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Speaker 1: I just can't disagree more with the idea that the

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Speaker 1: Cubs need to invest a lot of money or a

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Speaker 1: lot of years and believers it's a bad idea. Welcome

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Speaker 1: into Northside Territory, Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev

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Speaker 1: Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney, where your Cubs beat

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Speaker 1: writers over at the Athletic Patrick, we are going to

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Speaker 1: do part two of a reader mail bag listener mail bag. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the listeners came in full force the other day when

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Speaker 1: we asked for questions. They have a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's a it's a common theme essentially

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Speaker 1: boils down to what's going wrong and how can this

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Speaker 1: team get better? Right? But thanks? Yeah, there there are

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Speaker 1: more specifics there, but uh, yeah, there's this team has

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Speaker 1: to get better and we need to We'll try and

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Speaker 1: answer how they're going to go about doing that. Patrick,

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Speaker 1: Why don't you kick it off with the first question here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go with a friend of the program, Michael

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Speaker 2: Sarami with our our guy at let Nation, friend of

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Speaker 2: Brett Given the collection of top one hundred prospects at

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Speaker 2: Triple A is a talent consolidating trade nearly a foregone

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Speaker 2: conclusion this offseason.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think we've talked about this a lot, right,

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Speaker 1: and I think it is. But I also think it's

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Speaker 1: an important question, and I think it can't be brought

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Speaker 1: up enough because yes, I think the answer is yes.

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Speaker 1: I thought last year it made sense to trade some talent.

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Speaker 1: They did, and I keep seeing ziere Hope highlights on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: so Cubspans probably are a little stressed out about that.

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Speaker 1: But hey, Michael Bush had a great rookie season. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you can't freak out too much. Yes, you have

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Speaker 1: to give up talent to get talent. So even talking

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Speaker 1: about trading like zire Hope wasn't a top one hundred prospect.

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Speaker 1: He may end up being one, but he wasn't one.

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Speaker 1: There are positives from that. I think you can take

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Speaker 1: the Cubs were able to draft someone in the twelfth

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Speaker 1: round or eleventh round or whatever he was drafted and

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Speaker 1: use him to get you know, a highly prospect too

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Speaker 1: impact the team, and he's turning into a good prospect,

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Speaker 1: So who knows what that means for their talent. But

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Speaker 1: to answer that question, I don't know how you don't

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Speaker 1: make a trade. Kevin Olkountra is ready for the big leagues.

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Speaker 1: Own case, he's ready for the big league. Matt Shaw's

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Speaker 1: pretty much ready for the big leagues. Moys's Biasarius is

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Speaker 1: almost ready for the big leagues. Who am I missing?

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Speaker 1: I'm missing James. James Treantos is almost ready for the

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Speaker 1: big leagues. Kate Horton will probably be ready if he

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Speaker 1: stays healthy at some point in the middle of the season. Right,

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Speaker 1: And that's just guys, that's just as a triple A. Right,

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Speaker 1: you could Camp Smith, if Cam Smith is on the

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Speaker 1: Matt Shaw progression, he's gonna be ready there, yeah, year, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he's he's not far off. Someone's gonna pop that

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Speaker 1: they've done a really good job of drafting. Who's a

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Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the pitchers that they have Connor Noland

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Speaker 1: and uh there's another one that's even better. Uh, both

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Speaker 1: of them got to triple A I believe. So, so

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Speaker 1: those are later round pitchers that that they that they've

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Speaker 1: developed at a certain point. I mean, and then you're

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Speaker 1: talking about guys that have reached the big leagues as well. Right,

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Speaker 1: you can talk about the pitching that they have at

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Speaker 1: the big leagues, like Wicks Ben Brown, Hayden wis Nesky,

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Speaker 1: uh and whoever else I'm not thinking of that that's

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Speaker 1: reached the big leagues, Javier assad like, Uh, those are

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Speaker 1: all young players, young under control, pre RB guys, And

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Speaker 1: I think at some point you have to look at

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Speaker 1: this team and say, where are all these guys going

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Speaker 1: to fit? Right? I don't always love that talking point,

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Speaker 1: right because like I hated that during the first rebuild

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Speaker 1: where it's like they have too many shortstops. No stop

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Speaker 1: saying stuff like that, Like you can never have too

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Speaker 1: many of those, like too much talent. It's how you

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Speaker 1: allocate it, right, Like how do you use this talent?

