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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Charles W. Chuck Bryant here, Jen Xer. So

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Speaker 1: this is a pick from our past about Nirvana, because

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Speaker 1: what band is more gen X than Nirvana? But wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, it's not about the band. That's why it's

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Speaker 1: called Nirvana colon, not the band. It's about Nirvana the

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Speaker 1: experience again from August twenty seventh, twenty fifteen. Check it out.

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Speaker 1: And this reminds me that one day we should probably

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Speaker 1: do one on Nirvana the band, because they were great.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's

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Speaker 2: Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry's over there. So this is

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Speaker 2: the stuff you should know.

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Speaker 1: Here we are now setcher in enlighten Buddha mode.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I like that.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that, Josh.

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Speaker 2: But I did include an Nirvana reference in there when

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Speaker 2: I said here we are now?

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Speaker 1: Oh did not catch that?

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Speaker 3: I noticed?

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Speaker 1: Very nice, very subtle.

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Speaker 3: I slid that one in there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how you doing?

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Speaker 3: Are you feeling centered?

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Speaker 1: Uh? No, I'm all whack a do.

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Speaker 3: Your chakras are all over the place.

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Speaker 1: My chakras are all over the place. So much so

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Speaker 1: that I couldn't think of anything solid did was repeat you.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, man, I have to say, while we

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Speaker 2: were researching this, I was like, this is some beautiful stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's very appealing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, actually it was. It's neat stuff. Yeah, like I was.

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Speaker 2: I became calm in researching this, researching Nirvana.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good thing. Yeah, I think this. You

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Speaker 1: can tie this in. We have a couple of related episodes,

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Speaker 1: and we might as well just call this the Enlightenment Suite.

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Speaker 1: How about that?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 1: I'd like that Karma from July twenty eleven, yep, and

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Speaker 1: Reincarnation from July twenty two and Burning Man the Angriest

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Speaker 1: People in your uh yeah. And you know, our our

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Speaker 1: buddy in New York, Rachel Grundy, is a Buddhist. Oh

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and she's I've talked to her about it.

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Speaker 1: So because I was like, you know, Grundy, I've meditated

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Speaker 1: someone and it really appeals to me. And like a

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Speaker 1: true Buddhist, She's like, it's great, man, here, I'll send

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Speaker 1: you some stuff, no press.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'll send you some pamphlets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That's basically what she did. She wasn't like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you should look at this. You know, it's a little

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Speaker 1: uh less overbearing than other religions I found.

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Speaker 3: I gotcha, you know what I mean. Now, Rachel Grundy

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Speaker 3: does the literary pub crawl, right? Does she still do that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know she still does that?

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Speaker 3: She used to?

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Speaker 1: But we can plug her band Coyote love. How about that?

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Speaker 3: There you go, and she just adopted a dog.

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Speaker 2: So congratulations, congratulations to everybody. That's the Buddhist way.

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Speaker 1: That is so nirvana. I thought was the perfect way

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Speaker 1: to cap off karma and reincarnation. Yeah, is the third part,

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Speaker 1: and maybe we should do meditation, Maybe we should make

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Speaker 1: it a four parter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that could probably be interesting. I'm sure there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of studies about the physiological effects of it and

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Speaker 2: all that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, all right, that's it agreed upon. Then,

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Speaker 2: and then the the what'd you call it? The what suite?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 2: The Enlightenment Suite, the Enlightenment Suite, not to be confused

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Speaker 2: with the Transcendentalists.

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Speaker 1: Or the Enlightenment episode, right man.

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Speaker 2: Which it doesn't factor into this at all. No, Okay,

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Speaker 2: So Chuck, you're talking nirvana. Yes, I you have like

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Speaker 2: a conception of it. I have a conception of it,

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Speaker 2: but in researching one of the things, and I also

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Speaker 2: knew that Buddhists and Hindus share a lot of cosmology.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I thought you were gonna say they hate each other.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't get that impression.

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Speaker 1: No, of course not.

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Speaker 3: But they they are.

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Speaker 2: Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a spinoff. It's the Aftermatch. It is of religions.

