Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey what's up y'all? This is uh West Love Supreme.
Speaker 2: It's kind of awesome. I've been knocking out bucket list
Speaker 2: after bucket list of all the drummers that have influenced
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 1: Time out.
Speaker 2: Let me say what's up to the team Supreme? Startists, Sugar.
Speaker 2: See where you at right now? Brouh, he's in the elevator. Wait,
Speaker 2: you're at your apartment already?
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, A little walking down?
Speaker 2: You ran you ran home? No, I briskly. I think
Speaker 2: you lived to New York City, locks away from where
Speaker 2: we work, So you're you're a speed walker then?
Speaker 1: Anyway, Uh fan tickelo, what's going on?
Speaker 3: Bro?
Speaker 4: I'm good man, I'm cool man, Uh Fran send him
Speaker 4: on up for likeya, man. I hope she gets better.
Speaker 4: She hurt her leg today, so that's right, but yeah, hope,
Speaker 4: hope you get well.
Speaker 3: Work wife.
Speaker 2: We're praying for you, Yeah we are.
Speaker 1: We're playing for you.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I'll say that our guest today is well.
Speaker 2: I feel like all of our guests on Quest Love
Speaker 2: suprem a legendary, but our guest is definitely a legendary.
Speaker 1: Trendsetter U in both music and fashion.
Speaker 4: Yes, the rid cod piece.
Speaker 1: We cannot state that enough.
Speaker 2: I'll say that, you know, once behind the driver's seat
Speaker 2: of I think at its most maybe fourteen piece Funcatorium
Speaker 2: called Cameo. And you know, I'm dying to know how
Speaker 2: per Diem was handled back in the day. But you know,
Speaker 2: haven't been of age to witness this band and their
Speaker 2: first incarnation as a fourteen piece.
Speaker 3: I got.
Speaker 2: I got to say that these brothers definitely took entertainment
Speaker 2: like to the next level. Their their live show had
Speaker 2: to be seen to be believed it. If you can,
Speaker 2: there's there's a clip of them, or there's a show
Speaker 2: he used to watch as a kid called Don Kirshner's
Speaker 2: Rock Concert. And you know, the first incarnation. For those
Speaker 2: of you that remember when Cameo just wasn't a quartet
Speaker 2: or or a you know, or a trio, that's that's
Speaker 2: one for the history books.
Speaker 1: But I would like to note.
Speaker 2: That while many of the bands that were you know,
Speaker 2: from the sixties and the seventies, they kind of found
Speaker 2: the transition to the eighties a little difficult to make.
Speaker 2: And our guest today and his band of brothers not
Speaker 2: only found kind of a way to coexist with a
Speaker 2: new art form that was really much going to eclipse
Speaker 2: Black culture in general, and of course I'm talking about
Speaker 2: hip hop.
Speaker 1: I will say that our guest today probably.
Speaker 2: Pioneered what we know is New Jack Swing basically by
Speaker 2: by embracing a hip hop attitude. You know, clearly like
Speaker 2: a year or two before Shakas I Feel for You,
Speaker 2: three years before Teddy Riley sort of figured out the
Speaker 2: magic combination net connect with Jimmy and Terry. Shout out
Speaker 2: to Jimmy and Terry. Of course, you know, we discussed
Speaker 2: what's control of the first New Jack Swing album, like
Speaker 2: the idea of hard drums and soul music. But I'll
Speaker 2: say for many you know, of those albums in the
Speaker 2: eighties like She's Strange, Single Life, and especially the Timeless
Speaker 2: and Still you know gets much play today, like songs
Speaker 2: like you know, word Up and Candy, I will say
Speaker 2: that this band has gotten to go places that allow
Speaker 2: their contemporaries like the Commodorees, the Ohio Players, the OJ's,
Speaker 2: the Barks Mandrell named them, really wasn't able to make
Speaker 2: that transition, and we're just honored. I again, thank God
Speaker 2: for DMS shot my shot, and it happened, And ladies
Speaker 2: and gentlemen, welcome to Quest of Supreme, the One and
Speaker 2: only Larry Oh Black men down there a cameo.
Speaker 3: That's pretty good question. I appreciate you having me on, man,
Speaker 3: it's a pleasure.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you, you know, making making this happen. Where
Speaker 2: are you residing right now? Where are you talking to
Speaker 2: me from.
Speaker 3: At the moment, I'm talking to you in a place
Speaker 3: called Atlanta, Georgia?
Speaker 1: Hey, so you still reside in the A?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I reside in Henderson, Nevada. Okay, Vegas,
Speaker 3: but for for other family reasons. And I've been here
Speaker 3: off and on for for a minute. And uh, as
Speaker 3: you know, New York is my home. No matter where.
Speaker 2: I am, I feel.
Speaker 3: I'm zipping a across here and there. Man, you know
Speaker 3: how we do it, you know. And I happened to
Speaker 3: really enjoy that June teen celebration. It was singing them, man,
Speaker 3: I saw you, and you know you're one with a
Speaker 3: few drummers that respect the pocket, because without that, it's nothing.
Speaker 1: You taught me well, man, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 3: Funny man that you're from Philly, because that's when I
Speaker 3: really started. I went to Edison. There I heard yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: So I guess you know a little bit more about
Speaker 3: me than I know about myself.
Speaker 2: But I'm not just I'm not just a you know.
Speaker 2: I knew Candy and I knew you were a red
Speaker 2: Jack Strap, I knew Cameo. Man, I've read interviews and
Speaker 2: not you know, for me as a professional, this is
Speaker 2: thirty years in the making. Like the fact that we
Speaker 2: haven't crossed paths yet to me is crazy, but it is.
Speaker 2: I know a lot about you because you have so
Speaker 2: much history, man, I might as well. I got immediately
Speaker 2: dive in. Can you tell me in your life? What
Speaker 2: was your first musical memory?
Speaker 3: My first musical memory, Yes, in your life. I was
Speaker 3: about five years old and my aunt was staying with
Speaker 3: us in New York. She was from Augusta, Georgia, mother's sister,
Speaker 3: and she always talked about the Apollo and she took
Speaker 3: me to my first show there. So my first musical
Speaker 3: memory was I guess being about two rolls back from
Speaker 3: the stage and observing Sam Cook. That was first musical memories.
Speaker 3: And then she tells me the story about after leaving there,
Speaker 3: I broke away from her running down the street and
Speaker 3: almost ran across Seventh Avenue and came close to being
Speaker 3: met by a greyhound bus. And she didn't think it
Speaker 3: was that funny, but she said I would laugh and
Speaker 3: let her catch up with me and then break away
Speaker 3: and run that much more. And that had nothing to
Speaker 3: do with music. But being that my first musical experience
Speaker 3: was there, I was like, and then after becoming old
Speaker 3: enough to make it there myself, I used to play
Speaker 3: He'll keep from church and catch the Maynes on Sunday
Speaker 3: four years.
Speaker 2: Okay, so do me a favor because this is like
Speaker 2: a rabbit hole show where we nerd out on information
Speaker 2: like that, could you please walk me through like a
Speaker 2: typical day where you go to the Apollo? Like how
Speaker 2: much did it cost? Like where would you sit? The
Speaker 2: acts that played? Like can you walk us through a
Speaker 2: typical hollow? What year are you talking around? Is this
Speaker 2: the sixties? Seventies?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this had to be the sixties. Okay,
Speaker 3: A typical day was you know, parents would give us
Speaker 3: these envelopes. We were members of the Union Baptist Church
Speaker 3: on one hundred and forty fifth between seventh and eighth. Okay,
Speaker 3: we would go to church. I would take my sister,
Speaker 3: she was about five years younger than me, and we'd
Speaker 3: go and we'd wait until the offering time, which we
Speaker 3: would take the envelopes and put it in plate. And
Speaker 3: after the plate went around and everything, there was something
Speaker 3: else that happened. They would play music and do something.
Speaker 3: But I would give her the signal and then we'd
Speaker 3: meet in the back of the church if she wasn't
Speaker 3: sitting with me, and then I would take her across
Speaker 3: the street to my cousin's house, leave her and take
Speaker 3: the eighth Avenue bus to one hundred and twenty fifth
Speaker 3: Street and go up to the Apollo. But anyway, they
Speaker 3: had mad names. On Sunday, there were two shows on Sunday,
Speaker 3: and I would catch the earlier show, and my seat
Speaker 3: was if you're on the stage, you look to the
Speaker 3: left and the first balcony right there, that was my seat. Okay,
Speaker 3: it didn't have my name on it, and strangely enough,
Speaker 3: I was never challenged about where I sat, and that
Speaker 3: went on for years. I've seen every lake great performer
Speaker 3: of color, I mean, everyone from Okay, Sam Cook, Jackie Wilson,
Speaker 3: Flip Wilson, of course, James Brown, I mean, and the
Speaker 3: lines went around the corner in both directions all the
Speaker 3: way to the rear of the theater. Became acquainted with
Speaker 3: acquainted with a couple of the massive ceremonies. Goodness names,
Speaker 3: I can't think of some of the names right away,
Speaker 3: but I don't think and I've seen everybody, Ray, Charles,
Speaker 3: b B. King, Benny King, Joe Text.
Speaker 2: For you, who was the act that really grabbed you
Speaker 2: the most, like when you saw them? Like for you,
Speaker 2: is it just like on board, let me go see
Speaker 2: what's at the Apollo? Or you know, was the music
Speaker 2: calling to you or was it just something to do
Speaker 2: on a Sunday?
Speaker 3: I did that. I was, I was. I was totally
Speaker 3: captivated by everything that happened. And I don't know if
Speaker 3: you have any memories of the Apollo, but they used
Speaker 3: to show a movie before the live acts. It just
Speaker 3: it just grabbed me. I mean every Sunday that's something
Speaker 3: I did. Like Clockwork wasn't discussed. Didn't feel if I
Speaker 3: had to. I just had to see whoever was there.
Speaker 3: The one show I did not see was the jewel
Speaker 3: Box review. Didn't even know what it was until some
Speaker 3: years later. You know, I never questioned that, but man
Speaker 3: I was there, and you know, turned into friendships with
Speaker 3: five stair steps with Kenny and Clarence and family, and man,
Speaker 3: I mean I remember times when the Jackson five were there,
Speaker 3: when Michael was running around back stage, up and down
Speaker 3: the stairs and Jermaine you know, you know, if you
Speaker 3: know Jermaine, you know he was the protector and you know,
Speaker 3: just to get to know those guys on a one
Speaker 3: on one basis was was. I enjoyed that in a
Speaker 3: great deal.
Speaker 2: So you would you were just allowed lee way like
Speaker 2: throughout the theater or just the.
