Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Charles W. Chuck Bryant here, Jen Xer. So
Speaker 1: this is a pick from our past about Nirvana, because
Speaker 1: what band is more gen X than Nirvana? But wait
Speaker 1: a minute, it's not about the band. That's why it's
Speaker 1: called Nirvana colon, not the band. It's about Nirvana the
Speaker 1: experience again from August twenty seventh, twenty fifteen. Check it out.
Speaker 1: And this reminds me that one day we should probably
Speaker 1: do one on Nirvana the band, because they were great.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's
Speaker 2: Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry's over there. So this is
Speaker 2: the stuff you should know.
Speaker 1: Here we are now setcher in enlighten Buddha mode.
Speaker 3: Yes, I like that.
Speaker 1: I don't like that, Josh.
Speaker 2: But I did include an Nirvana reference in there when
Speaker 2: I said here we are now?
Speaker 1: Oh did not catch that?
Speaker 3: I noticed?
Speaker 1: Very nice, very subtle.
Speaker 3: I slid that one in there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how you doing?
Speaker 3: Are you feeling centered?
Speaker 1: Uh? No, I'm all whack a do.
Speaker 3: Your chakras are all over the place.
Speaker 1: My chakras are all over the place. So much so
Speaker 1: that I couldn't think of anything solid did was repeat you.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, man, I have to say, while we
Speaker 2: were researching this, I was like, this is some beautiful stuff.
Speaker 1: It's very appealing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually it was. It's neat stuff. Yeah, like I was.
Speaker 2: I became calm in researching this, researching Nirvana.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good thing. Yeah, I think this. You
Speaker 1: can tie this in. We have a couple of related episodes,
Speaker 1: and we might as well just call this the Enlightenment Suite.
Speaker 1: How about that?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 1: I'd like that Karma from July twenty eleven, yep, and
Speaker 1: Reincarnation from July twenty two and Burning Man the Angriest
Speaker 1: People in your uh yeah. And you know, our our
Speaker 1: buddy in New York, Rachel Grundy, is a Buddhist. Oh
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and she's I've talked to her about it.
Speaker 1: So because I was like, you know, Grundy, I've meditated
Speaker 1: someone and it really appeals to me. And like a
Speaker 1: true Buddhist, She's like, it's great, man, here, I'll send
Speaker 1: you some stuff, no press.
Speaker 3: You know, I'll send you some pamphlets.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's basically what she did. She wasn't like, you know,
Speaker 1: you should look at this. You know, it's a little
Speaker 1: uh less overbearing than other religions I found.
Speaker 3: I gotcha, you know what I mean. Now, Rachel Grundy
Speaker 3: does the literary pub crawl, right? Does she still do that?
Speaker 1: I don't know she still does that?
Speaker 3: She used to?
Speaker 1: But we can plug her band Coyote love. How about that?
Speaker 3: There you go, and she just adopted a dog.
Speaker 2: So congratulations, congratulations to everybody. That's the Buddhist way.
Speaker 1: That is so nirvana. I thought was the perfect way
Speaker 1: to cap off karma and reincarnation. Yeah, is the third part,
Speaker 1: and maybe we should do meditation, Maybe we should make
Speaker 1: it a four parter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that could probably be interesting. I'm sure there's a
Speaker 2: lot of studies about the physiological effects of it and
Speaker 2: all that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, all right, that's it agreed upon. Then,
Speaker 2: and then the the what'd you call it? The what suite?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: The Enlightenment Suite, the Enlightenment Suite, not to be confused
Speaker 2: with the Transcendentalists.
Speaker 1: Or the Enlightenment episode, right man.
Speaker 2: Which it doesn't factor into this at all. No, Okay,
Speaker 2: So Chuck, you're talking nirvana. Yes, I you have like
Speaker 2: a conception of it. I have a conception of it,
Speaker 2: but in researching one of the things, and I also
Speaker 2: knew that Buddhists and Hindus share a lot of cosmology.
Speaker 1: Oh, I thought you were gonna say they hate each other.
Speaker 3: No, I don't get that impression.
Speaker 1: No, of course not.
Speaker 3: But they they are.
