Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up. Trade tensions they ramp
Speaker 3: higher as US and China accused one another of violating
Speaker 3: recent agreements.
Speaker 2: If we bring you the tech impact, that's.
Speaker 3: As big tech stocks have actually been back in the
Speaker 3: driver's seat, outperforming the S and P five hundred for.
Speaker 2: Eight consecutive weeks.
Speaker 3: But Tesla is under pressure with sales falling aggressively in
Speaker 3: France to a three year low.
Speaker 2: Can musks return from.
Speaker 3: Doge turning around for first, let's checking on these markets
Speaker 3: which websaw on the day. We were in risk aversion
Speaker 3: mode a little bit earlier, and now we tread backwater
Speaker 3: to flat. Remember May was a stellar month and the
Speaker 3: Nazarck Cup nine percent for the S and P five hundred,
Speaker 3: having one of its.
Speaker 2: Best Mays in years.
Speaker 3: But we are up just a tenth of a percent
Speaker 3: as we try and shake off what is anxiety around
Speaker 3: trade tensions and we get a dose of manufacturing reality.
Speaker 3: Is manufacturing numbers come in weak. Looking at the Golden
Speaker 3: Dragon Index. This is, of course the NASA Golden Dragon.
Speaker 3: Looking at some of the tech giants in China, that
Speaker 3: too recovers up a tenth of a percent. Move on
Speaker 3: to individual movers because there are some laggards out there,
Speaker 3: and notably Tesla has been off today. More broadly, and
Speaker 3: we are going to keep a keen eye on what's
Speaker 3: happening with two point seven percent to the lower as
Speaker 3: we worry about sales in France. We'll dig into that
Speaker 3: later in the show. Byd this is the Wrong Taker.
Speaker 3: We'll bring you what bid shares have been doing. Their
Speaker 3: depository receiats have been basically trading flat, but here we
Speaker 3: have it off by about two tenths of a percent.
Speaker 2: Was lower in Chinese trading.
Speaker 3: That as the competition fierce competition is getting some criticism
Speaker 3: from the government itself and government related entities. But focusing
Speaker 3: more broadly on China, not just the EV sector, We're
Speaker 3: going to look at what it has been happening with
Speaker 3: the Golden Dragon index. Look, as we say, just recovering,
Speaker 3: but after the last three days that has been having
Speaker 3: let's call it a plummet following remarks. Now we know
Speaker 3: of President Trump saying that Beijing is violated at trade talks.
Speaker 3: More pain could be install course, as China issues its
Speaker 3: own claims that the US has preached recent deal itself grimgs.
Speaker 2: Mike Shepard joins US.
Speaker 3: Look, the tensative agreements of Switzerland are unwinding themselves somewhat.
Speaker 4: Well, they really are, Cara. We are seeing this datent
Speaker 4: that have been achieved in Geneva just a few weeks
Speaker 4: ago rapidly fade away. On Friday, we saw President Donald
Speaker 4: Trump accuse Beijing of violating the spirit of that understanding
Speaker 4: without offering too many specifics, but his trade advisor Jamison
Speaker 4: Greer helped fill in the blanks, and the US concerns
Speaker 4: seemed to center on what they see as Beijing's failure
Speaker 4: to lift barriers on exports of rare earth minerals to
Speaker 4: the US quickly enough whatever was discussed in Switzerland. On
Speaker 4: the flip side, though, we are seeing China come back
Speaker 4: very strong today accusing the US of violating its promises
Speaker 4: under that agreement with some recent steps, and we saw
Speaker 4: those with the American move to unveil new guidelines that
Speaker 4: are coming on AI chip export controls, and that included
Speaker 4: a warning to US allies against using Huawei's Ascend chip,
Speaker 4: which is a challenge of course to Nvidia. The US
Speaker 4: has also moved to restrict exports and sales of chip
Speaker 4: design software to China, which is a big deal for
Speaker 4: China's own AI and tech ambitions. And then finally the
Speaker 4: icing on the cake of course, the revocation of Chinese
Speaker 4: student visas. All of those things in China's bill of
Speaker 4: goods against the US this morning, and this raises questions
Speaker 4: about whether hjion Paying and Donald Trump will actually speak
Speaker 4: by phone as Donald Trump has said he would like
Speaker 4: to and mind.
Speaker 3: What's so notable is that two of those moves of
Speaker 3: the three that you outline completely tech focused. Is it
Speaker 3: going to be technology that remains the eye of the
Speaker 3: storm when this attack.
Speaker 4: Well, it's either the eye of the storm, Caro, or
Speaker 4: the thing that is driving the direction of the storm.
Speaker 4: Because remember this comes on top of years of escalating
Speaker 4: restrictions on exports to China imposed by the US and
Speaker 4: really also twisting allies arms to take part in those
Speaker 4: as well. Remember this is not just semiconductor exports, it's
Speaker 4: also sales of chip making machinery to Beijing. All of
Speaker 4: this is designed to curb China's ambitions in areas like
Speaker 4: artificial intelligence, and this is really starting to take a
Speaker 4: toll in a way politically between Washington and Beijing, and
Speaker 4: we're seeing tech emerge as this flashpoint and could be
Speaker 4: what unravels whatever understanding may have emerged engine Even now,
Speaker 4: there is a lot of time before the ninety day
Speaker 4: pause expires, and the two sides still could find a
Speaker 4: way back to the bargaining table and to maybe have
Speaker 4: that call between the two leaders. But right now the
Speaker 4: direction of travel is not heading in that way, at
Speaker 4: least from what we are seeing.
Speaker 3: Caro make Shepherd breaking it down, We thank you, and
Speaker 3: let's stick with how markets are reacting, but more broadly,
Speaker 3: how they should be thinking about this trade uncertainty. An
Speaker 3: expert is Eliza Toovin, managing director at Gano Global. We
Speaker 3: turn to your years of advising government, the CIA, and
Speaker 3: of course, more broadly the field of enterprise. How bad
Speaker 3: is this looking? How much we were turning to escalation now?
Speaker 5: Hi, Caroline, great to be on with you, and I
Speaker 5: agree with Michael Shepherd that the honeymoon.
Speaker 2: We saw coming out of Geneva.
Speaker 5: A few weeks ago is now shattered and we're back
Speaker 5: in this cycle of escalation between the US and China,
Speaker 5: and I agree with you that at the center of
Speaker 5: this is technology. What's interesting about China's very strenuous reaction
Speaker 5: to the US export controls on the Huawei assnship is
Speaker 5: their propaganda apparatus has long been arguing that the US
Speaker 5: export controls are ineffective and that China can work around them.