Speaker 3: More the more people noticed me. I was allowed to
Speaker 3: enjoy what I enjoyed doing, and that was you know,
Speaker 3: it was a weird thing. I cannot even remember how
Speaker 3: certain things turned into friendships, but I did that. That
Speaker 3: happened a lot.
Speaker 2: At the Apollo. How many of these shows would occur
Speaker 2: a day? Is it just one long concurrent show from
Speaker 2: like what a typical show just be like a two
Speaker 2: hour experience and then they get rid of people and
Speaker 2: then you come back, or yes.
Speaker 3: It was like that, I believe at one time. I
Speaker 3: understand there were several shows a day, Okay, prior to
Speaker 3: my attending, but I would remember at least two shows,
Speaker 3: and they would add a show according to whatever was
Speaker 3: going on. I watched the documentary on HBO, and a
Speaker 3: lot of it. I remembered some of the acts that
Speaker 3: were there prior to my going. I heard a lot
Speaker 3: of things. And then Amateur Night I believe it was
Speaker 3: on Wednesday, and that was a guest within itself. It
Speaker 3: was apollo to me, was a finishing school, if you
Speaker 3: want to call it that. But that's where I really
Speaker 3: cut my teeth. I remember George Clinton Parliament before it
Speaker 3: became Funker Delicment. I remember the first show when it
Speaker 3: became that, And of course George was wild, as it
Speaker 3: would always to be over the years. But there was
Speaker 3: a group called Flamingos that had a song called Funky Broadway,
Speaker 3: and that was the group that, as far as drumas
Speaker 3: were concerned, that turned me out. That solo end of
Speaker 3: Funky Broadway was the solo you had to play if
Speaker 3: you were wait not dyk in the Blazers, Dyke in
Speaker 3: the Blazers, And there was was an called Dyking. The
Speaker 3: Blazers was one thing, but the Flamingos it was called
Speaker 3: the Battle of the Bands. Groups from the Manhattan's Parliament's
Speaker 3: Parliament and a lot of other acts.
Speaker 2: Can I something the incarnation of the parliaments that you saw?
Speaker 2: Have you has Funkadelic the sort of the rock version
Speaker 2: of the p funk organization. Have they ever played the Apollo?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yes? Indeed?
Speaker 2: Were they well received or were they a little bit
Speaker 2: too wild for that audience?
Speaker 3: Strangely enough, they were well received. Uh. And they were
Speaker 3: using I believe the amplifiers were called. I forgot what
Speaker 3: they called their They the dan amplifies lit up.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: It was Eddie Hazel, Yes, oh man, okay. He was
Speaker 3: louder than I've heard anything on that stage at the
Speaker 3: at the Apollo, and strangely enough, audience enjoyed it. I
Speaker 3: never understood that. And on that particular show was on
Speaker 3: the second balcony at the top right. I think it
Speaker 3: was about fourteen years old at the time, and it
Speaker 3: was it was for me, It was apropos for the time.
Speaker 3: It was well received because it was unlike anything we'd
Speaker 3: ever heard before or seen before. We were all aware
Speaker 3: of the new music coming because he still was nashing
Speaker 3: young sly you know, and his members Larry Grant and
Speaker 3: you know. It went from there to I forget what
Speaker 3: it was called.
Speaker 2: Like Graham's Graham Central six.
Speaker 3: Yes, and man, that whole transition was then it was
Speaker 3: quite enjoyable. And the Chambers brothers you know about them.
Speaker 2: So psychedelic, psychedelic black rock that played well with the
Speaker 2: Apollo audience.
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed it did. Wow.
Speaker 2: You know for me, Well, tell me, like did you
Speaker 2: come from a musical family or like how how did
Speaker 2: music enter your life as far as like this is
Speaker 2: your calling.
Speaker 3: No musical family members at all. It started with the
Speaker 3: drum and bugle car. There was a military organization called
Speaker 3: the Junior Guard and it was it was located at
Speaker 3: the three hundred and sixty ninth Armory on one hundred
Speaker 3: and forty second Street, right down the block from where
Speaker 3: the world famous Cotton Club was located. Okay, but at
Speaker 3: that time Conton Club had been torn down and they
Speaker 3: had some other was it minis minicent organization who had
Speaker 3: been known for that, you know, a fierce German bugle corps.
Speaker 3: I mean they were about the best uh in Haarlem
Speaker 3: at that time. And three hundred and ninth Armory was
Speaker 3: where this organization that was modeled after the army. If
Speaker 3: you remember, Hitler had a youth organization. Oh and I
Speaker 3: you know, didn't have a historic record about how this happened.
Speaker 3: But they had a junior called a junior Guard. And
Speaker 3: I just noticed in America a lot of the Gestapo
Speaker 3: habit habits were used by our FBI. The head of
Speaker 3: the FBI, Jaker Goohog, So I noticed, you know, and
Speaker 3: they dressed it differently and brought it in a different way.
Speaker 3: But they used a lot of what they saw work
Speaker 3: in Germany, okay, with with Hitler's business, and I figured
Speaker 3: that had something to do with this, uh, how this
Speaker 3: organization came together. They saw what worked, and they tried
Speaker 3: different things, and the government paid for this organization, and
Speaker 3: so joined it at an early age, around twelve, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, went up and ranked to uh master sergeant.
Speaker 3: But what I loved about it was the organization, the
Speaker 3: things you learned. You couldn't learn these things in anyplace else,
Speaker 3: the typical of our armed services. And then at one
Speaker 3: point they started a drum and bugle corps. All right,
Speaker 3: And at this point I'm approaching junior high school and
Speaker 3: from there and then going to junior high school, I
Speaker 3: immediately applied for the orchestra and I played drums first year,
Speaker 3: baritone baseball after the second year, third year, went back
Speaker 3: to drums, and that's where my musical career started. Dagona
Speaker 3: Blazers came out with Funky Broadway the Flamingos did. It
Speaker 3: was something that they did, they apolloed I never seemed
Speaker 3: done before. But the beat that the guy used was
Speaker 3: similar to that of Funky Broadway, okay, and they had
Speaker 3: a move that and with it, but it was it
Speaker 3: just it just totally took me someplace I hadn't been previously.
Speaker 3: As soon as they got home, I started doing that, okay.
Speaker 3: And then we started an all acoustic band in school drums, trombone, baritone,
Speaker 3: tennis sacks and there was another person who floated in
Speaker 3: and out. But we played for the assembly and it
Speaker 3: came off and people wanted to hear us play. So
Speaker 3: occasionally we would play at the one hundred and sixty
Speaker 3: audobone audubonn Ballroom where, yeah, it was across the street
Speaker 3: from a hospital I had attended with a thick file,
Speaker 3: Presbyterian Medical Center, and so I remember those times well.
Speaker 3: But from there it went to an electric band, and
Speaker 3: that band wound up being cameos. Some years later quite
Speaker 3: a few.
Speaker 2: Actually, how did you wind up in Philadelphia? Because when
Speaker 2: did you go to Edison?
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, God, I went to Edison for one year.
Speaker 3: I I was My grandmother lived in Philadelphia. The family
Speaker 3: was from Georgia, Thompson, Georgia and then Augusta, Georgia, and
Speaker 3: then they spread out from there. And mother had seven sisters.
Speaker 3: She was the oldest, and most of them moved to
Speaker 3: Philadelphia with Grandma so and she was an avid church gooer.
Speaker 3: So it's just like the net there in Philly, which
Speaker 3: was yet to be done. And I understand, and it's
Speaker 3: supposed to be phenomenal inside. I haven't seen it since.
Speaker 3: But that was the place that we would go at
Speaker 3: least four nights a week. Church was mandatory. You didn't
Speaker 3: get to avoid it. And uh so that's how the
Speaker 3: whole Philly thing happened. And we we were in an
Speaker 3: area between Norris and Diamond. Yeah, North Philly, you know
Speaker 3: r F.
Speaker 1: That's how Jill Scott says, n O r F North Philly.
Speaker 3: Okay, you were from West Yes, yes, I have a
Speaker 3: lot of relatives there too. I didn't even know what
Speaker 3: West Philly was. I knew where the Greyhound bus station.
Speaker 2: Was did you like it too much as a kid?
Speaker 2: Or was New York more like? Was New York too hip?
Speaker 2: Was Philly like a downgrade for you when you came or.
Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't call it a downgrade. I'd say that
Speaker 3: there was a large gap between culture and you know,
Speaker 3: it was just very different. You know, as I remember,
Speaker 3: there was a lot of a lot of violence going
Speaker 3: on in Philly, and the older you got, the more
Speaker 3: you understood what was going on, but never did really
Speaker 3: understand why.
Speaker 2: So how did you because because of the gang culture,
Speaker 2: especially back then, how did you avoid that? Or is
Speaker 2: it just the unspoken thing of like if gang leaders
Speaker 2: knew that you had some sort of talent or you
Speaker 2: could get out, they just left you alone.
Speaker 3: I really don't think it mattered to them. I don't
Speaker 3: know if they knew or not. But I know we
Speaker 3: lived in between to Norris Street and Diamond Street, and
Speaker 3: you would probably know more about that than I know.
Speaker 3: That's where we were and they were talking about I mean,
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe they were actually talking about drafting people
Speaker 3: into certain gangs. We were the guys that did not
Speaker 3: go for that. We avoided that. I like the plague,
Speaker 3: I see, and that's how we avoided it period. You know,
Speaker 3: they had I'm sure they had their things to do,
Speaker 3: whatever that was. But as I said, you know, my
Speaker 3: grandmother was an avid church bower, and that wasn't part
Speaker 3: of the agenda, I feel you.
Speaker 1: So here's the question I have.
Speaker 2: You know, for most of the Funk legacy, most of
Speaker 2: them get their start in the Midwest. And probably one
Speaker 2: of the key components of starting in the Midwest is
Speaker 2: that families move out there. There's industry. You know, they
Speaker 2: get factory jobs, good paying factory jobs, and they live
Speaker 2: in these houses that either have wreck rooms or dens
Speaker 2: or garages, of which you know, with that extra curriculum money,
Speaker 2: you buy instruments. But how are bands able to form
Speaker 2: and living in a cosmopolitan city in which you know,
Speaker 2: the average black family lives in an apartment or you know,
Speaker 2: Philadelphia is kind of known for its small house structure.
Speaker 2: So I know when I was, you know, coming up,
Speaker 2: I mean, my neighbors kind of liked me, so they
Speaker 2: were willing to put up with the noise. It was
Speaker 2: like it was like I was I was Calvin for McDonald's,
Speaker 2: Like I'll leave a mirror alone because he's going to
Speaker 2: be something one day. So but you know, the walls
Speaker 2: were really thin and Philly, I didn't live in a
Speaker 2: place where you had unless you lived in Queens or
Speaker 2: something like that. But like, how when you start a band,
Speaker 2: how would you where would you guys rehearse or be
Speaker 2: allowed to make noise to even see if you have it?