Speaker 2: Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a spinoff. It's the Aftermatch. It is of religions.
Speaker 3: It's the Joni Loves Chachi of religions.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 3: What else, Maud?
Speaker 1: What was that? An offshoot of Mary Tyler Moore? Mary
Speaker 1: Tyler Moore?
Speaker 2: Right, it's the Jefferson's Yeah for march Archie Bunker, Yeah,
Speaker 2: or all family. Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I could do this for at least thirty straight minutes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should do an episode on spinoffs.
Speaker 3: Where we just say spin off names, yeah.
Speaker 1: And just hold thumbs up or down, and but we
Speaker 1: don't say people just guess.
Speaker 3: Right, what are we doing right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It's the Threes Company, spin off of Hogan's Heroes.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, We're done.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: I did not realize that I guess is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I knew that they were related. I didn't realize that
Speaker 2: it was like a direct offshoot where basically I don't
Speaker 2: think I knew either the Buddha whose name whose original
Speaker 2: name was Siddartha Guatama.
Speaker 1: Did you know that actually Siddartha. Okay, so the h
Speaker 1: is silent Galatama.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 1: Yes, I actually looked at pronunciations or listen to them
Speaker 1: for this episode for once.
Speaker 3: I'm proud of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm also a little ashamed because you did that
Speaker 2: and I didn't.
Speaker 1: That was all for Grundy.
Speaker 3: I was going.
Speaker 2: I was going with the with the original status quo. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's just mangling words of foreign origin.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm trying to mix things up here fifteen years in.
Speaker 3: And scientific words too, not just foreign ones.
Speaker 1: Right. So you were talking about Saddharta Kalatama.
Speaker 2: Right, He was born into as a Hindu, a Hindu family, sure,
Speaker 2: and decided like, yeah, I'm not too hip on Hindu.
Speaker 2: I think there's other ways to go. And there's Buddhism.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the quick version.
Speaker 3: YadA, YadA, YadA, there's Buddhism.
Speaker 1: Yeah. This was fifth century BC and Asia, of course,
Speaker 1: and like you said, he would later become the Buddha,
Speaker 1: which is not to be confused with Buddha.
Speaker 2: A Buddha exactly which you want to be a Buddha,
Speaker 2: Go do it, Chuck, you can do it. Well, you
Speaker 2: couldn't be the Buddha, right, because that's Saddharta's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you could be a Buddha.
Speaker 1: I could be a layman's version, I believe, right, okay,
Speaker 1: because like only monks generally achieve the state of a Buddha.
Speaker 2: So in researching this, if you wanted to, you could
Speaker 2: be like Sinar a life, I'm going to become a
Speaker 2: Buddhist monk and conceivably achieve nirvana. Yes, in this lifetime
Speaker 2: you could, sure, because you're a human being. You're incarnated
Speaker 2: as a human being into this moral coil, and if
Speaker 2: you wanted to, you could go do it. But in
Speaker 2: researching this, yes, apparently it's typically left to the Buddhist
Speaker 2: monks because they're the ones who are like, who have
Speaker 2: the time Sinar life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you got to drop out sort.
Speaker 2: Of in a lot of ways, not entirely, I mean,
Speaker 2: Buddhist monks like still filter amongst the masses and all that, sure,
Speaker 2: but for the most part they're focusing a lot more
Speaker 2: on achieving nirvana than the average day to day person does,
Speaker 2: even like a day to day Buddhist or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a part time job. You're not like
Speaker 1: sitting around on Netflix, like should I watch Orange is
Speaker 1: a New Black? Or should I meditate for eight hours? Right?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Can I do both?
Speaker 1: You can?
Speaker 3: By the way, it's called zoning out.
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit more about said Arta's journey.
Speaker 1: This is five sixty three BC in modern day Nepal
Speaker 1: or what would be modern day Nepal.
Speaker 3: Does the wayback machine go there? Yeah, you want to go,
Speaker 3: let's go? All right, sounds like a lovely time.
Speaker 1: All right, here we are. It's cold, It's lovely.
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. I didn't take it as cold.
Speaker 2: I thought we would be going back to like maybe spring,
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's really cold here right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good thing you're wearing that ox hide.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, lined with Shirpa.