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Speaker 1: Is it? And the part of it is going to

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Speaker 1: be trades? And I think they have to figure out

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Speaker 1: who to target and who to move. You don't want

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Speaker 1: to give up on the guys that are going to

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Speaker 1: become stars, but you also need to move guys at

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Speaker 1: what may be perceived peak value. It's a really difficult

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Speaker 1: thing to do, I think, but it takes it takes

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Speaker 1: the right evaluation, internal evaluation. But I think I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's a foregone conclusion, because I don't think

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Speaker 1: this front office will just make a move to make

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Speaker 1: a move type thing. But it almost feels like that,

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Speaker 1: like they're going to be aggressive right and looking for

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Speaker 1: this and and and they'll be creative in the sense

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Speaker 1: that there may be a move that we don't fully see,

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Speaker 1: like we discussed last podcast because we didn't see the

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Speaker 1: Michael Bush trade coming, But there there is. They they're

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Speaker 1: almost certainly going to move at least one of those

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Speaker 1: names that I mentioned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're I think you're on the right

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Speaker 2: track there.

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Speaker 1: I can I can get the next question unless you

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Speaker 1: have more thoughts there, Patrick.

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Speaker 2: No, I think you just met something. It up And honestly,

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to be talking about this a

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Speaker 2: lot this winter. I think we're gonna they're gonna be oh,

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Speaker 2: James Treanto's rumor here or like three right here, and

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Speaker 2: putting together hypothetical trade scenarios. So I think I will

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Speaker 2: table that for the next round of trade rumors.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: We have a Twitter user RC seventy five Rocket wants

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Speaker 1: a crossdown trade. He's asking what trading for Garrett Crochet

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Then he's asking about the status of Ben

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Speaker 1: Brown and his help. You've got any updates there on

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Speaker 1: Ben Brown? Patrick and the possibility of Garrett Crochet coming

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Speaker 1: up north, Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Think it absolutely makes sense to trade for Garrett Crochet,

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Speaker 2: and I think there is almost a zero chance of

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Speaker 2: the White Sox trading Crochet to the north side of Chicago.

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Speaker 2: I think that is our understanding of the situation, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, Jed and Chris gets our good friends are

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Speaker 2: essentially neighbors. You know, they may have seen each other

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Speaker 2: this morning at like school drop off or whatever. Our

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Speaker 2: buddy John Greenberg had that great ji leading it to crossdown.

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Speaker 2: So there is certainly a dialogue. But within that I

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Speaker 2: think there is like no expectation that that could actually.

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Speaker 1: Happen, right, Yeah, I would put it near zero, if

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Speaker 1: not confidently saying zero percent chance of that happening. I

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Speaker 1: also I think i'd monitor that trade though. If the

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Speaker 1: White Sox get a catching prospect, is that something? Now

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Speaker 1: they have two catching prospects, because because they have Edgar Carro,

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Speaker 1: I believe who they got in a trade with the Angels,

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Speaker 1: I want to say, is a catching prospect. And if

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Speaker 1: if they get another catching prospect, which is very possible,

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Speaker 1: would they move one of those catching prospects? And then

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Speaker 1: would that be something that they could because they need

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Speaker 1: position players, right, they need different position players. So does

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Speaker 1: a catcher like does a catcher for outfielder prospect? Catching

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Speaker 1: prospect for outfielder prospect makes sense. I'm just throwing out ideas,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's it's something that you know could

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Speaker 1: make sense. But that's that's you know, that's why you

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Speaker 1: monitor what the White Socks are doing. What like who

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Speaker 1: are they getting and what kind of talent are they getting?

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Speaker 1: And could there be a creative way for the Cubs

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Speaker 1: to kind of jump in on on that, but getting Crochet,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see that. That's that's almost zero,

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Speaker 1: like I said.

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Speaker 2: And I think for me with Ben Brown, like we

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Speaker 2: got to see him throw in like a spring training game,

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Speaker 2: have him get through that. See is he going to

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Speaker 2: be like cleared to throw in real games next year?

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Speaker 2: Like this has been a weird Yeah, situation to.

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Speaker 1: Be reevaluated like right around now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would be a reevaluated Jet at

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Speaker 2: his end of season presser being re evaluated right now.

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Speaker 2: And obviously he hope for the news. He's super talented.

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Speaker 2: He's a really interesting guy. He's like a real student

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Speaker 2: of the game. But you know, I think you get

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Speaker 2: to a place with young pitchers where like the updates

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Speaker 2: just kind of get old, like un last year Harry

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Speaker 2: wood Mark Pryor, and like the team hasn't won the

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Speaker 2: World Series since nineteen oh eight, Like yeah, those young

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Speaker 2: pitchers at that moment, dated day, you know, regular updates.