Speaker 3: Everything sort of developed from school, okay. And in that
Speaker 3: area there was an apartment or complex called the Bridge Apartments.
Speaker 3: It was on the other side of the Washington Bridge,
Speaker 3: and they had these rooms when you went into the
Speaker 3: building to the right or left that were just rooms
Speaker 3: with space. And as you said, people like you. They
Speaker 3: see that you're trying to do something different, and somehow
Speaker 3: they let us use these rooms and we were rehearse there.
Speaker 3: It was difficult. I grew up in the projects and
Speaker 3: everyone knew who was playing drums when it you know,
Speaker 3: reverbed off the walls on that on that block, we
Speaker 3: didn't have a lot of different musicians, but the ones
Speaker 3: that I mean, you knew of them because you could
Speaker 3: hear them. So uh yeah, I'm sure I annoyed quite
Speaker 3: a few people right in a couple of buildings. But
Speaker 3: for some reason, one ever came to the apartment to say,
Speaker 3: could you bring it down a little bit? I'm sure
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot wanted to. They felt get
Speaker 3: guilty about someone who was trying to play music. I
Speaker 3: would play with the stereo, of course, and James Brown
Speaker 3: was our pocket master, and you just had to have
Speaker 3: that that swing, you know. I learned early on if
Speaker 3: a person could not dance to what you were playing,
Speaker 3: it didn't make sense. And then when you started recording,
Speaker 3: that was a whole different, a whole different experience. I
Speaker 3: would use the click track as a guide because not
Speaker 3: listening to the beat as much as it allowed me
Speaker 3: to relax inside the pocket, that was what was happening.
Speaker 3: I was talking to D'Angelo once and he was telling
Speaker 3: me about you, you know, you playing with him and
Speaker 3: uh and I said, man, I mean he he's happening.
Speaker 3: And he went into a whole thing about how well
Speaker 3: Prince was saying about this that or the other. You know,
Speaker 3: Prince was a great guy, man. I I as aloof
Speaker 3: as he might have been. You know, we had good conversations.
Speaker 3: They were never long.
Speaker 1: I feely, Yeah, yeah, I forgot you.
Speaker 2: You brought John Blackwell to him yeah, yeah, agreed, the
Speaker 2: great great John Blackwell.
Speaker 3: A couple of people before him. The Cameo was the
Speaker 3: farm team for Prince.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, indeed.
Speaker 4: Vocal Larry was regarding your early days and Drummond you
Speaker 4: were playing on. You had a chance to work with
Speaker 4: Black Ivory, and I want to know what if you
Speaker 4: remember what songs you played on and if you remember
Speaker 4: anything about working with Leroy Burgess.
Speaker 3: He's another kind of hero of ours. Yeah. I like
Speaker 3: Lee Roight Leo. Leroy lived in the same project that
Speaker 3: I lived then there and Lero was cool. I worked
Speaker 3: with Patrick Adams mainly. Patrick was the.
Speaker 1: Late Patrick Adams.
Speaker 4: He just he just passed, Yeah, just passed.
Speaker 3: And I played you and I have an understanding. I
Speaker 3: believe that's you and you and I. Yes, that's the
Speaker 3: one yo.
Speaker 2: Wait, how did you know that, fante, because I didn't
Speaker 2: even know that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was you know, I have informants, but but no, man, Wow,
Speaker 4: he's only Okay, that's dope.
Speaker 3: That's dope. Yes, uh huh it was. Patrick was a
Speaker 3: phenomenal guy. Man. He played like six or seven instruments
Speaker 3: and we would start off on the keyboard and the drums.
Speaker 3: As I started and I played goodness, I must have
Speaker 3: recorded for four different tracks, two of which you know
Speaker 3: don't turn around and that You and I.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, whoa, that's crazy. I know you played on
Speaker 2: You and I. Damn okay, that's a classic.
Speaker 4: Your first band, East Coast with Gwyn Guthrie. Yeah, talking
Speaker 4: about how did that come together?
Speaker 3: Well, we played at the Cheetah of great Dale. She
Speaker 3: was with a group called the Matchmakers. I believe they
Speaker 3: were from East Orange and we would see each other
Speaker 3: a lot. So when I was about to form the
Speaker 3: first unit that turned in the cameo, I asked her
Speaker 3: she was interested in joining a band playing all originals
Speaker 3: and of course that was a dream back then and
Speaker 3: East Coase we played in Long Island a great deal
Speaker 3: and whenever we could get we could get work. We
Speaker 3: played in Quebec, a place called tour Vieir, which was
Speaker 3: about our Montreal. We were up there for a while.
Speaker 3: That was That was the closest thing to a residency
Speaker 3: that I can remember. But Gwyn was a very talented
Speaker 3: you know how talented she is. She was phenomenal. Man.
Speaker 3: I loved working with Gwen and her and and Uh
Speaker 3: a trombone player connected uh. And they wrote. As a
Speaker 3: matter of fact, then that Benny Ashburn, the Commodore's manager. Yes,
Speaker 3: he was living in Lenox Terrace at the time. We
Speaker 3: had a residency at Smalls Paradise. Yes, yes, I believe.
Speaker 2: I believe that Robert de Niro now owns that club
Speaker 2: and has kept it running.
Speaker 3: Oh really yeah yeah, m hm.
Speaker 2: He he hooked it up and kind of refurbished it.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I know of a patient in Philadelphia that
Speaker 3: he did the same same thing, but I believe that
Speaker 3: was more of an after our place hood spots. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: he's uh yeah, you know, we we'd story about Robert
Speaker 3: and I are staying at at that that hotel in
Speaker 3: Hollywood where where Blushi was found.
Speaker 2: Damn, I used to stay there, yeah of course yeah,
Speaker 2: uh and uh, Rick and I was staying there.
Speaker 3: Well, we were there for other reasons, but that's how
Speaker 3: I met Eddie. As a matter of fact, Rick introduced
Speaker 3: me to him, and then I, uh, I produced his
Speaker 3: second album. I believe.
Speaker 2: The one after how could it be? The one after
Speaker 2: would put Your Mouth on Me? Yeah, the one with
Speaker 2: that song on it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Tom was the was the hotel.
Speaker 3: Mama that's right. Yeah, and you know Rick had to
Speaker 3: get the room that they found John Belucian.
Speaker 2: You know what, everyone is obsessed with that Bungalow number.
Speaker 2: Everyone's obsessed with it.
Speaker 3: That's where Dan, Aaron and I met. We would always
Speaker 3: meet in the garage coming to go here Hunter at
Speaker 3: the time and who I recognizing. But that wasn't it
Speaker 3: wasn't that kind of thing. We were talking about typical things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, he honorary brother man.
Speaker 3: He's he's a real guy already.
Speaker 5: Already already, so even before the crafting of the group,
Speaker 5: like who else was just around the scene in that
Speaker 5: period in the early seventies, mid seventies, before Cameo started.
Speaker 3: There was a person that's no longer with us. He's
Speaker 3: a co writer on that You and I I have
Speaker 3: an understanding By the Moments, which was a big song.
Speaker 3: His name was Tyrone Johnson, saxophone player. He was absolutely genius.
Speaker 3: I've learned. I learned so much from those cats and
Speaker 3: here I am, you know, goodness gracious about nineteen at
Speaker 3: the time. As a matter of fact, the group I
Speaker 3: was working with was being managed by Jeans Red at
Speaker 3: the time, who was the producer for cooling the game, right.
Speaker 3: So George and I have known each other a long
Speaker 3: time and he's always been the same guy, punky George. Yes, man, Okay,
Speaker 3: he's a good brother. It'sday that could go past, or
Speaker 3: birthday that he wouldn't send, you know, a happy birthday.
Speaker 3: And they were playing at the Apollo, so as you
Speaker 3: can see, you know, being affiliated with those guys, those
Speaker 3: related ships lasted the longest. The real musicians too. It
Speaker 3: mattered to us back then, you know, about every everything
Speaker 3: we were doing. And Tarry Rone taught Ronald had the
Speaker 3: circular breathe and we just played with with cool And
Speaker 3: then how long ago was that son before? Yeah, before
Speaker 3: the pandemic? Okay, okay, yeah, at the Mohegan Son, I
Speaker 3: believe it was, yeah, and sore before I got out
Speaker 3: of the dressing room, Ronald ran in and uh a
Speaker 3: couple of the guys, I mean, we reminisced about those times.
Speaker 3: It was. It was very special. Let me say that you're.
Speaker 2: Speaking of brother byan uh there saxophone player who passed
Speaker 2: away through the pandemic. One of one of my main
Speaker 2: regrets is not interviewing him.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: He you know, he had so much knowledge and his
Speaker 2: story in his work. Yeah, he was, So can you
Speaker 2: tell me the story that well, not only that leads
Speaker 2: up to you forming cameo, but how you caught the
Speaker 2: attention of Cecil Holmes and and Neil Bougart on Castle
Speaker 2: Blink of Chocolate City.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, at the time it was New York City
Speaker 3: Players as we call we call ourselves, and we played
Speaker 3: East Coast, the Chilling Circuit behind people like the Ohio Players,
Speaker 3: George Benton and and others, you know, Rochester, Buffalo, Toronto, Michigan.
Speaker 3: Uh you know. Anyway, there was a club in New York.
Speaker 3: I had passed this place millions of times, didn't know
Speaker 3: what it was. It was called Better Days. And the
Speaker 3: guy that handled our administration at the time, this is
Speaker 3: one of his haunts. And we wound up playing there
Speaker 3: on Mondays. We would play you know, the upstate New
Speaker 3: York region and circle back to New York. We would
Speaker 3: get back I think Sunday, and we played Mondays there
Speaker 3: at that place. And there was a guy who was
Speaker 3: a songwriter and they wanted me to produce this song
Speaker 3: he wrote called find My Way. It was during the
Speaker 3: end of the disco era, so we recorded it and
Speaker 3: do one of our songs. On the other side, Neil
Speaker 3: Bogart was crazy about the song. We did a single
Speaker 3: deal with Casa Blanca. You know, that was after the
Speaker 3: Booter thing with Neil. Neil didn't even know we were black,
Speaker 3: and yeah, it was a single deal and Neil promoted
Speaker 3: this song and did as much as he could for
Speaker 3: you know, any song, but he was just crazy about it.
Speaker 3: When I guess they found out we were black. Then
Speaker 3: it became a part of Cecil Homes Chocolate City label. Anyway,
Speaker 3: so after I mean after, I mean he couldn't do
Speaker 3: any more for that song, but I mean we put
Speaker 3: our hearts into it and did the work. But I
Speaker 3: asked he sort of come listen to our original material.
