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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking why I left the Fire Movement

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Speaker 1: with Gwen Mers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So most people in the US have no problems

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Speaker 2: when it comes to spending and when it comes to consumption,

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Speaker 2: like I hate to say it, but shopping like it's

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Speaker 2: almost an American pastime. It certainly drives the economy, but

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Speaker 2: not everyone out there indulges in retail therapy. Hopefully listeners

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Speaker 2: to the podcast, Hopefully they're less likely to mindlessly spend.

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Speaker 2: And there's a certain subset of folks who actually struggle

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Speaker 2: with actually the opposite problem. They mindlessly save money as

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Speaker 2: opposed to mindlessly spend it. We frequently mentioned the Fire movement.

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Speaker 2: Financial independence, retire early and its strictest adherents are what

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Speaker 2: we're discussing today. We're excited to be joined by basically

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Speaker 2: a recovering member of the Fire Movement, Gwenn Murrs. Gwenn

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Speaker 2: she has been a part of the community for years now.

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Speaker 2: She's the creator behind the blog Fiery Millennials and was

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Speaker 2: recently featured in multiple Business Insider articles and now she's

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Speaker 2: working on a book documenting her Fire journey and here's

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Speaker 2: a quote from her book proposal, Actually, super savers will

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Speaker 2: improve the quality of their lives by shedding maladaptive behaviors

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Speaker 2: and emotions. I feel like nothing could sum up better

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Speaker 2: what we're going to discuss today. So Gwenn, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for talking with us.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Lots of discuss today, Gwen, especially as I'm just joking here,

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Speaker 1: but you throwing some molotov cocktails in the fire community

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Speaker 1: direction and not really, but you've changed your tune quite

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Speaker 1: a bit, so we're interested to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: what led to that, actually in kind of what got

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Speaker 1: you to the fire movement in the first place. But

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Speaker 1: our first question for every person comes on this show

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Speaker 1: is what's your craft bear equivalent? What are you splurging

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Speaker 1: on today while you're still being intentional about saving and

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Speaker 1: investing for the future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So I've come to realize that there really isn't

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Speaker 3: any space for hobbies spending in the fire movement at

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Speaker 3: its most austere, and I love to have many different hobbies.

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Speaker 3: Having hobbies is my hobby. So I like spending money

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Speaker 3: on painting supplies and staying glass and fabric for quilts

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Speaker 3: and whatever other things I can get my greedy little

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Speaker 3: hands on.

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Speaker 2: I think it's all in your in your proposals or

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Speaker 2: somewhere something about a four thousand dollars sewing machine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah at one time.

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Speaker 2: What's that all about, because that's insane?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, at one time. My sewing machine is the

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Speaker 3: most expensive thing I own, to include my car. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It has a laser on it, so it guides you know,

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Speaker 3: you're like, you can sew a straighter line. It is

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Speaker 3: the most amazing thing I've ever had. It's the best.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know they made sewing machines that cost

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Speaker 1: much unless it was like in like some sort of

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Speaker 1: fancy factory or like in.

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Speaker 2: Some Japanese factory and just pumping out beautiful gens. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so congratulations.

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Speaker 3: I don't I don't know if you want your bubble

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Speaker 3: popped or not. But that is like a mid range

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Speaker 3: oh wow, oh sewing machine. Holy all right, the high

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Speaker 3: ends start at like ten grand and go up from there.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Okay, yeah, all right, sounds like there's

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Speaker 2: a whole area of life I do not need to explore. Matt, Matt,

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Speaker 2: my beetle point. I'll tick the craft beer Gwyn talk

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Speaker 2: to us about what it is that drew you to

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Speaker 2: fire in the first place, Like how old were you?

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Speaker 2: And I guess for you, why did that seem like

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Speaker 2: the right path to seek after financial independence?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So I found the fire movement through mister money

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Speaker 3: Mustache when I was in my junior year of college.

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Speaker 1: Which is, let's be honest, a normal responsible Mister money

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Speaker 1: Mustache was the gateway drug to fire for so many

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Speaker 1: pretty much.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Do you guys remember the website stumble Upon?

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Speaker 2: No, yes you do, Oh yeah, yeah you could, yeah,

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Speaker 2: su and had the little plugins and yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: You would like tell what you're interested in and then

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Speaker 3: it would just like spit out an endless stream of

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Speaker 3: content related to that. So one of the defaults was

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Speaker 3: personal finance, and so I was like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 3: I could use I could stand to learn some more

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Speaker 3: about personal finances, and so I put that as one

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Speaker 3: of my interests along with sewing and you know, all

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Speaker 3: these other things. And it gave me an article from

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Speaker 3: mister money Mustache's blog and I was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: this is this is actually really interesting because I was

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Speaker 3: completely unaware that there was an option to not have

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Speaker 3: to work and when you were an adult, I thought

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Speaker 3: everybody just worked until you were, you know, sixty five,

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Speaker 3: and then maybe you got to retire your meager social

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Speaker 3: security like I'd seen most of my family do. And

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Speaker 3: so I was like, oh, I need to learn so

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Speaker 3: much more about this and just went really really hard

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Speaker 3: on fire basically from the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, because with mister money Mustache's approach, there's not really

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of room for waffling. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: and and and that's part of the appeal I think

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Speaker 1: of his style is like, let's go all in, and

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Speaker 1: I think, I mean, there's a lot a lot of

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Speaker 1: us can and have learned from mister money Mustache. But

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Speaker 1: it also was a little intense, and so it's we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about that in just a minute. But

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Speaker 1: what was the process like for you trying to amass

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Speaker 1: this high six or low seven figure nest egg. What

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Speaker 1: sorts of changes were you making in order to accelerate

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Speaker 1: your progress?

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Speaker 3: Well, see, I don't know if I really like made

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Speaker 3: changes because I started so early that there wasn't really

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Speaker 3: it before time.

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Speaker 2: It was like you were being formed spent anybody yet.

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Speaker 2: So she was like, well, that's easy, I just keep

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Speaker 2: doing what I've been doing, I guess.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I hadn't had a decent education on

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Speaker 3: personal finances from my parents in school, Like I knew

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Speaker 3: to spend less than I made and to keep owns

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Speaker 3: as short as you can and with lowest interest rate possible.

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Speaker 3: But this was like the next level, right. It was

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Speaker 3: like there was at a stone of how to become

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Speaker 3: rich and that like I grew up poor, so I

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Speaker 3: was like, if I follow these steps, I can become rich.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like I'm in, I'm sold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because you

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Speaker 2: like your history, your past, and I feel like that's

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Speaker 2: that's something that doesn't get discussed enough. But your upbringing

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Speaker 2: it seemed like it made it made fire a little

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Speaker 2: more appealing. Did you have to grapple with your past

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Speaker 2: in order to like reshape your view of the path

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Speaker 2: that you wanted to take or did you just know

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Speaker 2: that that was something that you were always wanting to

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Speaker 2: leave behind.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think everybody grapples with their past whenever it,

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Speaker 3: you know, flares up on a fairly regular basis. But

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Speaker 3: you know, what happens to us when we're young shapes

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Speaker 3: us on such a deep level that sometimes we don't

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Speaker 3: even know it. And like being a kid and a

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Speaker 3: household that didn't have a lot of money meant a

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Speaker 3: lot of saying no and deprivation. You know, no, you

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Speaker 3: can't have those sneakers with the lights on them.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Do you guys have those when you grew up?