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Speaker 2: I think with Brown, it's like, do your off season,

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Speaker 2: Let's see what happens in Masa. Let's see, like if

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Speaker 2: you're kind of ready to go again. I mean the

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Speaker 2: Cobs have already moved on from the idea of him

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Speaker 2: being part of their opening day rotation next year. I

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Speaker 2: think it's maybe you stretch him out in Iowa's depth,

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Speaker 2: maybe he comes out of the bullpen, maybe you focus

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Speaker 2: on him as a late inning reliever, but like until

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Speaker 2: like games start again. I wouldn't like put too much

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Speaker 2: weight on kind of any of these updates. And maybe

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Speaker 2: that's me just being cynical. Let me get you one

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Speaker 2: Saturday from Matt Sewell, what arm and what bat do

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Speaker 2: the Cubs absolutely need to add this off season? A

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Speaker 2: number one or two starter plon Soto would of course

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Speaker 2: be my dream, but once realistic, where can the Cubs

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Speaker 2: even add a bat? Catcher? And d H appear to

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Speaker 2: be the only current openings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're not wrong when you say where can

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Speaker 1: they add a bat? I think that is going to

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Speaker 1: be something like all of us kind of look at

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Speaker 1: and say, like where does this happen? How do they

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Speaker 1: how do they do this? So I think as far

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Speaker 1: as free agents go, like i'd look at you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think one soda is happening. I think that's

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Speaker 1: that's no chance, Poppy, Yeah, that one's not I guess

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Speaker 1: that one's not zero percent, but it maybe a zero

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Speaker 1: point one percent. Yeah, just because we don't want to

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Speaker 1: rule out something happening and the next month or they're

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Speaker 1: just like screw it, or like ownership gets involved somehow

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Speaker 1: and says you have so much more money than we

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Speaker 1: ever expected. I mean, looking at free agents, I think

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Speaker 1: Santander from Baltimore makes sense, right, And also we have

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Speaker 1: to consider like we don't know what Cody Bellinger is

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Speaker 1: doing yet if he opts out, that just makes it

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Speaker 1: just changes a lot of things. And Santader makes a

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Speaker 1: ton of sense, right, Like then Santander is a guy

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Speaker 1: that you just say like, yes, he makes sense. Are

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Speaker 1: you willing to give up the pick? Are you willing

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Speaker 1: to pay the price that would be more. That would

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Speaker 1: be the bigger question to me than whether he's a fit. Right.

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Speaker 1: And then and then you're talking about guys like free

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Speaker 1: agent wise, it's like, Okay, what what are you trying

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Speaker 1: to do? And who are you? Like? What other trades

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Speaker 1: are you making? What what moves are you making? Is

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Speaker 1: Nico Horner still a part of this team? Right? Is

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Speaker 1: are you committed to Michael Bush playing only first base?

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Speaker 1: Those types of things? And then and then you have

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Speaker 1: to look at like, uh, is Pete Alazzo a fit

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Speaker 1: for this team? Right? Are you just going straight slug

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Speaker 1: and going going to get like this this power hitting

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Speaker 1: established guy that you know can can deliver home runs.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if those those things make perfect sense.

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Speaker 1: And and pre agent wise, I think pre agent wise

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Speaker 1: pitching makes more sense. I don't think carbon Burns is

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Speaker 1: happening again, like maybe, but it's like there's so many

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Speaker 1: reasons why I'll Scott Boris's client number one, right, going

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Speaker 1: to be looking for like maybe not a record deal,

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Speaker 1: but something just below the Garrett Cole uh and and.

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Speaker 2: Like strasburg Ish.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's thirty, he's his strikeout rate is going down.

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Speaker 1: These are just trends that this type of front office

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Speaker 1: I don't think looks at and says, yep, that's that's

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Speaker 1: worth that type of investment. But Max Freed may be

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Speaker 1: worth the risk. Uh, someone like Nathan Evaldi, an older

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Speaker 1: guy who you can get it a shorter deal, who

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Speaker 1: is consistent and uh you know like I and has

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Speaker 1: done it in the postseason. Like those are some those

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Speaker 1: are some names off the top of my head, like

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Speaker 1: Blake's Now, I don't see it. He's going to be

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Speaker 1: getting a pretty big deal.

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Speaker 4: Uh like maybe, but yeah, I do, I don't see that.

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Speaker 4: Sean and Iya just said is in the middle of

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Speaker 4: a pretty monster season and a pretty good postseason. Like

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Speaker 4: but like the so what did David Stearns do there?

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Speaker 4: He went and got someone that was under value, made

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Speaker 4: him a starter again and and and right right, So

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Speaker 4: I think they'll be looking for that type of thing

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Speaker 4: or just like it, like I said, like if all makes.