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Speaker 3: It's the Joni Loves Chachi of religions.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: What else, Maud?

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Speaker 1: What was that? An offshoot of Mary Tyler Moore? Mary

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Speaker 1: Tyler Moore?

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Speaker 2: Right, it's the Jefferson's Yeah for march Archie Bunker, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: or all family. Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: I could do this for at least thirty straight minutes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we should do an episode on spinoffs.

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Speaker 3: Where we just say spin off names, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And just hold thumbs up or down, and but we

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Speaker 1: don't say people just guess.

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Speaker 3: Right, what are we doing right now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: It's the Threes Company, spin off of Hogan's Heroes.

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Speaker 1: That's good.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we're done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, We're done.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: I did not realize that I guess is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: I knew that they were related. I didn't realize that

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Speaker 2: it was like a direct offshoot where basically I don't

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Speaker 2: think I knew either the Buddha whose name whose original

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Speaker 2: name was Siddartha Guatama.

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Speaker 1: Did you know that actually Siddartha. Okay, so the h

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Speaker 1: is silent Galatama.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I actually looked at pronunciations or listen to them

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Speaker 1: for this episode for once.

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Speaker 3: I'm proud of you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm also a little ashamed because you did that

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Speaker 2: and I didn't.

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Speaker 1: That was all for Grundy.

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Speaker 3: I was going.

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Speaker 2: I was going with the with the original status quo. Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's just mangling words of foreign origin.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm trying to mix things up here fifteen years in.

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Speaker 3: And scientific words too, not just foreign ones.

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Speaker 1: Right. So you were talking about Saddharta Kalatama.

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Speaker 2: Right, He was born into as a Hindu, a Hindu family, sure,

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Speaker 2: and decided like, yeah, I'm not too hip on Hindu.

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Speaker 2: I think there's other ways to go. And there's Buddhism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the quick version.

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Speaker 3: YadA, YadA, YadA, there's Buddhism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. This was fifth century BC and Asia, of course,

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Speaker 1: and like you said, he would later become the Buddha,

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Speaker 1: which is not to be confused with Buddha.

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Speaker 2: A Buddha exactly which you want to be a Buddha,

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Speaker 2: Go do it, Chuck, you can do it. Well, you

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Speaker 2: couldn't be the Buddha, right, because that's Saddharta's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you could be a Buddha.

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Speaker 1: I could be a layman's version, I believe, right, okay,

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Speaker 1: because like only monks generally achieve the state of a Buddha.

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Speaker 2: So in researching this, if you wanted to, you could

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Speaker 2: be like Sinar a life, I'm going to become a

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Speaker 2: Buddhist monk and conceivably achieve nirvana. Yes, in this lifetime

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Speaker 2: you could, sure, because you're a human being. You're incarnated

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Speaker 2: as a human being into this moral coil, and if

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Speaker 2: you wanted to, you could go do it. But in

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Speaker 2: researching this, yes, apparently it's typically left to the Buddhist

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Speaker 2: monks because they're the ones who are like, who have

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Speaker 2: the time Sinar life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you got to drop out sort.

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Speaker 2: Of in a lot of ways, not entirely, I mean,

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Speaker 2: Buddhist monks like still filter amongst the masses and all that, sure,

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Speaker 2: but for the most part they're focusing a lot more

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Speaker 2: on achieving nirvana than the average day to day person does,

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Speaker 2: even like a day to day Buddhist or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a part time job. You're not like

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Speaker 1: sitting around on Netflix, like should I watch Orange is

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Speaker 1: a New Black? Or should I meditate for eight hours? Right?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: Can I do both?

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Speaker 1: You can?

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Speaker 3: By the way, it's called zoning out.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit more about said Arta's journey.

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Speaker 1: This is five sixty three BC in modern day Nepal

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Speaker 1: or what would be modern day Nepal.

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Speaker 3: Does the wayback machine go there? Yeah, you want to go,

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Speaker 3: let's go? All right, sounds like a lovely time.

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Speaker 1: All right, here we are. It's cold, It's lovely.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. I didn't take it as cold.