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Speaker 2: Well, I definitely.

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Speaker 3: Something like that, something like that, But I mean they

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Speaker 3: were so awesome, and like I loved those shoes and

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Speaker 3: I couldn't we couldn't afford them. I had to go with,

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Speaker 3: you know, sketchers or whatever else. So to become an

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Speaker 3: adult with my own money and be like I am

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Speaker 3: in a position where if I, you know, through a

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Speaker 3: bit of luck and do things well, then I will

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Speaker 3: never be in that position again. Is a really powerful motivator.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So talk to us about how deep the

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Speaker 1: cuts went. Like I'm guessing, once you've got a normal

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Speaker 1: job and you started getting paid a normal salary, most

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Speaker 1: of your friends co workers, they're spending money in and

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Speaker 1: you are, granted, you're starting off of this from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you went from spending one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: of what you made or more than that like most

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Speaker 1: Americans do to reducing your spend forty fifty percent, but

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Speaker 1: still you're living a pretty countercultural existence. What was that

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Speaker 1: like for you in in the day to day, the

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Speaker 1: week to week and kind of and how did that

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Speaker 1: impact your relationships?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really hard because what got me praise

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Speaker 3: and validation and approval from the people online and the

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Speaker 3: Fire Movement was regarded with a lot of confusion and

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Speaker 3: more than a little bit of teasing from people in

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Speaker 3: my real life. You know, like I would bring my

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Speaker 3: lunch to work every day and it was like an

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Speaker 3: inside joke, you know, like, oh, oh go and saving money.

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Speaker 3: You're just bringing our lunch to you know, saving those

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Speaker 3: five dollars. But it was like all those little things

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Speaker 3: that I did compounded to make an actually fairly big difference.

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Speaker 3: But it was it was something that I didn't realize

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Speaker 3: that was so impactful until I'd been in the Fire

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Speaker 3: Movement for a couple of years and in my career

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Speaker 3: that like, yeah, sure you can avoid happy hour and

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Speaker 3: save that I don't know, twenty bucks whatever on drinks,

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Speaker 3: but that comes at a cost to your relationships with

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Speaker 3: your coworkers, which could have an impact on your career

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Speaker 3: down the road that you don't even know because you

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Speaker 3: missed out on making and forming and deepening those connections

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Speaker 3: with the people around you.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like the person who bikes to work,

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Speaker 1: which we love bike to work, but like doesn't take

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Speaker 1: a shower before then, I don't know. And we've had

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Speaker 1: listeners like calling with questions about that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it is true that at some point you can

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Speaker 1: go so far in that direction and like forget about

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Speaker 1: the social cues that really do matter when it comes

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Speaker 1: to building relationships but also building your career.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like I would love to say that you know,

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Speaker 3: corporate America isn't based off of who you know, and

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Speaker 3: you know it's based off your skills. But that's that's

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Speaker 3: not true, right. It's a lot of times comes down

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Speaker 3: to who you know and who you have advocating for you.

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Speaker 3: And if you need somebody to advocate for you and

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Speaker 3: they don't know you very well, then it might not

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Speaker 3: get your way.

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Speaker 2: No, that makes sense. And as you were talking about

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Speaker 2: bringing your luncheon and save them five bucks, I was

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Speaker 2: about to interject and be like like a boss, because

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Speaker 2: like we're all about that. That's the man from left.

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Speaker 2: Like literally we bike to work we bring our lunches in,

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Speaker 2: like we still do all the cheap quote unquote cheap

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Speaker 2: or frugal things. But simultaneously, I've worked for myself for

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Speaker 2: the past seventeen eighteen years or so, I don't even

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Speaker 2: know I've lost count. And it's a different sort of

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Speaker 2: calculus when it comes to having coworkers and sort of

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Speaker 2: integrating into the mainstream. And it's fascinating because you talk

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Speaker 2: about how like on one hand, like in one part

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Speaker 2: of your life you receive praise and validation or the

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Speaker 2: words that you just use, like you basically you never

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Speaker 2: made more than I think eighty thousand dollars in some

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Speaker 2: of those early years, but you managed to amass over

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Speaker 2: two hundred thousand dollars in what like five years, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: five years. That's the part of your bio that in

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Speaker 2: like yester year that folks would have been like, how

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Speaker 2: that's amazing, Like you are totally crushing it, like it's

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Speaker 2: the headlines in business inside it exactly. But then on

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Speaker 2: the other hand, maybe we shouldn't be giving you that

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Speaker 2: praise because of, like you said, some of the different

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Speaker 2: sacrifices that you that you had to make, Like like

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Speaker 2: looking back, do you regret those priorities. Do you regret having, say,

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Speaker 2: for instance, been maybe a little little too cheap when

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Speaker 2: it came to happy hours or going out to lunch

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Speaker 2: with co workers, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't regret it because it was a it will

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Speaker 3: be a very very positive footnote in my life story overall.

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Speaker 3: You know, like now I am thirty three, and I

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Speaker 3: don't have to worry about retirement because I saved all

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Speaker 3: that money when I was in my twenties, and my

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Speaker 3: career might have seen a little bit of a hit,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I'm working for longer than I thought,

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Speaker 3: so I've got more time to recover. So, like, I

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Speaker 3: don't really regret it. I think that was the time

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Speaker 3: in your early twenties to kind of make those those

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Speaker 3: choices and see how they kind of played out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, your goal, your stated goal was to retire at

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Speaker 1: the age of thirty five, right, Ye, what was the

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Speaker 1: rush and what were you planning to do at that point?

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Speaker 1: Is it just maybe, and I don't mean this in

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Speaker 1: like a disparaging way, but that you kind of drank

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Speaker 1: the kool aid, the fire kool aid so hard and

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Speaker 1: you're like, I guess I'm starting young I should retire

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Speaker 1: in thirteen, fourteen, fifteen years thirty five sounds like a

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Speaker 1: right time. The numbers can play out that way. Or

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Speaker 1: was it something else driving you to kind of not

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Speaker 1: work as long as now you're planning on working.

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Speaker 3: Well. I don't know if you've ever experienced corporate America,

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Speaker 3: but it's not great in like a lot of different ways.

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Speaker 3: And so when I went from having control over the

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Speaker 3: vast majority of my time and schedule when I was

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Speaker 3: in college and I went into my first full time job,

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Speaker 3: I was like, what do you mean I have to

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Speaker 3: sit in this chair for eight hours a day.

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Speaker 2: It's couter.