Speaker 3: And then we rented si R over there in fifty
Speaker 3: second Street, and Shecill came to hear and we played
Speaker 3: Rigamortis Funk Funk, the songs we were working with at
Speaker 3: the time. So after rehearsal was over, the presentation pretty
Speaker 3: much was over. I asked him if if he thought
Speaker 3: we could do something, and he said, I think so.
Speaker 3: Then then an offer was made for an album deal,
Speaker 3: and so every album we recorded after that was gold.
Speaker 3: Riga Mortis was the first single. I happened to be
Speaker 3: working on Wall Street at this haberdasherie, and I don't
Speaker 3: know if you guys remember, but Frankie on BLS had
Speaker 3: the slots called the World Premiere, and I forget what
Speaker 3: the other ones were, but I noticed whenever it was
Speaker 3: a world premiere song debuted, it became a hit. Maybe
Speaker 3: it was because it was played twelve times a day,
Speaker 3: but anyway, I was fitting a customer and heard the
Speaker 3: World Premiere and then our song came on.
Speaker 1: I have the Frankie Crocker World Premiere dropped a word.
Speaker 2: I collect, you know as as a so called a story,
Speaker 2: and I often beg and buck people for like old
Speaker 2: school radio drops from back in the day.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, Well, when that came on, I knew
Speaker 3: that what Riga Mortis was going to be a hit.
Speaker 3: I had never heard, I mean, everybody else Barry White. Oh,
Speaker 3: I can't remember all of this, all of the world
Speaker 3: premiers at all, but man, I dare you to find
Speaker 3: one that did not become ahead whatever. For whatever reason,
Speaker 3: Rigam Martins did forty thousand copies in two weeks. And
Speaker 3: we were off.
Speaker 2: At the time when you wrote Riga Mortis was you know,
Speaker 2: a monster groove. You know the environment at the time
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy seven, you know p funk hatt finally
Speaker 2: planted its flag of course.
Speaker 1: Earth Wind and Fire. You know, they were pretty much
Speaker 1: the monuments.
Speaker 2: How where are you of what the environment was as
Speaker 2: far as funk bands were concerned, and was it a
Speaker 2: thing where it's like, Okay, what can we do to
Speaker 2: stand out from the rest or make our own mark?
Speaker 2: Because the one thing that I will say about you
Speaker 2: guys that maybe maybe and I don't count heat Wave
Speaker 2: because there even though they're from two brothers in Ohio,
Speaker 2: I've just never seen a band like literally do everything
Speaker 2: but the kitchen sink on stage as far as the presentation,
Speaker 2: the dancing, the it's it's beyond just performing your song,
Speaker 2: Like what what was it? What was in the drive
Speaker 2: that drove you guys to eat and to dance that
Speaker 2: hard and not be out of breath? Like can you
Speaker 2: just walk us through the rehard sole aspects of what
Speaker 2: you guys were trying to go for when you're doing this, of.
Speaker 3: Course you know this, that's how bad we wanted it.
Speaker 3: We wanted to do what we felt would work. I
Speaker 3: think Earthwuney Fire played played a a large had a
Speaker 3: large influence on us at the time, and and surely thereafter.
Speaker 3: Maurice was like a mentor. He would play or they
Speaker 3: would playing at the Omni Omni in Atlanta and he'd
Speaker 3: call and ask and you know, let me know where
Speaker 3: he was. And just recently Larry Dunne was telling me, Man,
Speaker 3: I remember seeing you even Maurice's room at three am
Speaker 3: in the morning. Maurice was was very, very generous and
Speaker 3: sharing things that I could not have known at that time.
Speaker 3: And the political going on and enact that large and
Speaker 3: regardless if you saw five, four or six people, you know,
Speaker 3: there were always ten to twelve month stage. And that's
Speaker 3: why I cut down on the photos on how many
Speaker 3: people took photos, because I found in marketing that it's
Speaker 3: easier for a fan to remember, you know, four or
Speaker 3: five people, but if you turn the album you'll see
Speaker 3: everyone then had something to do with you know, what
Speaker 3: we were doing. It was a collaborative affair. It was
Speaker 3: a democratic dictatorship. Okay, with the experience that I had
Speaker 3: at the time, it was just coincidental that I couldn't
Speaker 3: think of anyone else that possessed as much and everyone
Speaker 3: was open to I had an open door policy, you know,
Speaker 3: if you had something to share, something to give, something to,
Speaker 3: you know, suggest I was open because I felt that,
Speaker 3: you know, for a group, especially like Cameo, it took
Speaker 3: everyone's sincere involvement. And you know, we didn't have room
Speaker 3: for games. We had to be radio friendly. No matter
Speaker 3: what we did, they would tell us that, well, they're
Speaker 3: playing balance now. You know, you guys need to come
Speaker 3: with a ballot. We come with it up tempo because
Speaker 3: we thought that worked at New York radio and it did.
Speaker 3: You know, the choices we made was great.
Speaker 2: I got one question though, yes, because this is typical
Speaker 2: what you'll see when bands from the seventies sort of
Speaker 2: transition to the eighties. You see that they will scale down.
Speaker 2: My guess is for financial reasons. But how as bandleader,
Speaker 2: how are you able? Like why would you have fourteen
Speaker 2: people inside your organization?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: And what is pay?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What is what is per diem?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What's per diem a thing? How would you guys get
Speaker 1: to gigs?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Are you driving yourselves?
Speaker 2: Was there a tour bus back in seventy seven seventy eight?
Speaker 1: Did you have roadies.
Speaker 6: Back then you said, like one question, it's like fucking
Speaker 6: twenty questions.
Speaker 3: You might have seen fourteen, but trust me, fourteen was
Speaker 3: not you know, the decisions were made by the gentleman
Speaker 3: you're speaking to right now. I had a responsibility and
Speaker 3: if it didn't work, if someone else had better way
Speaker 3: of approaching it, I was open to that. It wasn't
Speaker 3: you know, as long as it was working, it was working.
Speaker 2: But isn't it also like managing personalities and Jedi mind trix,
Speaker 2: who's late to the bus, who has an attitude?
Speaker 1: Who's talking to this girl?
Speaker 3: We didn't have that. We were serious, We were deadly serious.
Speaker 3: It wasn't you know, we didn't have that problem. I
Speaker 3: think everyone appreciated the fact that we had built something
Speaker 3: that was hard to keep together, and we tried to
Speaker 3: avoid that nonsense as much as we could. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: then when we talk about the seventies, our thing happened
Speaker 3: closer to the end of the seventies. We did have
Speaker 3: a bus. We bought a used Greyhound bus at first,
Speaker 3: and then we bought a bus to Muhammad Ali sold
Speaker 3: to us or his representatives, and it worked for several years.
Speaker 3: I was in Jet magazine how about that? And in
Speaker 3: Life magazine to the center page, we took a photo
Speaker 3: for publicity reasons. But you know, I enjoyed working with
Speaker 3: you know, talented cats and it was fun as well
Speaker 3: because I couldn't think of anything else that I would
Speaker 3: want to do. I did attend july On for almost
Speaker 3: two years started happening, and I just didn't see any
Speaker 3: reason whatsoever that I should stay at that school. When
Speaker 3: hearing things like, you know, no one contributed anything to
Speaker 3: contemporary music worthwhile since the Beatles, I said, Okay, I
Speaker 3: got you. Well, let me let me get ready for
Speaker 3: us to put our gigs together. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So when working on like the Cardiac Dress record, which
Speaker 2: you know is the first album you produced, it were
Speaker 2: you nervous as a producer? Did you?
Speaker 1: Or was it just like a learning curve?
Speaker 3: No I produced before Cameo was the group?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 3: I worked a great deal and producing and taught self
Speaker 3: taught engineer. Okay. You know I had relationships. I played
Speaker 3: with the group Top Shelf. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: that's how I met Patrick. Okay, the group Top Shelf,
Speaker 3: I believe they had a regional head called give it Up.
Speaker 3: Just remember that or not, but I haven't, you know,
Speaker 3: I had.
Speaker 2: I knew people like Brendan and Tablations right on the
Speaker 2: tip of my tongue, yeah, right.
Speaker 3: Right, right right, cool people and running to them in
Speaker 3: Hollywood and other places. Okay, you know, I was truly
Speaker 3: aside from a student of music, and and you know,
Speaker 3: I've had some some moments, man, that were just unforgettable.
Speaker 3: And what you were always wanted was to be a
Speaker 3: part of black culture. You wanted to be remembered as
Speaker 3: being a part of that. And I think we achieved that.
Speaker 3: And it takes a while before you realize what you
Speaker 3: have done, and you know that brings about, you know,
Speaker 3: other challenges and other things to do. But you find
Speaker 3: that you understand your music in a different way. And
Speaker 3: and it wasn't about going in a curt okay, it
Speaker 3: was about you know, achieving goals and and you you're
Speaker 3: serious about it. And when I discovered the Mitchell Beachi
Speaker 3: X eight fifty, my whole world changed. Then. As far
Speaker 3: as production is concerned, that was a hell of machine.
Speaker 3: I can tell you that that thing made silence sound good.
Speaker 3: So you were a tech head, well somewhat, I won't
Speaker 3: say a total tech head, but what I did know
Speaker 3: and understand, you know, and then I was happy to
Speaker 3: be a part of old school ending and then the
Speaker 3: new technology emerging. Uh. I really enjoyed that because the
Speaker 3: things that that I know how to do with music,
Speaker 3: and believe it or not, it doesn't even matter anymore
Speaker 3: today it doesn't seem to matter as much. But I
Speaker 3: always wanted music to sound good, and if you listen
Speaker 3: to UH, it matters, really really it does matter.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's the thing. I know, I know a lot
Speaker 2: of us have our thoughts on like this person seems
Speaker 2: to just be phoned in from home or the thing.
Speaker 2: The thing is though, that there are artists out there
Speaker 2: that are doing it. I just think now that because
Speaker 2: the gate is why it left, you know, wide open.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's almost like way too much. It's saturated.
Speaker 2: And but I'm I'm a person that likes to search
Speaker 2: for you know, there there are some diamonds and the
Speaker 2: roughs out there that kind of give me hope that
Speaker 2: there's still a good future in music. It's just oftentimes,
Speaker 2: and it's like that in history, it's like sometimes the
Speaker 2: best of the crop don't necessarily.
Speaker 1: Get the massive exposure that someone that.
Speaker 2: Who is not as talented gets you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's that's always been the history of music.
Speaker 2: You know, like a group like the Meters, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: unfortunately didn't get the push that they should have gotten,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's and that was a man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Speaking of D'Angelo, I've never met a cat now.
Speaker 2: I mean again, cameos all things to all people. And
Speaker 2: you guys have had your your different phases and your metamorphosis.