Speaker 5: But I think the level of emphasis they're putting on this,
Speaker 5: you know, the volume at which they're really screaming for
Speaker 5: these things to be removed, indicates just how effective and
Speaker 5: how painful they are on China.
Speaker 6: So we're going to be.
Speaker 5: Seeing to see, watch to see how the US reacts
Speaker 5: going forward. China is trying to press the US very
Speaker 5: hard to make more concessions. After Geneva, the tariffs came
Speaker 5: down significantly, but really at the heart of those tensions
Speaker 5: were China's export control on rare earth and then the
Speaker 5: US export controls on AI chips and related tooling.
Speaker 2: Let's go to.
Speaker 3: AI chips first before we get to rares, because there's
Speaker 3: not only the criticism coming from China but some US companies.
Speaker 3: I just think of what Jensen Wong was telling our
Speaker 3: own ed Ludlow last week how much basically we're forcing
Speaker 3: China to innovate, and how he longs to be able
Speaker 3: to access that much.
Speaker 2: Do you ever see that happening.
Speaker 5: I think it's all about this scale of compute that's needed.
Speaker 5: China can always find workarounds through smuggling, through making some
Speaker 5: of their own chips, but it's really all about scaling,
Speaker 5: and as you talk about on your show a lot,
Speaker 5: really being able to make enough chips to supply the
Speaker 5: rapidly escalating demands of compute in this age of AI
Speaker 5: is at issue, and that's where the US still has
Speaker 5: this very large.
Speaker 2: Lead just being able to scale up.
Speaker 5: So if China is able to extract any additional concessions
Speaker 5: from the US so that they can get more chips legally,
Speaker 5: that's going to help them kind.
Speaker 2: Of shrink the gap faster.
Speaker 5: However, if the US keeps these export controls in place
Speaker 5: and enforces them strictly and gets allies and partners on
Speaker 5: board on some of the tooling, some of the aspects
Speaker 5: where countries like Japan and the Netherlands and Germany are strong,
Speaker 5: then this gap between the US and China compute stance
Speaker 5: to lengthen over the coming months and years.
Speaker 3: But both sides have chips on the table here that
Speaker 3: they can play, and play hard. I was just at
Speaker 3: the Reagan National Economic Forum on Friday where there was
Speaker 3: a lot of anxiety just how confident Chinese leadership is
Speaker 3: at the moment that they too can fight back. Liza,
Speaker 3: what about the rare earth's signals? How much pain could
Speaker 3: that levee on US industry itself as well?
Speaker 5: We know that the auto manufacturers and the defense manufacturers
Speaker 5: were they came crying to the US government before the
Speaker 5: Geneva talks and said that these things are starting to
Speaker 5: impose pain and in starting to impose work stoppages, and
Speaker 5: that's something.
Speaker 2: That it's a gray rhino.
Speaker 5: I mean, the US national security establishment has known about
Speaker 5: this dependency on China for rare earth processing for years,
Speaker 5: but they haven't come up.
Speaker 2: With a solution at scale. But I think what was.
Speaker 5: Interesting over the last month is that China has broken
Speaker 5: the glass on actually using this coercive instrument. It's actually
Speaker 5: now ratcheting up pressure it. Shei Jinping has an appetite
Speaker 5: for leverage, and now that he knows he has this
Speaker 5: leverage over the US you're going to see him pushing
Speaker 5: again and again to kind of recycle this leverage and
Speaker 5: try to extract more concessions from the US. But rather
Speaker 5: than bending over and giving China more concessions, over the
Speaker 5: last couple of weeks, you've seen them doubling down with
Speaker 5: this empowered Commerce department, strengthening and broadening the export controls.
Speaker 3: So you don't expect the US to blink in this moment.
Speaker 3: What advice do you give to the private sect right
Speaker 3: now as to how tough this could get for access
Speaker 3: to RAS and indeed, in the flip side of you're
Speaker 3: a Chinese company access to US chips.
Speaker 5: Well, I think that the private sector needs to remember
Speaker 5: that this isn't just a competition about tech and trade,
Speaker 5: I mean tariffs and technolog The export controls, of course,
Speaker 5: are incredibly important to markets, but perhaps even more important
Speaker 5: is to watch the geopolitical tensions that are unfolding in
Speaker 5: the Indo Pacific around Taiwan in the South China Sea.
Speaker 5: Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, just on Saturday at the
Speaker 5: Shangri Law Forum was warning that a Taiwan crisis could
Speaker 5: be imminent, and we know that China frequently has military
Speaker 5: drills kind of these practice exercises around Taiwan and in
Speaker 5: the South China Sea, and it's had the habit lately
Speaker 5: of not announcing these in advance, so it's not giving
Speaker 5: markets heads up that these are going to happen.
Speaker 2: Why does it do that.
Speaker 5: It wants to preserve ambiguity if outside observers aren't sure
Speaker 5: if this is just a drill or if it's something
Speaker 5: more an actual rehearsal for something like a blockade. That's
Speaker 5: very worrisome because it shrinks the window of warning. And
Speaker 5: that's something that we're watching very closely at Garno Global
Speaker 5: kind of the links between these technology export controls terrors
Speaker 5: and the potential for some kind of supply chain disrupting
Speaker 5: crisis around Taiwan that could prevent the chips from getting
Speaker 5: out of Taiwan, perhaps for a couple of weeks or longer.
Speaker 3: Well, that's crucial to our audience, So thanks for making
Speaker 3: that link. Visitobin of course, managing director at Garno Global.
Speaker 3: Great to have some time with you. Coming up, let's
Speaker 3: talk about chips more. But Broadcomm's results this week, they're
Speaker 3: likely to actually show ai demand is still booming. We
Speaker 3: can talk about what's expected, how it could impact the
Speaker 3: wider market. This is bloombag technology. Let's talk about how
Speaker 3: the same tech giants that contributed to the S and
Speaker 3: P five pounders decline in April, they are now driving
Speaker 3: the recovery in US equities. Just taking video and put
Speaker 3: a bow on a better than expected earning season for
Speaker 3: big tech last week by delivering a strong outlook for
Speaker 3: revenue despite US restrictions on sales of its to China.
Speaker 2: This is as we expect.
Speaker 3: Earning some Braolcom this week, you see the shares are
Speaker 3: also trading higher.
