420
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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I've seen people take a sharpiet huge and

421
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Speaker 5: black out someone's face.

422
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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

423
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Speaker 5: They try, they try to shame us. And like I

424
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 5: watched when other people got kicked out, whether it was

425
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Speaker 5: like elders or grandparents. I saw fathers get taken from kids,

426
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 5: kids get to you know, like young adults get blacked out.

427
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Speaker 5: And basically they wanted us inside the church to be

428
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Speaker 5: fearful of that. And see, oh if we if we

429
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Speaker 5: step out of line, if we question this religion, if

430
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Speaker 5: we question our parents, we're going to lose everything, We

431
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Speaker 5: lose our faith, our whole, you know. So it's a

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Speaker 5: very very effective scare tactic, and it's it's really it's

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Speaker 5: gang mentality and it's bullying, and they freaking it freaking works.

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Speaker 1: Trust Me is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

435
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Speaker 2: Most of you listening right now are probably multitasking. Yep.

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00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,120
Speaker 2: While you're listening to us talk, you're probably also driving

437
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458
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Speaker 2: bullying is interesting because, like, just hearing about how your

459
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 2: dad was bullied so much growing up and probably was

460
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 2: constantly getting the brunt of other people's meanness, it's so

461
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: interesting that he would then be drawn to the bullies.

462
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: And I mean, obviously this is just sheer speculation of

463
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 2: someone else's psychology, but like I wonder if that sort

464
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 2: of feels like, oh, finally I can be in the

465
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: position of a little bit more power and I don't

466
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: have to be the one who's like hurt anymore. Just

467
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: just a speculation.

468
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 5: I think there's something to that, for sure. I think

469
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 5: it's I don't know if he's ever verbalized this, and

470
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 5: I'm speaking speculation too, I don't know what he feels

471
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 5: or beliefs if he gets to speak on that, if

472
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 5: he ever knows out, you know, does his thing. But

473
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 5: I think that it's very real thing. Hurt people hurt people,

474
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 5: whether they're conscious to it or not conscious. Some people

475
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 5: might consciously be like, well, if someone's going to beat

476
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 5: up on me, I'll beat up on them. And other

477
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 5: people are absolutely unconscious. They don't even know that they're

478
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 5: picking a fight with other people, or that they have

479
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 5: a power struggle inside and they're projecting it on the outside,

480
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 5: or that they have like some hole missing and they're

481
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 5: filling it with control, or they're filling it with the

482
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 5: need to be bigger than. I'm better than you, I

483
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 5: have more God, like you know, I'm in a better

484
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 5: relationship with God, or whatever it is. They're trying to

485
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 5: be more than And I saw that with a lot

486
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 5: of the members, so not just my dad, like all

487
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 5: of them. And I thought it was so weird because

488
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 5: at these funerals, we would taunt people while they're walking

489
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 5: into grieve whoever it is that's obviously someone, and they'd

490
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 5: be like, Oh, you're going to hell just like them.

491
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 5: You shouldn't even be here, you should be worshiping the dead.

492
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 5: And they were just like it wasn't even a human,

493
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 5: just the things that would come out of our mouths

494
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 5: were so dehumanizing and so like absolutely not no empathy.

495
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 5: And I just had to grow up on this picket

496
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 5: line like I was fourteen, you know, on a fourteen

497
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 5: year old, you're still trying to figure out life, who

498
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 5: you are, what you're you know, totally to be exposed

499
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 5: to this, and I've thrown into it immediately. Now I

500
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 5: have to hold these signs that I didn't even make.

501
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 5: I didn't necessarily understand. I was just learning the Bible,

502
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 5: and we read the Bible every day for seven years early,

503
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 5: so I did. So I learned the biblical stories, concepts

504
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 5: versus pretty well in and out, and I fell in

505
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 5: love with a lot of parts of it. You know,

506
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 5: a lot of the love, joy, peace, empathy kind of

507
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 5: stuff you've seen in the New Testament. But I know

508
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 5: all of it. So if anyone wants like, that's one

509
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 5: thing we were learned learning as we grew up is

510
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 5: we had to share these concepts and we were like

511
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 5: forced to have these like religious biblical debates on picket

512
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 5: lines based basically street corners with kids and families and

513
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 5: adults older than us. From the age of tiny, tiny,

514
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 5: Like I'm talking there were two year Olds on picket

515
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 5: lines three four. We had we had such insightful messages

516
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 5: that people would throw things at us or yell at

517
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 5: us or it was. It was a very volatile, like upbreaking.