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Speaker 2: I thought we would be going back to like maybe spring,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's really cold here right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good thing you're wearing that ox hide.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, lined with Shirpa.

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Speaker 1: So I see said Arta over there, and he is

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Speaker 1: a rich dude, and he is a very shelter dude.

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Speaker 1: And despite all these riches and this lifestyle, he's very pampered.

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Speaker 1: He's kind of I can see it in his eyes.

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Speaker 1: He is dissatisfied.

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Speaker 3: He is dissatisfied.

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Speaker 2: He's born into a ruling class, very powerful, like you said,

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Speaker 2: rich family, Yeah, and he's part of the idle rich,

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Speaker 2: but he's part of the thinking, idle rich. So he

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Speaker 2: started to question his place in life, which is basically

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Speaker 2: what you said, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he starts to mul this over and like maybe

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Speaker 1: there's more. It's a very long story, and we could

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Speaker 1: spend hours talking about this, but.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure people do.

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Speaker 1: I've seen a yeah, because like you can't do it

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Speaker 1: part time, like I said, right, But I'm looking at him,

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Speaker 1: and basically I can tell that his disillusionment has has

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Speaker 1: reached its apex, and it is culminated by him looking

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Speaker 1: out the window one day and he sees three things

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Speaker 1: from his little palace window. He sees a decrepit old man,

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Speaker 1: he sees a disease man, and then he sees a corpse.

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Speaker 1: And he's done.

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Speaker 3: It's like the progression, I guess.

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Speaker 1: So, and he's like, you know what, I'm done with

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Speaker 1: this life. Can't take it anymore. Even though I have

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Speaker 1: my arranged wife, my cousin whom I married, I was

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Speaker 1: forced to marry. I have a beautiful son whom I love.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to leave them. I'm going to leave all

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Speaker 1: my possessions, and I'm going to go on a quest,

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Speaker 1: a vision quest, if you will, to understand the true

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Speaker 1: nature of life. And here I go right and back

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Speaker 1: we are to the present day. Sir, you can hang

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Speaker 1: your ox hide and that Sherpa on the coat rack.

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Speaker 3: Wait, well, there's more to this story.

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Speaker 1: Do we have to go back?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we gotta go back. I gotta go on, short pants,

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Speaker 2: put your pants back on.

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Speaker 3: Right, so chuck.

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Speaker 2: Here we are back again, and Sidharta is He's gone

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Speaker 2: from very rich, powerful family. He's decided to go on

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Speaker 2: this vision quest. He thinks, well, I mean, if I

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Speaker 2: was very dissatisfied, and I think it's kind of wrong

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Speaker 2: to be as grossly rich as I was the family

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Speaker 2: I was born into, I'll just go the exact opposite route,

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Speaker 2: and I'll become a hermit, a completely poverty stricken hermit

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Speaker 2: who has not even a pot to pee in, not

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Speaker 2: even that right. And he figures out that as he's

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Speaker 2: starving to death, that it's not leading to any kind

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Speaker 2: of enlightenment. He's actually growing increasingly uncomfortable. It's getting harder

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Speaker 2: and harder for him to pay attention to enlightenment because

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Speaker 2: say he's hungry and hungrier. Sure, and he realizes, wait

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Speaker 2: a minute, maybe this isn't the.

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Speaker 3: Right way to go. Maybe polar extremes are a little

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Speaker 3: too extreme.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what if I die without achieving my goal? That

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Speaker 1: would just have been a wasted life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have been poverty stricken and great, but

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Speaker 2: that doesn't lead to enlightenment clearly. So here comes a

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Speaker 2: stranger who's offering me a meal. I'm gonna take it.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna be poverty stricken no longer. And maybe I

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Speaker 2: don't need to be rich, but I also don't need

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Speaker 2: to be poverty stricken.

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Speaker 3: I need to take this middle road to enlightenment.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna kill that stranger, take all the food.

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Speaker 3: No, with a pigeon hammer.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait, that's not the middle road. That's far from

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Speaker 1: the middle road.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of extreme as well.

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Speaker 1: I kid.