Speaker 2: Lue Meg's run.
Speaker 3: Bastantaker has been writing about how the Magnificent Seven in
Speaker 3: particular have helped bounce back of our lows some phenomenal
Speaker 3: recovery numbers.
Speaker 7: Hey, thanks for having me. So this earning season was
Speaker 7: a real test for big tech, especially given just how
Speaker 7: uncertain the backdrop has become, given tariffs, given all sorts
Speaker 7: of geopolitical tensions, given concerns about AI spending in the
Speaker 7: ROI from AI, and I would say that broadly speaking,
Speaker 7: this group passed with flying colors. I'd say the notable
Speaker 7: exception was Apple, which is dealing with a number of
Speaker 7: its own sort of idiosyncratic issues. But the major companies
Speaker 7: like Microsoft, Nvidia, Meta Alphabet quite strong across the board,
Speaker 7: showing pretty positive trends.
Speaker 6: And these are all companies.
Speaker 7: That have allowed the market to really recover off the
Speaker 7: low that we saw early in April.
Speaker 3: It's interesting that we're not back to our record highs.
Speaker 3: We're actually inching in on them.
Speaker 8: Ryan.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, looking at the S and P five hundred, the
Speaker 3: valuation story, that's starting to get a little dicey, right
Speaker 3: when you're looking at magnificent seven names.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I'd say these names got pretty cheap by
Speaker 7: a lot of metrics in the whole tear off cell
Speaker 7: off in early April. They have come back quite dramatically,
Speaker 7: I think in videos up something like forty five percent
Speaker 7: or so since that low. So these are pretty remarkable
Speaker 7: gains and it has come back in the valuation. But
Speaker 7: I would say sort of the countering argument to this
Speaker 7: is growth is expected to remain pretty strong for a
Speaker 7: lot of these companies, and if you look at something
Speaker 7: like the PEG ratio, they are all treating at fairly
Speaker 7: modest ratios on that metric. So the valuations have come
Speaker 7: back some but the growth that was just affirmed in
Speaker 7: these most recent reports also pretty positive.
Speaker 3: We're looking at the moment of how pricey perhaps they
Speaker 3: are from a price to forward looking earnings perspective at
Speaker 3: least Umeg's ran for Selca.
Speaker 2: It's great to have you on as always.
Speaker 3: Let's get you even more of a take here and
Speaker 3: particularly on AI demand what it means for certain companies
Speaker 3: about to give us their numbers. Angelo Zeno's with us
Speaker 3: VPN senior equity analyst over at CFRA Research. We think,
Speaker 3: think about how in Nvidia helped the market recover. We
Speaker 3: saw the numbers looking good. What about Broadcom as well?
Speaker 3: We're still going to get AI optimism there.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so thanks for having me, Caroline, and I think, yeah,
Speaker 9: to your point, I think it's going to be very strong.
Speaker 9: We're looking for top line growth of about twenty percent
Speaker 9: here for the for the April quarter. And listen, I
Speaker 9: think when you kind of look overall the trends that
Speaker 9: we've seen here over the last couple couple of weeks
Speaker 9: or you know, since Q one earning season really starting
Speaker 9: with you know, Alphabet and Microsoft at the start of
Speaker 9: earning season up until in video last week, the trend
Speaker 9: on the compute side of things is I think much
Speaker 9: stronger than anybody had anticipated, and really something that Gentsen
Speaker 9: Wong last year, really last week really pounded the table on.
Speaker 9: So when you kind of think about the drivers here
Speaker 9: specifically for you know, the AI semi names here, over
Speaker 9: the next couple of years, it really is going to
Speaker 9: be tied to compute and the higher demand for computer
Speaker 9: is going to drive higher capital spending plans, right, which
Speaker 9: is what we saw Q one earning season. So we
Speaker 9: think those trends remain intact here. For broadcams specifically, they've
Speaker 9: got to buy a sixty forty split in semis versus software,
Speaker 9: So the semi side will continue to drive that demand.
Speaker 9: But software shouldn't be ignored because the profitability there and
Speaker 9: growth continues to be very good.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're expecting strong things from broad Comm you too.
Speaker 3: Look your top semi conductive names are in Video and Broadcom, AMD, Marvell.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at how much some of those names have
Speaker 3: already driven the S and P five hundred recovery. A
Speaker 3: great chart from Ryan's story is that in Vidio makes
Speaker 3: up twelve percent. Basically, the S and P five hundred
Speaker 3: is rebound since April, but swiftly after them was Microsoft
Speaker 3: that you named as being a winner of late broadcom
Speaker 3: some five percent.
Speaker 2: But is the valuation getting a little too.
Speaker 3: Rich now given the amount of geopolitical anxiety we're just
Speaker 3: talking about with Eliza Tobin.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, I think as far as the valuation
Speaker 9: is concerned, you know, it's it's not as attractive as
Speaker 9: it was four to six weeks ago. But I will
Speaker 9: tell you that the valuations has just got you know,
Speaker 9: just hit you know, basement level values. I mean, you
Speaker 9: were talking about Nvidia at one point trading about seventeen
Speaker 9: eighteen times on our twenty twenty six estimate.
Speaker 10: They're now try closer.
Speaker 9: To about twenty four to twenty five times on twenty
Speaker 9: twenty six expectations. And I will tell you this, the
Speaker 9: visibility again is improving here has improved of the last
Speaker 9: couple of weeks, whether it be on the trade side
Speaker 9: of things, improving commentary on trade, or whether it be
Speaker 9: you know, just from the reiteration in terms of capex
Speaker 9: spens plans for some of these hyperscalers. Now, I will say,
Speaker 9: as far as you know what to look out for
Speaker 9: here on the geopolitical side of things, A lot is
Speaker 9: going There are a lot of moving parts here. Over
Speaker 9: the next couple of weeks, obviously we want to hear
Speaker 9: about the US China discussions. But as far as semis
Speaker 9: are pincerned, there's a two thirty two semiconductor investigation that
Speaker 9: is ongoing right now. We expect to get more clarity
Speaker 9: in terms of what is what that's going to look
Speaker 9: like as far as tariffs are concerned here over the
Speaker 9: next two months or so. So it's waiting simo. But
Speaker 9: our view you're going to see a permanent tariff on
Speaker 9: the semiconductor industry when that gets unveiled. Our base case
Speaker 9: right now is about a twenty five percent tariff.