518
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 7: Well, yeah, that's one of the interesting things and something

519
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 7: that I relate to. Also, it reminds me of Moses

520
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 7: Storm our second episode Lo Laha.

521
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 5: They like, pick it on it go to hell.

522
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, you going to hell.

523
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: It's like he would say it with us.

524
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 7: Like, but the church that I was raised in was

525
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 7: very much like mainstream Christianity has it completely wrong. They

526
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 7: are more sinful than just people who aren't Christians. Christmas

527
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 7: is the worst thing you could do.

528
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 5: It's so awful.

529
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 7: And like a lot of people don't read the Bible,

530
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 7: so you could have conversations with them that they couldn't

531
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 7: argue back on. They just be God loves everyone, and

532
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 7: you'd be like, actually, the Bible says that he very

533
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 7: much doesn't. He's a very angry person, and like, you know,

534
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 7: you could just go on like that forever. So if

535
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 7: you want to use the Bible, it is a very

536
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 7: violent book full of a lot of hatred.

537
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 3: So you can twist it to make sense in the

538
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 3: way that he was very easily.

539
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true, that's true. There are violet stories in

540
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 5: there for sure.

541
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lauren, what did you think when you first got there?

542
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you're like a regular fourteen year old kid, like,

543
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: did you have any exposure to religion at this point?

544
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: And did it seem crazier? Were you just like, Oh,

545
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: I guess this is what we're doing now.

546
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 5: I've always been a very curious human, so I always

547
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 5: ask lots of questions. I always ask my parents lost

548
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 5: a questions. So is this what we believe?

549
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 2: Now?

550
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 5: Are we going to question some of the things that

551
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 5: they say on their signs? Can we look up and

552
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 5: make sure that everything we're saying is practice? This really

553
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 5: the way we should treat people like I was constantly

554
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 5: always asking questions. I think that's another reason I got

555
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 5: picked out, because I would shut the f up.

556
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 2: I'm sure, Yeah, there it is.

557
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 5: Yeah. We would have these Bible studies where I was

558
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 5: on the older end of the Yeah, so I was

559
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 5: like between fourteen and twenty twenty one, and then the

560
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 5: younger kids. We'd hold these Bible studies, whereas all the

561
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 5: kids in the basement, I'm talking like thirty forty people

562
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 5: maybe more than that. Yeah, thirty forty and I would

563
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 5: in front of everyone when they're all supposed to be

564
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 5: just towing the line and listening to what mom says

565
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 5: and what Grandpa says and everything. I'm just like, wait

566
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 5: a minute, why do we say this verse says God

567
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 5: does not have the pleasure and the death of the wicked?

568
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 5: Why do we have pleasure in the death of the way.

569
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 5: I blurt it out and be like, look, guys, this

570
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 5: is different than what we say. And they're like, you

571
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 5: need to shut the f up, because they would say

572
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 5: I'm satanic, I'm divisive, I stir up strife, I don't

573
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 5: know what I'm talking about. I don't listen to my elders.

574
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 5: I should get in trouble. I would get punished. I

575
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 5: would get more like chores given to me if I

576
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 5: ever started a question. I started questioning things about like

577
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 5: the random ass rules they would give us, like one

578
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 5: year just because I started asking about marriage, And like

579
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 5: I told you, guys, as I was close to graduating,

580
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 5: I was wondering how do I go about courting someone

581
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 5: in or out the church, And one of the members

582
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 5: just said, we don't believe in marriage anymore. I was like,

583
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 5: oh really. I was like, that's cool, because where is

584
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 5: that in the Bible. And she's like, no, it's not

585
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 5: believe it anymore because God's about to come and the

586
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 5: Lord's coming, and you're being selfish in vain and you

587
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 5: wanting a husband yourself is selfish, so God, if you don't,

588
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 5: you need to trust God and just shut up.