Speaker 1: So I see said Arta over there, and he is
Speaker 1: a rich dude, and he is a very shelter dude.
Speaker 1: And despite all these riches and this lifestyle, he's very pampered.
Speaker 1: He's kind of I can see it in his eyes.
Speaker 1: He is dissatisfied.
Speaker 3: He is dissatisfied.
Speaker 2: He's born into a ruling class, very powerful, like you said,
Speaker 2: rich family, Yeah, and he's part of the idle rich,
Speaker 2: but he's part of the thinking, idle rich. So he
Speaker 2: started to question his place in life, which is basically
Speaker 2: what you said, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he starts to mul this over and like maybe
Speaker 1: there's more. It's a very long story, and we could
Speaker 1: spend hours talking about this, but.
Speaker 3: I'm sure people do.
Speaker 1: I've seen a yeah, because like you can't do it
Speaker 1: part time, like I said, right, But I'm looking at him,
Speaker 1: and basically I can tell that his disillusionment has has
Speaker 1: reached its apex, and it is culminated by him looking
Speaker 1: out the window one day and he sees three things
Speaker 1: from his little palace window. He sees a decrepit old man,
Speaker 1: he sees a disease man, and then he sees a corpse.
Speaker 1: And he's done.
Speaker 3: It's like the progression, I guess.
Speaker 1: So, and he's like, you know what, I'm done with
Speaker 1: this life. Can't take it anymore. Even though I have
Speaker 1: my arranged wife, my cousin whom I married, I was
Speaker 1: forced to marry. I have a beautiful son whom I love.
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave them. I'm going to leave all
Speaker 1: my possessions, and I'm going to go on a quest,
Speaker 1: a vision quest, if you will, to understand the true
Speaker 1: nature of life. And here I go right and back
Speaker 1: we are to the present day. Sir, you can hang
Speaker 1: your ox hide and that Sherpa on the coat rack.
Speaker 3: Wait, well, there's more to this story.
Speaker 1: Do we have to go back?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we gotta go back. I gotta go on, short pants,
Speaker 2: put your pants back on.
Speaker 3: Right, so chuck.
Speaker 2: Here we are back again, and Sidharta is He's gone
Speaker 2: from very rich, powerful family. He's decided to go on
Speaker 2: this vision quest. He thinks, well, I mean, if I
Speaker 2: was very dissatisfied, and I think it's kind of wrong
Speaker 2: to be as grossly rich as I was the family
Speaker 2: I was born into, I'll just go the exact opposite route,
Speaker 2: and I'll become a hermit, a completely poverty stricken hermit
Speaker 2: who has not even a pot to pee in, not
Speaker 2: even that right. And he figures out that as he's
Speaker 2: starving to death, that it's not leading to any kind
Speaker 2: of enlightenment. He's actually growing increasingly uncomfortable. It's getting harder
Speaker 2: and harder for him to pay attention to enlightenment because
Speaker 2: say he's hungry and hungrier. Sure, and he realizes, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, maybe this isn't the.
Speaker 3: Right way to go. Maybe polar extremes are a little
Speaker 3: too extreme.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what if I die without achieving my goal? That
Speaker 1: would just have been a wasted life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have been poverty stricken and great, but
Speaker 2: that doesn't lead to enlightenment clearly. So here comes a
Speaker 2: stranger who's offering me a meal. I'm gonna take it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be poverty stricken no longer. And maybe I
Speaker 2: don't need to be rich, but I also don't need
Speaker 2: to be poverty stricken.
Speaker 3: I need to take this middle road to enlightenment.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna kill that stranger, take all the food.
Speaker 3: No, with a pigeon hammer.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, that's not the middle road. That's far from
Speaker 1: the middle road.
Speaker 3: That's kind of extreme as well.
Speaker 1: I kid.
Speaker 2: So he takes a meal from a stranger, he figures
Speaker 2: out I think finally that like, oh okay, this is
Speaker 2: the way to do it, goes and sits under a
Speaker 2: tree and achieved nirvana.