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Speaker 3: It's a beautiful day outside. I don't want to go outside,

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Speaker 3: you know. So it was it was driven by initially

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Speaker 3: by that motivation of like, oh, I want to be

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Speaker 3: in control of my time, and if I get started

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Speaker 3: this early, then I can exit early, you know, like

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Speaker 3: mister money mustache it. Like so many of my friends

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Speaker 3: with people who are now my friends in the fire

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Speaker 3: community have done it, proven that it can and does work.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but tell me this, when you quit you you

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Speaker 1: did quit corporate America. I did right, and you you

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Speaker 1: were a landlord, you had a some side businesses that

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Speaker 1: you were trying to get off the ground, including your

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Speaker 1: blog and your podcast.

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Speaker 2: Etsy Shop.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, lots of different but you really you realized, wait

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Speaker 1: a second, corporate America actually isn't all as bad as

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Speaker 1: I as I chalk it up to being. It's actually

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Speaker 1: really hard to survive doing these other things. So maybe

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Speaker 1: I don't know it. I get why you're what you're

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Speaker 1: saying about kind of the potentially soul sucking nature of

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Speaker 1: corporate America. But it's also true that it's so much

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Speaker 1: harder to bring in your own income and start a

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Speaker 1: small business than maybe a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: Let on, it turns out that the grass is not

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Speaker 3: always greener on the other side.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so a part of that, I mean you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: or Joel mentioned, like real estate. Talk to us about that,

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Speaker 2: because you documented you your desire to get into real estate.

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Speaker 2: You saved up money, you got this triplex, and it

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Speaker 2: wasn't all fluffy kittens and butterflies for you. Share a

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Speaker 2: little bit about that experience.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, we're going deep into the trauma, all right. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 3: it was. It was not great because I was trying

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Speaker 3: to be somebody that it wasn't and only one person

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Speaker 3: told me before I bought the triplex that like, hey,

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Speaker 3: that's like that I know you, and that's not going

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Speaker 3: to work out for you because you are too nice

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Speaker 3: and you're a good person. Can't be that nice and

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Speaker 3: that good of a person when.

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Speaker 2: You're a land Why Joel is such a great landlord,

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Speaker 2: Because yeah, it's just I'm a monster.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it turns out that that person was right,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't have a great time in real estate

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Speaker 3: because I didn't do those hard things that you have

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Speaker 3: to do in order to protect your investments, like background

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Speaker 3: checking your tenants.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. And not everyone's cut out

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Speaker 1: for it either, which is something Matt and I talk

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Speaker 1: about on the show. It it seems like this is

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Speaker 1: one of the kind of stamps that a lot of

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Speaker 1: fire people want to put on in kind of their progress.

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Speaker 1: But then it really it takes such you need to

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Speaker 1: take a crash course, a masterclass essentially to do well

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Speaker 1: at real estate investing. And it's I think that's why

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Speaker 1: the index fund thing lands so much more for people,

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Speaker 1: because buying index funds inside of tax advantage accounts, that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty simple thing for people to do. Owning rental

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Speaker 1: properties and managing them, as you found out, is so

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Speaker 1: much more intense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know what, my story honestly would be

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Speaker 3: completely different had that first property worked out and I

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Speaker 3: bought another one, and if it was the second or

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Speaker 3: third one that was such a nightmare, then I would

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Speaker 3: have been like, oh, well, you know, like this is

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Speaker 3: you know, a one off, right, But it was the

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Speaker 3: first one I did, and I didn't have that like

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Speaker 3: safety net behind me of other properties bringing income. You

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Speaker 3: know that that was supposed to be the mainstay of

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Speaker 3: my income, and instead of bringing in four hundred dollars

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Speaker 3: a month or whatever it was, it was costing me

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Speaker 3: thousands of dollars over the course of the time that

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Speaker 3: I owned it. So I was like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: this is something that's supposed to be income producing and

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Speaker 3: instead it's costing me forty thousand dollars in eighteen months,

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Speaker 3: Like this is not going to work out, Like the

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Speaker 3: math is not mathing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's doing the exact opposite. I'm hemorrhaging tons of cash. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean, the reason you went after that triaplex was

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Speaker 2: you're trying to hit that level of finding independence. You

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Speaker 2: had the podcast going, You're a side hustling, and in

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Speaker 2: the Fortune article there's a quote and you said, I

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Speaker 2: just remember going, why am I trying to save all

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Speaker 2: this money? I don't look my best, I'm not taking

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Speaker 2: care of myself as I should. What's the point. It

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Speaker 2: seems like you got to a point to where you

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Speaker 2: realize that none of this was working out, or maybe

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Speaker 2: some of it was working out, but you just realized

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Speaker 2: that this wasn't something that you wanted to pursue. The

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Speaker 2: lifestyle wasn't sustainable. Yeah, So was there a clear point

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Speaker 2: in time? Was there a clear epiphany sort of a moment,

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Speaker 2: or was this something that you gradually realized that you

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Speaker 2: were getting tired of.

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Speaker 3: I think it was. It was more of a gradual

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Speaker 3: emergence from the stupor of the fire movement, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But like.

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Speaker 3: I was in Washington, D C. And it's so expensive

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Speaker 3: to live there compared to the Midwest, I mean compared

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Speaker 3: to basically anywhere actually, and here I was trying to

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Speaker 3: live these fire ideals, and I was broke, like I

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Speaker 3: didn't have any money to do anything, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: why am I putting myself through the ringer to try

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Speaker 3: and make this work? When I don't have to, Like,

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Speaker 3: I don't need to be under this amount of self

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Speaker 3: imposed stress.

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Speaker 1: And when you say broke, that doesn't mean you didn't

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Speaker 1: have a positive net worth. It means you just were

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Speaker 1: allocating maybe too many of your income dollars towards investments

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Speaker 1: and not enough towards being able to live your life.

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Speaker 2: In the here and now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I still had money, but it was all

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Speaker 3: tied up in techs advantaged accounts, and I couldn't actually

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Speaker 3: spend any of it. So like I just didn't have

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Speaker 3: any money on hand. You know. Here I am earning

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Speaker 3: eighty five thousand dollars a year, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 3: should go to the thrift store to buy a new

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Speaker 3: puck because I can't afford to buy one a target

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Speaker 3: because I have money right now, I.

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Speaker 2: Can't wait tell on them fifteen nine and a half.

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Speaker 3: Of yeah, right, yeah, fifty nine and a half count.

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Speaker 1: Check, a ball, marking the exes on the calendar, just

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Speaker 1: you know, for decades and decades until you resett it.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: It gets a little depressing. And that's why balance is

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Speaker 1: so crucial in personal finance. It's not that we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be investing regularly and attempting to invest.

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Speaker 2: A little bit more every year.