589
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: Was this someone who was married herself?

590
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 5: Nope, No, okay, get married. She also had a baby

591
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,239
Speaker 5: out of wedlock, which normally some people don't care about that,

592
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 5: but they actually do care about that. They shame people

593
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 5: for that. And I can. Let's off like five of

594
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 5: the women above my generation, right, so I'm like generation three.

595
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 5: But the women above me, who would all shame me

596
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 5: for things, they had children out of wedlock, which they

597
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 5: think is a crime. So I think it's funny and

598
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 5: hypocritical that you can't even hold your own rules. You

599
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 5: judge others for these rules, but you're atoned for them.

600
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 5: You are forgiven. But no one else out in the

601
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 5: other world living this life is forgiven.

602
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: That is how it goes, right.

603
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 7: But they were so they were his kids, right, they

604
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 7: were all like Phelps people.

605
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 5: Correct. Yeah, So Fred Phelps had I think thirteen children, right,

606
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 5: I don't know a lot of them and I think two.

607
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 5: Let's say four of them had left at one point,

608
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 5: so we still had what's the math there? Nine the

609
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 5: children left, So a lot of them are the attorneys

610
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 5: and they run the church. They run all the rules.

611
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 5: They're called the elders. They tell the kids how to live,

612
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 5: what's simple. They punish them openly if they do anything

613
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 5: like if I I don't know, I'm trying to think

614
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 5: of something that I did o, if I wore something

615
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,479
Speaker 5: in a perfect school, they would send an email blast

616
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 5: out to all the members, right, so all my peers

617
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 5: my age and under would see it. All the old

618
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 5: elders above me would see it. All my neighbors, church

619
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 5: doors would Elseee. Oh, Lauren was throwing the wrong close today.

620
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 5: She's being a little slut. She's being a whore. She

621
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 5: probably just wants to, you know, screw a guy at school.

622
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 5: So she yeah, she needs to. We need to. We

623
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 5: need to all score. So everyone would come to me

624
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 5: individually and tell me how shitty I'm being. And if

625
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 5: I don't stop doing whatever it was, then I'm going

626
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 5: to go to hell and I'm we can't get picked

627
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 5: out of the church, so they would do this to me.

628
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 5: They would do this to me over if I put

629
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 5: fingernail polish on, if I if I cut my hair.

630
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 5: So we weren't allowed to cut our hair. But I

631
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 5: was a very anxious child for obvious reasons, and I

632
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 5: would twist on my hair like this. This is like

633
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 5: something I would just do, nervous have it. And they

634
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 5: were like, you're trying to cut your hair without scissors,

635
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 5: so we need to talk to you about this. And

636
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 5: these are just like small things. They would go invadeer life,

637
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 5: like on my cell phone. They would my dad and

638
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 5: parents and everyone would check my cell phone to see

639
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 5: if I'm calling your texting anyone I shouldn't. They would

640
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 5: check my computer history. They can walk in and out

641
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 5: of my room at any time. They have. The kids

642
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 5: don't have privacy. You can't like decide if you can

643
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 5: go to the movies with friends, like you have to

644
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 5: ask mom and dad if you have like the day off,

645
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 5: like you know, because most of the time we're doing chores.

646
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 5: We would always be like I went to school full time.

647
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 5: I got scholarships and I paid for my way. My

648
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 5: parents didn't pay my way. I paid for it with

649
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 5: my money and my scholar ships of my job, on

650
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 5: top of all the chores I did at home and

651
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 5: watching the kids.

652
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 9: They would probably still spy on you while you were

653
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 9: completely independent, is what I'm Yes, and.

