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Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey what's up y'all? This is uh West Love Supreme.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of awesome. I've been knocking out bucket list

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Speaker 2: after bucket list of all the drummers that have influenced

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Speaker 2: my life.

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Speaker 1: Time out.

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Speaker 2: Let me say what's up to the team Supreme? Startists, Sugar.

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Speaker 2: See where you at right now? Brouh, he's in the elevator. Wait,

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Speaker 2: you're at your apartment already?

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Speaker 3: Yes, sir, A little walking down?

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Speaker 2: You ran you ran home? No, I briskly. I think

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Speaker 2: you lived to New York City, locks away from where

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Speaker 2: we work, So you're you're a speed walker then?

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Speaker 1: Anyway, Uh fan tickelo, what's going on?

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Speaker 3: Bro?

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Speaker 4: I'm good man, I'm cool man, Uh Fran send him

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Speaker 4: on up for likeya, man. I hope she gets better.

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Speaker 4: She hurt her leg today, so that's right, but yeah, hope,

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Speaker 4: hope you get well.

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Speaker 3: Work wife.

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Speaker 2: We're praying for you, Yeah we are.

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Speaker 1: We're playing for you.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I'll say that our guest today is well.

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Speaker 2: I feel like all of our guests on Quest Love

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Speaker 2: suprem a legendary, but our guest is definitely a legendary.

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Speaker 1: Trendsetter U in both music and fashion.

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Speaker 4: Yes, the rid cod piece.

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Speaker 1: We cannot state that enough.

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Speaker 2: I'll say that, you know, once behind the driver's seat

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Speaker 2: of I think at its most maybe fourteen piece Funcatorium

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Speaker 2: called Cameo. And you know, I'm dying to know how

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Speaker 2: per Diem was handled back in the day. But you know,

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Speaker 2: haven't been of age to witness this band and their

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Speaker 2: first incarnation as a fourteen piece.

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Speaker 3: I got.

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Speaker 2: I got to say that these brothers definitely took entertainment

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Speaker 2: like to the next level. Their their live show had

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Speaker 2: to be seen to be believed it. If you can,

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Speaker 2: there's there's a clip of them, or there's a show

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Speaker 2: he used to watch as a kid called Don Kirshner's

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Speaker 2: Rock Concert. And you know, the first incarnation. For those

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Speaker 2: of you that remember when Cameo just wasn't a quartet

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Speaker 2: or or a you know, or a trio, that's that's

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Speaker 2: one for the history books.

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Speaker 1: But I would like to note.

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Speaker 2: That while many of the bands that were you know,

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Speaker 2: from the sixties and the seventies, they kind of found

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Speaker 2: the transition to the eighties a little difficult to make.

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Speaker 2: And our guest today and his band of brothers not

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Speaker 2: only found kind of a way to coexist with a

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Speaker 2: new art form that was really much going to eclipse

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Speaker 2: Black culture in general, and of course I'm talking about

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Speaker 2: hip hop.

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Speaker 1: I will say that our guest today probably.

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Speaker 2: Pioneered what we know is New Jack Swing basically by

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Speaker 2: by embracing a hip hop attitude. You know, clearly like

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Speaker 2: a year or two before Shakas I Feel for You,

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Speaker 2: three years before Teddy Riley sort of figured out the

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Speaker 2: magic combination net connect with Jimmy and Terry. Shout out

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Speaker 2: to Jimmy and Terry. Of course, you know, we discussed

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Speaker 2: what's control of the first New Jack Swing album, like

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Speaker 2: the idea of hard drums and soul music. But I'll

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Speaker 2: say for many you know, of those albums in the

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Speaker 2: eighties like She's Strange, Single Life, and especially the Timeless

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Speaker 2: and Still you know gets much play today, like songs

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Speaker 2: like you know, word Up and Candy, I will say

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Speaker 2: that this band has gotten to go places that allow

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Speaker 2: their contemporaries like the Commodorees, the Ohio Players, the OJ's,

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Speaker 2: the Barks Mandrell named them, really wasn't able to make

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Speaker 2: that transition, and we're just honored. I again, thank God

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Speaker 2: for DMS shot my shot, and it happened, And ladies

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Speaker 2: and gentlemen, welcome to Quest of Supreme, the One and

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Speaker 2: only Larry Oh Black men down there a cameo.

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Speaker 3: That's pretty good question. I appreciate you having me on, man,

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Speaker 3: it's a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you, you know, making making this happen. Where

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Speaker 2: are you residing right now? Where are you talking to

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Speaker 2: me from.

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Speaker 3: At the moment, I'm talking to you in a place

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Speaker 3: called Atlanta, Georgia?

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Speaker 1: Hey, so you still reside in the A?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, I reside in Henderson, Nevada. Okay, Vegas,

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Speaker 3: but for for other family reasons. And I've been here

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Speaker 3: off and on for for a minute. And uh, as

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Speaker 3: you know, New York is my home. No matter where.

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Speaker 2: I am, I feel.

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Speaker 3: I'm zipping a across here and there. Man, you know

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Speaker 3: how we do it, you know. And I happened to

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Speaker 3: really enjoy that June teen celebration. It was singing them, man,

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Speaker 3: I saw you, and you know you're one with a

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Speaker 3: few drummers that respect the pocket, because without that, it's nothing.

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Speaker 1: You taught me well, man, Yeah, that's.

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Speaker 3: Funny man that you're from Philly, because that's when I

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Speaker 3: really started. I went to Edison. There I heard yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: So I guess you know a little bit more about

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Speaker 3: me than I know about myself.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not just I'm not just a you know.

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Speaker 2: I knew Candy and I knew you were a red

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Speaker 2: Jack Strap, I knew Cameo. Man, I've read interviews and

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Speaker 2: not you know, for me as a professional, this is

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Speaker 2: thirty years in the making. Like the fact that we

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Speaker 2: haven't crossed paths yet to me is crazy, but it is.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot about you because you have so

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Speaker 2: much history, man, I might as well. I got immediately

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Speaker 2: dive in. Can you tell me in your life? What

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Speaker 2: was your first musical memory?

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Speaker 3: My first musical memory, Yes, in your life. I was

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Speaker 3: about five years old and my aunt was staying with

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Speaker 3: us in New York. She was from Augusta, Georgia, mother's sister,

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Speaker 3: and she always talked about the Apollo and she took

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Speaker 3: me to my first show there. So my first musical

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Speaker 3: memory was I guess being about two rolls back from

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Speaker 3: the stage and observing Sam Cook. That was first musical memories.

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Speaker 3: And then she tells me the story about after leaving there,

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Speaker 3: I broke away from her running down the street and

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Speaker 3: almost ran across Seventh Avenue and came close to being

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Speaker 3: met by a greyhound bus. And she didn't think it

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Speaker 3: was that funny, but she said I would laugh and

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Speaker 3: let her catch up with me and then break away

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Speaker 3: and run that much more. And that had nothing to

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Speaker 3: do with music. But being that my first musical experience

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Speaker 3: was there, I was like, and then after becoming old

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Speaker 3: enough to make it there myself, I used to play

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Speaker 3: He'll keep from church and catch the Maynes on Sunday

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Speaker 3: four years.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so do me a favor because this is like

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Speaker 2: a rabbit hole show where we nerd out on information

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Speaker 2: like that, could you please walk me through like a

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Speaker 2: typical day where you go to the Apollo? Like how

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Speaker 2: much did it cost? Like where would you sit? The

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Speaker 2: acts that played? Like can you walk us through a

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Speaker 2: typical hollow? What year are you talking around? Is this

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Speaker 2: the sixties? Seventies?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, this had to be the sixties. Okay,

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Speaker 3: A typical day was you know, parents would give us

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Speaker 3: these envelopes. We were members of the Union Baptist Church

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Speaker 3: on one hundred and forty fifth between seventh and eighth. Okay,

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Speaker 3: we would go to church. I would take my sister,

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Speaker 3: she was about five years younger than me, and we'd

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Speaker 3: go and we'd wait until the offering time, which we

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Speaker 3: would take the envelopes and put it in plate. And

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Speaker 3: after the plate went around and everything, there was something

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Speaker 3: else that happened. They would play music and do something.

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Speaker 3: But I would give her the signal and then we'd

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Speaker 3: meet in the back of the church if she wasn't

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Speaker 3: sitting with me, and then I would take her across

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Speaker 3: the street to my cousin's house, leave her and take

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Speaker 3: the eighth Avenue bus to one hundred and twenty fifth

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Speaker 3: Street and go up to the Apollo. But anyway, they

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Speaker 3: had mad names. On Sunday, there were two shows on Sunday,

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Speaker 3: and I would catch the earlier show, and my seat

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Speaker 3: was if you're on the stage, you look to the

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Speaker 3: left and the first balcony right there, that was my seat. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it didn't have my name on it, and strangely enough,

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Speaker 3: I was never challenged about where I sat, and that

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Speaker 3: went on for years. I've seen every lake great performer

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Speaker 3: of color, I mean, everyone from Okay, Sam Cook, Jackie Wilson,

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Speaker 3: Flip Wilson, of course, James Brown, I mean, and the

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Speaker 3: lines went around the corner in both directions all the

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Speaker 3: way to the rear of the theater. Became acquainted with

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Speaker 3: acquainted with a couple of the massive ceremonies. Goodness names,

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Speaker 3: I can't think of some of the names right away,

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Speaker 3: but I don't think and I've seen everybody, Ray, Charles,

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Speaker 3: b B. King, Benny King, Joe Text.

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Speaker 2: For you, who was the act that really grabbed you

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Speaker 2: the most, like when you saw them? Like for you,

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Speaker 2: is it just like on board, let me go see

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Speaker 2: what's at the Apollo? Or you know, was the music

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Speaker 2: calling to you or was it just something to do

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Speaker 2: on a Sunday?

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Speaker 3: I did that. I was, I was. I was totally

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Speaker 3: captivated by everything that happened. And I don't know if

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Speaker 3: you have any memories of the Apollo, but they used

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Speaker 3: to show a movie before the live acts. It just

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Speaker 3: it just grabbed me. I mean every Sunday that's something

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Speaker 3: I did. Like Clockwork wasn't discussed. Didn't feel if I

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Speaker 3: had to. I just had to see whoever was there.

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Speaker 3: The one show I did not see was the jewel

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Speaker 3: Box review. Didn't even know what it was until some

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Speaker 3: years later. You know, I never questioned that, but man

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Speaker 3: I was there, and you know, turned into friendships with

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Speaker 3: five stair steps with Kenny and Clarence and family, and man,

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Speaker 3: I mean I remember times when the Jackson five were there,

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Speaker 3: when Michael was running around back stage, up and down

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Speaker 3: the stairs and Jermaine you know, you know, if you

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Speaker 3: know Jermaine, you know he was the protector and you know,

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Speaker 3: just to get to know those guys on a one

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Speaker 3: on one basis was was. I enjoyed that in a

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Speaker 3: great deal.

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Speaker 2: So you would you were just allowed lee way like

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Speaker 2: throughout the theater or just the.

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Speaker 3: More the more people noticed me. I was allowed to

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Speaker 3: enjoy what I enjoyed doing, and that was you know,

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Speaker 3: it was a weird thing. I cannot even remember how

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Speaker 3: certain things turned into friendships, but I did that. That

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Speaker 3: happened a lot.

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Speaker 2: At the Apollo. How many of these shows would occur

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Speaker 2: a day? Is it just one long concurrent show from

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Speaker 2: like what a typical show just be like a two

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Speaker 2: hour experience and then they get rid of people and

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Speaker 2: then you come back, or yes.