Speaker 3: He achieved omniscience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were three stages of that he saw his
Speaker 1: past lives, all of them. He saw the past lives
Speaker 1: of all others, and he's like, I'm really starting to
Speaker 1: catch on to things here. Things are revealing themselves. And
Speaker 1: finally he identified the four Noble truths, which we'll talk
Speaker 1: about in a bit, but those were the three stages
Speaker 1: under the tree. And in the end of it, he said,
Speaker 1: you know, I gained a perfect understanding of the laws
Speaker 1: governing the cycle of birth and death. Like it's nirvana.
Speaker 2: Boom, it's nirvana, and nirvana we should probably say once
Speaker 2: he achieved nirvana.
Speaker 1: He didn't say it's nirvana.
Speaker 3: No, he couldn't say much.
Speaker 2: Actually, one of the things that I came across from
Speaker 2: research time and time again is that he very famously
Speaker 2: couldn't put it into words a description of what he
Speaker 2: experienced in this new state of enlightenment that he was
Speaker 2: vibing in.
Speaker 3: It's like Catulu kind of. It was the unnameable, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But everybody trusted him anyway. They said, this guy
Speaker 2: knows where it's at. We're going to start following his teachings.
Speaker 1: Yeah. In Sanskrit, nirvana means to extinguish, so in this case,
Speaker 1: they're talking about extinguishing suffering and hatred and ignorance.
Speaker 3: No good, So we'll talk about the Buddha's.
Speaker 2: Path to enlightenment and his teachings that came out of
Speaker 2: this achievement of vana.
Speaker 3: Right after this and we're back.
Speaker 2: That's pretty funny put an ad in the middle of
Speaker 2: a Buddhism lesson.
Speaker 1: Well, we take all comers here, my friend. So, if
Speaker 1: you achieve nirvana, what you're doing is you are breaking
Speaker 1: that cycle. If you listen to our reincarnation podcast, the
Speaker 1: samsara is that cycle of reincarnation that you can be
Speaker 1: caught in or stuck in. I guess. And this is
Speaker 1: where karma, and again we have a great episode on karma.
Speaker 1: Karma comes into play because what you're doing is you're
Speaker 1: rewarded on your past actions in your current life and
Speaker 1: earlier lives.
Speaker 3: Right, Does that make sense? No, it makes sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure so, And I love that this article says
Speaker 1: it's important to note that the law of karma isn't
Speaker 1: due to God's judgment yeah, over a person's behavior, and
Speaker 1: it's closer to Newton's law of motion. That makes more sense.
Speaker 2: Right, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So when like you, you know, step on a snail, you're
Speaker 2: just like, man, didn't mean to do that. It's going
Speaker 2: to come back and bite me later on in another life.
Speaker 2: And you build up this karma or whatever. But when
Speaker 2: you reach nirvana, you stop accruing bag karma.
Speaker 1: That's right. You transcend it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And when you transcend it, then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you can spend the rest of your life working off
Speaker 2: that karma debt that you have already accrued.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that doesn't just go away.
Speaker 1: It's like paying down a credit card exactly.
Speaker 2: So, but it's like when you achieve nirvana, the credit
Speaker 2: cards cut up, so you're not adding to your account
Speaker 2: any longer. Yeah, but you still have some money that
Speaker 2: you owe and you're paying that off in this life
Speaker 2: or conceivably other lives following. But at some point your
Speaker 2: your golden ticket has been granted. You have achieved nirvana,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 1: And when that happens, you are you have escaped that
Speaker 1: smsara and you have achieved potty nirvana, and that is
Speaker 1: the final stage that you find in the afterlife. Right.
Speaker 1: And in the case of Saddharta, he was eighty years old,
Speaker 1: when he passed, and he died in a state of meditation,
Speaker 1: basically saying to his people around him, it's all good man,
Speaker 1: this is like, this is the goal. It was like
Speaker 1: a great way to pass, you know, yeah, like we
Speaker 1: should all pass that way.
Speaker 2: Sure, telling everybody it's all good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much like whatters style.
Speaker 3: So he's going all right, all right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those were his last words, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2: So when when one achieves nirvana and you escape the
Speaker 2: cycle of semsara, you eventually, when you die and you
Speaker 2: work off your karmic debt and you're no longer reincarnated,
Speaker 2: you become you basically travel to another dimension, another realm.