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Speaker 1: Sense to me, where it's like he's not gonna cost

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Speaker 1: a ton because he's thirty five ish.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then and then you look at trades for bats

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Speaker 1: when I when I think of bats, I like think

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Speaker 1: of like just yeah, Is Brent Rooker gonna cost a lot? Probably? Sure,

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Speaker 1: but he looks pretty good when he played at Wrigley

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Speaker 1: the last month, right, And uh, you've got to check in.

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Speaker 1: Just just ask about guys like are the Astors gonna

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Speaker 1: trade Kyle Tucker or are they gonna pay? Like are

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Speaker 1: they gonna pay Alex Bregman and trade Kyle Tucker? They're

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Speaker 1: gonna let Bregman walk and pay Kyle Tucker? Are they

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Speaker 1: gonna pay them both? I don't know, Uh, but you

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Speaker 1: gotta ask, You gotta check. You got to ask about

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Speaker 1: Vlad and likely get rebuffed very quickly. Right, and then

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Speaker 1: there's going there's probably gonna be some name that I'm

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Speaker 1: none of us are considering right now. That's a good

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Speaker 1: bat that hits the trade market. So I think all

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Speaker 1: those things you have to consider and just be open minded.

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Speaker 1: I think a bat may may have to come by

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Speaker 1: a trade, Like I just have a feeling like it

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Speaker 1: that that would be the route to get the bat.

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Speaker 1: I just don't know, Like I probably didn't name the

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Speaker 1: bat that they're going to go trades for, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? All Right, let's what's the next question here?

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Speaker 1: This Tiger's TS nine has two questions. Jed seems to

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Speaker 1: have organizational blind spots regarding bullpen assembly, signing five war

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Speaker 1: players are giving two year contracts to players Mancini and Barnhardt,

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Speaker 1: Will counsel challenge him to take more risks in free

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Speaker 1: agency as befitting a team with a two hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty million dollar payroll. It's admiral to be able to

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Speaker 1: fix a bullpen in season. However, undeniably there is a

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Speaker 1: connection between the offensive swoon and the bullpen struggles prior

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Speaker 1: to and during the same time. I'm losing track of

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Speaker 1: what the flow of that question. What does Jed need

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Speaker 1: to do to ensure this doesn't happen again for a

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Speaker 1: third season a row. I think he's saying, like, two

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Speaker 1: seasons in a row, oftense kind of disappeared and the

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Speaker 1: bullpen struggled. It did both times that did kind of

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Speaker 1: come together with the bullpen. The offense didn't really disappear

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, in my opinion, it was pretty

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Speaker 1: solid all throughout the season in twenty twenty three, but

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Speaker 1: the bullpen certainly took a while to kind of coalesce there.

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Speaker 1: I have thoughts on bullpen. Patrick could go ahead and

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Speaker 1: share your thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'll leave some of the bullpens. I would

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Speaker 2: just say kind of picking apart this question, which had

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Speaker 2: a lot of good ideas within it, Like I don't

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Speaker 2: know if the bullpen is a blind spot for Jet

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Speaker 2: as much as he's fully aware of like kind of

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Speaker 2: how he's gone about this and doesn't really seem all

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Speaker 2: that inclined to change it. The man's any Barnhart types.

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Speaker 2: I will kind of quote you sa how to of like, look,

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Speaker 2: every team has stuff like that. You're kind of going

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Speaker 2: for role players, it has those did not work out.

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Speaker 2: I do think it'll be issering to see like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: now they have like triple A depth, like don't sign

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Speaker 2: those guys or be good at signing those guys. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, we probably shouldn't overthink the catching situation or

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Speaker 2: like place too much of an emphasis on that, Like

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Speaker 2: if you think biostereos can help and you don't want

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Speaker 2: to get stuck with kind of a bigger Barnhart deal

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Speaker 2: right where it's like a guy you know, that one

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Speaker 2: to one gold glove and you know, has this great

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Speaker 2: reputation but like does not hit and does not get

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Speaker 2: off to a good start. I think that's where some

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Speaker 2: of this stuff can spiral. I think Council has already

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Speaker 2: challenged the Cups to take more risks with that kind

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Speaker 2: of great moment in the Wrigley interview room of just

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Speaker 2: saying there's a big gap with Brewers. We should be

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Speaker 2: trying to build a ninety win teams around here. So

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Speaker 2: I would expect that to continue to happen throughout the

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Speaker 2: off season. And then yes, i'd leave it to you

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Speaker 2: to kind of explain the bullpen strategy that I don't