654
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 5: They would, and they would take so like, let's say,

655
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 5: had a Sunday off, one random Sunday, they were like, Yeah,

656
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 5: you're doing the whole family's like laundry all day today,

657
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 5: or you're going to clean out that's toolshit. Or you're

658
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 5: gonna go on fix somebody else's toilet or paint their

659
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 5: walls like we always were.

660
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: Sound like you're pretty handy, Laura.

661
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 5: It was the massive amount of control was just so yeah,

662
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 5: so intense.

663
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: So I think it's interesting because they're so extreme in

664
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: so many ways, but then they're letting you go to

665
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: school and have like a secular life to some extent.

666
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: Why why would they do that? I would I was

667
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: so expecting to hear when I was listening to some

668
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: of your interviews that you were homeschooled. Do you know

669
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: what the what that's all about?

670
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 5: Well, I mean they would say that they want us

671
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 5: to be a shining light for.

672
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 7: The same you have to be in the world, not

673
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 7: of the world, oh the world.

674
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 5: But I honestly believe I mean they had they had

675
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 5: a lot of work to do, and I don't think

676
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 5: that they could have handled help schooling thirty to forty

677
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 5: kids right, no break away. I mean everything else about

678
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 5: our life was was divided, like like as soon as

679
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 5: school's over, like we might go to track meet when

680
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 5: we I'm hanging out with the track friends and there's

681
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 5: all s track meets over, like get away from them,

682
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 5: like okay, or it's just so weird. They wanted us

683
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 5: to have that us versus the mentality at all times,

684
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 5: and that we are representing God, so we need to

685
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: be in your face with our belief system.

686
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: Do you think that being at regular school contributed to

687
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: like your independent thinking because you were exposed to like

688
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: other ways of living.

689
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 5: I think to a degree. But we still had like

690
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 5: I went to school with a ton of my church members,

691
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 5: like we would all get classes together in high school

692
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 5: and in college, so I mean picket. We picket at

693
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 5: our own high school in college as well, it did.

694
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 7: Yes, they'd be like but buy someone in math and

695
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 7: be like, thank you for letting me borrow your pencil,

696
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 7: then be like outside during lunch fighting with them.

697
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 5: It's so wild. At lunch, we would take our lunch break,

698
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 5: which is the only you know, and we would have

699
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 5: to like stand out there and pick it. And God

700
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 5: hates you. You're going to hell. This is a to peak,

701
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 5: a city of hell, all this stuff, and we'd just

702
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 5: be sitting there eating our thing while all of our

703
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 5: kids are driving vibe. Remember one day, someone must have

704
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 5: gotten really mad at us because they they shot at

705
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 5: us with bb gun. We're always doing stupid crap and

706
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 5: trying to incite everybody and make everyone pissed off about something.

707
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 5: So I mean, something's bound to happen when you constantly

708
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 5: are provoking everybody not.

709
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: To session and they're most like emotionally intense moments. But

710
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: of course, obviously people shouldn't shoot.

711
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 7: People because well, the thing that I found interesting was

712
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 7: that you used their anger as proof that what you

713
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 7: were saying was correct, or at least he he did

714
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 7: and gave that message to you guys, like they're angry

715
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 7: because we're saying something great. They wouldn't be if we

716
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 7: were just crazy.

717
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, that's that was huge and that was a

718
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 5: huge part of the mentality for us. Like when we

719
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 5: would say Okay, well, how do we know that we're

720
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 5: not just saying something need to cool or people get

721
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 5: mad about that too. So there's like, well, you know,

722
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 5: they don't have an argument, they don't have a biblical

723
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 5: argument for it, and they're angry because they don't want

724
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 5: to believe it's the truth and they don't want to

725
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 5: change their ways. So they're basically just saying that they're

726
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 5: taking their anger out on us. We're just the messenger.

727
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 5: Don't shoot the messenger.

728
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, and they weren't worried about like actually like

729
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 2: attracting people to the group and making and like growing

730
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 2: the group. Was that not.

731
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 5: They constantly said they weren't. They weren't interested in recruits.