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Speaker 3: It was like that, I believe at one time. I

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Speaker 3: understand there were several shows a day, Okay, prior to

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Speaker 3: my attending, but I would remember at least two shows,

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Speaker 3: and they would add a show according to whatever was

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Speaker 3: going on. I watched the documentary on HBO, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of it. I remembered some of the acts that

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Speaker 3: were there prior to my going. I heard a lot

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Speaker 3: of things. And then Amateur Night I believe it was

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Speaker 3: on Wednesday, and that was a guest within itself. It

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Speaker 3: was apollo to me, was a finishing school, if you

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Speaker 3: want to call it that. But that's where I really

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Speaker 3: cut my teeth. I remember George Clinton Parliament before it

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Speaker 3: became Funker Delicment. I remember the first show when it

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Speaker 3: became that, And of course George was wild, as it

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Speaker 3: would always to be over the years. But there was

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Speaker 3: a group called Flamingos that had a song called Funky Broadway,

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Speaker 3: and that was the group that, as far as drumas

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Speaker 3: were concerned, that turned me out. That solo end of

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Speaker 3: Funky Broadway was the solo you had to play if

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Speaker 3: you were wait not dyk in the Blazers, Dyke in

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Speaker 3: the Blazers, And there was was an called Dyking. The

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Speaker 3: Blazers was one thing, but the Flamingos it was called

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Speaker 3: the Battle of the Bands. Groups from the Manhattan's Parliament's

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Speaker 3: Parliament and a lot of other acts.

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Speaker 2: Can I something the incarnation of the parliaments that you saw?

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Speaker 2: Have you has Funkadelic the sort of the rock version

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Speaker 2: of the p funk organization. Have they ever played the Apollo?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yes? Indeed?

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Speaker 2: Were they well received or were they a little bit

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Speaker 2: too wild for that audience?

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Speaker 3: Strangely enough, they were well received. Uh. And they were

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Speaker 3: using I believe the amplifiers were called. I forgot what

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Speaker 3: they called their They the dan amplifies lit up.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: It was Eddie Hazel, Yes, oh man, okay. He was

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Speaker 3: louder than I've heard anything on that stage at the

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Speaker 3: at the Apollo, and strangely enough, audience enjoyed it. I

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Speaker 3: never understood that. And on that particular show was on

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Speaker 3: the second balcony at the top right. I think it

243
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Speaker 3: was about fourteen years old at the time, and it

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Speaker 3: was it was for me, It was apropos for the time.

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Speaker 3: It was well received because it was unlike anything we'd

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Speaker 3: ever heard before or seen before. We were all aware

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Speaker 3: of the new music coming because he still was nashing

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Speaker 3: young sly you know, and his members Larry Grant and

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Speaker 3: you know. It went from there to I forget what

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Speaker 3: it was called.

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Speaker 2: Like Graham's Graham Central six.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and man, that whole transition was then it was

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Speaker 3: quite enjoyable. And the Chambers brothers you know about them.

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Speaker 2: So psychedelic, psychedelic black rock that played well with the

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Speaker 2: Apollo audience.

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Speaker 3: Yes, indeed it did. Wow.

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Speaker 2: You know for me, Well, tell me, like did you

258
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Speaker 2: come from a musical family or like how how did

259
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Speaker 2: music enter your life as far as like this is

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Speaker 2: your calling.

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Speaker 3: No musical family members at all. It started with the

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Speaker 3: drum and bugle car. There was a military organization called

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Speaker 3: the Junior Guard and it was it was located at

264
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Speaker 3: the three hundred and sixty ninth Armory on one hundred

265
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Speaker 3: and forty second Street, right down the block from where

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Speaker 3: the world famous Cotton Club was located. Okay, but at

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Speaker 3: that time Conton Club had been torn down and they

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Speaker 3: had some other was it minis minicent organization who had

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Speaker 3: been known for that, you know, a fierce German bugle corps.

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Speaker 3: I mean they were about the best uh in Haarlem

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Speaker 3: at that time. And three hundred and ninth Armory was

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Speaker 3: where this organization that was modeled after the army. If

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Speaker 3: you remember, Hitler had a youth organization. Oh and I

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Speaker 3: you know, didn't have a historic record about how this happened.

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Speaker 3: But they had a junior called a junior Guard. And

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Speaker 3: I just noticed in America a lot of the Gestapo

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Speaker 3: habit habits were used by our FBI. The head of

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Speaker 3: the FBI, Jaker Goohog, So I noticed, you know, and

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Speaker 3: they dressed it differently and brought it in a different way.

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Speaker 3: But they used a lot of what they saw work

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Speaker 3: in Germany, okay, with with Hitler's business, and I figured

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Speaker 3: that had something to do with this, uh, how this

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Speaker 3: organization came together. They saw what worked, and they tried

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Speaker 3: different things, and the government paid for this organization, and

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Speaker 3: so joined it at an early age, around twelve, and uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, went up and ranked to uh master sergeant.

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Speaker 3: But what I loved about it was the organization, the

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Speaker 3: things you learned. You couldn't learn these things in anyplace else,

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Speaker 3: the typical of our armed services. And then at one

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Speaker 3: point they started a drum and bugle corps. All right,

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Speaker 3: And at this point I'm approaching junior high school and

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Speaker 3: from there and then going to junior high school, I

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Speaker 3: immediately applied for the orchestra and I played drums first year,

294
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Speaker 3: baritone baseball after the second year, third year, went back

295
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Speaker 3: to drums, and that's where my musical career started. Dagona

296
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Speaker 3: Blazers came out with Funky Broadway the Flamingos did. It

297
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Speaker 3: was something that they did, they apolloed I never seemed

298
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Speaker 3: done before. But the beat that the guy used was

299
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Speaker 3: similar to that of Funky Broadway, okay, and they had

300
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Speaker 3: a move that and with it, but it was it

301
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Speaker 3: just it just totally took me someplace I hadn't been previously.

302
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Speaker 3: As soon as they got home, I started doing that, okay.

303
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Speaker 3: And then we started an all acoustic band in school drums, trombone, baritone,

304
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Speaker 3: tennis sacks and there was another person who floated in

305
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Speaker 3: and out. But we played for the assembly and it

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00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 3: came off and people wanted to hear us play. So

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Speaker 3: occasionally we would play at the one hundred and sixty

308
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Speaker 3: audobone audubonn Ballroom where, yeah, it was across the street

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Speaker 3: from a hospital I had attended with a thick file,

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Speaker 3: Presbyterian Medical Center, and so I remember those times well.

311
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Speaker 3: But from there it went to an electric band, and

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Speaker 3: that band wound up being cameos. Some years later quite

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Speaker 3: a few.

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Speaker 2: Actually, how did you wind up in Philadelphia? Because when

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Speaker 2: did you go to Edison?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Man, God, I went to Edison for one year.

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Speaker 3: I I was My grandmother lived in Philadelphia. The family

318
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Speaker 3: was from Georgia, Thompson, Georgia and then Augusta, Georgia, and

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Speaker 3: then they spread out from there. And mother had seven sisters.

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Speaker 3: She was the oldest, and most of them moved to

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Speaker 3: Philadelphia with Grandma so and she was an avid church gooer.

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Speaker 3: So it's just like the net there in Philly, which

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Speaker 3: was yet to be done. And I understand, and it's

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Speaker 3: supposed to be phenomenal inside. I haven't seen it since.

325
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Speaker 3: But that was the place that we would go at

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Speaker 3: least four nights a week. Church was mandatory. You didn't

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Speaker 3: get to avoid it. And uh so that's how the

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Speaker 3: whole Philly thing happened. And we we were in an

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Speaker 3: area between Norris and Diamond. Yeah, North Philly, you know

330
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Speaker 3: r F.

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Speaker 1: That's how Jill Scott says, n O r F North Philly.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you were from West Yes, yes, I have a

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Speaker 3: lot of relatives there too. I didn't even know what

334
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Speaker 3: West Philly was. I knew where the Greyhound bus station.

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Speaker 2: Was did you like it too much as a kid?

336
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Speaker 2: Or was New York more like? Was New York too hip?

337
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Speaker 2: Was Philly like a downgrade for you when you came or.

338
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Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't call it a downgrade. I'd say that

339
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Speaker 3: there was a large gap between culture and you know,

340
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Speaker 3: it was just very different. You know, as I remember,

341
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 3: there was a lot of a lot of violence going

342
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Speaker 3: on in Philly, and the older you got, the more

343
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 3: you understood what was going on, but never did really

344
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Speaker 3: understand why.

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Speaker 2: So how did you because because of the gang culture,

346
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Speaker 2: especially back then, how did you avoid that? Or is

347
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Speaker 2: it just the unspoken thing of like if gang leaders

348
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 2: knew that you had some sort of talent or you

349
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 2: could get out, they just left you alone.

350
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Speaker 3: I really don't think it mattered to them. I don't

351
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 3: know if they knew or not. But I know we

352
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 3: lived in between to Norris Street and Diamond Street, and

353
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 3: you would probably know more about that than I know.

354
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Speaker 3: That's where we were and they were talking about I mean,

355
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,719
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe they were actually talking about drafting people

356
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Speaker 3: into certain gangs. We were the guys that did not

357
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 3: go for that. We avoided that. I like the plague,

358
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Speaker 3: I see, and that's how we avoided it period. You know,

359
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 3: they had I'm sure they had their things to do,

360
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: whatever that was. But as I said, you know, my

361
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: grandmother was an avid church bower, and that wasn't part

362
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Speaker 3: of the agenda, I feel you.

363
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Speaker 1: So here's the question I have.

364
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Speaker 2: You know, for most of the Funk legacy, most of

365
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: them get their start in the Midwest. And probably one

366
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Speaker 2: of the key components of starting in the Midwest is

367
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: that families move out there. There's industry. You know, they

368
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: get factory jobs, good paying factory jobs, and they live

369
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: in these houses that either have wreck rooms or dens

370
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: or garages, of which you know, with that extra curriculum money,

371
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: you buy instruments. But how are bands able to form

372
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: and living in a cosmopolitan city in which you know,

373
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 2: the average black family lives in an apartment or you know,

374
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: Philadelphia is kind of known for its small house structure.

375
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Speaker 2: So I know when I was, you know, coming up,

376
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 2: I mean, my neighbors kind of liked me, so they

377
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: were willing to put up with the noise. It was

378
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: like it was like I was I was Calvin for McDonald's,

379
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 2: Like I'll leave a mirror alone because he's going to

380
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: be something one day. So but you know, the walls

381
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 2: were really thin and Philly, I didn't live in a

382
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: place where you had unless you lived in Queens or

383
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,479
Speaker 2: something like that. But like, how when you start a band,

384
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: how would you where would you guys rehearse or be

385
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 2: allowed to make noise to even see if you have it?

386
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: Everything sort of developed from school, okay. And in that

387
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 3: area there was an apartment or complex called the Bridge Apartments.

388
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 3: It was on the other side of the Washington Bridge,

389
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 3: and they had these rooms when you went into the

390
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 3: building to the right or left that were just rooms

391
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: with space. And as you said, people like you. They

392
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 3: see that you're trying to do something different, and somehow

393
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: they let us use these rooms and we were rehearse there.

394
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: It was difficult. I grew up in the projects and

395
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 3: everyone knew who was playing drums when it you know,

396
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: reverbed off the walls on that on that block, we

397
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 3: didn't have a lot of different musicians, but the ones

398
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: that I mean, you knew of them because you could

399
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 3: hear them. So uh yeah, I'm sure I annoyed quite

400
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 3: a few people right in a couple of buildings. But

401
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: for some reason, one ever came to the apartment to say,

402
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: could you bring it down a little bit? I'm sure

403
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot wanted to. They felt get

404
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 3: guilty about someone who was trying to play music. I

405
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 3: would play with the stereo, of course, and James Brown

406
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 3: was our pocket master, and you just had to have

407
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 3: that that swing, you know. I learned early on if

408
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 3: a person could not dance to what you were playing,

409
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 3: it didn't make sense. And then when you started recording,

410
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 3: that was a whole different, a whole different experience. I

411
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: would use the click track as a guide because not

412
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 3: listening to the beat as much as it allowed me

413
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 3: to relax inside the pocket, that was what was happening.