Speaker 2: But I for some reason, he told me, like when
Speaker 2: he was a kid, like the cameo ballot meant more
Speaker 2: to him than even Earth Wind and Fire like people
Speaker 2: would like with with established hits whatever for him, like
Speaker 2: why have I lost you? Or even Sparkle. A matter
Speaker 2: of fact, he produced Sparkle for I forget the name
Speaker 2: of that group. Uh, it's like four Brothers from It's
Speaker 2: like right after Brown Circuit came out, D'Angelo produced a.
Speaker 1: Cover of Sparkle. Oh Wow, four oh. A group called
Speaker 1: Twice Oh no Wow. It came out in like ninety
Speaker 1: five and.
Speaker 2: Angie Stone and like the first time I heard Sparkle
Speaker 2: because the thing was like even on Brown Sugar, like
Speaker 2: those patches that he had, like you instantly knew it
Speaker 2: was him, but for him, like your ballads meant everything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna ask you about Two of Us
Speaker 4: because that's been sample. You know what I mean by
Speaker 4: I already sampled it to pop, you know? But yeah,
Speaker 4: I love that song, man.
Speaker 3: Yes, Two of Us was a nice song, wasn't. I
Speaker 3: knew that you had to have. If you didn't have
Speaker 3: a banging ballad along with the tempo banger, then you
Speaker 3: didn't have a record. We wanted to be a part
Speaker 3: of our culture. In order to achieve that, we had
Speaker 3: to achieve those those goals you had to and I
Speaker 3: had to have a first tenor a soothing baritone, okay,
Speaker 3: and then we you know, I consider myself a song stylist,
Speaker 3: you know, unlike Luther Vandross, who we know when he
Speaker 3: was born, he came out singing those that are fortunate
Speaker 3: enough others who had to play the top ten to
Speaker 3: work being a drummer or being a band trying to
Speaker 3: have consistency. It was important for you to learn those
Speaker 3: things and as a result we have, Oh and we
Speaker 3: have other things that we learned that you make your
Speaker 3: style okay, but I appreciate every Ohio. I mean, I
Speaker 3: was with Sugarfoot not long before he left us, and man,
Speaker 3: I mean, what could that guy do that I wouldn't like.
Speaker 3: I don't know. You listen to some of those records, man,
Speaker 3: and come on, you know that that shit is real? Yes,
Speaker 3: I mean, can I tell you? Can I say anything else.
Speaker 1: The great lead word Browner Sugarfoot?
Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: You know you know something now as you mentioned it.
Speaker 2: What I truly admire about your approach to music in
Speaker 2: a way that I actually think and I don't know
Speaker 2: if this blasphemous to say, because you know, for a
Speaker 2: lot of people they're the mount rushmore.
Speaker 1: But what I always loved about your.
Speaker 2: Version of songs is how you handled what I dub
Speaker 2: the Greek course in terms of like take a song
Speaker 2: like attack me with you love or back and forth
Speaker 2: where you all sing.
Speaker 1: So I forgot where I heard it.
Speaker 2: I don't know if George told me, but he's like,
Speaker 2: if you do it as a Greek course where all
Speaker 2: the voices are singing in the same unison, then that's
Speaker 2: a more inclusive thing for the audience that want to
Speaker 2: learn the lyrics and sing along with you like a
Speaker 2: shower singer or a bathroom singer. And I always wanted
Speaker 2: to know, was that by design?
Speaker 3: I call it a choral lead. Okay, that type of
Speaker 3: vocal approach. Okay, it feels good. I don't know if
Speaker 3: George's theory is correct. I wouldn't challenge it. I think
Speaker 3: there's more truth to that than not. But when I
Speaker 3: approach producing and production, I try to make it what
Speaker 3: someone would like. I tried to put myself in an
Speaker 3: audience's position and listening to this and a choral lead
Speaker 3: or really there really is an effective technique because then
Speaker 3: you can have individuals accent that approach, and you have
Speaker 3: a chance to do things with that, with that material
Speaker 3: that you wouldn't any other way. I try to imagine
Speaker 3: it as a lead, and it doesn't have the same umph, okay,
Speaker 3: and I would take that and play with that. With songs,
Speaker 3: there would be no guarantee that the way you hear
Speaker 3: a song originally would turn out to be as as
Speaker 3: you might have imagined it to be. And I think
Speaker 3: having that control, which is why we have the variety
Speaker 3: we have in cameo, it couldn't be a one dimensional issue.
Speaker 3: It could not be there's too much to do, too
Speaker 3: much you can do. So when we talk about songs
Speaker 3: and okay, what your approach to this song? How do
Speaker 3: you think this should be? You know, what about this chorus?
Speaker 3: How do you want that to happen? Okay? And who's
Speaker 3: going to make the transition? Who's going to set up
Speaker 3: the bridge? Okay? What are we going to do there? Man?
Speaker 3: To me, I love my work. I could do that
Speaker 3: and a couple of couple of lifetimes. You know a
Speaker 3: lot to do if you truly enjoy music, and I
Speaker 3: enjoy all types of music, and you can relate to this.
Speaker 3: I'm going to mention what was the name of that
Speaker 3: song Grove and Washington? That album? Come on, mister magic,
Speaker 3: mister yeah, good on. George Benson. Yes, but h man,
Speaker 3: I used to walk around with that playing that that
Speaker 3: mister magic and uh and and and uh George Benson's material.
Speaker 3: In New York I used to live, uh when when
Speaker 3: I moved from my parents' home, I lived across the
Speaker 3: street from I guess a city center on fifty fifth
Speaker 3: Street between six and seven. And man, you'd be surprised
Speaker 3: who you run into just walking down the street. Fred
Speaker 3: is there? I mean Gene Kelly. When New York New
Speaker 3: York debuted at that theater right around the corner for me,
Speaker 3: New York, New York. Yeah, and where the studio was
Speaker 3: quadrasnic and became known for a lot of things you
Speaker 3: wouldn't want a studio.
Speaker 2: Oh we know, I know about Quiet Studios, trust me.
Speaker 3: But uh and Occentral Yeah, straight up. I almost signed
Speaker 3: up my man Teddy Riley. Yeah we met there. What Yeah,
Speaker 3: but Teddy said, Larry, if I signed with your man,
Speaker 3: Jean tried to kill me. Wow.
Speaker 7: Wow, that's that's a true story. Ask all right, Yo,
Speaker 7: I gotta know what was it.
Speaker 2: For me? Like as a fan of your your your
Speaker 2: entire canon. For me, starting with Secret Omen, something different happened.
Speaker 2: And you know, a song like I Just want to Be.
Speaker 2: And I know, like every cameo fan has their cameo
Speaker 2: song that they stick to where they say, okay, like
Speaker 2: Ricka Morton is the funkiest, or She Strange is the
Speaker 2: punkiest or whatever. Can't But for me, I Just Want
Speaker 2: to Be was so damn futuristic because the thing is,
Speaker 2: I know that record came out in seventy nine, but
Speaker 2: in my mind it sounded like for me that was
Speaker 2: Prince's blueprint and this is way before we're talking about
Speaker 2: new wave or the Minneapolis sound or whatever. But just
Speaker 2: like the stacking of handclaps, the absolute gup bucket funk
Speaker 2: of it all. How how did that song even the
Speaker 2: fact that you guys you know, have miniature courses inside
Speaker 2: of even the structure of that song is so weird
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 3: I Just Want to Be was our first gold single,
Speaker 3: and I probably brought them all it was it was.
Speaker 3: It was real strange, and it was different, and that
Speaker 3: it was meant to be. It was meant to go
Speaker 3: against the grain of what everyone thought a head record was,
Speaker 3: and it was about the melodic structure being accented based
Speaker 3: on a melody that was in that you know, base range, okay,
Speaker 3: based the lower baritone range, and you made the music
Speaker 3: exactly as the melody was going. And the other things
Speaker 3: we did with that developed on its own while being
Speaker 3: created and while being recorded. I'd say having had the
Speaker 3: good fortune to work with engineers that were frustrated about
Speaker 3: how they were recording the same old shit, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, and we just had to do it differently.
Speaker 3: Engineers like Dave Oh, I don't know if you're familiar
Speaker 3: with him, York Man and I had no idea Jay
Speaker 3: played bass man. He was. We were two controlled freaks.
Speaker 3: They learned how to work and learned how to work
Speaker 3: with each other, you know, and we did and it
Speaker 3: turned out to be dynamite. I mean from single life,
Speaker 3: word Up and the and the mixes thereof it was.
Speaker 3: It was just phenomenal. Man, every oveloape to be pushed.
Speaker 3: It was as I'm certainly a guy that was not
Speaker 3: afraid to take that fade a where it was going
Speaker 3: to go. I said, you know, I don't judge music
Speaker 3: by what that needle was telling me and what that
Speaker 3: graph is telling me. When I from then, I know
Speaker 3: I've I've done, I've raised it too hot. You know.
Speaker 3: That's digit feedback there that I understand. But you know
Speaker 3: I used to get into arguments with engineers about you know,
Speaker 3: you're at plus five I could I don't plus five plus.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter to me. I just want that thing.
Speaker 3: I want I know it can sound. I want to
Speaker 3: see where I have to back off. You know, there's
Speaker 3: no way to know unless you go there.
Speaker 2: I gotta ask you, And for for a lot of
Speaker 2: fans of of of hip hop, you'll be interested to
Speaker 2: know I gotta ask you about brother Aaron Mills. Aaron
Speaker 2: Mills to hip hop fans, I guess starting with stank
Speaker 2: Odia album, basically like Aaron Mills' base became the sound
Speaker 2: of like a lot of the Outcast's funkiest songs, starting
Speaker 2: with like his bass work on Miss Jackson, uh and
Speaker 2: beyond like uh, he's all over speaker box and whatnot.
Speaker 2: But he's the base of I just want to.
Speaker 3: Be finding Aaron was. You know, we we were booked
Speaker 3: out on a date. N CCU was booked on that.
Speaker 4: Date, North Carolina Central n CCU.
Speaker 2: Yes, he's from North Carolina. Yeah, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 2: went to Central. That's mine, that's my alma mater.
Speaker 3: Right, and Professor Bird was working with some of the Cats,
Speaker 3: actually both groups, the Birds, yes, Blackbirds and n CCU.
Speaker 3: So you know, we needed a bass player who could
Speaker 3: do vocals as well and could move. So when I
Speaker 3: saw her, and I knew that that was the that
Speaker 3: I knew we had to try them out, and so
Speaker 3: we contracted them and offered them to come up to
Speaker 3: New York to to try out. We used to use
Speaker 3: the Daily Planet there on thirty whatever street that was
Speaker 3: on right and and we had some people that just
Speaker 3: didn't want it, man. They were they wanted to be
Speaker 3: in an act where it was totally different and we
Speaker 3: could make it happen. And our approach vocally, our approach
Speaker 3: about anything, was about being tired of the same old stuff,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and we wanted to do
Speaker 3: something different. That's what we did. And and we've used
Speaker 3: some musicians from London. It didn't matter where they were from, man,
Speaker 3: if they had that thing, and especially when it came
Speaker 3: to recording and ideas that were different, it was exciting.