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Speaker 2: So he takes a meal from a stranger, he figures

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Speaker 2: out I think finally that like, oh okay, this is

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Speaker 2: the way to do it, goes and sits under a

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Speaker 2: tree and achieved nirvana.

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Speaker 3: He achieved omniscience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were three stages of that he saw his

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Speaker 1: past lives, all of them. He saw the past lives

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Speaker 1: of all others, and he's like, I'm really starting to

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Speaker 1: catch on to things here. Things are revealing themselves. And

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Speaker 1: finally he identified the four Noble truths, which we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about in a bit, but those were the three stages

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Speaker 1: under the tree. And in the end of it, he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I gained a perfect understanding of the laws

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Speaker 1: governing the cycle of birth and death. Like it's nirvana.

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Speaker 2: Boom, it's nirvana, and nirvana we should probably say once

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Speaker 2: he achieved nirvana.

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Speaker 1: He didn't say it's nirvana.

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Speaker 3: No, he couldn't say much.

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Speaker 2: Actually, one of the things that I came across from

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Speaker 2: research time and time again is that he very famously

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Speaker 2: couldn't put it into words a description of what he

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Speaker 2: experienced in this new state of enlightenment that he was

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Speaker 2: vibing in.

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Speaker 3: It's like Catulu kind of. It was the unnameable, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But everybody trusted him anyway. They said, this guy

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Speaker 2: knows where it's at. We're going to start following his teachings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. In Sanskrit, nirvana means to extinguish, so in this case,

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Speaker 1: they're talking about extinguishing suffering and hatred and ignorance.

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Speaker 3: No good, So we'll talk about the Buddha's.

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Speaker 2: Path to enlightenment and his teachings that came out of

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Speaker 2: this achievement of vana.

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Speaker 3: Right after this and we're back.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty funny put an ad in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a Buddhism lesson.

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Speaker 1: Well, we take all comers here, my friend. So, if

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Speaker 1: you achieve nirvana, what you're doing is you are breaking

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Speaker 1: that cycle. If you listen to our reincarnation podcast, the

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Speaker 1: samsara is that cycle of reincarnation that you can be

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Speaker 1: caught in or stuck in. I guess. And this is

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Speaker 1: where karma, and again we have a great episode on karma.

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Speaker 1: Karma comes into play because what you're doing is you're

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Speaker 1: rewarded on your past actions in your current life and

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Speaker 1: earlier lives.

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Speaker 3: Right, Does that make sense? No, it makes sense?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sure so, And I love that this article says

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Speaker 1: it's important to note that the law of karma isn't

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Speaker 1: due to God's judgment yeah, over a person's behavior, and

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Speaker 1: it's closer to Newton's law of motion. That makes more sense.

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Speaker 2: Right, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So when like you, you know, step on a snail, you're

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Speaker 2: just like, man, didn't mean to do that. It's going

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Speaker 2: to come back and bite me later on in another life.

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Speaker 2: And you build up this karma or whatever. But when

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Speaker 2: you reach nirvana, you stop accruing bag karma.

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Speaker 1: That's right. You transcend it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And when you transcend it, then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: you can spend the rest of your life working off

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Speaker 2: that karma debt that you have already accrued.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because that doesn't just go away.

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Speaker 1: It's like paying down a credit card exactly.

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Speaker 2: So, but it's like when you achieve nirvana, the credit

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Speaker 2: cards cut up, so you're not adding to your account

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Speaker 2: any longer. Yeah, but you still have some money that

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Speaker 2: you owe and you're paying that off in this life

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Speaker 2: or conceivably other lives following. But at some point your

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Speaker 2: your golden ticket has been granted. You have achieved nirvana,

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Speaker 2: that's right.

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Speaker 1: And when that happens, you are you have escaped that

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Speaker 1: smsara and you have achieved potty nirvana, and that is

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Speaker 1: the final stage that you find in the afterlife. Right.

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Speaker 1: And in the case of Saddharta, he was eighty years old,

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Speaker 1: when he passed, and he died in a state of meditation,

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Speaker 1: basically saying to his people around him, it's all good man,

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Speaker 1: this is like, this is the goal. It was like

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Speaker 1: a great way to pass, you know, yeah, like we

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Speaker 1: should all pass that way.