414
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 3: I was talking to D'Angelo once and he was telling

415
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: me about you, you know, you playing with him and

416
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: uh and I said, man, I mean he he's happening.

417
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 3: And he went into a whole thing about how well

418
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: Prince was saying about this that or the other. You know,

419
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: Prince was a great guy, man. I I as aloof

420
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 3: as he might have been. You know, we had good conversations.

421
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: They were never long.

422
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: I feely, Yeah, yeah, I forgot you.

423
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: You brought John Blackwell to him yeah, yeah, agreed, the

424
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: great great John Blackwell.

425
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: A couple of people before him. The Cameo was the

426
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 3: farm team for Prince.

427
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, indeed.

428
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 4: Vocal Larry was regarding your early days and Drummond you

429
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 4: were playing on. You had a chance to work with

430
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 4: Black Ivory, and I want to know what if you

431
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: remember what songs you played on and if you remember

432
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 4: anything about working with Leroy Burgess.

433
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 3: He's another kind of hero of ours. Yeah. I like

434
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 3: Lee Roight Leo. Leroy lived in the same project that

435
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 3: I lived then there and Lero was cool. I worked

436
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: with Patrick Adams mainly. Patrick was the.

437
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: Late Patrick Adams.

438
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 4: He just he just passed, Yeah, just passed.

439
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 3: And I played you and I have an understanding. I

440
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: believe that's you and you and I. Yes, that's the

441
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: one yo.

442
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: Wait, how did you know that, fante, because I didn't

443
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: even know that.

444
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was you know, I have informants, but but no, man, Wow,

445
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 4: he's only Okay, that's dope.

446
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: That's dope. Yes, uh huh it was. Patrick was a

447
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: phenomenal guy. Man. He played like six or seven instruments

448
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: and we would start off on the keyboard and the drums.

449
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 3: As I started and I played goodness, I must have

450
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: recorded for four different tracks, two of which you know

451
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: don't turn around and that You and I.

452
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, whoa, that's crazy. I know you played on

453
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: You and I. Damn okay, that's a classic.

454
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 4: Your first band, East Coast with Gwyn Guthrie. Yeah, talking

455
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: about how did that come together?

456
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: Well, we played at the Cheetah of great Dale. She

457
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 3: was with a group called the Matchmakers. I believe they

458
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 3: were from East Orange and we would see each other

459
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 3: a lot. So when I was about to form the

460
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 3: first unit that turned in the cameo, I asked her

461
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: she was interested in joining a band playing all originals

462
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 3: and of course that was a dream back then and

463
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: East Coase we played in Long Island a great deal

464
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 3: and whenever we could get we could get work. We

465
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: played in Quebec, a place called tour Vieir, which was

466
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 3: about our Montreal. We were up there for a while.

467
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: That was That was the closest thing to a residency

468
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: that I can remember. But Gwyn was a very talented

469
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 3: you know how talented she is. She was phenomenal. Man.

470
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 3: I loved working with Gwen and her and and Uh

471
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: a trombone player connected uh. And they wrote. As a

472
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: matter of fact, then that Benny Ashburn, the Commodore's manager. Yes,

473
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 3: he was living in Lenox Terrace at the time. We

474
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: had a residency at Smalls Paradise. Yes, yes, I believe.

475
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: I believe that Robert de Niro now owns that club

476
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: and has kept it running.

477
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: Oh really yeah yeah, m hm.

478
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: He he hooked it up and kind of refurbished it.

479
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I know of a patient in Philadelphia that

480
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: he did the same same thing, but I believe that

481
00:32:49,800 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 3: was more of an after our place hood spots. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

482
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 3: he's uh yeah, you know, we we'd story about Robert

483
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: and I are staying at at that that hotel in

484
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: Hollywood where where Blushi was found.

485
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: Damn, I used to stay there, yeah of course yeah,

486
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: uh and uh, Rick and I was staying there.

487
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: Well, we were there for other reasons, but that's how

488
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 3: I met Eddie. As a matter of fact, Rick introduced

489
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: me to him, and then I, uh, I produced his

490
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 3: second album. I believe.

491
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: The one after how could it be? The one after

492
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: would put Your Mouth on Me? Yeah, the one with

493
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: that song on it?

494
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Tom was the was the hotel.

495
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: Mama that's right. Yeah, and you know Rick had to

496
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: get the room that they found John Belucian.

497
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: You know what, everyone is obsessed with that Bungalow number.

498
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: Everyone's obsessed with it.

499
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 3: That's where Dan, Aaron and I met. We would always

500
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 3: meet in the garage coming to go here Hunter at

501
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 3: the time and who I recognizing. But that wasn't it

502
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 3: wasn't that kind of thing. We were talking about typical things.

503
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, he honorary brother man.

504
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 3: He's he's a real guy already.

505
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 5: Already already, so even before the crafting of the group,

506
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 5: like who else was just around the scene in that

507
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 5: period in the early seventies, mid seventies, before Cameo started.

508
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 3: There was a person that's no longer with us. He's

509
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 3: a co writer on that You and I I have

510
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 3: an understanding By the Moments, which was a big song.

511
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 3: His name was Tyrone Johnson, saxophone player. He was absolutely genius.

512
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 3: I've learned. I learned so much from those cats and

513
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 3: here I am, you know, goodness gracious about nineteen at

514
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 3: the time. As a matter of fact, the group I

515
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 3: was working with was being managed by Jeans Red at

516
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 3: the time, who was the producer for cooling the game, right.

517
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 3: So George and I have known each other a long

518
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: time and he's always been the same guy, punky George. Yes, man, Okay,

519
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 3: he's a good brother. It'sday that could go past, or

520
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 3: birthday that he wouldn't send, you know, a happy birthday.

521
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: And they were playing at the Apollo, so as you

522
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: can see, you know, being affiliated with those guys, those

523
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 3: related ships lasted the longest. The real musicians too. It

524
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 3: mattered to us back then, you know, about every everything

525
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: we were doing. And Tarry Rone taught Ronald had the

526
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: circular breathe and we just played with with cool And

527
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 3: then how long ago was that son before? Yeah, before

528
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 3: the pandemic? Okay, okay, yeah, at the Mohegan Son, I

529
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: believe it was, yeah, and sore before I got out

530
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 3: of the dressing room, Ronald ran in and uh a

531
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 3: couple of the guys, I mean, we reminisced about those times.

532
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 3: It was. It was very special. Let me say that you're.

533
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: Speaking of brother byan uh there saxophone player who passed

534
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 2: away through the pandemic. One of one of my main

535
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: regrets is not interviewing him.

536
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: Man.

537
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: He you know, he had so much knowledge and his

538
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: story in his work. Yeah, he was, So can you

539
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: tell me the story that well, not only that leads

540
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: up to you forming cameo, but how you caught the

541
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 2: attention of Cecil Holmes and and Neil Bougart on Castle

542
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 2: Blink of Chocolate City.

543
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, at the time it was New York City

544
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 3: Players as we call we call ourselves, and we played

545
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 3: East Coast, the Chilling Circuit behind people like the Ohio Players,

546
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 3: George Benton and and others, you know, Rochester, Buffalo, Toronto, Michigan.

547
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 3: Uh you know. Anyway, there was a club in New York.

548
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 3: I had passed this place millions of times, didn't know

549
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 3: what it was. It was called Better Days. And the

550
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: guy that handled our administration at the time, this is

551
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 3: one of his haunts. And we wound up playing there

552
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: on Mondays. We would play you know, the upstate New

553
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 3: York region and circle back to New York. We would

554
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 3: get back I think Sunday, and we played Mondays there

555
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: at that place. And there was a guy who was

556
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 3: a songwriter and they wanted me to produce this song

557
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 3: he wrote called find My Way. It was during the

558
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 3: end of the disco era, so we recorded it and

559
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: do one of our songs. On the other side, Neil

560
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 3: Bogart was crazy about the song. We did a single

561
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 3: deal with Casa Blanca. You know, that was after the

562
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 3: Booter thing with Neil. Neil didn't even know we were black,

563
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 3: and yeah, it was a single deal and Neil promoted

564
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 3: this song and did as much as he could for

565
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: you know, any song, but he was just crazy about it.

566
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: When I guess they found out we were black. Then

567
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 3: it became a part of Cecil Homes Chocolate City label. Anyway,

568
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 3: so after I mean after, I mean he couldn't do

569
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 3: any more for that song, but I mean we put

570
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 3: our hearts into it and did the work. But I

571
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 3: asked he sort of come listen to our original material.

572
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 3: And then we rented si R over there in fifty

573
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: second Street, and Shecill came to hear and we played

574
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 3: Rigamortis Funk Funk, the songs we were working with at

575
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: the time. So after rehearsal was over, the presentation pretty

576
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 3: much was over. I asked him if if he thought

577
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 3: we could do something, and he said, I think so.

578
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: Then then an offer was made for an album deal,

579
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 3: and so every album we recorded after that was gold.

580
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 3: Riga Mortis was the first single. I happened to be

581
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: working on Wall Street at this haberdasherie, and I don't

582
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 3: know if you guys remember, but Frankie on BLS had

583
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: the slots called the World Premiere, and I forget what

584
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 3: the other ones were, but I noticed whenever it was

585
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 3: a world premiere song debuted, it became a hit. Maybe

586
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 3: it was because it was played twelve times a day,

587
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 3: but anyway, I was fitting a customer and heard the

588
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 3: World Premiere and then our song came on.

589
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: I have the Frankie Crocker World Premiere dropped a word.

590
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 2: I collect, you know as as a so called a story,

591
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 2: and I often beg and buck people for like old

592
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: school radio drops from back in the day.

593
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, Well, when that came on, I knew

594
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 3: that what Riga Mortis was going to be a hit.

595
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 3: I had never heard, I mean, everybody else Barry White. Oh,

596
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 3: I can't remember all of this, all of the world

597
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,959
Speaker 3: premiers at all, but man, I dare you to find

598
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 3: one that did not become ahead whatever. For whatever reason,

599
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 3: Rigam Martins did forty thousand copies in two weeks. And

600
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 3: we were off.

601
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: At the time when you wrote Riga Mortis was you know,

602
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: a monster groove. You know the environment at the time

603
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy seven, you know p funk hatt finally

604
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 2: planted its flag of course.

605
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 1: Earth Wind and Fire. You know, they were pretty much

606
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: the monuments.

607
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: How where are you of what the environment was as

608
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: far as funk bands were concerned, and was it a

609
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: thing where it's like, Okay, what can we do to

610
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: stand out from the rest or make our own mark?

611
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 2: Because the one thing that I will say about you

612
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: guys that maybe maybe and I don't count heat Wave

613
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: because there even though they're from two brothers in Ohio,

614
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: I've just never seen a band like literally do everything

615
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: but the kitchen sink on stage as far as the presentation,

616
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 2: the dancing, the it's it's beyond just performing your song,

617
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 2: Like what what was it? What was in the drive

618
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 2: that drove you guys to eat and to dance that

619
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 2: hard and not be out of breath? Like can you

620
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 2: just walk us through the rehard sole aspects of what

621
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: you guys were trying to go for when you're doing this, of.

622
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 3: Course you know this, that's how bad we wanted it.

623
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 3: We wanted to do what we felt would work. I

624
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 3: think Earthwuney Fire played played a a large had a

625
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: large influence on us at the time, and and surely thereafter.