Speaker 3: It was beyond beyond that.
Speaker 4: And also to want to mention Bernard Wright, who you
Speaker 4: know recently passed, like, what was it like working with him?
Speaker 3: Man? We were talking about that that hours ago. I
Speaker 3: still that that was hard for me too, and you know,
Speaker 3: and I didn't know what of course, as as demids
Speaker 3: that and someone told me he was hit by a car.
Speaker 2: H oh wow.
Speaker 3: But Bernard is one of those geniuses and his later
Speaker 3: teenage years, everybody he listened to was dead, I mean,
Speaker 3: and that fucking for Jamaica. Come on, we know what that.
Speaker 2: Is, yes, I mean the Masterpiece.
Speaker 3: I was just contacted recently about some tribute that they're
Speaker 3: doing to Bernard, And I'm trying to think about that
Speaker 3: thing Bernard was. You know, there are guys you you
Speaker 3: you've had relationships with to remind you of people like
Speaker 3: Jimi Hendricks and and and others. They just have their
Speaker 3: on that different on that different trajectory that like you
Speaker 3: can't think of other people mhm, thanks with the same flavor.
Speaker 3: Bernard is one of those guys. And I've worked with
Speaker 3: I don't know how many keyboard players. He his spirit
Speaker 3: was something very different. Had you ever worked with the request.
Speaker 2: I met Nard a few times at like you know,
Speaker 2: occasional jam sessions and whatnot, but it never got to
Speaker 2: work with him. Oh and really really didn't get to
Speaker 2: nerd out on him like I wanted to, you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm such a fan of like just that era
Speaker 2: of Marcus Miller and the you know, the Jamaica Boys
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. And I'm such a fan of
Speaker 2: such a fan of that era. But We're probably gonna
Speaker 2: have Marcus Miller on soon, so I'll get to learn
Speaker 2: more about him. But no, definitely that he you know,
Speaker 2: especially you could tell to me, you could tell like
Speaker 2: the true artist three of someone I'm a hits guy.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm I don't. I think I'm more of
Speaker 2: a filler guy than I'm a hits guy. Like I
Speaker 2: feel like the true definition of an artist is based
Speaker 2: on the album cuts and how.
Speaker 1: They treat that.
Speaker 2: And for him, especially like he's just his ideas were
Speaker 2: like way way, way beyond, way beyond his time period.
Speaker 2: I want to skip I want to skip ahead to
Speaker 2: the Alligated Woman album. You know, Alligated Woman is probably
Speaker 2: one of the most curious songs of your catalog, and
Speaker 2: at the time, like I think Blacks were trying to
Speaker 2: figure out, like what their position was in just a
Speaker 2: non dance music structure for that album, Like, could you
Speaker 2: just discuss what the creative angle was, especially with that
Speaker 2: very unusual song in your.
Speaker 3: Catalog, Freedom, that was the precipitated factor. After a while,
Speaker 3: you start to hear, well, you've heard it all your life,
Speaker 3: but you didn't really pay attention to it until it
Speaker 3: pertained to you or involved you. And we were at
Speaker 3: a place where, you know, yeah, we recorded a lot
Speaker 3: of things and they were very good to us, but
Speaker 3: Alligated Woman, you just wanted to Freedom to be able
Speaker 3: to do, and surprisingly enough, it surprised the heck out
Speaker 3: of me. It did quite well, it didn't. I mean,
Speaker 3: I was really surprised about that. I think at the
Speaker 3: time maybe number four or five or maybe even higher
Speaker 3: on the R and B arts at the time. But
Speaker 3: songs like Secrets of.
Speaker 1: Time and Flirt especially, Yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that was that was That was
Speaker 3: That was some funky stuff. Indeed, we didn't try to
Speaker 3: be different as much as we challenged ourselves more or less.
Speaker 2: You know, I would also like to know, I know
Speaker 2: that in eighty two, maybe it was eighty one, you
Speaker 2: made the transition from singing vocals behind the drum set
Speaker 2: and getting in front of the microphone. For you, how
Speaker 2: fearg was that to you? Or you know, were you
Speaker 2: reluctant leader?
Speaker 3: It was very foreign.
Speaker 1: How did you find a drummer that you trusted live?
Speaker 3: And we still we're still looking for that drummer We've had,
Speaker 3: we've had, we've had them at times. It was a
Speaker 3: real strange thing, you know, we didn't with the changes
Speaker 3: that went on, We didn't have that person up front
Speaker 3: that had the relationship with the audience that we wanted
Speaker 3: for it to have. And as much as I didn't
Speaker 3: want to, it was discussed a couple of times, and
Speaker 3: then and then hit things like you know you gotta
Speaker 3: you gotta come out front because you're singing these songs.
Speaker 3: Also that we're performing and you're doing this, and the
Speaker 3: third and man, have we had drummers, God knows, we
Speaker 3: have tried. We had everybody with you guy.
Speaker 1: Hey, you never know, man, I would put that on
Speaker 1: my bucket.
Speaker 3: Listen you, man, you're one of the only drummers I
Speaker 3: know that has a steady pocket. That's for real. There
Speaker 3: are a couple of other people we've heard. But it's
Speaker 3: not as easy as you might think it should be.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I haven't figured that one out yet.
Speaker 3: I can't even put it into words, but I know
Speaker 3: it's hard working. I am very close. I'm sitting back
Speaker 3: down on those drums, I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 4: I was curious to know about your work with Miles Davis.
Speaker 4: What was it like working with him kind of man
Speaker 4: on that album.
Speaker 2: And specifically, why was he just randomly in these videos
Speaker 2: without any context whatsoever.
Speaker 3: I met Miles when I was eight years old. At first,
Speaker 3: Miles used to train with boxers to stay in shape,
Speaker 3: and and my dad was in the boxing game, and
Speaker 3: so it turns out Miles had an attorney that when
Speaker 3: he passed the bar, he represented me for us in
Speaker 3: a situation where the manager we had and some years
Speaker 3: later lo and be old Peter's representing Miles Yoko, Oh no,
Speaker 3: several different people. So and knowing that I had a
Speaker 3: song that I had somebody played the you know, the
Speaker 3: demo of that, I wanted Miles to hear. And he
Speaker 3: called back that afternoon about two hours later, and uh,
Speaker 3: I like this to this and he was writing as
Speaker 3: an autobiography at the time with the Gentleman.
Speaker 2: With Quincy Troop.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, yes, And man, we had a good
Speaker 3: time with Miles. You know, everything he had to say
Speaker 3: meant something, And uh, man, do I missed that guy, Miles.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed Miles a lot, very useful energy, which I
Speaker 3: guess amounts for the musicians here playing with him. His
Speaker 3: nephew played for us for a while too, but being
Speaker 3: in the videos, we just invited him down. And uh,
Speaker 3: you know, Miles was always colorful. He was the heck
Speaker 3: of a guy, and he seemed to enjoy the female
Speaker 3: company of the ladies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just without any context, you would look and then
Speaker 2: it would be like Miles Davis for like two seconds,
Speaker 2: and without the internet and without like a VCR to rewind,
Speaker 2: it was like, wait that now that was a Miles Davis.
Speaker 2: What would he be doing that? Like when they first
Speaker 2: came out, I never knew that was I was like,
Speaker 2: that's a guy that looks like Miles Davis or you know,
Speaker 2: maybe Charlie Singleton had a cousin or something that was
Speaker 2: Solder or something like that. Like that's what I was thinking. Oh,
Speaker 2: I know what I want to know. At any point,
Speaker 2: did any of you guys sort of get make the
Speaker 2: correlation that the young lady that's saying nasty girl was
Speaker 2: actually on the front cover of Alligator Woman.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we of course we knew that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you instantly that that was that was Vanity
Speaker 2: on the cover of Wow. Okay indeed, because I know
Speaker 2: she was doing before Vanity six got established, but.
Speaker 3: Right, but she was. She was just perfect for what
Speaker 3: I say, we uh the photographer and and uh Peanut Gallery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, say no more, I got you.
Speaker 3: But uh, I get it. But it worked. And I
Speaker 3: think Prince must have called her about four or five
Speaker 3: times while we were working shooting that day.
Speaker 2: That's right. They weren't dating by then. Okay, I see.
Speaker 3: Who this was on the phone, uh, until it became
Speaker 3: and someone said something about I think it was a
Speaker 3: photographer at the time, and I forget his name, but
Speaker 3: he was. He was colorful too, and I thought the
Speaker 3: idea was great and it worked.
Speaker 2: Keep talking about establishing your own label, because I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: slightly before she's strange. Maybe it was alligated woman or style.
Speaker 2: You started Atlanta Artists label.
Speaker 3: It was a logo label more than a separate label
Speaker 3: within itself. It didn't have its own distribution structure. That
Speaker 3: was stuff. I didn't want to get into it that
Speaker 3: particular time, and it didn't make a difference to me
Speaker 3: at that moment, but we did well for it. It
Speaker 3: gave us positive identity in Atlanta, and we were fortunate
Speaker 3: enough to have some people working with us that helped
Speaker 3: a great deal, and we were able to, you know,
Speaker 3: get some different things done. It was all real, quite positive. Okay,
Speaker 3: we don't want to start talking about Regulabel in the
Speaker 3: games thereof that's that's a whole nothing. Maybe it's just
Speaker 3: started another series.
Speaker 4: I feel hey, man, let's talk about it.
Speaker 8: Some times I feel you this is also the period
Speaker 8: where And this is sort of across the board where
Speaker 8: you know, the word.
Speaker 1: Crossover kind of becomes part.
Speaker 2: Of the black music vernacular as far as well, I
Speaker 2: know that was a four letter word, but you know,
Speaker 2: not only that, but just transitioning. You're seeing a lot
Speaker 2: of lead singers leave their groups. In eighty two. You're
Speaker 2: seeing a lot of groups that were once fourteen, thirteen,
Speaker 2: twelve members whittled down to trios and whatnot. How hard
Speaker 2: was it for you to come to the decision that, Yo, man,
Speaker 2: we just gotta we got to pair it down a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think anybody in our act
Speaker 3: saw it that way, yet, I have to be totally honest.
Speaker 3: I never asked. I know that Jean Paul Goutier had
Speaker 3: a summer line that had just been delivered to Bluingdale's,
Speaker 3: and our wardrobe guy made us aware of it, and
Speaker 3: he checked the sizes and found that it would work
Speaker 3: for that concept. And as I said earlier, for identity purposes,
Speaker 3: I think it was easier for our fans to focus
Speaker 3: on a few people instead of a lot of people,
Speaker 3: and I think that worked for us. I turned around,
Speaker 3: and every other band is doing the same thing.