Speaker 2: It's just something different that basically exists outside of space time,
Speaker 2: as modern Buddhists would say, and you are kind of
Speaker 2: one with the universe. Just become a selfless part of
Speaker 2: the universe.
Speaker 1: That sounds beautiful to me.
Speaker 3: Sure, it's nice.
Speaker 1: So Pot of Nirvana Day or just Nirvana Day, is
Speaker 1: celebrated on February fifteenth in East Asia. Celebrations vary, Evidently,
Speaker 1: I looked it up. Apparently some people just meditate, some
Speaker 1: people are just reflective. A lot of times in monasteries
Speaker 1: food is prepared and shared. But that is February fifteenth.
Speaker 3: Okay, Nirvana day. Yeah, so, Chuck, if you become a.
Speaker 2: Buddhist monk and you achieve nirvana, and let's say you're
Speaker 2: not a Buddhist monk and you no, well, let's say
Speaker 2: you are.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're a buddhistman that keep putting on these
Speaker 1: clothes and taking them off.
Speaker 3: You achieve nirvana.
Speaker 2: You become a Buddha, right, not again, not the Buddha,
Speaker 2: but a Buddha like you're which means an enlightened one.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: And if you say I have got some time and
Speaker 2: money and I'm going to hire you a Buddha to
Speaker 2: lead me to nirvana, you're almost like a junior Buddha.
Speaker 3: There's a different word for him. They're called are hats.
Speaker 1: Yeah, are hit that's what I found. Are hit Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that's right. That's when you have a Buddha guide to
Speaker 1: guide you and you are not you're enlightened. You're just
Speaker 1: not omniscient.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not bad though, Yeah, big difference though. Not omniscient
Speaker 3: and omniscient.
Speaker 2: There's a pretty big difference between those two things, you know, right,
Speaker 2: So when the Buddha came back from his in like well,
Speaker 2: once he achieved his enlightened state, he started trying to
Speaker 2: tell people like, you can be like this too, and
Speaker 2: here's how you do it. He said that there are
Speaker 2: it's very simple. There are just four noble truths. It's
Speaker 2: all you need to know until you realize that the
Speaker 2: fourth noble truth mentions an eightfold path and then suddenly
Speaker 2: like it's exponentially more involved, but it's still fairly simple stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he taught this for the last forty five years
Speaker 1: of his life. Number one is that life is suffering,
Speaker 1: and I think that was he was clued into that
Speaker 1: from his window that day. Yeah, it was the suffering
Speaker 1: that really made him go, like, man, right, this is life,
Speaker 1: that old guy, that dead body.
Speaker 3: If this is life, who needs enemies?
Speaker 1: Oh? Good? Point Number two suffering is caused by ignorance
Speaker 1: of the true nature of the universe. So ignorance is
Speaker 1: not bliss, ignorance is no good.
Speaker 2: No, And basically the true nature of the universes that
Speaker 2: we are made unhappy by wanting, by craving things, and
Speaker 2: that we can free ourselves from those things by overcoming them.
Speaker 1: That's right. That's number three. You can end that suffering.
Speaker 1: And then number four is if you attach yourselves and
Speaker 1: follow the four I'm sorry, the Noble eightfold Path, not
Speaker 1: the four right, then you're all set. You can overcome
Speaker 1: all that junk.
Speaker 2: It's like, just remember these four things and then these
Speaker 2: extra eight things.
Speaker 1: So the eight fold path, the noble eight fold Path
Speaker 1: are the ideals that guide you along the way, and
Speaker 1: they're broken down into three divisions.
Speaker 3: There's samas.
Speaker 1: The divisions are samas.
Speaker 2: Oh no, the the individual paths are called samas.
Speaker 1: Oh gotcha. Well, the first two are under the division
Speaker 1: of wisdom, right views, and right intention.