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Speaker 2: Sure, telling everybody it's all good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much like whatters style.

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Speaker 3: So he's going all right, all right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, those were his last words, if I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 2: So when when one achieves nirvana and you escape the

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Speaker 2: cycle of semsara, you eventually, when you die and you

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Speaker 2: work off your karmic debt and you're no longer reincarnated,

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Speaker 2: you become you basically travel to another dimension, another realm.

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Speaker 2: It's just something different that basically exists outside of space time,

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Speaker 2: as modern Buddhists would say, and you are kind of

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Speaker 2: one with the universe. Just become a selfless part of

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Speaker 2: the universe.

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Speaker 1: That sounds beautiful to me.

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Speaker 3: Sure, it's nice.

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Speaker 1: So Pot of Nirvana Day or just Nirvana Day, is

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Speaker 1: celebrated on February fifteenth in East Asia. Celebrations vary, Evidently,

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Speaker 1: I looked it up. Apparently some people just meditate, some

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Speaker 1: people are just reflective. A lot of times in monasteries

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Speaker 1: food is prepared and shared. But that is February fifteenth.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Nirvana day. Yeah, so, Chuck, if you become a.

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Speaker 2: Buddhist monk and you achieve nirvana, and let's say you're

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Speaker 2: not a Buddhist monk and you no, well, let's say

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Speaker 2: you are.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you're a buddhistman that keep putting on these

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Speaker 1: clothes and taking them off.

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Speaker 3: You achieve nirvana.

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Speaker 2: You become a Buddha, right, not again, not the Buddha,

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Speaker 2: but a Buddha like you're which means an enlightened one.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: And if you say I have got some time and

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Speaker 2: money and I'm going to hire you a Buddha to

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Speaker 2: lead me to nirvana, you're almost like a junior Buddha.

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Speaker 3: There's a different word for him. They're called are hats.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, are hit that's what I found. Are hit Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's right. That's when you have a Buddha guide to

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Speaker 1: guide you and you are not you're enlightened. You're just

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Speaker 1: not omniscient.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not bad though, Yeah, big difference though. Not omniscient

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Speaker 3: and omniscient.

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Speaker 2: There's a pretty big difference between those two things, you know, right,

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Speaker 2: So when the Buddha came back from his in like well,

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Speaker 2: once he achieved his enlightened state, he started trying to

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Speaker 2: tell people like, you can be like this too, and

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Speaker 2: here's how you do it. He said that there are

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Speaker 2: it's very simple. There are just four noble truths. It's

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Speaker 2: all you need to know until you realize that the

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Speaker 2: fourth noble truth mentions an eightfold path and then suddenly

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Speaker 2: like it's exponentially more involved, but it's still fairly simple stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he taught this for the last forty five years

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Speaker 1: of his life. Number one is that life is suffering,

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Speaker 1: and I think that was he was clued into that

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Speaker 1: from his window that day. Yeah, it was the suffering

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Speaker 1: that really made him go, like, man, right, this is life,

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Speaker 1: that old guy, that dead body.

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Speaker 3: If this is life, who needs enemies?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Good? Point Number two suffering is caused by ignorance

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Speaker 1: of the true nature of the universe. So ignorance is

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Speaker 1: not bliss, ignorance is no good.

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Speaker 2: No, And basically the true nature of the universes that

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Speaker 2: we are made unhappy by wanting, by craving things, and

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Speaker 2: that we can free ourselves from those things by overcoming them.

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Speaker 1: That's right. That's number three. You can end that suffering.

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Speaker 1: And then number four is if you attach yourselves and

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Speaker 1: follow the four I'm sorry, the Noble eightfold Path, not

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Speaker 1: the four right, then you're all set. You can overcome

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Speaker 1: all that junk.

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Speaker 2: It's like, just remember these four things and then these

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Speaker 2: extra eight things.

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Speaker 1: So the eight fold path, the noble eight fold Path

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Speaker 1: are the ideals that guide you along the way, and

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Speaker 1: they're broken down into three divisions.

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Speaker 3: There's samas.