626
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 3: Maurice was like a mentor. He would play or they

627
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 3: would playing at the Omni Omni in Atlanta and he'd

628
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 3: call and ask and you know, let me know where

629
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 3: he was. And just recently Larry Dunne was telling me, Man,

630
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 3: I remember seeing you even Maurice's room at three am

631
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: in the morning. Maurice was was very, very generous and

632
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: sharing things that I could not have known at that time.

633
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 3: And the political going on and enact that large and

634
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 3: regardless if you saw five, four or six people, you know,

635
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 3: there were always ten to twelve month stage. And that's

636
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 3: why I cut down on the photos on how many

637
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 3: people took photos, because I found in marketing that it's

638
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 3: easier for a fan to remember, you know, four or

639
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 3: five people, but if you turn the album you'll see

640
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 3: everyone then had something to do with you know, what

641
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: we were doing. It was a collaborative affair. It was

642
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 3: a democratic dictatorship. Okay, with the experience that I had

643
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 3: at the time, it was just coincidental that I couldn't

644
00:44:55,120 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 3: think of anyone else that possessed as much and everyone

645
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 3: was open to I had an open door policy, you know,

646
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: if you had something to share, something to give, something to,

647
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 3: you know, suggest I was open because I felt that,

648
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 3: you know, for a group, especially like Cameo, it took

649
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 3: everyone's sincere involvement. And you know, we didn't have room

650
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 3: for games. We had to be radio friendly. No matter

651
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,879
Speaker 3: what we did, they would tell us that, well, they're

652
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 3: playing balance now. You know, you guys need to come

653
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 3: with a ballot. We come with it up tempo because

654
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 3: we thought that worked at New York radio and it did.

655
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 3: You know, the choices we made was great.

656
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: I got one question though, yes, because this is typical

657
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 2: what you'll see when bands from the seventies sort of

658
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: transition to the eighties. You see that they will scale down.

659
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: My guess is for financial reasons. But how as bandleader,

660
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 2: how are you able? Like why would you have fourteen

661
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: people inside your organization?

662
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: Like?

663
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: And what is pay?

664
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 3: Like?

665
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: What is what is per diem?

666
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 3: Like?

667
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: What's per diem a thing? How would you guys get

668
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: to gigs?

669
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 3: Like?

670
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: Are you driving yourselves?

671
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,919
Speaker 2: Was there a tour bus back in seventy seven seventy eight?

672
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: Did you have roadies.

673
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 6: Back then you said, like one question, it's like fucking

674
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 6: twenty questions.

675
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 3: You might have seen fourteen, but trust me, fourteen was

676
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 3: not you know, the decisions were made by the gentleman

677
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 3: you're speaking to right now. I had a responsibility and

678
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 3: if it didn't work, if someone else had better way

679
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 3: of approaching it, I was open to that. It wasn't

680
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 3: you know, as long as it was working, it was working.

681
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 2: But isn't it also like managing personalities and Jedi mind trix,

682
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 2: who's late to the bus, who has an attitude?

683
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: Who's talking to this girl?

684
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 3: We didn't have that. We were serious, We were deadly serious.

685
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 3: It wasn't you know, we didn't have that problem. I

686
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 3: think everyone appreciated the fact that we had built something

687
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 3: that was hard to keep together, and we tried to

688
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 3: avoid that nonsense as much as we could. Yeah, and

689
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 3: then when we talk about the seventies, our thing happened

690
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: closer to the end of the seventies. We did have

691
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 3: a bus. We bought a used Greyhound bus at first,

692
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 3: and then we bought a bus to Muhammad Ali sold

693
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 3: to us or his representatives, and it worked for several years.

694
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: I was in Jet magazine how about that? And in

695
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 3: Life magazine to the center page, we took a photo

696
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: for publicity reasons. But you know, I enjoyed working with

697
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 3: you know, talented cats and it was fun as well

698
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 3: because I couldn't think of anything else that I would

699
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 3: want to do. I did attend july On for almost

700
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 3: two years started happening, and I just didn't see any

701
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 3: reason whatsoever that I should stay at that school. When

702
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 3: hearing things like, you know, no one contributed anything to

703
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 3: contemporary music worthwhile since the Beatles, I said, Okay, I

704
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: got you. Well, let me let me get ready for

705
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,879
Speaker 3: us to put our gigs together. You know what I mean.

706
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 2: So when working on like the Cardiac Dress record, which

707
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 2: you know is the first album you produced, it were

708
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 2: you nervous as a producer? Did you?

709
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: Or was it just like a learning curve?

710
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 3: No I produced before Cameo was the group?

711
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 2: Okay?

712
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 3: I worked a great deal and producing and taught self

713
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 3: taught engineer. Okay. You know I had relationships. I played

714
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 3: with the group Top Shelf. As a matter of fact,

715
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 3: that's how I met Patrick. Okay, the group Top Shelf,

716
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 3: I believe they had a regional head called give it Up.

717
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 3: Just remember that or not, but I haven't, you know,

718
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: I had.

719
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: I knew people like Brendan and Tablations right on the

720
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: tip of my tongue, yeah, right.

721
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 3: Right, right right, cool people and running to them in

722
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 3: Hollywood and other places. Okay, you know, I was truly

723
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: aside from a student of music, and and you know,

724
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 3: I've had some some moments, man, that were just unforgettable.

725
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 3: And what you were always wanted was to be a

726
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 3: part of black culture. You wanted to be remembered as

727
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 3: being a part of that. And I think we achieved that.

728
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 3: And it takes a while before you realize what you

729
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 3: have done, and you know that brings about, you know,

730
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: other challenges and other things to do. But you find

731
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 3: that you understand your music in a different way. And

732
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 3: and it wasn't about going in a curt okay, it

733
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 3: was about you know, achieving goals and and you you're

734
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 3: serious about it. And when I discovered the Mitchell Beachi

735
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 3: X eight fifty, my whole world changed. Then. As far

736
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 3: as production is concerned, that was a hell of machine.

737
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 3: I can tell you that that thing made silence sound good.

738
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,919
Speaker 3: So you were a tech head, well somewhat, I won't

739
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 3: say a total tech head, but what I did know

740
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 3: and understand, you know, and then I was happy to

741
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 3: be a part of old school ending and then the

742
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 3: new technology emerging. Uh. I really enjoyed that because the

743
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 3: things that that I know how to do with music,

744
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: and believe it or not, it doesn't even matter anymore

745
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: today it doesn't seem to matter as much. But I

746
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 3: always wanted music to sound good, and if you listen

747
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 3: to UH, it matters, really really it does matter.

748
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 2: Okay, here's the thing. I know, I know a lot

749
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 2: of us have our thoughts on like this person seems

750
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 2: to just be phoned in from home or the thing.

751
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 2: The thing is though, that there are artists out there

752
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: that are doing it. I just think now that because

753
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 2: the gate is why it left, you know, wide open.

754
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 2: It's it's it's almost like way too much. It's saturated.

755
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 2: And but I'm I'm a person that likes to search

756
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 2: for you know, there there are some diamonds and the

757
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: roughs out there that kind of give me hope that

758
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 2: there's still a good future in music. It's just oftentimes,

759
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 2: and it's like that in history, it's like sometimes the

760
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 2: best of the crop don't necessarily.

761
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: Get the massive exposure that someone that.

762
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 2: Who is not as talented gets you know.

763
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: Yes, that's that's always been the history of music.

764
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 2: You know, like a group like the Meters, uh, you know,

765
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 2: unfortunately didn't get the push that they should have gotten,

766
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.

767
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's and that was a man.

768
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Speaking of D'Angelo, I've never met a cat now.

769
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 2: I mean again, cameos all things to all people. And

770
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 2: you guys have had your your different phases and your metamorphosis.

771
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: But I for some reason, he told me, like when

772
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 2: he was a kid, like the cameo ballot meant more

773
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: to him than even Earth Wind and Fire like people

774
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 2: would like with with established hits whatever for him, like

775
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 2: why have I lost you? Or even Sparkle. A matter

776
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: of fact, he produced Sparkle for I forget the name

777
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: of that group. Uh, it's like four Brothers from It's

778
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,240
Speaker 2: like right after Brown Circuit came out, D'Angelo produced a.

779
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: Cover of Sparkle. Oh Wow, four oh. A group called

780
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: Twice Oh no Wow. It came out in like ninety

781
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: five and.

782
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 2: Angie Stone and like the first time I heard Sparkle

783
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: because the thing was like even on Brown Sugar, like

784
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: those patches that he had, like you instantly knew it

785
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 2: was him, but for him, like your ballads meant everything.

786
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna ask you about Two of Us

787
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 4: because that's been sample. You know what I mean by

788
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 4: I already sampled it to pop, you know? But yeah,

789
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 4: I love that song, man.

790
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 3: Yes, Two of Us was a nice song, wasn't. I

791
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 3: knew that you had to have. If you didn't have

792
00:54:53,840 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 3: a banging ballad along with the tempo banger, then you

793
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,760
Speaker 3: didn't have a record. We wanted to be a part

794
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 3: of our culture. In order to achieve that, we had

795
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 3: to achieve those those goals you had to and I

796
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 3: had to have a first tenor a soothing baritone, okay,

797
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 3: and then we you know, I consider myself a song stylist,

798
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 3: you know, unlike Luther Vandross, who we know when he

799
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 3: was born, he came out singing those that are fortunate

800
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 3: enough others who had to play the top ten to

801
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 3: work being a drummer or being a band trying to

802
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 3: have consistency. It was important for you to learn those

803
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 3: things and as a result we have, Oh and we

804
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:00,240
Speaker 3: have other things that we learned that you make your

805
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 3: style okay, but I appreciate every Ohio. I mean, I

806
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 3: was with Sugarfoot not long before he left us, and man,

807
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 3: I mean, what could that guy do that I wouldn't like.

808
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 3: I don't know. You listen to some of those records, man,

809
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 3: and come on, you know that that shit is real? Yes,

810
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 3: I mean, can I tell you? Can I say anything else.

811
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 1: The great lead word Browner Sugarfoot?

812
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely?

813
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 3: Man.

814
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 2: You know you know something now as you mentioned it.

815
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 2: What I truly admire about your approach to music in

816
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 2: a way that I actually think and I don't know

817
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 2: if this blasphemous to say, because you know, for a

818
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 2: lot of people they're the mount rushmore.

819
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: But what I always loved about your.

820
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: Version of songs is how you handled what I dub

821
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 2: the Greek course in terms of like take a song

822
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 2: like attack me with you love or back and forth

823
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 2: where you all sing.

824
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: So I forgot where I heard it.

825
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if George told me, but he's like,

826
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 2: if you do it as a Greek course where all

827
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 2: the voices are singing in the same unison, then that's

828
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 2: a more inclusive thing for the audience that want to

829
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 2: learn the lyrics and sing along with you like a

830
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 2: shower singer or a bathroom singer. And I always wanted

831
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 2: to know, was that by design?

832
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 3: I call it a choral lead. Okay, that type of

833
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 3: vocal approach. Okay, it feels good. I don't know if

834
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 3: George's theory is correct. I wouldn't challenge it. I think

835
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 3: there's more truth to that than not. But when I

836
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 3: approach producing and production, I try to make it what

837
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 3: someone would like. I tried to put myself in an

838
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 3: audience's position and listening to this and a choral lead

839
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 3: or really there really is an effective technique because then

840
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 3: you can have individuals accent that approach, and you have

841
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 3: a chance to do things with that, with that material

842
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 3: that you wouldn't any other way. I try to imagine

843
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 3: it as a lead, and it doesn't have the same umph, okay,

844
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 3: and I would take that and play with that. With songs,

845
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 3: there would be no guarantee that the way you hear

846
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 3: a song originally would turn out to be as as

847
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 3: you might have imagined it to be. And I think

848
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 3: having that control, which is why we have the variety

849
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 3: we have in cameo, it couldn't be a one dimensional issue.