Speaker 3: What about the smartphone industry, because actually Apple has contributed
Speaker 3: to the reprieve and the S and P five hundred,
Speaker 3: it's one of your top names for hardware. But boy,
Speaker 3: we're wondering whether it's going to get individual tariffs of
Speaker 3: twenty five percent landed on it, not to mention maybe
Speaker 3: Samsung gets the same though.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so you know, we're not looking for an individual
Speaker 9: tariff on that side of things. But our view here
Speaker 9: is they you know, they fall under the national security
Speaker 9: umbre umbrella of the two thirty two semiconductor investigation, similar
Speaker 9: to many other hardware names that are right now exempt from.
Speaker 10: A lot of the tariffs.
Speaker 9: But that said, if we're assuming something along the lines
Speaker 9: of a twenty five percent, you know, based tariff or
Speaker 9: two thirty two, that would imply that Apple probably has
Speaker 9: to increase the price of its iPhone seventeen this fall.
Speaker 9: Our view is probably along the lines of at least
Speaker 9: fifty dollars or so. So again, we have to wait
Speaker 9: see to see how all this stuff really plays itself
Speaker 9: out on the geopolitical side of things, But our view
Speaker 9: is there's going to be some sort of permanent tariff
Speaker 9: that goes into effect for the hardware companies and specifically Apple,
Speaker 9: and Apple we think is best positioned to offset some
Speaker 9: of those higher tariffs because of their brand recognition and
Speaker 9: because of their pricing power.
Speaker 3: So angelo, if an investor doesn't have the exposure they'd
Speaker 3: like in these names, should they buy at this point?
Speaker 9: I mean, I think that's a good question. You know,
Speaker 9: we look at it right now in the sense that
Speaker 9: we're looking more for a near term, you know, digestion period.
Speaker 9: The dangerous thing with that is you just don't know
Speaker 9: what you're going to get in a day in, day
Speaker 9: out basis because of the geopolitical environment right now. So
Speaker 9: if you don't own any of these names right now,
Speaker 9: our view is you do want to buy some of
Speaker 9: these AI semi oriented names because they.
Speaker 10: Are going to really drive the.
Speaker 9: Earnings potential for the tech sector here over the next
Speaker 9: two to three years, specifically Nvidia and Broadcom, as well
Speaker 9: as some of the others smaller names, but Nvidia and
Speaker 9: Broadcom would kind of be two of the top names
Speaker 9: with the best visibility out there. And even if you
Speaker 9: see some of these negative headwinds will whether it be
Speaker 9: tied to the two thirty two semi conductor investigation or
Speaker 9: something on the trade side of things. Ultimately we think
Speaker 9: this stuff works itself out and the earnings potential is
Speaker 9: so great that you know, two to three years down
Speaker 9: the road, these stocks should be significantly higher than where.
Speaker 10: They are now.
Speaker 2: We get those earnings for Broadcom.
Speaker 3: On Thursday after the bell, Angelo Zino a busy week
Speaker 3: ahead cfr A Research.
Speaker 2: We thank you.
Speaker 3: Samsung well, it's nearing a wide ranging deal to invest
Speaker 3: in Perplexity AI and put search technology from the AI
Speaker 3: startup at the very forefront of the South Korean company's devices.
Speaker 3: It's according to people familiar, the two companies are already
Speaker 3: in talks to pre load Perplexities app and Assistant on
Speaker 3: upcoming Samsung devices who like Seth Figeman joins us for
Speaker 3: more on the story, and we knew that they struck
Speaker 3: the still with Motorola Samsung ongoing conversation. How deeply into
Speaker 3: twine will they become?
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think this is even more expensive than Mogo Motorola.
Speaker 11: It's about them being preloaded on devices, which matters a lot,
Speaker 11: But with Samsung, it's also integrating into its assystem, product,
Speaker 11: into its browser, and of course just preloading on Samsung devices. Generally,
Speaker 11: if you're Google right now, I think if they're setting
Speaker 11: up a little bit straighter right now, there's a big
Speaker 11: difference between being preloaded and the default service, which is
Speaker 11: what Google has paid for for years and quite expensively.
Speaker 11: But this is a step in that direction, and given
Speaker 11: the anti trust scrutiny on Google, I would be a
Speaker 11: little bit concerned.
Speaker 3: I mean, of course that anti trust discussion of what
Speaker 3: ultimately might be the policies they have to enact to
Speaker 3: appease the judge.
Speaker 2: I mean that wrapped up on Friday.
Speaker 3: Analysts are deeply concerned about what all of this means
Speaker 3: for alphabet How much does this also depend on Perplexity
Speaker 3: getting some money from Samsung.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think that's part of the broader tie up here.
Speaker 11: So we have previously reported that Perplexity is close to
Speaker 11: raising about five hundred million dollars like a fourteen billion
Speaker 11: dollar valuation. Samsung could be one of the larger investors
Speaker 11: in that deal, and that strikes as part of a
Speaker 11: much larger tie up between these two companies.
Speaker 3: How does that fourteen billion dollars stack up? Because like
Speaker 3: we've become some numb to these.
Speaker 2: Figures because it's the enormous over to open hahard.
Speaker 11: It's one of the largest AI players out there right now,
Speaker 11: but it's still this is a really competitive environment. Not
Speaker 11: only are they going up against Google, but going up
Speaker 11: against open ai and others who are moving into real
Speaker 11: time search but being more deeply intrigated into devices than
Speaker 11: millions of people use. That is a really big leg
Speaker 11: up in that race.
Speaker 3: And people who loved Perplexity in many ways it is
Speaker 3: one of the first that offered you where the information
Speaker 3: was coming from but they've had their own copyright issues.
Speaker 6: As well, Right, that's true.
Speaker 11: I think Perplexity's main thing that was that they have
Speaker 11: great design. You know, it's not so much that they
Speaker 11: built a better model than Opennie are Google, but they
Speaker 11: figure out how to package it in a really compelling way.
Speaker 11: That seems to be drawing fans not just from consumers
Speaker 11: but from the hardware companies.
Speaker 2: How soon could this all be announced?
Speaker 11: As soon as this year for devices?
Speaker 6: Maybe into next year?
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll keep an eye out for the unfolding events.
Speaker 3: Seth Nigaman, We appreciate it. Welcome back to BlueBag Technology
Speaker 3: and Karen Hydeer New York. A quick check on these markets,
Speaker 3: because boy May was Estella month for the NASTAG.
Speaker 2: Today we bounce off of our lows, but the anxiety remains.