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Speaker 1: But if you're doing it to the exclusion of being

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Speaker 1: able to enjoy your life in here now hoping for

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Speaker 1: super fun times in retirement, Matt and I would say,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and I think you would agree, Gwen, you're

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Speaker 1: doing it wrong. There's more questions we have to get

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Speaker 1: to with you, including like how do you adjust your

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Speaker 1: spending as a recovering fire adherent. Well, we'll get to

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Speaker 1: some of those questions right after this.

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Speaker 2: All right, we are back from the break and again

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Speaker 2: we're talking with Gwen Mers. She had a podcast about

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Speaker 2: financial independence, she had her blog. We mentioned that at

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Speaker 2: the top right so Fiery Millennials. She was a fixture within.

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Speaker 1: The movement, definitely in that like beating Heart territory of

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Speaker 1: the fire movie. You were one of those like top

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Speaker 1: ten people when I think people turned to yes, especially

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Speaker 1: for like younger firefolks, because you're you were a there's

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Speaker 1: the mister money.

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Speaker 2: Mustache or the millennials like sorry, she was the new guard.

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Speaker 2: I literally remember meeting you when back in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: That was the first fin Con I went to. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I still remember a picture I think that we.

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Speaker 3: Took, uh the one the airport.

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Speaker 2: I guess it was at the airport, but I remember

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Speaker 2: Matt Finis was in its leaf. He was there as well.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we'll post ye supposed to share that one. You

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Speaker 2: remember what I'm talking about it? I think it was

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Speaker 2: there in the actual conversion.

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Speaker 3: So there.

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Speaker 2: For those who haven't heard us talk about fin Con,

412
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Speaker 2: it's a financial conference. Thus fin Con punch of money nurse.

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Speaker 2: It's where money and media meet. That's the conference or

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Speaker 2: the slogan. But I'm so curious, like, what was the

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Speaker 2: response from from other folks who were some of those

416
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Speaker 2: early voices of the Fire Movement as you started to

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Speaker 2: change your tune like excommunication.

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Speaker 1: Are they just like sorry, going, you're not our friend anymore?

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Speaker 1: Or have they been nice about it?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's it's interesting because when I joined the

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Speaker 3: Fire Movement, I feel kind of a niche that wasn't

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Speaker 3: that wasn't full at that point. You know, where you

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Speaker 3: had mister money Mustache, and you had the mad fientists,

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Speaker 3: and you have all these married software engineers who were

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Speaker 3: in their mid thirties. That's true, and here I am,

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Speaker 3: you know, a young single woman. Granted I was an

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Speaker 3: it earning a fairly high salary, so you know, there's

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Speaker 3: that little caveat there. But like there was, there weren't

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Speaker 3: very many people like me at that time, and so

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Speaker 3: that's kind of what stood out about the blog and

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Speaker 3: about my journey is like, hey, if they're like, if

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Speaker 3: you can answer the question, what would you do if

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Speaker 3: you went back to twenty two and you knew everything

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Speaker 3: that you knew, now, what would you do? And the

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Speaker 3: answer is like, what, Gwen, did you know? Like saved

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Speaker 3: all of our money, tried to spend as little as possible.

438
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 3: So when I started like being like, hey, you know,

439
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 3: like I I'm bumping my savings down. I'm not maxing

440
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 3: out my four one k anymore. At first it was.

441
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 2: There.

442
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 3: There was there was some teasing and disapproval from people

443
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 3: in the fire movement. So like I remember mister money

444
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 3: maght As being like, what, You're not a fiery millennial anymore,

445
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 3: You're a soggy millennial.

446
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 2: Sounds like something he would say.

447
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 3: But guess who just bought a brand new Tesla. Guess

448
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: who's wintering in Arizona.

449
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 2: Where the sunshina not up and not shoveling snow. Yeah,

450
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 2: at some point I guess that's what Pete's doing. It's

451
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 2: you wear it as a badge of honor that you

452
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: keep your spending down to twenty three thousand dollars a

453
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: year or something like that. Whatever it is he he says,

454
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: he spends and at some point, though, what is like,

455
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 2: it's not that you have to do that. It's a choice.

456
00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: It's a choice.

457
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: And maybe it's just because you want to continue to

458
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 1: keep up some sort of internet persona, or maybe it's

459
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: because you truly believe that you have no need to

460
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: spend any of this other money and that it's going

461
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: to allow you to be more generous in the future.

462
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: I guess it just depends on the individual. But you

463
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: came to the realization that, like, wait a second, spending

464
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: more money will make me happier.

465
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like I don't need to spend all of

466
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: my money. I just needed to spend more of my

467
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 3: money than I was.

468
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so not being able to spend money it's

469
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: not the typical American problem, as Matt alluded to in

470
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,719
Speaker 1: the beginning, But for folks listening to a money podcast,

471
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: I think at least some of them might resonate with

472
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: that reality more than your typical average American.

473
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: Right.

474
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: It seems ridiculous that not spending enough is a problem

475
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: for some people, But that is the truth of it, right,

476
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: and especially in the crowd that you run in, and

477
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 1: especially with what like I was saying, some of our

478
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: audience members do deal with. I've had to address that

479
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: in my own life when like my parents, you know,

480
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: declared bankruptcy when I was twelve, and that has changed

481
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: my whole trajectory with money, and I've had to learn

482
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,719
Speaker 1: that wait a second, that doesn't mean that I have

483
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: to be frugal to a fault. I can start to

484
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: incorporate mindful spending. I guess I'm curious, like when you're

485
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: talking to people in the Fire movement now, like, are

486
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: you able to kind of offer advice about opening up

487
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: the pocketbook in wise ways?

488
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:29,719
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I see like the shift happening in the

489
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 3: fire community. You know, the different kinds of fire. It's

490
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 3: not all or nothing anymore. It's like, oh, you're coast

491
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: five or you're doing slow Fi, and there's there is

492
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 3: more of a moderate tone coming into the Fire movement,

493
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: which is fantastic, But you know, you have some of

494
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: these people who for their entire adult lives. They've thought

495
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 3: about money in one way, and that way is we

496
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 3: need to save as much as possible so I don't

497
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: have X, Y or Z happen. And I remember I

498
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: was in the car on the way to a work

499
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 3: meeting that was like an hour away, and I was

500
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 3: listening to a podcast and it was the I Will

501
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 3: Teach You to Be Rich podcast with rough Mate Saiti,

502
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: where carl and Mindy were on it. And Carla Mindy

503
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 3: went on that podcast and said, we have four point

504
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: I think three million dollars and we have no idea

505
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 3: how to spend it. And if we don't figure out

506
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 3: how to spend it, you know, in twenty years or whatever,

507
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: we're going to have sixteen million dollars to spend and

508
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 3: we're going to be in an even bigger hole. And

509
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 3: it was just like a completely kind of ridiculous way

510
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 3: of thinking about money, like we're going to we already

511
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 3: have more money than we know how to spend right now,

512
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: and it's just going to keep getting worse unless we

513
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 3: figure it out. Now.

514
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, most people would hear that and they would just

515
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: want to like smack the person saying the same, because really,

516
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: that is not a real problem.