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Speaker 2: think is really evolving all that much, although watching like

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Speaker 2: play homes during the playoffs, I'm like, yeah, that's the

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Speaker 2: guy they should probably sign and get outside of their

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Speaker 2: whatever the IVY system tells them to do. Of like,

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Speaker 2: maybe he's not necessarily a closer in New York for

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Speaker 2: you know, from April first all the way to the

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Speaker 2: end of October, but he'd be a really nice piece

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Speaker 2: in that Wrigley bullpen for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I'd like play Holmes was on my radar before

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Speaker 1: he looked good in the playoffs, because he's exactly the

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Speaker 1: type of guy that like it's like you want him

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Speaker 1: to It's almost bad that he's having a good playoffs

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Speaker 1: for the Cubs.

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Speaker 3: Because he yeah, yeah, it's like he's going to get

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Speaker 3: too expensive now, but he's He's exactly the type of

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Speaker 3: guy you should pursue someone that like had.

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Speaker 1: A quote unquote down season, but like his peripherals are great,

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Speaker 1: his stuff is great. Like that's exactly and and Tommy

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Speaker 1: probably has some idea like just slightly tweaked something about

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Speaker 1: where he stands on the mound or something about his

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Speaker 1: delivery or his pitch usage. And he has a great

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Speaker 1: track record with that. Like it, Like Tommy Outaby has

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Speaker 1: a really good track record with that. I just can't

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Speaker 1: disagree more with the idea that the Cubs need to

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Speaker 1: invest a lot of money or a lot of years

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Speaker 1: in relievers. It's a bad idea. I'm looking at the

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Speaker 1: top bullpens by e RA this season. None of them

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Speaker 1: spend big money outside of Atlanta on their relievers. Houston

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Speaker 1: spend big money on Josh Hater. They had a lot

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Speaker 1: of issues over course of the season with their bullpen

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Speaker 1: though Cleveland awesome bullpen, don't pay anybody, Milwaukee awesome bullpen,

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Speaker 1: don't pay anybody. La Dodgers big money team, spends a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. They don't pay their relievers a ton

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Speaker 1: of money. Detroit, they traded all their like anyone that

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Speaker 1: was like, they had an awesome bullpen. Yankees don't even

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Speaker 1: pay anybody in their bullpen. Saint Louis Ryan Helsley was

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Speaker 1: locked down. They developed him Seattle. They definitely don't pay

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Speaker 1: anybody in their bullpen. Tenpa Bay Like, it's just like,

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Speaker 1: those are the top ten bullpens in baseball. They don't

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Speaker 1: pay relievers. The White Sox when they were about to compete,

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Speaker 1: they decided to pay a bunch of relievers. Their bullpens stunk, Like,

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Speaker 1: do not pay big money to relievers. If it's the

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Speaker 1: final piece, maybe go trade for them at the deadline.

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Speaker 1: Do not do it. I mean always, if you're competing,

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Speaker 1: almost always trade for them at the deadline. Right. Just

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Speaker 1: not give three, four or five year deals to relievers.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't work. It very rarely works. And they're just like,

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Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't agree with any suggestion that

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Speaker 1: that's the way you build a bullpen, because no good

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Speaker 1: team does that. Good teams don't look at all these

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Speaker 1: bullpens and then I look at the bottom of the

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Speaker 1: list and like, these guys paid relievers.

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Speaker 2: Like.

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Speaker 1: The one thing, like I will say is you know

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Speaker 1: there's there is like bullpens just aren't year to year

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Speaker 1: guaranteed to be good. Yeah, Milwaukee seems to have figured

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Speaker 1: something out in Cleveland, clearly it has. Right, So so

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Speaker 1: like you need you just need to be a good

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Speaker 1: at talent evaluation and have some your your process needs

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Speaker 1: to be really good, right. I do not think this

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Speaker 1: is about money. There are other ways that I think

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Speaker 1: the clubs should allocate their money. I do think they

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Speaker 1: should spend money. I do think they should be aggressive

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Speaker 1: in free agency. I think doing so in the bullpen

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Speaker 1: is a big mistake. I just I just think that's

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Speaker 1: not a good allocation of especially when they're not spending

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Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty million like the Dodge, like the

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Speaker 1: Yankees or Dodgers who are spending more than that, right,

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Speaker 1: or the Padres. There are any abilies, right, they're not

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Speaker 1: spending as much as those teams do not do not

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Speaker 1: do it like they need to be better at figuring

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Speaker 1: out how to get the bullpen right in April and May. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but it's not the answer to that is not spending

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Speaker 1: big money. Not my opinion. I'm happy to listen to

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Speaker 1: arguments to counter that, but I mean just looking at

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Speaker 1: the facts and the data.