850
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 3: It could not be there's too much to do, too

851
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 3: much you can do. So when we talk about songs

852
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 3: and okay, what your approach to this song? How do

853
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 3: you think this should be? You know, what about this chorus?

854
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 3: How do you want that to happen? Okay? And who's

855
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 3: going to make the transition? Who's going to set up

856
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 3: the bridge? Okay? What are we going to do there? Man?

857
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 3: To me, I love my work. I could do that

858
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 3: and a couple of couple of lifetimes. You know a

859
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 3: lot to do if you truly enjoy music, and I

860
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 3: enjoy all types of music, and you can relate to this.

861
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to mention what was the name of that

862
00:59:55,320 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 3: song Grove and Washington? That album? Come on, mister magic,

863
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 3: mister yeah, good on. George Benson. Yes, but h man,

864
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 3: I used to walk around with that playing that that

865
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 3: mister magic and uh and and and uh George Benson's material.

866
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 3: In New York I used to live, uh when when

867
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 3: I moved from my parents' home, I lived across the

868
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 3: street from I guess a city center on fifty fifth

869
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 3: Street between six and seven. And man, you'd be surprised

870
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 3: who you run into just walking down the street. Fred

871
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 3: is there? I mean Gene Kelly. When New York New

872
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 3: York debuted at that theater right around the corner for me,

873
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 3: New York, New York. Yeah, and where the studio was

874
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 3: quadrasnic and became known for a lot of things you

875
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 3: wouldn't want a studio.

876
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 2: Oh we know, I know about Quiet Studios, trust me.

877
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 3: But uh and Occentral Yeah, straight up. I almost signed

878
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 3: up my man Teddy Riley. Yeah we met there. What Yeah,

879
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 3: but Teddy said, Larry, if I signed with your man,

880
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 3: Jean tried to kill me. Wow.

881
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 7: Wow, that's that's a true story. Ask all right, Yo,

882
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 7: I gotta know what was it.

883
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 2: For me? Like as a fan of your your your

884
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 2: entire canon. For me, starting with Secret Omen, something different happened.

885
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 2: And you know, a song like I Just want to Be.

886
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: And I know, like every cameo fan has their cameo

887
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 2: song that they stick to where they say, okay, like

888
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 2: Ricka Morton is the funkiest, or She Strange is the

889
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 2: punkiest or whatever. Can't But for me, I Just Want

890
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 2: to Be was so damn futuristic because the thing is,

891
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 2: I know that record came out in seventy nine, but

892
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 2: in my mind it sounded like for me that was

893
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 2: Prince's blueprint and this is way before we're talking about

894
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 2: new wave or the Minneapolis sound or whatever. But just

895
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:33,959
Speaker 2: like the stacking of handclaps, the absolute gup bucket funk

896
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 2: of it all. How how did that song even the

897
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 2: fact that you guys you know, have miniature courses inside

898
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 2: of even the structure of that song is so weird

899
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 2: like it.

900
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 3: I Just Want to Be was our first gold single,

901
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 3: and I probably brought them all it was it was.

902
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 3: It was real strange, and it was different, and that

903
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 3: it was meant to be. It was meant to go

904
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 3: against the grain of what everyone thought a head record was,

905
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 3: and it was about the melodic structure being accented based

906
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 3: on a melody that was in that you know, base range, okay,

907
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 3: based the lower baritone range, and you made the music

908
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 3: exactly as the melody was going. And the other things

909
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 3: we did with that developed on its own while being

910
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 3: created and while being recorded. I'd say having had the

911
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 3: good fortune to work with engineers that were frustrated about

912
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 3: how they were recording the same old shit, you know

913
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 3: what I mean, and we just had to do it differently.

914
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 3: Engineers like Dave Oh, I don't know if you're familiar

915
01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 3: with him, York Man and I had no idea Jay

916
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 3: played bass man. He was. We were two controlled freaks.

917
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 3: They learned how to work and learned how to work

918
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 3: with each other, you know, and we did and it

919
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 3: turned out to be dynamite. I mean from single life,

920
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 3: word Up and the and the mixes thereof it was.

921
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 3: It was just phenomenal. Man, every oveloape to be pushed.

922
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 3: It was as I'm certainly a guy that was not

923
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 3: afraid to take that fade a where it was going

924
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 3: to go. I said, you know, I don't judge music

925
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 3: by what that needle was telling me and what that

926
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 3: graph is telling me. When I from then, I know

927
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 3: I've I've done, I've raised it too hot. You know.

928
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 3: That's digit feedback there that I understand. But you know

929
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 3: I used to get into arguments with engineers about you know,

930
01:04:54,000 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 3: you're at plus five I could I don't plus five plus.

931
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter to me. I just want that thing.

932
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 3: I want I know it can sound. I want to

933
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 3: see where I have to back off. You know, there's

934
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 3: no way to know unless you go there.

935
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: I gotta ask you, And for for a lot of

936
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 2: fans of of of hip hop, you'll be interested to

937
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 2: know I gotta ask you about brother Aaron Mills. Aaron

938
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 2: Mills to hip hop fans, I guess starting with stank

939
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 2: Odia album, basically like Aaron Mills' base became the sound

940
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: of like a lot of the Outcast's funkiest songs, starting

941
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 2: with like his bass work on Miss Jackson, uh and

942
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 2: beyond like uh, he's all over speaker box and whatnot.

943
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 2: But he's the base of I just want to.

944
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 3: Be finding Aaron was. You know, we we were booked

945
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 3: out on a date. N CCU was booked on that.

946
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 4: Date, North Carolina Central n CCU.

947
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 2: Yes, he's from North Carolina. Yeah, yeah, I mean I

948
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 2: went to Central. That's mine, that's my alma mater.

949
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 3: Right, and Professor Bird was working with some of the Cats,

950
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:22,919
Speaker 3: actually both groups, the Birds, yes, Blackbirds and n CCU.

951
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 3: So you know, we needed a bass player who could

952
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 3: do vocals as well and could move. So when I

953
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 3: saw her, and I knew that that was the that

954
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 3: I knew we had to try them out, and so

955
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 3: we contracted them and offered them to come up to

956
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 3: New York to to try out. We used to use

957
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 3: the Daily Planet there on thirty whatever street that was

958
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 3: on right and and we had some people that just

959
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 3: didn't want it, man. They were they wanted to be

960
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 3: in an act where it was totally different and we

961
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 3: could make it happen. And our approach vocally, our approach

962
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 3: about anything, was about being tired of the same old stuff,

963
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and we wanted to do

964
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 3: something different. That's what we did. And and we've used

965
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 3: some musicians from London. It didn't matter where they were from, man,

966
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 3: if they had that thing, and especially when it came

967
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 3: to recording and ideas that were different, it was exciting.

968
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 3: It was beyond beyond that.

969
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 4: And also to want to mention Bernard Wright, who you

970
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 4: know recently passed, like, what was it like working with him?

971
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 3: Man? We were talking about that that hours ago. I

972
01:07:54,680 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 3: still that that was hard for me too, and you know,

973
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 3: and I didn't know what of course, as as demids

974
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 3: that and someone told me he was hit by a car.

975
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 2: H oh wow.

976
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 3: But Bernard is one of those geniuses and his later

977
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 3: teenage years, everybody he listened to was dead, I mean,

978
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 3: and that fucking for Jamaica. Come on, we know what that.

979
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 2: Is, yes, I mean the Masterpiece.

980
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 3: I was just contacted recently about some tribute that they're

981
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 3: doing to Bernard, And I'm trying to think about that

982
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 3: thing Bernard was. You know, there are guys you you

983
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 3: you've had relationships with to remind you of people like

984
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 3: Jimi Hendricks and and and others. They just have their

985
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 3: on that different on that different trajectory that like you

986
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 3: can't think of other people mhm, thanks with the same flavor.

987
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 3: Bernard is one of those guys. And I've worked with

988
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 3: I don't know how many keyboard players. He his spirit

989
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 3: was something very different. Had you ever worked with the request.

990
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 2: I met Nard a few times at like you know,

991
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 2: occasional jam sessions and whatnot, but it never got to

992
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 2: work with him. Oh and really really didn't get to

993
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 2: nerd out on him like I wanted to, you know.

994
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 2: And I'm such a fan of like just that era

995
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 2: of Marcus Miller and the you know, the Jamaica Boys

996
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. And I'm such a fan of

997
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 2: such a fan of that era. But We're probably gonna

998
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:44,679
Speaker 2: have Marcus Miller on soon, so I'll get to learn

999
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 2: more about him. But no, definitely that he you know,

1000
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 2: especially you could tell to me, you could tell like

1001
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 2: the true artist three of someone I'm a hits guy.

1002
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm I don't. I think I'm more of

1003
01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:59,600
Speaker 2: a filler guy than I'm a hits guy. Like I

1004
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 2: feel like the true definition of an artist is based

1005
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 2: on the album cuts and how.

1006
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: They treat that.

1007
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 2: And for him, especially like he's just his ideas were

1008
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 2: like way way, way beyond, way beyond his time period.

1009
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 2: I want to skip I want to skip ahead to

1010
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 2: the Alligated Woman album. You know, Alligated Woman is probably

1011
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:36,559
Speaker 2: one of the most curious songs of your catalog, and

1012
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 2: at the time, like I think Blacks were trying to

1013
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 2: figure out, like what their position was in just a

1014
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 2: non dance music structure for that album, Like, could you

1015
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 2: just discuss what the creative angle was, especially with that

1016
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 2: very unusual song in your.

1017
01:10:54,280 --> 01:11:02,759
Speaker 3: Catalog, Freedom, that was the precipitated factor. After a while,

1018
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 3: you start to hear, well, you've heard it all your life,

1019
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 3: but you didn't really pay attention to it until it

1020
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 3: pertained to you or involved you. And we were at

1021
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 3: a place where, you know, yeah, we recorded a lot

1022
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 3: of things and they were very good to us, but

1023
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 3: Alligated Woman, you just wanted to Freedom to be able

1024
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 3: to do, and surprisingly enough, it surprised the heck out

1025
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 3: of me. It did quite well, it didn't. I mean,

1026
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 3: I was really surprised about that. I think at the

1027
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 3: time maybe number four or five or maybe even higher

1028
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 3: on the R and B arts at the time. But

1029
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:49,599
Speaker 3: songs like Secrets of.

1030
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: Time and Flirt especially, Yes.

1031
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that was that was That was

1032
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 3: That was some funky stuff. Indeed, we didn't try to

1033
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 3: be different as much as we challenged ourselves more or less.

1034
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 2: You know, I would also like to know, I know

1035
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 2: that in eighty two, maybe it was eighty one, you

1036
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 2: made the transition from singing vocals behind the drum set

1037
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 2: and getting in front of the microphone. For you, how

1038
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,640
Speaker 2: fearg was that to you? Or you know, were you

1039
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 2: reluctant leader?

1040
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 3: It was very foreign.

1041
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:37,719
Speaker 1: How did you find a drummer that you trusted live?

1042
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:41,280
Speaker 3: And we still we're still looking for that drummer We've had,

1043
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 3: we've had, we've had them at times. It was a

1044
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:52,839
Speaker 3: real strange thing, you know, we didn't with the changes

1045
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 3: that went on, We didn't have that person up front

1046
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 3: that had the relationship with the audience that we wanted

1047
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 3: for it to have. And as much as I didn't

1048
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 3: want to, it was discussed a couple of times, and

1049
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 3: then and then hit things like you know you gotta

1050
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:15,679
Speaker 3: you gotta come out front because you're singing these songs.