517
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: But it truly is a problem that a lot of

518
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: people face.

519
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: And I can totally identify with our friends Mindi and Carl,

520
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 1: who we both had on this show. They're they're they're

521
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: people that are like, they're awesome folks, fantastic Yeah, and

522
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: and and but that is a real problem to be

523
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,479
Speaker 1: grappled with because you can go so far down the

524
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: frugality investing smart saving rabbit hole that you forget that

525
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: wait a second, I can spend some of this, and

526
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: Carl's is doing better about that, like so much. We

527
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: spend good money on updated his car, but he also

528
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,719
Speaker 1: like brought a band in to uh for a birthday

529
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: party sort of thing, and like a helicopter.

530
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 3: Ride when they went to Hawaii.

531
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, like those are the kind of things we need

532
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: to push ourselves on when we've done a good job

533
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: saving and investing.

534
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

535
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 3: So, like I was yelling at the speakers at Mindy

536
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 3: and Carl on the podcast, I was like, I can

537
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: help you. I looked through this, I learned how to

538
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 3: do this. But like, how many people aren't willing to

539
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: go on Remeat's podcast and talk about that. How many

540
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 3: other people like don't even know that they are in

541
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 3: that problem exactly.

542
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean and again the vast majority of

543
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: folks are dealing with the exact opposite, but there are

544
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: there is a subset, And tell us about the some

545
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: of the different experiments that you ran when it came

546
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 2: to trying to figure out for you what would bring

547
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: you joy ultimately or I guess right like, like what

548
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: it is that's going to bring you happiness? Talk about

549
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 2: how you approach spending in different areas of your life.

550
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 3: Well, the best thing that I ever did for my

551
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 3: happiness was moving away from Washington, d C. And it's

552
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 3: only a little bit of shade on the DC area,

553
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 3: but I mean, it was so expensive and my salary

554
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 3: level did not change when I got there and was

555
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: the same as the Midwest, and it went nowhere near

556
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 3: as far as my salary did at the Midwest. So

557
00:27:54,160 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 3: I moved back home and instead of finding, you know,

558
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 3: the cheapest place that I could possibly you know, find

559
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: and save the most money on my housing one of

560
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 3: the big three expenses, I was like, what if I

561
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 3: just found an apartment that I liked and that was

562
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 3: in an area that had cool things going on around it.

563
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: So I got a job in Saint Louis and I

564
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 3: moved to Saint Louis and I rented this amazing apartment

565
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 3: and it cost me, uh was it eleven twenty five

566
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen, And that was the most that I'd

567
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 3: ever spent on housing. But I loved living there. I

568
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 3: was three blocks from a huge park, I was right

569
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 3: by the Missouri Botanical Garden. I wasn't far from work.

570
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 3: It had an extra bedroom. So when I got locked

571
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: into my apartment for you know, six months because of COVID,

572
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: at least I had a place to work remotely. So

573
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 3: you know, that came super handy. And it just was

574
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 3: one of those things where it was like, Okay, a

575
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 3: little change goes a long way, and I applied that

576
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: to tons of other areas.

577
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: Uh.

578
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 3: In my budget with electronics, you know, I no longer

579
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: try and eke out every year of life out of

580
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 3: my phone. I buy a new phone every year.

581
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: Are you going overboard? Yeah?

582
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: I can't sign off on this one. A little nervous,

583
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: no judgement.

584
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 3: Have you seeing the pictures of my cat?

585
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure you take the finest cat pics around. Now.

586
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 3: He's beautiful and he deserves the best camera equipment to

587
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: take the best photos of him. But you know, like

588
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 3: like I realized, okay, well, I could spend twelve hundred

589
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 3: dollars on a new phone every three years, let's say,

590
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: And because that's what I kept my phones for, is

591
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: you know, when I was super hard and defy, or

592
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: I could trade my phone in and by it immediately

593
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 3: when it comes out when it's a super discounted price

594
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: as an incentive, and then I pay four hundred dollars

595
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: a year, and then I have a brand new phone

596
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: every year.

597
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: That's right. Well, and specifically for you, I mean you

598
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: touched on this and you're writing too, but like electronics, gaming, consoles, computers,

599
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: for you, that was that's always been a priority. And

600
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: maybe you wouldn't have called it that back, you know,

601
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: back in the day. But like you talk about like

602
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: looking over a friend's shoulder on the bus and like

603
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: being yelled at by the bus driver because you want

604
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: to see what's going on. In case, like Pokemon.

605
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: He was playing Pokemon Red and I didn't have a

606
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 3: game boy. I couldn't play Pokemon, but I wanted to

607
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 3: because it was nineteen ninety eight and everybody was obsessed

608
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: with Pokemon.

609
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: Well, and food is another one of those areas you

610
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: write about that you've done some experimenting on. You went

611
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: from like a meager two hundred dollars a month budget

612
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: for food and now you're spending something like six or

613
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: seven hundred bucks a month. So it's it's not like

614
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: you're even just dipping your toes in. You're making kind

615
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: of dramatic choices in order to attempt to improve your

616
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: day to day life by spending more in intentional ways. Yeah,

617
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: I talk to us about the food experiment.

618
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when I first started out, I, like I said,

619
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 3: was spending two hundred dollars, and one hundred dollars of

620
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 3: that was going towards a CSA, and they gave me

621
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 3: eighteen pounds of meat a month, which doesn't seem like

622
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 3: I mean, that seems like a lot of meat, right,

623
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 3: but that's like eight Yeah, it's like eight ounces of

624
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: meat per meal. And I'm one person.

625
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: That's bare minimum for jol well, and.

626
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 3: I'm one person. I don't eat a ton, So that

627
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 3: worked out perfectly for me because you know, here I am,

628
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 3: I can't eat two dozen eggs in one month, Like

629
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 3: that's a lot of eggs for me, So it worked

630
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: out really well. And then I would spend there the

631
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 3: other one hundred dollars at the farmer's market or at

632
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 3: the grocery store, or on occasional meal out with friends

633
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: or coworkers or what have you. And that worked okay,

634
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: you know, like I had plenty of food to eat

635
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 3: and it was really good quality, and like I wasn't

636
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: like starting myself or anything, but I was, like you said,

637
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: you know, seeing that social impact, and especially like when dating,

638
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 3: you know, when you're going out on a new day,

639
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: it goes a long way for women to pick up

640
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: the bill every once in a while. And so when

641
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 3: I was like, no, I don't want to go out

642
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: when it was my time to pay, you know, it

643
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: was like, uh, that comes off a little wrong, right.