Speaker 2: What about the pulling back from.
Speaker 3: China and the US in terms of those tentative agreements
Speaker 3: made in Switzerland, The progress seems to be on the line.
Speaker 3: Many are worrying about that at the moment. Dig into
Speaker 3: some of the names. I want to shine light on
Speaker 3: one Chinese EV player. Of course, we've got to keep
Speaker 3: an iron byd It's depository receipts doing better than they
Speaker 3: did trade in Hong Kong at least, but under pressure
Speaker 3: is indeed, the Chinese government tries to hint at byd
Speaker 3: that you're competing too hard in our country, you're racing
Speaker 3: to the border in bottom in terms of price, or
Speaker 3: to boost your numbers.
Speaker 2: Will they pull back a little bit from that?
Speaker 3: But Tesla of by three percent, this is the numbers
Speaker 3: are woeful for sales in May. In France they're done
Speaker 3: sixty seven percent, just seven hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2: One cars in the whole of France.
Speaker 3: All of this comes though, as Elon Musk officially departs
Speaker 3: the White House after running those over there, at least
Speaker 3: as many would say he was running it where Bush Securities,
Speaker 3: managing direct to Dan I is writing this weekend that
Speaker 3: this is quote music to the ears of Tesla shareholders.
Speaker 3: With a crucial few months ahead, Dan Eyes joins us now,
Speaker 3: and boy, those French numbers really show what the crucial
Speaker 3: few months mean.
Speaker 2: Can Elon steer this the other way?
Speaker 10: Okay?
Speaker 8: I mean, obviously the leader's back, right, I mean, Musk
Speaker 8: is Tesla Tesla's Musk. But I believe it's really about
Speaker 8: autonomous and I think as we go into Austin in June,
Speaker 8: you go into the robotics future, that's going to be
Speaker 8: keep part of the value of Tesla's how we get
Speaker 8: to a two.
Speaker 10: Trillion dollar valuation. But and you'll quit Europe.
Speaker 8: You look at us Juku at China and I think
Speaker 8: Musk is going to start to turn that around.
Speaker 10: And I think that's where investors are starting to factor
Speaker 10: in you.
Speaker 8: And I'm gonna say, what's happened next month or two,
Speaker 8: But a rebound second half of the year.
Speaker 3: Okay, so stomach for the near term. These probably remaining
Speaker 3: poor numbers. The new refreshed model. Why isn't cutting it?
Speaker 3: It seems it is more the political backlash. But you say,
Speaker 3: ultimately the technology is going to outweigh a brand issue
Speaker 3: that they've had.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, look me, and you've talked about it before.
Speaker 8: I believe ninety percent of the future value is autonomous
Speaker 8: and robotics. BI look in terms of margins delivery growth,
Speaker 8: that's obviously very important to near turn numbers, but I
Speaker 8: do believe streets factoring, and you start to see a
Speaker 8: rebound second half of the year, you ever recommitted mass.
Speaker 10: Queerly and I think when you look to the future, I.
Speaker 8: Mean this long with Nvidio, I believe the most disruptive
Speaker 8: technology companies in the world. And then who's driving the
Speaker 8: software piece of course it's pound tier.
Speaker 3: But why is Tesla clearly going to be such a
Speaker 3: leadership in autonomous when Weimo is already busy doing it
Speaker 3: And there is a different difference in the technology here
Speaker 3: with Weimo going all in on lidar and a very
Speaker 3: different tactic coming from elon Musk and Tesla.
Speaker 10: Yeah, look, Willim will clearly head start. I think Wimo
Speaker 10: they're going to be at the.
Speaker 8: Kids table relatively Cassela in the com years because of
Speaker 8: the scale and scope.
Speaker 10: Waymos in four cities, two hundred thirty thousand hour cars.
Speaker 8: Like in other words, when I work out over the
Speaker 8: coming years, I think you, look, this is going to
Speaker 8: be dominated by Tesla in terms of cyber cabs.
Speaker 10: It all starts.
Speaker 8: Obviously in the next few weeks in Austin, but no
Speaker 8: one will match the global scale and scope of Musk
Speaker 8: and Tesla.
Speaker 3: So what milestones in Austin, for example, do they need
Speaker 3: to meet? Ed Ludlow with that great reporting out last
Speaker 3: week that June twelfth is going to be the date
Speaker 3: we're anticipating for it to already make actionable what they've
Speaker 3: been trialing on the roads thus far. What do they
Speaker 3: need to meet, how do they need to show off
Speaker 3: in the technology to work?
Speaker 8: Look the interventions, right, I mean, just showing that this
Speaker 8: is something that is ready for prime time, because this
Speaker 8: is just the beginning of ultimately going to be fifteen
Speaker 8: to twenty twenty five cities over the next year. And
Speaker 8: I think this is just really kind of way in
Speaker 8: the ground from technology perspective, showing where a Tesla is
Speaker 8: going to get to them when I believe, look, Weimo
Speaker 8: is going to be successful and that's going to be
Speaker 8: a key sort of player. But in terms of the
Speaker 8: global vision, who's really going to dominate? I believe it's
Speaker 8: Tesla and autonomous.
Speaker 2: And is it a cybercab that dominates?
Speaker 3: Is it the fact that the Tesla's are already out
Speaker 3: on the road and they become the autonomous vehicles they
Speaker 3: are the ones that we don't use ourselves but lend
Speaker 3: out to the ecosystem.
Speaker 10: Well, yeah, I mean it's first of all, it's data driven.
Speaker 10: I mean, by next sure you have ten.
Speaker 8: Million vehicles, you know, in terms of teslas that have
Speaker 8: been sold data driven, and but I do believe cybercabs
Speaker 8: when you think about the autonomous piece, that's going to
Speaker 8: be so important.
Speaker 10: But then also it's about FSD.
Speaker 8: I mean FSD penetration could go from fifteen percent to
Speaker 8: fifty percent. Think about the margin, the software, the uplift
Speaker 8: that that's going to lead to test and that's why
Speaker 8: I believe they are going into their biggest chapter of growth.
Speaker 10: And that's why also it's just.
Speaker 8: So important that must laser focus on Tesla on those
Speaker 8: days in Trump White House hour rearview mirror.
Speaker 3: And you think he will be laser focused on Tesla
Speaker 3: because he's also saying I've got to be laser focused
Speaker 3: on X. He's also remaining very committed and focused on
Speaker 3: SpaceX as well, and not to mention the XAI getting
Speaker 3: woven into X at the moment.