1051
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 3: Also that we're performing and you're doing this, and the

1052
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 3: third and man, have we had drummers, God knows, we

1053
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 3: have tried. We had everybody with you guy.

1054
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 1: Hey, you never know, man, I would put that on

1055
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:34,519
Speaker 1: my bucket.

1056
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 3: Listen you, man, you're one of the only drummers I

1057
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 3: know that has a steady pocket. That's for real. There

1058
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 3: are a couple of other people we've heard. But it's

1059
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 3: not as easy as you might think it should be.

1060
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 3: I don't know. I haven't figured that one out yet.

1061
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 3: I can't even put it into words, but I know

1062
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 3: it's hard working. I am very close. I'm sitting back

1063
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 3: down on those drums, I'll tell you that much.

1064
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 4: I was curious to know about your work with Miles Davis.

1065
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 4: What was it like working with him kind of man

1066
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 4: on that album.

1067
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:22,639
Speaker 2: And specifically, why was he just randomly in these videos

1068
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 2: without any context whatsoever.

1069
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:30,559
Speaker 3: I met Miles when I was eight years old. At first,

1070
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 3: Miles used to train with boxers to stay in shape,

1071
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 3: and and my dad was in the boxing game, and

1072
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 3: so it turns out Miles had an attorney that when

1073
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 3: he passed the bar, he represented me for us in

1074
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 3: a situation where the manager we had and some years

1075
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 3: later lo and be old Peter's representing Miles Yoko, Oh no,

1076
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 3: several different people. So and knowing that I had a

1077
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 3: song that I had somebody played the you know, the

1078
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:19,680
Speaker 3: demo of that, I wanted Miles to hear. And he

1079
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 3: called back that afternoon about two hours later, and uh,

1080
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 3: I like this to this and he was writing as

1081
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,480
Speaker 3: an autobiography at the time with the Gentleman.

1082
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 2: With Quincy Troop.

1083
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, yes, And man, we had a good

1084
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 3: time with Miles. You know, everything he had to say

1085
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 3: meant something, And uh, man, do I missed that guy, Miles.

1086
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 3: I enjoyed Miles a lot, very useful energy, which I

1087
01:15:54,840 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 3: guess amounts for the musicians here playing with him. His

1088
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 3: nephew played for us for a while too, but being

1089
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 3: in the videos, we just invited him down. And uh,

1090
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:14,559
Speaker 3: you know, Miles was always colorful. He was the heck

1091
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 3: of a guy, and he seemed to enjoy the female

1092
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:19,760
Speaker 3: company of the ladies.

1093
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, just without any context, you would look and then

1094
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 2: it would be like Miles Davis for like two seconds,

1095
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 2: and without the internet and without like a VCR to rewind,

1096
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 2: it was like, wait that now that was a Miles Davis.

1097
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 2: What would he be doing that? Like when they first

1098
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 2: came out, I never knew that was I was like,

1099
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 2: that's a guy that looks like Miles Davis or you know,

1100
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 2: maybe Charlie Singleton had a cousin or something that was

1101
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 2: Solder or something like that. Like that's what I was thinking. Oh,

1102
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 2: I know what I want to know. At any point,

1103
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 2: did any of you guys sort of get make the

1104
01:16:55,600 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 2: correlation that the young lady that's saying nasty girl was

1105
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 2: actually on the front cover of Alligator Woman.

1106
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:08,839
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we of course we knew that.

1107
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you instantly that that was that was Vanity

1108
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 2: on the cover of Wow. Okay indeed, because I know

1109
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 2: she was doing before Vanity six got established, but.

1110
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 3: Right, but she was. She was just perfect for what

1111
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 3: I say, we uh the photographer and and uh Peanut Gallery.

1112
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, say no more, I got you.

1113
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 3: But uh, I get it. But it worked. And I

1114
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 3: think Prince must have called her about four or five

1115
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 3: times while we were working shooting that day.

1116
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 2: That's right. They weren't dating by then. Okay, I see.

1117
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 3: Who this was on the phone, uh, until it became

1118
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,559
Speaker 3: and someone said something about I think it was a

1119
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 3: photographer at the time, and I forget his name, but

1120
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 3: he was. He was colorful too, and I thought the

1121
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 3: idea was great and it worked.

1122
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 2: Keep talking about establishing your own label, because I think, yeah,

1123
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 2: slightly before she's strange. Maybe it was alligated woman or style.

1124
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 2: You started Atlanta Artists label.

1125
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 3: It was a logo label more than a separate label

1126
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:28,200
Speaker 3: within itself. It didn't have its own distribution structure. That

1127
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 3: was stuff. I didn't want to get into it that

1128
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 3: particular time, and it didn't make a difference to me

1129
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 3: at that moment, but we did well for it. It

1130
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 3: gave us positive identity in Atlanta, and we were fortunate

1131
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 3: enough to have some people working with us that helped

1132
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:56,760
Speaker 3: a great deal, and we were able to, you know,

1133
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 3: get some different things done. It was all real, quite positive. Okay,

1134
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 3: we don't want to start talking about Regulabel in the

1135
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 3: games thereof that's that's a whole nothing. Maybe it's just

1136
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 3: started another series.

1137
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 4: I feel hey, man, let's talk about it.

1138
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 8: Some times I feel you this is also the period

1139
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:26,839
Speaker 8: where And this is sort of across the board where

1140
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:28,560
Speaker 8: you know, the word.

1141
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:32,320
Speaker 1: Crossover kind of becomes part.

1142
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:35,760
Speaker 2: Of the black music vernacular as far as well, I

1143
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 2: know that was a four letter word, but you know,

1144
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:42,639
Speaker 2: not only that, but just transitioning. You're seeing a lot

1145
01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 2: of lead singers leave their groups. In eighty two. You're

1146
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 2: seeing a lot of groups that were once fourteen, thirteen,

1147
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 2: twelve members whittled down to trios and whatnot. How hard

1148
01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 2: was it for you to come to the decision that, Yo, man,

1149
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 2: we just gotta we got to pair it down a

1150
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:04,639
Speaker 2: little bit.

1151
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think anybody in our act

1152
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 3: saw it that way, yet, I have to be totally honest.

1153
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 3: I never asked. I know that Jean Paul Goutier had

1154
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 3: a summer line that had just been delivered to Bluingdale's,

1155
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 3: and our wardrobe guy made us aware of it, and

1156
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,439
Speaker 3: he checked the sizes and found that it would work

1157
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 3: for that concept. And as I said earlier, for identity purposes,

1158
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 3: I think it was easier for our fans to focus

1159
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 3: on a few people instead of a lot of people,

1160
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 3: and I think that worked for us. I turned around,

1161
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 3: and every other band is doing the same thing.

1162
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 2: So what made you keep Tony and Nathan and Charlie

1163
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:57,680
Speaker 2: like kind of as the core members.

1164
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 3: I don't think Charles he was there on that particular

1165
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:05,919
Speaker 3: on the on the word.

1166
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 1: Up cover, but well not word up, but he was

1167
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 1: at least.

1168
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 3: Yeah when we paid, when we paired it down starting

1169
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 3: with strange Alligator Woman and in style and those things. Yeah,

1170
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 3: we we tried to keep it a little closer uh

1171
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 3: to where we you know, we just wanted the identity

1172
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 3: to work. And at that time you think you're making

1173
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 3: a good decision about what works for the act. And

1174
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 3: it did at the time.

1175
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it worked.

1176
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 3: This is a strange business. You know, when something is working,

1177
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 3: it's working, and and I think people appreciate that until

1178
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 3: it gets into selfish reasons, you know, and that just happens.

1179
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 3: It's something that happens, you know, as all things. You know,

1180
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 3: there were challenges before that we had to get over

1181
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,760
Speaker 3: when it was the East East Coast and and other

1182
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:19,799
Speaker 3: uh con configurations. So I you know, what happened happened.

1183
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 3: You just had to work with it. And you know,

1184
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 3: as easy as it was for me to be so

1185
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 3: busy knowing what you have to do next, that I

1186
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 3: didn't worry so much about what was going on at

1187
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 3: the time, just being prepared for something else was you know,

1188
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 3: maybe maybe that was an escape mechanism for me. I

1189
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:50,120
Speaker 3: don't know. I only say that because I think about

1190
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 3: that now, But at the time I wasn't concerned about that.

1191
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 2: Okay.

1192
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 3: We just wanted to be good at what we did,

1193
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 3: offer something fresh. The high definition. Advent of high definition

1194
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 3: was the greatest thing that could have ever happened, not

1195
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 3: only with us but every everyone else because it was

1196
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:21,800
Speaker 3: said that technique would be and everyone's home and it was,

1197
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:26,559
Speaker 3: which was which was fun. But when we did the

1198
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 3: Candy video, that was that was phenomenal. Man, that that

1199
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 3: that piece of work there, that that's historic.

1200
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 2: Can I ask you about that video? Okay, So for

1201
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:43,680
Speaker 2: our listeners out there, I mentioned a few times, but

1202
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:48,639
Speaker 2: like you know, for fans of black music, you really

1203
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:52,000
Speaker 2: didn't have much to go on when finding out the

1204
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:55,640
Speaker 2: information of your favorite acts, like you either stuck in

1205
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 2: the sort of tweendom of right or magazine or the

1206
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 2: whole or opposite of it, which was like either epiting

1207
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:04,719
Speaker 2: or jet So for a lot of like music heads

1208
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:08,519
Speaker 2: like myself, there was a sort of a radio show

1209
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:11,520
Speaker 2: called Lee Bailey's Radioscope Rascope.

1210
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:15,040
Speaker 1: And you already know where I'm going with this. I

1211
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:15,599
Speaker 1: got it.

1212
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. Everyone's laughing at this, and I

1213
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 2: know you know where I'm going with this now, mind you.

1214
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:24,479
Speaker 1: I was fifteen at the time.

1215
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 2: Now, Radioscope on weekdays was only like a three minute

1216
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 2: kind of like a quickie news update on Serio, you know,

1217
01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:39,599
Speaker 2: at least a serious journalism if you want to call

1218
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 2: it that of your favorite groups.

1219
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 1: But I'd never.

1220
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 2: Heard a more controversial hot take like Radioscope was almost

1221
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 2: like Black Twitter before Black Twitter thirty thirty.

1222
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 1: And you know, for me.

1223
01:24:56,479 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 2: As a fourteen fifteen year older watching you know of

1224
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 2: our burden and like the word of video and the

1225
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 2: candy video and all that stuff and even like attack

1226
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 2: me with your love with Debbie and what's his name from?

1227
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 3: Uh?

1228
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:16,439
Speaker 2: Whether were in general hospital or whatever? Were you? How

1229
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:20,920
Speaker 2: upset were you when fans were complaining about, you know,

1230
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:25,400
Speaker 2: sort of accusing you guys of not focusing like you

1231
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 2: you would have a wide array of women in your videos.

1232
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:32,800
Speaker 2: It was black women, it was white women, it was

1233
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 2: brown women, Asian women, Like, were you aware of how

1234
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 2: like discussed or discussed your videos were at the time,

1235
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 2: like there was just a thing where it's like only

1236
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 2: black women are allowed to be in cameo videos, and

1237
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 2: why there's all these why all these white women and

1238
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 2: Asian women, Like, yes, we now it's like nothing, but

1239
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:00,760
Speaker 2: it was so pioneering back then and controversial. Were you

1240
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:04,839
Speaker 2: even aware of Lee Bailey's radioscope and how like fans

1241
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:05,880
Speaker 2: were sort of just like.

1242
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:08,920
Speaker 1: Hot behind the collar over this.