644
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: So I was like, what happens? You know, I did

645
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: a couple of months. I was like, what happens if

646
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: I just say yes to doing whatever I want. I

647
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: didn't bring my lunch every day to work. I went

648
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: out with friends and co workers for happy hours, and

649
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: like I had a great a great time and was like,

650
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: oh okay, but like I didn't even spend that much

651
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: more than I thought. And the framework for that one

652
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 3: kind of came from Brandon the Mad Scientist, actually, when

653
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: they were traveling and they were trying to keep it cheap,

654
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 3: and he's like, what if we just like didn't try

655
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: and keep it cheap and they didn't even spend that

656
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: much more money. And so I was like, I bet

657
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: the same is true for me, because I'm not one

658
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: of those people. And this is something that Remat says

659
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 3: all the time. He's like, you don't go to a

660
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: Michelin Star restaurant and then be like, well, I guess

661
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: this is the only food I can ever eat from

662
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: here on out. It's a once, you know, it's a

663
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 3: treat every once in a while, it's a splurge. And

664
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: so I had to trust myself that I am still

665
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 3: the practical, sensible person at heart that I am, even

666
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 3: without the lens of fire, and that I wasn't going

667
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: to go crazy and go out for steak dinners and

668
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: beef tatar and lobster I don't.

669
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: Even want, although occasionally that sounds wonderful.

670
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: It's great. I had beef, guitar and steak for a

671
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: five course meal on New Year's Eve this year, and

672
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 3: it was very nice, fantastic, very nice.

673
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it sounds like, yeah, you know yourself, you've

674
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: got the frugal gene and you still and you're not

675
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: going to go all the financial version of Quen's rum spring,

676
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, just because you are abandoning some of the

677
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: principles of fire, maybe that you had had it here

678
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: too for a long time. I'm curious, would you mind

679
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: sharing what your savings rate was kind of at your

680
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: height of Fire adherents and maybe kind of where you

681
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: are now because we're talking about all these ways that

682
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: you're expanding your lifestyle, you're spending more. So what's the

683
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: difference between kind of where your savings rate was from

684
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: percentage wise and kind of where it stands now.

685
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 3: I think my savings rate at its highest was like

686
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: seventy three or seventy four percent. Wow, I think I

687
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: only had.

688
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: For like kind of sort of hated your life there, Gwen.

689
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 3: Right, And I wasn't. I was bringing in eight thousand

690
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 3: dollars a year.

691
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 2: You know, Like there's a big difference if you're pulling

692
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: in seven fifty a year. Yeah, and you're saving eighty percent,

693
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 2: but that is not the case you're making yeah the

694
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: tenth third.

695
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't even know really what my savings

696
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 3: were to know, because I that's all shut in ten

697
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 3: percent into my four one k is. That's a match

698
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 3: plus a little bit extra. Then I just kind of

699
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: spend whatever's left because again, I don't really have to

700
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 3: save for retirement. I do have, I am a little bit,

701
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: but I don't have to. But I do save up

702
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 3: for things like I'll need a car in a couple

703
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 3: of years, so I'm starting a car fund.

704
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: Lost all intentionality with your finances, You're just prioritizing different

705
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: things and prioritizing your future retirement a whole lot less

706
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: because you've already done a lot.

707
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: Of hard work on that front. Yeah, unlike my fiance

708
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: and I bought a house in December, so use some

709
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 3: of my savings for that. So I, like, you know,

710
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: I'm not going like, oh, I have a penny left

711
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 3: over this month, excellent, I did such a great job,

712
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 3: you know. But I'm also not maxing out my four

713
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 3: oh one k am I roth Ira and my HSA

714
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: and trying to put money into a brokerage account either every.

715
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,479
Speaker 2: Possible account that's available to Yeah, So to answer Jill's question,

716
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 2: you're you're sitting aside at least ten percent plus.

717
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 3: I would say we're somewhere between like.

718
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 2: Fifteen and fifteen and twenty. Yeah, so okay, I would

719
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: love to hear your like, how are you then going

720
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: to balance like intentionally spending money as opposed to justifying

721
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: spending like mindless spending, right, Because like in any category

722
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 2: that we spend in our lives, I think you can

723
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: make an argument for, oh well this is going to

724
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: help out when it comes to networking. Well, oh this

725
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,959
Speaker 2: is something that I value. Now it's like, oh well

726
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 2: I want to be able to whatever what Like literally

727
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: any category we can self.

728
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: Justify, right, could become a slippery slope. But so like

729
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: at a certain.

730
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: Point that you have to draw a line, and so

731
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: how for you are you drawing that line? Like either

732
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: how are you deciding where that line is for you?

733
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: Or how are how are you like processing that?

734
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I use the concept of or meets money dials.

735
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 3: So he says, dial of the spending on the things

736
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 3: that you love and relentlessly cut everything else you don't

737
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: care about. And so there's still a lot of things

738
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: that I don't care about and don't really need to

739
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 3: spend money on. So like I just kind of just

740
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 3: let those things ride like I have a lot of

741
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 3: the furnishings for my house. You know, I'm not going

742
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 3: to redecorate my house every three years or whatever. Like

743
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 3: I've gotten to a pretty good spot with my furniture

744
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 3: and my furnishings, and we're merging households here soon we

745
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: move into the new house after we finish renovating, so like,

746
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: you know, we don't need to use this opportunity to

747
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: buy all new furniture and all new pillows and you know,

748
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 3: artwork and whatever, like we can we can keep what

749
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 3: we've got in the new place. It doesn't have to

750
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 3: be like on the cover of Style magazine or whatever.

751
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 3: So you know, there there are things that I care

752
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 3: about and have like yes, ready to go for things

753
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 3: Like it was who was the best? So my niece

754
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 3: messaged me on Facebook and she was nine years old

755
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: and she goes, Anti, Gwen, guess what, And I was

756
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 3: like what. She goes, I saved up enough money to

757
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: go to Harry Potter World, And I was like, wow,

758
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 3: that's so awesome. I'm so proud of you. And she's like,

759
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 3: will you go with me? And I was like, heck, yeah,

760
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: I want to reward that fiscal responsibility at such a

761
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 3: cold age, and she's like, great, I'll go tell mom.

762
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 3: And I was like, wait a minute, what, Oh, And

763
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: my sister was like, I'm going to Universal.

764
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: She was like Harry Potter. Yeah.

765
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: She was like, You're not going to go to Universal

766
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 3: Studios with my daughter without me, And I was like,

767
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 3: that's fair. So my niece contributed what she had saved

768
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 3: up for her ticket, and then the Bank of Anti

769
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: Gwen paid for flights and hotels and food and souvenirs

770
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: and stuff while we're there, And like, I never would

771
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: have done that a couple of years ago. Yeah, but

772
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 3: we stayed on premises, We ate lunch at the parks, like,

773
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 3: we got pizza for the meals at the hotel. Like

774
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 3: it was just, Hey, we want to have a really

775
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: great time and have this amazing memory and this experience

776
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: with the people I care the most about. Yeah, and

777
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: I don't. It didn't really matter what it costs, because

778
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 3: it couldn't. It didn't cost that much.