732
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 5: They thought every year they thought that like this is

733
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 5: the year that Christ is going to return back and

734
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 5: seeing you know that people is going to save and

735
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 5: cast away, that people are going to cast way, and

736
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 5: every year obviously he didn't, and and like it just

737
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 5: more there are a couple of families to join, like

738
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 5: my family is one. I think it was like a

739
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 5: Jake's family, a couple other small family, small people trickling

740
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 5: in here and there. But they weren't like about saving people.

741
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 5: They were about we're here to let you know that

742
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 5: if you don't turn from your ways, you're condemned to hell.

743
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 5: So they thought their whole message was not a message

744
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 5: of salvation. It was not a message of anything other

745
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 5: than you're doomed. Thank you for telling me.

746
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so god, I know that now.

747
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's no solution, just like you're definitely going to help.

748
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 5: Have fun.

749
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: Wow wow yeah, okay.

750
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god. So it's like, talk to us about the.

751
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 5: Very enticing for new members.

752
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk to us about the picketing and what that

753
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: was like, Like, was it excited, did it feel awkward? Like, yeah,

754
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 2: tell us.

755
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 5: Okay, there. I've been to tens of thousands of tickets

756
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 5: probably in those years or these thousands, and because we

757
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 5: would pick it every day on our street corners, like

758
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 5: at school or work or whatever not work, school, church,

759
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 5: and like the courthouse or something like that. And then

760
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 5: we also did out of town pickets every weekend. So

761
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 5: I've been to a lot of them, and I would say,

762
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 5: like all of them kind of blur together after a while,

763
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 5: but some do stand out. One of them that particularly

764
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 5: stood out to me when I realized I don't believe

765
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 5: this way anymore. I don't think what we're doing and

766
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 5: what these people are telling me to do is not right.

767
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 5: Somewhere between two thousand and one and two thousand and seven,

768
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 5: there were Amish Amish schoolgirls I think there were. This

769
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 5: was just made national news all of our Fox News

770
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 5: and everything that these Amish school girls were killed either

771
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 5: killed or died. I can't remember which one, but it

772
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 5: was definitely young school age girls that were that died,

773
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 5: and there was a funeral health for them. I can't

774
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,479
Speaker 5: remember all the details, but it made national news and

775
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 5: we went to go picket it, picket everything, and we

776
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 5: tell everyone that they're going to hell, and we you know,

777
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 5: we don't have any empathy on death or reading death.

778
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 5: So we went and picked at them. And I was

779
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 5: like sitting there and like I've been to like adult

780
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 5: funerals before, like I've been to like military fems before,

781
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 5: but these are children, like innocent children. I just felt

782
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 5: like something in my heart is just saying And I

783
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 5: was like, what if the parents see me right now,

784
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 5: Like what if I'm out here and I make it

785
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 5: onto national news and I'm just holding to sign this

786
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 5: thank God for dead children? Like they like, what like

787
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 5: what am I doing? I'm just so confused, Like I

788
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 5: didn't build that sign, but they would. They would make

789
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 5: our signs and then put them in the bag, and

790
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 5: then we would pull them out. So not all of

791
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 5: us even knew what signs were in there or which

792
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 5: ones we were going to have hold when we were

793
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 5: going to show up to at a funeral. And a

794
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 5: lot of the signs are made weekly, so according to

795
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 5: the events that the pastor will make a new sign,

796
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 5: and all of a sudden, we're thanking God for this

797
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 5: disease and this person dying in this problem. So I

798
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 5: was like, what the hell I was dissociating. I was like,

799
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 5: I don't want anyone to see me. I don't want

800
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 5: to be here. I don't like this. I kept praying

801
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 5: that nobody would see me, and because a lot of

802
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 5: times the media would show up these pickets and they

803
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 5: would run stories like almost every picket they ran like

804
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 5: a local story of some kind, And so I was like, God,

805
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 5: please don't let none see me, because I can't hide.

806
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 5: I'm a hold the biggest me on side right with

807
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 5: the yeah at a funeral, Like what the hell? So

808
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 5: I'm just like sitting there praying and putting my head down,

809
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 5: and that's when I knew. I was like, that's it.