Speaker 8: Look, it's all part of it, obviously, the broader mask ecosystem,
Speaker 8: but the hearts and lungs, the golden goose continues to
Speaker 8: be Tesla, and I think must recognize is now is
Speaker 8: the time, especially given autonomous and robiotics without actually with optimists.
Speaker 3: Tell us the two trillion dollar valuation and how you
Speaker 3: actually got there.
Speaker 2: From a number's perspective.
Speaker 8: Look when I look at when I look at autonomous
Speaker 8: and you start to model out what could maybe twenty
Speaker 8: percent of vehicles being autonomous, you're essentially looking three four
Speaker 8: hours of earnings eventually is going to be thirteen to
Speaker 8: fifteen hours earnings. So the whole math of the Tesla
Speaker 8: valuation is going to drastically change.
Speaker 10: And that's all about, like I believe, from an AI.
Speaker 8: Perspective, one of probably the most undervalued pure players in
Speaker 8: the market is Tesla.
Speaker 10: Now, of course Nvidia, poun Teer.
Speaker 8: You know how the hyperscalers, Microsoft and others continue to
Speaker 8: front and center.
Speaker 10: But you know, Tesla more and more is going to
Speaker 10: prove that when you especially in.
Speaker 8: The physical AI play in terms of our time as robotics,
Speaker 8: they're gonna be front and center.
Speaker 3: At the moment, it's a one trillion dollar market capitalization,
Speaker 3: How quickly does this two trillion become a reality?
Speaker 10: I think next twelve to eighteen months, and I look
Speaker 10: and I think.
Speaker 2: That's going to double in that amount of time.
Speaker 8: That's our view, and I think it could be conservative
Speaker 8: relative to as is all plays out, because I think
Speaker 8: again again, Musk and Tesla underestimated. Next week you're buying
Speaker 8: you know called you know, wait next week and when
Speaker 8: this actually the vision starts, it's going.
Speaker 10: To kick off. I think it's the golden age at Tesla.
Speaker 3: You are the highest price target five hundred, few bone
Speaker 3: securities below you four seventy, but the price targets go
Speaker 3: all all the way down to just I mean JP
Speaker 3: Morgan on one hundred and fifteen. So from what is
Speaker 3: it that others aren't getting here? Is it just the
Speaker 3: scale of the ambition, is it the execution? What is
Speaker 3: it when you're sitting around the table with other analysts
Speaker 3: and they're like no, Dan, and you're like no.
Speaker 10: Yes, well yeah, I mean to that point.
Speaker 8: I mean if you go back over the last five, seven,
Speaker 8: eight years and the Neva underestimated tassa musk every time, right,
Speaker 8: So I mean many thought that the chance of them
Speaker 8: actually coming out with an EV was unrealistic, the chance
Speaker 8: of them scaling to over a million vehicles, so we're
Speaker 8: just again again. I think they continue to view this
Speaker 8: as an automobile company. It's a disruptive technology player, one
Speaker 8: of the best in the world along with Nvidian.
Speaker 10: Of course, Pound.
Speaker 3: Tier Therefore we're looking forward to the global story here.
Speaker 2: Does this have to be executed in the US?
Speaker 3: What about over in China at the moment where we're
Speaker 3: just seeing the level of price competition and indeed the
Speaker 3: commitment that we're starting see from BYD also into autonomous.
Speaker 10: Look, China is a key market.
Speaker 8: I mean, you're over forty percent of deliveries that come
Speaker 8: out of trying to keep up from a supply perspective.
Speaker 10: But it's also why too, It's it's.
Speaker 8: Important more and more must that he distanced himself in
Speaker 8: terms of from Trump White House. Now start to play
Speaker 8: that ten percent politician ninety percent CEO.
Speaker 10: You know what we see from Apple China is.
Speaker 8: Key and I think we're going to continue to see
Speaker 8: now rebound China and Autonomous Test is going to be
Speaker 8: a major player in that market along with BYD and others.
Speaker 3: And then let's talk robotics, because I'm hearing more and
Speaker 3: more about how robotics is going to be the next
Speaker 3: area of key growth. How quickly does the optimist become
Speaker 3: the two trellion dollar driver.
Speaker 8: And remember we're not even really factoring that in so
Speaker 8: it speaks to our view like when you look at
Speaker 8: optimists and as that plays out, robotics potential could even be.
Speaker 10: Bigger than autonomous And.
Speaker 8: I think when it comes to physical AI, it's Tesla
Speaker 8: and a Video that are leading that. And I think
Speaker 8: is that all this is going to get in the
Speaker 8: next twelve, eighteen, twenty four months.
Speaker 10: It's the reality, right.
Speaker 8: The scale and scope is something that tests has a
Speaker 8: huge advantage of. And that's why I think optimist is
Speaker 8: something that again I think investors Wall Street massively underestimating,
Speaker 8: but they will be proven wrong.
Speaker 10: I think as this all plays out, how much.
Speaker 3: Is supply chain going to be a bottleneck kit because
Speaker 3: we keep talking time and time again about the rare
Speaker 3: earth control that China has. I mean, the fact that
Speaker 3: Tesla is so present in China from a supply side perspective,
Speaker 3: is that a winning formula?
Speaker 10: Oh?
Speaker 8: With that, I mean used now that I think that's
Speaker 8: the key, right, Like having such a big presence, and
Speaker 8: of course Musk has very good relationship in Beijing, you know,
Speaker 8: in terms of their footprint, that is very important.
Speaker 10: It gives them a huge advantage.
Speaker 8: And also I think it speaks to the timing, especially
Speaker 8: in this US China negotiations to further and further must
Speaker 8: distance themselves from Trump in the White House. I think
Speaker 8: is important, especially when it plays to what's happened China.
Speaker 3: I'm going to end on Apple because you were just
Speaker 3: talking about other companies that have been owning the space
Speaker 3: Palanteer of course being one that you keep mentioning within software.
Speaker 2: But what about the future of.
Speaker 3: Apple right now from a supply chain perspective, from a
Speaker 3: geopolitical perspective, because it seems as though, well Tim Cook
Speaker 3: needs to be a little bit more politician right now too.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think there's no better CEO in the world
Speaker 8: that can navigate it.
Speaker 2: He's not gone very well so far, I see.
Speaker 8: I would disagree to the point that he's been able
Speaker 8: to navigate to India, which is an actually huge.