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Speaker 1: The divisions are samas.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, the the individual paths are called samas.

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Speaker 1: Oh gotcha. Well, the first two are under the division

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Speaker 1: of wisdom, right views, and right intention.

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Speaker 2: And it's free if samas are are frequently translated into

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Speaker 2: right here in the West in English. Sure, and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't this article I read by this one guy said, like,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that the opposite of that is wrong, right,

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Speaker 2: It's more right. It's more like right in this sense

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Speaker 2: means complete, perfect, whole.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the opposite of that would be incomplete, imperfect,

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Speaker 2: not whole. That makes sense rather than wrong, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I get it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The second division is ethical conduct, and under there you

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Speaker 1: have complete or right speech, right action, and right livelihood.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So working for Goldman Sachs or clubbing baby seals, You're

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Speaker 2: gonna have trouble achieving Nirvana at this in those positions,

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Speaker 2: I would.

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Speaker 1: Say, so, probably not. You're probably not seeking nirvana either, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, so you're fine. What about podcasters?

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Speaker 3: Podcast totally in there.

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Speaker 1: We're somewhere between clubbing baby seals and Golden Sets. And

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Speaker 1: then finally, concentration is the last division, and that is

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Speaker 1: right effort, right mindedness, and right contemplation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the right mindedness is you know, being mindful, being aware.

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Speaker 2: Right effort is like you're directing your effort toward these

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Speaker 2: good things. Yeah, you're not being slack in your path

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Speaker 2: to enlightenment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then the last one, right contemplation, is kind of

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Speaker 2: difficult to understand. It's very least, it's difficult to explain.

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Speaker 2: I found in researching, but it's basically focusing your entire

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Speaker 2: self on this, on the Eightfold Path and the four

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Speaker 2: Noble Truths, and yeah, like you're you're really directing all

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Speaker 2: of your thought and energy into that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's what I got from Grundy when I

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Speaker 1: talked to her last time we were up there at

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Speaker 1: the Bell House. She was it was just very soothing.

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Speaker 1: She's just like, man, it's just practice. You're like, it's

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Speaker 1: a cycle. You're just continually trying to do the right thing.

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Speaker 3: Gotcha.

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Speaker 1: And that's like the simplest breakdown. But you know, if

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Speaker 1: something bad happens and you don't, you start over and

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Speaker 1: you try harder, gotcha, which is like that sounds like

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Speaker 1: really great life principles. Yep, you know.

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Speaker 2: So that's Buddhist thought as far as achieving nirvana goes,

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Speaker 2: and Hinduism is actually very closely related, but there are

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Speaker 2: some major distinctions, and we will talk all about that

440
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: right after this.

441
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: Okay, Chuckers, we're back.

442
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 1: That's right.

443
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 2: The Buddhists typically talk about nirvana as nirvana. In Hinduism,

444
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 2: it's usually referred to as moksha, but they're base talking

445
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 2: about the same thing. It's this the highest plane of

446
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: existence wherein you stop being reincarnated, you have worked off

447
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: your karmic debt, and you reunite with the cosmos, with

448
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 2: the universe. And in Hindu cosmology, they're talking about Krishna,

449
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 2: which is the godhead, which is the source of all things,

450
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: and Krishna is very frequently or Kristna incarnates in three

451
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: major deities in all deities, and all Hindu deities are

452
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: extensions of Krishna. But the big three are Brahma who's

453
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: the creator, Vishnu who's the sustainer, and Shiva who's the destroyer.

454
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: And when you die, when you achieve moksha, you go

455
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 2: and get absorbed into Krishna again.

456
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the big difference that I think we found

457
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: with between Buddha nirvana and Hindu nirvana or Buddhist nirvana

458
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: is that with Hindu you're working your way up through

459
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 1: this cast system.

460
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 2: Eventually you start out by you have to be born

461
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 2: through every type of organism that exists on the planet.

462
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: You actually make it through under Hindu cosmology, eight million,

463
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand different species of animals before you even

464
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 2: get to humanity. And then once you become a human,

465
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 2: you can go through countless lives in different casts over

466
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: and over again. But those casts are hierarchical, and you,

467
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: like you said, are working your way out.