Speaker 2: And it's free if samas are are frequently translated into
Speaker 2: right here in the West in English. Sure, and it
Speaker 2: doesn't this article I read by this one guy said, like,
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that the opposite of that is wrong, right,
Speaker 2: It's more right. It's more like right in this sense
Speaker 2: means complete, perfect, whole.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the opposite of that would be incomplete, imperfect,
Speaker 2: not whole. That makes sense rather than wrong, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The second division is ethical conduct, and under there you
Speaker 1: have complete or right speech, right action, and right livelihood.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So working for Goldman Sachs or clubbing baby seals, You're
Speaker 2: gonna have trouble achieving Nirvana at this in those positions,
Speaker 2: I would.
Speaker 1: Say, so, probably not. You're probably not seeking nirvana either, right,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, so you're fine. What about podcasters?
Speaker 3: Podcast totally in there.
Speaker 1: We're somewhere between clubbing baby seals and Golden Sets. And
Speaker 1: then finally, concentration is the last division, and that is
Speaker 1: right effort, right mindedness, and right contemplation.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the right mindedness is you know, being mindful, being aware.
Speaker 2: Right effort is like you're directing your effort toward these
Speaker 2: good things. Yeah, you're not being slack in your path
Speaker 2: to enlightenment.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the last one, right contemplation, is kind of
Speaker 2: difficult to understand. It's very least, it's difficult to explain.
Speaker 2: I found in researching, but it's basically focusing your entire
Speaker 2: self on this, on the Eightfold Path and the four
Speaker 2: Noble Truths, and yeah, like you're you're really directing all
Speaker 2: of your thought and energy into that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's what I got from Grundy when I
Speaker 1: talked to her last time we were up there at
Speaker 1: the Bell House. She was it was just very soothing.
Speaker 1: She's just like, man, it's just practice. You're like, it's
Speaker 1: a cycle. You're just continually trying to do the right thing.
Speaker 3: Gotcha.
Speaker 1: And that's like the simplest breakdown. But you know, if
Speaker 1: something bad happens and you don't, you start over and
Speaker 1: you try harder, gotcha, which is like that sounds like
Speaker 1: really great life principles. Yep, you know.
Speaker 2: So that's Buddhist thought as far as achieving nirvana goes,
Speaker 2: and Hinduism is actually very closely related, but there are
Speaker 2: some major distinctions, and we will talk all about that
Speaker 2: right after this.
Speaker 3: Okay, Chuckers, we're back.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: The Buddhists typically talk about nirvana as nirvana. In Hinduism,
Speaker 2: it's usually referred to as moksha, but they're base talking
Speaker 2: about the same thing. It's this the highest plane of
Speaker 2: existence wherein you stop being reincarnated, you have worked off
Speaker 2: your karmic debt, and you reunite with the cosmos, with
Speaker 2: the universe. And in Hindu cosmology, they're talking about Krishna,
Speaker 2: which is the godhead, which is the source of all things,
Speaker 2: and Krishna is very frequently or Kristna incarnates in three
Speaker 2: major deities in all deities, and all Hindu deities are
Speaker 2: extensions of Krishna. But the big three are Brahma who's
Speaker 2: the creator, Vishnu who's the sustainer, and Shiva who's the destroyer.
Speaker 2: And when you die, when you achieve moksha, you go
Speaker 2: and get absorbed into Krishna again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the big difference that I think we found
Speaker 1: with between Buddha nirvana and Hindu nirvana or Buddhist nirvana
Speaker 1: is that with Hindu you're working your way up through
Speaker 1: this cast system.
Speaker 2: Eventually you start out by you have to be born
Speaker 2: through every type of organism that exists on the planet.
Speaker 2: You actually make it through under Hindu cosmology, eight million,
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand different species of animals before you even
Speaker 2: get to humanity. And then once you become a human,
Speaker 2: you can go through countless lives in different casts over
Speaker 2: and over again. But those casts are hierarchical, and you,
Speaker 2: like you said, are working your way out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's called the varna, and you get that good
Speaker 1: karma you perform by performing duties in that cast, and
Speaker 1: then basically once you have it's almost like a graduation
Speaker 1: in the next life. If you've done well to the
Speaker 1: next cast up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's actually a lot of debate right now
Speaker 2: because Gandhi was famously thrown out of his cast vice Shaya.