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Speaker 2: Otherwise, all right, we got I'm glad you're getting this

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Speaker 2: question sided because you wrote about it extensively after the

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Speaker 2: trade Deadlians from Cubs Bucks eighty four patchers seems like

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Speaker 2: one of the easiest positions to upgrade offensively, especially from

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Speaker 2: a power standpoint. What do you think a realistic trade

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Speaker 2: looks like for cal Raley orers.

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Speaker 1: Who Okay, cal Rally is going to cost a ton.

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Speaker 1: I believe Seattle has a catching prospect. His last name

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Speaker 1: is Ford. Don't know if he's guaranteed to catch. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he's ready to be there. This is

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Speaker 1: a team that still needs offense. I mean, maybe they're

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Speaker 1: willing to move him because they have Ford and they

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Speaker 1: take bats in other areas. Okay, and then Shaye langliers

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Speaker 1: very solid catcher offensively, I don't know much about his defense.

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Speaker 1: Uh maybe average from what I understand, Uh, he's mostly

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Speaker 1: like that's going to be just like power added to

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Speaker 1: your not like not. I Like I remember looking up

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Speaker 1: at the board when when the A's were in town

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Speaker 1: and seeing his batting average, and I was like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, I thought Jay Langlers was having good season.

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Speaker 1: Then I looked at the rest of the stat line

404
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Speaker 1: and it was like, Oh, this guy's just all power and

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Speaker 1: and he's like I want to say, you had thirty

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Speaker 1: homers or it was close to it.

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Speaker 2: So he twenty nine eighty RBIs two twenty four batting average,

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Speaker 2: seven thirty nine ops. And this is kind of the

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Speaker 2: first I would say full you know, above average off

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Speaker 2: offensive season that he's had in his two plus years

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Speaker 2: of majors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, neither of these guys are close to free agents.

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Speaker 1: It would cost a lot. That would be the big

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Speaker 1: deal of the their offseason. They're big trade of the

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Speaker 1: off season. It would cost like maybe it would be

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Speaker 1: something where you build it around miguel A Maaya and

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Speaker 1: Kevin Olcontra and then more right like yeah, and pitching,

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Speaker 1: Like I think it would like something like that because

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Speaker 1: you'd need like you'd need to replace their catcher with

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Speaker 1: like a you know, a decent catcher, uh, and you

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Speaker 1: need to uh and you need to add more. And

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't be just one top prospect in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: like you're giving up a catcher and like cal Rally

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Speaker 1: I believe is up for a goal glove this year,

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Speaker 1: like he's impactful like that, Like I think he would

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Speaker 1: cost more than Shaye langleiars.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The one thing about Oakland is they their their evaluation

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Speaker 1: of talent is very different than a lot of organizations

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Speaker 1: around the game. So it may you may be able

431
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: to like swing a deal where it looks like you're like,

432
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: who are those? Like those aren't their top prospects. They

433
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 1: do that a lot, like they're they're unique with with

434
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: how they evaluate talent. So so maybe there's something there.

435
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: Either one would cost a lot that that's the bottom line.

436
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: There was a second What was the other part of that?

437
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 4: Uh oh no, yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of the.

438
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: Off season, right. I mean that question really something.

439
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: From and I look at yeah, like cal Rally. I

440
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: just don't like looking at his numbers again. I think

441
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: I may have mentioned his name last podcast A couple

442
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: podcasts ago. I was just throwing out names of teams

443
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: that may be willing to listen. The more I look

444
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: at his numbers, I just don't I don't see how

445
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: you could trade a guy that's what is he twenty

446
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: six or something like that? Like I don't know that

447
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: seems crazy to me. He's twenty seven. He'll be twenty

448
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: eight in a couple months in November. All right, Yeah,

449
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: I don't see cal rally being traded, but I could

450
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: be very wrong and it would cost a lot. It

451
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: would cost a ton. All right, here's one from I

452
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: don't know if it's Ramon or Ramon, but it's spelled

453
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: Ramon on Twitter. I don't know how to really phrase

454
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: this as a question, but what is up with the

455
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: way the Cubs diagnose injuries use the il It just

456
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: seems like they could really help themselves some if they

457
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: put guys on there and let them rest a bit

458
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 1: instead of them trying to play through injuries. You know,

459
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: I would. I think this question is is interesting in

460
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: a sense to like, do the Cubs is that any

461
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: different than any other teams? Patrick, I think the bigger

462
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: question is, Listen, they got rid of their again, some trainers,

463
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: their strength and conditioning guys. They're resetting strength and conditioning again.