Speaker 2: So what made you keep Tony and Nathan and Charlie
Speaker 2: like kind of as the core members.
Speaker 3: I don't think Charles he was there on that particular
Speaker 3: on the on the word.
Speaker 1: Up cover, but well not word up, but he was
Speaker 1: at least.
Speaker 3: Yeah when we paid, when we paired it down starting
Speaker 3: with strange Alligator Woman and in style and those things. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we we tried to keep it a little closer uh
Speaker 3: to where we you know, we just wanted the identity
Speaker 3: to work. And at that time you think you're making
Speaker 3: a good decision about what works for the act. And
Speaker 3: it did at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it worked.
Speaker 3: This is a strange business. You know, when something is working,
Speaker 3: it's working, and and I think people appreciate that until
Speaker 3: it gets into selfish reasons, you know, and that just happens.
Speaker 3: It's something that happens, you know, as all things. You know,
Speaker 3: there were challenges before that we had to get over
Speaker 3: when it was the East East Coast and and other
Speaker 3: uh con configurations. So I you know, what happened happened.
Speaker 3: You just had to work with it. And you know,
Speaker 3: as easy as it was for me to be so
Speaker 3: busy knowing what you have to do next, that I
Speaker 3: didn't worry so much about what was going on at
Speaker 3: the time, just being prepared for something else was you know,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe that was an escape mechanism for me. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I only say that because I think about
Speaker 3: that now, But at the time I wasn't concerned about that.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: We just wanted to be good at what we did,
Speaker 3: offer something fresh. The high definition. Advent of high definition
Speaker 3: was the greatest thing that could have ever happened, not
Speaker 3: only with us but every everyone else because it was
Speaker 3: said that technique would be and everyone's home and it was,
Speaker 3: which was which was fun. But when we did the
Speaker 3: Candy video, that was that was phenomenal. Man, that that
Speaker 3: that piece of work there, that that's historic.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you about that video? Okay, So for
Speaker 2: our listeners out there, I mentioned a few times, but
Speaker 2: like you know, for fans of black music, you really
Speaker 2: didn't have much to go on when finding out the
Speaker 2: information of your favorite acts, like you either stuck in
Speaker 2: the sort of tweendom of right or magazine or the
Speaker 2: whole or opposite of it, which was like either epiting
Speaker 2: or jet So for a lot of like music heads
Speaker 2: like myself, there was a sort of a radio show
Speaker 2: called Lee Bailey's Radioscope Rascope.
Speaker 1: And you already know where I'm going with this. I
Speaker 1: got it.
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. Everyone's laughing at this, and I
Speaker 2: know you know where I'm going with this now, mind you.
Speaker 1: I was fifteen at the time.
Speaker 2: Now, Radioscope on weekdays was only like a three minute
Speaker 2: kind of like a quickie news update on Serio, you know,
Speaker 2: at least a serious journalism if you want to call
Speaker 2: it that of your favorite groups.
Speaker 1: But I'd never.
Speaker 2: Heard a more controversial hot take like Radioscope was almost
Speaker 2: like Black Twitter before Black Twitter thirty thirty.
Speaker 1: And you know, for me.
Speaker 2: As a fourteen fifteen year older watching you know of
Speaker 2: our burden and like the word of video and the
Speaker 2: candy video and all that stuff and even like attack
Speaker 2: me with your love with Debbie and what's his name from?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: Whether were in general hospital or whatever? Were you? How
Speaker 2: upset were you when fans were complaining about, you know,
Speaker 2: sort of accusing you guys of not focusing like you
Speaker 2: you would have a wide array of women in your videos.
Speaker 2: It was black women, it was white women, it was
Speaker 2: brown women, Asian women, Like, were you aware of how
Speaker 2: like discussed or discussed your videos were at the time,
Speaker 2: like there was just a thing where it's like only
Speaker 2: black women are allowed to be in cameo videos, and
Speaker 2: why there's all these why all these white women and
Speaker 2: Asian women, Like, yes, we now it's like nothing, but
Speaker 2: it was so pioneering back then and controversial. Were you
Speaker 2: even aware of Lee Bailey's radioscope and how like fans
Speaker 2: were sort of just like.
Speaker 1: Hot behind the collar over this.
Speaker 3: More than I more than I wanted to be.
Speaker 1: But that's why you laugh when I said Lee Bailey, he.
Speaker 3: Didn't get any complaints from the fans. We complain, no, no, listen,
Speaker 3: there might have been others that had things to say,
Speaker 3: but Lee Bailey. I liked Lee Bailey. He was a good,
Speaker 3: good buddy. He found something that gave him clicks, yeah,
Speaker 3: the attention, and he went on with that. And it
Speaker 3: was okay up to a point. But as I explained it,
Speaker 3: you know, I was above board, fully transparent about the process.
Speaker 3: These were the same six women. You know, the process
Speaker 3: of high definition at the time, it's like air ring
Speaker 3: each time. So whereas you thought that was you know,
Speaker 3: different people, it was the same people dressed different. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if we had.
Speaker 2: It looked like there was forty two billion women. This
Speaker 2: I was like pre CGI days of you guys in Times.
Speaker 3: Square exactly in that process. But you know, there were
Speaker 3: three and and and when I say three, I'm saying
Speaker 3: three as it appeared to be. Uh. I would say
Speaker 3: Caucasian for lack of a better description. But they were
Speaker 3: not all like all Anglo Saxon Caucasian, you know, No,
Speaker 3: it was.
Speaker 2: It was a vast array of women. But that was
Speaker 2: definitely the first time that we just saw, at least
Speaker 2: in black videos variety, breaking out of the mold. I mean,
Speaker 2: you guys broke speaking of breaking out the mold. Oh god,
Speaker 2: I'm about to forget. Can you you please give me
Speaker 2: the genesis of what we effectually referred to as the
Speaker 2: cameo haircut.
Speaker 4: The cameo haircut and it red the red cor and
Speaker 4: John Paul was was is that John Paul the design
Speaker 4: that Do.
Speaker 2: You still have that cup?
Speaker 3: Uh? Yes, yes, so let me wash that show life.
Speaker 3: But imagine when it was to me the day of
Speaker 3: the shooting, word up and and uh, I was you
Speaker 3: guy had this box he just put up on the counter.
Speaker 3: I was in line with everyone else to get whatever
Speaker 3: I was supposed to wear, and I took it in
Speaker 3: a dressure and I said, man, look over what Toys
Speaker 3: wants me to wear? Man? And then they were like,
Speaker 3: oh man, that's great, black room balls out, let's go
Speaker 3: for it. It wasn't day. It wasn't the day for
Speaker 3: me to say I'm not wearing that thing, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. It wasn't the day we were shooting.
Speaker 3: It was our first day of shooting. We had we
Speaker 3: had work to do. But there was a time when
Speaker 3: all of our outfits had cups on them. Call them
Speaker 3: cod pieces is what we call them. And Bernard Johnson,
Speaker 3: God bless him. You know, he was the wardrobe guy
Speaker 3: in New York. I mean at the time, you know,
Speaker 3: you always dreamed and said, man, when we make it,
Speaker 3: we're definitely going to go to Bernard. And that's what happened.
Speaker 3: Occasionally aware it if I feel like it, If I don't,
Speaker 3: I won't and and and it's okay. You know the haircut.
Speaker 3: I had a friend girl, uh named Tracy Johns. She
Speaker 3: did She's got to have it with Spike Lee the
Speaker 3: very first hit.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Tracy Camilla John's.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, that's right. That was a very close friend
Speaker 3: of mine, and she told me about this, uh these
Speaker 3: barbers that immigrated here from Italy on south of Houston,
Speaker 3: and I told her to take me down and she did.
Speaker 3: And and you know, I created this, this thing that
Speaker 3: genesis I guess would have been Grace Jones and a
Speaker 3: couple of other things I saw. I made it work.
Speaker 3: And next thing I know, people from Africa is calling
Speaker 3: and telling me that they have the haircut and others.
Speaker 3: And I've heard people actually lie about it, you know,
Speaker 3: some some people that you've always considered close. But I
Speaker 3: figured if it was that important to to to say that,
Speaker 3: be it far from me to dispute that. I wouldn't
Speaker 3: want attention that way. You know what I mean, Guys.
Speaker 6: This is weird because I am actually the guy who
Speaker 6: invented that haircut. So say what you want, but I'm
Speaker 6: claiming it.
Speaker 2: That's how long was it before? Like you got a
Speaker 2: rocket with confidence? But I mean that was definitely a
Speaker 2: statement haircut that that was an instant street hit. But
Speaker 2: I mean at the time, did you feel like, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, what's you know? This is the anti Afro
Speaker 2: Did you did you have any idea that you were
Speaker 2: actually establishing like the black barbera good shot.
Speaker 3: You know what? It was cute, it was I had
Speaker 3: I was tired of dreads, and I thought it would
Speaker 3: have been less labor intensive, and actually it was more. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's more yes, you know for you, you know you're
Speaker 3: you're twisting and twisting every time. You know you're twisting
Speaker 3: without even realizing that's what you're doing. And so I
Speaker 3: wanted to create a haircut that was less labor intensive,
Speaker 3: and I haven't found it yet. Regardless of what style
Speaker 3: it is, it's going to require attention and and that's
Speaker 3: just the way it is. You're not going to escape
Speaker 3: the black hair Curt.
Speaker 2: What I want to ask you is, for a lot
Speaker 2: of your contemporaries, embracing hip hop was a hard transition
Speaker 2: to do, and it would have been very easy for
Speaker 2: you to judge it or look down on it or
Speaker 2: be condescending. But from the gate, not only did you
Speaker 2: embrace hip hop, but you did in a way that
Speaker 2: didn't seem corny or condescending or like trying to jump
Speaker 2: on a bandwagon, like you know you rhyming on She's strange?
Speaker 1: Is any rhyming on word up?
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I mean word up is a new
Speaker 2: Jack swing song. So can you just talk about like
Speaker 2: your feelings of hip hop and how you know you
Speaker 2: embraced it without like because most it's very unusual for
Speaker 2: people to just be open to something and and and
Speaker 2: not run away from it, like a lot of your
Speaker 2: contemporaries were.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I don't know what it was for them,
Speaker 3: but I don't think we consciously made it an issue
Speaker 3: when it came to music. What I enjoyed about the
Speaker 3: movement called hip hop was the simplicity of the drum
Speaker 3: beat and the simplicity of what was going on with
Speaker 3: the bass for the most part. And I felt that
Speaker 3: was that was a signature that could not be denied
Speaker 3: or could not get old, because that beat was what
Speaker 3: made it what it was, and whatever happened within that
Speaker 3: structure was always interesting. You know, Funk is what it is.