468
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's called the varna, and you get that good

469
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: karma you perform by performing duties in that cast, and

470
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: then basically once you have it's almost like a graduation

471
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: in the next life. If you've done well to the

472
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: next cast up.

473
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's actually a lot of debate right now

474
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 2: because Gandhi was famously thrown out of his cast vice Shaya.

475
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: I believe it's the merchant class, and he was thrown

476
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 2: out of it because he championed for the rights of

477
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 2: the lowest class, the Sudra, who basically were responsible for handling,

478
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 2: picking up dead animals and taking care of the rest

479
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 2: of the community's waste. And basically we're just generally mistreated

480
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: by the higher casts. And so there's this question now

481
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: in modern Hinduism, like does the cast system still fit?

482
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: Is it's still appropriate? But the thing is is, if

483
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: it's not a reflection of say God's punishment, but something

484
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 2: is physical, as like the second law of thermodynamics or motion,

485
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: sorry that it's just a reaction to some other action

486
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 2: you took in a past life. Who are humans to

487
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: say that the cast system is no longer appropriate. It's

488
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: just part of the universe. But then if it turns

489
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: out to human construct well then it gets kind of ticklish,

490
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 2: right because it undermines this Hindu cosmology. So it's a

491
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 2: weird place that modern Hinduism is in right now talking

492
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: about whether or not to do away with the cast system. Interesting,

493
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: what do you think I think that's up to Hindu

494
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: good answer, thanks.

495
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: So I would imagine that Gandhi then in his next

496
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: life was definitely in that next cast up. Huh.

497
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 2: I would guess if he didn't just achieve moksha right

498
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: then and there.

499
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a pretty good guy.

500
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: You're Gandhi. We'll just you can skip a few levels

501
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: exactly grades.

502
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the thing. Like the highest classes, the

503
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 2: Brahman class in Hinduism, and they're the priestly class.

504
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: They're like the.

505
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: Hindu or the Buddhist monks who go off and try

506
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: to achieve nirvana. Their station in life is to achieve moksha.

507
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: They've worked off their karmic debt to a tremendous degree,

508
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 2: and like their focus in life is to get rid

509
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 2: of the rest of their karmic life. So they are

510
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 2: not born again right right. The one below that is Kashatriya,

511
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 2: that's the ruling warrior class. That's the one that Siddharta

512
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 2: was born into, apparently when he was like this is wrong. Yeah,

513
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 2: we like anybody should be able to achieve enlightenment.

514
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was one of the main reasons that

515
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: Buddhism was born, right, was that he didn't he rejected

516
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 1: that cast system.

517
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 3: The main reason.

518
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and so but within this, like if you're

519
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: a kesha traya, like you're you're working on your karmak

520
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: debt because as far as you're concerned, if you can

521
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: work off enough of it, you will be born the

522
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 2: next life into the Brahmin class. And then you can

523
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: work really hard and get out of that and end

524
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: up achieving enlightenment. So there is like a hierarchical progression.

525
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: And as you were saying, one of the main things

526
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: that you're tasked with as a Hindu is dharma, which

527
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: is responsibility to your cast, right, like acting like a

528
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: member of your cast rather than you know, acting out

529
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: like Gandhi, I love it.

530
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: You got anything else?

531
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's actually four tenants, just like the eight what

532
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: was it, the eight the Noble Eightfold path, right, the

533
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: the there's like four in Hinduism. One of them is dharma,

534
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 2: responsibility to basically your caste, society's rules, but more importantly

535
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 2: like Krishna's rules, and also like being having a responsibility

536
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 2: and duty to your.

537
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: Own calling in life and just like living like that.

538
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: Artha is pursuing wealth because in Hinduism there's this idea

539
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: that's like kind of like in Buddhism, where you don't

540
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: need to be super rich, but you also shouldn't be

541
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: poor either. And one of the things is, just like

542
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: with Buddhism and Hinduism, you're trying to escape earthly desires

543
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: and wants. One way to do that is to have

544
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: the money to not have to worry about where your

545
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: food's going to come from. Freeze you up for a

546
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: lot of time to contemplate and get toward enlightenment.