Speaker 10: Part of the pokem. We puts him in a lot
Speaker 10: there and negotiating position.
Speaker 8: And also like, look, the chances of iPhones coming to
Speaker 8: the US, we continue to us unrealistic. In last you
Speaker 8: want have thirty five hundred our iPhone and Cook's another one,
Speaker 8: Like there's an understanding.
Speaker 10: Okay, they might have been laid to the game, but.
Speaker 8: The consumer AI revolution comes to Cooper Tino.
Speaker 10: You'll start to see that next Week WWDC.
Speaker 8: I view that as a very important event that starts
Speaker 8: this next chapter.
Speaker 3: Dan, I've of webush some of the biggest price targets
Speaker 3: out there, for Tesla and for Apple.
Speaker 2: It's always great to have you on the show. Thank
Speaker 2: you very much.
Speaker 3: Coming up, tech has become a major economic driver for
Speaker 3: New York's economy, and a new campaign is.
Speaker 2: Celebrating just that.
Speaker 3: We'll have more on the industry's impact and what's expected
Speaker 3: from New York Tech Week as a bluembag Technology.
Speaker 2: Time Now for Talking Tech.
Speaker 3: First up Byron Allen, while he's hired Molist to find
Speaker 3: buyers for twenty eight local TV stations his company owns
Speaker 3: now this comes as an effort to reduce debt is
Speaker 3: coming on while taking advantage of potential deregulation in the
Speaker 3: broadcast business. In a statement, Alan said, we have received
Speaker 3: numerous inquiries. We are going to use this opportunity to
Speaker 3: take a serious look at the office. Plus, Meta is
Speaker 3: bending on automation for the future of ads. The social
Speaker 3: media company aims to enable brands to fully create in
Speaker 3: target ads using AI by the end of next year.
Speaker 3: Now that's calling to the Wall Street Journal, citing sources
Speaker 3: meant as ad platform already offers some AI tools that
Speaker 3: can generate variations of existing apps and a bridge AI.
Speaker 3: A startup that uses artificial intelligence to transcribe medical conversations,
Speaker 3: is raising three hundred million dollars in a new funding
Speaker 3: round led by Andrews and Horowitz so All, according to
Speaker 3: sources who say that the round values of Pittsburgh based
Speaker 3: company are five point three billion including the investments. But
Speaker 3: now let's bring it to New York. New York Tech
Speaker 3: Week kicks off to day the city. It's meant the
Speaker 3: fashion and finance and it's seen a tech boom though
Speaker 3: over the past decade, the sector actually made forty one
Speaker 3: percent of the city's net job growth since twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: Judy Samuels is presidentcy of Tech NYC is a nonprofit.
Speaker 3: You promote the sector in the city, and you have
Speaker 3: got a rather coore new campaign we do.
Speaker 6: We're so excited about it.
Speaker 12: We're launching today with support from New York City and
Speaker 12: in partnership with Red Antler, a campaign called Obviously New
Speaker 12: York And it's really just a moment to celebrate the
Speaker 12: amazing growth of the tech industry here to really highlight
Speaker 12: all the things that we think are just so going
Speaker 12: so well in New York.
Speaker 3: Right now, give us the obvious statistics, give us the
Speaker 3: obvious statements of thought that make New York number two
Speaker 3: tech sector in the world.
Speaker 12: I mean, listen, I have so many, but just some
Speaker 12: that i'd highlight. I think that really underscore what makes
Speaker 12: New York so amazing. New York is the number one
Speaker 12: destination for college graduates.
Speaker 6: The tech sector here.
Speaker 12: In New York you talked about the forty one percent
Speaker 12: figure is responsible for creates ten times the amount of
Speaker 12: new jobs in our local economy than ten times.
Speaker 6: More than other industries.
Speaker 12: I find out that's right since the pandemic, since in
Speaker 12: the past five years. But that speaks to the growth,
Speaker 12: that speaks to the j curve that we're on here that.
Speaker 6: I think is so important.
Speaker 12: You know, it's a seven hundred billion dollar industry, twenty
Speaker 12: five thousand startups.
Speaker 6: It's just booming here.
Speaker 12: And it's because, of course, you know, the New York
Speaker 12: City is home to every industry, and increasingly technology is
Speaker 12: just powering every other industry. And the thing that we
Speaker 12: think is happening here that is unique to New York
Speaker 12: is that as the technology, especially in this moment where
Speaker 12: AI is just booming. You know, all the your entire
Speaker 12: intros about all these companies just growing AI building AI.
Speaker 12: As the new technology evolves, what happens uniquely here in
Speaker 12: New York is companies figure out how to use it,
Speaker 12: who's going to pay for it, what it's going to
Speaker 12: actually do in practice.
Speaker 6: And that is the New York story.
Speaker 3: So give us some pin ups when you think all
Speaker 3: the icons of the New York's stought up scene. I
Speaker 3: think cognition AI in many ways from the underlying really
Speaker 3: leaps some vounds driving forward the technology when it comes
Speaker 3: to coding.
Speaker 2: But where else do we seeing success stories in the.
Speaker 6: AI space in particular?
Speaker 12: Of course, we've got Runway, which is just an amazing
Speaker 12: New York story because it marries the creativity that is
Speaker 12: inherent to so much that happens in New York City
Speaker 12: and the AI side.
Speaker 6: And it's beyond AI.
Speaker 12: Of course, you've got Ramp, which is probably the fastest
Speaker 12: growing startup in New York. That's in the fintech space.
Speaker 12: We have a ton happening in digital health companies like
Speaker 12: Maven and Row. I mean, the list goes on and on.
Speaker 12: But again I would underscore that all of those companies
Speaker 12: are for the most part, building in uniquely New York industries.
Speaker 3: I love that you keep trying to do this tongue
Speaker 3: twister again and again, and you're like nailing it.
Speaker 6: I have a little bit of practice. I have a
Speaker 6: little bit of practice.
Speaker 3: But what about why the campaign around it, why this
Speaker 3: moment a need to celebrate?
Speaker 12: I think that Listen, there's a couple of things happening here,
Speaker 12: and well, first of all, I just think people love
Speaker 12: to have fun, people love.
Speaker 6: To celebrate, and right now, New York.
Speaker 12: Is just ascendant when it comes to tech, and we
Speaker 12: wanted to kind of put a stamp on that. We
Speaker 12: wanted to call it out. We wanted people here to
Speaker 12: feel excited. And then we want to go on the
Speaker 12: road and remind people just how great the New York
Speaker 12: tech ecosystem is.