779
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: Well, you can't discount the relational factors. And in particular

780
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: for you, like so much of why I think you

781
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: were able to say yes to that was because of

782
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 2: the fact that you had worked so hard early on,

783
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: and we talked about frontloading the sacrifice, and so we've

784
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 2: got more questions to get to and we're going to

785
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: talk about how, in fact the Fire movement there is

786
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 2: some good to it, but maybe you just need to

787
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: take a more nuanced approach. We'll get to that and

788
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: more right after this our wall backwards.

789
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: So talking with Gwen Urse about why she left the

790
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: Fire Movement, and Gwen, I'm curious if we were still

791
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: manning the Fire movement right now, which means the strongest

792
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 1: potential case right for what makes the Fire movement great?

793
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: How would you state it? What would you say to

794
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: someone who's like Fire, curious about maybe the finer points

795
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: and what makes signing up for the Fire movement and

796
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: having such a high savings rate and you know, investing

797
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: for your future significantly early on in your career, what

798
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: makes that such a smart move?

799
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 3: I think it's a lot like any other worthwhile endeavor.

800
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 3: Putting a little bit of effort early on goes a

801
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 3: long way down the road. And when you're young, you're

802
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: used to living simple with roommates and you're driving a

803
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 3: crappy car and none of your friends have any money anyway,

804
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: So if you extend that just for a couple of

805
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: years and you don't start to really inflate your life style,

806
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 3: then you're going to be so much better off down

807
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 3: the road.

808
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just about delaying some of that consumption just

809
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 2: a little bit longer. Then it provides the ability for

810
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 2: you to take that money and stick it into investments

811
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 2: and instead of seeing the value of all of those

812
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 2: assets decline, yeah, you get to see that grow.

813
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: I love the way doctor Jim Dolly phrases it from

814
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: the white coat investor. He says to doctors to continue

815
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: living like a resident. Right, So it's like, hey, you

816
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: just got at least for a few years to kind

817
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: of delay some of those up lifestyle upgrades. You've been

818
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: in school, you've been a resident. It's been a long

819
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: time coming, and you're like looking forward to that six

820
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: figure paycheck, that six figure annual salary. But if you

821
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: can just hold off on the upgrades for a little

822
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: bit longer, it's going to lead to significant improvements, being

823
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 1: able to pay it on that debt, increase your net

824
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: worth as you're investing, and it's going to lead to

825
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: just a whole lot more future lifestyle choices open up

826
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: to you when you delay some of that consumption.

827
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not saying that you have to take

828
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 3: it as hard as I do, and only you know,

829
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: spend two hundred dollars and get a get a triplex

830
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 3: and disrepair and rent it out and go like that hard.

831
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 3: But you know, even just setting your four oh one

832
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 3: k match to get the whole match and then going

833
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: maybe an extra ten percent, like if you haven't, if

834
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 3: you haven't set your lifestyle in stone it is at

835
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: that point, then it is super easy to just make

836
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 3: that your normal. But like, you know, I talk to

837
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 3: some people. I'm like, yeah, I'm only saven ten percent,

838
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 3: and they're like only ten percent. I'm only managing to

839
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 3: save eight. But they made like different choices than I did. Right,

840
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: They have kids, They have a you know, they have

841
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 3: a house, and they have all these things that are

842
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 3: demands in your money that you might not have at

843
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 3: such an early age.

844
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I feel like like going from one

845
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 2: extreme to the other. Like I think oftentimes for folks

846
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: who are going too hard into fire, it's like there

847
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: almost seems to be like an obsession with the numbers

848
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: as opposed to looking at all else that life offers.

849
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,479
Speaker 2: And so because I think for a lot of folks,

850
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 2: that's what makes it so difficult to spend some of

851
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: that money is because nothing is really appealing as seeking

852
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 2: that independence, that freedom, Nothing is as important as seeing

853
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 2: their net worth grow. Like on one hand, like I

854
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 2: almost feel like it's as simple as just like getting

855
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: like you said, like getting a hobby, like getting a life,

856
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: as opposed to being overly focused on the numbers, and

857
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: like where the numbers become the goal in and of themselves,

858
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: as opposed to allowing them to get you to arrive

859
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 2: to where you want to be so that you can

860
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: in fact live life. It sort of sounds like that

861
00:43:59,440 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 2: that's what you went.

862
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, you know, there's tons of different values to

863
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 3: look at your life through, and frugality is one. But

864
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 3: what if you value What if you looked at your

865
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 3: life through health lens and you're like, I want to

866
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 3: place my health first, your spending is going to change.

867
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 3: You know. It's like, oh, what if I want to travel,

868
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 3: you know, and expand my horizons, then your spending will

869
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 3: look different, you know. So there's all these priorities that

870
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: you can place on your spending before the cost.

871
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: It's almost like if the headline fire number is the

872
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: end all, be all, the goal. And that's the other

873
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: thing too. We've we've now gotten to the point in

874
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: the Fire movement where we've seen some of the people,

875
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: some of the leaders in the movement hit that number,

876
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: and most of them have said that after they hit

877
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: that number, it was a big letdown, Yeah, because they

878
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: weren't necessarily looking to achieve a specific lifestyle that number

879
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: would afford. Because, like Matt was saying, it was so

880
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: numbers focused, maybe they missed out on something like bigger

881
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: than the number, something that goes beyond it. And the

882
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: truth is, you can we talk Matt and I talk

883
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: about this all the time. It's like there's different stages

884
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 1: of financial independence and how if it's this like all

885
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: or nothing mentality, you're missing out on so much of

886
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: the ability kind of like you're alluding to Gwen with

887
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: like paying for that trip to Florida for your loved ones.

888
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: That's the kind of financial independence you can reap today

889
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: before you're fully financially independent. That really makes life exciting

890
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: and fun in the here and now while you're still

891
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: trying to save and achieve ultimate financial independence too.

892
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 3: Yep, it's really true.

893
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: All right, well, Gwen, seriously, thank you so much for

894
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: joining us today on the show talking about your experience.

895
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: And I love that we're not throwing the baby out

896
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: with the bathwater, but we are talking about making significant

897
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: changes and not oh we're doing it, not going too

898
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: hard in one direction. Where where can our listeners work

899
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: and how to money listeners find out more about you

900
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: and what you're up to these days.

901
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, they can go to my blog at fireymillennials dot

902
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: com and I'm on pretty much any form of social

903
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 3: media at fiery Millennial or fiery millenniables depending on the

904
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: character limit.

905
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 2: Looking at you. Very cool. We'll make sure to link

906
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 2: to a lot of those. Gwenn, thank you so much

907
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: for joining us today on the podcast.

908
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me.

909
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,919
Speaker 1: All Right, Matt, that was a good conversation with a friend, Gwen.

910
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: Been a minute since we've chatted with her, right, And

911
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: I always you don't want you didn't make it a

912
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: fincn this past year and politics and call it flip flopping,

913
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: but I love it when people have the ability to

914
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: change their mind like and they do it and then

915
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: they're willing to talk about what led to that.

916
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: Lifestyle change because it's.