Speaker 2: I believe it's the merchant class, and he was thrown
Speaker 2: out of it because he championed for the rights of
Speaker 2: the lowest class, the Sudra, who basically were responsible for handling,
Speaker 2: picking up dead animals and taking care of the rest
Speaker 2: of the community's waste. And basically we're just generally mistreated
Speaker 2: by the higher casts. And so there's this question now
Speaker 2: in modern Hinduism, like does the cast system still fit?
Speaker 2: Is it's still appropriate? But the thing is is, if
Speaker 2: it's not a reflection of say God's punishment, but something
Speaker 2: is physical, as like the second law of thermodynamics or motion,
Speaker 2: sorry that it's just a reaction to some other action
Speaker 2: you took in a past life. Who are humans to
Speaker 2: say that the cast system is no longer appropriate. It's
Speaker 2: just part of the universe. But then if it turns
Speaker 2: out to human construct well then it gets kind of ticklish,
Speaker 2: right because it undermines this Hindu cosmology. So it's a
Speaker 2: weird place that modern Hinduism is in right now talking
Speaker 2: about whether or not to do away with the cast system. Interesting,
Speaker 2: what do you think I think that's up to Hindu
Speaker 2: good answer, thanks.
Speaker 1: So I would imagine that Gandhi then in his next
Speaker 1: life was definitely in that next cast up. Huh.
Speaker 2: I would guess if he didn't just achieve moksha right
Speaker 2: then and there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a pretty good guy.
Speaker 1: You're Gandhi. We'll just you can skip a few levels
Speaker 1: exactly grades.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the thing. Like the highest classes, the
Speaker 2: Brahman class in Hinduism, and they're the priestly class.
Speaker 3: They're like the.
Speaker 2: Hindu or the Buddhist monks who go off and try
Speaker 2: to achieve nirvana. Their station in life is to achieve moksha.
Speaker 2: They've worked off their karmic debt to a tremendous degree,
Speaker 2: and like their focus in life is to get rid
Speaker 2: of the rest of their karmic life. So they are
Speaker 2: not born again right right. The one below that is Kashatriya,
Speaker 2: that's the ruling warrior class. That's the one that Siddharta
Speaker 2: was born into, apparently when he was like this is wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we like anybody should be able to achieve enlightenment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was one of the main reasons that
Speaker 1: Buddhism was born, right, was that he didn't he rejected
Speaker 1: that cast system.
Speaker 3: The main reason.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and so but within this, like if you're
Speaker 2: a kesha traya, like you're you're working on your karmak
Speaker 2: debt because as far as you're concerned, if you can
Speaker 2: work off enough of it, you will be born the
Speaker 2: next life into the Brahmin class. And then you can
Speaker 2: work really hard and get out of that and end
Speaker 2: up achieving enlightenment. So there is like a hierarchical progression.
Speaker 2: And as you were saying, one of the main things
Speaker 2: that you're tasked with as a Hindu is dharma, which
Speaker 2: is responsibility to your cast, right, like acting like a
Speaker 2: member of your cast rather than you know, acting out
Speaker 2: like Gandhi, I love it.
Speaker 1: You got anything else?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's actually four tenants, just like the eight what
Speaker 2: was it, the eight the Noble Eightfold path, right, the
Speaker 2: the there's like four in Hinduism. One of them is dharma,
Speaker 2: responsibility to basically your caste, society's rules, but more importantly
Speaker 2: like Krishna's rules, and also like being having a responsibility
Speaker 2: and duty to your.
Speaker 3: Own calling in life and just like living like that.
Speaker 2: Artha is pursuing wealth because in Hinduism there's this idea
Speaker 2: that's like kind of like in Buddhism, where you don't
Speaker 2: need to be super rich, but you also shouldn't be
Speaker 2: poor either. And one of the things is, just like
Speaker 2: with Buddhism and Hinduism, you're trying to escape earthly desires
Speaker 2: and wants. One way to do that is to have
Speaker 2: the money to not have to worry about where your
Speaker 2: food's going to come from. Freeze you up for a
Speaker 2: lot of time to contemplate and get toward enlightenment.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Sure, that's artha comma is more fulfilling desires frequently, like
Speaker 2: sexual desires, that kind of stuff, but there's all sorts
Speaker 2: of like taboo and constraint and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: It's not like a free for all in Hinduism as
Speaker 2: far as sex goes, right, Right. And then lastly there's moksha.