Speaker 6: Because here's the thing.
Speaker 12: When you meet young people, people of all ages, but
Speaker 12: especially young people, they always want to live in New York,
Speaker 12: and we need to remind them that you can come
Speaker 12: here and build a really dynamic tech career doing that.
Speaker 3: But when I think of the resurgence in San Francisco,
Speaker 3: basically generative aice rebral valley, we've covered it time and
Speaker 3: time again. Do we need to be either or is
Speaker 3: it mutually beneficially seeing companies building talent systems in both places?
Speaker 12: I think, listen, I think you want to see tech
Speaker 12: building and growing the economy all over the country. I
Speaker 12: think that's incredibly important. I like the way we do
Speaker 12: it here in New York. That speaks to me, That's
Speaker 12: why I'm here doing this job here. But I think
Speaker 12: to your point, we want this to happen on both coasts.
Speaker 12: We want this to happen in the middle of the
Speaker 12: country as well. I think that's really important. And you know,
Speaker 12: we talked about a lot of homegrown New York tech companies,
Speaker 12: but open ai is also growing like crazy here and
Speaker 12: in really iconic New York building downtown. They're taking more
Speaker 12: and more space. So it's going to take all of
Speaker 12: these pieces, all of this.
Speaker 3: Input you want, like the quintessential public private partnership, because
Speaker 3: you as a normal profit in the middle of bringing
Speaker 3: leaders within some of the iconic New York tech sector
Speaker 3: into help give advice to the public sector.
Speaker 2: And it goes both ways.
Speaker 3: What is it that the public sector is doing that
Speaker 3: helps trikes a really good question.
Speaker 12: So in this instance, The city is putting a significant
Speaker 12: amount of money. It's I think four million dollars in
Speaker 12: total behind help to bolster the AI ecosystem. Part of
Speaker 12: that is helping support our campaign, but that's just a
Speaker 12: small part.
Speaker 6: They're doing a lot more.
Speaker 12: They have an AI Nexus program that the city is
Speaker 12: putting its money where its mouth is, and we think
Speaker 12: that's really important. The state is also doing it's fair share.
Speaker 12: We've got a great program here called Empire AI where
Speaker 12: we're really empowering academic institutions, giving them access to just
Speaker 12: the amazing quantity of compute that's incredibly hard for anyone
Speaker 12: outside of the private sector to get. So the state
Speaker 12: the city, especially in this instance, are really doubling down
Speaker 12: to ensure that New York is a place where people
Speaker 12: want to come to build and grow tech companies, but
Speaker 12: also where.
Speaker 6: People want to live.
Speaker 3: I'm excited to see the statistics coming out for twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five AI job posting surging twenty five thousand in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four New York. J. D. Samuels THEDEO President
Speaker 3: of Tech NYC. Go enjoy tech Week. Meanwhile, let's talk
Speaker 3: about China because Tom Cruise is Film is back On
Speaker 3: top of that Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning posted the
Speaker 3: biggest opening for a US film in the country this
Speaker 3: year and twenty five point two million dollars during its
Speaker 3: opening weekend, defining trade geopolitical tensions between Washington and Beijing.
Speaker 2: IPO activity.
Speaker 3: In the tech space, it is heating up digital bunking
Speaker 3: startup Chime crypto firms Circle both targeting strong offerings. Anthony
Speaker 3: Hughes is there to break it all down, and the
Speaker 3: way in which we see that there's strength is Circle
Speaker 3: being able to sell more shares at a higher price point.
Speaker 13: It seems yes, Circle seems to be going very well.
Speaker 13: The IPO is pricing in the middle of this week,
Speaker 13: so it actually launched last week. Since that happened, Bitcoin
Speaker 13: did come off a bit, but there is certainly a
Speaker 13: lot more enthusiasm towards cryptocurrency, of course, particularly in the
Speaker 13: last month or so. We also saw coinbase come into
Speaker 13: the the S and P five hundred last month, so
Speaker 13: that has contributed to a lot of enthusiasm for that
Speaker 13: company in particular, which is which is behind stable coins,
Speaker 13: and it's a business that some people wondering where it
Speaker 13: fits into the scheme of things, whether it's more of
Speaker 13: like a payments company, and maybe it might deserve a
Speaker 13: bit of a discount to a company like Coinbase, which
Speaker 13: has become sort of the premiere sort of stock in
Speaker 13: the crypto space, one of the premier stocks anyway.
Speaker 3: Well, what's interesting is that Chime being very much sort
Speaker 3: of a retail focused offering in the fintech space, is
Speaker 3: it going to tap into retail demand. Is the institutional
Speaker 3: demand that makes that also a success story when it
Speaker 3: finally comes to the market.
Speaker 13: Well, I think Chime has a really interesting retail story
Speaker 13: because it's obviously appealed very much. It's got eight million customers,
Speaker 13: and it sells a debit card and a credit card,
Speaker 13: and it's been very popular with a certain sort of demographic,
Speaker 13: a younger demographic. It actually reminds me a little bit
Speaker 13: of the Robin Hood ipo from years ago, from a
Speaker 13: few years back, where you know, there's this idea that
Speaker 13: perhaps you have attracted a lot of customers, and maybe
Speaker 13: it might not necessarily be easy to attract millions and
Speaker 13: millions more really quickly like you have in the past.
Speaker 13: But you know, when you have these younger customers, you
Speaker 13: can grow with them and add on products and stuff
Speaker 13: like that, so that'll be one of the real sort
Speaker 13: of selling points I guess with the chaime IPO. But
Speaker 13: the company does come at a significant down round or
Speaker 13: lower evaluation than it was able to attract in twenty
Speaker 13: twenty one, when we had very high valuations for all
Speaker 13: sorts of tech companies, including fintech and this company, but
Speaker 13: also software companies and the like. So we are in
Speaker 13: a very different environment from twenty twenty one and we
Speaker 13: have to take that into account.
Speaker 2: Hinge Health had that as well.
Speaker 3: Of course, I need to disclose that my husband does
Speaker 3: indeed work over at coinbase as well. Anthony Hughes, thank
Speaker 3: you very much indeed for joining us. Now that does
Speaker 3: it for this edition of Bloombag Technology. Do not forget
Speaker 3: to check out our podcast. Find it on the terminal
Speaker 3: as well as online on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart This
Speaker 3: is a blombag Technology