810
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 5: This is wrong. My body is telling me it's wrong.

811
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 5: I need to start questioning what we're doing and need

812
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 5: to like figure out what the hell is going on here,

813
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 5: because I would never want to face a family member

814
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 5: that's going through that right now. And I at the time,

815
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 5: I was young, I was like maybe nineteen, I'd never

816
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 5: experienced death personally, but yeah, but you.

817
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 2: Had big basic empathy.

818
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I felt like this shit is wrong and I don't.

819
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 2: Want to be here. Yeah. Oh, I can't imagine. It

820
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: makes me just curious about Fred Phelps in general. When

821
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 2: did he die? He died, and that's a good question.

822
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 5: He died after I left, so I've been out for

823
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 5: fifteen years, but a couple of the members have left

824
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 5: more recently, and they had interactions with the pastor while

825
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 5: he was passing away, and that whole drama is incredibly disgusting,

826
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 5: Like I and I have MPP for that too, because

827
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 5: even though the pastor he kind of created this monster.

828
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 5: Let's be real, he created this monster, whether it's through

829
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 5: his past pain and trauma, or he really believed this

830
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 5: prop whatever it is, he created it, and unfortunately for him,

831
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 5: he's condemned the whole condemned everyone in the world. He's

832
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 5: condemned his own family members and church members by kicking

833
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 5: them out, and towards the end of his old illd age,

834
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 5: she was getting senile. You know, I don't know if

835
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 5: you guys know, but I'm I'm a registered nurse, and

836
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 5: I know you guys believe in medical diseases and Alzheimer's

837
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 5: and dementia. It's a real thing. And the church likes

838
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 5: to likes to make things everything in like this is

839
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 5: Satanic versus Godly, and they don't really like to go

840
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 5: into medical diagnosis unless they have to. So they deemed

841
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 5: the pastor getting evil in the end of his age,

842
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 5: even though he was literally probably dementia or going crazy

843
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 5: or both like he I personally will tell you guys,

844
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 5: when I was there, I witnessed a lot of manic

845
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 5: behaviors because I'm a nurse and I really I recognize it.

846
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 5: And we all used to hold church meetings about this

847
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 5: stuff too. So when I was there, like a couple

848
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 5: summers in a row, the pastor would do this thing

849
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 5: where he would just manically get on one thing and

850
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 5: that was it. Like every day after I have to

851
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 5: get on a bike and ride sixteen miles every single

852
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 5: day of the whole summer, or every day I have

853
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 5: to you have to force me to eat this one thing.

854
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 5: And he would just get on these random kicks where

855
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 5: he had to do it every day for like so

856
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 5: many months, and he would get on a kick where

857
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 5: he's like, that's it, I'm not a pastor anymore, Like

858
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 5: I'm going to quit my job. He would he would

859
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 5: do I don't know if manic story work, but he

860
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 5: would do very bizarre personality shifts in while even while

861
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 5: he was in the church. So I witnessed some really

862
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 5: weird stuff and I was like, this is not normal.

863
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 5: But they're like, okay, we can't let anyone touch our pastor.

864
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 5: Everyone hates, can't go to a doctor whatever. Yeah. So

865
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 5: he towards the end of his life he exhibited like

866
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 5: behaviors of dementia, Alzheimer's mania, whatever, and they were isolating

867
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 5: him from everyone because they said he had the devil

868
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 5: it now. And one of the things he did apparently

869
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 5: was okay. So across the street from the Western Baptist

870
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 5: Church on that block in Tpeka, Kansas is a house

871
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 5: that they called Planting Peace and this Planting Peace House

872
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 5: was supposed to be like a public demonstration of what

873
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 5: there's a peaceful way to live instead of being so hateful.

874
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 5: And they painted the house like rainbow colors, like bright

875
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,919
Speaker 5: fun so when the cars drive by and they see

876
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 5: God hates backs, they also see like rainbows and happy.