Speaker 2: Once you have moved past your earthly desires, you become
Speaker 2: free from delusion and realize that there is there is
Speaker 2: no earthly self, there's just your connection to Krishna, and
Speaker 2: then you can become enlightened.
Speaker 1: Which is also called mosha. Correct.
Speaker 2: Yes, nice, pretty interesting stuff, huh. Yeah, so that's Nirvana,
Speaker 2: not the band, not the band man. I hope we
Speaker 2: pointed that out at the beginning of this or else.
Speaker 2: Everybody's really confused right now.
Speaker 1: Oh well, probably call it something like Nirvana not the band.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about Nirvana not the band,
Speaker 2: you can type that word into the search bar at
Speaker 2: housetifforks dot com. Since I said search bar, it's time
Speaker 2: for listener may.
Speaker 1: And if you want to know more about Nirvana the band,
Speaker 1: watched the great documentary montage.
Speaker 3: Of heck It's not called Nirvana the band, Nope.
Speaker 1: Montage of Hecky. Very well done, is it? Oh? It's
Speaker 1: great depressing? All right, I'm gonna call this our biggest
Speaker 1: fan in Uganda. Hey, guys, my name is Joshua Quizinberry.
Speaker 1: I'm a huge, possibly the biggest fan of your show
Speaker 1: and I listen to every chance I get. My wife's
Speaker 1: son and I live in Compala, Uganda, where we run
Speaker 1: an NGO for children with severe special needs who have
Speaker 1: been abandoned, organ or abused. On the Nazi Sabotage episode
Speaker 1: just spoke about the brilliant but poorly executed plan of
Speaker 1: the Germans to infiltrate the US and cause chaos. I
Speaker 1: wondered if you guys knew that wasn't an original idea
Speaker 1: by Hitler, but in fact, during World War One, Kaies
Speaker 1: of Wilhelm number two had an entire sabotage ring running
Speaker 1: out of New York City that was responsible for numerous
Speaker 1: acts of terror, including blowing up or attempting to blow
Speaker 1: up railroads canals from the East coast all the way
Speaker 1: to San Francisco in Canada. Did not know that this
Speaker 1: is during the neutral period, Our neutral period of nineteen fourteen.
Speaker 1: One of the largest and most devastating was blowing up
Speaker 1: at munition's depot on New Jersey's Black Tom Island. Apparently
Speaker 1: the blast was heard all the way in Philly and
Speaker 1: through shrapnel that actually damaged the arm and torch of
Speaker 1: Lady Liberty herself.
Speaker 3: What bring me, Kaiser Wilhelm.
Speaker 1: He's dead?
Speaker 3: Huh good?
Speaker 1: Some of it? I just want to kick his body.
Speaker 3: What was that?
Speaker 1: I just figured that was you, Kaiser Wilhelm.
Speaker 3: Is that what I sound like to you?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: No, like I'm drunken about a throw up.
Speaker 1: Some of the other plots that were thankfully discovered were
Speaker 1: attaching rudder bombs on chips. Another interesting one was trying
Speaker 1: to buy us passports from dockworkers to smuggle more spies in.
Speaker 1: It was found out and ushered in putting photos on passports.
Speaker 3: I think I understand.
Speaker 1: I think so too, so they couldn't be stolen and
Speaker 1: used anymore. Anyway, I thought you guys would find it
Speaker 1: fascinating that the Germans that were a little better at
Speaker 1: sabotage and would have made a better film than World
Speaker 1: War One. Wow. And that is Josh Cleusenberry.
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Josh, Thanks for the work you're doing
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to get in touch with us
Speaker 2: to let us know more about something we walked right
Speaker 2: past in a previous episode, we love to hear more stuff.
Speaker 2: You can tweet to us at sysk podcast. You can
Speaker 2: join us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff you Should
Speaker 2: Know If you can send us an email, Stuff podcast
Speaker 2: at housetuffworks dot com, and as always, hang out with
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