464
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: So there's something. So it's I think it's for me,

465
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: and you can correct me. You can, maybe you have

466
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: a different opinion. I think it's less about how they

467
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: handle the injuries and more about like injury prevention. What

468
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: are they to get Yeah, yeah, I think that's a

469
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: big Like. I think this type of question for me

470
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: is the fans that watch the Cubs too much not

471
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: too much, sorry, that watch the Cubs and don't really

472
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: follow other teams, because I think this happens with a

473
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: lot of teams. And you also have to understand players

474
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: have a big say I'm going on the eye out

475
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: they do not like if you this could this becomes

476
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: a players association thing. If you're just putting guys on

477
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: the eye and they're like, no, I'm fine, I want

478
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: to push through this.

479
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt. I think where you're you're trying to

480
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: stay there. Like how just local baseball is you watch

481
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 2: the same team every day and it just become like

482
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: numb to it, and I think.

483
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: And listen, it's frustrating when a guy's out for four

484
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: days with the same injury and you're like, why is

485
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: any on the il? I get it, I get it.

486
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 2: No, No, I think I think you're right in that. Look,

487
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: some of those changes are already being made. I think

488
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: I asked counsel maybe in April or May of like, look,

489
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: I know injuries happen all the time, but like, is

490
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: the volume of injuries all at once of being the

491
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: season like cause you to you know that set off

492
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: any alarm bells And he acknowledged, like, look, we don't

493
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: have any answers right now, but of course you can't

494
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: like ignore this happening and not question about could we

495
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: have done anything differently here? I mean, I will say,

496
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: like these strength coaches trainers have just like the most

497
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: brutal hours like maybe in the game, I mean just

498
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: the just the sheer amount of stuff they have to

499
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: deal with, and that's what they sign up for. But

500
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 2: I think it's you know, always important to kind of

501
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 2: just keep that in mind. And I also think too,

502
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: like the more I've covered the game, the more kind

503
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: of talking with you Sahadev of like there's kind of

504
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: an art to this, and that's what it was explained

505
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: to me, you know a while ago, of like just

506
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: the amount of technology and data they have in the

507
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: advancements they've made in that area. We think of like

508
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: kind of doctors and science, like oh, there should be

509
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: this like hard and fast answer every time, like oh,

510
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: if X injury happens and you're on the injury list

511
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: for why amount of days? And really there's a lot

512
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: of kind of triangulating here, and I mean we talked

513
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: about Ben Brown earlier, like how council I mean literally

514
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: use the phrase opinions, like you know, seeking opinions on

515
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: this and like different ways to go about really unusual

516
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: neck injury. So I think ultimately what we'll see is

517
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: like what becomes of this high performance staff under council

518
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: and also as the Hoyer Hawkins regime sort of evolves.

519
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: And speaking of the Hoyer Hawkins administration, we'll wrap it

520
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: up here. Side of with handle is low at why

521
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: don't you huh? Great episode with Derek Old on the

522
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: Cardinals air quotes reset Yes, editorial note thanks to Derek.

523
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: Great information on what's going on Saint Louis. Back to

524
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: the questions, but Cubs fans can tell Cards fans that

525
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: air quotes this is not a rebuilt language. Shouldn't necessarily

526
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: be trusted. Are rebuilds fundamentally for boating in the current era.

527
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: Is it all tied to TV money?

528
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: So I think that's I mean, it's it's tied to TV.

529
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: Is it tied to TV money? Listen? So I think

530
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: it's interesting that yeah, yeah, it's interesting that the Cubs

531
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: are starting a new network right around that that, like

532
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: it was in the middle of a pandemic. They start

533
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: a new network, right and then the rebuild it goes

534
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: into full force a year and a half later, right

535
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: and and and that's and they didn't call it a rebuild.

536
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: Does that have to do with the TV money? Does

537
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: that have to do with fans filling up the ballpark?

538
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: I think with the Cubs maybe, but like they're they're

539
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: going to fill that ballpark up for the most part anyways, Right.

540
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: I think in Saint Louis, it's really hard to sell

541
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: the word rebuild. The fans aren't stupid. Fans weren't stupid

542
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: in Chicago. They didn't think this was a reset. Fans

543
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: aren't stupid in Saint Louis. Uh, they know what that

544
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: what it is. I think there's another factor that that

545
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: is really simple, but we don't consider that much. What

546
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: player on that team wants to hear that. The players

547
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: that are currently on the team, you don't want to

548
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: hear you guys are going to lose six, you know,

549
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: win sixty five games, don't. Yeah, Like like they don't

550
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: want to hear it's a rebuild. They don't want to

551
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: hear like you guys are here to lose, like who

552
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: like imagine like that's I think I don't know like

553
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: how THEO phrased it, but like he he did massage

554
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: it a little bit, but he probably called it a rebuild.