547
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: Right.

548
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: Sure, that's artha comma is more fulfilling desires frequently, like

549
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 2: sexual desires, that kind of stuff, but there's all sorts

550
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: of like taboo and constraint and all that kind of stuff.

551
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: It's not like a free for all in Hinduism as

552
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: far as sex goes, right, Right. And then lastly there's moksha.

553
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: Once you have moved past your earthly desires, you become

554
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: free from delusion and realize that there is there is

555
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: no earthly self, there's just your connection to Krishna, and

556
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: then you can become enlightened.

557
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: Which is also called mosha. Correct.

558
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: Yes, nice, pretty interesting stuff, huh. Yeah, so that's Nirvana,

559
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: not the band, not the band man. I hope we

560
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: pointed that out at the beginning of this or else.

561
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: Everybody's really confused right now.

562
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: Oh well, probably call it something like Nirvana not the band.

563
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: There you go.

564
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about Nirvana not the band,

565
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: you can type that word into the search bar at

566
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: housetifforks dot com. Since I said search bar, it's time

567
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: for listener may.

568
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: And if you want to know more about Nirvana the band,

569
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: watched the great documentary montage.

570
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 3: Of heck It's not called Nirvana the band, Nope.

571
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: Montage of Hecky. Very well done, is it? Oh? It's

572
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: great depressing? All right, I'm gonna call this our biggest

573
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: fan in Uganda. Hey, guys, my name is Joshua Quizinberry.

574
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: I'm a huge, possibly the biggest fan of your show

575
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: and I listen to every chance I get. My wife's

576
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: son and I live in Compala, Uganda, where we run

577
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: an NGO for children with severe special needs who have

578
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: been abandoned, organ or abused. On the Nazi Sabotage episode

579
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: just spoke about the brilliant but poorly executed plan of

580
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: the Germans to infiltrate the US and cause chaos. I

581
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: wondered if you guys knew that wasn't an original idea

582
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: by Hitler, but in fact, during World War One, Kaies

583
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: of Wilhelm number two had an entire sabotage ring running

584
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: out of New York City that was responsible for numerous

585
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: acts of terror, including blowing up or attempting to blow

586
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: up railroads canals from the East coast all the way

587
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: to San Francisco in Canada. Did not know that this

588
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: is during the neutral period, Our neutral period of nineteen fourteen.

589
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: One of the largest and most devastating was blowing up

590
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: at munition's depot on New Jersey's Black Tom Island. Apparently

591
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: the blast was heard all the way in Philly and

592
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: through shrapnel that actually damaged the arm and torch of

593
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: Lady Liberty herself.

594
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: What bring me, Kaiser Wilhelm.

595
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: He's dead?

596
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: Huh good?

597
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: Some of it? I just want to kick his body.

598
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: What was that?

599
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: I just figured that was you, Kaiser Wilhelm.

600
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 3: Is that what I sound like to you?

601
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

602
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 3: No, like I'm drunken about a throw up.

603
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: Some of the other plots that were thankfully discovered were

604
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: attaching rudder bombs on chips. Another interesting one was trying

605
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: to buy us passports from dockworkers to smuggle more spies in.

606
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: It was found out and ushered in putting photos on passports.

607
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: I think I understand.

608
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: I think so too, so they couldn't be stolen and

609
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: used anymore. Anyway, I thought you guys would find it

610
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: fascinating that the Germans that were a little better at

611
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: sabotage and would have made a better film than World

612
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: War One. Wow. And that is Josh Cleusenberry.

613
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Josh, Thanks for the work you're doing

614
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: out there.

615
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 3: Nice.

616
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to get in touch with us

617
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: to let us know more about something we walked right

618
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: past in a previous episode, we love to hear more stuff.

619
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: You can tweet to us at sysk podcast. You can

620
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: join us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff you Should

621
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: Know If you can send us an email, Stuff podcast

622
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: at housetuffworks dot com, and as always, hang out with

623
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: us at our home on the web, Stuff youshould Know

624
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: dot Com.

625
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

626
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,160
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627
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