877
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 5: So this house is well it was you know, there

878
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 5: was gay guys that lived there, but there was other

879
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 5: people that like go around doing charitable events whatever. And

880
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 5: for the longest time it is like us versus the

881
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 5: Planting Peace House. Well, one day at the at the

882
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 5: end of Pastor Phelps Life and I heard this from

883
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 5: several witnesses that I have left. He said across the street,

884
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 5: he stood out on the lawn and he said, you

885
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 5: know what, you guys are actually nicer than some of

886
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 5: the people inside here. And so he was like saying,

887
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 5: you know what, God actually does love you, or he

888
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 5: says said something to them about you know God, God

889
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 5: doesn't hate you, know the fag work, and some of

890
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 5: you are actually you're actually more kind than some of

891
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 5: the people inside my church. And they kicked him out.

892
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 5: So they instead of like assessing anything that's going on,

893
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 5: with him or talking with him. Nothing. They just kicked

894
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 5: him out of the church, kicked him out of his house,

895
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 5: put him in some random house by himself while he's dying,

896
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 5: and while he's senile, he can't even take care of himself,

897
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 5: like there's toilet paper everywhere, there's you know how older

898
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 5: people get like they need help any care. I've taken

899
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 5: care of a lot of older people in my career,

900
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 5: like I basically most of my nursing was taking care

901
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 5: of geriatric patients, and so I know, like they need

902
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 5: well and they just for to let him, let him

903
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 5: be live alone. They cut off every some single person.

904
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,439
Speaker 5: They cut off communication with him, so he couldn't see

905
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 5: his kids, his grandkids, his great grandkids, he couldn't get help,

906
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 5: he couldn't be talked to. They just shunned him and

907
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 5: banished him until he died, and they freaking uh just

908
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 5: put him in a hospice and then they didn't even

909
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 5: visit him during hospice, and they wanted to hide it

910
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 5: from the media because they thought the media was going

911
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 5: to attack him, Like wow, yeah, dude.

912
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: Dude, it's like it's one thing I know, You've talked

913
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: about this a lot It's one thing to be hateful

914
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 2: toward people outside of the group, but to be so

915
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 2: hateful even to the people who brought you into this

916
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: in the first place, is I don't know, it's like

917
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 2: heartbreaking kind of yeah, this is like.

918
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 5: What I'm talking about. And you know, when I was

919
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 5: still in so he didn't have one summer. The summer

920
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 5: he was kind of going, wha could do with all

921
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 5: these random things like I'm a pastor and I'm not

922
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 5: a pastor, I'm riding my bike, I'm eating too much food.

923
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 5: It was. It was all over the place one summer,

924
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 5: and we actually Louis Theroux's film crew was there that summer,

925
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 5: so it's the same summer you see. I think I'm

926
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 5: like eighteen or nineteen in that In the first film,

927
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 5: we were trying to hide him from the crew because

928
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 5: we were really afraid that them being that close to us,

929
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 5: they were going to expose us, like exposed our pastor

930
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 5: had manic behaviors. He's not stable, and so we were

931
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 5: praying and trying to hide it from them the all

932
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 5: the time. And I remember one day we decided to

933
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,919
Speaker 5: vote the pastor out without like the film grout knowing,

934
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 5: so we had to like do it all secretly and shit.

935
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 5: And I was just like crying because I had already

936
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 5: been going to nursing school, and I thought that there

937
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 5: was something like very psychiatrically wrong with him. And I

938
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 5: felt like we were being a little cruel. Instead of

939
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 5: getting like assessed or something, we were just like, no,

940
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 5: fuck you, you're not part of our church anymore. And

941
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 5: he was kicked out for like maybe a couple of weeks.

942
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 5: And I was just like, these people, if they'll turn

943
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 5: on their own dad, their own grandfather, their own pastor,

944
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 5: they'll turn on anyone. Like I knew that day, how cool.

945
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 5: They're cruel cruelties. It has no balance as a bound it's.

946
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, was there like someone kind of leading the charge

947
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: in that who is like basically kind of taking on

948
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: the new leadership position.