917
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: Life is dynamic and we're always changing and their shades

918
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: of gray, and you know what, we should all be

919
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: willing to change our mind as new information comes to light.

920
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: As the dude would say in the Big Labowski. So, yeah,

921
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: what was your big takeaway.

922
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: From this conversation? I wrote one thing. I think only

923
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: one thing down during the conversation because I knew this

924
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: is gonna be my big takeaway. And she said that

925
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: she was trying to be someone that she wasn't. This

926
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: was when she was talking about getting the triplex and

927
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: she wanted to do the whole you know, the real

928
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: estate thing. And I think that is such wisdom coming

929
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 2: from Gwyn. I think it's something that we can all take,

930
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: not only in the ways that we pursue wealth. So

931
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 2: in this case, she was talking about that from a

932
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: growing her wealth right Like she was like, Oh, this

933
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 2: is another way that I can slight hustle. This is

934
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 2: something that a lot of folks are doing. I hear

935
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 2: a lot of folks talking about it. It sounds like it's

936
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 2: a good thing for me to consider. But for her,

937
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: she knew It's almost unlike deep down she kind of

938
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 2: knew that This wasn't gonna work work out for her,

939
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 2: but she did it anyway.

940
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: I think it almost for her probably felt like a

941
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 1: necessary stepping stone on the fire path.

942
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: It's like, is a parbody else who fires doing it

943
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 2: part of the fire persona exactly?

944
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: And that's why you and I, by the way, you

945
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: and I are real estate in Mesters. We talk about it,

946
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, semi regularly on the show, but we

947
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: also don't overhype it. We don't ever sell it because

948
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people in the real estate space

949
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: and it's all about, like, you gotta do it, this

950
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: is your path to riches, And the truth is it's

951
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: a heck of a lot of work to do it

952
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 1: well takes.

953
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: We've always talked about that it is not purely passive income.

954
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: There's certainly a part time job element to that. But

955
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 2: she was talking about that from a wealth generation or

956
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: income generating standpoint. But I think the same can also

957
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: be applied to how does that we choose to spend

958
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: our money, making sure that we are staying true to

959
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: ourselves and spending our money in the ways that we

960
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: want to spend our money, not what it is that

961
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: either the world says, or you're super frugal fire Love

962
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 2: and buddy what he says, like, figure out what it

963
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: is for you, for you and your family, the things

964
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 2: that are going to be a priority for you.

965
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: It's almost like in the fire movement, like now that

966
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: Tesla is the vehicle of choice or something like that,

967
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: and that's fine, but like do what you want to do,

968
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: drive what you want to drive, like live live the

969
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: life you want to live, and that takes so much

970
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: proactive intentionality. Yeah, that's why. And we'll link to this

971
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: in the show notes. We always talk about the how

972
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: to Money Money Mission statement, where you could it's like

973
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: thirty minutes ask yourself some of these questions.

974
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: It's still a great time to do that with it

975
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 2: being still towards the beginning of the year.

976
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that can be helpful for folks

977
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: who are trying to figure out, well, I don't know,

978
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: what is it that I want to intentionally spend on

979
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: while I cut back on other things?

980
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: What is my craft beer equivalent?

981
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 3: Yeah?

982
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 2: For you, what was your big takeaway it?

983
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: So I don't know, Like when you were talking about

984
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: hobbies that really resonated with me, and so I think

985
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: part of the reason maybe that we work so much

986
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,720
Speaker 1: in the United States of America is because we haven't

987
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: found awesome other ways to proactively spend our time. And

988
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: hobbies are just something.

989
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 2: Which makes sense because when you go to work and

990
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 2: you're spending at least eight hours every single day, you

991
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 2: get really good at that thing, and it's nice to

992
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: be good as something starts to fully encompass your life. Yeah,

993
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 2: and so I think you know, we talked about this

994
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,879
Speaker 2: regularly too. The core pursuits that our friend Wes Moss

995
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 2: talks about. The happiest retirees have more core pursuits. They

996
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 2: have more essentially hobbies on steroids that they're into, and

997
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: those don't develop overnight. You have to be developing those

998
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 2: through the years while you're working, which probably means working less,

999
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 2: which might mean making a little bit less, which might

1000
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 2: mean that you have to be like frugal in some

1001
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: really savvy in intelligent ways. But I think those hobbies

1002
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 2: add so much zest to your life. And if you're

1003
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: not thinking about those and engaging in those on the

1004
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 2: rig in the here and now, you're not going to

1005
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 2: turn them up to eleven once you finally do hit

1006
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 2: the retirement age. So it's relationship balance. Yeah, yeah, same

1007
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: thing with the relationship, same thing with when it comes

1008
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: to your personal health. These aren't things that you can say,

1009
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 2: oh well, once I retire, oh in a decade, once

1010
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 2: I get whatever level position that you're you know that

1011
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 2: you've got your sights set on By.

1012
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: That time, your rudder has shifted ever so slightly, and

1013
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 1: you've drifted so far or so far.

1014
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, often left field, mixing our metaphors over here.

1015
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, So figure out what hobbies matter to you

1016
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: and then I don't know, partaking them regularly, whether it's

1017
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 1: pick aball, hiking, nerdy board games, uh, disc golf, figure

1018
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: out those. They don't have to be expensive either, Like

1019
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: you don't have to buy four thousand dollars sewing machine,

1020
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: although you can, right, But like it's so much of

1021
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: it is is up to you, and it's about how

1022
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:56,959
Speaker 1: you want to spend your time. But just make sure

1023
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: you're spending your time intentionally the way you want to

1024
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: spend it.

1025
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 2: That's right, all right. Our beer that we enjoyed it

1026
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 2: during this episode, Buddy, is a wholesome wave Georgia on

1027
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: my mind. I guess that's what the the beer is called.

1028
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 2: This is a collaboration with Wholesome Wave Georgia. So they

1029
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: make fresh and nonprofit right, yeah, fresh, healthy, locally grown produce,

1030
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 2: affordable and available to all Georgians. But this was a

1031
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: pale ale by Piedmont Brewery. What we were thoughts on

1032
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 2: this one, buddy? All right?

1033
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: So I love a good pale ale with like hot

1034
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: significant hot forwardness.

1035
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: This fit that bill. Yeah, this is a fantastic beer.

1036
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: Sometimes the double IPAs can be a little too intense

1037
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: for me, although I like them. But this was not

1038
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: too heavy, had stone fruit, tropical.

1039
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 2: Note vibes, and it was super juicy.

1040
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, juicy, but not overwhelming from a palette fatigue standpoint.

1041
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: So this is Yeah, I really enjoyed it. A nice

1042
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: hazy pale. Another great one from Piedmont Brewery. But that's

1043
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: gonna be it for this episode.

1044
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 2: Buddy. We'll make sure to link to Gwen's her site

1045
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: where it is he can learn more about her up

1046
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 2: in our show notes at how to money dot com.

1047
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, that's gonna do it until next time.

1048
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.