555
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: He called like I think he said it in like

556
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: flatly like that. But he also didn't, uh say like

557
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,719
Speaker 1: these guys need to lose a bunch of games and

558
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: things like that, that expectation is to lose right now.

559
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: But I think they kind of said, like we're building

560
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: towards something. We have to do this to get to

561
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,479
Speaker 1: where we want to be. And that's a lot of

562
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: what like Jed has said, Jed said before, and I'm

563
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 1: sure the Cardinals say you similar language, I think saying

564
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: rebuild it. Yes, is it we're boting? I think so

565
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: to a certain extent for certain teams. I think it

566
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: is in certain in certain markets, it probably isn't. Right

567
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: Like the players there and the fan base they're just

568
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: kind of know like this is what you get every

569
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: whatever X amount of years. But it's like until they

570
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: can prove that it's an actual reset where there aren't

571
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: like four or five six years of bad baseball or

572
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: below average baseball people are going to just say this

573
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: is a rebuild, and look, it was a rebuild what

574
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,239
Speaker 1: the Cubs are doing. I think they're out of the

575
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: rebuild phase. But I think I don't think you and

576
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: I ever denied that. Did we ever deny that? Like

577
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: I think we just kind of like said, like, jet's

578
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: not call it that, but this is what it is.

579
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: It is what it is.

580
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: Yea.

581
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: They refused to start yeah, yeah, and like how do

582
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: you do what you did did in twenty twenty one

583
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: and not say and like it's obvious, Like yes, I think.

584
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: That's a technical error, kind of a messaging mistake. I mean,

585
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: if we're going all the way back to that point,

586
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: I think they should have. I think it was a

587
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: genius that kind of articulating some of that stuff. And

588
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: I think in that moment when Jed was like fried

589
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 2: after that trade deadline on a zoom like saying like

590
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: I don't know what the definition of rebuild is, I

591
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 2: think it was a quote like that like that that

592
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 2: was unnecessary.

593
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: No, I don't disagree, Like I think fans like to

594
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: hear like a very clear vision and a very like

595
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: they just want words to like that that they associate

596
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: with what's going on, and I think rebuild is is

597
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: obviously what was happening. And I do think there's something

598
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: to what I was thing about the players, like does

599
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: Frank Schrundell, Did Frank Schundell need to hear that at

600
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 1: the time, you know, you're part of a rebuild, You're

601
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: not going to be here that long. I don't know.

602
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe they just need to suck

603
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: it up and play baseball. You're getting the play baseball.

604
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: There you go, rebuild or not, I don't know, but yeah,

605
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: it is, it is avoided. I haven't I guess I

606
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: don't hear it as much. And you know what, it

607
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: could be partly because the league doesn't want to hear it,

608
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: Like the league doesn't really love this right like that

609
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: they've probably like heard enough questions from Gordon over the

610
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: years about how he's going to stop rebuilds. Rob Vanfrid's like,

611
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 1: can you just get Gordon to stop asking me questions

612
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: about rebuilding and tanking?

613
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: Well, the third wild card now too, like you know,

614
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: the idea of building a team, you know, if you're

615
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: going back to when THEO first came here of like okay,

616
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: building a team that can win ninety plus games and

617
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: avoid us, you know, not that hard to build a

618
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: team that is in that gray area of buy or

619
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: sell the trade deadline and could win eighty four games

620
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: like the Marlins and Diamondbacks of last year.

621
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: So right, absolutely, Nope, that's I mean that the third

622
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: Wildcard changes a lot too. Yeah, Like it changes the

623
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: what teams are aiming for and that's a whole other

624
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: subject like episode Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thanks so much for

625
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: the questions everyone like. You guys make our jobs easier

626
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: by having so many questions for us and making sure

627
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 1: we have plenty to talk about.

628
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 3: Uh.

629
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: Keep I mean, We're going to keep doing this in

630
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: the off season. I'm sure we will have multiple episodes

631
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: like this over the next few months to get through

632
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: the off season and make sure we're on top of

633
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: everything you guys want to know about. Make sure in

634
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: a rate review and subscribe to north Side Territory, subscribe

635
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to the Athletic, where

636
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 1: Patrick and I will be on top of all things

637
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: Cubs this off season. Thanks so much for listening. We

638
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: appreciate all of you. Take care