1243
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 3: More than I more than I wanted to be.

1244
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: But that's why you laugh when I said Lee Bailey, he.

1245
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 3: Didn't get any complaints from the fans. We complain, no, no, listen,

1246
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:26,799
Speaker 3: there might have been others that had things to say,

1247
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 3: but Lee Bailey. I liked Lee Bailey. He was a good,

1248
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 3: good buddy. He found something that gave him clicks, yeah,

1249
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:42,640
Speaker 3: the attention, and he went on with that. And it

1250
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:46,640
Speaker 3: was okay up to a point. But as I explained it,

1251
01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:52,800
Speaker 3: you know, I was above board, fully transparent about the process.

1252
01:26:53,280 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 3: These were the same six women. You know, the process

1253
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 3: of high definition at the time, it's like air ring

1254
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 3: each time. So whereas you thought that was you know,

1255
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 3: different people, it was the same people dressed different. Yeah,

1256
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:18,320
Speaker 3: if we had.

1257
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:20,600
Speaker 2: It looked like there was forty two billion women. This

1258
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:23,960
Speaker 2: I was like pre CGI days of you guys in Times.

1259
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 3: Square exactly in that process. But you know, there were

1260
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 3: three and and and when I say three, I'm saying

1261
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:37,920
Speaker 3: three as it appeared to be. Uh. I would say

1262
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 3: Caucasian for lack of a better description. But they were

1263
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:45,880
Speaker 3: not all like all Anglo Saxon Caucasian, you know, No,

1264
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 3: it was.

1265
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 2: It was a vast array of women. But that was

1266
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:51,720
Speaker 2: definitely the first time that we just saw, at least

1267
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 2: in black videos variety, breaking out of the mold. I mean,

1268
01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:58,639
Speaker 2: you guys broke speaking of breaking out the mold. Oh god,

1269
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 2: I'm about to forget. Can you you please give me

1270
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 2: the genesis of what we effectually referred to as the

1271
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 2: cameo haircut.

1272
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 4: The cameo haircut and it red the red cor and

1273
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:15,639
Speaker 4: John Paul was was is that John Paul the design

1274
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 4: that Do.

1275
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 2: You still have that cup?

1276
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 3: Uh? Yes, yes, so let me wash that show life.

1277
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:27,600
Speaker 3: But imagine when it was to me the day of

1278
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 3: the shooting, word up and and uh, I was you

1279
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 3: guy had this box he just put up on the counter.

1280
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:35,719
Speaker 3: I was in line with everyone else to get whatever

1281
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 3: I was supposed to wear, and I took it in

1282
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:39,840
Speaker 3: a dressure and I said, man, look over what Toys

1283
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 3: wants me to wear? Man? And then they were like,

1284
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,960
Speaker 3: oh man, that's great, black room balls out, let's go

1285
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:50,680
Speaker 3: for it. It wasn't day. It wasn't the day for

1286
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:54,160
Speaker 3: me to say I'm not wearing that thing, you know

1287
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 3: what I mean. It wasn't the day we were shooting.

1288
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 3: It was our first day of shooting. We had we

1289
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 3: had work to do. But there was a time when

1290
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:08,760
Speaker 3: all of our outfits had cups on them. Call them

1291
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:12,479
Speaker 3: cod pieces is what we call them. And Bernard Johnson,

1292
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 3: God bless him. You know, he was the wardrobe guy

1293
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 3: in New York. I mean at the time, you know,

1294
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 3: you always dreamed and said, man, when we make it,

1295
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 3: we're definitely going to go to Bernard. And that's what happened.

1296
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:27,840
Speaker 3: Occasionally aware it if I feel like it, If I don't,

1297
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:33,800
Speaker 3: I won't and and and it's okay. You know the haircut.

1298
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 3: I had a friend girl, uh named Tracy Johns. She

1299
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 3: did She's got to have it with Spike Lee the

1300
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:44,880
Speaker 3: very first hit.

1301
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Tracy Camilla John's.

1302
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:50,360
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, that's right. That was a very close friend

1303
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 3: of mine, and she told me about this, uh these

1304
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:59,160
Speaker 3: barbers that immigrated here from Italy on south of Houston,

1305
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:02,599
Speaker 3: and I told her to take me down and she did.

1306
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:08,799
Speaker 3: And and you know, I created this, this thing that

1307
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 3: genesis I guess would have been Grace Jones and a

1308
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 3: couple of other things I saw. I made it work.

1309
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:21,719
Speaker 3: And next thing I know, people from Africa is calling

1310
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 3: and telling me that they have the haircut and others.

1311
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 3: And I've heard people actually lie about it, you know,

1312
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 3: some some people that you've always considered close. But I

1313
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 3: figured if it was that important to to to say that,

1314
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:40,679
Speaker 3: be it far from me to dispute that. I wouldn't

1315
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 3: want attention that way. You know what I mean, Guys.

1316
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 6: This is weird because I am actually the guy who

1317
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:55,639
Speaker 6: invented that haircut. So say what you want, but I'm

1318
01:30:55,640 --> 01:30:56,360
Speaker 6: claiming it.

1319
01:30:56,760 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 2: That's how long was it before? Like you got a

1320
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 2: rocket with confidence? But I mean that was definitely a

1321
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:08,760
Speaker 2: statement haircut that that was an instant street hit. But

1322
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:11,120
Speaker 2: I mean at the time, did you feel like, wait

1323
01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 2: a minute, what's you know? This is the anti Afro

1324
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:16,439
Speaker 2: Did you did you have any idea that you were

1325
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 2: actually establishing like the black barbera good shot.

1326
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 3: You know what? It was cute, it was I had

1327
01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 3: I was tired of dreads, and I thought it would

1328
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:32,840
Speaker 3: have been less labor intensive, and actually it was more. Yeah,

1329
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:36,320
Speaker 3: it's more yes, you know for you, you know you're

1330
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 3: you're twisting and twisting every time. You know you're twisting

1331
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 3: without even realizing that's what you're doing. And so I

1332
01:31:43,160 --> 01:31:46,480
Speaker 3: wanted to create a haircut that was less labor intensive,

1333
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 3: and I haven't found it yet. Regardless of what style

1334
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 3: it is, it's going to require attention and and that's

1335
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 3: just the way it is. You're not going to escape

1336
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:04,720
Speaker 3: the black hair Curt.

1337
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 2: What I want to ask you is, for a lot

1338
01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:13,280
Speaker 2: of your contemporaries, embracing hip hop was a hard transition

1339
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:16,200
Speaker 2: to do, and it would have been very easy for

1340
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:18,880
Speaker 2: you to judge it or look down on it or

1341
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 2: be condescending. But from the gate, not only did you

1342
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:27,200
Speaker 2: embrace hip hop, but you did in a way that

1343
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:32,080
Speaker 2: didn't seem corny or condescending or like trying to jump

1344
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 2: on a bandwagon, like you know you rhyming on She's strange?

1345
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 1: Is any rhyming on word up?

1346
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I mean word up is a new

1347
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:45,040
Speaker 2: Jack swing song. So can you just talk about like

1348
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:49,360
Speaker 2: your feelings of hip hop and how you know you

1349
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 2: embraced it without like because most it's very unusual for

1350
01:32:53,640 --> 01:33:00,200
Speaker 2: people to just be open to something and and and

1351
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:01,960
Speaker 2: not run away from it, like a lot of your

1352
01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 2: contemporaries were.

1353
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:06,120
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I don't know what it was for them,

1354
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 3: but I don't think we consciously made it an issue

1355
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:16,720
Speaker 3: when it came to music. What I enjoyed about the

1356
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 3: movement called hip hop was the simplicity of the drum

1357
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 3: beat and the simplicity of what was going on with

1358
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 3: the bass for the most part. And I felt that

1359
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:39,520
Speaker 3: was that was a signature that could not be denied

1360
01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:47,280
Speaker 3: or could not get old, because that beat was what

1361
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 3: made it what it was, and whatever happened within that

1362
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 3: structure was always interesting. You know, Funk is what it is.

1363
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:04,040
Speaker 3: You can have a funky ballad as much as you

1364
01:34:04,120 --> 01:34:09,200
Speaker 3: can have a funky, up tempo thing, but there's no mistake.

1365
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 3: You're gonna bob your head if it's happening, you're gonna

1366
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:14,840
Speaker 3: be in it. And once you're in it, you're in it.

1367
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 3: You know what it is from that point forward.

1368
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:20,800
Speaker 2: So it didn't make you feel weird when like a

1369
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:24,200
Speaker 2: guy like Blue Sala says, you know, Bobby Brown's leaving

1370
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:29,800
Speaker 2: new edition. You know he produces record because like, you know,

1371
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:33,120
Speaker 2: the songs you were doing on that record, although not

1372
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 2: it's definitely pretty new jack swing.

1373
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:36,960
Speaker 1: Like one of them joints.

1374
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:39,719
Speaker 2: He does a beatbox breakdown and a wrap break which

1375
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:43,320
Speaker 2: again was very unusual for nineteen eighty six. Right, it

1376
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:46,559
Speaker 2: was ahead of its time. So right, like, even working

1377
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 2: with Bobby Brown, what was that experience?

1378
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:50,840
Speaker 3: Like, it was cool? You know, Bobby and I we

1379
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:55,760
Speaker 3: talked about that not long ago. You know, Bobby was

1380
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:58,679
Speaker 3: going through a lot of changes. And that's how when

1381
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 3: I introduced Teddy to m c A over there where

1382
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 3: Jered Busby was, you know, and Jered Busby and little Silas,

1383
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 3: I believe, uh huh and uh. And I felt that

1384
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 3: Teddy had some things that would work well for for

1385
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 3: for Bobby and the rest is history.

1386
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:22,679
Speaker 2: So you made that connection.

1387
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:23,080
Speaker 1: Wow.

1388
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 3: And then that studio, I'll put that studio on the map.

1389
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 3: When I first walked out there, they had one room

1390
01:35:29,280 --> 01:35:32,320
Speaker 3: on the eighth floor and the Harrison sixteen.

1391
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:35,920
Speaker 1: Track board, the one in Atlanta, No, the one in

1392
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 1: New York.

1393
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:44,160
Speaker 3: Oh quai, Yeah, Loune Salas, who on the place. They

1394
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:47,800
Speaker 3: heard that Larry was going to this place alone if

1395
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:52,560
Speaker 3: you didn't get out SSL board in that room. And

1396
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:55,160
Speaker 3: the next thing, next thing, I know, two weeks later

1397
01:35:55,240 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 3: there's an SSL board in there and uh lou Lou

1398
01:36:00,240 --> 01:36:05,240
Speaker 3: wanted to keep us there. It was it was crazy. Yeah,

1399
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:11,360
Speaker 3: Bobbie Brown project, Ryan Carrey, yeah, all that stuff. Yeah,

1400
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:14,559
Speaker 3: we we it was a home and the next thing,

1401
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 3: I know, there's another They added another four floors of

1402
01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 3: other studios and that's when Biggie was up there, and

1403
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:26,720
Speaker 3: you know the thing happened at that time. You don't

1404
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:27,759
Speaker 3: have to go through everything.

1405
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 2: But now we've talked about this story a lot. Yes,

1406
01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:32,519
Speaker 2: oh we know, we know.

1407
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:36,760
Speaker 3: That was the most famous corner. I know.

1408
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:39,840
Speaker 2: Even when I go there now because there's there's a

1409
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:43,640
Speaker 2: drum dealer on like the it's fifth four where I

1410
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:46,880
Speaker 2: get a lot of my vintage drums from. Oh really Yeah,

1411
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:48,960
Speaker 2: there's there's a cat up there that has like a

1412
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 2: drum shop up there, So I still go there occasionally.