949
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 5: A lot of the men in like the generation above me,

950
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 5: so like now they would be in their fifties and

951
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 5: sixties or maybe even forties. They there was a gut

952
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 5: group of men, so it'd be like the pastor's sons.

953
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 5: He had several sons, and then there was my dad

954
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 5: and like a couple other men. So they called them

955
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 5: the elders. They're like the men, and it's interesting they

956
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 5: all kind of took turns being the pastor so doing

957
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 5: sermons and dictating rules and telling us how we're going

958
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 5: to live, where we're going to pick it and all

959
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 5: that kind of stuff. But yeah, it was a power struggle.

960
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 5: No one fully stepped in, I don't think, and then

961
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 5: they tried to pretend like they were all going to

962
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 5: share the role afterwards, and it got really weird.

963
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds like it's not a go great m hm,

964
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 2: great idea. Oh my god.

965
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 7: That reminds me of a time I ran a race

966
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 7: when I was like four, and I was like, you

967
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 7: guys were all going to cross at the same time,

968
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 7: and we're all going to be equal, and then there's

969
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 7: just a picture of me sprinting over the.

970
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 5: Line by myself, Like what a little bit. Yeah, anyway,

971
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 5: oh my god.

972
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna leave it there for now. Stay tuned

973
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 2: next week for the rest of the story. There's much more,

974
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 2: but before there's more next week. So Megan, I guess

975
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 2: one thing that you know, listening to the story and

976
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: kind of talking to her comes up for me is

977
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 2: I just still think about the fact that he went there.

978
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: Her father went to the Westboro Baptist Church originally to

979
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: make a documentary making basically like making fun of them totally,

980
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: and then ended up joining. And it just like, do

981
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: you can you think of a time in your life

982
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: when you have and I know I know what the

983
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: answer is, but can you think of a time in

984
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: your life when you have engaged in something thinking oh

985
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: my god, this is like so funny, like this is

986
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: gonna be so dumb, like and then actually got sucked in.

987
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 4: What are you thinking of specifically or do you just

988
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 4: in general?

989
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I was just thinking of how we talk

990
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: about how like dating, Like when you start to date

991
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: a narcissist, you're like, Okay, this is like clearly not

992
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: a right the right person a day, this is clearly

993
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: a narcissist, but it'll be fun, and then two weeks

994
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: later totally and.

995
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 4: Like being like and I've.

996
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: Got complete control over this. Yeah, well guys, I'm just

997
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: gonna get a story. And then five days later like,

998
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: why yes, absolutely, but have.

999
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 2: You done that with other things as full?

1000
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: You know, let me think, because the answer is definitely yes,

1001
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure.

1002
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 4: Uh.

1003
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: One time I went to like a rage scream therapy

1004
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: that I thought i'd have to call it.

1005
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 4: In and not really get into it. But it turns out.

1006
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 2: That it's quite powerful. So so you went into it

1007
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: thinking like this will be silly. Yeah.

1008
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: I thought it would be really embarrassing to have to

1009
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: try to make myself mad and scream, because when people

1010
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: do acting exercises, I'm just not capable of going. But

1011
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: this was fun and easy and turns out very accessible

1012
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: for me.

1013
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 2: So a little bit better of an experience than being

1014
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:32,959
Speaker 2: in the Westboro Baptist Church.

1015
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 4: I guess, yes, I think so.

1016
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: I mean the fact that Lauren has come out so

1017
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: wonderful and just the coolest person. It's absolutely amazing. I

1018
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: can't fathom how she did that.

1019
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: Well, if you want to know more about how she

1020
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: did it next week, that's what we'll talk about.

1021
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: Yes, come join us next week. Thank you guys so

1022
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,479
Speaker 1: much for listening this week. We can't wait to talk

1023
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: to you again next week. And as always, remember.

1024
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 4: To follow your gut, watch out for red.

1025
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: Flags, and never ever trust me.

1026
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 4: Bye bye.

1027
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: Trust Me. As produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp, and

1028
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1029
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 4: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1030
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

1031
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1032
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult pod, or on TikTok at

1033
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1034
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1035
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1036
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1037
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.