Speaker 3: You can have a funky ballad as much as you
Speaker 3: can have a funky, up tempo thing, but there's no mistake.
Speaker 3: You're gonna bob your head if it's happening, you're gonna
Speaker 3: be in it. And once you're in it, you're in it.
Speaker 3: You know what it is from that point forward.
Speaker 2: So it didn't make you feel weird when like a
Speaker 2: guy like Blue Sala says, you know, Bobby Brown's leaving
Speaker 2: new edition. You know he produces record because like, you know,
Speaker 2: the songs you were doing on that record, although not
Speaker 2: it's definitely pretty new jack swing.
Speaker 1: Like one of them joints.
Speaker 2: He does a beatbox breakdown and a wrap break which
Speaker 2: again was very unusual for nineteen eighty six. Right, it
Speaker 2: was ahead of its time. So right, like, even working
Speaker 2: with Bobby Brown, what was that experience?
Speaker 3: Like, it was cool? You know, Bobby and I we
Speaker 3: talked about that not long ago. You know, Bobby was
Speaker 3: going through a lot of changes. And that's how when
Speaker 3: I introduced Teddy to m c A over there where
Speaker 3: Jered Busby was, you know, and Jered Busby and little Silas,
Speaker 3: I believe, uh huh and uh. And I felt that
Speaker 3: Teddy had some things that would work well for for
Speaker 3: for Bobby and the rest is history.
Speaker 2: So you made that connection.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And then that studio, I'll put that studio on the map.
Speaker 3: When I first walked out there, they had one room
Speaker 3: on the eighth floor and the Harrison sixteen.
Speaker 1: Track board, the one in Atlanta, No, the one in
Speaker 1: New York.
Speaker 3: Oh quai, Yeah, Loune Salas, who on the place. They
Speaker 3: heard that Larry was going to this place alone if
Speaker 3: you didn't get out SSL board in that room. And
Speaker 3: the next thing, next thing, I know, two weeks later
Speaker 3: there's an SSL board in there and uh lou Lou
Speaker 3: wanted to keep us there. It was it was crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Bobbie Brown project, Ryan Carrey, yeah, all that stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we we it was a home and the next thing,
Speaker 3: I know, there's another They added another four floors of
Speaker 3: other studios and that's when Biggie was up there, and
Speaker 3: you know the thing happened at that time. You don't
Speaker 3: have to go through everything.
Speaker 2: But now we've talked about this story a lot. Yes,
Speaker 2: oh we know, we know.
Speaker 3: That was the most famous corner. I know.
Speaker 2: Even when I go there now because there's there's a
Speaker 2: drum dealer on like the it's fifth four where I
Speaker 2: get a lot of my vintage drums from. Oh really Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's there's a cat up there that has like a
Speaker 2: drum shop up there, So I still go there occasionally.
Speaker 2: There is one question I do want to know, you know,
Speaker 2: to have such a crowded space or at least in
Speaker 2: the time that you were there.
Speaker 1: I mean, now, now you know, my band is kind
Speaker 1: of like.
Speaker 2: One of the one of the last black bands with
Speaker 2: a major record deal Steel, But just in general, what
Speaker 2: bands did you respect? Like when they were on stage
Speaker 2: you're like, oh man, they're kicking ass, or like yeah, earth.
Speaker 3: Wing a fire okay, confunction I love even today?
Speaker 2: Or who didn't you like I'm gonna ask them full
Speaker 2: force questions.
Speaker 3: Either We're gonna tell you my pet peeve. You know
Speaker 3: some of these guys, you know, they would run out
Speaker 3: and under shaky circumstances, go someplace and get the own
Speaker 3: the name of the group they've been working with for
Speaker 3: a long time, and all of a sudden they own
Speaker 3: this name. And because they own this name now I
Speaker 3: tell them that in the Diamond by a couple of cars.
Speaker 3: But how about the relationship you had and and what
Speaker 3: you all did together to make hit music? That should
Speaker 3: be the focus. Okay, not this I own the name now, Larry,
Speaker 3: So what okay? Uh? That doesn't seem to be doing
Speaker 3: a lot for you. And what made it work was
Speaker 3: the apparatus, chemistry, the setup that you had before. You
Speaker 3: should be running to preserve that and working along that
Speaker 3: context because that's what worked for you.
Speaker 4: M Oh yeah, I want to ask about before we
Speaker 4: go our senior hall doing shunky.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that was real. That was fun. That
Speaker 3: was the first video I shot that uh that had
Speaker 3: you know, did you sound? Actually real sound and dialogue
Speaker 3: and you know, was in Japan and he called and
Speaker 3: asked if I would do his chunky A and it
Speaker 3: was it was strange. The guy that shot Michael Jackson's thriller,
Speaker 3: was it, John Landers? Yes, but he had an A
Speaker 3: D two. Anyway, A lot of the crew came from
Speaker 3: that body of work. They were not necessarily the most
Speaker 3: cooperative guys in the world. You know, there were things
Speaker 3: being done that, you know, like somebody would have a
Speaker 3: real thick cord coming across a walkway and you trip
Speaker 3: over it and then you look back and it's not
Speaker 3: there anymore. Then that's for you to know that that
Speaker 3: was done for you U. So I avoided the stuff
Speaker 3: like that. But it was a great shoot and I
Speaker 3: enjoyed every moment of it. The whole chunky A thing
Speaker 3: was ISOs thing I loved because he was just a
Speaker 3: funny guy man, that's and he was a sincere guy,
Speaker 3: you know, he used to invite us on the set.
Speaker 3: He'd have a nice drum set in his office and
Speaker 3: he had, Uh, it's got Chucky in his band, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, played with us also, Man, I don't know how
Speaker 3: many drummers we've been through.
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. I want to know what the firing process
Speaker 2: was like. Uh, that wasn't too hard. You know, well,
Speaker 2: you don't mince words. I guess no.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you're trying to get something done
Speaker 3: and and it's and it's fairly simple. It's it's the
Speaker 3: frustrating part for me is when a guy can't hear
Speaker 3: that he's losing in the pocket, or he can't hear
Speaker 3: it himself, that is frustrating for me. But I have
Speaker 3: done everything. I think I've done everything I could do
Speaker 3: to help. But if they don't have it, they don't
Speaker 3: have it. Some guys just don't have it. And rocks
Speaker 3: rolling down a hill won't make people dance at all.
Speaker 3: They said. The simplicity of some of the hip hop
Speaker 3: feels with that's all you're doing, then that works. That
Speaker 3: wouldn't make people want to dance because they're familiar with
Speaker 3: that already. And and it's in time. If it's not
Speaker 3: in time, is it music?
Speaker 2: I don't know, it might not be. I don't know.
Speaker 1: You might have to James Brown and find him.
Speaker 3: But yeah, and I don't know how James did that,
Speaker 3: but they sure had it going on.
Speaker 2: God knows absolutely. I think I have a I think
Speaker 2: I have an answer for finding the perfect drummer. Okay,
Speaker 2: this is what and this is what Peter Gabriel used
Speaker 2: to do. He used to have a drummer, or for
Speaker 2: studio drummers, at least he would have a drummer come in,
Speaker 2: sit behind the drum kit and just tell him to
Speaker 2: play a song for like five minutes, and then one
Speaker 2: by one he would take a piece away, and to
Speaker 2: the point where he even took the high hats away.
Speaker 2: Like Peter Gabriel hated the sound of high hats and
Speaker 2: it forced when you're stuck with just the bare minimums,
Speaker 2: then you're forced to just concentrate on the pocket because
Speaker 2: you have nothing else to deal with. Which I know,
Speaker 2: you know the Knights that I saw you guys, and
Speaker 2: I saw you guys doing the John Blackwell era. I
Speaker 2: almost feel like because cats always ask like, yo, man,
Speaker 2: how can I get cats to stay in the pocket.
Speaker 2: My first answer is you gotta take all their drums away,
Speaker 2: the snare, high hat kick start there, the basic minimum,
Speaker 2: and that's I feel like that's the answer. Cats gotta
Speaker 2: get back and uh, you gotta it forces them to
Speaker 2: stay in the pocket. You gotta take the toys away.
Speaker 2: They do good rewarding with a high hat, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Hat? Yeah, how about that? But man, well, how did
Speaker 3: you develop your pocket? When? When did that happen? When
Speaker 3: did you notice that you had a pocket? Had to
Speaker 3: have that pocket to play.
Speaker 2: The thing is is that you know, growing up right,
Speaker 2: you know, hip hop and I were of sort of
Speaker 2: the synergy together where not only am I studying drum
Speaker 2: breaks that hip hop ers is sampling, but like I
Speaker 2: grew up with those records and my father's record collection.
Speaker 2: You know, you had like three four thousand records in
Speaker 2: his collection. So I would notice that when cats wanted
Speaker 2: to freestyle at my high school, if I were recreate
Speaker 2: those same breaks that they heard in rap songs, that's
Speaker 2: when they would start to dance. And you know, and
Speaker 2: to me, it wasn't about drum feels. It's finding the
Speaker 2: perfect four bars. And people don't trust the process of
Speaker 2: less is.
Speaker 1: More, and you know, I felt like my thing was
Speaker 1: the less.
Speaker 3: You do, the better it is. Yeah, and you know, but.
Speaker 1: It also it also comes with time.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. Like a lot of times, especially
Speaker 2: with black bands, when I was asking you earlier about
Speaker 2: where did you practice? Oftentimes like church is the only
Speaker 2: environment that they get to play, and sometimes you got
Speaker 2: to do everything but the kitchen sink to keep your
Speaker 2: position because there's fourteen drummers in church waiting to replace you.
Speaker 2: And more than that, I just I grew up with
Speaker 2: a band leader father that would look back at you
Speaker 2: and find you fifty.
Speaker 1: Dollars if you messed up.
Speaker 2: So nah, I kept the pocket, Brother black Man, thank
Speaker 2: you so much, Thank you man, I appreciate this.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: On behalf of Layah please get well and Sugar Steve.
Speaker 6: That that was a great interview. Thank you mister Blackman
Speaker 6: for your time and all that information that was amazing,
Speaker 6: And thank you for mentioning all the engineers also that
Speaker 6: you worked with the time.
Speaker 2: Yo, thank you very much. On behalf of Fontigelow and
Speaker 2: Layah and Unpaid Bill and Sugar Steve and myself quest
Speaker 2: Love and the great Immortal Larry Blackman and all the
Speaker 2: members of Cameo and their forty two thousand drummers.
Speaker 1: This is a quest love sir.
Speaker 2: All right, We'll see you in the next around.
Speaker 3: Thank you all right, Bye bye.
Speaker 2: West.
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is a production iHeart Radio.
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