1413
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:54,640
Speaker 2: There is one question I do want to know, you know,

1414
01:36:55,240 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 2: to have such a crowded space or at least in

1415
01:36:57,600 --> 01:36:58,719
Speaker 2: the time that you were there.

1416
01:36:59,400 --> 01:37:02,360
Speaker 1: I mean, now, now you know, my band is kind

1417
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:02,720
Speaker 1: of like.

1418
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:06,680
Speaker 2: One of the one of the last black bands with

1419
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:12,680
Speaker 2: a major record deal Steel, But just in general, what

1420
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:18,839
Speaker 2: bands did you respect? Like when they were on stage

1421
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 2: you're like, oh man, they're kicking ass, or like yeah, earth.

1422
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:29,720
Speaker 3: Wing a fire okay, confunction I love even today?

1423
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:35,000
Speaker 2: Or who didn't you like I'm gonna ask them full

1424
01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:35,759
Speaker 2: force questions.

1425
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:38,680
Speaker 3: Either We're gonna tell you my pet peeve. You know

1426
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:42,519
Speaker 3: some of these guys, you know, they would run out

1427
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:50,880
Speaker 3: and under shaky circumstances, go someplace and get the own

1428
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:53,000
Speaker 3: the name of the group they've been working with for

1429
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:54,640
Speaker 3: a long time, and all of a sudden they own

1430
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:57,640
Speaker 3: this name. And because they own this name now I

1431
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:00,000
Speaker 3: tell them that in the Diamond by a couple of cars.

1432
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:05,120
Speaker 3: But how about the relationship you had and and what

1433
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:10,120
Speaker 3: you all did together to make hit music? That should

1434
01:38:10,240 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 3: be the focus. Okay, not this I own the name now, Larry,

1435
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 3: So what okay? Uh? That doesn't seem to be doing

1436
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:25,519
Speaker 3: a lot for you. And what made it work was

1437
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:31,680
Speaker 3: the apparatus, chemistry, the setup that you had before. You

1438
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:36,559
Speaker 3: should be running to preserve that and working along that

1439
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 3: context because that's what worked for you.

1440
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:42,600
Speaker 4: M Oh yeah, I want to ask about before we

1441
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:45,440
Speaker 4: go our senior hall doing shunky.

1442
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that was real. That was fun. That

1443
01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:54,360
Speaker 3: was the first video I shot that uh that had

1444
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,440
Speaker 3: you know, did you sound? Actually real sound and dialogue

1445
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:01,920
Speaker 3: and you know, was in Japan and he called and

1446
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:05,120
Speaker 3: asked if I would do his chunky A and it

1447
01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:10,599
Speaker 3: was it was strange. The guy that shot Michael Jackson's thriller,

1448
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:20,280
Speaker 3: was it, John Landers? Yes, but he had an A

1449
01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:24,400
Speaker 3: D two. Anyway, A lot of the crew came from

1450
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:31,040
Speaker 3: that body of work. They were not necessarily the most

1451
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:35,559
Speaker 3: cooperative guys in the world. You know, there were things

1452
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:39,080
Speaker 3: being done that, you know, like somebody would have a

1453
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:43,479
Speaker 3: real thick cord coming across a walkway and you trip

1454
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:46,160
Speaker 3: over it and then you look back and it's not

1455
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:48,840
Speaker 3: there anymore. Then that's for you to know that that

1456
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:52,879
Speaker 3: was done for you U. So I avoided the stuff

1457
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:56,120
Speaker 3: like that. But it was a great shoot and I

1458
01:39:56,240 --> 01:39:59,320
Speaker 3: enjoyed every moment of it. The whole chunky A thing

1459
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:04,240
Speaker 3: was ISOs thing I loved because he was just a

1460
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:08,719
Speaker 3: funny guy man, that's and he was a sincere guy,

1461
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:11,719
Speaker 3: you know, he used to invite us on the set.

1462
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:15,599
Speaker 3: He'd have a nice drum set in his office and

1463
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:18,679
Speaker 3: he had, Uh, it's got Chucky in his band, wasn't it.

1464
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1465
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:28,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, played with us also, Man, I don't know how

1466
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 3: many drummers we've been through.

1467
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:32,639
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. I want to know what the firing process

1468
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:38,760
Speaker 2: was like. Uh, that wasn't too hard. You know, well,

1469
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:40,920
Speaker 2: you don't mince words. I guess no.

1470
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:44,240
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you're trying to get something done

1471
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:47,920
Speaker 3: and and it's and it's fairly simple. It's it's the

1472
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:50,760
Speaker 3: frustrating part for me is when a guy can't hear

1473
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 3: that he's losing in the pocket, or he can't hear

1474
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:58,200
Speaker 3: it himself, that is frustrating for me. But I have

1475
01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:02,400
Speaker 3: done everything. I think I've done everything I could do

1476
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:05,000
Speaker 3: to help. But if they don't have it, they don't

1477
01:41:05,000 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 3: have it. Some guys just don't have it. And rocks

1478
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:11,040
Speaker 3: rolling down a hill won't make people dance at all.

1479
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:15,280
Speaker 3: They said. The simplicity of some of the hip hop

1480
01:41:15,320 --> 01:41:19,519
Speaker 3: feels with that's all you're doing, then that works. That

1481
01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:22,280
Speaker 3: wouldn't make people want to dance because they're familiar with

1482
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:28,000
Speaker 3: that already. And and it's in time. If it's not

1483
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:29,479
Speaker 3: in time, is it music?

1484
01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:35,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, it might not be. I don't know.

1485
01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:37,040
Speaker 1: You might have to James Brown and find him.

1486
01:41:37,160 --> 01:41:39,639
Speaker 3: But yeah, and I don't know how James did that,

1487
01:41:39,720 --> 01:41:41,080
Speaker 3: but they sure had it going on.

1488
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:46,120
Speaker 2: God knows absolutely. I think I have a I think

1489
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:49,960
Speaker 2: I have an answer for finding the perfect drummer. Okay,

1490
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:52,120
Speaker 2: this is what and this is what Peter Gabriel used

1491
01:41:52,160 --> 01:41:55,640
Speaker 2: to do. He used to have a drummer, or for

1492
01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 2: studio drummers, at least he would have a drummer come in,

1493
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 2: sit behind the drum kit and just tell him to

1494
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:04,040
Speaker 2: play a song for like five minutes, and then one

1495
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:08,720
Speaker 2: by one he would take a piece away, and to

1496
01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 2: the point where he even took the high hats away.

1497
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 2: Like Peter Gabriel hated the sound of high hats and

1498
01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:17,960
Speaker 2: it forced when you're stuck with just the bare minimums,

1499
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:21,759
Speaker 2: then you're forced to just concentrate on the pocket because

1500
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:25,559
Speaker 2: you have nothing else to deal with. Which I know,

1501
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:27,600
Speaker 2: you know the Knights that I saw you guys, and

1502
01:42:27,680 --> 01:42:30,800
Speaker 2: I saw you guys doing the John Blackwell era. I

1503
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:34,760
Speaker 2: almost feel like because cats always ask like, yo, man,

1504
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:36,559
Speaker 2: how can I get cats to stay in the pocket.

1505
01:42:36,720 --> 01:42:39,599
Speaker 2: My first answer is you gotta take all their drums away,

1506
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:43,679
Speaker 2: the snare, high hat kick start there, the basic minimum,

1507
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:50,799
Speaker 2: and that's I feel like that's the answer. Cats gotta

1508
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:55,920
Speaker 2: get back and uh, you gotta it forces them to

1509
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 2: stay in the pocket. You gotta take the toys away.

1510
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 2: They do good rewarding with a high hat, you know

1511
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.

1512
01:43:05,360 --> 01:43:09,120
Speaker 3: Hat? Yeah, how about that? But man, well, how did

1513
01:43:09,160 --> 01:43:13,400
Speaker 3: you develop your pocket? When? When did that happen? When

1514
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:16,840
Speaker 3: did you notice that you had a pocket? Had to

1515
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:18,200
Speaker 3: have that pocket to play.

1516
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:24,800
Speaker 2: The thing is is that you know, growing up right,

1517
01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:29,720
Speaker 2: you know, hip hop and I were of sort of

1518
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:36,679
Speaker 2: the synergy together where not only am I studying drum

1519
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:39,160
Speaker 2: breaks that hip hop ers is sampling, but like I

1520
01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:42,479
Speaker 2: grew up with those records and my father's record collection.

1521
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:44,600
Speaker 2: You know, you had like three four thousand records in

1522
01:43:44,640 --> 01:43:48,559
Speaker 2: his collection. So I would notice that when cats wanted

1523
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:53,200
Speaker 2: to freestyle at my high school, if I were recreate

1524
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:57,639
Speaker 2: those same breaks that they heard in rap songs, that's

1525
01:43:57,640 --> 01:44:00,639
Speaker 2: when they would start to dance. And you know, and

1526
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:05,080
Speaker 2: to me, it wasn't about drum feels. It's finding the

1527
01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:11,200
Speaker 2: perfect four bars. And people don't trust the process of

1528
01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:12,760
Speaker 2: less is.

1529
01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:16,880
Speaker 1: More, and you know, I felt like my thing was

1530
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:18,520
Speaker 1: the less.

1531
01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:23,599
Speaker 3: You do, the better it is. Yeah, and you know, but.

1532
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 1: It also it also comes with time.

1533
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. Like a lot of times, especially

1534
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:31,880
Speaker 2: with black bands, when I was asking you earlier about

1535
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:36,439
Speaker 2: where did you practice? Oftentimes like church is the only

1536
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:39,760
Speaker 2: environment that they get to play, and sometimes you got

1537
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:42,760
Speaker 2: to do everything but the kitchen sink to keep your

1538
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:45,960
Speaker 2: position because there's fourteen drummers in church waiting to replace you.

1539
01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:50,920
Speaker 2: And more than that, I just I grew up with

1540
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:53,439
Speaker 2: a band leader father that would look back at you

1541
01:44:53,479 --> 01:44:56,280
Speaker 2: and find you fifty.

1542
01:44:56,080 --> 01:44:57,200
Speaker 1: Dollars if you messed up.

1543
01:44:57,280 --> 01:45:02,160
Speaker 2: So nah, I kept the pocket, Brother black Man, thank

1544
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:04,559
Speaker 2: you so much, Thank you man, I appreciate this.

1545
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:05,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1546
01:45:05,680 --> 01:45:09,120
Speaker 1: On behalf of Layah please get well and Sugar Steve.

1547
01:45:09,320 --> 01:45:12,120
Speaker 6: That that was a great interview. Thank you mister Blackman

1548
01:45:12,160 --> 01:45:14,799
Speaker 6: for your time and all that information that was amazing,

1549
01:45:14,840 --> 01:45:18,160
Speaker 6: And thank you for mentioning all the engineers also that

1550
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:19,240
Speaker 6: you worked with the time.

1551
01:45:22,120 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 2: Yo, thank you very much. On behalf of Fontigelow and

1552
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:31,400
Speaker 2: Layah and Unpaid Bill and Sugar Steve and myself quest

1553
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:34,920
Speaker 2: Love and the great Immortal Larry Blackman and all the

1554
01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:38,080
Speaker 2: members of Cameo and their forty two thousand drummers.

1555
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:40,320
Speaker 1: This is a quest love sir.

1556
01:45:41,280 --> 01:45:42,799
Speaker 2: All right, We'll see you in the next around.

1557
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:47,680
Speaker 3: Thank you all right, Bye bye.

1558
01:45:55,880 --> 01:45:56,080
Speaker 2: West.

1559
01:45:56,120 --> 01:45:58,759
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is a production iHeart Radio.

1560
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:07,480
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1561
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:09,280
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.